Using the 'Autodidact' Subject-Object Interview in
coaching
Flo van Diemen van Thor
Kegan's Orders of Mind
Stage
Embedded in
Stage 1: Impulsive Mind
Family
Stage 2: Imperial Mind
School and family
Stage 3: Socialised Mind
One-to-one reciprocal relationships
Stage 4: Self-Authoring Mind
Group involvement in career and/or public life
Stage 5: Self-Transforming Mind
Self-surrender to intimacy in love and work
Subject-object relations
Key Characteristics
Stage
Subject
Stage 1: Impulsive Mind
Object
Impulses, perceptions, social perceptions
Reflexes (sensory)
Point of view, enduring dispositions,
Impulses, perceptions, social
needs, preferences
perceptions
Stage 2: Imperial Mind
Abstractions, mutuality, inner states, self- Point of view, enduring
Stage 3: Socialised Mind
Stage 4: Self-Authoring Mind
consciousness
dispositions, needs, preferences
Relations between abstractions (abstract
Abstractions, mutuality, inner
system), multiple-role consciousness,
states, self-consciousness
self-regulation
Dialectical interpenetration of self and
Abstract system, multiple-role
other, inter-individuation
consciousness, self-regulation
Stage 5: Self-Transforming Mind
Stages and inbetween
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Five stages, of which three in adulthood
“Midzones” (Berger, 2012) or “disequilibrial
developmental positions” (Lahey et al., 2011) in
between
Kegan is most interested in the midzones –
this is where the movement is
Four positions between two stages – 21
positions in total
Stages and midzones - scoring
Stage 1 1(2) 1/2 2/1 2(1)
Stage 2 2(3) 2/3 3/2 3(2)
Stage 3 3(4) 3/4 4/3 4(3)
Stage 4 4(5) 4/5 5/4 5(4)
Stage 5
Why does this matter?
“the SOI offers a window into someone's
meaning-making system”
(Berger, 2012, p.50)
“a given system of meaning organises our
thinking, feeling and acting over a wide range
of human functioning”
(Kegan, 1980, p.374)
Part II
The project
The research question
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What does it take to master the SOI on your
own?
Can it be self-taught to an acceptable,
professional degree?
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How do we know we've reached that level?
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Ethics?
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What would be the benefits to coachee and
coach?
Implications for the profession
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Is the autodidact SOI (ASOI) acceptable as a
psychometric?
What would it add to a coach's practice?
On ethics: how is inviting a client to do the
ASOI different from doing the MBTI for ex.?
How to contract on it? When to do the ASOI?
Can the ASOI be considered an assessment at
all?
Methodology: Heuristic Inquiry
Concepts and processes:
Identify with the focus of the inquiry
Self-dialogue
Tacit Knowing
Intuition
Indwelling
Focussing
Internal Frame of Reference
(adapted from Hiles, 2002)
Data generation, collection and analysis
Initial Engagement: discovery of the research question
Immersion: intense engagement with the question
Incubation: withdrawal and detachment from intense engagement with the question
Illumination: new insights emerge through tacit knowing as a result of detachment
Explication: bringing new insights into consciousness and reflection
Creative Synthesis: integration of data, resulting in new insights and knowledge
Validation of the heuristic research by checking meaning and sharing with others
(Hiles, 2002)
Participants
Coachees
Bill
Ted
Sally
Alex
Lewis
Age, gender
34, male
30, Male
50s, female
48, female
46, male
Managerial level
Mid-level
Junior level
Senior level
Senior level
Mid-level
Coaching ‘status’
‘Coaching-on-the-job’
‘Coaching-on-the-job’
Pre-coaching
Pre-coaching
Post coaching
Coaches
Diane
Emma
Andy
Age, gender
43, female
43, female
50, male
Coach type
Executive coach
Lead coach; supervisor
Developmental coach
Internal/external
External
Internal
Internal
ASOI - words
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Angry
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Strong Stand
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Sad
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Torn
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Anxious/Nervous
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Moved/Touched
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Success
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Lost Something
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Important to me
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Change
Mini-guide to the ASOI (1)
‘Big Five’:
Authority
Conflict
Responsibility
Perspective taking
Assumptions about the world
(Adapted from Berger, 2012)
Mini-guide to the ASOI (2)
ASOI 'Four Steps‘
Step 1: identify a Big Five theme
Step 2: ask questions to formulate a hypothesis
Step 3: move to the upper edge
Step 4: ask the same question in a different way
(Adapted from Berger, 2012)
Mini-guide to the ASOI (3)
ASOI Analysis 'Three Steps‘
Step 1: What structural evidence leads to these hypotheses?
Step 2: What would narrow the range of plausible hypotheses?
Step 3: On what grounds are plausible counter-hypotheses rejected?
Part III
Findings
Findings
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No participants were harmed during the
research...
... in fact, consistent with the literature they
said they enjoyed the experience
'cathartic'
'questions coming from the left field'
'I enjoyed the surprises I got along the way'
Concerns from co-participants
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This is a psychometric assessment – you need
to make that clear beforehand
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This will influence participants' perception of it
Could 'get to the nub of things so quickly it
almost becomes raw'
Its non-directive appearance is can be
misleading – the interviewer has an agenda
Ultimately the assessment passes judgment
Themes for coaching
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Timing the ASOI in the intervention itself
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Contracting
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Treat it as a psychometric: without the feedback it
remains a nice, possibly cathartic conversation
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Which coachee benefits?
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Coach duty of care
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Coach-coachee relationship both helps and hinders
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SOI does not feature in the mainstream coaching toolbox
Part IV
A model
Using the ASOI in coaching
'Live' ASOI
‘Big Five’
Range of hypotheses Notes
Socialised
Self-Authoring
Self-Transforming
Authority
Conflict
Perspective-taking
Responsibility
Assumptions
1. What is the structural evidence?
2. What other stage could it be?
3. What is the most likely stage?
Thank you!
Q&A
Floortje.vandiemen@gmail.com
Selected references
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Berger, J. G. and Atkins, P. (2009) ‘Mapping complexity of mind: using the subject-Object interview in coaching’. In: Coaching:
an International Journal of Theory, Research and Practice, Vol. 2 No. 1 pp.26-36.
Berger, J.G. (2010) 'Using the Subject-Object Interview to Promote and Assess Self-Authorship' In: Baxter Magolda, M.B.,
Creamer, E.G. and Meszaros, P.S. (eds.) Refining Understanding of the Development and Assessment of Self-Authorship.
Exploring the concept across cultures. Sterling, VA: Stylus.
Berger, J. G. (2012) Changing on the Job. Developing Leaders for a Complex World. Stanford: Stanford University Press.
Kegan, R. (1980) 'Making Meaning: The Constructive-Developmental Approach to Persons and Practice'. The Personnel and
Guidance Journal, Vol. 58, No. 5, pp.373-380
Kegan, R. (1982) The evolving self: problem and process in human development. Cambridge, Mass.: Harvard University
Press
Kegan, R. (1994) In over our heads. The mental demands of modern life. Cambridge, Mass.: Harvard University Press.
Kegan, R. (2013a) ‘The Further Reaches of Adult Development: Thoughts on the ‘Self-Transforming’ Mind’. Lecture at the
Royal Society for the encouragement of Arts, Manufactures and Commerce, London, 23rd May 2013. Audio podcast:
http://www.thersa.org/events/audio-and-past-events/2013/the-further-reaches-of-adult-development-thoughts-on-the-selftransforming-mind [accessed 13th September 2013]
Lahey, L; Souvaine, E; Kegan, R; Goodman, R and Felix, S, (2011) A guide to the subject-object interview. Its administration
and interpretation. Cambridge Massachusetts: Minds at Work Press