TWO REVOLUTIONS COMPARED
THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION
AND THE VIETNAMESE WARS
OF INDEPENDENCE
THE IDEA
 Barbara Tuchman’s March of Folly
 Author talks about times in history when leaders went “nuts”
 Leadership of Great Britain and 1960’s US followed self-destructive paths
 Reasons for Comparison
 American Revolution is part of AP World and standard on exit exams
 Exercise brings the US back into World History were it belongs
 Vietnam is a major revolution and participant in 20th century history
 South East Asia is part of the expanded emphasis of the new AP Guide
 Compare and contrast is a major aspect of AP World History
 This study also has a quality of Change and Continuity over Time
GEOGRAPHY
 The United States
 Main axis of movement - north to south
 Coastal plains with inland highlands and mountains
 Main source of revolution - northern states (New England)
 Main population - the northern and mid-Atlantic states
 Main bastion of conservatism - southern states
 Main battle grounds - mid-Atlantic states (New York to Virginia)
 Key cities in the north: New York, Boston
 Vietnam
• Main axis of movement - north to south
• Coastal plains with inland highlands and mountains
• Main source of revolution - northern provinces (Tonkin)
• Main population - Annam and Tonkin (north)
• Main bastion of conservative - southern provinces (Cochin-China)
• Main battle grounds - central highlands of Annam
• Key cities in the north: Hanoi, Haiphong
LONG DISTANCES,
SHORT DISTANCES
 Great Britain
 An island nation across the Atlantic
 All weapons and troops had to be transported across the ocean
 UK was 3,440 miles distant from the American colonies
 United States
 Separated by the Pacific Ocean from Vietnam
 All weapons and troops had to be transported across the ocean
 Los Angeles to Saigon is more than 7,000 miles
 American Colonists, Viet Cong, Vietnamese fought for their homes
 Americans and Viet Cong were both fighting on familiar terrain
 Both had relatives and homes in area to defend
PROTAGONISTS
 Great Britain
 The world’s largest power at time
 Maintained the world’s largest fleet
 The richest country of the day
 Her companies dominated trade
 Had colonial possessions and interests the world over
 At home country was extremely progressive and relatively democratic
 The United States
 The world’s superpower at the time
 Maintained the world’s largest fleet, 3rd largest army
 The richest country of the day
 American corporations were the most powerful in world
 Had bases and interests the world over
 At home country was extremely progressive and relatively democratic
IDEOLOGIES
 American Revolution
 No taxation without representation
 Opposed to tyranny
 Believed in self-determination
 Words and rhetoric reflected the ideas of the Enlightenment
 Leaders quoted John Locke and the British Bill of Rights
 Vietnamese Revolution
 Communism: opposed to the tyranny of capitalists
 Sought to overthrow capitalist system
 Words and rhetoric reflect communism
 Leaders quoted Jefferson and the American Declaration of Independence
 Great Britain
 Mercantilism, colonialism
 Multi-party elections, rule by oligarchy
 The United States
 Anti-communism, great power ideology
 Business oriented, multi-party oligarchy
PRIOR TO THE WAR
 Both inherited problems from France
 Great Britain
 Had won colonial struggles of the French, Indian Wars
 In war had relied on colonial militias to help fight war
 Had won the territory of much of central North America
 The United States
 Had defeated Japan, acquired great influence in region
 During World War II, US had armed, helped anti-Japanese forces
 Viet Minh forces had defeated French at Dien Bien Phu
 1954 Indo-China, 1765 North America
 Truce separated Tonkin, Cochin China; partitioned
 Elections were to follow to reunited country
 English ruled diverse populations with different needs, wants
 No uniform approach to policies, approaches often angered locals
LEADERS
 Political
 American: John Adams, Thomas Jefferson
 Gifted organizers and orators, known abroad
 Vietnamese: Ho Chi Minh
 Helped establish French Communist Party
 Lead Viet Minh against Japanese, French
 Military
 American: George Washington
 Leader of the French-Indian Wars, well respected
 Vietnamese: Vo Nguyen Giap
 Had led Vietnamese forces against Japanese, French
 Diplomatic
 American: Benjamin Franklin
 Spoke fluent French, worked well with French elite
 Vietnamese: Le Duc Thieu
 Educated in France, spoke flawless French
MANY ENEMIES ABROAD
 Great Britain
 France and Spain
 Both eventually sent troops to assist the Americans
 French army significant at Battle of Yorktown
 Netherlands
 Recognized the United States
 Provided aid to the colonists
 League of Armed Neutrality
 Prussia, Russia, Denmark and Sweden remained neutral
 But they also sympathized to a degree with the colonists
 The United States
 The Communist World especially the USSR and China
 Both openly furnished weapons, money, support for the Vietnamese
 Both had observers and advisors with Vietnamese army, guerrillas
 Strong opposition to the United States by many nations
 Arab world, African world, Latin America openly criticized the US
 Actively supported the Vietnamese in the United Nations, media
SOME
FRIENDS,
BUT NOT
MANY
 Great Britain
 Great Britain’s king was also rule of Hanover in Holy Roman Empire
 German states such Hesse, Brunswick, Thuringia duchies
 “Canada” and other Atlantic colonies actually involved in the war
 All furnished mercenaries, military units to support the British war effort
 The United States
 Southeast Asia Treaty Organization (SEATO)
 South Korea, Philippines
 Australia, New Zealand
 All had active troops and divisions in the war
“IMPERIALIST”
GOVERNMENTS
 Great Britain
 War run by Lord North and his ministers and cabinet
 North often did not listen, consult Parliament
 British denied colonists rights guaranteed to most Englishmen
 British denied established rights to English citizens in Great Britain
 Uncompromising on the conduct of the war and its outcome
 Lack of military and political aims in the war
 Persistent and repeated miscalculations on part of government about war
 The United States
 Johnson and Nixon administrations ran war
 Both manipulated Congress, lied about war
 Both fought for democracy but supported dictatorial practices during war
 Both denied American citizens rights during protests, war
 Uncompromising on the conduct of the war and its outcome
 Failure to articulate realistic military and political goals in the war
 Persistent and repeated miscalculations on part of government about war
REVOLUTIONARY GOVERNMENTS
 The American Colonies
 Continental Congress had limited influence over states
 Individual states ran by their own legislatures and state militias
 Limited participation by population: landowners could vote
 Large population had no rights: Indians, poor, women, slaves
 Loyalists: opponents harshly treated
 Vietnam
 Two different governments: North Vietnam and South Vietnam
 National governments were often secondary to military, generals, troops
 Communist party was an elitist organization in the north
 South Vietnam was run by wealthy landowners
 Large Franco-phone Catholic military clique
 Basic rights were denied during war to most people
 Opponents harshly treated
HEARTS TO WIN
 American Revolution
 The Southern States
 Southern plantation owners were not revolutionary
 Majority of population neutral
 Slavery was a key issue
 The American Indians
 Frontier was thinly populated except by Indians
 Favored the British and opposed the Americans
 Vietnam
 Cochin-China
 Southern population was not totally Vietnamese
 Long history independent of north
 Strong Hindu, Buddhist, Catholic presence in South
 North tended towards Chinese influence, Confucianism
 The Hill Peoples
 Highlands, mountains, jungles thinly populated
 Montagnards, Negritos opposed both Hanoi, Saigon
OPPOSITION TO WAR

Great Britain
 Strong domestic opposition to the war
 Many in Parliament openly opposed the government
 Many parts of the country (Scotland, Ireland) sympathized with the colonists
 Many famous Englishmen supported the colonists: Adam Smith
 Domestic opposition to war grew over time, from all societal elements
 The war split families

United States
 Strong domestic opposition to the war from the youth
 Many Democrats were decidedly anti-war
 College campuses, California strongly anti-war, pro-Vietnamese
 Domestic opposition grew over time, from all societal elements
 Minorities were most impacted negatively by war
 Many actors and intellectuals opposed the war: Jane Fonda
 The war split families

Vietnam
 Buddhists, many non-Vietnamese opposed war
COMBAT
 Great Britain
 Relied on professional troops including mercenaries
 Extremely well-trained, well-fed, well-supplied
 Had superiority in numbers, ease of movement
 Navies commanded the seas
 Technological superiority especially in cannons, howitzers
 And the American Colonists?
 Some professionals
 Largely militias using whatever weapons they had
 Knew terrain and used it against British
 Practiced restraint throughout war
 United States
 Relied on professional troops including allies
 Extremely well-supplied and well-trained
 Had superiority in numbers, ease of movement
 Navies commanded the sea
 Technological superiority in air power, helicopters, tanks, howitzers
 And Vietnam?
 Some professionals but mostly volunteers
 Many different types of weapons
 Used guerrilla warfare and terrain to fight the Americans
 Practiced restraint? Depends on whose POV
LONG PROLONGED STRUGGLE
 Great economic dislocation in both countries and colonies
 American Revolution
 War disrupted British commerce – colonial navy seized merchants
 War disrupted colonial economies – planting, commerce disrupted
 1 in 3 colonies eventually immigrated
 Vietnam War
 Over 1 million Vietnamese killed, millions more dislocated
 Hundreds of thousands of people immigrated
 Much of productive wealth damaged during war throughout country
 In US, vast inflation and stagnant growth, debt swelled
 Both nations missed opportunities to disengage from conflict
 Both nations lacked experience in dealing with their rebels
 British disregard colonials as backwater hicks
 Americans misjudged Hanoi’s resolve, capabilities
THE CIVIL WAR WITHIN THE WAR
 American Revolution
 Not all Americans supported independence
 Loyalists strongest in the South but in all provinces
 Many openly supported British even with troop levies
 After war, loyalists immigrated, expelled to Canada
 Vietnamese Wars of Independence
 Not all Vietnamese supported Communist Hanoi, Viet Cong
 Loyalists strongest in the South but in all provinces
 Republic of Vietnam furnished largest troop contingent
 After war, South Vietnamese immigrated, sent to re-education
PRE-WAR, WARTIME DIPLOMACY
 Great Britain: 1774 – 1783
 Unwillingness to listen to European powers
 Unwillingness to negotiate with colonists
 Lack of ability to negotiate a satisfactory end to war
 United States 1960 – 1975
 Unwillingness to negotiate or abide by 1954 Geneva decision
 Unwillingness for a decade or more to negotiate with Hanoi
 Lack of ability to negotiate a satisfactory end to war
 The British and the United States had to win
 Neither side could suffer defeat or admit to defeat
 Both sides often won major battles but lost some too
 American Colonists, Viet Cong did not have to win
 They had to simply outlast the British, US military
 They both sought victory through convincing others
 Both sides continued fighting while they negotiated
 British negotiated with colonists in France, Belgium
 The US and North Vietnam negotiated at Paris
DOMINO EFFECT
 Great Britain and Fears Realized?
 Fear American independence would spread “fever”
 Most worried about Scotland, Ireland, Canada, slaves
 French Revolution, Revolution in Haiti, Latin American revolutions
 United States and Fears Realized?
 Worried that they had to stop spread of communism
 A victory in Vietnam would spread communism to SE Asia
 Communism established in Cambodia, Laos, Nicaragua, parts of Africa
DIFFERENCES
 British and colonists used conventional military tactics, Viet Cong were guerrillas
 Violence and intimidation by either side was limited in American Revolution
 Violence and intimidation by both sides was quite common in Vietnam
 American colonists were not Viet Cong
 Viet Cong had to struggle long and hard to win support
 South openly did not want to be Communist
 They did not fight guerrilla war – in fact rarely did they use these tactics
 Despite protests, the colonists were not treated like Irish
 Americans were not imprisoned, executed like Irish
 Americans were not ruled at point of bayonet
 British were horrified at Boston Massacre and war crimes
 Americans in Vietnam could not tell differences between sides




Americans often mistreated even South Vietnamese
US backed military solutions with regard to whole populace
US allowed Republic of Vietnam armed forces to use terror
Until Mei Lai Massacre, atrocities were generally ignored and not reported
 Family?
 British and Americans knew each other well
 Americans, Vietnamese did not know or really understand each other