2015 Minutes - National Conference on ​Ministry to the Armed Forces

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2015 MINUTES
NCMAF ANNUAL CONFERENCE
Hilton Mark Center Hotel, Alexandria, Virginia
13 and 14 January 2015
“Serving Those Who Serve: A Renewed Vision for a Time of Change”
Tuesday, 13 January
DEVOTIONAL (Chaplain (BG) Carl Fisher, USAR)
Excerpts were read from the book of Daniel and Nebuchadnezzar’s declarations
acknowledging God. Daniel lived in a time of great cultural and political changes.
Daniel quickly adapted, yet remained true to his faith. He exhibited all the traits of a
great chaplain. He withstood several tests of his faith and courageously lived and
prophetically spoke truth. Globalization is here to stay. Chaplains today work between
the extremes. They are modern-day Daniels to bring healing and hope. Daniels must
do four things every day (four plus two):
1. Begin the day with prayer.
2. Read Scripture.
3. Do your physical training.
4. Follow through on your mission.
Be careful about being sad, mad, and had! Daniel survived by a sense of accountability
(skin in the game) and a humble spirit of confession.
CALL TO ORDER and INTRODUCTIONS – Keith Travis
The Chair spoke of his joy attending this annual conference and meeting “battle
buddies”.
NEW ENDORSERS
Bruce Fener
Larry Greenslit
Craig Muhler
RELIGIOUS BODY
United Methodist Endorsing Agency
Presbyterian Council for Chaplains and Military
Lutheran Church – Missouri synod
NEW ASSOCIATE ENDORSERS
RELIGIOUS BODY
Kristy Moeller
American Baptist Church, USA
Robert Grant
Anglican Mission in the Americas
:
EXHIBITORS – HOSTING TABLES IN LOBBY OUTSIDE MAGNOLIA ROOM
ATTENDANT(S)
Arthur Pace and
David Keller
?
ORGANIZATION
American Bible Society
Chaplain Alliance for Religious Liberty
Paul W. Dodd and
Thomas Carpenter
Jim Critchlow
Kenneth Sampson
David Becker
Jason Torpy
Jim Fisher
Blaise Brankatelli
William “Chip” Aldridge
Military Recruiters
The Forum on the Military Chaplaincy
Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary
Guideposts Military Outreach
Jewish Friends of the American Armed Forces
Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers
Operation Heal Our Patriots
Trinity International University
Wesley Theological Seminary
U.S. Air Force and Navy
If we missed anyone and if there are any corrections, please contact the new NCMAF Secretary, Derek
L.S. Jones at bishopjones@anglicanchaplains.org for updating and / or correction.
ANNOUNCEMENTS
Parking passes were made available from Clara Everhart, Executive Assistant, for those
who drove to the hotel.
VISION STATEMENTS (Jack Lea)
The Executive Director (ED), “Dad in Plaid”, related his experiences taking over the role.
A number of transition issues have occurred around mixup in phone calls with the
former and current ED named “Jack”, etc. The Office staff was introduced: Ken Bush,
Training and Research (TR); and Clara Everhart, Executive Assistant (EA).
ED activities and projects:
1. Retaining of Counselor Jim Autry as a corporate attorney who donated ($40K) pro
bono of professional legal work in drafting by-laws.
2. Attended Congressional meetings.
3. Made visits to all three Service Chiefs of Chaplains.
4. Secured CFC standing for 2015.
5. Coordinated EXCOM meetings and business.
ED’s vision for NCMAF’s future:
1. Increase our visibility, participation and impact.
2. Partner with the Elizabeth Dole Foundation.
3. Raise funds and increase the donor base.
4. Emphasize our reliance upon one another.
5. Improve our governance and processes.
NCMAF / ECVAC are unique. “We hold these truths to be self-evident…” God is the
source of freedoms, not government.
ATTORNEY’S PRESENTATION ON BY-LAWS (Jim Autry)
Even though members are concerned with spirit, NCMAF must operate within the letter
of the law. NCMAF documents require updating to fully comply with public law and
practices. The relationship between ECVAC and NCMAF also needed examination and
objective clarity. To better enable the mission of both “bones are needed for the body.”
NCMAF is a corporation which requires two types of documents: articles of
incorporation (filed with the State of Virginia) that breathes life into an organization, and
by-laws, the rules and regulations an organization uses to transact its daily business.
The basic idea of the by-laws is that NCMAF is “owned” by the members. The EXCOM
cannot set policy. Policy is determined by the plenary. A number of policy decisions
will need to be made in the near future. ECVAC does not have legal articles of
incorporation; it is a subset of its parent NCMAF. That relationship needs defined.
Question: What would you want the voting members to know?
Answer: The challenge of obtaining an exemption letter for 501c(3)s has become more
difficult. Current NCMAF documents do not meet requirements. Without standing,
third party corporations cannot make donations.
The draft by-laws were sent out to members with a deadline of 28 February 2015 for
comments and observations to be forwarded to the ED office staff.
ENSURING HIGH STANDARDS SETTING THE STAGE (Derek Jones, Klon Kitchen
and Sarah Lammert)
Considering the wide range of theological members working together, NCMAF is truly a
unique miracle. NCMAF is theologically diverse, but united in the purpose of caring for
all who serve in uniform. An objection was raised about noting any negative issues with
problem chaplains. Transparency between endorsers enables healthy relationships
with one another, chaplains, the military service Chiefs of Chaplains and commanders.
The Endorser’s Code of Ethics was read together and reaffirmed by each individual
endorser signing a copy. Requests were made for additional copies.
INFLUENCING OUR RELIGIOUS BODIES (Steve Schwab)
The Elizabeth Dole Foundation’s theme is “caring for those who cared for us.” Senators
Dole spend each Saturday at the World War II Memorial greeting veterans. Less than
one percent of the population are defending the nation. Yet, over one million service
members have been wounded in the Global War on Terrorism. Recognizing the great
need and the burden on care-givers, the Foundation was formed in 2012 to support
care-givers. The RAND Corporation was engaged to conduct research into caring for
wounded warriors. Based on evidence-based research that 5.5M persons are giving
care (1.1M for post 9/11 veterans), the Foundation is building a coalition of groups and
organizations that provide some form of care and support for these unsung people.
Much of the Foundation community is virtual. The Foundation also provides awareness,
legal help and resources. The Coalition receives strong support from the White House,
Congress and other partners.
Research reveals many of the care-givers are young adult spouses who must also work
as the primary family provider. Some companies such as La Quinta provide work-athome employment. Nearly two-thirds of these spouses do not have any medical
insurance and often do not qualify for special benefits. Care-givers turn to faith
communities more than any other outlet for support. Clergy are the first place caregivers turn to for advice.
Seven Impact Councils:
1. Interfaith action and ministry.
2. Community support at home like the American Red Cross.
3. Education and training – U.S. Chamber of Commerce, Easter Seals, etc.
4. Employment and workplace support.
5. Financial and legal issues.
6. Mental and physical health. Secondary PTSD sometimes occurs among care-givers.
7. Respite care is hard to measure, but needed.
The Foundation seeks NCMAF members to raise awareness in our churches and to
share ministries, programs and sermons that will help within faith communities. An
observation was made that only 25K care-givers are being paid by the government to
provide care. They are paid only $35K annually, which saves the government over
$13.7B in costs. What will care look like when parents are unable to provide the care?
Question: Did any of the research study support for Native Americans?
Answer: The study has a section on demographics.
Endorsers from a number of faith groups (Lutherans, Episcopals, Plymouth Brethren,
Advent Christians, Seventh-day Adventists and others) volunteered information about
services they provide for wounded warriors and veterans.
LUNCH
Operation Heal Our Patriots: Samaritan’s Purse (CAPT Jim Fisher, CHC, USN
Retired)
“Samaritan’s Purse” gives relief to victims of disaster and trauma, especially married
couples who face challenges due to military service. Ten couples per week for fifteen
weeks are taken to a lodge in Alaska for a free marriage education retreat. Application
can be made on the website www.samaritanspurse.org and going to “Operation Heal
Our Patriots” (OHOP). The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association sponsors the ministry
event as appreciation to the military, which offers a shared experience between
husband and wife, provides tools for marriage enhancement, reinforces and/or
introduces a relationship with God, creates community and links them to a local church
or synagogue. How are couples selected? Applicants must have been injured since
9/11. The focus is on junior enlisted, mostly Army and Marine. The severity of injury
and expressed marital need are also factors. Eighty percent of the attendees have
never been on a marriage retreat. Seventy percent never received pre-marital
counseling. A curriculum in marriage resiliency is offered. The retreat is followed with
after-care provisions of regional retreats, follow-up visitation, pastoral counseling, local
worship center, etc. Faith connection is not a criteria for choice. When the couples
return and join a church, follow-up is still needed.
Question: How long has OHOP existed?
Answer: Three years. OHOP helps answer three key questions: What is truth? What
gives my life meaning? Where do I fit in my community?
Question: Please expand on your after-care program.
Answer: Contacts, Cove Reunion, and face visit in emergencies.
GUARDING RELIGIOUS FREE EXERCISE (Representatives from the Chiefs of
Chaplains)
The U.S. Constitution Bill of Rights (First Amendment) balances free exercise of religion
with prohibitions on Congress for establishing a state religion or giving preference to
one particular faith. The USAF chaplain reviewed legal support for religious liberty.
Commanders and attorneys should not make decisions on accommodation of religious
practice without chaplain input. The USN chaplain shared that their instruction on
accommodation is being reviewed and rewritten. When DOMA was repealed, the Navy
decided that no new policies or instructions were needed. The Army chaplain (3-5-7)
stated the update on AR 165-1 has been in the staffing process for nearly two years.
Any previous policy letters from former Chiefs of Chaplains have substance, but are no
longer binding. Chaplains must continually be looking at potential impacts of changes
on the Chaplain Corps. Chaplains work in a complex environment and need leader
development rather than a list of dos and don’ts. Endorsers were advised to step up
frequent communications with chaplains. The Army chaplain mission is to provide
religious support for soldiers and their family members. Even though an issue may be
of interest, if it distracts from that mission, the Chief advised to let it be. In 2015 several
litigation issues will be faced. Previous NDAA sections on accommodation of religious
practices have been codified into Title 10 of U.S. public law.
Question: How was the decision made that appears to approve an article by an atheists
in a wing newspaper, while an article by a Christian was withheld from being published?
Answer: Situations like this call for a delicate balance; there are no easy answers.
Question: What kind of guidance could the Chief of Chaplains office give a wing
commander in this kind of situation?
Answer: What is the range of options available in these kind of complex environments?
Have any laws or regulations been violated? Perhaps a townhall meeting could
become a positive opportunity for explaining faith or no faith.
Question: Should endorsers call commanders or the Chief of Chaplains on issues?
Answer: Army – email directly to the Chief or the AFCB Executive Director. Inability for
a chaplain to resolve issues at her or his level is also an issue for the Chief’s office.
Navy – full and frank communication is expected between endorsers and the Chief.
Air Force – go to the lowest level which could be the wing commander.
Question: Have the results of the DoDIG interview been released yet?
Answer: The survey with commanders and others has not been completed yet.
INTERACTIVE POLICY ISSUES WORKSHOP
Ken Bush facilitated a table-top discussion of three scenarios. See attachment.
Each table appointed a spokesperson who reported their discussion to the entire
plenary body. Answers from the groups were quite similar and indicated a fairly good
concept of the issues. Some tables felt more information was needed; hence, the need
for caution in proceeding to snap reactions. A good reply to an offended party is simply
the statement, “I am sorry you feel offended.” Be careful about making assumptions.
Answers advocated increased communication with the service Chief’s offices is needed.
Chaplains should approach commanders with solutions, rather than negatives about
what they cannot do. Give them options that provide solutions.
While some endorsers back their chaplains on conscientious stands, that chaplain’s
position may be more of a personal position than one that accurately reflects the official
position of the endorsing faith group and not supported by the endorser or faith group.
ENSURING HIGH STANDARDS: LESSONS LEARNED (Military Recruiters)
A new authorization about Navy recruitment is coming out shortly. High scholastic
standards and two years of post-seminary pastoral experience are being strictly
enforced. English language proficiency is essential. Chaplain candidates have a seven
year limit; after five years, continuation is granted year-by-year.
Outside the DoD standard, the Air Force has no “absolutes”; call their office to discuss.
Does an applicant meet the current requirements? What is their pastoral experience?
How does their mosaic of qualifications and experience form a “best fit” for the military
chaplaincy? Seminary graduates can serve in the Reserve without pastoral experience,
and can complete the COT and DCC while obtaining pastoral experience. Ordination or
“something similar” is required. The new form cannot be signed digitally; must use an
emulator. For chaplain candidates on the new DD 2088, complete the section on
ordination by stating, “non-applicable”.
CLOSING PRAYER – Jack Lea
Wednesday, 14 January 2015
DEVOTIONAL (Rabbi Irving Elson)
Recently, movies have followed Biblical characters, stories and themes. Young Moses
“looked around” to check if anybody was present before killing the taskmaster. Rabbis
interpret the text two ways: Moses was trying to determine if anyone could see what he
was about to do, or would people see him doing a heroic deed. What is our behavior
like when nobody is watching? That is a time to be a person of principle, faith and
courage. “In a place where there are no men, strive to be a man.” Many people care
less if God is watching and more if their neighbors are looking. We should inspire
service members to do what is right because it is the right thing to do, even when
nobody is watching.
DoD/VA JIF 1 (CAPT Shelia O’Mara, CHC, USN Retired; Dr. Jeffrey Rhodes; CDR
Matthew Stevens, CHC, USN; and Dr. Jason Nieusma)
“Nobody knows more about what is going on in the forces than chaplains.” Ministry of
presence is a contributing factor to that observation. The chaplains also offer sacred
space, where stories can be shared safely. A growing movement in religious bodies is
training their clergy around mental health.
Why see a chaplain? Why not go to a mental health provider instead?
1. Familiarity and convenience.
2. Reduced stigma.
3. Accessibility in times of crisis. Chaplains deploy with the troops.
4. Shared spiritual or religious worldview.
5. Fear of negative impact on their career if seeing a mental health provider.
6. Trusted confidant, bridge and advocate offering confidentiality.
Why integrate chaplaincy and mental health?
1. People who are suffering turn to clergy and chaplains.
2. Spirituality and mental health are related in meaningful ways with particularities in
service members and veterans.
3. Integration between mental health and chaplaincy.
For the four to five years research has been conducted between VA mental health and
chaplaincy to evaluate integration via task groups, surveys and site visits.
Spiritual needs – perspectives from mental health providers and chaplains:
1. Moral injury forgiveness, freedom from shame and guilt.
2. Loss of faith and how to re-integrate into the family after loss of faith.
3. Building healthy relationships with family and community.
4. Reconnect with spiritual side.
5. Safe environment to tell their story.
A number of barriers hindered cooperative work between chaplains and mental health.
The research also looked at solutions, such as cross-training, embracing integrated
roles, how to prevent proselytizing, etc. The VA has only about half the number of
evangelical-oriented Protestant chaplains as does the active force. Chaplains are
“front-line” providers in addressing mental health problems. They need to be trained to
know their limitations and when to make referrals. Often veterans come to the VA for
treatment of PTSD when they sense a need for forgiveness and treatment of guilt. Part
of the survey studied roles; what jobs belong to chaplains, what jobs belong to mental
health? Some shared territory exists, though how certain needs are addressed will be
done differently. Integration between the two disciplines hinges on relationships. A
short video on moral injury was shown. The slides are attached.
DOMESTIC VIOLENCE (Rosemary Williams)
The DoD Office of Military Community and Family Policy looks for ways to work with
chaplains in furthering family safety and prevention of domestic violence, child abuse
and neglect. A segment of the population will only go to chaplains for help. Spouses
also serve and help. Seventy percent of military families live outside the gates of
military installations. Community sources of help are needed. An app entitled,
“Community Life.com” is sponsored by the National Military Family Association
describes numerous resources. Coordination and networking of sources for assistance
are essential; no one agency can do or be it all for families. A number of programs such
as “New Parent Support Program” have high success rates in preventing incidents of
abuse and neglect. Awareness and training can be life-saving. Never under-estimate
the influence of the chaplaincy!
Question: What is the budgetary outlook for DoD family programs?
Answer: Family Advocacy is centrally managed and funded at the DoD level, so it will
remain intact. Utilization is key to maintaining any program. The numbers of family
violence are below the civilian averages, but is increasing in the military. MFLC
counselors embetted in the units must coordinate with the chaplains; the two must
work together.
Question: What are the rules around privileged communication in reporting cases of
child abuse?
Answer: Reporting is an absolute requirement. The privilege belongs to the military
member, rather than the chaplain. In case a State subpoenas you to divulge
confidential information, the SJA will defend you as a Title 10 chaplain.
Question: What is the 800 number for One Source?
Answer: It is posted well on the website – (800) 342-9647
LUNCH
Safeguarding Religious Free Exercise (Dr. Barbara McGraw)
Dr. Barbara McGraw is the Director of the Center for Engaged Religious Pluralism. She
authored Rediscoveirng America’s Sacred Ground. What is pluralism? Government
chaplaincies differ from civilian pastorates. Chaplains come from a distinct faith, but
must transition to serving people of many or no faiths. The Cutter versus Wilkinson,
U.S. Supreme Court, 2005, cited Katcoff versus Marsh, 2nd Circuit Court, 1985, tried
whether chaplaincy violated the establishment clause. Both cases decided chaplains
are needed to serve the free exercise rights of the people, rather than their own rights.
In the prison (and military) context religious diversity is increasing exponentially. It is
practically impossible for every religious faith to have a chaplain. So there is increasing
pressure on chaplains to facilitate ministry for everyone. Officials are starting to
question chaplains’ competency to serve. As a result, new approaches to the function
of chaplaincy are developing; e.g., coordinators. A major 9th Circuit Court ruling stated
there is no right to be a chaplain. The trend is toward religious pluralism. The focus is
on those who we serve and not on the chaplain’s religion.
John Locke’s philosophy was foundational to the founders of the United States. The
Founding Fathers were broader in their thinking than we attribute to them today. God
was perceived as speaking directly to the people, and the people forming communities
of conscience to build a good culture and society. From this thinking arose two
fundamental principles: liberty, based on the belief that the people have free will and
that should be free to go to God in their own way; and equality based on the belief in the
equal inherent dignity of each and every human being. These principles required no
prescribed religion or established, mandated faith.
Military chaplains are an arm of the government who wear the two hats of free exercise
and equality / neutrality. The Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA) states that no
government shall impose a substantial burden on the religious exercise of a person,
even if the rule has general applicability. Substantial burden is more than an
inconvenience. In the military seven compelling interests can cause “my liberty ends at
your nose.” How can we implement compelling interest with the least restrictive
means? The whole reason for the chaplaincy rests with who we serve.
Society is faced with the extremes of ignoring religion or allowing one to dominate
others, but Pluralism is not just diversity, tolerance, or relativism. Religious leadership
can be a source of conflict or an invitation to cooperation and overcoming our own
biases. Interfaith leadership reduces religious discord. Pluralists build bridges of
respect. Doing an activity together creates a “super ordinate identity” (SOI). Five key
competencies of an effective interfaith leader:
1. Religious liberty – know the basics.
2. Communication and dialogue skills.
3. Leadership.
4. Identity formation.
5. Critical reflection on bias.
Question: What is your definition of religion and is it broad enough to include
philosophy?
Answer: Yes. The courts will not define religion and does not want government to do
so either. Religion consists of whatever is of ultimate concern in their lives. In many
countries and languages no word exists for religion, because culture and the spiritual
are intertwined.
Question: Has your organization dissected the issues of freedom of religion and
freedom of speech.
Answer: The rights of conscience and speech intertwine, but the lines are not real
clear.
Question: Is there a hierarchy of priorities versus a balance of priorities?
Answer: What if the problem is the chaplain? From her study of the founders, there is
a hierarchy.
INTERACTIVE PLURALISM WORKSHOP (CH (COL) Ken Bush, USA, Retired)
Ken Bush facilitated a table-top discussion of four scenarios on religious free exercise.
See attachment. Again, each table appointed a spokesperson who reported their
discussion to the entire plenary body. Answers from the groups varied considerably.
LEGITIMATE DISSENT in the MILITARY CONTEXT (CH (COL) Ken Bush, USA,
Retired)
How can one express dissent in a legitimate manner? Only one Chief of Chaplains has
ever resigned over a difference of principle.
General guidance:
1. Always be respectful.
2. The first report is generally not completely accurate.
3. War at the lowest level and use the chain of command.
4. Keep a record of all interactions.
5. Know the law and seek legal counsel.
First principles for chaplains:
1. Build trust beforehand – character, competence, communication and commitment.
2. Know the scope and level of your responsibility.
3. Distinguish between wrong and different.
4. Be sure to get a clarification of what is expected in writing if available (policy letter,
directives, etc.).
5. Do your homework – research your position thoroughly and prepare a written
argument. Understand your Chief of Chaplains’ policy, clarify your technical chain’s
policy, your endorser’s and denomination’s position.
6. Formulate course of action if you have an issue with a particular directive.
7. Talk with your supervisor and technical chain.
8. Keep your endorser informed.
9. Talk with a senior denominational chaplain.
10. Consider the timing of your appeal.
11. Talk with your legal advisor.
12. Do not talk with the press or advocacy groups, or make your issue public.
13. Don’t over-react and always remain respectful – never threaten.
First principles for endorsers:
1. Formulate clear written policy beforehand.
2. Know what the service Chiefs of Chaplains think about potential areas of concern.
3. Understand the issue.
4. Work through a local senior chaplain of your denomination where possible.
5. Work at the lowest level first.
6. Know where to go to get legal counsel.
7. Avoid the court of public opinion.
BUSINESS MEETING
The business session was chaired by Keith Travis. Four items of business were
presented for consideration by NCMAF members:
SECRETARY’S REPORT
The minutes from the 2014 NCMAF Annual Conference business session were
approved by unanimous vote.
TREASURER’S REPORT
The Financial Summary showed NCMAF business activity from 1 Jan thru 31 Dec 14
with a total income of $136,405 and expenses of $183,060 for a net loss of $46,655.
Fair Share contributions totaled $85,224. The checking account balance is $12,509.
Designated offerings were up for the year and came to a total of only $7,539, but the
Combined Federal Campaign contributions dropped to $3,619. The motion to accept
the treasurer’s report for 2014 was voted approved.
The 2015 budget of $170,200 income and $203,543 expenses and wages were
presented, moved and seconded. The current worth of NCMAF investments is
$296,000 without interest added as of 31Dec 2014. The 2015 budget was voted
approved with no opposition.
NOMINATING COMMITTEE REPORT
The Nominating Committee report was read and the nominees introduced for a threeyear term running 2015 to 2018. The report was approved by acclamation.
POSITION
NAME
FAITH
Chair-elect
Secretary
Treasurer
Member-at-large
Member-at-large
Member-at-large
Member-at-large
Sarah Lammert
Derek L.S. Jones
Scott McChrystal
Delano Ellis
Christy Moeller
Lawrence Greenslit
Douglas Lee
Unitarian Universalist Church
Convocation of Anglicans in N.A.
Assemblies of God
Church of God in Christ, Inc.
American Baptists of N.A.
Presbyterian Council, U.S.A.
Presbyterian and Reformed
Commission
FAREWELLS
EXCOM MEMBERS
NAME
Keith Travis
Gary R. Councell
Klon Kitchen
Ronald Crews
POSITION
Chairman of the Executive Committee.
Secretary of the Executive Committee.
Member-at-large
Member-at-large
ENDORSERS
NAME OF ENDORSER
Tom Carter
John Craycraft
Gary R. Councell
Allan Russell
RELIGIOUS BODY
United Methodist
Christian Churches and Churches of Christ
Seventh-day Adventist
Coalition of Baptists America Chaplaincy
OTHER BUSINESS
Appreciation was also expressed to Clara Everhart for her administrative work and
organization in preparing the logistical support for this year’s conference.
As we navigate transition and changes, NCMAF must be prayerful and unified in
maintaining our integrity to speak with one voice to our country in fulfilling the spiritual
needs of our military service members.
Next year’s NCMAF Plenary will be held 11 thru 13 January 2016 in the Hilton Mark
Center Hotel, Alexandria, Virginia.
CLOSING PRAYER – Chaplain Gary R. Councell
ADJOURMENT – 5:00 pm., Wednesday, 14 January 2015.
Gary R. Councell
EXCOM Secretary
NCMAF
ATTACHMENTS:
1 – 2014 Plenary Minutes
2 – Treasurer’s Report
3 – Ensuring High Standards
4 – Guarding Religious Free Exercise
5 – Chaplain and Mental Health Joint Initiative
6 – Table-top Scenarios (4 pages)
7 – Closing Prayer
8 – AFCB Agenda
9 – Navy Briefing at AFCB Training
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