Agenda item no ______3______
LICENSING AND APPEALS COMMITTEE
Minutes of a meeting of the Licensing and Appeals Committee held at 10.00 am on
14 November 2011 in the Council Chamber, Council Offices, Holt Road, Cromer.
Members Present:
Mrs A Claussen-Reynolds
Mrs A Green
Mrs P Grove-Jones
Mr B Hannah
Mr P High
Ms B Palmer
Mr R Price (Chairman)
Mr R Shepherd
Mr B Smith
Mrs A Sweeney
Mrs H Thompson
Mr J Wyatt
Mrs L Brettle
Mr E Seward
Also present:
Officers in attendance:
The Licensing Manager, the Legal Advisor, the Environmental
Health Manager, the Licensing Administrators and the Democratic
Services Officer (AA).
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APOLOGIES FOR ABSENCE
Mr B Jarvis and Mr R Reynolds.
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PUBLIC QUESTIONS
None received.
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MINUTES
The Minutes of the meeting of the Licensing and Appeals Committee held on 19
September 2011 and also the minutes of the meetings of the Licensing SubCommittees held on 14 September 2011 and 12 October 2011 were approved as
correct records and signed by the Chairman.
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ITEMS OF URGENT BUSINESS
None.
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DECLARATIONS OF INTEREST
None.
Licensing and Appeals Committee
14 November 2011
26
LICENSING ACT 2003 – REPORT COVERING 2012-11
The report provided an overview of the operation of the Act during the past 12
months.
Concern was expressed by a Member that consultees were only required to respond
to applications when they had a comment to make. For audit purposes, he
considered that that a response should be made even if it was to state that there was
no comment to make. The Licensing Manager responded that chasing up responses
was not good office practice and was not required by law. There was also some
confusion as to how the consultation period was calculated. The Police Licensing
Officer confirmed that his team responded to all licensing applications from all
authorities. This was by email and, in the case of a hearing later on, a hard copy
would also be sent.
In response to concerns about licensing hours for late night refreshment houses, the
Licensing Inspector for Norfolk stated that, currently, many takeaway premises
requiring a license did not have conditions attached to it. This was a big issue as
some premises were trading beyond their licensed hours and was something which
the Police were trying to highlight.
The issue was raised of young people buying alcohol cheaply from supermarkets,
consuming it and then creating a public order problem and also what the Council
could do to prevent this. There was also the potential problem of alcohol
consumption by young people at home being unsupervised. The Licensing Manager
explained that, together with trading standards agencies, Council officers monitored
sales of alcohol to young people. If on three separate occasions, premises sold
alcohol to those who were underage, the possibility of losing their licence could be
looked into. Staff in supermarkets were trained on ensuring that alcohol was not sold
to anyone who was underage. The Licensing Manager believed that the Government
was trying to make the price of alcohol in supermarkets more realistic, but failing
because of rules by the European Union. Concern was expressed by a Member,
however, that higher alcohol prices could lead to it being sold on the black market at
a lower price.
RESOLVED that
Members note the report and support current monitoring activities, liaison groupings
and compliance initiatives.
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PRESENTATION/QUESTION AND ANSWER SESSION WITH SENIOR POLICE
OFFICERS ON LICENSING ISSUES
Tony Brown, Police Licensing Officer, Inspector E Brown and Chief Inspector N Baily
were introduced to the meeting.
They explained how the Police gave out data on licensed premises in North Norfolk.
The Police were involved in managing public disorder and had dialogue with and
monitored premises of concern. Copies of data showing incident rates were
circulated to the meeting. The number of incidents were very low in North Norfolk.
The Police worked very closely with licensees and tried to offer support. In the case
of drugs, people entering premises could be screened beforehand or the premises
themselves could be scanned afterwards. In the case of alcohol, young people’s
details could be taken and linked with other Police authorities. The first time a letter
Licensing and Appeals Committee
14 November 2011
sent to the young person’s parents, the second time, a talk with parents and the third
time could result in the young person going to court. Test purchasing could be used
to determine whether a shop was selling alcohol to someone underage. An
underage person asking an adult to buy alcohol for them could be monitored. Some
of these practises, however were outdated, as alcohol was purchased mainly from
supermarkets and consequently obtained by young people at home.
A Member who had experience of working in a prison and of being a licensee
considered that most alcohol-related problems were with adults and not young
people.
It was noted that the Council worked with publicans to try to urge them to pre-empt
incidents and ask for help. There was a need for all parties to work together and
share information on, for example, common problems, intelligence, level of lighting in
the street, street furniture, issued raised through neighbourhood watch. It was
suggested that often a change in a premises licence could often change the type of
appeal of a premises.
The Police were thanked for the way in which they handled these matters.
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LICENSING ACT 2003 – CONSULTATION ON DEREGULATION OF
ENTERTAINMENT LICENSING
The report related to the DCMS (Department for Culture, Media and Sport)
consultation on the proposed deregulation of entertainment licensing.
The Licensing Manager said that the key points arising from the consultation were
that the current licensing system provided forewarning of an event for which advice
could be given. If it was deregulated, this would not be possible. Also, the
occasional use of venues could be a significant concern to the community and there
would be no licensing framework.
A Member expressed concern over the lack of control of noise levels from premises
should control be deregulated. He considered that should it be left to Environmental
Health Officers, their effectiveness would have limitations.
Members raised other areas of concern including children cage-fighting, firework
displays although these were not currently regulated.
Inspector E Brown considered that the most problematic events were at premises
which already had a licence in place and did not therefore need to apply for
permission (or give notice) for a particular event. Police officers had already made
representations to the Government about temporary event notices as there was often
very little to object to on evidence grounds, if the venue had not been used in the
past, and not enough detail.
Members considered that it was vital for there to be a framework to work around and
tools to manage events which was what licensing regulation provided. The
deregulation of licensing should be objected to in the strongest terms.
The Licensing Manager informed the meeting that the views of Members and Officers
would be collated and signed off by the Cabinet or Portfolio Holder at the end of the
month. He would email all Members with the final document but they would have the
opportunity to add their own views direct to the DCMS to the points already made.
Licensing and Appeals Committee
14 November 2011
A Member also put forward the view that there was too much regulation and it may
be appropriate in some cases to deregulate it, and there was enough legislation
under the Licensing Act 2003 to cover the salient points.
The Environmental Health Manager pointed out that there could be danger in
stereotyping events as to whether they could be problems or not and this should be
taken into consideration when making a response. The Safety Advisory Group in
North Norfolk tried to advise event organisers on good practice. If the proposals to
deregulate went ahead, the Group would need more help. It could also impact on
other service areas of the Council.
RESOLVED that
Members endorse a reply to the consultation.
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LICENSING ACT 2003 – UPDATE ON TAXI WORKING GROUP AND
CONSULATION ON REVISION TO HANDBOOK
The report highlighted the work undertaken to date and outlined a proposed
consultation exercise.
Officers were thanked for all the hard work they had undertaken.
The Licensing Manager explained that a points system of enforcement for breaches
of licence conditions would enable the Council to give a taxi driver a visual reprimand
and to sanction them
A Member was concerned about introducing legislation where none was needed.
The Legal Advisor added that it was important that a taxi driver would be able to
disagree with points given by the Council.
It was noted that approximately one third of local authorities nationwide operated a
points system, including some rural Norfolk authorities.
RESOLVED that
Members endorse the approach being undertaken.
_____________________
Chairman
26 March 2012
Licensing and Appeals Committee
14 November 2011