October 21st to November 9, 2009
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In order to protect the identity of all individuals who have submitted correspondence
with regard to the Central Guelph (FI) Accommodation Review and in keeping with the
Municipal Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act, all personal
information and/or identifiers have been severed from all recorded communication
(i.e. e-mails and letters) prior to distribution. The intent or message has not been
changed.
October 21, 2009
Hello,
I recently submitted 2 scenarios that mentioned re-organizing South Guelph regular track children. In
order to better justify that I wanted to see if there were indeed enough regular track children in South
Guelph to fill all 7 schools. To determine this, I used your enrollment spreadsheet and modified it to
only include the South Guelph schools.
The totals are at the bottom of the attached spreadsheet. If my calculations are correct, this means that
in 2017 there will be an average of 415 regular track students for each of the 7 south end schools. I
am certainly no planning expert but, given that some of the schools don’t hold 415 kids, that means
that each of the 7 schools should be reasonably full in 2017.
If we add 200-300 FI kids to these schools, that would bring the average as high as 457.
I thought I should bring this to the attention of the ARC. It isn’t a solution but I think it is an indication
that all 7 schools could be viable regular track or dual track schools at least until the year 2017.
October 21st to November 9, 2009
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October 21st to November 9, 2009
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October 21st to November 9, 2009
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October 23, 2009
In South Guelph Scenario A - the Grade 4 & 5 gifted program moves to Kortright Hills, are
there alternative places for this program that would cut down on the movements for the JK-6
Eng population moving from FAH and better serve the transportation and transition needs of
the gifted students?
Without access to numbers outside of the FI organization, my suggestions would be based on
where the the 6-7-8 program for the Gifted Program is: Waverley an/or other schools with
room that have historically had a high number of identified students (therefore there wouldn't
be need to be bussed).
Response:
At this preliminary stage in the development of scenarios, we are not in a position to provide
this detail about Gifted. Should scenarios that include the move of the Gifted programs be
shortlisted by the ARC, then it would be at this time that this more detailed information on
alternative locations for the program would be available. If you have scenarios involving the
movement of the gifted program(s) to other locations, feel free to submit them for the ARC's
consideration.
October 26, 2009
Hello,
I was hoping to be able to use the Walking Area maps to determine which kids from each
Study Area are able to walk to school and which ones are on the bus. Is there any way that I
can derive this information from what is currently posted?
Thanks,
Response:
Unfortunately, not at this time. The intent behind providing the walking area maps was to just
give a general overview of how far the walking distances are from each school but these maps
do not take into consideration those walking routes that would be considered "unsafe". An
example of an unsafe walking route would be a street without a sidewalk.
Once the ARC has shortlisted the scenarios, this level of detail would be considered by Staff in
the more full analysis of the scenario.
October 26, 2009
To Whom It May Concern,
Why have the grade 7 & 8 students from Priory Park Public School go to Jean Little when the
number of students in Priory are up? Why can't one of the schools on the south side of Stone
Road be converted to a french school? Wouldnt that take the bulk of the students out of John
McCrae? Also, wouldn't that cut down on the busing to John McCrae? Would it not be
easier to add portables to the high school and have the grades 7 & 8 students from the south
end go there? That might be easier for them to adjust when they do go into the high schools.
October 21st to November 9, 2009
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Response:
Currently, we are in the process of receiving new scenarios from the public which include
some of the aspects you have mentioned below. If you would like to submit a scenario to
include any of these aspects, you can do so through the scenarios section on the Centre
Guelph web page. All scenarios will be considered by the Accommodation Review Committee
(ARC).
October 26, 2009
Hello again,
I wanted to also ask if there are SA maps broken down by grade for the FI kids. In order to
exactly duplicate what is done in Waterloo I need to be able to determine which regular track
school has sufficient neighborhood interest at a particular grade level in order to add a class
for that grade.
Knowing which schools FI kids would attend if they were in the regular stream may also be
handy for development of other scenarios as well.
Thanks,
Response:
The level of detail that we have provided on the Centre Guelph web page under Scenario
Workshop Tools, Study Areas, North Guelph French Immersion and South Guelph French
Immersion is all that we have available at this time. These maps list the 2008, 2011 and
2017 enrolments by Study Area, broken down by JK/SK, Grades 1-6 and Grades 7/8. At the
time when the ARC determines which scenarios they want to shortlist, Staff will be pulling
together more detailed grade by grade projections.
At this time, these maps should give you a sense of which areas in Guelph have the highest
concentrations of FI students - ie. Victory area, John McCrae area, Sir Issac Brock area, etc.
October 27, 2009
I have heard that the province is about to announce full time kindergarten phased in over the
next 5 yrs. Since this is well within the planning time period that this accommodation review is
supposed to cover, will the statistics be updated to take this into account? This change could
have a big impact on classroom space – especially for a school like John McCrae with a huge
kindergarten population.
Response:
Unfortunately since the annoucement was just today we have no idea what our plan is for
rolling this initiative out. This is something that will need to be discussed by Staff and
approved by Trustees. At this point it is also difficult to say how this will impact on the review.
Once we are aware of the plan, we will make this clear to the public and especially to those
schools impacted by this review.
October 21st to November 9, 2009
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October 28, 2009
It would have a huge impact on John McCrae in particular since they have so many
kindergarten classes. I think independent of the rollout plans, it will impact the classroom
space required in 2017. I just hate to be thrown into yet another accommodation review
because the plan that comes out doesn’t take into account the additional kindergarten
classrooms required.
October 27, 2009
Data from form "Scenario submission" was received on 10/21/2009 11:49:36 AM.
User submitted scenarios for Central Guelph (FI) Accommodation Review
•
Basic
Scenario Concept
if this is one of the scenario's
"a new site(s) for the grade 7 and 8 FI program as a result of the
consolidation of King George, Laurine Avenue and Tytler public schools
in one regular JK-8 single track (English) school "
•
then how about turning the Tytler P.S. into a 7-8 middle school,
maybe that has already been discussed.
•
If so ,sorry just thinking about what can be done.
•
•
•
•
Detailed
Scenario
•
I dont know how this scenario would work out. But so far, I like
the idea of my daughter to continue going to John McCrea, she is doing
really well in the school, we are within walking distance of the school. We
have an established relationship with the students and teachers there. We
also try to have a positive impact on the school activities by volunteering.
We currently live in the Tytler area, but we could possibly be moved out
of there depending on which scenario is chosen, and we would be
moved to a school that is not within walking distance and is also
considered to be an over populated school. I guess we need either
another F1 school or a F1 Middle School, in the south end. Thankyou for
taking the time to read this.
publication •
_consent
•
true
Response:
Hi thereThank you for submitting a scenario. Unfortunately, the issue with including Tytler PS in any
scenarios is that it is closed and once we have rebuilt King George and consolidated the Tytler
and Laurine students at King George, we will be required to sell Tytler PS.
There are 4 schools in Guelph that would not be an option for consideration in the scenarios
as they are all closed - Brock Rd, College Ave, Laurine and Tytler.
Thanks
October 21st to November 9, 2009
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October 27, 2009
Is Jean Little's 2011 low enrolment considered to be a problem if it's going to rebound by
2017? Would a short term fix be considered, or are they more likely to leave it alone until the
numbers come back up?
Response:
In response to your email, this is more of an opinion question and according to the direction
given by Trustees to Staff, we are to refrain from providing any opinions. At this point in time,
scenarios should address the objectives of the review. We develop 10 year enrolment
projections in order to determine if the scenario is reasonable in the long term.
I apologize for not being able to provide more guidance than this.
October 30, 2009
I had a question about the “Projected SA Enrollments” spreadsheet VS the “School Capacities
and Enrollments” summary. If I total the 2008 SA Enrollments for Sir Isaac Brock I get 326
kids. In the other document it shows as 680 kids for 2008.
Am I missing something or is there an error in the SA Enrollments?
Thanks,
Response:
In order to get the accurate enrolment for Sir Issac Brock for 2008 you need to include SA's
234B & 235D - these 2 SA's are going to be a part of the new Westminster Woods boundary
effective Sept 2010, but are currently part of the Sir Issac Brock boundary.
Please keep in mind that the student enrolments provided for each SA are based on the
number of students that reside within that SA. Therefore, this does not take into consideration
those students that attend schools from "out of area".
Hope this clears things up.
October 30, 2009
To: The Central Guelph (FI) Accommodation Review Committee
The Upper Grand District School Board is a leader when it comes to its delivery of French
Immersion. A strong and growing French immersion program is a positive reflection on our
community and demonstrates diversity and respect for people's choices. French Immersion
parents and students are fortunate to live in a city that not only delivers an excellent French
immersion program, but also is inclusive, offering the program to all individuals.
Further, French Immersion serves a larger purpose than simply those who perceive it to be an
optional, value-added program. French Immersion fills a gap for those with French heritage;
for some, the transfer of French language has diminished sufficiently through the generations
that there is not enough knowledge or support to pass along the language to their children,
October 21st to November 9, 2009
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nor to qualify for attendance at a French Language school. French Immersion programming
fills this generational language transfer gap. The federal government acknowledged the
requirement to address this diminishing language transfer when they extended additional
support in 2003 to boost French as a second language programming.
It is not the intention of the French immersion population to displace the regular track
programming. It is inconceivable that the most viable solution to this accommodation review
would be to limit growth and programming within education. Certainly a more collaborative
solution can be found that will provide all students with equitable access to positive learning
environments without asking any groups to compromise their educational program.
It is essential that the accommodation review committee work collaboratively amongst
themselves to find a solution that works for everyone. In order to achieve this, the diversity of
our communities and the choices that each of us makes for our children's education must first
be respected, and then reconciled.
October 30, 2009
Would it be possible to get a Jean Little walking map added to the Tools web page.
I must be losing my mind because I thought it was there at one point
Response:
Map will be posted on the website.
November 3, 2009
Hello,
How will the recent announcement by the Premier concerning all day JK/SK programs to be
fully implemented by 2015 affect the ARC? We have been trying really hard to ensure that the
scenarios submitted will work with the supplied numbers through until 2017 however we do
not have the numbers that include the 2015 projections with full day JK/SK. Will the review be
paused until the board decides on the implementation of the new program or can we expect
that in 2015 we will be moving schools again?
Thanks
Response:
At this time it is difficult to speculate on how the Early Learning Program (ELP) announcement
will affect the ARC. It is our intention to have as many of the scenarios with Full day
Kindergarten numbers for 2017 available by the next meeting of the ARC on November 18
(2017 is the timeframe we have been using in our planning projections). The ARC will be
discussing the various scenarios using the full day numbers. It may be necessary to hold an
additional public workshop once these new projections are available. There is no plan to
pause the review at this time.
October 30, 2009
Dear Dr. Rogers
I would like to voice a concern arising out of last night's (Oct. 29)ARC meeting.
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A major agenda item was how to address the community concerns sent in writing to
the board, and how to properly record, whether in minutes or in the final report, that
these concerns have been duly heard. Accordingly, a number of community letters
were discussed at some length, foremost being the question of capping FI.
Also included in the batch of correspondence was a strongly stated letter about the
importance of intermediate education and an appeal to keep 7/8 schools. This
letter was dismissed in a matter of seconds as not requiring comment because the
board's position on 7/8 is clear.
As the ARC rep for King George I am aware of the board's position regarding 7/8
schools, however I respectfully submit that concerns about quality and preservation
of 7/8 programming are not a trivial matter. People throughout Guelph, and across
many schools have deeply held views about this. If the ARC process duly
acknowledges the concerns of specific groups who are worried about the effect of
growing FI on their own school boundary, then it equally ought to hear and
acknowledge the legitimate concerns of a broad community about the impact of
accommodation on quality of programming.
The concerns of the FI 7/8 community have not had satisfactory representation in
the ARC process before now. As a new ARC member, I feel some frustration that this
community, which is the first to be displaced, and which is the board's first priority to
accommodate, is the last to join the table, and is facing an uphill task to get its
views recognized by the committee.
We face some particular challenges as representatives of King George: the
community is not as cohesive as many JK-6 schools. Half of the school population
is new students coming in to grade 7; parents of older students generally don't have
the same day-to-day involvement with school matters as parents of JK-6; we have
had to build a parent communication infrastructure from scratch and have been in a
race against deadlines for meetings since the start of the school year.
Nevertheless we are making progress. We intend to actively represent King George
school, and more generally give the whole 7/8 community, current and future, their
full voice in the ARC process. I hope that the dismissive attitude I observed at last
night's meeting is not indicative of the committee's general outlook, and that we can
look forward to serious and respectful discussions of all the issues facing Guelph
students.
November 6, 2009
To the Members of ARC,
Throughout the last year or so we have heard a great deal of conflicting, and concerning
information regarding the French Immersion Programme in Guelph.
Firstly, with regard to finding a home for the grades 7 & 8 French Immersion students, the
main point of concern from our perspective is: what is the best scenario for the bulk of the
students. In our opinion, it should strongly take into account the following factors:
October 21st to November 9, 2009
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moving as few children as possible;
keeping communities together where possible;
cost; and
that the end result makes sense.
•
•
•
One issue we see in some of the scenario’s are cases where only a few children in a school
are being moved to different schools with no real apparent benefit (this includes the majority
of the North Guelph scenarios), and scenarios that divide up a group of children from the
same school or community, distributing them to a variety of schools (such as some of the
South Guelph and North Guelph scenarios). These scenarios do not seem in the children’s or
the community’s best interest and should be modified or removed. It would be ideal if the
entire grade 7 and 8’s could stay together (perhaps unrealistic), but they should be divided in
as few ways as possible.
Another concern we have is with the suggestion that the French Immersion program offered by
the UGDSB should be capped, both in numbers and scope. The fact that the program did not
have a cap was one of the benefits that we saw in the program when we decided to register
our children and we believe it would be a detriment to the programme and for future students
if a cap was imposed. The programme as it stands offers all children in the UGDSB the
opportunity to be bilingual and a greater understanding of the fact that Canada is a bilingual
country. Also if we look at it from a global perspective and for the future of our children,
knowing as many languages as opportunity allows, gives our children many more
opportunities in life. Frankly, in an ideal world, children would be able to go to school and
learn many languages at a young age, French and English are just the ones that make the
most sense in Canada.
Finally, it is not our feeling that the French Immersion Track is attempting to displace the
regular Track programming. It is our belief that the programme is growing because, as our
society matures, more and more people are realizing the value of providing their children with
bilingual opportunities in education (both the social values and the monetary values). We are
realizing the importance of understanding that others are different, and that a language
barrier between two societies does not mean that one is better than the other, just that they are
different.
Whatever the fall out from the last year of work and discussion, I do hope that it is what is best
for all of Guelph!
November 8, 2009
MR. BORDEN,
I sincerley hope this is NOT actually being considered in this community. My daughter has
spent 6.5 years of her young life learning 2 languages in the Upper Grand School system.
It has been difficult and challenging, because my husband and I are english speaking,
however it has been worth it as it gives her, and all her classmates the same advantage later
on when they try to secure career positions for themselves. What a huge bonus knowing 2
languages, our 2 official languiages here in Canada.
October 21st to November 9, 2009
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If it being considered, I beg of you to reconsider this decision as I think it will hurt our children
more than satisfy the one sector of the population that want just english in our schools; which
is discrimatory.
Thank you for your time
Kindest Regards,
November 6, 2009
Mr. Borden
We do not support caps on french immersion. If community schools in english are declining
(such as Victory) that is simply a reflection of the community desire for FI. My daughter gets
bussed for FI because there is no FI community school. I would prefer that she could walk, but
I recognise that is not possible. Similarly if a community majority supports an FI school and
some parents want their kids to attend english track, they can choose to have their kids bussed
to the nearest english school.
This is a bilingual country - anyone who wishes to send their children to French Immersion
should be able to do so.
Response:
Thank you for your input into the Central Guelph Accommodation Review process. Your
message has been forwarded to the Board’s Planning Department. They will ensure that any
confidential details (ie. names, addresses, etc) are omitted prior to sharing your feedback with
the Accommodation Review Committee and posting it on the Central Guelph web page.
If your feedback included a specific question requiring a response from Staff, they will aim to
provide you with a response in a week. Should they not be able to respond within the week,
they will notify you with an expected response date.
Bob Borden,
Chair.
November 8, 2009
Mr. Bob Borden and ARC Members
For the 2009/10 review of
French Immersion Programming , Accommodation review
Upper Grand District School Board
Dear Mr. Borden and Members,
My family and I are opposed to setting enrollment caps on the French Immersion program in
our School Board district. Currently I have one child in French Immersion, Grade 4 and
another who was in the program until Grade 6. As an ELS instructor, I am also keenly aware
of the importance of second language acquisition.
There are a several general reasons why children should not be obstructed from taking
Immersion French:
1. We live in an officially bilingual country.
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2. People with second languages have greater opportunities for employment.
3. Second, third and fourth languages create bridges of intercultural tolerance.
4. Capping a program creates a shortage of an educational service and can lead to
elitism.
5. Capping denies tax payers the right to choose educational options for their children.
More specifically to my own family;
1. We want to maintain our French Canadian heritage,
2. Both our children are academically challenged performers who have benefitted
tremendously from their French education,
3. With a cap, a family such as ours would likely have been denied access to Immersion,
4. And my 15 year old son, while in core high school French now, converses in French
daily and has gone on to study Latin. He helped classmates to communicate in French
on a visit to Montreal.
Please weigh this important decision well from all angles. Some decisions, even poor ones,
can take years to reverse. Children have a finite amount of time in school, so taking away a
French Immersion opportunity from just one generation of students will have a serious echo
effect. Thank you for considering my view point.
Regards,
Response:
Thank you for your input into the Central Guelph Accommodation Review process. Your
message has been forwarded to the Board’s Planning Department. They will ensure that any
confidential details (ie. names, addresses, etc) are omitted prior to sharing your feedback with
the Accommodation Review Committee and posting it on the Central Guelph web page.
If your feedback included a specific question requiring a response from Staff, they will aim to
provide you with a response in a week. Should they not be able to respond within the week,
they will notify you with an expected response date.
R.J. (Bob) Borden,
Trustee, Town of Orangeville and
Chair, Upper Grand District School Board
November 9, 2009
Hello Bob and ARC team,
My family and I are strongly opposed to the suggestion of setting enrollment caps for French
Immersion.
If the UGDSB is offering the FI program, than it should be available to everyone, not just the
lucky ones whose names are randomly selected. This is education not an OLG lottery.
Sincerely,
October 21st to November 9, 2009
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November 9, 2009
To whom it may concern,
My family is from Jessica Lane in the North End and my kids have been going to Edward
Johnson since my oldest daughter started Kindergarten in 2004.
We consider ourselves very much a part of the school community and we definitely want to
stay with Edward Johnson. We also have an excellent rapport with all teaching staff at Edward
Johnson. My children have made good friends there and uprooting them unecessarily would
be a hardship for us. We would have to find new after-school care and the kids would have to
make huge adjustments if they are moved to another school. My son who is in Grade 3 is
finally beginning to be more focussed and is doing well in school. I'm very concerned if we
had to move from Edward Johnson, this would affect my kids very negatively.
We strongly feel that we are a part of Edward Johnson school community and do not want to
move to another school.
Thank you for listening to our concerns.
Sincerely,
November 5, 2009
Hello,
I have developed a spreadsheet* to help me look at the statistics and to do SA reassignments
for developing scenarios. I wanted to provide it for anyone working on the current
accommodation review. Feel free to put a copy on the website if you think it would be useful.
Note that this spreadsheet* can be easily switched to have totals reflect current kindergarten or
full-time kindergarten just by changing one cell. Also it is very easy to look at population
changes at schools and how they compare to capacity and the status quo scenario.
Refer to the help tab for more detailed information.
By the way, let me know if anyone is using this and I will keep you updated. I currently have
an updated version that will highlight any SA schools that you change.
*For the spreadsheet, see “arc study area template.xls”