Interview 2
INTERVIEWER: Alright. So, um, I guess, just, first, if you could tell me how you learned first
about limu and limu gathering.
LIMU GATHERER 2: Um, my grandparents and my parents.
INV: Mhm.
LG2: We always used to go, – Certain stuff we used to pick up for, like, parties. Special
occasions. Say, would I eat – We’re going to get what we like. Not take more, but just take
what we like. Just enough.
INV: Mhm.
LG2: That’s pretty much it.
INV: Your grandparents – So your parents and your grandparents.
LG2: Yeah.
INV: Both would gather. And if you were to go, who would you go with, as a family event,
altog – Like, everyone together, or . . ?
LG2: Not – Sometimes it’s like a family event but we really don’t take that much. Don’t need
that much. It’s only like, one or two people. Sometimes just one.
INV: Mhm.
LG2: So, if I feel like eating it, and need no more, I will pick up, say, a handful and bring it
back home. That’s all.
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INV: Okay. Um, when was the last time that you gathered limu?
LG2: Oh, let’s see . . . My nephew’s party was this last Saturday, so about a week ago.
INV: Okay. Okay, um, and which, um, what are the names of the different types that you
gather?
LG2: Most of the time, we just take the, um, limu kohu.
INV: Mhm. Mhm.
LG2: Cause pretty much all the other ones is high in iodine taste so I really don’t care for it. I
prefer limu kohu.
INV: You prefer the taste of that one? Okay.
LG2: Yeah, or, um, the ogo. You can buy ogo from a store, but . . .
INV: So you can either buy it or gather it.
LG2: The ogo, yeah.
INV: The ogo. Okay. So those are the two ones that you mainly gather. And so, um, which
parts of the island, if – if you don’t mind – You don’t have to tell me, of course, where,
exactly, but – which parts of the island would you, would you go to gather?
LG2: Most of the time, only stay this side. All on this side.
INV: Mhm.
LG2: I live this side, so everything this side.
INV: Ok. So, mostly because of convenience, then?
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LG2: Yeah.
INV: Yeah.
LG2: And, plus, I know the grounds, where they stay. So it’s easier on me gathering here
than me going this side of the island and gathering. I don’t know what – Where they stay.
INV: Familiarity.
LG2: Yeah.
INV: Um, and I forget from the survey before, with your daughter, do you – and you grew up
in the, on the leeward side?
LG2: Yeah. Wainae side.
INV: Yeah. Okay. So here. Okay. Are there any – Have you noticed any change in the
abundance of the kohu?
LG2: Yeah. They’re less.
INV: When did – When did it start to decline?
LG2: Oh, years ago. Real, real bad. Honestly, when I’m thirty, thirty-eight, so probably about
twenty years ago.
INV: Mhm.
LG2: It started going down already.
INV: And what was the cause of the decline?
LG2: Not that. I think it was people over-picking.
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INV: Okay.
LG2: Some people just decided to pick to sell it. For money. It’s just very bad. Now it’s –
Before you have, like, large sections of reef with limu kohu on top. Now you only have little
patches where they sit. So you only can take so much from this patch, go to the next one.
So, from walking to, like, one area, picking what you want, then and there, and you gotta
walk almost the whole reef and just find little patches that you can pick from. I like them long
and bushy, some people, just because they see them, they pull ‘em and they only can grow
small. The young – not ready for pull.
INV: Okay.
LG2: So it’s just hard.
INV: So what is the reason that you wait for it to be longer before you would pick it?
LG2: Because it’s longer, you don’t got to pick as much.
INV: Hmm!
LG2: You – Only small, you end up picking more, because they too short.
INV: Okay. Is there any way you can predict by looking at the kohu what its taste would be
like?
LG2: Yeah, there’s colors. There’s a dark purple, there’s a light green.
INV: Mhm.
LG2: So then the – It’s like, seasonal too. Like, the darker the purple give it better taste.
Like, the green, not too much of a taste.
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INV: Okay. And so, once you arrive at the site where you’re going to pick, say, kohu, then
can you tell me – Walk me through the steps of what you’d have to do, like, from there.
LG2: First, you just go over there, you check waves, make sure no, no more big surf, so you
can go on the reef. You can check the tide – low tide is easier, cause no water not covering
over everything. But it’s good with a little bit of water washing on and off the reef so you can
see the limu kohu – But if not enough water on the reef, the kohu just stay lying flat. So, you
need to carry the towel, just there. That’s pretty much it. You go over there, you pluck them
off, instead of pulling it all out, just pluck a little at a time.
INV: Mhm.
LG2: Until you get enough, and that’s all.
INV: Okay, and then once you return home, would you be the one to cook that, or would
some –
LG2: Um –
INV: Someone else?
LG2: You don’t cook it.
INV: Oh. Can you describe to me how you use it?
LG2: You just – You take it home, put it in fresh water, clean it out, make sure no more sand
or any other limu seed pluck off with it. Clean it out – Just make sure it’s all cleaned out.
Make sure no more little shrimps nestling in it –
INV: Mhm.
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LG2: Come out too. Just, just rinse it out, make it nice and clean. Separate it, you see, you
get the rubbish limu seeds stuck with them and you pluck, you know. You take out all the
good ones. Then you pack ‘em up, put them in the freezer, they’re ready for serve. You just
shave ‘em off, put ‘em with your raw fish.
INV: Okay. And, so , why would you use it – Is it – How does it affect the body, eating the
kohu?
LG2: It, um – I guess, I guess it cleans it out. Just tastes good. You get a little bit iodine
taste. Not as much as the, the brown one. I think you get in the –
INV: Oh –
LG2: The kala limu.
INV: Yeah.
LG2: I think it is.
INV: Oh, the kala? I don’t know if I have some of that one. I think I tried to get some. Yeah I
went –
LG2: Nah, that’s kohu.
INV: I went to –
LG2: I mean, that’s ogo. That one.
INV: That’s the kala?
LG2: That’s something like the kala leo – limu. This one – oh no, this not . . .
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INV: This not . . ? It looks kinda like it though.
LG2: Something that’s . . .
INV: Okay. I just grabbed some things today from Waikiki. So . . .
LG2: Yeah. It was something – something like that. But there more of a leaf, longer leaf.
INV: The kala?
LG2: Yeah.
INV: Ok, so, the kala, then, is also, uh, one that you eat?
LG2: I choose not to, but if I can’t find kohu, we put some inside.
INV: Mhm.
LG2: It’s more of a crunchy taste. Uh, it’s more crunchy. And a re – Real, real high iodine
taste.
INV: Okay. So when you’re here to, to gather, what are some of the different kinds you see,
apart from the kohu, which you choose because you like the taste. What are the other kinds
that you commonly see?
LG2: See, I don’t even know most of the names of them.
INV: Oh, okay. So, so –
LG2: Like, I know I get kala limu but I use that mostly for catch fish.
INV: Yeah.
LG2: Catch kala, uhu, wutum.
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INV: So the kala is also used for bait for fishing.
LG2: Yeah.
INV: Okay. Yeah. Okay, so, um, I’m gonna show you, then, a couple pictures or, uh, samples
and you can just tell me if you recognize it, if you recognize that one or not, and if you – if
it’s one that you got there. So, how about for this one?
LG2: Oh, that’s that pencil one or finger one. Yeah, you plant that and you have a leech.
Make them something like the ogo, make it with vinegar shoyu, that’s good for you too.
INV: Okay. But that’s not one you choose to gather?
LG2: Nah, I –
INV: Okay.
LG2: I really don’t. I prefer ogo or tran.
INV: And when you say ogo, which one is – let me see if that – Would it be like –
LG2: Like this.
INV: That one, there.
LG2: I don’t – Something like this or down in the bag.
INV: Yeah, cause this one I bought, but
LG2: Yeah.
INV: Something like that.
LG2: Yeah. You got the finer here, and the thicker ones, too.
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INV: Okay. Um, okay. How about this one here? The, they say, um . . .
LG2: You bought that?
INV: Yeah.
LG2: From where?
INV: Okay.
LG2: This look like kala limu.
INV: This is what they said at – It’s, uh, Tamashiro. Well, I got this one, too.
LG2: They sell you a whole branch?
INV: They sell the kohu also. But that’s kind of old.
LG2: Mmm. I guess, yeah, this is like the kala limu, but – See, these are real – The hair is
real thin. Pencil-y. Real small. You like them, the leash, to be real fat, like your finger.
INV: Yeah. That’s kind of thinner.
LG2: Yeah. It’s almost the same thing.
INV: They sell this whole thing – How much was it . . . Yeah. For five dollars.
LG2: Gee, you could’ve gone to a beach and picked it yourself. Next time you need a kala,
I’ll go – What’re you paying him five bucks for?
INV Laughs
INV: Well, have you seen on Craigslist, they sell the limu?
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LG2: No.
INV: Well, someone on Craigslist, who has been selling limu, so . . . Forty dollars for a
gallon? Of kohu? This one, to me, smells so strong.
LG2: Kohu.
INV: Yeah.
LG2: Yeah. It’s got a stronger smell.
INV: Mhm.
LG2: Yup. It’s good, though.
INV: Yeah.
LG2: Well, see, you don’t put the whole thing in like that. Most people freeze it and put it into
a ball. Shave it. And you get, you get the taste of the limu. Not a whole big leaf. Like,
branches on it. The, shave it down. Makes it – Makes the limu last longer, stretches it.
INV: Yeah.
LG2: And you don’t kill the place of the food.
INV: I see. Okay. Um, so, mostly, you said, if – if you – The kohu has declined. Have you
noticed any change in abundance of any other types of the limu over time? I’m wondering if
they – If all declined, or it’s just the kohu, or – If you haven’t noticed for the other ones –
LG2: Well –
INV: Maybe –
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LG2: Like, um, kala, they’re seasonal to us. Like every, say, other year, they are planting,
and then they all die off. Then you gotta wait, (?)they all should grow back(?). So it’s, that
one’s still abundant out. But there’s another one, something like it, but they have balls, little
balls on it.
INV: Oh, yeah, the – I know what you mean. There’s like, uh, I think I got a picture of –
Yeah, the – It looks different. I was wondering – I wondered if that was the kala, because it
has –
LG2: Yeah, something like it, but it’s not it.
INV: Like air bubbles on it.
LG2: Yeah.
INV: Air sacs. Like, its little mumbles.
LG2: Thing down, yeah. Yeah, it has little balls. It’s not the kala limu, but you see the little
balls.
INV: Mhm. Exactly.
LG2: But it’s some – It’s something close to it, but you just look on it and you see those
balls, it’s not it.
INV: So, these are some of the other ones that, um, I don’t know if we can look at them.
There’s a woman, um, Isabelle Abbott, she was a – she passed away this year, but she was
a professor and she was Hawaiian and she studied the limu.
LG2: Mhm.
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INV: And she had published a book and, uh, it just talked about the different seaweeds and
these are some of the ones she had in her book, so this is her book that she did on limu and
she talks about a couple different ones that she says, “This is the ones that Hawaiians had
used for food or medicine”.
LG2: Mhm.
INV: So, I brought a couple – There’s – Oh, there’s the kohu
LG2: Ah, this one?
INV: I think that one there. So . . . I don’t know if you have noticed if you have gathered any
other ones or if you’ve noticed any – Any of these and change in abundance of any of these
ones. But . . .
LG2: No, some type of these, I think, the, like this cabbage one is –
INV: Uh huh.
LG2: I don’t see them as much anymore.
INV: Mhm.
LG2: So, before, these, there’s plenty of them. I don’t see those much. I think they’re more
like, closer to brackish water areas. I don’t see them all excited in the salt water. I never did
see this one.
INV: Oh, you’ve never seen that one?
LG2: No.
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INV: I think I finally saw this one the other day at Makapu’u. I was snorkeling over there. I
hadn’t found it before.
LG2: See, this is something like the kala limu. See how long these are? But these are just
the leaves sticking out, you know, like the branch would be coming out. And they all get big,
long pieces like this. I like them for bait. Good fish chow.
Both chuckle.
LG2: Yeah, and this one, I rarely see these.
INV: Mhm.
LG2: We don’t have that mushroom one. The one that look like, um . . . You can see that all
over the reef. Certain areas, they grow a nice lawn.
INV: That one, maybe that’s not a very good picture, maybe that’s a better picture. Here, use
that one. Maybe it’s – Not right. Let’s see, this one right here.
LG2: Oh, check out that one. Right here.
INV: Oh, that’s the, that’s the kala, better picture, okay.
LG2: Yeah.
INV: Hmm. Okay. Oh yeah, here. That might be a better picture.
LG2: Hmm.
INV: Not really?
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LG2: Not really. This is angel hair ogo. Looks like the (?)Climbing Apple(?)beach, we used
to go over and pick that before. Not so many people likes it. It’s a hard work to clean it.
‘Cause they, they come growing – They always growing in sand. So, you don’t want to get it
inside, right? Sand. So, it’s hard to clean.
INV: A lot of effort to get it out.
LG2: Mostly all of it is a lot of effort to clean, but some source of – You just stick them in the
fresh water, shake, shake, shake, bring them out, can them up, put them to the side. This
one, shake, shake, shake, you’re sticking all the sand inside.
INV: So is the kohu a harder or easier one to clean compared to the others.
LG2: It’s an easy one.
INV: Ripping noises muffle words – to be preferred? Thank you. So, how does the fresh
water affect the algae, or the limu?
LG2: Some places, the – The fresh water and inamona, ala, regular lulu is supposed to be
running there. You get only, like, green algae or moss that you see from the fresh water.
That’s what you see over there, only. You don’t see limu. That’s where the fresh water
always stay. Like running or something. So, it’s hard.
INV: Are you concerned about, um, the, any pollution in the ocean?
LG2: Mmm, not really. I don’t – I don’t know. ‘Cause, when I say know too much problems,
uh – So, for me, I’m going basing off of where I live, we don’t have that much problems. We
don’t have big boats coming in our harbors carrying oil and stuff like that. Or any shoreline
breaking waianae, so it’s not really a problem.
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INV: Mhm. Okay. So, would you like to see, like, more of the youth gathering the limu? Is
that something that you would care about?
LG2: I wouldn’t mind them learning the culture and learning how to, um, do it, but you – it’s
like teaching – so you go to a class and you try to teach them and you start taking these
people over there to do it from what you just have and you try to grow back, they gonna wipe
them out themself, just trying to learn. So, it’s better if, say, a family member teaches it,
certain person, sorry. You always get them in your family so it always carry on. So, like, all of
my family, everything we do, from Hawaiian style. One member learns it. And whoever else
might learn, you learn. Ok. Not so many people can catch on to it, so, they don’t learn. But if
you start teaching it in a class, then everybody gonna try learn, then we’re gonna get bare
beaches, not gonna have limu for the fish for eat, stuff die ‘cause everybody gonna be
picking this, “Oh, I wonder if this is what my teacher was telling me about.”
INV: Mhm.
LG2: So, in a way, no I don’t. I don’t want –
INV: Mhm.
LG2: – the younger generation to learn. In a family way, say, one or two, they decide, then
yeah. But, say, a class of thirty students? No.
INV: Mhm.
LG2: I choose not.
INV: Cause they could go out to the ocean and have a negative impact, just –
LG2: Yeah.
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INV: – out there, grabbing stuff.
LG2: Yeah.
INV: And then it’s not there.
LG2: See, like, my family – We have a very big family. So, all of us, we have our own
certain stuff that we do. Like, half of my family go up in the mountain, hunt, um, ti leaf and
stuff like that for the parties, the other half go to the ocean. So we all get our own stuff, we
know what to do when we come to parties. For me, I’m too fat for climb the mountains, so I’m
goin’ dat way.
Both laugh.
LG2: So, I teach how to dive for squid, I pick limu, use everything on the rock, on the island,
malama ‘aina, for what you can use to catch the fish. Instead of always relying on, “Gotta go
to the store, gotta go buy this, gotta go buy that.”
INV: Do you ever have problems with access to areas you’d like to go?
LG2: Nah.
INV: It’s open.
LG2: Only Hanauma Bay. Chance!
Both laugh.
LG2: I have no problems in any case.
INV: Hanauma Bay, yeah, it’s protected.
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LG2: Yeah. But, outside that, nah.
INV: It’s got good snorkeling though, there.
LG2: No, it’s not. It’s boring.
INV chuckles.
LG2: Seeing a bunch of big fishes swimming toward you, you’ll be like, “Holy hell, where my
Speedo?”
INV laughs.
INV: Yeah, I think they’ve let people in really early in the morning. I mean, maybe just to go
swimming, though.
LG2: Yeah.
INV: Not really for fishing. Okay, well, yeah –
LG2: This is too like, for us guys, we teach every, um, see, us guys, we teach every
generation – We try to teach the boys what for – Wind interference – some catch it, some
don’t. So they go and see the uncle and they go time them out there. Like, how for, pick up ti
leaf, pick up anything they need, like, the haha – Wind interference – So, they go over there,
do that, it’s different. I can buy for squid, no problem, I can see them for me, probably like
the fence away. So, the kids, they gotta learn. We teach them that. Some cannot go down,
so some, they don’t like go down, so they go that-a-way. Everybody get their choice. They
like that.
INV: I see. Okay. I guess that’s pretty good for me, for my questions. Um.
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LG2: Okay.
INV: Yeah! I think I’ll just check if I have anything else, um, well I guess one thing – Have
you noticed any difference between any sites in terms of the taste of the limu or the kohu, for
example? Would it be different from one place to another?
LG2: Oh, yeah. Most of the places, like – I’m from here.
INV: Yeah.
LG2: I have family, say, like, Waimanalo side.
INV: Uh huh. Where are we here, Waimanalo?
LG2: No, here, here. So, the fish, the limu and stuff, it’s way different than the fish and limu
and stuff here.
INV: Oh. Okay.
LG2: Even the people from here say it does.
INV: Okay.
LG2: A fish from here get better taste than a fish over here. I don’t know why, ‘cause I barely
go over there, go dive. But they say, “The fish over here, you gotta taste.”
INV: Do you think it’s from eating the limu?
LG2: Some say it is.
INV: Hmm. Cause I get the –
LG2: You should taste over here and over here.
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INV: Oh, okay. And the same for the limu?
LG2: Yeah.
INV: Hmm. Have you tried the limu here?
LG2: Yeah. I have family over there. Eat on this. Eh, like you said, different taste.
Both laugh.
INV: If you could see more of a certain, like, more of certain types of limu you would like,
which ones would you like to see more of available?
LG2: For on the reef or in the stores?
INV: In the reef.
LG2: Sweet. Say, kohu, the, um, pretty much like the whole, hmm. This one? ‘Cause the
other one, like I said, like, the kala limu get planted, always, all over the reef. The kala limu
for that, so, always get that. That’s pretty much the ones I eat, but, I don’t see down too
much.
INV: I got this from Diamondhead area this morning. I don’t know –
LG2: See, you should go waihinae, come down this side and go dive and go look.
INV: Yeah, I’m gonna come and see what I can find over here.
LG2: There’s plenty of areas over here, but it’s – The only reason it’s hard for go diving, only
if you stay, like, you know somebody from this side? It’s easier. Plenty theives, waihinae.
Laughs. They always breaking into people’s car. So . . .
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INV: Yeah, I don’t prefer to go to the ocean too much by myself, but, um, sometimes it’s hard
to get someone to come all the way from University out here, so – Usually when I come out
here, it’s more for going to the school or talking to people.
LG2: See, get a hold of my daughter, she take you out there. On Waihinae side.
INV: Alright.
LG2: She only live on this side.
INV laughs.
INV: Yeah, what is she up to this summer, besides the softball?
LG2: Softball, softball, softball! Sorry.
INV: Yeah.
LG2: That’s all I get her doing. I like her. She only get one more year. All of her
(?)chayon(?) scholarships for softball. So I can get her out of here.
INV: Oh, you want her to go where?
LG2: Anywhere she wants, besides anyplace on this island. Laughs.
INV: Like another island?
LG2: Uh-uh. I like her go the mainland. I don’t like her stay here. Too close for – To be
home.
INV: Yeah, maybe she’ll come back after, couple years of college though.
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LG2: Hopefully shays – Stays up there for her years of college. Not only stay, like, for one
quarter until, “Dad, I’m a quitter” and then come home.
INV: It gets hard for people coming from Hawai’i out to the mainland sometimes. It’s just so
different.
LG2: Yeah. It is. But, see, the only way they’re going to learn is if they go. You stay here, go
college here, you’re not gonna learn nothing. They not gonna leave the nest. They always
gonna be home in the nest. Right?
INV: Yeah, I mean, I, I traveled around a lot from my home, so, you do learn a lot. But – I
guess it’s true. I learned a lot from having traveled. Like, I’ve been out here, I was on the Big
Island, I went to the East Coast, I traveled to other countries, and it’s all – It opens your
mind, it makes you think about your own self more, like, you can kinda understand yourself
better because you put it in contrast to other people and how they live their life. So, I think
that’s very valuable, I’m sure it would be, for (daughter’s name – Pihilani?) as well, but I also
know, like when I went to college, there was someone there from Hawai’i, he was from out
here, and he couldn’t take any of it, he had to come back. It was just –
LG2: I can force her to stay there, so, I don’t go there again.
Both laugh.
INV: So, you’re not worried about her coming back, then?
LG2: Nah, her mother says, she have hard time she move up there. I said, “Alright, I hope
you (?)like Boston(?).”
Both laugh.
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LG2: I don’t know. Maurice say, if my daughter , my daughter leave, go to the mainland for
college, she move in there for a year. I’m like, see ya!
INV laughs.
LG2: I’m not leaving the rock!
INV: Do you have any other children who have gone to the mainland for school or is –
LG2: No, my daughter’s my oldest.
INV: She’s the oldest. Okay.
LG2: The next three below that is, one is, I think, twelve?
Interview ends.
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