Systems Leadership Summit for OD/HR
leaders and practitioners
Tuesday 10 February 2015
Summary Notes
1) Experience / Expectations / Questions for today
Feedback

How to deal with tension between complexity / collaboration and accountability?

How do we engage the HR/OD community to move in a different way?

Does a systems leadership approach mean we need to train and recruit differently?

What about the meta-system (e.g. capitalism) – are we social change agents? Power lies
with communities

What’s the appetite for a shared purpose – citizens – best possible experience of health
and social care?

Is it more about followership?

How do we get momentum for change – get councillor buy in.

What’s the appetite for systems leadership?

How do we help people focus on the issue rather than their position in an organisation or
hierarchy?

How do we train/develop people to see the need for the skills, mindsets and behaviours
needed in systems leadership (yellow circle?)

What’s our role in this?

How do we extend systems leadership into communities?

How might we build support for this- with SMT?

How do we learn from what we are already doing?
2) Input on systems leadership, learning from local Vision pilots and NHS
Pioneers, stories from the field/Local Vision/NHS Pioneers (Debbie Sorkin,
Leadership Centre, Sue Goss, Liz Goold, OPM) – see slides add link
3)Sharing of examples of systems leadership development and experience
in the room
i) National level
Leadership for Change at Virtual Staff College (Liz Goold, OPM and Joanne Hay from
NSPCC) - national programme for leaders across public services, Place teams made up of senior
leaders from childrens services, adult social care, CCGS, Third Sector with emphasis on
application and change on system leadership challenges in places with support. Third cohort
starting in June- contact Mark Dalton mark.dalton@virtualstaffcollege.co.uk
Skills for Systems Leadership, Public Health England (Chris Lawrence-Pietroni, Leading
Communities/Leadership Centre) National systems leadership programme for public health
leaders through Public Health England. Has a particular emphasis on public narrative as key
systems leadership skill and working with elected members as part of local government
ii) Regional level:
Norfolk Commissioning Academy (Kerry Furness, Norfolk County Council) using systems
leadership principles to support better commissioning, as well as the way this programme was
designed, positioned and run
iii) In-house systems leadership programme
Calderdale council- series of Masterclasses and action learning sets around systems
leadership challenges. (Sue Goss, OPM) This involves a series of Masterclasses for all senior
managers, with follow-up action learning groups working on ‘safe-fail’ experiments facilitated by
internal facilitators, as well as working with the Extended Leadership Team and how they can
model and offer an enabling environment. Sue also shared examples from her system enabler
work (see slides)
iv) Working at Community level
Delivering Differently (Rob Francis, OPM)
This is an initiative sponsored by the Cabinet Office that OPM is working on in Devon. It seeks to
apply systems leadership principles at local level by helping town councils to work with local
organisations and residents in new ways, developing new forms of community involvement
through networks, Ideas Farms/experiments rather than hierarchies. This in turn is generating
challenge and learning about the central council’s norms, models and approaches to . As a direct
result of this work, local people have worked with the town council to produce a plan for a new
multi-use, community-led hub building in the town.
v) NHS Pioneers (Debbie Sorkin- Leadership Centre)
There are now 25 health and social care integration Pioneers: areas around the country that are
working together to implement, and promote, new ways of joining up health and care. The aim in
all the areas is to make health and social care services work together to provide better support at
home and earlier treatment in the community, to prevent people needing emergency or hospital
care where this is preventable.
Notable examples of progress in Pioneer sites include:
LB Islington: ‘Test and learn’ sites focused around primary care; mapping of workforce
development needs; integrated community ageing team; integrated psychiatric liaison and
assessment team; and locality navigators.
Leeds: Developing integrated neighbourhood teams across the city, working from shared data
sources and a shared ‘Leeds pound’.
London WELC Care Collaborative: Developed provider collaboratives to co-ordinate services
and use single budget for health and care across a population, including creating new workforce
roles.
vi) Examples shared in the room
Example: Suffolk – 2 tier – 7 DC’s, 3 CCG’s “where do you put your energy?” In same
geography we are in very different places – what implications does this have for the HR/ OD
system? How do we work differently together?
Example: Wiltshire – integrated teams wrapped around the GP practice – community nurses –
social workers – volunteer sector. 20 teams / hubs all moving at a different pace – some moving
faster – so sharing through a multi-disciplinary process – “Who are we dealing with” How might
front line staff work/behave differently – to prevent health problems with communities – how do
we use them? Link up with health prevention?
4) Clustering of Key themes/questions arising from conversations, input and
examples shared
i.
Working with different paradigms/mindsets – cultural implications

What happens when system leadership thinking – emergent, distributed, complex – hits
up against more structured / conventional expectations of OD?

Sorting out internal silos before working cross agency?

How do we handle the cultural implications that we would have a role in?
ii.
iii.

Government led culture of inspection and “norms” versus the risk associated with system
leadership and messy change

Time as a cycle – or end point? As an arrow? What do we need to learn from other ways
of looking at the world?

How would you run your organisation if you saw everyone as a volunteer?

What are the cultural implications of this across different organisations and what does this
mean for our role for our role?

Terms and conditions- how will this be overcome? Shifting mindsets needs to be reflected
in tangibles eg salary, role vs value of contribution

How do you help people schooled and promoted through the ‘blue box’ (ordinary
management) to want the uncertainty and riskiness of the yellow circle (systems
leadership)?

Managing the interfaces – there maybe excellence within organisations but not at the
cross-area points

Considering different ways of working – if old ways don’t work then what are the
development interventions that support people – how do we support the bigger ‘why’?

How might communities enable us?
Working with senior leadership

How do you ‘sell’ SL to senior management within an organisation? And how to get the
whole workforce on board?

How do you start to make the change? Working with senior leadership and turn it into
reality from will and desire.

You may have CE ‘buy-in’ and interesting work going on at local level but how to handle
the need for control in the middle- can get stuck there?

How might we create the conditions at senior levels – have the crucial conversation – is
that our role?
Meta level – the Why- what is the purpose of all of this?

Is effecting social good the shared goal? What does it mean in practice – redistribution of
power / behaviour change? Evolution of the political dimension e.g. trusts, councillors.

What about the meta system of capitalism?

Need to be aware of scale – how big is the system? What is our time scale?

How might we see Systems leadership as part of creating a movement.

It points to larger wider social questions: language, democracy, who enables who?

Making sure we keep the needs of the client, resident, citizen, patient as central to all of
this and building out from that (what if, conflicting demands?)
iv.
Implications for OD / HR role, skills and behaviours

What shift do I need to make in my own model of OD / HR?

Need to looks at skills base in HR / OD as they can operate in different ways, how to
invest in their skill base – to have the tools and the confidence to use them

What are the implications for us as an OD / HR system?

Issues i.e. identity and self-belief as OD practitioners– what do I need to up my OD game
in

Creating business case for this– can we afford to do this- and can we afford not to? 
having a narrative is key.

What are innovative ways to tell the story of the impact we are creating and create a
reason for our added value? Need to find innovative ways of developing our own
narrative.

How might this help to have a more proactive/influencial space at top table?

How do we use our understanding of culture change to support a systems leadership
perspective?

How might the knitting together of connections and perspectives and building networks
and relationships be recognised and valued- ‘bricolage role’- added value we can bring

HR/OD upping our game on skills set around enablers/facilitators of difficult conversations

How do we use our time differently – hold people accountable in different ways – not
waste time in meetings (‘meeting is not the match’)

Links needed between OD and transformation leads- both in the business of change and
working across systems
v.
Politicians

What about the political dimension? How might councillors respond/ engage?

Politics can get in the way

How to create environment for listening and learning (to build this)?

How do we involve politicians in what we do? In this approach?
vi) Building capacity in systems leadership

How well do we understand what’s already happening in our organisation?

What about looking more at creating followership, as well as leadership?

Transformation leads needs to be joined in. They are part of system too

Does a systems leadership approach mean that we need to train / recruit for different
sorts of skills in certain roles?

What is the role of leadership programmes – are they fit 4 purpose given the need for
systems leadership?

Are women better at enabling systems leaders? Handling overlay of generational changes

How do you get a critical mass of people within an organisation to share a desire /
willingness to practise systems leadership?

How can you build capability across the organisation?

How might I turn this into something that will make a difference in my world?

How to build a momentum for change
5. Deepening and Actions – Open space feedback and reflections
Group 1 – What is out there already? (mapping exercise) add mapping photo here,
rosie

Value of networks and particularly in regions

Need for Virtual spaces – OD offers opportunity to link across public sector (and other
sectors

More research needed? ‘Art of change making’ workbook from Leadership Centreoffering theoretical underpinnings as well as practical examples. Will be available in next
few months. Also research done by Virtual Staff College (see Exceptional Leadership in
Exceptional Times). Evaluation also commissioned by Leadership Centre on learning from
Local Vision pilots- will be available in the summer.

LinkedIn group to be set up for participants/OD and HR practitioners interested in systems
leadership- everyone join!

Need to find out whats going on in our own organisations
Group 2- Role of politicians/democracy in systems leadership – for OD

Focus on locality/place helps with this (and harnesses energy of the community)

Mix politicians up with other community leaders- range of ‘ordinary’ people to help with
engagement
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Create a shared story  recognise everyone’s values beneath the politics

The objective has to matter more than political position

Involve politicians from start and all the way through
Group 3 – How to use a systems leadership approach in making links with health
promotion and health workers

Importance of putting power back to client

Develop Practical tools and circles of support
Group 4 – Creating a Narrative for OD/HR practitioners

Can promote wider accountability – be honest re. outcomes

‘Go where energy is’ – this is a useful frame re. conflict resolution – promote innovation

Think through our own social and professional identity as OD practitioners- and our value
add given this approach

Pay attention to language and use leess jargon

Need to develop our own narrative and see ourselves central to it
Group 5 – Engaging people in systems leadership from an OD/HR people’s
persepective.

Don’t try and do it top down or organisation wide all at once – go where someone has a
problem where it might help to move things forward

Culture/conditions/attitudes need to be right to allow a different approach– whats our role
in supporting that

Ensure values and behaviours and ‘simple rules’ support a more systems leadership
focus

Probably best not to give it a label – just approach the work/problem using the principles

Find some energy or friendly faces and just have a go

Break away from the usual suspects - cross slice working bringing the right skills together
(as opposed to just those in the roles).

Upskill existing OD/HR business partners in key skills to facilitate systems leadership
activity and offer those services more.
6. What next?

Need to start a community of practice to develop our system leadership
skills/practice/support

Connecting at a regional level  across public sector and 3rd sector and European OD
network – internationally, Employers organisations- what about private sector?

Need to make stronger links between PPMA and health equivalent (HPMA)

NHS leadership academy regional networks –Get out and know your system

4th March OD regional conference  Catherine Loftus- systems leadership on the agenda

East of England PPMA network – make links with Local Vision and health and wellbeing –
go where energy is at regional level Panel of speakers/facilitators available as resource
for follow-up

Go where energy is- Like starting a diet-need to just get on and do it!

Give feedback on draft systems leadership paper by Sue Goss ‘A view from the Bridge’by end of the month! (link attached)
7. Individual actions / commitments – see tree photo (insert photo, rosie)

Connect with colleagues in my organisation who are involved in systems leadership.

Expand toolkit

Review and change my approach to meetings and seek to influence change to directorate
meetings

Stop planning for the meeting, plan for real life and have the conversations.

Get involved; join the network; read more broadly

Find a way to be involved / observe a systems leadership project in practice / for real.

Get this on our London council OD network (March 2015)

To share VSC resources around S.L more widely

To engage with PPMA / WM Employers to see it – we can focus on this

Join Leadership Development Programmes and share learning today with Head of OD.

push our regional OD / transformation network at EELGA. 2 – Continue to build
relationships.

Join OD network and read the emerging reports and case studies about different ways of
working using systems leadership

Invite one or more of the presenting team to our next regional OD community event
(Catherine Loftus). 2 – Share cultures of our systems leadership day with OD colleagues
attending today

Reflect; link with system leadership team; link with NHS leadership academy

Link up with other people in East of England

Challenge myself to explore my own network

Become part of an OD community

Write up and disseminate more systems leadership stories

Bring our local education system together

Engage internally with potential system leadership champions and share the outcomes of
this event to develop a way forward

Share success

Share my learning / ideas (and enthusiasm!) within my organisation. Then take it from
there…

Weave and influence system leadership concept / philosophy through HR strategy
Liz Goold, OPM
February, 2015