DPP 17.08.2004
Minutes of the Meeting of the District Policing Partnership held in Maghaberry
Primary School, Maghaberry on Tuesday, 17th August 2004 at 7.00 pm
PRESENT:
Councillor S P Porter (Chairman)
Mr C T Annon
Councillor D W Archer
Councillor S A Close
Councillor D J Craig
Councillor Wm Gardiner-Watson
Councillor S W Johnston
Ms F McCausland
Mr S McGowan
Councillor J G McMichael
Councillor P O’Hagan
Mr T Stewart
Councillor W M Ward
IN ATTENDANCE:
Director of Corporate Services
Committee Secretary
Police Service of Northern Ireland
Lisburn District Command Unit
Chief Superintendent K Henning
Chief Inspector A Robinson
Superintendent G Murray
Detective Sergeant P Meredith
Sergeant J Allen
Sergeant S McCracken
1
Introduction by Chairman
The Chairman, Councillor S P Porter, welcomed those present to the Meeting and
proceeded to outline the establishment, composition and main functions of the Partnership.
He also outlined the circumstances in which information cannot be provided.
For the benefit of those members of the public seated in the public gallery, the members of
the DPP who were present introduced themselves, as did Lisburn Police representatives.
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2
Apologies
It was agreed to accept apologies for non-attendance at the Meeting from Mrs S Irvine,
Councillor J H Lockhart, Mrs H McKinley, Mr K Walsh, Miss E Shields, Assistant
Director of Corporate Services and Mrs A McCann, DPP Manager.
3
Declarations of Interest
There were no declarations of interest.
4
Minutes
It was proposed by Councillor D J Craig, seconded by Mr T Stewart and agreed that the
minutes of the Public Meeting of the Partnership held on 15 June 2004 be confirmed and
signed.
It was proposed by Councillor W M Ward, seconded by Councillor D W Archer and
agreed that the minutes of the Informal Meeting of the Partnership held on 17 June 2004 be
confirmed and signed.
5
Questions Received from the Public
5.1
Written Questions Received Prior to the Meeting
5.1.1
Acts of Vandalism – Livestock and Meat Commission Building
(Formerly the Lissue Hospital Building)
Sergeant S McCracken advised that they were aware of the above issue and that efforts
were being made to increase policing in the area, including the utilisation of a Crime
Prevention Office, to prevent incidents.
5.1.2
Vandalism – Anahilt and Hillhall Primary Schools/Lisburn City Area
Sergeant S McCracken advised that a Crime Prevention Officer would be visiting the
schools before the re-commencement of the new term and that a full survey of the premises
had been carried out to ascertain if they could be made less susceptible to vandalism. He
further advised that a Schools Watch Programme was in operation at a number of schools
and a leaflet drop had been carried out at surrounding houses to ask them to keep a watch
on the school and to report anything which was suspicious. In terms of Anahilt Primary
School, he stated that he had spoken to representatives from the school before the summer
as well as a number of individuals in an effort to redirect them from vandalism to alleviate
anti-social behaviour. However, he pointed out the difficulties with Hillhall Primary
School, but stressed that the police were trying to work with the community to protect the
premises in their area.
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5.2
Verbal Questions Raised at the Meeting
5.2.1
Antisocial Behaviour – Lisburn Omniplex
Chairman, Councillor S P Porter
Following reference by the Chairman, Councillor S P Porter, and in furtherance to a
question put forward by a member of the public to measures which were to be put in place
in regard to antisocial behaviour at Lisburn Omniplex, Sergeant S McCracken advised of
ongoing meetings which had taken place with Council Officers and the management of the
Omniplex and agreements which had been made arising from this including a change in
hours. In particular, he advised that CCTV funding would be available in the near future to
expand the current scheme in Lisburn which was organised by Lisburn Commerce Against
Crime and that the Omniplex was one of the areas being examined within that. Sergeant S
McCracken, in referring to the success of the installation of cameras at Lagan Valley
Hospital, hoped that the provision of cameras at the Omniplex would have a similar
impact.
5.2.2
Ongoing Problems – Dromara Area
Chairman, Councillor S P Porter (on behalf of Councillor E C Poots)
The Chairman, Councillor S P Porter, on behalf of Councillor E C Poots, enquired as to
what measures were being put in place to relieve ongoing problems within the Dromara
area and urged for more local resources to be sent to the area, particularly at weekends.
Chief Superintendent K Henning referred to legal issues which may be sub judice in this
regard which he could not discuss. However, he advised that the police were aware of
problems in this area and that the Neighbourhood Police Team were paying particular
attention to the area.
5.2.3
Anti-Social Behaviour – Drum Car Park
Mr T Hegarty, Drumbo Residents Association
Mr Hegarty referred to major problems of antisocial behaviour within the Drum car park,
including vandalism and joy-riding which, he stated, could be attributed to the fact that the
car park was quite open. He reported that a meeting had taken place with Department for
Regional Development Roads Service who were going to undertake some work to
minimise the effect of those driving round the car park causing problems and asked if the
police could take measures in the interim period.
Mr Hegarty also expressed his thanks to Chief Inspector A Robinson for getting some
work underway in regard to this matter.
In terms of the comments by Mr Hegarty, Chief Inspector A Robinson advised that, in the
short term, the police would be keeping up pressure and that patrols had been put into this
area in particular. In the long term, it was hoped that the structural changes to the car park
might improve the situation.
Chief Inspector A Robinson made reference to comments which he had received in regard
to noise from a car radio and advised that as it was located in a public area it was not an
offence for the police to deal with.
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5.2.3
Anti-Social Behaviour – Drum Car Park
Mr T Hegarty, Drumbo Residents Association (Cont’d)
The Chairman, Councillor S P Porter, suggested that the residents make contact with the
Council’s Environmental Health Department as a way forward in this matter and suggested
that details be left after the meeting.
In response to comments regarding the response times and the fact that those who were
causing the trouble had moved on by the time the police had arrived, Chief Inspector A
Robinson encouraged the residents that, in emergency situations, they use “999” which
would provide a quicker response. He advised that the incidences were occurring at this
location at 2.00/3.00 am on Saturdays and Sundays which was a peak time. In Lisburn, the
police reviewed each morning every incident which had occurred over the previous 24
hours which averaged at 100 per day and 120 at weekends. They would establish the peak
demand time and what they needed to do was to use specific patrols to look for those
causing the disturbances. As the DPP were aware there were now more manpower
resources in Lisburn and they had been successful in apprehending people and this work
would continue.
5.2.4
Police Cover for Aghalee
Aghalee and District Development Association
In response to an enquiry in regard to the provision of policing for the Aghalee area, Chief
Inspector A Robinson advised that policing resources had been reduced from 11,500 to
7,500 and that Lisburn was supposed to receive an additional 70 part-time officers but that
this had not happened yet. “Post Patten”, the police station in Moira had been closed for
some time, however, since January this year it had been re-opened and neighbourhood
police regularly carried out patrols from the Moira station. Responses for the whole of the
district however were centralised in Lisburn where “999” calls were prioritised. There
were Community Policing Teams which were based in Dunmurry and Moira with a
Sergeant and six police officers working from the Moira station.
The Chairman, Councillor S P Porter, made reference to discussions at the Private
Meeting, which had been held prior to this meeting, in regard to policing manpower levels
and advised that it had been decided to invite the Chief Constable to a future meeting to
address these concerns.
5.2.5
Attendance of Female Personnel at Reports of Rape
Councillor D W Archer
Councillor D W Archer, in referring to a recent incident of a report of an alleged rape,
questioned the appropriateness of the attendance of two male police officers and male
paramedics at the scene and asked if every effort should not be made for at least one
female police officer and one female paramedic to be present.
Councillor D W Archer, whilst appreciating that such a Forum was not suitable for
discussing specific cases, requested that Chief Superintendent K Henning discuss with him
“off-line” the particulars in regard to charges which had been dropped in relation to a
certain case.
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5.2.5
Attendance of Female Personnel at Reports of Rape
Councillor D W Archer (Cont’d)
Chief Superintendent K Henning advised that it was not always possible to have female
officers ready to attend such a call. Whilst he was unaware of the circumstances
surrounding the particular case, as referred to by Councillor D W Archer, Chief
Superintendent advised that, where possible, there would be female officers present and
that the police regarded sensitivity as being of paramount importance in such cases.
Hence, these cases were sent to be dealt with by a specialised unit which comprised of
specialist and very highly trained officers. He stated that perhaps it would be possible to
talk afterwards about the specifics of the case. In terms of the attendance of the
paramedics, it was not possible for the police to comment on this and he suggested that
Councillor D W Archer write to the hospital in regard to this issue.
Superintendent G Murray advised that, in regard to the time of the particular case as
referred to by Councillor D W Archer, a female officer had been engaged in making an
arrest relating to domestic violence. Four other police officers were employed in two
incidents of domestic violence relating to a person being arrested for attempted murder.
He advised that the main aim of the police was to get to the scene to obtain evidence to
support any allegation. He confirmed that there were sufficient police officers being
deployed but that the priority of the “999” system was that whatever officers were
available attended the scene.
5.2.6
Investigation of Murder of Mr James McMahon
Councillor Wm Gardiner-Watson
Councillor Wm Gardiner-Watson advised of an approach which he had received from a
member of the public requesting that an enquiry be made at this meeting in regard to
progress relating to the investigation of the murder of Mr James McMahon. In this regard,
Members were advised that the investigation was very much ongoing. A Family Police
Liaison Officer had been appointed to the family and a specialist team had been brought in.
The victim’s family were kept up to date if not daily probably within a 48 hour period. All
of the information which had come through had been disseminated and follow up action
taken. However, there was not the same amount of information coming in now as there
was previously. Certain satellite offences had culminated from investigations. Significant
resources had been committed in sending samples to specialist forensic laboratories in
England and discussions had taken place in relation to sending samples to America.
In response to comments by Mr T Stewart as to whether it would be likely that anyone
would be made amenable for this matter, it was advised that it was not possible to
comment on this. Like any enquiry, there were suspects and it was the priority of the
police to obtain that evidence.
5.2.7
Vandalism at Hillsborough
Councillor W M Ward
Councillor W M Ward referred to continuing representations being received from the
residents of Hillsborough in regard to vandalism in the vicinity of the public conveniences
in the car park area and asked if the police had been able to make any cautions or
apprehensions.
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5.2.7
Vandalism at Hillsborough
Councillor W M Ward (Cont’d)
At this point, Chief Superintendent K Henning introduced Detective Sergeant P Meredith,
Member of the CID and representing the Crime Manager.
Detective Sergeant P Meredith advised that no specific reports had been received in regard
to this matter so therefore he was unable to advise if there had been any detentions. He
further advised that reports of such incidences were referred to the Neighbourhood Police
Team for investigation.
6
Report of the Lisburn District Commander
Members had been furnished with a copy of the Lisburn District Commander’s three
monthly report for the period 1 April to 30 June 2004, which outlined the performance of
the DCU over that period. Chief Superintendent K Henning made a presentation with
regard to his report and responded to the following questions in relation to its content:6.1
E Mail School Alert Scheme
Councillor D J Craig
In regard to the development of the above initiative, Councillor D J Craig enquired as to
how many schools within the Lisburn area would be participating in this scheme and the
time-scale involved in getting it operational.
Sergeant S McCracken advised of the Pyramid Scheme which was currently in existence to
alert schools of an abduction or similar incident, whereby the base school was phoned and
would phone two schools, which would phone a further two schools and so on. He advised
that this scheme worked reasonably well until someone within the school was unfamiliar
with the procedures. In reviewing this scheme, the concept of emailing was put forward
and a meeting took place with the Principals. However, whilst the schools had indicated
that they did not open their emails every morning, Sergeant S McCracken stated that they
had to accept some responsibility in this scheme. He advised that the police were working
in partnership with the Crime Prevention Officer from the South Eastern Education and
Library Board and that a pilot scheme was commencing in September in relation to an
email alert scheme which would involve 50 schools within the area. The scheme would
entail emails being sent to the schools and at the same time the School Secretary would get
a fax message and the mobile phone would ring to advise them to check their emails.
Sergeant S McCracken emphasised that the police were keen to develop this scheme.
6.2
Referrals to the Council – Breach of Byelaws regarding Drinking in Designated
Areas – Councillor D J Craig
With regard to the 29 referrals made to the Council in respect of a breach of byelaws
relating to drinking in a designated area, Councillor D J Craig enquired as to how many of
these the Council was going to prosecute and what level of fine could be expected to be
imposed.
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6.2
Referrals to the Council – Breach of Byelaws regarding Drinking in Designated
Areas – Councillor D J Craig (Cont’d)
The Director of Corporate Services advised that it was Council policy that all breaches
were referred to the Council’s solicitor for action. He advised Members that, in the past,
fines in the region of £50 had been imposed on individuals as well as legal costs of
approximately £100 to £125.
6.3
Policy Position – Anti-Social Behaviour
Councillor P O’Hagan
Whilst Councillor P O’Hagan recognised the benefits of listening to the views of the public
at such meetings, which gave an indication not only to the Council, but also to the police,
of some of the problems which existed, he considered that Members should not be
pursuing individual cases but rather asking as to the policy position.
Having drawn attention to examples of anti-social behaviour within the area, including
difficulties arising from the siting of bonfires, the cutting down of trees, paramilitary flags,
Councillor O’Hagan enquired as to the policy position in addressing such matters.
Chief Superintendent K Henning advised that at present anti-social behaviour was
addressed under the Public Order Act if it was criminal damage and under the Licensing
Order (NI) Order by way of Bye-Laws. He stated that he looked forward to the
implementation within the next 12 months of Anti-Social Orders within Northern Ireland
which currently existed in the UK mainland. As well as the introduction of such Orders, it
was hoped to see the introduction of Anti-Social Behaviour Contracts, which was the step
before the Orders. Chief Superintendent K Henning explained that the individual, on the
second offence, would be issued with a contract and that if this contract was broken the
matter would then be progressed through the Courts where an Anti-Social Behaviour Order
would be issued. Chief Superintendent K Henning also referred to Penalty Notices for
Disorder (PND) which currently operated in the UK mainland whereby if an individual
was being disorderly the police would be able to issue that person with a penalty notice
which would carry a fine of between £20 and £60.
In relation to the issue of bonfires, Chief Superintendent K Henning advised that this was a
community issue which would require a partnership approach. Sergeant S McCracken
referred to the Council’s Good Relations Strategy and in particular welcomed the
organisation of a meeting by the Council to which all major organisations had been invited
to be in attendance to examine such issues as bonfires, sectarian graffiti, flying of flags,
etc.
With regard to paramilitary flags, Chief Superintendent K Henning advised that it was
necessary to exercise caution and sensitivity in dealing with this matter as sometimes the
situation could be inflamed by the presence of the Police. However, in general, he advised
that the Chief Constable was on record as saying that paramilitary flags were not
acceptable and were illegal.
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6.3
Policy Position – Anti-Social Behaviour
Councillor P O’Hagan (Cont’d)
For clarification purposes, Councillor S P Porter in referring to the bonfire site at the
omniplex, advised that he had received complaints in this regard. He advised of an
invitation which he had received to attend a meeting to discuss the issue and to the
partnership approach which had been adopted and which had resulted in a positive
outcome in the matter.
6.4
Court Sentences
Councillor Wm Gardiner-Watson
Councillor Wm Gardiner-Watson drew attention to the fact that offences against persons
was the highest type of crime within the Lisburn District and referred to representations
which had been made by the DPP to the Public Prosecutor that the Court Service was too
lenient. Having referred to a recent case in which the Court Service threatened to impose a
more stringent sentence, Councillor Wm Gardiner-Watson enquired as to whether the
police supported such sentencing and if they could assist the Council to encourage the
Court Service to deal more severely with offenders.
Chief Superintendent K Henning advised that the police did support more stringent
sentencing by the Court Service and he welcomed any support the DPP could lend in this
matter. He stated that the function of the police was to deal with offences and report the
facts following which it would be the responsibility of the Courts to deal with the
individual. He emphasised the fact that the police were not responsible for the release of
people, a matter for which they often came under fire from the public.
6.5
Youths Causing Annoyance – Reduction in Programme Referrals
Councillor J G McMichael
In relation to the problem of Youths Causing Annoyance, Councillor J G McMichael
referred to the initiatives which worked with young people and enquired from the police as
to what reasons they considered were responsible for the recent marked reduction in the
number of referrals. He also enquired if there were sufficient resources to try to achieve
the targets set in relation to this issue.
Sergeant S McCracken advised that because the response patrols were tied up with day to
day policing that specific operations would be called to deal with youths causing
annoyance. He considered that the police had targeted the right areas and that young
people were getting the message. Plain clothed police would be used to identify areas
where drinking etc would be taking place following which uniformed patrols would be
called in to deal with the matter. He advised that there had been a lull from January to
March because of resources and other commitments, however, over the last two months
patrols had increased again. Neighbourhood police officers, Community Services Officers
and part-time officers would be involved in these operations. Sergeant S McCracken
further advised that during a patrol on the previous Saturday night there had been no young
persons seen drinking, however, 20 adults had been dealt with. He emphasised that the
police did tackle everyone who was seen drinking.
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6.5
Youths Causing Annoyance – Reduction in Programme Referrals
Councillor J G McMichael (Cont’d)
In terms of the various youth initiatives, Sergeant S McCracken advised that the police
were more than keen to make referrals and that they were discussing the issue with the
South Belfast area to become involved and to make referrals to the programme. He
confirmed that the police did not wish to see this programme decline.
6.6
Public Confidence
Councillor S A Close
Councillor S A Close questioned as to how the police and others intended to increase the
very low percentage figure in regard to the confidence of the public that the police were
doing a good job within the area.
Chief Superintendent K Henning, having noted the comments made by Councillor S A
Close, advised that the monitoring of confidence levels was an issue which he wished to
discuss with the DPP. He stated that high visibility patrols would raise the confidence
within the public and that they would endeavour to get as many officers to the front line of
community policing as they could. However, he pointed out that many of the problems
within society were not solely for the police to deal with and it was necessary to have
partnership approaches with other organisations, as well as accepting the fact of parental
responsibility. Chief Superintendent K Henning gave assurances that the police would do
its part to endeavour to give the best quality of service it could. He stated that whilst
members of the public may see police vehicles driving past, it was necessary to recognise
that they may be on their way to a serious road traffic accident.
6.7
Community Meetings
Councillor D W Archer
Councillor D W Archer advised of representations which he had received advising that
representatives of the DPP had met with community representatives and other interested
parties to discuss issues such as paramilitary flags, etc, and expressed his concern that
neither he nor other DPP members had been advised of this. He referred to a number of
flags which had been taken down in the Lisburn District Command Unit and to the fact
that, as community representatives, Councillors for the area should have been advised.
In response to the above comments, Councillor S P Porter stated that, in an effort to take
the matter forward and to open dialogue, he had been asked in his capacity as Chairman of
the DPP to facilitate a private and confidential meeting between the police and community
associations. He stated that he would also accept such future initiations as he regarded this
as a role to increase community policing.
Councillor O’Hagan expressed caution at such actions and stated that the Chairman would
be unable to represent his views at such meetings. He considered it unnecessary for the
police to advise if flags had been taken down as, in any event, the flying of these flags was
against the law and the role of the DPP was to ensure that the law was enforced.
Councillor S P Porter stressed that he was not representing the DPP at this meeting but
trying to bring about calm within the community. He commended the police who had been
very willing to work with the groups in this matter.
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6.8
Under Age Drinking – Off-site
Mr C T Annon
Mr C T Annon, in referring to the fact that under age drinking may contribute to such
factors as assaults, vandalism, etc, drew attention to youths with branded bags containing
substantial amounts of alcohol and stressed the need to eradicate “off-site” drinking.
Members were advised of an initiative by police in North Belfast which used minors in an
alcohol enforcement operation. However, it was pointed out that Lisburn District
Command Unit did not wish to adopt this approach.
It was further advised that the Police had visited all of the off-licenses in the Lisburn area
and would be taking the matter forward.
6.9
Delay in Bail Issues
Mr S Magowan
Mr S Magowan made enquiries regarding the delay in bail issues and as to whether these
figures, as referred to by Chief Superintendent K Henning during his presentations, were
comparative with those across other District Command Units.
Chief Superintendent K Henning advised that some of the figures across other District
Command Units were better than Lisburn, others a lot worse. He asked Members to bear
in mind the volume of paperwork being dealt with and reported that the crimes in the
current reporting quarter were 2,300, which will equate to approximately 9,000 predicted
for the current year. He stated that, within the criminal justice unit, officers were very
particular with regard to the completion of issues to the Director of Public Prosecution
Service. There were several other combinations to look at and they would be trying to
resolve this issue.
6.10
Flying of Paramilitary Flags
Mr T Stewart
Mr T Stewart stated that the flying of paramilitary flags was unacceptable and enquired as
to what the Chief Constable proposed to do to remove them.
Chief Superintendent K Henning explained that such decisions rested with the local
District Commander of each Unit and that these issues would be taken forward in
consultation with the local community. As the local District Commander of the Lisburn
area, he would be taking responsibility for this and would be taking the matter forward.
Chief Inspector A Robinson confirmed the number of flags which had been taken down in
the area as 43. He advised that flags were removed where they were likely to be a breach
of peace or where emblems showed support for an illegal organisation. He acknowledged
that they had not fully consulted with community groups in this matter but wished to move
forward to engage with community groups so that the flags were not put up in the first
instance. In relation to specific circumstances, Chief Inspector A Robinson requested that
such details be provided to him.
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6.11
Individuals Released on Bail and Who Re-Offend
Councillor S W Johnston
In response to comments by Councillor S W Johnston in regard to figures relating to those
who were released on bail and then charged with serious offences, Chief Superintendent K
Henning advised that, where they could, the police would charge offenders and they would
take that offender forward and make every effort for them to be remanded. If it was a
scheduled offence, there was no difficulty in that. In the case of other crimes, the police
would charge individuals and take them before the courts and ask that they be remanded to
custody. That is where their duty ended. It was often found that they caught prolific
criminals who were taken before the courts and who would be remanded in custody by the
local magistrates. Invariably, when they would go to court, they would be given bail. In
these circumstances, the police would send the investigating officer and put forward a
stringent argument against that. If the court was mindful to release the individual, the
police would apply for bail conditions. It was pointed out to Members that the police now
had powers to arrest for breach of bail conditions and were very pro-active in ensuring that
bail conditions were being adhered to. In the event of non-adherence, they would bring the
individuals back before the courts.
6.12
Parent Responsibility
Councillor W M Ward
Councillor W M Ward commended Chief Superintendent K Henning on his previous
comments in regard to parent responsibility. He stated that he was appalled at such
responsibility being negated and considered that this was an issue which required to be
addressed.
6.13
Sounding of Horn - Late at Night
Councillor W M Ward
Following comments by Councillor W M Ward in regard to annoyance caused by persons
sounding the horn from their car late at night, it was pointed out that this was a Council
responsibility. Chief Superintendent K Henning suggested that, as a way forward, it may
be an idea for the Council to initiate a partnership arrangement in dealing with a matter
such as this.
6.14
Criminal Offence by Individuals belonging to Organisations
Councillor S P Porter
In response to comments by Councillor S P Porter, Chief Superintendent K Henning
advised that, if any organisation believed any of its members had committed a criminal
offence and reported it, it would be investigated.
6.15
Car Crime and Burglaries
Councillor S P Porter
In response to comments by Councillor S P Porter in regard to the focusing of resources
relating to car crime and burglaries, Chief Superintendent K Henning advised that these
issues were focused on regularly. The police held a meeting every morning which
examined the previous 24-hour period to ensure that they had not missed anything and
there were also two police analysts who focused on crime issues and outlined crime trends.
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6.15
Car Crime and Burglaries
Councillor S P Porter (Cont’d)
With specific reference to car crimes, it was pointed out that the theft of vehicles had
reduced by 16% in this quarter, whilst the theft from vehicles had increased significantly.
Chief Superintendent K Henning advised that the police were doing everything possible,
including a leaflet drop and high profile patrols, but seemed to be unable to get the
message across that individuals should not leave their property within view inside their car.
Chief Superintendent K Henning stated that in an effort to concentrate more on prevention,
the police had started a new weekly press brief. Where they saw a problem, they would
put resources in, however, they did need the assistance from the public and the community.
In response to comments by Mr T Stewart regarding the good work which had been carried
out by auto crime, Chief Superintendent K Henning stated that they had seen some
excellent results over the last three to four weeks which would be highlighted at the next
DPP Meeting, together with details on the various issues which the police had been dealing
with. Chief Superintendent K Henning pointed out that there were only two areas within
the overall crime that the police were not achieving a decrease and that every other single
area had decreased, particularly in relation to burglaries.
The Chairman, Councillor S P Porter, thanked everyone for their attendance at what he
considered to be a very positive and productive Meeting. He commended Chief
Superintendent K Henning on the presentation of his report and looked forward to working
with him in the months ahead.
There being no further business, the meeting was terminated at 9.09 pm.
_______________________________
Chairman
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