UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
Interview #515
BIRD, R. BYRON
BIRD, R. Byron (1924- )
Graduate Student; Project Associate; Professor of Chemical Engineering
At UW: 1947-52; 1953-92
Interviewed: 1997-98
Series: College of Engineering
Interviewer: Barry Teicher
Length: 7.25 hours
Childhood; Early education; WWII; 90th Chemical Mortar Battalion; University of
Illinois; Joe Hirschfelder; Ph.D. at UW; Fulbright fellowship in Holland;
Molecular Theory of Gases and Liquids; Position at Cornell; Return to Madison;
UW Department of Chemical Engineering; Chairmanship of Department; Kurt
Wendt; Student protest movement; Federal funding and research; Trip to China;
Olaf Hougen; Transport Phenomena; William Shetter; Dutch readers; Ed Daub;
Japanese texts; Dynamics of Polymeric Liquids; Students and teaching; University
committees; Awards and honors; Interests and extra-curricular activities.
First Interview Session (December 11, 1997): Tapes 1-2
Tape 1
00:00:02
RBB was born in Texas. His father was a professor of civil engineering at Texas
A&M. His family moved to Iowa when he was a year old. RBB’s father left
academia and worked on dam building, sewage treatment plants, and related work.
As a result, the family moved around a lot. In 1936, when RBB was 12, his family
moved to Washington, D. C., where his father remained for the rest of his career.
00:02:33
RBB’s father left academe, partly so he could be more independent but partly
because he was more interested in doing things rather than telling people how to do
things. RBB’s family enrolled him in kindergarten in Washington, D.C. He
attended grade school in Fort Dodge, Iowa, and high school in Washington, D.C.
Generally speaking, RBB liked school. He always felt he wanted to be the teacher.
As a result, there was never any question about an ultimate career choice. RBB
thought he had very good teachers in Iowa. He attended Central High School in
Washington, D. C., which was the primary college preparatory high school. He
liked high school a great deal.
R. Byron Bird (#515)
00:04:56
When RBB got ready to attend college, he had decided he wanted to major in either
music or foreign languages. His father refused to let him do so, saying you cannot
earn a living in either of those fields. He felt strongly that RBB should major in
engineering. RBB ended up doing what his father said.
00:06:08
After some initial reluctance on his RBB’s part, he started taking music lessons for
the piano when he was about seven. His first experience with foreign languages
came about because his parents had foreign language books in the living room. His
father had studied German and Spanish, and his mother had studied Latin and
French. Being “a nosey kid,” RBB started looking through the books and asking his
parents questions relating to them. In high school, RBB took Latin and French. He
studied German on his own.
00:08:36
RBB wanted to go to either MIT, Princeton or Yale but his parents were concerned
that he was too immature, since he had skipped two grades and was younger than
most entering freshmen, and they felt he should enroll at a school near home. RBB
ended up enrolling at the University of Maryland, which, he said, was probably the
correct thing for him to do. As it turned out, World War II began and RBB ended up
in the military anyway.
00:10:04
RBB was raised during the Great Depression. His father was unemployed for two
years as a result of it. His family led a rather Spartan life during these years.
00:10:58
RBB started college in the fall of 1941. He declared a major in chemical
engineering, partly because his father suggested that he do so. RBB says he had two
excellent lecturers in chemistry, Charles White and Nathan Drake. The instruction
in chemical engineering was generally poor. The department, RBB learned later,
was not even accredited.
00:12:37
Chemical engineering was a relatively new field at that time. It began to evolve in
the late 1890s. The University of Wisconsin has one of the oldest departments in
the country. The chemical engineering department at the University of Maryland
was fairly new at the time RBB was a student. Most chemical engineering
departments evolved from the chemistry department. At Wisconsin, the department
evolved from the Department of Electrical Engineering.
00:15:32
RBB had signed up for the advanced ROTC course at the University of Maryland.
The war started a few months into RBB’s freshman year. He knew he would be
joining the military, so he enrolled in advanced ROTC. In June of 1943 RBB
traveled to Camp Sibert in Alabama for basic training. Somehow, at the end of
RBB’s 17 week basic training course, his orders got lost. He ended up doing menial
tasks until one day the head of ROTC happened to bump into his father and
informed him that RBB should have been sent back to the University of Maryland
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for ASTP training. Within a week, RBB was ordered to report back to the
University of Maryland.
00:19:25
A few months later, in early 1944, RBB was sent to Officer Candidate School.
RBB ended up in the 90th Chemical Mortar Battalion and was sent to England.
His battalion was shipped to the continent following the Battle of the Bulge in
mid-January, 1945. They were sent to Belgium and remained on the front until the
end of the war.
00:22:54
RBB was on the front from the second week in February, 1945, until the end of the
war on May 8. He describes the function of the Chemical Mortar Battalion. After
the war ended RBB’s battalion went to Nuremberg, where they served as
occupation troops for two months. He returned to the states and was retrained for
redeployment to the Far East. In May, 1946, RBB was released from military
service. He returned to Washington, D.C. and got a job in an agricultural lab. He
used this time to catch his breath before returning to college.
00:29:04
While working for the Department of Agriculture, RBB decided he did not want to
return to the University of Maryland. He wrote several letters to schools like the
University of Illinois and the University of Wisconsin. His concern, like that of so
many veterans, was to complete school and get on with things. He was told at
Illinois that he could complete the program in two semesters so he elected to go
there.
00:31:13
End of side.
00:31:14
RBB discusses living in the Alpha Chi Sigma house. He discusses his interest in
music, which included pipe organ lessons at the University of Illinois.
00:35:00
The level of instruction at the University of Illinois was far higher than it had been
at the University of Maryland. RBB felt very challenged. The head of the
department was Frazier Johnstone, who served on a number of national
committees. RBB discusses a serious allergy he developed and the role Frazier
Johnstone had in dealing with the matter.
00:38:02
RBB tells how he first met Joel Hougen, the younger brother of Olaf Hougen, at the
University of Illinois. This was RBB’s first introduction to the Hougen family, who
would come to play an important role in his life. RBB discusses Ed Cummings,
who taught the course in high pressure processes. In chemistry RBB was influenced
by Bob Frank, who had received his Ph.D. at Wisconsin. Frank would come to play
a key role in RBB’s decision to attend UW. RBB notes that he was extremely
satisfied with the training he received at the University of Illinois.
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00:40:27
RBB received his Ph.D. at Wisconsin in chemistry. He chose chemistry over
chemical engineering because he thought it would be more challenging. RBB chose
Wisconsin because many of his fellow students at the University of Illinois
suggested it. Another reason was he had heard of Joe Hirschfelder and the Institute
for Theoretical Chemistry, which intrigued him. RBB enrolled at UW in September
of 1947.
00:42:49
RBB came up to Madison in the summer of 1947 and got to meet Bob Alberti,
Farrington Daniels and Joe Hirschfelder, among others. He was familiar with
Farrington Daniels’s book, and had hoped to work for Daniels at UW. RBB liked
Daniels a lot when he first met him, and he liked Alberti a lot, too. As soon as he
talked to Joe Hirschfelder, he knew that UW was his choice. JH had a way of
exciting your imagination, RBB said. The others RBB talked with suggested
starting slowly; JH suggested diving right in. RBB liked JH’s approach.
00:45:45
RBB said he spent much more time selecting a school for his undergraduate
training then he did for his graduate training. He moved into the Alpha Chi Sigma
house upon his arrival in Madison. He discusses life in the house. The Alpha Chi
Sigma house at the University of Illinois was mostly populated with graduate
students and was fairly subdued. The Alpha Chi Sigma house in Madison contained
mostly undergraduates and was unruly. RBB ended up staying only a year. He then
moved to the University Club. There was a German House on campus and RBB
regularly took meals there. When he was a faculty member, RBB frequently ate at
the French House. He enjoyed his association with both houses very much.
00:50:25
RBB said he took Joe Hirschfelder’s advice and put together a very ambitious
schedule of classes. JH insisted on people carrying four courses throughout their
graduate training. He wanted his students to have broad training in a number of
areas, which is what RBB did. JH expected everyone to be at the lab every
afternoon and all day Saturday. He might also call you up on Sunday if he had
something special he wanted you to do. JH had about 10-12 students doing
theoretical work, another 10 people doing experimental work and 5-6 girls who ran
computing machines (“computresses”). He also had several people working in the
shop. They were housed in the Chemistry Building during RBB’s first year, then
moved to a one-story cinder block building which was officially called “The
University of Wisconsin Naval Research Laboratory.” To those who worked there
it was referred to as “Joe’s little white palace.”
00:53:08
RBB says that JH was one of the first people on campus to go in for large scale
externally supported research. It took an enormous amount of time and effort on
JH’s part to negotiate these contracts. JH was very close to his students. He
circulated through the lab every day and talked to his students. He often organized
picnics and took people out to dinner. He was a very social person. JH was in his
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mid-30s at the time. He was not a polished lecturer by any means but his classes
were always exciting. This was due to the fact that JH knew virtually everyone in
his field. Therefore, he would frequently refer to conversations he had had with
world renowned figures, such as Linus Pauling and Robert Oppenheimer. It made
RBB and his fellow students see science as something that was alive and changing.
00:59:34
By and large, the students in JH’s research group were working on different
projects. RBB talks about one of the tasks JH assigned him. Though they varied
greatly, the assignments all dealt with the properties of gasses and liquids. “The lab
was your home,” RBB noted. It was not unusual, RBB says, for people prominent
in the field to stop in to visit JH’s lab. Thus, RBB and the others got to meet
everybody who was somebody in their field.
01:02:37
End of side. End of tape.
Tape 2
01:02:40
RBB first met Chuck Curtiss in graduate school, where CC was two years his
senior. CC would often fill in for JH in the classroom when JH was off on business.
RBB briefly outlines CC’s career before coming to UW. Bob Wentorf was another
person RBB met in JH’s research group. He was one of the first people to
synthesize artificial diamonds and other very hard materials. He returned to UW as
a Brittingham Professor for a year.
01:05:14
RBB briefly discusses Bob Buehler, who later became chairman of the Statistics
Department at the University of Minnesota. Another member of JH’s research
group was Paul Knaplund, the son of the UW history professor by the same name.
He went on to have a career at IBM. If people did not work out, JH fired them. He
did not tolerate people who did not perform.
01:07:02
RBB talks about some of the other courses his took during his graduate years. One
of his teachers was Farrington Daniels. He was a very busy person and RBB does
not think he spent a great deal of time preparing his lectures. Bob Alberti, RBB
notes, was a very fine teacher. Most of RBB’s courses were in physics and
mathematics. JH wanted his students to have strong backgrounds in those two
areas. RBB took most of his math courses from Robert D. Specht, whom he
admired greatly. He also had some fine teachers in physics, including Felix Adler
and Bob Sachs. One summer RBB took a course from Eugene Wigner, who was
JH’s teacher and who later won the Nobel Prize. RBB was very pleased with his
graduate training at UW. “It was very good.”
01:10:26
RBB graduated with his Ph.D. in June of 1950. He completed the program in less
than three years. After graduating, RBB had a post-doc in Madison for the summer
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of 1950. That was when he, Chuck Curtiss and JH began work on the book
Molecular Theory of Gases & Liquids (MTG&L). RBB believes that originally CC,
JH and two other people were going to write the book, but they never got started.
RBB had done some editing for JH, and apparently JH was pleased with his work.
Subsequently, he asked if RBB would be interested in working on MTG&L. One
other student, Ellen Spotz, was working on the book. ES, who was married, ended
up leaving and having a family.
01:13:30
When RBB was a Fulbright Fellow in Holland the following summer, he wrote two
chapters with Professor Jan de Boer of the Theoretical Institute for Physics. When
he returned to Madison in 1951-52, they completed the book. The following year,
when RBB was at Cornell, they read the proofs.
01:14:23
RBB notes that there were probably 6-7 female graduate students enrolled in the
chemistry program in the early 1950s.
01:15:03
The discussion returns to RBB’s year in Amsterdam. Jan de Boer, the professor
from Holland, had visited JH’s research lab in Madison. RBB really liked him and
was impressed with his work. He applied for a Fulbright Fellowship, received it,
and went to work for de Boer for a year. RBB discusses his Fulbright. He was able
to save enough money to take two trips around Europe. He discusses a trip he took
in which he revisited areas he’d fought in during the war.
01:19:12
RBB talks about how he learned Dutch. He conducted his studies in both English
and Dutch. He enjoyed working under de Boer and ended up writing two articles
with his head assistant. RBB stayed in Holland for a year and then returned to
Madison to finish working on MTG&L.
01:21:36
The discussion switches to MTG&L. Early on JH suggested that everybody write
what they know about. At this point the people working on the book included
Chuck Curtiss, JH, Ellen Spotz and RBB. When RBB returned from Holland, they
had a good amount of material but RBB did not think it very organized. RBB
suggested they sit down and prepare an outline. JH thought that unnecessary. He
found outlines constraining. JH and RBB argued about this, with CC serving more
or less as the referee. “The dispute was resolved by making an outline.” RBB also
argued for a table of notation so the notation would be consistent throughout the
entire book. JH rebelled at that as well, but once again RBB prevailed. This strained
relations a bit, but also resulted in them having to rewrite most of what they had
already written. RBB was the “organizer type” and JH was the “imagination type.”
CC was an excellent writer. He could sweep away all the clutter and aim at the
logical development of the material. There were lots of conflicts throughout the
course of the writing but by resolving the conflicts they were able to come up with
a first-rate book.
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01:25:56
RBB notes that Jan de Boer was incredibly organized and he stressed that trait with
RBB. He brought that back with him.
01:27:04
RBB is asked why MTG&L needed to be written. It was a rapidly moving field,
RBB notes, and JH and his students had done some of the key theoretical
development and some of the key computations. JH was the kind of person who
took things all the way from the fundamentals to the final calculations. There was
not any book like that available at the time. MTG&L was unique in that it tied
together equilibrium statistical mechanics, non-equilibrium statistical mechanics
and intermolecular forces—and the quantum mechanics that go into that. JH had
played a major role in the development of all three areas, and he knew everybody
associated in those areas. Thus, the time was right and the book was extremely well
received when it came out. The book was also important because it put UW, JH and
the Institute for Theoretical Chemistry on the map.
01:29:57
Soon after completing the book, RBB accepted a job in chemistry at Cornell. RBB
interviewed in several places and was offered several jobs before he settled on
Cornell. He was impressed with Cornell and he liked the courses they wanted him
to teach. At this point, RBB is planning to stay in chemistry. He listed some of his
colleagues at Cornell, whom he liked a great deal. He was assigned to teach
qualitative analysis, a subject he had hated as an undergraduate. This was RBB’s
first teaching experience.
01:33:53
End of side.
01:33:57
In the second semester, RBB got to teach an advanced course in quantum
mechanics, a subject which he really enjoyed.
01:34:30
Despite liking Cornell, RBB decided to return to the University of Wisconsin. On
April 1, 1953, RBB received a telegram from Olaf Hougen offering him a job at
UW. Since it was April 1, RBB assumed it was an April fool’s joke, so he did not
bother responding. A week later, RBB got an agitated phone call from Joe
Hirschfelder asking why he had not answered Olaf Hougen’s telegram. RBB’s first
reaction was to turn the job down, but then he got to thinking that he should at least
visit the department. He came to Madison in May and it was beautiful. He met the
other members of the department. Olaf Hougen then told RBB that he would be
retiring soon, and he was interested in hiring a person who could, in effect, replace
him. RBB went back to Cornell not having any idea what to do. At Cornell, the
chemistry people wanted nothing to do with the chemical engineering people, so
some of RBB’s associates could not understand how he could even consider
leaving chemistry and taking a job in chemical engineering.
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01:37:53
This was not the case at UW, where the two departments got along extremely well.
RBB also learned that he would have to continue teaching analytical chemistry if he
stayed at Cornell. Although he had come to appreciate analytical chemistry, RBB
still wanted to teach physical chemistry. After thinking the matter over, he made a
list of what he should take into account when making his decision. The results of
the list indicated that he should remain at Cornell. He finally decided that what he
really wanted was to come to Madison.
01:40:33
Before coming to Madison, RBB spent the summer at the DuPont Experimental
Station. He did this partly because his father had wanted him to give industry a try.
He got put into a research group that was working on the rheology of polymers,
something he knew absolutely nothing about. He enjoyed the people and the work.
01:43:02
The discussion returned to the job Olaf Hougen offered RBB. RBB speculates on
why OH offered him the job. Regarding MTG&L, RBB says the various chapters
first appeared as University of Wisconsin Naval Research Laboratory Reports.
They received a wide circulation, resulting in a good deal of feedback. The book
was published by Wiley in 1954. He discussed the editor from Wiley, Sarah
Redwine, who helped prepare the manuscript for publication. RBB discussed the
labor-intensive process of creating an index. RBB was on the faculty at Wisconsin
by the time the book was published. The book was well received. MTG&L has been
used primarily as a reference book.
01:47:38
The discussion returns to RBB’s year in Holland. In many ways he viewed that as a
pivotal time in his life. It was in Holland where RBB became good friends with
Fenner Douglas, a visiting professor from Oberlin College. FD’s specialty was pipe
organs. They traveled throughout the Netherlands and RBB had the opportunity to
play some of the best pipe organs in the world.
01:49:09
While in Holland, RBB had the chance to perfect his Dutch. He also had the chance
to travel throughout Europe.
01:51:27
The discussion returns to Joe Hirschfelder. One of the great things about JH, RBB
said, was that he did not recognize departmental boundaries. Nothing was
departmentalized with JH. RBB discussed the “family tree” he and some of his
colleagues made for JH’s academic descendants. These “descendants” came from a
number of departments. What RBB learned from JH was that “science is fun.” JH
also had a great deal of respect for engineers because of their problem-solving
abilities. RBB briefly mentioned the textbooks Olaf Hougen and K. M. Watson
co-authored. RBB expressed concern over the specialized nature of training in
today’s colleges.
01:54:43
End of tape. End of first interview session.
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Second Interview Session (December 18, 1997): Tapes 3-4
Tape 3
00:00:01
The session begins with a discussion of the COE’s facilities when RBB assumed a
faculty position in 1954. The Engineering Building was not yet completed. The
Chemical Engineering Department did not have enough space to house its entire
faculty. RBB was assigned space in the mechanics wing of the other building.
00:02:03
RBB describes the building of the separate units of the Engineering Building.
About half of RBB’s students did lab work. The labs, which were well equipped,
were located in Unit II, which was a new building at the time.
00:03:34
When Ed Lightfoot and RBB joined the Department, the size of the Department
jumped from six to eight. The oldest member of the Department at the time was
Olaf Hougen, who also served as chairman of the Department. Other members
included Roland Ragatz, Roger Altpeter, Wayne Neill, Charles Watson and Robert
Kirk. Hougen, Ragatz, Altpeter, Neill and Kirk had all been here during World War
II. Hougen, Ragatz and Altpeter carried the Department through the war years by
carrying incredible teaching loads. This continued through the immediate post-war
years.
00:06:26
The discussion turns to Roger Altpeter. RA started out by teaching Heat Transfer.
He switched over to Process Control, probably at Olaf Hougen’s urging. Robert
Kirk got his Ph.D. after the war. Olaf Hougen wanted RK to develop the area of
organic chemistry. He instructed RB to go to the Chemistry Department and take
all of the organic chemistry courses. RBB thinks this was a shrewd move on OH’s
part. He describes RK’s career after being denied tenure at Madison.
00:10:40
RBB discusses Olaf Hougen. OH was the type of person, RBB notes, who would
put his feet up on his desk and think; an all-too-rare commodity at the University.
He tried assessing directions the Department needed to go and would try to bring in
a faculty member, or encourage an existing faculty member, to go in that direction.
OH specifically hired Ed Lightfoot because he thought that bio-chemical
engineering was going to be one of the next major frontiers in chemical
engineering. It was not until two decades later, RBB notes, that most other
departments around the country recognized this need. When RBB and others
wanted to launch a course in Transport Phenomena OH was one of his staunchest
supporters, despite the fact that he was the oldest member of the Department.
00:12:30
When RBB arrived, the standard teaching load was twelve credits, minus one for
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every Ph.D. student you supervised. Teaching and supervising students were both
strongly emphasized in the Department. Regarding research, RBB says that when
he interviewed in Madison in the spring of 1953 nothing was said to him about
research or getting research support. The entire discussion was centered on
teaching. RBB thinks the COE and the Chemical Engineering Department were
both regarded as teaching organizations. RBB says he believes OH saw the
principle mission of the Department as the training of the undergraduate chemical
engineer. This attitude was shared by all of the departments in the COE at that time.
The feeling, RRB believes, is that everyone should be engaged in some kind of
research, but that this was not the ultimate aim of the professor.
00:16:36
In the Department of Chemical Engineering most of the professors supervised only
a handful of graduate students, with the exception of Robert Marshall, who had
about a dozen. RM was the only one who had a large group of students working on
a research project. Most of RM’s work was supported by industrial research grants.
He came from industry and he maintained good relations with it.
00:18:29
RBB started obtaining research support about two years after joining the faculty.
His first funding was from WARF. After that he got an NSF grant. There were only
a few people in the Department obtaining federal funding in those first years RBB
was on campus. Most people’s needs were taken care of by WARF, RBB believes.
It was not that difficult to be awarded WARF funds because there was not that
much research going on. The idea of having a large research group never
particularly appealed to RBB. He viewed himself more as a teacher than a
researcher. Returning to Cornell for a moment, RBB says it had a pretty good
research program. Still, the amount of research was small by today’s standards.
Also, the main aim of Cornell, and other colleges like it, was not to conduct
research but to teach.
00:21:35
The discussion turns to those who served as chairmen of the Chemical Engineering
Department during the post-World War II years. The first person to be discussed is
Roland Ragitz, who served as chairman from 1941-46, 1949-51 and 1955-64. OH
and RR alternated as chairman for a period of twenty-four years. OH’s primary
interests were the graduate and research programs, and planning for the future. RR
was interested in the undergraduate program, the careful organization of the
Department’s rules and regulations and related issues. OH and RR complemented
each other very nicely. When RR was chairman, the front office was a model of
organization. When OH was chairman, the front office was a mess. Personally, OH
and RR got along very well.
00:26:38
RBB believes that in the years when OH and RR alternated as chairmen, the
chairmen wielded a great deal of power. Since there were only eight members in the
Department, most decisions were reached through consensus. Votes were rarely
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taken. There was always a “team” feeling present in the Department.
00:29:03
In 1964 RBB became chairman, breaking the 24 year streak by OH and RR. The
two candidates for chairman were RBB and Roger Altpeter. Several ballots were
taken and RBB ended up winning by a vote of 5-4.
00:31:17
End of side.
00:31:20
RBB had only been a member of the Department for ten years when he was elected
chairman. He was not sure he wanted to be chairman, so he talked the matter over
with his father. He decided he might regret not being chairman if he did not give it
a try, so he accepted the chairmanship. RBB also thought there were several issues
that needed to be addressed, the major one being that the Department was terribly
understaffed. He collected and studied data from the campus and from around the
United States and concluded that the Department could easily hire 4-6 new faculty
members. RBB went to see Kurt Wendt and laid out the facts for him. KW said he
was absolutely correct and that if RBB found the people, he would find the money.
The Department hired four people during RBB’s tenure as chairman.
00:33:56
At the time RBB became chairman, large courses were frequently split up into four
or five sections. RBB proposed having one lecturer, who would be assisted in the
course by instructors. He did not like doing that but he thought it would help in
reducing the teaching loads. RBB also thought the time had come when people
should be encouraged to take leaves of absence. He saw this as a way for the person
to recharge his batteries. RBB also wanted to work on strengthening the
relationship between faculty and graduate students.
00:35:34
As noted earlier, RBB hired four people. Charlie Hill was hired from MIT, Stuart
Cooper from Princeton, Tom Chapman from Berkeley, and Jim Koutsky from the
Case Institute of Technology.
00:36:56
RBB found Dean Wendt very helpful. He was easy to deal with because he was
straightforward, honest and blunt. RBB learned early that one did not go to the dean
with complaints; rather one went with solutions. Whenever RBB went to see Dean
Wendt, he always prepared a statement of the problem and a statement of the
solution. In every instance, RBB found Dean Wendt extraordinarily well prepared
for these meetings. Dean Wendt’s attitude was always: “How can I help?” RBB
says this was the attitude of most people in the University at the time.
00:38:43
RBB was chairman of the Department for four years, at which point he decided to
step aside. During his last two years as chairman, he spent “an inordinate amount of
time” dealing with issues related to the antiwar demonstrations. RBB describes the
student demonstrations that took place in the Engineering Building. Most of the
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protesters were not engineering students. One of RBB’s jobs during this period was
to keep the engineering graduate students from getting in fights with the protestors.
00:42:17
Camden Coberly replaced RBB as chairman of the Department. CC encountered
the same problems as RBB. Academic standards were occasionally lowered during
this period because professors understood that students were having a hard time
studying, due to all the distractions. On the engineering campus, there was a spirit
of cohesiveness among the faculty, which RBB does not think existed in other parts
of the campus.
00:45:52
The discussion turns to the bombing of Sterling Hall. RBB was on a canoe trip
when it occurred. He learned of it from a magazine upon his return. RBB was not
surprised by the event itself, but he was surprised by the violence of it. There was a
dramatic change in the climate on campus after the bombing, RBB notes. The
attitude of many of the more militant faculty members changed as well.
00:49:20
The discussion returns to the chairmen of the Department of Chemical Engineering
who followed RBB. Regarding Camden Coberly, RBB said he found himself
disagreeing with him over most issues. Ray Bowen followed CC and RBB thought
he did” a pretty good job.” RB had been involved in campus-wide politics before
becoming chairman. RBB describes him as “a political animal.” He remained as
chairman until he took a job in the Shain administration. He later returned and
served as chairman again before leaving to become dean of engineering at the
University of Washington.
00:53:25
Stuart Cooper was effective in several areas. SC started a committee that visits the
campus every two years and makes suggestions aimed at improving the
Department. SC’s biggest problem was “that he just wants to do everything.” The
three chairmen who followed RBB all went on to have careers in administration.
This may have come about, RBB speculates, because of the emphasis on politics
during the years of the student protest movement.
00:57:16
The Department was forced to take on Camden Coberly and John Duffie because of
a ruling by Fred Harvey Harrington. They had been brought in by Robert Marshall
of the Engineering Experiment Station. Marshall approached RBB when he was
chairman and said he wanted them put into Chemical Engineering. The Department
debated the issue and ended up hiring them. Dick Hughes was added to the
Department later on in a similar way.
00:59:25
The discussion turns to grants. RBB recalls the time he told his father he had
received an NSF grant and his father said that universities were making a mistake
by accepting federal money. He went on to say that before long the federal
government would start exercising power over the university in a way it would not
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R. Byron Bird (#515)
like. RBB feels that his father was right, in that universities have become
subservient to the government agencies. This has led to a proliferation of
administers and red tape. Also, in order to insure funding, researchers will seek
funding in traditional areas rather than striking out in new areas.
01:02:34
End of tape.
Tape 4
01:02:36
RBB outlines the negative effects of federal funding on the behavior of professors.
One of the problems, he notes, is the tremendous amount of time that is spent
writing research grants. RBB also notes that too often a professor’s status is
determined by how much grant money he can secure for the university. “Cash or
crash” has taken the place of “publish or perish” among some of the younger
professors. Teaching, lab time, and the writing of textbooks has suffered because of
the quest for grants. This also creates “hot” and “cold” research areas, which may
be more the result of fads than anything. The same holds true for sabbaticals, in that
they used to be used to broaden one’s knowledge base but today are often used to
write grants.
01:06:23
The really heavy emphasis on research began, RBB believes, in the late ‘70s or
early ‘80s. The west and east coast schools led the way in this area. When RBB
arrived on campus, teaching was king; this is no longer the case. Some of the large
research groups in the College of Engineering (COE) began at this time.
01:09:30
The discussion turns to the deans of the COE. When RBB arrived on campus
Robert Marshall had just been moved from the Department to associate dean for the
COE. Olaf Hougen assigned RBB the three courses RM had been teaching. RM
was an extremely creative associate dean. He and Kurt Wendt complemented each
other quite well. As associate dean, RM did a lot of innovating. He started up the
nuclear engineering program and the solar energy program. He also started up a
program for identifying exceptional high school students. In the international field,
he started up the Monterey, Mexico exchange program. He was also very helpful to
RBB when he became chairman of the Department. RBB always appreciated RM’s
sense of style. He was also good in helping people who were not very strong.
01:16:32
When RM became dean things changed. Not having Kurt Wendt around and his
failing health may have been factors in his feeling isolated and becoming less
effective as an administrator. He also made the mistake of surrounding himself with
a small group of people who, in effect, insulated him from the rest of the College.
The group included Camden Coberly, Dick Hughes, Norm Huston and Clayton
Smith.
13
R. Byron Bird (#515)
01:18:32
When RM left, he became director of UIR. The two internal candidates who were
among the finalists to replace RM were Max Carbon and John Bollinger. Ray
Bowen might have been a candidate had he not left to become dean of engineering
at the University of Washington. JB was, of course, selected over MC.
01:21:38
The discussion turns to other staff members in the Department of Chemical
Engineering. RBB discusses Jean Lippert, who served for many years as the
Department’s secretary. She had many strengths, including dealing with foreign
students. Chemical Engineering also has had a succession of people in the stock
room including Stuart Schreiber, who served for several years. There is a small
departmental library, RBB notes, that is slowly being allowed to decay. The reason
for this, he says is the presence of the Wendt Library nearby. The Wendt Library,
he notes, seems to function effectively.
01:26:18
The discussion turns to the University’s chancellors and presidents. Regarding E.
B. Fred, RBB never met him but all the impressions he had of him were favorable.
RBB had few dealings with Conrad Elvehjem while he was dean of the Graduate
School. He found Elvehjem to be a person of very few words who made decisions
quickly then went on to the next problem. RBB gives an example of Elvehjem’s
decisiveness.
01:29:40
RBB only had a few dealings with Fred Harvey Harrington. He was opposed to
FHH’s idea that the campus should be allowed to grow to 70,000 students. RBB
found FHH difficult to talk to and not particularly friendly. Regarding William
Sewell, RBB did not get to know him during his chancellorship but he remembers
that Sewell was appointed chancellor at about the worst possible moment, because
of the student protest movement. He remembers the time Paul Soglin insulted him
publicly at a faculty meeting. RBB has gotten to know Sewell since then and he
likes him a great deal.
01:31:36
RBB had many dealings, all of which he enjoyed, with Ed Young. EY understood
the University culture and was well liked. Irv Shain succeeded EY. RBB calls him a
“splendid” chancellor. Of IS, RBB says he is “one of the most observant people I
have ever met.” RBB first met IS when IS was a graduate student at the University
of Washington. IS remembered these years much later, whereas RBB did not.
01:33:53
End of side.
01:33:57
IS was chairman of chemistry at the same time as RBB was chairman of Chem.
Eng. RBB also went to China with IS and others in 1979. RBB was one of twelve
professors who accompanied IS. RBB gives some examples of IS’s incredible
ability to remember people.
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R. Byron Bird (#515)
01:36:10
Donna Shalala followed IS as chancellor. RBB was extremely displeased with DS.
He did not think she had the qualifications to be chancellor. He objected to some of
her social programs and policies and disliked her “constant comments” about her
predecessor. RBB did think she was extremely good at understanding the politics of
being chancellor. RBB has had only a few dealings with David Ward, whom he
considers a huge step up from DS.
01:42:22
The discussion returns to Olaf Hougen. To OH, the student always came first. OH
was extremely kind to all visitors, especially foreigners. His best known book was
Chemical Process Principles, which he co-authored with Watson and Ragitz. The
books he wrote dominated the field for thirty years. The books were so good that
they drew students to Wisconsin. OH, RBB says, was a superb teacher. He had high
ethical standards and high personal standards of behavior. After OH died, RBB
wrote a memoriam which listed the ten standards of behavior OH exemplified. [A
copy of this memoriam is in the Oral History Project files.]
01:49:05
End of tape. End of second interview session.
Third Interview Session (January 15, 1998): Tapes 5-6
Tape 5
00:00:02
The focus of the discussion will be on RBB’s research. It starts with RBB
discussing the events that led to the writing of Transport Phenomena. The idea for
writing TP began when RBB had a job at DuPont in the summer of 1953. At
DuPont he worked with a group of people in the polymers area. They were trying to
solve problems for which the chemical engineers were not properly trained. When
he came to teach at UW, he began to see that there was a missing link in the
curriculum. Students were not being properly trained in the area of classical
physics—which is known as transport phenomena. At first, RBB did not do
anything about it, since he was still new on the faculty. A few years later, however,
when he was put on the nuclear engineering committee, it was decided that a course
in transport phenomena was needed. RBB drew up an outline for the course. The
course was sent to the Physical Sciences Committee, which not only endorsed the
proposal but asked why the course was not already being offered. RBB explains
why the course was not offered.
00:04:57
Around 1956, the Department met to discuss curriculum revisions. The Department
decided to begin a three credit course in Transport Phenomena for undergraduates.
The first course in Transport Phenomena was taught in the fall of 1957. RBB was to
prepare a set of notes to go with the course. At about this time, Warren Steward and
Ed Lightfoot said they would like to be involved in teaching the class.
15
R. Byron Bird (#515)
00:07:14
A debate took place as to whether or not to institute a class in Transport
Phenomena. Generally speaking, the older members of the Department, with the
exception of Olaf Hougen, did not support the class and the younger members did.
Many of the older faculty members realized that it was risky business to start a class
before a text had even been written. The vote ended up being 5-4 in favor of starting
up the course. RBB wrote the first 12 chapters for the course during summer. The
rest of the chapters were divided between RBB, Stewart and Lightfoot. They had a
rough draft of the book by the end of the fall semester, 1957. RBB notes that they
had tremendous support from Olaf Hougen on the project.
00:14:20
RBB discusses the backgrounds of Stewart and Lightfoot, which were different
from his. At first there were frequent clashes, but their youth and enthusiasm
carried them through. The resolution of conflict, RBB notes, always results in a
better product in the area of book writing. Once the course was understood, the
dissenters in the department came to appreciate the course. People in other
universities had been thinking along similar lines, although UW was the first to
incorporate a text. RBB names some of the other people who were teaching courses
along similar lines.
00:20:25
In the spring semester of 1958, RBB taught a course in the Netherlands in Transport
Phenomena. Hans Kramers had taught essentially the same course prior to RBB’s
arrival. By the end of the spring in 1958, Stewart, Lightfoot and Bird had a
complete, albeit rough, manuscript. The John Wiley Publishing Company had an
arrangement whereby one could put out one’s unfinished manuscript in paperback
form. By the time school started in fall, Notes on Transport Phenomena was
available. Wiley also made copies available to select schools, with the
understanding that professors and students would write critiques which would be
made available to the authors. These proved extraordinarily valuable. RBB selected
Wiley as the publisher because he had had very good relations with them in relation
to MTG&L.
00:25:17
RBB and his colleagues also sent a copy of Notes to K. M. Watson, who gave them
helpful feedback. RBB discusses a meeting with Watson relating to a problem in
the text. RBB, Stewart and Lightfoot spent the fall of 1958 and the spring and fall of
1959 redoing the book. RBB discusses how the revision process took place.
Transport Phenomena was finally published in the fall of 1960. RBB begins
relating an anecdote about a Dutch proverb that he wanted to include in the book.
00:31:14
End of side.
00:31:17
RBB concludes his anecdote about the “secret messages” he put in the book.
Initially, there were some objections to the book. Some thought the mathematical
16
R. Byron Bird (#515)
level was too high. The reviews were mixed. Tom Sherwood, a famous professor at
MIT who generally liked the book, called it “dangerous” because he thought it
might drive some students away from the more applied problems in chemical
engineering. The book stirred up a tremendous amount of debate and conversation.
This did not surprise RBB.
00:38:12
The discussion turns to Joe Hirschfelder and Chuck Curtiss’s reaction to Transport
Phenomena. RBB notes that in either the fall of 1949 or the spring of 1950 Olaf
Hougen asked JH and CC to give a course for graduate students in Transport
Phenomena in the Chemical Engineering Department. The material for that
proposed course ended up constituting the material for Chapter 11 in MTG&L. In a
sense, Transport Phenomena was an outgrowth of Chapter 11 of MTG&L but was
intended for undergraduate students and was to have an emphasis on solving
problems relevant to industry.
00:41:42
The discussion turns to offers RBB received from other schools during his years at
UW. RBB received several invitations during the course of his career. Sometimes
he went so far as to visit the school in question, sometimes not. At one point, he
offered to take a leave for a year, teach at the school that was interested in him, then
make his decision. The school turned him down. RBB discusses the time Stanford
pursued him.
00:47:03
The discussion returns to Transport Phenomena, which is currently in its 55th
printing. It also was translated into several languages. Sales have been steady, and
the official English translation has sold over 250,000 copies. RBB attributes the
success of the book to the care the authors took in preparing the book. A revision
was started in the late 1960s but never completed. They have had meetings over the
course of the past 15 years to discuss revising the book, but they have not yet done
so. RBB still hopes to complete a revision.
00:53:29
RBB discusses his early background in Dutch. He gave an informal course in Dutch
every year at the UW after his first visit to Holland. When he was in Holland in
1958, he began collecting Dutch grammars and things of that sort. When RBB
returned to Madison after his second trip, he began to write a Dutch grammar. He
finished the grammar text in about 1960. Around that time, the German Department
had hired William Shetter to teach Dutch. RBB soon got to know him and they
became friends. Shetter had recently completed a Dutch grammar which, RBB said,
was much better than his. They decided to complete a reader together. The reader,
titled Een Goed Begin, was published in 1963. It focused on writings by first-rate
authors. RBB and Shetter spend a year of two on the project. RBB enjoyed the
experience a great deal. Shetter has since evolved into perhaps the leading Dutch
grammarian in the United States.
17
R. Byron Bird (#515)
01:02:22
End of tape.
Tape 6
01:02:25
RBB continues his discussion of William Shetter, who left UW shortly after he and
RBB’s book was published. RBB discusses how he helped set up the Netherlandish
Studies Program in the German Department. He also wrote to several L & S deans
encouraging them to support the Dutch program. RBB discusses why he has
supported the program.
01:07:45
The discussion switches to RBB’s interest in Japan and the Japanese language.
RBB had a Fulbright Professorship in Japan in 1962-63. He studied Japanese by
himself before he went to Japan. He was disappointed after the year, however,
because he was still unable to read technical Japanese. The reason he had been
unable to learn technical Japanese is because he had been unable to learn the correct
characters for reading technical Japanese. He explains how he went about setting
up his research. Robert Marshall suggested the results of the research be published
by the Engineering Experiment Station. These reports were published in 1966 or
1967.
01:16:33
Ed Daub came to Madison around 1972. ED had done his MA in chemical
engineering. RBB discusses ED’s background, which culminated with a Ph.D. in
the History of Science. When Robert Marshall became dean, he thought the COE
needed to develop a program that involved an interface between engineering and
the social sciences. He thought that engineers did not do a good job of selling their
ideas to society and that society as a whole did not understand engineering. RM
thought ED would do well in this capacity. RBB discusses when and how he got to
know ED.
01:23:00
The enrollments in ED’s classes were low, and RBB talked about the possibility of
the two of them working together on a book on technical Japanese. ED had taught
chemical engineering for five years in Japan. RM was supportive of the
undertaking. ED suggested bringing in a Japanese scholar to assist them. Nobuo
Inoue came to Madison one summer and helped RBB and ED work on the book. In
one month they turned out a draft for the manuscript for the book.
01:26:30
They tried finding a publisher in Japan but were unable to. They approached the
UW Press and the Press was reluctant to handle the book without having a
co-publisher in Japan. The University of Tokyo Press agreed to serve as a partner in
the undertaking. The book, Comprehending Technical Japanese, was published in
1975. It was a reader and presumed that people had already learned elementary
Japanese. The book was published by the University of Wisconsin Press, printed in
Tokyo, and distributed jointly by the two presses.
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R. Byron Bird (#515)
01:31:24
The book was warmly received—albeit by a rather narrow readership. RBB
discusses who was most likely to use the text. Because of the book, Ed Daub got to
teach a course in technical Japanese.
01:33:33
End of side.
01:33:34
The publication of Comprehending Technical Japanese led directly to work on a
second book, Basic Technical Japanese. This book, which focused on technical
Japanese grammar, was also written by RBB, Ed Daub and Nobuo Inoue. RBB
discussed why he and ED decided to write the book, which was to get people
involved in the technical vocabulary and the technical writing from the outset.
01:37:56
The focus of this second book was entirely on reading, rather than pronunciation or
listening. It is a highly focused book. There is also an extensive discussion of
grammar, again focusing on the grammatical structures that appear most in
technical writing.
01:40:28
The book was started in the fall of 1986. The first book, Comprehending Technical
Japanese, had to be essentially handwritten. By the time work was begun on Basic
Technical Japanese, software had been produced which allowed them to type their
text in Japanese. RBB and ED hired a student to assist them and they were able to
produce a “camera-ready” book, which was a first for the UW Press.
01:49:06
The book was published in 1990, jointly by UW Press and the University of Tokyo
Press. RBB notes that he and ED had wonderful relations with the East Asian
Department. ED and RBB both took courses in the Department. They gave RBB
and ED their full support. There were several occasions when RBB would contact
Professor Akira Miura, who taught Japanese at the UW, and they would discuss
grammatical points that he found confusing.
01:51:51
RBB notes he had complete support from the Department of Chemical Engineering
on his Dutch and Japanese ventures. He says that one of the most important things
people in university settings should be doing is talking to each other across
departmental boundaries. There is not as much of that going on today as there had
been earlier in his career, RBB notes. He feels it is important that people should feel
free to be scholars and not just chemical engineers or linguists or whatever.
01:53:52
When RBB started to work on the first Dutch book he went to talk to Professor
Ragatz, who was chairman of the Department at the time. RBB asked if Ragatz had
any problems with him working on the Dutch book and Ragatz responded that he
did not, as long as RBB kept up on the other aspects of his job.
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R. Byron Bird (#515)
01:54:16
The discussion returns to the decision to write Transport Phenomena. The vote to
permit the course—and thus the writing of the book—was 5-4. RBB, Ed Lightfoot,
Warren Stewart and Olaf Hougen voted to allow the course. The question was who
provided the fifth vote? The answer: Robert Marshall. Roland Ragatz voted against
allowing the class probably, RBB speculates, because he thought the three junior
members proposing the course had not yet proven themselves.
01:55:12
End of tape. End of third interview session.
Fourth Interview Session (January 22, 1998) Tapes 7-8
Tape 7
00:00:01
The interview begins with RBB discussing his second Dutch book, Reading Dutch.
By the beginning of the 1980s, it was becoming evident that some of the readings
from Een Goed Begin were becoming dated. Instead of revising the book, they
decided to do a completely new one. WS had by that time become a professor at the
University of Minnesota. WS was the senior author. The book was published in
1985. It was not as successful as Reading Dutch. RBB thinks the reason may be that
the stories were too advanced for the beginning reader.
00:05:14
Of all the languages RBB has studied, it is in Dutch that he has been able to attain
the highest level of proficiency.
00:05:58
After Basic Technical Japanese was published in 1990, Ed Daub thought it would
be helpful to write a small series of supplements concentrating on special areas.
RBB discusses the four small books that followed. The one he co-authored, with
Sigmund Floyd, was on polymers. The books were published as a package in 1995.
00:10:54
The discussion switches to Dynamics of Polymeric Liquids, a book RBB
co-authored with Chuck Curtiss. After RBB had been chairman of the Department
from 1964-68, he realized he was four years out of date in his areas of expertise. He
decided, therefore, to “shop around” and try something different. He spent a month
in Japan visiting various people in the polymer field. Following that he went to
Hawaii for a month and read about polymers and thought about what he wanted to
do in the next stage of his career. RBB notes it is perhaps the most fruitful month he
has ever spent in his life.
00:14:14
Upon returning to Madison, he started thinking about how he could teach and
conduct research in this area. About a year later, in 1970 or thereabouts, Chuck
Curtiss, Millard Johnson and Arthur Lodge taught a course called Structural
Theory of Polymers. After that first course, Johnson and Lodge dropped out and
20
R. Byron Bird (#515)
RBB and Curtiss continued to teach the course. At the same time RBB was working
with two students, Bob Armstrong and Ole Hassager, on several of the ideas he had
developed while in Hawaii. He also was teaching a course in Macromolecular
Hydrodynamics, which, in part, dealt with the continuum theory of polymers.
00:16:01
RBB relates how Armstrong and Hassager approached him one day in his office
and asked if he would be interested in writing a book with them about polymeric
liquids. After discussing the issue further and preparing an outline, they agreed to
give it a try. They started work on the book in the summer of 1974. The book was
completed by the spring of 1975. One review noted that the book should be split
into two parts, an elementary part and an advanced part. Upon consideration, the
co-authors thought the book should be split up between the fluid dynamics part and
the kinetic theory part.
00:21:15
By that time RBB, Chuck Curtiss and Ole Hassager had begun to get some results
on some advanced molecular theory work. RBB thought it would be helpful to get
Chuck Curtiss involved in the second volume. The two resulting volumes were
independent of each other, but still closely related. The book, published in 1977,
was generally well received. It subsequently became a Science Citation Classic.
00:23:17
Because of the rapid changes in the field, the book, by 1984 or ‘85, was perceived
as becoming outdated. After three years of work, the second edition was published.
00:26:48
At present, RBB continues to work closely with Chuck Curtiss on improving the
second edition of the book. In addition, RBB is working on a genealogy book. He
has traced the Bird family back to about 1700.
00:29:24
The discussion turns to RBB’s teaching at the University. In his first semester at
UW, Olaf Hougen asked him to organize a completely new course in fluid
dynamics. RBB had never had a course in this himself. He ended up spending
10-12 hours of preparation for each hour of lecture time. Still, this was in a very real
sense the reading that he was going to make use of when he got down to writing
Transport Phenomena. The second semester he was asked to teach a course in
separations processes. This was also a course that he had never taken as an
undergraduate. Once again he was faced with doing an enormous amount of
preparation.
00:31:04
End of side.
00:31:05
RBB also taught a course in applied math that had previously been Robert
Marshall’s course. Working out the engineering applications of the applied math
was quite a challenge. RBB used Robert Marshall’s book, which he had
co-authored with Robert L. Pigford. Using the book gave RBB a new perspective
21
R. Byron Bird (#515)
on teaching math to engineering students.
00:31:54
RBB discusses some of the other courses he taught during his years at UW. Most of
his co-teaching was done with Chuck Curtiss.
00:34:16
The discussion turns to some of RBB’s students. He has mentored 41 Ph.D.
students over the course of his career. One of them, Bob Armstrong, has become
chairman of the Chemical Engineering Department at MIT. Other students
mentioned are Ole Hassager, Jay Schieber, Mike Williams, Arnold Frederickson,
John Slattery, Bob Prud’homme, Christopher Hill, Albert Co and Raffi Turian.
About half of RBB’s students went into teaching and the other half went into
industry. Most professors, RBB notes, have a smaller ratio of students that go into
teaching.
00:40:45
RBB discusses teaching. There is nothing worse than a bad teacher. RBB did not
want to make the same mistakes some of his bad teachers made. RBB feels very
strongly about not wasting other people’s time. RBB has always taken teaching and
the preparation of lectures very seriously. Three things RBB learned during his
teaching career is that you don’t bluff, intimidate or show off.
00:46:08
The question posed is has the emphasis on research and obtaining grants affected
research. RBB believes it has done enormous damage to teaching at several levels.
Expectations for young faculty members are different today, RBB notes. Olaf
Hougen said a professor’s main responsibilities were to the undergraduate and the
people of the state. Today, things are quite different. Young faculty members are
expected to get grants and bring in money. In order to continue getting money, they
have to show “productivity”—which means the publication of research papers.
What this means, RBB says, is that young professors spend a good deal of time
writing grant proposals and research papers based on the grant proposals. This
makes it very difficult for them to think very deeply about what they teach. RBB is
very pleased with the young professors in the Department because they still take the
teaching aspect of their mission seriously. The reason for this, RBB believes, is the
tradition within the Department and the care with which people are hired.
00:49:23
RBB says there are really five levels of teaching. One is teaching undergraduates,
where you have to teach a fair amount about pedagogy. At the graduate teaching
level, you need to think about getting across very difficult concepts and
encouraging critical thinking. Then you have the teaching you do when you go out
to industry, where you give short courses. The fourth kind of teaching is textbook
writing. The fifth level is the preparation of research tracts. RBB says he believes
all five levels are suffering at the present time and he explains why. RBB expresses
the need for innovative textbooks written for the undergraduate.
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R. Byron Bird (#515)
00:52:47
The discussion turns to committees. RBB enjoyed serving on the Physical Sciences
Executive Committee because it was a useful committee chaired by effective
people. There were other committees, such as the Committee for Student Life &
Interests, that he found to be a waste of time. RBB served on the University
Committee for a while. Serving on the committee took up an enormous amount of
time. RBB says he is not enough of a politician to enjoy dealing with the kinds of
problems confronted by that committee—such as the after effects of merger and
leave taking for child care. These were more or less “social science questions” and
were outside RBB’s normal range of interest and expertise.
00:57:29
Many of the problems the committee had to deal with seemed to have their genesis
in L&S. RBB thought L&S was too big and suggested that the college be broken up
into about five colleges. Since most of the people on the University Committee
were from L&S, they were not overly fond of that idea. RBB still thinks this is a
serious problem. He discusses possible ways of breaking up L&S. RBB notes that
the relationship between the chancellor, Ed Young and the University Committee
was excellent.
01:01:02
In 1979 RBB was invited by the chancellor to be a member of the group visiting the
People’s Republic of China. The group, RBB believes, was selected by Irv Shain
and Bob Bock.
01:02:08
End of side. End of tape.
Tape 8
01:02:09
RBB discusses the trip to the People’s Republic of China. The main task was to
identify the labs and research institutes with which the UW wanted to establish
exchanges. Another reason for the trip was to see how universities were set up in
China. A final reason was to visit UW alumni living in China and obtaining
information from them.
01:04:33
RBB did manage to study Chinese for a month before they left. He learned an
enormous amount during the course of the trip.
01:08:14
The research institutes that were under the aegis of the Chinese Academy of
Science were in pretty good shape, since they got nearly all of the money. Some of
the lesser institutes were in terrible shape. UW got hooked up by and large with the
best universities, resulting in us being able to recruit, in many instances, the best
and the brightest.
01:09:55
RBB said at first he almost did not go to China because he was not that interested in
visiting a Communist country. He saw the problems that resulted when everything
23
R. Byron Bird (#515)
was centrally managed. Their delegation was the first delegation to go to China
since the renormalization. Because of this they were given first class treatment
everywhere they went. They even got to go to the airport to welcome China’s
premier back from his visit to the United States.
01:14:20
RBB returned to China on two separate occasions. The first trip, taken the
following year, was to Taiwan, as a guest of the ministry of education. His job was
to inspect the chemical engineering departments in Taiwan. In January of 1982, he
returned to Shanghai to teach teachers for a month. Things were not as open as they
had been on the earlier trip. He had no opportunity to interact with the people he
was teaching and was essentially isolated from all other English-speaking people.
01:21:55
The discussion switches to honors and awards RBB has been given throughout the
course of his career. The first award to be discussed was his election to the
Wisconsin Academy of Sciences, Arts, and Letters. RBB is also a member of the
American Academy of Arts and Sciences. He enjoys the Academy because he gets
a chance to meet people from other disciplines. RBB is also a member of the
National Academy of Engineering. He was in the fourth or fifth group of people
elected to the National Academy of Engineering. In 1989 RBB was elected to the
National Academy of Science.
01:29:20
The discussion turns to RBB being awarded the National Medal of Science. He
discusses the rather unusual circumstances surrounding his election.
01:33:20
End of side.
01:33:20
RBB continues his discussion about the day he was awarded the National Medal of
Science.
01:36:11
RBB has been awarded several honorary degrees at colleges and universities
throughout the world. In 1977, he was awarded an honorary doctorate from Delft in
the Netherlands. The honorary degree was particularly meaningful because of his
long association with the Netherlands and his work on the Dutch language books.
01:37:20
On January 8, 1996, he was awarded an honorary degree at Kyoto University in
Japan. He had taught at Kyoto in the early ‘60s so this degree also meant a great
deal to him.
01:39:17
The talk turns to extracurricular activities. RBB talks about his family’s
background in music. He took his first music lesson at a young age and has been
involved in music since. He wrote his first music when he was in grade school. In
the mid-’70s be began writing one piece per year. His first piece was a fugue in four
parts.
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R. Byron Bird (#515)
01:44:05
Another interest is hiking and canoeing. RBB talks about the first time he was in a
canoe. Over time he became a committed canoeist. He talks briefly about some of
his canoe trips. He enjoys playing with puzzles and sends his friends puzzles that he
creates for Christmas.
01:50:37
RBB talks about the enchanted nature of his career—which he attributes to the
people he has been associated with. He goes on to talk about the collegiality of the
Chemical Engineering Department, the people he’s co-authored books with and his
graduate students and post-docs.
01:54:48
End of tape. End of interview session.
END OF INTERVIEW #515
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