Plato and Rhetoric
427-346 BC (81yrs.)
Life
son of wealthy & influential Athenian parents
began his philosophical career as a student
of Socrates
when Socrates died, Plato traveled to Egypt
and Italy, studied with students of
Pythagoras, and spent several years
advising the ruling family of Syracuse.
Eventually, returned to Athens & established
his own school of philosophy at the
Academy.
Plato
For students, Plato tried to pass
on the heritage of a Socratic style
of thinking
The written dialogues on which
his enduring reputation rests also
serve both of these aims.
Primary Focus: Attack Sophists
Plato on Rhetoric
Three works on Rhetoric:
The Apology (we’re not reading)
The Gorgias--attack on Sophistic
practice of rhetoric
The Phaedrus--development of a true
rhetoric
The Gorgias (385 BC)
An early work
Major ideas implied or stated
Dialectic nature of truth “remembered” in
dialogue among experts
Rhetoric is pre-selected communication in
order to defend opinions
The Gorgias
Attacking Rhetoric
Three rounds of speeches
First round: Gorgias and Socrates
Rhetoric’s nature and uses
Definition--is rhetoric a true art?
Second round: Polus and Socrates
Rhetoric is just a knack for creating persuasive
speeches that lack foundation in justice/truth
Third round: Challicles and Socrates
Pursuit of power without knowledge of justice
perpetuates injustice
The Gorgias
Continued
Topics
 What is the nature of rhetoric?
 Does rhetoric by its very nature tend to mislead?
 What happens to a society when persuasion is a
basis for law and justice?
Theme
The basis of justice
Doxa (mere public opinion) vs Episteme
(true knowledge)
Socrates/Plato & Gorgias
Round One
Socrates/Plato: What is the art or
techne (knowledge) rhetoric offers? (a
question)
Gorgias: Rhetoric is concerned with
words, persuasive words.
Socrates/Plato: Not a definition,
because all disciplines use persuasion.
Episteme (true knowledge) vs pistis
(mere opinion).
Socrates/Plato & Gorgias
Round One
Continued
Justice involves episteme. Justice is a
lofty, time consuming topic. Public is
ignorant.
The rhetorician, then, is not a teacher of law
courts and other public gatherings as to what
is right or wrong, but merely a creator of
beliefs; for evidently he could never instruct
so large a gathering in so short a time.
Socrates/Plato & Polus
Round Two
Socrates vs Polus (the colt)
Polus: “Rhetoric is the greatest
power in the country.”
Plato: Comparisons
The arts vs sham arts
Socrates/Plato & Polus
Round Two: True and Sham Arts
The Arts of Health

Body
Maintain:
gymnastics
Restore:
medicine
 The Sham Arts of Health

Maintain:
Restore:
Soul
legislation
justice
Body
Soul
make-up
cookery
sophistic
rhetoric
Socrates/Plato & Callicles
Round Three
Callicles: Natural Justice or the
rule of the intelligent over the baser.
Machiavellian approach to power-gained without pursuit of or
attention to justice.
Major Claims in Gorgias
Sophistic rhetoric is misleading-designed to convince audience they’re
dealing with truth when they’re really
perpetuating opinion
Rejection of transient notion of truth
(time, justice and juries)
rhetoric seeks persuasion while
philosophy seeks truth
The Phaedrus (367 BC)
Twenty years after the Gorgias
deals with the "nature (phusis)" of
the soul”
Three Major Parts separated by
interludes
The Phaedrus
Continued
Content: Socrates in conversation with a
young sophist student
Intellectually and physically attractive
Love: “divine madness” a “trance
entered by poets”
The Soul has three parts
The Phaedrus
Continued
A techne of rhetoric
A true or just rhetoric
Phaedrus
Con
Part One:
The soulless speeches: Lysias'
speech and Socrates' 1st speech
The definition of love
Its effects on the beloved
Phaedrus
Con
Part Two:
Socrates' Second Speech: The speech on
the soul
nature of the soul and behavior "in
heaven”
1.1. The soul as principle and the
image of the winged chariot
1.2. Divine souls and their journey
toward "what really is”
1.3. Human souls and their
wandering within bodies
Part Two con
Socrates' Second Speech: The speech
on the soul
idea of beauty and its effects on embodied human
souls
2.1. Role of "ideas" in human life and
privilege of beauty
2.2. Effects of beauty on man's soul
2.3. Consequences depending on which god
the soul followed
Part Two con
Socrates' Second Speech: The
speech on the soul
behavior of loving and loved souls here
on earth
3.1. Behavior of the lover
3.2. Behavior of the loved one
3.3. Styles of life that may result and
conclusion regarding Lysias
The Phaedrus & the Soul
The three parts (Charioteer)
Loves wisdom
Loves nobility and honor
Loves appetite or lusts
Phaedrus Part Three
Socrates' Third Speech: Dialogue on
Rhetoric
From false rhetoric to true dialectic
The dialectician and the rhetorician
From false dialectic to true rhetoric
The Phaedrus & Rhetoric
Rhetoric therefore is the art of
influencing souls
Psychagogia “leading souls”
Know “the truth” first
Adapting to audience’s soul is the art of
rhetoric--soul of love, soul of honor, soul
of lust
Justice is realized when the lower
submits to lover of wisdom.
The Phaedrus
(Comments/Criticisms)
The relationship of rhetoric to truth
discover? or propagate? (mere advocacy)
Create the truth?
Rhetoric and Dialectic both can produce
evil
Listen for soul--Remembering?
Is this tradition or God?
The Phaedrus
(Comments/Criticisms)
Kennedy p. 58 “Plato’s is an impractical
rhetoric, . . . How can we know
everyone's soul?
Yet, we can know our soul “that which is
most personal is also most general”
Plato starts with ontology or being, thus
soul talk is remembering or recalling
(reincarnation)