Transcript: interview with Steve Vesperman
Transcript of the radio interview conducted by Ross Greenwood, 2GB radio host, with ATO deputy
commissioner, Steve Vesperman, on 2GB Sunday Business, 2 February 2014.
Participants:
Ross Greenwood – 2GB radio host
Steve Vesperman – ATO Deputy Commissioner of Small Business and Individual Taxpayers
Time: 8 minutes 21 seconds.
Ross Greenwood
Welcome back to Sunday Business. I don’t know about you but if you’re in a small or medium-size business,
the word ‘tax office’ can often send a shudder down your spine. The reason is because clearly you have tax
obligations, you have BAS statements, you have group tax, you clearly have all of those superannuation
obligations that you have got to meet. And the tax office will watch you and follow you. The other thing that
I have found is that through the tax office portal on their website it’s so much easier now to keep up to date.
You know where you are, you can do it relatively quickly if you’ve kept relatively good books and as a result
each quarter you can keep up to date and so your cash flow doesn’t get behind. But what we do know is still,
even today, that the tax office is clearly one of the most, I guess it’s probably the organisation, even more
perhaps than banks, that send businesses broke. And the reason for that is if you fall behind with the tax
obligations – guess what – they’re the creditor and they will take action to try and recover that tax debt.
However, they do have a lenient side and in the past through government initiatives as well they have cut
business slack knowing that times are tough. So what about now? Let’s go to Steve Vesperman, now he is
the office of the office of the Deputy Commissioner of small business and individual taxpayers at the
Australian Tax Office. He’s on the line right now, many thanks for your time Steve.
Steve Vesperman
Thanks Ross.
Ross Greenwood
Look, here’s the thing; I make that observation about small businesses not meeting their tax obligations, we
know some small businesses are lax at this and we know other simply run into cash flow problems and
decide they’re going to try and use the tax office as a bit of a bank. From the tax office’s point of view, I
mean, how lenient can you be when businesses do strike those cash flow problems?
Steve Vesperman
We recognise Ross that the role of the small business sector is quite important in contributing to the overall
health of the economy and we’re absolutely determined to support small business as much as we can for
those who are trying to do the right thing and maintain a level playing field for all. So the key…
Ross Greenwood
And go to that second point there, if I can pick you up there. That is actually the point isn’t it? The level
playing field for all is vital in all of this.
Steve Vesperman
That’s the absolute key because if everyone recognises that they’re contributing their fair share of tax and
that there is no competitive advantage because people are not meeting their tax obligations then that level
playing field is so important for the whole small business community.
Ross Greenwood
But you’ve also tried to test this, to stress test it to a certain extent. You’ve done research of the small and
medium-size businesses around the place to try and figure out whether the people are happy to comply with
those laws or not.
Steve Vesperman
And, by and large, the majority of people are very keen to ensure that they’re meeting their obligations and
our role…
Ross: So it’s not just the majority, it’s the vast majority of people?
Steve Vesperman
Absolutely the vast majority and it’s important that we continue to play that role in supporting the vast
majority who are keen to do the right thing, but recognising that there is a need to ensure our compliance
programs are targeting those who are not doing the right thing.
Ross Greenwood
I also made mention of your website and the portal and some of the new tools that the tax office has put in.
Almost the online age, I think, has made it easier for business to try and keep tabs, not only of their own
banking but also of their own cash flow and therefore of their obligations to the tax office. You’ve put an
awful lot of work into that haven’t you?
Steve Vesperman
We have invested quite a bit actually to ensure that we are embracing new technology to deliver all sorts of
services to the small business community. So for example, we now have a small business assist tool which, as
you say, is on the website. It’s also available through our new ATO mobile app, which has a dedicated small
business section. We’ve got a series of You Tube videos and webinars which talk about starting your business
right through to managing cash flow to meeting your BAS obligations. We have the online payment
arrangement calculator and our online business viability support tool and also we now have an after-hours
service for small business. So we’re continuing to look for various opportunities to provide that support to
small business community.
Ross Greenwood
There’s one interesting thing and that is – do you know how at the bottom of some of the tax office forms,
once you’ve completed your transaction with the tax office, maybe filling out your BAS statement or
something along those lines, you always then ask how long did it take you to fill this out? I mean, do you get
varying answers to that or is it relatively short amounts of time you’re discovering from businesses large and
small?
Steve Vesperman
Well, we do get varying answers because sometimes people interpret that as ‘how long has it taken to
complete the form’ versus how long it’s taken actually to compile all the information. To actually then
complete the form, so it is quite variable and it’s difficult for us to analyse exactly how long it does take in
terms of completing an activity statement. Of course we recognise simple businesses can complete it quite
quickly, more complex businesses take more time and it also depends on the degree of technology one is
using in terms of running a business.
Ross Greenwood
Go back to where we started – the ability for the tax office to cut slack when businesses are doing it tough. I
mean, you know, in terms of being in this particular area of the tax office – is it one of these things where
the mandate comes to you from government saying, look cut a bit of slack to small business, we’re trying to
make certain that not too many of them fall over? Or is it a mandate that comes down to you that really
comes from the tax office within saying – we know there’s a bit of stress out there, we are going to try and
create schemes or provide assistance for businesses to keep them afloat so that we give them a little extra
time to pay those obligations?”
Steve Vesperman
Yeah it’s really the latter Ross. It's about how do we manage the tax system to get the best outcomes for
everyone and the messages we are giving is that the earlier people contact us the more we’re able to assist.
My experience is been the longer you delay in contacting us then the problem gets much larger and much
more difficult to resolve. So the messages we’re getting out there today as part of this marketing is to ensure
businesses contact us as early as possible if they’re struggling in meeting their tax obligations.
Ross Greenwood
Because there’s one other part of this also, and that is that the last thing that any Australian taxpayer, be
they a salaried worker or a business that’s paying their taxes, what they don’t want is businesses that are in
stress using the tax office effectively as a bank, which I described earlier.
Steve Vesperman
That’s exactly right and that’s the level playing field because if you’ve got people not meeting their
obligations, they are operating at a competitive advantage and we can’t afford that to happen because the
whole economy requires people to be doing the right thing; not only in regard to their tax obligations but in
regard to all of their other obligations. So it is important that trade payments are kept up to date and also
tax obligations are kept up to date as well.
Ross Greenwood
One thing you have said is that for those who might struggle with their cash flow, even though they might
not have the money there and then to pay that BAS payment that might be due on a quarterly basis or a
monthly basis; you have actually said, look, at least put the BAS statement in and contact us so then at least
we understand where you’re up to. If you just forget to put the BAS statement in for two or three months,
ultimately we’re going to come knocking on your door and then there’ll be more difficulty in trying to work it
out.
Steve Vesperman
And that’s where the problem is much bigger to resolve. So it is important to continue to lodge activity
statements with the amount that’s owing on the statement. But the other important thing here Ross is that
we tailor our response based on the circumstances, so it’s not one size fits all. It’s about looking at the
particular financial position of the taxpayer, the circumstances that they are in and also understanding their
particular cash flow going forward and then tailoring a payment arrangement accordingly. And that
conversation is best had as early as possible and of course then that generates a lot of good will and also
generates a compliant history for that taxpayer, which then we take into account in further discussions and
negotiations.
Ross Greenwood
I got to say ‘good to talk to you’ because it's one of these things that I think trying to get this information out
is vital for businesses large, small and medium to know at least to have a go and to make certain you’re
staying in contact with the tax office, just as you should with any potential creditor as well. Steve Vesperman
is the Deputy Commissioner, Small Business and for Individual Taxpayers from the Australian Tax Office and
Steve we appreciate your time here on Sunday Business.
Steve Vesperman
Thanks for your assistance Ross.