Love and Logic
Jim Fay and Charles Fay, Ph.D.
Presented by- Aimee Goodson Herbert
Counselor
Kay Granger Elementary
www.loveandlogic.com
“There will never be enough
rewards or consequences to
get tough kids to want to
behave and learn if we are
not first developing
relationships.”
-Charles Fay
Philosophy of Love and Logic
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Choice and freedom to make mistakes.
Adult demonstrates empathy and
compassion.
Child takes responsibility of his/her
actions.
Child learns from the consequences of
his/her mistake.
“Be involved in your kids education.”
(We want you to hover them and
punish them for bad grades.)
“We would like you to provide a
warm, loving, supportive home for
your child to go home to. One
where they have feel a sense of
purpose and belonging through
jobs, roles, and responsibilities they
fulfill in the family.”
Parenting Styles
Helicopter
Drill Sergeant
Consultant
Helicopter
As child sends the SOS flare,
helicopter parents are ready and
hovering nearby to swoop in and
shield them from teachers,
playmates, and peers.
Message sent“You can’t help yourself. I have to
do it for you.”
Why is this not good?
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UNEQUIPPED for life
Learning opportunities STOLE from
them.
In order to grow children must learn
from their mistakes
The REAL WORLD does not run on
the bail-out principal.
Drill Sergeant
Commands
Message Sent“You can’t think. I have to
think for you.”
Why is this not good?
Children:
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Become DEPENDENT on their
parents for the answers
Fall into PEER PRESSURE more easily
because they are used to
being told what to do
Do not learn how to make decisionsopportunity to make mistakes and see
natural consequences arise is robbed from
them.
Become followers …
as they have been taught
Laissez-faire parents:
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Decide that children
should raise themselves
Believe that they should be
their child’s friend
Feel guilty and allow them to run
free
Why is this not good?
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Children need rules and
consequences to learn from
Children are not adults
and can not self-regulate
Parents are parents, not friends
Consultant
Shares alternatives
Message sent“You are capable and can
make wise decisions. You
are responsible.”
Consultant
Modeling
Focus is relationship instead
of task achievement
Ask questions
Stay Calm
Choices and natural
consequences.
Love and Logic
“Love” allows kids to grow through
their mistakes.
“Logic” allows them to live with
the consequences of their
choices.
“Responsibility cannot be
taught, it must be
caught.”
- Jim and Charles Fay
“I am sure you will
remember on your own,
but if you don’t, you’ll
sure learn from the
experience.”
Misbehaving
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Results from the child taking the
only choice available to them in
order to gain some control.
Can lead to power struggles.
Can be eliminated or maintained
through choices.
Misbehavior Cycle
Child feels
low
self-concept
Adult shows
Anger or
frustration
Misbehavior
5 Questions: Is Love and Logic
for you?
1.
2.
3.
4.
Think of all the things you have
tried in the past.
Think of all the things the teachers
have tried in the past.
Are any of these showing longterm results?
Can you think of anything else
that makes sense that we could
try?
If everything else that
makes sense has already
been tried, maybe it’s
time to try something that
doesn’t appear to make
sense.
Guide Child to Solve the Problem
5 Steps
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Show Empathy- “You must feel
sad.”
Send Power Message- “What will
you do about it?”
Offer Choices- “Would you like to
hear what your sister tried?”
Have child State Consequences“How will that work?”
Allow child to Solve the Problem
Power Struggle?
Neutralize it! Go Brain Dead!
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You don’t love me anymore
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It is not fair
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“I know…”
Dad wouldn’t do that
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“Mmmm…”
You don’t care
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“Maybe so…”
You love her more than me
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“I love you too much to argue”
“Maybe so…”
I am going to run away!”
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“I will love you wherever you live.”
Empathy
Adults must demonstrate a sincere and
empathetic response to child’s misbehavior.
One-liners:
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This must really hurt.
This is so sad.
That is really hard
I am sorry you feel that way.
I feel bad for you.
Bummer
It must be hard to feel so frustrated.
I will love you wherever you live.
I love you too much to argue.
I argue between 5-5:30 am.
Let empathy and consequences
do the teaching
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NOT sarcastic or condescending
Keep it short, sweet and repetitive.
Express your empathy before
your anger or a consequence
Delaying your consequence
gives you time to think
Use less words….lectures don’t work
Power Messages
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What are you going to do about it?
Have you come up with anything so
far?
I am here to help. Just let me know
what you decide to do about it.
Choices
Give choices:
 If child does not choose, be prepared to choose
yourself
 Be sure to pick choices you can live with
 Allow the child to live with the consequences
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Children must control the problem. If they don’t,
you could:
Steal kids’ opportunities to learn
Become overwhelmed with raising kids
Have frequent arguments with your children - Ex: dinner
time
Ownership of the Problem
Who’s problem is it?
 Am I upset because he’s upset?
 What happens to me personally?
 Am I twisting the problem to make it
mine?
How to determine when
it is not our problem…
What is going to happen to me if
that problem doesn’t get solved?
If your answer is nothing, then it is
the child’s problem.
Allowing children to own the problem
allows for them to find ways to
solve their problem.
“In today’s world, we don’t
want our kids to feel
struggle. Why? ALLOW kids
to struggle. Don’t steal that
gift. Help them cope with
challenges where they have
to learn.”
-Charles Fay
Choices- Phrasing
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Would you rather ______or______?
What would be best for you:
______or______?
Feel free to________ or ________.
You can either ______or_______.
Opportunity for Thinking and
Decision-Making
Fighting Words
 “Get to work now!”
Thinking Words
 “Feel free to go out as soon as
you have cleaned your room.”
OPTIONS HELP REMOVE POWER STRUGGLES
“Lectures don’t work;
kids don’t learn through
lectures.”
-Charles Fay
We would rather they
THINK than FIGHT.
-Jim and Charles Fay
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“Garbage”: Training you to ignore
my words through nagging and
lectures. Fighting invites
disobedience.
“Gold”: Teaching to you listen to my
words. Get them THINKING!
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Describe what you are going to do or
allow instead of telling THEM what to
do.
 “Garbage”:
YOU WILL…
 “Gold”: I WILL…
 This is how I am going to do
things. You might want to
pay attention.
“Times can be real tough
and you have the
opportunity to learn from
them. If anyone can cope
with them, I bet you can.”
“Kids learn better from what
they tell THEMSELVES.”
-Jim and Charles Fay
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“You are not going to talk to me
that way!”
“I will be glad to discuss this with
you as soon as the arguing stops.”
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“Would you rather carry your coat
or wear it?”
“If I have told you once, I have told
you a thousand times! Get that coat
on!”
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“Told you not to spend all your
money on toys that just break!”
“Ooooh, you are out of money?
Don’t worry, allowances come on
Saturday.”
“Get your clothes on……”
“Time to get your clothes on!”
“How many times do I have
to tell you to get your clothes
on! We are going to be late!”
“Feel free to put your clothes on in the
privacy of your room or in the car on the
way to school.”
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“Would you rather play nicely in the
living room or noisy in your room?”
“SSSHHH! Be quiet kids or you will
go to your room! Adam is about to
sing!”
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“You can either wash your clothes
or spend your allowance to have the
cleaners do it.”
“I am NOT picking your clothes.”
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“You need to start respecting me.”
“I will be happy to do nice things for
you as soon as I feel respected and
helped.”
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“Dinner is served until 7pm.”
“Come to dinner. Hurry up! Get in
here.”
“Feel free to enjoy your next meal
with the family as soon as the yard is
mowed.”
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“Don’t you dare raise your voice at
me.”
“I will listen to your voice when it is
calm like mine.”
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“You get to keep the toys that are
picked up.”
“Pick up your toys, now.”
“Yes, you may watch T.V. when your
toys are picked up.”
“Love you too much to argue.”
 “So, what did I say?”
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Charles Fay believes that the fastest
way to put a teenager in danger is
to let them drive for free.
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“Hope you can drive one day. In this
family, the only people who can afford
it get to drive.”
Follow Through
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Now, you have to keep your word.
It might be difficult.
Do NOT show your disappointment
or anger at their poor decisionmaking.
Remember, the consequence should
speak for itself.
Dream World
“Thanks, Dad, I feel a lot more secure
now that I know you mean what you
say. I appreciate your loving me
enough to set limits.”
Let Consequences and
Empathy do the Teaching
Consequences allow:
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Child to be involved in the decision
Child to hurt from the inside out
Child to develop a new plan of
reacting
Parent to be friendly and helpful
Child to see adult modeling problemsolving techniques
Child to learn about real world
consequences
“Kids need to think
HARDER about their
problems than the adults
around them.”
-Charles Fay
Punishment vs. Consequence
Punishments allow:
 Adult to make decision
 Child is hurt from the outside in
 Child to pay for his past deed
 Adult to display anger
 Child to feel the imposition of power
 Child to learn about the imposition of
power
Child Chooses Consequence
“What are you going to do about
it?”
“How do you plan to solve the
problem?”
The Teaching Value of a
Consequence
You will destroy the teaching value if
you:
 Say, “This will teach you a lesson.”
 Display anger
 Explain the value of the
consequence
 Threaten
 Talk too much
 Give in!
Immediate Consequence
“Looks like today you decided to wait until we get in the car to
eat your breakfast.”
“It’s sad that you wrecked your car. Looks like you won’t be
driving until the damage is paid for.”
“I’m sure glad you’re home. Why don’t you stick around
tomorrow night so I don’t have to worry about you.”
“Looks like you have decided to do your own laundry this
weekend. Let me know if you need me to show you how.”
“The way you two fight is really taking some of my happiness
away. Feel free to come out of your rooms when you are
pleasant to be around.”
Delayed Consequence
When you are too angry or frustrated to use
empathy- DELAY THE CONSEQUENCE!
Delayed consequences:
 Child has to do more thinking about it than we do.
Child owns the problem.
 We have time to think about an appropriate
consequence that is reasonable.
 There is less chance of blowing up and making a
threat that you can’t back up.
Delayed Consequence
“I’m not sure what I’m going to do. I’ll let you
know after dinner.”
“This is so sad. I am going to have to do
something about this. But not now, later.
Try not to worry about it.”
“I am too angry right now. I make better
decisions when I am calm.”
“If a child causes a
problems, it should be NO
problem for the adult; but
a BIG problem for the
child.”
-Charles Fay
TRAINING SESSIONS
for building responsibility
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Give the child a task he can handle
Hope the child “blows” it
Let equal parts of empathy and
consequence do the teaching
Give the same task again
STEP 1
Give the child a task he can handle
2. Hope the child blows it?
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Teaches a real world lesson
Helps children find new solutions
Gives children an opportunity
to fail in a safe environment
3. Let empathy and consequences
do the talking . . .
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Be empathetic before you share the bad news
Empathy builds relationships
Children must learn that mistakes hurt them When the adult gets angry the message gets
lost
Children need to attend to how to make better
choices, not to their parents anger
Consequences allow the child to “own” the
problem
4. Have them do the same task again
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Children learn from their mistakes
Communicates to children
that you trust them
Says, “You are capable”
Let them fail . . .
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Gives them a chance to learn
Helps them to understand that
every action has a consequence,
both good and bad
Learns the lesson of decision
making early so that harder
decisions are easier later
Learns the skills of decision making
and problem solving
Learning at a time when it
is an affordable price
Little kids….little problems
Big kids….bigger problems
Mean what you say, say what you
mean
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Consistency is key
If you don’t follow
through your child
takes on the “lottery”
mentality
If it is new, your child
will test you
Sameness= LOVE
The message you are
sending:
I love you enough to create
a same and predictable
environment.
-Charles Fay
Primary focus of Love and Logic
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Is NOT to make kids behave and
get good grades.
Focus is on how to raise good
PEOPLE, not people who LOOK
GOOD. It is not about what they
PRODUCE.
Primary focus of Love and Logic
“The primary focus of parenting
with Love and Logic is to
dramatically increase the odds
that kids will make good and
healthy decisions when NO ONE
is making them do it.”
-Charles Fay
Assignment
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Think of a common
argument that you get
into with your child
Write down how you
usually handle this
Write down your child’s
response
Think of a new “natural
consequence” that you
can try
Love and Logic Resources
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Conferences
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Workshops
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Books
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Videos
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www.loveandlogic.com
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Teaching Children Responsibility
Raise children who are self-confident, motivated, and ready for
the real world with this win-win approach to parenting. Your
children will win because they’ll learn to solve their own problems
while gaining the confidence they need to meet life’s challenges.
And you’ll win because you’ll establish healthy control—without
resorting to anger, threats, nagging or exhausting power
struggles. Parenting with Love and Logic puts the fun back into
parenting!
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Unless you’ve got the finances to set your kids up with a lifetime
trust fund, they’re going to end up spending most of their adult
lives working. Wouldn’t it be a great gift if your children grew up
to enjoy work…rather than dread it? Bosses are desperate for
employees who understand:
 The importance of personal responsibility
 How to remain positive when the going gets tough
 That success comes from hard work and
determination…rather than handouts
DVDs
Books
Prizes!
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One-liner
Favorite heart quote or “Ah-ha
moment”
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This book is filled with excellent short stories that provide you with easy to
use techniques that can be put to use immediately. Covering all age ranges
for Parents and Educators.
Techniques for:
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Avoiding Power Struggles
Homework
Eliminate Sibling Rivalry
Thank You