845-583-4350 Ext 15
845-583-4710 (F)
Town of Bethel
Planning Board
PO Box 300, 3454 Route 55
White Lake, NY 12786
The Town of Bethel Planning Board held a Work Session on May 13, 2014 at 7 PM at the Dr. Duggan
Community Center, 3460 State Route 55, White Lake. The regular meeting of the Planning Board
followed on the same date at 7:30 PM. On the agenda at that time were the following:
In attendance: Daniel Gettel Chairman, Steve Simpson, Vice Chairman, Susan Brown Otto, David
Biren, Michael Cassaro, Wilfred Hughson, David Slater, Walter Norris, Alternate, BJ Gettel, Code
Enforcement Officer, Jacqueline Ricianni, Attorney, Jannetta MacArthur, Recording Secretary, Michael
Weeks, Engineer, Glenn Smith, Engineer, Daniel Sturm, Supervisor, Vicky Vassmer-Simpson,
Councilwoman and Lillian Hendrickson, Councilwoman
Pledge to the flag.
Full board in attendance, alternate not seated.
Motion to approve the minutes from the April 8, 2014 Planning Board meeting by Mike Cassaro,
second by Steve Simpson
All in favor – 7
Opposed - 0
Agreed and carried
Daniel Gettel: In a minute I will open this meeting up for a public hearing, at which time I will ask Mr.
Wasson, the engineer for the applicant, to give a brief presentation to the audience. If anyone in the
audience would like to comment, and you are not signed up on the signup sheet but still want to
comment afterwards, please feel free to raise your hand and I will call you up at that time. We will ask
you to come forward and state your name for the record. Please direct all of your comments to this
board. This is not a public debate, nor is it necessarily a question or answer period. Hopefully a lot of
your questions will be answered during Mr. Wasson’s presentation, or when we discuss it later, as a
board. As soon as all of the public comments are received we will move back into our regular meeting
to discuss this application as a board.
1) Public Hearing for a Special Use Permit for a Summer Camp to be located at 300 Segar
Rosenberg Road, known as Bethel Tax Map #: 17-1-27.2, Proposed by Camp Mayin Tohar.
(Wasson)
Daniel Gettel: Mr. Wasson if you would please.
Adjoiner notification return receipts for this application have been received.
Web page: www.town.bethel.ny.us
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845-583-4350 Ext 15
845-583-4710 (F)
Town of Bethel
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PO Box 300, 3454 Route 55
White Lake, NY 12786
Randy Wasson: Good evening, my name is Randy Wasson of Wasson Engineering. We prepared the
site plan for Camp Mayin Tohar. This project is located on 300 Segar Rosenberg Road. It is the site of
the existing Pleasure Island Bungalow Colony. Existing bungalows are here in the front; there is an
existing pool, and the parking lot. The proposal is to convert this into a seasonal summer camp with
some new buildings in the back including a kitchen/dining facility, a shul, a couple of dormitories, and a
mikva structure. For this year the camps intention is to use the existing buildings and have
approximately 75 residents, including 50 campers. They are boys, ages 14 to 15 years old. In the future,
when these new buildings are done, the intention is to add another 50 boys and more staff with a total
population of approximately 140. They have there own water system and sewage system. The proposed
parking lot, we are reconfiguring the entrance, will basically be in the same location.
Daniel Gettel: Is that it Mr. Wasson?
Randy Wasson: Yes.
Motion to open up this meeting for a public hearing by Susan Brown Otto, second by Steve Simpson
All in favor - 7
Opposed – 0
Agreed and carried
Daniel Gettel: We do have three people who have signed up to speak. As I stated, if you did not sign up
and wish to speak please raise your hand and let me know.
Constance Jahelka (193 Segar Road) – I live on that road. I was told, I don’t know if it is true, that the
property taxes will go up, and the property values will go down. The sewer system won’t hold for all
the people. Supposedly, the people that were there before, it didn’t work. Those are my questions.
Shannon Brunning: That is one of the things I wanted to know too. I was told about the sewer system
too. All of these people there, now there is going to be a lot of people there for the summer. I really
don’t like that.
Artie Cipoletti (260 Segar Road) - I just wanted to say before I speak that the advertised start of the
meeting on the certified letters mailed out was to be 7:45 pm. There are a few neighbors that aren’t here
at the moment that probably would like to speak. I would like that on the record. I have a couple of
documents. Thank you members of the board for giving me the opportunity to speak today. I have
prepared a couple of things; I would like to discuss my feelings about this. This Special Use application
before you is something that is under consideration right now. I am the largest property owner on Segar
Road. I own property on both sides of the street. I am a couple of 100 feet away. My major concern is
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the negative impact the proposed construction will have on the character of the neighborhood. Currently
Pleasure Island Resort is lightly used. Even with the light use the current septic system was functioning
improperly. The property utilizes an open sand filter system. When it was originally designed it could
handle 9,200 gallons per day. That would be adequate for what was there. That system, if maintained
properly, is very good. However, after I consulted the Board of Health, I spoke to the Board of Health
yesterday; the Board of Health informed me that this type of system needs annual maintenance. If the
annual maintenance is not performed properly the system will not function. If you go to the center of
that presentation that I gave you, it shows the existing system. It shows that a couple of the items are in
disrepair. The system utilizes a spider type system that leaches on a sand base. That sand base needs to
be maintained so it needs clean sand which allows the waste to permeate through. Because it hasn’t
been maintained it forms a hard pan which doesn’t enable the water to filter through. The waste is
sitting on the top and not draining through. You can see the leaves. Going through the winter season
and what not, everything stays on top. It decomposes and turns into top soil, and top soil combined with
that creates the hard pan condition that doesn’t allow it to permeate through. Because it isn’t permeating
through there is a stream that this actually crosses over and it is downhill of where the septic system is.
That stream flows over to my neighbor’s property. They recently started a farm in front of their house
that would be 315 Segar Road, which is directly across the road. Their farm is actually the recipient of
the wastewater that comes off this treatment plant that is not working properly. The DEC recognizes the
stream. I called them, unfortunately they are understaffed right now and they were unable to come to
see it, but I am sure if the board seeks their advice they will be a little more likely to react to this
situation quicker. Regular maintenance would include removing the top soil, keeping the leaves cleaned
off, keeping the sand base so it allows the water to permeate, and most importantly to make sure all of
the piping is correct. If you look at the photo, and apparently when they made this purchase they might
have lacked some due diligence, the piping is actually disconnected from the field. The sewer is
leaching directly into the stream. The pictures depict that very clearly. You can see what is going on
over there. If the system is brought up to specs it can handle 50 gallons a day per person. If it is
maintained and rebuilt it would be adequate to handle what they are proposing. My only thing is that the
character of the neighborhood, a single family farm neighborhood. We have the nature conservancy
down the block. There is a picture of that there. We are looking to preserve land and open space. Like
I said I am the largest landowner on that block and it is in my best interest to keep it an open space. I am
a farmer. I have a small farm. I have a very small operation. Most of the crops that I have grown I
actually donate. I’m not in it to make a living. I enjoy doing it, and I enjoy donating and helping the
community. My main point of this whole thing is not just the inadequacy of the septic system, but the
character of the neighborhood just doesn’t warrant this kind of impact and to allow the density that they
are proposing is just beyond what should be allowed. I work throughout New York. I work in the
Northeast. I’m a developer. I have an engineering background so density is something that we always
consider. This density here wouldn’t be allowed in an area that is closer to a city, never mind up here in
Sullivan County in the country. I thank you for your time and I hope you consider this is a complete
opposition to this application.
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White Lake, NY 12786
Daniel Gettel: That is all of the people that have signed up. If anyone else from the audience would like
to offer any other comments I will entertain that at this time.
No one
Daniel Gettel: Jacy, your thoughts on the 7:45 pm meeting time. It is currently 7:45 pm.
Jacqueline Ricciani: My notes from the last meeting say that it was scheduled for 7:30 pm. I don’t
know why it said 7:45 pm.
Daniel Gettel: I believe the minutes read that way also.
Jacqueline Ricciani: Right, the minutes and my notes were 7:30 pm. I don’t know what the notice was
that was sent out. Was that 7:30 pm?
Randy Wasson: No, I think it was 7:45 pm. I think the reason was it came off of a sample document. If
you want to, I have no problem waiting.
Jacqueline Ricciani: We also received written correspondence. Perhaps we could address that. That
will take a few minutes and we will see if anyone comes in. It is 7:45 pm now.
Daniel Gettel: Mr. Cipoletti, since you submitted your comments in writing we can include that in the
file. We have three other pieces of correspondence from adjoiners.
Artie Cipoletti: Yes please do.
Read into the record:
1. A letter from Shawn Kearns – Segar Road
2. A letter from Adria Fried – Segar Road
3. A letter from Randy Nygard – Segar Road
Submitted for the record:
1. Notes prepared by Artie Cipoletti - Segar Road
Motion to receive and file the four documents listed above as submitted by adjoiners by Steve
Simpson, second by David Biren
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White Lake, NY 12786
All in favor - 7
Opposed – 0
Agreed and carried
Daniel Gettel: I do realize that some other people have come into the room since 7:45 pm. If you would
like to comment on this application please come forward and speak.
Harry Caro - I have lived for 35 years on Segar Road. I object to this proposal. I moved here for peace
and quiet. That is my biggest concern. This will change things. The septic smells very badly.
Daniel Gettel: Anyone else from the audience?
No one
Motion to close this public hearing and go back to our regular meeting by David Slater, second by
Mike Cassaro
All in favor – 7
Opposed - 0
Agreed and carried
Daniel Gettel: Mr. Wasson, we have discussed this as a board before. Do you have any comments
about the sewer system specifically?
Randy Wasson: I don’t have any disagreement with what was said by Mr. Cipoletti and some of the
other speakers, maybe just a couple of questions on it. The system consists….basically it is a sand filter
followed by chlorine disinfection, which is required by the DEC permit. The system is sized such that it
can handle the permeated flow, which is 5,500 gallons of flow per day, which is the current permitted
system flow. The system has been overgrown. There is grass. It hasn’t been maintained in quite some
time. The intention would be to remove that. This is all part of what we are going to put in the form of
a report, which Glenn requested. The Health Department needs that as well. That top layer of sand
along with all of the grass that has been growing has to be removed. Trees and brush within 10 feet of
the bed have to be removed. What has been said is correct. The pipe has come apart right where it
enters the sand filter so it doesn’t get to the center of the bed. It doesn’t disperse evenly over the beds,
which is an easy fix. I was unaware that the pipe runs over the stream. I didn’t see any leakage into a
stream. Of course, it wasn’t being used. I didn’t really see any in the photo, but I’m not saying it wasn’t
there. We can certainly look at that. Other than that, it needs some upgrades but it is properly sized and
it exists. I believe it can be made to work.
Daniel Gettel: Glenn, do you want to touch on your last letter with Randy?
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White Lake, NY 12786
Glenn Smith: The evaluation of the sewage treatment system Randy is putting together before final
approval. One thing about those old sand filters. Now a day’s you can’t use them for new development.
But, back in the day they were very popular. They are pretty simple but they have to be maintained.
Once you have grass growing on them they don’t work at all. The sand should be replaced. It should be
raked every day or every couple of days, and there is a valid DEC permit for it. With proper
maintenance….
Randy Wasson: They work quite well.
Daniel Gettel: I believe you are both in agreement though that we do need some documentation?
Glenn Smith: Absolutely. We need an evaluation. Randy said he was going to provide this.
David Biren: What can we do to upgrade this system and not use this type of system?
Glenn Smith: Not use this type of system?
David Biren: Yes, because we have to believe it is going to be maintained properly and if isn’t
maintained properly, raked every 3 or 4 days, it’s not going to work.
Glenn Smith: The SPDES permit is very specific on what can be discharged into that treatment system
and if it is raked, properly maintained and chlorinated, it should meet the permit. If not they are in
violation of the DEC.
David Biren: Who checks on this?
Glenn Smith: You have to do discharge reports to the DEC on a monthly basis. The town can check on
this any time they want to.
David Biren: But you are saying it has to be done every 4 days?
Glenn Smith: Maintenance? To keep the system working right, yes.
David Biren: To keep the people in the area happy, if it’s maintained every 4 days, and it is checked
monthly.
Glenn Smith: Maybe every day.
David Biren: There is a gap there. You are saying it is checked monthly, but it should be done daily.
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Glenn Smith: Maintenance, yes.
David Biren: There is a gap there. What could be done to make everyone happy? There has to be a
different system that could be installed to keep the whole place happy. It is a small community at Segar
Rosenberg Road.
Glenn Smith: A totally different system?
Randy Wasson: They are still limited to 5,500 gallons, whether they have 10 people there or a 100
people there. These are the systems that work for the seasonal facilities. They require maintenance. If
you do your daily or weekly maintenance, as long as the water gets on the sand….
David Biren: What would you use now a day’s?
Randy Wasson: We do use these.
Glenn Smith: A different orientation. They have two sets of sand filters. You can use these sand filters.
I don’t know if there is room here for this.
David Biren: Can that be incorporated here?
Randy Wasson: I don’t know if there is room for that here.
David Biren: I’m just trying to make it easier for everyone.
Randy Wasson: You still have your primary filter, which is the one in question and is the problem. I
would say to you that the problem is if you don’t maintain it you will have a problem. If you do
maintain them you shouldn’t because water gets on top of the sand and it disappears quickly. When it
lies there, and it just bakes, that is when there is a problem. I have no doubt that is the case.
David Biren: I’m just trying to alleviate a problem.
Randy Wasson: Again, if they are maintained, they work very well.
Susan Brown Otto: Did I understand you correctly to say that you couldn’t use this type of system for a
new development?
Glenn Smith: If you were to take a vacant piece of land, with a new development, now a day’s the DEC
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has higher standards, but since this is grandfathered in, you are allowed to use this as long as you want.
Susan Brown Otto: But in terms of what our code says then, with regard to a planned expansion, if you
couldn’t build something from scratch and now this is being planned to be double or tripled in size….
Glenn Smith: The SPEDES permit, the discharge is not being changed here. If they were to put 1,000
people here, and they have a 10,000 gallon discharge per day, that change would require a modification.
They would make you upgrade. If you are staying within the SPDES limits, as they say they are going
to do, the DEC has no requirement of an upgrade as long as it is maintained.
Daniel Gettel: Any other comments from the board? I do have a couple of concerns since you are
talking about approaching the Health Department with some of these. Do you have a plan for feeding
the children? Assuming we were to approve this for this year, how are you going to feed the children?
The Health Department, I understand, is not on board with importing food from the other camps
affiliated with this one.
Randy Wasson: You are telling me something I am unaware of.
Daniel Gettel: I would like some indication from the Health Department that they would be willing to
go along with this, assuming we are willing to go along with it, that they would actually entertain this. It
is my understanding that the other facilities that this camp owns are over taxed. Those kitchens can’t
supply food for this camp. Also, it is my understanding that the Health Department is not in favor of the
children living in the bungalows for this season. Can you get some indication from the Health
Department that if we were to consider this for this year, which would be a temporary fix, they would be
willing to go along with this? Have you made any applications to the Health Department for this
submission with the children using the bungalows and using the camp?
Randy Wasson: There has been discussion but no formal submission. I have had conversations with
Carol Marino. They never related their reluctance to allow that to me.
Daniel Gettel: I raise the concerns simply because it is apparent that we need more information from the
Health Department. As we go forward I do think that is something that needs to be addressed to make
sure we are not just approving something tonight that is temporary in nature, which the Health
Department isn’t going to go along with. The season is fast approaching. Are there any other comments
from the board?
Steve Simpson: Has there been any change to the existing bungalows? Has anything been done as far
as what is going to be built this year?
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Randy Wasson: No. The intention is to construct the kitchen, the shul, the dormitories, the mikva, and
the new campus. They want to start that as soon as is practical for them.
Steve Simpson: Are they still going to use the old bungalows for counselor’s families moving forward?
I know originally they were going to have counselors on site living in the bungalows with their families.
Randy Wasson: That is still the intention. That has not changed. They need housing for the staff. The
dormitories are not suitable for that.
Steve Simpson: My feeling on it again is that they are walking a fine line. They are on the fence with
the Town Code. A preexisting - nonconforming entity. If it is going to be a bungalow colony, an
expansion of a bungalow colony, it can’t be done. Here it is going to be a camp and a bungalow colony.
I am having a hard time grasping that.
Randy Wasson: It’s not going to be a camp and a bungalow colony. Bungalow colonies are typical
rental situations. These are counselors. They are employed by the camp and they are not renting the
bungalows. I think that may be the distinction. It’s not a rental situation.
Steve Simpson: There was discussion about other camps that are like this. We are Bethel. We are not
the Town of Fallsburg, not the Town of Thompson. We do have our code. Again, my take is if it is
going to be a school or a camp that those bungalows should come down when the camp doors open, with
the exception of a couple if they are for maintenance purposes. I am still looking at it as the bungalows
are going to be in use for families whether they are counselors or not. I don’t see it being a camp. It is a
real clear indication it is an elaborate bungalow colony. It doesn’t conform to the code. That is my take
on it. I really haven’t seen anything to make me change my mind on it.
Randy Wasson: I don’t know how to change your mind. It is a bungalow colony now. The units were
rented last year. In this case it’s all organizational affiliations with their families as the case may be and
they are there and they are working or affiliated in the teaching or whatever their function may be with
the schools/camps. It is not an expansion of a bungalow colony. I understand what you are saying, but
it’s not, it is a change of use.
Steve Simpson: I just want to make it clear, and move forward. If it is a camp and the bungalows go
away, I don’t see a problem. With regards to the code 345-36 Section B, in my mind it is a mixture. I
am not going to be receptive to it.
Daniel Gettel: Glenn, I believe your comments also had something to do with the water system also.
Glenn Smith: The Health Department rule is that it has to be a fairly extensive plan and engineering
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White Lake, NY 12786
report.
Randy Wasson: The plan is done. The pump test is done. There is adequate water. We just need to
send it to the Health Department
David Slater: A follow-up to Steve’s question. You mentioned you are going to have campers,
counselors, and now you just brought in a whole new mix which is counselors with families. Are these
families going to be cooking in these bungalows?
Randy Wasson: No.
David Slater: No cooking, okay. What is the occupancy going to be? You can say how many campers
will be there, how many counselors will be there. Can you tell us how many people each counselor will
bring in? What is the overall occupancy? It will then vary.
Randy Wasson: Right. We have provided an occupancy schedule for both this year and future, after
this year for all of the existing bungalows. Some are families, some are single men, and some are just
husband and wife. The bottom line on that though is we are saying 138. That is based on the numbers
and what the sand filter will handle based on typical design numbers. We are limited. The population
could be 100 or 200, but we are limited on the 5,500 gallons per day, the DEC SPDES permit. I can’t
give you exact numbers, but that is what is going to govern this. The other part of that is how we will
know. We have a meter on the water supply and the meter gets read daily.
David Slater: That can easily be skirted too.
Jacqueline Ricciani: The only thing I want to add for the record since there was that discrepancy with
the public hearing notice and the time of the public hearing is that I took note that when the motion was
made to close the public hearing the time was 7:58 pm. That is more than 10 minutes after the latest it
was stated to begin, giving people ample time to make their comments.
Randy Wasson: I apologize to the board. I think what we did was we took a sample letter.
Daniel Gettel: We have done that in the past. We sometimes stack them at 15 minute intervals. You
may have had a notice in your office for 7:45 pm.
Randy Wasson: That may be. I apologize to the board.
Daniel Gettel: Also for the record we did reach out to the County for a 239 review since it is located
within 500 feet of Horseshoe Lake Road. We did not receive any comment back from them so that is a
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wash. The 30 days has passed. Randy, I think it is clear from the comments tonight that you have a
little bit of homework to do with the Health Department before we are all comfortable moving forward
on this. I think that is where we are. Keep running everything past Glenn.
Randy Wasson: Do you want a copy of the correspondence or should I copy just Glenn?
Daniel Gettel: You can email it to BJ; she will make sure it is distributed to the board. I do think it is
better as you proceed that you address your comments to Glenn and the board get copies of everything.
Then it becomes part of the public record.
Jacqueline Ricciani: Do you have any idea how long it will take you to get that information and if you
will be ready to be on the agenda for next month? Now that the public hearing is closed this board has
62 days to make its final decision and I am going to presume if you are not ready in 62 days you would
waive that requirement.
Randy Wasson: That is fair. I would like to be on the agenda for the next meeting.
2) Application for a Special Use Permit to construct a Shul at 86 West Shore Road, known as
Bethel Tax Map #: 22-1-28, proposed by Khal Divrei Chaim. (Wasson)
Daniel Gettel: Has anything changed? I know we reviewed this at the last meeting.
Randy Wasson: We just addressed Glenn’s comments, basically. We moved a road a little bit, we
cleaned up the drainage some.
Daniel Gettel: There were a couple of minor questions. The problem last month was that the Zoning
Board had to reach a decision, and they had just reached a decision and the paperwork came out the day
before our meeting. We didn’t all have a chance to review it. Are there any comments from the board
on this application? Everyone has had a chance to review the Zoning Board minutes. If anyone needs
any clarification from Jacy, she was at the meeting as was I. I think it is pretty clear the Zoning Board
paved the way for them to proceed with this application. The next step for them is to have a Public
Hearing.
Motion to schedule a Public Hearing for this application for 7:30 pm at the June 10th meeting by
Susan Brown Otto, second by Mike Cassaro.
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All in favor – 7
Opposed – 0
Agreed and carried
Daniel Gettel: BJ, I believe we have to do a County 239?
BJ Gettel: No, we don’t. It is more than 500 feet off a county road. West Shore Road is not a County
Road. It is a town road.
Daniel Gettel: I was thinking Horseshoe Lake Road. We do not need a County 239 then.
3) Application for a Special Use Permit for a Boat Display and Sales Lot located at 1063 State
Route 17B, known as Bethel Tax Map #: 38-2-89, proposed by Boat Wise, Inc. (Payne)
Daniel Gettel: This item was originally scheduled as item #3, but was removed from the agenda. The
applicant requested it be removed from tonight’s agenda.
4) Conceptual application for a Special Use Permit and Site Plan Review located at 1459 State
Route 17B (Old Bank of America), known as Bethel Tax Map#: 37-3-1, proposed by TransHudson Management Corp. (Dates)
Daniel Gettel: Michael Weeks is here as our Commercial Project Engineer. He will be reviewing this
application.
Justin Dates – Maser Consultants (presenting).
Daniel Gettel: Some people on the Planning Board have seen this proposal. It has been kicking around
for a number of months. I do appreciate that you brought it to the Planning Board at this time even
though it is conceptual in nature. This is an application for a Dunkin’ Donuts to be located at the former
Bank of America building. There are two existing problems the Bank of America building had that
predated the zoning change. The first is the property will be connected into the town sewer district,
assuming the Town Board goes along with the proposal to let this property connect with town sewer.
Having access to town sewer the property would have to be 0.5 Acres in size minimum. At this time it
is 0.45 Acres in area, but then again it predates zoning. Jacy I think we are in agreement that since it is
an existing lot, which existed prior to the change in zoning, that it will be permitted. A variance is not
required for the lot size.
Web page: www.town.bethel.ny.us
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Jacqueline Ricciani: I would agree with that.
Daniel Gettel: There is also a second question; this is really the reason they are here, so we can get the
formalities out of the way first. The second thing is that the Bank of America building presently, we
should stop calling it that, but that is what we call it, is presently 6.28 feet off the road bounds of Schultz
Road. One of my concerns with the map is that there is a section in the zoning code. Under Article 4,
Supplemental Bulk Regulations, Section 345-14 talks about yard regulations, paragraph “A” reads “Side
yard of corner lot. The side street setback line of any corner lot shall not be less than 1/2 of the depth of
the minimum front yard required on any adjoining lot fronting on a side street”. And paragraph “E”
reads “Front yard of corner lot. The front yard of any corner lot shall be established on the wider of the
two streets abutting said lot, except that where the widths of the two abutting streets are equal, then the
front yard may be established on either street”. What the code is saying in this instance is that State
Route 17B is the wider of the two streets. It is a primary gateway to the Town of Bethel. That street
setback is considered to be the front yard. Schultz Road therefore becomes the side yard and the side
yard can be as little as half of the depth of the minimum front yard. So that becomes 12.5 feet, for the
minimum side yard setback. Like I said, I am just trying to address what’s on the map. The map shows
it needs a variance for the front yard. But again, common practice in the Town is that as long as you
don’t increase a nonconformity which existed before the zoning change, and we don’t expect you to
move the building since it was in existence before the zoning was changed and it was permitted all these
years, which is the setback, it is allowed to remain. Now you are proposing an addition to the building
off the back, away from Route 17B, which I believe, you are considering being approximately 600
square feet?
Justin Dates: Yes, between the drive up area and the back.
Daniel Gettel: The way I interpret the zoning is that as long as you don’t increase the nonconformity,
not necessarily the lot coverage, but the setback itself, you are allowed to put an addition on the back as
long as you don’t get closer to Schultz Road. Jacy, I think we are in agreement on that after reading that
section.
Jacqueline Ricciani: Right, if you are not enlarging the nonconformity.
Daniel Gettel: The nonconformity being the setback itself. The map reads now that two variances are
required. I don’t believe variances are required because it predated to the change in zoning and was
permitted before the zoning change. I do like the fact that you are eliminating the parking that the bank
formally had between the building and Schultz Road. That was always a little tight, and backing out of
a parking space onto Schultz Road was never a good idea. Those were handicap spaces. If you could
just walk us through the proposal, I have seen it before but I don’t want to do the presentation for you.
Web page: www.town.bethel.ny.us
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845-583-4350 Ext 15
845-583-4710 (F)
Town of Bethel
Planning Board
PO Box 300, 3454 Route 55
White Lake, NY 12786
Justin Dates: This is the corner lot on Schultz Road. It shares the boundary with our western property
line. Route 17B shares our northern property line. The existing bank facility is about 1,200 square feet.
We are looking to expand it 600 square feet, so at a total we are just over 1,800 square feet in building
area. We are proposing a Dunkin’ Donuts as mentioned. The current site is serviced by an existing well
and septic. We would be seeking to maintain the existing well for water supply. As mentioned we are
asking to tie into the municipal sewer system. From where we are in this lot there is a sewer manhole up
at the intersection of Route 55 and Route 17B that we would be looking to connect to. An outside user
agreement with the town board is what we would need to undertake for allowance for that hookup as
well. As mentioned right now the whole frontage of Schultz Road is basically an open pavement access
into the parcel. We would look to better channelize access into the site for the drive thru and our
parking and then existing well on the site as well. That sums it up.
Daniel Gettel: Just for the record I do believe you did reach out to one of the adjoining property owners.
There is a vacant parcel that would have benefited this project, but that parcel is not available.
Justin Dates: I believe the owner did seek that.
Daniel Gettel: That does factor into the minimum lot size. And the thought behind that is you did look
to increase the lot size, but it just wasn’t available, that is my understanding. It is also my understanding
that they don’t make donuts at this type of Dunkin’ Donuts anymore. That would limit the size of the
building and what you would need as far as a kitchen.
Justin Dates: Yes, there is no food production. Everything is brought to the facility. With me tonight is
Duncan Cameron he is a construction manager with Dunkin’ Donuts, so if there are any operation type
questions he could address them.
Daniel Gettel: I don’t want to speak for the board at this junction. I do want you to work closely with
Michael (Weeks). Michael is going to review this as far as conformity to the zoning, and what you need
to do. Are there any questions from the board?
Susan Brown Otto: I do. I was wondering about the degree or standardization of the designs of Dunkin’
Donuts. I appreciate of course that this already is a preexisting building. I went to Dunkin’ Donuts in
Monticello and took a picture of it to see how it is designed. I don’t know if that is stone underneath it.
I don’t know about the signage. I know it is a bit early to be discussing signs.
Daniel Gettel: It’s been discussed, the building’s appearance.
Justin Dates: There are Dunkin’ Donuts standards. That is something we have to provide, elevations
and renderings, to the board so that we can come to an agreement on finish and signage as well.
Web page: www.town.bethel.ny.us
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PO Box 300, 3454 Route 55
White Lake, NY 12786
Daniel Gettel: My only comments at the preapplication meeting are that I get very uncomfortable in
buildings that are supposed to be a Dunkin’ Donuts, but looks like something totally different. There are
some real bad Dunkin’ Donuts buildings. I would like them to take the building and add some Dunkin’
Donuts features, while making it look appealing. I don’t necessarily need it to look like something it’s
not. We did give them some pictures of a building that looked similar to the bank building.
Susan Brown Otto: With the characteristics of what we are trying to achieve. Stone and wood....
Duncan Cameron: We are very sensitive to the existing parameters. We don’t want any flashy stuff in a
situation like this. Most likely we will look to everyone’s approval, cultured stone, hardy plank boards,
we do nice designing and we are going to fit in very well.
Michael Weeks: Are you starting over here or are you redoing the existing building.
Duncan Cameron: No, on the exterior we are going to have an addition of 600 square feet and then on
the exterior, generally speaking, there will be hardy plank, cultured stone, we try to do a mix of the two.
Justin Dates: This is the 17B Gateway, correct?
Daniel Gettel: In the past we have referred to the bank across the street as an example of something we
have approved recently. Dollar General did take one of their basic buildings and try to incorporate some
of those features into their Dollar General. Some were successful, some maybe not so much. They did
attempt to. They did present us with a plan we could live with and we could approve.
Duncan Cameron: From the corporate standpoint, Dunkin’ Donuts tries to adhere to the town and
surroundings. Sometimes franchises don’t listen.
Susan Brown Otto: What about the signage, can we talk about that now?
Daniel Gettel: Absolutely. It’s early but….
Duncan Cameron: Again, I don’t know where we are in the planning stage but there are different types
of monument signs. I know some towns have restrictions.
Daniel Gettel: We don’t permit lollipop style signs.
Duncan Cameron: Right, exactly. We try to match with the cultured stone.
Web page: www.town.bethel.ny.us
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Email: Bldgdept@libertybiz.rr.com
845-583-4350 Ext 15
845-583-4710 (F)
Town of Bethel
Planning Board
PO Box 300, 3454 Route 55
White Lake, NY 12786
Susan Brown Otto: We try to have a stone kind of base around it, a planter around it if possible. There
are a number of signs around in the Town of Bethel with stone foundations.
Duncan Cameron: The cultured stone would give a nice touch.
Daniel Gettel: Michael, as far as drainage goes, I assume they will have some kind of credit because
they are actually reducing the impervious material. What is really required for such a small lot?
Michael Weeks: Obviously it is going to be less than an Acre. It’s not going to have to go to the DEC.
Daniel Gettel: We’re not talking SWPPP. We are not talking drainage basins that would take up a lot of
space.
Michael Weeks: I assume now it is all blacktop.
Daniel Gettel: They are removing some of that. We may actually see a decrease in the runoff.
Justin Dates: I am hoping that is the case. Looking at what green we are going to be…..
Daniel Gettel: You are going to have to show that Schultz Road and the proposed driveways can
accommodate tractor trailer deliveries or box trucks that come in.
Justin Dates: That is one thing that Dunkin’ Donuts will do. Send whatever truck delivery can fit on the
site. It wouldn’t be a tractor-trailer.
Daniel Gettel: There is a loading area so a truck wouldn’t be parked on Schultz Road.
Justin Dates: That’s correct. We want that off the road.
Susan Brown Otto: I noticed the proposed dumpster there, and I took note of the dumpster at the
Dunkin’ Donuts in Monticello. One thing I would like to point out because I don’t know if you throw
out your donuts every day or not, but there are bears that live in the neighborhood. Just take that into
consideration.
Steve Simpson: I had a question, the island areas. Is that going to be grass in the areas?
Justin Dates: Yes. We are looking to establish and edge along Schultz Road. We want to work with
Michael.
Web page: www.town.bethel.ny.us
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845-583-4350 Ext 15
845-583-4710 (F)
Town of Bethel
Planning Board
PO Box 300, 3454 Route 55
White Lake, NY 12786
Daniel Gettel: I don’t think the town would object to the pavement coming off of the shoulders of
Schultz Road and some landscaping going in.
David Biren: Where the cars are going in at the drive thru? Will it be wide enough for someone to
come through with a plow to plow in the winter?
Justin Dates: The drive thru and drive out is about 10 feet and there would be an additional 12 feet
outside of that. It is essentially two lanes but one way.
David Slater: We welcome new businesses. Is what we are looking at stop and go? I see eleven (11)
parking spots, plus a handicap spot, so twelve (12) spaces. You have to figure four (4) are going to be
taken up by help. Do you feel they are just going to stop and just go?
Justin Dates: For this facility it is more drive by. I think that is the study they looked at for this site.
Daniel Gettel: I believe our zoning does allow for a store like this to come up with comparable
numbers, comparable as far as parking spaces that are required.
Michael Weeks: I was just going to ask. Are the number of parking spaces based on Dunkin’ Donuts
standards or our building code?
Justin Dates: We did review the code, and based it on … the code calls for restaurants. I think it is 1
space for every 50 square feet, so looking at the dining area we are actually going to have to add one
more space.
Michael Weeks: Does Dunkin’ Donuts have parking standards?
Mike Cassaro: By the loading area it looks like you could get two more spots.
Daniel Gettel: There is something in the zoning about parking in the front yard. You would be close
with that last parking spot. It is a good start. The word is getting out. Is there anything else from
board?
Mike Casaro: I think this is wonderful. I look forward to working with them.
Daniel Gettel: Work with Michael closely. Michael will make sure you conform to zoning and the
setbacks.
Justin Dates: Will we give him a checklist?
Web page: www.town.bethel.ny.us
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845-583-4350 Ext 15
845-583-4710 (F)
Town of Bethel
Planning Board
PO Box 300, 3454 Route 55
White Lake, NY 12786
Daniel Gettel: Sections 345 –30 and 345-31 are the two sections we normally follow. There is a section
on parking and loading, and a section on landscaping you will need to look into. Section 345-22, I
believe is landscaping. I believe you should get the Town Board involved in the sewer connection
plans. I think that should be completed and in place, at least an agreement in place, before we approve
it. That does affect the lot size.
Dan Sturm: Casey Engineering handles the sewer connections for the town.
Daniel Gettel: Thank you for coming tonight. Vicky, is there anything from the Town Board?
Vicky Vassmer Simpson: Daniel Teplesky, Superintendent of Schools, will be making a presentation on
behalf of the Monticello Central School District to talk about the budget at our next meeting.
Susan Brown Otto: At the last meeting didn’t we talk about having a tour of the shul? Didn’t we talk
about this?
Daniel Gettel: What was discussed at the last meeting is that when an application comes to the Planning
Board we do have the authority to do a site visit.
Jacqueline Ricciani: No more than three people at a time.
Daniel Gettel: You should try to coordinate that through BJ, there is not a scheduled appointment.
Jacqueline Ricciani: I do remember Randy last time saying that he will make the arrangements to get
you access to the property.
Daniel Gettel: There was no formal time or date set. BJ might be willing to try to coordinate that,
Susan, if you are interested.
BJ Gettel: After Memorial Day weekend.
Motion to adjourn by Susan Brown Otto, second by Steve Simpson
All in favor – 7
Web page: www.town.bethel.ny.us
Opposed – 0
18
Agreed and carried
Email: Bldgdept@libertybiz.rr.com
845-583-4350 Ext 15
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Town of Bethel
Planning Board
PO Box 300, 3454 Route 55
White Lake, NY 12786
Respectively submitted,
Jannetta MacArthur
Recording Secretary
8:45 pm
Web page: www.town.bethel.ny.us
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