Faculty Council Forum on the Withdrawal Policy
April 8, 2011
CJI Auditorium
Attendees: Lisa Macon (Presiding), Suzette Dohany, jean Marie Fuhrman, John McFarland, Debra Hollister, Debra
Jacobs, Joyce Romano, Celica Cofield, Jocelyn Morales, Kristal Bell, Leann Hudson, Edwin Sanchez, Reyna Rangel,
Michele McArdle, Ruth Prather, Jane Wiese, Joe Bivins, Maryke Lee, Brian Macon, Marjorie McKillop, Linda Villar,
Daryl Davis, Tim Grogan, Deidre Holmes DuBois, Bill Mullowney, Karen Styles, Cheryl Robinson, Debbie Garrison,
John Niss, Barbara Frazier, Liza Schellpfeffer, Dan Dutkofski, Patrick Bartee, Kim Long, Dennis Hunchuck, Sean
Jennings, Jillian Szentmiklosi, Danielle Boileau, Della Paul, Carl Creasman Jr., Anna Saintil, Mike Bosley, Robert
McCaffrey, Susan Sloan, Ed Holmes, Kathy Suarez, Karen Cowden, Debbie Larew, Amy Bosley, Nichole Jackson,
Sandy Shugart, Falecia Williams, C. Lynn Pam, Wendy Givoglu, Michelle Foster, Gloria Hines, Myrna Villanueva,
Renee Simpson, Molly McIntire
Discussion 1: WP/WF
What is the value or benefit of not having WP/WF grades?
Answers (based on experience and observation):
 Fairness – the WP/WF grades were not used consistently
 May lead to lower withdrawal rates because WP was an easy way out
 Teaches students responsibility and accountability
 May prepare students better for four year institutions where WP/WF were not used and/or
recognized
 The WP/WF were confusing – one W grade is less confusing
 There have been reports of increased interaction between faculty and students about how
the W grade will affect them
 Students used to perceive the WP grade as simply a “do-over” button and a WF as a
failure. One W grade represents an administrative, not an academic, grade.
 Consistency with other institutions – most do not use WP/WF
 Easier to communicate to an outside audience (scholarship donors, etc)
 If there are fewer withdrawals, Valencia will have a safer standing with state and
financial aid
 W grades transfer more smoothly
 Avoids painful negotiations between faculty and students
 May inspire students to try harder to finish the course
 There have been reports that students are responding well to this change and
perseverance has improved (data not yet available to support this)
 Creates a consistent meaning for what a withdrawal is
What are the problems or risks or difficulties of not having the WP/WF grades?
Answers (based on experience and observation):
 There have been reports that students are communicating less often with faculty members
about withdrawal
 Students are more rash about withdrawing before the deadline and many more seem to be
asking to be “unwithdrawn”
 Students are more desperate to be given a passing grade since WP is not an option
 Faculty don’t always have clear withdrawal policies in their syllabi
 In classes with state exams, the WP grade helped the student who passed all his/her
classwork but failed the state exam.
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The WP grade made it easier to allow failing students to remain in class and practice for
the next time they take the class.
There is more “grade shopping” occurring, as students try to get the instructor or dean to
change their grade(s).
The instructor’s options are limited in several situations – for example
o Students with legitimate life issues
o Students can manipulate an attendance policy to get a W now, since there is no
more WF
Faculty have had a learning curve for how they incorporate the W into their grading
policy
There have been reports that students are more apt to withdraw when they may have
stayed when the WP was an option and ended up with a C or D – they feel the risk is too
high
Discussion 2: Students May Not Withdraw After the Withdrawal Deadline
What are the benefits of students not being able to withdraw themselves after the withdrawal
deadline?
Answers (based on experience and observation):
 Since they have to make withdrawal decisions earlier, this may make students more
attentive to the courser earlier in the term
 Students who know they are not going to make it can withdraw earlier and use their time
to concentrate on other pursuits
 Many of those who remain really commit and strive for a good grade
 This policy communicates high expectations
 Helps students learn the meaning of the word “deadline”
 May encourage more accountability on the part of the student
 May teach students to persevere
 May inspire students to self-reflect
What are the problems with students not being able to withdraw themselves after the withdrawal
deadline?
Answers (based on experience and observation):
 There is a hypotheses that this may grow the population of students on suspension and/or
probation
 This has been a large strain on the workloads of counselors and advisors
 May have eliminated undesirable behaviors, but did not necessarily replace them with
desirable behaviors
 Students with “life issues” after the withdrawal deadline can be penalized by this policy
 Forces faculty to weigh a students’ circumstances with maintaining fairness and
consistency in their course policies
 There are reports of more “I” grades as a solution
 There may be as many consistency problems as there were in the past because faculty
may not assign W grades following the withdrawal deadline consistently (this flexibility
for faculty was by design)
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Faculty have no “sample syllabi statements” to reference, so they are using trial and error
to create attendance policies
Discussion 3: Withdrawals by Faculty After Final Exam Period Began
History: There were over 1700 withdrawals in Atlas after the withdrawal deadline in Fall 2010,
representing approximately 8% of all withdrawal grades and 1.6% of all grades assigned. Over
470 faculty were responsible for entering these grades after what was supposed to be a final
withdrawal deadline for faculty.
Question: What happened?
Answers (based on experience):
 My student didn’t understand the new policy and had made choices based on the old
policy – I didn’t want to penalize him or her for this
 The grade being in the Final Grades drop-down list allows faculty to believe that they
may assign this grade
 There is confusion about when the final exam period begins – no clear final withdrawal
deadline, especially with so many parts of term – we need a published absolute deadline
date
 I recorded the grade in my gradebook, but entered all of my grades into Atlas at the end
of the term
 Habits are hard to break
 Students were not well-informed or well-educated on how the new policy would affect
them