F40 fair funding briefing for MPs - Committee Room 11, Houses of Parliament
Tuesday 3 February 2015
1. Attendance
F40: Robin Walker MP, Nic Dakin MP and Sir Nick Harvey (f40’s three Vice Chairs), Stewart King, Margaret Judd,
Gillian Hayward and Doug Allan (Secretary).
Andrew Bridgen MP; Anne-Marie Morris MP; Karen Lumley MP; Graham Stuart MP; Jeremy Lefroy MP; Marcus Jones
MP; Julian Sturdy MP; Mark Pawsey MP; Sir Alan Duncan MP; Bill Wiggin MP; Richard Graham MP; Caroline Spelman
MP; Neil Parish MP; Mrs Pauline Latham OBE MP; Fiona Bruce MP; Neil Carmichael MP; Michael Fabricant MP;
William Cash MP; Jonathan Djanogly MP; Sir James Paice MP; Annette Brook MP; David Heath MP; Christopher
Pincher MP; Steve Brine MP
Caroline Scott (for Robert Walter MP); Arthur Virgo (for Phillip Dunne MP); Kay Abigail (for Karen Bradley MP);
Matthew Joy (for Therese Coffey MP); Fionna Todd (for Neil Parrish MP; Philippa Reevy (for Harriett Baldwin MP);
Jessica Hosner-Wright (for Sajid Javid MP); Toby Williams (for Hugo Swire MP); Thomas Barlow (office of Anne-Marie
Morris MP); Pippa Page (office of Sir Nick Harvey MP); Tim Jacob (office of Neil Parish MP); Harry Dobson & Freddie
Hodgeson (office of Shailesh Vara MP; representative from the office of Ben Bradshaw MP; Janet Pace
2. Apologies Received
Kelvin Hopkins MP, Sir Peter Luff, MP, Sir Hugh Bayley MP, Ronnie Campbell MP, Yvonne Fovargue MP, Andy
Burnham MP, Dr Sarah Wollaston MP, Nicky Morgan MP, Robert Walter MP, Sajid Javid MP.
The following Members had indicated that they would attend but didn’t because of urgent business in the House:
Andrew Bingham MP; Nigel Adams MP; Karl McCartney MP; Graham Brady MP; Andrew Lansley CBE MP; Sir Andrew
Stunell MP; Tessa Munt MP; Dan Byles MP.
3. Welcome and Introduction
Robin Walker MP welcomed everyone and thanked them for coming to this special briefing on school funding. He
announced that Ivan Ould should have been chairing the event, but that he is absent due to illness. RW expressed his
gratitude to Ivan Ould for his leadership and hard work on behalf of f40 over many years.
RW referred to recent success in gaining extra £390m, much of which will benefit f40 authorities in 2015-16 and
beyond. The Coalition Government has recognised the unfairness of present school funding and committed to a new
formula. F40 has developed its own proposals for a new formula and made a presentation to DfE officials, which
was well-received. The DfE has created a range of scenarios using f40’s formula: these are confidential at the
moment. However, he indicated that in general terms the gains that most f40 and other rural areas would expect in
terms of funding uplift would be around two to three times greater under f40s proposals than in a no change
scenario, there would be more winners and fewer losers overall and the authorities likely to lose funding were
overwhelmingly concentrated in larger cities, especially inner London.
RW indicated that he aims to maintain pressure on the leadership and Education teams of all parties by seeking a
Backbench Debate as soon as possible. He produced an application form and asked Members to support his bid. The
motion will be: “Given the continued fiscal pressure on the schools budget in the next Parliament, this House
believes the speedy implementation of a fair and transparent funding formula is more urgent than ever”.
4. Presentation
Stewart King, who has led the f40 research team looking at a new formula, gave a presentation of the proposals. The
presentation is being sent to all f40 MPs and is enclosed with this note of the meeting.
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5. Discussion
RW said emphasised that the proposals do not come in year one! They are actually year 21, which is how long it has
taken to get to this point in f40’s campaign. He emphasised the need to see real movement and a swift change,
regardless of which party is in Government after May. If the agenda is a “flat cash”, then an urgent settlement on a
fairer distribution is absolutely essential.
William Cash MP described the years of campaigning he has undertaken to get an improved settlement for
Staffordshire. He pondered why it is that Surrey, which has a similar population to Staffordshire, should have such
much more per pupil. SK said it is extremely difficult to explain but that, in part, is the difficulty with the existing
system. He pointed out that both Staffordshire and Surrey would benefit under f40’s proposals. RW said that the
differences in funding between neighbouring LAs had always been an issue, as in Leicester/Leicestershire and Stokeon-Trent/ Staffordshire. Despite the disparities in funding, in a “no change” scenario Stoke-on-Trent looked set to
gain more than Staffordshire whereas, in the f40 proposals Staffordshire, which missed out on any substantial share
of the £390m down-payment, stood to gain more than Stoke. This demonstrates the need for a fair base funding,
before deprivation additions are introduced. WC was the first MP to agree to sign the backbench debate motion.
Graham Stuart MP, who is Chair of the Education Select Committee, said that the East Riding of Yorkshire had
suffered because the Fairer Funding extra funding for 2015-16 had been worked out on the Schools Block only. The
council had taken decisions historically on High Needs which impacted on how they are now being funded. SK
pointed out that because the extra cash was calculated on Schools Block only, some LAs lost out. F40 argued the
case for a different calculation, but was unsuccessful. ERYC would be a gainer under f40’s proposals.
GS also asked if f40 had plans to release the outcome per LA that stem from its proposals as if we are to mobilise
MPs they must have ammunition to argue the case. The London boroughs and big Mets have tremendous
organisation and influence, so we must be organised. RW said he fully understood these points but the current
figures were supplied in confidence, but he has asked f40 to provide estimates to each of their members as to how
much uplift they can expect from the proposals and these will be circulated as soon as they have been prepared.
GS also counter-signed the motion and, as the Select Committee chair, he is one of the four proposers alongside the
three f40 vice chairs.
Jeremy Lefroy MP said that Staffordshire was getting no extra funding initially, but when the sum available increased
to £390m, it resulted in an extra allocation of £100k. Now it is vitally important to get the new funding formula in
place as quickly as possible. He also flagged up the problem of capital funding, though RW acknowledged that there
are also significant challenges with capital funding and that there is a strong argument that this is correlate to the
longstanding problems with the funding formula but argued that it was important to focus on the argument about
the formula and revenue funding first and then to seek redress for the capital side of the equation once this has
been fixed.
Anne-Marie Morris MP commented that f40 has done remarkably well with its proposals but she wondered how
robust the formula is. It would be helpful if the detail could be shared so that MPs could see for themselves. She
added that it is imperative that f40 LAs are 100 per cent behind any final proposals put forward. RW again indicated
his desire to see the modelling circulated as soon as f40 can produce their own figure on this. SK spoke about the
robustness of the f40 proposals and the fact that they had been widely consulted on and supported by f40 member
authorities. He added that the Research Team had used reasonable assumptions about things such as class sizes and
that the proposed formula is flexible enough to cope with all school situations. Not all authorities are using the
sparsity factor and we really need one which is robust.
RW added that the vast majority of f40 member LAs had approved the proposals so far. He also said that the group
has recently recruited a new member LA – Lincolnshire – and that more authorities are on the point of joining.
However, he pointed out that another dozen or so LAs ought to be in membership and he hoped that they might
also be encouraged to join up.
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Sir Nick Harvey MP said he was pleased to be a Vice Chair of f40 and fully supported the group’s aims. F40 has
undertaken a substantial and worthwhile piece of work. The government has shown some good faith with the extra
£390m, but we now need to achieve a new “flatter” and fairer funding arrangement. Some areas have higher costs
than others, but this can be dealt with. In respect of the Surrey point raised earlier, he added that when teachers
stay put for a long time, as in Devon, the cost of employing them rises over time. Therefore, the argument that
Surrey needs more funding due to the competitive nature of the market is cancelled out by places like Devon having
more length of service and seniority. This is another argument for a flatter formula.
Michael Fabricant MP expressed the view that it has taken a long time to reach this point and whilst he can see
merit in f40’s proposals, he suggested that other LA interest groups will argue strongly for the status quo. They will
put up significant resistance to our ideas. LEPs in urban areas in particular will be a problem. RW responded by
suggesting that the Coalition government has recognised the need for change and promised a new formula, which
will be fair and transparent. They can’t renege on that promise, even though there will be strong arguments about
any change. Getting change will continue to take time but we must be strong and fight as one.
MF said he and colleagues had met Schools Minister David Laws and he was more concerned about those who
would suffer than rectifying the unfairness inherent in the system. He added that he had not seen any pragmatic
change of that view. RW flagged up fact that f40 has worked closely with DfE officials with the full backing of David
Laws. Under f40’s proposals there are 98 LAs that would benefit and 50 who would lose. So there are plenty of allies
– both in f40 and not in membership. When we can share our modelling, it is likely that the majority of LAs will back
these proposals.
Marcus Jones MP thanked f40’s three vice chairs for their efforts on behalf of all poorly funded LAs. His point related
to teaching staff. In Warwickshire they suffer because teachers are sucked in to the Birmingham system, where they
are paid more. RW suggested that the issue of teacher retention has been raised. He also said that rural counties,
despite poor funding, often can demonstrate excellent standards of education, but that doesn’t mean that they are
adequately funded.
MJ suggested that LAs like his get a bad deal in term of deprivation funding. RW agreed and said that the huge
amounts of cash fixed in to the base formula for deprivation needs examining.
There was a discussion about academies and free schools and their impact on funding. RW said that in f40’s
proposals they are dealt with in the same way as maintained schools. A flatter cash funding formula will be
beneficial.
Graham Stuart MP pointed out that multi-academy trusts have a great deal of clout at the present time. We should
be reaching out to them as our problems are theirs. They could make a useful ally. RW wholeheartedly agreed.
Nic Dakin MP congratulated f40 on its work. He said he was unable at this time to say much about Labour’s stance
on education funding as there’s a big debate going on pre-election. However, he encouraged f40 to maintain its
position and continue to work for a fairer settlement. He agreed that there are many potential allies that f40 should
court. Reasonable and intelligent people will easily see the merits of the argument…and support it. In terms of his
own LA, he suggested they had been disadvantaged over many years and they want change. RW thanked ND and
suggested f40 had been successful because it has always been cross-party and all-inclusive.
Anne-Marie Morris MP suggested that the government is more interested in “success” than “fair funding. RW said
that there is very little correlation between success and the amount of funding, but there is evidence that additional
funding has benefitted the standards reached in urban areas. The link between standards and funding is difficult to
prove. Broadly the basic argument for a new fair and transparent formula is agreed by all parties and we must
maintain the campaign for a new arrangement to be in place as soon as is feasible.
RW thanked everyone for attending.
Ends
Doug Allan, Secretary to f40
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