Smooth Cu Signal Integrity
Minutes of Nov 5, 2013
(11:00 PM Central)
Project Lead: TBD
Project Facilitator:
John Davignon, HDP User Group Facilitator
Next Meeting Nov 19, 2014 at 11:00 PM Central time
Meeting Agenda:
Discuss the new project goals and objectives
Find a Project Leader
Meeting Attendees:
John Davignon
David Wice
Holle Galyon
Jim Fuller
Karl Sauter
Mahyar Vahabzadeh
Michael Freda
Joseph Smetana
John M. Lauffer
Harold Kleinfeltd
Scott Danko
Action Items:
Johnd to arrange another meeting on Nov 19th
Discussion Details:
This was the first meeting of the new Smooth Cu SI project. This project was generated by ideas from
our last two members meetings. It is well supported by our membership and has drawn interest from
outside HDPUG. We are developing the project Goal/Objectives/Drivers to present at the Dec 9-10
Members Meeting in Kawasaki, Japan.
The group discussed the 3 sections/parts of the proposals from the initial members meetings:
1. Evaluating the influence of smooth copper foil on Signal Integrity. This part was accepted as
the overall focus of the project. The other 2 sections will help to determine the points of
diminishing returns when it comes to copper smoothness. It has been proposed to use
Insertion Loss measurements as the baseline/determination value.
2. Evaluation/Characterization of the metrology and methodology of copper roughness
measurements below 2 microns. Lots of discussion on this section. There is a desire by some of
the group members to develop a “Universal Roughness Standard” that can be used to calibrate
and verify copper roughness across the industry. Presently all roughness “standards” are
internal/proprietary to the various measuring equipment/metrology and are valid for that
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Smooth Cu Signal Integrity
specific metrology system. There are several metrologies/systems for roughness measurement
but they do not seem to correlate well, especially at very low roughness levels. This proposal
was acknowledge by the group as needed but there is a large concern that waiting until a
“Standard” is developed and verified will delay the group starting on the third section. The
group decided that the greatest interest was in the surface treatment effects and should be
done first. The “Copper Roughness and variability due to PWB fabrication and various
chemistries” section was voted the most important and urgent of the 3 sections. To this point
the group decided to adopt one –two metrologies/system for roughness measurement that can
distinguish the fine levels of roughness and use these for the evaluation until a better system
can be developed. Scanning Confocal Microscope was one of the suggested metrologies (based
upon the inputs from Chris Katzko, TTM). The development of the “Universal Roughness
Standard” will be done in a separate phase either parallel or following the initial “Copper
Roughness and variability due to PWB fabrication and various chemistries” evaluation. NOTE:
There was concern with stepping on IPC committee toes with developing a new metrology or
standard which is something that we need to be sensitive about. But, approaching them as a
technical resource for doing the GR&R study on a metrology/standard is an option for further
3. Evaluation of the roughness and variability of processing smooth copper foil on both sides of
trace (not just the copper tooth of laminate). This section was voted the most important to
the group and the initial focus of the project. It has been proposed to incorporate both the
variability due to fabrication processes and the various etch/oxide chemistries in the
evaluation. This section will be developed in future project meetings.
We will continue to discuss project proposals that will compliment or add to the ones above as we
define this “Smooth Copper Signal Integrity” project during the next few meetings. We are developing
a strong project team so I do not foresee the Idea Phase taking very long. The Nov 19th meeting will be
the last of our meetings until the New Year 2015. I will set up bi-weekly meetings starting in January
2015 once we decide which day/time is best for these meetings.
Next Meeting Agenda: Nov 19th at 11:00 PM Central Time
Continue to gather project proposal ideas and work on the roughness and variability
evaluation (3rd section)
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