Daren Oakeson
Humanities 1100
Bar Conversation
Roman Catholic Bishop: Well my friends, I have always wanted to ask you what do you think
should be done to prepare for death due to you different thoughts on death. What do you two
think?
Epicurean: Well Bishop, while we as epicureans believe that Gods exist, we don’t believe that
they have any interest in what we do here in this life. We believe that we are normally like the
animals of nature that seek pleasure and try hard to avoid pain. That is why we live in the
moment and try our best to enjoy it with as much happiness as possible. We do this because at
any moment, we could die and our time here will be up. Our bodies then return to the cosmos
from which they came. By living, we Epicureans prepare for death.
Roman Catholic Bishop: That is very interesting my friend, but in thinking this way how do
you handle the death of one’s spouse or loved one?
Epicurean: Of course it would be extremely sad because he or she was the love of your life and
you would never see them again but don’t get me wrong, you have to keep living. There is no
time to waste. Your loved one’s time may be up and all those pleasures that they could enjoy are
over but you can’t let it ruin your time here. Our time is so short and you have to get in all the
good times you can.
Roman Catholic Bishop: I hear you talk a lot about these pleasures in life and wonder what
kind of things these are and if there are any boundaries?
Epicurean: Well as we know, we all have a conscience that leads to our choices during the day.
This conscience lets us know what is good and what is bad for us. Basically, if the choice we
made feels alright to our conscience then it will be good for us. These are our boundaries.
Obviously though, some of our decisions will be greater than others. Pleasures that I personally
like are watching movies, kissing, and those things that help me feel good inside. However other
people’s pleasures may be completely different.
Roman Catholic Bishop: Those are very notable thoughts, but I, as a Roman Catholic Bishop,
don’t believe that that is the right way to live a life, especially not the way to prepare for a death,
and even an afterlife. You said in the beginning that you believed in Gods or a God but that they
don’t care about what we do here on Earth. I know that that is false, because God gave us basic
rules that help us govern our lives. They are known as the 10 Commandments of God. These
commandments help us to be happy and live an honorable life as we prepare for death. There are
many pleasures in life that can be dangerous that may make us happy in the moment but leave us
devastated in the end. That is why we can’t follow our pleasures alone because we are a fallen
people, short of the glory of God and we must live in a way so that we may one day live in his
presence. Don’t you believe that?
Epicurean: Like I said already Bishop, I don’t believe a God or Gods really care about what we
do here and I don’t believe that we will make it to their status as beings.
Roman Catholic Bishop: Well my friend, I really think you should change your mind because
we are here for a purpose and we have been created in the image of our God. We must live in a
way in order to prepare ourselves to meet him in heaven or else we will be left to go to hell. In
the Catholic belief we believe we will live after this life and it depends on our actions now where
we will end up after. This is our only chance and we must use it the best we can. I really think
you should change your mind.
Tibetan Buddhist Lama: Bishop… I have some things to say that I think can help us clear up
how we should live our life to prepare for our death. Is it okay if I try?
Roman Catholic Bishop: Well of course, I wanted to hear from you too.
Tibetan Buddhist Lama: First of all, I think we need to understand what happens after we die.
When we die, all of our possessions, friends, family, and power are lost and we have to leave
everything behind. The thing that will help us most after our death is our spiritual
accomplishments by how we lived our lives here. Directly after our death, we have a few stages
or as we call them bardos that will help us determine where we are in our path to enlightenment.
In the first bardo, if we have prepared ourselves with meditation and good works in this life, we
will be able to call upon the Deity to help us but if not we won’t be ready for this stage. In the
second bardo, our persona will transform based on our desires and could prove to be traumatic
for some of us. Lastly, depending on our personality, we will accept or decline our new
incarnations for which we will be reincarnated into this physical world which we call Earth. So
the only thing that matters is our spiritual advancement. That is how we prepare for our death by
working on meditation and the work within religious activities.
Epicurean: So how does pleasure work within Tibetan Buddhism? Lama?
Tibetan Buddhist Lama: Pleasure does not work within Tibetan Buddhism because pleasure
plays upon the carnal welfare, when we as Tibetan Buddhists are more worried about the
spiritual welfare and advancement. Pleasure only will bring us pain in the end and we will only
find disappointment where we think we would find happiness. That is why I think my friend that
you need to alter what you believe because you will only find disappointment in the end if you
only seek after your pleasures in life. You need to work on your spiritual advancement so that
when you come back after your death, you will be in a desired incarnation.
Roman Catholic Bishop: So based on your belief in this cycle of life, how do you handle the
death of a spouse in Tibetan Buddhism?
Tibetan Buddhist Lama: In Tibetan Buddhism, we feel that there is death everywhere so we
are more prepared when death comes to a loved one. We help them as they move on into the
afterlife and pray that they will continue on in their spiritual development. Those relations, no
longer exist after death and we know that it is a process of a new birth and cycle which takes
away the bitterness of death.
Roman Catholic Bishop: Those are very interesting ideas Lama, but I have to disagree with
that. In Catholicism, we feel that we will be able to live with our loved ones again in heaven and
that we won’t keep coming back to this life through reincarnation. When our spouse dies, we
know that he or she is with God, being taken care of depending on if he or she did good works
here in this life. It helps us heal knowing this and we handle the death better knowing where
they have gone. We know that we will see them again someday. Those relationships as you
have said that don’t go on after death, truly do. As for the reincarnation, I don’t know that this is
true because we as Catholics know that Christ was resurrected and didn’t go through a
reincarnation. Why would we come back as animals or anything different when we only go
through this life once? Lama, I really think you should change your mind on this topic because
the scriptures talk about a resurrection and not a reincarnation.
Tibetan Buddhist Lama: I understand that you may have sacred writings about such things but
so do we. We have such things as your scriptures in Tibetan Buddhism that teach us about
reincarnation. We feel that it is correct and continue to follow their teachings. Those great
teachers of the past have reincarnated and continue to teach us about life today. That is why I
think you are wrong. How else do you think that Christ could teach you so much? He was a
great teacher that learned from his other lives and was teaching us so that we could reach his
level. That is why I think that you are wrong and that you and not I should change his or her
mind.
Roman Catholic Bishop: I will take it into consideration but I am not going to back down from
my beliefs. I truly do believe in them and know that I am doing the right thing to prepare for my
death and I know how to deal with my loved one’s deaths even better because of my beliefs.
Tibetan Buddhist Lama: I also believe a great deal in your beliefs. There is much good there
but I also feel that my way is the way to go and is the best method to prepare for your own death
and to handle the death of your loved ones.
Epicurean: Well now that you two are done I want to tell you why the both of you should
change your minds. How could anyone know what happens after death when no one has been
past death and came back that we know personally? Sure we have sacred writings but how do
we know they are true without proof. Who is to say that they come from some Deity? Anyone
could have written such things. In my way of life, you can just do what you feel is right and
what makes you happy until the day you die and you don’t have to worry about what happens
after. If there is something after, then there is something after but I am not going to waste my
life worrying about how things will be and live in the present. We should enjoy every moment
of this time that we have. Bishop, I really think you should think over your life and see what you
need to change to enjoy it even more because no one can know of the future. Lama, you should
also change your mind because you are missing so much with keeping yourself in. Live a little.
I know that you both will thank me in the end after you have lived a full life of fulfilling your
pleasures within it.
Roman Catholic Bishop: While it is intriguing to my mind I feel it would be damaging to my
soul. So I must decline and continue down my path working out my salvation through the things
that I feel to be true.
Tibetan Buddhist Lama: I agree with the Bishop, I don’t think that that way of life will help me
be happy and will only bring me unhappiness for the next life that I will live. So I must also
decline and continue down my true path to enlightenment.
Epicurean: Have it your way then but I think that my way to live and to prepare for death is the
better of the two. Though death may be harsh, it shouldn’t have to control us. We just need to
live like there is no tomorrow, everyday of our lives. Do all we can today for a better tomorrow.
Roman Catholic Bishop, Tibetan Buddhist Lama together: Agreed, lets get something to eat.