October 25th to October 26, 2012 In order to protect the identity of all individuals who have submitted correspondence with regard to the
King George JK-8 FI Boundary Review and in keeping with the Municipal Freedom of Information and
Protection of Privacy Act, all personal information and/or identifiers have been severed from all
recorded communication (i.e. e-mails and letters) prior to distribution. The intent or message has not
been changed.
October 25, 2012
I am opposed to both options one and two, as proposed by the Board/committee. The disadvantages
of both options are too great.
Figure out a way to renovate the school or utilize the portables to keep this community and Victory
families together. It is extremely upsetting for me to think about my children attending different
schools, being on different buses etc. How will my eldest child help out with child minding after
school when my youngest starts in JK?
Grade 4 is a terrible time to transition children. This will cause the children a great deal of
unnecessary emotional stress.
Children aged 9 cannot possibly be expected to walk from the Victory area to King George School.
THIS IS A CHILD PROTECTION CONCERN. Parents cannot be expected to walk this distance with
their children. We have jobs and commitments. If this proposal goes through, my child, and
eventually my two children, will be on different buses! How are parents supposed to manage different
bus times and locations?
Also, I have waited almost two years for my daughter to be able to attend the after-school program at
Victory. It is a very popular program. Although there is room in the King George after-school
program now, can you promise me there will be room in 2014 when my daughter is there?
I would rather have my daughter stay at Victory in a portable or a crowded school then switch her to
King George. We live here and are part of the Victory community. The proposed changes would tear
this community and families apart. This is unacceptable.
Lastly, how dare the School Board make this plan knowing full well that King George will be overcapacity in just a few short years. These are people's lives. These are sensitive children, not ping
pong balls. A long term solution needs to be developed.
October 25, 2012
I am writing to express my deep concern about the proposed boundary changes for Victory Public
School. I am a parent of a JK student at Victory, will have another child start in JK there in 2015, and
I am distressed by the short-sighted, exclusionary proposals that have been made by the board. I am
also shocked by the timeline between the public meeting and the vote by the board.
To begin, the two short-listed scenarios for the boundary revision are problematic on several levels.
Scenario 2 suggests that the portion of the current boundaries that is FARTHEST from King George
will walk (or, if they’re lucky, be bussed) after being excluded from Victory. Yet, the walking distances
1 October 25th to October 26, 2012 proposed are laughable. We live off of Woolwich, just south of Speedvale, and my husband walks
downtown to work each day. He is a 40 year old man and over 6 feet tall, and it takes him 20-25
minutes to walk downtown at a brisk pace. These walking requirements would have children as young
as 8 years old walking almost twice as far as that, at a slower pace. It would take them over an hour
to get to school, all while they cross a river and several major intersections. This suggestion is simply
unsafe, irresponsible planning. Moreover, like other concerned Victory parents, I can’t help but notice
Scenario 2 restricts Victory’s boundaries to a fraction of what they once were, favouring families with
the highest property values, but who are actually physically closer to King George than the ones who
will be streamed there.
Scenario 1 removes children from the school at a young, and very crucial time in their academic and
social development. My son is a December baby, and so will be shifted from his home school at 8
years old into a much larger, much farther away school. Friendships will be broken up, mentoring
opportunities lost, relationships with teachers severed. Meanwhile, the english track students will enjoy
a consistent educational experience, while the FI students are sent away. It doesn’t make sense. I am
aware the board needs to fill King George, a school they have invested millions in, but draining a
successful, engaged, neighbourhood school of its students is not the way to go. We decided to live in
that neighbourhood because we wanted a neighbourhood experience for our children. Walking up to
an hour to school, or being driven there everyday was not what we invested in for our kids.
The message of the unusually short time-line to respond to these proposals has not been lost on any
of the parents at Victory: the process is being intentionally hurried, and the answers we need are not
being made available. The public meeting on October 23rd suggested that other scenarios could be
attainable. So, what is the true viability of using portables until 2015 when we have a better sense of
the student numbers, post-full-day-kindergarten? Has a renovation been fully explored? Why cut FI
students off at grade 3? Why not cut FI as well as English track students off at grade 5 when they are
more emotionally mature to handle such a move? Beyond Scenarios 1 through 5 what other creative
ways can we come up with to protect one of Guelph’s historic and thriving community schools? And
most importantly, what happens in 2017 when King George is suddenly over-capacity because they
have drained small, neighbourhood schools of their students? What then? A plan that looks only 3
years ahead is unacceptable. You cannot continue to shuffle kids around and expect that they are
receiving a quality education. They need consistency, a sense of community, and to feel cared for.
This plan achieves none of those directives, and so does a great disservice to our children. They are,
after all, what we’re talking about here.
I urge you to reconsider these scenarios, and take a longer, more detailed look at their ramifications.
Right now, there is a team of dedicated parents putting together proposals for other, more inclusive
scenarios and I ask that you work with us to arrive at a solution that works for everyone.
October 25, 2012
1. Where is our feedback since September 21st -- why has it not been posted online?
2. I come from Kingston where I have never once in many years heard of boundaries for schools
being changed. Why is this such an ongoing issue here in a similar type and size of core city area?
3. We would like to understand exactly where your projected numbers are coming from. They have no
references attached and we would like to see them.
2 October 25th to October 26, 2012 4. We would like to know what the options are regarding adding on to Victory. It is inadequate to say
"just can't do it" when we have watched you do major renos at Laurine and King George. Just lay it
out for us.
5. Why not more portables? Again, please be clear about this potential issue of power supply. The
new larger type portable at Edward Johnson would seem to be a great option.
6. The Victory parking lot could certainly be used for portables and/or renovation footprint if that is a
concern. It would be very easy to accomodate those few teacher spots elsewhere in the park or
neighborhood.
October 25, 2012
On the subject of the King George Boundary review, today I would like to talk specifically about
walkable communities. One of the goals of our city is to have walkable communities. One of the most
significant opportunities for this to be applied is with our children. While I can empathize with the need
to find a way that allows the educational system to serve its students most effectively, I think that the
idea of larger, more consolidated schools will turn its back on the ideal scenario that is in our own
backyards.
From our location, google maps estimates the 900M walk to Victory school to King George to take
an estimated 11 minutes for an adult. Our children, according to google maps, would have a walk of
about 2.5 km. For an adult, this would be an estimated 32 minutes. Considering that children in
grade 4 who will be somewhere between 9 and 10 years old, this will surely be a longer time,
travelling along the major routes and crossing major intersections. I would argue that this is beyond
what the majority of adults would consider a walkable distance, let alone children.
I understand that there is no planned school bus system to address this distance, and depending on
the public transit system could extend the travel time accounting for the bus schedule. Driving will
impact the road system at prime rush hour times, not to mention the financial and environmental
impact of the use of cars and busses, and the schedules of the Guelph workforce who may even need
to start driving to work in order to drop their children off to school. I don't see how any of this fits into
the goal of having a walkable community.
Meanwhile, in our own backyard, there is a school that is renowned for its french immersion program
that is shutting its doors to its neighbours. The goal of having a walkable community is not just the
goal of the citiy's politicians, it is the goal of its inhabitants, something that makes Guelph the place
we have chosen as our home, and we will fight to keep this goal—with all of its many benefits—in
practice.
I urge you to pursue a better way to feed the schools that are nestled in our communities so that they
can continue to nurture their neighbourhoods and keep our communities thriving. Please look at the
numbers beyond the direct cost of education.
Thank you for your time,
3 October 25th to October 26, 2012 October 25, 2012
As a Victory parent of 1 and 2 more in the future I am very concerned about this boundary review. I
understand the need to do something but I don't think the 2 options are realistic or fair for the
community. I paid more for my home to be in this area so that I could send my students to this
school. I pay more property taxes as a result of this and they are going up again (1 of only 2
neighbourhoods in Guelph that are facing this increase).
If approx. 80 students need to move why can't it be the English strand? There are currently 84
students and this would work perfectly. Why disrupt more students and families to keep the school
dual track? It is apparent that the Victory neighbourhood is in more support of a French school than
English based purely on numbers of enrolment in each track. If we have to keep it dual track as a
result of previous agreements made during a boundary review than both tracks should have to
compromise and we should remove the grade 6 students from both strands a year early to attend
Willow and King George. These students are leaving in a year regardless and many schools in other
boards have k-5 schools and would allow all students to attend their local school for JK-5. I am upset
that a 'promise' was made at the last boundary review to keep it dual track. If I knew then that that
was going to mean chopping up the French track I would have been more involved to express my
concerns or to advocate for my children...as I am sure many other parents would have been as well.
Why can't the majority of the school have their say? And based on numbers the majority have more
of an interest in French over English.
In scenario 2 I can see the school from my street but can't send my child to it....in 1214 I will have to
go past Victory to get my grade 1 and JK students 3 km to King George. How does this make any
sense when I live within a 3 minute walk to the school??? In scenario 1 what is the French program
going to look like at Victory? In a dual track school the immersion program is already less than it
would be at a full immersion school. This will be even more 'watered' down when you don't have
junior students to act as reading buddies, morning announcers in French or during assemblies. The
French program at Victory will not survive or benefit from scenario 1 and the boundaries for scenario
2 are not fair for local community members. I urge (and beg) you to please reconsider these 2
options and either remove grade 6, remove English or provide the school with an addition to keep it
as it is!!! If a boundary change is necessary I purpose that the previous options mentioned at the
meeting be reconsidered and the new boundary cut at N of Speedvale and E of Woolwich. Are the
students N of Speedvale not already being bused because they would have to cross the busy street of
Speedvale? On top of this, Victory is not their neighbourhood school...June Ave is. Those E of
Woolwich also have to cross the busy street to get to Victory and are substantially closer to King
George than many of those affected by the scenario 2 boundary changes.
I beg you to please encourage the board to reconsider the options they have presented to the Victory
community!
October 25, 2012
I attended the information session held on Tuesday evening and hope that the messages from the
Victory school community will help redirect the actions of the board in their planning process with
respect to the King George Boundary review. I strongly believe that there are other ways to address
the capacity issues at both King George and Victory. I am a parent of 3 FI children at Victory and
when there were 5 portables on site to accommodate all of our students, though not ideal, it still
worked. It worked for our community because we were still able to walk our children to schooI and
4 October 25th to October 26, 2012 maintain the strong connections there, whether they be with other families or with the school staff.
Going to a community school affords families many opportunities, many of which were mentioned at
Tuesday’s meeting and throughout the accommodation review process from a few years back.
Bottom line for me - if my children are forced to go to another school such as King George for their
junior years, a school which I deem not accessible to our elementary population, I will definitely have
to reconsider the program they are enrolled in versus attending the community school. Victory school
is more to this community than just somewhere our kids spend 6 hours a day. It is a place where
connections are maintained and where kids are afforded many opportunities as they get older in the
school. If you force the junior FI students out of their neighbourhood school, you are breaking down
the confidence that has been built up over the primary years and taking away the desires and goals of
our children - the goals of becoming leaders in their school for the kids with whom they have grown
up in our community. These kids have formed strong bonds outside the classroom and it becomes a
threat to everyone’s quality of life when you take away an integral part of what so many families have
worked hard to achieve. I believe there are viable solutions to housing the increase in Victory’s
student population come 2014. Besides a potential opportunity to build literally onto the school
above the primary wing, the ability to add another hydro service to accommodate more portables on
site cannot be out of the question. I would like to hear the board’s arguments for why either of these
options is not a viable option for this school.
I understand your need to build up the King George population. Surely there are other schools from
which you can take students to fill the King George classrooms while still maintaining the Victory
population. I believe that schools such as Paisley Road will also be over capacity come September
2014 and that it would be perfectly viable to bus students enrolled in the FI program there to King
George. When so many of the Paisley FI kids are already out of their neighbourhood school, why
would you not consider redirecting some of that population as an option in this boundary review
process. I am very interested in obtaining the current and projected enrollment figures for all the
central Guelph schools to see how all the schools will be under pressure with respect to capacity once
full-time kindergarten takes effect in Sept. 2014. I think it would also be beneficial to see where the FI
kids live with respect to their schools so as to minimize the impact of any student relocation. Why is
there not a bigger plan to look at all the central Guelph schools impacted by full-time kindergarten
and work with all the numbers at once to come up with solutions rather than the piecemeal fashion
always taken by the UGDSB to take on one community at a time. You might be able to sell your
potential solutions to capacity issues better if communities knew your bigger plan worked for more
than a year or two. Please consider taking a broader perspective at this issue and start proposing
longer term plans for our schools, with stronger consideration for community needs and desires. This
will ultimately require more time from a planning perspective, but with all the boundary reviews you
will likely have to do over the next year, surely all of this allocated time would be sufficient for the
board to do so.
October 25, 2012
Victory school is more than a school it is a community that must be considered first before projections.
One must consider with scenario 1 that children will not be walking to school due to distance –
5 October 25th to October 26, 2012 affecting health and obesity. Has research of moving a child in grade 4 in FI been considered as this
is a year of transition.
Why change a successful school, not currently in a ‘super school’.
Options supported
1. + size of Victory
2. Grade 6’s move to King George
3. Revise boundaries – north of Speedvale to move as already bused to Victory
Yes, I would change my kids to English if scenario 1 is approved (2 children, currently in SK).
This is a community school and therefore this must be a community decision with parent involvement!
Due to nature of full-time JK/SK impacting class space it must be considered due to the space of
school to not offer this option and let parents make the decision if they want to send to part-time
JK/SK or not live in our community.
A review should also be completed of those children (families) who have 2 residences but principle
residence is not in Victory neighbourhood but attend Victory.
October 25, 2012
I recently attended the information session and would like to provide my comments below.
- Our family is very disappointed with both of the preferred scenarios. We live on Edgehill Dr and
purchased our home 5 years ago specifically because it was within the boundary for Victory Public
School. It will be extremely disappointing news if we are now told our daughter can no longer attend
Victory Public School for the remainder of her primary scholastic time. We live about 3.5 km from
King George and the last thing we are interested in is our daughter having to bus to King George,
when we currently live a few blocks from Victory, our neighbourhood school, and can walk there in 10
mins.
- We currently have our daughter enrolled in French Immersion at Victory. She very much enjoys the
program, but as much as we want her to be a French Immersion student, our family would be faced
with making a very difficult decision of switching her to the English stream. I think it is very unfortunate
that families like ours are being forced to make these decisions which will compromise our children's
education. It is also disappointing to understand that this entire process will very likely have to repeat
itself, as it appears there will be a large quantity of children making the same move from French
Immersion to English, thereby drastically altering all of the current projections.
- I am also concerned how this boundary review will impact the property value of our home. When we
were house searching, we specifically avoided areas in which we would have to bus our children to
school, despite the lower prices of houses in those areas. With this boundary review forcing our house
out of the desirable Victory neighbourhood, we will be facing a much lower property value on our
6 October 25th to October 26, 2012 home. This will result in a very negative impact on our family as we will be faced with the decision of
selling our house and looking for a new home within walking distance to a primary school for our
daughter.
- this process seems to be very rushed and has had very little parent and community input. At the very
least I would like to see this process slowed down to give us, the community, time to present
alternative solutions to the current options. It is rather disheartening that the community has not been
involved from the beginning, but there is still time for you do the right thing and change that.
- As much as I dislike the use of portables, I would much rather see my daughter in a portable at
Victory then being forced to leave her neighbourhood school. In the recent past Victory easily
accommodated up to 400 students through the use of portables. I do not understand why this cannot
be an option in the future.
- I would like to add I was absolutely disgusted with the response of the board when asked the
question what happens in 2017 when King George is projected to be over capacity. The response
was King George is able to have up to 6 portables to accommodate the capacity. It is extremely,
extremely disheartening to think that the board really things the best interests of my child are to leave
her neighbourhood school within walking distance, leave half her friend behind, to be transported to a
relatively large school across town via bus, to be stuck in a portable at that new school. This is
absolutely ridiculous.
- My daughter is currently making use of older children as reading buddies, playground and lunchtime
supervision, and as crossing guards. By removing grades 4,5,6 the younger grades will no longer
have access to these great resources. Very disappointing.
- As an alternative to the plan of moving grades 4,5 and 6 I would like to know if you have
considered a mix of using portables, and only moving grade 6 students. I do believe this would
provide the capacity needed, as well as keeping our children at our neighbourhood school through
Grade 5 at the least.
- Victory just recently went through a boundary change, and now another one. These seem like very
short sighted decisions that are being made. A move needs to be made to move towards a more
sustainable long term decision, without sticking a knife through the middle of our neighbourhood.
Thanks for your time and consideration in reading these comments.
October 25, 2012
I have a question that I would like an email response to.
Is there a mandate as to schools having to provide a certain number of parking spots?
7 October 25th to October 26, 2012 October 26, 2012
I would like a response to this email.
I understand the pressures of school capacity has been an ongoing issue for Victory School. After a
boundary review and change less than two years ago, we are presented with two new options that,
unlike the last change, is proposing to funnel children who are within easy walking distance to their
community school to walk up to 2.4 km to a school in another neighbourhood. The only benefit to
this is to the numbers that some people seem to care so deeply about. It does not benefit the
community the children are leaving, the parents, or the kids themselves.
Since the numbers are so important, can we not alter them in a way that will maintain the
cohesiveness to our community? When I way a child, elementary school went to Grade 5, and middle
school was 6, 7, and 8. What about changing Victory to a JK to 5 school? The oldest kids go to their
respective middle schools for three years, not two, the children in regular track and French immersion
stay together and graduate together, the FI kids are 2 years older making the walk to King George
less onerous, and it keeps siblings together that much longer.
Before you say the numbers are still too high, I must point out we had 7portables two years ago. I
understand that there have been changes to electrical standards/guidelines, but we are not talking
about reinstating all the previous portables, just one. And just long enough to examine a pla
n to renovate the school.
This school has been standing and serving this community for almost one hundred years. As it
continues to serve, this issue of capacity will keep coming up. This is why a serious examination of
renovating the kindergarten wing needs to be addressed. In the meantime, would not moving the
upper grade of both tracks and one more portable relieve the pressure the numbers are under?
October 26, 2012
Just to let you know, if grades 4 to 6 FI are moved, our child will most likely move to the regular track
to keep her in our community school.
8