HEAT TREATING
JUNE 2013
CONFIRMED
CONFIRMED MINUTES
JUNE 3-7, 2013
MARRIOTT RIVE GAUCHE HOTEL
PARIS, FRANCE
These minutes are not final until confirmed by the Task Group in writing or by vote at a subsequent meeting. Information herein does not constitute a communication or recommendation from the Task Group and shall not be considered as such by any agency.
3 JUNE 2013 to 7 JUNE 2013
1.0 OPENING COMMENTS – Code of Ethics and Anti-Trust briefing
Call to Order / Quorum Check
The Heat Treating Task Group (HT) was called to order at 9:00a.m., 3-June-13
It was verified that only SUBSCRIBER MEMBERS were in attendance during the closed portion of the meeting.
A quorum was established with the following representatives in attendance:
Subscriber Members/Participants Present (* Indicates Voting Member)
NAME COMPANY NAME
* Silvia Baeza
* Shaun
* Bruce
* Frank
* Cedric
* Martin
Ron
Brewin
Brownfield
Brungs
Colas
Rolls-Royce
Lockheed Martin Corporation
MTU Aero Engines GmbH
SAFRAN Group
Day
Dejesus
Honeywell Aerospace
Goodrich (UTAS)
* Andreas
* Sergio
Melissa
* Bob
Elbs
Esposito
Facas
Liebherr-Aerospace SAS
Alenia Aermacchi S.p.A.
Pratt & Whitney
Textron Systems
*
Harold
Cristina
* Gerald
* Andrew
* Billy
* Dave
Finch Spirit AeroSystems Inc.
Gonzalez-Perez EADS Corporation
Harvey
Hopkins
Hulse
Isenberg
Mateusz
* Stefan
Krukaz
* Serge Labbe
* MarcAndré Lefebvre
Lemberger
Triumph Group
BAE Systems Air & Information (MAI)
Spirit AeroSystems Inc.
Parker Aerospace Group
MTU Aero Engines GmbH
Heroux Devtek Inc.
Heroux Devtek Inc.
Eurocopter Deutschland GmbH
* Weitao
Faticanti
Ma COMAC
Secretary
* Will
* Doug
Macias
Matson
* John Merritt
Alessandro Miglio
* Tom
* Eddy
* Fabrizio
Norris
Pham
Quadrini
Triumph Group
Goodrich (UTAS)
The Boeing Company
Sikorsky Aircraft
AgustaWestland
Goodrich (UTAS)
Northrop Grumman Corporation
AgustaWestland
Chairperson
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* Sunder
* Alex
Victor
David
* William
* Marc
* Jeff
* Cyril
Thierry
Dennis
Sarah
* Grzegorz
Rajan
Richez
Schonberger
Soong
Stewart
Taillandier
Thyssen
Vernault
Wartel
Webb
Woodward
Wryk
Raytheon Co.
Airbus
Israel Aerospace Industries
Pratt & Whitney
Bombardier, Inc.
Eurocopter
GE Aviation
SAFRAN Group
Latecoere
Honeywell Aerospace
Honeywell Aerospace
Rolls-Royce
V. Chairperson
Other Members/Participants Present (* Indicates Voting Member)
NAME
Mohamed
Olga
Yvette
Elena
Elena
* Michael
Andrey
Stephan
Irina
Yury
Gunter
Emmanuel
Gilles
Iain
* Michael
Alexander
Jacek
Martin
Yuliya
Afsal
Antonenko
Aston
Bolgakova
Bolotova
Brandt
Chistyakov
Greimers
Inkova
Kokryazky
Krauss
Lache
Leroy
Mackenzie
Niedzinski
* Jeffrey
Adil
Rudolf
Amy-Lyn
Martinez
Stephen
PRI Staff Present
Pashenkin
Podgorski
Pojer
Puzyreva
Sipf
Slimani
Sporer
Starzyk
Thierry
Write
COMPANY NAME
Singapore Aero Engine Services, Pte. Ltd.
Kamensk Uralsky Metallurgical Works, J.S. Co.
TTI Group
Kamensk Uralsky Metallurgical Works, J.S. Co.
Kamensk Uralsky Metallurgical Works, J.S. Co.
Alcoa Inc.
Kamensk Uralsky Metallurgical Works, J.S. Co.
Thyssen Krupp VDM GmbH
Kamensk Uralsky Metallurgical Works, J.S. Co.
Irkut
RUAG Technology
Metatherm
Aubert & Duval
Bodycote Heat Treatment UK
Constellium France
Irkut
ATI ZKM Forging Sp. z.o.o.
LETOV LETECKA VYROBA s.r.o.
Irkut
Haynes International
Metatherm SAS
Bohler Edelstahl
The Winstead Precision Ball Co.
Bodycote FB ADE
Brazonics
Jerry
Marcel
Robert
Aston
Cuperman
Hoeth
Stan Revers
1.1 APPROVAL OF PREVIOUS MEETING MINUTES / RAIL REVIEW – OPEN
Motion made by Doug Matson and seconded by Jeff Thyssen to accept February 2013 meeting minutes. Motion passed with none opposed. The minutes from February 2013 were approved.
The minutes will be presented again during the OPEN meeting.
2.0 HEAT TREATING AGENDA REVIEW –CLOSED
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The Task Group reviewed the agenda for the week to highlight agenda items.
3.0 HEAT TREATING TASK GROUP TUTORIAL - CLOSED
Marcel Cuperman presented the Task Group Tutorial.
A microphone is available for anyone who would like to use it. Speak clearly, do not dismiss people’s opinions, emotional and off topics should be avoided.
4.0 STAFF ENGINEERS DELEGATION – CLOSED
Motion made by Gerald Harvey and seconded by Sunder Rajan to accept the comments made for Marcel Cuperman by Subscribers during the last quarter without further discussion or action.
Motion made by Gerald Harvey and seconded by Sunder Rajan to continue to delegate Marcel
Cuperman. Motion passed with none opposed.
Motion made by Jeff Thyssen and seconded by Cyril Vernault to accept the comments made for
Jerry Aston by Subscribers during the last quarter without further discussion or action. Motion made by Gerald Harvey and seconded by Jeff Thyssen to continue to delegate Jerry Aston.
Motion passed with none opposed.
Motion made by Jeff Thyssen and seconded by Gerald Harvey to accept the comments made for
Rob Hoeth by Subscribers during the last quarter without further discussion or action. Motion made by Jeff Thyssen and seconded by Billy Stewart to continue to delegate Rob Hoeth. Motion passed with none opposed.
Motion made by Jeff Thyssen and seconded by Gerald Harvey to accept the comments made for
Anne Allen by Subscribers during the last quarter without further discussion or action. Motion made by Jeff Thyssen and seconded by Gerald Harvey to continue to delegate Anne Allen.
Motion passed with none opposed.
5.0 LAPSED ACCREDITATION – CLOSED
To date during 2013 there have been 12 lapsed accreditations. Of those 9 were granted 30 day extensions by the Staff Engineers, and 3 had expired accreditations. During the discussion of lapsed accreditation one task group member asked the Task Group what is the process for a supplier that has received accreditation then moves the company location. To remain on schedule this topic was tabled until Thursday afternoon.
ACTION ITEM: Staff Engineers to send lapsed accreditation to the task group at the end of July
2013(Due date: 31-Jul-13)
6.0 APPEAL ANALYSIS AND POSSIBLE APPEALS - CLOSED
To date in 2013 there have been 9 appeals. Three of the appeals were accepted, five were denied, and one was withdrawn. There is an appeal scheduled to be presented to the Task
Group on June 12, 2013.
7.0 AUDITOR CONSISTENCY: +/-5NCRS – CLOSED
Staff Engineers provided data on audits where there had been +/- 5 NCR swing between audits.
Additionally, the Staff Engineers presented data for audits where there was a swing of +/- 4
NCR's. This information is provided to allow Auditors to be highlighted, allowing the Task Group to follow up with these Auditors. The Task Group decided to continue to monitor +/- 4 NCR change since it provides more data. The data presented included 38 audits that had swing of +/-
4 NCR's from one audit to the next at the same company. 13 had +4 NCRs and 25 had -4 NCRs.
Continue to monitor +/- NCRs. A task group member expressed concern that it is difficult to know
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CONFIRMED exactly which checklist question triggered the generation of the NCR and asked "How are auditors combining findings in NCRs". Staff Engineers commented that the first checklist question listed on the NCR is the question that triggered the NCR and other checklist questions can be added later if the questions are related to the original finding. A suggestion was made that combining audit findings on NCRs be part of the auditor conference in October. No action was taken. Provided during the discussion for information only: the average number of NCR's written by all auditors for all audits to date in 2013 is 4.4.
Auditor Variation Data (between auditors): Presentation given by Doug Matson. The presentation included the average number of NCRs for each auditor and the min/max and total number of audits for the year.
NCR Analysis presented by Bob Faticanti: Bob Faticanti presented the NCR analysis data for the benefit of those Subscribers not present at the last two meetings. The NCR analysis covered the checklist sections 3 through 10. Highlighted the questions with the most NCRs written to the least NCR's written and sorted by auditors. The data will be used by the Auditor Consistency and
Convergence sub-team for topics to be presented and discussed at the auditor conference in
October.
8.0 AUDITORS CONFERENCE FOR OCTOBER 2013 SUB-TEAM REPORT OUT – CLOSED
Auditor Conference was addressed by the Auditor Consistency and Convergence sub-team, and was presented to the task group by Jerry Aston and Tom Norris. The sub team used the 10 least/most NCR data compiled by Bob Faticanti. The team considered the 10 questions where little or no NCRs were written to consider why NCR's are not written. The team reviewed and summarized the data to see how it could be incorporated into the Auditor Conference. During the discussion the task group suggested 5 auditors to assist in presenting topics at the conference.
Those auditors are: Martin Bridge, Gerardo Errichiello, Vijayendra Heblikar, Michael Ladd, and
Nick Cifaldi. The Task Group suggested the following topics for consideration for the conference: o Checklist sections 3, 7 and 9 o Heat Treat Audit Handbook review o Time Management o Best Audit practices
Motion made by Eddy Pham and seconded by Billy Hulse to delegate the Auditor Conference
Agenda to the Auditor Consistency and Convergence Sub-Team. The motion passed unanimously.
9.0 AUDITS OBSERVERS – CLOSED
The number of Heat Treat observation audits is disappointing.
Since the February 2013 meeting, there were 2 observation audits performed. The oversight audit forms that have been returned and their summaries were reviewed by the Task Group. In general, the feedback on the Auditors was positive, but there were areas that can be improved.
These improvements will be addressed with those Auditors by the Staff Engineers.
The Task Group requested that the observation audits be tracked in a spreadsheet. Who observed, who was observed, the dates of the observation, etc.
Audit observation reports will be reviewed each subsequent meeting.
10.0 SUBSCRIBERS VOTING MEMBERS PARTICIPATION – CLOSED
The Staff Engineers presented to the Task Group a chart showing Subscriber Voting Member meeting attendance from October 2010 to February 2013 and Task Group ballots covering the last three Nadcap meetings. Since the last meeting there were no additional Subscriber Voting
Members not meeting the requirements of NTGOP-001. Since the last meeting the Heat Treat
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Chair contacted UVM's not meeting the requirements, and after discussion concluded that no further action is required. Five new User and Alternate Voting Members were accepted.
New Voting Members:

Cedric Colas of Safran Group was voted in as an ALT/UVM

Pedro Aranda of Eaton was voted in as a UVM


Stefan Lemberger of Eurocopter was voted in as a ALT UVM
John Merritt of Sikorsky was voted in as a UVM

Fabrizo Quadrini of AgustaWestland was voted in as an UVM.
11.0 NOP-012 – CLOSED
Jerry Aston provided an overview of the current status of the proposed NOP-012. There was concern expressed about the "requirement" to complete observation audits. The NOP-012 will recommend that new auditors are observed after 6 months, and current auditors will be observed once every two years. Concern was expressed that there is a perception that observation audits are not value added and observers just routinely give good reports to the auditors. There was discussion on this topic and observers are encouraged to be fair and critical observers.
Observers are also encouraged to observe the audit from start to finish. No action was taken on this topic since NOP-012 is still in the revision stage and will go to ballot after the June meeting.
A suggestion was made to add NOP-012 to the October agenda so the Task Group can decide how to implement NOP-012.
12.0 FAILURE ANALYSIS & VCA DATA – CLOSED
The Staff Engineers presented to the Task Group the number of Verification of Corrective Action
(VCA) audits being carried out. In the first quarter of 2013 there were 5 VCA's, two of which failed and in the second quarter there were 4 VCA none of which failed. The Heat Treat Task Group failure rate is currently at 4.6%. The Task Group asked to see failure rate data from other commodities compared with Heat Treat. The other commodities have a much lower failure rate
(0.5%) compared to Heat Treat. Based on the review of failed audits, auditor consistency data such as the +/-4 NCR's the top 10 questions and the 10 Least/Most data the Task Group believes the Heat Treat audits are being conducted appropriately and no action based on failure rate should be taken.
ACTION ITEM: PRI Staff and Task Group officers will review Failure and VCA Data for content and format prior to the October meeting. (Due Date: 11-Oct-13)
13.0 RE-EVALUATION OF NEW CONTRACTED AUDITORS AFTER 6 MONTHS PERIOD-CLOSED
No Action taken or discussion conducted. The Task Group decision was to wait for the approval and release of NOP-012 since it addresses this issue. Re-Evaluation of new auditors will be discussed at the October meeting as part of the NOP-012 discussion.
14.0 M-FRM-01 -CLOSED
Submitted m-frm-01s were discussed during the Supplier Voting Member Participation Agenda item 19. Five new voting members were added to the Task Group during this meeting.
15.0 HT-STSTG - OPEN
See HT-STSTG minutes.
Only suppliers and SE’s allowed to Participate.
Subscribers are welcome.
16.0 OPENING COMMENTS – OPEN
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Opening comments from Tom Norris (Chair): Introductions of the Task Group Subscriber and
Supplier Member meeting attendees.
The open meeting began with video from PRI about the Nadcap Code of Ethics, Code of
Conduct, Conflict of Interest Anti-Trust Policy and ITAR/Export control.
17.0 RAIL REVIEW –OPEN
Review of action items from the Rolling Action Item List (RAIL):
AI 326 - Closed
AI 328 - Closed
AI 332 - Closed
AI 339 - Closed
AI 328 & 335 combined
18.0 APPROVAL OF OCTOBER MINUTES – OPEN
February 2013 Minutes were presented to the Task Group. The minutes were posted to www.prinetwork.org
.
Motion made by Gerald Harvey and seconded by Jeff Thyssen to approve February 2013
Minutes as submitted.
Motion passed.
19.0 SUPPLIERS VOTING MEMBERS PARTICIPATION – OPEN
Supplier balloting activity and meeting attendance data was presented to the Task Group. The data showed that the requirements of NTGOP-001 section 5.2.5 were being met by all the
Supplier Voting Members (SVM). Paragraph 5.2.2.1 has been added to NTGOP-001 which requires that Voting Member status to be reviewed at every Task Group meeting. There are 11
Supplier Voting Members. During the meeting 5 new Supplier Voting Members were approved.

Tom Glosser of Astro Aluminum Treating

Robert Cvetichan of Paulo Products Company

Dennis Fried of Carpenter Technology

Edward Englehard of Solar Atmospheres

Jeff Sipf of Haynes International Inc.
Participation is high for Heat Treat Suppliers. The level of participation is appreciated by the Task
Group.
20.0 CLOSED MEETING REPORT OUT –OPEN
Tom Norris gave debrief on the discussions held during the closed meeting.
Discussed proposed draft of NOP-012: the purpose is to establish a standard approach for Task
Groups to assess auditor consistency. NOP-012 will be balloted after the June 2013 meeting conclusion.
21.0 AC7102/3 REV. C BALLOT COMMENTS – OPEN
The comments were reviewed and dispositioned by the Task group.
22.0 AC7102/4 REV C BALLOT COMMENTS – OPEN
The comments were reviewed and dispositioned by the Task Group. Section 8.2 was disapproved and the checklist will be sent back to Ballot.
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23.0 HT-STSTG REPORT OUT - OPEN
Mike Brandt gave the HT-STSTG meeting debriefs.
See HT-STSTG minutes for meeting details.
Suppliers wishing to suggest topics for the Auditor Conference are requested to provide suggestions to the Staff Engineers by 1-Aug-13 to be considered for inclusion in the conference agenda.
24.0 LABORATORY FURNACES MOU REPORT OUT – OPEN
Doug Matson gave a report out on the MOU with MTL concerning laboratory furnaces. The MOU is for suppliers with accreditation for AC7101/9 and AC7102 for laboratory furnaces. AMS 2750 has some gaps for laboratory furnaces that are not specifically utilized for heat treat operations.
Doug presented 2 options for processing the MOU. There was a suggestion to add laboratory furnaces with or without load thermocouples to the FRM-F005 for audit scope. The MOU Sub-
Team has not yet made recommendations to the Task Group.
25.0 PYROMETRY FOR COMPOSITE – OPEN
Doug Matson reported on the progress of Pyrometry for Composites. There is a new specification currently in process of creation AMS2750/1 "Pyrometry for Non-Metalics". This is currently in process with the AMEC committee.
26.0 SPLITTING PYROMETRY IN A NEW CHECKLIST – OPEN
Doug Matson made a presentation to the Task Group concerning separating the pyrometry section 10 from the core checklist into a standalone checklist. There was considerable discussion both for and against this idea.
Motion made by Doug Matson and seconded by Alex Richez to split out section 10 from the core checklist (AC7102) into a separate pyrometry checklist ( AC7102/8) and present both checklists to the Task Group for ballot. The pyrometry checklist will be required for all Heat Treat audits in conjunction with the core checklist. (13 Approved and 9 Disapproved. Since this is considered normal Task Group business the motion passed) Motion: Doug Matson
ACTION ITEM: Marcel to extract section 10 from AC7102 into a separate pyrometry checklist
(AC7102/8) and submit AC7102 and AC7102/8 to ballot.(Due Date: 30-Aug-13)
27.0 NMC METRICS – OPEN
NMC metric charts were presented to the Task Group. All the charts were green except for
Suppliers on merit. The metrics for Suppliers on merit is at 77% which is yellow.
28.0 OPENING COMMENTS - OPEN
Opening comments were made by Tom Norris.
29.0 SSC REPORT - OPEN
The June 2013 SSC report out was presented by Mike Brandt .
The Supplier Support Committee is to help suppliers navigate the Nadcap process, to find help if suppliers feel the need to escalate issues beyond the Staff Engineer. Suppliers have access to mentors if they wish to find help without asking in Task Group meetings or raising red flags, or just need help understanding Nadcap interpretation of requirements. SSC help is available for all commodities. SSC meetings are always held on Tuesdays during the Nadcap meetings from 5:00 to 7:00pm.
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30.0 AMEC REPORT - OPEN
Report summary presented by Doug Matson. The main activity is a complete revision to AMS
2759 and the 12 slash sheets. The main specification has been balloted, but the comments to the slash sheets will result in additional changes to the main document. The goal is to have the complete AMS 2759 revision completed by the end of the 2013. AMS 2770 is currently in the revision process and will be balloted later this year.
31.0 AUDITOR ADVISORIES –OPEN
Auditor Advisories issued since the February 2013 Nadcap meeting were reviewed. The Task
Group was reminded that the advisories are posted on eAuditNet for review. These are available on eAuditNet under Resources/Documents/Public Documents/Heat Treat/Auditor Advisories.
Only 2 Advisories were written in 2013. HT 13-001 was reviewed with the Task Group and was previously reviewed at the February 2013 meeting. HT-13-002 was written for TC wire calibrated to AMS 2750 revision D and used after implementing AMS 2750 revision E. The advisory allows the TC wire to be used as is until the inventory is depleted.
ACTION ITEM: Review NIP 4-01 for balloting Auditor Advisories. (Due Date: 24-Oct-13)
32.0 TFRM11 CHANGES VS AS7003 –OPEN
There was a brief presentation of t-frm-11 versus AS7003 when changes at a Supplier require notification to Nadcap that may affect Nadcap accreditation. Discussion only no action taken
33.0 SMART CHECKLIST –OPEN
There was discussion of the SMART checklist process. The Welding Task Group and Chemical
Process Task Group will be piloting audits using the SMART checklist in October 2013. This is essentially a reduced scope audit checklist for suppliers that have matured in the process. The software for the SMART checklist has been developed and enabled in eAuditNet for the pilot programs. Concerns were expressed that some of the questions under this process may only be asked every 6 years. After reviewing the proposed process the Heat Treat Task Group decided not to pursue the SMART checklist at this time.
34.0 PROCESS CONTROL SYSTEM –OPEN
Doug Matson made a presentation on process control system and commented that most auditors are not writing NCRs for this section of the core checklist and believed that the auditors were possibly avoiding the section. Concern was also expressed that this section appears to require a tangible document or notebook as objective evidence that there is a process control system. The concern is that this is not an industry specification requirement and does not meet the checklist vision for Nadcap. There was considerable discussion on the topic. Part of the discussion was about an auditor advisory written on this subject. This prompted a question about whether or not advisories are incorporated into the Audit Handbook. The question about incorporating advisories into the handbook was tabled to Thursday meeting. The Task Group decided to poll the auditors and ask why some auditors are writing NCRs on this section and others are not. Additionally, the
Task Group will include a review of section 7, and the auditors response to the question during the Auditor Conference. Then monitor NCRs written against this section for appropriate audit findings after the conference.
35.0 FAILURE ANALYSIS & VCA DATA –OPEN
The Staff Engineers presented to the Task Group the number of Verification of Corrective Action
(VCA) audits being carried out. In the first quarter of 2013 there were 5 VCA's two of which failed and in the second quarter there were 4 VCA none of which failed. The Heat Treat Task Group failure rate is currently at 4.6%. The Task Group asked to see failure rate data from other commodities compared with Heat Treat. The other commodities have a much lower failure rate
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(0.5%) compared to Heat Treat. Based on the review of failed audits, auditor consistency data such as the +/-4 NCR's the top 10 questions and the 10 Least/Most data the task group believes the Heat Treat audits are being conducted appropriately and no action based on failure rate should be taken.
36.0 AC7102 SECTION 3 (QUALITY QUESTIONS) REVIEW –OPEN
Section 3 has a very low number of NCRs written against it which prompted the Task Group to question if the section needs revised or if training needs to be provided on the section. There was a suggestion to form a Sub-Team to review section 3 and make a proposal for changing section
3. There was a comment that section 3.6.5, 3.6.6 and 3.6.7 for example should be part of the job audits. After much discussion a proposal was made to open up the checklist for review and proposal for revision. Initially the proposal was for section 3, but after much discussion the proposal changed to review the whole checklist and submit revision suggestions to the Task
Group.
Motion made by Gerald Harvey and seconded by Doug Matson to have a Sub-Team formed to review the checklist for revision, move technical questions to other sections, revise questions or to remove questions. Motion carried with none opposed. Sub-Team: Cedric Colas, Mike
Niedzinski, Martin Day, Sarah Woodward, Jeff Thyssen, Tom Norris, Gerald Harvey, Doug
Matson, Cyril Vernault, Marc Talliander, Mike Brandt and Marcel Cuperman.
ACTION ITEM: Sub-Team to review AC7102 section 3 for revision, move technical questions to other sections, revise questions or to remove questions and present recommendation at the October 2013 meeting.(Due date 20-Oct-13)
37.0 HTTG CHAIRPERSON REPORT TO NMC - OPEN
Tom Norris gave a brief summary of items discussed at NMC.
38.0 OPENING COMMENTS – OPEN
Opening comments made by Tom Norris. and Quorum check.
39.0 PLANNING & OPS DEBREIF-OPEN
Tom Norris gave a brief summary of items discussed at the Planning & Ops meeting. There was a significant discussion on NOP-012 and the SMART checklist. There were concerns expressed about the number of restricted auditors versus non-restricted auditors for suppliers that process export controlled or ITAR hardware.
40.0 OPEN MEETING TABLED SUBJECTS-OPEN
A supplier relocates after accreditation. This issue is addressed by procedure and a new audit would be required.
A question was asked if Auditor Advisories are routinely added to the HT Audit Handbook. The answer was no. There was discussion about whether the advisories should be added to the handbook. All advisories are posted on eAuditNet for review at any time. There was concern expressed that just posting the advisories to eAuditNet is insufficient as a standard process.
Motion made by Bruce Brownfeild and seconded by Gerald Harvey to have the Audit Handbook sub-team review audit advisories back to 2010 to see if they should be included in the audit handbook or pyrometry guided and present recommendation to the task group at the October meeting. And, make audit advisory review a standing meeting agenda item and the task group will decide at each meeting if an advisory needs to be added to the handbook or pyrometry guide.
(18 in favor and 1 opposed. Motion carried) Sub-team: Cyril Vernault, Sunder Rajan, Andy
Hopkins, Eddie Pham, John Merritt and Tom Norris.
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ACTION ITEM: Handbook Sub-Team to review Auditor Advisories back to 2010 for possible inclusion in the Audit Handbook and Pyrometry Guide and present recommendation at the October 2013 meeting.(Due date 20-Oct-13)
41.0 NEW OPEN BUSINESS – OPEN
No new business presented at the open meeting.
42.0 RAIL NEW ACTIONS – OPEN
New actions added to the RAIL.

Staff Engineers to provide lapsed accreditation data at the end of July


Staff Engineers to provide list of auditors from +/-4 NCR data
Make Carburizing and Nitriding checklists as close to identical and consistent as possible and send back to Task Group for ballot.

Extract Section 10 from base checklist into separate checklist submit revised core checklist and new pyrometry checklist for ballot.

PRI Staff and Task Group officers to review Failure and VCA data prior to the October
2013 meeting.

Audit Handbook Sub-Team to review Auditor Advisories back to 2010 for possible inclusion in Auditor Handbook or Pyrometry Guide and provide recommendation at
October 2013 meeting.

Staff Engineer to poll the Task Group for consideration of "Local Heat Treating" as a new process.

Staff Engineer to poll the Task Group for consideration of "Sintering" as a new process

Staff Engineer to create agenda for October 2013 meeting and forward to Task Group for review and approval.
43.0 OPENING COMMENTS - CLOSED
Opening comments made by Tom Norris.
44.0 AUDITS ALLOCATION – CLOSED
Audit Allocations were made up through October 2013. The Task Group Secretary will assign the remaining audits that do not have 2 reviewers assigned.
45.0 NEW BUSINESS – CLOSED
Auditor Advisories: Question was asked about the procedure for issuing Auditor Advisories.
Some advisories seem to be automatically issued while others require approval of the Task
Group. There was confusion on the issue expressed. In general advisories for Subscriber specific requirements are issued at the request of the Subscriber. Advisories proposed for industry specifications such as AMS2750 would be presented to the Task Group. There was concern expressed that this process takes too long and several audits are conducted without resolving the issue. Marcel will review NIP 4-01 and see if Auditor Advisories can be balloted in eAuditNet to improve the process and shorten the cycle time.
There was a request for the Task Group to consider "Local Heat Treating" as a new process for accreditation. Marcel will poll the task group for interest in this process.
ACTION ITEM : Marcel to poll the Task Group to consider “Local Heat Treating: as a new process for accreditation. (Due Date: 24-Oct-13)
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There was a request for the task group to consider "Sintering" as a new process for accreditation. Marcel will poll the Task Group for interest in this process.
ACTION ITEM : Marcel to poll the Task Group to consider “Sintering” as a new process for accreditation. (Due Date: 24-Oct-13)
There was a question from the Task Group concerning radiation testing of vacuum furnaces used for aluminum heat treating. AMS2750 does not require this, what is the opinion of the
Task Group. No Action taken.
There was a request from Bell Helicopter to revise the Audit Handbook. This was provided as information only to the Task Group. Since the request deals only with Bell Helicopter requirements. The Staff Engineer will update section 34 of the handbook to accurately reflect
Bell Helicopter requirements.
ACTION ITEM: Modify section 34 of the Auditor Handbook to address Bell Helicopter issue for
AMS2750. (Due Date: 24-Oct-13)
There was a suggestion to add an agenda item to discussion issues that are discussed on
Google group.
SAFRAN Group and Eurocopter raised a question concerning the placement of control thermal couple in a specific vacuum furnace that utilizes a rotary style table to move the load into and out of the working zone. With this style and set up of a vacuum furnace it is difficult to place the control thermal couple in the working zone and not interfere with the furnace components, and have the load temperatures at the desired location. Eurocopter and SAFRAN asked that this issue be reviewed with the AMEC Heat Treat team to see if an alternate placement of the control
TC outside the work zone to accommodate this particular furnace set up would be acceptable.
Since the February meeting this issue was presented to the AMEC Heat Treat team and the team decided not to pursue any alternate placement of the control TC outside the work zone.
Additionally, the issue was discussed within the task group, and the task group also decided not to pursue the issue further.
46.0 FINALIZE OCTOBER 2013 AGENDA-OPEN
The agenda for the October 2013 Nadcap meeting was discussed.
It was agreed that the Staff Engineers would create the agenda and forward to the Task Group for approval/modification.
ACTION ITEM: Staff Engineer to create agenda for October 2013 meeting, and forward for Task
Group for review and approval. (Due Date: 1 August 2013)
ADJOURNMENT – 6-June-13 – Meeting was adjourned at 3:15 p.m.
Minutes Prepared by: Bruce Brownfield, Lockheed Martin, bruce.brownfield@lmco.com
***** For PRI Staff use only: ******
Are procedural/form changes required based on changes/actions approved during this meeting? (select one)
YES* NO
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*If yes, the following information is required:
Documents requiring revision:
AC7102/4 and AC7102/3
AC7102 and AC7102/8
Auditor Handbook
Who is responsible:
Marcel Cuperman
Marcel Cuperman
Marcel Cuperman
HEAT TREATING
JUNE 2013
CONFIRMED
Due Date:
24-Oct-13
24-Oct-13
24-Oct-13
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