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Exhibit J
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SIMULTANEOUS MEETING OF SENATE COMMITTEE ON
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REAPPORTIONMENT
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AND HOUSE SELECT COMMITTEE ON REDISTRICTING
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AUGUST 7, 2014
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Transcribed by:
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CLARA C. ROTRUCK
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Court Reporter
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P R O C E E D I N G S
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Good afternoon, members,
let's take our seats if you would, please.
Okay.
At this time I would like to call to
5
order the Senate Committee on Reapportionment and
6
ask the Senate Administrative Assistant to please
7
call the roll.
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SENATE ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT:
Galvano.
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CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
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SENATE ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT:
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Here.
SENATOR SMITH:
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SENATE ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT:
Here.
SENATOR BRADLEY:
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SENATE ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT:
Here.
Senator
Gibson.
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SENATOR GIBSON:
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SENATE ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT:
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SENATOR LEE:
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SENATE ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT:
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Senator
Bradley.
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Senator
Smith.
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Senator
Here.
Senator Lee.
Here.
Senator
Montford.
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SENATOR MONTFORD:
Here.
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SENATE ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT:
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Senator
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Simmons.
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SENATOR SIMMONS:
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SENATE ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT:
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5
Here.
They are all
present.
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Thank you.
Chairman
6
Corcoran, I will defer to you to roll call at this
7
point.
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CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Would the House please
call the roll?
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HOUSE:
Chair Corcoran.
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CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
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HOUSE:
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REPRESENTATIVE McBURNEY:
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HOUSE:
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REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
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HOUSE:
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REPRESENTATIVE CALDWELL:
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HOUSE:
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REPRESENTATIVE CUMMINGS:
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HOUSE:
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REPRESENTATIVE FULLWOOD:
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HOUSE:
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REPRESENTATIVE McGHEE:
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HOUSE:
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REPRESENTATIVE METZ:
Here.
Vice-Chair McBurney.
Here.
Representative Berman.
Here.
Representative Caldwell.
Here.
Representative Cummings.
Here.
Representative Fullwood.
Here.
Representative McGhee.
Here.
Representative Metz.
Here.
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HOUSE:
Representative Oliva.
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REPRESENTATIVE OLIVA:
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HOUSE:
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REPRESENTATIVE PASSIDOMO:
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HOUSE:
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REPRESENTATIVE RODRIGUEZ:
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HOUSE:
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REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
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HOUSE:
Here.
Representative Passidomo.
Here.
Representative Rodriguez.
Here.
Democratic Ranking Thurston.
Here.
Representative Young.
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REPRESENTATIVE YOUNG:
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HOUSE:
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CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Here.
We have a quorum.
Thank you, Senators and
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House members.
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of both the House and Senate Committee on
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Reapportionment and Redistricting.
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Welcome to the simultaneous meeting
As you saw in memos earlier this week, today
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we are going to spend some time discussing the
18
litigation with our legal counsel who are here with
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us today.
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questions, followed by some discussion, and then we
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will open it up for public comment.
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We will have an opportunity to ask some
But before we go there I would first like to
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thank Chairman Corcoran for his hard work already.
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Even though it has been a very short process given
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the time constraints that we are facing, we've had
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to work very hard, very quickly already to make
2
some progress and get ahead of the curve so that we
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can make some decisions as a committee and also as
4
a Legislature.
5
Also the Senate President and Speaker
6
Weatherford for their leadership and guidance in
7
putting this together.
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Probably by now I have filed an amendment to
Senate Bill 2-A, which is an amendment that will be
10
taken up tomorrow.
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tomorrow on the Senate Committee to discuss 2-A and
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the amendment which is the proposed remedial plan
13
that I put forward as Chair, but certainly also to
14
consider any other amendments that may be filed or
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have been filed when we convene tomorrow in the
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committee.
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We intend to have a full day
And so, with that, Chairman Corcoran, do you
18
have any comments and then we will go into the
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presentation by counsel?
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CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
I would like to say it was
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a pleasure working with you, Senator, and I think
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that -- you have all seen our memo.
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have addressed some of the conversations that we
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have had to date.
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detail, but look forward to working with you and
I think we
We can get into that in more
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complying with the court order and creating a very
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constitutional and a map that answers the concerns
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of the Judge.
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CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Okay.
We will now move
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forward, and I will start by recognizing Justice
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Raoul Cantero.
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Senate.
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being here, and you are recognized to give us an
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update as to where we are.
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JUSTICE CANTERO:
He is counsel for the Florida
Good morning, Justice.
We appreciate you
Thank you, Chair Galvano.
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It's my privilege to represent the Florida Senate
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and to present to you this afternoon.
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everybody here me okay?
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is it working?
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CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
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JUSTICE CANTERO:
Can
Is this mike working?
Yes.
Now
Now it is.
I understand that there may
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be some members here who were not present in 2012.
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So I am going to be -- at least start being very
19
basic about what has happened in the past and how
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we got to this point, and then Mr. Meros, the House
21
Counsel, will kind of talk to you about where we
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are going to go from here.
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Under Article I, Section 4 of the Florida
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Constitution, the Legislature has a duty to
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reapportion Florida's Congressional districts after
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each decennial consensus.
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Following the 2010 census, Florida received
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two additional Congressional seats.
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had 25 seats and, starting in 2010, we would have
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27 seats.
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So in 2000, we
And on the wall is a depiction of the map as
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it existed in 2002, as it was drawn in 2002, which
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we call the benchmark plan.
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benchmark over there.
You see the letters
You will see this is the
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plan that we are working off of, and pay particular
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attention to District 3 in the benchmark plan,
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because we will be talking about that district.
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That is the green district that comes down from
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Jacksonville through Gainesville and to Orlando.
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We will be discussing that district more in the
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next couple of days.
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As some of you know in 2010, the Constitution
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was amended to add two particular requirements
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regarding redistricting.
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Florida legislative districts and the other nearly
21
identical provision has to do with the
22
Congressional districts, and each of these
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amendments contain two parts.
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One has to do with the
That's hard to read, but I will read it for
you.
Part A in the Congressional Amendment, which
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is Article III, Section 20 provides for a few
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requirements.
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or individual district shall be drawn with the
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intent to favor or disfavor a political party or an
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incumbent.
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The first is no apportionment plan
And let me just stop there for a second.
We
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call that the first requirement.
You cannot
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disfavor -- you cannot favor or disfavor either a
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political party or an incumbent.
Now, the Florida
10
Supreme Court in a case we call Apportionment One
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from March of 2012, when it was considering the
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Florida legislative districts, warned that the
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Constitution prohibits intent but not effect, and
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every time you draw or redraw a line there is going
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to be a political effect.
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the Constitution is an intent to either favor or
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disfavor a political party or an incumbent.
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What is prohibited by
When we get to the next clause here it says,
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"Districts shall not be drawn with the intent or
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result of denying or abridging the equal
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opportunity of racial or language minorities to
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participate in the political process, or to
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diminish their ability to elect representatives of
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their choice."
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incorporate into the Florida Constitution Sections
So that clause is intended to
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2 and 5 of the Federal Voting Rights Act which
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protect minorities from diminishment in their
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ability to elect representatives of their choice,
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and also from diluting their vote so that, instead
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of having a district where they have a majority,
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dilute the voting to two districts with less than a
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majority in each.
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is intended to incorporate those minority voting
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protections into the Florida Constitution.
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So this Constitutional provision
Then, third, districts shall consist of
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contiguous territory.
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requirements.
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is not at issue in this case.
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first section of the amendment and that is what we
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call the Tier-One requirements.
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requirements that must be abided by.
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Those are the three
The contiguous territory requirement
And that is the
Those are
Then Section B we call the Tier-Two
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requirements and we call them Tier Two because they
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are subordinate to the requirements of Tier One.
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Let me go through some of those.
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Unless compliance with the standards in this
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subsection conflicts with the standards in
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Subsection (1)(a) or with Federal law, districts
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shall be as nearly equal in population as
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practicable.
So let me stop right there.
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districts have to be as equal in population as
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practicable.
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Federal Congressional seats, as nearly equal as
4
possible means essentially equal.
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virtually no deviation in population in the
6
districts.
For purposes of Federal law and
There can be
7
Each district in Florida right now with 27
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seats and the population we have has to contain
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somewhere around 696,345 people, and you can only
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deviate to 344 or 346 for each district.
11
again, that is not at issue here, but that is
12
something that you need to know and that is why it
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makes it particularly challenging to draw
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Congressional districts because each district has
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to be equal in population.
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district, you are not changing just one, you are
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changing the districts around it, because now you
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have to either add or subtract population from
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those districts.
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And,
So, when you change one
The second requirement in Tier Two is
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districts shall be compact, and I will talk a
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little bit more about that in just a second.
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essentially it means kind of what you may just
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really understand it to be, which is as near as you
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can given the geographical makeup of the state as
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to a rectangle or a circle.
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achieve that, but you are trying to get as close to
3
that as you can.
4
Of course, you can't
And then districts shall, where feasible,
5
utilize existing political and geographical
6
boundaries.
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interpreted that to mean political boundaries are
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county boundaries and city boundaries, and
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geographical boundaries are things such as rivers,
10
State highways, Federal highways, things like that.
11
So as much as possible the boundaries have to use
12
either a geographic or a political boundary.
13
And the Florida Supreme Court has
Now the Florida Supreme Court also has said,
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or Subsection (C) of this Constitution also
15
provides that, within a particular tier, the
16
requirements are roughly equal to each other.
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other words the compactness requirement doesn't
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trump geographic and political boundaries or
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vice-versa, and in Tier One standards they don't
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trump each other.
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within that tier, but Tier One is more important
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than Tier Two.
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Two standards like compactness in order to comply
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with Tier One standards, like minority voting
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protections, then that is okay.
In
They are equal among themselves
So, if you have to sacrifice Tier
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You are going to hear a lot of things, a lot
2
of talk in the next couple of days about
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compactness and compactness measurements.
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are several ways to measure compactness.
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and most obvious way is what does it look like to
6
the eye?
7
And the courts have looked at the visual
8
compactness, they call it optical compactness,
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things like that.
There
The first
Does it look compact to the eye or not?
That, of course, is very
10
subjective.
11
by looking at it and seeing, does this look compact
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or not?
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You can't really measure that, except
Then other measures of compactness exist.
Two
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that the Florida Supreme Court has especially
15
blessed are called the Reock score and the convex
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hull score.
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measurements of compactness and they are explained
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in this graph here.
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Those are two different kinds of
If you look at the graph to the left which
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measures the Reock compactness, it is what is the
21
smallest circle that can encompass that particular
22
district?
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by the area of the circle and you come up with a
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compactness score.
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one, because the district will always be smaller
And you divide the area of the district
It will always be less than
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than the circle around it unless it is, in fact, a
2
circle.
3
So when you look at Reock scores they
4
generally talk about .25, .38, .4, measures of that
5
nature, never approaching one.
6
score is going to be a higher score, because what
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that measures is if you can place a rubber band
8
around the district so that there are straight
9
lines going from every line to every line, in the
The convex hull
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district and then again you measure the area of the
11
district divided by the area of that polygon, then
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you get a convex hull score.
13
are generally higher than a Reock score, and those
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are just different ways of looking at compactness.
15
Depending on the district, it may have a very
So convex hull scores
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high but very misleading measure of compactness.
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For example, a district that is a perfect rectangle
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that measures one inch by 100 miles would have a
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perfect convex hull score, because the rubber band
20
would go exactly around that rectangle, but it
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would be very non-compact if one inch by 100 miles.
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So these measurements are ways of determining
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compactness, but neither is exclusive and you
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really have to take into account everything,
25
including the visual compactness of a district.
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So after the 2010 Census, the Legislature got
2
together and, as you may recall, the House and the
3
Senate developed the State Legislative districts,
4
but they were also responsible for developing the
5
Congressional districts.
6
worked independently and developed their own maps
7
of the Congressional districts, and came up with --
8
for the House, we call it the semifinal plan for
9
the House was map number 9043, and the semifinal
10
plan for the Senate was 9014, but now they had to
11
reconcile those two maps and come up with a map
12
that would be the Legislature's map for the
13
Congressional districts for 2012.
And the House and Senate
14
So the Chairs from the two committees,
15
redistricting committees met along with staff and
16
they came up with a third version that would be the
17
Legislature's map which the Legislature enacted on
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February 9th of 2012.
19
see 9014.
20
then at the extreme right you will see 9047 which
21
is the enacted plan.
On the extreme left you will
In the middle you will see 9043, and
22
Again, if you look at -- in the enacted plan,
23
pay particular attention to what is now District 5
24
which goes from Jacksonville to Orlando and
25
District 10 which is just to the west of District 5
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in the Orlando/Orange County area.
2
the left and the middle maps you will see that
3
there are many areas in which they were very
4
similar and few, if any, changes had to be made in
5
the reconciliation meeting, but there were some
6
differences that had to be worked out, and we had
7
no choice but to work out those differences because
8
we had to produce one final map that would come
9
from the Legislature.
10
If you look at
And so that is what the
Legislature did is adopt 9047 in February of 2012.
11
Now, as for the litigation, just hours after
12
the Legislature adopted a plan, seven individuals
13
which we now call the Romo Plaintiffs, challenged
14
the new districts in Circuit Court in Leon County,
15
and eight days later the League of Women Voters,
16
the National Council of La Raza, which later
17
dropped out of the case, Common Cause of Florida
18
and four other individuals filed their own lawsuit,
19
which we call the League of Women Voters or
20
Coalition Plaintiffs lawsuit, and those two
21
lawsuits were consolidated into one in front of
22
Judge Terry Lewis in Tallahassee.
23
These complaints allege that the districts in
24
Florida have violated the new constitutional
25
provisions of Article III, Section 20, of the
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Florida Constitution.
2
these lawsuits that there was any violation of
3
Federal law.
4
Section 20 of the Florida Constitution.
5
There was no allegation in
It was all based on Article III,
Nor did the Plaintiffs claim that all
6
districts were invalid.
7
challenged 10 of the 27 Congressional districts,
8
and these were District 5, 10, 13, 14, 15, 21, 22,
9
25, 26 and 27.
10
They specifically
Here you have on this slide Section 5 which we
11
talked about earlier, and I will talk a little bit
12
about it again later.
13
part of District 5 towards the bottom of the
14
district in the Orlando area that juts into
15
Seminole County, Florida, and particularly into the
16
city of Sanford.
17
Note especially there was a
And note also on District 10 -- here we have a
18
better depiction of District 10.
And, again, this
19
is all in the enacted map, 9047.
There is a
20
portion that goes under District 5 and to the east
21
of District 5 that is still part of District 10,
22
and to the west and north of District 9 which is
23
the Orange district that you see.
24
Plaintiffs particularly objected to that extension.
25
And the
The Plaintiffs also challenged Districts 13
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and 14.
2
across Tampa Bay into Pinellas County.
3
Districts 21 and 22 that the Plaintiffs challenged.
4
These are 25 and 26 and that is 15.
5
and 25.
6
and 27, Monroe and Dade County.
7
then the last one here is 25.
8
basically the districts that they contested.
9
They challenged the fact that 14 extended
And I misspoke.
Okay.
These are
And that is 20
These down here are 26
That's 15, and
So those were
During the litigation you may have read
10
in the newspaper or you may have just kept track of
11
the case, the Plaintiffs attempted to obtain what
12
was at the time unprecedented discovery from the
13
Legislature.
14
depositions of legislators and legislative staff,
15
adopting the position that there is no legislative
16
privilege in Florida.
17
They sought to -- they noticed the
The Legislature fought that discovery, signed
18
a protective order from Judge Lewis, and Judge
19
Lewis determined that there was legislative
20
privilege but it was not absolute.
21
qualified and it only extended to subjective
22
thoughts and impressions and not to objective data.
23
So that legislators and staff would have to talk
24
about objective conversations and any
25
communications that did not contain subjective
It was only
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2
impressions.
The Legislature appealed that order to the
3
First District Court of Appeals, and the First
4
District quashed that Order in its entirety and
5
said that there was a legislative privilege in
6
Florida and that the subjective-objective dichotomy
7
was unworkable, there was an absolute legislative
8
privilege, and that legislators and their staff
9
should not have to even sit for a deposition to
10
11
discuss the legislative process.
The Plaintiffs then took discretionary appeal
12
to the Florida Supreme Court.
13
Court accepted jurisdiction and held oral arguments
14
in that case in September of 2013.
15
2013, the Court issued an opinion essentially
16
reverting back to Judge Lewis' understanding of the
17
privilege.
18
legislative privilege in Florida, that legislators
19
do have a certain privilege, but it is not an
20
absolute privilege.
21
of subjective thoughts and impressions but not
22
disclosure about objective facts.
23
The Florida Supreme
In December of
It acknowledged that there was a
It protects against disclosure
So we proceeded after that with the
24
litigation.
There were some legislators and some
25
legislative staff deposed in that case.
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There was
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never an assertion of legislative privilege because
2
those who testified felt that they had nothing to
3
hide, and -- and so never asserting the privilege.
4
We never went back to the Judge with any concerns
5
or any disputes about the privilege.
6
The case was first set for trial in 2013.
The
7
Legislature, maybe foretelling a little bit this
8
moment today, wanted to expedite the trial because,
9
although it was confident that the Court would not
10
find any of the districts invalid, if in fact the
11
Court did find any of them invalid, we would need
12
to withdraw them before the next election.
13
The Plaintiffs, however, sought several
14
continuances that the Legislature objected to.
15
trial was postponed at the Legislature's objection
16
from June 2013 to August 2013, from August 2013 to
17
January 2014, and finally from January to May of
18
this year.
19
The
The trial was held from May 19 to June 4th, of
20
this year.
At trial the testimony focused on the
21
development of House Plan 9043 which I discussed as
22
well as the -- and 9014 which was the Senate's
23
semifinal plan, as well as the reconciliation
24
process that led to the enacted plan.
25
Legislature presented evidence that the enacted
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The
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1
plan was the product of negotiations and reasonable
2
trade-offs between the two chambers.
3
Because the vote-dilution standard of the
4
Voting Rights Act and the Florida Constitution
5
required the Legislature to draw up
6
majority/minority districts where certain three
7
conditions were satisfied, the Legislature believed
8
that it was appropriate to draw CD 5 -- I am just
9
going to go back there for you.
That's CD 5 -- to
10
draw CD 5 to include that portion of Seminole
11
County, which, by the way, had been a part of that
12
district since 1992.
13
Seminole County, Sanford, in District 5 resulted in
14
a modest but we thought important increase in the
15
black voting age population from 49.9 percentage to
16
50.06 percent.
17
majority/minority district.
18
And including that part of
So it made it just above a
The appendage that the Plaintiffs called in
19
District 10 was the product of two adjacent
20
minority districts.
21
That would be to the east, generally, of District
22
10, but then there is that part of District 10 that
23
juts east of District 5.
24
that District 5 was a black majority district.
25
You see District 5 on the map.
We have already discussed
The other district that that part is adjacent
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to is District 9.
District 9 was a new Hispanic
2
opportunity district.
3
majority district and has never been, but the
4
Legislature thought that it was appropriate to give
5
Hispanics an opportunity at some point to elect a
6
candidate of their choice.
7
was drawn at 41 -- somewhere over 41 percent
8
Hispanic voting age population, and it was conceded
9
that 41 percent would not give Hispanics enough
It is not a Hispanic
And so that district
10
votes to elect a candidate of their choice today,
11
but it was believed that with time and possibly in
12
the very near future, given population shifts and
13
the growth of Hispanic population in Osceola
14
County, it could be very soon that Hispanics would
15
be able to elect a candidate of their choice.
16
that was the justification behind that jutting into
17
east of District 5.
18
So
The evidence also showed that the Legislature
19
designed Districts 13 and 14 to avoid diminishing
20
the ability of black and Hispanic voters in that
21
district to elect the candidates of their choice.
22
The evidence showed that, although neither
23
African-Americans nor Hispanics had a majority in
24
that district, together they did have the majority
25
and they seemed to vote together in elections.
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So
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1
it was called a coalition district where two
2
minorities voted together to elect candidates of
3
their choice.
4
together was to have District 14 go across Tampa
5
Bay into Pinellas County.
And the only way we could keep that
6
There was also evidence that the north/south
7
configuration of Districts 21 and 22 was logical,
8
producing the relatively compact districts that
9
divide no municipalities.
And, in fact, many of
10
the districts others had proposed, including the
11
Plaintiffs in our case, had the same configuration
12
of Districts 21 and 22.
13
Districts 26 and 27 in south Florida,
14
Miami-Dade County and Monroe, were drawn carefully
15
to preserve the ability of Hispanics to elect
16
candidates of their choice.
17
Hispanic districts, and the Legislature offered
18
expert testimony that alternative configurations
19
would jeopardize their ability to elect.
20
Those are majority
As far as District 15, the Legislature drew
21
that district to include both Bartow and Lakeland
22
in one district, which is certainly within the
23
discretion of the Legislature to do.
24
far as District 25, the Legislature retained the
25
boundary in Hendry County to ensure that all Hendry
And then, as
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1
County African-Americans who enjoyed an ability to
2
elect in the benchmark plan, continued to enjoy
3
ability to elect in District 20, which is adjacent
4
to District 25, and that's why you see District 20
5
shaped the way it is.
6
configuration is really a product of District 20.
7
So District 25's
The Court issued its opinion in this case, its
8
final judgment on July 10th, and it found that
9
Districts 5 and 10 were drawn in contravention of
10
constitutional mandates of Article III, Section 20,
11
and that is from page 1 of the Final Judgment which
12
I believe is in your meeting packet.
13
Districts 5 and 10 were drawn in contravention of
14
constitutional mandates of Article III, Section 20,
15
thus making the redistricting map unconstitutional
16
as drawn.
17
claims were rejected.
18
with 25 or Florida's 27 Congressional districts.
19
In District 5 the Court found that the
20
Legislature's concerns about vote dilution under
21
the Voting Rights Act, quote, "is not compelling
22
without some showing that it was legally necessary
23
to create a majority/minority district."
24
quote, "event" here was that that district had
25
already elected African-Americans to Congress
And it said
However, despite this ruling, all other
So the Court found no fault
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And what
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1
without going to a majority/minority district, and,
2
therefore, the Legislature could not justify why it
3
needed to go to 50 percent.
4
The Court concluded that the district
5
unnecessarily subjugates Tier Two principles of
6
compactness and, therefore, the district must be
7
redrawn as well as any surrounding districts
8
affected by the change.
9
sentence.
10
11
So two things in that
We talked about compactness and we
talked about Two Tier principles.
The Florida Supreme Court has said that you
12
cannot subjugate Two Tier principles unless it is
13
required by Tier One.
14
it was not drawn compact enough and it was not
15
justified in having that kind of configuration by
16
the minority voting protections.
17
And the Court believed that
The Court also found that District 10 -- and
18
here is District 10 again -- unnecessarily
19
subjugates Two Tier principles of compactness
20
because it contains -- it included an odd-shaped
21
appendage, and that is what we talked about, which
22
is that area between District 5 and District 9.
23
The Court stated that the Plaintiffs have
24
shown that the district could be drawn in a more
25
compact fashion avoiding this appendage.
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The
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1
Plaintiffs adduced multiple iterations emanating
2
from the House redistricting suite which did not
3
contain this appendage and were otherwise more
4
compact.
5
As far as Districts 13 and 14, the Court found
6
that the Plaintiffs failed to prove any Tier Two
7
deviations in those districts.
8
that the Plaintiffs did not demonstrate that the
9
decision to include portions of Pinellas County in
10
District 14 was a result of partisan now intent to
11
benefit the Republican Party.
12
The Court found
For Districts 21 and 22 the Court found that
13
Plaintiffs had not met their burden of showing
14
unnecessary deviation from Tier Two requirements,
15
given the various trade-offs to draw compact
16
districts in the region as a whole.
17
noted that an east/west configuration of the
18
districts may violate Tier One requirements for
19
minority protections in District 20.
20
The Court
For Districts 25, 26 and 27, the Court found
21
that alternative plans could have a regressive
22
affect on the Hispanic majority districts in south
23
Florida, and that any Two Tier differences between
24
the enacted plan and the Plaintiffs' alternatives
25
were de minimus.
Because the Plaintiffs abandoned
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1
their challenge to District 15 during the trial,
2
the Court did not address that district in its
3
opinion.
4
So that was the Final Judgment on July 10.
5
That judgment did not address at all what happens
6
next.
7
be redrawn.
8
motion to amend or alter the judgment about a week
9
later in which it asked the Judge to rule that it
10
is too late for 2014, to do anything about these
11
maps because the election process has already begun
12
for 2014, and that the 2014 election should proceed
13
under the 2012 map.
14
All it said was the districts would have to
So the legislative parties filed a
The Court held a hearing on that issue and
15
last Friday, on August 1st, the Court issued the
16
following order.
17
that order which I believe is also in your packet.
18
And this is on page 5 and 6 of
First, the Court ordered the Legislature to
19
submit a remedial or revised map by noon on
20
August 15.
21
Let me backtrack a little bit on that subject.
22
When the Legislature filed its motion to alter or
23
amend the judgment, the Plaintiffs in the case then
24
submitted their own map to the Court and said to
25
the Court, you can't wait.
Here is the map that we
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1
propose.
Adopt this map for the election.
2
The Legislature said it is the Legislature's
3
prerogative to draw a map, in the first instance,
4
and the Legislature should have a chance to redraw
5
these districts.
6
Plaintiffs' maps at least until we have a chance to
7
draw the maps.
8
reaction to that position giving us the
9
opportunity, albeit in a short amount of time, to
10
11
You should not consider the
And so this order is a partial
redraw the districts.
In the order the Court also ordered the
12
Secretary of State and the Supervisors of Elections
13
to present by noon on August 15th, which is next
14
Friday, a proposed special election schedule and
15
comments or suggestions regarding the conduct of
16
such an election assuming a revised map will be in
17
place no longer than August 21.
18
And I should emphasize that in this order, if
19
you haven't read it, the Court has not determined
20
yet what to do about the 2014 elections and which
21
maps should apply.
22
skepticism that it can do anything about these
23
elections, but has asked the Secretary of State and
24
the Supervisors of Elections to provide some
25
alternatives to see if it is possible to have
The Court has expressed
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1
elections in 2014 under a revised map, or whether
2
it is simply too late at this point, but the Court
3
has not made any decision on that issue yet.
4
if you look further down the order, any objections
5
to the remedial map or election schedule must be
6
submitted by noon on August 18th, and then the
7
Court will have a hearing on August 20th in order
8
to decide on any objections and decide on the map.
9
10
11
That is all I have.
And,
I believe Mr. Meros will
now address.
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Yes, thank you, Justice.
12
And what we will do is go into you, Mr. Meros, and,
13
Mr. Bardos, I don't know if you have any
14
presentation, and then we will take questions from
15
the panel.
16
MR. MEROS:
Thank you Chairs, members.
George
17
Meros and Andy Bardos from Gray Robinson.
18
the honor and privilege to represent the Florida
19
House of Representatives in this matter.
20
me, I am a little hoarse, so hopefully my voice
21
will last.
22
We had
Excuse
I wanted to focus a little bit on minority
23
districts.
CD 5, Congressional District 5 is at
24
the heart of this case, and I wanted to give the
25
committee some historical perspective on minority
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1
districts, how they came about, why they are and
2
what this Legislature should be thinking about with
3
regard to a remedial map.
4
Most importantly, minority districts are not
5
drawn to favor or disfavor Democrats or
6
Republicans.
7
unfortunately, racial discrimination in voting
8
persists in Florida and in other parts of the
9
country and that is manifested in this way.
10
They are drawn because,
African-Americans in many parts of Florida, in
11
many places elsewhere, vote cohesively for
12
African-American candidates.
13
portions of Florida and elsewhere, there is white
14
block voting that continues to persist where whites
15
block -- vote to block the African-American
16
candidate.
17
primary where an African-American Democrat will
18
lose a primary to a white Democrat and not
19
ultimately be elected.
20
Unfortunately, in
That often occurs in a Democratic
When you combine that with areas of Florida or
21
elsewhere where there is a history of racial
22
discrimination, where that history is a part of
23
many of the socioeconomic and other challenges that
24
the community might face, Federal law and Florida
25
law, and, most specifically, Amendment VI says that
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1
there must be an opportunity to have districts
2
where the African-American vote actually will count
3
and will not be diluted or diminished.
4
That -- I think most fundamentally the
5
committee needs to understand that in 2010, when
6
the voters passed Amendment VI, they said to this
7
Legislature that is the primary goal, the primary
8
Tier One admonition to this Legislature, and that
9
is the rights of African-Americans and other
10
minorities to have their vote count, will not be
11
diluted and will not be diminished.
12
what -- that is a fundamental part of what the
13
Legislature has to do in coming up with a legal
14
map.
So that is
15
It is also important to understand that,
16
again, this is not a matter of historical artifact,
17
these things continue to exist.
18
very compelling testimony at trial from witnesses
19
from Marion County, from Alachua County, from
20
Orange County about the continuing problem with
21
white block voting and racial discrimination.
22
And there was some
Evelyn Fox from Alachua, a representative from
23
the NAACP, testified that no African-American had
24
ever been elected county-wide in Alachua County.
25
African-Americans had tried to get elected to
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1
Sheriff a number of times, had not been elected.
2
Whitfield Jenkins, a champion of African-American
3
rights and NAACP President for many years from
4
Marion County, testified that no African-American
5
has ever been elected to the County Commission
6
since reconstruction.
7
area only three African-Americans have ever been
8
elected to the City Commission.
9
encompassed within a minority district.
Since reconstruction in that
Those are areas
That is
10
the sort of testimony, the sorts of reality that
11
continues to exist not only in Florida, but
12
elsewhere.
13
about the Tier One requirements.
14
That is why we have to be very careful
Now, let me go to CD 5 specifically and the
15
history of CD 5, and unfortunately I am old enough
16
to be able to tell you what happened because I was
17
there in the litigation from 1990.
18
had a situation where in Florida there had not been
19
an African-American Congressperson since
20
reconstruction.
21
And in 1990, we
What happened there and elsewhere is that
22
districts were drawn in all of the areas with a
23
minority population of from 10, 15, 20, 30 percent
24
that elected a white Democrat.
25
Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights, and others said
The NAACP, the
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1
enough is enough and brought suit in Federal court
2
to compel the drawing of a district that would
3
elect an African-American candidate.
4
A three-judge Federal court in 1990 did just
5
that.
It drew the original CD 5.
That CD 5 you
6
will see is certainly not a model of compactness,
7
and if -- Jeff, if you can, and I believe that's
8
number one, yes.
9
that that district goes from Orange to Duval and
And you will see there in 1992
10
then around like a horseshoe down to Marion County,
11
clearly not a model of compactness, but here is why
12
that district looked that way:
13
these minority communities the white block voting
14
was sufficient to never permit African-Americans to
15
be elected.
16
Without combining
Now, in 1996, after decisions came down from
17
the U.S. Supreme Court saying that districts cannot
18
be drawn solely or predominantly on account of race
19
under the Equal Protection Clause, there was a
20
challenge to that district as drawn in the
21
horseshoe.
22
violated equal protection and a Federal District
23
Court drew the district that you see before you as
24
a remedy for that, as a remedy to challenge the
25
sort of contentions that you hear now.
The Federal Court found that it
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So, in 1996
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1
2
that district was drawn.
Now, notably that district was drawn in that
3
fashion by a Florida Legislature as a remedy for
4
the Federal Court that was a bipartisan
5
Legislature.
6
The Senate had a Democratic majority, and all but
7
three House Representatives voted for that and 40
8
Senators voted for that.
9
The House had a Republican majority.
And what you will see since then is similar
10
iterations from Duval to Orange County.
11
to 2002, you see what Justice Cantero said is the
12
benchmark plan that goes from Duval over to Alachua
13
and Orange.
14
honor to represent the House of Representatives.
15
At that time, we were sued by Democratic interests
16
alleging that that district did not have enough
17
African-American population.
18
47 percent, I could be wrong, but we were sued for
19
that and we had to defend against that suit.
20
were successful in defending that suit, but,
21
nonetheless, we were sued.
22
enacted map looks like this.
23
If you go
And notably in 2000, again, I had the
It was approximately
We
And then in 2012, the
Now, one immediately might wonder why combine
24
those communities.
Well, what you will see is you
25
are combining African-American communities in
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1
Duval, Marion, Alachua, Putnam Counties and Orange
2
Counties for historical reasons that are not by
3
accident and not by simply grabbing population.
4
Dr. Robert Cassanello, a specialist in
5
African-American history from the University of
6
Central Florida, testified in this case.
7
And he testified -- and this is his area of
8
research -- about the historical migration patterns
9
of African-Americans in the early 20th century that
10
were -- that went along railroad lines and river
11
lines because of discrimination in employment and
12
discrimination in zoning matters, and that one will
13
see in the development of this part of Florida in
14
that time that the railroad lines from Duval County
15
to Orange were exactly consistent with the
16
migration of the population, that river routes
17
consistently were similar as well to Alachua.
18
And so it was -- these were communities that
19
were -- by virtue of the circumstances in which
20
they found themselves, were forced into areas that
21
were not necessarily geographically compact.
22
that is one of the standards and analysis that you
23
have to do when it comes to a minority area, and
24
that is:
25
concerns among the African-American population, and
And
Are there similar interests and shared
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1
if there is, and if there are, then compactness is
2
not a matter of aesthetics or geographic
3
compactness.
4
the communities share concerns and common
5
interests, and, if so, one can be compelled, at
6
risk of Federal lawsuit or State lawsuit, to divide
7
that community.
8
9
Compactness is a matter of whether
So that is basically the history of CD 5 and
the history as to why it is drawn in the
10
north/south configuration and why it is drawn in a
11
way that is not necessarily aesthetically pleasing.
12
Now, going to the Tier Two standards that this
13
Legislature must deal with in the next few days and
14
that is I want to focus on the issue of
15
diminishment.
16
one shall not diminish the opportunity of
17
African-Americans or other minorities to elect
18
their candidates of choice.
19
following:
20
Federal Voting Rights Act, and what it means in
21
essence is you take the ability of a minority group
22
in the predecessor map, the 2002 map, the
23
benchmark, and you assess what opportunity did that
24
population have to elect a candidate of choice.
25
You then impose the 2010 population into that same
Diminishment -- the law says that
What that means is the
It is an analogue to Section V of the
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1
area, and then you look at the district that is
2
being proposed, and you have to assess whether the
3
population in that area is more, less or just as
4
able to elect a candidate of choice.
5
less able to elect a candidate of choice, that is
6
diminishment.
7
And, if it is
That is a remarkably strict standard which the
8
people of Florida imposed on this Legislature.
9
What it means is not necessarily, if you have
10
100 -- exactly 100 minorities in a hypothetical
11
district, you cannot take it to 99
12
African-Americans.
13
is some lessening of the ability to elect, then
14
that population cannot backslide.
15
backwards.
But what it means is, if there
It cannot go
16
Now, others who want to dismantle minority
17
districts would say that it is only diminishment if
18
you take a district from being 100-percent likely
19
to elect an African-American candidate and you take
20
that to a tossup district, a 50/50 district, then
21
that is not diminishment.
22
it less likely than before that it is a
23
diminishment.
24
counsel and my counsel to you, to be contrary to
25
what the Florida Supreme Court said, what the
It is only if you make
That is plainly, in my view as
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1
language of diminishment is, what the supporters of
2
Amendment VI told this Legislature in a combined
3
session.
4
So one has to remember that in areas of
5
significant minority population if you draw
6
districts and makes it less likely to elect, that
7
violates the State law that compels us to preserve.
8
Now, there are, there have been assertions and
9
there may well be in this session about dismantling
10
that district, taking Alachua County out, taking
11
Marion County out, taking parts of Putnam County
12
out and having an east/west configuration of a
13
district that would run from Duval County to
14
Chattahoochee.
15
I would counsel this committee, these
16
committees, Senators and Representatives, to reject
17
that notion because it is my considered opinion
18
that that violates not only the first tier of
19
Amendment VI, but the Tier Two compactness
20
requirements.
21
there is a map that has been filed in court as a
22
proposed remedy by the Plaintiffs.
23
see, that goes from -- well, you can't see it, but
24
I will tell you that it goes from Duval County all
25
the way to Chattahoochee, Florida, a distance of
And the map you have in front of you
And, as you can
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1
2
206 miles.
Now, the Legislature has been criticized for
3
creating a district of CD 5 of 140 some miles.
4
That's 206 with a remarkable perimeter.
5
Now, first, looking at the Tier One issues,
6
the question is, does that diminish the opportunity
7
of the minority population to elect a candidate of
8
choice?
9
assess that against the 2002 benchmark, and when
The first thing you have to do there is to
10
you do that what you see is that, along all
11
measures of political performance and election
12
performance, that district is less likely to elect
13
a candidate of choice than the benchmark 2002
14
district.
15
If I can find my chart there and ask you to go
16
to that -- well, I have a highlight here.
17
your packet but available to you as a one page of
18
diminishment that we have available, but I was just
19
going to provide you with a highlight of that if I
20
can flop around here and find it.
21
10, 11, 12.
22
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
23
have a handout.
24
MR. MEROS:
25
well.
Okay.
Yes.
Not in
So it is
Mr. Meros, I believe we all
You have the handout as
These are simply excerpts from the handout.
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So the handout gives you the full picture.
2
are simply excerpts.
3
These
And what you will see with regard to black
4
voting age population in the benchmark district is
5
49.9 percent in the benchmark and a reduction in an
6
east/west district of almost five percent.
7
Hispanic voting age population a reduction of four
8
and a half percent.
9
white voting age population in the east/west CD
10
that is 8.6 percent higher than in the benchmark
11
district.
12
And, very notably here, a
Now, in my view looking at this alone, there
13
is no question that it makes it less likely for an
14
African-American candidate to win in an east/west
15
configuration than in the benchmark.
16
to the next slide, which is African-American voter
17
turnout, you will see that in the 2012 general
18
election, in the east/west configuration 47, it was
19
only 47 -- the black population was only 47.6
20
percent of the turnout, a 4.2 percent difference,
21
and then look down at the 2010 Democratic Primary,
22
a 7.9 percent difference, again, clearly weakening,
23
lessening the ability of the African-American
24
population.
25
And if you go
If you go to election results, you will see
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the benchmark and Kendrick Meek, Marco Rubio and
2
Charlie Crist, and there you will see that in
3
benchmark CD 3, Kendrick Meek had a margin of
4
victory of 16.2 percent, in the east/west CD 5 a
5
margin of victory of 4.5 percent.
6
If you look at the election results with
7
Kendrick Meek, he received 48.9 percent in the
8
benchmark and only 40.5 percent in the east/west
9
configuration.
10
11
So all of those are absolute red
flags.
Now, the last -- and we have been up here a
12
long time and I will try to rush through this.
13
I want to go back to the Tier Two problems with an
14
east/west configuration.
15
But
Compactness is fundamentally a visual matter
16
first, and you will see here notably -- you talk
17
about appendages, you talk about irregular lines,
18
this to me looks like a surf board that was
19
attacked by jaws in any number of different places
20
and that is the sort of thing, when you see that,
21
you have to say why.
22
justified under Tier One?
23
under Tier One because it is a diminishment.
24
end-to-end length of 206 miles is extraordinary.
25
And let's reconfigure that to show just how far
Is it justified?
Is it
No, it is not justified
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that is.
2
Jacksonville to Sebring.
3
That is the same district that goes from
The next configuration goes from Miami to
4
Dunedin, and the next, which is my favorite, goes
5
from Naples to Havanna.
6
that that is a reasonably compact district that
7
serves as a reasonable alternative to a district
8
that was created by a Federal court in 1992 and
9
1996.
One is hard pressed to say
10
And, lastly, when one does an east/west
11
configuration like that, the impact it has on the
12
surrounding districts is dramatic.
13
here, if there is an east/west district, you see
14
what District 2 would look like.
15
District 2 here is 241 miles, now 100 miles longer
16
than the Legislature's CD 5, and it has a perimeter
17
of 1,010 miles.
18
perimeter and have it as string, that string would
19
run from Tallahassee to Toronto, and there is no
20
reason to do that because in the other iterations
21
Districts 1, 2 and 3 are exceedingly compact.
22
People don't have to drive 241 miles to their
23
Congressperson, and the Congressperson doesn't have
24
to drive 241 miles to their constituents.
25
are among the issues that I would counsel in terms
And you see
End to end
If one were to open up that
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of minority districts and have them comply with the
2
Amendment VI requirements.
3
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
4
Okay.
Thank you, Mr. Meros.
Members, we are going to go into
5
questions from any of the presenters today.
6
Before we do that, I would remind both
7
presenters and the panel that we do have a pending
8
lawsuit.
9
strategic decisions or privilege or other
So there may be areas that involve
10
protections.
11
counsel if that is the case and we will try to
12
watch out from the dais.
13
14
15
So feel free to raise that with
So, with that, Leader Smith, you are
recognized for a question or a comment.
LEADER SMITH:
A quick question.
I guess it
16
keeps coming up and no one has really addressed it.
17
And especially I would like to hear from
18
Senate counsel, former justice, if the Court's
19
finding that these districts, say CD 5 and 10 --
20
would you characterize the Court's finding that
21
these districts are unconstitutional?
22
you would --
23
JUSTICE CANTERO:
24
LEADER SMITH:
25
Is that how
As they were drawn, yes.
So now, going back to the
timeline of elections, how can we have citizens
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vote in an unconstitutional -- for an
2
unconstitutional drawn seat?
3
deal with the timeline if, in fact, it is the
4
finding of the courts that they're
5
unconstitutional?
6
JUSTICE CANTERO:
How do we propose to
There are many cases that
7
have held that elections can proceed under
8
unconstitutional districts where insufficient time
9
remains to redraw the districts before the upcoming
10
election.
And we had testimony at the last hearing
11
before Judge Lewis that this 2014 election has
12
started already, that overseas ballots have been
13
sent and returned.
14
the primary elections in this state already, and
15
courts have held that, when such is the case, it is
16
appropriate because there is no other alternative
17
to hold the upcoming election under the old map.
People have actually voted in
18
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
19
LEADER SMITH:
20
21
You are recognized.
You gave a good analysis of the
Court's finding and how the Court came to that.
What about some of the other findings because,
22
as we move forward, I am a little concerned that
23
some of the other findings that you didn't discuss.
24
That were findings that there were collusions and
25
others?
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2
3
Were you counsel for the Senate during this
time, during the time that we drew the last maps?
JUSTICE CANTERO:
No, sir, I came in -- when
4
the Florida Supreme Court invalidated the Senate
5
map in March of 2012, I was hired just after that.
6
7
LEADER SMITH:
were you counsel during this time?
8
MR. MEROS:
9
LEADER SMITH:
10
JUSTICE MEROS:
11
12
Could I ask then, Mr. Meros,
Was I counsel for the House?
For the House.
Absolutely, yes.
So I will be
happy to answer any questions you have.
LEADER SMITH:
Were there in fact other --
13
some of these findings of facts -- and I am not
14
saying this just to be sensational, but I am saying
15
this, as we move forward, that I'm -- you know, I
16
understand the process as we move forward on.
17
What is your take on some of the findings of
18
fact that some of these meetings were held and we
19
were getting maps secondary to strategists to
20
getting maps?
21
MR. MEROS:
Let me first say that the Judge
22
made no findings that House or Senate leadership,
23
House or Senate members or staff received specific
24
information and acted on that information from
25
outside sources.
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In fact, the Court found and credited the
2
credibility of all of the map drawers and lauded
3
Senate and House leadership from -- by their
4
ability to keep them away from outside influences.
5
There is no question that it came out and,
6
unbeknownst to all of us, that draft maps were
7
being sent by a member in the House Redistricting
8
Suite to a political consultant.
9
He testified that he did so because political
10
consultants make their living on trying to find out
11
what is going to happen, but, nonetheless, it was
12
absolutely the wrong thing to do.
13
No issue about that.
14
share maps, share evaluations, obviously tried to
15
get into the process, but I would hasten to add
16
there is no finding that the Court said that one
17
person, one legislator or one staff member or one
18
lawyer ever did anything at the behest of a
19
political consultant.
He admits it.
The political consultants did
20
What he found was, I choose to infer that
21
because I see the shape of the district, that there
22
was an improper intent in drawing it that way
23
because there was not a sufficient justification
24
under Tier Two.
25
political emaciations going on by the consultants?
Was the Judge happy with the
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2
No.
Were we happy with it?
SENATOR GIBSON:
No.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
And
3
this is for Justice Cantero.
4
very good explanation of the ruling on which I have
5
a question.
6
Thank you for your
In your explanation and in the Order, I guess,
7
where it says, "I find that Plaintiffs have proved
8
that District 5 unnecessarily subjugates Tier Two
9
principles of compactness," and when -- my question
10
is in terms of this Order for the benefit of
11
proceeding on a map, is the Judge in your opinion
12
saying that the subjugation of the Tier Two
13
principles of compactness deals more with
14
performance than it does with any of the shape
15
scores that you mentioned, because I don't -- there
16
is no Reock score mentioned in here and there's
17
no -- I forget the name of the other one.
18
the compactness that is referred to in here based
19
solely on the performance figures that precede that
20
particular paragraph?
21
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Justice.
22
JUSTICE CANTERO:
Thank you.
So is
Senator Gibson,
23
I believe that the Order mentions, but if it
24
doesn't mention, the evidence showed that District
25
5 had a Reock score of .09, and I think the Judge
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based his decision more than anything on the fact
2
that District 5 jutted into Seminole County.
3
compared the Senate version or the enacted version
4
of the plan which jutted into Seminole County with
5
the House's 9043 version which did not have that
6
extension into Seminole County and, because of the
7
lack of extension, the black voting age population
8
was reduced from 49.9 percent in the benchmark plan
9
to 48.03 percent in 9043.
He
But the Judge noted that
10
the House had conducted a functional analysis of
11
that district and that it would still perform for
12
minorities at 48.03 percent.
13
decided that it was not necessary to go into
14
Seminole County in order to protect minority voting
15
rights, therefore, that going into Seminole County
16
was unjustified.
17
18
19
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
So that is why he
Follow up, you are
recognized.
SENATOR GIBSON:
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
And in
20
all of that and in his order then, there is no
21
mention that I see that would require us to propose
22
a plan that goes all over the state essentially
23
because the compactness is pretty limited.
24
25
JUSTICE CANTERO:
an alternative.
The Order does not suggest
In fact, in the August 1 Order,
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the Judge agreed with the Legislature that it
2
wasn't the prerogative of the Court to give
3
direction necessarily about how to redraw the
4
districts.
5
His only authority was to determine whether
6
the districts as drawn were constitutional or not.
7
The judgment also does not ever indicate that a
8
minority district going from Jacksonville to
9
Orlando would be unconstitutional and that a
10
minority district going from Jacksonville west
11
towards Gadsden County would be constitutional or
12
would be necessary to remedy any constitutional
13
defects in the plan.
14
15
16
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Leader Smith, a quick
comment.
LEADER SMITH:
Mr. Justice, I guess it would
17
be a short turn around, but at least by Monday or
18
Tuesday -- by Monday could you get me some of those
19
cases that you mentioned earlier that the courts
20
have allowed voting in unconstitutional
21
circumstances?
22
JUSTICE CANTERO:
Yes, Your Honor.
If you
23
would let me know where you would like me to send
24
it, I could do it by today.
25
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Justice, we will facilitate
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that.
2
need.
3
We will make sure staff gets you what you
Are there any questions?
4
Rodriguez, you are recognized.
5
REPRESENTATIVE RODRIGUEZ:
Representative
I guess as a House
6
member, I guess it could be from either Senate or
7
House counsel, but as a House member, I will direct
8
it to House counsel.
9
And this is -- for clarification for us, we
10
are here in special session to basically fix what
11
the Court has said about the District 5 and 10.
12
And my question relates specifically to how the
13
Tier One standard is applied.
14
your presentations of how Section 20 and the Voting
15
Rights Act combine with respect to minorities, I
16
got the sense that -- I think it was Senate counsel
17
who mentioned majority/minority districts a few
18
times.
19
Rights Act, which is extremely complicated
20
obviously now as to how it has been changed or
21
interpreted by the Executive, by the court system
22
and by the Congress.
23
And, in listening to
I know it was in reference to the Voting
And my understanding is that many of -- you
24
know, much of the jurisprudence talks about
25
coalition districts, opportunity districts,
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minority influence in terms of how districts are
2
evaluated under the Voting Rights Act, and, of
3
course, this is a case of first impression in terms
4
of Section 20, but if you could give us clarity,
5
you know, as simple and straightforward as possible
6
in terms of how we should apply the Tier One
7
standard, both, you know, obviously incorporating
8
the requirement that we comply with Federal law.
9
10
MR. MEROS:
Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE RODRIGUEZ:
And just to be
11
clear, because, you know, again, we're going to --
12
you know, if there is a map that comes before our
13
respective committees, we are going to need to
14
apply Tier One in deciding on that map.
15
on your presentations, it is not 100 percent clear
16
to me exactly what the standard is in terms of
17
retrogression, dilution or whatever is new under
18
Section 20 with respect to how we should decide
19
that.
20
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
21
MR. MEROS:
And, based
You are recognized.
Sure, that's a daunting task, and
22
so I won't to spend 30 minutes on it, but let me
23
give you outline.
24
25
First of all, I would suggest that you look at
that portion of the Florida Supreme Court decision
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from May 9 of 2002, which was on the State House
2
and Senate plans.
3
authoritatively construes Amendment V and VI in a
4
substantial way in a number of these things, and
5
comes up with some very direct definitions or
6
direct instruction.
7
And the Court lays out and
But going to your question with regard to the
8
Tier One minority requirements, the first portion
9
of that language is effectively Section 2 of the
10
Federal Voting Rights Act which is a vote dilution
11
standard.
12
simple terms as I can make it without it being too
13
long, is that, if you have a minority population
14
that is sufficiently large and geographically
15
compact to constitute an African-American or
16
minority population of at least 50 percent, and
17
there is racially polarized voting and there is
18
white block voting and there are some other
19
considerations, then Section 2 would say that the
20
failure to do so is a violation of the rights of a
21
member of that population whose vote has been
22
diluted.
23
And a vote dilution standard, in as
Now, let me give you an example of how that
24
might apply specifically in this instance.
25
will recall that there was testimony from Justice
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Cantero about the Seminole County -- the incursion
2
of CD 5 in Seminole County in taking
3
African-American population out of Sanford into CD
4
5 as it has been.
5
In the negotiations -- in the ultimate
6
negotiations, the House had drawn a Congressional
7
District 5 of around 48 and a half percent.
8
Senate had drawn over 50 percent.
9
parties came together at doing it at over
The
Ultimately the
10
50 percent.
11
one cannot say whether it's -- who would win on
12
either side, but it is at least arguable that,
13
because of the Bartman v. Strickland case which
14
said, if it's less than 50 percent, there are no
15
Section 2 rights, that it is at least arguable that
16
one could say that that population has to remain in
17
a 50 percent district or they could sue under
18
Section 2 for failure to have a district of
19
50 percent.
20
reasonable argument.
21
it this way.
22
Either side has a reasonable argument, but we are
23
happy to err on the side of avoiding that sort of
24
litigation, but that would be an example.
25
Because it is at least arguable and
And so the House said that is a
We thought that we would do
You thought to do it this way.
Diminishment and retrogression is, of course,
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different, as I said, but the Supreme Court has
2
said that it is the standard -- it is effectively
3
the Section 5 standard, importantly, as explained
4
in the Congressional authorization of the 2006
5
Congressional authorization Voting Rights Act.
6
And in that the Court, the Supreme Court
7
expressly said that the diminishment standard is
8
whether or not the minority community is less able,
9
just as able, or not as able or more able to elect
10
11
a candidate of choice.
So it is a sliding scale.
It is not as some
12
people say a dichotomous value.
13
has made that explicit.
14
diminishment standard and those are two very
15
different standards.
16
The Supreme Court
So that is the
Now the one thing I would add with regard to
17
that is the intent, the prohibition against intent
18
to favor or disfavor clearly does not apply when
19
one is required by the racial protections to --
20
under Tier One to protect a district, whether it is
21
a majority/minority district or it is a
22
historically performing less than 50 percent
23
district.
24
25
In other words, you have to look at minority
performance in trying to assure in drawing a
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district that the African-American will have an
2
opportunity to elect a candidate of choice.
3
non-racial area, in an area with a small number of
4
minorities, if you were to do that and to do an
5
analysis that says, okay, how can I make sure that
6
this Senator is elected, that would be a violation
7
of the intent standard.
8
protections, that is not an improper intent to
9
favor or disfavor.
10
11
12
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
In a
With regard to minority
Follow up, you are
recognized.
REPRESENTATIVE RODRIGUEZ:
Thank you, Mr.
13
Chair, in following up with respect to each of the
14
districts.
15
correct me if I am wrong, but is it your opinion
16
that as a matter of law in drawing District 5, it
17
has to be at least 50 percent minority voting age
18
population?
19
So with respect to District 5, please
MR. MEROS:
It is a debatable point.
That's
20
exactly what happened when the House had 48 and a
21
half and the Senate had 50.
22
2009, Bartman v. Strickland came out and said that
23
Section 2 only protects populations if it's at
24
least 50 percent.
25
of that time.
You recall in that
So that is a bright-line rule as
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So then the question is, when you are drawing
2
a district and you have -- and, by the way,
3
everyone concedes in this litigation that there is
4
racially polarized voting in northeast Florida and
5
that there is white block voting.
6
satisfied.
7
history of racial discrimination in voting in that
8
area and other areas.
So that is
Everyone concedes that there is a
9
So then the question is, well, might the
10
circumstances support the other pre-conditions and
11
the other Senate factors and be a viable or winning
12
lawsuit.
13
litigation occurs.
14
until you are sued.
15
There is no way to tell until that
So the answer is you don't know
And what the Legislature tried to do was say,
16
let's take away the possibility of that suit by
17
taking it to 50 percent.
18
there will be a District 5 that is less than
19
50 percent and the Legislature will be potentially
20
subject to a Federal lawsuit because of that, and
21
no one knows.
And where we are now is
22
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
You are recognized.
23
REPRESENTATIVE RODRIGUEZ:
Thank you, Mr.
24
Chair.
And with respect to, I guess it would be
25
District 10, in that case -- again, correct me if I
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am wrong -- but it would be the diminishment
2
factor.
3
apply that diminishment standard in that case.
4
And if you could talk through how we would
MR. MEROS:
The diminishing standard would
5
apply to District 10 because District 10 does not
6
have a significant minority population to have the
7
ability to elect.
8
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Yes, follow up question.
9
REPRESENTATIVE RODRIGUEZ:
Thank you,
10
Mr. Chair.
And the Judge said that in the opinion.
11
And is that -- and this is a follow up on something
12
that I believe you had mentioned in your
13
presentation which is that, in making the analysis
14
with respect to District 10, that you would use the
15
benchmark, but 2010 population numbers.
16
I guess what I am getting at is, with respect
17
to what the Judge was looking at was based on data
18
four years old or 14 years old?
19
sense?
20
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
21
MR. MEROS:
Does that make
Mr. Meros.
You were talking about a
22
diminishment standard which uses a benchmark, but
23
that doesn't apply to looking at District 10
24
because, whether it was 10 years ago or now, that
25
is not a district where there is anywhere near a
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1
sufficient minority community to elect a candidate
2
of choice.
3
minorities have had some chance.
So you only do that in areas where
4
What the Court was saying with regard to
5
District 10 is, okay, the House had a district that
6
was more compact than the Senate.
7
again, part of the negotiation was we have an
8
emerging Hispanic population in central Florida
9
that didn't exist before, and so what to do with
10
11
In negotiations,
that population.
And, in a reasonably compact District 9, you
12
could take that district from 39 percent, which was
13
what the House did, to approximately 42 percent,
14
which is what the Senate suggested, and make that
15
district a -- pretty soon, a Hispanic performing
16
district.
17
Now when you do that and increase the Hispanic
18
population, there is a population of non-Hispanic,
19
non-black in the southern and eastern portion of
20
lower CD 5 that has to be placed somewhere, and
21
that's one of things things in redistricting, there
22
is trade-offs, you have to get to zero population,
23
zero plus one.
24
The best of not-so-good alternatives was
25
putting that appendage in District 10, but we
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1
argued to the Judge that was that was precisely in
2
order to enable the Hispanic population to elect a
3
candidate of choice as soon as possible, and, in
4
addition, what the Legislature did remarkably well
5
in the end of the negotiations was, while these
6
changes were being made, staff was able to go back
7
and decrease city splits, decrease county splits,
8
and improve preservation of those entities by a
9
factor of, for about eight or 10 cities and
10
counties, better metrics than any other map had
11
ever had.
12
The Court said, well, that is laudable, but I
13
still think this is non-compact.
14
to me is a standard that is somewhat higher than
15
city or county splits, and because CD 9, the
16
Hispanic district is not yet at 50 percent and,
17
thus, not protected under the Voting Rights Act,
18
there wasn't a compulsion to do so.
19
you violate Tier Two standards in CD 10 by virtue
20
of this non-compact appendage.
21
22
23
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Non-compactness
So I find that
Senator Montford, you are
recognized.
SENATOR MONTFORD:
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
24
may go back to the Plaintiffs' east/west
25
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If I
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JUSTICE MEROS:
Yes.
2
SENATOR MONTFORD:
-- I appreciate your
3
analysis of that, but help me understand where that
4
fits in the process.
5
particular proposal in the scheme, the whole
6
scheme?
7
JUSTICE MEROS:
Where are we in terms of that
Well, I imagine -- well, first
8
of all, the Court has before it a request by the
9
Plaintiffs to have an east/west configuration
10
imposed on the Legislature.
11
Legislature has the right to draw the map, and so
12
now it is before the Legislature.
13
The Court has said the
I would imagine that there will be a proposal
14
that has that east/west configuration before the
15
Legislature to draw, and so that's how I think it
16
will come up.
17
SENATOR MONTFORD:
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
18
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Senator Simmons, you are
19
recognized.
20
SENATOR SIMMONS:
21
JUSTICE MEROS:
22
SENATOR SIMMONS:
Good afternoon.
Good afternoon.
Mr. Meros, obviously we have
23
to look at this from the perspective that there is
24
a court order and, whether we believe it is right
25
or wrong right now, that is the court order and
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that is the set of parameters within which we are
2
dealing.
3
And so I am looking at -- at the Final
4
Judgment, and I am on page 25, if you want to
5
follow along.
6
7
8
9
10
11
JUSTICE MEROS:
I think I might have memorized
it, but go ahead.
SENATOR SIMMONS:
And I am in the last
paragraph of page 25, and this is the prelude to my
question to you.
It is talking about the fact -- and he spent a
12
lot of time talking about the fact that -- first,
13
that he had looked at the ability -- he had the
14
ability to judge the demeanor of the staff.
15
on page 22, and he found them to be frank,
16
straightforward and credible.
17
infiltration.
18
That's
There was no
And, as a matter of fact, I read this as a
19
case in which the conduct of political operatives
20
was, in fact, imputed to the Legislature, and he
21
says on page 25 at the last paragraph, "The reality
22
and the irony is that there would be absolutely
23
nothing wrong about the attendees at those meetings
24
submitting proposed maps or partial maps.
25
difference is, if done in the open, then those
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reviewing the submissions could take into account
2
the source in evaluating whether it was neutral or
3
whether it might tend to favor or disfavor a
4
political party or an incumbent.
5
political consultants lamented that, if he had
6
submitted maps in his own name, he would probably
7
have come under attack, accused of trying to favor
8
his party or its incumbents.
9
submission might be closely scrutinized in the same
One of the
Well, of course, his
10
way that a proposed map submitted by the Florida
11
Democratic Party might be taken with a grain of
12
salt.
13
about improper partisan intent influencing the
14
drawing of the map."
That's how it should be if one is concerned
15
Then he goes on and he says --
16
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
17
18
Senator Simmons, is there a
question?
SENATOR SIMMONS:
Okay.
My question is, he
19
ends up talking about it and he ends up saying that
20
ultimately resolving that we have to know who and
21
what -- who is ultimately submitting a map.
22
if, in fact, we don't inquire -- because if we turn
23
to page 27, that is basically what he says.
24
you choose, however, to accept and perhaps rely
25
upon publicly submitted maps, it seems to me that
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"If
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you should have a way to address the possible, nay,
2
probable partisan intent of the drafters of at
3
least some of those maps.
4
was apparently to ignore it."
5
The Legislature's answer
We cannot ignore who ultimately prepared and
6
is presenting the Plaintiffs' maps.
7
the Plaintiffs' maps -- if we don't get into who
8
does that, then we can't consider it according to
9
the way I read his, his ruling.
10
If, in fact,
And so we must ask, number one, who actually
11
prepared Plaintiffs' map.
Was it paid for by the
12
Democratic Party, and all matters relating to that.
13
Is there an answer to that so that we can then take
14
it with a grain of salt?
15
JUSTICE MEROS:
Well, Senator, I think that
16
you well identify a dilemma because, on the one
17
hand, if you inquire and interrogate, then you are
18
going to discourage public participation.
19
also require staff to spend half of its time trying
20
to probe into the possible motivation of what could
21
be many, many people.
You will
22
I think for present purposes, unfortunately
23
because of the way this is, that the Legislature
24
has to at least try to be cognizant of when maps
25
are submitted to this Legislature in this
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legislative session.
2
the motivations behind those submitting it,
3
unfortunately.
4
One has to be careful about
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Can I come back to you
5
because Chair Corcoran wanted to make a comment?
6
Thank you, Senator.
7
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Thank you, Senator.
8
just want to -- you know, Leader Smith had
9
mentioned it to me -- at our session when we
I
10
convened, I had a discussion with Leader Thurston
11
and some of my colleagues on the Democratic side,
12
and to Leader Smith's earlier comments, I mean,
13
clearly what I would like to say is that I think
14
that some of -- the genesis is that's what Justice
15
Lewis said, how do we, you know -- to my colleagues
16
that have mentioned, how do we -- how is this going
17
to be different?
18
that wasn't going to be something that was at
19
issue.
20
We heard it was going to be --
How is this going to be different?
I mean, I would just like to start by saying
21
that both Senator Galvano and myself sent out memos
22
to all of our colleagues and we made it clear,
23
which was not done in the past, that you will have
24
no conversations with congressional members, no
25
conversations with congressional members or staff.
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You will have no conversations with political
2
consultants.
3
To the extent that those conversations at any
4
point in time take place in a partisan manner, you
5
will report it to us directly and disregard it
6
completely to our staff.
7
In addition to that, to your point, Senator
8
Simmons, we said, if you do submit a plan -- and we
9
gave a lengthy list -- we want to know specifically
10
the identity of every person in the drawing, the
11
reviewing, the directing and the approving of the
12
proposed plan, the criteria they used, the sources
13
of the data in the creation of the map and the data
14
other than what is in My District Builder, should
15
explain the nature of any functional analysis
16
performed and that the proposal satisfies all the
17
Constitutional criteria.
18
I say all of that in that, and speaking on
19
behalf of Senator Galvano, I think that what you
20
all have voiced is readily apparent, and to that
21
extent we clearly know it's -- we wouldn't even be
22
here if there wasn't something that
23
constitutionally was viewed as awry by a Circuit
24
Court Judge.
25
He was very deliberative, but we believe that
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in this process we have enforced it thoroughly.
2
also recognize that the likelihood all of us would
3
be deposed is probably pretty great, and my answer
4
to a deposition that may or may not occur in the
5
future or here in this room is we have had zero
6
conversations with political consultants, zero
7
conversations with Congressional members.
8
not have those conversations.
9
We
We will
We will ask where you got your maps and what
10
the genesis were.
11
our genesis was and where we got our maps, how we
12
worked it out, and I think that this process will
13
be truly, hopefully something that can be
14
replicated in the future, but I just -- I think we
15
are going to get a lot of this, I think they are
16
legitimate and I had this conversation with Leader
17
Thurston, but I think, if you look at the memos
18
that we outlined and if you look at the direction
19
we have given to people who may or may not submit
20
maps, we are going to follow the call of the
21
session.
22
Lewis and we are going to do so under the confines
23
of the memo that we sent out that hopefully will
24
remove any aspect of the nature of your comments.
25
I mean, we will put forth what
We are going to follow the order of Judge
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Thank you.
Senator
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2
Simmons, you are recognized.
SENATOR SIMMONS:
And that, Mr. Chair, is one
3
of the reasons that I raise this question is the
4
dilemma that we are confronted with here.
5
order says that we basically need to do that.
6
order also condemns doing it, and that is the
7
reason I believe, as a person who is trying to see
8
if we can comply with the Judge's order, that it is
9
facially unconstitutional because the United States
His
The
10
Supreme Court, as is evidenced in the case of
11
McIntyre vs. Ohio Elections Commission, which is a
12
1995 case, ends up concluding, "Under our
13
Constitution, anonymous pamphleteering is not a
14
pernicious fraudulent practice, but in the
15
honorable tradition of advocacy and of dissent.
16
Anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the
17
majority and, thus, exemplifies the purpose behind
18
the Bill of Rights and the First Amendment in
19
particular to protect unpopular individuals from
20
retaliation and their ideas from suppression at the
21
hand of an intolerant society."
22
The simple fact of it is, is that the conduct
23
of these Republican operatives, it was
24
Constitutional free speech, but we are being told
25
under this order that there is something wrong with
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it when there was nothing wrong with it.
2
not like it.
3
Court even discussed, and I will quote, "But
4
political speech by its nature will sometimes have
5
unpalatable consequences."
6
We may
As a matter of fact, the U.S. Supreme
The fact of it is is that we are sitting here.
7
We are being told by the Judge not to consider or
8
being condemned for having considered some free
9
speech and having it imputed to us and then later
10
on being told that we need to go ahead and inquire
11
as to any maps that are submitted to us other than
12
the maps that are submitted by our own staff, I
13
guess, and, fortunately, in compliance with the
14
Judge's order, that's what we are doing.
15
having staff without any contact by anybody out in
16
the public to be able to do this, and that, of
17
course, violates the Florida Constitution which
18
says that people shall have the right to --
19
peaceably to assemble, to instruct their
20
representatives and to petition for redress of
21
grievances which, of course, means that we need to
22
be open and free -- and have free access to the
23
people.
24
Legislature.
25
We are not the judiciary.
We are
We are the
I only point this question out is to ask the
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question, is that I think, Mr. Meros, what we are
2
all doing is we are having staff be free -- just as
3
Chair Corcoran said, that we are going to be free
4
of any kind of influences from anybody in the
5
drafting of these maps, and that is what I heard
6
him say.
7
I know we are complying with the Judge's
8
order.
9
that the Judge's order is facially
10
11
12
13
I am just saying that in my mind I think
unconstitutional.
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Would you like to respond,
Mr. Meros?
MR. MEROS:
I don't know what to say other
14
than it was a true or false question.
15
but I certainly have not assessed the
16
constitutionality of the Order.
17
18
19
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Well said,
Justice Cantero, do you
have a response?
JUSTICE CANTERO:
I would like to further
20
respond to Senator Simmons' question regarding the
21
committee's consideration of the Plaintiffs'
22
proposal in court.
23
First, there is no such map that has been
24
presented to this committee for approval.
25
don't think that the committee needs to address
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that at all at the moment.
2
proposal is submitted, then you may consider what
3
the background of that map was and maybe question
4
the proposer about the origin of that map.
5
If and when such a
However, the House and Senate counsel felt an
6
obligation to bring to your attention that the
7
Plaintiffs have submitted this proposed remedy to
8
the Court after the judgment and had asked the
9
Court to adopt that remedy without even considering
10
11
what the Legislature would do.
I should point out that on July 29th, the
12
NAACP, which is also a party and intervened as a
13
defendant, meaning in defense of the districts that
14
the Legislature drew, filed in opposition to the
15
Plaintiffs' proposed remedy and specifically to any
16
configuration of the majority or of District 5 that
17
would go east/west from Jacksonville to Gadsden
18
County.
19
submission, but I think that if you are interested
20
in why the NAACP objects, I think that is good
21
reading for you.
And I can provide you with copies of that
22
And I would just summarize that the NAACP,
23
which presented evidence at trial, pointed out that
24
black voters in the region that extends from
25
Jacksonville to Orlando are struggling with the
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lack of affordable housing, segregated housing and
2
segregated schools, glaring disparities in the
3
criminal justice system, lack of city services and
4
urban renewal encroaching on affordable housing,
5
and significantly they face the persistent
6
inability to consistently elect black candidates in
7
local elections.
8
Then it goes on to say that Plaintiffs have
9
proffered no evidence that such a district is
10
necessary in an entirely different part of the
11
state.
12
that map to you, but that -- because it was
13
presented to the Court, but really there is nothing
14
for you to consider at the moment regarding that
15
configuration.
So we felt that we are obliged to present
16
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Representative Fullwood.
17
REPRESENTATIVE FULLWOOD:
Thank you,
18
Mr. Chair.
I have a question for either the Senate
19
or House counsel.
20
are with this sort of balancing act between this
21
issue of diminishment versus Amendments V and VI of
22
our Florida Constitution and trying to figure out
23
what trumps what, my question is essentially, if we
24
draw new districts that are more compact, the Judge
25
says, while these are more compact, however, they
As I struggle and maybe others
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may be in violation of the diminishment clause of
2
the Voting Rights Act.
3
this Judge and find ourselves in the middle of a
4
Federal lawsuit is what I sort of got from what you
5
are saying, if you could clarify that.
6
MR. MEROS:
Sure.
So we could be okay with
And that is a great
7
question because there is a need to clarify.
8
Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act, with not the
9
Section 2, which is the vote dilution standard,
10
applies only in six counties in Florida, or it
11
applied in only six counties in Florida.
12
The U.S. Supreme Court found the formula for
13
determining who is subject to Section 5
14
requirements or not -- found that to be
15
unconstitutional, and so now at present Section 5
16
of the Federal Voting Rights Act does not apply
17
anywhere in Florida; however, what the voters did
18
in Amendment VI was to create a Section 5
19
diminishment standard statewide in all 67 counties.
20
Now, with regard to the question of how does
21
compactness interact with that, you have to look at
22
it and make an assessment at whether one could
23
slightly reduce the minority population in an area
24
without making it less likely that the
25
African-American candidate can win, and if one can
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do that and make a district more compact or more
2
compliant with city and county splits, then one
3
should consider that and the Court can say that you
4
need to do that.
5
For instance, the House made a determination,
6
in its iterations of CD 5, to have a district of
7
approximately 48.5 percent, the benchmark CV 5 was
8
at 49.9 percent, and we reduced that to 48.5 while
9
improving the compactness and the other metrics,
10
but keeping it high enough to where we did not
11
believe there was a credible argument that it made
12
it less likely to elect a candidate of choice.
13
there is interplay at times between Tier One and
14
Tier Two.
15
So
Mr. Chairman, if I may, I just want to correct
16
the record, because I am advised that I stated, I
17
think to Senator Smith, that there was a member of
18
the redistricting suite that was providing draft
19
maps to political operatives.
20
That is incorrect.
It was a member of -- it is a staffperson in
21
the Speaker's Office that did that.
22
absolutely clear and the Judge found that the
23
redistricting suites were completely walled off and
24
did things the right way.
25
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Okay.
It is
Representative
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Fullwood for follow up?
2
Okay.
Leader Thurston, you are recognized.
3
LEADER THURSTON:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
4
Now I certainly want to thank you gentlemen for the
5
presentation and certainly I have a different
6
opinion of the Judge's order than Senator Simmons,
7
but I note the writings of the Judge here.
8
talked about -- on page 1 when he talked about
9
associations and parties, he says they will become
10
quote "engines by which ambitious and unprincipled
11
men will enable -- will be enabled to subvert the
12
power of the people."
13
He
And I think that what is his concern was in
14
his ruling, but I want you to tell me what your
15
understanding is of his ruling about the erased
16
e-mails.
17
18
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Justice Cantero, you are
recognized.
19
JUSTICE CANTERO:
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
20
will answer that question.
21
very much on the erased e-mails.
22
There is only one paragraph on the erased e-mails,
23
and I am not sure if it was on this paragraph,
24
itself, or another where the Judge said that
25
legislators had erased their e-mails and, while
The Judge did not focus
It is on page 23.
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1
there was nothing wrong with that, they didn't
2
violate any rules, they didn't violate any laws, he
3
just wondered why they would do that.
4
And he said it made him a little suspicious,
5
but he did not say that there was anything legally
6
or morally wrong with regularly, in the ordinary
7
course of business, erasing e-mails.
8
asked -- in an abundance of caution and to make
9
sure there is no even appearance of impropriety and
10
that the Legislature cannot be criticized, we have
11
asked that you not erase e-mails from now on, but
12
the evidence at trial was simply that legislators
13
erased e-mails in the ordinary course of business
14
in 2012 just as anybody would erase e-mails.
Some
15
e-mails were retained for archival purposes.
Most
16
were not, but there was no actual finding that what
17
was done in 2012 was nefarious, illegal or wrong;
18
however, we want to avoid in the future even being
19
criticized for doing so.
We have
20
LEADER THURSTON:
Follow up, Mr. Chair?
21
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
You are recognized.
22
LEADER THURSTON:
When you said "we have
23
asked," is there some rule that is in place now
24
that wasn't in place in 2010 that would prevent
25
that from happening?
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2
3
JUSTICE CANTERO:
I believe that there was a
letter or e-mail from the Chairs.
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Yes, that was a Chair's
4
recommendation.
There has not been a modification
5
to the Senate rules and to my knowledge not to the
6
House rules.
7
LEADER THURSTON:
8
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
9
LEADER THURSTON:
Follow up, Mr. Chair?
Yes, you are recognized.
You made -- and I am not
10
sure which one, but someone said that you had ruled
11
out the possibility of the east/west district
12
because of the minority population and how it would
13
be affected, and you referenced the NAACP letter.
14
Several members from the Orlando community
15
have some questions about that.
16
that the drop in the minority population would not
17
allow you to consider an east/west district?
18
JUSTICE CANTERO:
Are you saying
Under the configuration of
19
the east/west district, the NAACP has shown that
20
in, in the 2010 election, which is a midterm
21
election without Barrack Obama on the ballot,
22
similar to what will be seen in 2014, white voters
23
constituted 52.68 percent of the electorate while
24
black voters only constituted 42 percent of the
25
electorate.
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And, therefore, the NAACP was not confident,
2
in fact, very skeptical that a district that ran
3
east/west could elect a black candidate.
4
LEADER THURSTON:
5
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
6
LEADER THURSTON:
One last follow up.
You are recognized.
The correction was made that
7
the operative who was releasing the map was from
8
the Speaker's Office and not from the redistricting
9
office.
10
Was it ever determined in terms of the map
11
that was submitted and the college student's name
12
who actually submitted that map?
13
JUSTICE CANTERO:
It was -- there was some
14
circumstantial evidence about who submitted it, but
15
there was no direct evidence.
16
evidence at trial that the Alex Pasolva map was
17
very similar to maps that had been drawn by some
18
political consultants, but there was never any
19
direct evidence of who actually submitted those
20
maps other than Alex Pasolva.
21
22
23
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
It was -- there was
Leader Smith for a quick
follow up.
LEADER SMITH:
The numbers you just quoted for
24
the east/west, were those primary or general
25
numbers?
It was 52 white and 40 something black.
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2
Was it primary or general numbers?
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
It doesn't specify.
It is
3
on page 5 of the NAACP's opposition to Plaintiffs'
4
proposed remedy.
5
6
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative McGhee, you
are recognized.
7
REPRESENTATIVE MCGHEE:
8
Sir, on page 22 of the Final Judgment, the
9
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Court basically honed in on a -- more of a, in the
10
Court's word, and the question that the Court
11
placed before was about is whether or not the
12
leadership or the Legislature in general was either
13
duped by these operatives or joined in the plans,
14
and thus far we have been able to make a
15
determination that three individuals, Alex Kelly,
16
John Garcey and Jason Pasada acted in a way that
17
was very -- that shouldn't come in because of their
18
hard work and their way of making sure that nothing
19
came within this body that would have caused it to
20
be questioned, and so my hats off to them for the
21
great work.
22
that those three were not part of this conspiracy,
23
the word that the Court used, then that leaves us
24
with the last parameter to deal with, is whether or
25
not they are were duped, the remaining parties were
But if the Court has already ruled out
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2
duped by these political operatives.
My question to you is:
If these political
3
operatives were in the process of duping or duped
4
some of the individuals who were responsible for
5
the maps, should those political operatives be held
6
responsible in a criminal -- in the criminal field
7
and/or in the civil field?
8
JUSTICE CANTERO:
9
Representative, I am not
sure that I am the right person to expound on the
10
criminal law.
All I know is that there has been no
11
finding of criminal activity on the part of the
12
political consultants, and, while the Judge
13
criticized them for filing maps without putting
14
their names on it, I don't think either the Judge
15
or even the Plaintiffs ever suggested that what
16
they were doing was illegal.
17
REPRESENTATIVE MCGHEE:
18
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
19
REPRESENTATIVE MCGHEE:
Follow up?
Follow up.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
20
If someone can answer this question, who was
21
responsible for paying these political operatives
22
to be a part of this process?
23
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
What was her name, I don't
24
think that is a question for legal counsel, and,
25
members, if we are going to have questions on this,
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I think it is important we have our lawyers here,
2
but I think it would also behoove us to use our
3
time wisely.
4
We are here to comply with the joint
5
proclamation, which in essence asked us to redraw
6
two districts, CD 5 and CD 10, and, in doing so, to
7
comply with the State Constitution, the Federal
8
Constitution and the concerns raised by the Circuit
9
Court.
And, in order to do that, I thought it was
10
appropriate, as did Chair Corcoran, that we have
11
legal counsel here to give us guidance so that,
12
when we have that discussion, we are able to move
13
the ball forward and to create districts that will
14
comply and will be acceptable to the Circuit Court.
15
And so while I understand we have counsel here
16
and I will allow questions, I think we need to
17
remember what the task at hand is and perhaps be a
18
little more focused.
19
REPRESENTATIVE MCGHEE:
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
20
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Then -- which brings my
21
question to this in addition to what the Chair was
22
speaking of:
23
comment brought forth or proposal that would
24
prevent such actions that we find inside of this
25
that lays in front of us that specifically talk
What parameters have our counsel's
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about conspiracies, shadows, political operatives
2
having access?
3
before us this day to ensure that something of this
4
nature would never happen again?
5
What parameters are being placed
JUSTICE CANTERO:
I believe the Chairs of the
6
committees have asked the members of the committees
7
and of the separate Houses not to have contact with
8
political consultants regarding this process, not
9
to have contact with Congress members throughout
10
11
this process, et cetera.
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Thank you.
And before I
12
recognize you, Senator Gibson, then I would also
13
add that the Order did not require us to do
14
anything other than -- at this point other than to
15
modify CD 5 and CD 10.
16
Senator Gibson you are recognized.
17
SENATOR GIBSON:
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
And to
18
that point I just want to revisit really quickly
19
the Reock score test.
20
District 5, as drawn today, has a Reock of .09.
21
JUSTICE CANTERO:
22
SENATOR GIBSON:
I believe, Justice, you said
Yes.
So, in terms of the Judge's
23
order and the decisions we have to make in
24
complying with that order, we will be allowed to
25
use Reock scores.
And is there a measurement of
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those appendages, if you will, that would impact
2
the Reock score of either of the districts, well,
3
particularly District 5 in terms of compactness?
4
So how -- I am trying to phrase it so
5
understandable.
6
JUSTICE CANTERO:
I think I know your question
7
and, if I answer and it doesn't answer your
8
question, please let me know.
9
The House's version of CD 5 did not contain
10
that incursion into Seminole County that was in
11
9043, and the Reock score for that map was .11.
12
it was more compact than the enacted CD 5.
13
14
15
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
So
President Lee, you are
recognized.
PRESIDENT LEE:
Thank you.
Justice, I
16
appreciate you and Mr. Meros' presentation today.
17
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
18
like I am at a real disadvantage up here not being
19
a lawyer, and then there are times I feel like it
20
actually helps me.
21
going to be.
22
There are times when I feel
I am not sure which this is
I want to try to bottom-line this because I
23
was not involved in the drafting of the maps in
24
2012.
25
bit in '02 when we had reapportionment, and I
I wasn't here, but I was involved quite a
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appreciate the thoroughness of you going through
2
sort of the machinations of the process and what
3
binds us.
4
But I want to make sure that I understand just
5
kind of a couple of simple principles if I am right
6
or wrong about these things.
7
30,000-foot level there is a body of law,
8
jurisprudence, et cetera, that encourages, in fact,
9
even obligates us to consider discrimination,
Essentially at the
10
voting discrimination that has taken place and to
11
give access to minorities to the ballot and enhance
12
their chances of winning, and that is one of the
13
reasons why we have some of these districts that
14
don't conform to what you might could call the more
15
commonplace geometric shapes that we know as
16
people.
Right?
17
JUSTICE CANTERO:
18
PRESIDENT LEE:
Yes.
And so fortunately or
19
unfortunately due to outside influences, political
20
priorities of both parts and individuals, the --
21
well, divine intervention.
22
there are opportunities for people to engage in the
23
crafting of these districts for the purposes of
24
meeting the tests and the priorities of minority
25
representation to overachieve, to actually excel
So because of that
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too much, to concentrate too many minorities,
2
whether it be in -- say in this case CD 5 and/or CD
3
9 which essentially is a Hispanic access attempt
4
there, and we can actually overachieve in our
5
effort to accomplish those objectives at times and,
6
as a result of that, there can be allegations of
7
partisan intent.
8
districts and exceeded the needs of the mandates
9
which gave rise to partisan opportunities outside
10
In other words, we packed
of those districts.
Is that fair?
11
JUSTICE CANTERO:
12
PRESIDENT LEE:
13
14
Yes.
And so essentially what this
Judge seems to have concluded -JUSTICE CANTERO:
You are being a very good
15
lawyer right now by the way.
16
cross-examination is excellent.
17
getting yes or no answers.
18
PRESIDENT LEE:
Your
You're just
Thank you very much.
So it
19
seems to me that this Judge, if you scrape away all
20
of this and this Judge has concluded in his own
21
mind that in essence we didn't need to go as far as
22
we went to preserve the integrity of the minority
23
access, indeed the minority/majority district that
24
we created in CD 5, we didn't really need to go
25
that far in his mind.
And in doing so we have
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created some other anomalies, the appendages and
2
what-have-you.
3
encouraged -- he has asked this Legislature to come
4
in and fix that over-accomplishment essentially, I
5
mean, that is my terminology, and produce another
6
map for him through this special session process.
7
Is that fair?
And he has encouraged -- not
8
JUSTICE CANTERO:
9
PRESIDENT LEE:
10
11
Yes, that is correct.
Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Senator Bradley, you are
recognized.
12
SENATOR BRADLEY:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman and
13
Justice Cantero, thank you for your presentation
14
today, and Mr. Meros, as well, very, very thorough.
15
And my question concerns Mr. Meros' statement
16
earlier, and Justice, this will be a question for
17
you.
I am just putting it in context.
18
It concerns his statement earlier that we need
19
to be concerned about diminishment or retrogression
20
because the Constitution demands that we be
21
concerned about that.
22
cutting to the chase, what is an appropriate BVAP
23
percentage -- I'm talking about CD 5 in particular.
24
What is an appropriate BVAP percentage in order to
25
remain compliant with Judge Lewis' concerns, and
And so, therefore, just
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also do our best, although there are no guarantees
2
in life, to avoid Federal court challenges?
3
JUSTICE CANTERO:
Well, let me answer it this
4
way.
5
necessarily a specific number as we have found out.
6
It is more of a range and it is what can you get to
7
so that you can make sure that the minorities have
8
the opportunity to elect a candidate of their
9
choice.
10
The BVAP that's necessary to elect is not
And it is really a predictive process, because
11
you are predicting in the future, will this amount
12
of black voting age population be able to elect
13
their candidate?
14
looking at what has happened in the past.
15
Now you can predict the future by
Judge Lewis criticized the Legislature for
16
drawing a district that went to 50.06 black voting
17
age population.
18
9043 version of District 5 had a BVAP of 48
19
percent, and that the House at that level had
20
conducted a functional analysis, which a functional
21
analysis simply means you analyzed political
22
science figures and determine whether at that level
23
of voting population can you actually in a given
24
election elect a candidate of your choice?
25
He did mention that the House, the
And so you look at primary election data,
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general election data, voter turnout data, those
2
kinds of things.
3
world, does black voting age population at a
4
certain level actually translate to electing
5
somebody?
6
analysis at 48 percent and had determined that at
7
48 percent you could elect a candidate of their
8
choice and, therefore, I am not going to say that
9
the Judge blessed that, because he didn't go that
10
far, but he did say that the House was able to do
11
it and conducted a functional analysis at
12
48 percent.
13
good figure to try to get to.
So you can predict in the real
And the House had conducted a functional
So I would think that 48 percent was a
14
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
15
SENATOR BRADLEY:
Senator Bradley.
So if -- just -- again to
16
just cut to the chase.
So if 48 percent were sort
17
of the low bar and then 50.6 as I understand it --
18
JUSTICE CANTERO:
50.06.
19
SENATOR BRADLEY:
-- 50.06 is what the
20
existing map is and the existing map, of course,
21
contained an appendage that you found concerning
22
and, therefore, would like to see it go away, which
23
would reduce that to below, so it would be
24
somewhere between 48 and 50.6 basically.
25
JUSTICE CANTERO:
Basically, yes.
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CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
2
JUSTICE CANTERO:
3
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
4
5
And the east/west was 45?
The east/west was 45.
Representative Berman, you
are recognized.
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
Thank you, Mr.
6
Speaker.
7
understand what the concept of diminishment means,
8
but we heard the term "retrogression" thrown around
9
a little bit, and I want to understand, are
10
I want to make sure that I understand.
I
diminishment and retrogression the same thing?
11
JUSTICE CANTERO:
Basically.
12
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
13
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
14
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
Follow up?
Yes.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
15
Then I also would like to understand a little bit
16
more about where the diminishment concept is found
17
in law.
18
Section 5, but that there is a higher standard
19
imposed under Florida law, and where is the legal
20
basis for that higher standard that is imposed?
21
I think Mr. Meros said it is analogous to
JUSTICE CANTERO:
The legal basis for
22
diminishment is found is Section 5 of the Federal
23
Voting Rights Act.
24
Amendment was taken directly from that language in
25
the Federal Voting Rights Act.
The Florida Constitutional
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What Mr. Meros was talking about was recently
2
the U.S. Supreme Court invalidated Section 4 of the
3
Voting Rights Act and, by virtue of that, Section 5
4
is now up in the air, kind of laying there without
5
a foundation.
6
law, but there is still that State law under the
7
Florida Constitution.
8
9
10
So right now there is no Federal
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
Thank you.
So you are
saying it is under the Fair Districts Act?
JUSTICE CANTERO:
Yes, correct.
All of these
11
are State law, State Constitutional principles.
12
They did not assert any Federal issues in this
13
case.
14
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
15
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
Thank you.
Further questions?
Are
there any questions?
Well, gentlemen, I appreciate your time today.
The information that you provided I am sure we
will be talking.
JUSTICE CANTERO:
Thank you for the
opportunity, Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Okay.
Let's go into public
23
testimony.
We have some cards here.
Let me start
24
with Jessica Lowe-Minor, Executive Director, League
25
of Women Voters of Florida.
Good afternoon and
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2
welcome.
MS. LOWE-MINOR:
Good afternoon, and thank you
3
so much, Mr. Chairman, members of the committee.
4
My name is Jessica Lowe-Minor, and I am here on
5
behalf of the League of Women Voters of Florida.
6
The issue of gerrymandering and fair
7
reapportionment have been a League priority for
8
over 75 years, since the organization first began
9
in Florida.
And our members and supporters across
10
the state remain committed to ensuring that it is
11
the voters who choose their elected officials and
12
not the other way around.
13
In 2010, Floridians made their position on the
14
issue clear when they passed, by an overwhelming
15
margin, a constitutional amendment that established
16
new standards for Congressional redistricting and
17
banned partisan favoritism from the process.
18
critical that the Legislature follows the rule of
19
the people and adheres to both the letter and the
20
spirit of Florida's Constitution.
21
It is
After waiting for so many years, voters are
22
looking forward to seeing the Legislature produce
23
maps that are fair, compact and are not created to
24
favor or disfavor political parties or incumbents.
25
Judge Terry Lewis' order provides a clear pathway
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for this body to use moving forward with specific
2
guidelines as to how the districts must be drawn.
3
At the end of the day our democracy depends on
4
each and every voter having the same ability to
5
elect a representative of their choice.
6
gerrymandering robbs voters of that chance, and we
7
are looking to you to ensure that the map be
8
produced is fair and that the process that you use
9
is transparent.
10
Political
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Thank you.
And next we
11
have Michael Ertel, Supervisor of Elections,
12
Seminole County, representing his office.
13
MR. ERTEL:
14
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
15
MR. ERTEL:
16
Chair.
Good afternoon and welcome.
Thank you very much, Chair,
Senators and Representatives.
17
I am only here to talk about the mechanics of
18
any potential special election that may take place
19
or the timelines or anything like that.
20
that the Judge had ordered that the Secretary of
21
State work with all of the affected Supervisors of
22
Elections to help with the timeline, but since
23
Seminole County has been mentioned today probably
24
more than any other day on the floor, when it
25
relates to maps, it's good that we are here to sort
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of answer any questions as it relates to what may
2
occur timeline-wise.
3
I do know that the lobbyist for the Florida
4
State Association of Supervisors of Elections is
5
here as well.
I am not a member of that
6
organization.
So that's another reason why we are
7
here.
8
9
My hope is that any timelines that take place
help to increase voter trust.
We're Florida.
We
10
need to make sure that everything that we do
11
increases the trust in the process, and that we
12
want the elections, themselves, to be a success, so
13
hopefully the timelines of the elections help it to
14
be a success, give all the voters, every single
15
voter the opportunity to take part in the process
16
if it is a special election or if it is an election
17
that is run on a regular election cycle, like 2016.
18
Logistically what we will do as soon as the
19
new lines are established officially, is it will
20
take us a little while to redraw those lines within
21
every single county of the affected counties.
22
every county is going to be affected, but it will
23
take us a little while to redraw those lines.
24
So basically everything that we did over
25
Not
months and months and months after the
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redistricting of 2010 and going into 2011, or to
2
2011 going into 2012 will be truncated in a very
3
short period of time.
We can do it.
4
the whining business.
We are in the
5
getting-it-done business, but we want to make sure
6
that we can get it done and we have enough time to
7
get it done in a fashion that is a success.
8
don't want to be doing everything so quickly that
9
we can't do it successfully.
10
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
11
MR. ERTEL:
We are not in
We
What is that time frame?
Well, we are all going to get
12
together with the Secretary of State.
13
Supervisors of Elections -- I have seen the maps
14
that were released today and certainly Seminole
15
County is impacted by that.
16
The affected
And as I look at any potential timelines for
17
something taking place before the end of 2014, I
18
think we need to be very cognizant of our military
19
voters and the timelines that they have.
20
in -- eight years in the military myself.
21
overseas as a military voter, and when I got my
22
ballot in the mail as an overseas military voter,
23
it was better than a letter from home.
24
a letter from home.
25
were being invited to take part in the process that
I was
I was
It was not
It was an affirmation that we
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we were overseas to defend.
2
sorry, I am cracking here, because it is very
3
important to all of us.
4
And that's someting --
I don't know how many of you all were ever
5
overseas military, but you feel so patriotic and
6
part of our republic and the democracy that helps
7
that republic take place.
8
that, as elections officials, and leaders of the
9
state, everything we do not only says thank you to
10
our military voters, but says we invite you to take
11
part.
12
13
14
15
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
So we want to make sure
Leader Smith, did you have
a comment?
LEADER SMITH:
Yes, a quick question.
How
many precincts are in Seminole County?
16
MR. ERTEL:
We have 80 precincts.
17
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
18
REPRESENTATIVE McBURNEY:
Representative McBurney.
Thank you, Mr.
19
Chairman.
20
state of Florida for conducting a special election,
21
either your particular county or statewide or both?
22
Have you done any cost estimates to the
MR. ERTEL:
For our county, we have done them,
23
and we have sort of done them based upon
24
back-of-napkin judgments.
25
election, which we are always prepared for, it will
If it is a countywide
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cost our county -- with 80 precincts 262,000
2
voters, it will cost us about $550,000.
3
That includes everything for just the conduct
4
of the election, itself:
Getting voters new cards,
5
redoing and redrawing all the precinct lines,
6
setting everything in place to make it happen and
7
make it a success.
8
place.
9
it takes time and it takes funding.
We can't wish an election takes
We have to make an election take place, and
10
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Yes, follow up.
11
REPRESENTATIVE McBURNEY:
Thank you,
12
Mr. Chairman.
13
understanding was the Supervisors met recently.
14
Was there any discussion of statewide cost
15
estimates for conducting a special election?
16
I know that the -- or my
MR. ERTEL:
I was not part of that meeting.
17
That is an Association meeting.
18
the Association.
19
am here individually.
20
21
22
I am not part of
So that is one of the reasons I
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Senator Montford, you are
recognized.
SENATOR MONTFORD:
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and,
23
first of all, Supervisor, thank you for your
24
service to this country.
25
into perspective the real important job that we
Thank you for putting
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have been challenged with doing here.
2
you.
3
MR. ERTEL:
4
SENATOR MONTFORD:
So thank
Thank you, sir.
That is one of the best
5
things we have heard.
You mentioned you would meet
6
with the Secretary of State and those that are
7
affected.
8
figured out who that might be already?
9
going to meet?
Do you already -- know, have you all
Are you all
Have you all made that decision
10
with the Secretary?
11
MR. ERTEL:
The Secretary of State has been --
12
through the court, the court finding has been
13
charged with meeting with the impacted Supervisors
14
of Elections and getting together.
15
very active in ensuring that we are all well
16
informed with what is going on along the way as
17
each step of the process takes place.
18
So he has been
But that I think it is probably best to wait
19
for that meeting to take place until he knows what
20
the actual lines are going to be and what the
21
impacted counties are.
22
SENATOR MONTFORD:
Mr. Chair.
23
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Yes.
24
SENATOR MONTFORD:
That was my concern, if you
25
have already made that decision maybe ahead of the
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2
3
4
game, but you answered that.
Without putting you really on the spot, can we
get it done by December of this year?
MR. ERTEL:
Legally there would have to be a
5
variety of laws changed in the state and in the
6
Federal government in order to try to do something
7
that potentially could open up some polling
8
locations.
9
in December?
10
Realistically, December -- what goes on
Hanukkah starts on the 16th of
December.
11
What goes on in November?
12
people start going away on vacation.
13
County we have 56 percent of our 80 polling
14
locations are in houses of worship.
15
time believing they are all going to be available
16
in the month of December.
17
Thanksgiving,
In Seminole
I have a hard
I have a hard time believing that our poll
18
workers that we bring on board are going to be as
19
available in the month of December.
20
bring on poll workers, we don't bring on a poll
21
worker and hand them a card and say, have at it.
22
We train them.
23
then we also have election day as well.
24
25
And when we
So they go through a training and
There is early voting periods as well.
We
need to be very aware of providing for a reasonable
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voting early period for any election.
Floridians
2
are used to early voting.
3
year increased the number of hours -- I'm sorry --
4
the number of days of early voting, the number of
5
early voting location options, fully understanding
6
that voters are very used to using early voting and
7
want early voting to continue.
The Legislature last
8
Florida is actually at the forefront of
9
ensuring that Florida voting is long, it's easy to
10
access and it is available for as many voters, at
11
least at the past legislative session.
12
moved a lot of steps forward on that.
We have
13
SENATOR MONTFORD:
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
14
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Senator Gibson, you are
15
16
recognized.
SENATOR GIBSON:
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My
17
first question has to do with what would happen to
18
the military ballot that we have already sent out
19
and absentee ballots.
20
involved with those ballots?
21
them in the trash and recall the ones that are --
22
what's the mechanics of that?
23
MR. ERTEL:
What are the mechanics
Do you have to throw
Senator, what we do after every
24
single election, every element of the election that
25
is vital to the election, itself, we keep for 22
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months.
So we keep for nearly two years in our
2
office, sealed, if possible, in the original
3
container that they came in, the voted ballots that
4
have already come back.
5
In this election I believe that the wise
6
Supervisors of Elections are going and making sure
7
and it is wise Supervisors of Elections that are
8
impacted by this, are making sure that we are
9
separating and we are keeping anything related to
10
this election easy to obtain and easy to get to,
11
because it's going to be contested in court and
12
every local elections office will be called upon.
13
It's going to be by the court after this
14
election no matter what takes place, I believe.
15
is going to be like the Oprah episode where she
16
says, you get a car, you get a car, you get a car,
17
you know, it's kind of like, you are getting
18
subpoenaed, you are getting subpoenaed, you are
19
getting subpoenaed.
20
court after this election no matter what the lines
21
are drawn.
22
23
It
We are all going to end up in
So we are holding onto everything and we are
making sure that it is available.
24
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
25
SENATOR GIBSON:
Follow up, yes, please.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
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1
those that are returning, you have to put them in a
2
box and then you would have to re-mail out new
3
ballots for a special election.
4
question.
5
That is one
And then just to wrap up so I don't have to
6
come back.
Secondly, what is your experience with
7
turnout in a special election and you still have to
8
go through all the steps of early voting, and et
9
cetera?
10
special?
What is the percentage in early and a
11
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
12
MR. ERTEL:
You are recognized.
Thank you.
I think that we should
13
wait until the court comes down with what they're
14
going to say on timelines to determine what happens
15
with those ballots.
Would we be sending those
16
voters new ballots?
It really waits on the
17
timeline of the election.
18
silos of timelines that we could go up.
19
want to have to explain what we would have to do if
20
the election were to take place on September 1st,
21
what we would do if it would take place on
22
September 2nd.
So there is so many
I don't
23
We would definitely comply with whatever the
24
Court orders, but I believe the Court would order
25
an election with timelines that would not violate
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1
2
Florida or Federal law.
And the follow up question on special
3
elections.
4
County for a Congressional district just last year.
5
The turnout in that election I believe was around
6
39 percent.
7
that took place in 2010 was around 49 percent, our
8
statewide general election.
9
general election in 2012 was around 72 percent.
10
We had a special election in Pinellas
The turnout statewide for the election
And our statewide
So a special election will have a lower
11
turnout but the percentage lower is not as great as
12
it would be between a gubernatorial election and a
13
presidential election.
14
question, Senator?
15
SENATOR GIBSON:
16
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
17
18
Does that answer your
Yes.
Senator Simmons, you are
recognized.
SENATOR SIMMONS:
Yes.
Mr. Ertel, given the
19
fact that as I understand it since these are going
20
to be new and different districts, therefore, they
21
would have to be opening up and having the time to
22
qualify by new candidates and giving them an
23
opportunity to, in fact, raise money, give them the
24
opportunity to meet the voters -- in some areas
25
they have spent time in areas that are going to
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1
outside of their new district.
2
of raising money, getting out to the voters, giving
3
the voters the ability to make an intelligent
4
decision as to who to vote for, what do you
5
recommend as a time frame for this Legislature at
6
the earliest?
7
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
8
MR. ERTEL:
The whole process
You are recognized.
Thank you, Chair.
I recommend
9
that we follow with what all of the counties come
10
together with the Secretary of State when we all
11
meet.
12
and all of us agreeing that we should do something
13
that violates any Federal or State law.
14
I can't foresee that meeting coming together
So if you move forward from that, when you
15
consider our election that is taking place right
16
now, we have -- you know, we seal -- and this is
17
truly mechanics, I am sorry, Senator, for getting
18
too much into the weeds here.
19
voting machines and we seal the bags that come back
20
with the ballots.
21
We seal that election, itself, until not only
22
election night, until not only between seven and 10
23
days, depending on the type of election after the
24
election, we seal it for the 10 days past that
25
which is the contest period where a candidate or a
We seal all of our
We seal the election, itself.
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1
member of the public can contest any election that
2
takes place.
3
So for this August 26 election, we are talking
4
about the middle of September before we can even
5
open up and unseal that election that is taking
6
place on August 26.
7
8
9
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Follow up, you are
recognized.
SENATOR SIMMONS:
Irrespective of what -- you
10
know, coming together and what the others would do,
11
what would be your recommendation to us given your
12
own experience in your professional opinion?
13
we taking a viable election before the end of 2014,
14
or is it sometime later?
15
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
16
MR. ERTEL:
Are
You are recognized.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Senator, I
17
think a viable election would be one that includes
18
the aspects of an election.
19
the timelines that are necessary, I don't believe
20
that we can have one of those viable elections that
21
includes the 45 days for a military voters to
22
ensure that they receive their ballots.
23
Federal law, that includes the qualification period
24
for the candidates, that includes the time frame
25
where the petitions for candidates, because some
And so, if you look at
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1
candidates don't want to have to pay to get on the
2
ballot.
3
ballot through community support, and petitions
4
being signed and them being verified by the office
5
and letting that candidate know that they have
6
enough petitions in order to qualify without having
7
to write a check.
8
They want the opportunity to get on the
So to answer your question, I don't believe
9
that the 2014 election, under any current Florida
10
or Federal -- without changing current Florida law
11
changing, current Federal law, is doable.
12
13
14
15
16
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Okay.
Thank you, sir.
I
appreciate your time here this afternoon.
Senators, House members, do we have any
further questions or comments before the committee?
If I am not mistaken you are not on the
17
committee.
I think we are recognizing at this
18
point the actual committee members.
19
Anyone further?
20
PRESIDENT LEE:
Thank you.
President Lee.
Mr. Chair, as we wrap up, are
21
you going to kind of tell us, you and Chair
22
Corcoran tell us kind of where we are at here in
23
terms of process and what is out there and what we
24
are going to be doing tomorrow?
25
the plan here?
Is that kind of
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CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Yes, yes, Mr. President.
2
Of course, my comments will be directed to the
3
Senators and they may have a completely different
4
idea of where they're going.
5
If there are no more comments, I will get to
6
that right now.
Tomorrow we are going to meet at
7
10:15 in the morning, a.m., Leader Smith, and we
8
are meeting until 6:00 p.m.
9
Tomorrow we will take up Senate Bill 2-A and
10
any amendments that have been filed to that Bill.
11
The amendment filing deadline for taking up
12
amendments to Senate 2-A is 8:15 tomorrow morning.
13
If you recall I said on the floor this morning that
14
the mapping process is a time-consuming process.
15
So, Senators, if there are amendments that you are
16
bringing forward, please make sure that you don't
17
do it at 8:00 a.m., but substantially before then.
18
We have or I have filed an amendment to Senate
19
Bill 2-A that is available for view and review
20
presently that has -- it is the product of staff in
21
the House and the Senate together with Chairman
22
Corcoran and myself and legal counsel that is a
23
remedial plan that addresses the concerns to CD 5
24
and CD 10, and also makes conforming changes to the
25
districts impacted.
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1
So I would suspect the very first thing we
2
will do tomorrow once we see what amendments are
3
there is take those amendments up, and, in the
4
course of that, obviously, take up the amendment
5
that is available for your view presently.
6
Chairman Corcoran, for the House.
7
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Similarly, we will go in
8
tomorrow at 10:15.
We have a PCB -- the map itself
9
is already online and available to all members.
10
The actual language and analysis will be available
11
tonight.
12
tomorrow morning, and we are scheduled to go to
13
6:00 p.m. also.
14
The amendment filing deadline is 9:50
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Okay.
If there is no other
15
business before the Senate Committee, Senator
16
Gibson moves we rise.
17
rise.
18
19
Senator Rodriguez moves we
(Whereupon, the proceedings were concluded at
5:07 p.m.)
20
21
22
23
24
25
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CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4
5
I, CLARA C. ROTRUCK, do hereby certify that I
6
was authorized to and did report the foregoing
7
proceedings, and that the transcript, pages 02 through
8
105, is a true and correct record of my stenographic
9
notes.
10
11
12
Dated this 8th day of August, 2014, at
Tallahassee, Leon County, Florida.
13
14
____________________________
15
CLARA C. ROTRUCK
16
Court Reporter
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
SENATE REAPPORTIONMENT MEETING
11
AUGUST 8, 2014
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
Reported by:
22
CLARA C. ROTRUCK
23
Court Reporter
24
25
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2
3
P R O C E E D I N G S
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Would the Administrative
Assistant please call the roll.
4
ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT:
5
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
6
ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT:
7
SENATOR SMITH:
8
ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT:
9
SENATOR BRADLEY:
Senator Galvano.
Here.
Senator Smith.
Here.
Senator Bradley.
Here.
10
ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT:
11
SENATOR GIBSON:
12
ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT:
13
SENATOR LEE:
14
ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT:
15
SENATOR MONTFORD:
16
ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT:
17
SENATOR SIMMONS:
18
ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT:
19
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Senator Gibson.
Here.
Senator Lee.
Here.
Senator Montford.
Here.
Senator Simmons.
Here.
A quorum present.
Thank you.
Senators, this
20
morning we are going to take up Senate Bill 2-A,
21
and I see that Leader Smith is here with us this
22
morning.
23
to take the Gavel since 2-A is under my name.
24
There is an amendment to it.
25
And Leader Smith, I am going to ask you
LEADER SMITH:
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
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take up Senate Bill 2-A by Senator Galvano.
2
Senator Galvano, you are recognized to explain the
3
Bill.
4
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Thank you, Mr. Leader.
5
Senate Bill 2-A as I mentioned yesterday on the
6
floor and in previous memos, is essentially a
7
reenactment of the 2012 plan.
8
have a vehicle to use to meet the very tight time
9
frames that were imposed on the Legislature by the
10
Circuit Court and directed to be complied with by
11
the Joint Proclamation.
12
13
14
15
16
17
This was done to
So Leader, there is a substitute amendment
that I would like to take up.
LEADER SMITH:
We will take up the amendment.
Please explain the amendment.
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
And do we have the bar
code?
18
ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT:
19
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
726240.
Thank you.
Senators, the
20
amendment is essentially the remedial plan that has
21
been put together in collaboration with the House
22
of Representatives' redistricting committee, by
23
myself and Chairman Corcoran, together with House
24
staff and our legal counsel.
25
We began drawing maps day before yesterday, on
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Wednesday, and the way we began was to look at the
2
Court Orders.
3
Judge Lewis, followed by the August 1st Order, by
4
Judge Lewis and to see what direction we could take
5
from those Orders and make sure that we were doing
6
all that we could to meet the substance and the
7
spirit of those Orders.
8
9
The July 10th Final Judgment, by
The Judge did not give specific direction.
Essentially the Order required us to go back and
10
address concerns raised with regard to
11
Congressional District No. 5 and Congressional
12
District No. 10.
13
the Order was the idea that the Judge found a lack
14
of compactness.
15
5 was not comfortable with the serpentine nature of
16
that district.
17
But what we did begin with with
Also, the Judge with regard to CD
Additionally, the Court took issue with the
18
appendage in CD 10 that was drawn at the time as a
19
means to create a Hispanic opportunity district in
20
CD 9.
21
some discussions as to whether we take a mentalist
22
approach.
23
and look at the borders where we could move them
24
and increase compactness.
25
And so in deciding the path to go there were
In other words, address the appendages
The other idea that we looked at was how to
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perhaps adopt some of 9043.
2
that was last produced before the final enacted
3
map.
4
was reference within the Court's judgment regarding
5
that 9043 map.
6
harbor, but the Judge did make reference that he
7
felt as though that map had better characteristics.
8
9
That was the House map
And the reason for that discussion was there
We did not interpret it as a safe
The other concern that I had specifically was
I wanted to make sure that we were not impacting
10
any other districts that were not -- it wasn't
11
necessary to impact, given that we had 27 districts
12
and really the direction from the Court was to go
13
back and adjust only two.
14
the Joint Proclamation, recognizes that you cannot
15
do that exercise without making conforming changes
16
to the districts that are impacted by virtue of
17
changing the two districts in question.
18
But the Court, as does
So what we did with the help of very talented
19
staff, was to begin with we removed Sanford from CD
20
5.
21
non-compactness and shape of CD 5, we worked hard
22
to make it, number one, visually more compact, and
23
that is a very valid criteria referenced both by
24
this Court and the Florida Supreme Court, and then
25
to make sure that the mathematical scores could
Based on the Court's ruling discussing the
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increase.
2
And when I talk about mathematical scores, I
3
am talking about the Reock test that Justice
4
Cantero mentioned yesterday, as well as the convex
5
hull test that was mentioned yesterday.
6
We also were very concerned that we did not
7
diminish the black voting age population in CD 5
8
and we set sort of a floor at 48 percent.
9
floor was set given that where CD or where 9043
10
11
was.
That
So that is where we began.
Through the iterations we were able to come up
12
with what Chair Corcoran and myself, as well as
13
counsel and staff, feel really meets the spirit of
14
the Orders from the Court, the Final Judgment, as
15
well as exceeds, in my opinion, expectations that I
16
had going in in terms of comparison, and also
17
impacts the least number of other Congressional
18
districts in making the changes.
19
So you all have before you a blow up of CD 5
20
and CD 10, and it is an overlay blow up.
21
look at the red line boundaries within the black
22
lines and outside of the black line, the red line
23
represent the 9047 map, which was the enacted map.
24
And I would venture to say that just at first
25
If the
impression you can look at it and see that it is
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1
substantially more visually compact and uniform.
2
You can also see right off the bat that the
3
appendages have been removed, thus improving the
4
compactness, and we did so with not impacting more
5
districts than necessary.
6
than necessary, because when we looked at 9043 and
7
putting that plan into place it would have impacted
8
nine districts.
9
And I say more districts
Just by reference, we also looked at the
10
east/west plan that is not at issue in the
11
Legislature at this point, but what is proposed,
12
and that would have impacted nine districts.
13
the net result was that we have in CD 5 a district
14
that is more visually and mathematically compact.
15
Its Reock score is better than 9047.
16
versus the .09.
So
It is .13
17
It has also incidentally has a Reock score
18
better and proposed Romo and the proposed League of
19
Women Voters, .13 versus .12.
20
county and geographical boundaries, like the Saint
21
Johns River for example.
22
the BVAP.
23
50.05, and we are now down at 48.11.
It better utilizes
Although it does reduce
The 9047 was 49.9, yes, it went over 50,
24
However, we did do a functionality analysis on
25
that district and found that as a conclusion the CD
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1
5 minority population, the opportunity to elect a
2
candidate of its choice.
3
proposed plan with regard to CD 10, as I mentioned,
4
we removed the appendage.
5
visually more compact.
6
new district has a Reock score of .42 compared to
7
.39 in 9047, and a convex hull of .83 compared to
8
.73 in the enacted map 9047.
9
mention that the convex hull's score for CD 5 has
10
11
In fulfilling the
That district also is
It improved the score.
The
Also I failed to
improved as well.
Finally with regard to the impacted districts,
12
the way they were impacted also improved frankly
13
the visual mathematical compactness of 6, 7, 9, 11
14
and 17.
15
substitute amendment to 2-A and I guess at this
16
point --
17
So that is a general overview of the
LEADER SMITH:
Let's get in a proper posture.
18
Are there any questions on the amendment?
19
to get the amendment in the proper posture.
20
there any questions, any objections to the
21
amendment?
22
I want
Are
Without objection, the amendment is adopted.
23
Now we are on the Bill as amended.
Are there any
24
questions on the sponsor of the Bill as amended?
25
Senator Gibson.
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2
3
SENATOR GIBSON:
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
And
thank you Chairman for your hard work on this Bill.
The question I have from 50 percent that we
4
passed, 50.06 percent to 48.11 percent, and I note
5
that you mention that is not diminishing to the
6
point that those constituents would still be able
7
to elect the representative of their choice.
8
How many people are represented in the
9
difference between the percentages, if you know?
10
LEADER SMITH:
Senator Galvano.
11
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
12
Yes, we can tell you that number.
13
Chairman, if it is your pleasure.
14
LEADER SMITH:
15
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
16
17
And Mr.
Yes.
I also have Mr. Guthrie
here, as well as legal counsel.
LEADER SMITH:
If there are any questions that
18
are posed, please feel free to have staff answer
19
those questions, also.
20
give those numbers?
21
MR. GUTHRIE:
Mr. Guthrie, do you want to
Well, a Congressional district
22
is 696,000, let's say roughly 700,000 persons.
23
each percent would be about 7,000 people.
24
the black population were to shift by
25
three percent, that would be something on the order
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of, well, let's say two percent, two and-a-half
2
percent, that would be two and-a-half times 7,000
3
or roughly 18,000 or so people.
4
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
5
about voting age population.
6
MR. GUTHRIE:
Yes.
Chair, but we are talking
I think the percentages
7
would be roughly, in terms of percentages, in terms
8
of overall people it would be that number, voting
9
age population would be less than that.
10
LEADER SMITH:
Follow up.
11
SENATOR GIBSON:
Thank you, Mr. Chair, just
12
for clarity.
13
saying the 48 percent reduction from 50.06 to
14
48 percent is actually less than the 2.5 times
15
seven?
16
So the 2.5 times the seven, you are
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
That is correct.
The point
17
I was making, it is voting age population, it is
18
not just of gross population.
19
20
21
LEADER SMITH:
Senator Montford.
Did you have
more, Senator Gibson?
SENATOR GIBSON:
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I
22
think I would just like a better idea of what the
23
number is to help it make sense.
24
So we are not talking about, since we are not
25
talking about 2.5 times seven, but our percentages
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reflect a black voting age population, there has to
2
be some kind of a rough number.
3
MR. GUTHRIE:
A rough number, Senator Gibson,
4
would be something like 12,000 persons.
5
nail that precisely.
6
right in front of me, but it would be something on
7
the order of 12,000 people, I believe.
8
SENATOR GIBSON:
9
LEADER SMITH:
10
I could
I don't have the spreadsheet
Thank you.
Senator Montford.
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Just a footnote on that.
11
So we understand what we are talking about.
12
benchmark, the map was 49.9.
13
plan we went over 50 to 50.05, and that is where
14
the Court said, I don't find the justification for
15
going over 50.
16
The
Then in the enacted
So there was actually three numbers in play
17
here.
So from the benchmark it is down from 49.9
18
to 48.11.
19
LEADER SMITH:
Senator Montford.
20
SENATOR MONTFORD:
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
The
21
question, and if you go to the three numbers, and I
22
think, Senator Galvano, you may have answered, I am
23
not sure.
24
25
But I believe yesterday in testimony, it might
have been from the Justice, that certainly Judge
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Lewis didn't say 48 percent is okay, but wasn't the
2
testimony that at least that would be a target or
3
acceptable or something?
4
number to shoot for?
5
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Wasn't that a reasonable
Well, the reason we shot
6
for doing better than 48, the Court did not
7
establish a number.
8
said, I don't buy that you increased it over 50 for
9
a necessary purpose.
10
Essentially the Court just
And so when we looked at the Court's opinion,
11
the Final Judgment as a whole and saw the
12
references to the 9043 plan we said, well, let's
13
look at some of the characteristics of the 9043
14
plan.
15
The 9043 had a 48.03 BVAP.
So I felt like, as did Chair Corcoran, if we
16
were going to go forward and create a more compact
17
district and use the 9043 as somewhat of a guide,
18
at least let's not go below where it is in terms of
19
BVAP.
So we actually exceeded it.
20
SENATOR MONTFORD:
21
LEADER SMITH:
22
PRESIDENT LEE:
Thank you.
Senator Lee.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
In
23
terms of questions, you know, I think I understand
24
fairly well what we have done in terms of trying to
25
respond to the Court's substantive objections to
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that of the 2012 map.
And I realized when I
2
entered the room Senator Galvano was commenting a
3
little bit about the process.
4
I don't need for him to be redundant, but
5
given the extensive commentary from the Judge about
6
process and really very little comment about the
7
actual map, itself, could you walk us through,
8
Senator Galvano, sort of the process for which you
9
had developed these maps, this amendment?
10
Who outside of the legislative realm of the
11
Senators and the House members and our staff might
12
have been privy to what you are doing or not been
13
privy to what you were doing, those kinds of things
14
that seem to create some intent defect in the eyes
15
of the Judge?
16
So that in the abundance of caution when we
17
get back over there next week we have the cleanest
18
of hands to the extent that we have done this above
19
board.
20
LEADER SMITH:
Senator Galvano.
21
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Yes, and that is a very
22
valid question and it is something that we culled
23
out of the Final Judgment.
24
to cull it out, it was pretty clear in the Final
25
Judgment and the Order going forward.
I guess we didn't have
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Initially when the committees were appointed
2
and when I was appointed Chair I sent a memo to
3
staff giving them direction, saying that we would
4
like you to collaborate with the House of
5
Representative staff and legal counsel, but we do
6
not want you communicating with anyone beyond the
7
legislative staff and counsel.
8
consultants or those who might benefit or not
9
benefit from the map drawing process.
Specifically not
10
We knew it was necessary to involve both
11
chambers out of the gate, because we were given an
12
order that required a product by noon next Friday.
13
We also understood that we weren't creating a new
14
map, this is a reapportionment committee, but we
15
are not starting from scratch.
16
narrowing what we had to accomplish.
17
We are really very
So from there the House staff and the Senate
18
staff did have some meetings and some
19
collaborations, some conversations.
20
that they communicated with anyone outside of the
21
process other than legal counsel.
22
I am not aware
On Tuesday, myself and Chair Corcoran had a
23
general meeting with staff and counsel to sort of
24
talk about some vague ideas, and then we convened
25
on Wednesday to start the map drawing process.
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that is where we began in earnest by looking at the
2
Court Orders, having a very healthy discussion and
3
debate and Q and A with the lawyers about where we
4
needed to go.
5
Once we got comfortable that we had direction,
6
Chair Corcoran and I directed the respective staffs
7
to start drawing.
8
counsel and with staff.
9
were in the process.
We then reconvened again with
We discussed where they
We addressed any issues that
10
had come up, and then again it went back into a
11
drawing process.
12
was a long day that ended almost at the next day,
13
but that is how the process went.
14
And frankly, President Lee, it
It was efficient, effective and one that I can
15
firmly say did not involve anyone other than the
16
people that I mentioned.
17
PRESIDENT LEE:
18
LEADER SMITH:
Thank you.
Anymore questions on the Bill?
19
We have some public testimony on the Bill.
20
Beverlye C. Neal.
Thank you.
21
MS. NEAL:
22
LEADER SMITH:
23
Good morning.
Yes, Ms. Neal.
Good morning.
If you can take the podium, it
would be better.
24
MS. NEAL:
Good morning.
25
LEADER SMITH:
Good morning.
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MS. NEAL:
My name is Beverlye Colson Neal.
2
Because my time is limited I have brought with me
3
written comments that explain, I am sorry, that
4
expand upon what I will share with you now.
5
I have been a resident of Congressional
6
District 5, formerly Congressional District 3, for
7
most of my life.
8
member of Congressional District 3.
9
C. for 16 years.
As a child growing up I was a
I moved to D.
Coming back to Florida I led
10
again by moving into Orlando in Congressional
11
District 3, now District 5.
12
I have lived in Orlando and Orange County for
13
14 years.
14
importance of keeping Congressional District 5
15
running down Orlando.
16
just want to go on the record with my position.
17
I am here today to testify to the
It may be a moot case, but I
Over the years I have served in various roles
18
with the National NAACP and the Florida State
19
Conference of the NAACP.
20
Empowerment for the NAACP, National Voter Fund, and
21
I was the Executive Director for the Florida State
22
Conference from 2003 to 2009.
23
first Vice-President of the Orange County branch of
24
the NAACP, which is the largest branch in the state
25
of Florida.
I was the Florida Voter
I am currently the
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I remember what it was like when nothing
2
tangible was done for African-American communities
3
by our previous Congressional Representative,
4
Charlie Bennett.
5
voters who are unable to elect candidates to public
6
office, who share, are sensitive to the issues of
7
our community.
8
this is one reason for the African-American
9
community in terms of voting.
10
I know the frustration of black
This happens too many times and
On the other hand the combination of
11
communities that are linked in Congressional
12
District 5 makes it possible for the same people to
13
elect one of their own, and that is someone who
14
understands our community, who more or less has
15
worked with us, and it just gives us the right.
16
We fought for so many years just to have the
17
rights to be represented and too many times we have
18
had taxation without representation, and this is
19
one way that we know that we will be able to
20
continue to have that representation that we so
21
duly deserve and that we fought for.
22
I testified as a witness for the NAACP in the
23
trial.
I talked about my experience in elections
24
in the state.
25
being able to elect a candidate of choice in
I also talked about the benefits of
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1
Congressional District 5.
2
Jacksonville, Orlando and other parts of the
3
district has improved.
4
contracts with the government, economic
5
opportunities have improved, and not only that, but
6
the awareness and participation of
7
African-Americans to the federal government has
8
certainly improved and you can tell through the
9
voter participation that we have had in that
10
11
The infrastructure of
Now minorities get
district.
These are benefits we have seen because we
12
believe we have been able to elect a candidate of
13
our choice.
14
different from the original district that was drawn
15
by the U.S. Supreme Court.
16
are the same.
17
interest.
18
and culture.
19
Jacksonville, Gainesville, all over.
20
The district today is not much
Most of the counties
The Fifth District is a community of
The communities share a common history
You find the same conditions in
Concerns about economic housing, education and
21
crime.
We have a Congress person who will listen
22
and the district offices are important in giving
23
access to government.
24
part of Congressional District 5.
25
Congress person to help us out with out community
I want Orange County to be a
We depend on our
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1
issues and we have had quite a few.
2
Some of you may know about some the instances
3
that we have come to this particular Senate asking
4
your positions and what has been strongly, strongly
5
viewed as a stand your ground.
6
has been there with us, understanding the reason we
7
want that law changed and how it has impacted on
8
our community.
9
Our Congress person
I cannot support the Plaintiffs' proposal to
10
create a new district line that runs along the
11
Florida, Georgia border.
12
are not voters in that district.
13
prisons, and those prisons, although the census may
14
show, those people can't vote, so you really don't
15
have the true measure of one person, one vote.
16
this will leave the core of the district
17
unrepresented in Congress.
18
Because one thing, those
You have got many
And
Thousands of African-American voters in north
19
central Florida will no longer have the opportunity
20
to elect a candidate, and it is one thing to have
21
something and take it away, as not to have it.
22
parents were fighters of the NAACP back in the
23
'60s.
24
the NAACP back in the '60s.
25
like not to have access.
My
I came along through the youth council of
So I know what it was
I know what it was like
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1
not to be able to do and go and feel free that you
2
had someone who had your back or someone who was
3
just there for you.
4
When issues come up about voting for my
5
district, I have to call my Congressional person,
6
because the fact of it is I know where they stand
7
because I elected them with good conscious to
8
represent me and I have the confidence that that is
9
what it is.
10
And in order for us to really, really
11
participate, African-Americans are a very, very
12
fragile community of people, and the least little
13
bit of disenfranchisement is going to keep them
14
from the polls.
15
We want to show them that we care about their
16
voices, their voices and their voice is their vote.
17
Thank you.
18
That is not what we want to do.
LEADER SMITH:
Ms. Neal, I want to thank you
19
for coming up, and also as a former youth council
20
and President of the NAACP in the Broward Chapter,
21
I want to thank you for all the hard work you have
22
done around the state, it has benefited us all.
23
24
25
I think we have a question from Senator
Simmons.
SENATOR SIMMONS:
Ms. Colson Neal, that was a
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very eloquent presentation, and thank you very
2
much.
3
amendment as presented by our Chair?
The question I have is, do you support the
4
MS. NEAL:
5
SENATOR SIMMONS:
6
LEADER SMITH:
7
PRESIDENT LEE:
8
One hundred percent.
All right, thank you.
Senator Lee.
Thank you, and that was
exactly the question I was going to ask as well.
9
My other question was going to be, did you
10
support the Senate map, the Congressional map as it
11
was passed in 2012?
12
MS. NEAL:
This may be very selfish.
As long
13
as Orlando was there and represented, I did.
As a
14
matter of fact, I opposed fair districts period,
15
just so you will know.
16
I can go on the record in saying I was not in
17
support of fair districts, and the reason being is
18
because if you are talking about changing the way
19
that the maps are drawn, targeting that one
20
Congressional minority district was just not fair.
21
It was not fair to ask African-Americans to
22
give up their power in terms of being able to elect
23
a candidate to represent them just so that you
24
could have your way, and especially when a lot of
25
these races are not contested.
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1
PRESIDENT LEE:
2
LEADER SMITH:
Thank you.
Thank you, thank you so much.
3
We have Mr. Whitfield Jenkins, also with the NAACP
4
from Marion County.
5
MR. JENKINS:
6
LEADER SMITH:
7
MR. JENKINS:
Thank you, Mr. Jenkins.
Good morning.
Good morning.
And I want to thank you all for
8
the privilege to come before this honorable group
9
to make this presentation today.
10
I have been so involved in trying to make a
11
difference in my home town, that this gives me
12
another opportunity.
13
My name is Whitfield Jenkins.
I have lived in
14
Marion County all my life.
15
Florida Department of Corrections.
16
on the Board of the Ocala Housing Authority, the
17
Boys and Girls Club.
18
Ocala Marion County Hospice.
19
the Florida Commission on Human Relations.
20
I am retired from the
I have served
I now serve on the Board for
I am a past member of
I want to thank your peer and my good friend,
21
Senator Thompson, who I have worked with on the
22
Commission for many years and it is nice to be here
23
and see you today.
24
25
I worked on to train our leadership.
I was
past President of the Marion County branch of the
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1
NAACP.
2
Vice-President of Florida State Conference NAACP.
3
I am currently the Vice Chair of the State
4
Conference Economic Development Committee.
5
I have served as First and Third
We are very active in voter registration and
6
minority political participation in this state.
7
feel that the voting rights of African-American
8
voters should be protected as provided in the
9
Constitutional Amendment passed in 2010.
10
I also testified in the Romo-Detzner trial.
11
understand the Judge's ruling in the case and
12
support the efforts of this body to create a
13
constitutional Congressional redistricting plan.
14
testified in the Romo-Detzner trial about the
15
difficulties of electing African-American
16
candidates in public office in Marion County.
17
I
I
I
No African-American has ever been elected to
18
the County Commission in Marion County under the
19
present at large system that we have.
20
African-Americans have run for this office and only
21
one or two have even made it to a runoff.
22
Twenty or 25
We are not only able to elect candidates in
23
the Ocala City Council because -- we are only able
24
to elect a candidate because of a resident district
25
requirement that the NAACP championed.
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We know the
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1
impact of racially polarized voting in our local
2
elections.
3
in our community.
4
We don't have an early voting poll site
There are racial appeals in our election.
5
Black candidates do not put their photos or
6
pictures on campaign signs in my area.
7
reasons, that historically it was seen as a sure
8
way to not get minority votes if you did that.
9
We have segregated housing patterns.
10
lawsuit was settled in -- it was filed really
11
against the City of Ocala in 1979, and a consent
12
decree agreed to in 1984, against our city because
13
of discrimination in the provision of municipal
14
services and employment.
15
For obvious
A
Our residents suffers from high illiteracy,
16
unemployment and substandard housing and poverty.
17
I was a named plaintiff in a lawsuit that created
18
the boundaries of Congressional District 3
19
formerly.
20
have benefited from being a part of that district.
21
We are now able to elect our representatives to
22
Congress.
23
African-American voters in Marion County
We have common interest.
We have other
24
communities in the district.
All of us share a
25
history that has been partially remedied.
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We still
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1
suffer the effects of the past that did not allow
2
us to be a part of the political process.
3
away the opportunity to elect our own candidates to
4
Congress will have a negative impact on minority
5
voters.
6
Taking
I do not support any proposal to remove Marion
7
County from District 5.
Creating an alternative
8
district that runs from the Florida to Georgia
9
border between Jacksonville and Tallahassee, will
10
leave thousands of African-American voters no
11
longer able to elect a candidate of their choice to
12
Congress.
13
African-American voters that have been unified
14
around the need to register and vote in order to be
15
able to elect a candidate of choice would be
16
negatively impacted.
17
Thank you very much for the opportunity.
18
LEADER SMITH:
19
20
questions probably.
Mr. Jenkins, probably a few
Senator Bradley.
SENATOR BRADLEY:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and
21
thank you for your testimony, Mr. Jenkins.
22
about these legal concepts of retrogression and we
23
tend to talk about it in a very sanitized way with
24
numbers and spreadsheets, but you really give a
25
voice and art to that concept and make us
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We talk
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1
understand why it is so important that we recognize
2
it and it is part of our Constitution.
3
I have the same question for you that Senator
4
Simmons had for Ms. Neal.
5
support the map that we are considering right now?
6
MR. JENKINS:
7
SENATOR BRADLEY:
8
LEADER SMITH:
9
10
And that is, do you
Yes, I do fully.
Thank you.
Any further questions?
Thank
you very much.
MR. JENKINS:
Mr. Smith, I did submit down to
11
your staff, a statement from our state office, a
12
Mr. Dale Landry.
13
and is not able to make it over.
14
statement.
15
have a copy.
16
He is in the House session now
So I have his
I won't read it, but each of you should
LEADER SMITH:
We have copies of your
17
statement and Ms. Colson, and I think staff has Mr.
18
Landry's, it will be part of the record.
19
very much, sir.
20
21
22
23
24
25
MR. JENKINS:
Thank you
I heard a lot of good things
about you.
LEADER SMITH:
Thank you.
If you want to say
all those good things you get more time.
That is it for our public testimony right now.
We are back to comments on the Bill.
I want to go
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1
2
3
4
back to a quick question.
Does this Bill include a time table of
elections, or is this just a map?
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
This Bill will include both
5
an effective date and an applicability date.
6
applicability date for the Bill is for any election
7
occurring after the 2014 general election.
8
9
The
And the purpose for that is not to somehow
circumvent the Court's Order.
I think that Judge
10
Lewis has as much as said that can't occur.
11
the event there is an election, a special election
12
thereafter, for whatever reason, whether it is
13
court ordered or a seat becomes vacated, this will
14
be the law of the land and the effective districts
15
and maps that will apply.
16
LEADER SMITH:
17
back to questions.
18
So I will entertain questions and answers.
19
Lee for a question.
20
PRESIDENT LEE:
21
But in
Senator, we are going to revert
We have a little bit of time.
Senator
Well, you had mentioned that
is the end of public testimony?
22
LEADER SMITH:
23
PRESIDENT LEE:
Yes, sir.
So we have no one, but the gal
24
that was here for the League of Women Voters
25
yesterday encouraging us on.
She is not here today
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to comment on the map?
2
LEADER SMITH:
3
We just have two appearance
cards from two persons today.
4
PRESIDENT LEE:
5
LEADER SMITH:
Okay.
Any other questions?
Senator
6
Montford, do you have a question before we go back
7
to debate?
8
9
10
SENATOR MONTFORD:
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
It
is more of a general question, not on this
particular issue if that is okay.
11
LEADER SMITH:
Sure.
12
SENATOR MONTFORD:
I am a little concerned and
13
confused about who I can talk to and about what.
14
think the Senator made a very good point yesterday.
15
I don't want to step outside the boundaries, but at
16
the same time I feel an obligation to gather as
17
much information as I can.
18
I
I have 11 counties and I have got a feeling
19
that I have got 11 Supervisors of Elections for
20
example that may like to give me their input.
21
know it is a simple question, but is that allowed?
22
Where do I -- and I have constituents who may
I
23
not be here today that want their input and I am
24
not trying to cause trouble, it is just that I
25
don't want to get outside of the realm there.
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So I respect Senator Galvano's direction to us
2
and I will follow it to the letter.
3
know what that letter is and just a little bit of
4
clarification.
5
LEADER SMITH:
I just need to
And we have received written
6
documents from the Senate, as well as the Chair
7
giving some direction.
8
speak a little more towards that specifically.
9
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
But I will let the Chair
Thank you, Leader.
Let me
10
start by saying this.
No rules have changed for
11
the Florida Senate, no laws have changed in the
12
statute books that would specifically change your
13
conduct as a member of the Florida Senate.
14
And I don't want the process and how we have
15
gone about it to be misapplied or misinterpreted.
16
Essentially I just felt like it was important that
17
when staff began their work in collaboration with
18
the House and with legal counsel, that in order to
19
be efficient, be effective, meet the timelines and
20
avoid getting into the issues that we did the last
21
go around, that staff be directed not to
22
communicate with others outside of the process.
23
Now, you are a member of the Florida Senate,
24
sir, and you are able to conduct yourself in any
25
way you deem appropriate within the law.
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LEADER SMITH:
Questions then?
We are going
2
to go into debate on the Bill.
3
I will start to my left with Senator Gibson.
4
SENATOR GIBSON:
Do we have debate?
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Again,
5
I want to thank Chair Galvano for his efforts and
6
this committee as well.
7
When I look back at the numbers, and certainly
8
the benchmark, the benchmark numbers and not so
9
much the 50 percent numbers, because we are
10
developing from the benchmark, it doesn't appear to
11
be as egregious in terms of numbers.
12
certainly crunch them again probably over the
13
weekend just to have a good look at even the small
14
diminishing that is taking place, because a
15
benchmark can go up or down.
16
I am going to
I mean, when you use a benchmark you can go up
17
or down in the figures.
18
sure that it continues to be a district that those
19
constituents can have a representative of their
20
choosing collectively.
21
And I just want to make
And I listen to the testimony and when I look
22
at the map it is kind of a sad state of affairs
23
that we find ourselves here trying to battle to
24
make sure that African-Americans can be included in
25
a process for their federal representation with one
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2
individual.
I mean, unless you are down in more south
3
Florida, our entire state, we don't have
4
representation other than one district.
5
lament that because we are in 2014, and I am
6
hopeful that we don't find ourselves back after we
7
have done our duty at the conclusion of session,
8
back here again for something like this.
And I
9
And I hope that around this state we can have
10
acceptance and representation by African-Americans
11
in more than one spot above a certain line in the
12
state.
13
recognize the important roles of all minorities and
14
all minority voices in the state.
15
has nothing to do with this map, but it is
16
certainly relevant to that point.
17
I hope that all of our constituents
Obviously, that
So with that, I just can support the map
18
today.
I will do my homework, so I will do a
19
little more over the weekend before we reconvene
20
next week.
Thank you.
21
LEADER SMITH:
Senator Montford.
22
SENATOR MONTFORD:
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
It
23
is not a question, but rather a comment.
24
like to thank Senator Galvano and the staff for
25
this amendment, because you have taken what was
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I would
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considered to be is a very complicated issue and it
2
seems as though you have done your homework, you
3
have done it well.
4
forward to studying it over the weekend and
5
hopefully maybe support it on Monday.
6
So thank you for that.
I look
I think Senator Gibson made a good point.
I
7
think we really need to focus, too, on the whole
8
state and not just this one particular issue, and
9
look at it in its entirety.
10
hard work, Mr. Chairman.
11
LEADER SMITH:
12
SENATOR SIMMONS:
But thank you for your
Senator Simmons.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I
13
want to start out by saying that I really believe
14
that the makeup of the Florida Legislature, as well
15
as the Congressional delegation would be markedly
16
different, but for the fact of first the Voting
17
Rights Act, and then secondly, the proper
18
interpretation of fair districts.
19
Because I believe many people have, and I
20
listened to Ms. Colson Neal as she eloquently spoke
21
in favor of the Chair's Congressional District 5
22
proposal, which makes such good sense.
23
is a misunderstanding about -- a fundamental
24
misunderstanding about what the fair districts does
25
to.
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But there
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It is a constitutional adoption,
2
re-affirmation of the Voting Rights Act and that
3
means that we are prohibited as a tier one
4
obligation from diminishing the ability of
5
minorities to elect representatives of their
6
choice.
7
districts.
8
9
So that is incorporated into fair
And I believe, I believe for whatever the good
intentions are of the League of Women Voters has
10
thoroughly misapplied fair districts.
11
obligated, they are obligated, the court is
12
obligated to assure that the ability of minorities
13
to elect representatives of their choice is not
14
diminished.
15
We are
Fortunately the Judge in his decision affirmed
16
that.
17
says on page 4, commonly referred to as
18
retrogression, this clause tracks Section 5 of the
19
Voting Rights Act and prohibits backsliding in the
20
ability of minority groups to elected candidates of
21
their choice.
22
As a matter of that, in his affirmation he
What does that mean?
That means that this Judge has adopted what is
23
the proper interpretation of fair districts and we
24
are prohibited here today from backsliding.
25
cannot have retrogression, and so that is the
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We
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1
reason that I believe that the Chair's proposal
2
makes very good sense.
3
It is an excellent proposal that we should all
4
be supporting.
I notice just as several of the
5
Senators have noticed, that there has been no
6
proposal or even public presentation by the very
7
people who have attacked this particular plan.
8
They have made public pronouncements that we should
9
not be supporting the Chair's plan, but at the same
10
time they're not even here today to present to us
11
the reasons that we should not have that.
12
I do see that looking at the Judge's Order as
13
he discussed what we were supposed to do, he said
14
that if somebody is going to present a plan, and if
15
there is any doubt about what he said, I would ask
16
someone, anyone to look at pages 25 and 26 where he
17
says, one of the political consultants lamented
18
that if he had submitted maps in this own name he
19
would probably have come under attack accused of
20
trying to favor his party or its incumbents.
21
Well, of course, his submission might be
22
closely scrutinized in the same way that a proposed
23
map submitted by the Florida Democratic Party might
24
be taken with a grain of salt.
25
should be if one is concerned about improper
That is how it
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1
partisan intent influencing the drawing of the map.
2
And then he goes on and he says that if we are
3
going to be relying upon somebody's map, we, to
4
prevent us from being duped and have their improper
5
intent imputed to us, he says on page 27, and if so
6
relying upon publicly submitted maps may not be the
7
best way to protect against partisan influence.
8
Well, I believe that he is fundamentally
9
wrong, but let's just go with the fact, because I
10
believe we are here, we are not a judiciary, we are
11
a Legislature.
12
are open just like ER rooms.
13
whoever you are we have to listen to you.
We have people coming to us and we
We take them all,
14
You know, when I first got here Brian Pitts,
15
who the Judge might call a gadfly, presents to us
16
literally every day of session and we listen to
17
him, and believe it or not there are some good
18
ideas that come from him.
19
don't care who you are, I don't care what you
20
represent, I don't care what your political
21
affiliation is.
22
lesbian, black, white, Caucasian, Asian, you are
23
entitled to come here and talk to us because you
24
have the constitutional right and you don't even
25
have to do it in your own name.
The fact of it is I
I don't care if you are gay,
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You can get somebody else to talk for you and
2
you don't have to tell us who you are, but we have
3
a listen.
4
were elected to listen and then make a decision.
5
And it doesn't make any difference what somebody
6
has been paid to do a map, but we have been
7
obligated by this Order to inquire into that.
8
Otherwise we are deemed to have taken the intent of
9
that person, that improper intent and somehow
That is what we were elected to do.
10
tainted what we are doing as if we can't make a
11
decision on our own.
12
We
The Judge goes on, says on page 27, if you
13
choose however to accept and perhaps rely upon
14
publicly submitted maps, it seems to me that you
15
should have a way to address the possible, nay
16
probable partisan intent of the drafters of at
17
least some of those maps.
18
was apparently to ignore it.
19
The Legislature's answer
Well, that was the right thing for us to do,
20
because constitutionally we weren't supposed to be,
21
or didn't have to be inquiring into it.
22
certainly could, but the quality of a map depends
23
upon just that, its own innate inherit quality and
24
we can make that decision.
25
We
However, however, we have been told that what
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1
we are supposed to do is if somebody submits a map
2
to us, we better find out the same things that are
3
in this litigation.
4
need to see how much money was spent preparing it,
5
who prepared the map, did they really go and check
6
to see what the voting performances were so that it
7
was really drafted so that it would support either
8
an incumbent or a political party.
9
We are supposed to probably we
We need to see the e-mails that were all
10
surrounding the preparation of such a map.
11
notice that the League of Women Voters isn't here
12
to present a map or even discuss it.
13
the newspaper accounts that say that this was being
14
paid by someones else besides them, but they have a
15
constitutional right, but they should be here.
16
Well, I
I have read
They don't have to do their own map, they can
17
use somebody else's money and they can use somebody
18
else's intent, but the Judge has said whoever comes
19
here has to, in fact, provide all of that
20
information, otherwise we will potentially be
21
duped.
22
will be duped into taking their intent, their bad
23
intent unless we act as if we are a court rather
24
than a Legislature and that we, in fact, delve into
25
every one of the intricacies of who, in fact,
I humorously call it the dupe doctrine, we
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prepared the map, paid for the map and what they
2
did about the map and all the e-mails.
3
Because when you see the court case, all of
4
these e-mails that are going back and forth that
5
are ultimately irrelevant, but the fact of it is
6
that is probably why we don't see here today a
7
member of the League, whom I have the greatest
8
respect for, I really do.
9
I received their Visionary Legislator Award
10
this last spring.
11
here, they're not here, they had the opportunity to
12
be here.
13
told us to do until there is a reversal or a change
14
in that.
15
rule of law.
16
I respect them, they should be
Our job now is to do what the Judge has
That is the way it is, we respect the
I respect Judge Lewis.
We are here, we are doing what we were told to
17
do.
This, members, is an excellent, excellent plan
18
presented by our Chair and I ask you to support it.
19
LEADER SMITH:
20
PRESIDENT LEE:
Senator Lee.
Well, thank you, Mr. Chair.
I
21
just think it is only appropriate that we all
22
acknowledge not just the work of Senator Galvano,
23
but your input, too, as well, sir, as the Vice
24
Chair, ranking member of this committee, and I
25
appreciate the way you participated in the process
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as well.
2
I have thought a lot over night about Senator
3
Simmons' comments yesterday, many of which he has
4
reiterated again today.
5
really, really valid points about the awkwardness
6
of where we find ourselves, the questions that it
7
raises about the legislative process.
8
conduct our business and environment that erodes
9
the free speech rights of people, and I am not sure
I think he makes some
How we can
10
where all of that takes us, but we are where we
11
are.
12
And I think the reason why I am so
13
appreciative of the work of Senator Galvano and
14
Senator Smith and our counterparts in the House, is
15
because I think we have taken a little mature view,
16
role in this process, and rather than be
17
reactionary to a Judge that has been critical of a
18
process in the past or has rejected a map based
19
upon that process, as this lady from the NAACP said
20
earlier, it was already approved by the Florida
21
Supreme Court and validated as constitutional.
22
We could have taken a very different approach.
23
I think the fact that we are here, the fact that we
24
have attempted to draw a map with a process that is
25
responsive to the Judge's concerns, and a map that
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is also structurally responsive to the defects that
2
he in his ruling identified, says a lot about the
3
maturity of this process and its willingness to
4
collaborate with other branches of government under
5
the separation of powers provisions that we have in
6
our Constitution.
7
So I think it is a good day for us to be in
8
this place and I appreciate the work of all the
9
parties in helping us get here.
10
LEADER SMITH:
11
SENATOR BRADLEY:
Thank you.
Senator Bradley.
Just very briefly.
I just
12
want to thank Chairman Galvano, Vice Chairman Smith
13
for the work that both of you have done and the
14
leadership that you have provided.
15
I echo President Lee's sentiments that this is
16
a proud day for the Senate, and I think this
17
committee has done its work as it has been asked
18
and instructed to do by the courts, and I am
19
looking forward to supporting the map before us.
20
LEADER SMITH:
Before I go to Senator Galvano
21
to close out, today I echo the confidence that I
22
have in Senator Galvano and our staff as to what
23
they were able to do.
24
different direction as to those that are not here.
25
Maybe the ones that aren't here is because of
But I take a little
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their lack of confidence, and maybe today will go a
2
long way to gaining their confidence again.
3
you look at the Judge's findings and the e-mails
4
may be antidotal, but look at it, it erodes
5
confidence in this process by those that want to be
6
active in the process.
7
When
So when you look at what has transpired in the
8
past, what the Judge has found that has transpired
9
in the past, that has eroded confidence in this
10
process.
I bring that up to say that I hope today
11
we will begin to gain back some of that confidence
12
as we move forward, and we do have issues and
13
people on the other side or have a different point
14
of view, they have the confidence in this body
15
again, that there were some concerns and you can
16
read them, when the read the Judge's findings there
17
was some concerns.
18
People feel that going there really doesn't
19
make a difference because these other things are
20
happening.
21
far and my understanding of Senator Galvano who I
22
have known for many years, I am confident that he
23
has threaded lightly and has threaded rightly in
24
this process.
25
Well, on this one, I am convinced thus
I do have some concerns with the timing of the
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elections and how this map will affect future
2
elections.
3
about holding elections and asked for a few cases
4
and I was just handed a lot of weekend reading as
5
to how elections will be conducted with this map.
6
So be careful what you ask for, you get a phone
7
book back.
8
9
I asked our learned counsel yesterday
So I do have a few of those concerns.
I do
look forward to dealing with this map and others on
10
the floor, and I understand there is an amendment
11
that has been filed.
12
map today to move forward to the floor, but I
13
support Senator Galvano and our staff, and
14
especially our staff who even in a critical opinion
15
was said to be forthright, and in dealing with Mr.
16
Guthrie, I have dealt with him for many years, he
17
has always been responsible and forthright and
18
trustworthy in my opinion, and even in a critical
19
opinion by a Judge it was also stated that.
So I am going to support the
20
So I am going to support this today, I am in
21
support of Mr. Guthrie and Senator Galvano's work
22
product so far and look forward to the whole Senate
23
looking at it on Monday.
24
close.
25
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
And Senator Galvano to
Thank you, Leader Smith.
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Let me start by answering your question
2
specifically, Senator Gibson.
3
difference would be 9,400 in the diminishment.
4
The number
So let me start by reminding the committee
5
where I started.
We had the Senate President and
6
the Speaker of the House call a special session.
7
And in doing so they put forth a Joint
8
Proclamation, and within that Joint Proclamation
9
they directed the Legislature to address the
10
concerns raised specifically in the Final Judgment
11
of the Circuit Court.
12
Once that became a Joint Proclamation, then in
13
my mind whether I agreed with the opinion or
14
disagreed with the opinion, and I have some
15
opinions, was not what was paramount.
16
had to meet the mandates of that Joint
17
Proclamation, this committee had to meet the
18
mandates of that Joint Proclamation.
19
Instead I
So I can earnestly tell you that the approach
20
taken today by this committee in preparation for
21
this committee putting together the amendment was
22
very simple.
23
decide how we can abide by the Federal
24
Constitution, the State Constitution, Federal law
25
and at the same time address the concerns raised by
Look at CD 5, look at CD 10 and
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Judge Lewis in his Order and that is exactly what
2
we did.
3
And with the talented staff that we have and
4
Mr. Guthrie did a phenomenal job, the great advise
5
from legal counsel through the process, and they
6
were not advising us on legal strategy, but instead
7
in how to interpret, how the Court interpreted the
8
last enacted map.
9
But with that input and working together with
10
Chairman Corcoran, we were able to, in my opinion,
11
get further than I imagined, and what I mean by
12
that is, we were able to take a district, actually
13
two districts, cure some of the irregularities, the
14
appendages, the serpentine type nature, create a
15
greater visual and mathematical compactness, and at
16
the same time maintain the functionality of that CD
17
5 as a minority district.
18
And we did do a functional analysis of CD 5
19
and I ran the numbers and I studied them very
20
closely.
21
at 2010, and we looked at turn out.
22
confident by keeping the voting age, minority
23
voting age population over 48 percent, at 48.11
24
that we have, in essence, provided a district in
25
this revised map that will enable the minority
We looked at the 2012 election, we looked
And I am
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population to elect a candidate of its choice.
2
So the other aspect was impacting other
3
districts, because we are not here to start anew,
4
that is not what the Court wanted.
5
very specific.
6
Judgment you will see an analysis, a district by
7
district analysis.
8
eloquent yesterday and clear when he went through
9
that analysis for us.
10
The Court was
In fact, if you go through the
Justice Cantero was very
So we knew our work was cut out for us, it was
11
limited and it wasn't for us to get more expansive
12
than necessary.
13
districts, including the two in question.
14
good news is, the ones that were impacted, we did
15
it in such a way that their scores increased.
16
We actually made conforming changes that
We only impacted total seven
And the
17
benefited the surrounding areas.
18
whether political consultants or political
19
interests or others who are watching this may be
20
happy or sad about these new districts and how they
21
will impact elections to come, but I do know that
22
based on the criteria of our constitution, our
23
Federal laws and the Court Order, we have answered
24
the call.
25
I don't know
So I appreciate all the comments that were
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1
made here today.
2
have had from you all on a committee basis, as well
3
as an individual basis, and I would also ask that
4
you support this Bill as amended.
5
6
I appreciate the input that I
LEADER SMITH:
Having closed on the Bill,
Secretary, please call the roll.
7
SECRETARY:
Senator Bradley.
8
SENATOR BRADLEY:
9
SECRETARY:
Yes.
Senator Gibson.
10
SENATOR GIBSON:
Yes.
11
SECRETARY:
12
SENATOR LEE:
13
SECRETARY:
14
SENATOR MONTFORD:
15
SECRETARY:
16
SENATOR SIMMONS:
17
SECRETARY:
18
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
19
SECRETARY:
20
LEADER SMITH:
Senator Lee.
Yes.
Senator Montford.
Yes.
Senator Simmons.
Yes.
Senator Galvano.
Yes.
Senator Smith.
Yes.
And by your vote you show
21
the Bill will be reported favorably to the entire
22
body.
23
Galvano.
24
25
I will turn the Chair back over to Senator
CHAIRMAN GALVANO:
Thank you, Leader Smith.
If there is no other business before the committee
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1
unless any member has any other business.
2
Leader Smith moves that this committee rise.
3
If not,
(Whereupon, the proceedings were concluded.)
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4
5
I, CLARA C. ROTRUCK, do hereby certify that I
6
was authorized to and did report the foregoing
7
proceedings, and that the transcript, pages 02 through
8
46, is a true and correct record of my stenographic
9
notes.
10
11
12
Dated this 11th day of August, 2014, at
Tallahassee, Leon County, Florida.
13
14
____________________________
15
CLARA C. ROTRUCK
16
Court Reporter
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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1
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES REAPPORTIONMENT MEETING
11
AUGUST 8, 2014
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
Reported by:
22
CLARA C. ROTRUCK
23
Court Reporter
24
25
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1
P R O C E E D I N G S
Page 1
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2
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Call the roll.
3
READING CLERK:
4
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
5
READING CLERK:
6
REPRESENTATIVE MCBURNEY:
7
READING CLERK:
8
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
9
READING CLERK:
Chair Corcoran?
Here.
Vice Chairman McBurney?
Here.
Representative Berman?
Here.
Representative Caldwell?
10
REPRESENTATIVE CALDWELL:
11
READING CLERK:
12
REPRESENTATIVE CUMMINGS:
13
READING CLERK:
14
REPRESENTATIVE FULLWOOD:
15
READING CLERK:
16
REPRESENTATIVE MCGHEE:
17
READING CLERK:
18
REPRESENTATIVE METZ:
19
READING CLERK:
20
REPRESENTATIVE OLIVA:
21
READING CLERK:
22
REPRESENTATIVE PASSIDOMO:
23
READING CLERK:
24
REPRESENTATIVE RODRIQUEZ:
25
READING CLERK:
Here.
Representative Cummings?
Here.
Representative Fullwood?
Here.
Representative McGhee?
Here.
Representative Metz?
Here.
Representative Oliva.
Here.
Representative Passidomo?
Here.
Representative Rodriquez?
Here.
Democratic Ranking Member
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1
Thurston?
2
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
3
READING CLERK:
4
REPRESENTATIVE YOUNG:
Page 2
Here.
Representative Young?
Exh. J at 00156
Here.
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5
READING CLERK:
We have a quorum.
6
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Thank you.
With regard
7
to, I want to have as much opportunity to ask
8
questions as soon as possible.
9
working with Leader Thurston.
We have been
There if is a member
10
that would like a question to get it to one of the
11
Committee members and we will make sure that we
12
have ample opportunity of all questions asked.
13
Obviously, we are here, we have read the call,
14
we have read the Order and we know the task at
15
hand.
16
I would like to thank my team member and our
17
Leader Thurston and give you an opportunity, Leader
18
Thurston, if you would like to say a few words.
19
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
Thank you, Mr.
20
Chairman.
We certainly appreciate the opportunity
21
to work with you on this committee.
22
forward to the testimony and we look forward to
23
having an opportunity to fully question all of the
24
witnesses regarding the drawing of the proposed
25
map.
We look
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1
2
3
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Thank you, Leader.
With
that -- Representative Rodriquez?
REPRESENTATIVE RODRIQUEZ:
Thank you,
4
Mr. Chair.
You may be -- because I don't want to
5
get ahead of you, thank you, Mr. Chair, for
6
recognizing me.
7
bit of how, you know, how we will be able to go,
Page 3
But if you could describe a little
Exh. J at 00157
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8
will the maps be presented and will we have ample
9
opportunity for questions, or will a lot of the
10
questions that many of us have, are they going to
11
be addressed in the presentation of the maps?
12
For example, how they were -- how they were
13
drawn, who was involved in that process, et cetera,
14
et cetera, some of the things that were in the
15
(inaudible).
16
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
What we will do, it will
17
function identically to a regular committee
18
meeting.
19
What we will do is we will present the map.
20
We will have input on -- from technical analysis
21
and legal analysis in complying with the Order with
22
regard to that map.
23
answer a lot of the questions that the members
24
might have, both legally and technically.
25
I would imagine that would
If there is additional questions that you
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1
would like to ask after that you are more than
2
welcome to.
3
the map, per the memo that I sent out earlier in
4
the week, I will be asking anyone who does have a
5
map to comply with the memo and give the criteria
6
listed in the memo and that will be before the map
7
is even presented.
But with regard to the presentation of
8
Follow up, one follow up?
9
REPRESENTATIVE RODRIQUEZ:
10
Sure, you know, I
guess at this point I also wanted to ask if those
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11
providing information to the Committee would answer
12
any questions will be place the under oath as we
13
have authority to do under the rules?
14
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
No, no, they will not.
15
With that I will yield the Chair to Vice Chair
16
McBurney.
17
REPRESENTATIVE RODRIGUEZ:
Mr. Chair, if it is
18
appropriate a moment I would like to be recognized
19
to make a motion that under the rules anyone
20
providing information or answering questions with
21
respect to the drawing of the maps be sworn in by
22
this Select Committee so that the answers they
23
provide be under oath.
24
25
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Rodriquez
has made a motion to have anybody who testifies
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1
before the Committee be sworn in under oath.
2
vote for the motion would have people being sworn
3
in under oath, a vote against would not.
4
5
A
Ms. Heed, please call the roll on the motion
to swear in members.
6
READING CLERK:
Representative Berman?
7
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
8
READING CLERK:
9
REPRESENTATIVE CALDWELL:
Yes.
Caldwell?
10
READING CLERK:
11
REPRESENTATIVE CUMMINGS:
12
READING CLERK:
13
REPRESENTATIVE FULLWOOD:
Page 5
No.
Cummings?
No.
Fullwood?
Exh. J at 00159
Yes.
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LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
14
READING CLERK:
McBurney?
15
REPRESENTATIVE MCBURNEY:
16
READING CLERK:
17
REPRESENTATIVE MCGHEE:
18
READING CLERK:
19
REPRESENTATIVE METZ:
20
READING CLERK:
21
REPRESENTATIVE OLIVA:
22
READING CLERK:
23
REPRESENTATIVE PASSIDOMO:
24
READING CLERK:
25
REPRESENTATIVE RODRIQUEZ:
No.
McGhee?
Yes.
Metz?
No.
Oliva?
No.
Passidomo?
No.
Rodriquez?
Yes.
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1
READING CLERK:
2
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
3
READING CLERK:
4
REPRESENTATIVE YOUNG:
5
READING CLERK:
6
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
7
READING CLERK:
8
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
9
READING CLERK:
10
Thurston?
Yes.
Young?
Yes.
Chair Corcoran?
No.
It fails.
What?
It fails.
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Thank you, show the motion
11
fails.
12
McBurney so that I can present the PCB.
13
McBurney.
14
With that I will yield the chair to Chair
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Chair
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
15
Mr. Chairman, you are recognized to explain the
16
Bill.
Pursuant to your memo of August 5th, 2014 in
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LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
17
your presentation, I would ask that you respond to
18
the following.
19
The identity of every person involved in
20
drawing, reviewing, directing or approving a
21
proposal, the criteria used by the map drawers, the
22
sources of any data used in the creation of the map
23
other than the data contained in My District
24
Builder.
25
performed to ensure that the ability of the
The nature of any functional analysis
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1
minorities to elect the candidates of their choice
2
is not diminished, and how the proposal satisfies
3
all of the Constitutional and statutory criteria
4
applicable to a Congressional Redistricting plan.
5
Chair Corcoran, you are recognized.
6
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Thank you, Chairman.
The
7
identity of the people involved in drawing the map,
8
and for the House, it was myself, Jason Preda, who
9
is to my left, Jeff Tackett, who is behind us, the
10
General Counsel for the House, and outside counsel
11
for the House.
12
For the Senate it was John Guthrie, Jay
13
Ferring, who works with John, General Counsel of
14
the Senate and outside counsel of the Senate, in
15
addition to Chair Galvano.
16
The criteria we used were basically the law
17
which was Section 24 of the Constitution, Fair
18
District Amendments, the Federal Voting Rights Act.
19
In addition to that we had the Court Order from
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20
Judge Terry Lewis, which guided the criteria for
21
what we did regarding this July 10th judgment.
22
The source was all in My District Builder.
23
All of that data and that web application, web
24
application which was available in 2012, is
25
currently available today was what where we got the
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1
2
data from.
The nature and functional analysis performed
3
to ensure that minorities were able to elect
4
candidates of their choice is not diminished.
5
did the functional analysis in Congressional
6
District 5 which in this remedy to Judge Lewis'
7
judgment is the only district that is protected by
8
Tier 1 standards in the Florida Constitution that
9
requires one.
10
We
The staff at some point here shortly the
11
Chairman will go through a detailed functional
12
analysis of Congressional District 5.
13
As far as satisfying the Constitutional
14
statutory criteria applicable, Congressional
15
District 5 maintains the minority communities' same
16
ability to elect a candidate of their choice.
17
map that we will put before you has a BVAP of
18
48.11, complying with the Tier 1 standard of non
19
diminishment.
20
The
The visual and mathematical compactness scores
21
for all of the affected districts, specifically 5
22
and 10 remained at a similar level with the
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23
benchmark map, and in most cases we saw significant
24
improvement.
25
political boundaries where feasible.
We also followed the geographic and
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1
And that is the answer to the preliminarily
2
questions, Mr. Chairman.
3
what I would like to do is just give a quick,
4
pursuant to the call and pursuant to the Order, the
5
map that we will get you all to see and go over
6
here in the next few minutes.
7
If it is all right now
We addressed the appendages into Seminole
8
County in Congressional District 5 and 10.
9
are no longer in the map before you.
Those
We maintained
10
a BVAP of 48.11, which is higher than the maps.
11
Well, in a favorable light by Judge Lewis which was
12
the original House map before it was changed by the
13
Senate, which was less than that.
14
We also, you will see from the map it is
15
visually compact, more compact than both.
16
the map that he spoke of in a favorable light, in
17
addition to the map that was thrown out, and it
18
also does better on the compactness scores.
19
Again,
And with that I would ask, Mr. Chairman, that
20
Jason be allowed to go up and give the technical
21
analysis to the changes made.
22
23
24
25
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Mr. Preda, you are
recognized.
MR. PREDA:
Mr. Chairman.
Okay, what I am
going to do now is go through a presentation.
Page 9
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I am
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1
going to try to take us step by step, kind of the
2
overall changes in the map first, kind of a general
3
overview similar of what Chair Corcoran did
4
briefly.
5
Then I am going to show you where we will put
6
to the maps stay the same compared to the enacted
7
maps, where there are going to be differences and
8
then we are going to go through each of those
9
differences, district by district to be as detailed
10
as I can to tell you where those changes were made.
11
And then go through some of the compactness scores
12
and the functional analysis that the Chairman
13
mentioned for Congressional District 5.
14
So first, the overall changes, we impacted
15
seven districts on the map, maintaining 20 of the
16
districts that were, as you saw in the enacted map,
17
exactly as they were before.
18
county splits at the same level as the enacted map,
19
at 21.
20
28 from 27.
21
mathematical compactness, and I will show you where
22
we did that and why.
23
We maintained the
We did increase the city splits by one to
We did that to increase visual
In Congressional District 5 we improved the
24
impactness, compactness both visually and
25
mathematically.
We actually exceeded the level of
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1
compactness that was in the 9043 map which was the
2
last map that we here in the House had before we
3
came up with the compromised 9047 map that is the
4
currently enacted map.
5
there we will go into more detail later.
6
with the convex hull, we improved that on both
7
counts.
8
9
The Reock score you can see
The same
Congressional District 5 maintained the
ability to elect with 48.11 BVAP, and I will go
10
through the details as to why that maintains the
11
ability to elect later.
12
District 10 compactness was both improved visually
13
and mathematically.
14
those two districts because those are the only two
15
districts that Judge Lewis invalidated in his
16
Order, but we also managed to improve the visual
17
compactness of the surrounding region in addition
18
to just those two impacted districts.
19
And the Congressional
Those are the, I highlighted
I am going to begin by showing you kind of an
20
overall statewide map of how, where the maps stayed
21
the same.
22
of the 20 districts that remain identical to the
23
enacted map, and the blank space is the area that
24
will change that we will kind of fill in with the
25
changes as we go forward.
So you can see this is a statewide image
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1
2
So you can see a kind of zoomed in version,
Districts 1 through 4, throughout the panhandle and
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3
LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
into northeast Florida, they remain identical to
4
how they were in the enacted map.
5
unaffected.
6
They are
Looking down the Peninsula of Florida, you can
7
see the four to five districts in the Tampa Bay
8
region down into Manatee and Sarasota County,
9
District 16, District 12 and Pasco County, Pinellas
10
and Hillsborough, District 15 in Hillsborough and
11
Polk County and Districts 13 and 14 in Pinellas and
12
Hillsborough County.
13
they were in the enacted map, as Judge Lewis
14
objected to challenges to Districts 13 and 14.
15
They all remain identical as
District 8 and 18 over on the east coast, they
16
also remained identical.
17
Districts 19 through 27 are all identical.
18
of the districts affected in the Palm Beach,
19
Broward, Miami-Dade County, as well as Lee, Collier
20
County, Hendry County and Monroe County, they all
21
remain identical as they are in the enacted.
22
Working further south,
So all
So starting to go through some of the changes
23
now, we will start with the First District, which
24
is Congressional District 5.
25
details of the numbers of that district at a later
I will get into the
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1
point.
2
the district physically changes on the map, and I
3
have them side by side there.
4
5
Right now I am just going to talk about how
So the first change I want to point out is
what we did in Putnam County.
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6
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boundary changed dramatically within Putnam County.
7
The district had previously kept the city of
8
Palatka whole, but then, and I apologize, I have
9
added some animations, they are not in the slides
10
that you see in front of you in the packet, but
11
they will be up on the screen, but you can, the
12
images are the same minus the animations, and I
13
apologize about that.
14
So in Palatka we kept the city whole within
15
Congressional District 5 and then we kind of ran
16
across the county to Alachua County, and the new
17
map you have before you today in the PCB, what we
18
do is we follow, throughout Putnam County we follow
19
the St. Johns River throughout the entire county as
20
the border between District 6 and District 5.
21
That helped us improve both visual and
22
mathematical compactness, and clearly the
23
serpentine nature of the district that the Judge
24
also found objectionable in his ruling was somewhat
25
mitigated by that change.
Definitely visually and
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1
2
certainly mathematically.
The next change that I will point out is the
3
line there in Marion County, and also to improve
4
visual and mathematical compactness, we moved that
5
line slightly down encompassing more area.
6
majority of that area that we added in Marion
7
County is unpopulated area.
8
but we better followed some of the roadways that
Page 13
Exh. J at 00167
The
It is a range there,
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9
10
11
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kind of follow that area and were able to improve
some mathematical compactness that way.
The next change, obviously the appendage is
12
the specific thing that Judge Lewis found
13
objectionable about CD 5 that was used to make the
14
district a little over 50 percent.
15
here that that appendage is in the proposed map
16
does not exist and Seminole County is kept whole.
You can see
17
The next district, District 6, which is the
18
district that borders District 5 directly to the
19
east.
20
Putnam County, as I described before, we follow the
21
St. Johns River and actually the entire western
22
border, entire eastern border of CD 5, the entire
23
western border of CD 6 follows the St. Johns River
24
all of the way from Clay County, all the way down
25
into Seminole County where it follows another
Its borders were changed in two places.
FOR THE RECORD REPORTING TALLAHASSEE FLORIDA
In
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1
waterway.
2
districts is now entirely a geographic boundary
3
that is the St. Johns River that in the area is
4
obviously a very major waterway.
5
to do that.
6
So now the border between those two
So we were able
By making that change we also were able to
7
improve the visual compactness of CD 6, not having
8
of kind of the arm extending out throughout the
9
remainder of Putnam County, and actually in the
10
convex hull score of the district, it becoming more
11
rectangular was improved greatly.
Page 14
Exh. J at 00168
So that was also
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12
13
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a benefit of that change.
Because of the change of population, I think
14
Justice Cantera maybe, as I mentioned yesterday
15
with special districts we have to maintain equal
16
population.
17
have to find two people somewhere else in another
18
district.
19
Putnam County to Congressional District 5,
20
Congressional District 6 was under populated.
21
So if we move two people somewhere we
So when we added that population in
It was about, I want to say about 9,000 people
22
in that area of Putnam County that we added.
In
23
order to find that down in southwest Volusia County
24
there are a number of cities that are all right up
25
against each other.
That area that you see right
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1
there is where we had to split the city of
2
Dewberry, which we had previously kept whole but we
3
had to go find more population to equal out the
4
population.
5
Volusia County is now split.
6
So the city of Dewberry in southwest
The next districts, District 7, as I mentioned
7
before, Seminole County is now whole.
8
the appendage right there no longer exists.
9
is the major change that happened with District 7.
10
Obviously, keeping the city of Sanford whole is an
11
addition to the county of Seminole.
12
You can see
That
The two other changes that we made with
13
District 7, since District 6 had to come down into
14
Dewberry we had to find a little bit more
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15
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population for District 7. You can see that the
16
boundary changed a little bit at those arrows where
17
Dewberry was split and it kind of, the boundaries
18
just shifted a little bit in Orange County to kind
19
of equal out population.
20
there, too.
21
Orange County as well which I will talk about.
22
Also with District 9
A little bit with District 5 down in
The next district, District 9, you can see
23
this is probably the district that separate from
24
District 5 and 10 where we made probably the most
25
dramatic visual change to the district.
FOR THE RECORD REPORTING TALLAHASSEE FLORIDA
We had
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1
previously kept the Osceola County whole.
2
made -- the decision had to be made to improve
3
visual compactness, and I will kind of go through
4
how that really works with District 9 to split
5
Osceola County, mostly because of how Osceola
6
County interacts with District 10.
7
We
You can kind of see in the northwest corner of
8
Osceola County, it kind of extends out into
9
District 10, and if we kept that county whole it
10
would have negatively impacted both the visual and
11
mathematical compactness of District 10.
12
not have been able to bring it back to a level of
13
the 9043 map which was the last map that we passed
14
in the House that the Judge referenced many times
15
in his Order as being at least a more acceptable
16
map than the 9047 map.
17
We would
So you can see we split it, the county twice
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there in that northwest county, corner.
19
southern part of Osceola County, in order to
20
improve the visual compactness of that area, I
21
think in one of the future slides I actually point
22
out why.
23
And in the
But you can kind of see where the major
24
changes for District 9, which also was taken out of
25
Polk County, so now it is entirely an Osceola,
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1
Orange County district, but all of the cities
2
within Osceola County are, remain whole.
3
And going back real quick so that this idea of
4
splitting Osceola County is not something that we
5
came up with a new idea.
6
configuration of District 9 that was in the 9043
7
map that was the last map that the House passed
8
before we came up to the compromise.
That, this is the
9
So you can see that the idea for doing what we
10
did, doing is very similar to that of the 9043 map.
11
You can see the boundary within Orange County is
12
slightly different now than it was in 9043, and
13
that was to maintain District 8 without affecting
14
that district, also.
15
the compactness both visually and mathematically
16
District 9 greatly.
17
But we were able to improve
And in District 10, the other district that
18
the Judge invalidated, you can see that the
19
appendage in Orange County, that was removed.
20
can see we went into Osceola County and by doing
Page 17
Exh. J at 00171
You
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21
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that by not having that Osceola County kind of take
22
a chunk out of District 10, we were able to make a
23
nice smooth line all the way down keeping the city
24
of Kissimmee whole, and greatly improving the
25
visual compactness of Congressional District 10, as
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1
2
well as the mathematical change.
We also had to make a slight change based on
3
some of the other districts moving around.
4
see in Lake County, the district previously
5
District 11 previously went into Lake County in two
6
different places.
7
little chunk that got taken out of District 10
8
there in the northwest corner got a little bit
9
bigger as a result.
10
You can
Now it is just one, but that
And then District 10 had to come down in Polk
11
County and take the population that used to be in
12
District 9 and take that back.
13
flag that I was talking about earlier, that is
14
actually a county boundary.
15
County boundary and that little flag right there in
16
us trying to figure out a way to increase both
17
visual and mathematical compactness of District 10
18
to at least match what we had in 9043, which is
19
something that the Judge found a better
20
configuration for the district, we really struggled
21
with that little flag, what do we do with that.
22
23
And that little
That is the Osceola
We had three districts that we could put it
into District 17, 9 and 10, and as you can see, we
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chose to put it in District 17. If we had kept it
25
in either District 9 or District 10 it would have
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1
affected the compactness of the area which is part
2
of the reason why we decided to break the county
3
line.
4
county, but it follows waterways.
5
that kind of sticks out and goes back down and kind
6
of goes up.
7
But that is actually the boundary of the
There is a lake
So the county boundary is very, that is kind
8
of where keeping county boundaries together and
9
compactness kind of conflict.
10
So we were -- that
was the better decision.
11
In District 11 you can see as I mentioned
12
before we changed the border and against District 5
13
a little bit up in the northeast corner.
14
out its -- so now it only goes in it Lake County in
15
one place, but made that little change bigger.
16
Other than that the district remained mostly,
17
mostly the same, but by making those small changes
18
we actually improved the mathematical compactness
19
of District 11 as well.
20
added benefit to making the other changes in the
21
region.
22
whole counties in that district.
23
We took
So that was kind of an
And you can see there are still three
The last district that we effected is District
24
17, which was mostly made to accommodate visual
25
compactness for District 10 and District 9, but
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22
1
also kind of make the top of the district kind of a
2
nice straight run across between both of those
3
counties, and without really negatively effecting
4
the compactness of District 17 greatly, and
5
although there are -- there is 11 counties now in
6
at least partially or entirely within District 17,
7
by only two of those 11 were impacted by our
8
drawing.
9
change their lines or do anything else, but none of
10
11
The other counties will not have to
that district was effected as well.
So I am going to go back, I just kind of
12
walked through all of the -- you can see where we
13
changed it right there in those two.
14
gone through all of the districts that we changed
15
and the changes that were there, I am going to go
16
back through and talk about some of the numbers of
17
compactness, and then the functional analysis for
18
CD 5 to kind of show how the numbers changed.
19
is how the map changed, how did that effect the
20
numbers.
So now having
That
21
Now really quick, I know Justice Cantero
22
briefly mentioned Reock and convex hull, but those
23
can kind of be abstract terms that we throw around
24
a lot in redistricting, I just wanted to retouch on
25
them briefly.
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1
Reock and convex hull are two scores that the
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LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
2
courts have used widely.
3
it is the area of the district divided by the area
4
of the smallest circle that can encompass that
5
district.
6
that fits around the district and you divide it and
7
it becomes a ratio.
8
9
Reock, what that means,
So it is kind of an imaginary circle
The scores are always between zero and one,
and just like all compactness scores, they all have
10
added benefits and negatives.
11
most compact shape that you have.
12
obviously a really good shape to compare to, but a
13
perfect square in the real world would look very
14
compact, but it would only score a .63 with Reock.
15
The circle is the
So that is
So you have to keep in mind that in the real
16
world, it is -- you can't really achieve one.
17
is kind of like a batting average, you are never
18
really going to get 1,000, you are never going to
19
bat 1,000, you are going to bat somewhere in two,
20
300, something like that.
21
It
So the scores with Reock, even one-tenth of a
22
percent can be a very significant improvement in
23
certain districts.
24
a ratio.
25
So keep that in mind, it being
The convex hull is similar.
As the Justice
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24
1
mentioned yesterday, it is like putting a rubber
2
band around the district and you take the area of
3
the district and you divide it by that polygon
4
shape that that imaginary rubber band fits around
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LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
5
6
the district.
There is advantages to that.
Obviously that
7
will show higher scores, because the white space
8
not in the district is smaller, and it can kind of
9
fit around some more real world shapes, like
10
11
rectangles and squares better to get higher scores.
The negative is that if you had a district
12
that was 100 miles long and one inch tall would be
13
a rectangle, would score perfectly in convex hull,
14
but obviously that would -- I don't think anyone
15
would consider that a compact district.
16
these scores you kind of have to use them to your
17
benefit, but also understand how they have their
18
weaknesses as well.
19
So with
Now, looking at the compactness scores, there
20
were, the reproposed map that you have before you
21
compared to the enacted map, which is 9047 and 9043
22
which was the last version that we had here in the
23
House before the compromise that the Judge
24
referenced in his Order, you can see going through
25
the scores we either maintained a very similar
FOR THE RECORD REPORTING TALLAHASSEE FLORIDA
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1
2
level or improved in basically every area.
Congressional District 5 is now a Reock .13
3
and a convex hull of .42, which is greater than the
4
district that the Judge found in 9043.
5
little bit better than in 9047, which was a .10 and
6
a .35.
7
maintaining a 48 percent black voting age
Page 22
He found a
So we improved both of these while still
Exh. J at 00176
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LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
8
9
population district.
District 6 you can see maintained about the
10
same level.
11
improved a little bit more in convex hull.
12
is kind of the trade off in some of the scores that
13
you have.
14
It went down slightly in Reock but
So that
So that was a good improvement.
CD seven remained about the same.
It remained
15
exactly the same as it was in Reock in the enacted
16
map and went down slightly in convex hull.
17
18
19
CD 9 actually improved on both scores from the
enacted pap.
So that was an added benefit.
Congressional District 10 improved in both
20
scores from the enacted and we were able to match
21
the level in 9043 that the Judge referenced.
22
Congressional District 11 improved in both
23
scores from the enacted map, and CD 17 went back to
24
a more similar level in Reock two, the 9043 map,
25
but actually bet the convex hull score for both
FOR THE RECORD REPORTING TALLAHASSEE FLORIDA
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26
1
maps.
2
So you can see mathematically in addition to
3
all of the visual images that we went through, we
4
maintained the similar level or improved most of
5
the scores across the board.
6
Now, going to city splits, which is something
7
that we used a lot prior and it is something that
8
we still tried to achieve as much as we could, we
9
maintained the amount of county splits that was in
10
the enacted map, but we had to increase one more
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LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
11
city.
12
mentioned the other city that we had to split was
13
Ocoee in Orange County to increase the visual
14
compactness of the extension of Congressional
15
District 5 down into Orange County.
16
split that city, but we were able to keep all of
17
the cities in Osceola County whole despite having
18
split the county.
19
without having to split anymore cities.
20
I mentioned Dewberry.
I should have
We had to
So that was an added benefit
As I mentioned before, the impacted counties
21
are eight and the compacted districts are seven.
22
And now if you go to the functional analysis of
23
proposed District 5.
24
chart.
25
points available to us, but these are the data
You will see before you a
In My District Builder we have more data
FOR THE RECORD REPORTING TALLAHASSEE FLORIDA
850.222.5491
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1
points that Justice Pariente went through in her
2
apportionment one ruling when referring to
3
Congressional District 6.
4
chart.
5
little bit better, but we went through those same
6
data points that she used in that analysis, and I
7
put that up there.
8
9
So I used them in this
Also it helps to display just on the side a
So you can see the black voting age population
compared to the benchmark, which is again the 2002
10
district lines, with the new updated 2010 census
11
information, was at 49.87 or rounded off, 49.9
12
percent black voting age population.
13
The district that we drew in map 9057 is
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LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
14
48.11, and it is a slight decrease, but we were, if
15
you, and -- but that still means, we concluded that
16
that maintains the same voting strength and we
17
conclude that, because as we go through the
18
analysis you can see clearly looking at the
19
election results, which is the next four columns
20
down, you see the 2012 Presidential Democratic
21
candidate, which was President Obama, obviously the
22
same with 2008.
23
Democrats and the 2006, Governor's raise Democratic
24
candidate Davis.
25
The 2010, Governor's race for the
You can see the Democrats clearly have control
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1
of that district.
They have won all of the last
2
four major statewide elections there, and comparing
3
that to the benchmark all of the percentages are
4
slightly less, but they are within about a percent
5
or two, which in that same district that I
6
mentioned before that Justice Pariente, I am sorry,
7
no, no, District 88 that the Justice ruled on in
8
that same apportionment ruling, we decreased the
9
black voting age population by about two percent,
10
and that -- she found that acceptable in that
11
particular district.
12
range.
13
We maintained that similar
When you are doing a functional analysis it
14
isn't a formula you can plug in and it spits out an
15
exact black voting age population that you are
16
supposed to get at. It is an analysis of whether
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17
or not the ability to elect remains the same or
18
lessens.
19
statistically you could make the argument, and I
20
believe in this case you do make the argument that
21
it maintains the ability to elect.
A couple of percent either way
22
If you start to go below that level though,
23
because of the non diminishment standard that we
24
have in the Constitution that the lawyers talked
25
about yesterday, any slight decrease in the ability
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1
to elect could be considered a diminishment.
2
have to be very careful there.
3
So we
Looking at the next rows of columns down, that
4
is the Democratic registration.
5
that Democrats have control of the district.
6
Democrat registration is about 60 percent on both
7
counts.
8
registered to vote in the district we drew
9
65.28 percent of them are black, and in the
10
11
So you can see
The
The -- of those Democrats who are
benchmark it was 66.41.
Now, of the amount of -- if you look and you
12
kind of do the reverse of that, if you look at the
13
blacks and figure out what parties they are
14
registered in, you can see that both percentages
15
are about 87 percent.
16
cohesiveness among the black voters in that
17
district in the connected communities that we
18
connect to, and the percentage remains about the
19
same.
So that kind of shows a
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20
You can see those percentages are duplicated,
21
a little increased actually when you look at turn
22
out for the 2010 elections, and then when you look
23
at the primary you can see that the blacks have a
24
clear control of the black, of the Democratic
25
primary and the percentages drop about a percent,
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1
but still stay within that range that you can
2
maintain the ability to elect there.
3
be the functional analysis for the proposed
4
District 5.
5
So that would
And then real quick, there is a slide, that is
6
kind of how everything of all fits together that I
7
went through.
8
9
10
That is the presentation.
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Thank you, Mr. Preda.
Chair Corcoran, you are recognized.
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Thank you.
At this time,
11
Chairman, I would like to have legal counsel give
12
an analysis of its compliance with the Order.
13
14
15
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
is you.
Mr. Meros, I assume that
You are recognized, sir.
MR. MEROS:
Thank you, Chair, members.
I can
16
-- I can only say that I am impressed and amazed at
17
the quality of the staff on both the House and the
18
Senate side.
19
What they did was to comply precisely with
20
what the Court ordered, and in doing so also
21
recognized that, that after a lot of work that they
22
could improve the metrics of the affected districts
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23
and did so in a way that is perfectly compliant in
24
my view with the requirements that Judge Lewis put
25
out.
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1
And that improves the map for all Floridians.
2
It is more legally compliant than perhaps any
3
iteration that has come before.
4
remarkable effort by staff and a very good one for
5
the people.
6
7
8
9
10
11
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
So it is just
Chair Corcoran, you are
recognized.
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
I think that is the Bill
before us.
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Thank you, Chair.
there any questions of the Bill sponsor?
12
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
13
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Yes.
Representative Thurston,
14
Ranking Member Thurston, excuse me, you are
15
recognized for a question.
16
Are
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
Thank you,
17
Mr. Chair.
18
the -- any other districts in terms of opportunity
19
to be impacted by the minority vote?
20
21
22
With the proposed map, does it improve
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Chair Corcoran, you are
recognized.
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
In the Order and what we
23
are addressing, Leader Thurston, there is only one
24
district that that would involve and that is
25
Congressional District 5.
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1
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
2
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
3
4
Follow up.
Follow up.
You are
recognized.
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
I believe that it
5
was said that there was this proposal affected
6
seven districts, in seven districts.
7
seven affects districts other than 5, is there any
8
improvement in the ability of any type of minority
9
access or minority effect of any of the other
10
11
12
13
14
15
Of those
districts?
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
None of the other
districts -VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Chair Corcoran, you are
recognized.
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
None of the other, Leader
16
Thurston, none of the other districts affected are
17
Tier 1 protected districts.
18
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
19
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
20
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
Follow up?
You are recognized.
Recognizing that
21
they are in the Tier 1 affected districts, we have
22
had some impact on those other districts, and I am
23
simply asking, will that impact assist in any ways
24
of having any impact on the person who is elected
25
by the minority communities who now would be within
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Exh. J at 00183
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1
2
3
4
those districts?
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Chair Corcoran, you are
recognized.
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
I would say my same answer
5
there, Thurston, and to the extent that that wasn't
6
part of the Order that we had to deal with, it
7
wasn't looked at.
8
9
10
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
Mr. Chair.
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
11
the Bill sponsor?
12
looked the wrong way.
13
Thank you,
Any other questions of
All right, seeing none -- oh, I
Representative Berman, you are recognized for
14
a question.
And I would request if you do have a
15
question for our analyst, if you will designate
16
that first.
17
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
18
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
19
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
Okay.
Thank you.
You are recognized.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
20
I do have questions for the analyst, or actually
21
the Bill sponsor.
22
So was any performance data collected on the
23
districts, the seven districts that are being
24
changed?
25
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Chair Corcoran, you are
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1
2
recognized.
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
The only performance data
Page 30
Exh. J at 00184
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3
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was the functional analysis that was done as
4
required by law on Congressional District 5.
5
others.
6
7
8
9
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
No
Follow up, you are
recognized.
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
And there was some
discussion by staff about the diminishment number
10
having to do with District 5.
11
little bit more explanation about the diminishment
12
number with regard to District 5.
13
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
14
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
15
16
17
18
I would like a
Chair Corcoran.
Can you be more specific,
Representative Berman?
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Representative Berman,
you are recognized.
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
19
Is there a minimum or maximum number that we won't
20
diminish below that number?
21
saying is there a BVAP number that we have to
22
comply with?
23
24
25
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
I guess what I am
Chair Corcoran, you are
recognized.
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
This was answered
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1
extensively yesterday by Attorney Meros to a line
2
of questions by Representative Rodriquez, and maybe
3
it would be best if he went back through that for
4
the entire Committee.
5
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Mr. Meros, you are
Page 31
Exh. J at 00185
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6
recognized.
7
MR. MEROS:
Certainly.
I think the answer is
8
no.
Black VAP by itself is a measurement to
9
consider, but that is not, it cannot be viewed in
10
isolation.
You have to look at the black voting
11
age population, you have to look at turn out in
12
both the primary and general election.
13
You have to look at registration.
You have to
14
look at any number of those things, and assess when
15
there is a diminishment in the ability to elect.
16
And it is important, as I said yesterday, to recall
17
that diminishment is not a binary number.
18
not a dichotomous value where you can say that at
19
this point there is a 50/50 chance of winning,
20
therefore, it is an ability to elect.
21
It is
If, once you have done the analysis with a
22
real geographic area and the real numbers, a
23
minority community is less able to elect its
24
candidate of choice, that is a diminishment.
25
is about -- that is not a clearly determinative
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1
number, pretty much ever.
You have to look at all
2
of the variables and make a judgment.
3
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
4
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
5
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
6
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
7
8
Thank you.
Any other questions?
Ross, do you want --
Representative
Rodriguez, you are recognized for a question.
REPRESENTATIVE RODRIQUEZ:
Page 32
Exh. J at 00186
Thank you,
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9
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Mr. Chair, or Mr. Chair, Vice Chair.
I guess this
10
question is for house counsel, and it just follows
11
up on exactly this discussion.
12
something in the -- and it relates to something you
13
were helping enlighten us on yesterday with respect
14
to how the BVAP operates and how we have to take
15
into account.
16
And it was
And the information you presented, you know,
17
clearly shows that as drawn, you know, the ability
18
of African-American voters to affect the outcome of
19
the election is preserved, but in terms of how the
20
BVAP comes into it, I just want to ask, page 20 of
21
the Judge's opinion that brings us here, states
22
that it was undisputed in the proceeding that there
23
was never a majority/minority in that district, and
24
yet it consistently performed to elect an
25
African-American to Congress.
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1
And it said that according to expert testimony
2
that that would probably be true, or that would be
3
statistically true with a BVAP as low as
4
43 percent, 43.6 percent.
5
that?
6
MR. MEROS:
7
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
8
9
Could you comment on
I think -Mr. Meros, you are
recognized.
MR. MEROS:
I apologize.
I think that is a
10
misreading of what Judge Lewis said there.
11
me explain the history of that.
Page 33
Exh. J at 00187
And let
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12
LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
In the Summary Judgment phase of this trial
13
there was testimony from an expert, Dr. Tom
14
Brunell, who submitted an affidavit about whether
15
there was a diminishment in the plans submitted by
16
the Plaintiffs in the ability to elect.
17
But Dr. Brunell said in his affidavit, and
18
what is not, what was not mentioned by the
19
Plaintiffs, is that his first analysis was to try
20
to assess if you took that district and made it a
21
50/50 district, in other words, it is a toss up
22
whether you can be elected, what might that number
23
look like.
24
25
And he said there that you would have a flip
of the coin ability if it were at 43 point
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1
something percent.
2
now, that is not the standard.
3
whether one makes it, the district makes it less
4
likely to elect, and because it is -- because the
5
district proposes less than 43 percent, I don't
6
even need to get there.
7
He then went on to say that,
The standard is
So and let me be clear, the Florida Supreme
8
Court, the Legislature and the Congress in the 2006
9
reauthorization of the Voting Rights Act, said that
10
it is not a situation where you can take a minority
11
district from 49.9 percent to the benchmark where
12
there is a clear overwhelming chance to win, and
13
take it down to a flip of the coin as to whether
14
you win.
That is fundamentally contrary to what
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Exh. J at 00188
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15
16
LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
Section V was about.
Section V was about don't backslide with
17
regard to the electoral strength of the minority
18
community, and that is a sliding scale dependent
19
upon the sort of careful analysis that we have been
20
talking about.
21
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
22
question, Representative?
23
Do you have a follow up
You are recognized.
REPRESENTATIVE RODRIQUEZ:
Thank you,
24
Mr. Chair.
I have another question related to
25
something you were explaining yesterday, but now
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1
2
that we have a PCB in front of us.
With respect to District 9, when we were
3
talking yesterday about the Judge's opinion on
4
District 10, that probably the reason why that some
5
of the Tier 1 factors didn't apply was because of
6
the Judge's determination, and I will just
7
literally read it.
8
9
10
11
"That with respect to District 9 there is no
evidence to suggest that a Hispanic majority
district could be created in central Florida."
And my question is, would it -- what data is
12
this map relying upon, presuming that that is, that
13
this map we are looking at here assumes that,
14
right, assuming that this map assumes that a
15
Hispanic majority is impossible in central Florida,
16
what data is that based on?
17
Is that based on 2010 census?
Page 35
Exh. J at 00189
Is it on
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18
LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
benchmark 2000 census data? How far back does the
19
data go?
20
21
22
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Mr. Meros, you are
recognized.
MR. MEROS:
If I understand correctly, you
23
were citing in part from the Judge's Order about
24
District 9.
25
explain what data.
And so let me explain that and I will
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1
First of all, historically the population in
2
District 9 largely did not exist 10 years ago.
3
Yes, there was Hispanic population in that
4
geographic area, but it was very substantially less
5
than it is now.
6
population that may or may not have minority
7
protections that didn't exist in the benchmark.
8
9
So all of a sudden you have a
And so what Judge Lewis there was saying is we
said to him, we thought a laudable goal to take a
10
minority, a now a minority population and raise the
11
population as much as reasonably possible from
12
39 percent and what the House recently did to
13
approximately 42 percent, because that would hasten
14
the ability of that district ultimately to elect a
15
Hispanic candidate.
16
It was conceded that as of this moment there
17
is not sufficient population to do so.
18
response, well, that may be a laudable goal, but it
19
is not constitutionally protected under Tier 1, and
20
so under Tier 1 you cannot allow non-compactness to
Page 36
Exh. J at 00190
He said in
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21
LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
trump a laudable goal that isn't required.
22
So what he was referring to there is, you
23
can't get that Hispanic population up to 50 percent
24
which would presumably, conceivably protected under
25
Section II of the Voting Rights Act, and there is
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1
no question that population at this point cannot
2
get to 50 percent.
3
that we don't have any Section II type minority
4
protections.
5
And so he was saying because of
We didn't have any diminishment protections,
6
because the population wasn't there in the
7
benchmark, so there is nothing to compare.
8
you have to go back to the Tier 2 requirements and
9
the Tier 2 requirements require compactness.
So then
The
10
appendage in District 10 has to give way despite
11
the fact it will have an impact on the minority,
12
the Hispanic population in District 9.
13
Now, in the iteration that we have now in this
14
proposal in District 9, the -- despite the fact
15
that Osceola County is split and the district is
16
very compact, the minority population is
17
approximately 39 percent, I believe, and Jason can
18
correct me if I am wrong.
19
39 percent, which is a very small reduction from
20
what the House had originally had been producing.
21
But it is very close to
So there is going to be a Hispanic, a
22
performing district there relatively soon dispite
23
the fact it is not presently protected under Tier
Page 37
Exh. J at 00191
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24
1.
25
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
I am going to recognize
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1
Mr. Preda to answer that, that part of the
2
question.
3
MR. PREDA:
Just real quick.
The voting age
4
population, the Hispanic voting age population for
5
Congressional District 9 is now 38.37 percent.
6
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Further questions?
7
Representative Berman, you are recognized for a
8
question.
9
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
Thank you,
10
Mr. Speaker.
11
presentation there was a list of who was involved
12
in actually drafting the maps.
13
I believe at the beginning of the
My question is, were the maps shared with
14
either the Senate President or the House Speaker
15
before they were probably filed?
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
This question is for
who?
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
I would assume Chair
Corcoran.
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Chair Corcoran, you are
recognized.
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
I mean, I did report back
23
to the Speaker and give him conceptually where we
24
were and what concepts or changes we were making,
25
Representative Berman, but I don't think I ever
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Exh. J at 00192
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43
1
showed him a final map until it was filed.
2
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
3
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
4
Follow up?
And just to clarify, I did
not show him a final map until it was filed.
5
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
6
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
7
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
Was there any --
Follow up question?
Thank you,
8
Mr. Speaker, Mr. Chair.
Were there any other
9
people beside the list that you gave us at the very
10
beginning who saw the maps prior to their being
11
filed?
12
13
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Chair Corcoran.
14
15
You are recognized,
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
No, none that I am aware
of.
16
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
17
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
18
19
Representative McGhee,
you are recognized for a question.
REPRESENTATIVE MCGHEE:
20
Chairman.
21
directed to you.
22
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr.
Representative Corcoran, the question is
Are you aware of whether or not the data used
23
to create this map that sits in front of us was the
24
same data that was used prior to the Order that was
25
issued by Judge Lewis?
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1
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY: Chair Corcoran, you are
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Exh. J at 00193
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LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
2
3
recognized to respond.
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
As I said in my opening
4
remarks, all of the data was the same out of My
5
District Builder that existed in 2012.
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
question?
Is there a follow up
You are recognized.
REPRESENTATIVE MCGHEE:
Vice Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Chair,
Chair Corcoran, the -- is that -- no
question, Mr. Chair, thank you.
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Are there any other
further questions?
13
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
14
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Yes.
Ranking Member Thurston,
15
you are recognized for a question.
16
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
17
I have a question of
the counsel.
18
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Mr. Meros.
19
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
Thank you again,
20
Mr. Meros.
When you were explaining the BVAP
21
requirement you talked about the Order on page 20
22
of Judge Lewis' Order.
23
You are essentially saying there is no minimum
24
in which the BVAP can go to because it is a sliding
25
scale of a number of factors.
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1
2
3
4
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Mr. Meros, you are
recognized.
MR. MEROS:
Standing alone one can't simply
use black VAP as the only measurement.
Page 40
Exh. J at 00194
So whether
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5
it is 99 percent black VAP or 40 percent, one still
6
has to look at other factors to make that
7
assessment.
8
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
9
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
10
11
Follow up.
Ranking Member, you are
recognized.
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
And so in your
12
estimation there is no floor, there is no level of
13
BVAP that we can go to where we say, well, that is
14
not enough.
15
more?
16
17
18
That is insufficient, we need to have
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Mr. Meros, you are
recognized.
MR. MEROS:
Well, standing alone assessment,
19
looking at black voting age population will not
20
determine whether one is less able to elect.
21
there is a point at which one says that you are
22
less likely to elect, but you -- you have to take
23
another plan.
24
25
Now,
So let's say this plan is a 48.11, and you
were to take it to whatever you take it, 47.5
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1
percent.
Then you have to look at that one and
2
when you do that, once you have a black VAP and
3
then you look at turn out, you look at
4
registration, you look at turn out in a primary
5
election.
6
other point, yes, now there is a less of an ability
7
to elect.
And one can say at that point or some
It is less likely.
Page 41
Exh. J at 00195
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LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
8
9
And so once you look at all of that you can
say, I now know that in this district at 47.5
10
percent and considering all of these other factors
11
there is a diminishment.
12
single number.
13
take black VAP to 30 percent.
14
certain obvious things.
15
You just can't take a
That certainly doesn't mean you can
I mean, there is
If it is 99 percent or 30 or 40 percent in
16
this area, clearly, clearly, clearly that is
17
diminishment.
18
diminishment has to be based on a -- on a -- on a
19
new district to assess.
20
21
22
At what point it becomes a
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
Mr. Chair.
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
23
questions?
24
recognized for a question.
25
Thank you,
Any additional
Representative McGhee, you are
REPRESENTATIVE MCGHEE:
Thank you, Mr. Vice
FOR THE RECORD REPORTING TALLAHASSEE FLORIDA
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1
Chair.
2
question, Mr. Chair, if I can simply put it out
3
there and maybe someone can help me.
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
My question, and you can answer this
Did map 9057 exist prior to Judge Lewis' Order
in any fashion or form?
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Chair Corcoran, you are
recognized.
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
No, it did not, and if I
could go back to your question, Representative
McGhee.
Staff informed me that they did prior, all
Page 42
Exh. J at 00196
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11
of the data was the same as 2012, but they did add
12
in the 2012 election data, which was not there in
13
2012.
14
And so Representative Berman, staff has
15
informed me that staff did show the Speaker the
16
final version of the map prior to it being
17
released.
18
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Any further questions?
19
Being no further questions are there amendments on
20
the desk?
21
handed an amendment.
22
Is there an amendment?
I have been
There is an amendment.
This is by Representative Thurston, Ranking
23
Member Thurston, Representative, Ranking Member
24
Thurston, you are recognized to explain, to explain
25
the amendment.
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1
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
Thank you,
2
Mr. Chair.
3
-- first of all, let me say it is a great
4
amendment, and I want to address the Chairman's
5
criteria for the --
6
The amendment that we have presented is
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
And I apologize, I meant
7
to do the same with you as I did with the Chairman,
8
and ask in your presentation if again you would
9
identify every person involved in drawing,
10
reviewing, directing or approving the proposal, the
11
criteria used by the map drawers, the sources of
12
any data used in the creation of the map other than
13
the data contained in My District Builder.
Page 43
Exh. J at 00197
The
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14
nature of any functional analysis performed to
15
ensure that the ability of minorities to elect the
16
candidates of their choice is not diminished.
17
how the proposed, the proposal satisfies all of the
18
Constitutional and statutory criteria applicable to
19
a Congressional Redistricting plan, and with that
20
you are recognized.
21
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
And
Thank you again,
22
Mr. Chair, and I appreciate that, and let me begin
23
by addressing those concerns.
24
25
First would be the identity of those drawings,
reviewing, directing or approving the amendment,
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1
and that would be non other than Senator Dan Soto,
2
who is present here with us today, and his aid who
3
would be Kristen Byron.
4
As to the criteria used by the map drawers,
5
the criteria would be Article III, Section 20 of
6
the Florida Constitution, Fair District Amendment,
7
and Judge Terry Lewis' Final Order.
8
9
The sources of data for the map would be My
District Builder.
The nature and the functional
10
analysis as has been explained would only be
11
directed to District 5, which is only Tier 1
12
district that is affected, and to assure the
13
minority ability to elect a representative.
14
is the criteria.
That
15
However, this map maintains a BVAP of 43.71,
16
which is how we believe that the minority ability
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17
is still protected.
18
political concerns for any technical aspect of the
19
drawing of the map.
20
21
22
23
24
25
That is the geographic and the
We have with us Senator Darren Soto who will
address those concerns.
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
you are recognized.
SENATOR SOTO:
great to be back.
All right, Senator Soto,
Welcome back.
I was going to say that.
Thank you, Chairman.
FOR THE RECORD REPORTING TALLAHASSEE FLORIDA
It is
A couple
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1
of geographic concerns.
It affects only three
2
districts, Districts 5, 10 and 7.
3
three counties which are Lake, Orange and Seminole
4
County.
It affects only
5
It addresses in the Judge's Order the packing
6
issue that the Judge found with District 5, and it
7
also addresses the finger issues as they were
8
described in Judge Lewis' Order with regard to both
9
Sanford and going into Orange County, and the net
10
result is that we have the district that was just
11
explained for District 5, as well as two new
12
competitive districts with regard to District 10
13
since part of the ruling was that this district was
14
drawn to benefit a party and incumbent.
15
And then as a result of addressing District 5,
16
District 7 also became competitive.
17
equally split between Democrats and Republicans
18
which was a top tier analysis under the Fair
19
District Amendments.
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They are both
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20
21
22
23
24
25
And with that I would be glad to answer any
further questions that anybody has.
REPRESENTATIVE MCBURNEY:
We will go back to
Ranking Member Thurston for your presentation.
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
Chairman.
Well, thank you, Mr.
Senator Soto.
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2
3
4
5
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Are you completed with
your -REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
I am completed with
mine.
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Okay.
Before we get to
6
questions of the Bill sponsor, I am going to ask
7
Mr. Preda to give a technical analysis of the
8
amendment.
9
MR. PREDA:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, this will
10
be very brief.
11
the amendment and do kind of a facial technical
12
analysis similar to what we would do to the maps
13
that we would draw ourselves.
14
Staff has gotten a chance to review
This map, as Senator Soto said, changes three
15
districts and three counties.
16
population as he mentioned is 43.71 percent.
17
Having done the same basic functional analysis, I
18
don't have the chart with me, but I looked at the
19
same data points that I looked at for the proposed
20
PCB and in my opinion there would be a clear
21
diminishment in the opportunity to elect in that
22
district, but I will let Mr. Meros elaborate more
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The black voting age
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23
on that.
24
25
The next thing that I would look at would be
visual compactness.
Looking at the three districts
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that are affected, it would be my personal opinion
2
that visual compactness is not improved.
3
appendage in District 10, which was a key point in
4
the Judge's Order is not entirely gone, and there
5
is still kind of a bump that goes out further that
6
kind of mirrors where the appendage was, so there
7
is that.
The
8
The compactness measures in Congressional
9
District 7 decreased from the enacted map to .55 in
10
Reock, .6, which it was .60 in the enacted map.
11
did improve slightly in convex hull, from .77 to
12
.81.
13
in Reock, .39, and improved very slightly in convex
14
hull of .76, but the Reock number of .39 which
15
remains the same as the enacted map was something
16
that Judge Lewis found unacceptable in his ruling.
17
It
Congressional District 10 remained the same
The Reock score for Congressional District 5
18
is .10, which is one one hundredth more than the
19
enacted map, similar to what it was in 9043 and the
20
Reock score is .33, which is four-tenths higher
21
than it was in the enacted map.
22
analysis.
23
24
25
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
And that is my
And I am also going to
recognize Mr. Meros to give the legal analysis.
MR. MEROS:
Thank you, Chair.
Page 47
Exh. J at 00201
I certainly
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agree with Mr. Preda that this is -- this is a
2
clear diminishment of the ability to elect.
3
Leader, this is an example of how one would look at
4
this, not just black VAP, but also some of the
5
other elements.
And
6
And I can tell you if one goes all the way
7
down the elements that one looks like, in every
8
element this is a diminishment.
9
of examples and we have only had, you know, a
10
And just a couple
relatively small amount of time to look at this.
11
But this map as compared to the benchmark
12
decreases Kendrick Meek's margin of victory in that
13
prior election from 16.2 percent to 1.9 percent.
14
It decreases the black share of 2012 general
15
election turn out, from 51.8 percent to 43.4
16
percent.
17
It is in an area where there is acknowledged
18
racially polarized voting and white block voting
19
that tends to defeat the African-American's
20
candidate, either in a primary or in a general.
21
takes 45,000 African-American residents from the
22
enacted CD 5, places them in districts that would
23
not elect an African-American.
24
25
It
It takes a district that has elected an
African-American candidate of choice in 11 straight
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1
elections, going back to the time when no
2
African-American had been elected since
3
reconstruction and takes it to a near certainty
4
that an African-American will be elected and takes
5
that down to a flip of the coin at the very best.
6
That is a -- that is clearly in violation of
7
8
9
the Tier 1 standard of non diminishment.
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Now, members, are there
-- and again, I would ask that you direct the
10
question if it is to the analyst or to the
11
amendment sponsor.
12
13
14
15
So I think Ranking Member Thurston has a
question.
You are recognized.
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
I have a question of
the attorney, Mr. Chair.
16
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
You are recognized.
17
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
Mr. Chair, counsel,
18
when you say that Kendrick Meek's position, now, he
19
was running in a statewide election, correct?
20
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
21
MR. MEROS:
You are recognized.
Yes, sir, but one can evaluate in
22
that district what his percentage, what his
23
electoral results were.
24
statewide, we are talking about that district.
25
We are not talking about
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
Follow up,
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1
2
Mr. Chair?
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Follow up, you are
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3
4
recognized.
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
So in a statewide
5
election those individuals may have been shifted to
6
another district, but you gave a percentage that I
7
didn't understand.
8
9
10
Explain that to me again.
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Mr. Meros, you are
recognized.
MR. MEROS:
If one takes the comparative
11
districts, District 5, and the enacted, the
12
benchmark map, and in this amendment, you -- and
13
you impose on that Kendrick Meek election results
14
in the other map, the benchmark map, his margin of
15
victory was over 16 percent.
16
that same election in the amendment, that goes down
17
to 1.9 percent.
18
19
20
21
22
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
If you now impose
Follow up,
Mr. Chair.
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
You are recognized for a
follow up, Ranking Member.
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
Thank you,
23
Mr. Chair.
When we asked the question about the
24
benchmark map, we asked the individuals who would
25
be moved to those other districts, but the other
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1
districts, the other seven districts that were
2
affected by the benchmark map, would the
3
African-Americans in those districts who would now
4
be in those seven districts, would they have the
5
same consequences?
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6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY: Mr. Meros, you are
recognized.
MR. MEROS:
question.
I am not sure I understand the
Are you talking about the 45,000
residents that I was referencing or -VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Ranking Member Thurston,
you are recognized.
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
Thank you, thank
14
you, Mr. Chair.
15
number, but in order to make the changes to the
16
benchmark map there is certain individuals who
17
would have been in Congressional District 5 who are
18
no longer in Congressional District 5.
19
I am not sure about the actual
Would they have the same consequences now in
20
the district that they have been moved to such that
21
they would not have any impact on the electing of
22
their representatives?
23
24
25
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Mr. Meros, you are
recognized.
MR. MEROS:
I am not sure I understand, but I
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1
can tell you that the -- the change in population
2
that came about from the 2010 census, did not
3
result in any, any movement of thousands of
4
African-Americans from CD 5 to another district.
5
So, in other words, and the seven affected
6
districts that the proposal that staff has done did
7
not do that.
8
African-Americans in this proposal.
There were 38.1 percent
Page 51
Exh. J at 00205
The House had
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9
10
11
LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
had anywhere from 47 and-a-half to close to 49 in
its iterations before, the Senate had more.
So what I am saying is that when you look
12
separately at this proposal and what it does to CD
13
5 as compared to the benchmark or, and that is the
14
proper comparison, or as compared to the enacted
15
map, it vastly decreases the ability of
16
African-Americans to elect a candidate of their
17
choice.
18
African-American residents by the very nature of
19
both the geography and the performance will be
20
disbursed into districts that will elect white
21
Democrats.
22
African-American candidate of choice.
23
And what that also does is there is 45,000
That will clearly not elect an
Now, which is precisely one of the reasons why
24
the voters voted for non diminishment as a Tier 1
25
standard.
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1
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
2
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
3
4
One last.
You are recognized for
one last follow up.
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
Thank you.
5
Representative, when Senator Soto says that it
6
improves the ability and makes competitive two
7
other districts, is that not accurate?
8
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
9
MR. MEROS:
You are recognized.
I don't know the answer to that
10
because we have not assessed that, but I am glad
11
you asked that question, because I need to counsel
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12
LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
the Committee that with due respect to Senator
13
Soto, the notion that a map drawer can consistently
14
with the amendments make districts more competitive
15
is clearly illegal under the Florida Supreme Court
16
decision interpreting the amendments and what the
17
amendments say.
18
If one is drawing districts to make them more
19
competitive, whether more competitive for
20
Republicans or more competitive for Democrats, that
21
is an intent to favor an incumbent or a political
22
party.
23
clear.
24
25
The Florida Supreme Court made that very
There is nothing in the amendments that says,
make districts more competitive.
What the
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1
amendments do is constrain the Legislature to use
2
specific standards with the hope that that will
3
make the districts fairer.
4
competitive or not is entirely dependent upon voter
5
preference.
6
compactness, Tier 1 standards are nothing about
7
making something more competitive.
8
Whether they are
But geographic boundaries,
I would suggest that if I got up here and
9
argued that the 9057 makes the districts more
10
competitive for five Republicans, it would be
11
immediately stricken down by the courts.
12
13
14
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Representative Young,
you are recognized for a question.
REPRESENTATIVE YOUNG:
Page 53
Exh. J at 00207
Thank you, Mr.
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15
16
Chairman.
LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
And this question is for counsel.
In your various presentations you have
17
mentioned that in analyzing the diminishment issue
18
there are many factors that need to be considered,
19
in addition to the BVAP, and in assistance to the
20
Committee in making sure that we can effectively
21
analyze this amendment, I was wondering if you
22
could take a few minutes and go through for all of
23
us the various factors.
24
25
Just list them that need to be considered in
evaluating diminishment so that we can then
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effectively question the Bill sponsor on how he
2
addressed each and every issue and the comparison
3
of the PCB.
4
5
6
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Mr. Meros, you are
recognized.
MR. MEROS:
And I will be happy to provide a
7
piece of paper that was available to the Committee
8
yesterday.
9
the various elements.
10
11
12
13
But let me just go through the various,
The black population, the
black voting age population, Hispanic, I am sorry.
REPRESENTATIVE YOUNG:
I want to write it
down, thank you.
MR. MEROS:
Black population, black voting age
14
population, Hispanic voting age, white population,
15
and white voting age population, and we are going
16
to go to registration data.
17
Voters registered as Republicans, registered
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18
LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
voters who are black, registered voters who are
19
Hispanic, registered Democrats who are black,
20
registered Hispanics who are Democrats, registered
21
Hispanics who are Republicans, registered voters
22
who are black, registered voters who are Hispanic,
23
registered Democrats who are black, registered
24
Hispanics who are Democrats, registered Hispanics
25
who are Republicans.
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1
The next area is turn out data.
That is
2
general election voters who are black, general
3
election voters who are Hispanic, Democratic voters
4
at the general election who are black, Hispanic
5
voters at the general election who are Democrats,
6
Hispanic voters at the general election who are
7
Republicans, general election voters who are black,
8
Democratic voters who are black, Hispanic voters at
9
the general election who are Democrats, Hispanic
10
voters of the general election who are Republicans.
11
Democratic primary voters who are black, Hispanic
12
voters at the primary who are Democrats, Hispanic
13
voters at the primary who are Republicans.
14
Now, that with then be applied to various
15
elections, and those elections would be
16
presidential, gubinatorial, from 2012 to 2008.
17
in addition I can tell you and Mr. Preda can talk
18
more specifically about this, even this list is not
19
inclusive of all characteristics that My District
20
Builder includes, and I may be wrong, Mr. Preda,
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And
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21
LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
but I believe that to be the case, so it is -- it
22
is a detailed analysis.
23
24
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Follow up, you are
recognized.
25
REPRESENTATIVE YOUNG:
Thank you, Mr.
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1
Chairman.
2
expectation that any map that is brought before
3
this Committee would have prepared this detailed
4
analysis of every one of these factors to be able
5
to ensure that we could consider diminishment in an
6
effective way?
7
8
And counsel, is it an appropriate
Is that a fair statement?
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Mr. Meros, you are
recognized.
9
MR. MEROS:
It -- it certainly would be
10
important to have any -- any real ability to try to
11
determine whether there is diminishment.
12
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Any additional --
13
Representative Fullwood, you are recognized for a
14
question.
15
REPRESENTATIVE FULLWOOD:
Thank you.
Thank
16
you, Mr. Chair.
17
Senator Soto to come up and respond to the
18
counselor's, to the House attorney's statements
19
regarding, I guess regarding the validity of the
20
map, and the process that was used to create the
21
map.
22
23
Mr. Chair, I would like to ask
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Senator Soto, you are
recognized to respond.
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24
25
LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
SENATOR SOTO: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
have great respect for Mr. Meros.
And I
This isn't the
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1
first time we have actually put in an election
2
lawsuit on the other side of each other, right, and
3
it probably won't be the last.
4
The first test of the detailed analysis, I
5
wish I had the resources to be able to do that.
6
was my aid and I who put this together.
7
thankful for staff to start looking at a lot of
8
this, but I just didn't have the resources to put
9
it altogether when this map was created over the
10
last three days, and so for that I do apologize.
11
wish I had more information for you.
12
It
So I am
I
But there were strict guidelines about who to
13
be able to work with and what resources to use, and
14
so that did limit the kind of nice analysis that
15
was done in the other map.
16
I did want to talk briefly about the word
17
competitiveness.
18
What I was referring to is the top tier analysis to
19
not make districts in favor of any party or any
20
incumbent.
21
District 10 was created to benefit an incumbent and
22
so necessarily I had to address that and make sure
23
it wasn't benefiting a particular incumbent or a
24
party as a result.
25
I use that as a general term.
Under Judge Lewis' Order he found that
And so part the of the map that I fashioned
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1
along with Ms. Byron was to address that specific
2
point that it was drafted to favor a party and an
3
incumbent and change it back to something that was
4
equal that did not favor either party or either
5
incumbent.
6
With regard to diminishment, I looked at what
7
Dr. Brunell had said, who was the House's expert,
8
and he said that, and I thought it was a
9
conservative estimate, but that 43.6 percent would
10
still allow a 50/50, and if you go above that for
11
African-Americans in a district to be able to elect
12
the representative of their choice.
13
The reason why I think it is a conservative
14
estimate is when you look at the primary, you are
15
going to have to have staff look at the exact
16
percentage, but African-Americans represented well
17
into the 60s as far as a percentage of the primary
18
and then the general election is 50 something
19
percent Democrat to 20 something percent
20
Republican.
21
So the chances of under the map as drawn by
22
the first map or the second map of someone coming
23
out of that primary not winning are slim to nil,
24
but I also wanted to deal with the concept of
25
diminishment in general.
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District 9 under the standards that are being
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2
critiqued of District 5 in the Thurston map would
3
also find that District 9 has been diminished in
4
the first map, because there has been a reduction
5
numerically in Hispanics in District 9 from the
6
original map that was ruled upon by Judge Lewis and
7
the map proposed here today.
8
So if we were just to take a strict numerical
9
interpretation of diminishment, both maps would be
10
in violation, but I believe and I believe also
11
staff had talked about that a numerical
12
diminishment could, but is not an actual
13
diminishment.
14
You have to look at many factors and that was
15
what -- what House counsel had discussed as well.
16
So I think at best we are looking at two maps where
17
the Judge will have to decide whether District 9 in
18
the first map or District 5 in the second map was a
19
diminishment.
20
21
22
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Representative Coble,
you are recognized for a question.
REPRESENTATIVE COBLE:
Thank you, Mr.
23
Chairman, I will probably have a series for Senator
24
Soto.
25
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
You want to direct your
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questions to Senator Soto.
2
continue working through the Chair so we remain
3
consistent.
4
REPRESENTATIVE COBLE:
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Let's go ahead and
Thank you, Chairman.
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5
Senator Soto, thank you for this.
6
of just fundamental questions.
7
moment ago about your view of whether or not your
8
proposal reflects diminishment in the ability.
9
I had a couple
You were talking a
So first I want to, I want to set up, would
10
you submit that you agree or disagree with the way
11
in which House counsel views Section II and how
12
diminishment works in the abstract?
13
SENATOR SOTO:
14
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
15
16
I -Senator Soto, you are
recognized.
SENATOR SOTO:
Sorry, Mr. Chair.
I would
17
agree with what staff counsel or what House staff
18
stated already, which is that a numerical
19
diminishment could be a diminishment, but you have
20
to look at many factors and I believe that was kind
21
of a hybrid of what both staff and what Mr. Meros
22
said.
23
24
25
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Representative Coble,
you are recognized.
REPRESENTATIVE COBLE:
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
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I may want to come back to that.
2
that I already had, if I heard the way you
3
described your response a moment ago then, do you
4
then disagree with the expert testimony that was
5
provided in the case that 43 percent would reflect
6
a 50/50 coin toss?
7
SENATOR SOTO:
I believe -Page 60
Exh. J at 00214
But the follow up
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8
9
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
recognized.
10
SENATOR SOTO:
11
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
12
13
Senator Soto, you are
I apologize.
Remember we have a
Chair.
SENATOR SOTO:
I am so sorry about that.
I
14
did look at Dr. Brunell's opinion.
15
expert, but I tried to use an expert's opinion as
16
far as what would be a 50/50 flip, at least in
17
consideration of it.
18
you have to look at other factors just like what
19
was discussed.
20
I am not an
But I would also argue that
And I find the fact that it is an
21
overwhelmingly African-American primary for an
22
overwhelmingly Democratic district is something
23
that the Court may eventually consider in the
24
ability of an African-American community to elect a
25
candidate of their choice in the ultimate review of
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1
2
3
4
the map.
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Representative Coble,
you are recognized.
REPRESENTATIVE COBLE:
Thank you, Mr. Chair,
5
and thank you, Senator Soto.
6
questioning.
7
A different line of
I am looking at the map that we are currently
8
operating under and then comparing it to the
9
submission we have before us.
10
I know you didn't
have time to prepare a Power Point with fancy
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11
animations like staff had, but if you could, I
12
would expect since you have worked diligently on
13
this, you could kind of walk us through the actual
14
geographic areas in District 5 where there is a
15
substantial change.
16
17
18
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Senator Soto, you are
recognized.
SENATOR SOTO:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I had
19
my -- my assistant help me prepare that.
The only
20
counties affected by the district lines in this map
21
are Orange, Lake and Seminole.
22
Seminole County line is followed along the eastern
23
border of Congressional District 5 to Highway 46
24
where the district heads east until Orange
25
Boulevard just west of I-4.
The northeast
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1
The district continues southwest and this
2
discusses the natural boundaries, neighborhoods and
3
streets, and I could also provide the Committee
4
with a copy of this analysis prepared by my
5
assistant, Christine Byron, after the Committee
6
meeting, but I will go on.
7
The district continues southwest until State
8
Road 434 where the district continues south to
9
Edgewater Drive and then follows Lee Road to
10
Highway 50, which is a major artery in Orlando,
11
also known as Colonial Ave.
12
am sorry, Congressional District 5 then goes east a
13
long Highway 50 to I-4 where it continues south to
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Senate District -- I
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14
L. B. McLeod Road, encompassing the downtown
15
Orlando neighborhood of Paramore.
16
The district then heads north along Kirkman
17
Road to State Road 408, which is a highway, it is
18
our east/west expressway highway, also a major
19
street, well, highway in the area.
20
Encompassing neighborhoods, I am sorry, the
21
district then heads north along State Road 435,
22
Clarcona Ocoee Road, another major State Road in
23
west Orange County encompassing the neighborhood of
24
Pine Hills, until reaching Apopka.
25
Congressional District 5 then heads west along
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441, a State Road through Zellwood and north around
2
Lake Road to Sorrento.
3
west to Mt. Dora along State Road 46 to 19A, and
4
then turns north encompassing Umatilla to the
5
northern Lake County border, and then east along
6
the county border along Highway 42 until reaching
7
439 heading north.
8
Congressional District 5 were unchanged.
9
The district then heads
The northern parts of
And just to go by neighborhood so everybody
10
can visualize it, Congressional District 5 kept the
11
traditional African-American neighborhoods of Pine
12
Hills and Paramore, which were part of the -- are
13
part of the city of Orlando and Orange County.
14
Congressional District 7 now contains both Sanford
15
and Eatonville, Sanford in particular was discussed
16
by Judge Lewis as one of the fingers and it was
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17
also removed on your map as, or sorry, the first
18
map as well.
19
And then Webster's district, excuse me,
20
Congressional District 10 now contains Tangelo
21
Park, Holdens Heights and South Apopka, those being
22
far south and encompassing part of the other finger
23
that was discussed by staff and by Judge Lewis, as
24
well as the fact that they are to the west.
25
they more naturally go into Congressional District
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2
10.
And that is a rough geography of the districts
3
and I will be able to help -- we have a copy here
4
that I can present to staff if the Sergeant and
5
Arms wouldn't mind bringing it over.
6
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Representative Caldwell,
7
you are recognized for a question.
8
REPRESENTATIVE CALDWELL:
9
10
Thank you, thank
you, Mr. Chairman and thank you, Senator Soto.
Could you, I guess you have described yourself
11
and your aid were the primary people working on
12
this.
13
SENATOR SOTO:
The only people working on it.
14
REPRESENTATIVE CALDWELL:
Okay, could you
15
describe to us kind of the thought process in
16
adding these, these communities, Umatilla, Eustis,
17
Mt. Dora, why those and not for example going
18
deeper to the east into Seminole County and into
19
Sanford?
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20
I also see that your map would add Maitland
21
and parts of, well, not as part of Mountain
22
Springs, but those areas, what why was the thought
23
process that you had in those choices?
24
25
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Senator Soto, you are
recognized.
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SENATOR SOTO:
2
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
3
4
I am sorry.
You remember how to do
that.
SENATOR SOTO:
I know, I am sorry.
I applied
5
the second tier factors as far as using natural
6
boundaries that I just described, and then also
7
looking at what districts were contiguous to -- to
8
make sure that it wasn't disruptive.
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Representative Caldwell,
you are recognized.
REPRESENTATIVE CALDWELL:
Chairman.
I am all right now,
I will think for a few minutes.
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Okay, Representative
Oliva, you are recognized for a question.
REPRESENTATIVE OLIVA:
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
16
Senator Soto, I am still and I can fully appreciate
17
your lack of staff on this.
18
complexity of all of this.
19
I can understand the
What I am still trying to understand is if you
20
contend, and it sounds like you do, that both the
21
visual compactness of your proposed map, and also
22
that there is a clear diminishment in ability to
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23
elect, if you refute those can you walk us through,
24
you said there were several factors, can you walk
25
us through why there would not be a clear
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diminishment and ability to elect in your proposed
2
map?
3
4
5
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Senator Soto, you are
recognized.
SENATOR SOTO:
Thank you.
Let's talk about
6
visual compactness.
7
analysis that staff has done, both the -- both the
8
Reock and the other one.
9
I wasn't able to do any of the
So there has been no analysis done because I
10
didn't have those type of resources, but I am sure
11
staff will be able to work on that for you.
12
wasn't able to do any analysis on compactness,
13
admittedly.
14
15
So I
With regard to diminishment, my belief is that
this is not a diminishment because --
16
A VOICE:
Thank you.
17
SENATOR SOTO:
Because first, the House's
18
expert testified that they even believed that it
19
would be a 50/50 chance under 43.6 percent at trial
20
which was included in the opinion.
21
percentage was included in the -- in Judge Lewis'
22
opinion.
23
percentage because there hasn't been any.
No other
So we can't infer that it is any other
24
And I believe that that is a conservative
25
estimate because of the fact that African-Americans
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1
represent a large portion going into the 60s of the
2
Democratic primary, and that the district is
3
overwhelmingly Democratic as drawn in both the
4
original and post map, thus making it -- making it
5
not a diminishment for African-Americans to elect a
6
candidate of their choice, both the primary and
7
ultimately in the general election.
8
9
10
11
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
questions?
Okay.
All right, any other
All right, seeing no further questions.
Just one follow up?
REPRESENTATIVE OLIVA:
Thank you, Mr.
12
Chairman, and I guess this would be, this question
13
would be for Mr. Meros.
14
seeking clarity here.
15
opinion on whether there is a diminishment on the
16
proposed map or not, and Senator Soto seems to
17
believe there isn't and staff and legal believes
18
there is.
Because again, I am
It seems like we have an
Can you give some clarity on that?
19
MR. MEROS:
20
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
21
22
Certainly.
Mr. Meros, you are
recognized.
MR. MEROS:
I apologize.
To be very clear as
23
to what Judge Lewis said and did not say about a
24
district at 43 percent and above.
25
just what I said before and that is Dr. Brunell
What he said was
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1
said that one could have a 50/50 chance, a flip of
2
the coin at 43.6 or 43.7 percent.
3
He never said and did not hint that going from
4
a certainty of an African-American being able, the
5
population being able to elect its candidate of
6
choice to a coin toss is not a diminishment.
7
matter of law, as a matter of common sense, it is.
8
9
As a
You might recall that the supporters of the
original Amendment VI to this body said with,
10
because the legislators had a concern about what
11
that might mean and whether that might mean that
12
there would be a deterioration or wiping out
13
minority districts.
14
that diminishment means diminishment, not fancy, it
15
is simple terms, diminishment.
16
They assured the Legislature
What does diminishment mean?
Does it lessen?
17
Does it lessen the ability to elect?
18
matter of common sense, as a matter of law, if you
19
go from 100 percent to tossing a coin you have
20
lessened the ability.
21
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
22
REPRESENTATIVE FULLWOOD:
23
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
I think as a
Further questions?
Yes.
Representative Fullwood,
24
you are recognized for a question.
25
REPRESENTATIVE FULLWOOD:
Thank you,
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1
Mr. Chair.
I do have a question for either Senator
2
Soto or Representative Thurston, Leader Thurston,
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3
LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
regarding this map. It appears, how many counties
4
are affected or how many congressional seats are
5
affected, and how many special elections would it
6
call for versus --
7
8
9
10
11
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
I am sorry, go
ahead.
REPRESENTATIVE FULLWOOD:
Versus the PCB that
is before us?
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Thank you, Leader
12
Thurston, you are recognized.
13
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
Yes, as counties
14
affected is three, districts affected is three as
15
well.
16
not sure about that.
17
18
19
20
As far as how many special elections, I am
REPRESENTATIVE FULLWOOD:
say that -VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Representative Fullwood,
do you have a follow up?
21
REPRESENTATIVE FULLWOOD:
22
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
23
24
25
So is it suffice to
Yes, Mr. Chair.
Okay.
You are
recognized.
REPRESENTATIVE FULLWOOD:
meeting, Mr. Chairman.
You run a great
I want to say that.
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VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Is that your question?
2
REPRESENTATIVE FULLWOOD:
No, no, no, that was
3
just a statement.
So my question to whomever would
4
be, since it only affects three districts, would
5
this equate to only needing three special elections
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6
LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
versus potentially seven special elections with the
7
committee piece?
8
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Thank you, Member
9
Thurston, you are recognized.
10
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
11
12
13
14
I would defer to
staff to that question.
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Mr. Preda, do you have
an answer then, you are recognized?
MR. PEREN:
Well, as of right now there
15
wouldn't be any special elections.
16
Judge Lewis to decide.
17
18
19
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
That is up for
All right, seeing no
further questions.
REPRESENTATIVE FULLWOOD:
Follow up, thank
20
you, Mr. Chair.
Hypothetically if the Judge
21
decides to -- to have special elections for all of
22
the districts that were affected, would this
23
hypothetically only cause three special elections
24
versus the seven special elections if we adopt the
25
Bill that is before us, the primary Bill, the
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2
3
Committee Bill?
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Who is your question
directed to, Representative?
4
REPRESENTATIVE FULLWOOD:
5
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
6
To staff.
Mr. Preda, you are
recognized?
7
MR. PREDA:
8
hypothetically.
I suppose that would be correct
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9
10
11
LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY: Representative Berman,
you are recognized for a question.
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
12
When Mr. Preda did his analysis there was a piece
13
called, Proposed District 5 Functional Analysis
14
Chart, and it references the presidential and
15
gubinatorial campaigns.
16
Was any -- I know this is all very recent, but
17
was any type of similar analysis done for the
18
amendment proposed by Representative Thurston?
19
20
21
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Mr. Preda, you are
recognized.
MR. PREDA:
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
As I
22
mentioned before, yes, we looked at the same data
23
points, we did the same basic functional analysis.
24
I didn't have time to prepare a chart, but I could
25
certainly prepare those numbers for you.
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1
all available in My District Builder, but I looked
2
at those same data points as well as any others
3
that are available in the program.
4
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Do you have a follow up?
5
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
6
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
7
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
Yes.
You are recognized.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
8
When Attorney Meros just did his presentation he
9
referenced the Kendrick Meek race which is a
10
Senatorial race, and these two on this chart are
11
the President and Governor race.
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And I was wondering why there was a difference
13
between that, the races that were being used in the
14
analysis?
15
16
17
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Mr. Meros, you are
recognized.
MR. MEROS:
That is a particularly important
18
race because that is a race where there is an
19
African-American versus a white candidate, and also
20
a Hispanic candidate.
21
and hopefully being able to assess turn out,
22
performance in -- in an election relating to, that
23
has an African-American and a white.
24
25
So one is always looking at
And so statewide elections, presidential,
Senatorial, gubinatorial are all good elections.
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One can also look at local elections for
2
polarization, so.
3
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
4
MR. MEROS:
Any question?
So there is no one subset of
5
election data that is perfect.
6
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Ranking Member Thurston,
7
you are recognized for a question.
8
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
9
Mr. Chair.
Thank you,
Counsel, I think it goes to our
10
question about earlier that I asked you why were
11
you infusing the Kendrick Meek's numbers, because
12
that election, I remember it was, the Kendrick Meek
13
race was when I guess Governor Crist was running as
14
an Independent and you had a Democrat, an
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15
16
LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
Independent and -- and you had a Republican.
So wouldn't those numbers be skewed in terms
17
of you trying to do some analysis based on a
18
Hispanic and a black and a white?
19
races you have got you don't have an Independent
20
throwing the numbers and the figures off like that.
21
So wouldn't that make your analysis kind of
22
irrelevant?
23
24
25
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
And these other
Mr. Meros, you are
recognized.
MR. MEROS:
Respectfully, no, sir, I think in
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fact it is, it is more probative than most
2
elections, because it is a white candidate or white
3
candidates versus an African-American candidate,
4
and the extent to which the African-American
5
candidate loses the black vote in another
6
configuration.
7
If Kendrick Meek gets 16 percent of the
8
African-American vote, has a margin of victory by
9
16 percent, and that goes down to one point
10
whatever percent, then that to me is a clear
11
showing that a -- that that alternative
12
configuration makes an African-American candidate
13
far less likely elected.
14
black and white election, so to speak, is very
15
probative.
16
17
So the fact that it was a
Now, if one were to look at other issues,
Republican versus Democrats or the impact of
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Independence apart from race, maybe that would be a
19
run off election, but it is very probative for this
20
sort of analysis in my opinion.
21
22
23
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
Follow up,
Mr. Chair?
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
I am going to let Chair
24
Corcoran, the Bill sponsor, he wants to respond to
25
that as well.
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CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
No, I think, Leader, I
2
think what you are asking and in agreement with
3
counsel, but the comparison is, it is the two
4
districts with the outcome of that race with the
5
Independent involved in both evaluations.
6
you see Kendrick's numbers significantly drop in
7
comparison to the two races and the two districts
8
is identical with the Independent being involved in
9
both analysis.
10
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
11
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
12
13
So when
That --
Do you have a follow up
question?
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
To the Chair, my --
14
thank you, Mr. Chairman.
15
though, when you do that type of comparison, I
16
don't know how you can determine, you know, whether
17
the white Democratic voted for Kendrick Meek
18
because he was a Democrat or the white Independent
19
didn't vote for him.
20
I just was wondering
I think that, you know, your analysis now
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become so convoluted that I don't know what type of
22
probative value I would give that or, I guess that
23
is why we were wondering why all of the other
24
analysis that race wasn't used, but here it is
25
being used as some significant factor.
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2
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Chair Corcoran, you are
recognized to respond.
3
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
I think Attorney Meros has
4
gone over all of it.
5
but in that particular race it is probative that
6
looking at the two districts side by side in the
7
exact same identical race, that Kendrick Meek would
8
go from a 16 point margin of victory to less than
9
two.
10
It is a multitude of factors,
That is the probative value that clearly
11
suggests something in the difference between the
12
district's ability to elect a candidate of their
13
choosing.
14
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
15
questions?
16
recognized.
17
Are there any other
Mr. Meros, I am sorry, you are
MR. MEROS:
Yes, sir, thank you.
If I may add
18
one thing so that the Leader can understand
19
something that I have not yet said, and that is in
20
the trial the expert witness on behalf of the
21
NAACP, Dr. Richard Instagram, who is the preeminent
22
voting rights expert over the past 30 years,
23
testified that that election, the Meek election,
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was the most probative election to assess polarized
25
voting in the northeast area and to assess whether
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1
an alternative configuration of CD 5 was a
2
diminishment.
3
And so this is not just George Meros talking,
4
this is an expert on whom many have relied for
5
many, many years on careful Voting Rights Act
6
analysis.
7
8
9
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Representative
Rodriguez, you are recognized for a question.
REPRESENTATIVE RODRIQUEZ:
Thank you,
10
Mr. Chair.
11
think, I don't think any of this line of
12
questioning is -- it questions what the Judge
13
determined that there is racially polarized voting
14
in northeast Florida.
15
question.
16
So to continue along this line, I don't
I don't think that is the
But when we look at the -- the Meek, Crist,
17
Rubio race, the question I have is, was there any
18
analysis done of the Democratic primary, because in
19
that, in that race you did have a white candidate
20
and a black candidate in the Democratic primary?
21
Did you look at any of that, and the reason I
22
am asking the question is because what seems
23
troubling with the analysis that you present is it
24
seems, it makes an assumption that every single non
25
African-American Democrat would have not voted for
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1
Meek.
2
data you presented, which intuitively doesn't make
3
any sense.
4
It sort of seems to be implication of the
So if you could talk about did you look at the
5
primary election in that year?
6
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
7
8
9
Mr. Meros, you are
recognized.
MR. MEROS:
Representative, I can tell you
that Dr. Instagram and with regard to the
10
diminishment standard I believe did look at all of
11
that.
12
testimony at trial and he has a report.
13
cannot recount exactly what was analyzed there, but
14
I feel confident that something like that was
15
evaluated.
16
I would be happy to provide that from the
So I
Now, certainly this does not suggest that
17
there is no crossover voting, but there is a
18
substantially less crossover voting in this area
19
than there is in many others.
20
zero crossover, but it is much, much less
21
crossover.
22
So it may not be
And so that very much factors into the
23
diminishment issue, and also the issue of whether a
24
black Democrat can win a primary versus a white,
25
but I will be happy to provide that, the transcript
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and the exhibits.
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2
3
4
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
You are recognized for a
follow up.
REPRESENTATIVE RODRIQUEZ:
Thank you Mr. Chair
5
on follow up.
So the answer to the question is
6
that you did not look at that from the primary?
7
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
8
MR. MEROS:
9
Mr. Meros.
At trial the NAACP presented
Dr. Instagram's testimony.
That was -- we were
10
not, he was not a co-expert, but we relied on his
11
expert testimony in support of the fact that an
12
east/west configuration would be a diminishment.
13
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
14
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
15
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
16
17
Any further questions?
One last question.
One last question,
Ranking Member Thurston, you are recognized.
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
On the map that is
18
proposed today, can -- what is the break down of
19
the Kendrick Meek race on that map?
20
21
22
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Mr. Meros, you are
recognized.
MR. MEROS:
I don't have that in front of me.
23
I don't know if Mr. Preda does, but we can provide
24
it and perhaps Mr.
25
law partner.
Bardos.
Mr. Bardos does, my
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2
3
4
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
further questions.
MR. MEROS:
All right, seeing no
We do?
Okay, he does have it.
If I may, Mr. Chair, if I may just
Mr. Bardos to answer that question.
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5
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
6
MR. MEROS:
7
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
8
MR. BARDOS:
9
10
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
Okay, I apologize, I am ready.
All right.
With regard to this 2010, Senate
Kendrick Meek, 46.7 percent, Rubio, 35 percent,
Crist, 18.3 percent.
11
12
Okay.
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
All right, follow
up.
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Follow up, you are
recognized.
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
What is the
diminishment there, if any?
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Mr. Meros, you are
recognized.
MR. MEROS:
That has to be compared to the
20
other map, and I don't -- I don't have that number
21
right here.
22
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
All right, seeing no
23
further questions we will go on to public testimony
24
on the amendment.
25
Is there any public testimony on the
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1
amendment, on the amendment alone?
2
seeing no public testimony we will go into debate.
3
All right,
Does anybody wish to debate the amendment?
4
All right, seeing no one wishing to -- Chair
5
Corcoran, you are recognized in debate on the
6
amendment.
7
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN: First, thank you, Senator,
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8
I appreciate your effort, I appreciate your concern
9
for the state.
More than anything I appreciate
10
that it was not a rhyme and we had to sit through a
11
poem or something along those lines, but it was
12
probably hard to get all of those BVAPs and make
13
them rhyme, but maybe you could put it in a Rap
14
song or something.
15
But anyway, I just want to say that, but to
16
his map and to the map that -- the underlying map,
17
the underlying map, basically the only thing as
18
Representative Fullwood pointed out, is it affects
19
three Congressional Districts and three counties,
20
but nowhere in the opinion was that an issue.
21
The whole reason we are here is because the
22
Judge said, find and tender and validated it, and
23
would those be invalidated, fix those in relation
24
to the compactness, maintaining Tier 1 standards,
25
and only those that are necessary to fix 5 and 10.
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And so when you look at the legal requirements
2
of why we are here, both in the call and both in
3
the Order, when it comes to compactness both visual
4
compactness, our plan is more visually compact than
5
theirs.
6
our affected districts compared to Senator Soto's
7
map, in all of them we have at least one of the
8
Reock or convex hull performance measures that are
9
better than his map, and four of the seven we are
10
Under all of the measurements and all of
better in both measurements than in his map, and in
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11
both 5 and 10, which is why we are here and what
12
was ruled as invalid, we are better in both
13
measurements in Reock and convex hull.
14
On the BVAP, our BVAP again is 48.11.
His I
15
think from counsel and from reading the case as was
16
described by the expert that Judge Lewis even
17
mentioned about it being a 50/50 coin toss, it is a
18
clear diminishment and a clear Tier 1 violation of
19
the Constitution.
20
His still goes into Seminole County which the
21
Court went to great lengths to talk about the
22
finger that went into Seminole County with relation
23
to Congressional District 5.
24
split one more city than we do.
25
And in addition they
So, so all of the legal aspects of why we are
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here, our map is superior on every single
2
measurement and the only thing that you could say
3
is that his affects three Congressional Districts
4
where our affects seven, but nowhere did the Judge
5
say that was something that needed to be addressed.
6
He said fix 5, fix 10 and those Congressional
7
Districts necessary to do that, which our map does.
8
9
And finally I would say as counsel pointed
out, I also believe given the testimony there
10
certainly appears to be a clear Tier 1 violation in
11
terms of intent.
12
13
All of that being said I would ask you to vote
down the amendment.
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14
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Any further debate?
15
right, seeing no further debate, Ranking Member
16
Thurston, you are recognized to close on your
17
amendment.
18
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
All
Thank you,
19
Mr. Chair, and thank you for providing a tight
20
meeting as well.
21
I just want to say that I, too, want to thank
22
Senator Soto for all of the effort that he and his
23
staff put in putting this map together, and, you
24
know, certainly, certainly he didn't have all of
25
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certainly didn't have thousands of pounds of
2
resources that you all had to put the map together
3
as well, but not withstanding that, I think this
4
gets to the heart of the concern of some in the
5
state with regards to his process or with regards
6
to drawing these maps.
7
We all had a limited amount of time to review.
8
In fact, your Bill, your map that we received
9
yesterday, we only had a couple hours to review
10
before we were asked to come here and make a
11
decision on that, but I would say this.
12
We received hundreds of calls about other
13
districts that if we are coming in here for a
14
session that individuals want us to address and
15
they think that, even some of our members have made
16
some suggestions to me about their districts and we
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17
understand that the Judge has limited us to 5 and
18
10.
19
But if 5 and 10 inadvertently gives us the
20
ability to have impact on others, not with the
21
intent of making it more competitive, but if we are
22
going to move people around and we are, then
23
certainly I think that is a factor that we should
24
consider when we look at Senator Soto's Bill,
25
because one of the things he talked about was that
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while his intent was to focus on 5 and 10, it had
2
to affect evening up the lines a little bit in some
3
other districts.
4
the general public that is probably what they want
5
to see us do.
6
And, you know, I think if you ask
I find it interesting that there was an
7
analysis done on the map that Senator Soto drafted
8
as it relates to Kendrick Meek's race, but not as
9
it relates to the map that we are here to vote on
10
that we don't have an analysis of that.
11
just kind of a little strange to me if that was
12
going to be a line of defense to say why we
13
shouldn't go with this map.
14
That is
But in all due respect, the fact that there is
15
impact only on three counties as opposed to seven,
16
the fact that we are going to have potentially have
17
a special election for three as opposed to seven, I
18
think those are factors that we should actually
19
give some consideration to.
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20
Again, I do want to thank the Senator for his
21
technical expertise that he brought to this
22
process, and I would ask that you let's consider
23
this map seriously and vote up on the Thurston/Soto
24
amendment.
25
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Ranking Member Thurston
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2
having closed on his amendment.
All those in favor of the amendment signify by
3
saying yes.
4
(Yes.)
5
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
6
signify by saying no.
7
(Chorus of nays.)
8
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
9
All those opposed
The no's have it.
Seeing two hands, Missy, will you call the roll?
10
READING CLERK:
Representatives Berman?
11
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
12
READING CLERK:
13
REPRESENTATIVE CALDWELL:
14
READING CLERK:
15
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
16
READING CLERK:
17
REPRESENTATIVE CUMMINGS:
18
READING CLERK:
19
REPRESENTATIVE FULLWOOD:
20
READING CLERK:
21
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
22
READING CLERK: And McGhee?
Page 84
Yes.
Caldwell?
No.
Corcoran?
No.
Cummings?
No.
Fullwood?
Yes.
McBurney.
No.
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23
REPRESENTATIVE MCGHEE:
24
READING CLERK:
25
REPRESENTATIVE METZ:
No.
Metz?
No.
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1
READING CLERK:
Oliva?
2
REPRESENTATIVE OLIVA:
3
READING CLERK:
4
REPRESENTATIVE PASSIDOMO:
5
READING CLERK:
6
REPRESENTATIVE RODRIQUEZ:
7
READING CLERK:
8
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
9
READING CLERK:
No.
Passidomo.
Yes.
Rodriguez?
Yes.
Thurston?
Yes.
And Young.
10
REPRESENTATIVE YOUNG:
11
READING CLERK:
12
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
No.
It fails.
The amendment having
13
been defeated we are back on the Bill, and I
14
understand there is public testimony.
15
16
The first appearance card, Evelyn Fox with the
NAACP.
17
Hello.
MS. FOX:
Ms. Fox, you are recognized.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good morning,
18
Mr. Chair, members of this Committee.
19
Evelyn Fox and I am a resident of Gainesville,
20
Alachua County, and Congressional District number
21
5.
22
My name is
I am the Vice Chair of the Alachua County
23
Democratic Party.
24
of the Alachua County Branch of the NAACP.
25
I currently serve as President
I testified in the Romo-Detzner trial recently
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1
held in the Second Circuit Court.
2
the Judge's ruling concerning Congressional
3
District number 5 being unconstitutional, and
4
understand that the responsibility that has been
5
placed upon this body to create a legally
6
enforceable Congressional Redistricting Plan.
7
I have reviewed
Alachua County has benefited from being a part
8
of Congressional District 5.
Our Congressional
9
Representative has been a hands on and accessible.
10
She has brought millions of dollars to our
11
community.
12
of our VA Hospital, and most recently our transit
13
system has been completely revamped and is being
14
named in her honor.
She was responsible for the renovating
15
African-American voters in Alachua County will
16
be harmed if Gainesville is not a part of the Fifth
17
District.
18
to their full participation of the political
19
process.
20
the communities in District 5.
21
continuing needs are the same.
22
Minority voters already face challenges
We share the common concerns of all of
Our history and
I am familiar with the Plaintiffs' proposal to
23
remedy the issues found in the Court with the
24
current Congressional Plan.
25
District 5 to run along the Florida/Georgia border
The plan calls for
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1
between Jacksonville and Tallahassee.
Alachua
2
County will be left out of the district.
3
So ladies an gentlemen of this Committee,
4
after sitting here and listening to all of the
5
testimonies, I strongly urge you to support House
6
Bill 50, excuse me, 9057.
7
Thank you so much.
8
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
9
I appreciate that.
Thank you.
appearance card is Dave Landry, Vice President of
10
Florida State Conference, NAACP.
11
Dale, I am sorry, Dale.
12
you are recognized, thank you.
13
The next
MR. LANDRY:
Mr. Landry.
Mr. Landry, in any event
Mr. Chair, thank you, and
14
members, my name is Dale Landry.
I am here today
15
to speak on behalf of the Florida State Conference
16
of the NAACP Branches on the Congressional
17
Redistricting process on the way here, and I am
18
asking that this be read into the record as I read.
19
I am the fourth Vice President of the Florida
20
State Conference under the leadership of our State
21
Conference President, Adora Obi Nweze, the Florida
22
NAACP has been involved in the recent redistricting
23
process and litigation in an effort to ensure that
24
the voting rights of black voters in the state are
25
not diminished or diluted.
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1
2
Because I will not have time to cover all of
the information that I would like to cover with
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3
LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
you, I have brought copies of a letter the Florida
4
NAACP sent to the members of the Senate
5
Reapportionment Committee and the House Select
6
Committee and submit those as my additional written
7
testimony.
8
9
The Florida NAACP formally and publicly
supported Amendment V and VI because of the
10
minority voting protection that those amendments
11
would enshrine in the State Constitution.
12
certainly did not support an interpretation of the
13
amendments that would undermine the electoral
14
successes achieved by black voters in recent years.
15
We
We are being dismayed that parties in recent
16
litigation have adopted such an interpretation and
17
have vigorously argued that Congressional District
18
5 still serves as a much needed remedy in north
19
central Florida.
20
a fair opportunity to participate in the political
21
process.
22
A remedy that offers black voters
We understand the ruling of Judge Lewis and
23
what you all are tasked with doing during this
24
Special Session.
25
that the district remain oriented in a north/south
We are here to convey our demand
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1
direction and that it continue to offer to black
2
voters in the existing district the opportunity
3
they have enjoyed since 1992.
4
5
Judge Lewis did not rule that Congressional
District 5 was unconstitutional because it went
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6
LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
north and south, that much is clear.
7
Legislature did the right thing in 2012, when it
8
maintained the districts general orientation that
9
way.
10
I am a resident of Leon County.
The
I know what
11
taking district, Congressional District 5 out to
12
the west that some people have urged would mean.
13
Congressional District that goes from Jacksonville
14
to Tallahassee cannot be a replacement for a
15
Congressional District that runs from Jacksonville
16
to Orlando.
17
First, a dramatic change to the district like
18
that will leave out thousands and thousands of
19
black voters used to being in Congressional
20
district 5.
21
a candidate of their choice.
22
acceptable or constitutional option.
23
A
They would no longer be able to elect
This is not an
Second, an east/west configuration of the
24
district will create the illusion of a black
25
opportunity district, but it will be just that, an
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1
illusion.
2
northern Florida counties and those people cannot
3
vote.
4
There are a number of prisons in
Additionally, black voter turn out in this
5
region of the state isn't as strong or reliable as
6
it is down south of here.
7
Finally, during litigation the Florida NAACP
8
commissioned Dr. Richard Instagram to analyze the
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9
LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
effect of taking a district in a westward direction
10
from Jacksonville.
11
the ability of black voters to elect their
12
candidates of choice.
13
trade off these districts like some have suggested.
14
The district must be maintained in its current
15
configuration.
16
He found that would diminish
As such, you simply cannot
The Florida NAACP strongly urges the
17
Legislature to maintain the current configuration
18
of District 5 to the extent possible.
19
in the current district have been -- have benefited
20
greatly from being in the district and voters there
21
would be irreparably harmed if they were excluded
22
from the district when the Legislature redraws it.
23
The counties
When the redistricting amendments were adopted
24
in 2010, we celebrated the fact that Florida was
25
going to be a leader in the country by offering
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1
state constitutional protection to minority voters.
2
The action that this body is about to take needs to
3
adopt that spirit and remember that black voters
4
are not just numbers on a map.
5
The NAACP and its members have fought long and
6
hard to ensure that the electoral gains we have
7
made are not lost, and we ask you to join in that
8
fight with us.
9
Again, we want to thank you for your time and
10
we want to thank this Committee for giving us the
11
opportunity to speak.
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12
13
LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY: Thank you, Mr. Landry.
Is there any other public testimony?
14
Seeing none, is there any debate?
15
Seeing no debate, Chair Corcoran, you are
16
17
recognized to close on your Bill.
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Members, I would just like
18
to say thank you for everyone's participation in
19
the questions.
20
difficult to be called back in having been told by
21
a court that something we did was impartially
22
invalid.
23
clear, come and fix 5 and 10 and only those
24
districts that were directly related to the fix in
25
5 and 10, I think we have done that.
Obviously we are here, it is always
But I think that the Court Order was
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The plan that he had issue with, again, if you
2
compare it to the plan that we have put before you
3
today, again, in the compactness test in all seven
4
districts, this plan is superior to the one that
5
was thrown out in at least one measurement.
6
four of seven of the measurements it is better in
7
both the Reock and the convex hull score.
8
again, in 5 and 10, it is significantly better in 5
9
and 10.
10
In
And
In addition to that, we, I believe split one
11
less city, we split one more city and one less
12
county, city and counties.
13
we took care of the appendages that were in 47.
14
one other point comparison throughout the Order the
Page 91
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So in addition to that
As
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15
16
LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
Judge spoke in a favorable light in 9043.
If you compare this plan to 9043, again on
17
visual compactness, we score higher.
In most of
18
the Congressional Districts we score higher on 5
19
and 10.
20
that he spoke favorable of.
We are better in 5 and identical in 10
21
In addition to that, we have a higher BVAP of
22
48.11 where the Judge clearly spoke favorably of a
23
BVAP of 48.03 and 43.
24
clearly addressed his issue, we have done it with
25
affecting as minimal districts as possible, keeping
So I think that we have
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1
20 of the districts that he held valid completely
2
intact, and I would ask for your favorable support.
3
4
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
Chair Corcoran having
closed on his Bill, Missy, will you call the roll?
5
READING CLERK:
Representatives Berman?
6
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
7
READING CLERK:
8
REPRESENTATIVE CALDWELL:
9
READING CLERK:
Yes.
Caldwell?
Yes.
Corcoran?
10
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Yes.
11
READING CLERK:
12
REPRESENTATIVE CUMMINGS:
13
READING CLERK:
14
REPRESENTATIVE FULLWOOD:
15
READING CLERK:
16
REPRESENTATIVE MCGHEE:
17
READING CLERK:
Cummings?
Yes.
Fullwood?
No.
McGhee?
Metz?
Page 92
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No.
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18
LR-9820-HOUSE-8-8-P1
REPRESENTATIVE METZ: Yes.
19
READING CLERK:
20
REPRESENTATIVE OLIVA:
21
READING CLERK:
22
REPRESENTATIVE PASSIDOMO:
23
READING CLERK:
24
REPRESENTATIVE RODRIQUEZ:
25
READING CLERK:
Oliva?
Yes.
Passidomo?
Yes.
Rodriguez?
No.
Thurston?
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1
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
2
READING CLERK:
3
REPRESENTATIVE YOUNG:
4
READING CLERK:
5
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
6
READING CLERK:
7
VICE CHAIR MCBURNEY:
8
9
10
11
12
13
Young?
Yes.
Chair McBurney?
Yes.
It passes.
By your vote we have
adopted the Bill.
And at this time I would return the Gavel to
Chair Corcoran.
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Thank you, Chair McBurney,
and thank you for doing a wonderful job.
And with that, members, Representative
14
Caldwell moves we rise.
15
meeting is adjourned.
16
No.
Without objection, the
Thank you.
(Whereupon, the proceedings were concluded.)
17
18
19
20
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CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4
5
I, CLARA C. ROTRUCK, do hereby certify that I
6
was authorized to and did report the foregoing
7
proceedings, and that the transcript, pages 02 through
8
103, is a true and correct record of my stenographic
9
notes.
10
11
12
Dated this 14th day of August, 2013, at
Tallahassee, Leon County, Florida.
13
14
____________________________
15
CLARA C. ROTRUCK
16
Court Reporter
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
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4
5
6
7
8
9
10
SENATE SPECIAL SESSION - REAPPORTIONMENT
11
AUGUST 11, 2014
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
Reported by:
21
CLARA C. ROTRUCK
22
Court Reporter
23
24
25
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2
P R O C E E D I N G S
SECRETARY:
Quorum call, please, all Senators
3
indicate your presence.
4
will please leave the Gallery.
5
guests in the Gallery, please silence all
6
electronic devices.
7
8
9
All Senators and
All Senators, please indicate your presence.
A quorum is present, Mr. President.
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
The Senate will be in order.
10
READING CLERK:
11
conducting of business.
12
All unauthorized persons
The quorum is present for the
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
The Senators and guests in
13
the Gallery will please rise for the opening prayer
14
that will be given this afternoon by the Senator of
15
the 16th, Senator Altman, and following Senator
16
Altman's invocation, please remain standing for the
17
Pledge of Allegiance, and the Pledge will be led
18
this afternoon by the Senator of the 22nd, one of
19
our military veterans, Senator Brandes.
20
Altman.
21
SENATOR ALTMAN:
Senator
Heavenly Father, we come to
22
you with humility.
We give you thanks, we thank
23
you especially for this precious place we call
24
Florida and for those who dwell and visit here.
25
represent them.
We
May the decisions we make here for
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them reflect your love, for we know that you are
2
the God of love and we serve you by loving one
3
another.
4
Let us also give thanks to those who serve to
5
protect our freedoms and to those who have come
6
before us and have secured our freedoms.
7
this in your Holy Name, Amen.
8
9
10
11
12
13
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Amen.
We pray
Senator Brandes,
thank you for your service, sir, and you are
recognized.
(Whereupon, the Pledge of Allegiance was
recited.)
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
You may be seated.
Thank
14
you all for your presence today and for your
15
service last week and this week during the special
16
session.
17
We have some Senators who are absent today and
18
are excused.
Senator Stargel, who is out of the
19
continental United States, Senator Latvala, who has
20
a serious medical condition, he is seeing a
21
physician today.
22
threatening, but it is orthopedic in nature.
23
Please keep Senator Latvala in your prayers.
24
Senator Evers and Senator Joyner are on their way
25
here, but they have been held up by inclimate
Please, it is not life
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weather.
2
before the end of the day, but we do have Senators
3
who are absent for reasons that are legitimate and
4
valid.
5
Therefore, they will be here, we hope,
At the suggestion, and it was a good one, of
6
our Democratic Leader, Senator Smith, we delayed
7
the session today to attempt to accommodate
8
Senators who are grounded from air travel, and
9
therefore, had to arrive a little later than they
10
had planned, because they drove long distances, a
11
couple of them are still in the car.
12
I am grateful for the cooperation and the
13
coordination of Leader Smith and Leader Benacquisto
14
in working with us and in working with our partners
15
in the House of Representatives on scheduling and
16
procedures for this week.
17
I certainly want to thank Chairman Galvano and
18
the members of his committee, Leader Smith,
19
Senators Bradley, Montford, Gibson, Lee and Simmons
20
and the Apportionment Committee staff for the work
21
that they have been doing.
22
A few words about our schedule for this week,
23
how we will proceed today.
We want everyone to be
24
informed, we want everybody to stay involved.
25
first thing we will do today is take up the Bill
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that has been filed, which is the work product of
2
the Reapportionment Committee, including the
3
traveling amendment by Senator Galvano, that is the
4
first thing we will do today.
5
We will have a full explanation of the
6
Committee's recommendations to this body,
7
recommendations which came to this body with the
8
unanimous bipartisan vote.
9
understanding of those recommendations or
We want a full
10
implications and consequences.
11
the time necessary to make sure that we can do
12
that.
13
We will take all
Then as is customary and according to rules we
14
will take up other amendments which have been
15
filed.
16
couple of late filed amendments that are not in
17
their proper filing posture yet and we are going to
18
be accommodating to the Senators who have filed
19
those amendments, to the committee's work.
Now, I would tell the Senate that we have a
20
So therefore, it may be necessary for us
21
because of the schedule and Bill drafting, and they
22
are working very hard with the sponsors of these
23
amendments, it may be necessary for us to take a
24
short recess, and if so, I ask your indulgence, but
25
we want to be respectful to any Senator who has an
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idea, and we want to take all the time that is
2
necessary.
3
Today our objective is to proceed forward into
4
second reading.
5
reading.
6
a couple that have not been filed yet and will be
7
late filed.
8
will be pacing along side our partners in the
9
House, and therefore, we want to make sure that we
10
complete our business in tandem with our partners
11
in the House.
12
Perhaps we will get through second
As I noted, we have amendments, including
Perhaps we will get further, but we
The members of the Senate will set the pace
13
for the Senate.
There is not a leadership pace or
14
a requirement or expectation from either of the
15
caucuses as to how we will proceed in terms of
16
schedule.
17
will be here for every minute of that time if
18
necessary to make sure that everyone has the
19
opportunity to share their ideas and to be heard.
20
The special session has us here on the floor for as
21
long as we need to be here today, tomorrow,
22
Wednesday, Thursday, and until 11:59 a.m. on
23
Friday.
We are here until Friday noon, and we
24
If at any time, because we are certainly
25
dealing with issues here that may cause questions,
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we want questions.
2
needs explanation about the process or about any
3
matter of substance, please feel free to seek out
4
the Rule's Chair, seek out your Caucus Leader and
5
to make inquiries of the Presiding Officer, and we
6
will make sure that before we proceed we deal with
7
any questions having to do with either process or
8
substance.
9
If at any time any Senator
Our method of operation today and for the
10
remainder of the week is to take all the time
11
necessary for a complete explanation of every
12
amendment.
13
sponsor, time or every Senator who wants debate, to
14
debate any and every issue.
Time for questions of the amendment
15
Let me stop there and ask if there are any
16
questions about scheduling or about the process
17
that we will follow as we go forward this week.
18
Any questions by any Senator?
19
20
21
22
23
If not, then let's continue with the regular
order.
Are there reports of committees?
READING CLERK:
None on the desk, Mr.
President.
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Are there motions relating
24
to committee reference?
25
READING CLERK:
None on the desk, Mr.
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3
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5
6
7
8
9
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15
16
President.
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Are there messages from the
Governor and other Executive communications?
READING CLERK:
None on the desk, Mr.
President.
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Are there messages from our
friends in the House of Representatives?
READING CLERK:
None on the desk, Mr.
President.
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Are there matters on
reconsideration?
READING CLERK:
None on the desk, Mr.
President.
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
If not, take up the special
order calendar and read the first Bill.
READING CLERK:
Senate Bill 2-A, a Bill
17
entitled and relating to the establishment of a
18
Congressional Districts of the state.
19
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Galvano, the Senator
20
of the 26, the Chair of the Reapportionment
21
Committee is recognized to explain the Bill.
22
SENATOR GALVANO:
Thank you, Mr. President,
23
and if I may, I would go into the traveling
24
amendment and then I guess when the substitute
25
amendment that is in process arrives, then I can
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make the distinction between the traveling
2
amendment and the substitute amendment, which is
3
technical in nature.
4
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
All right, Senator Galvano,
5
let's just get ourselves in proper posture.
6
up and read the traveling amendment to which
7
Senator Galvano refers.
8
READING CLERK:
9
10
Galvano.
Take
Bar Code 726240 by Senator
Delete everything after the enacting
clause and insert amendment.
11
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Galvano.
12
SENATOR GALVANO:
Thank you, Mr. President.
13
Mr. President, Senators, this amendment is the
14
amendment that was adopted unanimously in the
15
Senate Reapportionment Committee last Friday.
16
The amendment contains the remedial plan known
17
as 9057 and you can see 9057 on the map behind you,
18
and it was also part of the staff analysis and has
19
been available now since last Thursday.
20
The idea behind 9057 was, first and foremost
21
was to continue to meet the requirements of the
22
Federal Constitution, Federal laws, the State
23
Constitution, and then pursuant to the call to meet
24
the requirements and address the concerns
25
enunciated by the Circuit Court in Romo versus
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2
Detzner.
Just by way of recap the Court found concern
3
with two of the 27 Congressional Districts that
4
were enacted by the Legislature.
5
that the Court had concern with were District No. 5
6
and District No. 10.
7
The two districts
The concern that the Court had with District 5
8
was that there was an appendage that went off from
9
District 5 into Seminole County capturing Sanford.
10
The Court found that this appendage made the
11
district not compact.
12
that there was some irregularity in the shape of
13
this district.
The Court also recognized
14
The Court found that the appendage which
15
captured Sanford elevated the BVAP or black voting
16
age population over 50 percent to make it a
17
majority/minority district and the Court felt like
18
that move was not justified.
19
With regard to District 10, the Court's
20
specific concern was an appendage that wrapped
21
around the bottom and went in between Districts 5
22
and 9, and the Court found that that appendage
23
which would have created a Hispanic opportunity
24
district in No. 9, again, was not justified, and
25
from those two appendages the Court inferred a
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violation of Tier 1 and 10.
2
So the question was, how do we address the
3
concerns of the Court.
Well, at the end of the day
4
the Court's concerns were captured within Tier 2.
5
What I mean by Tier 2 is, once you get passed
6
intent, in other words, that you are not benefiting
7
an incumbent or a party or reducing the ability of
8
a racial minority to elect a candidate of its
9
choice, then you go into the physical
10
characteristics of the district, which include
11
compactness and population and following geographic
12
and political lines.
13
There were three approaches that were looked
14
at.
The first approach was more of a minimal
15
approach.
16
specific language that was in the July 10th Final
17
Judgment, being about the appendages, and just
18
those and regain population solely on the
19
appendages.
Do we just go in and take the very
20
The next approach was to look at 9043, and
21
9043 as you will recall was the last iteration from
22
the House in the process before the enacted map.
23
And the reason that even became part of the
24
discussion was because the Court in its opinion did
25
use a reference 9043 as a model while impeaching
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9047.
2
referenced 9043.
3
Also the Plaintiffs in the case had
The problem that arose with 9043 is that it
4
would have impacted nine districts in total, and we
5
didn't feel like it was an absolute safe harbor.
6
The language that the Court used was not so strong
7
as to give us confidence that if it were that map
8
then all would be okay.
9
So ultimately what was done as an approach was
10
to address the specific concerns of the Court, to
11
very carefully study the Final Judgment and then
12
cull out any instructive information that we could
13
to use the Judgment, the Order that came afterwards
14
to see if we could make things better across the
15
board and to continue to improve all of the Tier 2
16
scores for District 5 and District 10.
17
So to begin with District 5.
The very first
18
thing that was done was to remove the Sanford
19
appendage.
20
30,000 people.
21
Seminole County was then rendered full.
22
regain population though for CD 5.
23
The Sanford appendage contained about
When that appendage came out
We had to
Remember I mentioned the irregular shape.
One
24
of the things that was done to regain population
25
was in Putnam County.
The western or eastern
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boundary of CD 5 was along Alachua County, that was
2
moved to the St. Johns River which is a
3
geographical boundary.
4
In doing so it improved the compactness of the
5
district, picked up roughly 23,000 voters and
6
addressed the concerns with the serpentine nature.
7
In addition, some additional voting population was
8
picked in in Marion County, moving to the west and
9
to the south, about 8,000 people.
10
After having adjusted CD 5 we did a functional
11
analysis with regard to the BVAP.
12
goal going in, but we wanted to make sure that in
13
making the adjustments we didn't diminish and
14
violate Tier 1 in Federal law.
15
functional analysis we found that the black voting
16
age population was now at 48.03.
17
the benchmark, the benchmark being the map prior to
18
the enacted map that was 49.9.
19
less than over the 50 percent which the Judge found
20
objectionable and not constitutional.
21
We didn't have a
When we did the
It is down from
Obviously it was
So with that BVAP score a functional analysis
22
was run.
All of you have seen it in the staff
23
analysis that was put forward, and at the end of
24
the analysis the conclusions of staff and counsel
25
and the Committee was that the impact did not
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2
diminish.
In other words, this district still performs
3
in such a way that the minority population can
4
elect a candidate of its choice and there is not
5
retrogression.
6
With regard to Congressional District 10, that
7
is the one as I mentioned that has the appendage
8
that went up through the bottom and split 5 and 9.
9
That appendage was removed.
That appendage has
10
about 105,000 people in it.
The population that
11
was contained in that appendage was regained in
12
Orange, Osceola and Polk County by moving the line
13
of 10 more eastward.
14
In impacting 9 we were also able to then lift
15
CD 17 up so that the northern boundary would run
16
along the southern boundary of Osceola.
17
districts impacted 6, 7, 9, 11 and 17 were all
18
adjusted and frankly they all came out after the
19
adjustment more compatible both visually and
20
mathematic.
The
21
So as a result of the new map, 9057 or I
22
should say the proposed map that includes the
23
amendments to 5 and 10, in CD 5 first and foremost
24
you have an improved visual compactness, because
25
this is important, because both the Supreme Court
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as well as the Circuit Court uses this as a
2
guidance.
3
anything else.
4
It is just as valid a criteria as
You can look at it and see that you now have a
5
more compact district.
Several areas of the
6
serpentine curves have been removed and it also has
7
a new mathematical compactness that exceeds where
8
it was.
9
do remember and some of you who don't, the Reock is
Its Reock score, and for those of you who
10
essentially the test which takes a circle, the
11
smallest circle that can encompass and circumscribe
12
the district, and then you do a ratio of the land
13
mass that is in that circle to the overall area of
14
that circle.
15
Well, the Reock for CD 5 in 9057 represented
16
by this amendment goes from .13 from a point .09.
17
A significant increase.
18
this is what we call the rubber band test, because
19
you create a polygon around the district and you
20
use the areas inside of the straight lines that are
21
a calculated area that is not filled with district
22
to come up with that score.
23
The convex hull score, and
The convex hull went from .29 to .42.
The
24
district results, though shorten, albeit modestly,
25
but the perimeter now has decreased by 124 miles.
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With regard to CD 10 the Reock score went to .42
2
from .39.
3
The convex hull went to.83 from .73.
And again, the impacts to surrounding
4
districts were minimized.
A total of seven
5
districts were impacted, including 5 and 10, and
6
from the standards set forth in the Final Judgment,
7
as well as the existing law in the cull, I am
8
confident that these amendments in the remedial
9
plan meets the requirements.
10
The other point I wanted to make is that the
11
Bill has an applicability date, the applicability
12
date is after the general election in 2014.
13
is not to somehow create an issue for the Judge.
14
Instead it is consistent with where the Judge has
15
been in the August 1st Order, trying to decide
16
where he would go in terms of an election, but it
17
does ensure that the votes that have taken place
18
now, the military ballots, the absentee ballots,
19
the preparation will continue until the general
20
2014.
21
date, then the new maps will apply.
22
general overview, Mr. President and Senators.
23
24
25
This
Should there be a special election post that
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Chairman.
Thank you very much, Mr.
Are there questions?
LEADER SMITH:
And that is a
Leader Smith.
Thank you, Mr. President.
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question would be about your last comment and the
2
concerns that I have is the election process.
3
Under this map, say if the map were to pass
4
today and the Judge approve it, will you have
5
people voting in one race, but immediately being
6
represented by someone in another district?
7
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Galvano.
8
SENATOR GALVANO:
No, if we pass this map, the
9
election that is pending right now would remain
10
undisturbed.
11
were to occur post the general in November.
12
It would only be if another election
For example, if the Judge decided when we go
13
back on the 20th of August, said, you know what, I
14
think we can enact these maps, I am going to call a
15
special election or extend the existing election,
16
then these maps would be addressed.
17
existing maps would control through the end of this
18
general.
19
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
20
LEADER SMITH:
Otherwise the
Leader Smith.
Just so I understand.
So
21
currently there are districts that are being deemed
22
unconstitutional.
23
unconstitutional, and people are voting in those
24
districts that are unconstitutional.
25
A Judge has said that they are
So if we vote on this today and this map
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passes, we will continue to elect people and count
2
votes in unconstitutional districts.
3
that is what we will be doing.
In essence,
4
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Galvano.
5
SENATOR GALVANO:
You will have votes
6
continuing in CD 5 and CD 10.
7
votes, military votes and otherwise, and this is
8
also, Leader Smith, not a unique situation in
9
American law.
10
11
We have had already
Oftentimes when you have a case such
as this it actually runs to the next cycle.
But given where we are in the process, and we
12
had to have a start date, while at the same time
13
giving the Judge the discretion and leeway that he
14
has begun to opine about, that is why we ended up
15
with this date.
16
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
17
Questions for the Chairman?
18
Senator Clemens for a question.
19
SENATOR CLEMENS:
Further in questions?
Further in questions?
Thank you, Mr. President.
20
Can you talk a little bit about how the map was
21
developed in terms of staff usage and your role and
22
others' roles in developing the map?
23
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Chairman Galvano.
24
SENATOR GALVANO:
Yes, thank you, Mr.
25
President.
Well, first let me explain the backdrop
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that we are in.
We convened this session under a
2
Joint Approximation that specifically referenced a
3
Court Order.
4
constraint for us to gather and complete a remedial
5
plan by next Friday.
That Court Order created a time
6
So with that backdrop, immediately upon
7
appointment of the Committee, both Chairs Corcoran
8
and myself directed staff to work in collaboration
9
with each other, as well as with legal counsel to
10
begin to develop a remedial plan.
11
Last Wednesday myself and Chair Corcoran spent
12
pretty much from dawn until midnight going over the
13
Court Orders, looking at possible ways to address
14
the map and putting together a map that was
15
eventually finalized early afternoon on that next
16
Thursday.
17
After that map was filed, which was an
18
amendment under my name to the Senate Bill 2-A, the
19
hearing was held on Friday, where it was discussed
20
and testimony was taken and voted and here we are
21
today.
22
23
24
25
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Clemens to follow
SENATOR CLEMENS:
Thank you, Mr. President.
up.
So the map was developed all with in-house staff,
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in-house attorneys, no outside consultants of any
2
nature?
3
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Galvano.
4
SENATOR GALVANO:
Thank you, Mr. President.
5
We had in-house staff.
6
counsel there.
7
the House, but there were no consultants and there
8
were no other political interests that participated
9
in the process.
10
11
12
We did have contract
Justice Cantero, Meros, Bardos from
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Clemens to follow
SENATOR CLEMENS:
Thank you, Mr. President.
up.
13
Just a question about the map specifically.
In
14
order to accommodate the Judge's Order you had
15
mentioned earlier that you moved the, I guess it is
16
the eastern boundary near the southern end of
17
District 10 to the east to increase the population
18
there.
19
That border now that lies under this new map
20
between 10 and 9, is there a geographic nature to
21
that boundary?
22
there was a St. Johns River issue that you used as
23
a boundary.
24
to that portion of the map?
25
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
I know you had said northern that
But is there a geographical boundary
Chairman Galvano.
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SENATOR GALVANO:
Thank you, Mr. President.
2
Yes, there is both geographical and a political
3
boundary.
4
Kissimmee, I believe, and then in Polk I believe it
5
runs along a roadway.
6
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
In Osceola it is the western boundary of
Before we go to further
7
questions, Madam Secretary, please unlock Senator
8
Evers' button.
9
Evers.
Thank you for being here, Senator
I know you had to go through some bad
10
weather, and we appreciate you being here, sir.
11
Further in questions for Chairman Galvano?
12
13
Senator Gibson.
SENATOR GIBSON:
Thank you, Mr. President.
14
And because we didn't go over this a lot in
15
committee, we dealt mostly with the boundaries and
16
the numbers, I want to make sure I understand the
17
special election piece, because I am a little
18
confused on that part.
19
20
So when we make the effective date, what did
you say the date is, I am sorry?
21
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Galvano.
22
SENATOR GALVANO:
Thank you, Mr. President.
23
The applicability date of these maps is for any
24
election held after the 2014 general election.
25
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Gibson.
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SENATOR GIBSON:
Thank you, Mr. President.
So
2
if the Judge as he has indicated decides that he
3
wants to call a special for those affected
4
districts, it would be after November 4th, and then
5
qualifying starts all over.
6
And so those Congressional candidates who had
7
already qualified and paid the filing fees for the
8
current unconstitutional districts and those that
9
were constitutional, but certainly impacted, would
10
then have to requalify and pay the filing fees all
11
over again?
12
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Galvano.
13
SENATOR GALVANO:
Thank you, Mr. President.
14
Yes, and I think therein lies the whole rub and
15
that is why the Court has not decided that it
16
actually can or will have an extension of the 2014
17
election, or have a general election.
18
When you look at the mechanics of that, and
19
you nailed it, the qualifying, reopening, it just
20
becomes extremely difficult.
21
the Judge we wanted to make sure that nothing we
22
did indicated anything but the utmost respect for
23
the Order, we established the date at post-2014, as
24
opposed to the next cycle so that if there were
25
some decision by the Court, his hands wouldn't be
But in deference to
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2
tied legislatively.
I can't comment on legally.
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Gibson, does that
3
exhaust your questions for the moment?
4
Sobel for a question.
5
6
SENATOR SOBEL:
Senator
Thank you, Mr. President, and
Senator Galvano for your hard work.
7
You mentioned that Congressional Districts 5,
8
10, 6, 7, 9, 11 and 17 would be impacted with your
9
revised map.
10
How many voters are we actually
talking about in all those districts?
11
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Chairman Galvano.
12
SENATOR GALVANO:
Thank you, Mr. President.
13
If you are talking about voters who are moving, you
14
have, well, if you start with Sanford there is
15
30,000 there.
16
another 105,000.
17
talking about 23,000 and with Marion you are
18
talking about 8,000, and then you have a couple of
19
line moves that have tens, total, tens of
20
thousands.
21
Then you go to CD 10, that is
With Putnam County you are
So there is a significant number of voter
22
change.
Twenty-three counties are involved.
23
you can't really go in and make any adjustments on
24
just a couple of districts without impacting
25
others, but understand that great care was taken to
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minimize the impact on the other districts, because
2
frankly the Court upheld 25 out of 27 districts.
3
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
4
SENATOR SOBEL:
5
Senator Sobel.
Quick math, about 170,000
voters?
6
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Chair Galvano.
7
SENATOR GALVANO:
Thank you, Mr. President.
8
9
Yes, based on your math.
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Sobel, are you
10
finished for the moment?
11
SENATOR SOTO:
Senator Soto.
Thank you, Mr. President.
12
Senator Galvano, what was the reduction in Hispanic
13
voting age population in District 9?
14
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Galvano.
15
SENATOR GALVANO:
Thank you, Mr. President.
16
Senator Soto, we only did one functional analysis.
17
We didn't do a performance or functional analysis
18
on any of the other districts, because the Court
19
had recognized that CD 5 was, in fact, a minority
20
district, albeit he didn't feel we were justified
21
in bringing it to a minority/majority district.
22
With regard to CD 9 when we put the appendage
23
in, in the enacted map it did create a Hispanic
24
opportunity district, but the Judge said again that
25
was not justified.
So when we moved population, we
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didn't come back into CD 9 to do a functional
2
analysis on Hispanic voting nor did we do a
3
performance analysis.
4
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
5
SENATOR SOTO:
6
Senator Soto.
Thank you, Mr. President.
Was
it a reduction?
7
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Chair Galvano.
8
SENATOR GALVANO:
Again, without seeing the
9
exact numbers I can't tell you, but we did pull the
10
appendage that came up in Orange County out and
11
picked up voters in Polk and Osceola.
12
likely there would be a reduction.
13
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
14
SENATOR SOTO:
So most
Senator Soto.
Thank you, Mr. President.
Why
15
was Osceola split in half between Districts 9 and
16
17?
17
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Galvano.
18
SENATOR GALVANO:
Thank you, Mr. President.
19
CD 9 had really a significant impact with regard to
20
CD 10.
21
moved in that area.
22
amount of population.
23
I mean, there was a large number that had
So it picked up a significant
When we looked at the total impacts of CD 9
24
and then the opportunity to in adjusting population
25
bring the northern end of 17 up which picked up
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maybe 1,000 people in a rural community, and at the
2
same time it would increase the compactness score
3
of 9, which certainly the Judge will find
4
favorable, we decided that that was an appropriate
5
step to take.
6
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
7
SENATOR SOTO:
8
Senator Soto.
Thank you, Mr. President.
Why
was downtown Orlando included in District 9?
9
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Galvano.
10
SENATOR GALVANO:
Thank you, Mr. President.
11
Again, the concern that the Circuit Court brought
12
out specifically, and a lot we had to cull out, but
13
one was specific, was the appendage into CD 9.
14
That is where therein lies that area.
15
So we knew at a minimum that the Court found
16
the appendage objectionable, the Court found that
17
it negatively impacted compact scores, compactness
18
scores, and we knew that that was a starting point.
19
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
President Margolis.
20
PRESIDENT MARGOLIS:
Senator, when you were
21
talking about District 4 and explaining what
22
happened with District 4 because it had gained
23
population, I am sorry, District 5, because it had
24
gained population and you then said, so we had to
25
diminish population.
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And then you kind of said something about like
2
it is like less 45,000 voting people.
3
say whether they were blacks or not blacks.
4
really didn't give us a breakout of who this 45,000
5
was.
6
population, certainly was diminished.
7
You didn't
You
And in the percentage of that black
So perhaps you can be very specific about how
8
many blacks you have taken out and who is
9
diminished, were they voting age population people.
10
Who was diminished?
11
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Chairman Galvano.
12
SENATOR GALVANO:
Thank you, Mr. President.
13
President Margolis, let's start with the benchmark.
14
The benchmark map which is the map prior to the
15
enacted map, had a BVAP, a black voting age
16
occupation of 49.9 percent.
17
2012, that BVAP was brought from 49.9 to 50.05.
18
it actually became a majority/minority district.
19
The Court deemed that moving from 49.9 to a
In the enacted map in
So
20
50.05 majority/minority was not justified and
21
instead found that the result was an appendage that
22
went into Seminole County that impacted Tier 2
23
considerations, the compactness, et cetera.
24
25
So when we went back and redrew these maps
there wasn't any particular goal.
It was just a
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question of recreating a more compact district, but
2
at the same time we had to be aware of and avoid
3
diminution, a retrogression, and that is not an
4
exact science even legally.
5
that the Supreme Court put forth to determine
6
whether retrogression has occurred or hasn't
7
occurred.
8
9
There are standards
In the after situation we had a 48.11 percent
BVAP, black voting age population.
The staff ran a
10
functional analysis looking as far back as '08
11
election, '10 election, '12 elections, and it was
12
determined that this would not result in a
13
retrogression of the minorities ability to elect a
14
candidate of its choice.
15
Also we took guidance from map 9043, which had
16
a 48.03 BVAP and the Court had not found that
17
number objectionable.
18
are at 48.11 percent.
19
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
20
PRESIDENT MARGOLIS:
So at the end of the day you
President Margolis.
You said something about
21
losing, going down to 45 percent.
Not to
22
48 percent, but going down to 45 percent from the
23
49 percent I think, and I just -- I just want you
24
to be very specific about what happened.
25
complaining about it, I am just saying what
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happened?
2
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Chairman Galvano.
3
SENATOR GALVANO:
Thank you, Mr. President.
4
There is no 45 percent.
If I led you to understand
5
that, then that is my mistake.
6
48.11 percent.
7
then we would start to have some legal issues with
8
regard to diminution.
9
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
I think if you got to 45 percent
President Margolis.
10
PRESIDENT MARGOLIS:
11
tape you will hear that.
12
It is
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
If you will listen to the
President, did you have any
13
other comments at this point, any other questions?
14
If not, Senator Montford.
15
SENATOR MONTFORD:
Thank you, Mr. President.
16
First of all, Senator Galvano, thank you for your
17
hard work.
18
evenings, and your staff as well.
19
I know it was early mornings, late
My question, I believe you said there were 22
20
counties impacted.
And I know in the testimony the
21
other day, by the way, thank you for your memo in
22
terms of how sensitive we should be as to who we
23
talk to and I think that was exceptionally good
24
advice.
25
trouble and I appreciate that.
For myself, I know it kept me out of
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In terms of those 22 counties, I know you have
2
been pressed for time, but has there been any input
3
from those Supervisors of Elections?
4
one that testified before the Committee last week
5
and his answer to my question, is it doable, and I
6
believe he said no.
7
I know we had
But I am wondering if there has been any input
8
in any way from the Supervisors of Elections which
9
would give support to the recommendation that this
10
take effect after the November 14 election?
11
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Chairman Galvano.
12
SENATOR GALVANO:
Thank you, Mr. President.
13
It is actually 23 counties.
14
we heard was heard in committee by the whole
15
Committee.
16
communication with Supervisors of Elections, but I
17
think we had a very thorough explanation of the
18
hardships of conducting an election immediately
19
after the general, before the sitting of the next
20
Congress.
21
And the testimony that
There has not been separate
So that is the testimony that we have.
The
22
call did not require us to make a determination on
23
that and the Court has reserved jurisdiction to
24
make its decision.
25
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Montford, is that it
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for now?
2
questions of the sponsor.
3
Senator Thompson, you are recognized for
SENATOR THOMPSON:
Thank you, Mr. President.
4
Senator Galvano, one of the concerns that the Judge
5
had with regard to the constitutionality of the
6
maps was whether or not they were drawn to benefit
7
one party over another.
8
9
Does the map that you are proposing here
address that, and does it change anything with
10
regard to whether one party benefits from the way
11
the lines are drawn compared to another?
12
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Chairman Galvano.
13
SENATOR GALVANO:
Thank you, Mr. President.
14
The map that is before you, we took guidance from
15
the Court.
16
intent, which would have the Tier 1 violation was
17
based mainly on what he deemed manifestation in
18
Tier 2, the appendages, et cetera.
19
Ultimately the Court's inference of
So we addressed those Tier 2 considerations.
20
The catch-22 is this.
If we were to go back and
21
say, let's reengineer these districts so they
22
perform differently, then we have once again or we
23
have then violated Tier 1.
24
Tier 1 is that there not be intent irrespective of
25
the effect.
The requirements of
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So I guess to answer your question, to the
2
extent the Court identified certain features of
3
these districts that gave the Court guidance in
4
inferring intent, yes, we addressed those features.
5
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
6
SENATOR THOMPSON:
Senator Thompson.
Thank you, Mr. President.
7
Senator, so in term of the outcome, the map that we
8
are going to vote on today, would you say leaves in
9
place the outcome of benefiting one party over
10
another?
11
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Galvano.
12
SENATOR GALVANO:
Thank you, Mr. President.
13
The only functional analysis that was done was a
14
functional analysis with regard to the minority
15
performance in CD 5, because the Court had
16
recognized that as a minority district we did no
17
other functional analysis for any of the other
18
districts.
19
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
20
Further in questions?
21
question.
22
SPEAKER THRASHER:
Further in questions?
Speaker Thrasher for a
Thank you, Mr. President.
23
Senator Galvano, I was not on the committee and
24
thank you, Mr. President for that.
25
But could you just kind of give us an overview
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of the committee structure and the process you went
2
through?
3
it is important for everybody to know, because many
4
of us weren't here to hear the committee
5
deliberations, but how you actually approached it,
6
what your process was?
7
committee for the Bill that we are discussing now.
8
That sort of thing.
9
overview of that?
I don't mean to belabor it, but I think
What was voted on the
Could you just give us an
10
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Galvano.
11
SENATOR GALVANO:
Yes, thank you, Mr.
12
President.
13
issued an Order on August the 1st.
14
required that the Legislature submit a remedial
15
revised plan no later than noon this Friday.
16
Again, what occurred is the Court
That Order
So immediately we were in a different world
17
than traditionally.
18
followed the Court Order and ordered or required us
19
to convene a special session for the sole and
20
exclusive purpose of addressing the concerns raised
21
by the Court in Romo v. Detzner with regard CD 5,
22
CD 10.
23
The Joint Proclamation
Understanding the short time frame both Chair
24
Corcoran in the House and myself reached out to our
25
staff, which by the way, the President and the
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staff has been unbelievable in this process.
2
we said, began to collaborate with your
3
counterparts as well as legal counsel, but that is
4
it.
5
process given how we got here and the short time
6
constrains.
7
What
We didn't want any other influences in the
Once the staff began to lay the background on
8
Wednesday, we began doing some map drawing and that
9
included legal counsel for the House, George Meros
10
and Andy Bardos and legal counsel for the Senate,
11
Justice Raoul Cantero, as well as respective staff.
12
And we looked at different approaches to take,
13
and not to belabor it either, but again we said we
14
can start with the very specific things that the
15
Judge has pointed out, the appendages in 5 and 10.
16
We could go back and look at 9043, because even the
17
Plaintiffs used that to try to impeach 9047, but
18
then ultimately we decided let's address the
19
specific concerns of the Judge, continue to make
20
these districts better in Tier 2 considerations
21
across the board, and impact as few districts as
22
possible.
23
That process went through the day and frankly
24
until midnight and beyond on Wednesday, and then on
25
Thursday, it was finished and early afternoon a map
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was put out in the House and the Senate for the
2
members to see and review that with a possible
3
amendment deadline for the next day for our
4
committee hearing on Friday.
5
On Friday the committee with Vice Chair Leader
6
Smith, Senator Montford, Senator Gibson, President
7
Lee, Senator Simmons and Senator Bradley convened
8
at 10:15a.m.
9
p.m.
We had reserved a block until 6:00
We discussed the Bill, we heard public
10
testimony, we voted and adopted the amendment that
11
I am discussing now.
12
unanimously and then we prepared to come in here
13
for special order, and here we are.
The Bill was incidentally
14
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
15
SPEAKER THRASHER:
Speaker Thrasher.
In the testimony that you
16
referred to either on Thursday or Friday in your
17
committee, was there any testimony from the
18
Supervisors of Elections?
19
asked that, but I would be curious to know if there
20
was any actual testimony.
21
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Chairman Galvano.
22
SENATOR GALVANO:
Thank you, Mr. President.
I know Senator Montford
23
Yes, we did have testimony from the Seminole County
24
Supervisor, who appeared before the committee and I
25
frankly paraphrased this, he said, if there is
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going to be an election that takes place before the
2
seating of the next Congress, that I think he used
3
the phrase, some Federal and State laws are going
4
to have to change.
5
practical.
He didn't see how it was
6
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
7
SPEAKER THRASHER:
Mr. Speaker.
In reference to the
8
applicability issue, that testimony I presume was
9
somewhat persuasive in terms of how they, because
10
they had actually as I understand it testified in
11
the Court case that brought us to where we are, but
12
they raised some serious and substantial concerns
13
about the implications of the new election prior to
14
the end of the general election cycle this year,
15
did they not?
16
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Galvano.
17
SENATOR GALVANO:
Yes, they did.
And I think
18
the Court, itself, if you read the August 1st Order
19
by Judge Terry Lewis, he does not conclude he can
20
or will conduct an extended or special election.
21
He recognizes the challenges that take place, but
22
he said he feels as though he at least needed to
23
consider it and that is why he directed in his
24
Order the Department of State to come forward with
25
their recommendations.
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2
3
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Further in questions?
Senator Simmons for a question.
SENATOR SIMMONS:
Thank you, Mr. President,
4
and also thank you for appointing me to the
5
committee.
6
7
8
9
10
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Well, I love both you and
Speaker Thrasher.
SENATOR SIMMONS:
I do in a way, also, Your
Honor, in a way.
Chairman Galvano, at the committee meeting on
11
Friday, there was a testimony by the NAACP and they
12
had two individuals who were leaders of the NAACP,
13
long time leaders of the NAACP, and they spoke very
14
eloquently about the need to retain Congressional
15
District No. 5 in the form that you had kept it in
16
your Bill as amended.
17
And they spoke about the historical
18
cohesiveness of the district and they, of course,
19
spoke about the creation of the district by Federal
20
Judges rather than the Legislature.
21
of going from Duval County down to Orange County
22
being something that was, in fact, created by
23
Federal Judges for the purposes of compliance with
24
the Voting Rights Act.
25
And the idea
Could you explain to us why you felt it was
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important to maintain the general location, as well
2
as the black voting age population of 48 percent in
3
the Congressional District in your map?
4
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Chairman Galvano.
5
SENATOR GALVANO:
Thank you, Mr. President.
6
And I think you enunciated several of the
7
characteristics, the cohesiveness, the historical
8
nature.
9
Remember the benchmark which is CD 3 as I
10
recall came to us in the '90s, in really a
11
bipartisan at the time the Florida House of
12
Representative was controlled by Democrats.
13
believe the Senate had a very narrow Republican
14
margin and Lawton Chiles was the Governor and that
15
is when it came together.
16
I
The testimony was very compelling in committee
17
with regard to the cohesive nature of the
18
north/south district.
19
made no objection to the north/south configuration.
20
Why it was important not to diminish is very
21
simple, that is part of Tier 1, it is part of
22
Federal law and we wanted to, while addressing the
23
Judge's concern that it wasn't necessary to go to a
24
majority/minority district, we didn't want to
25
impact the performance of the district, such that
And incidentally the Judge
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the minority population could not elect a candidate
2
of its choice.
3
analysis.
That is why we did the functional
4
Our comfort level at the 48 percent when we
5
ran the numbers was based first on the idea that
6
9043 which was discussed was by the Court, the
7
Court didn't find that was a diminution, but when
8
we ran the functional test later that was
9
confirmed.
10
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
11
SENATOR HAYS:
Senator Hays for a question.
Thank you, Mr. President.
12
Senator Galvano, back to the potential opportunity
13
for a special election.
14
was contacted by two Supervisors of Elections.
15
I am concerned because I
In the remarks to the Committee the other day,
16
did the Supervisor from Seminole County point out
17
the difficulty in securing polling locations for a
18
special election that may conflict with venues that
19
are already obligated?
20
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Chairman Galvano.
21
SENATOR GALVANO:
Thank you, Mr. President.
I
22
think very specifically the testimony involved the
23
timing, which would if you were looking at where
24
you would have a primary for example would be in
25
that block of time in December, which are commonly
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2
the holidays.
He raised an antidotal concern about the
3
availability of polls, many being of church
4
properties, and then also poll workers, the
5
availability of poll workers.
6
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
7
SENATOR HAYS:
Senator Hays.
Is there any allowance going to
8
be made for financial considerations?
Because one
9
of the Supervisors who contacted me is from a
10
relatively small county, and if I understood you
11
correctly, you said this impacts 23 different
12
counties, and this small county said just one
13
special election would impact their budget to more
14
than $375,000.
15
If we multiply that alone times 23 we are
16
looking at some serious money, and that particular
17
county is already considering an 18 percent
18
increase in their property taxes this year.
19
is going to fund the special election?
So who
20
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Chairman Galvano.
21
SENATOR GALVANO:
Thank you, Mr. President.
22
And all of these are valid concerns.
I would just
23
remind all of the Senators that that decision in
24
terms of having an extended special election has
25
not been determined.
And when I read the Court
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Order, I don't believe that the Court feels very
2
confident about the ability to do that, but the
3
Court did not want to just summarily dismiss it.
4
With regard to the cost ultimately, that would
5
be part of the Court Order and it would seem that
6
the Legislature would probably be making that
7
payment, but again the Order has not been issued.
8
9
10
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Further in questions?
Senator Bradley for a question.
SENATOR BRADLEY:
Thank you, Mr. President,
11
and I also wanted to thank you for putting me on
12
the Committee.
13
matters of the heart, but thank you.
I was not going to comment about
14
Senator Simmons was very correct that we
15
received compelling testimony at Committee from our
16
friends in the NAACP regarding the history of CD 5,
17
why it exist and how it has progressed over time.
18
We also heard from legal counsel, both for the
19
House and the Senate regarding our legal
20
obligations both under these newly adopted
21
amendments to our State Constitution, as well as
22
Federal law, in that we have an obligation to
23
prevent retrogression.
24
25
So what I would like you to discuss with the
Senate because I found it very compelling, was our
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consideration and discussion of a map that the
2
League of Women Voters had offered that included a
3
horizontal District 5.
4
drawing CD 5, in that it did not go north/south,
5
but instead went east/west, and within it was an
6
impact on the BVAP of going from the benchmark of
7
49.9 in the League map to 49.1.
It was a different way of
8
We had a discussion with our lawyers at
9
Committee about whether if the BVAP was reduced to
10
45.1 would that put this map in danger of being
11
subject to challenge and thrown out by a State
12
Court or a Federal Court.
13
discussion with our lawyers?
14
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Could you discuss that
And Senator Galvano, before
15
you respond to Senator Bradley.
16
thank you for going through storms and bad weather
17
and changing modes of transportation and doing
18
everything you could to get here.
19
and we are glad you are here safely.
20
very much.
21
22
23
Senator Joyner,
We welcome you
Thank you
Chair Galvano to respond to Senator Bradley's
question, please.
SENATOR GALVANO:
Thank you, Mr. President.
24
Yes, that discussion did occur in Committee and
25
counsel was specifically referring to it in terms
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of being the Plaintiffs' map as we looked at the
2
status of the litigation and what had been put
3
before the Court.
4
And the number in BVAP reduction from the
5
benchmark to the proposed Plaintiff or League map
6
is correct as you have enunciated, too, at the
7
45 percent.
8
just with regard to the percentage reduction, but
9
the cohesiveness and the historical characteristics
10
of the community that runs back and forth which are
11
all considerations to take into that you look at
12
when you do a functional analysis.
13
The testimony that we heard was not
When you get, go from a 49.9 down to a 45, I
14
think you then do go into the dubious area of
15
retrogression and it certainly would be a concern.
16
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Bradley, follow up.
17
SENATOR BRADLEY:
Thank you, Mr. President.
18
Senator Galvano, isn't it also correct that in
19
Judge Lewis' opinion he spoke approvingly of
20
testimony from Alex Kelly who is a staff member
21
with the House regarding the BVAP performance of
22
particular House iterations of CD 5 that included
23
BVAPs of 47 to 48 percent?
24
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Chairman Galvano.
25
SENATOR GALVANO:
Thank you, Mr. President.
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Yes, you are correct.
2
reference 9043, that is the map we are talking
3
about, and the BVAP in 9043 was 48.03.
4
9057, which is in the amendment here is 48.11.
5
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
6
Chairman Galvano?
7
in questions?
8
9
Again, that is when I
The BVAP in
Further in questions for
Further in questions?
Further
My understanding, Chairman, is that you have a
substitute amendment which maintains all of the
10
provisions that you have described to the Senate,
11
but makes a couple of clarifications.
12
read the Galvano substitute amendment.
13
READING CLERK:
Late filed Bar Code 642398 by
14
Senator Galvano.
15
enacting clause and insert amendment.
16
Take up and
To delete everything after the
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Galvano, on the
17
substitute, would you please let the Senate know
18
where the clarifications are and any differences
19
between what you have just explained and the
20
substitute.
21
SENATOR GALVANO:
Thank you, Mr. President.
22
First of all, there is no substantive differences
23
with regard to the lines and where they are drawn,
24
nor is there any difference with regard to the
25
applicability date.
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What was adjusted was language within the
2
whereas clause with regard to CD 5 to make it more
3
conforming.
4
we create a new section in the substitute that
5
enacts these maps where we don't find ourselves in
6
a legally precarious position of having competing
7
or no set of enacted maps.
8
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
9
10
And then with regard to the sections
Questions on the substitute?
Questions on the substitute?
If not, Senators, if I may have your
11
attention.
12
is late filed that is being prepared by Bill
13
drafting right now.
14
Soto.
15
There is a strike hold amendment that
It is on behalf of Senator
Our commitment is that we are going to be fair
16
to every Senator, we are going to have a thorough
17
and complete discussion of every option.
18
because of the fact that it is late filed and it
19
came in rather late, it is not prepared yet for
20
everyone to see.
21
However,
So therefore, I ask the Senate in deference to
22
the fairness that this body is known for and in
23
deference to Senator Soto that you bear with us on
24
a short recess.
25
Therefore, the Senate will stand in recess
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until, what time do you want to stand in recess to?
2
We will stand in recess until, informal recess,
3
until 3:00 and we ask Senators to remain close to
4
the floor in case Senator Soto's amendment is
5
available sooner.
6
(Whereupon, the Senate was in recess.)
7
SECRETARY:
Quorum call, quorum call, all
8
Senators indicate your presence, all Senators
9
indicate your presence.
10
Quorum call, quorum call,
all Senators indicate your presence.
11
A quorum is present, Mr. President.
12
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
13
take their seats, please.
14
I would ask all Senators to
When last we tuned in the Galvano substitute
15
amendment 642398 was pending when we went.
16
Reading Clerk, please read the amendment.
17
READING CLERK:
Mr.
Late filed Bar Code 642398 by
18
Senator Galvano, delete everything after the
19
enacting clause and insert amendment.
20
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Galvano moved to
21
postpone action on his amendment so that we may
22
take up to the Soto amendment.
23
adopted without objection.
24
amendment.
25
READING CLERK:
Show that motion
Read the next
Late filed Bar Code 671078 by
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Senator Soto, delete everything after the enacting
2
clause and insert amendment.
3
4
5
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Soto, you are
recognized on your amendment, sir.
SENATOR SOTO:
Thank you, Mr. President.
6
Senators, as you know we are here in special
7
session because of the Order of Judge Lewis
8
striking down as unlawful the previous map.
9
there were two findings in that Order.
10
And
One was that District 5 was boosted up above
11
50 percent black voting age population.
12
second, that it contained two unusual appendages,
13
one consisting of Sanford and the other going deep
14
into Orange County.
15
And the
The other ruling was that District 10 was
16
drawn to favor a party and an incumbent.
17
along with my assistant, Christine Byron, my
18
legislative assistant, drew a map that affects
19
three districts, 5, 10 and 7 and it affects three
20
counties, Orange, Seminole and Lake.
21
So I,
We used the District Builder program, as well
22
as Judge Lewis' Order as our resources.
23
there what we had to do was address a few things.
24
25
And from
First, we had to adjust the appendage that was
in Seminole County which contained Sanford and we
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had to adjust the appendage that went down into
2
Orange County.
3
accordance with the Order.
4
Those have been shaved back in
Second, we had to make sure under the top tier
5
standards that we weren't diminishing of the
6
minority electorate to elect the candidate of their
7
choice.
8
by saying that they would at least have a 50/50
9
chance if the black voting age population was at
In that order the Judge quoted Dr. Brunell
10
43.6 percent, and this puts it at 43.7 percent, and
11
for the reason being that African-Americans make up
12
68 percent of the primary and 55 percent of the
13
total -- and Democrats make up 55 percent of the
14
total electorate.
15
So I believe that their ability to elect their
16
candidate of choice is still equal, and that even
17
Dr. Brunell's estimate was a conservative one.
18
The second part was dealing with Congressional
19
District 10, which again, the Judge held was
20
drafted to benefit a party and an incumbent.
21
so that district had to be adjusted in accordance
22
with the top tier standard to not benefit a party
23
or incumbent.
24
district we had to affect because of the Sanford
25
appendage was District 7, which also then complies
And
And as a result the only other
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now with the top tier factor which is to not
2
benefit or favor one party or incumbent over other
3
and that is the amendment, Mr. President.
4
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
5
Questions for the Senator?
6
amendment sponsor?
7
Thank you, Senator Soto.
Questions for the
Senator Simmons.
SENATOR SIMMONS:
Thank you, Mr. President.
8
Senator Soto, my questions to you are if you
9
compare your amendment to Senator Galvano's Bill as
10
amended, I am looking at the numbers and I see that
11
for yours for District 5 the black voting age
12
population is 43.71, right?
13
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
14
SENATOR SOTO:
15
16
President.
Senator Soto.
Sorry about that, Mr.
Correct.
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
And Senator Simmons, before
17
you ask your next question, I would like to
18
acknowledge Senator Latvala being on the floor, who
19
is here at some personal inconvenience to himself,
20
but came because he is serious about his
21
constitutional duties.
22
all the way up here after a medical appointment
23
today, Senator Latvala.
So thank you for driving
Senator Simmons.
24
SENATOR SIMMONS:
Thank you, Mr. President,
25
for a series of questions.
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2
3
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Let's take them one at a
time.
SENATOR SIMMONS:
All right.
Then for yours,
4
for District 5, the black voting age population is
5
43.71 percent.
6
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
7
SENATOR SOTO:
8
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Simmons.
9
SENATOR SIMMONS:
That is a reduction of about
10
Yes.
four and-a-half percent, five percent?
11
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
12
SENATOR SOTO:
13
Senator Soto.
Senator Soto.
It is a reduction down to 43.7
percent.
14
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Simmons.
15
SENATOR SIMMONS:
All right, now, for the
16
surrounding districts what happens is that the
17
black voting age population in the two other
18
districts that you affect which are 7 and 10,
19
Senator Galvano had for District 7, 10.87 percent
20
black voting age population and you have
21
10.73 percent black voting age population, correct?
22
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
23
SENATOR SOTO:
24
suggest, then yes.
25
Senator Soto.
If that is what the analysis
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Simmons.
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SENATOR SIMMONS:
Then for District 10 the
2
other affected district, the black voting age
3
population for Senator Galvano is 12.21 percent and
4
for yours for District 10, is 15.34 percent, is
5
that right?
6
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
7
SENATOR SOTO:
8
Senator Soto.
If the analysis suggest that,
then yes.
9
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Simmons.
10
SENATOR SIMMONS:
It is fair to say then that
11
probably that results in the reduction from the
12
original 50 percent down to 48 percent?
13
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
14
SENATOR SOTO:
Senator Soto.
Thank you, Mr. President.
As
15
you know the Judge told us that we had to unpack
16
District 5 because it was unconstitutionally packed
17
and reduce it above 50 percent.
18
certain African-American communities by necessity
19
of the Order had to be absorbed into other
20
districts.
21
seven districts, in my map there are two and those
22
were the resulting percentages.
So as a result
In Senator Galvano's map there were
23
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Simmons.
24
SENATOR SIMMONS:
So the affect then, Senator
25
Soto, is that if you look, other than that one
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change, the surrounding districts insofar as black
2
voting age population is concerned really is
3
negligible, as a matter of fact, very similar
4
between yours and Senator Galvano's, is that right?
5
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
6
SENATOR SOTO:
Senator Soto.
My understanding is that it is
7
boosted to 20 percent in Congressional District --
8
sorry, it is not a huge difference in the
9
African-American population difference between both
10
Senator Galvano and my map.
11
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Simmons.
12
SENATOR SIMMONS:
It is basically the same
13
other than the little two percent that we talked
14
about, right?
15
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
16
SENATOR SOTO:
Senator Soto.
There would be a difference,
17
because I don't take in those other five districts,
18
and not African-Americans in those districts, and
19
that was based again upon the Order that it was
20
unlawful packing in the Congressional District 5.
21
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Simmons.
22
SENATOR SIMMONS:
So the effect is there is no
23
reasoning that would justify creating minority
24
access districts in 7 and 10.
25
created a minority access district in 7 and 10, but
You clearly have not
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1
you have, in fact, reduced minority access in
2
District 5, is that right?
3
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
4
SENATOR SOTO:
Senator Soto.
District 5 required us through
5
Judge Lewis' Order to reduce the African-American
6
vote because there was unlawful packing, and Judge
7
Lewis also said that Congressional District 10 was
8
unlawful because it was there to benefit an
9
incumbent and a party.
10
And it also said that Sanford which was in
11
Congressional District 7 was an unlawful appendage.
12
The other appendage being in Congressional District
13
10.
14
populations of African-Americans that had to be
15
absorbed in those two seats, and they are in fact
16
in Senator Galvano's seat, Congressional District 7
17
absorbs Sanford because it is in that Seminole
18
County seat, and then Webster's seat, Congressional
19
District 10 held by Webster currently, absorbed
20
part of that African-American population.
So necessarily by his Order there were certain
21
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Simmons.
22
SENATOR SIMMONS:
So then the answer to my
23
question is, yes, you have not created a minority
24
access district out of 7 and 10, is that correct?
25
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Soto.
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2
SENATOR SOTO:
It was not my intent to create
minority access seats in either of those.
3
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Simmons.
4
SENATOR SIMMONS:
Therefore, we know that the
5
purpose of what you have done is not to create
6
minority access districts in 7 and 10, but there
7
has been a diminution of voting access rights for
8
African-Americans in 5.
9
Let's look at the Reock scores between yours
10
and Senators Galvano's.
11
has a Reock score of .127, is that right?
12
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
13
SENATOR SOTO:
14
Now, Senator Galvano's map
Senator Soto.
Whatever Senator Galvano said
his Reock score was, I am certain he is correct.
15
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Simmons.
16
SENATOR SIMMONS:
You have a significant
17
reduction in the Reock score from his, and your
18
Reock score is .099, is that right?
19
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
20
SENATOR SOTO:
Senator Soto.
Thank you, Mr. President.
I
21
applied Tier 1 standards primarily which require
22
that you cannot favor a party or an incumbent.
23
therefore, the only compactness I looked at was
24
visual.
25
resources we were allowed to use.
So
Also we were given strict rules about what
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So I didn't have anything other than visual
2
compactness from the tools that I described and
3
utilized.
4
of not benefiting a party or an incumbent in
5
Congressional District 10.
6
Tier 2 factors.
But I applied Tier 1 factors primarily
So it didn't get to
7
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Simmons.
8
SENATOR SIMMONS:
So what you did do is you
9
did not consider the Reock scores, right?
10
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Soto.
11
SENATOR SOTO:
12
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Simmons.
13
SENATOR SIMMONS:
Not only with respect to the
Yes.
14
convex hull scores, Senator Galvano's convex hull
15
score is .417, is that right?
16
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
17
SENATOR SOTO:
Senator Soto.
Whatever he had stated in his I
18
am sure is correct, but his map does not correct
19
the fact that Congressional District 10 was found
20
by the Court to be drawn to the benefit of the
21
Republican Party and the incumbent on page 34.
22
Therefore, I didn't get to the Tier 2 compactness
23
standards for Congressional District 10 because I
24
was complying with the Tier 1 standards that were
25
iterated in Judge Lewis' opinion.
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PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Simmons.
2
SENATOR SIMMONS:
Are you aware that the
3
convex hull result for yours is .329 and for
4
Senator Galvano is .417?
5
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
6
SENATOR SOTO:
Senator Soto.
Thank you, Mr. President.
7
did not do a convex or Reock analysis, so I
8
wouldn't know.
9
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Simmons.
10
SENATOR SIMMONS:
For the perimeters of
I
11
Congressional District 5, are you aware that the
12
perimeter for Senator Galvano's Congressional
13
District 5 is 582.7 miles, therefore, being more
14
compact and the perimeter on yours is 661.8 miles?
15
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
16
SENATOR SOTO:
17
Senator Soto.
If that is what the facts bear
out, then sure.
18
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Simmons.
19
SENATOR SIMMONS:
So if we look at all of
20
these issues and bring them to a culmination, we
21
know then, Senator Soto, that there was no
22
appreciable change in the black voting age
23
population for surrounding counties and Districts
24
10 and 7 as a result of what you have done.
25
We know that there has been a diminution in
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the Reock scores.
2
diminution in the convex hull scores and an
3
increase in the perimeters.
4
We know that there has been a
Senator Soto, that only leaves political
5
considerations.
Did you make any political
6
considerations with respect to the changes that you
7
made?
8
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
9
SENATOR SOTO:
Senator Soto.
No.
What I did is apply the
10
Tier 1 standards.
First you had to deal with the
11
packing issue of Congressional District 5.
12
then second, you had to deal with the Tier 1
13
violation for Congressional District 10, and what
14
came about is two seats that neither favor a party
15
or an incumbent in compliance with the Order,
16
unlike the original map which is still in violation
17
of the Order because it still has not changed
18
Congressional District 10 to change from what Judge
19
Lewis says.
And
20
I also find that District 10 was drawn to the
21
benefit of the Republican Party and the incumbent.
22
So my map considered those Tier 1 standards in
23
order to correct those, and so it did not go to the
24
Tier 2 standard with regard to compactness other
25
than visual compactness.
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PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Simmons.
2
SENATOR SIMMONS:
So because although I
3
disagree with what the Judge said about our duty to
4
inquire, I strongly disagree with the duty that is
5
imposed upon us to make a thorough and complete
6
inquiry into any map that is presented to us, and I
7
will discuss that more in my, in my debate.
8
9
But is it fair to say then, you did not look
and have anyone in your staff to analyze whether or
10
not there were any changes in the voting age
11
populations of either Democrats or Republicans in
12
the surrounding districts?
13
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
14
SENATOR SOTO:
Senator Soto.
We applied Tier 1 factors which
15
require us to look at whether or not a party or an
16
incumbent is favored or not, and that as I said
17
before, the resources we used were the information
18
on District Builder, as well as Judge Lewis'
19
opinion.
20
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Simmons.
21
SENATOR SIMMONS:
Because we are required
22
under the Judge's Order to make this inquiry, is it
23
then true that someone on your staff or on behalf
24
of your staff did an analysis as to the voting age
25
populations and the particular political parties in
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District 7 and 10?
2
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
3
SENATOR SOTO:
Senator Soto.
We looked at the voting age,
4
the black voting age populations in District 5 per
5
the Order, and then as I said, I applied the Tier 1
6
standards to both 7 and 10 as a result.
7
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Simmons.
8
SENATOR SIMMONS:
One last question then,
9
10
11
Mr. President, and that is, I am not sure I
understand.
Did you have or did you ask anyone to do an
12
analysis in 7 and 10 of the actual party
13
participation or performance?
14
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
15
SENATOR SOTO:
Senator Soto.
Again, it was a Tier 1 standard
16
that we applied to make sure that both of these
17
districts are not favoring either party or
18
incumbent, and that was my direction to the one
19
staff member who helped me out, Christine Byron.
20
There were no other parties who participated
21
in it per the very strict instructions with regard
22
to Senator Galvano and Representative Corcoran.
23
And so that was my instruction to my staff, to
24
apply those standards.
25
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
For the moment, are you
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finished, Senator Simmons?
2
case, Senator Bradley, you are recognized for a
3
question of the sponsor.
4
SENATOR BRADLEY:
All right.
In that
Thank you, Mr. President.
5
Senator Soto, so am I to understand you modified
6
the boundaries of District 10 and District 7 so
7
that it would be more likely that a Democrat would
8
be elected in Districts 7 and 10, isn't that
9
correct?
10
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
11
SENATOR SOTO:
Senator Soto.
No, I modified it to apply the
12
Tier 1 standard that it would not favor either
13
party or an incumbent.
14
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Bradley.
15
SENATOR BRADLEY:
Is District 10 and District
16
7 under your map configured so that it is now more
17
likely for a Democrat to be elected than they would
18
be under the prior configuration of District 10 and
19
District 7?
20
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
21
SENATOR SOTO:
22
Senator Soto.
I couldn't tell you because I
didn't run projections based upon voting trends.
23
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Bradley.
24
SENATOR BRADLEY:
Senator Soto, haven't you
25
said on social media, for instance, that your
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districts are drawn so that they are equally split
2
between Democrats and Republicans?
3
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
4
SENATOR SOTO:
Senator Soto.
Correct, and that is to apply
5
the Tier 1 standards that make sure that neither
6
party is favorable or an incumbent.
7
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Bradley.
8
SENATOR BRADLEY:
Okay, that is what I thought
9
you were getting at.
So what you are saying is,
10
you knew that District 10 and District 7 under the
11
current configurations have a certain
12
Republican/Democrat split and that the map that you
13
filed has more Democrats than the map that
14
currently exists, correct?
15
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
16
SENATOR SOTO:
Senator Soto.
Judge Lewis required us under
17
Congressional District 10 to do just that, to make
18
sure we applied the Tier 1 standards and not favor
19
a party or an incumbent, because he previously
20
found that it was drawn to benefit a party and an
21
incumbent.
22
do that.
So under the Order we were required to
23
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Bradley.
24
SENATOR BRADLEY:
Thank you, Mr. President.
25
So it is your understanding of Judge Lewis' Order
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and the law that it is our job to look at districts
2
and make sure that there are equal numbers of
3
Democrats and Republicans?
4
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
5
SENATOR SOTO:
Senator Soto.
It is our job to apply the Tier
6
1 standard that says that you are not supposed to
7
benefit a particular party or incumbent, and
8
because the Judge said, I also find that District
9
10 was drawn to benefit the Republican Party and
10
the incumbent, that required us under this Order to
11
look at District 10 and apply the Tier 1 standard.
12
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Bradley.
13
SENATOR BRADLEY:
I will take that as a yes.
14
Going to a Congressional District 5 which Senator
15
Simmons referred to, isn't it true that the
16
benchmark district has a 49.9 BVAP percentage, and
17
the Soto plan has a 43.71 BVAP?
18
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
19
SENATOR SOTO:
Senator Soto.
Thank you, Mr. President.
The
20
plan does have a 43.7 percent BVAP.
21
reference of 48 is not anywhere in the Judge's
22
Order.
23
bound to this benchmark, but it is not said
24
anywhere in that Order that we are bound by that.
25
The other
It has been a legal conclusion that we are
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Bradley.
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SENATOR BRADLEY:
Perhaps you didn't
2
understand my question.
3
the benchmark district, the 49.9 percent BVAP and
4
the Soto plan, 43.71 percent BVAP?
5
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
6
SENATOR SOTO:
7
What I asked was, isn't
Senator Soto.
Please clarify what you mean by
benchmark district.
8
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Bradley.
9
SENATOR BRADLEY:
The benchmark district is
10
District 3, 2002.
11
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
12
SENATOR SOTO:
13
Senator Soto.
The benchmark district as you
are referring to would be what it is then.
14
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Bradley.
15
SENATOR BRADLEY:
Thank you, Mr. President.
16
Okay.
Assuming that you are accepting that the
17
benchmark district is 49.9 BVAP and the Soto plan
18
you have acknowledged is 43.71 BVAP, does your map
19
decrease the ability of African-Americans to elect
20
a candidate of their choice in CD 5, which used to
21
be numbered in the benchmark district CD 3?
22
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
23
SENATOR SOTO:
Senator Soto.
No.
According to page 20 of
24
the analysis by the Judge, Dr. Brunell, an expert
25
retained by the House, suggested that there would
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be a 50/50 ability to elect a minority candidate of
2
choice with a BVAP as low as 43.6 percent.
3
We put it up 43.7 percent and I assert that
4
that is a conservative estimate.
And the reason is
5
is that African-Americans make up 68 percent of a
6
primary of the Democratic primary and they are also
7
55 percent, Democrats are 55 percent of the general
8
election.
9
ability to pick the candidate of their choice.
So I assert that they have an equal
10
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Bradley.
11
SENATOR BRADLEY:
Thank you, Mr. President.
12
So you do not accept the testimony that they only
13
have a 50/50 chance of selecting the candidate of
14
their choice?
15
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
16
SENATOR SOTO:
17
18
19
20
Senator Soto.
We exceeded that and I believe
it to be a conservative estimate.
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Further in questions,
Senator Bradley?
SENATOR BRADLEY:
You exceeded it by going to
21
43.7 instead of 43.6, is that what you are
22
describing as exceeding that?
23
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
24
SENATOR SOTO:
25
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Soto.
Yes.
Yes, sir, Senator Bradley
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2
for a question.
SENATOR BRADLEY:
So you, so you don't accept
3
the testimony contained in Judge Lewis' Order,
4
instead you dismiss it as being quote, unquote,
5
conservative?
6
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
7
SENATOR SOTO:
Senator Soto.
I looked at it and considered
8
it as a factor, but not the only and dispositive
9
factor.
10
11
12
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Further in questions?
Senator Bradley.
SENATOR BRADLEY:
Thank you for allowing me to
13
ask several questions.
I really appreciate the
14
courtesy, Mr. President.
15
What other factors then did you consider?
16
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
17
SENATOR SOTO:
18
19
20
21
Senator Soto.
I just briefly discussed the
primary aspect.
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Further in question, further
in questions for the sponsor?
SENATOR BRADLEY:
Senator Bradley.
One more question,
22
Mr. President, and again, thank you for your
23
courtesies.
24
25
I thought, I thought and maybe I
misunderstood, that you had made some statements
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publicly that you did not feel like you had
2
sufficient access to Senate staff, and that you
3
were an a lone wolf having to prepare this with you
4
and your aid, and if I misunderstood that statement
5
to the House, please clarify it.
6
But my question to you is, did you have any
7
requests that were made of Senate staff with
8
regards to preparation of this map that were
9
denied?
10
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
11
SENATOR SOTO:
Senator Soto.
I make no allegation that I was
12
denied any access to Senate staff.
Everybody has
13
been wonderful here.
14
instructions given by Senator Galvano and
15
Representative Corcoran to identify the resources
16
and those who helped out in it, suggested that that
17
was the only resource I used because that seemed to
18
be the cleanest way to do this.
I just merely, because of the
19
What you are referencing is a response to
20
whether I did a Reock or convex analysis and, no, I
21
did not do those analysis, but I don't allege that
22
at any point that I was denied access to any staff
23
if I wanted to have those analysis done whatsoever,
24
everybody has been great.
25
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Speaker Thrasher for a
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2
question.
SENATOR THRASHER:
Thank you, Mr. President.
3
This is just a real simple question, not as complex
4
as the ones you have been asked, Senator Soto,
5
because this is really coming from me, but it is
6
really out of curiosity, okay.
7
The President put together this committee and
8
three members of your political party were on the
9
committee, Senator Smith, Senator Montford, Senator
10
11
Gibson.
I was just curious why you didn't offer this
12
amendment in the committee or have one of those
13
members offer it for you given the fact that you
14
obviously don't like Senator Galvano's amendment
15
that was before us right now.
16
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
17
SENATOR SOTO:
Senator Soto.
I discussed it with my Leader
18
and because I was the one who drafted the amendment
19
he felt it more appropriate that I present it on
20
the floor directly.
21
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Further questions, further
22
questions for the amendment sponsor?
23
Sobel for a question.
24
25
SENATOR SOBEL:
Yes, Senator
Thank you, Mr. President, and
thank you, Senator Galvano for your very hard work.
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So I asked Senator Galvano how many voters are
2
impacted by his plan, and my math was wrong.
3
it too quickly and I added up it was about 207,000,
4
and I had asked about voters.
5
includes the voters rather than population so that
6
is still up in the air.
7
I am not sure if he
How many voters actually are impacted by you,
8
how many Congressional Districts and how many
9
voters might be impacted by your plan?
10
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
11
SENATOR SOTO:
Senator Soto.
Thank you, Mr. President.
12
There are three districts and three counties
13
impacted.
14
that are impacted.
15
16
I did
I do not know the exact number of voters
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
sponsor?
Further questions for the
Questions for the sponsor?
17
Leader Smith.
18
LEADER SMITH:
How many as compared to the
19
Galvano plan, how many are impacted by your plan
20
and Senator Galvano's plan?
21
because if we do have special elections, which one
22
would impact those Supervisors of Elections more?
23
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
24
SENATOR SOTO:
25
I am interested
Senator Soto.
Thank you, Mr. President.
My
plan affects three districts in three counties, his
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affects, I believe, seven districts and seven
2
counties.
3
there would be seven special elections under the
4
Galvano plan and three special elections under my
5
plan.
6
So I would reasonably conclude that
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Further in questions for the
7
sponsor, further in questions?
8
go into debate on the amendment.
9
Debate on the Soto amendment.
10
be heard in debate?
11
are recognized, sir.
12
All right, we will
Who wishes to
Senator Simmons in debate, you
SENATOR SIMMONS:
Thank you, Mr. President.
13
Senator Soto, I rise in opposition to your
14
amendment for two reasons.
15
The first is that the Judge was very clear
16
about retrogression, and he specifically said that
17
there should not be any retrogression.
18
take any flexible standard that results and the
19
Constitution says, and I will just quote from his
20
own opinion, his Order and his Final Judgment on
21
page 4.
22
He did not
"The second minority protection prohibits a
23
plan or district from diminishing their ability to
24
elect representatives of their choice.
25
referred to as retrogression, this clause tracks
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Section V of the Voting Rights Act and prohibits
2
backsliding in the ability of minority groups to
3
elect candidates of their choice."
4
So on its face what I see is as you have
5
stated, a plan that significantly backslides
6
because it goes from approximately 49 percent black
7
voting age population to 43.71 percent black voting
8
age population, and to me, and I think anyone else
9
that when there is a prohibition against
10
diminution, that means just what it says, a
11
prohibition against diminution.
12
And only in I guess the Florida Legislature
13
can a, when somebody diminishes from 49 percent to
14
43 percent, can that not be a diminution?
15
believe that the amendment that you have proposed
16
is, is unconstitutional because our fair
17
amendments, contrary to the suggestions of some
18
people, does protect the access of minorities.
19
So I
Just like the NAACP spoke about at the time of
20
the Committee meeting last Friday, and the fact of
21
it is, is we are not supposed to diminish the
22
ability of, in this case, African-Americans, to
23
have access, and when I look around this Chamber I
24
see that the Voting Rights Act has done what it is
25
supposed to do.
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Not only have individuals who are
2
African-Americans or Hispanics be able to vote for
3
somebody, but, in fact, be able to be part of the
4
process here with us, and that is the reason that
5
this was done.
6
Judges to create what it is now Congressional
7
District 5, and we are prohibited from diminishing
8
the ability of those individuals, those minorities
9
to elect candidates of their choice, and yours does
10
11
This was a decision by Federal
not do that.
Secondly, we are still operating under Judge
12
Lewis' Order, and his Order says that we are
13
supposed to, in fact, thoroughly vet any kind of
14
plan that is presented to us.
15
if we don't do that, then we are subject to the
16
criticism of having this transferred intent.
17
call it the doctrine of transferred intent, that
18
the bad intent of somebody else is transferred to
19
the Legislature.
20
As a matter of fact,
I
And if anyone has any doubts about what he
21
ruled, if you turn to page 25, he says, "The
22
reality and the irony is that there would be
23
absolutely nothing wrong about the attendees at
24
those meetings submitting proposed maps or partial
25
maps.
The difference is, if done in the open, then
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those reviewing the submissions could take into
2
account the source in evaluating whether it was
3
neutral or whether it might tend to favor or
4
disfavor a political party or an incumbent.
5
the political consultants lamented that if he had
6
submitted maps in his own name he would probably
7
have come under attack, accused of trying to favor
8
his party or its incumbents.
9
submission might be closely scrutinized in the same
One of
Well, of course, his
10
way that a map proposed, a proposed map submitted
11
by the Florida Democratic Party might be taken with
12
a grain of salt.
13
is concerned about improper partisan intent
14
influencing the drawing of the map."
15
That is how it should be if one
Then he goes on and says that he thinks that
16
staff and legislative leaders would find it
17
extremely strange and that they might ask why not,
18
as to a person in a public hearing, why somebody
19
didn't appear.
20
And then he goes on and says, "And the
21
Defendants point out, all of this was open,
22
transparent and on the record.
23
sounds like a good idea, who can argue that
24
openness and transparency are not good things when
25
it comes to government.
Although that
It provided the means by
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which partisan maps secretly drawn and submitted by
2
political operatives can be incorporated into the
3
enacted map."
4
He goes on and says that, "If so, relying upon
5
publicly submitted maps may not be the best way to
6
protect against partisan influence."
7
And finally results and concludes that we are
8
supposed to thoroughly inquire.
That is the sum
9
and substance of it, that we are supposed to
10
thoroughly inquire.
11
Senator Thrasher said, we probably could have done
12
a much better job of thoroughly inquiring if at
13
least this had been presented in the Committee
14
meetings in which we could thoroughly analyze and
15
question rather than here on the floor of the
16
Senate in which we cannot do that.
17
And, of course, just as
And do I disagree with the Judge's
18
conclusions?
19
of disdain for, for the right of the public to have
20
any kind of input into our maps.
21
that our Constitution says that the people have the
22
right peaceably to assemble, to instruct their
23
representatives and to petition for redress of
24
grievances.
25
I definitely disagree with any kind
And I say to you
This was even cited in the Florida Supreme
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Court's decision on redistricting in 2012, the
2
right to instruct our representatives.
3
citizen, no matter who that citizen is, has the
4
right to be here, to petition us no matter who it
5
is.
6
occurring.
7
So every
And we don't have the right to keep that from
As a matter of fact, the United States Supreme
8
Court said that under our Constitution, anonymous
9
pamphleteering is not a pernicious fraudulent
10
practice, but an honorable tradition of efficacy
11
and a dissent, anonymity is a shield from the
12
tyranny of the majority.
13
The Supreme Court went on to say, it thus,
14
exemplifies the purpose behind the Bill of Rights
15
and the First Amendment in particular to protect
16
unpopular individuals from retaliation and their
17
ideas from suppression.
18
Members, the sum and substance of it is, is
19
that the suppression of expression inevitably leads
20
to oppression.
21
Judge, as much as I believe that his opinion and
22
his ruling is unconstitutional on its face, we are
23
here in this dilemma in which we are required to
24
thoroughly, completely vet any kind of proposal and
25
we have got a proposal here on the floor of the
So as much as I disagree with the
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Senate that cannot be adequately and appropriately
2
vetted.
We just can't.
3
Waited too late, had an opportunity at least
4
to do a good vetting of it or a decent vetting of
5
it in Committee meetings.
6
As a matter of fact, you have seen, if anyone
7
questions the obligation that this Court has placed
8
upon us to thoroughly vet a map that is submitted
9
to us, you can see the millions of dollars in legal
10
fees that have been spent and the depositions taken
11
of people just to see who actually prepared a map.
12
Those same people being constitutionally
13
protected in their ability to present a map to us,
14
but we are where we are, and that is here today
15
with a map that is given to us that we have no
16
ability to thoroughly vet, simply ask questions,
17
ask questions and then get an answer, because when
18
the Reock score is reduced the convex hull score is
19
reduced, the perimeter is inappropriately
20
increased, there can only be one other conclusion
21
that is reached, members.
22
But we can't do it here.
The conclusion that is reached is that just as
23
Senator Bradley pointed out, that the purpose of
24
this map is for political purposes, because all of
25
the standards that the courts continue to use have
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been violated here by this proposed map.
2
of all, members, most of all, the citizens of
3
Congressional District number 5 have become the
4
collateral damage, the collateral damage to a
5
political war.
6
But most
That is what it is.
That is the reason the Constitution is put in
7
place, to protect their rights.
We are bound not
8
to diminish the ability of the minorities in
9
Congressional District number 5 to elect the
10
candidates of their choice, that in and of itself
11
answers the question for us, because this amendment
12
by Senator Soto violates that requirement.
13
14
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Further in debate, debate on
the Soto amendment.
15
Further in debate, Leader Smith.
16
LEADER SMITH:
Thank you, Mr. President, and I
17
guess there are a couple of things that were said
18
that was surprising to me.
19
First, members, as we look at this and we talk
20
about the Reock score and the convex hull score,
21
those are not dispositive of whether a map is
22
constitutional or not.
23
looks at, as well as the factors that Senator Soto
24
took into consideration.
25
Those are factors the Judge
So this map, along with the map by Senator
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Galvano will be looked at, can be looked at by a
2
Judge and those are only factors, it is not
3
dispositive that is unconstitutional.
4
And second, we have had a chance to look at
5
this map.
6
went into session.
7
before we went into session.
8
weekend to look at this map, but at the same time
9
we have had to look at the Galvano map with this
10
11
This map was actually filed before we
This map was filed last week
You have had all
map.
So we have had a time to vet this map and I
12
think it is a good map and I think it still
13
complies, it complies with the Judge's Order, and I
14
think if that is the reason that we are looking to
15
vote for this map or not vote for this map.
16
don't think we have heard anything dispositive that
17
the map is unconstitutional.
18
I
We have had time to fully vet this map as we
19
have vetted, the same time we have had to vet both
20
maps.
21
districts, I think Senator Soto has done a great
22
job, he and his aid only, of putting that map
23
together after reading the Judge's decision and
24
trying to do what the Judge said to do, and I
25
appreciate him for putting the time and effort at
Look at this map, consider all of the
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2
3
4
this and I support this map.
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
in debate?
Further in debate, further
Senator Galvano.
SENATOR GALVANO:
Thank you, Mr. President,
5
and Leader Smith, you are right.
6
filed and I think I mentioned it on Wednesday, when
7
I was going through the schedule.
8
out there and there was opportunity to look at it.
9
The Soto map was
And so it was
My concern with the map is this.
We have come
10
to session based on a Joint Proclamation that asked
11
us to comply specifically with the Court Order and
12
more specifically with the concerns raised by Judge
13
Lewis with regard to CD 5 and CD 10.
14
With regard to CD 10, I think the Judge made
15
it very clear that the appendage that came up in
16
between CD 5 and CD 9 was not acceptable.
17
Unfortunately, in the Soto iteration that appendage
18
is not cured, and I would think that if we went in
19
the very first thing the Court is going to do,
20
because at the end of the day we can talk about the
21
Tier 1 considerations, but the Judge had to base
22
his Tier 1 findings, in fact, he used the word
23
inferred Tier 1 violations from Tier 2
24
manifestations, the compactness, the appendages, et
25
cetera.
So right out of the gate we have not cured
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2
the CD 10 appendage.
Then with regard to CD 5, if you look at the
3
map, the 9057 which is the underlying amendment, we
4
have increased the compactness and cured that
5
serpentine like nature that existed through and
6
against Alachua County by bringing the line
7
eastward.
8
aspect of CD 5.
9
The Soto map does not address that
And then lastly, I think Senator Simmons makes
10
some very salient points with regard to
11
retrogression.
12
number, it was a number though that existed in
13
9043, which was a map that the Court held out as a
14
model and the Plaintiffs used as a reference in
15
order to impeach 9047.
16
thumb that was used.
17
I know 48 percent is not a magic
And so that was a rule of
So, and lastly, I would say it is a tricky
18
business this, because Tier 1 considerations are
19
really about intent.
20
prohibition, it is not about effect, and the courts
21
have made it clear that without ill intent the
22
effect is not going to negate the map.
23
It is a specific intent
And so you can't draw a map based upon effect,
24
you can only look towards intent, and like the
25
Judge in this case did, as I mentioned earlier,
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found an inference for that intent through the Tier
2
2 manifestations that in the map before us under
3
Senator Soto's name has not been cured.
4
5
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Further in debate?
Senator
Soto to close on the amendment.
6
SENATOR SOTO:
Thank you, Mr. President.
7
I want to thank both you, Mr. President, and
8
Senator Thrasher and Senator Galvano for your
9
courtesy in allowing us to have a straight up
10
debate on this, and I appreciate that.
11
is not easy to do.
12
And
Map making
This amendment has some clear differences.
I
13
affect three districts, the other proposal affects
14
seven.
15
proposal affects seven.
16
the appendages.
17
I affect three counties.
The other
I deal specifically with
Sanford was required to be pulled out because
18
they, Judge Lewis said that this district was
19
boosted.
20
And so it was required for us to look at District
21
7.
22
Another way of describing it is packing.
He also said, I find that District 10 was
23
drawn to benefit the Republican Party and the
24
incumbent.
25
on the inference of the Florida Supreme Court
I reached this conclusion based in part
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suggested could be drawn from oddly shaped
2
appendages that had no legal justification.
3
was the argument that was just discussed by Senator
4
Galvano.
5
That
But he says this inference is also buttressed
6
by the general evidence and improper intent
7
outlined by my analysis of District 5 and the
8
following evidence related specifically to the
9
drawing of District 10.
10
the rest of it.
11
at that opinion.
12
I won't belabor you with
I am sure all of you have looked
But it is, he is saying that there is a
13
violation of Tier 1 with regard to favoring one
14
party and one incumbent in District 10, and so one
15
of our duties here is to fix that, and my map does
16
fix that.
17
What I also want to discuss is diminishment.
18
There are many factors that the Court will apply
19
when dealing with a diminishment of the
20
African-American's ability, in this case with
21
District 5 to elect the candidate of their choice.
22
Black voting age population is one of them.
23
have the testimony of Dr. Brunell about
24
43.6 percent and I already went through the issue
25
of the primary, with 68 percent being
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African-American and that every election has
2
favored the Democrat in District 5 because of the
3
overwhelming advantage of 55 to 20.
4
My map and Senator Galvano's map doesn't
5
change that.
So based upon that there isn't a
6
diminishment.
7
whether a numerical reduction, whether a numerical
8
reduction is in fact a diminishment.
9
true then the other map also has that same problem,
However, there was a reference to
If that is
10
because this is an African-American opportunity
11
seat just like District 9 was drawn to be a
12
Hispanic opportunity seat, and District 9 is
13
reduced numerically.
14
Now, I believe that the Judge will apply many
15
factors, not only to this map but to the other map
16
if it was considered.
17
analysis applies, then both maps would be invalid.
18
The Judge asked us to do a few specific things.
19
20
21
If the numerical reduction
My map takes care of it and I thank everybody
for the opportunity to be able to present it today.
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Thank you, Senator Soto.
22
Senator Soto, having closed on his amendment, all
23
favoring the Soto amendment say aye.
24
(Chorus of ayes.)
25
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
All opposed, say nay.
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(Chorus of nays.)
2
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
The amendment fails.
I see
3
one, two, three, four, five, I see five hands, we
4
will go to the board.
5
amendment will vote yes, the green button, all
6
opposed vote no with the red button.
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
All favoring the Soto
The Secretary will open the board and the
Senators prepare to vote.
Have all Senators voted?
voted?
Have all Senators
We will ask the Clerk to record the vote.
READING CLERK:
Twelve 12 yeas, 25 nays,
Mr. President.
THE COURT:
And so the amendment is defeated.
Please take up and read the postponed amendment.
READING CLERK:
Late filed Bar Code 642398 by
16
Senator Galvano, delete everything after the
17
enacting clause and insert amendment.
18
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Galvano, we are back
19
on your amendment.
20
there is another Soto amendment and there may be
21
another Galvano amendment.
22
23
And my understanding is that
Do you have any further comment before we go
further in the amendatory process, Senator Galvano?
24
SENATOR GALVANO:
Thank you, Mr. President.
25
No, I do not at this time.
There won't be another
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2
3
4
Galvano amendment.
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
All right, take and read the
next amendment.
READING CLERK:
Late filed Bar Code 599060 by
5
Senator Soto, delete lines 39 through 6003, 381 and
6
insert amendment.
7
8
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Soto, on the
amendment.
9
SENATOR SOTO:
10
withdraw this amendment.
11
12
13
14
15
Thank you, Mr. President.
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
withdrawn.
I
Show the amendment
Take and read the next amendment.
READING CLERK:
No further amendments,
Mr. President.
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
All right, we are now on the
16
Galvano substitute which is 642398, is that
17
correct, Mr. Reading clerk?
18
READING CLERK:
Yes, Mr. President.
19
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
All right.
Is there a
20
debate on the amendment?
21
the amendment that is pending, which is 642398.
22
there a debate?
23
24
25
Debate on the pending, on
Is
Is there a debate?
Senator Galvano, I apologize.
Senator Gibson
in debate.
SENATOR GIBSON:
I was lost, Mr. President,
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2
for a minute.
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
I apologize, let's catch up.
3
We are on, we are Amendment 642398, which is the
4
Galvano substitute.
5
Do you wish to have Senator Galvano explain
6
the essence of it, or are you caught up or how
7
would you like to proceed, ma'am?
8
9
10
11
12
SENATOR GIBSON:
I am caught up,
Mr. President.
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
All right, then you are
recognized in debate if you would like to be.
SENATOR GIBSON:
Thank you, Mr. President.
13
Certainly I want to thank you for the appointment
14
to the Committee.
15
information that we were privy to, and support the
16
map that Senator Galvano has put forward for us
17
today.
I certainly studied all of the
18
And I do that because, number one, we are here
19
because of a Judge who ordered certain districts to
20
be unconstitutional, and we as a body then have to
21
fix that.
22
And the other reason I support the map has to
23
do with the protection of the rights of many people
24
who are impacted by even a minimal change.
25
those people live in Senate District 9.
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I also support what is being put forward,
2
because it is not about the number of districts
3
that are Congressional Districts that are impacted,
4
it is about the people and the families who live in
5
those districts.
6
one district to make sure that a population of
7
people gets to choose their representative of their
8
choice, for not only themselves as voters, but for
9
entire families.
And so if we have to change even
10
A certain level of sensitivity that exists by
11
a member who represents a particular district, not
12
to say that someone else not of color couldn't, but
13
there is a certain level of sensitivity and an
14
understanding of certain issues within certain
15
communities.
16
And so I believe that we have done what we
17
were sent here or called here to do.
18
is before us or the plan that is before us
19
certainly meets the compactness level test,
20
particularly given where we started from with the
21
benchmark, which I believe was O.9 or .09 and we
22
are at a compactness Reock score now of .13, which
23
makes the district more compact.
24
25
The map that
When you look at the map it is also visually
compact to the eye.
That is the other test the
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Judge talked about in his Order, and we have done
2
that, and we have the black VAP at 48 percent,
3
which is less than the 50 percent that the Judge
4
had an issue with, but it is still within the realm
5
that those persons within particularly District 5,
6
I know we are here about more than District 5, but
7
those persons in District 5 can still potentially
8
elect the representative of their choice.
9
And let me, while I am on the percentages
10
segment, when you talk about percentages and you
11
talk about VAP or BVAP or any VAP for that matter,
12
it is not so much what that figure does just in
13
black and white, but it is also those folks who may
14
not even turn out and vote.
15
looking at 43 percent, let's say 10 or 20 percent
16
of those folks don't even bother to turn out.
17
And so when you are
That further reduces the opportunities for a
18
choice in the representative of that district.
19
so I have looked at all of the numbers, I think
20
many of my colleagues know that I do my homework, I
21
take home my notes, I draw lots of lines, I make
22
lots of points before I come to a final decision,
23
and I believe that is how many of us, I hope all of
24
us in this Chamber operate.
25
And
And so I want to thank the Chair also for his
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hard work, his availability for questions and
2
answers, the way the Committee was run, and I
3
certainly look forward to supporting this
4
amendment.
5
Thank you, Mr. President.
6
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Thank you, Senator Gibson.
7
Just so that we all understand where we are, we are
8
now on the Galvano substitute amendment, 642398.
9
We are going to take as much debate as the Senators
10
would like to take on that amendment.
11
vote on that amendment and then we will be back on
12
the main Bill.
13
Then we will
All right, further in debate on the Galvano
14
amendment.
15
Senator Galvano to close on the amendment.
16
Further in debate, further in debate.
SENATOR GALVANO:
Thank you, Mr. President.
I
17
think I have explained it, so I will waive close on
18
the substitute amendment.
19
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Senator Galvano having
20
closed on the amendment, all favoring the Galvano
21
amendment, 642398 say aye.
22
(Chorus of ayes.)
23
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
All opposed, say nay.
24
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
The amendment passes without
25
objection.
Take up and read the next amendment.
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2
3
4
5
READING CLERK:
No further amendments,
Mr. President.
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
the main Bill.
All right, we are back on
Read the Bill.
READING CLERK:
Senate Bill 2-A, a Bill to be
6
entitled an act relating to the establishment of
7
the Congressional Districts of the state.
8
9
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
before you.
All right, you have the Bill
And my understanding, Leader Smith,
10
and Leader Benacquisto, is that an agreement has
11
been made between the two Leaders to roll the third
12
reading on this Bill.
13
on third reading, and we are in debate.
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
And so consequently we are
Debate on the Bill?
I apologize, Senator
Gibson in debate.
SENATOR GIBSON:
Mr. President, I don't know
what is going on.
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
We will stop until everybody
does.
SENATOR GIBSON:
I am just not used to being
21
here in August, I don't think, but the heat has
22
gotten to me.
23
made are applicable right now.
24
Thank you, Mr. President.
25
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
All of my comments that I previously
Yes, ma'am.
Yes, ma'am.
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Further in debate on the main Bill.
2
in debate.
3
LEADER SMITH:
Leader Smith
Thank you, Mr. President.
I
4
rise in opposition for a specific reason.
5
not be cost effective and it may not be what the
6
Supervisors want, but I just fundamentally believe
7
that you shouldn't have people voting in
8
unconstitutional districts.
9
It may
Once the Judge ruled, once the Judge ruled and
10
we haven't appealed, and when I say that the
11
districts are unconstitutional, why have people
12
vote in those unconstitutional districts?
13
looking up close and I found it great when
14
sometimes inefficiency is the price we pay for
15
democracy.
16
It may not be efficient.
I was
It may not be cost
17
effective, but democracy costs, and if the
18
districts are unconstitutional we should stop the
19
voting.
20
military overseas and we have to pick new dates, we
21
have done special elections.
22
doing different stuff when it comes to elections.
23
If we have to send out more ballots to
Florida ain't new to
We can do new elections, but just the mere
24
fact that if we were doing this map because we
25
agreed or we haven't objected or haven't appealed
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that these districts are unconstitutional, how can
2
we rightly have people vote in unconstitutional
3
districts?
4
Now, I ask that question in the Committee when
5
we were vetting it and I received a huge binder and
6
I appreciate it from our legal staff, put in a lot
7
of work to give me a lot of cases saying that we
8
should do this, but not really any of these cases
9
are dispositive in Florida.
10
They are cases from all over, North Dakota,
11
South Dakota, Texas, everywhere saying you could do
12
it, you know, for convenience, but this isn't about
13
convenience.
14
is going to vote in a district they should be
15
voting for their representative.
16
someone who is not really their representative
17
until the next time there is an election there.
18
they are going to vote it should be their
19
representative.
This is about democracy.
If someone
Not voting for
If
20
So within this map, without going into all of
21
the scores and everything that Senator Simmons can
22
so eloquently talk about, I just look at the mere
23
fact that we are voting today to say, people, vote
24
in unconstitutional districts and we are just going
25
to let it ride will until the next election.
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they are unconstitutional, they are
2
unconstitutional.
3
elections and so that is why I rise against this
4
map.
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
We should have subsequent
Thank you.
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Further in debate?
Further
in debate, Sheriff Dean from the Fifth.
SENATOR DEAN:
May I direct to my colleague a
question I would like to ask about?
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Which colleague would you
like to direct this to, please?
SENATOR DEAN:
Yes, sir, going back to the
12
issue of these districts, these two districts that
13
are being unconstitutional, the record that I have
14
seen they were directed to be drawn by two Federal
15
Judges by a Special Master.
16
If that was acceptable at that time and that
17
place, and we haven't basically done anything,
18
except try to follow the lead of those districts,
19
explain why we feel that they are unconstitutional.
20
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
All right, we are in debate
21
here, but we will, in the interest of fairness we
22
have asked that we have Sheriff Dean to ask the
23
question.
24
Leader Smith, do you care to comment or
25
Senator Soto, either one, I would be happy to hear
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2
your comment?
LEADER SMITH:
Thank you, Mr. President.
I
3
always get nervous when Sheriffs ask me questions.
4
I am just basing it under the Order that we are
5
going under.
6
unconstitutional and that is why we are here today.
7
The Judge, Judge Lewis said these are
Circuit Judge, a Circuit Judge said, I looked
8
at these and they are unconstitutional,
9
Legislature, go back and vote and change the maps
10
because of the way they are currently done, they
11
are unconstitutional and that is what I am going
12
off of, the current opinion that we are working
13
under now.
14
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
All right, we are in debate.
15
We are in debate on the main Bill.
16
debate, President Margolis.
17
SENATOR MARGOLIS:
Further in
I was here, as a matter of
18
fact, I was President of the Senate when we passed
19
this, this Bill that said we were going to give
20
minorities every opportunity that they could have
21
to vote in the state of Florida.
22
opportunity.
23
Well, guess what?
Every
If I describe the people in
24
the audience and the black members of this body,
25
they were ecstatic.
It was like they found
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themselves.
2
people of this, of this state.
3
that.
4
I looked at this district I would say, oh, this
5
looks awful, it looks awful, but it made a lot of
6
people happy.
7
They feel like they are the real
I will never forget
I will never forget that, and I, every time
It made a lot of people know that they were
8
voting for somebody they knew, somebody they went
9
to church with.
They knew that it was important
10
that that happen.
And I tell you that, that
11
although it might look weird to you or some of you,
12
it has been a boom.
13
people who now vote and have their voices heard.
It has been a boom to the
14
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Thank you, Madam President.
15
Speaker Thrasher in debate.
16
SENATOR THRASHER:
Thank you, Mr. President.
17
I have to tell you, I am, obviously I am going to
18
vote for Senator Galvano's amendment and the Bill
19
that was worked on in Committee.
20
tell my good friend, the Leader, and Senator Soto,
21
I am a little confused about where you guys are to
22
be honest with you.
23
But I have to
You wrote an amendment that you think that was
24
a good amendment, obviously better than Senator
25
Galvano's and you presented it to the House, but
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you don't get somebody to present it to one of our
2
committees so it can be vetted and heard.
3
confused about that.
I am
4
And Leader, you, on the committee, and I
5
understand you voted to quote, end quote, get the
6
Bill out of committee.
7
going to get out of committee anyway, but you
8
should have, this is serious business, and you
9
should have rejected.
I got a feeling it was
If you had an objection to
10
this Bill in committee when we had the staff and we
11
had the people there to talk about these issues,
12
they should have been, they should have been
13
objected to then.
14
It is a little late now to do that.
I think
15
the reason we ought to vote for his Bill today is
16
because it has been vetted.
17
Simmons said, the Court is looking at us to make
18
sure that we have gone through a Bill that has gone
19
through all of those statistical analysis that
20
David knows, or Senator Simmons knows better than
21
probably anybody and Senator Galvano, and they all
22
work.
23
Just as Senator
They all meet the objections of what the Judge
24
said he was concerned about for those two
25
districts, and yet we are sitting here talking
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about other amendments that were offered to another
2
body, not to our own committee.
3
don't quite understand where you all are coming
4
from.
5
and our obligation I believe has been met by
6
Senator Galvano and the Committee to adjust those
7
two districts that the Court found problems with,
8
and I believe it is a plan that we all, every
9
single one of us ought to support and vote for.
10
11
12
I don't, I really
But I do understand what our obligation is,
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
in debate.
Further in debate?
Further
Senator Soto in debate.
SENATOR SOTO:
Thank you, Mr. President.
And
13
as everybody knows, the other map was available
14
since an hour before the session.
15
Committee staff and others didn't feel like they
16
had the opportunity to review it beforehand.
17
I apologize if
The, and I know Senator Galvano, that is hard
18
so I appreciate all of your efforts.
The reason
19
why I am voting against it is because if we are
20
going to apply to the map I propose that a
21
numerical reduction is, in fact, a diminishment,
22
then that would also apply to District 9 which is a
23
Congressional District of the folks that I
24
represent are in, and it splits Osceola in half and
25
so I just can't support this map as a result.
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2
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
in debate?
3
Further in debate?
Further
Senator Clemens in debate.
SENATOR CLEMENS:
Thank you, Mr. President.
I
4
am going to vote against this Bill and I am going
5
to do so because the Judge has told us that we
6
passed unconstitutional maps before.
7
come back now in my estimation personally we have
8
done the least amount possible that we can to send
9
another map back to the Judge that again in my
And we have
10
estimation doesn't meet the goals that we need to
11
meet.
12
We have talked a lot about BVAP today as is
13
that is sort of Holy Grail of minority
14
participation, but that really isn't, isn't it at
15
all.
16
allow minority participation and for the minority
17
community to elect leaders of their choice.
18
The legal standard should be and is, does it
And clearly we have gone beyond that standard,
19
and by doing so left the surrounding districts
20
unable to be able to do that in the same way.
21
think this map, while it is a good effort and a
22
nice try by Senator Galvano, I don't think it does
23
anything to change the Judge's determination that
24
the original map was drawn for political purposes,
25
because when you look at the map and you look at
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the numbers and how the Democrat versus Republican
2
numbers play out, this is going to result probably
3
in the exact same congressional makeup in terms of
4
Democrats and Republicans that we have right now.
5
So how does that deal in any way with the
6
Judge's, the Judge's decision that the original map
7
was dawn for political purposes.
8
to come back with the exact same number of
9
Republican and Democratic congressional members,
10
what we have done is, is really just, just window
11
dressing.
12
If we are going
So to me this doesn't meet the Judge's Order
13
in any way and I am sad to say that I am not going
14
to be able to support it today.
15
16
17
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
in debate?
Further in debate?
Further
Senator Thompson in debate.
SENATOR THOMPSON:
Thank you, Mr. President.
18
I will not be voting for this Bill because we are
19
at the same place now than we were before when the
20
maps were drawn to benefit a political party.
21
And we are talking about a district where
22
minorities can vote for a person of their choice, a
23
district.
24
mentality it seems to me, and we are packing
25
individuals into a district while we are bleaching
And so we still have a one is enough
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all of the districts around that particular
2
district that we are talking about.
3
And I have here comments about the NAACP and
4
their testimony, and of course, the NAACP addressed
5
the issue of having a person, having one person and
6
being concerned about having none, one versus none.
7
My concern is that, one, we should not be
8
talking about one is enough.
We should be talking
9
about what Senator Margolis mentioned and having
10
minorities given every opportunity to vote for an
11
individual of their choice.
12
that.
This map does not do
13
And I cannot be mollified, I cannot be quiet.
14
I cannot accept that we are talking about a single
15
district when the population of the state of
16
Florida, the population of the area that we are
17
talking about suggests that one is not enough, and
18
because these maps benefit a political party and
19
that is what the Judge addressed in the first
20
place, and we have not done anything to change
21
that, I will not be supporting the map.
22
Thank you, Mr. President.
23
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
24
25
in debate?
Further in debate?
Further
Senator Abruzzo in debate.
SENATOR ABRUZZO:
Thank you, Mr. President.
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1
would like to start off with my remarks, members,
2
by just saying you know I have the greatest respect
3
for the members in this Chamber, especially Chair
4
Galvano who has put in his time and worked very
5
hard on a lot of complicated issues, and there has
6
been some great debate today on both sides, legal
7
arguments, I have listened to it all.
8
9
The reason I am not going to be supporting the
Bill or the amendment today is simply for this
10
reason.
11
over when I was in the House and I will not be
12
voting today.
13
is what I want to talk about for a minute, Florida,
14
this is a state in 2000, that decided a
15
Presidential election by 537 votes.
16
next term later for President it was decided by
17
236,000 votes.
18
61,000 votes and change and President Obama just
19
won Florida by 74,000 votes.
20
I have never voted for any of the maps
And when I look at Florida and that
A few years,
Governor Scott got elected by
This is a 50/50 state.
This is a battle
21
ground state, this is the state, our state that the
22
nation looks towards where we have a congressional
23
delegation that is not anywhere near 50/50.
24
have a State House members there with 81 members to
25
39 members.
We
Quite frankly, that is completely out
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1
of order as well.
2
And here in the Senate, again I have the
3
greatest respect for the members in this Chamber,
4
but every single, every two years our fight
5
shouldn't be amongst a caucus for who is going to
6
be the Senate President, it should be between the
7
parties of who is going to be Senate President.
8
are a 50/50 state, I cannot support a map unless it
9
looks more like what Florida is.
We
10
So members, Chair Galvano, again, I really
11
appreciate your work, but out of principle until we
12
get to a place where we represent Florida and our
13
districts look like Florida, I will not be
14
supporting it.
15
Thank you, Mr. President.
16
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
17
Further in debate?
18
motion?
Thank you, Senator Abruzzo.
Further in debate on the
The main Bill?
19
Senator Thrasher, our Rules Chair moves that
20
the rules be waived to read the Bill a third time
21
by the required two-thirds.
22
adopted without objection.
23
Read the Bill.
24
READING CLERK:
25
Show the motion
Senate Bill 2-A, a Bill to be
entitled an act relating to the establishment of
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1
2
the Congressional Districts of the state.
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
The Bill is now before you.
3
It has been read a third time.
4
debate.
5
You have heard the
Senator Galvano to close on the Bill.
SENATOR GALVANO:
Thank you, Mr. President.
6
Mr. President, first of all, thank you for the
7
members appointed to the Committee.
8
work in a very short order under a very tight time
9
constraint.
We did good
And I would also like to personally
10
thank the staff, Jay and John worked tirelessly to
11
be able to put forth a product under that very
12
short time constraint.
13
Senators, I can assure you that the Committee
14
on Reapportionment, including myself, took very
15
seriously the Joint Proclamation, and by taking the
16
Joint Proclamation very seriously, that meant we
17
took very seriously the Court Order that is the
18
substance of that Joint Proclamation, and that
19
Order was very clear to us.
20
It wanted us to address two districts, CD 5
21
and CD 10.
The Court in his, in its instructive
22
Final Judgment, found that there were appendages in
23
both districts that needed to be revisited.
24
Court also decided that there was not justification
25
for moving CD 5 to a majority/minority district,
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1
and the Court felt like there was not a
2
justification for creating a Hispanic opportunity
3
district in CD 9.
4
And so that is, that is where we began, and
5
the reality is that we had to deal with Tier 2
6
characteristics in order to address the findings of
7
the Court.
8
to make a determination as the Legislature as to
9
whether or not he, Judge Lewis, could hold a
What the Court did not do was tell us
10
special election.
That was not part of the call.
11
That was not part of the Order, and the Judge
12
specifically reserved jurisdiction on that after
13
having a dissertation in his own Order in which he
14
was not confident that he could go one way or the
15
other.
16
In fact, if you read the Order it seems more
17
to the contrary that the Judge felt like it would
18
be impractical and difficult to go and have a
19
special election.
20
that there are situations and there have been
21
throughout the country times when maps that have
22
had concerns or have been adjudged invalid were
23
maintained until the next cycle.
And the Judge also recognized
24
So what we did was what every reapportionment
25
Bill requires, we put in an effective date, and we
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1
did so in such a way so that when it goes back to
2
the Judge, who reserved jurisdiction to make that
3
determination, the Judge's hands won't be tied.
4
This is not rocket science, this is not a mystery
5
here.
6
for any election, including a special election held
7
after the 2014 general election.
8
is all we can do.
9
can do.
We have a Bill that has an effective date
Beyond that, that
There is nothing beyond that we
It was not in the call, it was not in the
10
Order and it is not a basis to hang your hat on a
11
no vote today.
12
With regard to non diminution.
We understood
13
that the Court felt like it was not justified that
14
we go over 50 percent, but we had a benchmark.
15
start with a benchmark and that benchmark of BVAP
16
was 49.9.
17
process when you go forward, and that is a very
18
serious consideration.
19
State, in our Constitution it is the Tier 1
20
consideration that we have to be aware of.
21
We
So there is implicit guidance in the
It is both Federal and
And so when we drew the map we didn't have a
22
goal, we didn't set a goal.
There was no magic
23
number, we said, let's address the appendage, let's
24
look at the compactness, let's address the
25
serpentine like movement, but then we have to do a
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functional analysis, just like the Florida Supreme
2
Court told us we should do.
3
And we had to ask a series of questions that
4
the Florida Supreme Court felt were valid in
5
determining whether or not we were impacting the
6
ability of a minority population to elect a
7
candidate of its choice.
8
performed on the map that is before you for the
9
vote, and the result of that analysis was that at
10
11
And that analysis was
48.11 percent, we did not diminish.
There was reference to 48.03, again, that was
12
with regard to House Bill 9043 which we used as
13
instructive.
14
because the Plaintiffs did.
15
districts back together we had to impact other
16
districts.
17
in a vacuum, but you cannot do it in a vacuum and
18
if you are going to do a real job and if you
19
remember when I opened this morning we had
20
different paths to go and we chose the more
21
difficult path which was address the specific
22
concerns that you can read very clearly in the
23
Order, but at the same time make every effort to
24
improve the visual and mathematical Tier 2 scores
25
of the districts in question, and the districts
Why, because the Court did.
Why,
When we put these
I wish I could tell you we could do it
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1
that will be impacted.
2
And frankly, Senators, across the board, we
3
did it, in 6, 7, 9, 11 and 17.
9057, every
4
district that was impacted by the amendment or the
5
Bill before you has a better score than it did
6
under the enacted map, and that is important, and
7
that is something that the Court is going to look
8
at.
9
And the Court finally is going to really
10
specifically look at 5 and 10, and I think any one
11
of you with knowing nothing about the background,
12
can walk back here, look at the 9047 districts, and
13
then take a few steps to the right and look at the
14
9057 districts and see that there is a marked
15
improvement.
16
Clearly, with regard to performance, you
17
cannot engineer the political performance.
18
is no such thing as I will fix the performance.
19
you fix it you are violating the Constitution.
20
Tier 1 requires that there not be ill intent.
21
does not require that an outcome is one way or
22
another.
23
you are violating Tier 1 considerations.
24
25
There
If
It
When you start playing with the outcome
That is why your Committee, Mr. President, did
not do a performance analysis on any of the
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1
impacted districts.
2
on CD 5 to make sure we were complying with Federal
3
and State law.
4
product that the Committee put forward, that we are
5
about to vote on is going to be approved by the
6
Circuit Court, and I ask for you to support it.
7
Only did a functional analysis
So I am very confident that the
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Thank you, Senator Galvano.
8
Senator Galvano having closed on his Bill, the
9
Secretary will open the board and Senators prepare
10
to vote.
11
Have all Senators had the opportunity to vote?
12
Then lock the board and record the vote.
13
READING CLERK:
14
15
25 yeas, 12 nays,
Mr. President.
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
Show the Bill passes.
Thank
16
you very much, Senator Galvano and Leader Smith and
17
all of those who served on the Committee.
18
So that you will understand, members, in
19
special session a Bill will be passed as
20
immediately certified to the other chamber.
21
so, Madam Secretary, this Bill is immediately
22
certified to our partners in the House of
23
Representatives.
24
25
And
Members, it is our intent to stay in session
for a while longer for the House of Representatives
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1
to consider the Bill we have just sent them.
2
recognize that some members have commitments of a
3
personal and business and even medical in nature
4
and I would simply ask you to be, to be patient
5
with the House of Representatives as they would
6
have been patient with us had the roles been
7
reversed.
8
of time.
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
I
We simply completed our business ahead
(Whereupon, the Senate was in recess.)
SENATOR THRASHER:
Mr. President, thank you
for the last two years, here, here, absolutely.
Mr. President, I move that the Senate adjourn,
sine die.
PRESIDENT GAETZ:
We are adjourned, thank you,
Speaker.
(Whereupon, the proceedings were adjourned.)
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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1
CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4
5
I, CLARA C. ROTRUCK, do hereby certify that I
6
was authorized to and did report the foregoing
7
proceedings, and that the transcript, pages 2 through
8
108, is a true and correct record of my stenographic
9
notes.
10
11
12
Dated this 12th day of August, 2014, at
Tallahassee, Leon County, Florida.
13
14
____________________________
15
CLARA C. ROTRUCK
16
Court Reporter
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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1
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES REDISTRICTING MEETING
AUGUST 11, 2014
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
Reported by:
22
CLARA C. ROTRUCK
23
Court Reporter
24
25
FOR THE RECORD REPORTING TALLAHASSEE FLORIDA
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1
P R O C E E D I N G S
Page 1
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2
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
The House will be in
3
order.
4
members prayer will be offered today by
5
Representative Matt Hudson.
6
7
8
9
Members, please take your seats.
The
Representative Hudson, would you please
approach.
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON:
Members, would you
please bow your head in prayer?
Dear Lord, we come
10
together today to do the work of the people of the
11
great State of Florida.
12
us, we ask your blessings upon all of our family an
13
friends who care for us so greatly and give us the
14
opportunity to serve.
We ask your blessings upon
15
We ask you to watch over all of the elected
16
leaders in our state, all the elected leaders in
17
our country, and we ask you to bless them and help
18
them in their decision-making process.
19
Lord, we know that you guide all things and we
20
are very thankful for all of the blessings that we
21
have seen, both seen and unseen over the course of
22
the last week, and you know we know you will bless
23
us without question again and we may not know it
24
all of the time, but we are very thankful for it.
25
We thank you for that.
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1
Dear Lord, please grant us travel and
2
emergencies as we leave, whatever that shall be,
3
but please watch over us and watch over our
4
families and we ask this in your name.
Page 2
Exh. J at 00360
Amen.
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5
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
The Clerk will unlock
6
the machine and the members will record their
7
presence.
8
9
10
11
12
13
Have all members reported their presence?
The
Clerk will unlock the machine and ask the presence
of the quorum.
READING CLERK:
106 members voting, and a
quorum is present, Mr. Speaker.
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Members and visitors in
14
the gallery, please rise for the Pledge of
15
Allegiance to the Flag.
16
will be led today by Representative Williams from
17
his desk.
18
19
20
The Pledge of Allegiance
Representative Williams.
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS:
Mr. Speaker.
Thank you,
Members, please join in the Pledge.
I pledge allegiance to the flag for the United
21
States of America and to the Republic for which it
22
stands, one nation, under God, indivisible with
23
liberty and justice for all.
24
25
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Thank you Representative
Williams.
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4
1
2
Address to the journal, hearing none, show the
journal approved.
3
For the matters on introduction in reference.
4
READING CLERK:
5
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
6
7
On the desk, Mr. Speaker.
Read HR 3-A the first
item and show the further the count.
READING CLERK: By Representative and
Page 3
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8
President Moskowitz, House Resolution 3-A.
9
resolution expressing support for the state of
10
Israel.
11
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
12
READING CLERK:
13
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
14
Any communications?
None on the desk, Mr. Speaker.
Are there messages from
the Senate?
15
READING CLERK:
16
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
17
A
None on the desk, Mr. speaker.
Are there reports of
standing committees and subcommittees?
18
READING CLERK:
On the desk, Mr. Speaker.
19
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
20
READING CLERK:
Read the report.
To the Honorable Will
21
Weatherford, Speaker of the House of
22
Representatives.
23
counter committee herewith submits a special order
24
for Monday, August 11, 2014.
25
House Bills on special orders shall include the
Dear Mr. Speakers, your rules and
Consideration of the
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5
1
Senate companion measures on the House counter.
2
Read the report, Mr. Speaker.
3
4
5
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Shane,
you are recognized on the report.
REPRESENTATIVE SHANE:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
6
The report sets a Special Order calendar and I move
7
the adoption of the Special Order Report for today,
8
Monday, August the 11th, 2014.
9
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
10
Are there questions?
Are there objections? All in favor signify by
Page 4
Exh. J at 00362
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11
saying yea.
12
(Chorus of yeas.)
13
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Opposed no.
14
Special Order Report adopted.
15
reports?
16
READING CLERK:
17
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
18
Show the
Are there other
None on the desk, Mr. Speaker?
Are there reports on
select committees?
19
READING CLERK:
None on the desk, Mr. Speaker.
20
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Are there motions
21
relating to pending and subcommittee references?
22
Are there matters on reconsideration?
23
opposing resolutions on third reading?
24
READING CLERK:
25
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Are there
None on the desk, Mr. Speaker.
Okay, members, welcome
FOR THE RECORD REPORTING TALLAHASSEE FLORIDA
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6
1
back.
2
Order and potentially be rolled in third reading he
3
if it is the will of this body.
4
to accommodate members who are delayed due to
5
weather, and to ensure that the Senate has made the
6
necessary technical fixes to the Bill we are going
7
to be in recess at some point and wait for the
8
Senate Bill to come over to the House before we
9
take up the actual Senate Bill.
10
11
We are going to take up our Bill on Special
But in an effort
With that, are there other Special Order
calendar?
12
READING CLERK:
On the desk, Mr. Speaker.
13
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Page 5
Read the first Bill.
Exh. J at 00363
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LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
14
READING CLERK:
By the Select Committee on
15
Redistricting and Representative Corcoran, House
16
Bill 1-A, a bill to be entitled, An Act
17
Establishing the Congressional Districts of the
18
State.
19
20
21
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Corcoran,
you are recognized to explain the Bill.
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
22
Before I get into the explanation, earlier this
23
week due to the Court's opinion we had sent out a
24
memo that said anyone who had a plan had to comply
25
with a certain level of criteria so that you knew
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7
1
2
exactly where it came from and who was involved.
So I am going to go through that memo that I
3
had sent out as the adding committee to just let
4
you guys no the background and what we used.
5
The identity in every person involved in
6
drawing, reviewing, directing or approving a
7
proposal for the House, it was myself, the General
8
Counsel for the House, outside General Counsel for
9
the House and the committee staff, Jason Preda and
10
11
Jeff Tackett and Jeff Silver.
In the Senate it was also that same
12
counterparts, Attorney Galvano, their Senate
13
counsel, their Senate outside counsel and their
14
Senate staff, John Guthrie and Jay Ferring.
15
16
The criteria that we used for the map we
relied on counsel's advice regarding the Court's
Page 6
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17
ruling.
18
counsel to craft the most effective remedy.
19
crafted that remedy and evaluated, made every
20
effort to improve the metrics of the district
21
affected, entering districting process and relied
22
on staff and counsel to ensure the new District 5
23
did not diminish as compared to the benchmark plan.
24
Fourth, we did not tolerate any political
25
We relied on staff in conjunction with
influences.
We
The map was drawn last Wednesday here
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1
at the Capitol by a small group including Chair
2
Galvano and myself and those I listed.
3
Section 20 of the Florida Constitution, the
4
Fair Districts Amendment and the Federal Voting
5
Rights Acts were also complied with.
6
The sources we used were My District Builder.
7
It was the same My District Builder that existed in
8
2010, for the redistricting process.
9
addition as we discussed in committee was the 2012,
10
election data was added in and that was used in the
11
functional analysis as required by law for
12
Congressional District 5.
13
The only
The nature of the functional analysis that we
14
did, we conducted it under Congressional District 5
15
as is required and we relied on staff and counsel
16
to ensure that the new District 5 did not diminish
17
as compared to the benchmark plan and the analysis
18
we shared in detail on our committee meeting on
19
Friday, and it is also on the Bill analysis.
Page 7
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20
How the proposal satisfies the constitutional
21
statutory criteria, Congressional District 5
22
maintains the minority community's ability to elect
23
a candidate of choice.
24
before you is 48.11, complying with the Tier 1
25
standard of non diminishment.
The BVAP in that plan
Divisional and
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1
mathematical compactness scores for all of the
2
affected districts were either remained at a
3
similar level of the benchmark map, but in most
4
cases saw a significant improvement, and they also
5
better quality existing geographic boundaries.
6
The general overviews outside of that for the
7
maps before you, it keeps Congressional District,
8
it keeps 20 Congressional Districts unchanged.
9
Bill completely eliminates District 5's incursion
The
10
into Seminole County and the appendage in District
11
10.
12
mathematical compactness of District 5.
13
score improves from .09 to .13 and its convex hull
14
score improves from .29 to .42.
15
decreased by 124 miles.
16
It dramatically improves visual and
Its Reock
Its perimeter is
It improves the visual mathematical
17
compactness of District 6, 7, 9 and 10 and
18
maintains Districts 11 and 17 compactness levels
19
with those that existed in the enacted map.
20
out of the seven impacted districts improved on
21
both compactness scores and the other three
22
impacted districts improve on one of the
Page 8
Exh. J at 00366
Four
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LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
23
compactness scores over the map, the enacted map,
24
9047.
25
District 5 goes from a BVAP of 49.9 and a
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1
benchmark to 48.11, without lessening the ability
2
of African-Americans to select a candidate of their
3
choice.
4
at 21 and does all of this and only splits one
5
additional city compared to the enacted map.
It maintains the number of counties split
6
And that is the Bill before you, Mr. Speaker.
7
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
8
Corcoran.
9
questions?
10
11
Thank you, Chair
Other questions of the sponsor?
Other
Representative Thurston, you are
recognized for.
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
Thank you,
12
Mr. Speaker.
Representative Corcoran, was there
13
ever an opportunity or an invitation to anyone
14
within our caucus to participate in the preparing
15
of this map?
16
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
17
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
Throughout the committee
18
process you had all of the rights of any member in
19
a committee process to participate in that way.
20
far as specifically to Wednesday drawing, that was
21
just done by Chair Galvano and myself and those I
22
mentioned.
23
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
24
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
25
Mr. Speaker.
For a follow up?
Thank you,
In light of the Judge's ruling in
Page 9
Exh. J at 00367
As
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LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
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1
terms of transparency and the other operatives who
2
on the Republican side who have been involved in
3
the process, do you think that it would have been
4
wise for all of us to participate?
5
I know the staff and all and worked for the
6
entire House, for us to have some input in the
7
drawing of these maps?
8
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
9
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
I believe, Leader
10
Thurston, that everyone had that opportunity to
11
participate, whether through question, whether
12
through the amendatory process, whether here today
13
on the floor.
14
participating in that in detail.
15
You are fully capable of
It was a little bit different on two levels,
16
different on one level, but similar in another.
17
And that one, this is the Legislature, the body of
18
the Legislature, we are replying to a Court Order.
19
It was very specific.
20
deliberately given by the Judge.
21
thought best that Chair Galvano and I get together
22
first and start looking at what could be done.
23
It was very tightly and
It is similar in this sense.
And so it is
When you have an
24
idea of a Bill that you want to do or you have a
25
Senate counterpart, you guys get together and work
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1
out and discuss what that Bill is like and you file
2
it in the House and they file it in the Senate, and
3
then every member in this entire body has the
4
ability to amend it, change it, discuss it or
5
debate it through the committee process, and that
6
was unchanged.
7
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
8
Further questions?
9
question.
10
Further questions?
Representative Rouson for a
REPRESENTATIVE ROUSON:
Thank you very much,
11
Mr. Speaker.
Representative, you indicated in your
12
introductory remarks that this map maintains the
13
minority community ability to elect a candidate of
14
their choice.
15
how that happens?
Can you expound on that in terms of
16
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
17
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
Yes, it, basically it is a
18
longer answer, Representative Rouson.
19
short and then if you have follow ups I will be
20
glad to answer it.
21
I will start
But in essence, both in our goal and in our
22
State Constitution and the Voter Rights Act we have
23
to comply with, in essence, Section II of the
24
delusion standard and Section V of the diminishment
25
standard of the Constitution and the Florida Voter,
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1
2
the Federal Voting Rights Act.
So in that context you look at the benchmark
Page 11
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The benchmark plan in essence, is that
3
plan.
4
congressional, for any district, in this situation,
5
Congressional District 5.
6
population census and you look at those criteria
7
and it is a multitude of criteria.
8
in looking at the BVAP in that benchmark plan it
9
was 49.9.
10
You put in the 2010
We specifically
In our map that we have before you, it is
11
48.11.
In the ruling by the Judge, he had ruled
12
that 48.03 which was an initial House map of 9043
13
did comply with the standard, the Tier 1 standards
14
in the Constitution.
15
have complied, at 48.11 it is more than the Court
16
has already said was acceptable and it is a -- it
17
does not -- it is in the same range as the
18
benchmark plan.
And so when I say that we
19
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
20
REPRESENTATIVE ROUSON:
Thank you very much,
21
Mr. Speaker.
During the process where you
22
indicated where you and Senator Galvano worked with
23
staff, both House and Senate, to draw this map,
24
were any outside experts pulled in that gave input
25
during that time period?
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1
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
2
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
No, Representative, the
3
list I gave you was 100 percent of the people to
4
the best of my recollection that were in that room.
5
We are in transition in the House between our
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6
LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
current inside House counsel leaving and a new one
7
coming on.
8
counsel was in the room, too, but other than that
9
everyone I listed was who was in the room.
So at different points the new inside
10
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Rouson.
11
REPRESENTATIVE ROUSON:
Thank you very much,
12
Mr. Speaker.
Folks are probably wondering because
13
of some of the language that Judge Lewis used.
14
were any political parties, Republican, Democrat,
15
Independent or any political parties involved in
16
that part of the process of drawing the map?
17
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
18
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
But
Representative Corcoran.
No, Representative, I
19
appreciate your concerns, but again I gave you
20
exactly who was involved.
21
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
22
REPRESENTATIVE SAUNDERS:
Representative Saunders.
Thank you very much,
23
Mr. Speaker, thank you for that explanation, chair
24
Corcoran.
25
right when you shared it earlier.
I want to make sure that I heard this
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1
The black voting age population in House
2
District 5 before this map was introduced was 49.9
3
percent, is that correct?
4
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
5
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
6
Representative Corcoran.
Yes, in the benchmark
plan, that is correct.
7
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
8
REPRESENTATIVE SAUNDERS:
Page 13
Exh. J at 00371
Thank you,
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9
LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
Mr. Speaker. And I believe what else I heard you
10
say is this shifts HD 5, the Congressional District
11
5 to 48.11.
12
Representative Corcoran, I am interested in
13
the Hispanic voting age populations in some of the
14
districts that have been shifted around here.
15
you know what the Hispanic voting age population is
16
currently for HD 5, for Congressional District 5
17
and what it will become in this new map if it is
18
passed today?
19
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
20
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
21
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
22
REPRESENTATIVE SAUNDERS:
Do
Representative Corcoran.
10.29.
Representative Saunders.
I am going to assume
23
that is what it would be in this map, 10.29 is for
24
the map if we passed it today, is that correct?
25
Okay.
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1
I noticed that there are some fairly
2
substantive changes to a few other districts, and
3
the one I am focused on next is Congressional
4
District 9 which for the members on the floor is a
5
Congressional District that currently covers almost
6
all of Osceola County.
7
County, it actually covers part of my district, and
8
it is a seat that has a very high population of
9
Hispanic voting age voters.
10
11
It scoops up into Orange
Can you share, Representative Corcoran, what
the current exact Hispanic voting age population is
Page 14
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12
LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
for Congressional District 9 and what it would be
13
if your map were to pass today?
14
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
15
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
Well, I will separate what
16
you are asking.
First of all, there is only one
17
map that is covered by Tier 1 standards, one
18
district covered by Tier 1 standards in the -- in
19
our Florida Constitution or the Voter Rights Act.
20
None of the other six districts are affected.
21
So looking, so there is no benchmark for
22
District 9, but now moving to the map that was
23
invalidated, I believe the Hispanic population was
24
about 42 percent and we go down to 38.37.
25
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Saunders.
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1
REPRESENTATIVE SAUNDERS:
Thank you,
2
Mr. Speaker, and thank you about that explanation
3
about the Tier 1 standard.
4
that I have concerns about whether or not we meet a
5
diminishment standard or not, diminishing the
6
ability of Hispanics in Congressional District 9 to
7
represent, to choose a candidate of their choice.
8
9
I can share with you
And so my question for you is, by shifting
Congressional District 9 around and shifting some
10
Hispanic voters out of that district, is it your
11
opinion that this map would diminish the ability of
12
Hispanics in central Florida to elect a candidate
13
of their choice?
14
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Chair Corcoran.
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15
LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN: The diminishment standard
16
only applies to those districts covered by Tier 1
17
of the Voter Rights Act.
18
covered.
District 9 is not
19
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
20
REPRESENTATIVE SAUNDERS:
Thank you,
21
Mr. Speaker.
I agree with that assessment that
22
that standard would not apply to Congressional
23
district 9, but moving out of legalese, do you
24
think it is fair to say that if there were less
25
Hispanic Congressional District 9 it is less likely
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1
that Hispanic voters could select a candidate of
2
choice which would represent their community?
3
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
4
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
The problem, I am a
5
lawyer, this is why we all have a bad reputation,
6
but I can't take the word, when you are using
7
Voting Rights Act and Tier 1 standards, terms of
8
art in your question, since it is not a Tier 1 or a
9
Voter Rights Act protected district, the language
10
that you are using is specific to the Voter Rights
11
Act and Tier 1.
12
agree to that.
So the answer is no, I cannot
13
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
14
REPRESENTATIVE SAUNDERS:
Thank you, Chair.
15
will try to rephrase the question to move as far
16
away from those words as possible.
17
Do you think that if a district has less
Page 16
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18
LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
Hispanic voters in it they are less likely to elect
19
a Hispanic candidate?
20
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
21
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Chair Corcoran.
I think we are just going
22
to go back and forth, but it is not an issue in
23
this case at all or what we have put forth before
24
you.
25
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Further questions?
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1
2
Representative Slosberg for a question.
REPRESENTATIVE SLOSBERG:
3
Mr. Speaker.
4
drew this map?
Thank you,
Representative Corcoran, who exactly
5
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
6
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
That was the -- the
7
initial criteria that I went through and gave you.
8
I mean, basically, it was Senator Galvano, their
9
Senate technical staff, our House technical staff,
10
myself, house inside counsel for both bodies and
11
house outside counsel for both bodies, and that was
12
the list.
13
I added for Representative Rouson's question,
14
that we also had the incoming counsel for the House
15
was in the meetings at different points in time.
16
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
17
REPRESENTATIVE SLOSBERG:
18
involved in drawing this map?
19
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
20
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
For a follow up.
Were any Democrats
Representative Corcoran.
Leader Thurston asked that
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21
LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
question, too, and I answered that.
22
through the committee process and every member in
23
this body, Republican or Democrat, was able to
24
participate through the committee process, whether
25
it be questions or amendatory process and also here
But it went
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1
on the floor and that remains unchanged.
2
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
3
REPRESENTATIVE SLOSBERG:
Well, let me make
4
myself a little clearer.
5
specifically you were involved and Galvano was
6
involved.
7
you know, yourself as a member of this political
8
body specifically drawing the map, were any
9
Democrats and, if so, the names of the Democrats
10
I think that you said
And so I guess what, since you named,
who were involved in drawing the map?
11
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
12
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
And again, Representative,
13
to Leader Thurston's question, this is a little bit
14
unique in the fact that we are following a Court
15
Order.
16
we move forward and get it done in the manner that
17
we did.
18
So Senator Galvano thought it was best that
But secondly, it is absolutely similar to
19
every Bill.
20
Representative Slosberg, you don't send to my
21
office and ask for my input prior to you getting
22
with your Senate sponsor and both of you filing it.
23
Every Bill that you file,
Once it is filed and it goes through the
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24
LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
committee process, then like any other member, I
25
have the right to amend it, ask questions, et
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1
cetera.
2
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
3
REPRESENTATIVE SLOSBERG:
I just asked you for
4
a yes or no answer.
The question is, again, were
5
any Democrats specifically involved in drawing this
6
map, physically drawing the map, and it is either a
7
yes or a no, and who were they?
8
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
9
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
Specifically the answer to
10
your question is, every Democrat that was on the
11
committee, any Democrat that wanted to participate
12
through asking questions through the members of the
13
committee.
14
today had full opportunity to participate in the
15
drawing of the map that is before you today through
16
the amendatory process, through questions.
17
Any Democrat that is in the Chamber
Now, was it initially Senator Galvano and
18
myself and those people I outlined, yes, and that
19
is no different than how every single member in
20
this Chamber, Republican or Democrat, files their
21
Bills.
22
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
23
REPRESENTATIVE SLOSBERG:
So I assume the
24
answer is no because, you know, I don't know, this
25
is like a minutia.
I just asked for a yes or no
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22
1
answer, and like you won't give me a yes or no
2
answer.
3
So I will go on to the next question.
What were the names of the staff members and
4
the attorneys, what are their names specifically
5
who were involved in drawing the map?
6
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
7
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
Just going backwards,
8
Representative Slosberg, because I would never want
9
you to think I didn't answer your question.
The
10
answer to your question is, yes, every Democrat had
11
an opportunity to fully participate in the process.
12
And no, and no, the initial drawing of the map was
13
done by Senator Galvano and I as every member does
14
their Bills.
15
Now, to your specific question, I might get, I
16
will do my best with names.
17
Counsel is Daniel Broby.
18
is Matt, Matt Carson, myself.
19
named the staff initially in the outline, Jason
20
Preda, Jeff Tackett and Jeff Silver for the House
21
technical staff, outside counsel was George Meros
22
and Andy Bardos.
23
The House General
The new General Counsel
Were you here when I
For the Senate it was Senator Galvano, their
24
technical staff, which was John Guthrie and Jay
25
Ferring.
Their outside counsel, their inside
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1
counsel is George Levesque, their outside counsel
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2
was Justice Cantero.
I think that is everybody.
3
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Slosberg.
4
REPRESENTATIVE SLOSBERG:
Representative
5
Corcoran, could you have possibly drawn this map by
6
yourself?
7
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
8
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
9
You are recognized.
Sure, but we had a
deadline on Friday at noon by Judge, the Judge's
10
Order and I am not sure maybe I would have gotten
11
to that deadline, but yes.
12
have had people in the public, we have had
13
teenagers who have submitted plans and used My
14
District Builder and built a map.
I mean, anybody, we
15
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
16
REPRESENTATIVE SLOSBERG:
17
For a follow up.
In other words, you
needed a whole team to do this, correct?
18
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
19
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
I, looking at the Judge's
20
Order, looking at the deadline I thought as
21
Chairman of the committee that the most expedited
22
way to get a map before the members so that they
23
could have input was the best course of action for
24
the institution and the House of Representatives.
25
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
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1
REPRESENTATIVE SLOSBERG:
So let's assume that
2
the Senate map comes over here, and let's assume
3
that I wanted to file an amendment to the Senate
4
map.
Will I have all of those lawyers and all of
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5
the staff people at my disposal to draw an
6
amendment to the map?
7
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
8
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
9
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Chair Corcoran.
Yes.
It sounds like you got
10
some work to do, Representative Slosberg.
11
questions?
12
Bracy for a question.
13
Further questions.
REPRESENTATIVE BRACY:
Further
Representative
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
14
Chair Corcoran.
The Judge was clear that a
15
north/south configuration of CD 5 was not ideal.
16
Why did you and your team continue to go with this
17
north/south configuration when that was not what
18
the Judge said he felt was best in his opinion?
19
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
20
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
21
all due respect, I disagree.
22
Judge said that at any point in time.
Representative Bracy, with
23
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
24
REPRESENTATIVE BRACY:
25
Representative Corcoran.
I don't think the
For a follow up.
Okay.
As you have CD 5
currently, I believe it cuts through about seven
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1
different counties.
2
it keeps more counties whole.
3
In the east/west configuration
Considering the criteria to keep counties and
4
municipalities whole when possible, why did you
5
choose to go with the configuration that you drew
6
up?
7
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD: Representative Corcoran.
Page 22
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LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
8
REPRESENTATIVE BRACY:
The configuration that
9
we drew up, we looked at the Judge's Order and we
10
wanted to keep it as narrow as possible, and when
11
you look at the Judge's Order the Judge did not
12
have issue with what you are -- the issues you are
13
describing.
14
The Judge had issue with the compactness and
15
in part, the intent.
16
special session included in the call the focus was
17
to comply with the Judge's Order.
18
the compactness of 5.
19
inferred intent from, which was the appendage that
20
went into Seminole County, and only those districts
21
necessary that surrounded it.
22
And so when we convened for a
We had to fix
We had to address what he
He even went to great lengths to say that to
23
do anything more than that would be as the Supreme
24
Court said in apportionment one, would be, I can't
25
say their exact language, but would be a gross
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1
waste of time, and only, and only encourage more
2
litigation.
3
And I am exaggerating in their words, I can
4
get the exact words for you.
5
you.
6
Bracy.
7
I will read it for
I might need glasses, sorry Representative
"That does not mean, however, that portions of
8
the map not affected by those individual districts
9
found to be improperly drawn would need to be
10
changed in a redrawn map. Even if the general
Page 23
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LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
11
intent to favor or disfavor a political party or
12
incumbents was proven, what would be the point if
13
the other districts are otherwise in compliance.
14
Such a remedy would go for beyond correcting the
15
effect of such non-compliance but rather would
16
require a useless act that would encourage
17
continued litigation.
18
exaggerated too much there, Representative Waldman.
I don't think I over
19
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Follow up.
20
REPRESENTATIVE BRACY:
Thank you, thank you,
21
Mr. Speaker.
So I know that you didn't want an
22
east/west configuration.
23
it the two a little with the BVAP scores.
24
east/west configuration that the House counsel
25
presented in his presentation last week, there was
So I just want to compare
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So in an
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1
a 45 percent BVAP, and your current proposal I
2
believe is a 48 percent BVAP.
3
Why is -- could you prove why the 45 percent
4
BVAP is considered a diminishment and 48 percent
5
isn't?
6
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
7
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
I will go down that, I
8
would go down that line of questions with you, but
9
here is the reality.
You are asking me, now you
10
are asking me questions about a map that hasn't
11
even been offered as an amendment to which I am not
12
a sponsor of.
13
I will answer questions related to the map
Page 24
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LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
14
that I put forth and not in some comparison to a
15
map that is not before this body.
16
that is the put before you, our BVAP is 48.11.
17
BVAP in the benchmark which is required to be
18
compared to, was 49.9.
19
this case had said that a BVAP of 48.03 was not
20
diminishment.
21
this Judge in his Order has already said is not
22
diminishment.
23
24
But to the map
The
And the Judge's opinion in
So we are well, we are above what
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Further questions?
Representative Zimmermann for a question.
25
REPRESENTATIVE ZIMMERMANN:
Thank you,
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1
Mr. Speaker.
Representative, during the drawing of
2
these maps did you or anybody else know what the
3
political registration was in these different
4
districts?
5
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
6
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
No, the only time that
7
political data was taken into consideration as
8
required by law was to do the functional analysis
9
in Congressional District 5.
10
That was the only
time.
11
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Follow up.
12
REPRESENTATIVE ZIMMERMANN:
Thank you,
13
Mr. Speaker.
14
the party registration break down now for the
15
proposed districts?
16
So do you know the political break,
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD: Representative Corcoran.
Page 25
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17
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
From the point that I got
18
to Tallahassee until now I have not looked at any
19
of that data beyond Congressional District 5.
20
did read some newspaper articles that talked about
21
some things, but I have not looked at any of the
22
data.
23
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
I
Further questions?
24
Representative Clarke-Reed for a question.
25
Representative Clarke-Reed for a question.
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1
about we try Representative Clarke-Reed from
2
Representative Betty Reed's desk.
3
REPRESENTATIVE CLARKE-REED:
Thank you,
4
Mr. Speaker.
Representative Corcoran, is every
5
member of this Legislature expected to vote on this
6
map?
7
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
8
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
9
Representative Corcoran.
If you, I think if I -- I
don't have the House rules before me,
10
representative Clarke-Reed, but if you were on the
11
floor and at your desk you are supposed to vote on
12
this map.
13
14
15
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative
Clarke-Reed for a follow up.
REPRESENTATIVE CLARKE-REED:
And
16
Representative Corcoran, if every member of this
17
Legislature is at his or her desk and expected to
18
vote on this map, should every member of this
19
legislative body been able to ask a question in the
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LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
20
committees?
21
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
22
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
You know, Representative
23
Clarke-Reed, I am a purist, and I think that the
24
historical way that we have gotten to the way we
25
run our committees, the way we run the floor, it is
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1
done for many reasons.
2
learned when I was in the minority party as a
3
staffer, that the rules existed to protect the
4
minority.
5
rules.
6
The rules, I have always
It is one of the primary purposes of the
The committee process in allowing those people
7
to have that opportunity.
And so nowhere for the
8
sake of organization would it make sense for 120
9
members to sit on every committee.
We would never
10
to be able to get anything done.
11
particular process what I have always said, in
12
fact, I joke about it about myself and you have
13
been on my committees, Representative Clarke-Reed,
14
whether it is the P-Pocket committee or the
15
healthcare committee, I leave the House as a
16
Chairman.
17
a bad thing, but I lead the House as a Chairman and
18
asking the Speaker for extensions in my committee
19
because of the quantity of time I give members to
20
answer questions and the quantity of time I give
21
the public to present.
22
So in this
I don't know if this is a good thing or
And so when you are looking at this committee
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23
process, I made it clear to the Leader, I made it
24
clear to Representative Waldman, that every single
25
member would have full opportunity to ask any
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1
questions that they wanted, but they were going to
2
do it through our rules and the committee process.
3
So when we had the Joint Committee with Chair
4
Galvano, and it looked like we were going to finish
5
early, even though we had scheduled a six-hour
6
meeting, I went back to Leader Thurston, I said has
7
everyone gotten their questions answered?
8
to make sure that that is not at issue, and Leader
9
Thurston said many members had come to him and
I wanted
10
those questions were being asked through members on
11
the committee.
12
committee that we had here in the House.
13
And the same thing applied to the
So every single member, nobody has come to me
14
and said they did not have an opportunity to get
15
their question answered or asked.
16
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
17
REPRESENTATIVE CLARKE-REED:
Was it not
18
possible that because we ended early and you saw
19
the time, we were not using the full time, and when
20
Senator Galvano asked were there anymore questions,
21
that at that time a member should not have --
22
should have been given the opportunity to ask a
23
question?
24
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Corcoran.
25
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN: I think that Chair
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1
Galvano, like myself, is a purist who believes in
2
that structure, and the question was being asked
3
even after I had asked the Leaders, is there anyone
4
else had another question, then one did come, but
5
it was from a non member of the committee, and as
6
soon as that committee was over I went straight to
7
that member because it was a House member and said,
8
what was your question, I will answer it for you
9
right now and I did answer their question.
10
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
11
REPRESENTATIVE CLARKE-REED:
Representative
12
Cochran, I attended 26 hearings, and out of those
13
26 hearings what has changed on this map and what
14
has changed with the structure of the people who
15
were involved in drawing the map that was enacted
16
before?
17
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
18
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
If I understand your
19
question correctly, Representative Clark-Reed, and
20
obviously I would say applaud all those members who
21
participate education in the 26 public hearings,
22
participated in the congressional drawing of the
23
map, participated on the floor in negotiations with
24
the Senate, the reality is the Judge clearly said
25
that 25 of our 27 districts were validated.
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1
So obviously we, you know, it was a well done
2
process.
3
and I will find that part for you if you would like
4
me to read it, but praised specifically by name
5
Jason Preda, who else was it, oh, John Guthrie and
6
Alex Kelly who is no longer here, who was the
7
overall staff.
8
their bosses who were directing them as keeping
9
them insulated from this political thing that went
10
on around them, and praised them for putting forth
11
their earnestness, their honesty and their clear
12
testimony that they were -- their discipline to
13
comply with the law.
14
The other thing the Judge did was praise,
He praised them and he also praised
So all that being said, where we are with the
15
Judge's Order is all of that input for the 26
16
meetings is still in this map.
17
all of those questions, 20 of the 27 districts are
18
unchanged from a map that -- from districts that
19
were viewed as valid by the Court.
20
is still in the underlying foundation of the map
21
before you.
All of the debate,
22
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
23
REPRESENTATIVE CLARKE-REED:
So all of that
For a follow up.
Thank you,
24
Mr. Speaker.
So those persons were involved with
25
the drawing of these same two districts that we are
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1
here discussing today.
Those persons that you have
2
just named, they were still involved in drawing
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3
LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
these other two districts, redrawing of these
4
districts?
5
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
6
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Chair Corcoran.
Yes, and I would say this,
7
Representative Clark-Reed, when you have a Judge
8
that singles out people by name and praises them
9
for following the law and doing an honorable job, I
10
think it is -- it is a, something this entire body
11
should recognize was a -- was a great piece of
12
recognition for the hard working staff that we have
13
and how well they comply with all of the
14
requirements, whether it be by law or de quorum.
15
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
16
REPRESENTATIVE CLARKE-REED:
Representative
17
Cochran, my question to you again, are those
18
persons involved in drawing these two new
19
districts?
20
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
21
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
Yes, and what I am saying
22
they are, and I am saying proudly, I am glad they
23
are.
24
25
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Further questions?
Further questions?
Representative Edwards for a
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1
2
3
question.
REPRESENTATIVE EDWARDS:
Mr. Speaker.
Thank you,
How is mom and baby doing?
4
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
5
REPRESENTATIVE EDWARDS:
Good?
Three weeks out.
Page 31
Exh. J at 00389
Good deal.
Chairman
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6
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Corcoran, I think I am saying your last name
7
correctly, right?
8
today during a special session, and I recognize
9
that the Judge has praised the staff who helped in
We are back here on the floor
10
earlier efforts to get us to the maps that the
11
Court has said don't comply with the Fair Districts
12
Amendment.
13
But I want to get a sense of trust, so when I
14
go back home to my constituents I can tell them
15
that the taxpayer dollars we are spending here
16
today were in good effort.
17
I want to direct us to page 23 if it is okay
18
with you, Chair Corcoran, of the Final Judgment and
19
I want to ask you about the destruction of record.
20
While I recognize that the Judge says that we are
21
under no legal duty on our part to keep those
22
records, I want to ask you, Chair Corcoran, what we
23
are doing this time around to make sure that all of
24
the things that went into crafting what you would
25
like for us to vote on have not been destroyed or
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1
altered in any way?
2
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
3
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Chair Corcoran.
I would have to go back
4
and look and that is a great question,
5
Representative, but I am pretty sure I either did
6
it in a memo or we sent it out through the
7
Speaker's office under my name.
8
committee members, myself included, because of that
Page 32
Exh. J at 00390
I told all the
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9
10
LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
page that you pointed out, not to destroy any
records.
11
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
12
REPRESENTATIVE EDWARDS:
Thank you,
13
Mr. Speaker.
14
e-mail, but I believe it was an as aspirational
15
goal, if you will, that there is no legal duty,
16
there is nothing in statute short of the Sunshine
17
Law, I don't think the Sunshine Law has changed
18
significantly since 2012, when that map was
19
initially voted on.
20
And I recognize and I appreciate your
So what sense of trust do I have that
21
something has gone completely different than what
22
happened in 2012, because clearly the Final Order
23
finds that records were destroyed?
24
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
25
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
And just clarifying the
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1
last point.
2
destroyed, but it was completely within the course
3
of business.
4
in the regular course of business for all of those
5
members, all staff, in addition to conversations
6
that should not be had with different entities in
7
the memo, was it retain those records.
8
as I know everyone has done that, myself included.
9
10
11
He recognized that records were
So in this situation what we said was
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
REPRESENTATIVE EDWARDS:
Mr. Speaker.
And as far
Thank you,
Earlier when I believe Representative
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12
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Slosberg, that is how you say your last name,
13
right, Slosberg, we are having some confusion
14
today.
15
Bill just like any other Bill that is filed during
16
any other session, would you agree that we are in a
17
special session to address something that is
18
probably a bit more consequential than any other
19
Bill that we have filed?
20
When we were talking about this being a
So I would ask you with the concerns that we
21
have raised, in hindsight would it have made sense
22
to involve perhaps the Minority Leader or some
23
Democrats in a meeting with you and Galvano to
24
craft the Bill that you would bring back to the
25
committee?
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1
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
2
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
I agree with you that this
3
is a special session and that anything about a
4
special session is the only things that can be
5
discussed.
6
those things that are within the call, and it is
7
one Bill, and now we have added I think a
8
resolution, but maybe two Bills that are within
9
that call.
10
The only committees that can be had are
And so you do have an opportunity with every
11
single member even if they are not on the committee
12
can go and listen and participate.
13
this situation.
14
being this focused, and it is because it is a
You do have
I don't remember a second reading
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15
LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
special session we are dealing with one specific
16
issue.
17
To your point, your question directly, I think
18
I have answered that, Representative Edwards, and I
19
am very satisfied with the process that we, that we
20
went through.
21
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
22
REPRESENTATIVE EDWARDS:
Thank you,
23
Mr. Speaker.
I will just ask one final question
24
again before we move forward in our debate and
25
prepare to vote on this.
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1
I wasn't here in 2012.
We voted upon the map
2
that the Court has now decided that two of those
3
are unconstitutional and I have read the Final
4
Order and I am placing a significant level of trust
5
in the individuals who have crafted and drawn these
6
amendments to the maps, that you have come back to
7
us with a sense of humility and that you have taken
8
to heart what the Judge has said and the reason why
9
he is saying it.
10
Can you tell me as a member why I should trust
11
these maps that have been drawn?
12
member, these maps that have been drawn by the
13
Majority party and placed my confidence that we are
14
not going to have the maps struck down or be found
15
unconstitutional yet again?
16
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
17
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
As a minority
Representative Corcoran.
Representative, I will
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18
LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
definitely answer for myself and to the extent that
19
I have presented today and have not come across
20
with an air of humility, I certainly apologize.
21
wife says I should smile more and then I would look
22
like a nicer more humble person.
23
My
But your question I will tell you that, you
24
know, I aspire to have great integrity.
25
laid out in a memo a level of criteria and a level
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I think I
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1
of rules to follow that were not done in 2012.
2
live by those rules.
3
example myself and, and I would hope Representative
4
Edwards, as we all do, take each other at our words
5
and I am sure at some point, too, even beyond that
6
there will be depositions where I will be under
7
oath and have to testify.
8
9
10
11
12
We
I have tried to set an
But everything I have said today will be
identical to what I would say under oath.
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Further questions?
Representative Stark, for a question.
REPRESENTATIVE STARK:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
13
Representative Corcoran, the Final Judgment was
14
just over a month ago.
15
thinking was why we took so long to get to a
16
special session now?
Can you explain what the
17
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
18
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
I think there is two
19
things you have to look at.
20
August 1st, was when we had the Final Order
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Exh. J at 00394
I think it was
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21
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instructing us to go, both the Secretary of State
22
and the Supervisors of Elections to deal with their
23
elections issues and us to deal with the parts that
24
were invalidated.
25
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
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1
REPRESENTATIVE STARK:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
2
When did the work actually begin on the PCB that we
3
are seeing today?
4
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
5
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
I got here, if I remember
6
correctly, I left Pasco County late, with six kids
7
you try to maximize the time you have with them,
8
but I got here probably at 2:00 in the morning,
9
2:30 in the morning, some late hour on Monday
10
night, and I was here Tuesday working with House
11
staff and Wednesday with Senate staff, if I recall
12
correctly.
13
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
14
REPRESENTATIVE STARK:
Further follow up.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
15
Just the last question.
Do you believe that we had
16
enough time to really make an objective decision
17
here that will be approved by the courts?
18
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
19
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
I will say, Representative
20
Stark, I believe that the map that we have before
21
us, if I was given another week, it is an excellent
22
map that complies with the Judge's Order and makes
23
significant improvements over the map that was
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24
LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
invalidated and makes significant improvements over
25
the map that the Judge praised as being in a more
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1
2
favorable light than the one that was invalidated.
This map beats both of those, and I think it
3
is an excellent map, and even given more time I am
4
very, very proud of the product that we have put
5
forth before this body.
6
7
8
9
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Further questions?
Representative Danish for a question.
REPRESENTATIVE DANISH:
Mr. Speaker.
Thank you,
I am going to follow up on
10
Representative Edwards' question, Representative
11
Corcoran.
12
the map, I am curious to know, how many of those
13
people worked on the map in 2012, and how many of
14
them are new to working on the maps?
When we look at the people who work on
15
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
16
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
I wasn't here in 2012, and
17
I wasn't involved in the process like I was in the
18
special session of drawing the maps.
19
the Court Order, obviously Alex Kelly and Jason
20
Preda, Alex is no longer in the House.
21
not, was not involved in this part of the process,
22
but Jason was working on congressional maps in
23
2012, and was involved in this process.
24
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
25
REPRESENTATIVE DANISH:
I do, as from
So he did
Further questions.
I wasn't.
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43
1
2
3
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
up.
I am sorry, for a follow
Representative Danish, you are recognized.
REPRESENTATIVE DANISH:
Thank you,
4
Mr. Speaker.
5
find out, I know -- I don't need it by names, but
6
if we can find out from the total number of people
7
working on it, how many of the total number of
8
people working on it worked on the 2012, and how
9
many did not work on it in 2012, that worked on
10
this one, if we can be able to get that number.
11
Thank you.
12
13
14
I guess just more or less I wanted to
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Further questions?
Representative Torres.
REPRESENTATIVE TORRES:
Yes, Mr. Speaker.
15
Representative, during the select committee meeting
16
this past Friday, a motion to swear in those
17
providing testimony failed to pass.
18
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
19
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Why?
Representative Corcoran.
All motions are at the
20
discretion of the committee and I thought that the
21
committee felt that that wasn't necessary.
22
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
23
REPRESENTATIVE TORRES:
Thank you,
24
Mr. Speaker.
Representative, also on that day
25
Representative Thurston proposed an amendment or
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1
offered an amendment during the House Select
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LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
2
Committee that it appeared to resolve Judge Lewis'
3
concerns and it wasn't addressed.
4
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
5
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Why?
Representative Corcoran.
Representative, if you go
6
back and listen, I mean, there was numerous
7
questions about the amendment that was offered.
8
There was debate about the amendment offered, but
9
the short answer to your question is the amendment
10
that was offered failed on every single metric
11
outlined by the Court for -- against the map that
12
is before you.
13
14
15
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Further questions?
Representative Berman for a question.
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
Thank you,
16
Mr. Speaker.
Chair Corcoran, was the map modified
17
by any legislators other than yourself and Senator
18
Galvano?
19
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
20
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Chair Corcoran.
I can't speak for what
21
input the Senators had with Chair Galvano, but I do
22
know he was talking to at least Senator Gaetz and
23
coming back with input.
24
committee, I do know that I would constantly go
25
back and report to the Speaker about how things
And as I said in
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1
were going throughout the process, and then at some
2
point staff did take up once there was a finalized
3
map shortly in or around the time of while I was
4
heading to the Joint Committee, and showed him the
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LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
5
6
7
final map.
So beyond that, the answer to your question is
no, none that I am aware of.
8
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
9
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
Thank you,
10
Mr. Speaker.
Who maintained custody of the map
11
prior to its being released to the committee at
12
2:30 or whatever time it was?
13
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Corcoran.
14
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
15
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
16
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
Staff, House staff.
For a follow up.
Thank you,
17
Mr. Speaker.
So to your knowledge did -- was
18
anyone in the room when the map was shared with the
19
House Speaker or the Senate President?
20
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
21
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
I actually believe I was
22
in talking to the Speaker when staff came up and
23
then I was heading to another meeting, and as I
24
recall, if that is the point in time that they
25
showed the Speaker the map which imagine it was
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1
because they had maps, then it was the only the
2
staffers that I have outlined in my presentation.
3
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Berman.
4
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
Thank you,
5
Mr. Speaker.
So just to sort of clarify this, did
6
anyone provide a hard copy of this map to any other
7
staff or visitors from outside of the legislative
Page 41
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LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
8
process prior to being, it being published other
9
than the people that we have discussed to date?
10
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
11
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
12
Representative Corcoran.
No, no one that I am aware
of.
13
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
14
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
Thank you,
15
Mr. Speaker.
Was the United States Department of
16
Justice notified of the changes that would occur in
17
Congressional District 5?
18
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
19
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
20
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
21
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
Representative Corcoran.
No.
For a follow up.
Thank you,
22
Mr. Speaker.
23
notified of the changes that occurred under this
24
particular Bill?
25
Was the Florida Department of State
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Corcoran.
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1
2
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
No, not that I am aware
of.
3
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
4
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
Thank you,
5
Mr. Speaker.
6
on Friday, about the proposed amendment map and how
7
it had a diminishment effect based on an analysis
8
under the Senate race, under the Meek race, and at
9
that time you did not have information how this map
10
We talked a little bit in committee
would work under the same Meek race.
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11
Since that time have you compiled that
12
information and could you please share it with us
13
if you have it?
14
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
15
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
I have it and I can give
16
you a copy, too, if you want, Representative
17
Berman.
18
the 2002 benchmark seat, he got 48.08 percent, and
19
in this map it got 48.04 percent.
But if you look at the Meek race against
20
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Berman.
21
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
Thank you,
22
Mr. Speaker.
I hope that is not someone from
23
outside.
24
analysis the other day you said that, I believe it
25
went from 18 percent voting for Senator, for the --
Congressman Meek.
When you gave us the
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1
for the Democratic candidate, down to one percent
2
advantage.
3
presented.
4
So that was how the numbers were
Do you have similar numbers?
These numbers
5
are slightly, it is different analysis and I was
6
wondering if you have it the same way that you
7
presented it to the committee on the amendment map.
8
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
9
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
You are recognized.
What we were talking
10
about, there was the margin of victory and the
11
margin of victory from the benchmark plan at a
12
running up we said 16, it was 15.93 to be exact,
13
and in the enacted map before you it is 15.45.
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14
15
16
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Further questions?
Representative Rangel for a question.
REPRESENTATIVE RANGEL:
Thank you,
17
Mr. Speaker.
Representative, my question is, do
18
you not agree that we are here in special session
19
because we drew the district lines unfairly?
20
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
21
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
You know, counsel in the
22
joint meeting that we have in the Senate went into
23
a great, it was a great question by Rosa Rodriquez
24
walking him through how we kind of got here.
25
But the short answer to your question is no.
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1
I think the Judge obviously has looked and as the
2
Speaker has says, has had a very deliberative
3
process, and he has come to the conclusion that two
4
of the districts were invalid and that is why we
5
are here.
6
But I think if you go back and I won't bore
7
you with the explanation, but in the conversation
8
with Representative Rodriguez there really was a
9
tension at that end between 9043 and 9047 that was
10
a legitimate tension based on law.
11
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Rangel.
12
REPRESENTATIVE RANGEL:
Thank you,
13
Mr. Speaker.
Representative, you had mentioned
14
something that we are not talking about District 9
15
because it is not part of the Order, but I have a
16
problem because District 9, and I am going to go
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17
into my question with this, was split into Osceola
18
County, split into three different districts now
19
and diminishing the Hispanic vote.
20
Do you not think by diminishing the Hispanic
21
representation in District 9 will put us back in
22
the same boat?
23
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
24
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
25
Representative Corcoran.
I answered that earlier,
there was a line of questions, Representative, but
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1
there was no diminishment in District 9.
2
Diminishment is something that is only afforded to
3
those districts that are covered under Tier 1 or
4
the Voter Rights Act and the Judge made it very
5
clear that it was not covered by either of those
6
standards.
7
that district.
And so there can be no diminishment in
8
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
9
REPRESENTATIVE RANGEL:
Thank you,
10
Mr. Speaker.
So is there a possibility that by
11
doing this, let's say we accept this map and the
12
Judge looks at everything and says, well, you went
13
too far on District 9, is there a possibility that
14
he could still throw that out and say we are not
15
going to go with that map?
16
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
17
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
When it comes to District
18
9, no.
The issue was 5 and 10, and the issue was
19
in essence compactness. And what we did with
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20
District 9 helped us improve the compactness scores
21
of both districts.
22
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Thurston.
23
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
Thank you, Mr.
24
Speaker.
Representative, you know, one of the
25
questions that Representative Rangel was just
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1
talking about in terms of diminishment of the
2
Hispanic vote, you know, the Judge made a lot of
3
findings in this.
4
And one of the findings was that some of the
5
discussions with the political operatives talked
6
about how do we split the Hispanic vote.
7
talked about at the beginning there was districts
8
that could elect up to four Democrats, many of whom
9
were in central Florida, and would have been
10
11
It also
Hispanic.
Do you believe that the Judge's comments that
12
that was consistent with the unconstitutional
13
discussions with the operatives is something that
14
should be addressed?
15
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
16
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
Your -- I don't, you know,
17
I don't necessarily agree.
18
said when it came -- what we did there was the
19
appendage in District 10, and that appendage, part
20
of the House's discussion and this is begin a line
21
of questions that Representative Rodriquez had with
22
the counsel, you know, so when you look at District
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I think what the Judge
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23
9 and there is clearly a growing Hispanic
24
population, but that Hispanic population largely
25
did not exist in 2010.
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1
Because of that the Court found it is not, it
2
didn't have Section II or Section V protections
3
under the Voter Rights Act or Article III, Section
4
20 of the Constitution.
5
the House, was that we were trying to hasten which
6
the Judge said was a laudable goal.
7
to hasten the growth of that Hispanic community and
8
hasten it so that at some point in the near future,
9
which they will be, will become a protected
10
11
And so our argument was,
We were trying
district.
But the Judge said since they do not have that
12
and that wasn't in dispute, it was not in dispute
13
by either party that this was not a district
14
protected by Section V or Section II, so because we
15
were trying to do that but we had this appendage
16
and because the Supreme Court's ruling that when
17
you have something that doesn't look right, you
18
have to look for justification.
19
And he said that the justification we gave
20
that was trying to hasten the Hispanic, to a
21
Hispanic district wasn't justified because it had
22
no Tier 1 protections.
23
protections the fact that you had this appendage
24
that wasn't compact, he ruled it unconstitutional.
25
So because it had no Tier 1
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD: Follow up.
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1
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
Thank you,
2
Mr. Speaker.
Outside of the ruling with regards to
3
the appendage, do you agree that the Judge made
4
reference to the inappropriateness of the dialogue
5
with the Republican operatives?
6
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
7
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
You know, I think that is
8
if you read the Judge's opinion there was at a very
9
minimum where Leader discussed, you can even say, I
10
don't want to impute beliefs to Judge Lewis, but
11
clearly, you know, intents discussed with the
12
operatives and what they were doing, but, but that,
13
none of that has affected this process or how we
14
have drawn the map or how we have addressed his
15
legal rulings on what we are supposed to do.
16
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Thurston.
17
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
Thank you,
18
Mr. Speaker.
19
agree that after that he discussed the issue of the
20
e-mails where it was discussed that we would start
21
out with bad maps and progressively get the maps to
22
a certain point, and that would be a strategy that
23
we approached.
24
discussed in the opinion, Representative?
25
I take that as a yes, and do you
Do you agree that that was
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Corcoran.
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1
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Absent the e-mails the
2
operatives' behavior, all of that was discussed,
3
especially the operatives at length in his opinion.
4
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
5
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
Thank you,
6
Mr. Speaker.
Representative, do you agree that one
7
of the issues with regards to that was that
8
initially there were maps that would have allowed
9
for four seats, and ultimately after and at the
10
direction of these operatives, it wounded up being
11
one seat that provided minority access?
12
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
13
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
Thank you.
I think I gave
14
you the explanation for what the Judge said in
15
regards to District 10 and why he had that you will
16
ruling on District 10.
17
specifically throughout his opinion, the House
18
version of the map, throughout the opinion was
19
spoken of in a favorable light.
But to the House maps
20
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Further.
21
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
Representative,
22
thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Representative, you made
23
several reference to being spoken of favorably,
24
notwithstanding that that wasn't my question, but
25
let me ask you this.
When the Judge says that it
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would become potent engines by which cunning,
2
ambitious and un-principle men will be enabled to
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3
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subvert the power of people and to usurp for them
4
the reigns of government.
5
then in those terms?
6
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
7
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Who is he speaking of
Representative Corcoran.
I believe those were
8
George Washington, he was quoting Judge Washington,
9
that wasn't Judge Lewis, but he was speaking of a
10
political operative.
11
operatives.
He was -- of political
12
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
13
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
14
you, Mr. Speaker.
Representative Thurston.
Thank you.
Thank
Political operatives alone?
15
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
16
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
I can read the whole
17
George Washington quote if you want, Lead Thurston.
18
However combinations or associations of the above
19
description now and then, answer popular and fair
20
likely in the course of time and things to become
21
potent engines by which cunning, ambitious,
22
un-principle men will be enabled to subvert the
23
power of the people and usurp for themselves the
24
reigns of government, destroying out towards the
25
very engines which have lifted them up.
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SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Thurston.
2
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
So Representative,
3
he could have been talking about staff, legislators
4
and operatives as well, couldn't he?
5
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Corcoran.
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6
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CHAIRMAN CORCORAN: I don't -- I mean, I would
7
love to have George Washington testify in one of my
8
committees one day, but --
9
10
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Not Jefferson?
But I don't -- I am not
11
going to say that that is -- I can't say from his
12
the quote.
13
that surround the process, not the people in the
14
process.
I think he was talk about those people
15
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Leader Thurston.
16
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
Thank you,
17
Mr. Speaker.
18
Democrats and I know you are coming in as a leader
19
of the Republicans, we work with political
20
operatives all of the time.
21
or your opinion that political operatives act on
22
their own and they don't do what you direct them to
23
do, or are they just political operatives gone
24
wild?
25
Representative, as a leader of the
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Is it your testimony
Wouldn't that be a fun
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1
2
reality TV series.
Representative Corcoran.
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
I think the Judge in his
3
opinion recognized as, at the point that he praised
4
house staff and the leaders that were over those
5
staff, that they were acting on their own.
6
am not, you know, Leader Thurston, I don't know how
7
many questions you have, but I am not an expert on
8
political operatives and how they work and I wish I
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And I
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9
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would have prepared for that, I wish I would have
10
prepared for that portion of the questioning, but I
11
don't have that expertise.
12
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
13
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
Thank you,
14
Mr. Speaker.
Representative, I am going to take
15
that for what it is worth, but let me ask you this.
16
Out of all of those discussions and I know that you
17
praised the operatives and I mean, the staffers,
18
was there some discussion about staffers providing
19
maps to their friends and before the public or
20
other legislators happen to see them, was that --
21
did the Judge address that?
22
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
23
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
There was a description of
24
a staffer who was in the Speaker's office that did
25
that.
Nobody in the redistricting staff.
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SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Thurston.
2
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
Thank you,
3
Mr. Speaker.
Representative, let me ask you this.
4
Has anyone been disciplined in any way with regards
5
to the -- what the Judge deemed to be
6
unconstitutional activities that led us back here
7
today, any one at all been disciplined in any
8
fashion, and has anyone been referred to Rules
9
Committee to investigate any of these activities
10
that bring us back here today?
11
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Corcoran.
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12
LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN: Leader Thurston, I would
13
say this.
14
was born, lived through the Great Depression and
15
served in World War II for the Women's Air Force in
16
England and lived through the blitz.
17
by a father who was orphaned at two, grew up in an
18
orphanage, lived through the Great Depression and
19
served our country in World War II in North Africa,
20
and those two people which stressed to me over and
21
over and over and my brothers and sisters, that
22
your name is all you have, and your name is to be
23
valued more than anything else, riches, credit,
24
whatever.
25
I was raised by an English mother who
I was raised
So to the extent that I would ever be written
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1
about in an opinion the way these consultants or
2
operatives were written about, I think is the
3
height of disgrace and discipline for me
4
personally.
5
spanking, I would rather have a spanking than that.
6
Having said that, beyond that I have no idea and it
7
is not an issue before us today on this floor.
I would rather have that than a
8
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
9
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
Thank you,
10
Mr. Speaker, and thank you, Representative for that
11
history of your lineage.
12
Let me ask you this.
Does the, you know, I am
13
told that we discipline members for over-inflating
14
their newsletters, and if you are telling me that
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15
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this does not amount to that, do we have the power
16
to discipline the referred past members to the
17
Rules Committee?
18
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
19
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
Again, we could break out
20
and have a rules presentation on our existing
21
rules.
22
going to get into what our rules say and how and
23
what could or could not be done about these
24
particular operatives.
25
It is not the issues before us and I am not
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
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2
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
Mr. Speaker.
Thank you,
No further questions.
3
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Waldman.
4
REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
Thank you,
5
Mr. Speaker.
6
Senator Galvano and for you, I would like to
7
understand a little bit more about how exactly the
8
map came together, because ultimately you got to a
9
consensus.
10
While I have the utmost respect for
So what I would like to know is, who had the
11
first offer, who had the counter offer.
12
you get to where you both agreed on this map that
13
is before us?
14
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
15
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
How did
Representative Corcoran.
I outlined that in my
16
initial answer, Representative Waldman, that
17
basically we sat in a room and we had the Judge's
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18
LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
Order before us and it was very specific.
19
we know he didn't like either of the appendage or
20
the finger that went into Seminole County.
21
once you did that and said, okay, we have got to
22
take those out.
23
And so
And so
He had issues with the compactness of 5 and 10
24
and how you make them more compact and then what
25
districts were affected, that were necessarily
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affected as a result of doing those two things and
2
it was literally just that process.
3
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
4
REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
Thank you,
5
Mr. Speaker.
And I understand you said that in
6
your opening, but then when you were asked again
7
and you were asked how you got here, you said you
8
got here at 2:00 in the morning or 2:30 in the
9
morning and you met with staff, the House, and he
10
met with staff of the Senate.
11
to find out what took place with your meeting with
12
staff in the House, and to your knowledge what took
13
place with his meeting with staff in the Senate so
14
that you both came together at the same time and
15
had the same decision of what to do to correct
16
this.
17
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
18
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Because I would like
Representative Corcoran.
When I said that I got
19
together with staff, just understand, that was the
20
Speaker had asked me it be the Redistricting
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I came up and I got together with staff
21
Chairman.
22
and I asked them to put together for me copies of
23
CD's from the congressional maps that were done
24
before, both case opinions, apportionment one and
25
two from the Supreme Court.
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They put together a binder that I took and
2
started reading.
3
involvement with staff.
4
place between the House and Senate and House staff
5
and Senate staff and House counsel and Senate
6
counsel, was when we got together and we started
7
looking at that.
8
9
10
That was the extent of my
The meetings that took
But before I even had that meeting with
Senator Galvano or those folks I wanted to be up to
speed.
11
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
12
REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
Thank you,
13
Mr. Speaker.
14
it was and it was just a preparatory meeting, and
15
that is fine.
16
that I had.
17
I didn't understand that that is what
So that was what raised the question
So what I would like to know from you, because
18
you have said it a number of times, that the Judge
19
kept praising what was 9047.
20
that praising, because I haven't seen it?
21
read it, I have read through it, and what I did
22
find was on page 18 I found where the Judge
23
basically just said, while not a model Tier 2
Page 56
Exh. J at 00414
Where in the Order is
I have
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24
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compliant districts, these iterations did avoid the
25
narrow appendage jutting from the body of the
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district into Seminole County.
2
He didn't say that it was -- it was perfect.
3
He just said it wasn't model and he didn't say it
4
was great, is that correct?
5
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
6
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
Quickly, Representative
7
Waldman, one is what I was speaking about was 9043,
8
I think what you meant, not 9047.
9
is the phrase that I believe I said, I would have
The second thing
10
to go back and listen to it, Representative
11
Waldman, was he praised in a light more favorable.
12
And I think what you just read was him saying
13
something in a light more favorable than 47.
14
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
15
REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
Thank you,
16
Mr. Speaker.
Now, you are correct, I was referring
17
to 9043, the iterations prior to 9047.
18
the only reference I can find that he said that
19
those iterations were better than 9047.
20
nothing in here in this Order which said 9043 was
21
great, because if it was, why wouldn't we just go
22
to 9043 right now and be done with it?
23
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
24
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
25
But that is
There is
Representative Corcoran.
I don't have it tabbed,
Representative Waldman, but I will be glad to have
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1
staff go through it.
He said those words about
2
9043 in a more favorable light in multiple parts of
3
the opinion, and I can find those for you and ask
4
staff to find those for you real fast.
5
don't have it tabbed.
6
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
7
REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
8
Mr. Speaker.
9
forward to getting that.
I just
For a follow up.
Thank you,
Yes, I would like, I would look
I appreciate that.
You
10
were also asked about the Thurston amendment, the
11
Soto map, and you said it failed in all respects
12
based upon the metrics in the Order.
13
14
Specifically in terms of the BVAP, the black
voting age population, why did it fail?
15
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
16
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
My comment there was that
17
if you compare the amendment that was offered
18
versus the amendment, I mean, the Bill, the PCB
19
before them, if you compared it on those things
20
that we are discussing today, they had -- the
21
amendment had a BVAP of 43.70, where ours has one
22
of a 48.11.
23
comparisons of city splits, they split one more
24
city, we are same in counties.
25
And then if you look at the
And then in -- and then in terms of the
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metrics, whether it be visual compactness or
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2
whether it be the two measurements used by the
3
Court, Reock and convex hull, ours performed
4
better.
5
6
7
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Recognized for a follow
up, Representative Waldman.
REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
Thank you,
8
Mr. Speaker.
So what you are saying is you are
9
talking it failed in the metrics in comparison to
10
yours, but it didn't fail in the metrics regarding
11
anything, in effect, the BVAP is better than what
12
Dr. Brunell, who was the expert who was retained by
13
the House, suggested that there would be a 50/50
14
ability to elect a minority candidate of choice
15
with a BVAP as well as 43.6.
16
So in fact the Thurston amendment actually had
17
a higher BVAP which would have been compliant with
18
the Court's Order, is that correct?
19
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
20
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
This was another question
21
that Representative Rodriquez, I thought you were
22
on the committee at the time, Representative
23
Waldman, but Representative Rodriguez asked
24
specifically about that, and again counsel gave the
25
explanation.
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That was in the Summary Judgment phase about a
2
particular map.
Tom Brunell was asked to evaluate
3
that map and he said the first order of business
4
was for him to figure out what would make that
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5
district a 50/50 or a coin toss map.
6
analysis and he came that that district would be a
7
50/50 or a coin toss at 43.6.
8
9
He did that
The map that was before him in the Summary
Judgment phase, I don't know the exact number, but
10
it was in the 30s.
11
any analysis beyond that because it has already
12
failed.
13
43.6, but nowhere did he say that that -- he said
14
43.6 is a 50/50 coin toss map.
15
So he said he didn't have to do
The map before them is well below the
And if you look at it whether it be the
16
Supreme Court or the Congressional reauthorization
17
of the Voter Rights Act, you can't take a district
18
where the benchmark is 49.9, which is the benchmark
19
in this district, and take it down to a coin toss.
20
That is fundamentally contrary to the Section V and
21
the diminishment standard in the Constitution that
22
says you cannot diminish or retrogress that
23
district, and that is the context in which he said
24
43.6.
25
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
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REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
Thank you,
2
Mr. Speaker.
3
supply me with that legal opinion right there which
4
you just stated and cite me to where that is stated
5
that that says that in there, because I don't
6
believe that is correct.
7
And I would like it if you could also
So let's just move on to what was really the
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8
reason why the Court had determined that the map
9
was unconstitutional and those districts in
10
11
particular were invalid.
What analysis have you done on CD 7 regarding
12
the Sink, Obama, Davis performance?
13
-- there is nothing in the staff analysis which
14
refers to that and the Court specifically talked
15
about that as part of the problem with District 5.
16
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
17
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
There is not
Representative Corcoran.
He talked about it in 5
18
because you have to do a functional analysis under
19
the Tier 1 standard and the Voter Rights Act.
20
didn't look at it and the Court didn't address it
21
because it wasn't an issue in district, whatever
22
district you just mentioned.
23
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
24
REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
25
Mr. Speaker.
We
Representative Waldman.
Thank you,
But with all due respect, that is
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exactly what he did in fact.
2
he found 5 was invalid, was because of what the
3
effect was on 7.
4
that there is no staff analysis which now talks
5
about Congressional District 7 and the effect on
6
Republican voting.
7
That is the basis why
So I would find it very strange
So why didn't you do it, and I will cite you
8
to the page, I mean, it is right at his decision
9
and that is page 32 and he says, based on the above
10
and the above paragraph specifically deals with
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11
Congressional District 7 and what the voting was
12
and what the effect of basically bleaching which is
13
what you did.
14
analysis today?
So why didn't you give us that
15
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Corcoran.
16
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
17
Representative Waldman.
18
issue with and the reason we are here on 5 and 10.
19
Ten has that appendage of jutting next to 7, and he
20
was making an analysis that not only did it -- when
21
you have something that looks like that, that you
22
can't justify, and he went through the House's
23
justification for what we were doing in District 9
24
and trying to bolster and hasten the Hispanic
25
growth in that population, he looked at that
I stated that earlier,
The districts that he had
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1
appendage, and in looking at that appendage he was
2
saying, and looking at the results in the voter
3
turn out, it got more favorable for District 10 and
4
which went to his point that it was also violated
5
intent.
6
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
7
REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
Thank you,
8
Mr. Speaker.
Perhaps you can just look at page 32,
9
because that is not -- that doesn't effect, that is
10
not what I am talking about and that is not what
11
the Judge decided.
12
about 10 in that one.
13
and 7.
That is, he wasn't even talking
He was just talking about 5
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14
So what you just told me had nothing to do
15
with it.
What happened here is basically when you
16
took all of the black voting age population in 5
17
and you stuck them all in 5, you basically made it
18
so 7 would be a Republican leading district.
19
that is what the Judge said, and I want to
20
understand why you didn't give us an analysis now
21
of what happened to 7 when you just did this
22
redrawing.
23
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
24
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
25
So
Representative Corcoran.
If you, Representative
Waldman, to your point, if you look at -- let me
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1
find his final statement on the issue.
2
page, the bottom, the middle of page 32.
3
Based on
Based on the above I find the Plaintiffs have
4
proved that District 5 unnecessarily subjugates the
5
two tier principles of compactness, and they have
6
also proved portions of District 5 were drawn to
7
benefit the Republican party in violation of Tier
8
1.
9
So what he was doing in his analysis and why
10
he found it was a Tier 1 intent issue was because
11
of the analysis that you just went through that
12
showed that the district got better, but it was it
13
invalidate 5.
14
found 5 to be in violation of Tier 1.
It was to go to the reason why he
15
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Follow up.
16
REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
Page 63
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Thank you,
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17
Mr. Speaker.
18
point, okay, but what he found specifically, and
19
you have got, you have got House counsel right
20
there and that House counsel ought to be able to
21
give you the answer to this.
22
And I truly don't mean to belabor the
He found specifically that what your problem
23
was, was that what you did in 5 positively affected
24
7 for Republican votes.
25
I am happy to talk with Mr. Meros directly about
That was his finding, and
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1
2
it, but that was his finding.
And then he gave an analysis, and the analysis
3
was based upon the reduction in numbers.
In the
4
Sink race, the Obama race and the Davis race.
5
why didn't you address that now at this time,
6
because frankly you know that if we pass this map
7
and I have no doubt that this map that is before us
8
is the map that is going to be passed, I have no
9
doubt that the Judge is going to look at this and
10
he is going to want that analysis to see, did you
11
really change 7.
12
analysis?
So
So why don't we have that
13
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
14
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
Representative Waldman, I
15
think we are two ships past the night.
16
what, just give me a second and follow me on this.
17
So was invalidated is Congressional District 5.
18
now the Judge is doing his analysis of why
19
Congressional District 5 is invalidated, and I read
Page 64
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And here is
So
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20
you why he invalidated it.
21
He invalidated it because of compactness and
22
then he did it at Tier 1 intent.
And so he is
23
giving his reasons why it failed under compactness
24
and under Tier 1 intent.
25
appendage that he thinks is clearly a violation of
So he is looking at that
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compactness, and he says, and he quotes the Supreme
2
Court opinion that when you have an appendage like
3
that and you can't find justification for it, then
4
it is probably a -- and it could lead you towards
5
intent.
6
And then he does and beyond that, beyond just
7
the Supreme Court's ruling, then he does an
8
analysis of when you did that, when that appendage
9
was added what did it do to the surrounding
10
counties and their performance, and he looked at
11
the performance data in those surrounding counties
12
and found that there was a benefit to the
13
surrounding counties on performance, and so he says
14
I am throwing it out on intent.
15
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
16
REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
Thank you,
17
Mr. Speaker.
You are right, we are actually two
18
ships passing in the night, not even close, because
19
what you just gave to me was his decision based on
20
Congressional District 10.
21
32 and Mr. Meros is right there read it right now,
22
okay.
Page 65
Exh. J at 00423
And I point you to page
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23
When you talk about the appendage, that is in
24
Congressional District 10 is what he talks about,
25
and when you talk about what they explained about
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1
the appendages render a district not compact, that
2
is in District 10.
3
different decision.
4
The District 5 decision is a
So I just want, I just want that answer, why
5
don't we have the analysis here in front of us that
6
the Judge went through?
7
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
8
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
9
Representative Corcoran.
You are correct, what I am
talking, we are both -- what we are missing was my
10
mistake.
When I am talking about the appendage, I
11
am talking about the appendage that went into
12
Seminole County for District 5, the finger-like
13
appendage that went into Seminole County for
14
District 5.
15
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
16
REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
Thank you,
17
Mr. Speaker.
18
there were others who want to speak.
19
I see Representative Slosberg over here does, but I
20
just have a couple, I did that on purpose, I am
21
sorry.
22
I didn't want to keep going on if
I know that,
I just have a couple other -- a couple other
23
things.
So one of the things that the Judge
24
pointed out and Representative Thurston was talking
25
about it, was the political operatives' decision
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1
and that was what, let's see, that was on page 24
2
where he refers to Mr. Rikle Duffer, is that how
3
you pronounce his name, Rikle Duffer, I guess, but
4
he talks about the plan and he said, he said,
5
should they start less compliant and involved
6
through the process, and you are familiar with that
7
portion of the -- of the Order, aren't you?
8
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
9
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
Yes.
10
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
11
REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
And then he goes on
12
to say should the first, asking the question as the
13
political operatives do and asking it in terms of
14
the legislators and whoever he is talking to,
15
should the first map be as near as compliant as
16
possible and change very little.
17
with that are portion of what the testimony was?
18
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
19
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
20
Representative Waldman?
21
And you familiar
Representative Corcoran.
What page are you on,
Yes, on page 23.
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
While he is finding the
22
page, why don't you restate your question there,
23
Representative Waldman?
24
25
REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
Mr. Speaker.
Thank you,
I just wanted to make sure that he
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1
was familiar with that passage and what took place
2
and where it said, should the first, first map be
3
as near as compliant as possible and change very
4
little.
5
go through the process, isn't that correct, what
6
was that testimony?
And he was referring to the fact that we
7
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
8
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
9
10
Representative Corcoran.
I mean, I am reading the
notes about Rikel Duffer's notes following the
meeting.
11
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
12
REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
Thank you,
13
Mr. Speaker.
14
acknowledge that what he was talking about was that
15
the best way to go forward with this is probably
16
similar to just about any negotiation.
17
one end and hope to the get to the area, whether it
18
be that you start out high and you try to get to a
19
lower price, or start out low and you try to get to
20
a higher price.
21
But you would -- you would
Start it at
You would agree that that was part of the
22
process and part of what they were looking to do,
23
was that correct?
24
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
25
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
You are recognized.
I think that what he is
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1
going through.
I mean, I wasn't on the phone call,
2
Representative Waldman, but he is going through an
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3
LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
analysis of that and that is one of his
4
suggestions.
5
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
6
REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
Thank you,
7
Mr. Speaker.
You would agree that when you made
8
the change in this -- in this map you guys started,
9
you started with what the existing map was and you
10
worked down from that.
11
that correct?
You testified to that, is
12
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
13
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
Again, in 2012, I wasn't a
14
part of the Redistricting Committee, but reading
15
the opinion, that is what he said.
16
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
17
REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
Thank you,
18
Mr. Speaker.
What I am trying to say, is when you
19
and Senator Galvano decided to go through this, you
20
started with what was that bad map which was not
21
compliant, which was what was referred to by Judge
22
Lewis, is that correct?
23
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
24
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
25
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Corcoran.
That is correct.
For a follow up.
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1
REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
So essentially what
2
you did and Senator Galvano did was exactly what
3
this operative suggested be done, let's start with
4
the less compliant map and let's move towards
5
compliance, and that is the process that you got to
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6
LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
in this redrawing. Isn't that really what took
7
place?
8
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
9
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
No, I think what -- what
10
Rikle Duffer is saying is that the entire, from
11
beginning to end when you have, you know, let's
12
start and, with a -- and allow the amendatory
13
process to get us to a better, a better space.
14
So the first proposal, what -- what Senator
15
Galvano and I did was looked at the map that we
16
passed that went to the Judge and was thrown out,
17
and we never went through a process where we said,
18
okay, now, let's put forth before the committee or
19
whatever, a map that isn't compliant and then allow
20
it to get better and better and better.
21
The map before we put before, Senator Galvano
22
and I, I am like what -- it appears what Rikle
23
Duffer is talking about was the map that we are
24
voting on today.
25
changes to it.
It is never -- we have made no
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1
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
2
REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
Thank you,
3
Mr. Speaker.
I want to make it very clear, I don't
4
question your integrity or Senator Galvano's
5
integrity one bit.
6
is if I understand correctly, the reason we are
7
here in the special session is this is still part
8
of the process.
What I am just trying to get at
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9
LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
I mean, we -- we went through it, it goes to
10
the Court, we passed it, it goes to the Court, they
11
send it back to the Senate, then we got another
12
lawsuit, he sent it back to here, but the special
13
session was all part of the process, the same as
14
what this Rikle Duffer is suggesting be done.
15
So he actually had the idea that, listen,
16
let's go this way, it will get thrown out by the
17
Court.
18
they will still be dealing with that lousy map and
19
all they have to do is tweak it and we can still
20
get to where we want to get to.
21
We will come back, they will come back, but
So isn't that really what happened, because
22
you didn't going and reanalyze and you said it to
23
me, you didn't really go reanalyze Senate District,
24
Congressional District 5 or 7 or 9 for that matter,
25
isn't that really where we are at?
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1
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
2
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
No, Representative
3
Waldman, I don't agree with the assessment at all.
4
We are here because of the Judge had a ruling that
5
invalidated a map.
6
Galvano and I went through, unlike the process that
7
it appears Rikle Duffer is talking about what they
8
should go through in 2012, what we -- the process
9
we went through was we didn't -- there was no
But the process that Senator
10
gamesmanship or, you know, whatever, you know,
11
thing, you know, let's hide the ball.
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LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
We said here is the map and there was no
13
changes, it was never -- the map that Senator
14
Galvano and I put forth, there was no changes to.
15
You are trying to say that we made changes to the
16
invalidated map and somehow it is the same.
17
completely different.
18
multiple levels.
19
20
21
It is
That analogy fails on
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Waldman
for a follow up.
REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
Thank you,
22
Mr. Speaker.
So -- so it is your position then,
23
because even though you started with an invalid map
24
that really went through the process the way Rikle
25
Duffer was suggesting that it be done, because you
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1
and Senator Galvano do not have or did not have any
2
intent to favor or disfavor a political party or to
3
do anything along those Tier 1 and Tier 2
4
requirements, but as long as your intent was okay,
5
that the map is fine.
6
Is that what your belief is even though you
7
started with an invalid map and all you did was
8
tweak it a little bit?
9
10
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
Again, we are -- I am not
11
going to agree to that, Representative Waldman.
12
started with a map that had 25 of 27 districts
13
constitutionally validated.
14
at per the Judge's Order the two districts that
Page 72
Exh. J at 00430
We
What we did was look
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15
LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
were invalidated and put it up and then Bill,
16
Senator Galvano and I went through the process of
17
drawing the map as it appears.
18
talking about the process of drawing a map, and he
19
is saying that it appears, I am not him, that let's
20
draw a bad map and then allow it to get better
21
through the process.
22
Rikle Duffer is
Senator Galvano and I sought to draw the best
23
possible map that complies with the Order.
24
that and it has not changed through the process.
25
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
We did
For a follow up.
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1
REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
Thank you,
2
Mr. Speaker.
3
Judge's opinion, because frankly I don't want to be
4
back here again, and I think that there is always a
5
possibility we could be back here again and I am
6
not looking forward to doing that.
7
I am just, and I am focusing on the
So that is why I am focusing on the Judge's
8
opinion exactly.
And the Judge talked a great deal
9
about legislative intent, and who's intent is
10
important in terms of whether a map is invalid or
11
not.
12
understand you correctly, that your testimony is
13
that it was not your intent nor Senator Galvano's
14
intent in spite of the fact that you worked with an
15
invalid map, an unconstitutional map, because it is
16
the entire map which was unconstitutional, it is
17
only the two districts that they found were non
So I just want to be certain that I
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18
LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
compliant, but the whole map was thrown out, that
19
your, your belief is that you complied with the
20
Judge's Order because the only intent in spite of
21
what may take place, is your intent as a drafter
22
and Senator Galvano's intent as a drafter, is that
23
correct?
24
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
25
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
You are recognized.
Yes, I mean, I have to go
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1
look at it again, it was in there, he went through
2
a whole analysis of legislative intent, but I
3
believe is the entire body and the individual
4
members of the entire body.
5
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Williams.
6
You are recognized for a question.
7
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS:
Thank you,
8
Mr. Speaker, and thank you, Chair Corcoran, for
9
your indulgence this afternoon.
So I have is
10
looking at the map and looking at the, I guess in
11
totality the seven districts that were impacted by
12
the map that you put forth in your -- in your Bill.
13
We have talked a little bit about a few of them.
14
Can you share with the body what the impact
15
would be to the entire seven districts and what --
16
what the impact will look like really to the
17
voters, especially and then I have a follow up,
18
Mr. Speaker?
19
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
20
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
If you would look at, I
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21
LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
will just give you the highlights, Representative
22
Williams, and if you have more specific questions I
23
would be glad to answer them.
24
25
But 5, the changes we completely eliminated
the incursion that went into Seminole County.
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1
eastern boundary now follows the St. Johns River
2
all the way from Duval County to Seminole County.
3
We have discussed the BVAP and I just told you how
4
it is visually and mathematically more compact.
5
Six, which is to the east of it.
Again, the
6
visual compactness was greatly improved compared to
7
the enacted map.
8
rectangular if you look at it.
9
boundary is shared with 5, so it is the entire St.
It now looks much more
Its western
10
Johns River, from Duval to Volusia County, and
11
Palatka remains whole up in that northern part that
12
changed.
13
In District 7, which is Seminole County, it is
14
now an entire kept whole.
15
greatly improved, and the western boundary is
16
shared with Congressional District 5 which is the
17
St. Johns River.
18
The visual compactness
District 9 which is south of that and the
19
visual mathematical compactness up as I said it
20
before, and the county which is Osceola County is
21
now split, but all the municipalities that were
22
within it were kept whole.
23
District 10 the appendage again is removed as
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24
LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
required by the Judge, or as discussed by the
25
Judge.
Divisional mathematical compactness is
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1
2
improved.
District 11 was minor changes.
We just went
3
in a little bit to Marion County where there is
4
very little population.
5
that was in there was some sort of abandoned
6
bombing range or something, but it is little
7
population on the northeast side.
8
9
I think one of the things
And then in District 17 we made minor changes
in the -- just to equalize population on the
10
northern part, and that is where we split Osceola
11
County and put it in District 17.
12
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
13
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS:
Thank you,
14
Mr. Speaker, and thank you for that explanation.
15
You spoke earlier about not having seen, I guess
16
the political performance of the maps.
17
Do you believe that we probably should as a
18
body probably have that conversation and discussion
19
since that is part of the reason why we are here
20
today, just so we won't obviously have to be back
21
here anytime soon, because obviously the will of
22
the voters is such that they want to make sure that
23
there is no incumbent protection, political
24
favoritism, whatever you want to call it.
25
Can we have that conversation and should that
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1
be something that we have for the entire body?
2
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
3
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
We made the decision
4
looking at Tier 1, looking at the Judge's opinion
5
that the only data we looked at was that was
6
required under Congressional District 5 and no
7
other district, and we think that is the best
8
course of action for the legislative body.
9
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
10
further questions?
11
question.
12
Further questions,
Representative Pafford for a
REPRESENTATIVE PAFFORD:
Thank you,
13
Mr. Speaker.
14
much for weathering these questions.
15
question.
16
session was I believe August 4th.
17
18
Representative Corcoran, thank you so
I have a
So the call that was made for the
When did you actually begin working with
Senator Galvano on the initial map?
19
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
20
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
The first time I met with
21
him just to confirm with staff, Representative
22
Pafford, was probably Tuesday evening maybe, when
23
Senator Galvano was in town and I can't remember
24
the time.
25
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
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REPRESENTATIVE PAFFORD:
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Exh. J at 00435
Thank you,
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2
Mr. Speaker.
So Tuesday evening was August 5th.
3
So you believe you were here meeting with Senator
4
Galvano August 5th?
5
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
6
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
7
8
9
10
Representative Corcoran.
I am sorry, representative
Pafford, can you repeat it one more time?
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Please repeat the
question.
REPRESENTATIVE PAFFORD:
Certainly, thank you,
11
Mr. Speaker.
You say you had begun to work on this
12
map Tuesday evening, which I believe would be
13
August 5th, is that correct?
14
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
You are recognized.
15
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
16
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
17
REPRESENTATIVE PAFFORD:
That is correct.
For a follow up.
Thank you, Mr.
18
speaker.
So representative Corcoran, the initial
19
language in the Senate was filed on August 5th,
20
2014, at 12:17 p.m.
21
actually being filed?
Did you have any idea that was
22
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
23
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
You are recognized.
The Senate has different
24
rules than us, and so that is their shell Bill.
25
There was nothing in it.
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SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
2
REPRESENTATIVE PAFFORD:
3
Mr. Speaker.
4
was being filed?
Representative Pafford.
Thank you,
So were you aware that a shell Bill
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5
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
6
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
Remember, I said I got in
7
late and I met with House staff.
They gave me the
8
booklet with all of the briefing that is in there,
9
and then the conversations with staff about where
10
we were.
They informed me the Senate had filed a
11
shell Bill with the -- that had nothing new in it,
12
except the enacted map.
13
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
14
REPRESENTATIVE PAFFORD:
Thank you,
15
Mr. Speaker.
So representative Corcoran, when in
16
fact did the current language that we are seeing
17
today, that was discussed the evening of
18
August 5th, is that correct?
19
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
20
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
Yes, what ultimately
21
became the map before you, those discussions
22
started the 5th and went through the 6th, and into
23
the 7th.
24
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Pafford.
25
REPRESENTATIVE PAFFORD:
Thank you,
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Mr. Speaker.
2
questioning period it was mentioned that it is
3
fairly common when we have bipartisan Bills, like
4
any Bill, that it is quite common to invite members
5
of both parties into meetings.
6
was not necessary?
7
So at the beginning of this
Did you feel that
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD: You are recognized.
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8
9
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Pafford, I
think I have answered that for Leader Thurston, I
10
answered -- if you want me I will answer -- go
11
through the whole line of answers again, but I
12
think this might be the third or fourth time, but I
13
would be glad to do it.
14
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Pafford.
15
REPRESENTATIVE PAFFORD:
Thank you,
16
Mr. Speaker.
17
became part of the Committee Bill that was heard on
18
August 8th, was sent out during the special
19
concurrent meeting on August 7th.
20
So the language that, that ultimately
Do you feel that was enough time for folks who
21
may have wanted to provide an amendment to that
22
Bill to have it?
23
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
24
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
25
Representative Corcoran.
I do, Representative
Pafford, because the fact was an amendment was
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filed to it.
2
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
3
REPRESENTATIVE PAFFORD:
Thank you,
4
Mr. Speaker.
5
on the committee was pretty much shot down, and
6
staff basically was used in my view to take away
7
from a Bill that didn't have proper time for an
8
analyst to take a look at it.
9
was okay?
10
So the Bill that I observed not being
Did you feel that
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD: Representative Corcoran.
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11
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
I think that the staff has
12
done an exemplary job and you had -- that was the
13
amendment before us, Representative Pafford.
14
also had a member file a Bill and he filed it much
15
sooner than the amendment that was filed, which was
16
a Bill in and of itself, and was filed previously
17
in the Senate.
18
We
We saw it in the House not until it was filed
19
as an amendment, but it did exist in the Senate.
20
And even on the Bill that was filed much earlier by
21
one of your members of your caucus, staff worked
22
with them extensively and they decided because of
23
the conversations in working with them, not to even
24
file that Bill.
25
everybody expeditiously and everyone has had the
But I think staff has worked with
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opportunity to have that debate.
2
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
3
REPRESENTATIVE PAFFORD:
Thank you,
4
Mr. Speaker, thank you, Representative Corcoran.
5
Considering the fact that the amendment failed, and
6
staff who did perform an excellent job on the PCB,
7
a wonderful job, was there any consideration
8
considering that we are in special session and that
9
a Judge asked us to come back to provide a fair
10
opportunity over the weekend to call a committee
11
meeting and consider more language that perhaps
12
would have had better input from the full body?
13
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD: Representative Corcoran.
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14
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
I think our process has
15
fully allowed that and we are on second reading
16
right now where you can offer any amendment.
17
can even offer late filed amendments on, amendments
18
with a Super Majority and none were filed.
19
had every member, all 120 of us had all weekend to
20
file amendments today on the floor.
21
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
22
REPRESENTATIVE PAFFORD:
You
But we
For a follow up.
Thank you,
23
Mr. Speaker.
It was noted during that committee
24
meeting that staff would be busy and they would
25
provide information that had been requested during
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1
that committee meeting.
So was there really time
2
to put forward an amendment or perhaps another Bill
3
that all of the members of this Chamber might be
4
able to vote for today?
5
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
6
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
7
Representative Corcoran.
Yes, I absolutely believe
that is the case.
8
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
9
REPRESENTATIVE PAFFORD:
Thank you,
10
Mr. Speaker.
So the memo, I will take you back to
11
August 5th, you were kind to put out a memo that
12
requested staff members, anybody who is putting
13
forward a Bill to share it with either the
14
committee body or this House or whoever, those
15
folks that we were working with potentially.
16
was the purpose of that memo?
Page 82
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What
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17
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
18
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
Because of the -- the
19
Court's opinion, I mean, basically I thought as the
20
Chairman of the Committee and with consultation
21
with the Speaker that the best course of action in
22
order to, you know, as Representative Edwards
23
represented earlier, to have people have the full
24
faith and confidence in what we were doing and the
25
product we were doing to put forth that memo that
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had those requirements.
2
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Pafford.
3
REPRESENTATIVE PAFFORD:
Thank you,
4
Mr. Speaker.
5
Representative Rodriquez asked if we could swear in
6
people before your committee?
7
ensure integrity within this process, and that
8
everything was put out there, why was your
9
immediate goal, your immediate reaction prior to
10
So what was the reaction when
If your goal was to
the actual motion, no?
11
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
12
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
I did what any Chairman
13
would do and that is I put the motion before the
14
body and the body voted.
15
had one vote along with every other member on the
16
committee who had one vote and they voted it down
17
eight to five.
It wasn't, obviously I
18
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
19
REPRESENTATIVE PAFFORD:
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Mr. Speaker.
And again, thank you, Representative
21
Corcoran.
22
in a different process as we stand here today?
Would swearing people in have resulted
23
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
24
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
25
Representative Corcoran.
Speaking for myself I do
not believe that to be the case at all.
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SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Further questions?
2
Representative Richardson, thank you for your
3
patience, you are recognized.
4
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Questions,
5
Representative Richardson, thank you for your
6
patience, you are recognized.
7
REPRESENTATIVE RICHARDSON:
Thank you, thank
8
you, Mr. Speaker.
Now, I noted that your members
9
in the Majority haven't had a chance to ask all of
10
their questions, so I am happy to yield at your
11
pleasure, or I can continue.
12
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
I think they have been
13
busy reading the Q and A that we handed out to
14
everyone.
15
recognized.
16
Representative Richardson, you are
REPRESENTATIVE RICHARDSON:
Thank you,
17
Mr. Speaker.
18
Representative Rouson asked you in a question if
19
any experts were consulted on this, and I know you
20
and Senator Galvano were involved, and you said no.
21
22
Chair Corcoran, earlier
So, but do you know if any experts were
advising any of the staff?
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SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
24
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
25
Representative Corcoran.
I do.
If that where the
case they would have told me as per my memo and
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there was no outside advisement to staff.
2
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Follow up.
3
REPRESENTATIVE RICHARDSON:
Thank you.
And my
4
next question is on that memo dated August 5th.
5
I note that part of the memo is written in first
6
person and part of the memo is in third person.
7
So
So where you say in some cases, I have
8
specifically, and in other cases specifically I am
9
focused on where you are saying committee staff
10
have been informed that they are to have no
11
interactions with any member of Congress,
12
Congressional staff or any political consultant.
13
So in that case who advised the staff?
14
that you or someone else?
15
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
16
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Was
Representative Corcoran.
They received the same.
17
That memo went out to everybody, they all received
18
the same memo.
19
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
20
REPRESENTATIVE RICHARDSON:
Thank you,
21
Mr. Speaker.
So this memo, in fact, was the
22
notification to staff, is that correct?
23
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
You are recognized.
24
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
25
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD: Representative
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That is correct.
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2
Richardson.
REPRESENTATIVE RICHARDSON:
Thank you,
3
Mr. Speaker.
4
I think the Judge's Order was August 1st.
5
during the period of August 1st, to August 5th, can
6
you tell me if the staff or anyone else, if their
7
behavior was in anyway limited in terms of having
8
conversations with people about the maps?
9
10
So the memo is dated August 5th, and
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
So
Representative Corcoran.
I can't say definitively
11
having not been here, Representative Richardson,
12
but I can say definitively having talked to them
13
that is not the case.
14
15
16
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative
Richardson.
REPRESENTATIVE RICHARDSON:
So if I
17
understand, you had a conversation with all of the
18
staff and they advised you that they did not have
19
any conversations or input from anyone, even prior
20
to the date of your memo, is that -- is that your
21
representation?
22
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
23
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
That is the -- that is
24
correct.
And counsel just informed me that they
25
were immediately upon the ruling informed not to
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2
3
4
have those conversations by House counsel.
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative
Richardson.
REPRESENTATIVE RICHARDSON:
Thank you,
5
Mr. Speaker.
6
were limited to not have any interactions with
7
members of Congress.
8
Congressional staffers, I know what that means.
9
But it says or with any political consultant.
10
11
I noticed on this they were -- they
I know what that means.
Can you at the me to understand, what did you
mean there?
What is a political consultant?
12
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
13
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
I think generally, I mean,
14
I can pull out a dictionary and try to get a
15
Webster's definition, but I think we all know what
16
a political consultant is.
17
political advice related to the electoral process.
18
19
20
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Someone who gives you
Representative
Richardson for a follow up.
REPRESENTATIVE RICHARDSON:
Thank you,
21
Mr. Speaker.
22
office in '12, I remember so many people giving me
23
so much free advice.
24
they were political consultants.
25
You know, when I was running for
And I guess in their mind
So would in this case, would a political
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consultant be only a paid, someone paid to give
2
advice, or would they be -- would it also include
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someone who is unpaid, but offering their
4
consultancy without remuneration?
5
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
6
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
You are recognized.
Representative, whether
7
that person was paid, whether that person was
8
unpaid, whether that person was a Republican
9
consultant, an MPA consultant, an Independent
10
consultant, a Democratic consultant, it doesn't
11
matter.
12
Any consultant that would have tried to make
13
that approach did not -- was not allowed and that
14
was the point of the memo.
15
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
16
REPRESENTATIVE RICHARDSON:
Just so that I am
17
absolutely clear.
Is -- if a person were offering
18
their advice without compensation or without a
19
proper title of being a political consultant, would
20
staff have been permitted to have these
21
interactions in that case?
22
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
23
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
If they had some sort of
24
conversation that wasn't covered in that memo with
25
whoever it might be that wasn't related to the
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redistricting process or the maps specifically or
2
having some sort of purpose of addressing those
3
maps or looking at those maps, then they were
4
having a conversation with their friend after work,
5
they are more than entitled to.
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SPEAKER WEATHERFORD: For a follow up.
7
REPRESENTATIVE RICHARDSON:
Thank you,
8
Mr. Speaker.
So I think I heard that if, if they
9
wanted to have a conversation with their friends
10
and their friends wanted to give them some advice
11
on this, that would be okay.
12
that correct?
13
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
14
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
15
not regarding the maps.
Am I understanding
You are recognized.
No, I specifically said
16
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
17
REPRESENTATIVE RICHARDSON:
Thank you,
18
Mr. Speaker.
19
interaction in your memo.
20
different things to different people.
21
people think interaction, because inter meaning
22
between, has to be an exchange of conversation
23
where one person listens and another person talks
24
and vice-versa.
25
I also want to focus on the word
You know, that can mean
Sometimes
So would it be covered in your memo if a
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member of the staff just listened, but does not
2
speak?
3
and be prevented?
Would that be included in an interaction
4
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
5
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
You are recognized.
Representative, I mean,
6
here is what I am going to say.
7
Judge's Order, looking at the issues that he had,
8
we wrote that memo to make sure that this process
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Exh. J at 00447
Is looking at the
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9
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is -- was done in the best fashion possible.
Staff
10
fully understood the intent, every other member I
11
have spoken to fully understood the intent of that
12
memo.
13
They followed that memo to a T, and what is,
14
the map that is before you is free from any kind of
15
involvement from any person that would have in any
16
way, shape or form been inappropriate.
17
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
18
REPRESENTATIVE RICHARDSON:
Thank you,
19
Mr. Speaker.
20
was just asked by Representative Pafford.
21
when was the first time you had an exchange with
22
Senator Galvano and you, you responded, if I heard
23
you correctly, that you had a meeting on the 5th.
24
25
Moving on to another question that
He asked
So I am wondering if you had a phone
conversation with him before you arrived on the
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5th?
2
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Corcoran.
3
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
4
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
5
REPRESENTATIVE RICHARDSON:
I did not.
For a follow up.
Thank you,
6
Mr. Speaker.
7
the map, and I think that it was your response to
8
Representative Waldman that you said that there
9
were no prior iterations of the map that was filed
10
11
A different question was asked about
with the Bill.
Now, I know when I write a Bill oftentimes I
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12
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will put something in the drafting and then I have
13
got to work on it and tweak it and so forth.
14
were there any earlier versions of the map, or if
15
you look at this Bill there is really not a map in
16
the Bill.
17
the map.
18
went to Bill drafting?
It is just a narrative description of
So was there an earlier version before it
19
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
20
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
21
So
Representative Corcoran.
There were earlier drafts
that have been kept.
22
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
23
REPRESENTATIVE RICHARDSON:
Thank you,
24
Mr. Speaker.
And those earlier versions, were they
25
in -- I assume those were in Word or some sort of
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software before that was sent to Bill drafting.
2
Can you help me understand what you mean by that?
3
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
4
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
5
Representative Corcoran.
They were all in My
District Builder, as I said at the outset.
6
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
7
REPRESENTATIVE RICHARDSON:
When you say, in
8
your district folder, do you mean an electronic
9
folder?
I am trying to find out if they are --
10
normally when I sent a Bill to Bill drafting I have
11
worked on something perhaps in a Word processing
12
software and then I send it to Bill drafting, they
13
upload it.
14
So I am trying to find out if there was
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15
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something written before it was sent in drafting,
16
or if you hand wrote something and they typed it up
17
in Bill drafting.
18
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
19
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
The drafts we have in the
20
redistricting suite that you can come look at.
21
District Builder is the software program where you
22
build the maps, not my district folder, My District
23
Builder, it is the software.
24
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
25
REPRESENTATIVE RICHARDSON:
My
For a follow up.
Thank you,
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1
Mr. Speaker.
So when you responded to
2
Representative Waldman that there was not a
3
different version, you were talking about there
4
wasn't a different version once it got to Bill
5
drafting, but you -- you do have different versions
6
prior to the fact, prior to putting it into Bill
7
drafting, is that correct?
8
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
9
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
You are recognized.
Yes.
What Representative
10
Waldman and I, I believe we were talking about was
11
he was quoting from the Court opinion where they
12
had the strategy of releasing a map and then making
13
it get better along the process, and I was saying
14
that is not what we did.
15
Sure, we worked on the map and had different
16
drafts, but once we released it was the final map.
17
There was no desire to go beyond what was released
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18
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unless it was the will of the body.
19
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
You are recognized.
20
REPRESENTATIVE RICHARDSON:
Thank you, sir.
21
And the earlier versions that you have in the suite
22
that you mentioned, are they in a similar format as
23
the Bill, in that they are in narrative format, or
24
is there -- are there physical, physical maps of
25
the earlier version?
Because again, there is no
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1
physical map in the Bill, it is a narrative
2
description.
3
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
4
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
There -- they are not in a
5
narrative form, they are like physical maps that
6
you would see like that.
7
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
8
REPRESENTATIVE RICHARDSON:
9
For a follow up.
And can you tell
me approximately how many physical maps earlier
10
version there are in the suite before we got to the
11
final one that is in this Bill, approximately?
12
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
13
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
It is around five, but I
14
mean, we can figure it out, you are more than
15
welcome to look at them.
16
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
17
REPRESENTATIVE RICHARDSON:
And can you tell
18
me if there are one or two or three remarkable
19
items that changed between the first version as you
20
moved through to version five, what were the
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substantive changes, if you can recall?
22
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
23
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
There -- staff by the way
24
informed me that there were three iterations, not
25
around five.
Yes, I mean, there was -- and the
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1
staff testified to this during the committee
2
meeting, I don't know if you got a chance to see
3
it, Representative, but there was a lot of
4
discussion on Osceola County whether we split it.
5
There was a discussion about the flag, which
6
was the northern part of the Osceola County
7
boundary, and then it was all around trying to,
8
according to the Court Order, increase those
9
compactness standards in the districts and only
10
11
those that were affected around it.
So they were just trying, okay, if we did
12
this, what is the -- what is the Reock score, what
13
did it visually look like as opposed to the last
14
iteration.
15
16
17
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Further questions.
Further questions?
Representative Stewart.
REPRESENTATIVE STEWART:
Thank you, Speaker.
18
I just have a couple of questions, and that is when
19
the process is completed and a map is chosen, will
20
that map be forwarded then to the Judge and that
21
map only?
22
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
23
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
I don't understand.
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mean, this is the only map that we are putting
25
forward that would go back to the Judge, if I
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understand your question correctly.
2
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
You are recognized.
3
REPRESENTATIVE STEWART:
Thank you.
My
4
question I guess then would be, you know, there
5
will be -- there has been two maps that I am aware
6
of that were discussed so far.
7
Would -- do you think that the Judge would be
8
interested in hearing that we discussed many
9
options, and that those options would also be
10
forwarded to him before the final map suggestion
11
was given to him?
12
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
13
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
No, I think that that he
14
wants and what he instructed us to do was to fix
15
the map that he invalidated the two districts in
16
and send him back the corrected map, which is what
17
we will do.
18
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
19
back there?
20
Rodriguez, you are next.
21
You guys drinking coffee
What is going on.
Representative
You are recognized.
REPRESENTATIVE RODRIQUEZ:
Thank you,
22
Mr. Speaker, and Representative, Chair Corcoran,
23
thanks for hanging in there.
24
25
I wanted to ask you a question for just
clarification purposes, and this came up I think
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1
during the Joint Meeting where some of the line of
2
questioning was to try to get at with respect to
3
the Tier 1 standards that constrain us in terms of
4
what we can and can't do with District 5.
5
Part of the questioning was getting at the
6
BVAPs or the black voting age population
7
percentage, and I think it was Senator Bradley who
8
asked the question about the legal advice or the
9
legal opinion that we have gotten from House
10
counsel at least, that informs our decision on how
11
we interpret those Tier 1 standards.
12
And I just wanted to ask for clarification
13
purposes, could you state just as clearly as
14
possible with percentages what legal advice are we
15
relying on here in the House in terms of, you know,
16
what we can do about the BVAP percentage?
17
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
18
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
I think that in that, I
19
mean, you have been asking some great questions
20
throughout the committee process, Representative
21
Rodriguez, and I think that was the one that you
22
asked in the Thursday or, the Thursday Joint
23
Meeting, and I think counsel had gone through the
24
whole Tier 1 standards, the Section II vote
25
delusion Section V diminishment.
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And I think what his answer to you, if I
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2
remember correctly, was that there is no magic
3
number.
4
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
We are going to do one
5
more follow up and then we going to take a brief
6
recess to give Representative Corcoran a chance to
7
catch his breath a little bit.
8
9
10
11
So Representative Rodriquez, ask a question
and we will take a little bit of a break after
that.
REPRESENTATIVE RODRIQUEZ:
12
Mr. Chair.
13
keep my question real brief.
14
Thank you,
I think that is well warranted, I will
I believe again Senator Bradley asked a
15
question in which in response I think he got a
16
range from, I believe it was House counsel in terms
17
of what House counsel was advising us that he
18
believed was legally permissible, and I think the
19
range was somewhere between 48.06 or something like
20
that percent to 50 percent was the range that was
21
permissible.
22
Could you clarify again what House counsel has
23
been advising us in terms of informing this process
24
that the black voting age population for example
25
couldn't go below 48.06 percent and still be
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1
defensible?
2
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
3
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
4
stated at all.
Representative Corcoran.
I don't recall that being
I don't remember that line of
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5
question with Representative Bradley.
I don't
6
think that was the case.
7
clear that there wasn't a magic number, and that
8
what was required was to do this functional
9
analysis that looked at a host of criteria to get
I think he made it very
10
to a number.
11
can't remember if it was specifically to that
12
question, but he had mentioned to you, if you go
13
through and you look, and the same analysis that we
14
did in that functional analysis, we matched up with
15
the apportionment one that the Supreme Court did
16
when they looked at one of the Senate Districts.
17
And I think he also on that point, I
But again, you have to do that functional
18
analysis, look at the whole thing and there is, he
19
walked you through the whole point about, you know,
20
it is not a binary number.
21
think to your point, and I might have said it,
22
Representative Rodriquez, is that this Judge said
23
that 48.03 in Congressional District 5 did not
24
retrogress.
25
It is not a range.
I
I did say that, but beyond that I don't think
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there was a discussion other than that you would
2
have to do that analysis, which is an in-depth
3
analysis and that there is no binary number.
4
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Okay.
Members, we are
5
going to take a 15 minute recess.
It is 3:08.
6
Let's call it 3:25.
7
so the House will stand in informal recess until
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Come back at about 3:25.
Exh. J at 00456
And
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8
3:25.
9
(Brief recess taken.)
10
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Members, nobody seemed
11
to get excited during recess.
12
we are back on Q and A. I believe we were on
13
Representative Rodriquez.
14
patience, sir.
15
Thank you for your
You are recognized for a question.
REPRESENTATIVE RODRIQUEZ:
16
Mr. Speaker.
17
question.
18
We are now back and
Thank you,
This is a follow up on the last
And you were kind enough to clarify that there
19
is no magic number that we are relying on for the
20
BVAP percentage, and that instead there is a
21
functional analysis.
22
So I wanted to ask for your confirmation on
23
some of the numbers that we have on the district.
24
And I just want to say that I know that in the
25
Court opinion it said that District 5 has never
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1
been a majority/minority district, but has
2
consistently elected black members, black members
3
of Congress.
4
But the data that we have that was I think
5
provided in committee on the district as drawn,
6
what we are considering right now, is that in 2012,
7
would this district have existed, 69.3 would have
8
voted for President Obama, and in 2010, had that
9
existed, 65.2 would have voted in favor of Alex
10
Sink.
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11
And that I think the other numbers that we
12
have are that it looks like the percentage of the
13
Democratic electorate that is black is over
14
two-thirds, I think it is 65 percent, and then I
15
think it goes up to 68 percent in 2012.
16
So I just wanted to ask you, are those numbers
17
accurate for the map that we are -- we are going to
18
be voting on?
19
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
20
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
Representative Rodriquez,
21
if you were to take -- I am sure you are taking it
22
from the right data, correct?
23
words, I take your word that you have looked at the
24
sheet and you want me to go through each, if you
25
want to I will go through them.
I mean, in other
You will just have
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1
2
3
4
to say it more slowly.
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative
Rodriquez.
REPRESENTATIVE RODRIQUEZ:
Thank you,
5
Representative speaker.
6
Waldman for correcting me, 65 percent is not
7
two-thirds.
8
what I am looking at is, I don't know if you can
9
see it from here, but it is this document that was
10
11
Thank you, Representative
So I need some help with the math, but
provided.
And at 2012, 69.3 percent in favor of Obama,
12
and then in 2010, 65.2 in favor of Sink.
13
the document I am looking at, I think it is page 17
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Exh. J at 00458
And then
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14
of the staff analysis for the percentage of the
15
electorate in '10, the percentage, I am sorry, the
16
Democratic electorate being 65.28 percent.
17
And then referring back to the sheet which I
18
just showed you that shows that in 2012, the
19
percentage of the Democratic electorate being
20
68 percent black.
Are those numbers accurate?
21
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
22
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
23
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
24
REPRESENTATIVE RODRIQUEZ:
25
Mr. Speaker.
You are recognized.
Yes, I believe so.
For a follow up.
Thank you,
So is it fair to say that we have a
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1
district that overwhelmingly performs for Democrats
2
and that black Democrats account for almost
3
two-thirds in 2010, and well over two-thirds of the
4
Democratic electorate in 2012?
5
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
6
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
I think the map that we
7
put before you, looking at those numbers that are a
8
part of the functional analysis, does preserve the
9
Tier 1 and the Voting Rights Act rights maintained
10
by the voters in that district to elect a candidate
11
of their choice through, without, by not
12
diminishing.
13
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
14
REPRESENTATIVE RODRIQUEZ:
Thank you,
15
Mr. Speaker.
And on a different line of
16
questioning.
With respect to the map that we have
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17
here, many of our colleagues asked about District
18
9, and the impact on District 9 and the Hispanic
19
voting age population that would be impacted.
20
You expressed that part of the goal in
21
originally drawing this map was to put the district
22
in a future posture to be a, I don't know if the
23
word is opportunity or access, but Hispanic access
24
seat, and that, you know, the Court basically said
25
that -- the Court and I think all of the analysis
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1
that I have seen is that it may be and it is
2
expected to become a Hispanic opportunity or access
3
seat, but not yet.
4
But I wanted to ask the specific question and
5
you went over in detail on, you know, on all of
6
those aspects, but I wanted to ask, if an analysis
7
has been done on specifically this question, which
8
is the enacted map that we have right now, there is
9
a prediction as to at what point it will be
10
opportunity or access for a Hispanic voting age
11
population, but that would presumably change under
12
the map that we are considering today.
13
Has there been an analysis, and to put it
14
crudely, on how much longer it will take to become
15
a Hispanic opportunity or access seat because of
16
the changes we are making today?
17
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
18
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
19
Representative Corcoran.
When you were going down
this line of questions you might recall,
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20
Representative Rodriquez, that it wasn't even in
21
dispute from any of the parties, the Judge, anyone
22
that this is not a Tier 1 protected district.
23
that analysis was not done.
24
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
25
REPRESENTATIVE RODRIQUEZ:
So
Follow up.
Thank you,
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1
Mr. Speaker.
2
questions I had related to the memorandum dated
3
August 5th, which Representative Richardson so
4
artfully asked a couple of questions on.
5
And I think the last couple of
And the first is that as I see the memorandum,
6
I don't see any instruction to staff to preserve
7
records, to keep records or to refrain from
8
destroying records.
9
staff on retaining and not destroying records?
Was any direction provided to
10
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
11
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
I think I said earlier, I
12
can't remember if I sent that via e-mail or orally,
13
but, I mean, throughout the post ruling we have
14
instructed everyone, members, too, not to destroy
15
any of their documents.
16
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
I would also like to
17
point out, members, it has been a long day already
18
but we are getting into the part where we are
19
asking the same question four or five different
20
ways.
21
would ask you to kind of move on to another area.
22
Representative Corcoran, we will leave it to
Page 103
If the question has already been asked, we
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23
your discretion whether or not you feel like you
24
have answered a question numerous times, but we
25
would like to chart some new ground here.
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2
recognized.
Representative Corcoran.
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
First, let me say,
3
Mr. Speaker, Representative Brodeur has been kind
4
enough to inform me that as much as I am a purist
5
on the rules and function, I have yet to say thank
6
you, Mr. Speaker, for giving me the recognition to
7
speak.
8
do it hereto forward.
9
So I sincerely apologize and I will try to
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
I thought it was just a
10
matter of protest since I asked you to Chair the
11
Select Committee.
12
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
But staff just informed me
13
that it was an e-mail from our House General
14
Counsel that went to staff and every member.
15
should have gotten one, too.
16
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
17
REPRESENTATIVE RODRIQUEZ:
18
Mr. Speaker.
19
e-mail sent?
You
For a follow up.
Thank you,
Could you clarify, when was that
20
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
21
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
22
Do we know the exact date?
We can get that for
23
you, Representative Rodriquez.
24
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
25
REPRESENTATIVE RODRIQUEZ:
Page 104
For a follow up.
Exh. J at 00462
Thank you,
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1
Mr. Speaker.
2
legal opinion as to what, you know, what our
3
recordkeeping requirements are in this
4
circumstance?
5
you know, the process that we went through to
6
create these maps, have we gotten a legal opinion
7
on what our recordkeeping requirement is by law,
8
and if so, what is that opinion?
9
10
And have -- has the House gotten a
With respect to records related to,
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
It wasn't -- the
11
recommendation of legal counsel volitionally, not
12
by law, was to keep everything.
13
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative
14
Rodriquez, you are recognized.
15
REPRESENTATIVE RODRIQUEZ:
Thank you,
16
Mr. Speaker.
So just for clarification purposes,
17
is -- so was the recommendation of counsel that we
18
had no legal requirement to preserve the records,
19
but that we should?
20
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
21
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
I don't have it in front
22
of me, but I believe that was in the opinion by the
23
Court, that what you just said is true.
24
said that, airing on the side of caution we said we
25
are going to keep everything.
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1
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Follow up.
2
REPRESENTATIVE RODRIQUEZ:
Thank you,
3
Mr. Speaker.
4
another question about the memo.
5
paragraph of the memo that we talked about before
6
the second, I guess the first sentence instructs
7
staff to work collaboratively with their
8
counterparts in the Senate.
9
And I just, I also wanted to ask
In the second
And I just wanted to ask if any direction was
10
given to staff to work collaboratively with leaders
11
of the minority caucus?
12
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
13
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
14
Unlike 50 percent and I am up to, but I think I
15
honestly, Representative Rodriquez, I think I went
16
through that whole concept.
17
been treated fairly.
18
opportunity.
19
specific to that, to your point, but I think we
20
have hit that one about 10 times if that is okay,
21
but if you want me to go into more explanation I
22
would be glad to.
23
I think everyone has
I think everyone has had that
Obviously there wasn't anything
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
24
Further questions?
25
question.
Further questions?
Representative Dudley for a
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2
REPRESENTATIVE DUDLEY:
Mr. Speaker.
Thank you,
Representative Corcoran, and I don't
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3
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say this to impugn anybody here, but it is a
4
concern obviously the costs associated with us
5
being here, hundreds of thousands of dollars, maybe
6
millions before it is all over.
7
Have you spent any time looking at and
8
considering penalties, civil or criminal, to
9
address some of the activities that occurred in the
10
process?
11
to 26 of these meetings around the state, and
12
certain individuals would get up and say they drew
13
maps or, you know, were responsible for maps.
14
I am told Representative Clarke-Reed went
And I think the people have the right to know
15
how that happened and who was responsible for doing
16
these things, and that perhaps civil and criminal
17
penalties might apply to that kind of fraudulent
18
conduct.
19
going forward we can try to make sure, assure that
20
the taxpayers are not going to -- or we as an
21
institution don't forget that we had to go through
22
this, because I am sure the taxpayers don't forget
23
this, that we try to rectify this.
24
25
So I am wondering if not now, but maybe
And what plan, if any, do you have to address
that, this major shortcoming that we have had, to
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1
have to come back?
2
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
3
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
4
Representative Dudley, again, in this process the
5
memo that we outlined and we sent out the directive
Page 107
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6
LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
from General Counsel I think in this process we
7
looked at a lot of those things that were
8
mentioned, and in this process we have been very
9
disciplined in all those things that caused, as I
10
said earlier, disgust from the Judge related to the
11
process.
12
related to the other part of your question.
Beyond that I have not heard discussions
13
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
14
REPRESENTATIVE DUDLEY:
Can we be assured
15
going forward that we make this a priority?
16
other words, you know, you have looked at it, you
17
have seen it, it is a sensitive issue right now,
18
but maybe 10 years from now it is not going to as
19
sensitive and we shouldn't have to go through this
20
again 10 years from now or the future Legislature
21
10 years from now.
22
In
So can we be assured that there will be an
23
emphasis put on creating some kind of something to,
24
you know, consequences, accountability for the kind
25
of conduct that occurred as a result in this and us
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being back here and all of this money being spent?
2
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
3
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
4
Hopefully Representative Dudley, with what we have
5
done here, we are talking about a Legislature that
6
is going to be seated in 2022, but hopefully, my
7
hope is that we will be done here today, it will be
8
done well to the point that people after us would
Page 108
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9
10
LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
want to emulate it.
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Further questions?
11
Seeing none, move the Bill to third reading.
12
resolution is on the desk.
13
14
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Questions, questions in
sponsor, further questions?
15
READING CLERK:
16
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
The
Are there amendments?
Bill on the desk, Mr. Speaker.
Is there debate, is
17
there debate on the resolution?
18
President (inaudible), you are recognized to close.
19
Waives close.
20
A VOICE:
21
Seeing none,
As the President moves the adoption
of all in favor, all in favor say yea.
22
(Chorus of yeas.)
23
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Opposed no, show the
24
resolution is adopted.
The Clerk will unlock the
25
machine and the members will be able to vote.
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The
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Clerk will lock the machine and announce the vote.
2
READING CLERK:
109 co-sponsors, Mr. Speaker.
3
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
4
READING CLERK:
5
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Read the next Bill.
None on the desk, Mr. Speaker.
I apologize,
6
Representative Williams, you are recognized for a
7
motion.
8
9
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS:
Mr. Speaker.
Thank you,
I move that the rules be waived to
10
introduce House Resolution 5-A and read it as a
11
first and second time by title.
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SPEAKER WEATHERFORD: Representative Williams
12
13
moves that the rules be waived and introduce HR
14
5-A.
15
all in favor say yea.
Read it the first and second time by title,
16
(Chorus of yeas.)
17
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
18
motion approved.
19
time by title.
Opposed, no.
Read the Bill first and second
20
(Brief recess taken.)
21
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
22
Read the next
resolution.
23
READING CLERK:
24
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
25
Show
None on the desk, Mr. Speaker.
what we are going to do.
Okay, members, here is
Right now it is 3:55.
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We
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are going to come back in, Leader Thurston, an
2
hour, take an hour recess, the Senate is debating
3
the Bill currently.
4
Bill to come over.
5
recess, we will be right back here at 5:00 p.m.
6
We have to wait on the Senate
We are going to take an hour
At that point we will debate hopefully in a
7
structured format the Bill that comes over from the
8
Senate, and we will hopefully be able to pass
9
something out and everything can go home today.
10
That is the plan, we will see you back at
11
5:00 o'clock.
We are in recess.
12
(Brief recess taken.)
13
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
14
The Clerk will unlock
the machine and announce the presence of a quorum.
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15
16
17
LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
READING CLERK: 107 members voting.
is present, Mr. Speaker.
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
18
your seats.
19
do you rise?
20
A quorum
Members, please take
Representative Schenck, what purpose
REPRESENTATIVE SCHENCK:
Sorry, Mr. Speaker, I
21
am a little rusty.
22
Rule 10.12 be waived, that we adopt a special
23
debate procedure for SB 2-A on third reading today.
24
25
To make a motion, to move that
SB 2-A total debate time will not exceed 60
minutes.
The sponsor will explain and close the
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Bill, closing not to exceed five minutes.
2
member may be recognized more than once, and all
3
recognitions will go through the Speaker.
4
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
No
Representative Schenck
5
moves that the rule be waived to adopt the special
6
debate procedures.
7
Objections?
Are there questions?
All in favor signify by saying yea.
8
(Chorus of yeas.)
9
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Opposed, no.
10
special debate procedures adopted.
11
messages on the desk?
12
READING CLERK:
13
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
14
READING CLERK:
Show the
Are there
On the desk, Mr. Speaker.
Read the first message.
The Honorable Will
15
Weatherford, Speaker, I am directed to inform the
16
House of Representatives that the Senate has passed
17
Senate Bill 2-A as amended and request the
Page 111
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18
LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
concurrence of the House, Debbie Brown, Secretary.
19
By Senator Galvano, Senate Bill 2-A, a Bill to
20
be entitled, an act establishing the Congressional
21
Districts of the state.
22
23
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
you are recognized for a motion.
24
25
Representative Corcoran,
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I move to waive the rules and read
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1
Senate Bill 2-A a second time by title.
2
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Corcoran
3
moves the rules be waived to read SB 2-A a second
4
time by title.
5
Any debate?
6
yea.
Is there any debate on the motion?
All those in favor signify by saying
7
(Chorus of yeas.)
8
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
9
10
11
motion is agreed to.
Opposed no.
Show the
Read the Senate Bill a second
time by title.
READING CLERK:
By Senator Galvano, Senate
12
Bill 2-A, a Bill to be entitled an act establishing
13
the Congressional Districts of the state.
14
15
16
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Corcoran,
you are recognized to explain the Senate Bill.
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Members of the Senate Bill
17
is substantively identical to the House Bill.
18
There was one technical change.
19
technical change did was clarify legislative intent
20
on the date of the enactment.
Page 112
Exh. J at 00470
It is -- all the
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21
22
23
LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD: Representative Waldman
for a question.
REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
Thank you,
24
Mr. Speaker.
Could you explain how the enactment
25
date would work under the amendment, please?
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SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
2
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
3
All it does is clarify to ensure that through the
4
2014 cycle, is the existing map.
5
cycle, November 2014 cycle, is the new map that we
6
just drew today.
7
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
8
REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
9
Mr. Speaker.
After the 2014
Representative Waldman.
Thank you,
So does that mean that the Judge's
10
hands are tied at this point, and if the Judge
11
decides to hold something after the 2014 cycle, he
12
can't do that?
13
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
14
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
I think that if you read
15
his opinion he recognizes the legal aspects to
16
doing something prior to November of 2014, but he
17
retains that.
18
retained, but what we are saying is if it is a
19
2014, and the election is in November, it is under
20
the existing map, if not, then it is under the map
21
that we just passed.
We don't effect whatever he has
22
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Waldman.
23
REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
Page 113
Exh. J at 00471
Thank you,
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24
LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
Mr. Speaker. Then aren't we exactly doing what I
25
just asked you we were doing, we are tying his
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1
hands?
We are saying you can't hold a special
2
election that would exceed that 2014 cycle, in
3
November?
4
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
5
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
I think, Representative
6
Waldman he clarified, I think in his opinion he
7
said that that legally isn't feasible.
8
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Waldman.
9
REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
Thank you,
10
Mr. Speaker.
And I did read his opinion and I
11
don't recall seeing him talk about that it wasn't
12
feasible.
13
of it and what could possibly happen.
14
was actually going to wait for the Supervisors of
15
Elections to present a plan to him and let him know
16
if it could be done.
17
he didn't said say it wasn't feasible?
He did talk in terms of the difficulty
But he said
Isn't that what he did, and
18
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
19
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
He did.
Thank you,
20
Mr. Speaker.
He did, Representative Waldman, but
21
again, in order to do that what he discussed about
22
it being very difficult would be the fact that you
23
already have a million absentee ballots out, you
24
have ten's of thousands of ballots that have gone
25
oversees and to our military veterans, and when we
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1
had that committee on Thursday and testimony from
2
the Supervisor of Elections, even after that date
3
someone asked him was it possible to do it in
4
December, and even after that November date, the
5
Supervisor said you would have to change multiple
6
laws, both State and Federally.
7
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
8
REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
9
Mr. Speaker.
For a follow up.
Thank you,
So following your logic of what you
10
just said about these hundreds of thousands of
11
absentee ballots going oversees and all, wouldn't
12
it have been better to have adopted the Thurston
13
amendment that was heard in committee, which only
14
affected three districts which would have meant a
15
whole lot fewer people that would have been
16
affected as opposed to the seven in your plan?
17
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
18
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
You are recognized.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
19
Again, that issue that you raise was not discussed
20
at all by Judge Lewis on whether -- his whole
21
instructions to us were fix 5 and fix 10 which he
22
found invalid and only those districts necessary
23
beyond that.
24
25
We fixed 5, we fixed 10 and only those
districts necessary beyond that.
The Thurston map
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would have again had the same time constraints that
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2
we would have.
It would have just been less local
3
Supervisors impacted.
4
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
For a follow up.
5
REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
Thank you,
6
Mr. Speaker.
So I am looking at page 2 of the
7
Judge's Order on Defendant's motion to amend the
8
judgment.
9
talked about the special elections and his
This was the second and this is where he
10
opportunity to do whatever he -- it is that he
11
could do.
12
And he said in this, and I am looking at one,
13
two, the third paragraph, it says, the
14
Legislature's only obligation is to produce a
15
constitutionally compliant map.
16
Aren't we going further by setting an
17
effective date upon this?
18
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
19
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
You are recognized.
No, I think we are
20
establishing a legislative intent on when we want
21
this map enacted.
22
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
23
REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
24
Mr. Speaker.
25
ordered us to do.
Follow up.
Thank you,
But that is not what the Judge
He just said, produce a map.
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He
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1
didn't say anything about legislative intent or
2
anything like that.
3
with his Order?
4
So aren't we not complying
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD: Representative Corcoran.
Page 116
Exh. J at 00474
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LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
5
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
6
No, I think, Representative Waldman, what this
7
legislative body believes under a separation of
8
powers is that is something that is under our
9
jurisdiction and we are certainly going to preserve
10
and hold that power for the legislative body and
11
not acquiesce or give that to somebody else.
12
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
You are recognized.
13
REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
Thank you,
14
Mr. Speaker.
15
doing anything, first of all, beyond the call of
16
the special session and beyond the call of what the
17
Judge ordered.
18
what the Judge has ordered we run the risk of not
19
complying with his Order, and I don't think anybody
20
here wants to not comply with his Order.
21
Well, I am just very concerned about
And if in fact we are going beyond
So what legal basis do you have to state that
22
we can actually do what you want to do, say when
23
the map is effective?
24
supposed to be effective already.
25
So legal basis are you citing that is going to
In essence the map was
So we blew that.
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protect us from that challenge?
2
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
3
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
You are recognized.
It is the Legislature's
4
prerogative to do that and the Judge still retains,
5
Representative Waldman.
6
to do what you want him to do, he still can.
7
To your point, if he wants
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD: Follow up.
Page 117
Exh. J at 00475
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LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
8
9
REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
Mr. Speaker.
Thank you,
And I don't want to get into debate,
10
I am just trying to find out what legal basis,
11
because the Judge issued an Order and you had -- he
12
is not there now, but you had Mr. Meros here
13
before, you had legal counsel here and of course
14
you have the whole staff behind you.
15
To go beyond the Judge's Order and not
16
complying with the Order potentially leaves us, the
17
Legislature, in contempt of court, and I am looking
18
at this.
19
sentence right there.
20
obligation is to produce a constitutionally
21
compliant map.
He is very clear about it, it is one
The Legislature's only
22
So how did you make that leap from doing that
23
to then telling him, but oh, by the way, it is not
24
effective until, until we say it is effective?
25
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Corcoran.
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CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
2
Representative Waldman, whether it was the original
3
redistricting map, whether it is this redistricting
4
map or whether it is any other Bill that this
5
legislative body passes, they all have an enactment
6
date.
7
constitutionally of the Legislature and we exercise
8
that.
9
10
That is 100 percent within the authority,
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Thurston.
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
Page 118
Exh. J at 00476
Thank you,
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11
Mr. Speaker.
Representative, in light of the fact
12
that this is the only change to the Bill that we
13
sent over, would you be willing to accept a
14
friendly amendment to strike that portion of the
15
Bill?
16
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
17
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
18
This is the Senate Bill that has come over to us.
19
We have not sent our Bill to them.
20
amendment that they did, that this is something
21
they had in their Bill that is coming over here, we
22
are conforming it to our Bill, and you are more
23
than welcome not to concur.
24
message.
25
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
This is an
Not that it is a
Representative Waldman.
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REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
Thank you,
2
Mr. Speaker.
3
that we didn't send the Bill over.
4
saying that is the Bill that we discussed earlier
5
and we spent a good portion of the day on.
6
I think he was saying, he understands
What he was
And so what he is just asking is, could we
7
just amend it at this point, take that provision
8
out, sent it back to the Senate because they are
9
sticking around, we know they have nothing else to
10
do tonight, so that is a great thing.
11
other Bills out there, so this is a wonderful time
12
for it, we don't have to worry about Bills bouncing
13
back and forth.
Page 119
Exh. J at 00477
There are no
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14
Would you accept that, because if I understand
15
correctly, the way you are proposing it with the
16
amendment is potentially the election goes forward
17
with unconstitutional districts that are being
18
voted in?
19
Is that -- so it is a two part question.
The first part is, would you be amenable to
20
the motion?
And the second is essentially what you
21
are saying is if we can't change these for the 2014
22
election, then the voters are going to be voting on
23
unconstitutional districts?
24
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
25
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran.
Representative Waldman, to
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1
your first point in terms of amendment, no, I like
2
the language that the Senate sent over to us and I
3
think it is better language.
4
second part of the question, I think that
5
everything that we have done, including accepting
6
that language from the Senate is constitutional and
7
complies with the Judge's Order.
8
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
9
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
And as far as the
Senator Thurston.
Thank you,
10
Mr. Speaker.
11
said this, but are you making it a known fact that
12
it is the legislative intent that the Judge can do
13
the things that Representative Waldman is saying
14
that we want him to have the authority to do?
15
16
Well, just, because I know you have
Would you agree that that is what the
legislative intent is, notwithstanding the strict
Page 120
Exh. J at 00478
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17
reading of what you have got there?
18
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
19
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
You are recognized.
Leader Thurston, if --
20
legislative intent is our intent.
21
legislative intent to a judicial member.
22
could.
23
can't.
24
25
I can't impute
I wish I
That would be a wonderful state, but I
In terms of our legislative intent, I am
telling you it is our legislative intent.
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He still
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1
retains under the separation of powers, all of the
2
powers that are with him including some of the
3
concerns that Representative Waldman had.
4
As far as we are concerned, our legislative
5
intent is we like the language that has come over
6
from the Senate, we think it is better for the
7
people of Florida, and I am willing to accept it.
8
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
9
Representative Rodriquez.
10
Further questions,
REPRESENTATIVE RODRIQUEZ:
Thank you,
11
Mr. Speaker.
I just following up on these, this
12
line of questioning.
13
the call of the session, which is a separate issue
14
from whether or not the map with the additions that
15
have been placed in the Senate complies with the
16
Court's Order, whether or not it complies with our
17
own call of session which, you know, this session
18
was called and I am quoting here from, you know,
19
the notice that we were given.
Page 121
Specifically with respect to
Exh. J at 00479
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20
The sole and exclusive purpose of
21
reapportioning Florida's Congressional Districts.
22
So could you address the concern that, you know, if
23
passed and waiting into election law, that we could
24
potentially subject ourselves or subject this map
25
to a whole separate legal challenge based on going
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beyond the call of session, whether or not that is
2
a concern or not and why?
3
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
4
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
You are recognized.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
5
One, I think it is 100 percent within the call.
6
And second, Representative Rodriquez, I am getting
7
a little bit confused, and forgive me, because I
8
swear during Q and A Representative Waldman told me
9
that the entire map was thrown out.
I thought that
10
is what he was said and he was quoting from the
11
Judge's opinion.
12
So if the entire map was thrown out and we
13
wrote under Waldman's language, not mine, clearly
14
he said 25 to 27 districts were valid, but if that
15
is his reading of the opinion, that in essence when
16
he invalidated two, invalidated the entire map,
17
part of that entire map was the enactment date.
18
Part of this corrected map that we are sending back
19
to the Judge there is an enactment date.
20
100 percent within the call.
21
22
It is
But it seems to me a little bit, but now you
guys are saying that is not part, that whole map
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23
wasn't thrown out but in Q and A the whole map was
24
thrown out.
25
That part I don't understand.
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Seeing no further
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questions, are there amendments on the desk?
2
READING CLERK:
None on the desk, Mr. Speaker.
3
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Show the Bill rolled
4
over to third reading.
5
you are recognized for a motion.
6
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Representative Corcoran,
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
7
move that the rules be waived to read Senate Bill
8
2-A a third time by title and place it on final
9
passage.
10
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Corcoran
11
moves that the rules be waived to read SB 2-A, a
12
third time by title and place on final passage.
13
All in favor say yea.
14
(Chorus of yeas.)
15
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
16
is agreed to.
17
title.
18
I
Opposed, no.
The motion
Read the Senate Bill a third time by
READING CLERK:
By the Senator Galvano, Senate
19
Bill 2-A, a Bill to be entitled an act to establish
20
the Congressional Districts of the state.
21
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
22
on the Senate Bill?
23
READING CLERK:
24
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
25
Senate Bill?
Are there any amendments
None on the desk, Mr. Speaker.
Is there debate on the
We are in debate.
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Clerk, if we could
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let's start the debate clock.
2
Thurston, you are recognized.
3
REPRESENTATIVE THURSTON:
Representative
Thank you,
4
Mr. Speaker.
5
several occasions it was stated, during Q and A on
6
several occasions it was stated this Bill is just
7
like any other Bill, and that is why we met and
8
decided to take the process that we did.
9
Members, during questioning on
Members, that couldn't be further from the
10
truth.
11
a special unfortunate reason that we are here.
12
Frankly, members, this is a sad day in the day of
13
the Legislature.
14
We are here on special session, and this is
We have a Circuit Court Judge who has found
15
that there was a conspiracy to manipulate and
16
influence the redistricting process.
17
he wrote, to influence and manipulate the
18
redistricting process.
19
A conspiracy,
Now, we would have you believe or some would
20
have you believe that it is just the operatives.
21
Well, members, I work with operatives.
22
with operatives.
23
members who are in charge of the Florida House back
24
when this was done in 2010.
25
giving a lot of leniency when he says that these
You work
You know the strong will of the
I think the Judge is
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1
were just the operatives doing what was done that
2
causes us to be here based on this unconstitutional
3
action.
4
Operatives, ladies and gentlemen, members, do
5
not work on their own.
Members, for 26 weeks we
6
traveled the state, 26 weeks, talking about open
7
and transparent.
8
the Judge has said here, he said that we hear from
9
the public another secretive process.
Open and transparent, and what
So while we
10
are traveling and we are telling them, this is open
11
and secret, the Judge has looked at all of the
12
evidence and he says we hid a secretive process.
13
Secretive and unconstitutional process.
14
You see, members, that is why we think that at
15
the least we should have been invited to the table
16
to start this process.
17
Judge has found and his rulings, you would think
18
that, well, well, when we start this process over,
19
the least we are going to do is start out a process
20
where Democrats and Republicans and anybody else
21
who want to take part in this process.
22
When you take what the
The people for the central Florida so that
23
they can know that their interest is being looked
24
at.
25
know that we are all at this together.
Those people from north Florida, so they can
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going to make this work and we are going to do it
2
fair and impartial, but that is not what was done,
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and that is why we are skeptical.
4
are asking questions.
5
That is why we
That is why we think that it is a amazing that
6
there is no repercussions from anybody that was
7
involved in this process.
8
9
Now, I understand what counsel, what the
Leader said about the fact that his folks thinks
10
that if you are embarrassed in the public that is
11
sufficient, but we think there should be some
12
repercussion.
13
reprimanded for this.
14
be someone referred to the Rules Committee.
15
is right, we think if you referred members to the
16
Rules Committee because they inflated their
17
newsletter, and here we have some unconstitutional
18
activities and nothing, absolutely nothing.
19
didn't think that is correct, members.
20
think that more should be done.
21
We think that somebody should be
We think that there should
That
We
So we do
Now, members, when the Judge says, intentional
22
secretive and unconstitutional, now, what is he
23
talking about?
24
need for secret drop boxes, you tell me.
25
personal e-mails that have been deleted, thumb
Secret drop boxes.
What is the
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drives, millions and millions of dollars to hide
2
what actually happened, and you want to know why we
3
don't trust these maps?
4
want to be at the table, just to have a say-so.
5
You want to know why we
You spent millions and millions of dollars to
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hide what has occurred and you don't think we have
7
the right to say, well, just invite us to the table
8
from the beginning and then we will be okay with
9
it.
Absolutely not, and then thousands and
10
thousands of dollars to be up here, to be going
11
through this process.
12
Now, I read a little differently from what the
13
Judge said about the -- the e-mails.
14
he wrote, there was no legal duty on the part of
15
the Legislature to preserve these records, but you
16
have to wonder why they didn't.
17
these plans was a moral certainty.
18
seem like to me the Judge has said it is just in
19
the course of business, or that it is okay.
20
said everybody knew that there was going to be
21
litigation.
22
What I read
Litigation over
That doesn't
He
I think everybody in this Chamber knew it was
23
going to be litigated, and to erase all of the
24
e-mails, that is why we have a problem with
25
accepting these maps.
That is why we want to be at
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the table at the least.
2
the benefit of all of your resources, but put us at
3
the table, let us be part of it, especially after a
4
scathing opinion like this.
5
You know, we don't have
Yes, members, we are a little concerned here,
6
but we would love to see everyone participate in
7
the process.
8
this is what we would like to see.
Now, we are not at the table, but
Page 127
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We want to see
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this given back to the Judge. We want the Judge to
10
evaluate it, if the Judge has to re-write the maps
11
himself, or if this can the beginning of a process
12
where we have an independent body that may do this
13
without the unconstitutional violation.
14
15
16
17
18
We think that is the right way for the state
of Florida to go.
Thank you, members.
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Rodriquez
in debate.
REPRESENTATIVE RODRIQUEZ:
Thank you,
19
Mr. Speaker.
20
against this motion and against this -- this
21
particular map, and mostly for process reasons.
22
Along with Leader Thurston I rise
I have been asked like many of you maybe from
23
members back, members of my district back home,
24
members of the press, will fair districts be
25
implemented.
And I think the sub text of that is,
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will fair districts be implemented eventually.
2
I am optimistic about that for reasons separate
3
from what we have seen here today.
4
And
And I think the reason for my optimism is that
5
because of the legal challenge which reviewed what
6
happened that got us here, and because of the last
7
few days I think many of us, and I think some
8
members of the public have been educated as to how
9
to do this process right and it hasn't been done
10
right.
The reason for my optimism again is I feel
11
like we have learned a lot about what are those
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things that could get us there and get us to comply
13
with fair districts in terms of how this process
14
should go.
15
I think the memorandum that was circulated on
16
August 5th, suggests some of those things, but
17
again, it is just a memorandum, it is not a
18
proposed statute, it is not a proposed House rule,
19
and it is presumably enforceable by some sort of
20
evidentiary sanction, but that is it, and that is
21
not anything more than we have right now.
22
In terms of how this is very different process
23
of drawing districts should be treated in the
24
Legislature, completely apart from any other type
25
of legislation that we do here or rulemaking, you
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know, things like the identity of the person
2
involved in drawing the map, the criteria used, the
3
sources of data.
4
consider a rule that goes into all of that to
5
require that those things again be presented to us
6
under oath, and perhaps we should consider a rule
7
or a statute about recordkeeping.
8
going out to everyone saying you should keep
9
records again is not enforceable in a way that we
Absolutely, perhaps we should
A memorandum
10
really need it to be to make sure that we are
11
getting the best, A, the best out of it, and also
12
that these records are preserved so that we can
13
prove what happened in the event of a challenge.
14
And the other thing is, I think other members
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have suggested hearings to investigate what is it
16
that happened in the past.
17
learn as a Legislature in terms of how to do this
18
correctly that we haven't done.
19
think that this map that we have before us meets
20
that challenge to fairly implement, to correctly
21
implement fair districts.
22
What is it that we can
Again, I don't
I think we can get there, so what gives me
23
optimism is that we continue to learn what we
24
should do, we haven't done it yet.
25
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Thank you.
Representative Stewart,
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2
in debate.
REPRESENTATIVE STEWART:
Thank you.
This has
3
been to me a very rushed debate and rushed mapping
4
process.
5
deadlines, but we have, we have had until Friday to
6
make this determination, and the first day we spent
7
16 minutes, we have been here for four hours today.
8
9
I understand that we have tight
I think we owe our constituents a longer
review, a consideration and to pass a
10
constitutional map.
11
Judge to redraw the maps.
12
something that we should be doing.
13
objections from the Supervisor of Elections.
14
is going to pay for these elections?
15
front of us has seven Congressional Districts
16
spanning dozens of counties.
17
I don't really think we want a
I think that is
I have heard
Who
The map in
The amendment proposed by Leader Thurston and
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Senator Soto, they show that they were able to do
19
it in -- with only having three counties.
20
addition to the taxpayers' money that we are
21
wasting here today on our rush to judgment on a
22
map, I think that in doing the special session, the
23
cost to the local taxpayers with there map is going
24
to be millions and millions of dollars, and I think
25
that is something we should really take to heart
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2
and pay attention to.
If the Judge has to redraw this map, the
3
Supervisors will probably have less time to get
4
ready to have this election, and it is just doesn't
5
seem fair to me.
6
state, including my constituents and yours, to vote
7
in districts that have been exposed to
8
unconstitutional mapping.
9
rushing, this should be more about democracy, and I
10
11
12
13
We are asking the voters of the
This is not about
thank you for the time.
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Slosberg,
in debate.
REPRESENTATIVE SLOSBERG:
Thank you,
14
Mr. Speaker.
15
fair districts.
16
Republicans, or does fair districts mean fair to
17
Democrats, or does fair districts mean fair to
18
Floridians?
19
20
Members, we are called here today for
Does fair districts mean fair to
We all know we are supposed to be fair to all
Floridians.
So how much input did the Democrats
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have in drawing these maps? I was told in
22
questions and answers that, I don't know what I was
23
told, but I wasn't told yes, I wasn't told no, but
24
like in reality, we know the Democrats had zero
25
input in the people who they represent, and it is
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probably 50 percent or more of the people in the
2
state of Florida.
3
I was told this Bill is like a committee
4
process.
5
the attorneys and why didn't the Chairs come to the
6
Democrats and say, hey, guys, let's sit down and
7
let's figure out a way to draw these maps so they
8
will be fair to the people of the state of Florida?
9
If so, why didn't staff and why didn't
You know, how are you -- how am I sure that
10
this isn't a Democratic bill, this is a Republican
11
Bill, and do you know why I am sure it is a
12
Republican Bill, because not one question was asked
13
by the Republicans to the Chair, not one question.
14
Do you know why?
Because of the fact they
15
were all told, be sheep, don't ask any questions,
16
and it is exactly what happened here.
17
In closing, a lion does not lose sleep over
18
what a sheep thinks.
19
the Judge and let him figure out what is fair to
20
Floridians, because this is not a fair map.
21
22
23
Please give this map back to
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative
Zimmermann, in debate.
REPRESENTATIVE ZIMMERMANN:
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Thank you,
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Mr. speaker. I am opposed to this Bill and the
25
maps that it contains within, because I am truly
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offended that we were not included, that the
2
minority party was not included prior it these maps
3
being drawn.
4
These maps were drawn, they were e-mailed to
5
everyone of us before, the day before the committee
6
ever met.
7
court and one side got to draw up the settlement
8
before the other side was ever allowed to say a
9
word, and then the only conversation that they
I mean, imagine if you were in a divorce
10
could have is, and they would be out numbered, by
11
the way, is do you agree, and that is it.
12
I am also opposed because until, until we
13
adopt a process that is a grid like process where
14
the squares are only governed by the size of the
15
population, and that grid is laid over the state of
16
Florida, until we do that, every district will
17
always be gerrymandered.
18
I ask the Chair, I said, did you look at the
19
party affiliation when you were doing these maps
20
and I trust that he didn't, but that is the first
21
thing that every member of this body looks at, is
22
how many Democrats are there, how many Republicans
23
are there, and that will always gerrymander a
24
district.
25
So I ask that we oppose this Bill.
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Castor
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2
Dentel in debate.
REPRESENTATIVE CASTOR DENTEL:
Thank you,
3
Mr. Speaker.
4
today that the process of redrawing the districts
5
was above board, and I really want to believe it,
6
but the same assurances were given two years ago.
7
And we are only to find out through a legal
8
challenge that the process was indeed rigged.
9
And members, we have been assured
Such behind the scenes collusion violated the
10
Constitution, as well is the public's trust, and
11
makes the voters even more cynical about the people
12
who are elected to this body.
13
changed in this process this time around which
14
would restore the integrity called into the first
15
time around.
16
involve substantive participate for the minority
17
party in redrawing the maps.
18
Nothing really
There was in good faith effort to
Members, the process matters.
The people of
19
Florida deserve a process that is fair and properly
20
executed.
21
special session is about $68,000, but the cost to
22
the citizens and the degree of trust they have lost
23
in us is immeasurable and I can't help but remain
24
sinical as well.
25
The cost to the taxpayers for this
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Lee in
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debate.
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2
REPRESENTATIVE LEE:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
3
Mr. Speaker and members, I want to share a story
4
with you.
5
didn't want to come back to this House.
6
Tallahassee because I really and truly believed in
7
my heart that I could make a difference in pulling
8
this body together, both Democrat and Republican,
9
Conservative and Liberal.
I had all but made my mind up that I
I came in
And I talked it some of
10
you, and I won't call names, from both sides, and a
11
couple of you on the Republican side convinced me,
12
and I won't call any out, because you are not
13
supposed to be encouraging a Democrat to run, but I
14
said I am going to come back and try and make a
15
difference.
16
George Washington said in 1796, he warned in
17
his farewell address to the nation the dangers of
18
political parties.
19
here in this house, but in houses all over the
20
country and in our nation's Capitol.
21
We are seeing it here, not just
Saturday morning at 3:00 a.m. I awakened
22
because I couldn't sleep thinking about what we are
23
doing here, and something told me, I don't know
24
where it was, but it just came to me, study the
25
Roman Empire and what caused the Roman Empire to
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2
fail.
Friends, we are following that same path, and
3
I asked myself, can I, or can any of us do anything
4
about it.
Can we stop this train wreck, and all
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5
Saturday I thought about how can we come together
6
as a body.
7
This country is so torn apart, we get, we dig in on
8
the right, we dig in on the left and nobody wants
9
to budge.
10
How can we come together as a people.
I wake up Sunday morning, and I really believe
11
God was telling me something.
12
my favorite radio, television Pastors is a guy by
13
the name of Charles Stanley, and something came to
14
me and said, turn the television on and see if you
15
can find Stanley, low and behold, there was Charles
16
Stanley, and the message was, opportunities, look
17
for opportunities to do something good.
18
My favorite, one of
He was telling a story about the Good
19
Samaritan, and I thought about that for a second
20
and I thought about what we are doing here.
21
have missed an opportunity.
22
today to my good friend, John Tobia and Matt Gaetz.
23
I was sitting in the cafeteria just before I was to
24
present my Literacy Bill, which all of you
25
supported and I thank you.
We
I was talking earlier
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Tobia and Gaetz said, Lee, we are not going to
2
support your Bill.
I said why, and Matt had a very
3
good, Representative Gaetz had a very good coming.
4
He said, you know, Escambia County has a higher
5
dropout rate than St. Lucie County.
6
have said the heck with you, John, the heck with
7
you, Matt, I got the votes, but I didn't.
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And so I could
And when
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8
I rose that day I reached out to those two brothers
9
and I pleaded with them, I showed them respect and
10
they voted for my Bill.
11
more of in this House.
12
That is what we need to do
Sometimes I am in the cafeteria and we sit
13
there, Democrats and Republicans alike, and we
14
laugh and we joke and I am reminded of a story that
15
Representative Taylor and I was sitting this
16
morning, he was telling me about the coyote and the
17
sheep dog, and every morning the coyote and the
18
sheep dog packed their lunch box and they walked to
19
work together, smiling and talking about their day.
20
The sheep dog gets up in the tree to watch
21
over the sheep, and the coyote prepares to chase
22
the sheep, and they do their thing.
23
the day they pack their lunch and they walk back
24
home as though that day never took place.
25
what I see happen here many times.
At the end of
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Members, I don't know what we can do about
2
what has been done, but I plead with you, let us
3
start looking for opportunities to make this body a
4
better body, this state a better state and this
5
nation a better nation.
6
7
8
9
10
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Berman.
Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE BERMAN:
Mr. Speaker.
Thank you,
Members, let's be real clear about
why we are here today. We are here because the
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11
Leon County Circuit Court found that this
12
Republican dominated Legislature acted in an
13
unconstitutional manner in preparing the maps.
14
This is a serious matter.
It is not simply a
15
minor administrative fix for two districts.
16
this background I am not convinced that the map
17
before the Legislature actually redresses the
18
unconstitutional actions.
19
at the drafter's words was put together over two
20
days by some of the same individuals that drafted
21
the first map.
22
Given
We have a map that taken
No Democrats were consulted or asked to
23
participate in the process, which to me raises a
24
red flag as to the map's partisanship.
25
Democrats had the opportunity to question it in
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committee and on the floor, but it was pretty
2
clearly fait accompli.
3
frame one committee hearing was held which resulted
4
in almost non existent public input.
5
Because of the short time
Significantly, at that committee the
6
Republican committee members voted down a motion to
7
place the witnesses under oath which denied the
8
citizens of Florida accountability.
9
in committee an alternative map was presented by
Interestingly,
10
Leader Thurston and Senator Darren Soto.
11
Soto was constrained by the time frame, but even
12
more significantly, he didn't have access to the
13
tools and various analysis that the legislative
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Senator
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14
15
committee had.
Using his limited resources he crafted what I
16
believe is a preferable map.
17
three Congressional Districts as opposed to seven.
18
I believe that his map would past the diminishment
19
test even though there was a strange argument made
20
using Senatorial maps that it wouldn't.
21
His map only changes
If you look at his map, well over 60 percent
22
of the primary voters are African-American and the
23
district, itself, votes strongly Democratic.
24
fact that one Senator diligently working solo could
25
do what I consider a better map begs the question.
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Is Senate Bill 2-A really the best map that we can
2
submit to the Court?
3
Is this map simply the legislators' attempt to
4
put a with bandaid on a gaping wound once again and
5
act in a partisan manner to protect Republican
6
districts?
7
I sat in this Chamber in 2012, and was
8
repeatedly told that the maps were the most
9
transparent and open ever and that they complied
10
with all constitutional requirements.
11
was filed challenging that assertion, and yes, it
12
dragged on for almost two years, in part because of
13
attempts to keep secret those documents that
14
ultimately showed the unconstitutional actions.
15
16
I feel that I was lied to.
A lawsuit
The citizens of
Florida were lied to, and we need to address this
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17
wrong.
I am not comfortable that map, the Senate
18
map does redress this wrong and will be voting no.
19
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Saunders.
20
REPRESENTATIVE SAUNDERS:
Thank you,
21
Mr. Speaker.
22
opposition to this Bill for a few reasons, but one
23
specific one.
24
25
Mr. Speaker, I will just rise in
Preserving the rights of voters in District 5
to elect a vote, a candidate of their choice,
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1
preserving the rights of African-American and black
2
voters in that district to represent somebody that
3
represents them should not come at the expense of
4
Hispanic districts, Hispanic voters in
5
Congressional District 9.
6
This map as was handed to us shifts away from
7
the ability of Hispanic voters in my area in
8
Osceola County to build up political power, to
9
build up political support to one day represent
10
somebody that really speaks to them in their
11
community and I think that is a wrong.
12
there is a different way to draw this.
13
14
15
16
17
I think
So for that reason and many others I stand in
opposition to this Bill.
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Danish,
in debate.
REPRESENTATIVE DANISH:
Thank you,
18
Mr. Speaker.
What we have done in this process is
19
try to fix a broken leg by using a bandaid.
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As I
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20
have learned by working with maps in the last
21
couple of weeks, that if you make a slight change,
22
move a few precincts it will have a small impact.
23
Move enough and you can change the entire dynamics
24
of a district.
25
However, in this case this was not done.
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Could we take a look at this and say since we did
2
so little of changes that we have actually
3
succeeded in making incumbent protection and that
4
one of the things that has to be looked at at this.
5
In addition I hope we learn from this and from
6
what was done two years ago that maybe we need to
7
in the future by the year 2022, find a better way
8
to do this more transparently and more successfully
9
without having maps that everyone is going to argue
10
11
12
13
about constantly.
Thank you.
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Rangel in
debate.
REPRESENTATIVE RANGEL:
Thank you,
14
Mr. Speaker.
15
session, we are spending taxpayers' money in order
16
to redraw district lines that were
17
unconstitutional.
18
We were brought here in the special
I think now we are seeing that we are not
19
going to make these districts effective until the
20
next election.
21
voters to vote for districts that are
22
unconstitutional.
So now we are knowingly allowing
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23
Lastly we are trying to fix a couple of
24
districts and diminishing other districts like
25
District 9.
We are taking away Hispanic voters
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1
from being able to properly being represented in
2
District 9 here in central Florida, and for this
3
reason I can't support this Bill.
4
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Thank you.
Representative Gwyn
5
Clarke-Reed in debate.
6
in debate from Representative Reed's desk.
7
Representative Clarke-Reed
REPRESENTATIVE CLARKE-REED:
Thank you,
8
Mr. Speaker.
Members, while the Judge specified
9
Districts 5 and 10 were unconstitutional he also
10
understood that moving lines moved people, and that
11
it would have a rippling effect to the surrounding
12
districts.
13
The map that is being presented does not
14
satisfy the needs, satisfy what needs to be done in
15
my opinion.
16
satisfied.
17
the efforts is not how this was supposed to happen.
18
Memos were sent with various directives, but none
19
were sent outlining the minority party's input into
20
this map.
21
The Order of the Judge has not been
No inclusion of the minority party in
I am also concerned that public input was
22
limited or non existent.
You thought it was
23
important to have the public in the initial
24
drawing, why wasn't it important now?
25
dressed one map doesn't allow the Judge to see
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other views of what is possible to solve this
2
issue.
3
4
5
Thank you.
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Stark in
debate.
REPRESENTATIVE STARK:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
6
Representative Corcoran, I would I like to thank
7
you for your intestinal fortitude today.
8
you credit for that.
9
I give
As an old time Poly-Si major, reapportionment
10
and studying it was always a very interesting
11
topic, and, of course, the old days are just not
12
there anymore.
13
Independents today.
14
they want the reapportionment process to be fair,
15
and not to be skewed, and I realize that there has
16
been some effort to do that, but after really
17
looking at the entire process and then as we were
18
getting close and I listened to Representative
19
Waldman's synopsis of the situation, I have to
20
agree with him.
21
The public, we have more and more
We are constantly hearing that
I read what the Judge said as well and I am
22
very concerned that we are doing may not be
23
Constitutional at all.
24
rising in opposition to this.
25
businessman.
So for that reason I am
I am a small
I certainly would are like to be home
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1
running my business and not be doing this, but if
2
we are going to make a quick fix we are just going
3
to be revisiting this again, and like I said, I am
4
voting down on this.
5
6
Thank you.
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Torres,
in debate.
7
REPRESENTATIVE TORRES:
Thank you,
8
Mr. Speaker.
9
mistake, Judge Terry Lewis gave us a task to draw a
10
map.
11
our input.
12
vote no.
13
14
15
I rise in opposition.
Make no
We heard today how this map was drawn without
I hope Judge Lewis throws this map out,
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Pafford
in debate.
REPRESENTATIVE PAFFORD:
Thank you,
16
Mr. Speaker.
17
February 3rd, 2012, then Speaker Cannon took time
18
to ridicule selected members in this Chamber who
19
made the, and I quote, the not so subtle
20
insinuation, frankly, being that there was no way
21
that the Republican majority in this House would
22
follow the law.
23
For those of you who were not here on
Then he smiled and he said he was proud to say
24
that those members were wrong.
25
personally.
I took that rather
I think it is interesting now that the
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1
only person that was wrong was our Former Speaker,
2
Dean Cannon, because we are here today to address
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3
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an issue, an issue that the minority in this
4
Chamber feels it is very, very important.
5
I, too, was a legislative assistant many years
6
ago in this House, and what is very, very important
7
to understand, the minority leans on this House to
8
maintain a presence, and when that is denied you
9
have a minority in this House who continues to be
10
11
disenfranchised as we are today.
What occurred over the last number of days,
12
and I don't believe by the way this is Chair
13
Corcoran's problem, I think there is a much, much
14
greater problem that occurred outside of these
15
walls, and it goes back to some of the operatives.
16
It goes back to many, many people we don't hear
17
about.
18
And these people grab our ear and they
19
basically try to make their, their issues happen.
20
And what doesn't happen in the public spotlight
21
that we have right now, it is like an iceberg,
22
75 percent of what goes on happens outside of what
23
we see as a public process.
24
alone we have spent four days, five days denying an
25
ability to have a part in a process that a Judge
And for that reason
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1
basically said was wrong, that ultimately provided
2
an unconstitutional map for people to vote in
3
Congressional Districts.
4
5
We heard about a process where apparently we
didn't check with the Department of Justice, nor
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did we check with the Division of Elections,
7
because perhaps they would have checked with the
8
Department of Justice, and then today on the floor
9
we have a Senate version that is a little
10
different, but it does sound to me like there may
11
be a problem in terms of what the Judge asked for
12
and what this Chamber is going to provide in a
13
matter of 25 minutes.
14
This 25 minutes could have been on day one,
15
because the map that was dropped in the Senate on
16
August 5th, really was a shell Bill.
17
is a pun there with the use of the word shell, and
18
we sit here today basically having done nothing,
19
most of the members in this Chamber, but pass
20
another map that I feel the Judge is going to kick
21
out, and it is really a shame that we have not
22
taken the time to do this.
23
Perhaps there
I don't believe anybody in the back row has
24
received an invitation to any type of meeting that
25
occurred while we developed these maps, and that is
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1
really unfortunate, and we are ready, we are
2
capable to be part of a process, but when you drop
3
a Bill on a Friday and do nothing over a weekend
4
when you know very, very well that there is more
5
that can be done, this was a dog and pony show.
6
And unfortunately that is what we are going to send
7
back to the Judge on Friday.
8
being so blunt, but after a number of years in this
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So I apologize for
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9
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process you really hope for a day and a time where
10
as Representative Lee said, we will be able to have
11
a position at the table and work with many of my
12
friends in the front rows to develop policy that is
13
really good for Florida.
14
15
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Representative Waldman
in debate.
16
REPRESENTATIVE WALDMAN:
Thank you,
17
Mr. Speaker.
And just so everybody knows, the good
18
news, the good news is I am the last speaker.
19
we are actually, the bad news is I still have got
20
23 and-a-half minutes left to go.
21
was complaining it Representative Thurston I wasn't
22
going to have enough time and I think the longest
23
the I ever spoke was my farewell speech, and what I
24
did is I decide since I still have enough time for
25
this after I am going to do the farewell speech
So
So, you know, I
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also if I can, if I can do that, but I will yield
2
some to Patronis so he can also participate in
3
this.
4
My hope is, of course, that actually that I
5
don't have to come back here for another farewell
6
speech, but I am actually very fearful that that in
7
fact might be an option, because I don't think that
8
this map is legally constitutional.
9
I think that there will be a challenge,
10
whether or not we come back is of course up to the
11
Judge and we will see, and I hope, of course, he
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doesn't do that. I hope he decides to do it or at
13
least have an impartial panel do it.
14
Because the fact is that this map has been
15
tainted from the beginning.
The map was, as we all
16
know now and what the Judge ruled, was drawn to
17
favor Republicans.
18
weren't here back then when the maps were drawn, in
19
fact, Representative Thurston, Leader Thurston was
20
supposed to be the Ranking Member for
21
Reapportionment for the Democrats and everybody
22
talked about it, everybody knew that that is what
23
it was going to be, and then low and behold Speaker
24
Cannon chose not to appoint him, citing a
25
technicality that he didn't know that Leader
Interestingly, for those who
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Thurston was interested in being on that
2
Reapportionment Committee.
3
suspect right from the beginning.
4
So it is kind of
That being said I will tell you this.
And I
5
know that the Judge in this case, Judge Lewis spent
6
long time talking about intent, and what is it.
7
How do you define it?
8
say it, I would say it if I were called to court in
9
the future.
I have to say, and I will
I don't think that Representative
10
Corcoran's intent was drawn to favor or disfavor
11
any party.
12
did that, and nor do I think that Senator Galvano
13
did.
14
question ours, I don't question theirs.
I don't, I don't think you personally
I don't question the staff today, I don't
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I think that, I think you guys probably did a
16
pretty good job of complying with what the Court
17
said you should have done for redistricting, but
18
that being said you still came up with a bad map.
19
I mean, that is the reality.
20
And the reality is you couldn't help it, you
21
couldn't help come up with a bad map, because all
22
you did was try to fix a couple of pieces that you
23
thought is what the Judge said.
24
actually went beyond just those appendages and all.
25
He talked about the weird shapes, he talked about
But the Judge
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1
CD 5 and how it just meandered and what it did.
2
That is the problem.
3
widened it, I mean, you made it much bigger in the
4
middle.
5
You didn't fix that.
You
So maybe to you it looks much more optically
6
pleasant, but you still have that part that goes up
7
right in the beginning, right up at the top that
8
still makes it go all the way from, from the top of
9
Florida down to the middle of Florida.
10
didn't fix that.
11
that you have.
12
So you
So that is, that is a problem
You talked a lot about how, hey, this is
13
better, this one is better, you know, the Court
14
said that he liked 9043.
15
when we were talking about questions, I said, hey,
16
let me, refer me to those sections that you are
17
talking about that the Court says that are so
In fact, I asked you at,
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18
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wonderful on 9043, and for those who weren't paying
19
attention that much, the 9043 was what the House
20
had proposed to the Senate, which was and we
21
acknowledge, was better than what ultimately got
22
passed and what the Senate had.
23
But the Judge, he didn't like that, he didn't
24
think it was great.
In fact, he says the problems
25
that I find in Districts 5 and 10 were not present
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1
and then he goes on, at least to the same degree in
2
the House version.
3
9043, but not as bad as them over there.
4
didn't praise it in this, so we shouldn't be
5
looking at that as a benchmark that that is so
6
wonderful what we did here, 9043.
7
So said it was still bad in
So he
And I know we talk about the legal opinions
8
here, we talk about, we should be listening to
9
House counsel when House counsel tells us how to
10
handle things.
11
same House counsel who told us that what we passed
12
back in 2012, were legally valid or constitutional.
13
So why are we going to place so much trust in what
14
legal counsel has to say today about what an
15
interpretation of the law is.
16
Well, as you will recall, those are
We have to question the BVAP, the black voting
17
age population.
In fact, just so everybody knows,
18
I didn't know any of this stuff until last week
19
until finally he told me I had to come back to work
20
and so I decided, okay, I will read some of this
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stuff, but I didn't even participate in any of this
22
redistricting when it was going on.
23
And so I learned about this.
Well, all of the
24
analysis that Mr. Meros is talking about and that
25
you talked about, Representative Corcoran, today
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about the diminution and all of that, that is
2
absent in the opinion.
3
in that opinion as to what is actually a definition
4
of the diminution such that it would be
5
unconstitutional.
6
There is no determination
So we can't be sitting here and saying, oh,
7
this is bad, that the Soto/Thurston thing is not as
8
good as what you have.
9
shouldn't be looking at that.
10
We don't know and we
Next I have a feeling that of course I talked
11
to you about I think that your amendment today that
12
was on or take up the Senate Bill with the
13
amendment is beyond the call.
14
think it is improper.
15
violation of what the Judge's Order is and I think
16
we have an obligation to legally comply with what
17
the Judge's Order is.
18
That being said, I
I think it is in direct
There is no question that this map is better
19
than what was passed out of this House before.
I
20
would grant you that.
21
problems.
22
story about this guy, this guy who passed away, and
23
he was a miserable guy.
It corrects a bunch of the
But a long time my father told me the
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25
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He was, he was a guy who beat his wife, he
beat his kids, he was terrible, he cheated
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1
everybody in business.
2
to have an advantage over somebody else, and
3
everybody hated him.
4
was nothing good about him.
5
dies and they go and they go to the funeral and, of
6
course, to the eulogy and so the -- I don't want to
7
say whether it was a priest or a rabi, but I don't
8
remember exactly whether he was a Jewish or whether
9
he was a Christian.
10
He did whatever he could do
He was just terrible, there
So one day, one day he
So whatever it was, but asked, is there
11
anybody here who, who would like to give the eulogy
12
for this man, and there is dead silence, nobody,
13
nobody is getting up.
14
about this, somebody he knew went over and figured,
15
you know, somebody has got to eulogize this guy, it
16
is just not right, you can't pass away and be
17
buried and not have a eulogy.
Finally my father told me
18
So the guy et cetera up there and he looks out
19
at everybody and he is just trying to think what in
20
the world he can say about this miserable human
21
being.
22
better than his brother.
23
being said, though this is better than his brother,
24
listen, it is not, it is not what we should be
25
doing.
And he gets up and he says, well, he was
So that being said, that
We really ought to be doing what is proper
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1
and what is in compliance with the Fair Districts
2
Amendment. I urge you to vote this down and with
3
that we have no more debate on this side.
4
you.
5
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
6
debate?
7
are recognized to close.
8
9
Thank
Further debate?
Further
Seeing none, Representative Corcoran, you
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It is an emotional issue obviously, but I do want
10
to take just a moment in time.
I appreciate
11
Representative Waldman's close and having a little
12
joke at the end, to bring back up a little levity
13
into the floor during some of this debate.
14
I will tell you it is out of levity, the irony
15
of this case is that back when I had two knees that
16
worked a few years back I would regularly play
17
basketball with Judge Lewis.
18
morning basketball league, so do other members here
19
who played in that league right across the street
20
at the Baptist Church, and Judge Lewis is a
21
regular.
He plays in the
22
And when I read the opinion and I saw what he
23
had written and I was thinking about the time that
24
I played basketball with him and to anyone here or
25
anyone who does play with Judge Lewis, he really
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does have an excellent 17-foot jump shot, but if he
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2
is covering you, what we all know about Judge Lewis
3
is he fouls like crazy.
4
So I thought the irony of him telling us our
5
map was foul was interesting, and Judge, if you are
6
listening, I say that in gest just because --
7
8
9
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
love you.
We love you, Judge, we
If you are listening.
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
As the Speaker of the
10
Senate President said, Judge Lewis, he was
11
extremely deliberative.
12
in a thorough manner, and to the fact that we
13
didn't even appeal his decision I think says what
14
we really think about Judge Lewis, but I just
15
wanted to give you a little levity.
16
He was, handled the case
As to your comments about the process, you
17
guys had some great comments and I appreciate it, I
18
really do.
19
But I want to, just again, a little history.
20
As I grew up in this process.
I graduated from
21
college and pretty much came to work here, somehow,
22
some way over my entire life I have been affiliated
23
with the process.
24
staffer in the Minority Office I don't happen to
25
remember the number, but it was 42 or less or so,
When I came to work here as a
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1
and in fact it was less, because we didn't have
2
two-thirds.
3
saying.
4
So I understand what you guys are
In fact, even as another historical vantage
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5
point, the members' lounge, I appreciate it,
6
Representative Lee, you mentioning it, but that
7
members' lounge, the reason that members' lounge
8
exists in part, I don't take any credit away from
9
my boss, was I grew up in a minority party and I
10
grew up as you guys sometimes feel disenfranchised,
11
not included, and so when I was Chief of Staff to
12
the incoming Speaker, new Senator Rubio, I strongly
13
suggested in a conversation with him that we ought
14
to have instead of members going out across the
15
street and eating with lobbists or just amongst
16
themselves, what we ought to do is try to have a
17
lounge in this Chamber where Democrats and
18
Republicans can break bread and get to know how
19
many kids you have and understand each other in a
20
much more meaningful level than it currently
21
exists.
22
So the lounge that you are referencing, that
23
is the history of that lounge.
And again, taking
24
no credit from Senator Rubio, I didn't take any
25
criticism for that, but I can tell you if you go
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back and Google that lounge and read the articles
2
that were written when we were, that was the noble
3
goal we were trying to achieve to your point and
4
the articles, one after the other, they called it
5
and we have all eaten in that lounge.
6
it a fancy banquet hall.
7
build a fancy banquet hall and you have eaten in
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They called
We were spending money to
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8
that lounge, and I think all of this in this whole
9
Chamber, Republican and Democrat alike, would say
10
that lounge affords a tremendous opportunity for --
11
for emboldening the relationships and helping us
12
all understand, not only our districts, our
13
parties, our philosophy in a much more greater
14
level that serves the people of Florida very well.
15
The other thing I would say to that is
16
sometimes when we get into debate, and this is an
17
emotional issue, but some of your debate, and I
18
mean this in the best of terms and I have to guard
19
myself like we all do, but to the extent that you
20
stand on this floor and you impugn a personal
21
individual member's character, or you impugn
22
somehow what at the did or what they didn't do
23
without having the requisite knowledge that you
24
would have to have, I would say what we are doing
25
when we do that in these debates is we are not only
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degrading this institution of the House of
2
Representatives, but we are degrading the entire
3
legislative body.
4
And I -- there is no promise of a future which
5
I was unopposed so I, health being an issue,
6
hopefully not, I will serve out my next two years.
7
After that there is no guarantee that I will be a
8
Presiding Officer or have a, Mr. Speaker, can I --
9
I did not know that I was on a clock, but thank you
10
for that, I appreciate the graciousness.
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SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
Representative Waldman,
12
I will be the judge of that.
13
CHAIRMAN CORCORAN:
Thank y'all, but anyway,
14
when you do that, but it not only lifts up the
15
volume of this institution, but it degrades it.
16
And so to the extent that I do come back and if I
17
am honored by the voters of my district and I am
18
able to be a Speaker of this wonderful Chamber, I
19
would tell certainly to the members of my
20
conference and I would encourage the members of the
21
entire body to guard yourself in your -- in your
22
rhetoric.
23
I get it there are emotional issues, but some
24
of the stuff that is said is just, it is unbecoming
25
to the institution.
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The next thing I wanted to say was that it was
2
said that it is a Republican map, and I can tell
3
you that is not the case.
4
legally to Representative Waldman's point, complies
5
with the law.
6
Constitution, it complies with the Florida Voters
7
Rights Act and it complies specifically to the
8
Judge's Order in addressing those issues.
9
This is a map that
It complies with the Florida
And in that context I want to say, thinking
10
about it, so if a Republican map, which it is not,
11
but if a Republican map is one where all of the
12
metrics are better than the plan where 25 of 27
13
districts were found constitutional and even in
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14
those two districts all of the metrics, both visual
15
compactness and on the two tests the Court looked
16
at, ours is much better.
17
and we maintain a 48.03 BVAP which the Court has
18
said a 48.03 BVAP is not retrogression, if that is
19
a Republican map then I am proudly, if that is your
20
definition, we are guilty, but that map complies
21
with the law.
22
If it is A republican map
And I will tell you, understand that law and
23
that history.
Our counsel in that opening meeting
24
gave a tremendous speech.
25
Florida in 2014, the richest most prosperous
We still, we still in
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1
country in the world, we still live in a state
2
where you have entire districts and counties,
3
Alachua County, not a single County Commissioner in
4
Alachua County, an African-American County
5
Commissioner has of been elected.
6
since reconstruction, no County Commissioner has
7
been elected African-American in Marion County.
8
9
In Marion County
And we have the testimony about why the north
south.
The reason it goes north/south and the
10
testimony from the experts who testified in this
11
case talked about the migratory patterns of people
12
who were victims of atrocious racism, and that is
13
the lines they went.
14
we use all of the time in our vernacular, I learned
15
this week stem from the racism that existed in this
16
country historically.
Page 158
And some of the phrases that
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17
When we say, he lives down by the river in a
18
derogatory context, that is a racist context, that
19
is why we have all of those people, the
20
African-Americans who lived along the St. Johns
21
River, they had to because of racism.
22
they live on the other side of the tracks, again,
23
it is the migratory patterns that were testified by
24
an expert that said these are the migratory
25
patterns and they had to live on the other side of
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1
the tracks, and that is why that district is
2
compact and they are communities of interest that
3
go north to south.
4
But if that is Republican map I am proudly and
5
utterly guilty of doing or creating and being a
6
part of a process of a map that is created to
7
rectify that and protect that that doesn't happen
8
moving forward.
9
The other thing I would like to say is that if
10
you look at all of the metrics on this map, and I
11
have talked about it, but the one this was thrown
12
out again on the visual compactness and on the
13
test, in five of the seven districts we changed we
14
were better in visual compactness in all seven, and
15
in five of the seven on both of those tests the
16
Court looked at.
17
On the BVAP, again, our BVAP was better than
18
the map and the language I kept using and I will be
19
even more careful with my words, is spoken of in a
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20
more favorable light in reference to 9043.
21
spoke of that in a favorable light and clearly said
22
it didn't retrogress, and ours is 48.11, theirs was
23
48.03.
24
better.
25
He
So in all of the metrics it has gotten
On every level we have complied with the
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Judge's Order.
2
Constitution and we have complied with Federal law
3
and I can tell you, members, I couldn't be more
4
proud.
5
map and I have no doubts that it will be found
6
Constitutional.
7
We have complied with the
This is a a terrific map.
It is a legal
And before I close I would be remiss if I
8
didn't say when it comes to this process I think
9
that the process was fair.
Whether it was staff
10
reaching out to the minority members or whether it
11
was me reaching out to the minority members,
12
whether it was staff working with Representative
13
Danish, staff working with Senator Soto, staff
14
working with individuals of you who had questions
15
and set up meetings, our Chief of Staff reaching
16
out to your Chief of Staff and saying, what else
17
can we do for you.
18
ability of you guys to have a part in this process.
19
On every level we addressed the
And I would like to say, last thing, in
20
defense our staff, I think we have a tremendous
21
staff and it bears reading because a lot of you
22
might not have read the Order, but I do want you to
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23
know what Judge Lewis said about the staff that
24
helped us in this map.
25
The most compelling evidence in support of the
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1
contention of the Democrats which is the
2
Legislature is the testimony of the staff members
3
who did the bulk of the actual map drawing for the
4
the Legislature.
5
demeanor of Alex Kelly, John Guthrie and Jason
6
Preda at trial and found each of them to be frank,
7
straightforward and credible.
8
were not part of the conspiracy nor directly aware
9
of it, and that significant efforts were made by
I had the ability to judge the
I conclude that they
10
them and their bosses, Speaker Weatherford, to
11
insulate them from direct partisan influence.
12
accept that their motivation in drawing draft maps
13
for consideration of the Legislature was to produce
14
a final map which would comply with all of the
15
requirements of the Fair Districts Amendment as
16
their superiors had directed them.
17
I
And I will just echo Judge Lewis, the map that
18
is before you and the staff that was involved and
19
the process that was involved, I echo, they did
20
everything in compliance with the law, the
21
Constitution, the Voters Right Act.
22
map, members, and I encourage you to vote for it.
23
Thank you.
24
25
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
It is a great
Okay, members, the
question now occurs in final passage for SB 2-A.
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The Clerk will unlock the machine and the members
2
will proceed to vote.
3
Have all members voted?
4
voted?
5
announce the vote.
6
7
8
9
Have all members
The Clerk will lock the machine and
READING CLERK:
Seventy-one yeas, 38 nays,
Mr. Speaker.
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
The Bill passes.
Members, if I could, just for a second, Chair
10
Corcoran, I want to thank you for your efforts.
11
Many of you did not know this, but the same day
12
that we got the order to come back into special
13
session I was actually literally laying on a chair
14
at my dentist office having my wisdom teeth about
15
to be yanked out.
16
And so I literally jumped out of the chair and
17
I got on the phone and I talked to my Chief of
18
Staff and said, what does this mean, and she
19
explained it to me very quickly, I was literally
20
about it go under anesthesia and I called Chair
21
Corcoran and I said, I am about it go under
22
anesthesia.
23
be out of of capacity for about 24 hours, but we
24
are probably going to have to go back into special
25
session and I know that I can count on you to carry
He didn't ask why, but I am going to
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1
the torch, and I also know that this is not a job
2
that anyone wants.
3
He has probably watched what many people
4
before him like myself have gone through.
It is
5
not easy, but for him within three days to get up
6
it speed on this process, to present a map, to
7
spend time with the membership, to spend time with
8
our staff, to understand the legal implications of
9
everything we are doing is an amazing feat, and
10
whether you vote for this map or not I just want
11
you to know, we are all proud of the efforts that
12
you have done for this House.
13
Chairman Corcoran.
Thank you very much,
14
I also want to thank our staff, particularly
15
Jason Preda, Dan Dorby, our counsel, George Meros
16
and Andy Bardos, who worked diligently to make
17
sure, this is a lot of work to do in a very short
18
period of time.
19
us to come into special session in that manner.
20
Frankly it is unprecedented from
I want to thank the members of the Minority
21
Caucus for holding us accountable, for asking good
22
thoughtful questions and engaging with us in
23
debate.
24
Lastly I will just say my dad told me a long
25
time ago that if you don't do something right the
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first time you just try harder and do it right the
2
next time, and I believe that we have done that
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I thought that the next time I would be
3
today.
4
standing in this chair would be handing a Gavel
5
over to a person who I believe is going to be a
6
tremendous Speaker and I am very much looking
7
forward to that day in just about three months from
8
now, Speaker Crisafulli, looking forward to it, but
9
we have all given away our going away speeches, and
10
Jimmy, you are not going to get another one, but I
11
will just wrap up our session and then call Senate
12
President Gaetz as we sine die and say that a
13
famous person once had a quote and he said that
14
faith is taking the first step even when you don't
15
see the whole staircase, and many people in this
16
room have felt the need to allow me to lead you in
17
this Chamber, I have never forgotten that, it has
18
been a tremendous honor and we should all be proud
19
of what we have accomplished, not just today, but
20
over the last two years.
21
wish you God speed and all the luck in the world.
22
Thank you.
23
Speaker Crisafulli, I
And bear with me, I am calling the President,
24
bear with me, one minute.
Hold on one second.
25
President Schenck, you are recognized for a motion.
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2
3
REPRESENTATIVE SCHENCK:
Thank you,
Mr. Speaker, I move to lay HB 1-A on the table.
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
President Schenck moves
4
to lay HB 1-A on the table.
5
(Chorus of yeas.)
Page 164
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All in favor say yea.
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6
LR-9821-HOUSE-8-11-P1
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD: Opposed, no.
7
1-A laid on the table.
8
motion.
9
10
11
Show HB
You are recognized for a
PRESIDENT CRISAFULLI:
Mr. Speaker, I move
that the House do now adjourn sine die.
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
President Crisafulli
12
moves that the House do now adjourn sine die.
13
in favor say yea.
14
(Chorus of yeas.)
15
SPEAKER WEATHERFORD:
16
17
Opposed no.
All
Show the
House is adjourned sine die.
(Whereupon, the proceedings were concluded.)
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
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CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2
3
4
5
I, CLARA C. ROTRUCK, do hereby certify that I
6
was authorized to and did report the foregoing
7
proceedings, and that the transcript, pages 02 through
8
182, is a true and correct record of my stenographic
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notes.
10
11
12
Dated this 14th day of August, 2013, at
Tallahassee, Leon County, Florida.
13
14
____________________________
15
CLARA C. ROTRUCK
16
Court Reporter
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
FOR THE RECORD REPORTING TALLAHASSEE FLORIDA
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