On November 11, 2012 IPECC (Institut de Projeccio Exterior de la Cultura Catalana) presented the
award “Roca Batista” to John Dagenais, a “catalanophile”, Professor and Chair of the Department of
Spanish and Portuguese. Professor of Medieval Iberian Literatures and Cultures at UCLA.
When I asked John how he became interested in Catalan, his response was this;
My trajectory is somewhat different than that of many people in this country who end up 'doing'
Catalan: I went into Spanish studies in order to be able to do Catalan, I did not come to Catalan
through Spanish.
John, tell us about yourself, Where were you born, family, professional life….
I was born in Boulder, Colorado, where my parents were in grad school at the U of Colorado, they soon
moved to Wichita, Kansas, not far from where my mother's family had homesteaded in the 1860s. I
grew up in Kansas, then.
My field of specialization was in medieval Iberian literatures and cultures. I have taught at the
University of Michigan, Stanford and Duke as Visiting Professor and taught at Northwestern University in
Chicago before coming to UCLA.
Although 40 years ago, after my first visit to Catalonia and the discovery of its culture and language, and
the very few possibilities to learn the language in the US, I managed to exchange Catalan lessons with
some Catalan students studying Business at Kansas University. I also started studying Catalan literature
when I discovered a magnificent donation of Catalan books to the library of the university donated by
Professor Domingo Ricart.
Later I helped to put together a collection of Catalan tales by young writers published to the American
world and that later helped to promote the culture and language of Catalonia to a new generation of
American students. I translated anthologies and I have published many articles, studies and research
about Catalan Literature that I presented to different congresses; for example, the Modern Language
Association.
I helped to organize the first meeting of the North American Catalan Society ”discussion” at the
University of Illinois in 1978.
You are a professor of Catalan besides other languages at UCLA. When did your interest in the Catalan
language and culture begin, and where did you learn to speak such great Catalan?
>>I knew nothing about the Catalan language and culture, did not even know of its existence until I
made my first trip to Iberia in 1969. I arrived in Barcelona on a train from Paris. I can still remember the
moment when I first became aware of the Catalan language: I was in a park, probably Ciutadella and I
heard a grandfather talking to his little granddaughter in a language I could understand pretty well
based on my knowledge of French and Spanish, but which was neither language. I began to try to learn
about this language and was amazed that the knowledge of something so interesting and unique had
been so thoroughly suppressed, even in my college-level Spanish classes in the U.S.
A few months later I was reading (as college kids in the late 60s and early 70s were likely to do) a book
on oriental philosophy and mysticism. In the introduction, the translator cited some verses by Ramon
Llull in the original, perhaps from the Llibre d'Amic e Amat. There was that language again! Only now it
was not only a grandfather and granddaughter talking in a park: the language had a long history going
back to the Middle Ages and was used to express some of the same profound mystical thought that I
was reading among oriental philosophers. I was hooked. This must have been my destiny. I gave up on
oriental philosophy and started studying Catalan.
What levels of Catalan are taught at UCLA?
We teach Catalan 1 and Catalan 2 Núria Dordal, our lectora from the Institut Ramon Llull teaches these
courses and can give you a clearer idea of the linguistic levels of each class.
Last quarter I taught a course for upper division Spanish majors on "Modern Catalan Literature" (Span
170). It surveyed Catalan prose and poetry beginning with Aribau, and continuing through Foix,
Rodoreda, Espriu, Pla and others on down to Terenci Moix and Quim Monzó. I had around 30 students.
Because of the structure of the Spanish major, works were read in Spanish translation with side-by-side
Catalan originals in most cases.
I try to incorporate works in Catalan along with works in Castilian in my courses. Thus, in a history of
Peninsular literature from 1391-1521, students read excerpts or entire texts such as poetry by Jordi de
Sant Jordi and Ausias March, Tirant lo Blanc, Jaume Roig's Spill, the Història de Jacob Xalabin and others.
Also works from Jewish writers from Catalunya and Aragon, such as Crescas and Vidal ibn Labi
Benweniste.
In my graduate seminars on the chivalric novel we always read Tirant lo Blanc, in Castilian or English
translation for most students.
--I have also given graduate seminars on Ramon Llull, as well as seminars in which we read the poetry of
the Catalan troubadours writing in Occitan.
Now that our basic language courses in Catalan are firmly in place and more and more of our graduate
students are learning Catalan and incorporating Catalan authors and texts in their Ph.D. thesis research,
I hope soon to be able to offer more specialized seminars in Catalan, working with original texts.
For the past few years you have been organizing summer courses in Barcelona for American students.
Can you tell us about these courses? What do the students learn? What is the interest of the
students?
These are summer study abroad courses for, mostly, undergraduate students. They earn credit for two
courses, plus independent study credit if they wish. I have had two courses based in Barcelona over the
years.
The first was entitled "Troubadours, Crusaders and Heritics": It dealt with the cultures of Catalunya and
Southern France in the period of the 12th and 13th centuries, including the Albigensian Crusades. Half
of the course was based in Barcelona and the other half involved travel in Southern France to important
sites of troubadour literature and of the Albigensian crusades.
The second was a course entitled "Barcelona, the Story of a City, Its Art and Culture." This course had
two parts: One consisted of walking lectures with students, showing them the history of Barcelona in its
streets from Roman times down to today. The other involved a classroom setting with lectures by
faculty at the Universitat Pompeu Fabra and a study of Modernist art and architecture in particular. We
took field trips to Girona, Montserrat and to the Colonia Guell as part of the course.
Students go on these courses for a number of reasons: some think it is a good way to earn college credit.
The majority, though, are interested in Barcelona: they want to get to know this exciting city intimately.
Students come from many departments at UCLA, not just Spanish: Biology, Sociology, Political Science,
Art History, and History. We also have a number of students from other UC campuses or from other
universities such as Stanford. Students do group projects studying individual neighborhoods of
Barcelona in depth and write a final term paper on a research topic of their choice.
Inevitably, my students fall in love with Barcelona and want to go back. As many of them identify as
members of minorities or as immigrants or children of immigrants, they quickly understand the complex
situation of Catalan culture and language and many of their projects involve study of the changing face
of the city and the status of immigrants within Catalunya.
Just because of curiosity? How much do these courses cost?
Lately it's been $5500-$6000. This includes tuition and fees, housing and breakfast each morning and
field trips. Students pay for their own airfare.
Finally, we know how much you love Catalonia, its language and culture. Do you think that the
Catalan language is in any danger?
>>No, I don't think the Catalan language is in any danger. It has survived far worse situations than the
present one. It seems to me that the Catalan language is stronger each year I return to Barcelona.
Immigrants to Catalunya are learning the value of speaking Catalan and are making sure that their
children learn the language. I hardly spoke Castilian at all during my month in Barcelona last summer. It
just wasn't necessary to do so.
Catalan is a beautiful and important language. It has a long and rich literary and cultural tradition, on a
par with that of any of the 'national' languages of Europe. For circumstances known to all, its culture
and its literature are simply less known than those of other nations. But, especially since the Olympics,
this situation is changing and improving. Catalan language and culture are taught around the world and
people are more and more aware of the differences between "Spanish" and "Catalan."
Thank you very much for your contribution to Catalan language, literature and culture . You brought
Catalonia closer to the outside world.