IEEE Education Partners Program
Bulletin Board Focus Group Transcript – Non-Participants
May 4, 2008
Moderator: Robin Wedewer – 410.414.5718 – robinw@wedewergroup.com
1.1
Robin - Moderator
4/28/2008 11:27:21 AM
Thanks for joining us! My name is Robin Wedewer and I will be leading the discussion.
Each of the four days of this group I will be introducing questions and encouraging our
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'1.1.1 Donna 5/2/2008 6:15:56 PM
Sorry I arrived late. I had to fly to a funeral on Wednesday. Hope I am not too tardy, as I
look forward to participating in these discussions.
'1.2
Robin - Moderator
4/28/2008 11:27:21 AM
You may log into the discussion as often as you want, but we ask that you log in at least
once a day, if possible.
If you have any questions or comments about the process, this would be a good place to
post them. You can send me a private message by clicking the Private Message button. You
can also email me at robinw@wedewergroup.com.
Finally, I would like for this to be a discussion. Your ideas and responses are important—
1
spelling and grammar are not. So don’t worry about any of that as long as you make
yourself understood!
I want to begin today by letting everyone get to know each other. Please click on 2.1 to
start enjoying the discussion.
'2.1
Robin - Moderator
4/28/2008 11:27:37 AM
It’s always fascinating to see the variety of experience people bring to these groups. And
since I hope we will have a lively discussion, let’s start by getting to know who’s here.
I am based outside of Washington, D.C., and work full-time as a research consulting
conducting groups like this one as well as doing other types of research. Although I am not
an engineer, I have worked with IEEE on several projects and am very familiar with many
areas in which IEEE works.
If people don't participate or REACT AND RESPOND in these groups, I sometimes post
photos of my dogs doing silly things.
(I appreciate humor and a good laugh!)
So, enough about me. Tell me about you.
Where do you live? What kind of education do you have? What is your position and what
kind of work do you do?
'2.1.1 Fred 4/30/2008 12:18:52 AM
I live in California where I have since I was about 3.
I have a BS EE and an AA in general Education.
I am currently unemployed although after being laid off last year. I have done some
consulting since then and am currently trying to get another position lined up. Since I
graduated I have been involved in IC design mostly as a design engineer although I have
done some work as a product engineer.
'2.1.1.1
Peter 5/2/2008 11:40:17 AM
I have lived all over the country. Went to undergrad in Illinois, gradual school in Atlanta,
worked in Austin TX for 15 months, St. Louis Missouri for 13 years. Ann Arbor Michigan
for 7 months, Blacksburg VA for 3 months and now I am in Ohio. Hopefully this is the
last move for a while.
I have a PhDEE in electric machines and controls of electric machines. Kind of an esoteric
niche but its pretty interesting and they are paying me to do it.
'2.1.2 David 4/30/2008 2:29:36 AM
My family and I make our home near Spokane Washington. We enjoy the beautiful
seasons that the northwest provides along with plenty of opportunities for outdoor sports
and activities.
My undergrad degree is in Electrical Engineering. Following 10 years as a design engineer
working with computer peripherals, professional audio video and telecommunications, I
went back to school part-time to get my Masters in Engineering Management. Great
opportunity!
2
I presently work for an energy services company providing consulting services in the
financial and performance aspects of utility issues. I manage a couple teams that have
specialties in data analysis and reporting. It's been a big shift from design and
engineering but it's been fun to use the business side of my background.
'2.1.2.1
Robin - Moderator
4/30/2008 2:38:13 PM
Fred and David - You West Coast guys were up late last night!
'2.1.2.1.1 David 5/1/2008 2:19:08 AM
Working.... Late night is when things finally slow down to finish things up.
'2.1.2.1.2 Fred 5/1/2008 2:22:08 PM
I don't think of 9:30 as too late.
'2.1.3 Russell 4/30/2008 8:17:12 AM
Originally from the UK, my career brought me to Quebec about 8 years ago.
My undergraduate degree is in electronic engineering. Since graduating in 1995, I've been
involved mainly in research and development, of one form or another.
I currently own and run a business, developing products for managing communications
over computer networks.
'2.1.3.1
Emad 4/30/2008 10:36:38 AM
I am a PhD student at Queen's University in Kingston, ON, Canada. I really enjoy
research, especially when it solves problems that companies face in the real world. I have
also worked in the communication industry during my undergrad. I did my Bachelor of
Engineering and my MASc. in ECE and now I am doing my PhD in CSC.
'2.1.4 Leili
4/30/2008 11:13:06 AM
Hi everyone!
I work and live in San Jose, California.
I have a M.S. degree in Electromagnetics from University of Colorado, Boulder.
I have been working in EDA for the past 2 years. I like the fact that I can work from
everywhere and I only need my computer to do so. We develop a software for circuit
design.
I try to fill my personal time with friends and good activities and keep the balance in my
life.
'2.1.5 Ben
4/30/2008 12:00:09 PM
Good Morning,
I am from the Seattle area of Washington state, currently attending DeVry University to
complete the BEET program. I am the chair of the IEEE student club there. I have two AS's
from YVCC.
I have been working Tech Support/Customer Service for the past seven years. Currently I
am working at the Geek Squad, part of Best Buy.
3
In the breaks between terms I participate in the SCA, a medieval recreaction group.
'2.1.5.1
Robin - Moderator
4/30/2008 2:40:51 PM
Oh, I know the Geek Squad very well. Brilliant idea for those of us who work from home
offices.
'2.1.6 Gorn 4/30/2008 12:02:30 PM
I am originally from Thailand; I moved to Ohio for my education. I received my BS and
MS degrees in Computer Science and am current pursuing a PhD in Computer Engineering
at Case Western Reserve University.
All my career experience are within the university setup for research and development.
My recent project involves multi-sensory information integration for face recognition and
machine learning.
'2.1.7 Bronis 4/30/2008 1:08:17 PM
I live in California (Bay Area). I have a PhD in Computer Science. I work at a government
lab and I manage a large project that combines elements of large scale production
computing with related research issues. I also am the line manager for a group of about 12
researchers.
'2.1.8 Ryan 4/30/2008 1:26:48 PM
I am currently finishing my second year of college at Christopher Newport University in
Newport News, VA. I am majoring in Computer Engineering. This past winter break I
worked with a company in Hampton, VA as an IS Trainee and helped their IT staff prepare
for a security audit. During my senior year of high school and my other breaks in college I
was the IT support person for a small business in Northern Virginia. I am looking for
summer employment at the moment; I may go back to the same company I was at over
the winter.
'2.1.8.1
Robin - Moderator
4/30/2008 2:39:34 PM
Hi Ryan - I know this area very well. I grew up in Hampton Roads and my brother lives
just over the bridge from Christopher Newpor in Carrolton.
I didn't know they had a computer engineering program though.
'2.1.8.1.1 Ryan 5/1/2008 8:14:37 PM
Yes, we have Computer Engineering here... its a small program but the professors are
great and class sizes are small. Lots of personal attention!
'2.1.9 Hesam 4/30/2008 3:42:57 PM
Hi Everyone,
I live in College Station, TX, pursuing my Ph.D. degree in Analog and RF Design group in
Texas A&M University. As an intern, I have worked in a start-up company and a stablished
one. Now, I am focusing on my research project which involves Low power RF transmitters
and programmable baseband.
'2.1.10
Emad 4/30/2008 7:04:13 PM
-REPOSTI am sorry, but I posted this in the wrong place earlier.
I am a PhD student at Queen's University in Kingston, ON, Canada. I really enjoy research,
especially when it solves problems that companies face in the real world. I have also
4
worked in the communication industry during my undergrad. I did my Bachelor of
Engineering and my MASc. in ECE and now I am doing my PhD in CSC.
'2.1.11
Zafar 4/30/2008 7:20:29 PM
I live in the Portland, Oregon area working for an EDA company. I have been in the
Portland area for more than 10 years now. I have a Ph.D. in Computer Engg (logic
synthesis). I am currently working on a mixed signal design project.
'2.1.12
Shreeram
4/30/2008 7:32:22 PM
Hi, I am Shreeram, a PhD graduate in wireless communications, living in Edmonton, AB,
Canada, "the hockey city". I have been involved in wireless communication systems
research since 2001 and enjoying it so far.
'2.1.13
Tahir 4/30/2008 8:11:36 PM
I am living in Toronto, Canada for the past 7 years. I obtained my B.Sc. degree in
Electrical Engineering back in 1993 and then went on to work in Electricity distribution
company in Pakistan. I started my M.A.Sc. in Computer Engineering after 9 years and
switched to signal/image processing area from Power Engineering. I am currently doing my
PHD in Electrical Engineering from University of Toronto and hope to graduate early next
year. My research is on Human Gait Analysis for recognition and medical diagnostics.
On family front I have a 20 months old son who has just started speaking short sentences.
'2.1.13.1 Robin - Moderator
5/1/2008 8:05:24 AM
20 months is a good age! Lots of trouble cause they're mobile!
'2.1.14
Sandip 4/30/2008 10:21:14 PM
I was born and raised in India. I finished my Diploma in Instrumentation & Control in
India. Since moving to America in 2003 i got a BS in EE. Currently in Tennessee working
as systems engineer.
Enjoy traveling and history.
'2.1.14.1
Hello All,
Mike
4/30/2008 11:03:58 PM
I was born in Los Angeles California.
I Graduated from UCLA with a Master's Degree in Electrical Engineering.
I currently live in Dana Point California and work as an electronic design Engineer in Aliso
Viejo California. (Aliso Viejo is just about mid way between Los Angeles and San Diego.)
'2.1.15
thomas
4/30/2008 10:58:29 PM
Our family moved to Houston 12 years ago, from snowy country.
I have a BS and MS in electrical engineereing.
I currently manage an embedded design group, designing automated control systems
'2.1.16
Ron
4/30/2008 11:00:59 PM
I'm currently living in a suburb of Minneapolis, MN, where my family and I have been for
the past 10 years. I received a BS in EE about 15 years ago. My current position is a
team lead in the Technical Services Unit for a state agency. The main things I do right
now are coordinate some of the projects being worked on within the unit and serve as the
information security officer for the agency.
5
'2.1.17
Bill
5/1/2008 11:52:27 AM
I live near Atlanta, Georgia, but work in Knoxville, Tennessee, about 3 hours away. I
spend a few days at the office some weeks, but travel and telecommute some weeks, too.
I went to Georgia Tech for A BEE and MSEE, and now I work in their music department
(very part-time).
Our company does consulting for electric utilities and energy development companies.
Latest big projects have been wind farms. We do the electrical studies related to
operation, short circuit performance and interconnection with the utility.
I have worked for IBM, Georgia Power, and EPRI.
'2.1.18
Mohammed 5/1/2008 12:26:44 PM
I live now in Ontario, Canada. I work as a research assistant in he University of Waterloo.
I've been here for 5 years. I was also a teaching assistant back home (Egypt) for another
5 years.
I'm an engineering graduate and my main research now is focused on particle swarm
optimization and its cooperative models.
'2.1.19
Maurice
5/1/2008 12:50:52 PM
I just graduated on April 27th with my BS in Electrical Engineering. I would like to go to
graduate school and focus on electronic waste. I attended Florida A&M University in
Tallahassee,FL.
'2.1.20
Donna 5/2/2008 6:28:46 PM
I currently live in Houston. I graduated with a BSEE/BSCS in 1981, at that time there
were few other women in the EE program. I wonder if much has changes in that regard
over the years.
I have held numerous jobs over the years, some engineering related, many not. My
current position is seated, and I work as an analyst in a group that calculates market risk
for commodities traders.
'2.1.20.1 Donna 5/2/2008 9:00:15 PM
Good thing the intro states that spelling and grammar are not important.
(The above should read 'I wonder if much has changed in that regard ...'
'2.2
Robin - Moderator
4/28/2008 11:27:37 AM
How long have you been a member of IEEE? Do you belong to any of the IEEE societies or
sections? Which ones?
Why did you become an IEEE member?
'2.2.1 Fred 4/30/2008 12:22:17 AM
I joined IEEE while I was in school. I live in section 6 so I am part of that. Currently I'm
don't belong to any society, but I have belonged to several, most the Solid State society.
I joined because many of the EE students at school were members and it was (and I think
still is) easier to do so as a student than later.
'2.2.1.1
Robin - Moderator
4/30/2008 2:41:51 PM
Easier to join as a student? Why's that?
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'2.2.1.1.1 Fred 5/1/2008 2:34:17 PM
As a student you can just join. Otherwise I think you have to be sponsored by a
member (although I suspect that isn't too hard.) And actually as a student they may
consider the teacher/adviser as the sponsor, I'm not sure.
'2.2.1.1.2 Ben
5/3/2008 4:57:49 PM
$30 enrolment fee.
'2.2.2 David 4/30/2008 2:34:34 AM
I've been involved with IEEE since college, so 22 years or so. I used to belong to the
Engineering Management Society before it folded so now my primary attachment is
through the Power Engineering Society. The local section provides a good number of
activities and interesting forums. IEEE provided the opportunity to stay current with the
multiple facets of the engineering world beyond just cool parts and design tricks. There's
a significant amount of business, marketing and people skills that are required to be an
engineer in today's world. IEEE allows engineers to be as engaged as they choose to be.
'2.2.3 Russell 4/30/2008 8:26:21 AM
I originally joined the IEEE as a student member in the early 90's. However, for no
particular reason, I allowed my membership lapse by '96 or thereabouts. I've only
rejoined about 2 years ago.
The reason for joining on this latest occasion was to gain easy access to certain IEEE
publications. In reality, I never found the time to exploit that goal, or to investigate other
services that the IEEE might offer, so I've never joined any societies or sections.
'2.2.3.1
Emad 4/30/2008 10:46:07 AM
I became a member when I started my MASc. about 3 years ago. I only did it to get
discounts on conferences and because my supervisor highly recommended it. I am part of
the communication society because I really like the magazines that we get with the
membership. I have never really joined any sections, mainly because I have no time, but
more importantly because non of them (the ones close to me) really reached out to me.
'2.2.3.2
Robin - Moderator
4/30/2008 2:43:09 PM
Maybe this group will give you the incentive to explore the IEEE website some more.
(And I understand about piles of publications left unread.)
'2.2.4 Leili
4/30/2008 11:20:54 AM
I first became a member of IEEE 8 years ago as a student. I was a member for 2 years,
and then discontinued my membership. I joined IEEE again about a year ago. My reason to
join is to grow my professional network and be more involved with the new advancement
in my field. Also, I am hoping to start taking some classes through IEEE to keep my
knowledge fresh and to be able to change careers if necessary.
The list of my memberships:
IEEE
IEEE
IEEE
IEEE
IEEE
Antennas and Propagation Society
Microwave Theory and Techniques Society
Engineering Management Society
Professional Communication Society
Women In Engineering
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'2.2.4.1
Robin - Moderator
4/30/2008 2:43:49 PM
Leili - You'll probably find the discussion on the Education Partners program particularly
interesting then.
And that's an impressive group of memberships.
'2.2.5 Ben
4/30/2008 12:06:43 PM
I joined IEEE last year as a student. I wanted to take an officer role in the student club,
now I am the chair of the student club.
I am not part of any societies yet as I am still new to the IEEE and don't have a firm grasp
of the societies, however I have been taking an active role in the Seattle section,
competing in the student Paper Contests, and attending several seminars and
presentations.
'2.2.6 Gorn 4/30/2008 12:16:34 PM
I joined the IEEE as a student member back in 2004 when I was a senior undergrad
student. Then I discontinued the membership since I continued my education and the
school has full IEEE subscription. So I have all access to IEEE publications. I rejoined the
IEEE as a grad student member this year to get some discount for IEEE conference. I also
belong to the CIS society.
'2.2.7 Bronis 4/30/2008 1:11:12 PM
I have been a IEEE member for 11 or 12 years. I joined near the end of the time I was in
school. I am a member of the computer society. I joined IEEE because it seemed useful for
professional development and my job search.
'2.2.8 Ryan 4/30/2008 1:35:31 PM
I joined the IEEE last year as a student because many of my engineering professors
recommended it. I am not very familiar with the IEEE societies or sections... I do not
think I am apart of any of them. I really enjoy reading the publications (Spectrum,
Potentials, etc.) that I receive every few weeks, even though a good amount of the
material is still above my knowledge level. I also think in a field such as ours being a
member of the IEEE is a good thing to do so I can stay connected with the latest trends
and research in computer engineering after I finish school.
'2.2.8.1
Robin - Moderator
4/30/2008 2:44:37 PM
It's interesting how many of you joined as students.
'2.2.9 Hesam 4/30/2008 3:55:03 PM
I became an IEEE member as a student (I guess on my sophomore year) mmostly because
it was a fad! since then I have been a member for 7 years although with some lapse in
between. For a long time I have been a member of Solid-State society. Just last year I
discontinued that membership as I had access to IEEExplore from school and the pile of
JSSC was getting out of control :) I noticed I am getting most of the benefits of that
society from school. Being an IEEE member I have used conference discounts (which is
significant) and on top of that I keep myself updated. (BTW I love spectrum)
'2.2.9.1
Robin - Moderator
5/1/2008 8:08:21 AM
A "fad" is an interesting way putting it. :)
'2.2.10
Emad 4/30/2008 7:06:42 PM
8
I think that a lot of us join as students (especially grad students), because that's when we
really need IEEE publications. This also tends to be the first time we publish and go to IEEE
conferences.
'2.2.11
Zafar 4/30/2008 7:27:53 PM
I also joined IEEE as a student member. I belong to the Circuits and Systems Society. I
was introduced to the IEEE by my father who was also a life member. It keeps me upto
date with the most recent research and publications in my area of interest.
'2.2.12
Shreeram
4/30/2008 7:39:12 PM
I have been a member of IEEE since 2000 (as a student member). I am also a member of
Communications Society. I have volunteered as GOLD chair in Northern Canada Section for
the year 2006-2007.
Why? It's a good question. Initially, just by seeing a friend being an IEEE student member.
Then, gradually understood the benefit of being in the society & the network of people of
similar minds. There are other member benefits as well. Volunteering with IEEE was also a
good experience, as i could build my network bigger in this part of the world, made some
good friends, who helped me to introduce to many others...leading eventually to a decent
job.
'2.2.13
Tahir 4/30/2008 8:18:53 PM
I am a member of IEEE since 2004. I belong to the IEEE Toronto section but I am not
member of any of the IEEE societies. I became a member to be part of the largest EE
professional community and to network with fellow professionals. I am also enjoying the
benefits of being an IEEE member like lower registration fees for the conferences.
'2.2.14
thomas
4/30/2008 11:02:12 PM
I joined IEEE in the late 70's and have been a member most of time since then. I do not
belong to any societies or sections at this time. I became a member as a student, and
have continued on and off over the years since.
'2.2.15
Ron
4/30/2008 11:09:40 PM
I've been a member for 22 years (boy that's a scary number when I type it out). I'm a
member of the Computer and Communications societies.
I became an IEEE member when I was a student because I liked the idea of keeping up
with state-of-the-art info on topics I found interesting (especially robotics). I'm still a
member for a few reasons:
- I still like to keep up with the latest technology for my areas of interest.
- I think it's a good way to keep my professional development moving forward (a big thing
for me).
- some of the benefits are too good to pass up.
'2.2.16
Mike 4/30/2008 11:17:37 PM
I became a member in 1978. I have been a continuous member since then.
I am a member of SSCS (Solid State Circuits Society).
I became a member of IEEE because it provides an important support for Engineers. I find
the technical information that I get from IEEE journals to be vital asset to my career. Also
it is a forum for engineers to share ideas, and to support each other in many areas of our
lives.
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'2.2.17
Bill
5/1/2008 11:56:31 AM
34 years. Yes, PES and IAS. My boss shamed me into it, saying, "you are no more an
electrical engineer than you are a pharmacist if you don't join and contribute!" He was a
PES fan.
'2.2.17.1 Robin - Moderator
5/1/2008 12:47:24 PM
That's interesting. A fan, indeed.
'2.2.18
Mohammed 5/1/2008 12:29:35 PM
I've been an IEEE member for about 3 years now. I have to admit though, I started as a
member to get the discount in IEEE conferences registration :D
I'm also member in both the IEEE computational intelligence society and the IEEE systems,
man and cybernetics society.
'2.2.19
Maurice
5/1/2008 12:53:45 PM
I have been a member for two years, I also belong to the vehicular society and i plan to
join the society focused on the impact of technology on society. I joined IEEE because I
saw that I could further my knowledge base beyond the classroom.
'2.2.20
Shreeram
5/1/2008 2:19:12 PM
As Robin mentioned, searching and accessing papers in IEEEXplore is one of the daily
activities that is involved during my research. I didn't not have access to it when i was
doing my master's study. Incredible and all universities must have to have the access to
this database!
'2.2.21
Donna 5/2/2008 6:34:31 PM
I have been a member approximately 20 years. I occasionally belong to the Computer
Society. I must admit I have not been a very active member.
I joined to support IEEE as an organization, and I plan to continue that support. I will
admit, however, that I haven't read IEEE's mission statement in some time, and I'm not
sure exactly what that says. I'll have to go look that up.
'2.3
Robin - Moderator
4/28/2008 11:27:37 AM
We’ll be talking quite a bit about the IEEE Education Partners Program. You can learn more
about it by visiting:
http://www.ieee.org/web/education/partners/eduPartners.html
or by clicking on the link in the whiteboard above.
The program gives IEEE members a 10% discount on education courses at participating
institutions for classes you register for through IEEE.
Prior to receiving an invitation to participate in this focus group, had you ever heard of the
IEEE Education Partners Program?
IF YOU DID KNOW ABOUT THE PROGRAM: How did you first learn about it? What did you
know about it? Did you ever consider taking a course through the program? If so, why didn’t
you? Tell me about your thinking.
IF YOU DID NOT KNOW ABOUT THE PROGRAM: What did you think the IEEE Education
Partners Program might be when you heard the name? What did you think it was all about?
10
'2.3.1 Fred 4/30/2008 12:29:43 AM
I know IEEE has an education program, but I didn't know the name nor too many of the
details. Based on the name I would think it is connected to various schools where people
can get additional degrees or just take classes that they need, probably on-line. I would
assume since it is connected with IEEE that they have checked out the schools and the
classes and programs are worthwhile (unlike some on-line schools.)
'2.3.2 David 4/30/2008 2:38:53 AM
Peronally, I was unaware of the Education Partners program. This may be due to being
employed by firms that provided educational reimbursement so the cost of courses did not
have a significant personal impact.
The name seems to infer a group of seminar-type activites rather than formal education.
Something along a group of experts that would provide specific instruction based on the
dynamic needs of an organization.
'2.3.3 Russell 4/30/2008 8:30:58 AM
I've never heard of the program before.
I would have assumed it to be merely a marketing term coined to describe an association
with continual learning.
'2.3.4 Leili
4/30/2008 11:26:50 AM
I'd seen this program when I was browsing through IEEE. But I didn't know about the 10%
discount. I did consider taking a class, but many of the classes I liked were kind of
expensive. Plus, now that many good universities are offering their course material online,
in order to register with IEEE I need to know if the certificate from IEEE really matters or
not on my resume. Does it? I also think it will be helpful if the goal of each course is
included. For example they say: "interested to get a job in antenna field? Take this
course!" Because if and when I decide to go through IEEE, I want the good and fast result.
'2.3.4.1
Robin - Moderator
4/30/2008 2:47:10 PM
I'm not sure what you mean about the "certificate from IEEE." Courses are actually
offered by the universities, colleges or education progam and any credit or degrees are
through them and not IEEE. Is that what you were referring to?
'2.3.4.1.1 Robin - Moderator
5/1/2008 8:30:07 AM
Or do you mean CEU credits that some schools offer?
'2.3.4.1.2 Leili
5/1/2008 9:36:25 AM
I didn't know that courses were offered through universities. How about the online 2, 3hour courses?
'2.3.5 Gorn 4/30/2008 12:28:21 PM
I have seen the IEEE Education Partner Program on the website; I am aware of the 10%
discount. However, I never look through it in detail. I assume it is not a formal degree
program. I believe the program design for members to take a few classes (for nondegree) at participating universities or to take online seminars (maybe with or without
certifications).
I never consider taking the classes/seminars since I am still a grad student. Also, I am not
sure if the IEEE certificates may help me in my job search/application/resume.
11
'2.3.5.1
Robin - Moderator
5/1/2008 8:30:53 AM
Gorn - for you too, by "IEEE certificates" do you mean CEU credits or something else?
'2.3.5.1.1 Gorn 5/3/2008 4:25:42 PM
I just found out that IEEE does not offer certificates after going through the program in
detail. I mean the certificates offered from the participating institutions.
'2.3.6 Bronis 4/30/2008 1:14:11 PM
I may have heard of the program (I think I vaguely recall seeing something about it once
when I was renewing my membership). I have not consider taking any courses through it.
I am constantly swamped and consider my active participation in a number of IEEE and
ACM conferences to be a sufficient source of continuing eduation.
'2.3.7 Ben
4/30/2008 1:15:18 PM
I had not heard about this promgram, prior to this discussion.
I would think it to be some type of Web Based Training, that many companies employ.
As most have an additional cost and usaly are not acreditted, it would be difficult to
convince a student to spend time and money on it.
'2.3.8 Ryan 4/30/2008 1:40:38 PM
I have not heard about the Education Partners Program until now. When I initially read
the name I thought of connecting education professionals (professors, technical institution
instructions, etc.) together. Perhaps also connecting professors to students.
'2.3.9 Hesam 4/30/2008 4:01:26 PM
I haven't heard about the program, when I heard the name I think it is some kind of online
education of the same courses taught in school for industry people who have long
graduated and want to be updated or make minor changes in their careers. (say, one has
been Analog designer for years and now wants to diversify his/her career opportunities by
getting involved in RF design too)
'2.3.10
Emad 4/30/2008 7:09:37 PM
I first knew about the program through the IEEE mailing list email. I did not ever consider
taking any courses with the IEEE Eduction Partners Program because I did not find the
time and really did not need such courses since I am in school anyways. I think such
programs would be better suited for people who are in industry.
'2.3.11
Tahir 4/30/2008 8:27:21 PM
I came to know about this program while browsing the IEEE website which I do quite
often. But I did not know any details about this program. I am trying to wind up my
research these days so that I can start writing my thesis by the end of this year which
makes me very busy. Thats why I didnt consider taking any courses through this program
but I might take some courses in the future for continuous professional development.
Basically when I first heard about this program, I thought it is like Microsoft Certified
Professionals or Technology partners. IEEE partnership may give prestige to the courses
and can also serve as a quality assurance tool.
'2.3.12
Zafar 4/30/2008 8:29:41 PM
No, I had not heard about the IEEE Education Partners program before this. It is probably
some kind of collaboration between IEEE, academic institutions and industry to help
12
improve the quality of education. Members from the industry and univesities could be
collaborating to formulate course curriculums, research focus areas based on the needs of
the future. This could also be helping professionals with their continueing education needs
(this last comment is based on the title of question 3.*).
'2.3.13
thomas
4/30/2008 11:14:26 PM
I have known of the program through notices in my membership and through Spectrum
but have not really taken a good look at the offerings in while. I actually have enjoyed
taking classes in the past but have not looked into the IEEE program. Frankly I have not
had the amount of time I have felt needed to pursue this program or any other for that
matter.
'2.3.14
Ron
4/30/2008 11:15:59 PM
I had heard of the program, but I was not aware of any of the details. When I first heard
the name, I thought it might be some small group of companies offering discounted prices
to online courses.
'2.3.15
Mike 4/30/2008 11:30:56 PM
I did not hear about the “IEEE Education Partners Program” until today.
When I first saw the name a partnership between the IEEE and Industry came to mind. (I
am not sure why. That was just the first thought that I had.)
'2.3.15.1 Robin - Moderator
5/1/2008 8:13:12 AM
I will be interested to hear what you all think of the name IEEE Education Partners
Program once you learn more about it.
I think there are a number of misperceptions about the program and wonder how much
has to do with the name!
'2.3.15.1.1
Shreeram
5/1/2008 2:33:35 PM
Can you really say a 'program' (that IEEE offers), or just a member benefit through
discounts from Education Partners of IEEE? The name itself may be confusing to some.
'2.3.16
Bill
5/1/2008 11:59:27 AM
Sounds like a fund-raiser to me. I assume that we will volunteer time and/or funding to
things like mentoring and school projects encouraging electrical engineering.
'2.3.17
Mohammed 5/1/2008 12:33:17 PM
Actually, although I work in an academic environment I never heard of this program
before.
However, the name didn't imply anything by itself. I usually don't try base any conclusions
on new pieces of information without reading further details.
'2.3.18
Maurice
5/1/2008 12:56:21 PM
I thought it was a group where educators in IEEE could connect and share ideas about
different ways to educate their students.
'2.3.19
Shreeram
5/1/2008 2:29:41 PM
I had, indeed, heard about this before. I did consider taking a course through this
program, but it was expensive for me to afford. I was busy with my PhD at that time, and
could not think of finding other ways to support the cost. I see quite a few excellent
13
educational institutions involved with it, and i would think that quality of the course
offerings could be good and well recognized.
BTW, could anyone comment on the online learning versus the on-class learning?
recognition of online degrees?
If i didn't know about the program, i would assume IEEE is providing the education
through other external partners ..i mean IEEE is the one, who we should be going through
for registration and all..
'2.3.19.1 Robin - Moderator
5/1/2008 4:24:49 PM
Good question about the online learning, Shreeram. That's actually one of the upcoming
questions.
'2.3.20
Donna 5/2/2008 6:45:33 PM
I had heard about the IEEE partners program, through an email note I received about it. I
believe I attended a Webinar that discussed it.
I considered distance learning at one of the partner Universities, but decided not to pursue
that option, most likely due to time constraints. I'll probably take a second look in the
near future.
'3.1
Robin - Moderator
4/28/2008 11:28:13 AM
Since we’re here to talk about continuing education, tell me about the most recent
professional course or courses that you have taken. Did you go to an academic institution?
A for-profit education provider? Were they offered by your employer? What was the course
or courses? Were the course or courses traditional classroom courses or online?
And what was your motivation? For example, are you interested in pursuing an advanced
degree? Did you need to learn a particular skill for your job? Were you simply interested in
the topic? Or something else?
As other people respond, take a look at what they have to say about the reasons for
pursuing some continuing education. Do you relate to their experience at all for pursuing
continuing education? Do you share common motivations at all? Please take a few moments
to reply to what they have to say.
(Of course, if you are one of the early responders, you may need to check back later for this
question.)
'3.1.13
Robin - Moderator
5/1/2008 8:20:20 AM
(Deleted)
I'm posting this follow-up question at the top because I want to hear what everyone has to
say.
Tell me more about your likes/dislikes and perceptions of online training courses. Many of
you have never tried one. Would you ever? What would convince you that an online
training course is worthwhile?
And if you have taken one...can you tell the group more about how it worked? For
example, I took an online course recently on botanical illustration (okay, stop laughing
now). There was specialized software that allowed us to chat with the other students in a
bulletin board format not unlike this one. Course materials, written and video, were
provided in chunks. We had a schedule where we had to post our assignments (really
feeble plant drawings in my case) and could share with the other students. I received
14
emails when the course instructor had posted grades and comments or when other
students had posted messages for discussion.
How do other online courses work?
'3.1.1 Russell 4/30/2008 8:59:17 AM
With respect to taking professional courses, a lack of time has always been a major
inhibitor for me. For the most part, I continually evolve my knowledge through a process
of self-directed research and learning.
Nevertheless, I have taken a number of professional courses, the most recent of which
was a project management course in c. '03. The course was provided by a for-profit
university business school and paid for my then employer.
The motivation to attend was a response to my perception that my then employer had an
exceptionally high rate of project failure. Although the reasons for this were plainly
evident, it was equally evident that I was going to experience difficulty in instigating
change unless I formalized my own knowledge and experience.
This notion of formalizing what I already know in order to gain credibility has been a large
driver in all other professional courses that I've taken.
All of the professional courses that I've taken have consisted of a combination of
traditional classroom plus workshop groups. I've tended to find that workshops are of
most benefit, because they solidify understanding.
'3.1.1.1
Robin - Moderator
4/30/2008 2:50:16 PM
Have you tried any online courses? What do you think of them?
'3.1.1.1.1 Donna 5/2/2008 6:52:33 PM
I have taken online courses, of various formats. I prefer the ones that offer schedule
flexibility to those with an online instructor that are scheduled at a particular time.
'3.1.1.1.2 Gorn 5/3/2008 4:31:48 PM
I have done some online webcast/webinar. There are an audio stream and a
presentation stream. They don't show the video of the presenters. That makes it rather
boring from the presentation viewpoint. As for the material, they never get into too
technical area--mostly they focus on introductory to whatever the topic is. I believe
very technical online presentation will require much more than an audio stream and a
presentation stream.
'3.1.2 Bronis 4/30/2008 1:20:52 PM
The most recent courses I have taken are various training courses through my employer
(most recent was probably some management training, not technical). I have also taken a
few tutorials through conferences (as well as presented some). We have many on-line
training courses but they are not of interest here. The only courses I am thinking of for
this purpose are in person -- short tutorials or a few days to a week of various sessions.
I have either been required to take them or just interested in the topic. The most recent
management training has a very interesting set of speakers -- Mikhail Gorbachev, George
Mitchell, Benazir Bhutto, Mike Eurizione (sp?), among others. Those talks were a lot of fun
but the other sessions have also proven useful for my daily work managing people (both
their work and their careers).
15
'3.1.2.1
Robin - Moderator
4/30/2008 2:51:03 PM
Why aren't you interested in online courses? Is it the topic? The format?
'3.1.2.1.1 Bronis 5/2/2008 9:29:46 AM
The format primarily. Also, I tend to assemble my own courses by trolling research
papers. On line courses usually are not advanced enough for my purposes.
'3.1.3 Ben
4/30/2008 1:25:12 PM
As I am still learning about electronics, the most recent courses are the ones I am
currently in. From a previous employer I did take some online trainings on programming.
My desire is to be able to work in the field of robotics with emphasis on augmentation of
human limitations. I also plan to go into a Master's Program.
I have always had an interest in computers and electronics and have mostly taught myself.
By earning a Bachelor's, I hope to increase my skills as well as have an oportunity to
demostrate my skills.
'3.1.3.1
Robin - Moderator
4/30/2008 2:51:47 PM
How did you think the online training compared to traditional training programs?
'3.1.3.1.1 Ben
5/2/2008 1:49:12 PM
The online was to me, a self taught thing, you read a bunch of info watch a couple of
short clips and answer a quiz. There is not much interaction. And if I could learn what I
wanted from reading I would not have to pay tuition.
In the few that had a forum like this one, questions were not responeded to timely and
frequently with wrong information. Students often make mistakes.
The loss of tone and context and limitation of comunication presented by this medium
are the limiting factors.
'3.1.4 Ryan 4/30/2008 1:58:29 PM
Like Ben, the most recent courses are also the ones I am taking now. I am taking them at
CNU for credit towards a Bachelors of Science in Computer Engineering. Specifically the
courses I took this semester were:
CPEN 315, Digital System Design (Topics included sequential circuit design, digital circuit
simulation; I was also introduced to Verilog)
ENGR 212/212L, a second-semester electronics course about op amps, as well as JFET and
MOSFET transistors
All of my classes are traditional classroom taught and my motivation is I want a college
degree! I also love learning about how computer hardware works, and the longer I have
been in school the more I have been seeing an increased desire within myself to learn just
for the sake of learning. I would like to go for a Masters and possibly a Doctorate if I am
smart enough and can afford it. Of course things may change but I think it would be cool
(in a prestigious sense) to get the highest degree in my field. I am also looking to study
abroad in Germany for a semester next year so grad school in Europe might be another
possibility.
'3.1.5 Hesam 4/30/2008 4:18:32 PM
pretty much courses I have taken are the ones I have taken in school towards my degree.
However I ahve participated in tutorials in conferences and have attended some
16
workshops. Also last summer I took this Business Management Certificate for Engineers in
our school as I wanted to expand on business side of my career as well. I think offering
educational courses on business management specifically tailored for Electrical Engineers
would be a great idea. Imagine if every grad student coming out of school know how to
write a business plan, how to present his/her idea to VCs and start their own company.
This is something that is lacking from EE grad schools and I think if it were offered through
IEEE it would be greatly welcomed.
'3.1.5.1
Robin - Moderator
5/1/2008 8:14:25 AM
Interesting ideas about the business aspects of the programs.
'3.1.5.2
Shreeram
5/1/2008 2:47:40 PM
Could not agree more with you, Hesam. Having business and project management
related skills would make you stand out among other candidates who have similar college
degrees. I wonder whether IEEE education partner offer similar course (as 'Business
Management Certificate for Engineers') online in affordable rates for students.
'3.1.5.2.1 Robin - Moderator
5/1/2008 4:27:34 PM
Everyone will have the chance to explore. Let's go see...
The rest of you--do you agree with this idea? If the programs aren't already there, is
this a program area that would interest you--project management related skills?
'3.1.5.2.1.1
Ryan 5/1/2008 8:25:41 PM
When I was first deciding on my major I wanted to do Computer Engineering with a
minor in Business... but I couldn't fit all of the required Business credits into my
schedule and still graduate in four years.
It would seem to me that unless you intend to go into research business/project
management courses would be greatly beneficial.
'3.1.5.2.1.2
Bronis 5/2/2008 9:31:36 AM
I think most PhD students could use courses in proposal writing. In gneral, the area of
pursuing grants is insufficiently covered for advanced students.
'3.1.5.2.1.3
Zafar 5/2/2008 1:11:17 PM
Yes, I think that will be good option to have. I would also suggest to include some
project management classes in the regular engg curriculum. Most EEs end up
managing projects (their own or a team) at some point in their life. Seems like a
necessary skill to me.
'3.1.5.2.1.4
Tahir 5/3/2008 8:32:00 AM
Yeah I am in complete agreement. But if you are in academics, I am not quite sure
about it.
'3.1.5.2.1.5
Ron
5/3/2008 10:54:20 AM
I definitely agreee this would be a good area that appears to be a bit lacking in the
offerings. I know that one of my weakest areas at work from an education perspective
is in the project management area (and budgeting as it relates to that)
'3.1.6 Emad 4/30/2008 7:19:39 PM
Most of the professional development courses have been through my school as well. I have
never tried any online courses, but I think they would not be as useful because you cannot
17
ask in the classroom and have open discussions etc.. One thing that I think is for online
courses (and I have noticed this when using forums), is that things are well documented
and you can easily go back to things that you may need.
As for the motivation behind continuing education, I just think it is a matter of survival.
Technology is evolving so fast and you need to keep up by educating yourself. During my
degree, all of my courses were in classroom classes. My institution is a non-profit
University.
'3.1.7 Tahir 4/30/2008 8:41:42 PM
My academic commitments while pursuing my PHD consumes much of my time. This is the
biggest hindrance for me to take any professional development courses outside the
campus. However, I have taken a few courses which are offered to the students for free in
my university. I have taken 2 courses on teaching methods in higher education. The
motivation was to improve teaching skills and also exchange views with experienced
professors on teaching skills and techniques. I have also taken 2 other courses on
presentation and public speaking. One of the courses I took was not a totally traditional
one but a combination of traditional classroom and onsite evaluation. But I have not taken
any online organized course. I have taken a few self directed online courses and I read a
lot of online tutorials. I have a variety of interests from professional to politics, literature,
poetry and philosophy and read on these topics quite frequently from the online resources.
'3.1.8 Gorn 4/30/2008 9:31:50 PM
My recent professional courses are traditional academic classes a few years ago since I am
finishing up my PhD, like Tahir. In recent years, I have been doing self teaching and
research on topics which are not offered at my school. These include reading publications,
taking online seminars (i.e. webcast from TechWeb), and going through free online classes
(i.e. MIT online classes).
'3.1.9 thomas
4/30/2008 11:23:33 PM
I have not taken a class of any type in some time. I have lived on worked over the years
in locations where there were no close schools and in those days on-line distance learning
was just starting. I currently live in an area with plenty of traditional universities but have
been working with small companies that do not pay for continuing education and I do not
have enough free time.
Motivation is simple I enjoy learning new things, at this point in my career continuing
education for career development is not as important as it was in the past. I would choose
a topic of interest whether it has career connections or not.
'3.1.10
Ron
4/30/2008 11:26:38 PM
The most recent professional course that I've taken was a computer forensics course. This
course was through a for-profit company, and it was an online course with a live
instructor. The course met once a week, and the instructor would go through some lecture
on the material and we students would work through some exercises on our computers
during and after class. If we were unable to attend a class on a given day, the lecture
session was archived so we could listen to it later.
The motivation was both from a personal interest as well as developing this skill for my
job. I love it when my personal interest lines up with my job duties.
'3.1.10.1 Robin - Moderator
5/1/2008 8:17:01 AM
Ron - How did you like the online course? How did it compare with a traditional classroom
18
course? Do you think you learned as much?
'3.1.10.1.1
Ron
5/3/2008 11:03:13 AM
I really got a lot out of hte online course. The interaction was the big thing for me (and
for other students in the class from the comments I heard during the class).
Comparing it to a traditional classroom course, I would offer the following observations:
- the convenience of not having to travel to the classroom was a big benefit for me. It
reduced the time commitment somewhat.
- "technical difficulties" during one class (connectivity problems from the instructor's
end) were really frustrating.
- Not actually seeing the other students didn't make much of a difference in the
interaction for me since enough students were active with the interactive chat to make
people feel comfortable using it.
- One definite difference from a traditional classroom is that the discussion seemed to
stay focused on relevant material more so than some of the classrooms I've been in.
- As far as how much I learned, I feel that I got just as much out of the online
interactive course as I have from traditional classroom ones. The main thing in both
cases is how much you put into the learning.
'3.1.11
Mike 4/30/2008 11:52:28 PM
The most recent training class that I have taken was provided (for not change) from our
tool vendor (System Verilog Training, from Synopsys Inc.) My employer allowed me to
attend during work hours, so the time requirement was not such an issue in this case.
This (System Verilog) is a tool that I use each day, so that provided the motivation for
learning more about it.
My primary motivation for learning is to become more skilled in the various aspects of
electronic design.
I see from the other responses that making time for training is an issue for all of us.
I feel that a self paced on line training course helps to make the time requirements
flexible. On the other hand, if the training is very specialized, I can be difficult to provide in
an “on line” format.
Also, there is a benefit to the personal interaction that comes with a physical class room I
think.
'3.1.11.1 Robin - Moderator
5/1/2008 8:21:05 AM
Yes, making time for training is no doubt an issue. I would have thought online training
would appeal to people for this reason. Am I wrong?
'3.1.11.1.1
Bill
5/3/2008 9:48:41 AM
I agree. That would be the only way for me to spend more than a day in school.
Billable hours come first. The discussion group from IEEE is mixed - academic, young
professionals, seasoned veterans. You will have to get the demographics from the
answers and attirudes you see in the answers. And IEEE has profiles of most of us, so
you can fine tune that. Maybe the survey will define a target market within IEEE.
'3.1.11.1.2
Ron
5/3/2008 11:04:49 AM
That would be 100% accurate in my case.
19
'3.1.11.1.2.1
Robin - Moderator
5/3/2008 8:22:57 PM
Ah yes, I totally understand about those billable hours. Interesting point.
'3.1.12
David 5/1/2008 2:41:19 AM
As my career focus in now primarily in management rather than engineering, most of my
recent classes have been in the area of leadership and people skills. Webinars have been
the primary venue as they provide convenience and flexibility for scheduling.
Motivation is certainly to enhance skills and abilities in the areas I've been asked to lead
and manage.
Beyond classes, reading is extremely important to continue to be exposed to new and
creative ideas. Good to Great (Collins), Managing by Values (Blanchard), and Five
Dysfunctions (Lencioni) are some of my recent reads.
'3.1.13
Leili
5/1/2008 9:39:44 AM
I haven't taken a course outside my college degree yet. But the main reason that I've
signed up for IEEE is for continuing my education, learn new skills that are useful in my
current job, and learn new skills for a possible career change. And it will be great if the
courses give me more credibility on my resume.
'3.1.14
Bill
5/1/2008 12:03:35 PM
As a PE, I take courses that earn PDHs and sometimes also CEUs. Last actual college
courses were some time ago, but I attended Auburn, NCState, UMissouri, UABirmingham,
other places. Those were all short courses related to Utility operation and system
protection.
'3.1.15
Mohammed 5/1/2008 12:39:35 PM
I finished my last course 4 years ago as a part of my PhD program in the University of
Waterloo.
I essentially work in Ain Shams University in Egypt where I'm on leave to take my degree.
However, the study is supported by a research assistantship through my supervisor and
not through Ain Shams University.
The course were typical classroom type.
I can't say I relate much to other experiences posted here. I see that most of them went
to the industry somehow and then tried to take some courses that will be beneficial in their
work. However, for me, taking these courses was actually a part of my job as I still want
to continue with an academic career.
'3.1.16
Maurice
5/1/2008 2:04:06 PM
The most recent courses that I have taken are Fundamentals of Power Systems. I attended
this course at Florida A&M Univ., the course was in a traditional classroom. I am interested
in graduate school at FAMU.
'3.1.17
Shreeram
5/1/2008 2:42:31 PM
I haven't been able to take any professional course or courses/certifications as of now. I
am still confused with whether the online certifications/degrees will have similar
recognition as the classroom based degrees.
20
Taking some certifications online is my interest in the future. Some of the topics i am
interested are: project management, IT management etc. (mostly business related as i am
looking forward to an opportunity to have my own business one day).
'3.1.18
Fred 5/1/2008 3:00:33 PM
The last course I took was through my employer. I'm not sure if the instructor was an
employee or someone hired from the outside. The class was taught in a company building
and all the students worked for the company. As a large company they had a variety of
courses that they offered to employees on a regular basis. Some of the courses were
required of all employees (sexual harassment awareness comes to mind), others were
expected of people in my position, although with these classes you didn't have to take the
company version if you already had taken the materail elsewhere.
'3.2
Robin - Moderator
4/28/2008 11:28:06 AM
In general, when you are looking for a particular program or area in which you want to
acquire knowledge or skills and you do not have a particular resource in mind, where do you
start your search? How do you go about finding what you need?
For example, think of the last time you decided to take a class. What was going through
your head about where you might find what you wanted? Where did you begin your search?
'3.2.1 Russell 4/30/2008 9:07:17 AM
Simple: Google.
I suppose the underlying point to be inferred from the question is that the IEEE is likely a
source of information for education. To that point, I've never yet used the IEEE as a
source of information on education. That simply comes down to having never spent the
time reviewing the services that the IEEE has to offer.
'3.2.1.1
Robin - Moderator
4/30/2008 2:53:03 PM
Hah, you've got me all figured out, Russell.
But WHY haven't you spent time reviewing IEEE options? I mean, you're a member. IEEE
has vast resources right there...
Trying to understand...
'3.2.1.1.1 Russell 4/30/2008 5:40:06 PM
It comes down to time. I'm perpetually swamped with work. Unfortunately, unless it
directly affects near term goals, then reviewing Web sites tends to be a lower priority
than more mission critical activities. Inevitably, low priority items drop off the bottom
of the list.
'3.2.1.2
Shreeram
5/1/2008 3:02:14 PM
If i am aware of at least 'some' academic resources, i would not google it for a credible
and succinct results. In my opinion, it would be a one of the worst way of wasting my
time growing through volumes of search results and coming up with the 'best' and
credible link that I can trust.
Having said that, IEEE.org is one of the best technical resources that i tend to search.
Plus, University's continuing education sites (perhaps better for students) are other
important places to get good information.
21
'3.2.2 Bronis 4/30/2008 1:22:53 PM
I find out about a lot of things by attending conferences. As far as management training,
various flyers come my way and occassionally they look interesting. Other times, stuff is
required by my job...
'3.2.3 Ben
4/30/2008 1:28:09 PM
I start with my university and then employer, after that I turn to google, like the previous
post I have not thought about the IEEE site for formal training.
I also try to attend as many seminars and presentions as I am able to get to.
'3.2.4 Ryan 4/30/2008 2:06:06 PM
I think the internet in general would be my answer. All of my University's course
information is online as well as the University in Germany that I am looking at. Other than
college courses the only other course I have looked for would be one learning basic
German. For that I started in Google, but then followed links from those pages and
advertisements to other websites with different offerings.
'3.2.4.1
Robin - Moderator
4/30/2008 2:53:58 PM
I'm interested that none of you so far has mentioned IEEE as a resource. Why's that?
'3.2.4.1.1 Russell 4/30/2008 5:52:29 PM
The IEEE has simply never entered my mind as such a resource. No doubt, now that
my attention has been raised, I will include it in the future.
Perhaps an interesting question would be, why does the IEEE never seem to appear in
Web search engine results for training resources?
I've found many IEEE papers via Google before, yet I don't ever recall having seen
results relating to training.
As trivial examples, I've just tried searching for both "electronic training courses" and
"engineering training courses" using Google. Unless I specifically add "IEEE" as a term, I
don't find relevant IEEE links within the first few pages of results.
'3.2.4.1.1.1
Robin - Moderator
5/1/2008 8:22:17 AM
Really!!!!!!????? IEEE doesn't appear at the very top of search engine results?
'3.2.4.1.1.1.1 Russell 5/1/2008 9:12:44 AM
Nope. And that's actually more than a little baffling. If you enter
"link:www.ieee.org" into Google, you'll find that, as might be expected, the IEEE has
a very large number of back links pointing to it. This should cause Google's
PageRank algorithm to rank the IEEE highly. The fact that I don't get hits for search
terms that I would expect the IEEE to match on is, well, odd.
For the "electronic training courses" search, then the top ranking result is from
www.etcourse.com. Shoving "link:www.etcourse.com" into Google suggests just 28
back links, as compared to 190,000+ for the IEEE.
So, are my search terms just not appropriate, or is the IEEE not addressing some
important part of the PageRank algorithm? e.g. is the Web site too static? Are there
insufficient back links pointing specifically at the Education Partners Program page?
Of the 190,000+ back links that do exist for the IEEE, how many point to a page that
mentions (in text as opposed to graphics) training related terms?
22
'3.2.4.1.1.1.1.1
Robin - Moderator
5/1/2008 11:42:45 AM
Very curious. Thanks for this information. It's definitely something to look into. So
many people Google and just expect they're getting all that's out there.
'3.2.4.1.2 Tahir 4/30/2008 8:49:19 PM
I do use IEEE Xplore a lot for finding information on technical topics.
'3.2.4.1.3 David 5/1/2008 2:45:12 AM
I tend to think of the IEEE as an information source rather than an educational service.
'3.2.4.1.4 Gorn 5/3/2008 4:36:49 PM
I don't consider IEEE as a resource since I cannot learn about new topics from IEEE.
For example, I do research about machine learning, I use IEEE for publication search
about this topic. All these publications always assume I know all the machine learning
basis. If I were to just start learning about machine learning, IEEE would not be the
place to jump into.
'3.2.5 Hesam 4/30/2008 6:09:33 PM
Russel put it well, I think everyone goes first to google and secondly IEEE brand
conception is not really have been affiliated with training or education, rather it is an
umbrella for Electrical Engineer's professional activities (peer review and publishing papers
mostly, organizing conferences not courses). But as I said there is a niche market
(Teaching business to Engineers) which IEEE can exploit.
I think in future if I am interested in any training it is gonna be through IEEE conferences
or my company.
'3.2.6 Emad 4/30/2008 7:21:29 PM
Well...Google is it. I find that google usually links to IEEE explore anyway. However, I find
it can also lead you to other resources that the IEEE cannot take you to.
'3.2.7 Tahir 4/30/2008 8:47:34 PM
I search the internet and university library. From internet I use Google, IEEE publications
section of the website, ACM website and the websites of other journals to find the tutorials
on the topic I am interested in. You was wondering why no one has mentioned IEEE:). I
think the guys doing research and in academics turn to the IEEE publications quite
frequently.
'3.2.8 Gorn 4/30/2008 9:45:20 PM
In my opinion, the name IEEE is strongly associated with academic research and
publication as advertised in many conferences and journals (i.e. IEEE Conference on... or
IEEE Transaction on ...). The idea of using IEEE as resources for classes is relatively new
and not being strongly advertised.
When Google-ing for some technical topics, I only see publications and conferences--never
online classes offered through IEEE.
'3.2.9 thomas
4/30/2008 11:29:35 PM
today, on-line searching provides a vast amount of information. Although I may want to
understand a topic in more depth, something a formal class might offer, the real driving
force is the immediate need to solve a problem. On-line searches for application notes,
data sheets, white papers and such are so easy today. When time is critical and that is
99% of the time it is the only practical way to go.
23
'3.2.10
Ron
4/30/2008 11:34:25 PM
I would have to agree with a number of previous posters - Google is a good friend of mine.
If it doesn't show up early on the hit list from Google, I would need a good reason to go
that direction.
That being said, one other source of education info that I rely on is people I associate with
at work. And the people I work with aren't IEEE members so that wouldn't be something
that I would likely hear from them.
Sometimes postal mailings will get my attention, but that only really works for something
that I'll need in the short term. I'm getting old, and the memory doesn't hold a lot of
things like it used to. :-)
'3.2.11
Mike 5/1/2008 12:13:38 AM
Much of the training that I invest in is based on recommendations from co-workers.
When I don’t have any recommendation from co-workers, then I will start to use the
internet to see what is available.
Often times an “on line” version of the training does not exist. In this case, the local
Universities become a place to look.
'3.2.12
David 5/1/2008 3:07:53 AM
The internet is valuable, but I tend to gravitate to books. I like the ability to study and
have reference information for the future. Not every subject can be contained in a
webpage.
I'm lucky to have several universities nearby that offer seminars and short courses. My
present position doesn't dictate immediate topical education as one may find in product
development. It's easier as a leader to grow slow and steady.
'3.2.12.1 Robin - Moderator
5/1/2008 8:25:36 AM
Okay, so if most of you are Googling and IEEE doesn't always appear at the top I wonder
what IEEE could do to raise awareness of its educational alternatives? There is a vast
resource of training options available, but of so many people don't know about them, it's
a big missed opportunity.
'3.2.12.1.1
Russell 5/1/2008 9:18:49 AM
Perhaps they could pony up a little cash to pay for "sponsored links" on the major
search engines.
'3.2.12.1.2
Gorn 5/3/2008 4:39:26 PM
The program website should definitely be search engine friendly. If the website support
indexing well for search engines, the search results will be higher on the list.
'3.2.13
Leili
5/1/2008 9:44:19 AM
I've looked online on google like everyone else. And I've also looked at the online course
material from MIT and Stanford. But I prefer a class like experience, with a start time and
a finish time, and a semi-group experience. That's why I am hoping to be able to do that
through IEEE. Somehow I feel that way it can be better guided. But I'm not sure. Perhaps
that something you can explain for me here?
24
'3.2.14
Bill
5/1/2008 12:06:47 PM
Today, I need classes offered my manufacturers or software providers that will keep me up
to date on the latest tools and offerings. They send salesmen to our clients and talk them
into the latest things then I have to implement them. Hard to keep up!
'3.2.15
Mohammed 5/1/2008 12:42:45 PM
Well somehow this question is more suitable for people who work in the industry. As for
me, I just chose the courses that are offered in my department and fit my research.
However, by reading the various posts, I would have to say Google as well and I would
have to admit that maybe IEEE wouldn't have crossed my mind.
'3.2.16
Shreeram
5/1/2008 3:04:06 PM
I always start with the 'continuing education' department of the university that i recently
graduated from. IEEE.org is certainly the other point of search.
'3.2.17
Fred 5/1/2008 3:07:45 PM
I would search the online company catalog. I have also used the catalogs, etc. that I would
receive in the mail. Usually in this case I had some idea of what class I would like to take
and did they have something close at a time/place that I could attend?
'3.2.17.1 Robin - Moderator
What online company catalog?
5/1/2008 4:29:07 PM
'3.2.17.1.1
Fred 5/1/2008 7:40:18 PM
It was on the company's intranet, not on the internet.
'3.2.18
Zafar 5/2/2008 1:18:07 PM
I would search the IEEE publications sections if I am looking for existing research/data on
a particular topic that I may be working on but not when I am looking for classes. I also
use IEEE for getting information on standards during design activity.
As others have mentioned, IEEE doesn't come to mind when you are thinking of training
material. I would refer to friends and colleagues for that.
'3.2.19
Donna 5/2/2008 7:02:09 PM
I generally start my search by looking for a book or reference that pertains to the subject
of interest. A conference or online training is often a secondary consideration, but I have
used online training provided by the IEEE Computer Society to brush up on specific
computer skills. I often look to the Computer Society courses and offerings from O'Reilly
publishing as a primary resource. And of course, Google and Wikipedia.
'3.3
Robin - Moderator
4/28/2008 11:28:00 AM
When you were looking for your last continuing education class, did you have in mind a
traditional classroom course or an online course?
What is your opinion of the value of online courses vs. traditional classroom courses?
'3.3.13
Robin - Moderator
5/1/2008 8:28:15 AM
Tell me more about your likes/dislikes and perceptions of online training courses. Many of
you have never tried one. Would you ever? What would convince you that an online
training course is worthwhile?
And if you have taken one...can you tell the group more about how it worked? For
25
example, I took an online course recently on botanical illustration (okay, stop laughing
now). There was specialized software that allowed us to chat with the other students in a
bulletin board format not unlike this one. Course materials, written and video, were
provided in chunks. We had a schedule where we had to post our assignments (really
feeble plant drawings in my case) and could share with the other students. I received
emails when the course instructor had posted grades and comments or when other
students had posted messages for discussion.
How do other online courses work?
'3.3.13.1 Ryan 5/1/2008 8:37:33 PM
If I was convinced that the online course had additional benefits compared to the
traditional classroom then I would opt for online. Other than that, the only reason I
would consider online courses would be if they were more convenient (traditional
classroom too far away... online less expensive, etc.)
'3.3.13.2 Bronis 5/2/2008 9:35:48 AM
My job has many on-line training courses. They cover a variety of safety and other daily
issues. They are not very exciting or enriching. Perhaps my view of on-line courses is
tainted...
'3.3.13.3 Ron
5/3/2008 11:13:13 AM
My most recent one was interactive. It met once a week. The instructor had sreaming
audio for lecture. He had a synchronized set of slides as he was talking. There was a
chat system available to ask questions or to talk to other students. We also had a set of
books with much of the same info in it along with some exercises in it to see if we
understood what was covered. We typically completed the exercises between classes. In
this particular case, I wasn't taking the course for a grade, but there was a test at the
end of the course to test if you understood and retained the important concepts in the
class.
For me, the reputation of the provider or course itself would be the determining factor of
whether or not I would consider taking the course.
'3.3.13.3.1
Robin - Moderator
5/3/2008 8:24:48 PM
Interesting approach. I would have thought that the real-time aspect would negate
some of the advantages of an online course.
'3.3.1 Russell 4/30/2008 9:19:49 AM
I would have usually looked for a classroom/workshop based courses.
I've never followed an on-line class, so I can't make any educated comments on their
value. Do such courses offer take-away materials and felxibiliy in schedule? If at least the
latter is true, then at least one problem that I have in attending traditional courses would
be addressed. Moreover, the elimination of travel time/cost would also be an significant
advantage.
On the other hand, perhaps the biggest benefit that I gain from externally directed
learning is interactivity with an experienced teacher. It seems to me that such
interactivity would be preclusive to my desire for flexibility in schedule. That being so,
then the value of the "on-line" part would seem to dwindle; just send me the documents
and I'll read them on the train!
26
'3.3.1.1
Robin - Moderator
4/30/2008 2:54:58 PM
Maybe some of the other participants can offer their perspectives on online classes--the
value and what you get.
'3.3.2 Bronis 4/30/2008 1:24:40 PM
On-line course can have value although generally I will just read papers to find out about
stuff. Traditional classroom course or other things through conferences have the
advantage of being more interactive and meeting other people is enjoyable.
'3.3.3 Ben
4/30/2008 1:50:07 PM
As a student I have an option to take online classes. However I choose not to.
I have taken online courses in the past and while the flexibility of hours is great that is
where the advantage ends. The interaction lacks and you are teaching yourself. As a
student I learn best from other students and teaching other students, both of these do not
happen on online courses.
Now the third type is the online classroom or virtual classroom, online courses with set
times, voice, viedo, and chat support. These have been benificial and alow a greater
geographic area to attend
'3.3.3.1
Russell 4/30/2008 5:59:39 PM
Ben raises a very good point about teaching others. I used to teach at a university.
From that experience, I can tell you that having a good understanding of a subject is
essential to being able to teach it to others. This is perhaps why I like workshops, where
the interactivity includes helping one's peers to learn.
'3.3.4 Ryan 4/30/2008 2:13:48 PM
All of the courses offered for me are traditional classroom instruction, so I always know I
will be in a classroom. I haven't yet taken an online course, but I think in the end you
could get the same benefits as a traditional classroom if it is more along the lines of the
"virtual classroom" Ben was talking about. Since I haven't taken one it's hard for me to
judge. If you are a working professional I can certainly see the online course's benefits in
terms of convenience; as a full-time student though I much prefer the classroom setting.
'3.3.5 Hesam 4/30/2008 6:19:16 PM
I think traditional classroom courses like tutorials offered in conferences serve better as it
offers 1) high interaction with tutor 2) networking with other attendees 3) you hear other
people's questions and concerns. The "schedule inflexibility" is not an issue because when
you go for a conference you already have scheduled to put that part of your time aside for
conference so a workshop or tutorial on top of the conference (which is usually offered one
or two days before the conference) is convenient.
'3.3.6 Emad 4/30/2008 7:24:37 PM
Yes, I also prefer the classroom/conference. I think that online courses have some value,
but I don't think that the advantages of online courses out weight the advantages of going
to the classroom and interacting with others, asking questions, etc...
'3.3.7 Tahir 4/30/2008 9:00:56 PM
I have not thought about taking a continuing education class for sometime. But I would
probably like a traditional classroom. The reason is that the traditional classroom is more
interactive and spontaneous. There is also a personal human touch in a traditional
classroom which is missing when you use a virtual classroom. I just feel like I am talking
27
to the machine. It will be interesting to know the feelings of other participants on this.
Inspite of my personal preference, I think online courses are very valuable. It gives you
the flexibility and a global reach. They can also bring people across the world together to
share their experiences without any need to travel. Also they can be quite useful for
developing countries and the students from those countries can benefit from the experts in
the developed world and enhance their skills and knowledge.
'3.3.8 Gorn 4/30/2008 9:59:42 PM
I prefer online courses (non-interactive ones i.e. video webcast or online reading) as an
introduction to the topic that I am interested in. This helps me to understand the general
idea related to the topic. Material presented in this type of courses are usually suitable for
not-too technical subject (i.e. intro to digital signal processing).
When I need to learn more technical subjects (i.e. efficiency of software radio), I turn to a
traditional classes/workshop or an interactive online "virtual" classes. This allows me to
ask questions and listen to others questions as well as getting to know other attendances
and asking their help/helping them.
'3.3.9 thomas
4/30/2008 11:37:10 PM
all things considered i would prefer a traditional classroom. I think it is the structure. It is
much the same as whether to purchase work out club membership or buy the equipment
for use at home, if buy the membership you feel more obligated to go and get your
money's worth, you can always put off working out at home for day and once the cycle is
broken it is easy to skip. With a formal classroom i think you are less likely to skip.
as for value both have a good value if the course is properly set up, we have all had bad
instructors and a poorly structured on-line class is worse.
'3.3.9.1
Donna 5/2/2008 7:15:47 PM
You have a point about the motivational of getting your money's worth out of a gym
membership, but I'm not sure the analogy holds in this case. Personally I wouldn't
pursue training unless the subject was compelling enough to hold my interest for the
duration.
'3.3.10
Ron
4/30/2008 11:44:27 PM
My current employer will not pay for travel expenses, and courses for many of the topics
I've looked for don't have any traditional classes available locally. Thus, it's usually an
online course. I've been through both read-the screen classes as well as virtual
classrooms (with archived audio if you couldn't attend the live session). Most of the readthe-screen ones put me to sleep to easily. It's like the people who design them don't care
about presentation. The virtual classrooms that I've attended have held my interest much
more easily, and the interaction with the other students can add a lot to what might
otherwise be a standard presentation of dry information.
I also do well with traditional classroom courses. I've attended a number of those in the
past few years also. The one big advantage with the traditional classrooms is that I get
out of the office while the training is going on. There's no way people can interrupt me (at
least easily) during the class. That's one of worst problems with online any kind. If I'm at
work, someone will bother me with the latest "emergency."
'3.3.11
Mike 5/1/2008 12:31:33 AM
I always prefer live training to an online class for the same reasons stated by the others.
Live classes are typically higher quality than online training because the instructor and
28
other students are available for live interaction.
However, I sometimes take online classes because they have been recommended as
valuable.
Also, if done well (good course material, in a virtual class room setting), on line training
can come very close to the quality of live training.
'3.3.12
David 5/1/2008 3:11:55 AM
Online courses tend to fit schedules most easily. I really enjoy the traditional classroom,
mainly for the interaction with other students and the instructor. Online courses seem to
be more simplistic because the indepth investigation is difficult to employ.
My Masters degree is from Washington State University and it was offered in a distance
learning/video conference format that tied five locations throughout the state together.
The technology served the purpose very well.
'3.3.14
Leili
5/1/2008 9:50:16 AM
Both!
I like the online courses for flexibility. But traditional classroom sounds better, because at
least I know I will be dedicating a specific time period in my week to the course subject.
Sometimes the flexibility that online courses offer can lead to an unorganized schedule
which doesn't help learning in my opinion.
'3.3.15
Bill
5/1/2008 12:10:49 PM
I don't see much of what I'm looking for as an online class. Once in a while I sit in on a
webcast, and that can be very good.
Traditional classes are best, but require time I may not have. Online or web-based are
flexible and convey the information. LEARNING is harder, because it's easy to be
distracted, so you have to hacve the same dedication as in the classroom.
'3.3.15.1 Robin - Moderator
5/1/2008 12:50:59 PM
Can you clarify what you mean by "I don't see much of what I'm looking for as an online
class?" Do you mean the kind of classes you want aren't available?
'3.3.15.1.1
Bill
5/3/2008 8:38:21 AM
I look for short courses that are relevant to what I'm into at the moment. Mostly, I;m
reading the email ads sent to me, not actively looking for a specific class. So I'm not
looking very hard to find something.
'3.3.16
Mohammed 5/1/2008 12:47:33 PM
Well, in my department, there are no online course offered. And I have to say that I have
no experience with online courses whatsoever.
But I guess maybe online course are only suitable for two reasons:
1- People that have jobs and have no time to attend classes or whatever, so the time
wasted by the course would only actually be the time taken by the online activities, rather
than for example going to and coming back from the place where the course is offered.
2- People who are trying to take courses that are offered through institutions in other
cities, states or countries.
'3.3.17
Shreeram
5/1/2008 3:07:19 PM
29
As i mentioned earlier, "traditional classroom course Vs online course: credibility,
reputation, and recognition" have been my questions in taking some of the continuing
courses that i am looking forward to pursue in the future.
'3.3.17.1 Robin - Moderator
5/1/2008 4:26:04 PM
Shreeram - you earlier mentioned that you wondered about recognition of online
degrees...
Anyone - Do you know how online classes/degrees are generally perceived? Or at least
perceived among your peers?
'3.3.17.1.1
Russell 5/1/2008 4:57:34 PM
Good question. Perhaps I can relate what I consider to be a common perception about
one well established distance learning center, namely the Open University (OO) of the
UK. The OO has existed for a long time, perhaps many decades. By all first hand
accounts that I've heard, they're excellent.
However, I believe that the OO has had a long (perhaps still ongoing) struggle to
overcome the perception that their students are driven to distance learning, because
they can't free themselves from the menial jobs that they picked up when they missed
the education boat.
'3.3.17.1.2
David 5/1/2008 7:28:23 PM
Online classes are ok. Online degrees don't seem to have credibility.
'3.3.17.1.2.1
Hesam 5/1/2008 8:17:18 PM
That's exactly why I think IEEE needs to partner up with programs not just a mere
endorser. IEEE brand on the certificate would solve perception problem ( and I think if
IEEE has to put its brand on certificate then they would be very selective and/or partly
designer of the programs they partner.)
'3.3.17.1.3
Fred 5/1/2008 7:50:34 PM
Online courses from traditional institutions are generally well perceived, but 'diploma
mills', or places that appear to be, are not.
'3.3.17.1.4
Tahir 5/3/2008 8:35:59 AM
Among my peers online degrees are not well received and are considered of lower
quality.
'3.3.17.1.5
Bill
5/3/2008 8:41:48 AM
Online classes are just fine/ Online degrees are suspect, though. I have a friend that
got a doctor of divinity just for paying the fee. Looks good on the wall, but I didn't ask
him to perform my daughter's wedding.
'3.3.17.1.6
Ron
5/3/2008 11:15:35 AM
I know that a former boss was pretty much convinced that online classes were a waste
of time. I'm not sure if that's because of bad experiences or what. Right now, about
one third of my coworkers use self-paced online short courses on a regular (at least
twice a year) basis.
'3.3.17.1.7
Ben
5/3/2008 5:03:50 PM
an online class through a univserty is aceptable for the general education grouping of
classes.
30
I know on ZERO online degree that give meaning and I would think less of a person who
had one.
If a person said they took a online class to learn something for their own benifet then I
would think greater of them.
'3.3.17.1.7.1
Robin - Moderator
5/3/2008 8:26:48 PM
Now this is interesting. So an online class for enrichment and to learn a skill is a good
thing. But an online class for "credit," either a CEU or on the job, is not?
Too bad it's Saturday night. I would be curious to hear what others had to say on this.
'3.3.18
Fred 5/1/2008 3:11:59 PM
It's been awhile since my last continuing education class and online classes were still fairly
new adn not really on option.
'3.3.19
Zafar 5/2/2008 1:26:23 PM
My first preference would always be an traditional classroom course. I feel that there is no
substitute to a F2F teacher who is more easily accessible (considering phone,email,IM etc).
A good video conference facility might finally bridge the gap but I have not seen that so
far.
On the other hand on-line courses serve a good purpose for the type of classes where
some basic data just needs to be transmitted to a wide group of people. Example:
Company IP protection policies. Courses which involve less interaction with instructor and
other students.
'3.4
Robin - Moderator
4/28/2008 11:27:51 AM
Those are all the questions today. Tomorrow I will post a few more questions and asking
you specifically about your perceptions of the IEEE Education Partners Program.
You’ll need to have visited the site and have a general familiarity with its layout and
contents. You can visit that site at:
http://www.ieee.org/web/education/partners/eduPartners.html
or by clicking on the link in the whiteboard above.
Don’t forget, other participants may be logging on later today and adding to the discussion.
You may wish to log back in to see what new comments or follow-up questions are
available. You will know that there are new responses by the * under NEW in the left hand
column. You may need to click on one of the questions to refresh your screen.
Thank you!
Robin
'3.5
Robin - Moderator
Welcome back!
5/1/2008 12:15:00 AM
Today I want to talk more about Education Partners. If you haven’t already visited the
program’s website, please go and familiarize yourself with it now at:
http://www.ieee.org/web/education/partners/eduPartners.html
31
or by clicking on the link in the whiteboard above.
'3.6
Robin - Moderator
5/1/2008 12:15:00 AM
Ultimately, how important was the IEEE “brand” to this program? Did you have the
impression that by their inclusion in the program that IEEE somehow endorsed them as
education providers? Does their inclusion in the program make you think differently of the
participating educational institutions?
Again, after you respond, take a look at what others had to say. Do you agree or disagree
with their impressions?
'3.6.1 Robin - Moderator
5/1/2008 8:32:46 AM
Also, how many of you have the perception that IEEE has collaborated on the course
development with these universities? (I mean, did you think about that before I just
brought it up?)
'3.6.1.1
Russell 5/1/2008 8:52:26 AM
Nope, didn't get that impression at all.
'3.6.1.2
Bill
5/1/2008 12:16:52 PM
Didn't think so. I suppose that they presented something and it got a "peer review" to
see if it was "worthy." (Can you tell that I'm a Transactions Editor?)
'3.6.1.3
Shreeram
5/1/2008 3:13:37 PM
I think collaboration (in course development) with those universities would, indeed, put
more value to the courses offered.
'3.6.1.4
Gorn 5/1/2008 7:08:34 PM
Logically, I do not believe IEEE has anything to do with the course development. I
believe the most IEEE can do is to recommend certain requirements onto the institution,
not each individual course.
'3.6.1.5
Ryan 5/1/2008 8:46:38 PM
I didn't think about it until you mentioned it.
'3.6.1.6
Ron
5/1/2008 9:51:34 PM
Actually, I'm in the group that hadn't considered that before you brought it up. I still
don't have any reason to believe there was any collaboration.
'3.6.1.7
Tahir 5/2/2008 6:25:04 PM
No, I didnt had the impresion that IEEE has collaborated to design the courses. All I
thought was that IEEE might have reviewed the course content to see if they meet
certain requirements.
'3.6.1.8
Donna 5/2/2008 7:35:09 PM
It wouldn't have occurred to me that IEEE collaborated on course development, except to
the extent that courses may have been developed by an IEEE member, or members, and
they then create a shared participation on an individual basis.
'3.6.2 Russell 5/1/2008 8:51:58 AM
The IEEE represents a substantial collective of my peers. I suppose that I naturally and
unconsciously tend to trust my apparently in-group peers, even if only by association with
a society. The net effect, to me at least, would seem to be that if the IEEE suggests that it
32
has "carefully selected" something, then I tend to accept that the result has merit. Of
course, such blind acceptance of in-group advice was probably better suited to the
evolutionary survival of our ancestors than to making good selections in the face of
contemporary marketing.
The suggestion that the IEEE has "carefully selected" its partners leads me to believe that
the IEEE is endorsing those partners; accordingly, due to the effect described above, I
would unconsciously hold those partners in higher regard. The IEEE brand therefore
seems to be quite instrumental in establishing credibility for those partners.
'3.6.3 Bill
5/1/2008 12:14:55 PM
Yes, I expect the endorsement to mean something. I'm impressed and thing more highly
of some of the lesser-known participants.
'3.6.4 Shreeram
5/1/2008 3:11:10 PM
I think the IEEE brand puts a credibility into any sorts of programs that it endorses. I
wouldn't, however, think differently to the program offered by already reputed universities
in North America.
I wonder though whether IEEE would review the programs offered by it's 'education
partners".
'3.6.5 Fred 5/1/2008 3:23:08 PM
To me the IEEE brand means that the material and provider have been reviewed by IEEE.
The material is appropriate for IEEE members (i.e. it isn't too basic as some "colleges"
advertised on TV. Also they should be accredited and not likely to declare bankruptcy in
the middle of the term.
As for your follow up question I don't necessarily have any reason to believe IEEE has
collaborated with the providers in creating the class unless it is offered to IEEE members
only.
'3.6.6 Hesam 5/1/2008 3:59:00 PM
IEEE brand has high value to me as long as it doesn't end there recommending programs
but rather partnering in program making it an IEEE certificate sth like Microsoft
certificates.
'3.6.7 Gorn 5/1/2008 7:04:35 PM
The IEEE brand is good for the program. My impression to the program is that IEEE
endorses the institutions to some levels (i.e. the institution must meet certain
requirements set by IEEE). Since IEEE is well acknowledged by academic community, any
association between the participating institution and IEEE will infer similar
acknowledgement. Certainly, the inclusion in the program make me think differently of
the participating institutions.
'3.6.8 Ryan 5/1/2008 8:49:34 PM
Seeing the IEEE brand on those programs makes me think higher of them now than
before. If the IEEE logo is included as well then I would assume they are endorsed by the
IEEE.
'3.6.9 Ron
5/1/2008 9:50:08 PM
I think the IEEE brand adds a certain amount of credibility to the program in that it's not
just the provider saying it's a good program. For the institutions I'm not as familiar with,
33
inclusion in this program does make me feel more comfortable in considering that program
where I might not have otherwise.
'3.6.10
thomas
5/1/2008 11:48:08 PM
I would hope the IEEE adds credibility but I don't think the IEEE has any influence over the
them. I would like to see the IEEE more involved in education and development of a
strong engineering society, no i do not see the IEEEE as endorsing the educational
providess.
'3.6.11
Emad 5/2/2008 12:52:45 AM
I think that the IEEE really puts their name on these courses to brand rather than give the
impressions or play the development role.
'3.6.12
Mike 5/2/2008 3:44:36 AM
I feel that because IEEE provides information about these courses on the
http://www.ieee.org/web/education/partners/eduPartners.html web site, they are
endorsing these courses.
I do not see any information that indicates collaboration in course development, so I do
not get that impression.
'3.6.13
Ben
5/2/2008 1:41:39 PM
To me the IEEE brand is kinda hollow. I have gone to many presentations and seminars
that have IEEE in the title and all it seams to take is to be involved with IEEE or know
someone who and you get the endorsement. My scale of creditbility is that of acreditation.
Does the courses that are offered for information only or do they count towards
something.
'3.6.14
Tahir 5/2/2008 6:32:55 PM
In my opinion, IEEE brand adds the prestige to the course especially for the short courses
and the certificate programs. I am not quite sure about the regular Masters and Bachelors
degree offered through this partnership. However, my impression is that IEEE will select
their partners carefully.
'3.6.15
Donna 5/2/2008 7:23:29 PM
I perceive the program as a service offered to its membership, in much the same way
other services are offered, such as insurance. I also would make the assumption that
IEEE is able to offer discounts to members as quid pro quo for advertising for these
institutions. I might also infer that IEEE as an organization received benefits, tangible or
intangible for promoting programs offered by these entities.
I do not infer any endorsement by IEEE, other than as a business partner.
'3.6.15.1 Donna 5/2/2008 7:28:32 PM
On further review, I note that the web site states "The Partners are a carefully selected
number of universities and corporations reviewed and approved by highly qualified IEEE
volunteers." So yes, I now see that IEEE provides an endorsement of these
organizations.
'3.6.16
David 5/2/2008 7:27:57 PM
The IEEE brand bring an element of credibility and even a potential market, but many of
the institutions bring significant value on their own. For the institutions listed, I certainly
have a bias towards the ones I'm familiar with. If I were to pursue education in
conjunction with this program, I would certainly be considering the institution and its merit
34
in conjunction with the content. The IEEE endorsement is a secondary factor.
'3.6.17
Mohammed 5/2/2008 7:48:41 PM
Well, I never thought that IEEE would somehow take part in the design course curriculum.
I just thought their name was related somehow to the 10% discount and that's it.
For me, when a university gets in some sort of collaborative work with such organizations
as IEEE it enhances their image.
'3.6.18
Bronis 5/2/2008 11:33:59 PM
I'm not sure I understand the question. I have not taken IEEE on-line courses so it wasn't
relevant at all. On the other hand, almost all of the conferences and workshops that I
participate in are IEEE and/or ACM sponsored and this matters a lot. It is generally a real
sign of quality, as opposed to many conferences that are run to make a profit by collecting
fees from the publishing authors...
'3.7
Robin - Moderator
5/1/2008 12:15:00 AM
How well did the website do at providing you with information you needed to help you
evaluate the institution and the course you were interested in?
What information did you want or need that wasn’t provided on the website?
'3.7.1 Russell 5/1/2008 9:42:56 AM
I suppose that my information needs would consist of answering the questions of what,
where, when and how much.
Assuming that I know the topic that I'm interested in, then the search tool seems to
effectively address the what and where. It seems appropriate that the remaining two
questions should be answered by the Websites of the specific partners.
I wonder whether some kind of system of moderated reviews from previous attendee's
might be of some use as a quality feedback mechanism for prospective attendees.
'3.7.2 Bill
5/1/2008 12:29:59 PM
Well, drilling down into the offerings, that's a wide set of stuff! Specifically, I see a few
offings related to what I do and might be interested. Costs seem really high for on-line
training.
'3.7.3 Fred 5/1/2008 3:42:33 PM
The IEEE site provides very little information, you have to go to each providers website to
get any real information.
The IEEE site should consider doing a search of classes by subject (with buttons for online,
one/few (contiguous 8 hour) days, or traditional classes) and show class names along with
the institution name as link to the detailed class description. The current search (with the
BIG RIT) links don't really help.
'3.7.4 Gorn 5/1/2008 7:18:59 PM
I agree with all the previous responders before me. There is very little information
available on the IEEE website. I can suggest IEEE should collect information from all
participating institutions and format them into one-stop shop for degrees, certificates, etc.
What kind of information? Ideally, everything from fees, schedule, access methods that
are available to students registered for regular programs. Something like a registra office
35
webpage.
'3.7.4.1
Fred 5/1/2008 8:03:17 PM
While I don't disagree with Gorn, what he is proposing is more than what I proposed. I
would expect maintaining this much information would take quite a bit of work which is
why I proposed that IEEE just have the class names.
'3.7.5 Hesam 5/1/2008 8:27:50 PM
information on the site is so unbelievably unorganized and old-school. this kind of website
might be acceptable a decade ago. Which brings me to an important problem IEEE website
specially IEEExplore has. Search engine. IEEExplore's search engine seems to be too old
and outdated. it is so inefficient, why don't they use google for their search engine?
Actually IEEExplore's search dinasuar has damaged IEEE website's image in my mind, that
they don't have a good web team or hey don't care about their online face much. This
Education page seems to fit that perspective.
'3.7.5.1
Ryan 5/1/2008 8:54:01 PM
I agree with Hesam; the site is unorganized and confusing for me as someone who is not
familiar with it.
'3.7.6 Ron
5/1/2008 10:01:31 PM
I didn't see a lot of information on the IEEE site regarding specifics on a given class (much
like previous posters stated). I think even a basic collection of information for the
available classes would be a big help. I don't know that I'd go overboard with the info (I
know how difficult that would be to maintain accurately) but something like class, short
description, and delivery method would be some of the most useful things for me.
'3.7.7 thomas
5/2/2008 12:01:51 AM
the website is really only a starting place, you have to look at each institution individually
to determine what courses are available. For the website to be effective it needs a front
end tailored to finding a class of interest from all of the institutions, i don't want to search
each institution one at a time.
'3.7.8 Emad 5/2/2008 12:56:47 AM
I agree with Fred above. In addition, I do think that the cost is way too high. We have to
think that most people go to these courses to catch up on the latest, no one really plans to
take these on-line courses as part of a major degree or say they are an expert because
they took such a course. I think the pricing should reflect that.
'3.7.9 Mike 5/2/2008 4:06:50 AM
The IEEE website quickly sends you to the course provider web site.
I see that the provider web sites vary a lot in how well organized and how much
information is provided. RIT was very detailed and complete.
The GE website on the other hand, was not focused on course offerings. This made the
web site confusing to navigate and find information.
'3.7.9.1
Shreeram
5/2/2008 3:26:42 PM
I had a similar feelings as Mike on this topic. Some other websites are just too vague to
explore through.
'3.7.10
Shreeram
5/2/2008 3:24:54 PM
36
I think the website is sort of incomplete in terms of providing information on specific
programs offered by the institutions. This function may be the part of those institutions,
but the website only provides the names of the institutions offering some specific
programs. The search function is also just very basic and abstract. It needs to broaden the
subject areas/key words etc. that a user can search from.
'3.7.11
Ben
5/2/2008 4:01:29 PM
I would not use the site in its current configuration. I agree that the information is not
there. After looking closly I did find a search link, but its results are not usefull. I don't
know about the schools/services listed there. and as a Search it is not giving usefull
results, like classes or even nowing down a topic.
This has the feel of the email of all the places to get scholorships. kinda usefull but I could
find it through another source. Also as IEEE is not offering the classes why would I come
back to the site again?
'3.7.12
Tahir 5/2/2008 6:39:29 PM
I agree with most of the aprticipants that the website provides very little information. It
was hard to find the fee information, just mentioning a 10% discount for IEEE members is
not sufficient. A table providing information about different courses and arranged in
categories can be helpful.
'3.7.13
David 5/2/2008 7:47:32 PM
Following the links was easy and provided information that I could use to evaluate the
opportunities. Most engineers get enthusiastic when considering learning opportunities so
the information seemed adequate.
'3.7.14
Mohammed 5/2/2008 7:56:53 PM
I agree with a lot of the responses as the website hasn't got enough information. I don't
feel that I should be navigating the other universities sites to get the information (this
means more pages to go through which equals more difficult in my book).
Having all the courses (at least course titles) and tuition information on the IEEE website
would be very helpful.
'3.7.15
Donna 5/2/2008 8:31:36 PM
I'm not sure. The offerings on the web site are attractive. But other than the IEEE Expert
Now section, nothing compelled me to seek further information. The bullet point that
reads "One-hour online courses enable you to get up to speed quickly on emerging
technologies and trends" did catch my eye, and I will probably return to research this
option further at a later date.
'3.7.16
Bronis 5/2/2008 11:36:12 PM
I have not visited the IEEE Education Partners Program web site so I cannot evaluate it.
'3.7.16.1 Bronis 5/2/2008 11:42:50 PM
OK, I just found the URL in an earlier question (having the URL here would have been
helpful; a link would be even better). I looked over the site briefly. It seems rather busy
and hard to get the basics from. What types of courses are available? I care less who
they are affiliated with than what they are. It is very hard to discern from the current
layout. It appears the main emphasis is on MBA types of programs, which are more of a
commitment than I would be prepared to make. Once you get your career going (at least
once you have a PhD) you aren't looking for that much schooling. Frankly, I owuld stand
37
little to gain from adding an MBA to my CV; I am already in a management role and only
need a course here or there to augment my abilities in that area.
'3.7.16.1.1
Robin - Moderator
5/3/2008 8:16:12 AM
For anyone arriving late, you can get to the website again by clicking on the link in the
whiteboard above.
'3.7.16.2
Hi Bronis,
Robin - Moderator
5/3/2008 8:17:13 AM
Please visit the website by clicking on the link above in the whiteboard area.
'3.7.16.2.1
Bronis 5/3/2008 10:39:05 AM
I already had pasted it in. I didn't see the link in the whiteboard. Sorry.
'3.8
Robin - Moderator
5/1/2008 12:15:00 AM
Were there education providers you hoped were participating in the program that you didn’t
see there? Which ones?
Were there courses you hoped to take that weren’t offered through the IEEE Education
Partners program? What courses?
'3.8.1 Bill
5/1/2008 12:40:45 PM
Well, naturally, I'd like to see my alma mater in there. But I don't see prestegious non-US
institutions in there either. University of Alberta, University of Birmingham (England),
Politecnico di Milano, aand so forth. I work with many professors from other IEEE regions
and have been the invited professor at some of these places. I don't know if their
offerings would be especially accepted in the US, but, hey, it's IEEE. We are global.
Not what I was expecting, but hard to say what exactly I was expecting. Maybe short
courses on individual topics rather than a college semester offered piecemeal.
'3.8.1.1
Fred 5/1/2008 4:03:29 PM
I regularly get short course catalogs in the mail. Maybe if IEEE were to work with the
providers of these as well as full degree providers.
'3.8.1.2
Shreeram
5/2/2008 3:27:47 PM
Could not agree more with Biil on this.
'3.8.2 Fred 5/1/2008 4:01:47 PM
I was looking though the online courses and saw very little that interested me. I suspect
that if I was looking for traditional classes I would find a full offering.
As for the providers there are a few big names, but I suspect that most institutions aren't
willing to give a 10% discount for the amount of advertising they would get through IEEE.
'3.8.3 Russell 5/1/2008 5:25:57 PM
Seems to be a broad cross section of subjects. I chose to look for a handful of topics that
have interest for me (software, networking, telecommunications, project management,
business management) and found something interest on each, both short courses and long
programs.
I have to agree with Bill though. Since we're including the concept of on-line learning,
38
then why limit ourselves to Northern America. There are no doubt a lot of great resources
beyond these borders.
As a side note, the link for Knowledge Master seems to be broken, which is a tad
frustrating.
'3.8.4 Gorn 5/1/2008 7:26:25 PM
The first thing I look for on the list of participating institutions is some big name schools.
From the current list, I only recognize 3 institutions. If IEEE can get more well-known
institutions, it will be more attractive. However, I am not sure if that is likely to happen.
'3.8.4.1
Robin - Moderator
Interesting.
5/1/2008 7:37:40 PM
EVERYONE - What do you consider the "big named schools?"
And what are the big names in for-profit education providers?
'3.8.4.1.1 Fred 5/1/2008 8:10:10 PM
Schools such as MIT, Cal Poly, Stanford that many people recognize are big name
schools. I recognize 3 of the schools.
Mead is one for-profit school that is well regarded. University of Phoenix is one big name
school that isn't well regarded although it is better than some other for-profit school.
'3.8.4.1.2 Hesam 5/1/2008 8:33:33 PM
yeah I agree, big names can attract people.(the same brand problem which I mentioned
in IEEE brand question) I find MIT, Stanford, Berkeley, Caltech, U of Columbia
recognized brands.
'3.8.4.1.3 Ryan 5/1/2008 9:01:36 PM
I am not familiar with the for-profit education providers. As for big-name schools the
ones everyone else has mentioned- but beyond that I seem to have a negative
perception of any higher education institution that advertises. Maybe I'm alone in this,
but when I see or hear TV/radio commercials for a particular institution I seem to
perceive them as lower on the totem pole.
'3.8.4.1.4 Shreeram
5/2/2008 3:35:51 PM
I think, it comes down to the 'reputation'. Would anyone hire a person from a Maharishi
School of Management (just taking an example here) if they have a choice of hiring a
candidate with similar skills and experiences from MIT, Cal Tech or Stanford ? When i
interviewed for a position recently, i felt like this was one of the factors. Reputations,
schools rankings published by various credible agencies..etc.
'3.8.4.1.5 Tahir 5/2/2008 6:48:48 PM
Big names are the ones ranked among the top 100. Although I dont agree with these
rankings because sometimes they are inspired by commercial motives.
'3.8.5 Ron
5/1/2008 10:11:21 PM
I didn't really have any particular providers in mind to look for.
As far as courses, I found a number of management-related courses that looked
interesting. I had difficulty finding ones more directly related to some of my current job
39
duties (computer forensics and advanced level computer/network security).
'3.8.6 thomas
5/2/2008 12:07:12 AM
big name providers are great, but it really gets down to content, i have my degrees, so
simply signing up because institution xyz is providing a class is not that important to me. i
am looking for content, a well structured class that will provide the knowledge and
information about a topic that i am looking for, just because the institution has a big name
is not important to me.
'3.8.7 Mike 5/2/2008 4:23:38 AM
There are good providers (Such as RIT) presented in the Education Partners web site.
I did hope for more distance learning opportunities from Universities (MIT, U. C. Berkeley,
Univ. of Minnesota). I consider these to be “big name” providers. They are names that are
easily recognized and respected by workers in the industry.
'3.8.7.1
Shreeram
5/2/2008 3:30:21 PM
I have found somewhat partially-complete list of the topics that I am interested in those
sites.
'3.8.7.2
Donna 5/2/2008 8:40:53 PM
Some of these institutions provide course content on-line.
resource for tune-up of skills that need maintenance.
I consider this a valuable
It would be great if IEEE provided a catalog of these types of offerings, but considering
I'm not volunteering to work on that effort, I'll demure on that proposal.
'3.8.7.2.1 Donna 5/2/2008 8:56:12 PM
Oops! The statement above should have read:
Some of these institutions provide course content ~free~ online.
Free being a significant attribute.
'3.8.8 Ben
5/2/2008 4:12:10 PM
ok so I did a search for control systems, and the results showed several schools, none of
which I have ever heard of, so in just that respect I would not use this services as it
stands.
I picked on at random (Willis College of Business & Technology)and clicked on their link for
course information and it talks about "Clean Energy Courses & Programs" This does not
apear to be about control systems.
At this point that is two strikes and I would not come back to either that school or IEEE
site.
Time is the most precious resource and it has been wasted with that search engine.
'3.8.9 Tahir 5/2/2008 6:46:46 PM
Well because I am from Canada so I hoped that some of the Canadian schools should be
participating. But unfortunately I didnt find any of them on the list. It is disappoiniting to
me. May be because it is the new initiative and later on new schools will become partners.
My interest for the continuing studies is more on the management side and I found some
courses on that.
'3.8.10
David 5/2/2008 7:54:51 PM
40
The 'famous' engineering schools are certainly desired, though some periphery programs
don't necessarily need to be from MIT. Sometimes top notch programs covering project
management, finances, environmental engineering or other topical elements can be best
served by non-engineering schools.
Because of the depth of programs at places like RIT, most topics I'd be interested in
seemed to be available.
'3.8.11
Mohammed 5/2/2008 7:59:22 PM
I just noticed that most of the universities are in the US, i'm not sure if there's a reason
for that.
'3.8.12
Bronis 5/2/2008 11:44:51 PM
As I just said in my other post, the providers, particularly for on-line courses, are less of
the issue. I would accept that going through the IEEE site should provide a certain level of
quality. But, I need a fast, easy way to skim the topics (I saw a way to search topics but
not browse them; perhaps I missed that in the busy layout focused on providers).
'3.9
Robin - Moderator
5/1/2008 12:15:00 AM
The IEEE Education Partners program has both traditional universities and colleges as well
as for-profit corporations. Tell me what you think about the quality of education that each of
these types of education providers offers. If you took a course through an academic
institution, did you consider a for-profit corporation? And visa versa. If you took a course
through one of the for-profit corporations, did you consider a college or university?
'3.9.1 Bill
5/1/2008 12:49:36 PM
I'd have different expectations for the two. Having been to both and having taught both,
they each have merit. Setting expectations first, then looking for the cheapest version or
the most convenient might lead to disappointment. I knew what I was getting into when I
took a course, either by reputation or my own research.
'3.9.1.1
Bronis 5/2/2008 11:47:06 PM
I pretty much agree with Bill. Having word of mouth for training businesses certainly
helps (there are many useless courses available). I would expect more even quality from
university courses but would also be surprised if they were of the shorter nature (one
week or less) that I could commit to at this time.
'3.9.1.2
Donna 5/3/2008 9:10:15 AM
I agree that I have different expectations for both, though perhaps not the same
expectations. I have a bias, maybe not deserved that universities would emphasize more
of the theoretical, while "for-profits" would have more of a utilitarian focus. However,
this does not speak to the quality of the product of either provider set.
'3.9.2 Fred 5/1/2008 4:20:28 PM
Both types of providers provide high quality education. It is more the specific institution,
not the type that makes a different.
As for picking one over the other, it would be based on the course and availability, not the
profit motive that I would be looking at.
'3.9.3 Russell 5/1/2008 5:31:58 PM
That's a very broad question, (deliberately so?). I'm not convinced that a quality divide
can be made on the basis of the type of establishment. I'd expect good and bad in all
41
realms.
The type of establishment is perhaps less important to me than the quality of their product
and their reputation, as reported by previous attendees and/or peers.
'3.9.3.1
Robin - Moderator
5/1/2008 7:41:44 PM
Well, of course everything I do has a purpose! :)
Maybe it would help if I were a bit more transparent.
One of the decisions IEEE needs to make is which schools to pursue to include in the
program. With that in mind, it's helpful to know what members think about
online/traditional, traditional universities/for-profits and any other distinctions you care to
name.
So, ultimately, the question IEEE needs to answer is: Just what mix of education
providers is optimal for its members?
See? ;)
'3.9.3.1.1 Fred 5/1/2008 8:29:04 PM
As has been pointed out some online schools have questionable value. I would suggest
local schools rather than online school for degrees.
For individual courses I would suggest a combination of online, local and short sessions
(1-5 8 hour days that students would travel to).
'3.9.3.1.1.1
Ryan 5/1/2008 9:12:08 PM
I think Fred is right on here... for Degree programs stick to universities that have a
physical campus and physical classrooms and students. For certificate programs and
brief specific courses I don't think them being located entirely online would be as much
of an issue (assuming the offering site is reputable).
'3.9.3.1.1.1.1 Bronis 5/2/2008 11:49:36 PM
I took universities to mean recognizable high quality seats of higher learning, not
some of the ones that would be as likely to be primarily on-line oriented (and may
only have "university" in their names to create an impression of quality). Seeing a
school like Purdue on the site is a reasonable example of why I might trust the
universities more.
'3.9.3.1.2 Shreeram
5/2/2008 3:47:02 PM
In our area, graduates high higher degrees tend to go to smaller for-profit community
colleges to obtain some specialized training on some specific skills. Online training is
somehow still not that effective in my opinion. Those community colleges would provide
online and weekend courses anyways for flexibility.
'3.9.3.1.3 David 5/2/2008 8:16:46 PM
It seems like there would be plenty of accredited universities and colleges throughout
the country that would want to be associated with IEEE. The traditional or on-line
question is not really pertinent because so many universities are offering online courses.
I would question why the for-profit institutions would be necessary.
'3.9.3.1.4 Tahir
5/3/2008 8:39:19 AM
42
Will you consider adding good schools in Asia? I think apart from adding more top
schools from the US (Big names), adding schools from different countries will be a good
idea.
'3.9.3.1.4.1
Bill
5/3/2008 9:58:05 AM
I agree. IEEE is an international organization, and the offering should reflect that. I'd
think that having access to teachers located in schools that you couldn't actually attend
in person would be a drawing card.
'3.9.4 Gorn 5/1/2008 7:31:13 PM
I agree that the type of establishment is less significant than their reputations and known
quality (from some reviews). Nonetheless, I have no experience taking courses from forprofit corparations.
'3.9.5 Ryan 5/1/2008 9:08:17 PM
I never considered for-profit corporations for my education. To be fair, I haven't
researched any for-profit organizations (nor was I aware they existed in substantial
numbers before now). I think that the purpose of an educational institution should be to
benefit the general public by increasing the knowledge of the citizen population. For the
Universities in Virginia at least, it seems to me that the non-profit state universities
provide a much better education since they compete with each other to get state funding,
national recognition, as well as students.
'3.9.6 Hesam 5/1/2008 10:01:13 PM
I say if the recognition problem (or perception problem) is resolved online courses can be
as attractive. Traditional univeristy degrees have better image nowadays.
'3.9.7 Ron
5/1/2008 10:18:26 PM
I would have to agree with some of the previous posts on this one. I don't think I would
automatically judge a provider by their status as traditional or for-profit. I've experienced
both, and I've had good and bad results with both. It's more a matter of who gives me
what I'm looking for. Sometimes I'm looking for an in-depth course of a specific topic. If
that's the case, I've found both traditional and for-profit providers that have given me
everything I paid for.
That being said, I think if I were pursuing a degree, I would be more wary of the for-profit
ones, if only for the fact that it's an attractive market for a company that wants to make a
lot of money without giving the student the real knowledge he or she needs. That's where
the research and third party recommendations would really influence my decision.
'3.9.8 thomas
5/2/2008 12:12:52 AM
i have not taken course from a for-profit corporation.
'3.9.9 Mike 5/2/2008 4:47:43 AM
This is similar to earlier opinions: I think that there are high quality “for profit” providers
and low quality also. Also, you don’t have a real feeling for the quality until you have spent
time working with the course materials. This is true with “not for profit” providers as well.
I find that “for profit” providers (companies in the business of providing training) tend to
provide more focused and abbreviated courses, and “not for profit” (Universities and
Colleges) tend to provide more depth and breadth in general. (But this is not always true.)
I tend to use “not for profit” because I want the depth and breadth.
43
I think that helping to provide both “for profit” and “not for profit” opportunities is a good
approach. However, I would prefer if IEEE would separate the web site into a section with
“for profit” links, and a section with “not for profit” links. Also, more “not for profit”
opportunities would be a good addition.
'3.9.10
Shreeram
5/2/2008 3:41:51 PM
It is hard to tell the difference, especially, when you do not have much experience in forprofit schools/corporations. It is hard to define the 'quality' as well. It needs a broader
survey, i believe.
From my personal perceptions, i would think that for-profit corporations could provide
better quality of learning experience (as they generally charge you more tuition and they
would perhaps need to justify the amount of money they charge).
'3.9.11
Ben
5/2/2008 4:19:53 PM
Profit status of the school was and is not a deciding factor for me when I decided to
continue my education. I have found out that my current university is for profit, and while
I could asume that a state/federal school is non-profit.
So far I have not seen any difference in the schools or even thought about profit status
until you possed the question.
'3.9.12
Tahir 5/2/2008 6:53:15 PM
I have never taken a course from a for profit institution. However, I think that the for
profit organizations are more focussed on the practical component of the material. The
academic institutions have more freedom to offer the courses because they dont need to
face the severe competition.
'3.9.13
Mohammed 5/2/2008 8:02:33 PM
Well being an academic person myself, I never thought about taking courses from a forprofit organization. I'm not sure how these would be different that universities but I guess
maybe they would be more practical as mentioned in one of the replies.
'3.9.14
David 5/2/2008 8:03:34 PM
Colleges and universities would inherently represent a more reputable source of
information. If I were to consider a significant education opportunity from a for-profit
corporation I would spend more time understanding the background of the instructor and
participants than the institution itself.
I count my college and post-grad education as much more significant than any seminar or
enrichment class that I ever took.
'3.10 Robin - Moderator
5/1/2008 12:15:00 AM
I want to quantify the responses of all the people participating in these interviews on
decision criteria. To take the short survey now—and it’s only about 3 questions—please go
to http://wedewergroup.com/ieeenonparticipants.htm
or by clicking on the link in the whiteboard above.
Please complete the survey and make sure you click “submit” at the bottom to register your
responses.
'3.10.1
Bill
5/1/2008 12:52:08 PM
44
Short survey! I'm not sure I helped very much.
'3.10.2
Fred 5/1/2008 4:28:07 PM
It is hard to answer the last two questions since the quality can vary greatly.
'3.10.3
Russell 5/1/2008 5:36:12 PM
Apparently I have to respond here before I can proceed. So, hello!
'3.10.3.1 Robin - Moderator
Oops. I will fix.
5/1/2008 7:42:26 PM
My bad.
'3.10.4
Gorn 5/1/2008 7:44:21 PM
I have not taken any class from for-profit. However, somehow, I feel classes from forprofit organizations will be more benefitcial to me.
'3.10.5
Bronis 5/2/2008 11:54:44 PM
The for-profit question is hard to answer. It is useful for IEEE to provide the links. BUT, it
must imply a significant effort on IEEE to vet the course and the provider. A reputable
short for-profit course can be very worthwhile. Alternatively, the quality could be very
useless. As several posters said to previous questions, recommendations count for alot
here.
'4.1
Robin - Moderator
5/1/2008 12:15:00 AM
Now that you know about the program, how likely are you to take a course through the
IEEE Education Partners Program? Why do you say that?
'4.1.4 Robin - Moderator
5/1/2008 7:44:17 PM
Okay, question in a different way.
Now that you've looked, are you tempted by any of the offerings?
Why or why not?
'4.1.4.1
Shreeram
5/2/2008 3:52:47 PM
I think the discussions in this forum itself would be an incentive for me to seriously
consider one of the IEPs for my future continuing education. I am afraid, however, that
there are no IEPs in my area (for in-class training). I am still skeptic with online training
methods.
'4.1.1 Bill
5/1/2008 12:57:14 PM
More likely than before, since I wasn't aware of the program. But it's just another item in
a big bag of tricks. I get emails every day with an offer to take a class. If one such
promotion interested me, I'd see if the IEEE program offered something similar. The
comparison would be improtant in making a decision.
'4.1.2 Fred 5/1/2008 4:29:46 PM
At this point in my career I don't know. If I were to look at taking a class it is one place I
would consider looking, instead of just looking at local institutions.
'4.1.3 Russell 5/1/2008 5:38:16 PM
Now that I've had my awareness raised to such offerings, much more likely. However,
45
that has to be qualified with the perpetual, "if I find the time".
'4.1.5 Gorn 5/1/2008 7:47:19 PM
Since I am finishing up school (attempting to get away from school work), I do not think I
will be taking classes through the program any time soon. However, in the future when I
have needs to, I will certainly consider the program.
'4.1.6 Ryan 5/1/2008 9:24:44 PM
Right now I am not that likely since I am in the middle of completing my undergrad
degree. When I graduate and am looking for specific courses or topic areas later on,
however, I will certainly include the IEEE Education Partners Program in my list of options.
I simply did not know that they existed prior to now.
'4.1.7 Hesam 5/1/2008 10:09:20 PM
I agree with bill, I didn't know IEEE was active in offering educational programs. So next
time when I want to take courses I will consider IEEE too. But IEEE has to put its brand's
weight on certificates too to increase program's reputation.
'4.1.8 Ron
5/1/2008 10:23:51 PM
I don't know that I'm more likely to take a course through this program, but I will
definitely look through the offerings when I'm looking for education. Since my life is a bit
busy with family and work, I tend to lean more towards online and/or virtual classes. Any
new possibilities in that format will keep me interested.
'4.1.9 thomas
5/2/2008 12:19:15 AM
more likely as it provides a broader base of possiblities than does attending a local
institution, assuming a course of suitable interest can be found and the time to take it is
available.
'4.1.10
Mike 5/2/2008 5:00:24 AM
I am more likely to explore the IEEE education partners course offerings now that I am
aware of them. I will compare these offerings to other local “for profit” and “not for profit”
opportunities that are available.
'4.1.11
Tahir 5/2/2008 7:04:02 PM
I am not quite sure at this point that I will be taking a course through Partners program in
near future. I am still continuing my degree at the university and dont expect to graduate
by the middle of next year. After that it depends what king of career path I will be taking>
If I choose to go to the industry then it will be more likely that I will take a course from
this program.
'4.1.12
Mohammed 5/2/2008 8:06:50 PM
I don't think it's highly likely. I would prefer not to take an online course as I prefer face0to-face interaction with the instructor.
Although, I have to say that if I need to take an online course for any reason the IEEE
program would be definitely a choice.
'4.1.13
David 5/2/2008 8:24:43 PM
I'm always up for learning something new that supports my career development or meets
a current need. Based on what I've learned by participating in this survey, the IEEE will be
a place I look, but I'm can't definitively say it will be a pivotal element of my decision.
Individual courses are so much different than degrees.
46
'4.1.14
Bronis 5/2/2008 11:55:37 PM
No. I don't have time and I am satisfied with my current mechanisms for enhancing my
training.
'4.1.15
Donna 5/3/2008 9:18:34 AM
I am more likely, since the site was a focal point of my time spent over the last days. I
will likely proceed to research short term, online courses, since I find that useful for
updating my skills.
'4.1.16
Ben
5/3/2008 4:23:11 PM
I currently have more than enough going on with my current degree program, however
post graduation I will review the IEEE site when I look for further education.
'4.1.17
Mohammed 5/3/2008 7:12:15 PM
If I can find a course that I want to take in a university near me (not listed in the IEEE
program) when I can have it in a classroom fashion I will do that.
If I have to take an online course, I guess I'll check the IEEE program first.
'4.2
Robin - Moderator
5/1/2008 12:15:00 AM
What would you change about the program that you think would make the program even
better and more attractive to more IEEE members?
This is one of those places that I’m interested in your reaction to what others have had to
say. Please read through their comments and let me know if you agree/disagree or have
other ideas.
'4.2.1 Bill
5/1/2008 1:02:45 PM
Change? I'd like to know more about a class before I sign up. I'd like to see a sample,
and that will mean different things to different provides and different courses. No matter,
as that tells me something, too.
'4.2.1.1
Russell 5/1/2008 5:43:28 PM
I like the idea of the sample. This would again be helpful in gaining an appreciation of
quality.
'4.2.1.2
Shreeram
5/2/2008 4:08:11 PM
It may be a good idea, but would any college/university tell you the details about the
class before you actually join the class?
'4.2.1.2.1 Bronis 5/2/2008 11:58:20 PM
Certainly. You can get syllabi for many in person university courses on-line these days
(perhaps unintentionally as they are there for students but I have found many through
Google searches).
'4.2.2 Fred 5/1/2008 4:34:33 PM
Instead of just offering a discount, maybe set up a searchable online catalog of
engineering (and related fields) courses available at accredited all institutions around the
world (along with a note of which ones include an IEEE discount).
'4.2.2 Bill
5/1/2008 1:02:46 PM
(Deleted)
Change? I'd like to know more about a class before I sign up. I'd like to see a sample,
and that will mean different things to different provides and different courses. No matter,
47
as that tells me something, too.
'4.2.2.1
Russell 5/1/2008 5:50:07 PM
Is this the kind of thing you mean? http://tryengineering.org/home.php
Have a look at the University Finder on the left hand side. Although this example seems
to be targeted at youths entering the profession, something similar for continuing
education would no doubt be useful.
'4.2.2.1.1 Fred 5/1/2008 8:18:00 PM
The problem with the university finder is that it just lists schools. What I proposed is a
search engine where you could type in "DSP algorithms" and include a few other
parameters and find schools that have a course in DSP algorithms that you might be
able to attend.
'4.2.2.1.1.1
Shreeram
This would indeed be useful.
5/2/2008 4:09:29 PM
'4.2.3 Russell 5/1/2008 5:41:41 PM
1) Some form of review system, to allow the reader to gain an appreciation of course
quality (or lack thereof) and pitfalls.
2) A broadening of borders to include courses from providers not located in Northern
America.
'4.2.3.1
Shreeram
5/2/2008 4:11:39 PM
Accreditation and review of the course offerings would be one of important factors to
consider by all means.
'4.2.4 Gorn 5/1/2008 7:52:22 PM
As I commented before, getting more big-name institutions in the program will certainly
increase attractions for more IEEE members.
And since we are doing these globally, online classes (traditional online class or "virtual"
online class) will be a significant factor in the program.
'4.2.5 Ryan 5/1/2008 9:29:32 PM
I would say get more big name universities that physically exist involved. From a students
perspective if you were to, say offer a discount for degree programs abroad outside North
America that would also be a big incentive.
'4.2.5.1
Shreeram
5/2/2008 4:17:34 PM
Agreed. As far as the online degrees and distance education, those big name universities
still do not have those provisions, and do not seem to be that interested in it either (they
are having hard time selecting from thousands of applicants for enrollment, and it does
not seem to of their priority at all).
'4.2.6 Hesam 5/1/2008 10:14:26 PM
I would ask IEEE educational services to
1)study each program carefully before endorsing it.
2)I'd put IEEE brand on the certificates.
3)I'd add Business management programs specially tailored for EE grads
4)I'd redesign Education webpage make all information more organized (not like a dump of
48
data)
5)I'd actively engage in promoting programs in conferences
'4.2.6.1
Shreeram
Good points!
5/2/2008 4:18:38 PM
'4.2.6.1.1 Bronis 5/2/2008 11:59:35 PM
Agreed.
'4.2.6.2
Ben
5/3/2008 4:28:38 PM
I agree completey
'4.2.7 Ron
5/1/2008 10:26:05 PM
Better advertising to members I think would help, both from the perspective of letting
members know what's available as well as possibly attracting more providers to participate
if they know they have a large potential market.
'4.2.8 thomas
5/2/2008 12:21:53 AM
how can i agree or disagree if i have to respond before being able to see the other ideas.
'4.2.8.1
Robin - Moderator
5/2/2008 8:55:01 AM
The idea is to post your response and then see if you agree or disagree with what others
have had to say. You can see their responses then.
'4.2.9 thomas
5/2/2008 12:30:45 AM
The program seems to continue to highlight the 10% discount, this is a minor point, a 10%
discount is not going to have much influence in my decision. The idea of a sample is very
good, i don't have the time to sign up for a class only to find it was not what was
expected. if i were interested in a degree then the standard course structure would make
sense, but how about more short courses covering new technologies.
'4.2.9.1
Tahir 5/2/2008 7:09:13 PM
I agree with your comments of 10% discount. I think that IEEE should emphasize and
highlight quality more than the 10% discount.
'4.2.10
Mike 5/2/2008 5:06:32 AM
I would like to see IEEE provide actually more opportunities. I would be good to have the
website divided into “for profit” and “not for profit” and then further divided into Buisness,
Law, and various fields of engineering. This organization would make the information less
overwhelming.
'4.2.10.1 Shreeram
5/2/2008 4:20:05 PM
this would also be one of the good additions.
'4.2.11
Shreeram
5/2/2008 4:05:57 PM
1. IEEE needs to broaden its horizon in terms of including more educational partners. As
an international organization, it needs to include 'A grade' colleges/Universities from
around the globe.
2. More discount for IEEE members. Lets say, starting with 10%, increase that by 5%-10%
to specific IEEE society members (according to the courses that are somehow related to
that particular society).
49
'4.2.12
Tahir 5/2/2008 7:07:08 PM
I would like to add courses in different languages to make this program more accessible to
IEEE members in different countries.
'4.2.13
David 5/2/2008 8:31:14 PM
Prominence and awareness would help. Distinguishing academic services is a very difficult
venue in which to play. IEEE should have some of the best opportunities to meet the
needs of engineers relative to content, timing and delivery methods.
'4.2.14
Bronis 5/2/2008 11:57:01 PM
An improved web site organization would help. Clearer identification of course content is
also needed.
'4.2.15
Donna 5/3/2008 10:06:08 AM
As noted earlier, I think an index of courses by subject matter, and by type, (classroom,
on-line, degree program, ...) would be helpful.
'4.2.16
Ben
5/3/2008 4:28:02 PM
Advertisment and testimonalias, and adding credability.
You want people to use this service, the arguements you have current is 10% off and IEEE
points to these other schools. This currently is like a coupon on the back of my grocery
reciept.
Improve the perception and reputation of this program
'4.2.17
Mohammed 5/3/2008 7:14:48 PM
I see the program is focused on online course only, would be much better if other types of
programs are included as well.
Of course adding more highly reputed universities to the program is desirable.
'4.3
Robin - Moderator
5/1/2008 12:15:00 AM
Those are all the questions for today. Thanks again for logging on. See you online
tomorrow!
Robin
'5.1
Robin - Moderator
5/2/2008 12:15:00 AM
Welcome back! Today we’ll be talking about how the IEEE Education Partners Program can
be improved. I also want to get your ideas on marketing the program.
IEEE is working to improve the IEEE Education Partners website. Again, if you need to,
please take a few moments to re-familiarize yourself with the website prior to moving to the
next question. You can view the website at:
http://www.ieee.org/web/education/partners/eduPartners.html
or by clicking on the link in the whiteboard above.
'5.1.1 Bill
5/2/2008 9:50:29 AM
Robin,
I answered every question, but some of my responses are not there any more. Wonder
what happened?
Bill
50
'5.1.1.1
Robin - Moderator
5/2/2008 10:54:04 AM
That's odd. I see you went back and answered again. Thanks for doing that.
I'll ask tech support about it.
'5.2
Robin - Moderator
5/2/2008 12:15:00 AM
Currently, the website is designed as a portal with different entrance points to details about
the programs offered by each education provider.
First, please remind me here if you had visited the site prior to participating in this group.
When you first investigated the IEEE Education Partners Program, how many of the
education providers’ websites did you investigate? One? Two? All of them?
How did you decide which ones to look at further?
'5.2.1 Bill
5/2/2008 9:53:09 AM
No. I'd not been there before. When prompted, I visited 2. One a university and one
company. I drilled down a step or two into each. I chose those because they likely
offered something that I knew about and could evaluate the offering.
'5.2.2 Fred 5/2/2008 1:40:36 PM
I never visited the website before this group started.
I visited 3 websites, picking 2 I recognized the name of and 1 other picked at random.
'5.2.3 Hesam 5/2/2008 3:32:23 PM
I hadn't visited the site before this. I glanced over all the programs and I investigated on
purdue program. It was a better known name for me.
'5.2.4 Ron
5/2/2008 4:10:22 PM
I had not visited the site prior to this group.
I checked out three providor sites.
I just picked three that sounded like they might offer something interesting. No name
recognition involved or anything like that.
'5.2.5 Shreeram
5/2/2008 4:25:53 PM
I had visited to the IEPP site, but not so carefully. I guess, If you are not actively seeking
information on that topic, you would not pay too much attention.
when visited them, I investigated a couple of them that are of interest to me. e.g. Stevens
Institute of Technology for 'An Online MBA in Technology Management", and Polytechnic
University for 'Technology Management & Telecommunications'.
Decision based on the reputation of those universities and close match with the program
that i am seeking information for.
'5.2.6 Russell 5/2/2008 4:55:12 PM
I hadn't visited the site before being prompted. I initially glanced over the list before
clicking on a couple at random.
51
'5.2.7 Gorn 5/2/2008 5:39:32 PM
I have visited the program website but never investigated any participating institutions
before this focus group. When I first investigated the institutions, I visited three of them.
Two of them I have heard their names before; and another one is just a randome pick.
'5.2.8 Tahir 5/2/2008 7:13:52 PM
I have visited the website before but didnt read it. This time I read the information about
the different courses. I visited the websites of 4 education providers and tried to find
courses according to my interest and how much is the cost of those courses.I visited the
websites of those providers with whom I was already gfamiliar with.
'5.2.9 Ryan 5/2/2008 7:49:29 PM
I had not visited the site prior to this group either. I clicked on Drexel's link since I have
heard of them before, as well as Capitol College. I think it would be easier to access if the
information was arranged arranged by course, and clicking on a course would show which
educational providers offered that course.
'5.2.10
thomas
5/2/2008 11:04:08 PM
i had not visited the site before participating in this group.
I looked a 3 or 4 sites when i first investigated the program. they were chosen mostly at
random only going as far as getting a basic idea of what was being offered.
'5.2.11
Mike 5/2/2008 11:26:47 PM
I visited three provider web sites: RTI, Purdue and GE, these were just the ones I felt
might offer courses that would interest me. Purdue is one provider that I looked more
closely, because their website is well organized and quickly leads you to the information
that you need.
'5.2.12
Bronis 5/3/2008 12:05:00 AM
I had not visited the site previously. I did not follow any of the provider links because I did
not find the short course (two or three word) descriptions enticing (I don't want to learn
about patent law; I know enough for my purposes already; nor do I want an MBA) or
explanatory in some other cases.
I find the portal approach to have little if any value added. If I am going to go through the
IEEE site then it needs to provide something more. Organization by topics would be a first
step. Ratings of courses by qualified independent engineers (perhaps paid by IEEE to take
the courses?) or at least ratings by previous customers like Amazon or other such sites.
'5.2.13
Donna 5/3/2008 10:27:03 AM
I initially decided to look at the 'IEEE Expert Now' section displayed on the navigation bar,
and reviewed the course catalog. The topic(s) 'Stuff you Don't Learn in Engineering
School' piqued my interest, but it was hard to find the details regarding the subscription
(i.e. Price, and if all modules were included in the price.) I also briefly visited two other
partners and will likely return for more detail at a later date.
'5.2.13.1 Donna 5/3/2008 10:33:49 AM
(Part 2:) I chose which of the two other partners to look at by scanning the offering for
university providers, and visiting those that were advertised as online and short.
'5.2.14
Ben
5/3/2008 4:31:18 PM
I had not looked at it prior to this formum.
I looked at one and found it not related to the search critea.
52
I did not look further.
'5.2.15
Mohammed 5/3/2008 7:16:20 PM
I only about visited two of them. Not based on a criterion, just picked one university and
one organization.
'5.3
Robin - Moderator
5/2/2008 12:15:00 AM
What suggestions can you give to improve how the IEEE Education Partners Program
website is organized?
This is another area where I’m particularly interested in how you react to what others have
had to say. Please take a few moments now (or later if you are among the first to respond)
to agree or disagree and comment on what the other focus group participants have had to
say.
'5.3.1 Bill
5/2/2008 9:58:22 AM
People create businesses critiqueing websites. In my opinion, IEEE maintains some of the
worst websites in the industry.
This website was obviously not done by te usual IEEE web folks. One click provides plenty
of relevant information, and one more click gets you to the place you want to be. After
that, you are at the mercy of the offerer.
'5.3.1.1
Hesam 5/2/2008 3:46:24 PM
Amen man! You can say that again. IEEE website's design has damaged its image a lottt.
Education part seems like somebody just dumped some load of data on the page. It gives
the impression that IEEE guy don't care about their online face. Their search tools are
worst. specially in IEEExplore. Programs should be categorized by majors (Electronics,
Communication, Control, ... , Business Management, ..) by universities, etc.
'5.3.1.1.1 Shreeram
Could not agree more.
5/2/2008 4:32:31 PM
'5.3.1.1.1.1
Russell 5/2/2008 5:15:29 PM
I'd agree with this general comment too. I've previously cited my lack of knowledge
about the IEEE's services as being due to my lack of time. Another view could be that
the Web site designs have not allowed me to discovering useful information quickly.
'5.3.1.1.1.1.1 Gorn
I agree.
5/2/2008 5:43:11 PM
'5.3.2 Fred 5/2/2008 2:12:49 PM
If the idea is to just list the partners it looks fine. The search function isn't all that useful
as it is (besides the huge RIT). If IEEE wants a search function it should search the courses
available, not just what fields are available.
'5.3.2.1
Shreeram
5/2/2008 4:34:58 PM
On that note, why anyone would want to display the full page size image on the search
result (e.g. that of RIT)? IS the logo that important? Perhaps the website designer is not
aware of how to handle the images properly for website display.
'5.3.3 Ron
5/2/2008 4:20:16 PM
I agree that the information available on the IEEE site seems to be lacking. I can
understand that trying to duplicate information from the provider's site regarding course
53
content and availability would be more work, but I think it would make it easier for
members to search for a class on a particular topic of interest. I think if a certain amount
of info were available directly on IEEE's site, it might improve the appeal of the Partners
Program.
'5.3.3.1
Russell 5/2/2008 5:18:20 PM
I'd agree with this too.
'5.3.3.2
Tahir 5/2/2008 7:21:02 PM
I agree because if the information is handy on the IEEE website it will create more
interest and the visitors are more likely to visit the Parteners websites too.
'5.3.4 Shreeram
5/2/2008 4:31:53 PM
The website could not be more unattractive, to be honest. IEPP logo on the left hand side
of the page is just 'hideous' (pardon me for the word here)...low resolution, and just not
professional looking.
Top of the page starts with 10% discount thing. Start with a short intro on what it is;
arrange the other links accordingly in a more professional manner.
'5.3.4.1
Russell 5/2/2008 5:22:14 PM
I hadn't noticed this previously (see my comment about having a high tolerance to low
quality sites!). But now I look again, that's really bad. In fact, most of the graphics look
like they've been through a bit-grinder.
Now that my attention has been drawn to it, this certainly does make the site look very
amateurish. I seriously hope that the IEEE didn't pay top dollar for that!
'5.3.5 Russell 5/2/2008 5:13:53 PM
I should prefix whatever I say by nothing that I use a lot of open-source software tools.
The Web sites for such tools often tend to be very poor, thus my expectations were
probably artificially low.
I also habitually use the quick-search feature of Firefox to quickly find terms on pages.
That meant that when I searched for a few test topics, I resolved possible providers very
quickly. In all, I don't think my impression of the Site was as bad as some of the other
responders.
However, I will note that the first time I visited the site I did so without a particular topic
in mind... and I ran out of time before finding anything of particular interest or gaining a
good sense of the organization of the site.
Regardless of my low expectations, I can still appreciate what the others are saying about
poor organization. The site does seem to be somewhat of a unplanned splurge. I'd
certainly like to see more consistency in the presentation, both between the content of the
advertising slots and the individual Web sites of each provider.
I'd also agree with some of the other posters, in that the search facility could be much
refined.
'5.3.6 Tahir 5/2/2008 7:18:36 PM
I dont find the website of this program very impressive. In my opinion, it is not a good
website to attract members to take courses. It should be more professionally done with
54
detailed information about each course. I also suggest to arrange the website in a way
where it is possible to browse it in different ways such as topic wise, institution wise etc.
'5.3.6.1
thomas
5/2/2008 11:08:20 PM
i agree, the site needs work.
'5.3.7 thomas
5/2/2008 11:11:15 PM
There are a number of vendor sites that i have to use in the course of my job that are just
plain awful to use. This site is not the worst i have seen but since i don't have to use the
site, i would quickly move on to another website rather than try use this one all things
considered.
'5.3.8 Mike 5/2/2008 11:47:39 PM
Here is the common idea that I seen in some of the other responses: There is a lot of
variation in the quality of the provider web sites. Once IEEE directs you to the provider,
you start the feel this variation.
I also think certain providers just don’t have offerings that you may be interested in. It will
be big improvement if the IEEE website can help the user to determine this earlier. This
will help the user screen the providers.
It would be good to have the provider websites divided into “for profit” and “not for profit”
and then further divided into Business, Law, and various other fields of study. This
organization would make the information less overwhelming.
Also, this will help the user more quickly determine which providers are going to be
interesting to him.
'5.3.8.1
Donna 5/3/2008 10:53:14 AM
I'm not sure the 'for profit' and 'non-profit' designation are a good distinction. I prefer
the categories Academic and Corporate that are in use.
Having said that I completely agree that a different organizational method is imperative.
For example, under the Academic category I'd like to see subheading for degree
programs (Grad/Undergrad), Certificate programs, CEU, Seminars, Short courses, etc.,
with individual providers listed under each heading. (The thumbnails could be shown at
the lower level.
Also, a subject index would be a big improvement. A good search engine is also a
requirement, but being able to browse the a Subject index, and drill down by subject
categories would be of significant benefit.
To summarize, I'd like to see indexes by offering type, by subject, and by provider,
rather than just by provider.
'5.3.9 Bronis 5/3/2008 12:08:27 AM
I have said in several other places that the web site is organized backwards. I want to
know WHAT is offered. Once I find a subject of interest, then I want to select WHICH
provider.
'5.3.9.1
Ryan 5/3/2008 6:47:17 PM
Exactly I agree with Bronis.
55
'5.3.10
Ben
5/3/2008 4:35:02 PM
I have to agree with many of the post, the site is handled about the way I made a site
back many years ago. BADLY.
I am not a web designer and I tend to design things that require straight lines like
schematics.
I do not know what makes a good site I only can tell you this is bad.
'5.3.11
Mohammed 5/3/2008 7:22:50 PM
I agree with most of the replies that the site looks bad.
Personally, I tried the search engine and chose "Computational Intelligence" and it gave
me all the providers that offer courses related to this field. This is highly undesirable, this
adds the burden of me visiting all these sites (more than 6) and looking for the courses
myself.
I think the search result should at least give me the providers as well as the courses they
provide for this area of interest that could help me maybe to narrow my visits.
'5.4
Robin - Moderator
5/2/2008 12:15:00 AM
One of the features that is planned or the new website is a search function that will allow
you to find the types of courses that you want. What are some of the search fields you
would find most helpful—the ones that would help you narrow your search to just the kinds
of classes that you are interested in taking?
'5.4.1 Bill
5/2/2008 10:04:01 AM
EngineeringElectric Power
Energy
Renewable Energy
Those are well-established topics and certainly short course material. More specialized
topics like Power Quality are only a week long. Those would be interesting offerings as an
offline short course. And I'd like to see cutting edge stuff from the founders of the
technology, like powerline communications, fiber optics, other short courses.
'5.4.2 Fred 5/2/2008 2:43:39 PM
By types of courses I am assuming your mean online, weekly (meaning 1-2 times a week
for a few hours at a time, i.e. a typical college course), short course (could be 2-40 hours
of instruction time that goes for up to 8 hours a day), local (useful for either of the
previous 2, requires entering a zip code or other similar location for outside the US and a
travel distance.)
Language of instruction would also be useful.
When the classes start would be useful (I see this as being within 1 month, 1-3 months in
the future, 4-6 months, more than 6 months.)
As for the specific subject matters, this could be either a drop down menu, or a fill-in field.
'5.4.2.1
Russell 5/2/2008 5:40:15 PM
Good point about language!
'5.4.3 Hesam 5/2/2008 3:55:34 PM
Electronics {Analog Design
56
{RF Design
{Digital Design
Communications
Control
Power
Business Management
'5.4.4 Ron
5/2/2008 4:27:46 PM
The most useful search fields for me would be something like:
-subject or category of class
-method of presentation (in-person, live online, etc.)
-location (where applicable)
-length of class
-cost
'5.4.4.1
Donna 5/3/2008 10:59:50 AM
Excellent suggestions.
I'd separate the first bullet into two items, subject ~and~ category of class, where
category would be the program type, as I described in section 5.3.
I'd also like the opportunity to browse, as well as search.
'5.4.4.2
I agree
Ben
5/3/2008 4:40:06 PM
'5.4.4.3
Mohammed 5/3/2008 7:25:42 PM
very good suggestion for search criteria
'5.4.5 Shreeram
5/2/2008 4:37:34 PM
search should incorporate the location field as well.
Some of the suggested fields:
1. IT management
2. Executive MBA
3. Project management
4. Business accounting for engineers
'5.4.6 Russell 5/2/2008 5:36:11 PM
I think there is some confusion here. Most of the group has provided a list of subject
categories. Using categories is not dissimilar to the approach of the existing search tool,
which we've all expressed dissatisfaction with.
Only Ron so far has answered by suggesting search "fields", which is what we were asked
for. I happen to agree with Ron's suggestions. However, I'd suggest that cost should be a
min/max field. I'd also add a dates field (also min/max), and an "other search terms"
field. For matching on this latter field, each course provider could supply their own
relevant terms.
'5.4.7 Gorn 5/2/2008 5:55:03 PM
Besides Ron's suggestion, I would add
-time schedule for class
-institution
57
-instructor name (if applicable) and credentials?
-language
-if online, what kind of internet connection is required
'5.4.8 Tahir 5/2/2008 7:27:04 PM
-Category such as Power, Business, IT
-Type such as interactive or non interactive
-Cost
-Schedule
-Duration
'5.4.9 thomas
5/2/2008 11:14:42 PM
provide multiple options, quick single click buttons, a parametric like search would be nice
'5.4.10
Mike 5/3/2008 12:00:21 AM
I would like to be able to search on the following items:
1. Search by course category (Buisness, Engineering, Manufacturing)
2. A String in the course Title (such as Power or Magnetic)
3. Search by a string in the course description (Analog Circuit) for instance.
4. Limit the search to Online or Live training
5. Limit the search by course price
6. Limit the search to “not for Profit” or “for profit” providers only.
7. Limit the search by course duration (20 hours or less for instance)
'5.4.10.1 Ben
5/3/2008 4:40:44 PM
I agree with all but 6, but other may need it
'5.4.11
Bronis 5/3/2008 12:12:26 AM
It's hard to say what fields would be useful. What would help is drop down menus with
suggested field values. A hierarchical organization of topics would probably help. Basically
a wizard interface (select highest level topic: law, computer science, electrical engineering,
computer engineering, business, management, whatever; given that select next level until
I am looking at something like parallel programming memory models).
'5.4.11.1 Bill
5/3/2008 8:54:30 AM
It sounds like you have a plan - a number of drop-down menus on one page, answer as
many as you need to for narrowing the selectrion. just electrical engineering or electrical
engineering>power>distribution automation.
I've seen online catalogs do that.
'5.4.12
Ryan 5/3/2008 6:52:31 PM
Subject Area
Online or Classroom
Date range (you select a start and/or end date and return classes within those time
parameters)
Depending on how many courses you index you could also maybe add a fourth field for a
specific topic in a subject area. Unless you plan on offering thousands upon thousands of
courses, I would recommend trying to keep the number of search fields to three or four.
'6.1
Robin - Moderator
5/2/2008 12:15:00 AM
One of the challenges with marketing the IEEE Education Partners program is the sheer
volume of information that members receive, both from IEEE, other organizations,
58
businesses and anyone else with a message or product.
Where would you EXPECT to find information about the IEEE Education Partners Program?
Where would you look?
Since you are now familiar with the program, what ideas do you have for the BEST way to
break through the “clutter” and get the message out that this program is available to IEEE
members?
'6.1.1 Bill
5/2/2008 10:10:40 AM
That's a challenge, all right. Emails are the most efficient and least cost, with embedded
links. But I gat a hundred a day. The IEEE website is the logical place to put the
entrance, and we are used to hunting there for whatever we need. It'll get lost there, but
we are used to that. Clearly, having a separate URL is necessary. Once found, that
becomes a Bookmark or a Favorite.
'6.1.2 Fred 5/2/2008 2:46:22 PM
Bill has some good ideas, I would suggest also a ad in Spectrum.
'6.1.2.1
Bronis 5/3/2008 12:16:31 AM
Would you reallyu respond to ads? Wouldn't you want something that first convinced you
that you would learn something? Like an article that serves as the introduction to the
course?
'6.1.2.1.1 Fred 5/3/2008 12:20:25 AM
Now that you mention it an article would be a good thing. The idea of the ad isn't to
convince me to use IEPP, but rather to inform me that it exists.
'6.1.2.1.1.1
Bronis 5/3/2008 12:23:22 AM
Fair enough. Hard to say how much the first exposure is worth.
'6.1.3 Ron
5/2/2008 4:32:42 PM
The IEEE website is probably the first place I would expect to find info on the program. As
already mentioned, I'm pretty much resigned to working hard to find things on the site.
IEEE publications would be the next place that would make sense to me.
Strictly from an advertising perspective, having a more prominent presence on the
participating provider's site wouldn't be a bad idea, either. That's probably not a place I
would expect to find it, but it would definitely grab my attention if I saw it.
'6.1.4 Shreeram
5/2/2008 4:46:21 PM
well...anything that is associated with IEEE, the first point fo my search would be
www.ieee.org.
Marketing is always a difficult topic for me. I would think, including the URLs of IEPP page
in mailing correspondences (whether it is e-mail or not) could be one ways of letting IEEE
members know about it. e.g. include those URLs in a footnote or something like that.
'6.1.4.1
Shreeram
5/2/2008 4:47:17 PM
As Ron said, IEEE publications would be another place where it could be advertised.
'6.1.5 Russell 5/2/2008 5:47:17 PM
The previous suggestions all seem sensible. The only additional point I'd make would be in
59
trying to address the ranking of the IEEE Education services on Web search engines.
'6.1.6 Gorn 5/2/2008 5:58:35 PM
Would it be possible to advertise on IEEE Conferences and Workshops? There are usually
many people going there and they will learn about it.
'6.1.6.1
Bronis 5/3/2008 12:15:22 AM
Personally, I ignore most of the advertising at conferences -- too little signal to noise...
'6.1.7 thomas
5/2/2008 11:19:50 PM
I think most of my thoughts have already been expressed, i tend to spend more time
looking through Sprectrum than the web site so a good print ad works for me.
'6.1.8 Mike 5/3/2008 12:14:07 AM
I don’t have much to add to all of the previous suggestions. I first discovered the
IEEE/Xplore website (ieeexplore.ieee.org) from a one page advertisement that caught my
eye in the SCCS News Magazine.
Email adds can be effective also. Paper mail is not so powerful. (You are stacked in there
with a lot of other advertisements.)
'6.1.9 Bronis 5/3/2008 12:14:45 AM
I would expect to find the information in "What's New IEEE" newsletters. However, the
links would have to be somewhat insidious. A simple link to the site would be ignored (at
least after the first time following it). Instead, an interesting piece related to the topic of
the course and a link to the course registration might work...
'6.1.10
Tahir 5/3/2008 7:49:10 AM
IEEE website is the best place. Information can also be addded about this program in the
new members information package and the registration renewal letters. IEEE publications
which are sent to all members such as Spectrum, Institute are also very good to advertise
it. I feel emails will not be very effective because we usually get a lot of such emails and
tend to overlook them.
'6.1.10.1 Donna 5/3/2008 11:05:36 AM
Point taken, we all get lots of email and tend to overlook them, but I believe most of us
answered an email inviting us to this forum.
Obviously a link on ieee.org is important, but I'm not sure any of the other channels
mentioned by prior posters should be discounted.
'6.1.10.2 Ben
5/3/2008 4:45:24 PM
Yes the Website and the new member info, also get the information out the student
chapters and section leaders.
If this information was availble to me when I started my current degree program I would
more likly incorperate into my planned studies and thusly have time and more to attend
'6.1.10.2.1
Ben
5/3/2008 4:47:57 PM
Also create a sign up search so that when the class I am interested in going to comes up
I can be notified. Reminders are key
'6.1.10.2.1.1
Fred 5/4/2008 12:05:49 AM
Just be sure that you only send emails that for the class/type of class signed up for,
60
not every time a new class is added to the list.
'6.1.11
Hesam 5/3/2008 5:37:46 PM
1)Spectrum Magazine would be one good place to market. I always check the
advertisements at the end of spectrum (usually faculty positions and educational programs
can be found there).
2)Big color posters to target groups in universities. like in Analog/RF there are a handful of
groups in US (probably less than 50) so one can send high quality attention-grabbing
posters to these groups. Many grad students who want to attend career-boosting shortcourses look for those posters.
'6.1.12
Ryan 5/3/2008 6:56:59 PM
For certain I would expect to find information about the IEEE EPP on the IEEE website and
in IEEE publications (someone mentioned maybe an article in Spectrum?). An ad
campaign in these publications would probably also work, at least to raise awareness of
the program. Personally I always have thought that the best way to advertise is by word
of mouth. In this case once IEEE professionals go through the program they will talk
about it with their peers (especially if they have a good experience).
'6.1.13
Mohammed 5/3/2008 7:27:13 PM
One of the ways is to have brochures put on advertising boards of the different
departments of interest across universities.
'6.2
Robin - Moderator
5/2/2008 12:15:00 AM
Think back to the last business-related marketing message that really got your attention.
Perhaps it was something that you weren’t even particularly interested in, but for some
reason it stood out and made you look or read to find out more.
What was the product or message? What made it stand out and command your attention?
Can IEEE use any of the ideas you learned from this to market the IEEE Education Partners
Program?
'6.2.1 Bill
5/2/2008 10:22:29 AM
That's a TV commercial. Direct mail doesn't work; I do read the ads in the Spectrum and
other IEEE missives, but can't recall one in particular.
Meatloaf did an AT&T commercial for the Go phone. I looked at the long version on the
internet and passed that around. Showed how hard they worked for a Superbowl-class
commercial and how bad they butchered it to make it fit a 30-second spot. No, I don't
think that would work for the subject at hand. And no, I didn't go buy a Go phone, either.
However, that experience recalls answers to an earlier question. Google works well and
we are accustomed to getting worthwhile answers from Google. Purchasing targeted ad
space on Google might be worth it.
'6.2.2 Fred 5/2/2008 2:48:35 PM
I can't think of any right now. I do read the ads in Spectrum, some emails, Google ads.
'6.2.3 Ron
5/2/2008 4:41:19 PM
The ones that stick in my mind the most are typically magazine ads in the computer trade
magazines that I read. The humorous ones are most likely to catch my attention. Of
course, those are usually the ones advertising the products that I have no need for.
Regarding targeted ads on Google, I tend to shy away from most of those ads just because
I do computer security for a living, and I've seen too many really ugly things happen with
61
those ads (even from reputable companies). I realize they're a cheap way to reach a
targeted group, but I think the reputation for search engine ads is going downhill, at least
in my opinion.
'6.2.4 Shreeram
5/2/2008 4:54:47 PM
I avoid watching TV commercials as far possible....whenever a commercial comes, i change
the channel..by the time i go around flip some more channels and come back to the
channel i am watching, it seems that the program is just coming....!!!
However, I have liked all the ad campaigns that Mac is launching against PC. I just like
almost all of them very much (may be partly because of the characters they have used in
those commercials).
'6.2.5 Gorn 5/2/2008 6:01:35 PM
I use Google a lot. So Google Ads or any web ads would be the one. TV commercials are
great too. How about the radio?
'6.2.6 Russell 5/2/2008 6:10:16 PM
It would have to be the adverts for Mac that mock Microsoft. I generally find TV adverts
nauseating, preferring to flip the sound off. But the MAC adverts give me a chuckle.
If there's a lesson at all that I can pass on, then it's that I'm not in the least interested in
listening to, watching or reading brainless drivel, and especially so when it provides no
value.
For the most part, suffering advertising has become a tedious facet of life. I can't even
pump gas without the pump itself insisting on offering me car-washes and candy... it
drives me nuts, just give me the gas!!!! I find that I positively avoid being engaged by
advertising. My local corner store fitted TV's for advertising next to the register... I
stopped going there.
However, the Mac adverts at least give me value by giving me an albeit short-lived laugh.
'6.2.6.1
Robin - Moderator
5/3/2008 8:23:08 AM
Do you think humor would work in trying to inform IEEE members about the program? I
wonder how people would think that fits with the subject matter--or with IEEE?
'6.2.6.1.1 Bill
5/3/2008 9:03:40 AM
You are right. It wouldn't fit the stodgy impression of IEEE but it would be memorable.
There are lots of good cpmmercials that fail because people remember the commercial,
bit not the product or service offered.
But for print or electronic ads, a comic-character ad campaign might catch on. We all
look at a Dilbert comic whenever we see one. It would be hard to do that, though. The
message would have to be subtle.
'6.2.6.1.2 Russell 5/3/2008 9:27:24 AM
It doesn't have to be humor, that was only an example. Value comes in many forms.
Clearly, to a person who seeks education, then the value of reading advertising on
education is obvious. However, for a more casual reader, who perhaps needs continuing
education but isn't really focused on it, then the value is less obvious. Humor is one
example that has overcome my lack of interest in the past. Another example might be
in subtly wrapping the information in an interesting article, as suggested in a post
62
above. I'm sure there's many other ways of overcoming advert-aversion.
'6.2.6.1.2.1
Hesam 5/3/2008 5:49:26 PM
I agree with Russel. Free Added Value. Even if one knows there is going to be
advertisement (hidden or overt) in the context, value (or perception of value) may
overcome the ad-aversion. Value can come in the form of an interesting article, a
funny viral video, a free flash memory, free registration for some conference :) or
something of that sort.
'6.2.6.1.3 Tahir 5/3/2008 6:03:57 PM
I will vote against humor, it does not fit well with the subject or IEEE.
'6.2.6.1.4 Ryan 5/3/2008 8:03:04 PM
I don't think humor is necessary.
'6.2.6.1.4.1
Fred 5/4/2008 12:07:36 AM
I agree, humor for the sake of humor isn't the way to go.
'6.2.7 thomas
5/2/2008 11:37:36 PM
i do have to agree with the Mac ads those do catch my attention, however i rarely take
televsion ads seriously mostly they are just annoying. But seriously i don't think the
audience for the IEEE program is large enough to warrant a TV or radio spot. Put together
an informative ad on the website, run a catch print ad in spectrum with the web link and i
will probably check it out. But tell me enough in the print ad that it will draw me in. only
stating there a 10% discount without any substance will not do it.
'6.2.8 Bronis 5/3/2008 12:19:32 AM
I suppose it would be the management course I mentioned earlier. World leaders teaching
about leadership. That grabs ones attention. Most courses don't have that kind of obvious
pull. From me, the lesson is that direct ads are unlikely to work. I ignore most of them
("Right into the recycle bin, thank you. Boy, I wish they wouldn't kill trees for this.").
'6.2.9 Mike 5/3/2008 12:25:35 AM
Actually, the IEEE/Xplore advertisement in SSCS news caught my eye. It was just a picture
of a toy rocket with a caption that said “Get information faster” (or something like that).
The suggestion is that you are going to be saving time by using this service.
I think that a clever picture is always good for catching your attention.
'6.2.10
Tahir 5/3/2008 7:57:34 AM
Some TV commercials are very creative and I watch them and then want to know more
about their products. But tv commercials does not suite for this program because this is
about a particular community of IEEE members. Also commercials will also be very
expensive. But if the IEEE partners in this program can share the cost to advertise these
through adds in the subway trains with a line mentioning about 10% discount, it might
work in certain big cities. I travel in subway to go to school in Toronto and I always read
the adds of universities. Concordia university, Ryerson and Queens are advertising this
way and I find it very effective.
'6.2.11
Donna 5/3/2008 11:10:36 AM
Um, the message "we would like to offer you a $100 incentive" got my attention, although
I'm not sure that is a useful response to the question. I think the main marketing
message for the Partners program is Presentation Is Important.
63
'6.2.11.1 Robin - Moderator
5/3/2008 8:33:11 PM
That's funny. I would pay attention too! Probably not practical, as you say. :)
'6.2.12
Ben
5/3/2008 4:47:07 PM
This one is easy, the Chair of the section I am in suggested I attend and attached a flier.
So I went.
IEEE is an impersonal corparation, it is not a good friend giving a recomendation.
Change this program into the good friend and it will be usefull.
'6.2.13
Ryan 5/3/2008 8:06:18 PM
I saw an advertisement for alpacas. The goal of the commercial was to convince more
people to become alpaca farmers. I think the only reason I went to the alpaca website
was because I had never heard of an alpaca before. Applying that to the IEEE EPP
advertisements, perhaps you could include descriptions of courses that you would find no
where else. If you use that to hook the reader into the advertisement then they will read
further and find that the EPP offers all kinds of courses.
'6.2.13.1 Robin - Moderator
5/3/2008 8:34:05 PM
You saw a commercial about alpaca farmers and actually visited the website?!??! Must
have been a great commercial! I wish I watched television sometimes. Maybe on
youtube.
'6.3
Robin - Moderator
5/2/2008 12:15:00 AM
IEEE is considering a marketing program that uses a “tag line” or “slogan” to promote the
IEEE Education Partners Program. The line is:
“The Power of 10.”
When you first read “The Power of 10,” what did you think it was about?
'6.3.1 Fred 5/2/2008 2:50:14 PM
A large (undefined) number. Something big.
'6.3.2 Ron
5/2/2008 4:50:01 PM
10 partners in the program?
10 fingers on my hands? (how do you know I don't have 11?)
Seriously, my best guess is that it refers to the 10% discount on the tuition for the class.
'6.3.3 Shreeram
5/2/2008 4:57:12 PM
Power of digital communication/learning.
'6.3.3.1
Shreeram
5/2/2008 4:58:19 PM
Could be 10% discount, which i do not think would be the power that is influential that
much.
'6.3.4 Gorn 5/2/2008 6:02:52 PM
Logarithmic scale, like a log-log or log-linear plots.
'6.3.5 Russell 5/2/2008 6:13:44 PM
A new lottery format.
'6.3.5.1
Robin - Moderator
5/3/2008 8:23:37 AM
64
Hah!
'6.3.5.1.1 Russell 5/3/2008 9:46:54 AM
Has the IEEE done their infringment checks on this tag line? See:
http://www.cbs.com/primetime/powerof10/
'6.3.5.1.1.1
Robin - Moderator
5/3/2008 10:47:58 AM
Interesting! I'll mention it to them, of course.
'6.3.6 thomas
5/2/2008 11:39:41 PM
lots of things but nothing that would get me excited about the education program,
especially if it is referring to the discount.
'6.3.7 Bronis 5/3/2008 12:21:58 AM
No idea. Not spurred to find out. Depending on where I saw it, I might think of increasing
processor counts in large scale systems. Still wouldn't get my attention (it sounds content
free).
'6.3.8 Mike 5/3/2008 12:28:51 AM
To me, this would suggest that maybe only ten different providers are involved in the
Educational Partners program.
'6.3.9 Tahir 5/3/2008 7:59:38 AM
I though it is about 10 big names in Electrical engineering education and profession.
'6.3.10
Bill
5/3/2008 9:07:07 AM
In the abstract, it's an exponect. Looking to see that the "P" is capitalized, I don't know
what it means. Taken in the context of this discussion, I still don't get it. 10 universities?
IEEE Region 10?
'6.3.11
Donna 5/3/2008 11:14:24 AM
Nothing related to IEEE or education. I had to dwell on the slogan and all that came to
mind was a football reference. And, I intensely dislike the sport of (US) football.
'6.3.12
Ben
5/3/2008 4:50:55 PM
My first thought would be a 'in' refernce to binary so would translate to power of 2, which
implies to me IEEE and some school.(where would I fit in)
If I were to take it as ten then I would want to know what the ten things are.
I just looked at the site again and did not find a reference to the tag line.
'6.3.13
Hesam 5/3/2008 5:52:10 PM
First thing that came to my mind was 10^ (Ten to the power ..) and then I noticed this
should be about 10% discount for IEEE members.
'6.3.14
Ryan 5/3/2008 8:07:03 PM
Knowing what I do from this discussion group, I immediately jump to the 10% discount
received on courses offered through the program.
'6.4
Robin - Moderator
5/2/2008 12:15:00 AM
In fact, the slogan refers to the 10% discount on education programs for IEEE members.
Obviously, the campaign relies on the discount as a major selling point.
What do you think of the focus on the discount?
65
For you, is there a better or more compelling selling point for the program?
What do you think of what others have had to say on this slogan? Do you agree or
disagree?
'6.4.1 Fred 5/2/2008 2:53:38 PM
The discount is nice, but I think IEEE should focus on increasing the breath and depth of
the courses available and then using that as a selling point.
'6.4.1.1
Gorn 5/2/2008 6:04:53 PM
I agree with this.
'6.4.2 Ron
5/2/2008 4:57:37 PM
Cool, my guess was right.
I don't see the amount of the discount as a good focus for the tagline. A more compelling
point for me would be the variety of courses available in a variety of presentation
methods. For me right now, the time available for a course is much more limited than the
money both personally and at work. That's why the option of finding what I want
delivered in a manner that I can fit into my schedule would be one of the biggest
attractions for me. Of course, the discount helps. I just don't think the discount amount is
enough to drive a tagline for the campaign.
'6.4.3 Shreeram
5/2/2008 5:03:44 PM
My guess was 'the power of digital learning', i,e, 1/0..but that was a bit too much of a
guess...:):)
Not sure why 10% discount would he the focus here, and how many of the members
would actually enroll those programs based on 10% discount incentive?
Major selling point should perhaps be the combination of discounts, credibility, and quality.
'6.4.3.1
Robin - Moderator
5/2/2008 5:31:14 PM
I suppose the thinking is that you could go to any of the school directly and sign up. The
10% discount is the incentive to go through IEEE.
What do you think? Does another positioning still make sense?
'6.4.3.1.1 Gorn 5/2/2008 6:06:59 PM
I see your point for going to any school with the 10% discount. However, if there is nointeresting school to go to, I wouldn't have considered the program.
'6.4.3.1.2 Russell 5/2/2008 6:17:20 PM
This comment actually helps me to refine what I expect of the IEEE endorsement.
You're right, I could go directly to the school. However, I have no assurances about
quality. The IEEE logo on the product should be my assurance that I need look no
further.
'6.4.3.1.2.1
Robin - Moderator
5/3/2008 8:24:32 AM
So the endorsement of quality is the most important thing?
Anyone else? What should be the focus?
'6.4.3.1.3 Tahir
5/3/2008 8:05:18 AM
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!0% discount is a good thing to have but it is not the first thing to think about when
choosing a program. I will first think of the quality of the program and how the program
is rated among the employers.
'6.4.4 Russell 5/2/2008 6:15:34 PM
Forget the 10%. If you give me quality, I'll pay full price. Paying 90% for junk is hardly a
bargain.
'6.4.5 thomas
5/2/2008 11:47:26 PM
a 10% discount is not the attraction. I typically ignore any sale that is only 10%. I am still
paying 90%. If i am looking to take a course, it to increase knowledge, cost plays a role of
course but really if something i want costs $1,000 and that is too much but someone says
now it is only $900, big deal. It is the content that is important if i really want it, does
$100 more really matter if i can afford $900, than it is not much of a leap to $1,000.
'6.4.6 Bronis 5/3/2008 12:25:38 AM
I agree with others that have noted the 10% discount isn't a huge draw. I wouldn't base a
major ad campaign on it. The "IEEE Seal of Quality" would be a better choice.
Pretty much all of the posts agreed that the slogan wasn't exciting. Mine was consistent
with that...
'6.4.7 Mike 5/3/2008 12:41:06 AM
I also agree with the other responses. The 10% discount is not the main attraction. For me
the fact that I can search through many providers quickly is the biggest advantage. It
enables me to locate training that I might otherwise not be aware of.
'6.4.8 Tahir 5/3/2008 8:02:56 AM
I think the focus of the compaign should shift from 10% discount to IEEE brand name. The
quality of the program and its prestige among the employers should be the main focus.
The discount of 10% is also important but I would like it to be the second focal point not at
the top.
'6.4.9 Bill
5/3/2008 9:12:35 AM
The discount is not the selling point. That ould mean that they are marked down to only a
fortune. Might work in a store window [10% Off!!], but wouldn't make me sign up for a
class I wouldn't otherwise take.
'6.4.10
Donna 5/3/2008 11:26:55 AM
I think the pricing of education is so subjective that a discount, while welcomed, is not
main motivator for visiting the site.If the discount was more specifically tied to the product
- education, I think the campaign would be more effective.
'6.4.11
Donna 5/3/2008 12:25:49 PM
I just noted your email regarding this question being of particular interest, so I'll opine
further.
I think the discount is welcomed and a excellent benefit for IEEE members. But I also
believe an important benefit would be easy access to educational resources. Perhaps a
campaign marketing the benefits of education at a discount price could be effective.
'6.4.12
aarg!!
Ben
5/3/2008 4:54:30 PM
67
The discount is like AAA, they give discounts all the time, and for a lot of things it might
help.
And a 10% discount on course is benificail but the money is not what matters.
Will this class transfer, will anyone respect me when I told them I attended that class, is
the information current and accurate. these are the things that are important. after that
getting a discount would mean i would go through ieee instead of directly.
'6.4.12.1 Robin - Moderator
5/3/2008 8:35:44 PM
Interesting comparison to AAA. (Sorta funny too.) Good points.
'6.4.13
Hesam 5/3/2008 6:02:38 PM
discount is not a good selling point, people who nuy stuff from IEEE don't buy it because it
is cheap there (IEEE is not Walmart). But there is a sense of professionals "Club",
"Exclusivity", "Brand Recognition" that brings EEs from academy and industry together.
ofcourse "exclusive" discount can be a bonus but not selling point. IEEE endorsement
should come in the form of partnership and offering IEEE certificate. (which in itself means
IEEE has to check and be responsible for the quality of the courses).
'6.4.14
Ryan 5/3/2008 8:12:04 PM
I would recommend not using the 10% discount as the focus of the campaign. I would say
focus on the content of the Program (the education providers and unique courses only
offered in the Program). Then once the customers investigate further, they will see the
10% discount, which would be used to close the deal.
'6.5
Robin - Moderator
5/2/2008 12:15:00 AM
That’s it for today! Thanks for your thoughtful responses. I have reserved most of tomorrow
to continue discussion of the questions already posted. Please plan to join us to finish up
completing the ideas we’ve been discussing.
Until tomorrow!
Robin
'6.5.1 Fred 5/2/2008 2:57:03 PM
Just a thought. Since not everyone is in the same time zone and some people read this
many hours after you posted this, not everyone knows when "tomorrow" is. I would
suggest what I do and say "tomorrow (Saturday)" or whatever.
'6.5.1.1
Shreeram
5/2/2008 5:05:58 PM
Also mentioning the posting-time EDT (or any other time zone) could be be a better idea.
'6.5.1.1.1 Robin - Moderator
Ah, okay.
5/2/2008 5:31:53 PM
Well, there is only one day left--Saturday. I'll go ahead and post the rest of the
questions.
Thanks all!
'7.1
Robin - Moderator
5/2/2008 5:32:14 PM
Welcome back to our final day of discussion. Thank you for all the participation and ideas
you have contributed. I hope you have found the discussion interesting and useful.
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'7.1.1 Robin - Moderator
5/2/2008 5:33:16 PM
I posted this and the rest of the questions early--on Friday afternoon Eastern time.
'7.2
Robin - Moderator
5/2/2008 5:32:14 PM
For the rest of your time with us today, I would like you to spend a few minutes reviewing
the new posts that other people have made. There have been a lot of ideas suggested.
Please comment, agree, disagree or add to the discussion, as you wish. Please be
especially sure to provide any additional suggestions that you may have.
Also, before you sign off, please respond to the last section about your experience with our
group.
'7.2.1 Bronis 5/3/2008 12:28:41 AM
OK, i have responded to the previous questions and reacted to several of the other posts. I
will try to find time tomorrow to look at any new ones but I want to go ahead and finish
my first time through stuff...
'7.2.2 Tahir 5/3/2008 8:15:39 AM
It was a wonderful experience for me to exchange views with other peers about the
continuing education programs. The importance of continuing education courses has
increased many fold because of rapidly changing technologies. We have to keep ourselves
current in this highly competitive job market. This group gave me the idea how other
peers feel about the essential ingredients of a successful education program. It was also
very interesting for me to know the views about the online education courses versus
traditional classroom. Although, I am more inclined to the traditional classroom courses,
this discussion was very helpful for me to better understand the importance of online
education.
'7.2.3 Bill
5/3/2008 9:17:34 AM
Most interesting experience. Robin, you've been a teacher somewhere along the way.
Each day, I clicked the new * to see what others had sais and answered your fresh
questions.
'7.2.4 Russell 5/3/2008 10:08:31 AM
OK.
'7.2.5 Ron
5/3/2008 11:30:41 AM
OK (seems like a silly question to require a response before proceeding).
'7.2.6 Donna 5/3/2008 11:32:46 AM
As I came in late, I had good opportunity to review all the posts.
The take away message from this forum seems to be that the web site needs
reorganization, including a more efficient method of obtaining detailed information quickly.
Oh, and the proposed slogan was not well received.
'7.2.7 Gorn 5/3/2008 4:10:12 PM
A response is needed before moving on.
'7.2.8 Ben
ok
5/3/2008 5:08:17 PM
69
'7.2.9 Hesam 5/3/2008 6:05:08 PM
Sure.
'7.2.10
Got it.
Ryan
5/3/2008 8:18:09 PM
'7.2.11
Mike 5/3/2008 11:41:19 PM
I agree with nearly all of the opinions posted.
I think that managing the presentation of information from the various provider web sites
will be the biggest challenge.
'7.2.12
Fred 5/4/2008 12:12:30 AM
I was the first (except for Robin) and it looks like I will be the last to post to the group.
'8.1
Robin - Moderator
5/2/2008 5:32:24 PM
How do you feel about your experience with this discussion board? Did you have difficulty
with using the software? How much time did you spend each day reading and replying to
posts?
'8.1.1 Bronis 5/3/2008 12:30:30 AM
It's not bad. The software is easy to use. I was to swamped with work yesterday and
forgot about it by the time I got home last night (Thursday). I spent a reasonable amount
of time on Wednesday. It took a lot of time to catch up this morning (almost an hour) and
I didn't quite get there. It took about that long again this evening. Perhaps a little much
overall...
'8.1.2 Tahir 5/3/2008 8:19:51 AM
The software was easy to use. It took me around 40 minutes to read and respond to the
questions on the average. Today it is taking a bit more time because I am reading all the
new reponses to earlier questions.
'8.1.3 Bill
5/3/2008 9:23:46 AM
Right! Going back and reading the new posts on previous questions made each day
longer. But you and the others made it interesting enough that we did that. Software
worked fine. I've done every day at a different place, today on a borrowed computer. The
process was good,
'8.1.4 Russell 5/3/2008 10:09:34 AM
Not bad. Was fairly easy to use. Spent maybe 30 minutes a day.
'8.1.5 Ron
5/3/2008 11:32:00 AM
Pretty good experience. The format made for easy discussions. No problems with the
software at all. I spent about 30 minutes a day on it.
'8.1.6 Donna 5/3/2008 11:39:00 AM
I felt the overall experience was good. I had exposure to the Partners program that I
would not have gotten otherwise, and I will likely use this resource in the future.
I found the software easy to use, well designed, and well suited for its purpose.
I estimate I spent a total of 2 - 3 hours on this BBd.
70
'8.1.7 Gorn 5/3/2008 4:14:09 PM
I spent about an hour each day reading and responding to questions and other responses.
I find the software is Internet Explorer friendly. However, I usually use Fire Fox; Fire Fox
will stop responding to "Post Reply" button, "Reply to this question" button, and any links
after a few minutes. It would be nice if the software works well on Fire Fox.
'8.1.7.1
Ryan 5/3/2008 8:20:45 PM
Interesting you had Firefox problems... I'm using Firefox 2.0.0.14 and didn't have a
single problem. I think the maximum time I spent on any one page would be about ten
minutes and never experienced this issue.
'8.1.7.1.1 Robin - Moderator
5/3/2008 8:29:39 PM
I think this is interesting too. I find the Firefox works much better than IE for this
program.
'8.1.8 Ben
5/3/2008 5:09:47 PM
I found this to be an enjoyable experience. the software worked well once i turned off my
anti-viruse.
'8.1.9 Hesam 5/3/2008 6:07:48 PM
Experience was good to talk back to IEEE. I'd be happy if any of our suggestions got
implemented. I didn't have any difficulty with the software. I spent about half an hour a
day.
'8.1.10
Ryan 5/3/2008 8:19:20 PM
I thought it was a fairly decent experience, no software issues at all. The daily e-mail
reminder was also very helpful. The first day I spent about 45 minutes reading and
responding, the others I would say about 1 hour to 1 hour 15 min.
'8.1.11
Mike 5/3/2008 11:46:55 PM
The software is very easy to use. I spent about 50 minutes the first day, getting the hang
of it. The following days only took about 30 to 40 minutes each.
'8.1.12
Fred 5/4/2008 12:16:35 AM
I use Firefox and had no problems (other than pages loading slowly and I think that was
because my internet connection was slow at times.)
I spent about 4 hours total reading and responding (not counting time when I was doing
something else while waiting.)
'8.2
Robin - Moderator
5/2/2008 5:32:24 PM
How would you rate the quality of the discussion? What advice would you give for our next
bulletin board focus group?
'8.2.1 Bronis 5/3/2008 12:32:24 AM
Quality was pretty good. I think the selection mechanism (drafting from IEEE members)
probably assures you have people who will respond seriously and thoughtfully. The tone
was amiable throughout.
Advice? Shorten the number of questions or extend the discussion another day or two. I
suppose one day would be enough. For me, weekends would be better. During the week is
already too busy...
71
'8.2.1.1
Tahir 5/3/2008 8:25:31 AM
I agree that extending it to the whole weekend can be very helpful.
'8.2.1.1.1 Donna 5/3/2008 11:41:37 AM
I also agree, weekends are good. I'd add that time flexibility was an extremely
important factor for me being able to participate.
'8.2.2 Tahir 5/3/2008 8:24:46 AM
The quality of discussion was great. I would suggest adding 2-3 more short surveys at the
end of everyday discussion.
'8.2.3 Bill
5/3/2008 9:37:25 AM
Be more interesting to see what the program does next. We are now insiders, and we'll be
watching to see what happens next in the IEEE pfogram. This wasn't a random sample,
true, but early on you discovered who knew about the pogram and who didn't. You had a
right to expect everyone in the group to be familiar with the program, and that was clearly
not the case.
The length of the process was about right, one day more or less would work, depending on
the topic. Some of us (maybe most of us) didn't get around to it on the day we should
have. You made it kinda' easy to pick up where we left off. The new * signals were a way
to catch up, good idea. And the discussion format was interesting. Much more than a
simple questionaire. We could have been in a hotel conference room together. Different, I
liked it.
'8.2.3.1
Bronis 5/3/2008 10:48:54 AM
I agree that the new * signals are a good interface mechanism. Also, better than a
questionaire.
'8.2.4 Russell 5/3/2008 10:15:03 AM
The quality seemed good. System was convenient to access for those afflicted with busy
schedules. I didn't note any particular problems, so I don't have any corresponding advice
to give.
'8.2.5 Ron
5/3/2008 11:34:16 AM
I would rate the discussion quality as good. The only advice I would have is similar to a
what a few others have already mentioned - a little more time. By the time you get to the
last day, there are a lot of questions and new responses to read through for possible
additional comments. Or maybe fewer questions per day towards the end.
'8.2.6 Gorn 5/3/2008 4:19:03 PM
I also agree with more time for the overal discussion; too many questions posted in one
day.
Another suggestion is we should have more survey forms when quantitative
measurements are necessary. For example, when we discuss about whether universities
of for-profit might have better quality, we can rank them with numbers between 1 and 10
using a form with some comments.
'8.2.7 Ben
5/3/2008 5:12:55 PM
The discussion here where of great value, I have learned a lot from participating.
I agree about the more time, perhaps have a set of topics for two days instead of new one
72
each day, that way those of us with limited time can get more oportunites to post as well
as get more responses to our posts.
'8.2.8 Hesam 5/3/2008 6:11:01 PM
I liked the quality of discussion. whiteboard up there was too big (at least) for the
purposes you used. Area for forum could be bigger and make it easier to see discussions.
'8.2.8.1
Robin - Moderator
5/3/2008 8:31:21 PM
I'm glad you said that. I will include a note to participants that you can resize that
whiteboard in the future by clicking and dragging (although to me it is very sensitive and
difficult to manipulate).
'8.2.9 Ryan 5/3/2008 8:25:33 PM
I thought it was a pretty good discussion. My peers can probably better respond to this
questions since they have more discussion board experience than I do. Many have
mentioned the *'s and I agree that they are useful for finding new posts. I don't know if I
have any advice for the next bulletin board focus group; the simplistic format used here
worked very well I think, don't make it any more complicated.
'8.2.10
Mike 5/3/2008 11:54:58 PM
I really enjoyed the format. (I was actually surprised by this.) I got a lot out of the
comments made by the other participants.
I agree with the suggestion that this format can (any maybe should) be used for longer
and more in-depth discussions.
'8.2.11
Fred 5/4/2008 12:23:26 AM
I think the quality of the discussion was good (better than some internet forums I am on.)
As a few people pointed out you could make the whiteboard smaller, but then your logo
will also have to be smaller.
'8.3
Robin - Moderator
5/2/2008 5:32:24 PM
I appreciate your participation and willingness to share your opinions. The information you
have provided in this discussion has been extremely valuable. Thank you again for your
time and input on behalf of IEEE.
Robin
'8.3.1 Bronis 5/3/2008 12:32:55 AM
You're welcome.
'8.3.2 Tahir 5/3/2008 8:27:31 AM
Thank you very much for organising this focus group and giving us the opportunity to
exchange our views. This was a very well organized group.
'8.3.3 Bill
5/3/2008 9:38:33 AM
Robin, it's been a pleasure. Thank you.
'8.3.4 Russell 5/3/2008 10:15:46 AM
It was a pleasure.
'8.3.5 Ron
5/3/2008 11:35:26 AM
I'm glad I had a chance to help. It's nice to have an active voice in an organization that I
73
consider important.
'8.3.6 Donna 5/3/2008 11:43:21 AM
My pleasure. I hope to benefit from this feedback in the future.
'8.3.7 Gorn 5/3/2008 4:19:38 PM
You are welcome.
'8.3.8 Ben
5/3/2008 5:13:58 PM
Thank you Robin,
This has been the most enjoyable online forum I have participating in some time.
Keep up the good work
'8.3.9 Hesam 5/3/2008 6:11:48 PM
It's been a pleasure. Thanks.
'8.3.10
Ryan 5/3/2008 8:26:19 PM
Thanks for selecting me to participate, hope it was helpful!
'8.3.11
Mike 5/3/2008 11:56:27 PM
You are quite welcome.
'8.3.12
Fred 5/4/2008 12:24:19 AM
It was my pleasure.
74