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'all names used in this transcript are pseudonyms'.
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Transcription of Interview: HCP Biographical 6
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I:
So I've not got any set questions to ask you really, it's just general questions
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about things like when did you start going to the barber's, what kind of clothes
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were you wearing when you were younger and did you follow any fashions, that
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kind of thing.
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R1:
Yeah, well, the barber's as long as I remember. I always went to the barber's.
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My mother was a person who insisted. If my hair wasn't cut she'd say you're not
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going out unless you've got your hair done, which was…because it was only my
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mum and my sister. My father had died, so there was just my mum and sister.
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And of course my mother, if she said you've got to have another haircut you
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went and had one. But I mean it was okay I mean.
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And it was her way of making sure, because she had a chip shop, and the
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barber used to go in the chip shop and I'm sure it was my mother kept forgetting,
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and she'd say to him, 'Arnold's due, isn't he?' And of course, nine times of ten
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he'd say, 'yes.' And I said, 'well, what are you saying yes for? I only had it done
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last week!' He said, 'well, he's some money for you.' [chuckles] But he was a
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devil. And I said, 'she's going to know I've not had my haircut. Oh, aye. So I said,
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'well, I'll tell her I got it wrong and you go back home.' I said, 'forget it.' So he
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said, 'oh, alright.' But to me it was an amusement.
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R2:
Arnold, that wasn't the question.
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I:
And have you been to a barber's all your life then?
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R1:
Yeah, well, I went through a period where you used to trim my hair, didn't you?
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R2:
Yeah, but your daughter does it now.
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R1:
And then our daughter took over and she does it. And in-between times when for
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some unknown reason my daughter hadn't done and I'll go and see somebody,
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somebody else to do it. But nine times out of ten it's either been Annie or our
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Joanne.
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I:
Is your daughter a hairdresser?
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R1:
No. And she's…I mean I always have to keep my hair reasonably tidy. I mean
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it's probably me, I don't think you should go out unless you've got your hair in
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some sort of a…and it's just probably as I've been fetched up.
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I:
So what makes you decide when you need a haircut?
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R1:
Looking in the mirror and in here, as soon as it starts going here I think oh god,
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and I look in the mirror.
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I:
So down the back of your neck?
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R1:
That's right, yeah. And I mean it's always been the same one. But unfortunately
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he had to go away in the forces, so I went to another one and he was quite good
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as well, and for two or three years. And then of course they came out of the
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army and he said, 'I'm opening up, are you coming back again?' And then I went
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for so long, and they seem to have lost it. I kept saying to Annie, 'my hair's too
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short, he's cut too much off, he's given me an army haircut!' But no, Annie more
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often than not, you trim it when it wants doing…
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R2:
Yeah, or it's Joanne.
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R1:
…or my daughter does it.
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I:
And did you do National Service or were you too young for that?
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R1:
No, I was…
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R2:
He didn't pass his medical.
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R1:
I didn't pass my medical. I had, what was it?
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R2:
A shadow on his lung.
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R1:
I had a shadow on my lung because I'd had pneumonia a couple of times and it
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had left a shadow on my lung. So I went, I volunteered because I wanted to be
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in the forces you see, I wanted the navy to start with or the RAF. But they said,
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'oh no.' So I said, 'why?' And of course I was annoyed about it, I said, 'I
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volunteered and you won't let me.' And of course they sent me for an x-ray and
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he said, 'no, there you are, you've got a shadow on your lung.' He said, 'you'll be
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alright for the rest of your life, but if there was a war and we'd took you, we'd
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have to take you on, that will be on all your papers that you've got a shadow on
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your lung.' So I said, 'and what's that?' He said, 'nothing really, there's not a lot
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you can do with it, so forget it.' Which my mum was really pleased that I wasn't…
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[Interruption to interview]
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I:
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So going back to when you were school age, did you have to wear a uniform at
school?
R1:
I didn't have to wear a uniform because it was a church school and it was just
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after the war and all clothes were on ration. So it was a case of you can have a
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blazer this year and you can have slacks unless I can get some without paying
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coupons, which mother used to see to all that.
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I:
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And was it your mum who bought all your clothes or did you buy some for
yourself as well?
R1:
She bought the majority of them, and if I saw a pair of slacks or something like
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that I'd buy them myself, but that was more in the latter years, thinking I'm not
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buying my own clothes. A typical teenager!
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I:
Yeah, absolutely. And what about when you hit teens, did you follow any
particular fashions?
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R1:
No, well, it was all these tight fitting trousers and I didn't like them.
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I:
Drainpipes?
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R1:
Drainpipes, well, I didn't like. So I thought…my mother said, 'they're all wearing
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drainpipes.' I said, 'not me, I don't like them.' And I never had any drainpipe
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trousers, and I wore normal trousers and I wore blazers. And it wasn't the case
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of I want to be different than anybody else, it was what I was comfortable in and
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how it looked. I mean it wasn't as though I'm avoiding the way a lot of the people
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were dressing, it was a case of…My mother [inaudible 6:50], I mean I keep
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mentioning my mum, her idea was if it was something that fitted you and it
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looked alright, you could have it. And then you'd go back in the shop with her
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and you'd try something on, and she'd say, 'no, you're not having that, it's not
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your type.' And I'd probably sulk and I'd say, well, I won't say it. And in the end
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we'd compromise somewhere along the line.
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But I mean it was because there was only my mum and my sister at home, so
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consequently it was always women who were deciding. And I used to object, I
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said, 'it's women that are picking my clothes for me and it's not right.' And she'd
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just look at me and she'd say, 'you'd do as you're told when you're living in here.'
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I:
So what…
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R1:
So I got married and then she said, 'well, Annie now will tell you what you've got
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to do.' [chuckles]
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I:
And is that what happened once you two got together? Would you…
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R2:
I have never, ever, ever picked his clothes.
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R1:
But you could've done.
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R2:
Yeah, but you know. I'd have probably picked the wrong thing anyway.
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R1:
No, you wouldn't.
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R2:
He's always liked to pick his own things, I've never gone out and bought him
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anything, I wouldn't do that because he had his own opinion and knew what he
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wanted.
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R1:
What used to annoy me, somebody bought me a jumper…
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I:
Like for Christmas or something like that.
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R1:
Yeah, and you'd think oh god, and she'd be expecting to see me in it next time.
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And they were something probably that totally didn't go with what I…because
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new stuff comes out and you think oh, I'll wear that, I like that, I must try that. But
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it was always…Then you went through the stage where there was the American
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air force came into [name of town], and they were dressed casual coming in to
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the town. And you'd look and you'd think oh, I don't like that. And then you'd see
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another crowd which were totally different and you'd pinch their ideas. Slacks
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and a sweater, it'd take on. I started doing it, a few others, then you'd see
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something if you were out somewhere, and then you think oh, I'll try that, which
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was a good way of…I mean you weren't spending a lot of money, well, you
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couldn't afford to in those days.
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I:
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So what kind of age were you when you started shopping for yourself and
buying clothes for yourself?
R1:
Sixteen, near seventeen. But it was a case of I could pick my own because
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mother would say how much I'd got to spend on my clothes. I could go for a pair
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of slacks and a blazer, or I could get…I always wanted a suit, I don't know why,
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and I was determined I was going to have a suit because I wanted to be able to
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go out. I mean I've been a rep in selling for years, so consequently you've
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always got to have a reasonable…you dress reasonably well. So that's the only
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reason why I did it, because it was a case of the other reps were dressing up
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and I wouldn't go out unless I wore a collar and tie, but.
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I:
And for you what were comfortable clothes when you were relaxing?
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R1:
Oh, comfortable, if I was relaxing was a sweater and a pair of slacks.
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I:
So you wouldn't wear a tie all the time or anything like that?
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R1:
Oh no, a tie. But if I was going out I'd wear a tie. I've got hundreds of ties.
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I:
So I mean if you were going out for a special occasion or kind of going out?
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R1:
If I was going out with Annie I'd put a tie on, a collar, because to me I wasn't
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dressed unless I'd got a tie on. It's funny things, the way you do it, ain't it, I
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mean…
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I:
Well, I've spoken to lots of people who've said that actually, they've said they
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feel almost undressed if they haven't got a tie and a shirt on and that kind of
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thing when they're going out of their home.
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R1:
Yeah, I know. I tell you when I first started, was when this knot was only…the
small American…
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R2:
The Windsor knot.
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R1:
The Windsor knot. And I said to Annie one day, I said, 'I like these new ones.'
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And of course I'd seen the Americans wearing them. And then I managed to
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come home one day and Annie gave me a beaming…She looked at me, she
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said, 'I've got something for you?' And of course, 'what is it? Go on, tell me.' She
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said, 'no, you'll have to wait until you come back.' And she'd bought me one of
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these ties where you could have a Windsor Knot on it.
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I:
So what does a Windsor Knot look like? I'm not…
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R1:
It's there and it comes in.
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R2:
It's a smaller knot.
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R1:
It's small but it's…I mean you get some people and their ties are like this, all
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over the place. I don't know, if I've got a tie on it's got to be right, or I won't wear
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it.
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I:
So that was the influence of the American…
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R1:
That's right, because you could see them, and they used to come in the chip
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shop and my sister would say, 'oh, there's somebody from [name of place], and
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look at his tie.' And of course then I'd have to…my mother had apologised
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because I was looking at the chap's tie in the shop. And they'd say, 'you,' what
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was it, 'you English, you don't know how to dress properly.' So I said, 'of course
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we do.' And of course then he'd be talking and he'd say, 'I'll show you how the
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Americans dress. I'm coming in tomorrow night, I'll put a suit on, I'll show you
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how I can be dressed up.' And he came in and I thought well…My mother said,
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'he's not going to come, he shouldn't speak to people like that.' But he came in
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on the night in a suit and a collar and tie and he really looked smart. And I said,
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'you look fabulous, I'm envious now of you,' and I said, 'you shouldn't ever be
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envious of anybody, but I like your suit, I like your collar and tie and it all
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matches, doesn't it?'
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I:
So was the American look very different to how English people were looking?
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R1:
It was more casual. I mean the English, I mean you'd never go out in England
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with a Windsor Knot on that wasn't properly…if you've got it over here you'd
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never go out. I mean you never ever would go out. I don't think you ever saw me
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with a shirt that's not fastened properly.
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R2:
I don't think I was that bothered actually! [laughs]
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R1:
Honestly!
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R2:
You're going back a long, long time, Arnold.
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R1:
They were the good old days.
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I:
So when the two of you were together did you also used to advise each other on
how you looked and…
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R2:
No.
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I:
That was kept…
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R1:
No.
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I:
…completely separate and…
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R1:
That's right, yeah. I mean I'd say, 'do you like this tie?' And Annie would say yes
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or no. If she didn't like it she'd say, 'I don't like it.' I mean it wouldn't stop me
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wearing it, but I'd only wear it at certain times. But I mean I'd never say to Annie
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if she was putting something on that I thought was wrong, I'd say, 'oh, I don't like
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that,' wouldn't I?
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One of my failings if we were in a shop and somebody was trying a dress or a
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shirt or something on and if I didn't think it looked right I'd say, 'oh, I wouldn't
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have that, I don't like that.' And you could see the shopkeeper. But I thought I
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was being fair and the chap said, 'oh, thanks very much. I've took this because
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my wife would've said.' I said, 'well, it doesn't suit you.' Nobody ever hit me for it,
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so.
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I:
And when you started work were you required to wear certain types of clothes?
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R1:
No, well, they expected you to wear…I was an apprentice…
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R2:
When you first [inaudible 15:26] as a joiner.
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R1:
I was a joiner and I was an apprentice joiner, and they insisted you wore…
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R2:
Overalls.
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R1:
…overalls, but they were clipped so that you couldn't get them caught in
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anything and they were like a bib and brace. And you had to wear them, and if
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you didn't the shop steward would say, 'you can go home. If you come in
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something like that again tomorrow morning you go back home. You wear the
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shoes, you wear what you should be wearing,' which was fair enough.
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I:
So it was very strict in terms of…
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R1:
And they were strict in those days, they're not anymore. I mean you can see
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them and many a time I've walked passed where I was serving my
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apprenticeship and you see the lads coming out with jeans on and the tie
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hanging around the neck, not on properly and…And I think my god, I never was
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allowed to do that. But I mean I don't regret having to do the way they insisted
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you got dressed.
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I:
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So what about different haircuts? Have you always had the same haircut have
you changed?
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R1:
I once had a crew cut, didn't I? Yeah.
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R2:
When I first met him it was a quiff.
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R1:
A quiff.
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I:
Right, so a teddy boy sort of…
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R2:
Yeah.
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I:
…Elvis Presley style…
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R2:
Yeah.
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R1:
And then I had…
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R2:
He's never had long hair.
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R1:
Oh no, I could never have long hair, and I never had very short hair. It was what
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I liked, and the barber, which was a shame because he was in the forces.
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Because I used to go every three weeks…
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R2:
You've said all that, love.
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R1:
And he was called up for the forces, and my mother in the chip shop, like she
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would, she said, 'what's Arnold going to do now about his haircut?' He said,
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'well, when I come home on leave I'll do it.' And he actually used to come home
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on leave and cut my hair…
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I:
Wow.
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R1:
…which was nice.
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I:
So would you use things like Brylcreem and…
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R1:
Oh yeah.
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R2:
He was a Brylcreem man.
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R1:
I was a Brylcreem boy, yeah.
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R2:
But once we got married I stopped the Brylcreem because he made a right mess
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of the pillowcases! [laughs]
I:
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Yeah, because I suppose I always remember with my father's mother, she used
to have put things on…
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R2:
Oh, yes.
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R1:
My mother-in-law used to do that.
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I:
They're called antimacassars or something like that…
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R2:
Yeah.
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I:
…to stop the Brylcreem.
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R2:
That's why he wanted to go in the air force…
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R1:
In the RAF.
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R2:
…because they were Brylcreem boys.
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R1:
I wanted to go in the RAF because…
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I:
Oh right, okay, so they were well known for a certain…
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R1:
That's right, yeah.
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R2:
Yeah, they were, Brylcreem boys.
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R1:
So it's a shame that, but. I mean I didn't want to go in…I couldn't swim in those
252
days and I didn't want to go in the navy, I said, 'no, I'm not going in the navy, I'll
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go in the RAF.' And it was a treat, I went to the cadets and all that, and then I
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went for my medical and they said, 'no, I'm sorry.' So it was one of those things.
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I:
So when you stopped having a quiff and you started getting a regular haircut,
have you kept that more or less the same all your life…
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R1:
Yeah.
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I:
…or have you changed it at different times?
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R1:
More or less as it is now?
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R2:
A bit thicker.
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R1:
It doesn't grow…
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R2:
Our daughter wants…
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R1:
…grass doesn't grow on a busy street!
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R2:
Our daughter wants him to have it all off, she says, 'he'll look better,' because it's
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so wispy and fine on top now.
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R1:
I'm not having it off.
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R2:
You used to have a good head of hair, but…
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I:
So she wants to do the full shave?
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R1:
Oh yeah.
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R2:
Yeah.
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R1:
But I'm not having it done. No, I'm determined.
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R2:
Our son's like that, that's our son on that family one there.
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I:
Oh yeah.
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R2:
He's been up…
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R1:
He's just gone actually as you were coming in.
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R2:
…yeah, been up from [name of county]. So he's just gone home, so he has his
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off.
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R1:
Oh yeah, it's not for me.
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R2:
For years and years and years.
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I:
So who does your son take after?
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R2:
I think perhaps [inaudible 19:59], yeah, I don't know really I suppose. Me I think.
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R1:
There's a good one of him. He's always had his hair cut very short, and I used to
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say, 'you'll get [inaudible 20:19] with having your hair that short!'
R2:
But I think he started to have the bald patch like they do, unfortunately, and so
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one day he must have said to Joanne his wife, 'just take it all off,' and that's how
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he's kept it up and he's quite happy with it.
287
I:
So you've kept the same…
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R1:
Virtually the same.
289
R2:
Yeah, I'd say so.
290
I:
And how about in terms of what's comfortable for you with clothes; have you
291
more or less stayed with the same styles or have they changed?
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R1:
More or less, but friends and that that you meet and they say, 'oh, do you know,
293
I came out and I had the wrong jumper on and I had to go back and change it.'
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But I mean would've done years ago when I was about 17, 18, but now I
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wouldn't. I'd say, 'oh, I'll leave it till I come back.' It's probably laziness, old age is
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laziness at the end of the day.
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I:
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Do you feel that you're less bothered about your appearance now than maybe
you were when you were younger?
R1:
I wouldn't go out if I looked in the mirror and I looked a bit untidy, I'd go and get
300
changed. Wouldn't I? I've never just…I wouldn't go out with clothes, oh them, I'll
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grab hold of them.
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R2:
Well, like I was saying about the jumper before, it's quite unusual for him to
303
come down in that dirty jumper. Where he's found it, he must have put it away
304
sometime in his wardrobe, I don't know, but it couldn't believe it because it was
305
scruffy. That's why I said to him, 'look, the gentleman's coming, go and change
306
your jumper.' I don't usually have to say that, he usually is clean and tidy.'
307
I:
So is that quite important to you then, Arnold?
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R1:
Oh yeah.
309
I:
That your clothes are clean…
310
R1:
But with being a sales rep you're always meeting customer and you're on the
311
road and you never know who you're going to meet every day. So consequently,
312
I mean I've been used to wearing a collar and tie when it's been blazing
313
sunshine. But no, you had to wear a collar and tie! But it didn't bother me
314
because that was how it was. And I enjoyed being dressed up when I was
315
working because you were doing two good things in one go.
316
I:
When you say two good things, how do you mean?
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R1:
Well, I used to like being dressed up and a collar and a tie, and it was an easy
318
way because if the people, the superintendents usually, they'd come around,
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they'd have a look at what you were wearing; 'don't come in that tomorrow, it
320
doesn't match.' I mean I was fortunate because I used to love changing my
321
clothes, so a case of if I tried something on and they didn't like it, I thought well,
322
it doesn't suit me, this, I wouldn't wear it again. But I mean there was quite a
323
crude crowd of the lads, t-shirts were in and they were putting that…and they'd
324
come. Or they'd wear an open-neck shirt with a silk tie or a silk scarf, and I
325
thought oh, I don't like that, and I would never wear one. But I was quite happy
326
with a collar and tie.
327
R2:
He was a standing joke actually. We used to have a tour caravan and a couple
328
of friends, we always went away, and he'd get changed about three times in a
329
day; he was a standing joke! Elsie my friend would say, 'look, he's got changed
330
again!' I think he just liked…
331
I:
So what was that about, Arnold? What was all the changing about?
332
R1:
Somebody made some comment, and of course, if I felt I needed to get changed
333
I'd go and get changed, and it only takes a couple of minutes. And they'd say,
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'what have you got changed for?' I'd say, 'I don't feel right, I feel a bit untidy, so I
335
changed.'
336
R2:
They'd come and be sat outside the caravan, he'd appear at the door of the
337
caravan and they'd say, 'oh my god, he's got changed again!' It became a
338
standing joke. I think he needed to wear all his clothes at one go and we'd take
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them away. [laughs]
340
R1:
No, but I think you should wear what you feel comfortable in.
341
I:
Absolutely, yeah.
342
R1:
And I mean a lot of these people that stand in shops in that, and you go in and
343
particularly men's shops, and you go in and you see them and they're…it goes
344
through my mind, well, I wouldn't be wearing them! That's my opinion but I would
14
345
never go and say to them what you're wearing now looks a mess, because it's
346
nothing to do with me. But I mean I'd have my own personal thing that I'd keep
347
to myself. And think well, what the juice is he wearing it like that for?! Why's he
348
wearing them two types? And it used to intrigue me because at the end of the
349
day they were there selling, and if they can't be in a decent outfit or however you
350
want to put it, if they're selling ties they should be wearing a tie. And if they've
351
got shirts on they should be wearing a shirt, and a shirt with creased collars, oh,
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they were out completely!
353
I:
So were you selling things like that then?
354
R1:
Oh yeah.
355
I:
Were you selling clothes and…
356
R1:
I was selling…
357
R2:
You weren't selling clothes.
358
R1:
I was selling shirts. In fact, I used to do that, one firm, what's his name? And I
used to go and collect the money selling…
359
360
R2:
361
362
Yeah, that was just a little job when you were quite young on the side. It wasn't
your job.
R1:
Oh no, I was an apprentice joiner during the day. But in fact, I used to go on my
363
bike with my briefcase on the back with clothes in, and I'd ride up and go to
364
somebody's house and just take my briefcase in and say, 'oh, we've got these
365
this week.' And I loved doing that, but that was only part-time. But it was making
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money.
367
I:
So when you retired, did the way that you dressed change a lot?
368
R1:
Do you think so? I still wear the same things, don't I?
369
R2:
Not really, yeah. You don't wear the collar and tie like you did.
15
370
R1:
The collar and tie was…
371
R2:
It just went to casual…
372
R1:
It was five days a week.
373
R2:
…really, a sweater and shirt, a t-shirt, something like that.
374
R1:
It was definitely five days a week I had a collar and tie. But I never objected to
375
that, I mean I felt…It's because I felt comfortable in it, and it was worth it. But I
376
mean one or two of the lads and the chaps…
377
[Interruption to interview]
378
I mean it was a case of I'd see the people that you were working with and if I
379
saw them coming in a suit, I'd go in a suit because that must be what they
380
normally wear and nobody had told me. But I'd always like to think I was dressed
381
how I should be.
382
I:
383
When you get your clothes out for the morning what kind of things are you
thinking about when you're choosing the clothes that you're going to wear?
384
R1:
Where I'm working, where I'm going working, and that decides…
385
R2:
No, you're not working anymore. He still thinks he goes to work.
386
R1:
We're speaking of not now, but it's what we used to do, I understand.
387
I:
Yeah.
388
R1:
So you can't make decisions on something that you don't know what it's going to
389
be like when you get there, can you? I mean you could say for five days a week I
390
always had a collar and tie on when I was working. And because one morning it
391
was really funny, I went in, I was pottering about and then one of the chaps said,
392
'did you oversleep, Arnold?' I said, 'no, why?' He said, 'you never ever come
393
without a collar and tie on, and you have this morning. And I've been waiting for
16
394
that.' I said, 'why?' He said, 'so I could tell you!' And it was funny, but to me if I
395
wasn't dressed, I had to have a collar and tie on or I wasn't dressed.
396
Which to me was…I felt comfortable. And if you're in a house where there's two
397
women, because there was my mum and my sister, so consequently they had
398
their views, 'you're not going out like that, are you?' And then you'd look. But it's
399
probably…I mean there's other people probably have only got their parents to
400
criticize or tell them this is good or that's no good.
401
I:
402
403
like that, or have you always been clean shaven?
R1:
404
405
So what about things like did you ever grow a beard or a moustache or anything
I tried to grow a moustache and I got so disgusted with it I shaved it off. I went
upstairs into the bathroom and shaved it off because it didn't seem right.
I:
406
And was getting shaved something that you would always do or would you get
your barber to do it?
407
R1:
Oh, I always shaved. I thought I can't let him do that, an old cut razor…
408
I:
Cut throat…yeah.
409
R1:
…and all sharp…how sharp it is was enough to frighten you. But I used to shave
410
every day; sometimes twice a day if I was meeting Annie at the night, I'd have a
411
shave before I went to pick her up. But it was only because that's what you got
412
used to.
413
I:
Like you say, it's what you feel most comfortable with, isn't it?
414
R1:
Yeah.
415
[Interruption to interview]
416
I:
417
So what would happen in the home around things like laundry and ironing and
all that kind of thing is that shared between you?
17
418
R2:
No, I always did everything like that, but then in these later years, since he's
419
retired, well, just recently really, he's started to do a bit of ironing. And to me, I
420
always ironed his shirts how he wanted them ironing, and they had to be folded
421
over and the collar straight, I always do them like that, and only last week he
422
decided that he didn't like the way I iron shirts.
423
I:
[chuckles] Right.
424
R2:
Right, so he does his own shirts now and he presses his own trousers. I hate
425
trousers. I'll iron all his shirts but trousers. I used to press them but he's taken
426
over that now. [inaudible 32:09] I don't know.
427
I'm saying, you decided last week that I didn't iron your shirts right.
428
R1:
It was nicely how I told you. I didn't say I nastily, did I?
429
R2:
You just said that I didn't do them right, and I did them the same for 56 years.
430
R1:
Oh well. I decided that when I had ironed the shirts, and I don't mind, I'll do the
ironing, don't I? But…
431
432
R2:
But you haven't always done it, it's only just recently…
433
R1:
I decided if I did the ironing the creases will fall in and then it's a case of you're
434
not bothered about it. And it's just me. Like these, I ironed these.
435
I:
Like a sweatshirt.
436
R1:
That's right, yeah.
437
I:
You'd iron a sweatshirt, would you?
438
R1:
And it's just that's me, I would never go out unless I'd got…for years, and if I
439
hadn't got a tie on I wouldn't go out, I'll go back. And I got to a stage where I
440
used to have a tie, a spare one in the glove compartment in my car, and I don't
441
know.
18
442
I:
Just in case you split something down or…
443
R1:
That's right, yeah, and it's so silly. But I mean I'm not as bad getting dressed
444
now as I used to be, am I? I think you've educated me better.
445
R2:
No comment. [chuckles]
446
R1:
There was a part of my life where people were wearing old tight fitting trousers,
447
and I couldn't, no way. My mother said, 'I'll get you some of them.' I said, 'you
448
won't, I won't wear them.' 'Well, why? What's wrong?' I said, 'they look a mess.'
449
And it's…
450
I:
Yeah.
451
R1:
And I've always got two suits on hangers in my wardrobe, haven't I?
452
R2:
You've got more than two suits.
453
R1:
Yeah, and then I've got split suits, different ones, but I've always got two. And if
454
when I was working, they could ring me and within ten minutes I could be on the
455
road going somewhere where they wanted me to go, and to me I thought…The
456
boss said to me when I was retiring, he said, 'it's not the same, Arnold.' I said,
457
'but everyone works different, don't they?' 'Yeah,' he says, 'but we could ring you
458
and in a quarter of an hour of me ringing you you'd be packed up, dressed and
459
you'd be out going to see a customer. None of others do that.' So I could do
460
exactly what I wanted and nobody ever came and said you shouldn't be doing
461
that, or you shouldn't be doing that. Because they always used to say, 'oh, the
462
bosses think the world of you!' I always used to say, 'only because I'm doing the
463
job right and not causing any problems.'
464
Because to me, if you've not got a collar and tie on and I mean I didn't wear a
465
waistcoat, very, very rare did I have a waistcoat on, but to me, unless you
466
dressed right, you shouldn't be…I mean to me a salesman is a suit and a collar
467
and tie. If you're not dressed properly you shouldn't be out trying to sell, because
468
people look at you, and while you're trying to tell them what you're going to try
19
469
and sell or trying to sell them, they're weighing the people up, you can see it and
470
I've seen it how many times.
471
I:
Image is important if you're in sales, isn't it?
472
R1:
Of course.
473
I:
The way you present yourself.
474
R1:
You sell yourself and then you sell the article.
475
I:
Is that the approach that you would take?
476
R1:
That's right, yeah.
477
I:
So what happened about getting things like suits then? Would you buy those off
478
479
the peg or would you go to a tailor?
R1:
I used to buy them off the peg. I was very fortunate because my size, the
480
amount of weight that I'd put on, the standard suits were ideal, and plus the fact
481
the price was right.
482
I:
And what kind of places would you go to buy a suit?
483
R1:
Just a gents' outfitter. And invariably the gents' outfitters would be the children's
484
and the gents'. And then they would have…like I used to wear a lot of blazers, a
485
lot blazer and a pair of slacks, which was ideal because you could wear a collar
486
and tie at the same time. But I wouldn't go out all casually dressed and going
487
somewhere, to a dance or somewhere. If I hadn't got a collar and tie on I
488
wouldn't go.
489
I:
490
491
492
And what about things like when you were on holiday, if you were going out to
the beach for the day or something like that?
R1:
Casual. We never had any problems with that, have we? But I couldn’t go out
and sit with a collar and tie on, on the beach.
20
493
I:
Because I've spoken to people who have done.
494
R1:
Oh, no, god no.
495
R2:
I've seen people on the beach.
496
I:
Yeah, roll up the trousers.
497
R2:
It's so ridiculous.
498
R1:
But no, not for me. I think it's your own little way of getting dressed, isn't it? And I
499
mean what did you…my sister was the worst one with me when I was at home.
500
I'd put something…'what the juice are you wearing that for?' And I'd like, I'd say,
501
'why?' 'It doesn't match the rest of the stuff, does it?' And then you're, 'oh well, I'll
502
go and change it.' And it's only when you've got two women in a house and
503
there's no men there it's a bit awkward because they've got a different outlook.
504
I:
you'd wear and…
505
506
Did they have quite a big influence do you think on how you then looked at what
R1:
That's right, they're looking at what you're wearing. 'What have you got them on
507
for?' And I'd say, 'because they look comfortable.' Well, they might feel
508
comfortable but they don't look comfortable, go…'
509
I mean I don't know if you remember it, there was an era when you'd have a shirt
510
with a tie that didn't match. Well, I couldn’t do with that.
511
I:
Was that 1970s?
512
R1:
That's right, yeah. And I'd go oh no, that's not for me. And why, I could never
513
ever found out why it got like that, because didn't ones, and you'd see lads in the
514
pub and you'd say, 'god, where have you got that from?' He'd say, 'I know, it's
515
bloody awful, aren't they? These are going in the dustbin next week.' So I said,
516
'why?' 'Oh,' he said, 'I've bought about five! And every one of them, people are
517
passing remarks, I shouldn't be wearing them.' So I said, 'you're joking, aren't
518
you?' So he said, 'no.' I saw him the following week and he'd got…I said,
21
519
'where's your shirts?' He said, 'down the tip where I said they were going!
520
Because they don't match.'
521
I:
were…
522
523
So what about things like shoes, what would be your choice of shoes when you
R1:
Comfortable shoes, like now, but I mean I wear a lot of suede shoes just
524
because I like suede shoes. And they're reasonable, they're not all that
525
expensive, plus the fact they're easy to keep clean. So that's the reason I wear
526
these, and I think I've got about three pairs, grey ones. I keep thinking about
527
buying a pair of fawn ones, but I buy fawn ones I've got to buy fawn trousers
528
then.
529
I:
Yeah. So it's all got to match from head to toe kind of thing?
530
R1:
That's right, yeah. Oh, yeah, got to match. It's terrible when you think about it,
531
isn't it? Women do it but I usually try and keep them to match.
532
R2:
I'm not saying anything.
533
R1:
You're not saying anything?
534
R2:
[inaudible 40:27].
535
R1:
Pardon?
536
R2:
He's got more pair of shoes than I have.
537
R1:
Oh, I know.
538
R2:
Loads of them.
539
I:
Really?
540
R2:
Yeah, he has.
22
541
R1:
Yeah, well…Them are comfortable. I mean they're not expensive shoes. What
542
were they? £15, which is not expensive. And they're so easy to put on and if you
543
want to take them off they're so easy to take off, so.
544
I:
545
546
So do you have different shoes for different looks, different outfits that you're
going to wear
R1:
Yeah. I've got suede ones, the casual ones. Now I used to wear suede ones
547
with a suit, but of course the suede ones wore out and I never bought anymore.
548
But the thing is, I've got about six pair of shoes that all match outfits together.
549
But it's only because it's a habit. I mean I'd never ever think of going out like in
550
the evening with no suit on. If you're going out, if you've got a lady with you,
551
she's made an effort, so I always believe you've got to make an effort the same.
552
I:
553
554
So coming up to present day and the clothes that you wear now, how often
would you say you go shopping and buy things nowadays?
R1:
555
Well, not very often, do I? Because fortunately the clothes that I'm wearing now,
I've had them probably five or six years, haven't I?
556
R2:
[inaudible 42:24]
557
R1:
But they're still not out of date. I mean it got to the stage where there was
558
different shoes coming out and different colours, and you were thinking my god,
559
another pair! These, nobody wears these type of shoes now, and I thought well,
560
I'm going to be different. And I don't think I've seen anybody with these type of
561
shoes on, have you?
562
R2:
They must have, it's not the thing I do, Arnold, I don't look at men's shoes.
563
R1:
Don't you? Well, I look at women's shoes.
564
R2:
Well, that's up to you. You've got your fetish, haven't you? [laughter]
565
R1:
No, it's two reasons, they're comfortable and they're easy to clean.
23
566
R2:
But you've got all those others, those broggy things, I'm saying nowt.
567
R1:
Yeah. You've got black leather lace ups.
568
I:
So a good selection then.
569
R2:
He has got…
570
I:
A range of different things to…choices.
571
R1:
Yeah, shoes, well, my mother used to say, 'if you can't get shot in a good pair of
572
shoes, if you've got good shoes on it can rain, do anything and you won't get
573
your feet wet. And the thing you should always look after is your feet,' which is
574
probably…I mean. But that was alright, I was buying my own shoes then, it was
575
when she…I think she thought if I tell him he's like this he'll buy his own shoes
576
and not me having to pay for them, which was probably right.
577
I:
578
So when you choose your clothes nowadays, when you're getting ready, what's
part of your decision about what you're going to wear?
579
R1:
I take Annie with me.
580
R2:
No.
581
R1:
Yeah.
582
R2:
What you would wear.
583
R1:
Oh, I would say…
584
R2:
You just go and get ready and you come down…
585
R1:
She'll say, 'what are you looking at?'
586
R2:
…and you'll say to me, 'do I look alright?'
24
587
R1:
I'm well, looking at a blazer and slacks. 'Well, would you want me to come?' I'll
588
say, 'well, yeah, if you will,' because I always think asking Annie what do you
589
think, and she'll tell me the truth. She'll say it looks okay, that, or you look a
590
mess in it, and she comes straight out, wouldn't you?
591
R2:
Twelve months ago our daughter-in-law's mum died, and we were going to the
592
funeral, and he must have had this raincoat in the wardrobe for donkeys' years,
593
and we're stood here and the grandchildren were coming with us, and he walked
594
down stairs, he looked like a lumbo. The kids wouldn't even walk with him.
595
'Grandad, you're not going out in that, are you?!' 'What's wrong with it? What's
596
wrong with it?' I said, 'well, it doesn't look right.' Anyway, he did take it off. Where
597
he'd got…He must have had it in the wardrobe for, I don't know, years and years
598
and years.
599
[Interruption to interview]
600
I:
601
602
So what about things like aftershaves and things like that, do you buy those for
yourself or are those things that people give to you?
R1:
603
Like Christmas now, I get loads from the family, they'll buy my aftershave and
stuff like that, and shaving cream.
604
I:
Do you ask them for a certain type or do they just know which…
605
R1:
They all know which one I use, which is…Different ones have said…Because it
606
must be what's on my face when they gave me it, and you think oh dear, I'm not
607
going to use that, how do you tell them? [chuckles] And they said, 'well, why
608
don't you tell us what…The make of it, that's all we want to know, and the
609
colour.' So I had to tell them, and invariably one of them will say, 'look, we've got
610
you these but if you don't like them you've arranged you can take them back,'
611
which is nice. I mean I've always said if I don't feel comfortable in it I'll not wear
612
it, I mean it's just wasting money. And I mean the family's accepted it, well,
613
they've accepted me so they must accept the rest of us.
25
614
I:
615
616
So do you have a particular type of aftershave that you always wear or do you
use a mix?
R1:
At the moment I'm using one that came from, oh god, what's the name of it? I've
617
not used it for a while and Annie said, 'it's one of these like the ones that the
618
ladies…and they do two or three gents' stuff.'
619
I:
Oh yeah, they do men's and women's versions, yeah.
620
R1:
And it's been quite good. Whose aftershave is this?
621
R2:
Sorry?
622
R1:
Whose aftershave is this that I'm using now, or don't you know?
623
R2:
Well, yeah, our daughter does Avon so she usually treats him to Avon stuff. In
624
our younger days you like that Aramis that went off the market, but we think it's
625
coming back now.
626
I:
Yeah, I think I've seen adverts for it.
627
R2:
Yeah.
628
R1:
That's right.
629
R2:
He always had that, he was quite upset about that when it went off the market.
630
But it's mostly the Avon aftershave, different ones.
631
I:
And how about yourself, do you follow a particular type of perfume?
632
R2:
Right, well, Arnold bought me some perfume for my birthday which was my
633
634
favourite, Lou Lou, I seem to stick to the same one.
I:
Well, great, thank you very much both of you for your time today, it's been really
635
useful and really interesting to hear about all the histories of your different looks
636
and clothes and things like that. Thank you, Arnold, very much.
26
637
R2:
Sorry about the photos.
638
I:
Oh no…
639
R2:
If I'd known I wouldn't have…
640
R1:
Sorry about the coughing.
641
I:
Well, we didn't…
642
R2:
No, he didn't want one, [inaudible 48:59]…
643
R1:
No, about the coughing.
644
R2:
Oh coughing, I thought you said coffee, sorry.
645
I:
Well, I don't think we needed photos in the end, I think we were able to picture
646
things.
647
R1:
It should be interesting to see how it comes out.
648
I:
Okay, thank you very much.
649
End of recording
27
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