CCs Apologetics
Find Out Friday
What about Silent Women?
Can Women be Pastors?
Silent Women?
• Some Texts:
– 1 Timothy 2:8-15
– 1 Corinthians 14:33-35
Compare and Contrast
8 I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting
holy hands without anger or quarreling; 9 likewise also that
women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with
modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or
pearls or costly attire, 10 but with what is proper for women
who profess godliness—with good works. 11 Let a woman learn
quietly with all submissiveness. 12 I do not permit a woman to
teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to
remain quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve; 14 and
Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and
became a transgressor. 15 Yet she will be saved through
childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness,
with self-control.
Compare and Contrast
8 I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting
holy hands without anger or quarreling; 9 likewise also that
women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with
modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or
pearls or costly attire, 10 but with what is proper for women
who profess godliness—with good works. 11 Let a woman learn
quietly with all submissiveness. 12 I do not permit a
woman to teach or to exercise authority over a
man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 13 For Adam was formed
first, then Eve; 14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman
was deceived and became a transgressor. 15 Yet she will be
saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love
and holiness, with self-control.
Compare and Contrast
• As in all the churches of the saints,
34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For
they are not permitted to speak, but should be in
submission, as the Law also says. 35 If there is
anything they desire to learn, let them ask their
husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to
speak in church.
Compare and Contrast
• As in all the churches of the saints,
34 the women should keep silent in the churches. For
they are not permitted to speak, but should be in
submission, as the Law also says. 35 If there is
anything they desire to learn, let them ask their
husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to
speak in church.
WOMEN AS PASTORS? . . .
OK . . .
• Up Front stuff
– This is often a volatile issue
– This can be an impassioned discussion
• Answer, with qualifier
– So there is an answer + a qualifier
• Rules
– I will give the answer, but not the qualifier
– Let me give the information, then the qualifier, then
the debate
– Questions are allowed during the lecture, but not
debating – that must wait until after the information
Can women be Pastors?
Well, it is better stated
“should” because there are
clearly women serving as
pastors right now . . .
Anyhow –
No, not __(qualifier)__
CCS SysTheo
Men and Women in the Home and
the Church
What is normal?
• 12 But I do not allow a
woman to teach or
exercise authority over
a man, but to remain
quiet.
• 1 Tim 2:12
• An email . . .
An email . . .
• In response to women preachers and woman being leaders of
men, there is not an official position on this issue by our
church. I'll keep this brief: The current agreement for TNC on
these, sometimes difficult, issues is that we don't promote
women to permanent positions of leadership (i.e. senior
pastor, elder). We do want to always empower woman to
follow God's calling in their lives. And we do value enough
the work of God in the life of women, and their insights into
the Scriptures and their personal experiences, to on occasion
invite woman to share on a Sunday morning.
To be clear . . . this issue
• Is Not about:
– Intelligence
– Value
– Ability
• Is about Roles
– Men have a role
– Women have a role
So . . . What about Men and Women
Is there a difference?
ABSOLUTELY!
What are the differences?
• Ontologically (Genesis 2:7, 2:21-23)
• Sexes
• Physiologically
Separately, Material (Genesis 2:4-25; 1 Cor. 11:8)
• Roles in parenting (1 Thess. 2:7-12)
• Roles: Home & Church (1 Cor. 11:1-10; Eph. 5:21-33;
1 Tim. 2: 9-15, 5:8,14; 2 Tim. 1:3-5; Titus 2:1-8; 1
Peter 3:1-7)
Are there commonalities?
ABSOLUTELY!
What are the Commonalities?
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
Creatures (Genesis 1:27)
Image of God (Genesis 1:26)
Human (Genesis 1:26-27)
Sinners (Romans 3:23)
Savior (Gal. 3:28; 1 Peter 3:7c)
Body of Christ (Eph. 4:1-6)
Men and Women need each other (1 Cor. 7:4, 11:1112)
A Theology of Roles
Let’s look at some texts
A Theology of Roles
• The Creation
– GENESIS 1-2
• The EQUALITY
– GENESIS 1:26-31
– GALATIANS 3:23-29
• The COMPLIMENTATION
– GENESIS 2:18-25
– 1 CORINTHIANS 11:3
What’s the Difference?
Equality
• In humanity
• Essence
• Sinfulness (Gen. 3)
• Need
• Position before
God
• Intellect
Distinction
• Roles
–
–
–
–
–
Fathers
Mothers (Mad about You)
Physiology
Drive
Focus
• “Son, run and get me those
scissors.”
• “Don’t run with scissors!”
• “Run headlong into danger
and risk it all.” “Ok”
This is a Trinitarian Thing
Roles in the Trinity
• The Father is the Authority
• The Son proceeds from (obeys) the Father
• The Spirit proceeds from (obeys) the Father
and the Son*
– John 5:30
– John 8:42
– John 15:26
• A Western Church Concept. In Eastern Church Only 2
Roles.
Roles Fleshed out Some More
•
•
•
•
•
1 Corinthians 7
Ephesians 5:22-33
1 Timothy 2:9-15
Titus 2
1 Peter 3:1-7
Some Challenges
• 1 Tim. 2:9-15
• Opponents say:
– Contextually applicable
only
– Difficult passage
– Antiquity
• 1 Cor. 11:3
• Opponents say:
– “head” means source of
Roles in Marriage
So, generally . . .
• In the Text, the genders are always distinct
• These roles and distinctions are very important,
for they are an extension of the Trinity
• This is likened, then unto the Church and the
government therein
• These “pictures” of the Trinity are defined by the
Trinity and then help define the Trinity, visually,
for us – namely that since there are roles in the
Trinity, there are roles in His creation, specifically
man that bears His image
CCS SysTheo
Men and Women in the Home and
the Church
The Next Step
The Pastor
A Pastoral Theology
• Elder/Pastor/Overseer
– 1 Timothy 3:1-7
– Titus 1:5-9
– 1 Peter 5:1-5
• Distinctly Men in Qualification
– Husband of one Wife
– Able to manage Household
– “ . . . But if a man . . . he . . . “
What about . . ?
• Deborah?
– Judgment to Israel (Judges 4:1)
– Shaming (Judges 4:9)
• Phoebe
– Just the word diakonai = servant
– Otherwise, why “gunae” in 1 Timothy 3?
• Priscilla
– With her husband
– A Stretch
So . . .
NO, NOT BIBLICALLY
CCs Apologetics
Find Out Friday #13
Can Women be Pastors?