1.
Can a "positive" command climate exist apart from an "ethical" command climate? Can you maintain an effective command that's not also an ethical command?
1.1.
Possibly, but I wouldn't want to serve in it.
1.1.1.
The commander’s superior judges “effective,” often they don't have a good look at what really goes on.
1.1.1.1.
Exactly, which is why it can be done, but it isn't pretty for the subordinates
1.1.2.
Interesting. This gets to yesterday's convo about integrity (internal) and magnanimity (external validation)
1.2.
I think not.
1.2.1.
I agree 100%, but some see 'effective' at odds w 'ethical'.
1.2.2.
If a command climate is "positive" but not "ethical,” I seriously question the people in that command.
1.2.3.
Could perhaps be positive short-term... maybe 30min.
1.3.
History points to command by fear & command by bribery as the other alternatives.
1.3.1.
History also points to oppression, a flat earth, and leaches. Should we aspire to things simply for being historical?
1.3.2.
I wasn't arguing that we should aspire to these, just that they are alternative methods to ethical command.
2.
Shinn notes, “Command is compulsory, yet its effectiveness does not depend solely on compulsion.” On what does effective command rest?
2.1.
According to Gen Loh,
2.1.1.1.1.
[Command= f{leadership, discipline, justice, fairness, compassion} + {scrutiny, care, motivation}]
2.2.
there are many dimensions to command. It is very hard to narrow it down depending on the circumstances. When commanding soldiers present day: Soldiers are individualistic and do not like being told what to do... even though they are in the army. It is the paradox of modern day command. Understand that will help commanders. But you can't wear empathy on your sleeve or you look like a duplicitous ass.
2.3.
People may not like being told what to do, but they generally comply with expectations.
Barone suggested lack of clearly communicated expectations was at root of Abu Ghraib. so Commanders need to set clear expectations
2.3.1.1.
And that's true outside of the military as well.
2.3.1.2.
Accountability if expectations not met?
2.3.1.3.
Who LIKES being told what to do? If they liked it, all they'd need is ethical boss...
Clear standards, equitably upheld. Not something our organizations do consistently well.
2.3.2.
True, but I think soldiers have never liked being told. Suspect societal changes & family changes.

2.3.2.1.
This is Shinn's point -- real following isn't compulsory; it's voluntary. Key is motivating followership. And followers have the responsibility to follow cheerfully (this is discipline). Two-way street.
2.3.2.1.1.
Requires leaders to set consistent inspiring example. Tough demand there.
2.3.2.2.
But once trust is established then individuals will subordinate their selfinterest for the collective good.
2.3.2.3.
Accession sources are supposed to teach this & give people chance to demonstrate before passing them.
2.3.2.3.1.
Supposed to - perhaps in coming days of draw-down they will! But for 1.3mil already in?
2.3.2.4.
Not to take this off course but some people are just natural leaders that develop over time.
2.3.2.4.1.
Don't disagree, but that's sort of a cop out. Every Marine is a leader, even ones who aren't natural. Still have to work at cultivating that skill.
2.3.2.4.2.
Very much so. Trust & respect go a long way with subordinates.
Will move heaven and earth for that leader.
2.3.2.4.3.
It is touchy subject. I recognize that. Put another way, there are leaders and then there a commanders.
2.3.2.4.4.
That's fair. Danger is when natural leader isn't committed to moral or ethical standards.
2.3.2.4.5.
Gets into born leader vs learned leadership argument. Not really an ethical discussion, but interesting.
2.3.2.4.6.
Oh yeah. That is trouble. Sources of influence for the bad.
2.3.2.4.7.
Is ethical question. If natural leader is unethical / immoral, can derail whole unit, even if commander is both.
2.3.2.4.8.
Was Patton a good commander? Yes. He was an ass but he was a winner.
2.3.2.4.8.1.
They made me feel like I was important by knowing me and my family
2.3.2.4.8.2.
David Hackworth: you have to know your soldiers.
Everything about them.
2.3.2.4.8.3.
Yes to personal relationship, but that doesn't translate to buddies.
2.3.2.4.8.4.
When a leader remembers that your wife is sick and ask about her, he wins. Not being a buddy.
2.3.2.4.9.
Competence and preparedness are the first steps to that cultivation.
2.3.2.4.10.
Agree 100%. I see the importance of selflessness too. Can be competent, prepared ass.

2.3.2.4.11.
Study the natural leaders to glean their secrets; but remember they're human as well. But many past examples could not survive today's environment of 24/7 scrutiny. And some say Patton unlikely to succeed
21st century ethical scrutiny
2.3.2.4.11.1.
Yes, and this is distressing. How do we create a climate where leaders with Patton's skills make it through gauntlet?
2.3.2.4.11.2.
Patton not succeeding today is a problem that needs fixed.
That is a problem. We have to remember these are humans. We have to start distinguishing... truly unethical behavior and human sinfulness. Stop treating them the same.
2.3.2.4.11.2.1.
Patton was effective in using pride to overcome some of his assness in leadership
2.3.2.4.11.3.
What would be an example of each?
2.3.2.4.11.3.1.
Perhaps a criminal versus what some would call a "toxic leader."
2.3.2.4.11.4.
Yes. As Loh says, distinguish between mistakes (teaching opportunities) and criminal behavior
2.3.2.4.11.5.
We need to ask Nick Saban because Saban seems to lead that way
2.3.2.4.11.6.
That's a sorry state of affairs if Saban's style is unacceptable in the military.
2.3.2.4.11.7.
I thought we were referencing him as a model, not cautionary tale.
2.3.2.4.11.8.
I’m a Saban fan. His leadership fits him perfectly and works great for him.
2.3.2.4.11.9.
But Saban's explosiveness would lead to him being branded as "toxic."
2.3.2.4.11.10.
Ah. I'm a Tony Dungy fan, myself.
2.3.2.4.11.11.
Good point. Leadership must be authentic to the individual.
Watching Gregg Popovich in action as we type.
2.3.3.
That Bartone piece is something, right? Makes so much sense, but not intuitive for everyone.
3.
Shinn gives 3 qualities that motivate unit discipline: fairness, (moral) courage, and selflessness. Does this seem reasonable?
3.1.
Think those are important for motivation - but discipline also requires clearly communicated standards.
3.1.1.
Amen. Bartone is clear on this point. Lack of clearly set and maintained expectations = much badness.
3.2.
Those qualities lead to trust. Trust is prerequisite for effective command.
3.2.1.
Respect, up and down the chain, has to be a keystone of command as well.

3.2.2.
If the trust is broken, how do you bring discipline and order back?
3.2.2.1.
By having trust top to bottom. You will have interveners to bring them back.
3.2.3.
I agree, at the co. & bn. level. How necessary is it at the org level? If big army lacks the 3, then what?
3.2.4.
From Abu Ghraib report, "basic soldier standards" were not upheld. Shinn's courage? "Leaders unwilling to confront situations of misconduct" Big issue in the army.
3.2.4.1.
Check. Serious indicator of other deeper issues. If you can't do the easy things.
3.2.4.2.
Lack of moral courage (and integrity), to be sure.
3.2.4.3.
Problem. These allow leaders to practice moral courage, preparing for tough sit.!
3.2.5.
Problem here is leaders allowing fear of confrontation to override what they know is right. Want to be everybody's buddy.
3.2.5.1.
Agree 100%. Not stopping the guy that fails to salute = not stopping the guy that's about to get his men killed in combat.
3.2.5.2.
Close but reversed: Letting things slide to be seen as the Cool Guy =
*you're* the one that's going to get people killed.
3.2.5.3.
Spot on. A lot of officers could learn from their senior NCOs when it comes to basic soldier discipline -> unit discipline.
3.2.5.3.1.
Agree. My dad was senior NCO and they knew he'd hold em to the fire. So they performed.
3.2.5.3.2.
and that's accountability - being held responsible for actions - and failures. I think accountability is paramount in any organization, not just military and like responsibility, it is sorely lacking in all facets of modern life
3.2.5.4.
True, but with this caveat: “ Sergeants major are either oxygen thieves or the
World's Greatest Warriors. There is no middle ground option”.
( http://twitter.com/#!/abumuqawama/status/296622692390555649 )… And unit discipline comes from many sources, not just surface decorum.
3.3.
What role does charisma play? How can some walk in a room and demand respect with demeanor?
3.3.1.
Great question. Charisma is motivational, but if charismatic leader is bad, can be catastrophic!
3.4.
Don't forget about a commander that is competent or a winner. No one wants to follow a loser. Truism of life. George Washington: I'd rather have an army of asses led by a lion than an army of lions led by an ass.
3.5.
We've gone down a very slippery slope with leaders, because they don't want to come off as a jerk.

3.5.1.
Jerk is a style problem; can be accountable/ethical - so long as consistent & transparent. Actions match words.
3.6.
How does the entire command team work together to build an ethical command climate?
3.6.1.
1st by setting expectations for the group, being accountable to the group; let the examples flow down
3.7.
Being able to create an ally mentality without sacrificing ethics in fairness is essential to leadership / motivating behavior
4.
Have competence, fairness, moral courage, selflessness, trust, accountability, & clear expectations. This = ethical command climate?
4.1.1.
Needs a dash of justice.
4.1.1.1.
I sort of lumped that together w fairness in my head, but I agree!
4.1.2.
Add scrutiny - which is required for accountability and responsibility - and you're there.
4.1.3.
Ethical climate requires leaders/supervisors to walk the talk and subordinates to comply/enforce/encourage ethical behavior
4.1.3.1.
Absolutely a two-way street. We've focused mostly on leaders tonight.
Will focus on followers last week of class.
4.1.3.1.1.
"follower" by definition requires "leaders" &v/v -when you're out front, turn around & see if they’re following
4.1.3.1.2.
If you're not leading your men, somebody else will.
4.1.3.1.3.
RIGHT, esp when in ops where other ideologies may be competing
#COIN #LiveYourEthics
4.1.3.1.4.
agree and why it’s critical leaders identify/ensure informal ldrs are walking talk
4.1.3.1.4.1.
Yes. Walk the walk and bring junior leaders along with you on that walk. %100
4.1.3.1.4.2.
Leaders build other leaders. Key. Especially as span of control grows...
And when leading most junior troops who respond predominantly to surroundings
4.1.3.1.4.3.
The influence of senior leaders is key. Younger leaders are very impressionable & very often will emulate behavior that meshes with what they think senior leaders want.
4.1.3.1.4.4.
YES. Prime time or "teachable moment."
4.1.3.1.4.5.
4.1.3.1.4.6.
And forming their own ideas of leadership and ethics.
Taguba Report shows this. 'If seniors thought was wrong, would have stopped' 'They never stopped, so must have been okay.'
4.1.3.1.4.6.1.
I believe in most cases like this, leaders think all is rosy; all the more so because they are not engaged and troops see them as not caring

4.1.3.1.4.7.
Right. You are 'teaching' whatever you do. They are watching.
4.1.3.1.4.7.1.
Yes and providing own narrative if not discussed/demonstrated consistently
4.1.3.1.4.7.2.
Managers instead of real leaders.
4.1.3.1.4.7.2.1.
yes and providing own narrative if not discussed/demonstrated consistently
4.1.3.1.4.7.3.
Real issue: Supervising w/o micromanaging. Could have
4.1.3.1.4.8.
whole course on this alone.
Managing Ethics: how to ensure they're on target w/o telling others HOW to believe. Course?
4.1.3.1.4.9.
I think supervision is part of leadership, but can be a tricky balance.
4.1.3.1.4.10.
Perhaps, I get nervous w management talk though.
Suggests statis, reactive rather than proactive, cultivating strengths
4.1.3.1.4.11.
Better folks than I will have to figure out THAT balancing act! I just live what I believe. We have sadly started embracing metrics over talent management. Sad, but true.
4.1.3.1.4.12.
maybe u should b the one to teach. I'm just an ivory tower academic, what do I know?
4.1.3.1.4.13.
EGADS NO! Lol I'm an armchair analyst now, and no longer an NCO. Easy to say from cheap seats. No worries! I totally get it!
4.1.3.1.4.14.
My daddy was NCO and he was a hecka lot sharper than those who were supposed experts.
4.1.3.1.4.15.
That's the Business School influence.
4.1.4.
That sounds like a checklist for all officer candidates to possess IMO
4.1.4.1.
I would think NCOs as well.
4.1.5.
One thing I've seen in leadership failure is believing that delegation somehow means you're no longer responsible
4.1.5.1.
I always remember: You can delegate authority, never responsibility.
Sounds trite, but cash money truth.
4.1.5.1.1.
trite aphorisms are goldmines of wisdom that keep paying out
4.1.6.
good indication of ethical climate is if subordinates feel they are treated well/respectfully and if are/enforce ethical behavior
5.
Sounds like we have a good handle on what an ethical command climate looks like. How do you create it when you walk into a bad one?
5.1.
Start by figuring out if you just replaced the commander that caused the bad one!
5.2.
Admit it and deal with until cancer is removed and replaced with authentic leaders

5.2.1.
Remember that fish rot from the head and make sure you've looked high enough to solve the problem
5.2.2.
LEAD BY EXAMPLE. And own responsibility for your actions. Troops will never respect you if you don't. Do what you say, yes, and make known the ethics behind your decisions. Don't discuss them (may show uncertainty) but let it be known they exist.
5.2.2.1.
They don't need to know the reasons, only that they are there?
5.2.2.2.
Tell them, but don't make it a conversation, especially in tactical commands. Don't want to present "rule by committee"
5.2.2.2.1.
Got it. That would be academia
5.3.
Building ethical command climate means: diagnose issue; admit it (confront, don't hide); lead by example; explain logic. What else?
5.3.1.
Find/address all causes (individual/organizational/situational) to extent can, usually replacing toxic leaders/rationalizations
5.3.2.
Create an incentive structure for behavior that pushes the unit as a whole towards acting in concert with moral principle.
5.3.3.
Set & communicate policies, plans & expectations for moving forward; set and enforce accountability; retrain as necessary;
5.3.4.
Confront it, let light in (no cover), openly address, root out/address toxic leaders
5.3.5.
Remember that you will get what you measure, so measures must support your goals.
5.3.6.
Impact of social learning is huge, subordinates learn what is rewarded/punished and seek/avoid associated behavior accordingly
5.3.7.
Incentivize you on that walk.
the behavior you want to see
5.3.7.1.
Why key to connect 'effective' and 'ethical'. Incentives orient, which is essential (need right direction)
5.3.7.2.
Be careful what you incentivize, see COL Steele and those below him.
5.3.7.3.
Describe the COL Steele remark. Thanks
5.3.7.4.
2006 Iraq. Brigade from 101 with a culture of incentivized violence, resulted in war crimes.
5.3.7.5.
I recommend the read. A perfect storm for disaster. Must incentivize violence and restraint.
5.3.7.6.
I think Steele's problem resulted from an operational/professional dispute with Chiarelli.
5.3.7.7.
I don't know if I am comfortable with a cause and effect by one instance.
5.3.7.8.
Partly. Lots involved, and I wasn't there. It looks like the culture needed more balance.
5.3.8.
All punished/rewarded equally and no exceptions
5.3.8.1.
Agreed. We discussed this as fairness and accountability. Would that work for you?

5.3.8.2.
Training staff debate whether should give him first place or take him down a peg, in end gave him first place which IMO right thing
5.3.8.3.
Based on performance over attitude, right? Want to make sure I understand.
5.3.8.4.
Yes, if indiv perform, however dislikable, must give credit
5.3.9.
Courage to mitigate issues and drive changes
5.4.
Important point of emotion in an Ethical Command Climate. We're wrapping up tonight, but will be key tomorrow
5.4.1.
Interesting connections to the unmanned combat vehicle debate to be had here.
5.4.1.1.
Somebody else said that! I'll be honest; I don't see how it differs in any meaningful way.
5.4.2.
I think removing the immediacy of contact can alter - not eliminate, alter - the emotions at work in combat.
5.4.3.
I read PW Singer's Wired for War as revealing precisely why this is meaningful connection
5.4.3.1.
Between unmanned systems and ethical command climate?
5.4.4.
Unmanned war = new subordinates/leaders, new methods, new distances, new fears (loss of jobs)
5.4.4.1.
Wouldn't agree, mankind same. Don't think much changed on human dynamics in warfare, read accounts of any war and a lot still same. EG if you read on issue of who command in Afghan, same stuff like debate who take over after Scipio Africanus command expire
5.4.4.1.1.
That claim goes against every fiber of my continental philosopher being...
5.4.4.1.2.
My argument on that based that human psyche still not changed, ambitions, hopes, jealousy, hatred etc. all still there
5.4.4.1.3.
Certainly a compelling argument, but maybe I could explain my
POV by saying there's a form/content distinction missing
5.4.5.
We might disagree on significance of this development, but we'll discuss in 2 weeks!
5.5.
Now we get into values not being universal
5.5.1.
I missed that turn. Situationist approach doesn't say My Lai was right; says the moral failing is understandable.
5.5.2.
I argue, like situationist, that virtue ethics is not enough to prevent/deter unethical behavior
5.5.3.
Ah, got it. But nothing is enough to prevent unethical behavior, even fear of death.
5.5.3.1.
Not fear of death; but Heideggerian resolute being-towards-death?
5.5.4.
yes, but overly relying on virtue ethics is not solving problem; most in headlines knew they were doing wrong

5.5.5.
Absolutely. Agree 100%.
5.5.6.
That's what I would have assumed, but answers tonight don't appear that way.
Changes in training rather than goals?
5.5.7.
Need to change training. Past/current beliefs for mil trng focus on virtue ethics as sole cure
5.5.8.
Yet I think that "situationism" is already in Aristotle. Military forgets theory of the mean in favor of habit formation
5.5.9.
Think viewpoints really depends on how broadly or narrowly we defined/view scope hence the diff in outlooks
5.5.10.
Now we just need to figure out a way for us to have this debate in my philosophy of war seminar w/my students
5.5.11.
Student tour to Kuala Lumpur
6.
Tonight we'll talk about dynamics within groups that can reinforce or erode ethical command climates. ICRC Report notes mutually reinforcing trends of obedience to authority & conformity to the group. How can use to build ethical unit?
6.1.
Accentuate the positive. Stress values in unit training, doctrine. Articulate & communicate standards and expectations. Address lagging morale. Uphold discipline.
Stress individual and unit responsibility; but Command must acknowledge responsibility for shortcomings and failures as well. Weed the garden.
6.1.1.
That all sounds good to me. The ICRC report makes it seem harder in practice.
How might conformity get in the way?
6.1.1.1.
Seems conformity can work both ways; as a positive and a negative.
6.1.1.2.
Yes. War crimes lit shows wanting to be part of group/dependency on group a factor. 1 person does it, others 2
6.1.1.2.1.
Yes; why garden weeding is essential. Expectations management key. Discipline required.
6.1.1.3.
Conformity can lead to group think, bad behavior, peer pressure to do wrong; but can also be used to raise morale, esprit
6.1.1.3.1.1.1.
This is part of the challenge, especially in small units.
Need cohesion and ability to operate w/o heavy supervision.
6.1.1.3.1.1.1.1.
Then you need mechanisms in place to selfregulate behaviors. Unit is only as good as it's last mission or patrol. have to ingrain the desire for excellence in every action to mitigate against the dark side forces of war
6.1.1.3.2.
Can breed a lack / displacement of responsibility. But “no conformity” is not an option either.
6.1.1.3.3.
(1) There's no alternative (some small units need to be small!); (2) that breeds conformity. That saves lives, but ...
6.1.1.3.3.1.
Which is why if loyalty is only to group, that can cause trouble.

6.1.1.3.3.1.1.
loyalty needs to be to group/ self/command/corps/nation/mission. ALL need to be stressed and internalized
6.1.1.3.3.1.2.
Right. My students always push me on whether the values are hierarchical esp. when in tension.
6.1.1.3.3.1.3.
Surely, at some point you dilute the meaning of loyalty?
6.1.1.3.3.1.4.
Not sure. I think harmony is paramount over hierarchy; you want all core values pulling together, not apart
6.1.1.3.3.1.5.
Displaced loyalty is death to an ethical command climate.
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.
In 2006, over 50% of Marines indicated they wouldn't report a unit member for violating laws of war. Displaced loyalty.
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.1.
Not so much more fear of displacement & ostricization than loyalty/fealty to the Corps and its members, no that is FEAR
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.2.
Failure to instill proper values & highlights need to react swiftly to such a finding; should be NO tolerance to war crimes
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.2.1.
The Marine Corps acted pretty fast to correct!
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.3.
Exactly right. This is why leaders receive a paycheck. Important to uphold standards -- all the time.
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.3.1.
Let's be honest - even the Bible warns of bad behavior on the part of soldiers - cowardice, rape, plunder, abuse, dereliction; but stresses the need to recognize and adopt positive behaviors to overcome the bad.
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.3.2.
I don't get paid
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.3.3.
then to thine own self be true, and it follows... thou canst be false to any man
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.3.4.
Yes the primary reason True Believers tend to win & are harder to beat, Wars are won in the will
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.4.
Important point, but doesn't mean they would endorse war crimes. May just indicate lack of confidence in other options.
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.4.1.
In that they didn't trust that the Marine who committed the act would be treated fairly if they reported it?
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.4.2.
Right. They may also have been wary that reporting it would place additional demands on them.
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.5.
This is huge. Lack of trust in the unit / org can breed willful hiding from accountability.

6.1.1.3.3.1.6.5.1.
Trust to be merciful? Or just?
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.5.2.
I don't think you necessarily have to sacrifice one for the other, but I meant fair / not thrown to wolves
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.5.3.
I understand. But cover up is often as bad as the crime itself. Again, need to articulate goals and expectations, and as you say, reinforce trust that mistakes will be dealt with in conformity with same
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.5.4.
Huge point. Even if people want to report, they may not.
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.5.5.
Even if people want to report, they may not.
How to overcome that?
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.5.6.
You only pick hearts & souls that glow, then training or forging that steel works better
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.5.7.
That's the million dollar question! Hard to tell, I think. Sometimes ones that seem gold turn out not to be, under pressure.
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.5.8.
This isn't just a military problem either -
SERPICO, ENRON. We seem to have institutionalized an ethic of "catch me if you can"
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.5.9.
Yup - whistleblowing always tuff esp. in corporate climate not willing to hear.
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.5.10.
Yes for ANY organization or unit, i.e. My
Human Family
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.5.11.
Key is to judge people under stress, when they retreat to their core values
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.6.
Why training should be realistic and incorporate realistic ethical challenges.
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.6.1.
Especially in corporate when setbacks will affect the precious bottom line
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.6.2.
Yes, but also anxious to avoid bad press too.
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.6.3.
Inevitably this philosophy of accumulation of things is defeatist
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.6.4.
In contracting, we referred to that as "the giggle factor" -“yes, it's legal, but do you want to read about it in the Washington Post?”
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.6.5.
I always ask myself if I'd be proud to tell my grandma. Amazingly effective!
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.6.6.
The "grandma standard" too subjective. I've known many shifty grandmothers.
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.7.
Not that that's ethical, of course, but we shouldn't read the >50% figure as a blanket endorsement of war crimes
6.1.1.3.3.1.6.7.1.
Didn't think I'd presented it that way, but you can't hide from the real danger that sentiment presents for ethical units

6.1.1.3.3.1.6.7.2.
You didn't; I just thought it was a useful
6.1.1.3.3.2.
clarification.
I think danger is in cognitive dissonance, when values don't line up or are in conflict, esp. group=individual
6.1.1.3.3.3.
Maybe when the organization is saying one thing, but members doing another. (Organization lacks integrity).
6.1.1.3.3.4.
Yes. Again, I see command scrutiny/presence essential here - to recognize good and discipline bad
6.1.1.3.3.4.1.
What organization doesn't do this? Individual Hypocrisy is inevitable, work around it.
6.1.1.3.3.5.
Remember the more we cooperate with each other the more we compete
6.1.1.3.3.5.1.
?? Say more?
6.1.1.3.3.5.2.
I call it Co-opetition. You have to be willing in part to give up advantage for the common good this is at the heart of change
6.1.1.3.3.6.
As you said before -- accentuate the positive!
6.1.1.4.
As you announced the topic for #METC tonight I was pondering the internecine rivalry in bands and orgs
6.1.1.5.
ICRC report: avoid cognitive dissonance through compliance and factor in group think. Leaders Lead, Plt. follows with discretion
6.1.2.
reading Loh, ICRC, & the Abu Ghraib sections, it seems command PRESENCE and SCRUTINY are essential to keeping unit on track
6.2.
Seems easy (relatively) to create bonds/loyalty to group. How do you create loyalty to other values/institution?
7.
Reading points out that young adults largely defined by peer group, so influence of climate on action most pronounced in junior troops. What specific actions are needed to keep small units tied to larger values?
7.1.
Political commissars but values focus
7.2.
Investment and Inclusiveness are good starting points to resist deviation
7.2.1.
Say more!
7.2.1.1.
The more you feel that belonging need being fulfilled less likely to deviate
1 planet 1 people 1 purpose knowing WHY
7.2.1.2.
People need to see their contributions, and that their place in the Big
Picture has meaning that they & the mission matter.
7.2.2.
The danger is they put belonging to their small unit (fire team) ahead of belonging to organization.
7.2.2.1.
Right. Hard to see how you get around that b/c unit cohesion.
7.2.2.2.
Oh IT's easy but hard to implement MAKE THE WORLD & People in it your UNIT
8.
Bartone mentions boredom as key to unethical behavior. Boredom (and stress) define deployments. What can leaders do to mitigate?
8.1.
We all do that's what the group is for to make a team complete
8.1.1.
Truth

8.1.2.
Green & Gold VERITAS IS my life's pursuit. Personal scientific philosophic
ALL that can be known studied, conjured ,thought
8.2.
You have to have a training plan in advance. I think it's hard to keep Marines amicably engaged with improvised tasks.
8.3.
Agreed. Keeps folks committed and connected to the mission.
8.4.
We had a variety of things planned to stay relevant and engaged
8.4.1.
Keeps folks committed and mitigates alienation.
8.5.
Emphasize your organization will be strong and enforce as much as possible within limitations.
9.
How do you maintain an ethical command climate when there's weakness in your higher commands?
9.1.
Get rid of high command
9.1.1.
Pretty sure that would send you to jail! Any other options?
9.1.1.1.
Only if you get caught
9.1.2.
By that I mean making it clear through proper chain or go to higher authority, not do a von Stauffenberg or leak to media
9.1.2.1.
This seems like a much better plan!
9.1.3.
Address the issue professionally or go one step higher and so on if you re ethically strong yourself.
9.1.3.1.
Reinforces integrity in your unit. Absolutely!
9.1.3.2.
Ethics and values gain it strength from the people s that accept/belief and practice it. Only then, it will shine.
9.1.3.3.
: The greatest mistake is to assume that the commander is unethical and will continue to be. People change!
9.1.3.3.1.
Hitler didn't
9.1.3.3.1.1.
We don't need to be throwing the Hitler card! Most people absolutely are capable of moral growth.
9.1.3.3.1.1.1.
True. Let it be a bad dream we want to forget.
9.1.3.3.1.1.2.
I disagree. We should face that history directly, but it was exceptional evil, not normal immorality.
9.1.3.3.1.1.3.
May be? How does it work? A moral boundary/cliff btw good and evil I guessed.
9.1.3.3.1.2.
Problem is the higher the level in power, less developed moral growth as everyone defer to you
9.1.3.3.1.3.
We'll talk about this at the end of the course; it's a very real concern. Overconfidence can breed unethical behavior
9.1.3.3.1.4.
In end my friend ask the question because he on last posting so no worries anyone get ticked off and he like that anyway
9.1.3.3.1.4.1.1.
Interesting Stereotyping. If only my ICRC friends could explain as they usually follow the steps I mentioned

9.1.3.3.1.4.2.
But you grew/developed as you got to a high position. And potentially changed some opinions along the way.
9.1.3.3.1.4.3.
That's called the 'Hierarchy of Rightness'!
9.1.3.3.2.
It has been my experience that such change is rare; but rarer still is recognizing that person has changed
9.1.3.3.3.
It’s not rare, I believe, but rather it goes unnoticed e.g. Arab
Springs, US Elections, and others. Have Hope and dreams.
9.1.3.4.
Change can happen if we re-create the environment for it.
9.1.3.4.1.
I prefer change by eliminating people causing the problem
9.1.3.5.
Most people are absolutely capable of moral growth.
9.1.3.5.1.
My experiences/observation in Malaysia indicates otherwise.
Problem is the higher the level in power, less developed moral growth as everyone defer to you. Case: P4 taking over Afghanistan, friend of mine there told me, “everyone wants to know who that woman is, but no one dares ask.”
9.1.3.6.
We'll talk about this at the end of the course; it's a very real concern.
Overconfidence can breed unethical behavior.
9.2.
Weakness as in lack of ethics? Or weak will?
9.2.1.
I was trying to be delicate, but either, really.
9.2.2.
Point out to those in your chain that the higher ups are examples of what not to do or be
9.2.2.1.
Have to be careful doing this. May accidentally endorse climate of insubordination.
9.2.3.
What is the weakness? Weakness in ethics? Weakness in physical strength?
Weakness in leadership? Weakness in weaponry?
9.2.3.1.
I was intentionally vague to spark the conversation.
9.2.3.2.
and in turn I have conversed.
9.2.4.
Assuming by weakness you mean lack of leadership, i.e. leading the way moral upright inspiring caring knowledgeable
9.2.5.
Depends if the perceived "weakness" originates from within the military hierarchy or from without in the civilian oversight
9.2.5.1.
Good point. I was assuming was military hierarchy, but you raise a good distinction.
9.2.5.2.
The two are intrinsically linked like Motivation and Emotion are IMO
9.2.5.3.
While linked IMO they are viewed as district and separate both by themselves and by the general public.
9.3.
The latter can be overcome by highlighting stronger moral character of military vs political operatives. Former much harder.
9.3.1.
Problem is compounded by the fact that political oversight can be capricious, as in the aftermath of 9/11

9.4.
If you perceive/ see unethical behaviour talk to someone you trust - test your conclusion
- command may have to.
9.4.1.
Yes Sir I have tried those options when necessary unfortunate that added to my trust issues, betrayal is hard to bear.
9.4.2.
I have experienced blown trust -recovery takes time. Sensitivity is key to trust what you feel and avoid/confront what you fear.
9.4.3.
Yes Sir I concur.