1
SUPERIOR COURT, STATE OF WASHINGTON
COUNTY OF KING
2
3
STATE OF WASHINGTON,
HON. CHARLES MERTEL
4
Plaintiff,
11-25-03
NO. 95-C-05433-8 SEA
95-C-05434-6 SEA
5
vs.
6
GLEN SEBASTIAN BURNS,
and ATIF AHMAD RAFAY,
7
Defendants.
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9
10
VERBATIM REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS
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OPENING STATEMENT - DEFENDANT RAFAY
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13
APPEARANCES:
FOR THE PLAINTIFF:
ROGER DAVIDHEISER
JAMES KONAT
Senior Deputy Prosecuting
Attorneys
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15
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FOR THE DEFENDANT,
BURNS:
JEFFREY ROBINSON
SONG RICHARDSON
Attorneys at Law
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18
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FOR THE DEFENDANT,
RAFAY:
VERONICA FREITAS
MARC STENCHEVER
Attorneys at Law
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21
22
*****
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KEVIN MOLL, CSR
King County Courthouse
RM C-912
516 Third Avenue
Seattle, WA 98104
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CSR #MOLL*KA400P0
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KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
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(Jury in)
2
THE COURT:
Everyone, please be
3
seated.
4
you give your attention to Ms. Freitas, and she's
5
going to make an opening statement on behalf of
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Defendant Rafay.
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Ladies and gentlemen, at this time would
Ms. Freitas.
MS. FREITAS:
Thank you.
8
ladies and gentlemen.
9
night's sleep last night?
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Good morning,
Did you all get a good
I promise not to go
too long and will try to keep that promise.
11
Atif Rafay was the son of Tariq Rafay
12
and Sultana Rafay.
13
Rafay.
14
Atif intellectually, Sultana, the mother who gave
15
birth to him, and nurtured him as a boy, and
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Basma, the sister, who sadly quit talking before
17
Atif ever had the chance to know her.
18
He was the brother of Basma
Tariq Rafay was the father who guided
They were his family.
They were the
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only family that he had.
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that he found bludgeoned to death in their home.
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They were the family for whom he was not allowed
22
to grieve because he was suspected, interrogated,
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accused, and deceived by the Bellevue Police.
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25
They were the family
Atif's parents loved him very much, and
they were extremely proud of his
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KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
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accomplishments.
2
because of Basma's condition, he was the child
3
that they looked to to fulfill their own hopes
4
and dreams.
5
He was their only son, and
At 18 years old Atif was very dependent
6
on his family.
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his clothing, all of his food, his shelter, but
8
most importantly, they made it possible for him
9
to attend Cornell University.
10
His family provided him all of
A few days after his family was
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brutally murdered, the police suggested to Atif
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that maybe there were family problems, maybe he
13
wanted to get out from under a rock.
14
This is what Atif told the police when
15
they asked him whether or not he would have any
16
reason to want to kill his family.
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Bellevue detectives:
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Atif to the
"My parents never, never, never,
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never, never, never at all, in any way a problem
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at all.
21
the world.
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everything for me.
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-- I mean, how bad -- how could it possibly be
24
better for me?
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rock by now -- by now, I am out from everything.
They were the most supporting family in
They helped me out.
They -- they did
I know I -- how -- there's no
How can I be out from under a
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KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
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I am -- how -- now, now I have nothing."
2
That is what Atif told the police
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shortly after his parents were killed.
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Rafay was not involved in the brutal murder of
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his family.
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demonstrate is how the police can extract false
7
confessions from teenagers.
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9
Atif
What the state's case will
It took seven detectives from two
countries eight months to extract these false
10
statements.
Those detectives strategized for
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countless hours in an effort to figure out the
12
way to get Atif and Sebastian to make these
13
statements.
14
The lead investigator from RCMP, Staff
15
Sergeant Dallin, he kept a handwritten notebook,
16
and this is a page from his notebook from in
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July.
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those detectives were strategizing towards.
His notebook indicates what it was that
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After being unable to extract these
20
statements after many contacts with Sebastian,
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they were searching for a logical reason to
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confess.
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notebook.
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more about this undercover operation, and I'll
He puts an exclamation point in his
You are going to see and hear a lot
25
address it later on, but that is what it took.
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KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
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Those detectives worked day and night.
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They spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to
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produce for you the statements that you saw
4
yesterday, and that is the only evidence that the
5
state has to support their theory that Atif
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killed his family for money.
7
Now, you heard yesterday from the
8
state, from Ms. Richardson.
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focus my comments on the first couple days after
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the Rafays were murdered, on the Bellevue Police
11
investigation, on how it was that Atif and
12
Sebastian became suspected in this case.
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I would like to
Now I'll tell you up front.
Naturally,
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it would be natural to want to investigate the
15
next of kin, persons in the house.
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be natural to ignore exculpatory evidence and to
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focus solely on that person or those people when
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there's questions.
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It would not
I'd ask you to pay close attention.
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Some of the details I go into may not immediately
21
make sense why I am talking about them, but I
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promise that they will come together for you in
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the end.
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The state's theory of the motive and
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the statements that Atif made won't make sense
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KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
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when you understand Atif's life.
Atif's father
2
Tariq was a structural engineer.
He moved his
3
family sometimes when his work moved.
4
The family resided in north Vancouver,
5
British Columbia, from the time Atif started high
6
school.
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Rafay's work in Vancouver had ended and he found
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placement in Bellevue, Washington.
By the end of his junior year Tariq
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The family did not want to move Atif
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during his senior year, his last high school
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year, because they really had great respect for
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Atif's achievements and he was an excellent
13
student.
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So Atif's mother, Sultana, and his
15
sister, Basma, remained with him for his senior
16
year in Vancouver while Tariq Rafay lived in
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Bellevue.
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At the end of his senior year Atif was
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separated from his family for the very first
20
time.
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Cornell University.
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to Bellevue, joined Tariq Rafay, and they
He went to New York state to attend
His mother and sister moved
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purchased a family home in the Sommerset
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neighborhood.
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They were just settling into the home
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KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
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when Atif's freshman year at Cornell ended.
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chose to come home to his parents at the end of
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his freshman year.
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New York with friends.
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Atif
He didn't choose to stay in
He returned home, and when he got home
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him and his parents and his sister went on a
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family trip.
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where they visited relatives.
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to his family home in Bellevue, where he hooked
10
They drove to Alberta, Canada,
Atif then returned
up his computer and set up his new room.
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Yes, Atif did go to Vancouver to visit
12
friends.
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didn't know anybody in Bellevue, and he had taken
14
a couple of trips to Vancouver.
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All of his friends lived there.
He
When he came back from one of those
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trips to spend time with his family he brought
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his close friend, the co-defendant, Sebastian
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Burns, with him.
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It was during this visit that the Rafay
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family was killed.
It was during this visit that
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Atif's life was destroyed.
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Now, Ms. Richardson described in detail
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for you Atif and Sebastian's activities on the
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night of July 12th.
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about the early morning hours of July 13th, when
I want to talk with you
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KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
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Atif Rafay returned home.
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As he and Sebastian were driving toward
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his house, Atif noticed a light on, and he
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thought that is unusual.
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bed.
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they pulled into the garage, he had forgotten
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that.
Why are the lights on?
8
9
My parents should be in
But by the time
They walked into the house, heading
towards Sebastian's room on the main floor, where
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the garage is, and Atif sees his mother on the
11
floor.
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process this information.
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mother.
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he called out to her.
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head.
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mother was dead.
Something was wrong that he couldn't
He went over to his
He kneeled down, he put his hand on her,
Blood was around her
You saw the photograph.
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Atif realized his
He was in shock from that moment.
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Nothing in his life prepared him for what he just
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witnessed.
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ordinary evening out with his friend and his
He had just come home from an
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mother lies dead on the floor.
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He turned to Sebastian, who was
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standing in front of the room that he had been
24
staying in, he went over to Sebastian, he looked
25
at the room, and it was disshoveled.
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KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
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Atif ran upstairs to his father's
2
room.
He ran to the end of the bed.
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see blood on the wall.
4
was no breathing.
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and Atif was frightened.
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He could
The room was still, there
He called out to his father,
He was panicked.
He didn't want to see any more.
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backed out of his father's room into the
8
bookshelf.
9
He can tell by her moans that she, too, is
10
He now can hear his sister, Basma.
seriously injured.
11
He
She's behind her door.
Now, Atif says he felt cowardly, but he
12
didn't want to go in.
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her.
He didn't want to see
14
He told the police that he basically
15
saw blood, that you can't put a Bandaid on it,
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but he just couldn't take it.
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around in circles.
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He opened his bedroom, turned on his bedroom
19
light for a moment, he went to the bathroom, he
He was wandering
His bedroom was right there.
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ran water on his hands, he went downstairs.
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Sebastian was calling 911.
Atif kept
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thinking, "I need to tell them the address."
He
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thought, "I should go outside and look at the
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wall and see what it is."
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in his hand and he was able to report the
Sebastian had a bill
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KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
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address, and then he and Atif went outside.
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were not certain, or Sebastian was actually
3
concerned that someone may still be around and
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they may be in danger.
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They
Outside they waited for the police in
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the driveway.
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after it.
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officer passed the residence.
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Hromata.
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A police car came past.
They ran
They had to beat on the car as the
This is Officer
Officer Hromata was the first officer
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to have contact with Atif and Sebastian.
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not know who these two young men were, so he told
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them, "Sit on the curb," so they did.
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drove around, parked his patrol car in the
15
driveway.
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He did
He then
Officer Hromata will tell you that Atif
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and Sebastian were visibly upset, they were
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shaking, they were on the verge of tears.
They
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had difficulty talking, at times incoherent.
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said, "calm down."
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He decided to stay with Atif and
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Sebastian while other officers checked the
23
scene.
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relationship they had to the family.
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them, "What did you do tonight?
He
He asked them who they were, what
He asked
Where were
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KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
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you?"
2
about where they were when this happened.
3
That was the first time they had to think
Officer Hromata was reassigned and then
4
Officer Goodson, now called Pica (phonetic), she
5
stayed with them for 15 or 20 minutes.
6
She will tell you that Sebastian was
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very emotional.
8
ill.
9
He was bent over and he appeared
She asked him, "Are you okay?"
She says that Atif was subdued at that
10
time.
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Officer Lewis will describe Atif as subdued.
12
said that night that Atif appeared to be stunned
13
and in shock.
14
She turned Atif over to Officer Lewis.
He
Officer Lewis interviewed Atif in his
15
patrol car for almost two hours at the scene.
16
During that interview Officer Lewis carefully
17
asked Atif everything he did that night.
"Where
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did you go?"
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out to dinner?"
20
"Out to dinner."
"Where did you go
He will tell you that Atif never
21
volunteered information, but he answered all of
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his questions.
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answering questions.
24
Lewis about the movie curtain being stuck.
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didn't -- because the officer certainly wouldn't
He was stunned.
He was just
Atif never told Officer
He
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KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
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know to ask about that and Atif never reported
2
it.
3
Officer Lewis at about 5:38 in the
4
morning -- I am going to put up the chart here so
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you guys can follow along from the first day.
6
This chart is going to summarize Atif's
7
contacts with the police on July 13th, 14th, and
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15th, and we're talking about the 13th, so Atif
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goes to the police department, where he complies
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with every request the Bellevue police make.
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he asked is they give him some clothes to put
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on.
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his shoes, he is subjected to gunshot residue
14
tests, where they check his face and hands.
He gives them his clothing, he gives them
15
16
All
They are looking for blood with
Luminol.
They look at his glasses.
They looked
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at them completely.
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that they find ultimately on the very back of
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Atif's pant leg, which they assume is a contact
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transfer from where he was in his father's room.
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His room had blood everywhere.
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There's one spot of blood
He's then interviewed again, this time
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in an interrogation room, this time with
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Detective Gomes and a lead detective in the case,
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Detective Thompson.
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KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
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Finally, at about 8:30 a.m. he is given
2
over to the custody of Officer Molly McBride.
3
Officer McBride takes him and Sebastian, both, to
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buy some clothes.
5
the clothes off his back.
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suit.
7
Sebastian has literally given
He's wearing a paper
Neither one of them have shoes.
They purchase clothing and shoes for
8
the two young men.
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restaurant, a failed effort.
10
11
She then takes them to Coco's
Finally, after two
attempts, they end up at the Bellevue Motel.
You have heard a little bit about the
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Bellevue Motel.
13
There's not a telephone in the room.
14
been demolished.
15
The Bellevue Motel is a dive.
It's since
It no longer stands.
Atif and Sebastian, after spending the
16
entire day and night -- entire night, excuse me,
17
and the early part of the day with the police,
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then tried to sleep, after the worst experience
19
of Atif's life.
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Detective Thompson appears at their
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motel about 4:00 p.m. that same day, and he
22
wanted them to go back to the station for further
23
tests.
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to have just been woken up, they get up, they go
25
back to the police station.
They readily agree.
Although they appear
There they're
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KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
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2
fingerprinted, they're photographed.
Detective Thompson asks Atif to sign a
3
search warrant for his computer, which he does.
4
He volunteers his password so that the police can
5
access the information in the computer.
6
Detective Thompson at that point says to Atif,
7
"Have you contacted your relatives?"
8
9
I forgot to mention Officer Lewis
during this interview also asked Atif, "Do you
10
have any family in the area?"
And Atif told
11
Officer Lewis, "No.
12
that my parents know that I can think is a man
13
named" -- his first name was Waqurer, W A Q U R E
14
R, but he goes by the Americanized name of
The only person in Bellevue
15
Johnny.
This person's name is Johnny Saiyed.
16
Atif could not remember his name, but he told
17
Officer Lewis, "Johnny worked with my father at
18
Alpha Engineering.
19
them.
20
knows my relatives and he'll be able to contact
21
them."
You can reach him through
They'll know how to reach him, and Johnny
22
At 4:00 Detective Thompson asks Atif,
23
"Have you had any contact with your relatives?"
24
He's been asleep.
25
them, "I don't know their phone number.
Clearly he hasn't.
He tells
I don't
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KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
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know how to reach them.
2
in Alberta, they live in Pakistan."
3
I'll tell you, they live
What Detective Thompson does not tell
4
Atif is that after they dropped Atif off he found
5
Johnny Saiyed.
6
contacted Atif's relatives and they were on their
7
way.
8
9
He told her he had already
No one tells this to Atif.
At about 6:00 Atif was returned to his
motel with Sebastian.
All he wants to do is
10
sleep.
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can't sleep, all he has to console him for his
12
loss are the bare walls of the Bellevue Motel.
13
If he's fortunate, he can sleep.
When he
He does leave his motel late that
14
night.
15
distract Atif, they go to Blockbuster, they rent
16
a VCR and some movies.
17
His friend Sebastian, no doubt trying to
The next day Atif left the motel
18
again.
19
questions that Atif and Sebastian regularly wake
20
up about noon or noon, they're just in their
21
teens, not working.
22
not wanting to stay, walked a few blocks to Barns
23
& Noble.
24
25
Now, you'll hear from the investigation
Certainly after they awoke,
They were sitting on a couch.
Detective Thompson and Gomes appeared
at Barns & Noble and they want to interview Atif
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KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
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and Sebastian again.
2
They take Atif to a nearby park and they
3
interview him for three hours.
4
Atif readily complies.
The Bellevue police will tell you that
5
Atif and Sebastian were not suspects at this time
6
and that they had no reason to feel as though
7
they were suspected.
8
interview for you.
9
But let me describe the
The first hour of this three-hour
10
interview the detectives painstakingly go through
11
Atif's activities the five days prior to the
12
homicide, and let me tell you how Atif responds.
13
He tells them everything he can remember he did.
14
But they want to know what did you do on Tuesday
15
or Wednesday or Thursday?
16
is it now?
17
say, "It's Thursday, the 14th," and Atif said,
18
"What day did this happen?"
19
when his parents were killed.
20
Atif says, "What day
I don't know what day it is."
They
He doesn't know
He is a wreck, but he tries the best he
21
can to say, "I know we went to Barns & Noble.
I
22
know we went to Silver Platters."
23
important, because you will hear about his being
24
able to remember what he did the night of the
25
incident, but his inability to remember what he
This is
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KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
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did before.
2
That is the first thing.
Next the detectives want excruciating
3
detail about what Atif did inside of his parents'
4
house when he discovered the bodies, the three
5
minutes we heard about, when he was completely in
6
shock.
7
They're like, "Close your eyes.
8
happening.
9
door?"
And they're not patient about it.
You can see this
What hand did you use to open the
Atif says, "I don't know.
10
thinking about that.
11
"Don't think, don't assume."
I was not
I think my right hand."
So this is the
12
13
tenor of this interview.
But next the police want to talk about
14
Atif's sister.
15
the state about comments Atif made about Basma.
16
The police criticized Atif for not entering his
17
sister's room and offering her aid.
18
them, "I couldn't do anything.
19
didn't want to see any more.
20
of there," and they pressed him.
21
Now, you heard some comments from
He tells
I am a coward.
I
I wanted to run out
They're like, "Tell us the truth.
22
honest with us.
Did you hate her?
23
your sister?
24
didn't go in."
25
can say that I never really liked my sister.
Be
Did you hate
You must have hated her if you
So finally Atif says this:
"I
I
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KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
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was scared of my sister.
2
sister -- my sister is gross.
3
anyone to hear what I am -- what I am saying.
I
4
can tell this to my parents, but no one else.
I
5
didn't go in and see her, because I never go in
6
and see her.
7
it's not as if we have a real relationship.
8
parents took care of her."
9
10
My sister was -- my
I don't want
I don't hate her, but it's not -My
We'll be asking you in closing, these
are the statements that a young man would make to
11
police -- who had just killed his family.
12
had told the detectives the truth, the painful
13
truth, about how he felt about his older sister,
14
but that doesn't mean he killed her.
15
Atif
The police then question Atif about how
16
could he have known that his parents were dead.
17
They say, "Well, you didn't try to help them."
18
You saw the photograph, ladies and gentlemen.
19
You'll also hear from several officers who upon
20
entering the scene didn't make any efforts to
21
help them either, because it was evident to them
22
upon cursory review that they were dead.
23
this kind of back and forth questioning went on
24
for quite some time.
25
But
Detective Thompson then moves on to
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KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
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another area.
2
unusual for a victim not to telephone him and ask
3
how the investigation's going.
4
He tells Atif that it's very, very
Now I'd like you to review the chart
5
with me again.
From the time Atif's family was
6
killed, the few hours that he was separated from
7
the police, with police again, late at night and
8
asleep, Atif literally spent every waking moment
9
with the police.
But on top of that, at the
10
early part of this interview Atif did ask a
11
question.
12
father was injured, and Atif says, "Was my father
13
shot?"
14
only we and the killers know," and Atif rightly
15
points out, he says, "You told me you couldn't
16
tell me anything about the investigation
17
anyway."
18
do/damned if you don't.
The detectives talk about how his
They say, "We can't tell you, because
19
So it's kind of this damned if you
Detective Thompson has testified that
20
it wouldn't have made any difference to him if
21
Atif's demeanor was different, and we'll talk
22
about that some more, but keep that in mind.
23
Finally, during this interview the
24
police chastize Atif for failing to contact his
25
relatives.
They tell him that he is
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KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
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irresponsible.
Keep in mind Atif's family's just
2
been slaughtered the day before.
3
in mind that he told this officer he had no way
4
to contact them and this officer is going to make
5
contact for him.
6
interview, and he told this to Detective
7
Thompson, and he told Detective Thompson also at
8
4:00 p.m., which I don't think I mentioned, that
But also keep
He told them that during this
9
the family's phone numbers, the relatives he
10
remembered, were stored on speed dial of the
11
telephone and that Detective Thompson could reach
12
them by accessing those numbers, and Detective
13
Thompson told him he would do that.
14
The next day, after there really being
15
no real time for Atif to do this, he's accused of
16
not contacting his relatives.
17
the conversation goes like.
18
And this is what
Atif to Bellevue detectives:
"You said
19
-- you said that you could -- you could tell
20
them or maybe could you get" -- and then
21
Detective Gomes interrupts Atif.
22
in the transcript that is on the tape, Atif says,
23
"Well, you said you would call them."
24
25
But what's not
Then it says, "Well, we talked about
that, but you didn't -- I didn't promise that I
20
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
was going to call anybody."
2
So this is how the detectives are
3
talking to this 18-year-old who just lost his
4
family.
5
irresponsible.
6
relatives?
7
relatives, Atif, that just makes us curious,
They didn't promise him, but he is
Why didn't you contact your
The fact that you didn't contact your
8
concerned about why you didn't do that.
9
here's the more telling or interesting thing that
10
But
the police know, they don't tell.
11
Remember, they have contacted Johnny
12
Saiyed, and during this interview Atif's
13
relatives are in Seattle.
14
to Atif.
15
Thompson says -- Detective Thompson tells Atif,
16
"What would you say if I told you that your
17
family was in town?"
18
see them."
19
tape, "Your family's here and we have officers
20
interviewing them right now."
21
They don't tell this
You know what they say?
Detective
And Atif says, "I'd like to
Detective Thompson never says on that
Detective Thompson will tell you when
22
he dropped him off at his motel he told him that,
23
but he didn't tell him on this date.
24
know what he didn't do?
25
his relatives at 6:00 p.m., when this interview
And you
He didn't take Atif to
21
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
ended, and he didn't get his relatives in touch
2
with Atif when this interview ended.
3
those things happened.
4
None of
Now, Sebastian is interviewed in the
5
car.
When they return to the motel the police at
6
this point, because Atif says there's not even a
7
phone in our room, they said, "You could use a
8
pay phone.
9
are the kinds of things he was told.
You could call information."
These
But they
10
now put a telephone in Atif and Sebastian's
11
room.
12
Naturally Sebastian picks up that
13
telephone and he calls his parents in Vancouver.
14
They tell him and he decides to go back to
15
Vancouver, to go home.
16
decision.
17
know nobody, and the only people that had any
18
contact with Atif up to this point besides
19
Sebastian are the Bellevue police, and you see
20
that he can't trust them.
21
Now Atif is left with a
Do I stay here in Bellevue, where I
So Atif decides to go home to Vancouver
22
with his friend, Sebastian, where he has friends
23
and where he has support.
24
Sebastian leave the Bellevue Motel early in the
25
morning and they meet with Cindy Taylor-Blakely
The next day Atif and
22
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
from Canadian Consulate at the bus station, and I
2
will talk to you more about that in a minute.
3
They board a bus to Vancouver.
4
these things.
5
I'll talk about
I know you are going to hear them
-- I'll get some water.
6
One last thing happens at the park
7
interview.
8
somebody who did this is very close to your
9
family, and you know what?
10
Detective Gomes tells Atif that
I think you know who
it is.
11
Gomes then asks Atif, what if it was a
12
family member?
13
for a minute and tell you a little bit about
14
Detective Thompson.
15
led a homicide investigation before this one.
16
fact, Detective Thompson had very little
17
experience investigating homicide cases before
18
the Rafay case, and this was the first triple
19
homicide in Bellevue when it occurred, and there
20
just weren't that many homicides in Bellevue.
21
Now, I am just going to back up
Detective Thompson had never
In
Another thing about Detective Thompson,
22
he didn't get this assignment obviously because
23
of his experience, he got it because it was his
24
turn in the rotation.
25
death, it could be a suicide or anything, the
Every time there's a
23
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
detectives just rotate.
2
So he finds himself in charge, leading
3
the biggest homicide investigation ever in
4
Bellevue.
And very shortly, almost immediately
5
after he's assigned this investigation, he
6
believes that Atif and Sebastian are guilty.
7
And you know that's the case, because
8
on this day, about 9:00 a.m., he sends officers
9
to the Big 5 Sporting Goods store in Bellevue to
10
have them investigate whether or not Atif and
11
Sebastian purchased a baseball bat from them.
12
They didn't, but that just shows you where
13
Detective Thompson's mind was, and Detective
14
Thompson's belief, his belief that these two
15
young men were involved, shaped the investigation
16
that followed, or the lack of investigation that
17
followed.
18
Detective Thompson has said that by the
19
14th he had some suspicions about Atif and
20
Sebastian.
21
some concerns.
22
concerns were, and then you hear the facts and
23
decide, and I am going to help you decide whether
24
or not those concerns were valid.
25
They were not suspects, but he had
I am going to tell you what his
The first concern that Detective
24
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
Thompson states about why he felt that Atif and
2
Sebastian were suspicious was that Atif lacked
3
emotion.
4
Now, I've talked to you about the
5
officers who first encountered Atif and how all
6
of that transpired.
7
We know that the very first officer
8
that observed him said they were visibly upset,
9
they had trouble speaking, they were shaking,
10
they were on the verge of crying.
11
important, because Detective Thompson didn't
12
talk, or at least during that initial interview
13
Officer Lewis -- or Officer Hromata, he had
14
suspicions the next day, but he didn't know about
15
them and their responses until -- interestingly,
16
when he did interview them their stories changed
17
a little.
18
now Atif and Sebastian are suspects.
19
what?
20
contact with Atif and Sebastian so we know what
21
they observed that night, despite what they said
22
subsequently.
23
Now, this is
He kind of backed off that, because
But guess
We had reports from the night they had
Detective Thompson -- and this is why I
24
was telling you before about the interview --
25
finds it suspicious that Atif can't tell him with
25
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
specificity where he was on which days with the
2
same kind of detail that he can tell him where he
3
was the night his family was bludgeoned in their
4
home.
5
We talked about this.
From the very
6
first moment he had contact with the police, he
7
didn't volunteer, they asked, "Where were you
8
tonight?"
9
hours in that Bellevue Motel.
You can imagine those bleak, dreary
Atif planned in
10
his mind where he was when his family was
11
killed.
12
What was he doing?
He knows where he
13
was that night, and the fact that he can't with
14
the same kind of detail recall where he was five
15
days before this shocking event, that was one of
16
Detective Thompson's reasons to suspect that Atif
17
was involved in the brutal killing of his
18
family?
19
He also said that he found it
20
suspicious that Atif and Sebastian would remember
21
everywhere they were, and Ms. Richardson talked
22
to you about this briefly yesterday, but the fact
23
of the matter is every single witness, none of
24
them will tell you, you will not hear that they
25
did anything unusual.
They remembered, from one
26
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
witness, because Atif is dark, Pakistani, and
2
Sebastian's a tall man at that point in
3
Bellevue.
4
One of the guys said he just wasn't
5
usual, the usual people you see in Bellevue, so
6
they remembered.
7
right away with photographs.
8
people last night?
9
They also checked the next day
Did you see these
People just remembered.
Detective Thompson felt that Atif and
10
Sebastian were uncooperative toward the Bellevue
11
investigation.
12
were asked, and finally they had enough.
13
no evidence and you won't hear evidence that they
14
didn't cooperate.
15
when they were in Bellevue with the Bellevue
16
detectives.
17
They did every single thing they
There's
They cooperated in every way
Remember this is Detective Thompson's
18
perceptions as of July 14th, the next day.
19
They're uncooperative, and remember, Atif was
20
interviewed for six hours at that point.
21
been very forthcoming with the police.
22
He had
Detective Thompson mentions again that
23
Atif never contacted the police, but we talked
24
about that.
25
time.
I mean, he was with them all the
Why would he?
And they wouldn't tell him
27
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
anything anyway, and Detective Thompson feels
2
it's very suspicious that Atif has not contacted
3
his relatives, and I am going to go over this
4
with you carefully because you are going to hear
5
evidence and it must seem that this has been a
6
long time or there's some reason that this
7
matters, but this is what happened.
8
these are the circumstances under which Atif
9
failed to contact his relatives, and I just want
10
11
That is --
to make sure that is very clear.
The phone numbers were under the
12
control of the police.
13
contact him, and the next day he didn't contact
14
his relatives.
15
They told him they would
Now, finally Detective Thompson becomes
16
really convinced that they're involved, because
17
they leave Bellevue without telling the Bellevue
18
police -- mind you, he'll tell you, they didn't
19
tell the police.
20
Cindy Taylor-Blakely, apparently.
21
that they were suspicious because they left
22
without telling anybody and they didn't attend
23
Atif's family's funeral.
24
25
He didn't know about
He'll tell you
Well, let's talk about the funeral.
Atif and Sebastian made their decision, contacted
28
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
Sebastian's parents, contacted the Canadian
2
Consulate.
3
you that on this date, the 14th, she spoke with
4
Lieutenant Mott of the Bellevue Police
5
Department.
6
and they are free to leave.
7
Now Cindy Taylor-Blakely will tell
He told her they are not suspects
The next day, when she knows they're
8
leaving and when she talks to Lieutenant Mott
9
again and she tells him, "Atif Rafay's going to
10
leave, he's going to stay with Sebastian Burns'
11
family in Vancouver," and then Lieutenant Mott
12
tells her they're free to leave and they're not
13
suspects.
14
well, he told her, "I can't tell you where
15
they're staying for privacy reasons, but they're
16
at a motel of their choosing."
17
you are going to hear, too, is that on the 13th,
18
this day, two friends of Atif's drove down from
19
Vancouver, knowing that he had no family in the
20
area, they were coming to pick him up, and they
21
talked to a detective at the Bellevue Police
22
Department and they wanted to find Atif, and that
23
detective said, "They are someplace for their own
24
protection," and they would not tell Atif's
25
friends where he was.
But on the 14th what he told her as
And another thing
29
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
Those friends left a number.
Atif
2
never got that.
3
they ever gave Atif this information.
4
interview with those friends was tape-recorded,
5
but those tapes no longer exist, so we can't be
6
certain what the conversation was.
7
You won't hear any evidence that
Also that
It was natural for Atif to escape from
8
this horrible experience to go where he had
9
support, to get away from that sort of
10
treatment.
11
police to suspect him and question him, but he
12
didn't know that.
13
trying, and this is how they treat him.
14
It may be natural for the Bellevue
He was 18 years old.
He was
Detective Thompson found out that the
15
community had organized a funeral for Atif's
16
family.
17
had no better luck in trying to reach Atif than
18
did anybody else.
You have to assume that the community
19
His relatives hadn't contacted him.
20
His friends weren't able to get ahold of him.
21
There was Atif's family, but police didn't know
22
about it until 10:00 a.m.
23
is in town, and now we know that they went to
24
Atif's motel Friday morning, but he was already
25
gone when they went, and when police realize that
Atif's extended family
30
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
Atif is gone, that he left, they contact customs
2
and border patrol and they say, "Would you please
3
check on Atif and Sebastian's welfare?
4
really concerned about them."
5
patrol agents do this.
6
We're
And so the border
They stop, they get on the bus, "Are
7
you guys okay?"
"We're fine, we're good."
Cindy
8
Taylor-Blakely met them at the bus to make sure
9
their paperwork's in order.
But you know what
10
Detective Gomes didn't ask the border agents to
11
tell Atif?
12
that his family's funeral was that day in
13
Bellevue.
14
not one witness will tell you that he knew about
15
his family's funeral.
16
conditions I've described.
17
That his family was in Bellevue and
Atif left and he didn't know that, and
He left under the
Now, I talked to you earlier about this
18
Detective Thompson actually testified.
19
what if Atif had acted differently?
20
have made a difference to you in your opinion
21
that he was involved?"
22
more questions?"
23
said, "No, that wouldn't matter."
24
the reasons he gives, but they're not really the
25
reasons -- there was no reason.
"No."
"Well,
Would that
"What if he asked
Detective Thompson flat out
So these are
There was no
31
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
evidence, and you have heard this, there's no
2
evidence from the Bellevue scene that indicates
3
that Atif and Sebastian were involved.
4
all of the evidence indicates they were not.
5
They were not involved.
6
In fact,
It looks like what Detective Thompson
7
did not do, because he has the evidence, it's
8
counter-indicating, he's got the neighbors that
9
say they heard sound, and they definitely heard
10
them at a time when Atif and Sebastian could not
11
have been there.
12
and I am not going to go back over all of that.
Ms. Richardson went over this
13
But Detective Thompson interviewed
14
those neighbors, or the Bellevue police did,
15
three times.
16
were they really trying to find a way to make
17
what the neighbors were saying fit with their
18
beliefs?
19
Were they really that interested or
Detective Thompson never took
20
photographs of the neighbors' houses and its
21
proximity to the Rafays' house.
22
Richardson talked to you about what they heard
23
and what they saw.
24
So Ms.
Let me show you how close they lived.
25
This first photograph, and it's difficult, I am
32
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
going to get closer, on the left side is the
2
Sidells' home and on the right side is the Rafay
3
home.
4
going to look at that next, that curves up and
5
runs parallel with Rafays' backyard.
There's actually a driveway, and you are
6
I've got a number of photographs.
The
7
next one from the top left you can see the garage
8
of the Sidell home.
9
Mr. Sidell's car was in front of that garage.
10
The driveway goes up and
The next photograph, this is standing
11
at the garage, you can see that is the garage you
12
see in the picture, and unfortunately there's all
13
this construction going on, but Mr. Sidell's car
14
would have been right there.
15
You can see a fence on the right side,
16
and that is where the Rafay home would be.
In
17
the next photograph we're going to look from that
18
last photograph that we were just looking at
19
facing the other direction, looking back down the
20
driveway.
21
The fence on the left, we're going to
22
look over the fence in the next photograph, and
23
that is the Rafay home.
This is the far left --
24
I don't know the directions, the far left-hand
25
side of the Rafay home, and the next photograph
33
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
shows a little view, and on the right of the next
2
photograph, this is the right, this is the fence
3
at the driveway, and that would be Basma's
4
bedroom.
5
Basma's bedroom when he heard the sounds that he
6
heard.
7
That is how close Mr. Sidell was to
The next photograph -- these next two
8
photographs are going to show the relationship
9
between the Rackley home and the Rafay home.
10
This one's farther back, and I thought I had
11
another one closer and I don't know that I did.
12
You can see the next one.
13
farther back.
14
home on the other side of the Rafay home.
15
have some idea when we talk about these
16
neighbors, this is where they were in
17
relationship to the noises that they reported
18
hearing.
19
That is actually
So anyway, that is the Rackley
So you
And finally, the other thing Detective
20
Thompson didn't do is pursue any lead that didn't
21
support what he believed.
22
carefully went over the confidential informant's
Ms. Richardson
23
tip about a contract for a Pakistani family that
24
lived in Vancouver that now lived in Bellevue,
25
Washington, and that informant had gotten that
34
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
information prior to the Rafay family being
2
killed?
3
information.
Detective Thompson did not pursue that
4
I have one more area I'd like to talk
5
about with Detective Thompson.
6
Thompson's recollection.
7
believes that his perceptions about Atif and
8
Sebastian's demeanor and behavior were accurate.
9
He believed that he was accurate at the time.
10
That is Detective
Detective Thompson
He similarly believes that his
11
recollection about what happened on July 13th,
12
14th, and 15th, 1994, is accurate as well.
13
You'll hear that Detective Thompson
14
does not remember events accurately.
15
flip-flopped on some very important issues in
16
this case.
17
He has
On December 10th, 2002, almost a year
18
ago, the defense interviewed Detective Thompson,
19
and Detective Thompson stated in an interview
20
that Atif Rafay did not want the Bellevue
21
detectives to contact his relatives.
This is
22
what he told us.
23
He told us he didn't want them to know,
24
Atif did not want us to get in touch with his
25
relatives.
35
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
During that same interview, after he
2
reviewed his notes and in response to questions
3
by defense, Detective Thompson then said, "I can
4
see that he did give me the name of family in
5
Canada, and he told me at that time that he had
6
not contacted them."
7
When specifically asked, "Did Atif not
8
want you to contact his relatives?"
9
Thompson says, "He never told me that he didn't
10
11
Detective
want me to contact them."
All right, now, that is a simple
12
mistake, right?
He didn't remember right, he
13
cleared it up.
14
23rd, Detective Thompson testified in pretrial
15
hearings in this case, sworn testimony in front
16
of the same judge, and this is what he said about
17
the same subject under oath, swearing to tell the
18
truth, he said, "Well, I know that it happened
19
the first day we were at the police station.
20
wanted -- that is the first day.
However, six months later, on May
We
We wanted to
21
get ahold of his family, and I think Detective
22
Gomes spent more time with this, but I know I was
23
involved in that.
24
family to let them know what happened."
25
We need to get ahold of your
And then Mr. Konat asked, "Is that a
36
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
typical part of the police role when you discover
2
a homicide in your jurisdiction?"
3
Thompson said, "Yes."
4
And Detective
Then Mr. Konat said, "Did he provide
5
the name of his family contacts?"
6
Thompson said, "No."
7
And Detective
Then Mr. Konat asked, "Why not?"
8
Detective Thompson said, "He did not want his
9
family contacted.
10
Canada.
11
too.
12
know what happened?
13
He said they lived in Eastern
This became a center of concern for us,
Well, why would you not want somebody to
These people need to know."
Now, Detective Thompson falls back on
14
his original recollection.
We had discussed this
15
with him, we had clarified it for him, and yet he
16
still testified under oath to this.
17
important for you as jurors when you listen to
18
Detective Thompson's testimony, you are going to
19
have to judge his credibility.
This is
20
Another thing Detective Thompson
21
testified to, there's a number, but just a
22
couple, that is important, was Detective Thompson
23
got on the witness stand and swore that Atif
24
Rafay's aunt told him that she left a note on the
25
motel room door of Atif Rafay's motel on July
37
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
14th, says this under oath.
On cross-examination
2
it was revealed that what actually was told to
3
Detective Thompson, not as he testified weeks
4
later, seven months later, was that Atif Rafay's
5
aunt left a message at the motel.
6
when, just a message at the motel, not a note on
7
the door.
8
you will hear that they did not know where Atif
9
was staying and they did not go to his motel on
We don't know
That is what, in fact, happened, but
10
the Friday morning after Atif left.
11
the lead detective has testified under oath in
12
the past.
13
This is how
The state has offered you one incident
14
from Atif's life after his family was killed to
15
support that he had a desire for money, that he
16
wanted something more than he had when his family
17
was alive.
18
Atif had all of his needs met.
His
19
family loved him.
He was getting the education
20
he wanted.
21
he killed his family so he could take a road trip
22
in a rented Mustang.
23
Rushmore three months after his family was
24
killed.
25
friend, Sebastian, and he told the border patrol,
The state will have you believe that
He was going to Mt.
He was taking a vacation with his
38
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
"I got this money from my parents."
2
did.
3
explanation as you are crossing the border?
4
reported the money.
5
did you get the money?"
6
finally they told the truth, and they gave the
7
border patrol Detective Thompson's card and said,
8
"Call Detective Thompson," and they did, and
9
Detective Thompson said, "There's no reason to
10
Well, he
Would you want to go into lengthy
"I got this money."
"Where
When it got complicated,
hold them," and they were free to go.
11
If you want to conclude that maybe Atif
12
Rafay at 18 years old was irresponsible with
13
money?
14
had a lot of cash.
15
spent it.
16
of money for a vacation.
17
He
He didn't have a credit card.
He just
We don't even know if he
Maybe he just thought he needed a lot
Who knows.
Now, you saw the undercover operation
18
video.
That was the one contact that one time
19
that Atif ever had any direct contact with Al and
20
Gary, but you will hear that Atif was kept
21
apprised of Sebastian's relationship with Al and
22
Gary from the very beginning.
23
this through wire taps.
24
talking.
25
Atif.
The RCMP knows
They overheard them
They also expected Sebastian to tell
They were hoping that he would.
39
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
Even Mr. Davidheiser talked about a
2
time where they said, "Al and Gary."
So clearly
3
Atif was aware of what was happening with
4
Sebastian, Sebastian's fears, Sebastian's concern
5
about this undercover operation, and Jimmy
6
Miyoshi will tell you that before he met Al and
7
Gary, Sebastian had told him all about them and
8
that they were afraid of Al and Gary.
9
didn't know what they were going to do.
They
10
It is clear that when Atif meets Al and
11
Gary on the 19th, he knows who they are, he's not
12
-- he's met by strangers and he knows who they
13
are and he knows what they want.
14
Al made it clear to Sebastian in all
15
the prior scenarios that he was concerned mainly
16
about two things.
He was concerned that Atif was
17
going to rat Sebastian out, Sebastian in turn
18
would rat out Al.
19
solid?
20
Could he stand up to this?
21
Atif?
So he wanted to know, was Atif
Could he really stand the pressure?
What kind of guy was
And Atif knew this.
22
And Al was also concerned that there
23
would be evidence, right?
That -- he says this,
24
you'll hear this a lot.
25
to turn up and then you are going to go down and
Some evidence is going
40
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
I am going to go down.
2
So Atif knows two things that he needs
3
to convey to Al, he's solid and that there's no
4
evidence down in Bellevue.
This is his job and
5
he needs to be persuasive.
These guys are going
6
to take care of him if he's not persuasive.
7
Listen, face it.
There is no good way
8
or nice way to falsely confess to killing your
9
family.
But what Atif says is very telling.
He
10
tells him that Sebastian and I are put in this
11
position.
12
put in this position because the Bellevue police
13
lead the media to believe that they ran away,
14
that they did all these things they didn't do,
15
their faces are plastered all over the media.
Well, they were, they were.
They were
So
16
Atif takes what's true, he's a very verbal,
17
clever guy, and he takes what's true and he tells
18
them we were put in this position.
19
lie to you.
20
that is what he says, and he does what he
21
believes he needs to do.
We have to
And that is what he's saying and
22
Sebastian and Atif, these guys aren't
23
cool, and Al and Gary took them for a ride, and
24
they bought it every step of the way.
25
believed they would be killed.
They
41
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
Finally, I would like to talk with you
2
about Jimmy Miyoshi.
3
with Atif and Sebastian on July 31st, 1995.
4
was interrogated, and you will hear, I believe,
5
that interrogation.
6
unlike the U.S., where you say, "I don't want to
7
talk to you anymore."
8
talking to you, and they didn't.
9
Jimmy Miyoshi was arrested
It was lengthy.
He
It was
They don't have to quit
They told Jimmy Atif and Sebastian are
10
toast.
They're going to the U.S. to face the
11
death penalty.
12
this undercover stuff.
13
what they say, he knows why they say it, and he
14
tells them the truth during that interrogation.
And Jimmy was involved in all
He knows what they said,
15
He tells them, "We lied to Al and
16
Gary."
17
and what they did.
18
to choose.
19
with us."
20
am telling you the truth.
21
don't want the truth.
22
to tell you they're guilty."
23
interrogation on the 31st.
24
25
You know, he tells them why they did it
But they tell him, "You need
You are either with them or you are
Jimmy held up.
He said, "You know, I
It sounds like you
It sounds like you want me
This is his
About a month later, after he's given
immunity, Jimmy changes his story, and he made
42
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
several statements, all of them contradictory,
2
and Ms. Richardson talked to you about those.
3
They're not reasonable.
4
Jimmy then moved to Japan.
Jimmy
5
Miyoshi is now Hiro Shikera (phonetic).
Jimmy
6
resisted every effort to bring him back to
7
testify at this trial and he did that because he
8
lied with his immunity agreement.
9
the truth and he didn't want to have to come to
He didn't tell
10
court.
And you know what finally got him here?
11
And let me tell you another thing Jimmy said
12
about that immunity agreement.
13
no idea it would last that long.
He said, "I had
I would never
14
do that again, knowing what I know about it now.
15
I wish I had never entered into that," because
16
this is what happened to Jimmy Miyoshi.
17
These prosecutors contacted Jimmy's
18
employer nine years after all this is out of his
19
life and he's moved on and working in Japan for a
20
large U.S. corporation with a division in Japan,
21
a corporation that is concerned about its image
22
and reputation.
23
They contacted his employer and his
24
employer told Jimmy, "You know what?
You need to
25
take some time off of work until you get this
43
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
straightened out, and we'll need a letter from
2
the prosecutor saying that you satisfactorily met
3
your obligations before you can come back to
4
work."
5
testifying and he got his letter.
6
in Bellevue with Atif and Sebastian.
7
doesn't know any more, what the truth is.
8
what Jimmy's always known is what's best for
9
Jimmy.
10
Magically, a week later Jimmy was here
Jimmy wasn't
Maybe he
But
When he was arrested on July 31st, he
11
was -- he cared about his future and he did what
12
was best for Jimmy.
He never thought it would go
13
this far.
14
is the way the Rafay family was murdered.
15
The most telling thing about this case
The state is telling you this was a
16
crime committed for money.
17
doesn't support that contention.
18
Basma were killed, but Tariq Rafay was targeted.
19
He was more than killed, and unfortunately you
20
are probably going to have to see these kinds of
21
photographs.
22
targeted.
23
The crime scene
It was unbelievable.
Sultana and
He was
This was a hate attack against Tariq
24
Rafay.
That is what the evidence tells you.
25
reliable evidence indicates that Atif and
All
44
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
Sebastian are innocent.
2
exculpates them, the neighbors show they're
3
innocent.
4
evidence the state has is coerced and manipulated
5
and not reliable.
6
The forensic evidence
They couldn't have done it.
The only
At the end of this case you'll know
7
that Atif Rafay is innocent and you'll find him
8
not guilty.
9
thank you very much.
10
THE COURT:
11
gentlemen.
I appreciate your attention and
All right, ladies and
I was just going to take our morning
12
break.
13
this point in time and give you all a chance to
14
get home to your families and do all the things
15
you need to do over the next few days.
16
thank you for your attention the last two days
17
for these opening statements.
18
We're going to take our week break at
I want to
As I explained to you, we're going to
19
stop at this point, you'll be brought back on
20
Monday, December 1st, we'll start again at 9:00,
21
and at that point you'll begin to hear the
22
testimony of witnesses and receive evidence.
23
thank you very much for your attention here in
24
the last two days.
25
So
Again, let me just say, don't discuss
45
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
the case, don't let anyone discuss it with you or
2
in your presence.
3
you stay with that, and you are going to hear me
4
repeat that over the next few months to the point
5
where you will have memorized that instruction.
6
It's critically important that
Have a nice Thanksgiving.
We'll see
7
you.
Stay well and we'll see you on Monday.
8
Mr. West, if you want to lead them out.
9
10
(Jury out)
THE COURT:
Every one, please be
11
seated.
12
Monday morning?
13
need to deal with at 8:30 Monday morning, so
14
everyone's on board on that.
15
Anything we need to go over before
I understand we have a matter we
MR. ROBINSON:
I'll e-mail Mr.
16
Davidheiser and Mr. Konat our memo in support of
17
our motion to reconsider.
18
finished, so I'll e-mail it as soon as I get back
19
to my office, and I will get the court a copy of
20
that as well.
21
THE COURT:
22
MR. DAVIDHEISER:
23
24
25
It's actually
That would be great.
We're going to need
an opportunity to respond, obviously, to that.
THE COURT:
You know, in reality, in
view of everything that is going to happen in the
46
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
next couple days, I think we should shoot for
2
Monday morning.
3
reality, happen Monday morning, because I am not
4
so sure, among other things, I am going to have a
5
chance to go over those materials myself.
6
I am not so sure it can, in
So why don't you file your materials,
7
let's say, between now and Monday, then I'll hear
8
you Monday morning at 8:30, as far as a time you
9
may need to respond.
You may need no time, you
10
may need some time.
11
I am going to need some time to go over
12
the materials.
So we may not get down to the
13
actual merits of the matter until Tuesday or
14
Wednesday, but we'll get to them.
15
MR. ROBINSON:
Will the court indicate
16
that -- I understand that the state is going to
17
want to respond and I want you to read the
18
response.
19
indicate that the state file their response
20
Monday morning and then we'll argue it Tuesday or
21
Wednesday, but just so that --
22
23
MR. DAVIDHEISER:
I don't think that is
realistic.
24
25
Can I suggest that the court simply
THE COURT:
They don't know what you
are going to file, so I think it's a little
47
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
difficult.
2
response within, let's say, 48 hours, or come in
3
here Monday morning and tell me why they can't.
4
So we'll set that deadline.
5
I'll mandate that they file a
MR. DAVIDHEISER:
6
going to get this --
7
THE COURT:
8
MR. DAVIDHEISER:
It sounds like we're
But that is Wednesday.
It sounds like we're
9
going to get this brief on the eave of the
10
Thanksgiving recess here and I don't think it's
11
realistic -- I am not going to be taking time
12
away from my family --
13
THE COURT:
Hang on, you guys.
There's
14
no reason to argue this.
We've all worked so
15
well here.
16
brief between now and Monday morning.
17
morning at 8:30 you are going to come in here and
18
tell me if you need more than the 48 hours to
19
respond to it.
20
morning.
21
or the other, during the course of next week.
22
just don't think it's realistic to think it's
23
going to happen Monday morning.
24
that briefed by then and you'll tell me whether
25
you need more time than 48 hours to do it.
It will be okay.
You'll file your
Monday
So I'll hear' you on that Monday
We'll get this thing resolved, one way
But you'll have
Okay,
48
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
everyone?
2
3
MR. DAVIDHEISER:
Are we going to
address the press?
4
THE COURT:
The press?
I
Not at this
5
time, no.
When would you anticipate those
6
undercover officers being brought down to
7
testify, next week?
8
MR. DAVIDHEISER:
9
THE COURT:
Oh, no, no.
Fine, I'll deal with it.
10
Well, I'll deal -- fine, I'll deal with it right
11
now.
12
Did you have something else, Mr. Robinson?
MR. ROBINSON:
The only thing is we've
13
been certainly verbally given an indication that
14
essentially the state's going to go in
15
chronological order, starting on Monday of next
16
week, with scene officers and stuff, and I was
17
going to ask if they don't mind just sending us
18
an e-mail of a list of the order people are going
19
to come just so we can divide them up on who's
20
going to do what?
21
THE COURT:
Yes.
I had assumed that at
22
least for Monday you had already given them a
23
list on who they should anticipate.
24
25
MR. ROBINSON:
We know, generally
speaking, who it is.
49
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
THE COURT:
I think you should have the
2
names so that was consistent with the court's
3
order.
4
Now, with regard to the media, there is
5
an order, and I know some of the folks aren't
6
here, but many of you are, there's an order that
7
this court issued that prohibits taking photos of
8
the faces of the undercover officers who are
9
coming down from British Columbia.
10
They're still involved in undercover
11
operations.
12
them, so I raise this with you again.
13
everyone was aware of this, but I want to remind
14
you of it.
15
some photos appeared in the Vancouver area.
16
don't know if it was in the newspaper, TV, or
17
whatever, that may have shown their faces.
18
would be inconsistent with the orders issued by
19
this court.
20
can't deal with it.
21
Their faces -- it could jeopardize
I assumed
I am told sort of fourth-hand that
I
That
If they get there some other way I
I want all of the representatives of
22
the media to be reminded of that limitation with
23
regard to those two undercover officers so
24
there's no confusion about that.
25
if there's nothing else, we stand adjourn until
All right, then
50
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
1
2
3
4
5
Monday morning at 9:00.
(Recess)
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
51
KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141
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2
3
4
STATE OF WASHINGTON)
5
6
) ss: Reporter's Certificate
COUNTY OF KING
7
)
I, KEVIN MOLL, Certified Shorthand
8
Reporter and Notary Public in and for the State
9
of Washington, DO HEREBY CERTIFY:
10
That the foregoing is a true and correct
11
transcription of my shorthand notes as taken upon
12
the hearing, and taken at the time and place
13
hereinbefore stated, and was transcribed under my
14
direction and supervision;
15
That I am not related to any of the parties
16
to this litigation and have no interest in the
17
outcome of said litigation;
18
19
Witness my hand this 5th day of December
2003.
20
21
22
__________________________________
Official Court Reporter for King
County, Washington, CSR
NO. MOLL*KA400P0
23
24
25
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KEVIN MOLL, CSR, (206) 296-9141