Approved Minutes
Meeting on 09 September 2015
ISCC
INDUSTRY STANDARDS CO-ORDINATION COMMITTEE (ISCC)
Approved Minutes of meeting held on 09 September 2015
Conference Room Shinkansen, RSSB’s offices, London
Present
Representing
Status
Jane Simpson (JS)
Mark Phillips (MPh)
Laurence Gregory (LG)
Stephen Collicott (SC)
Mark Molyneux (MMo)
Tim Shakerley (TS)
Malcolm Beard (MBe)
Anna Bradley (AB)
Vaibhav Puri (VP)
Tom Lee (TL)
Independent
RSSB
ROSCOs
Suppliers
Passenger Train Operators
Freight Operators
NOBOs
RSSB Chairman
RSSB
Chairman Control Command and
Signalling Standards Committee
Chairman Traffic Operation and
Management Standards
Committee
RSSB
Chairman
Member
Member
Member
Member
Member
Co-opted Member
Guest
Alternate Member
Guest (for item 4)
Infrastructure Contractors
Office of Rail and Road (ORR)
Department for Transport (DfT)
Suppliers
Infrastructure Manager
Infrastructure Manager
Passenger Train Operators
Non-passenger Train Operators
Member
Observer
Observer
Alternate Member
Alternate Member
Alternate Member
Alternate Member
Alternate Member
Gary Portsmouth (GP)
Faye Trousdale (FT)
Marie Marks (MM)
Apologies
Neil Whisler (NW)
Paul Hooper (PH)
Ian Jones (IJ)
Jim Lupton (JL)
Maya Petkova (MPe)
Martin Biggin (MBi)
Neil Ovenden (NO)
Ian Dougherty (ID)
Page 1 of 12
Guest (for item 5)
Guest (for item 7)
Secretary
Approved Minutes
Meeting on 09 September 2015
Number
Minute
1
Introductions
1.1
Introductions were made for the benefit of new member Stephen
Collicott and for Anna Bradley, the Chairman of RSSB’s Board. Anna was
observing how the committee operates and its relationship with RSSB’s
Board.
The chairman highlighted that the expectation is for presenters to
assume that the papers have been read and spend only five to ten
minutes highlighting the key points. This will allow more time for
discussion.
2
Minutes of meeting of 12 August 2015
The minutes for 12 August 2015 were agreed with the following
amendments:
2.1
a)
b)
3
3.1
ISCC
Action
Item 8.4 – DfT workshop is about 4th railway package – not
interoperability.
Item 7.2f) – contains a spurious “is”.
Review of actions arising from previous meetings’ minutes
Refer to the actions table at Appendix B.
For Discussion
4
Control Command and Signalling Standards Committee Chairman’s
report (presentation)
4.1
Introduction:
This item was introduced by Tom Lee (TL), Chairman of the Control
Command and Signalling (CCS) Standards Committee (SC).
TL highlighted the key points in his presentation.
The information had been updated to take account of TSI issues and was
re-circulated to members immediately after the presentation.
4.2
ISCC comments/observations:
a)
Comment: The DfT observer was seen as a very helpful addition to
DfT/IJ
the committee and the DfT representative on ISCC was asked to look
into providing a suitable representative.
b)
Question: Why is there reluctance to produce a Rail Industry
Standard (RIS)?
Response: It is more a reluctance to have requirements in anything
other than a Railway Group Standard (RGS). It is a lack of
understanding of the context of a RIS and historic familiarity with
RGSs.
c)
Question: So is this more about communications?
Response: Yes – engagement is key – on this issue particularly with
those interested in signalling principles.
Page 2 of 12
Approved Minutes
Number
Meeting on 09 September 2015
Minute
d)
Question: The RIS can provide everything in one place so will this be
a wasted opportunity if we produce an RGS now and a RIS later?
Response: No. The [signal sighting] standard was developed as an
RGS (in the expectation that it would be a National Safety
Rule(NSR)). But an improved understanding of NSRs and the new
standards strategy will mean that the content is most likely
published as a RIS instead.
e)
Question: In relation to the draft satellite navigation document
versus a finalised version – was it the view that a draft is better than
nothing?
Response: A lot of time was spent on this in the [Standards
Committee] workshop. The view was that delay should be avoided,
and getting comments on a draft would be helpful rather than going
straight to a final version. One of the key things that emerged
however, was that there is a will for a shorter, more targeted
consultation to achieve faster publication of the issued document.
Draft documents didn’t have sufficient credibility for many users.
f)
Question: Presumably this is because suppliers want a clear set of
requirements?
Response: Yes. Publishing a draft is not always helpful as, if the
requirements change between draft and final versions, suppliers can
be left with non-conforming products.
g)
Question: Why is ERTMS not backwardly compatible on the
Cambrian Line?
Response: It was based on an early version of the TSI and whenever
technology moves forward there is a limit to what can be made to
be backwardly compatible.
h)
Question: In respect of baseline 3, maintenance release 2, and the
evolution of a GB solution that works for us, what should the GB
industry do?
Response: Most of the changes are not a significant problem and
many offer benefits. There are however some very detailed and
specific things that are causing problems. If, as is being suggested,
there is likely to be a five year specification freeze, there are
probably issues that will not yet have been identified, due to limited
application to date on particular types of line. GB has a strong
allegiance with the Dutch and the Danish to work through some of
the emerging issues. Many other countries have not yet
experienced these problems but they will probably find them when
they do further ETCS deployments. Two change requests that look
likely not to be included may have significant implications for GB
(not just on ETCS-fitted lines).
Page 3 of 12
ISCC
Action
Approved Minutes
Number
Meeting on 09 September 2015
Minute
i)
Question: Should GB be applying for a deviation?
Response: Possibly. This has been discussed with Network Rail, train
operators, ROSCos, DfT and ORR. Much is being done to ensure the
change requests are included. If it does not happen, there are other
options – one of which is to seek a derogation from the Technical
Specification for Interoperability (TSI).
j)
Question: In respect of the signal sighting RIS issue, are the
requirements currently in an appendix to the RGS?
Response: Yes, but not expressed as requirements, more as a
definition of a reference system.
k)
Question: Regarding item 5 – train detection parameters, design
freeze – and the clarification published to address this. What was
the policy at the point of design?
ISCC
Action
Response: If a standard changed during the course of a project, it
was not clear at what point the design requirements were frozen.
The clarification was to set out that it was a project decision (the
clarification amended the compliance clause). The amended clause
is now incorporated into the standard template.
l)
Question: Was the rationale for dimensions (mentioned in the
report) for the TSI or the RGS?
Response: The RGS – the TSI specifies absolute values, but for safe
application in the design of signalled layouts, practical tolerances
need to be defined.
m) Comment: It should be noted that no deviations for two months is a
very positive thing for standards.
n) Comment: In terms of ensuring training and knowledge of the right
people, it is worth making contact with the National Training
Academy for Rail (NTAR).
4.3
Decisions:
a) ISCC NOTED the content of the presentation
4.4
Actions:
a) DfT to look into providing an observer for CCS SC.
Page 4 of 12
DfT/IJ
Approved Minutes
Meeting on 09 September 2015
Number
Minute
5
Traffic Operation and Management Standards Committee Chairman’s
report (presentation)
5.1
Introduction:
This item was introduced by Gary Portsmouth (GP), Chairman of the
Traffic Operation and Management (TOM) Standards Committee (SC).
ISCC
Action
GP highlighted the key points of his presentation.
GP also introduced the strategy for TOM SC. The key points were drawn
to the committee’s attention were:
5.2
a)
alignment with ISCC strategic plan and strategy for standards
b)
inclusion of key activities concerning the development of the
OPE TSI Implementation Plan and
c)
Digital Rule Book.
ISCC comments/observations:
a)
Question: In respect of the workshop being held on deviations – is it
something that other SCs might be interested in too?
Response: Yes – not just the SCs but with member organisations – a
whole programme of work is being done.
b)
Question: On quality of deviations – is there anything more that can
be done?
Response: There is a guidance document but there is more to do.
The SCs need to identify what good looks like and perhaps develop a
presentation template.
c)
Comment: A new form (that includes guidance) will be made
available from November. This should help.
d)
Comment: When RSSB is aware of a potential deviation application,
it often supports the applicant through the process, if required.
e)
Question: What are the other national implementation plans for
TSIs? Could this be a forward agenda item?
Response: It is the responsibility of the member state – but the plans RSSB/MM
should be available yes. It will be added to the forward agenda for
DfT to action.
f)
Question: On page 7 of the strategy document, it states ‘… it is
assumed RSSB will lead on behalf of the member state (Department
for Transport)’, did you not say RSSB were leading?
Response: Yes – GP agreed to amend the document to clarify the
fact that RSSB is leading on behalf of the DfT.
5.3
Decisions:
a) ISCC NOTED the content of the presentation and ENDORSED the
TOM SC strategy.
5.3
Actions:
a) Add TSI implementation plans to the forward agenda for DfT.
Page 5 of 12
RSSB/MM
Approved Minutes
Meeting on 09 September 2015
ISCC
Number
Minute
Action
6
Strategy for Standards (Communications Plan and Implementation Plan)
6.1
Introduction:
This item was introduced by Vaibhav Puri (VP) from RSSB. VP delivered a
presentation (to be circulated separately and attached to the published
minutes) highlighting the key points.
6.2
ISCC comments/observations:
a) Comment: The Requirements Management Database project should RSSB/MM
be on the forward agenda.
Response: Agreed. MM to add.
b)
Comment: Can the key be more intuitive (eg use “T” for Twitter,
rather than “C”).
Response: Yes – this will be changed.
RSSB/VP
c)
Comment: Relating to national operations publications, it is the
most significant change being made and the plan shows that the
status will be changed in September but the communication will not
happen until 2016. This is a risk.
Response: That is an error and will be corrected – the change in
status will not happen ahead of RSSB November Board meeting and
comprehensive communication with industry
RSSB/VP
d)
Comment: The biggest issue will be with the leaders in industry who
are not in touch with this. The communications plan does not
address communication with the leaders of industry – this will be
something that must be discussed at RSSB Board level.
Response: Agreed.
e)
Comment: It was agreed that ISCC members would feedback
comments on the implementation plan and the communications
plan by 25 September 2015 – as it was not circulated beforehand.
6.3
Decisions:
ISCC NOTED the contents of the communications and implementation
plans for the standards strategy, and ENDORSED the related governance
and reporting structure
6.4
Actions:
a) MM to add RMDB project to the forward agenda.
ISCC
members
RSSB/MM
b)
All to provide comments on the implementation plan and the
communications plan for the strategy for standards by
25 September 2015.
ISCC
members
c)
VP to update both the communications plan and the
implementation plan (with comments received from ISCC members
by 25 September) and present to ISCC in November.
RSSB/VP
Page 6 of 12
Approved Minutes
Meeting on 09 September 2015
Number
Minute
7
RSSB’s online standards catalogue (demonstration)
7.1
Introduction:
This item was introduced by Marie Marks (MM) and Faye Trousdale (FT)
from RSSB. FT demonstrated the online standards catalogue to highlight
the improved functionality.
ISCC
Action
MM offered to visit member organisations if required. ISCC members to
advise.
8
Any other business
8.1
AOB item 1: TSI Issues Log
This item, raised by LG, was about issues not getting onto the TSI issues
log (the concern was shared by Paul Hooper). It was suggested that it
could be a standing agenda item. The SC Chairmen’s reports previously
covered TSI issues log items. What is happening with the SC Chairmen’s
reports? Separately, how often should the TSI issues log be reviewed at
ISCC?
Response: The SC Chairmen will cover TSI issues log items specific to their
discipline in their presentations to ISCC. The purpose of the SC
Chairmen’s reports is to provide ISCC members with confidence that the
chairmen are managing the work of their committees competently. In
terms of a communications document for our members, MPh will take
that up with the SC Chairmen.
Actions:
a)
MPh to look at what needs to be done to understand the scale of
the issue in terms of what is being logged in the TSI issues log.
RSSB/MPh
b)
MPh to discuss with SC Chairmen how best to provide a brief for
industry members on SC related issues.
RSSB/MPh
No items were proposed as ‘not for discussion’
9
Next meeting
9.1
12 November 2015 at The Helicon in Moorgate
Page 7 of 12
Approved Minutes
Meeting on 09 September 2015
ISCC
Appendix A: Forward Agenda Items
DfT/IJ
A.1
OPE TSI implementation plan (action no. 2015-01-21 – 01 refers) –
November 2015
A.2
Contracts supported by Standards Committee – May and November
A.3
Report from Chairman of Infrastructure (INS) Standards Committee –May
and November
RSSB/BE
A.4
Report from Chairman of Rolling Stock (RST) Standards Committee - May
and November
RSSB/HO
A.5
How to deal with issues around implementation of TSIs – issues –
November 2015
ORR/PH
A.6
Implementation plans for TSIs – November 2015
A.7
ISCC’s strategic plan – review of progress and key activities – November
2015
RSSB/VP
A.8
RSSB Standards Activities Report - January and July 2016
RSSB/MP
A.9
Requirements Management Database – January 2016
RSSB/AC
A.10
Report from Chairman of Energy (ENE) Standards Committee –and January
and July 2016.
RSSB/SV
A.11
Update on cyber security work –January and July 2016
RSSB/MV
A.12
Report from Chairman of Plant (PLT) Standards Committee – March
RSSB/NH
A.13
Report from Chairman of Traffic Operation and Management (TOM)
Standards Committee – March and September
RSSB/GP
A.14
Report from Chairman of Control Command and Signalling (CCS) Standards
Committee – March and September
RSSB/TL
A.15
Report from Chairman of EOSRG – March and September
RSSB/TL
Page 8 of 12
RSSB/MM
DfT/IJ
Approved Minutes
Meeting on 09 September 2015
ISCC
Appendix B: Actions Table
Action Number
Description of action (updates in blue)
2015-05-14 - 01
Bring a proposal regarding IM membership on ISCC.
Owner
Status
RSSB/MPh
Closed
RSSB/MPh
Closed
DfT/IJ
Open
ORR/PH
Open
RSSB/GB
Open
Update: 12-08-2015: MPh will bring a proposal to the September meeting.
Update: 09-09-2015: Met with Nichola Shaw at HS1 – they are actively considering the type of
membership they want to take up at RSSB. When decided, it will come back to ISCC. Closed.
2015-05-14 – 04
Raise with RAIB the ranking of recommendations and seeking feedback on their services.
Update: 12-08-2015: Outstanding.
Update: 09-09-2015: Spoken with Simon French – was amenable to discussing recommendations and
meeting arranged with ORR. Closed. [Post meeting note: RAIB will not prioritise recommendations
but suggest that we engage more with ORR in agreeing timescales to close out RAIB actions.]
2015-05-14 – 05
Take up the issue of DfT representation at INS SC.
Update: 12-08-2015: Tim Kendall was previously on INS SC (on behalf of DfT). There may not be a
replacement from DfT.
Update: 09-09-2015: Not in attendance. Outstanding.
2015-05-14 - 09
ORR to produce a paper to support issues around implementation of TSIs.
Update: 12-08-2015: Outstanding.
Update: 09-09-2015: Not in attendance – outstanding.
2015-08-12 - 01
RSSB to produce a short briefing note and, subsequently, a more detailed guidance note setting out:
b)
how to use the CSM-DT
c)
how not to use it and
d)
how to best navigate through this complex area.
Timescale to be advised.
Update: 09-09-2015: David Griffin reported that the short briefing note should be available by 11
September 2015.
Page 9 of 12
Approved Minutes
Meeting on 09 September 2015
Action Number
Description of action (updates in blue)
2015-08-12 – 02
Regarding the EMF directive, RSSB to put a proposal to the relevant SCs to take forward both the
research and developing a guidance note at the same time.
ISCC
Owner
Status
RSSB/DK
Closed
RSSB/VP
Closed
RSSB/MM
Closed
Post meeting note: The proposal for the Guidance Note has been put to ENE SC as the lead committee,
and circulated to all other committees for support in accordance with RSSB normal practice.
The proposal is now progressing through the Standards Department who will directly let the external
contract to support the development of the guidance.
Update: 09-09-2015: RSSB is starting the work on the guidance which will avoid external costs.
Completed – closed.
2015-08-12 – 03
In respect of the strategy for standards, RSSB to bring to ISCC in September 2015 a communications
plan, next steps, timescales and owners.
Update: 09-09-2015: Agenda item – closed.
2015-08-12 – 04
Add a column to the agenda identifying whether or not a supporting paper/presentation is available.
Update: 09-09-2015: Completed - closed.
2015-09-09 - 01
DfT to look into providing an observer for CCS SC.
DfT/IJ
Open
2015-09-09 – 02
Add TSI implementation plans to the forward agenda for DfT.
RSSB/MM
Open
2015-09-09 – 03
Add the Requirements Management Database project as a forward agenda item.
RSSB/MM
Open
2015-09-09 – 04
All to provide comments on the implementation plan and the communications plan for the standards
strategy by 25 September 2015.
All ISCC
members
Open
2015-09-09 – 05
VP to update both the communications plan and the implementation plan (with comments received
from ISCC members by 25 September) and present to ISCC in November.
RSSB/VP
Open
2015-09-09 – 06
MPh to look at what needs to be done to understand the scale of the issue in terms of what is being
logged in the TSI issues log. [Post meeting note: paper on the agenda for November 2015 meeting.
Closed.]
RSSB/MPh
Open
2015-09-09 – 07
MPh to discuss with SC Chairmen how best to provide a brief for industry members on SC related
issues.
RSSB/MPh
Open
Page 10 of 12
Approved Minutes
Meeting on 09 September 2015
ISCC
Appendix C: Future meeting dates:
Nov
2015
Dec
2015
Jan
2016
Feb
2016
Mar
2016
Apr
2016
May
2016
Jun
2016
Jul
2016
Aug
2016
Sep
2016
Oct
2016
Nov
2016
Dec
2016
Jan
2017
Feb
2017
Mar
2017
Apr
2017
ISCC
12
--
20
--
16
--
18
--
14
--
15
--
17
--
24
--
21
--
RSSB Board
12
07
03
APPROVED
______________________________
Jane Simpson, Chairman
Marie Marks, Secretary, ISCC
Page 11 of 12
Tel: 020 3142 5575
Date_____________________
Fax: 020 3142 5669
Email: marie.marks@rssb.co.uk
Approved Minutes
Meeting on 09 September 2015
Appendix D – attachments to minutes
Attachment 1
CCS SC Chairman’s presentation
Attachment 2
TOM SC Chairman’s presentation and TOM SC strategy
Attachment 3
Strategy for Standards – communications plan
Attachment 4
Strategy for Standards – implementation plan
Page 12 of 12
ISCC