100348
Press Briefing on the Repatriation of the Abacha Funds
with
Paul Wolfowitz
Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala
Jean-Daniel Gerber
Washington, D.C., September 27, 2005
PROCEEDINGS
MR. MILVERTON: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the World Bank. I'm very happy to bring you back here,
because it is so soon after the Annual Meetings themselves, and I appreciate your continued interest in this to come
back so soon after a very intense period. So thank you for coming along this morning.
Joining us this morning to discuss the issue of returning funds to Nigeria are the President of the World Bank on my
left is Mr. Paul Wolfowitz from the World Bank. On his left is Minister Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala from Nigeria and to her left
is the Secretary of State from the Ministry of Economic Affairs, Jean-Daniel Gerber from the Swiss Government. Just
all cell phones off if you could, please.
We'll open with just a few very brief statements and then we will open it up to your questions. So the order will be Mr.
Wolfowitz will begin first, Minister Ngozi will be second, and then Mr. Gerber will present comments third.
Thank you very much. Mr. Wolfowitz.
MR. WOLFOWITZ: Good morning. I think this is a very happy occasion. As I've said many times, corruption is not
just a problem in developing countries; the developed countries have a responsibility, too. And I think part of the
responsibility is to make it as hard as possible for corrupt governments to hide the money that they steal and to help
the people whom it belongs be returned, and I think that's what we're making today, and it's not, I think, a very
important, very important event just by itself, but I hope it's a useful precedent and a message for the future.
It's a real pleasure to be here with my colleague, Finance Minister Ngozi, whom I've gotten to know very well in the
last few months, and I must say I'm very impressed with what you and your team--actually what was so impressive in
going to Abuja was you made it clear this wasn't an individual effort, this was a team effort, and it's a strong team and
it's an impressive team, and the commitment to both making difficult economic reforms and to tackling this very tough
problem of corruption was evident to me and very encouraging.
And it's a great pleasure to be joined here by a new, new to me, colleague, the Swiss Secretary of State and the
Minister of Economic Affairs, Mr. Jean-Daniel Gerber, who made, I might say, some excellent contributions in our
discussions this weekend.
I think we all know Jim Wolfensohn said it correctly some years ago that corruption is a cancer. Corruption drains
scarce public resources and discourages investment. It benefits the privileged and deprives the poor. It distorts
economies in fundamental ways and inhibits growth, and it threatens the hope of the poor people for a better quality
of life and a more promising future.
The agreement that's been reached between Nigeria and Switzerland is a landmark agreement. It sends a signal
around the world that there is no safe harbor for stolen funds.
Minister Ngozi and her colleagues, as I think I've already mentioned, have, and I should say particularly her president,
President Obasanjo, have demonstrated a strong commitment to fight corruption, and part of the fight against
corruption is improving accountability and improving transparency.
And her commitment to put these returned assets to good use will serve Nigeria's poor and improve services and
support for education, for health, including HIV/AIDS, and for basic infrastructure.
I think pretty much from the time this new team stepped into action, they've been asking us, the World Bank, for help
in their efforts, both at legal reform and improved transparency and we've been doing what we can to help them
strengthen their ability to manage and effectively use public funds.
In this context, we will continue to work with Minister Ngozi to review the use of the looted Abacha funds, and we very
much appreciate what the Swiss government is doing now in support of that effort.
I think nothing stands in sharper contrast to the abuses of Abacha regime than the transparency and willingness of
this Nigerian government to commit these funds to the poor and to carry out this review. I congratulate both ministers
for concluding this agreement, and I hope in the future other countries will be inspired by this good example.
Thank you very much.
MR. MILVERTON: Thank you very much. Now, Minister Ngozi.
MS. OKONJO-IWEALA: Thank you. Well, thank you very much. I want to say that this is a very happy occasion and
echo what Mr. Wolfowitz just said. We think it's a great occasion because it sets a very good example of what should
be done. The Nigerian Government, the government of President Obasanjo, has made it very clear that its focus on
transparency, good governance and fighting corruption is real.
As part and parcel of that effort, we've also sought to return monies that were taken out of the country under the
previous regime, particularly the Abacha regime, and we are grateful and happy that the Swiss Government has set
an example for others by returning these funds.
We hope that it is an example that will be emulated all over the world. We are particularly happy that the World Bank
has also lent its support, not just in making this occasion happen, and they're trying to facilitate it, but most
particularly because they are with us in a consistent effort at ensuring that we maintain our focus on transparency and
good governance.
As you know, President Obasanjo has said there are no sacred cows. Wherever he finds evidence of corruption, he's
going to go after the people, get evidence, and take action. And I think that many of the actions he's taken recently
have more than demonstrated that he means what he says. You know that several high level officials have been
dismissed or are in court, are being prosecuted, jailed for acts of corruption.
We have been working with the World Bank on the Extractive Industries Transparency Initiative where they've lent us
support on reviewing our oil revenues, on taking account of our oil resources, how they are used, what it is that we
get out of oil, and how we apply those resources. And I think Nigeria is the leading country on the EITI, by the
way. We are one of the first to have a five-year audit of our accounts which we hope will be available by the end of
this year.
My colleague, Ms. Sobi Aquisili [ph] is leading that fight. They are also working with us on public expenditure issues
so this is all part and parcel of that drive. We're very grateful to the country team, the Africa Region, and to Mr. Paul
Wolfowitz for this support.
I'd like to stress that it's taken some time for us to be able to get at these resources, but finally we did, and it's
commendable that the Swiss legal system and the Swiss Government made this happen. We just want to send a
message internationally that it should be made easier, that countries whose funds have been taken out should have
them returned as quickly as possible once it's been legally proven that these funds belong to the country.
They can be resources that will be used in poverty reduction, in wealth creation, but most of all, it helps us assuage
the feelings of the population that once they've been wronged, it will be made right.
Secondly, it sends a strong message to those who would take out corrupt money, that there is nowhere for this
money to hide. So in addition to all the conventions we are signing internationally there should be action, action to
send this money back.
We want to assure the public that the money that we are getting back is put to use in poverty reduction and wealth
creating programs to support health, educating, agriculture, roads, water, and everything that has to do with
improving the lives of the Nigerian people.
Thank you very much.
MR. MILVERTON: Thank you very much, Madam Minister. The Secretary of State, Jean-Daniel Gerber.
MR. GERBER: Thank you. Mr. President, Minister, it would not be a surprise-MR. MILVERTON: I'm sorry. Could you just push the button on? That's it.
MR. GERBER: You should not be surprised, ladies and gentlemen, that I'm going to repeat more or less what has
been said, but that is done deliberately to show that there is common interest among the three parties here
concerned.
The recent restitution of the Abacha funds from Switzerland to Nigeria is one of the first cases of looted funds actually
being repatriated. Indeed, Switzerland is the first and so far only country where a court of law ordered the transfer,
ordered the transfer of the Abacha funds back to Nigeria.
Repatriating illegally acquired funds is an important tool in the fight against corruption as it closes safe havens for
such funds and it forces greater accountability and better governance. It is also a significant potential source for
development financing as it has been mentioned, as also the amount of assets looted from Africa held in foreign bank
accounts is estimated by a study of the European Commission--can you imagine--at more than half of the total
external debt of the continent.
Switzerland has a fundamental interest in ensuring that it does not receive illicitly acquired assets. It has a
comprehensive range of legal instruments and matters in place for turning away assets from criminal origin and for
identifying, blocking and returning them.
Swiss bank secrecy law does not apply to assets of criminal origin and therefore does not impede protective and
preventive measures in any way. Switzerland is committed to efforts of the international community, as we have
proven now, to close refuge for funds of criminal origin. This commitment has been confirmed by previous cases of
repatriating funds of criminal origin such as Marcos assets returned to the Philippines in 2003 and the Montesinos
assets to Peru in 2002.
We appreciation the involvement of the Bank in the restitution of the Abacha funds through the Public Expenditure
Management and Financial Accountability Review. The findings of this review will increase transparency and allow a
good understanding that resource flow into the Nigerian budget, including these repatriated funds, are used
efficiently.
The involvement of the Bank as a neutral third party with excellent expertise in public finance management is an
innovative and important element in this case. This involvement creates confidence among key stakeholders-Nigeria, Switzerland--about the use of repatriated funds and enables systematic learning from the experience of
Nigeria and other countries.
I can only encourage the Bank to build on this experience and make it available to other potential cases. Finally, I
would not end without thanking the Nigerian Government for their cooperation in this case, and of course in particular
Mrs. Okonjo-Iweala, for her leadership, Mr. Wolfowitz for his personal interest and efforts in this case, and the Bank
staff for their dedicated and professional support.
Thank you.
MR. MILVERTON: Thank you very much, sir, and now we'll open it to questions. Again, just a reminder to let us
know your name and your affiliation when you ask. Thanks very much.
QUESTION: Lucy Komisar.
MR. MILVERTON: Sorry. Can you wait for the microphone, please, so we can get a good transcription?
QUESTION: Lucy Komisar from Africa Confidential. Can you tell me what this money represents, where, in whose
name was it, and do you know what banks in Africa it transited and where it ended up before it came to Switzerland,
and what is the reason for-MR. MILVERTON: One question at a time. I know that you want to do a forensic audit, but our role here today isn't
to get into the nitty-gritty.
QUESTION: Well, the Ray case, what's the reason for the timing?
MR. MILVERTON: That was directed at whom?
QUESTION: Well, I guess Madam Minister and also both ministers would probably know the answer or have some
ideas.
MR. MILVERTON: They may indeed. Madam Minister, would you care to comment at all?
MS. OKONJO-IWEALA: Well, thank you for the question. I really do think that it's for forensic auditors. I found out
that such a profession exists. And they have done the tracing. President Obasanjo of Nigeria has relentlessly
pursued this course, and working with such auditors we were able to trace the monies over a period of time.
I think it's too complicated since it's a very specialized profession, I would advise you to talk to anyone of Vanuci [ph]
because I don't know all the drills. All we know is that the money ended up in Switzerland. The Swiss Government
worked hard to get their legal system to work in such a way as to return these funds, and that's about what we know.
MR. MILVERTON: Thank you. Sir, would you care to comment any further?
MR. GERBER: Thank you. Just to say that we got the request from Nigeria from Mutual Legal Assistance in 1999,
and we immediately blocked in the different banks, and there were different banks, the amount which are now
transferred back to Nigeria.
If you want to see how this happened, what the name of the bank is, the Supreme Court deliberations are
public. You can find that probably even on the Internet with all the details.
MR. MILVERTON: Thank you very much. Further questions? Ms. Wroughton.
QUESTION: Lesley Wroughton for Reuters. I was wondering what it's going to take to cut down the length of getting
these funds back to the countries and why do you think it took so long for the Swiss Government to act?
MS. OKONJO-IWEALA: I suppose that's directed at-[Laughter.]
MR. WOLFOWITZ: Any of us probably, but go ahead and be the brave one.
MS. OKONJO-IWEALA: Anyhow, maybe Jean-Daniel will comment. I, from the side of any of the countries involved,
of course, we would like the process to be much faster, as I said. I think what we have here is that the countries'
legal systems, you know, they have to work through their legal systems to get these funds restituted and
repatriated. And in fact Switzerland has been exemplary trying to do that and making a genuine effort.
Some countries hide behind the legal system and, you know, say ‘oh, it's so complicated. Our legal system has to do
this, that and the other, and I do think that internationally we have to look at this.’ You know, this is a good example
that you can actually make your legal system do it, and I think it sends a strong message: let us look at the laws that
may constrain the repatriation of such funds in each country and see whether they can be reformed in such a way as
to make the process faster. That's what we are saying.
MR. GERBER: Thank you, yes. Just to give you also an answer, as a matter of fact, I would have posed the
question the other way around: why was Switzerland the first then to act so rapidly? And where are all the others?
[Laughter.]
MR. MILVERTON: Thank you very much. Sir, would you care to comment?
MR. WOLFOWITZ: I can't add to that. That's great.
[Laughter.]
MR. MILVERTON: Thank you. Harry.
QUESTION: Harry Dunphy from AP. Who are the others?
[Laughter.]
QUESTION: And Minister Gerber, you mentioned in your statement the Philippines, Peru, and now we have
Nigeria. Are there any more in the pipeline?
MR. GERBER: Thank you. It's not to me to say who are the others. I don't know them in detail. And just to correct
that, I'm not a minister. I'm the State Secretary for Economic Affairs. I do not want to have problems with my boss.
[Laughter.]
MR. MILVERTON: Thank you.
MR. GERBER: And what was your second question? If there are others?
QUESTION: Are there others, yeah.
MR. GERBER: Eric, is there another case we have presently pending of such? No.
QUESTION: Okay. Thank you.
MR. MILVERTON: Thank you. Yes, sir. Wait for the microphone, please.
QUESTION: My name is Azu Isiekwena and I work for the Punch in Lagos. We already have $290 million
returned. When are we expecting the balance? Thank you.
MR. GERBER: Yes. I think that's addressed to me. The $290 million have been transferred to Nigeria. Then the
next step, the second tranche, will be released once converted from fixed to liquid assets. This will require a decision
by the Federal Council, as soon as it is possible, but fairly soon. I don't know. I can't tell you, but it will be fairly soon.
MR. MILVERTON: Thank you, sir. Further questions? Yes, gentleman here. And just a reminder, it takes a half a
second for the system to recognize the mike, so they're on when they get to you, but it will just take a half a
second. So you should be all right.
QUESTION: Yes, I've got a question for Mr. Wolfowitz. Lucian Caspar, Basler Zeitung Newspaper. Question for Mr.
Wolfowitz. The reason that this is an important national precedent and so you're hoping that this will be an example
that may be followed, but this is really a voluntary action now by one country, by Switzerland, and where do you think
this will go or where do you think this could go from here and where should it go? What should be done to make this
kind of thing happen more often on a much broader international level? What is your vision there?
MR. MILVERTON: Thank you.
MR. WOLFOWITZ: I'd say first of all we have a lot of work to do because I don't think we have the answers in detail
to your question, and I think you're right. It was an initiative by a government and it was also very importantly, I think,
all of the efforts that the Nigerian Government has been making in this whole area, I think were a major motivating
factor.
I think part of it is probably looking at this complicated subject of forensic auditing, and seeing if working collectively
we can do a better job of tracing where this kind of money has gone. My strong sense is in each individual
jurisdiction the laws are going to be different and perhaps as Minister Ngozi said, sometimes people hide behind the
laws, but you do have to follow legal procedures.
So figuring out if those kinds of procedures can be expedited would be something that we'd want to look at, but it has
to be done on a voluntary basis with countries that are motivated to do so. I just, I do feel strongly, and I'll repeat it as
many times as you want, that the challenge of fighting corruption, which seems to me everybody now says is a critical
piece of advancing development, is not just a challenge for the developing countries, and in Africa I've seen quite a
few now that are stepping up to that responsibility. Nigeria is an impressive example, but I just met with the Minister
of Finance from Malawi, and I was impressed at what they're doing.
It is not only their responsibility, and every corrupt transaction has at least two parties and sometimes more, and I
think all of the countries and institutions for that matter that in some way have a responsibility should step up to it.
MR. MILVERTON: Thank you. We've got time for two more questions.
MS. OKONJO-IWEALA: May I just make a comment on the pervious question?
MR. MILVERTON: I'm sorry. Please.
MS. OKONJO-IWEALA: Because it came from--I don't know--this is from the Nigerian Press. There is a lot of
anxiety at home that the money be returned quickly, and I want to reassure you that we are working with the Swiss
Government to make sure that the balance, the remaining 170 million, will be returned as quickly as possible. There
are no legal obstacles in the way of returning that money. It's purely an administrative and technical issue.
The monies are being held, some of them, in non-liquid assets that have to be transferred and made liquid so that
they can repatriated. So that takes, you know, some, just to covert it maybe from one kind of security to money that
can be transferred. That's what is being done, and we are, you know, pressing hard and the Swiss Government is
working hard. We hope it will come soon and I hope that that will calm, you know, nerves because I know a lot of
people at home are waiting to see this come in.
But there's nothing legal that I understand that's--Jean-Daniel will confirm that-MR. GERBER: Yes.
MS. OKONJO-IWEALA: --blocking the remaining money.
MR. MILVERTON: Thank you, Madam Minister. Mr. Secretary, did you have anything further to add?
MR. GERBER: No, that's correct.
MR. MILVERTON: Very good. I'm sorry. Bill?
QUESTION: Bill McQuillen at Bloomberg News. With the $458 million, is this believed to be all that was taken by
General Abacha or is there other funding out there that could be someplace else in the world being searched for?
MR. MILVERTON: Let's start with Madam Minister.
MS. OKONJO-IWEALA: No, this is not all the money that was taken. So far Nigeria has recovered about $2 billion
total of assets that were taken abroad including this $458 million. Actually it's $500 million total, but there is a small
outstanding around of $40 million that we still have to prove that this legally belongs to the country.
Each step of the way you have to prove that it's the country's money and not the money--it doesn't belong to those
who stole it. And $40 million of the $500 million that was identified is still outstanding, you know, of this $500 million
tranche.
But all together, we've been able to recover 2 billion and it's a very strong credit to the government and to the tenacity
of President Obasanjo in searching for this. We have had monies returned from elsewhere, you know, but the
biggest chunk has been this money from Switzerland and we are still working with the forensic auditors to see if there
are other monies, you know, that can be found elsewhere, and they will be returned when they are found if the
government on the other side is willing, as the Swiss have been.
MR. MILVERTON: Secretary Gerber or Mr. Wolfowitz care to comment any further? No. Thank you. Next. Yes, sir.
QUESTION: Roman Eisener with the Swiss News Agency. Critics in Switzerland say that most of this money has
already been used by the government and that it's very difficult now to control what's going to happen with it. How
are you planning to control it?
MR. MILVERTON: I'm sorry. That was directed to the Nigerian Government or the Swiss authorities?
QUESTION: The Swiss and Nigeria.
MR. MILVERTON: Mr. Secretary.
MR. GERBER: Well, as I mentioned, the money is going back into the budget of the Nigerian Government and the
banking is proceeding to a Public Expenditure Management and Financial Accountability Review. That's the way we
proceed.
MS. OKONJO-IWEALA: May I comment on that? I would want to resist the word "control." Please remember that
this is money belonging to the Nigerian people that was stolen and it's a very sore topic. This is a government that
has proven that it's transparent. We publish revenues from all tiers of government every month in the newspapers for
everyone to see.
We've taken steps on all sides. In fact, like I said, we've gone so far as to join this initiative called Extractive
Industries Transparency Initiative, which is designed to expose what we get from the oil sector, and we have been
doing that. We are way ahead, so I don't think there's any doubt about the credibility of this document in trying to do
what is right.
Does it mean that I'm saying the country is 100 percent free of corruption? You show me any country that is. I think
the bottom line is what are we doing about the past history that we've had. Now you have heard from everybody,
including Mr. Wolfowitz, that we are making strong steps.
So the issue of control has a connotation that I reject because it is up to us to make sure this money is used wisely
for our people. We have channeled monies to education, to health, to rural infrastructure and we'll continue to do
so. We don't need to be controlled.
We are working in partnership with the World Bank and the Swiss Government is helping by facilitating that
partnership and that's it.
MR. MILVERTON: I think that's it for today, too. I'm sorry. We've run out of time. Thank you very much for your
attendance today.
[Whereupon, at 9:40 a.m., the press briefing was concluded.]