Simon Thomson
Okay, I think that’s taping.
I hope it’s taping or we’re in trouble. Thank you for doing
this: the project… how much did I tell you about the project?
I know quite a bit about ((0:00:14.3?))
The Share project. Oh no, this is the Share project.
Share: no, I don’t know much about that one.
Alright. The Share project is looking at how people change their teaching practice: what
influences those changes, how they…
Okay.
…how they make decisions about it and so on.
Hmmm hmm.
What we’re wanting to do is follow you through for the next couple of years, not
necessarily with a big interview like this, but this is just to sort of get us started, just to sort
of see how that happens, okay.
So the first… this… what we really want to do is focus
on one particular module, and we’re looking for a module that’s really… allows you to
show your skills as a teacher and where you’ve been able to make a difference.
Do you
have a particular module in mind? Ideally one you’re going to be teaching over the next
couple of years, which may be difficult for you.
No, there probably is a module actually that is taught on the BA Journalism Award
with the Business School…
Alright.
…which I’m just starting this year.
Right.
So it will be interesting to see how that changes.
Right, okay.
So that’s definitely the one.
Page 1 of 26
Simon Thomson
Okay, so we’ll go with that one.
Do you know anything about where that’s come from,
that module?
It was written as part of the BA Journalism validation three years ago.
Right.
So I didn’t write the module, but it’s based around a newsroom idea that students
create newsworthy content and then maybe develop it in a television studio
environment.
Okay, right. Brilliant, okay. Well we’ll look at that in a minute but, just to start off with,
just to get a little bit of a background on you.
How long have you been teaching, in any
context?
I started teaching in 1999.
Right, and what was that?
That was in my National Diploma in Media at Llanelli College.
Right, okay.
And how long did you do that?
I did that for about two years.
During that time I was teaching HND as well, so I
did that for about three years in total, with the HND.
Right, okay.
And then, what happened then?
And then we decided to move to Yorkshire…
((laughs))
Right.
…like you do, and I got a job at Leeds Met.
Right, okay, so you’ve been here since…?
2001.
Right, okay. In this subject? Working and teaching the same subject?
Yeah, mostly in the area of video technologies.
Right, okay.
And the subject of the module, how long have you been teaching that?
Page 2 of 26
Simon Thomson
In various guises throughout my whole teaching career.
Right.
Video and TV has always been my specialist area, so it’s not a new subject.
Right, so it’s not a new subject but it is a new module to you.
It’s a new module and it’s a new award: it’s a different type of student than I would
normally teach, so that’s going to be interesting to see how they differentiate
between the technology based students that I currently teach, and the more
generalistic focus approach.
Okay, that sounds really interesting.
Hmmm.
((0:03:31.7?)) Okay, so, thinking about that module then and some of this you may be
actually… ‘cause you’re teaching it from September.
Yes.
Right, so you will have been thinking about it before.
Yeah.
Right.
Can you tell me a little bit about the context and where this has come from? So
it’s part of a Journalism Degree…
Hmmm hmm.
…that was validated three years ago: can you kind of take me through what’s happened
since then?
Yeah.
The Journalism Award is an award that’s shared between Innovation North
and Faculty of Business and Law, and they run all the Journalism content and we
run all the technology based content.
So they do the production based materials
with us, so they do radio production and TV production and then this news
production module which I’m running.
Right, okay.
Page 3 of 26
Simon Thomson
So they cover the Ethics of Journalism elsewhere and the Construction of
Journalism, and then we help… the module that I’m looking at will be helping them
to formulate that into a programme, so a programme that they would deliver, so like
a 60 second news programme or something. So they would gather the materials,
edit that material together and then send it out as a broadcast of a piece of news.
Okay.
And, in terms of the teaching that you’re going to do on that module, although you
haven’t taught that module before, is there any… are you drawing on any other
modules…
Yeah.
…in order to teach that?
Some of the technology delivery, especially around delivering video across the
web; I’ll be drawing on materials from modules that I’ve already run such as
Advanced Video Technologies.
Okay. One of the things we wanted to do with the paper here is just to sort of try and
draw a bit of a timeline as to how this has developed.
Hmmm hmm.
So it might be useful to just draw, you know, the things that are feeding into this module,
where it’s… and then also to look at where it’s going.
If we draw… ((0:05:47.3?))
((0:05:49.7?))
…to its delivery start?
Well, and then carrying on, so there may be other things in terms of… but decisions:
we’re wanting to really look at decision-making.
Okay.
So probably have delivery somewhere over here, so that you’ve got plenty of space for all
those decisions.
So we’ve got something like September ’09 delivery…
Page 4 of 26
Simon Thomson
’09, yeah.
…about here.
And then we’ve got my initial thoughts when I was told about it.
((laughs)) Okay. We’ll explore that.
And then I suppose that process there; and at some point here would be things like
the assessment sign-off process.
Yeah.
And in time… so at the moment where we’re on that is reviewing my current
materials.
Okay, so that’s current materials on different modules.
Yeah.
But modules that you’ve taught at the same level or across levels?
On the same level actually.
Right.
But I have taken materials across level and just either increased some of the
technical knowledge in there or decreased it or limited it.
Right.
So I do do that.
So that’s where I’m probably at, at the moment, is reviewing that,
and then the next stage for me will be to develop a delivery pattern/content.
Okay.
And, in terms of that, there’ll be a number of decisions that you’ll make…
Hmmm hmm.
…in terms of things like if you use textbooks – do you use textbooks at all?
Yeah.
Yeah. What textbook is used and what topics you covered and the order in which you’re
using… Are those your decisions or are those inherited decisions from other modules
there?
Page 5 of 26
Simon Thomson
Some of them will be inherited decisions from whatever the reading list might be in
the module, but what I tend to find is that I get students to look much wider than
that.
Right, okay.
For instance, I think from memory there’s not very many web-based references but
there’s a lot of good web-based material that can support students’ knowledge in
the area of web-delivery technology, so I shall be drawing on that.
Right.
And are you leading this module? Sorry, I should have asked if you were
leading this module.
Yes, I am.
Does anybody else teach on the module?
No, not on this one they don’t.
Right, so this is going to be entirely you.
Yeah.
And does that make a difference to you in the way that you design it?
I think what’s…
You’ve done modules with teams before.
I think what’s useful is, because this is the first time the module’s been run, it
allows a degree of flexibility and allows the module to be quite dynamic.
Right.
So that when you set the plan up, although you know you’ve got key areas that you
want to cover, it might be that when you get to the student group they really
struggle with something so you might need to spend some extra time on it.
Single
team delivered modules… single team? That’s not…
Single team. ((laughs)) Single person teams. ((laughs))
Singly delivered modules are much easier to make dynamic in that way.
Page 6 of 26
Simon Thomson
Right.
I do have another module that runs, Video Post Production, which has got a team
of four on, and you can’t be that dynamic because the experience has got to be the
same across the students.
But that module there has been designed over a
number of years anyway now, so it’s got quite a nice core delivery pattern. So
hopefully this might be similar: starts off small, then as the cohort increases… so
whereby the rigidity of the module probably needs to increase a bit.
Right, okay. What order do you make decisions? So when you’re thinking about the
decisions about how many assignments you’re going to have…
Yeah.
…what they’re going to be, what topic are you going to cover, and so on, how do you
make those decisions in terms of order?
I always start with the learning outcomes.
Right.
Well actually what I always start with is I’ll look at the learning outcomes and think,
in terms of an industrial and work based ethic, what skills might the students need
here, both theoretical and practical, in order to be able to go into a workplace
environment and say, “Oh, I know how to do that.” So I believe quite strongly that
we should be able to deliver good modules that have both employability sense,
ethical considerations, theory base that underpins their own learning, and then the
practicalities.
So I look at the learning outcomes and I always look at the
assessment first: what assessment can pull these two learning outcomes together,
or pull all four together, and then I design the learning to meet that assessment.
Okay.
So it’s driven by the learning outcomes, assessment to assess the learning
outcomes, and then your content to support the assessment.
That’s right. Hmmm hmm.
Great, okay.
Are there things that you can… I mean, when you think about the module
and what you’re going to do, what about it do you have the power to change and what do
you have to consult about, and who do you have to consult?
Page 7 of 26
Simon Thomson
In terms of the design of the delivery it’s entirely my own choice. The pattern or
the mode of delivery is not; so for instance there is one lecture and one tutorial per
group, which actually that tends to work reasonably well. I don’t have the
authority to change at this stage the learning outcomes or the content of that
module, but that’s something that I could undertake next year; as part of the
module review I could do a minor mod, make some changes if I felt was necessary.
But all the content… in terms of the actual content and the delivery, it’s entirely my
own, and the assessment.
Okay.
And the minor mods and so on, does that go to a committee, does that go to an
individual?
Yeah, the minor mods goes to a panel within the Faculty that would review the
modification of the module.
So, for instance, if I said that actually I’d want to take
all of the learning outcomes out and replace it with another, I would have to write a
justification for that; and then, as long as I don’t change more than 30% of the
module, it will go through a committee that would agree or refuse that.
Right, okay.
And how does that fit in with the course team and the course that this
belongs to?
I think that’s why we have the limit on the 30% rule because, in essence, if I’m
changing less than 30% of one module, it’s not going to have a dramatic impact of
the experience across the whole course that the students might be on.
have to justify your reason for changes anyway.
And you
Now when obviously the course
is designed, it’s designed with all those modules intact, complete, so there is
always a review process anyway that looks at, well how much has the course
changed? The course review process should look at, well how much has the
course changed, how many people have put any minor mods, has the essence of
the course changed, and so on.
But generally, if you want to adjust the module
slightly, then the minor modification route is what you’ll do, without impacting too
much on the whole experience of the course.
Right, okay. When you think about this module, do you… ‘cause you didn’t write the
module spec so you’re kind of inheriting…
Hmmm hmm.
…learning outcomes and assessment pattern presumably, is it within…?
Page 8 of 26
Simon Thomson
Well assessments generally are written 100% coursework.
Oh, okay.
So they’re fairly flexible.
So you can make them flexible.
Yeah.
Do you know what the aims of whoever wrote the module were at the time? Is it clear to
you what the module was designed to do within that course, do you know?
It was clear that the module was designed to give technical abilities to students
that are probably largely focused on Journalism.
So the idea that the module’s
delivered by Innovation North staff is that students predominantly are journalists,
so they’re interested in how they structure the content, the design of the words and
the narrative; but also with a realisation that, in this day and age, that a journalist
should have some technical knowledge and ability to be able to publish their own
content, either print based, audio based or video based, so it’s giving them those
skills to do that.
And do you feel that… was it written by somebody in Business or somebody in Innovation
or…?
It was written by somebody in Innovation.
It was a joint… within Innovation North
they identified a number of modules that they would write and design for the
validation.
Okay.
And do you feel that it’s… as you’re looking at what you are wanting to deliver to
meet the requirements that you’ve got in your head, does it match, does it meet?
I think I would probably personally put more technical content in there and I
probably will do that anyway.
But the assessment I can be fairly flexible in its
design, and the learning outcomes would, especially this year, probably meet the
requirements of the students’ needs, and also give them enough skills to be able to
take them to the next level.
Okay.
So, if we go back to the timeline…
Page 9 of 26
Simon Thomson
Hmmm hmm.
…can you sort of fill in, with a little bit more detail, the sorts of things that you’re making
decisions about…
Hmmm hmm.
…in terms of say this content? Because you’ve talked a bit more now about you’d use
more technology, bring in more technology.
Yeah.
So what sort of things – if we go on the other side of there – what sort of things are you…
in terms of the actual content?
At the moment, if I’m reviewing what materials I have and selecting a range of
technical support materials for students…
And technical in what: in video production?
So eg choosing codecs, you know, choosing a video codec.
Yeah, it’s a massive
thing, choosing which codec am I going to choose, how am I going to encode it.
And there’s… what I don’t want to do is spend a whole week on codecs, but there’s
a lot of resources that I can give them, once I maybe have given them an initial
lecture or seminar around codecs; that I can say, “Right, best thing for you to do is
look at these materials now and have a go at your own encoding.”
Okay.
So selecting a range of technical support materials is really about… what I
generally do in a lecture is give underlying theory and demonstration of a
technique, and try and show them where it’s put into practice in a real world
environment.
And then the technical support materials is about giving them
opportunities, in their own learning time, to go through that process.
Okay.
Pattern of content is where we begin that process of the selection of topics,
normally weekly.
So how would you do that? What are the influences there?
Page 10 of 26
Simon Thomson
Well what I may need to do is build up… so building up to the assessment point.
Okay.
So looking at the assessment and… so what I tend to do is I look at the
assessment as a whole and I break it down into its technical requirements, and the
theoretical understanding that I think they should be having.
That’s my phone
vibrating. Technical requirements, theoretical understanding, and employability
in terms of are these skills suitable and appropriate for the industry that they might
be going into.
And then what I would do with them is select these topics to meet
the requirements of those.
Okay.
So the topics would build up.
But what I do is I tend to prioritise all of the
requirements, so I prioritise the skills and understanding.
So I would say, “Well
you’ve got to know this: this is a fundamental requirement before we can move on
to anything else,” so that would be the first topic.
And then you’d work out which
topics you could leave towards the end; that what I tend to do is: let’s say this 14
week delivery, if I’m… anything that I deliver in week 12 pretty much, none of the
students will be able to apply it directly to the project because they’ll be well
underway, but what I can do is give them things beyond the scope of that project
and say, “Well, you won’t have time to put this in your project, but this is
something you would consider as well.” So I generally have a really, really strong
first ten weeks of topics, and then the next two weeks are generally… this is a
pattern I generally use: ten weeks of solid content that they can utilise and use
inside their project, and then two weeks of the future beyond the modules, so
discussing technologies or theories that they won’t be able to apply ‘cause they
won’t have time, but they could look at beyond the nature of my module; and then
the last two weeks is generally support, entirely support for the project.
Right, okay.
So those last two weeks are generally fairly flexible, and I use things like Extreme
for that, so normally the last two weeks are very discussion-heavy on Extreme, and
any questions they post, they become the topic of the lecture.
Okay, Extreme being the…
Page 11 of 26
Simon Thomson
Yes, the virtual learning environment.
The Institutional Virtual, yes…
And the Institution.
…just to clarify that.
I’ll write that on here if you want.
Yes, that’s probably…
Weeks 1-10…
That’ll be great, yeah.
…is topic based theories, technologies; weeks 11 and 12 are beyond the module –
just call them that – and then weeks 13 and 14 are then really driven by the
students’ need.
Great. Okay.
So when you… you talked about having a pattern that’s in one sense laid
down for you, that you have a lecture and a tutorial, so how do you make the decisions
about what is covered where? Is there a particular way you do that?
Well that’s part of this prioritising what they need.
Now I think in this module I’ve
got the lecture first and then the tutorial session, so that actually works quite
nicely because I think lectures have some value and they have a place, because
they’re a good way of getting across key items of important information to a wide
range of students without having to do that a number of times in a tutorial session.
So the lectures tend to be fairly discursive and open, so I might initially at the
beginning pose a question related to the topic.
Like for instance in some of the
advanced video modules I’d go in and say, “Right, how many of you have got a
DVD player?” “Yeah.”
“What codec would you use to encode?” Just to gauge
whether people know, whether they’ve done a bit of reading before or whatever, so
it becomes quite open.
And then I would deliver my key technical or theoretical
requirements that I think they should be understanding, and then we’d have a bit of
discussion afterwards.
Right.
Page 12 of 26
Simon Thomson
Then, to apply that, I would build a tutorial session based around applying that
theory or technique, because I truly believe that the best way to learn is by doing it.
And then, if I have another opportunity, I always get them to try and demonstrate
that back.
Okay, so when you talk about a tutorial, are they in labs or are they…?
Well, the tutorials for these would be… there’s a studio and a production room, so
they’ll have a TV studio and a production space, and the group will be split into two
groups. I think there’s about 26 in the group so there’ll be two groups of 13, and
half will be doing production room, half will be doing studio and then we’ll rotate
that.
Right.
And so all the tutorials will be practical…
Very much, yeah.
…applying.
Yes.
Okay. Where are we up to? Okay, we’ve talked about what you can and can’t change
and how you do that; can we just go back to that a little bit in terms of things that you can
change: are they always the same across any module? So within the department you
can… there are certain things that are set.
Yeah, so in any module specification, when the module specification has been
written and agreed that would have the name of the module, the learning outcomes,
for those are the things that you’re basically assessing the students on, that’s what
you’re measuring their achievement against for that module.
You also have
something called indicative content which is related to what other subjects or
things will you be covering, but you might not necessarily be assessing.
You then
have an idea of the assessments and in most of our cases it’s all coursework
based so we just put 100% coursework, but some would have 50% exam, 50%
coursework.
Right.
And when it’s 100% coursework, are you able to interpret that as two 50%
courseworks?
Yes.
Page 13 of 26
Simon Thomson
Right, so you do have flexibility.
There’s only one component of grade that goes forward to the exam board.
Okay.
So it doesn’t matter presumably then if they fail one element of that and if they
still get enough to pass all the other ((0:26:47.1?)).
Yes.
Okay.
Then you’ve also got then the reading list which can be obviously not just books,
to try and encourage staff to use other things other than just books.
Right, yeah, okay.
And that is all fixed in terms of that is what is the official structure of that module
and content.
Right.
So if you got a new module like this and you wanted to use a different textbook,
say, something had just come out or whatever, would you be able to do that without
reference back, or would you have to…?
What I would do is I would… the reading list is there just to guide students and
things to look at, but I would definitely put that as an additional reading element on
the virtual learning environment, make it clear that this is the latest edition, so they
would be better off going to this version.
And then when it came round to the
module review I would do a minor mod and get the book put in the reading list.
Okay, so you would be able to use a book that wasn’t on the reading list.
Oh yes.
Okay.
And what about the type of assignment: if you decided – and it seems unlikely
with this module – but if you decided that you wanted to do exam and coursework and
your thing said 100% coursework, would you be able to in that delivery change that?
Not officially, no.
We would still… I would be required to deliver with that
coursework assessment.
Right.
Page 14 of 26
Simon Thomson
Now I could probably develop some kind of online quiz in the virtual learning
environment which could form a component of that coursework, but I would not be
able to set up an official exam in an exam hall, that, because that would not be a
component that could have gone in to the system because it’s not fair.
Basically
that module guide sets up the data entry for our student record system, so if I put
100% coursework, that’s what they’re expecting, and it would be… The idea is the
students should be able to see the module guide to get an idea of what’s
happening; it would be a bit unfair if halfway through I said, “Oh, we’re going to
have an exam,” and they, you know, they think it’s 100% coursework.
So if you
wanted to do that it would mean changing that.
You’d have to change that in the…
In the module prep, yeah.
Right, okay. Okay, we’ve talked a little bit about your… here, what you’re bringing in
from other modules.
Hmmm hmm.
Could you just tell me a little bit about the materials that you’re planning to use and where
they’re coming from and where you’re sourcing things from?
Okay.
You can fill them in here if you want to – start another section of it if you like.
I would put here… this is materials.
So lecture materials tend to be some kind of
presentation content, so that could be a PowerPoint or there’s this really nice thing
called Prezzi…
Oh yes.
…which I like, so that’s quite nice.
But something that I can deliver with notes
attached, but then also offer… make it available to the students.
So my
PowerPoints tend to be mostly just images actually, and then I just have notes to
talk around the image, rather than lots of text ‘cause they could pick that up.
And do those… in terms of this module, do you have existing material that you use for
that?
Page 15 of 26
Simon Thomson
Yeah, I’ve probably got about 20%.
20%.
Out of… well, in fact, if there’s ten strong content lectures I’ve probably got three
or four already that I could just rejig a bit, but would probably have to create
another five or six.
Right.
And where will you get the… how will you do that? Will that be something that
you just sit down and it comes out of your head or are you drawing on other sort of
resources?
I tend to… in fact let’s say we take a topic like Newsroom Content Management, so
in the newsroom environment you wanted them to understand about storage of
video content, how they get it to share it between other people, file manage…
‘cause those are important things in that environment. Then I would probably
draw mostly on my first-hand experience, but then also try and bring some case
studies in with some examples of what the BBC practises, which those things are
fairly available.
If not just ring up a friend or something and say, “Right, tell me
what’s happening.” So I tend to…
So you’re drawing on context in the industry a lot.
Yes, yes, especially for something like that where it is very relevant that they
understand what’s happening in the industry, because if they go there and they’ve
got a completely different view of what happens, that’s not a good impression for
the employer or for them; that, you know, they need to know what is happening
currently.
So those types of things I would draw on case study material,
guidelines that the BBC set out and use those and show those. I also normally
draw on things like video clips.
Okay, and what sort of criteria do you use to choose those sorts of things?
I try… I start by looking at, “Well what have I got to try and get across in this 50
minutes, what have I got to try and get across to them?”
And I normally have
about five points that I need to cover or want to try and get across to them.
And
then I try and think about, “Well if I had a piece of content and I wasn’t there, would
this get quite a lot of information across?” So I look at that and then say, “Right,
then I can explain the detail.” So that’s how I tend to work.
Page 16 of 26
Simon Thomson
And what sort of places do you find those sorts of videos and things?
Well, at the moment ((laughs)) I’m involved in an Open Education Resources
project, but I do normally actually look on the Creative Commons search that I
always nearly start in the Creative Commons search, because then I’m happy that,
as long as I’ve used the right licence, I’ve credited the person in the PowerPoint,
that if one of these students takes this presentation, puts it on their own website,
then, you know, there aren’t any legal ramifications.
And also I do encourage the
students to do that because it’s good practice for them to realise that they can’t
just go onto Google and take a piece of video and present it to somebody else.
Good, okay.
Do you change the things that you… so if you got something from… are
they learning resources from Creative Commons or are they industry…?
Generally just artefacts, so there might be a video clip, some images, some audio,
and then in essence I suppose I create the learning object from all those artefacts.
And I change them every year.
What I’ve learned to do is create a new folder for
every year’s delivery, and instead of just copying everything across, is actually
starting afresh.
Oh right, okay.
And then going back to the ones that I said, “Oh I can use that again, I can use that
again,” and filling that in, and then when there’s any gaps I create it from… afresh.
Right.
So that’s what you’ll be doing with this or are doing with this.
Yes.
You’ve got a folder ready for that.
If you’re using somebody else’s… I mean do you use
any existing developed learning resources from anywhere else or just individual
artefacts?
I haven’t done, largely because I’ve never really found anything that I’ve been able
to just take, but I am going to try much harder now, I think because the Open
Education Resources community is getting bigger, the variety of material is
becoming much greater.
And the chances are now there will be some materials
which will be relevant and appropriate that I can use.
Page 17 of 26
Simon Thomson
Okay, good.
Moving on to how you work with the students and so on, if the focus of this
module is on the technology for supporting… is it TV production?
Yeah.
TV and radio production, okay.
How do you think… I mean you’ve already touched on
this I think: you’ve talked about the practical nature of it; do you think that’s the core to
how they’re learning?
I always believe that they need the underlying theory because when the practicality
changes, which it does in technology, they can use the theory to… I suppose the
theory is about getting them to understand how to learn in that field. So let’s take
codecs because that’s something that students really struggle with: they’d just
rather press a button and hope that it comes out right at the end, but really they
need to have a very deep and strong understanding of what a codec is doing in a
theory-based model. So the theory would tell them that, okay, they need to think
about what compression ratio it’s using; regardless of what the codec is they all
work in the same way so that is they theory of telling them how a codec works, and
then the practicalities of that is what they apply in the tutorial sessions, trying
things out: “No, that doesn’t work.” “Well, why not?” “What data rate is it
using?” It’s all the theory they apply technically.
But because when a new codec
comes along they need to understand how that fits against the theory that we set
out and looked at at the beginning.
The theory for me is the foundation upon
which they can build the technical skills but, if you have one without the other,
you’re not really in a strong position to be able to deliver.
Okay.
So what… just remind me what level are these students?
These will be Level Two.
Level Two.
So what… can you give me an example of the sort of activity they might do
in order to learn how to apply…?
Well actually, what I do with codecs is I say my six year old son can encode very
high quality video, because all he does is mess about and press X for high quality,
you know, anybody can do that: where the theory is about, well how big is that file
going to turn out to be? Is it too big to put on the web? Is it too big to download
and stream?” You know, all the variables that go with that.
thing that I would get them to do.
So that is the type of
So one of the tasks would be, in the session I
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Simon Thomson
might say, “Right, here’s a…” I’ll provide them with a piece of video, show them
the tools or the software that they can use to create and export different versions,
and then say, “Right, I want a version of that video that’s going to run off a 2megabit broadband connection, a version that’s going to run off a CD-Rom
because that has a data rate limit, one that’s going to run off my hard drive.
And
so then what they’re doing is they have to make those decisions about, “Well what
bit rate do I encode the video at? What bit rate do I do the sound at? What
compressor do I use? What size do I do it?” And that’s where they get to apply
it.
Right.
And then you said something earlier about demoing things back. Do they then
have to give their rationale for…?
Yes.
So normally I would aim to… if they’re working on something like that I
would aim to see every student.
Okay, so they’re demoing to you.
Or sometimes I would get them to come out and demo to the rest of the group. It
depends how long the task is and how long it’s going to take for me to go round to
see everybody.
Though sometimes it’s quite good just to say, “Right, you, come
and tell us what you did,” because that’s the other thing about codecs is actually
there are some wrong answers but there’s no particular one right one.
Right.
And do you find that the students… you obviously haven’t done it with this group
yet but, when you’ve done that previously, what’s the students’ response to that? Do
they…?
Most of the… if it’s me… if I go round each of them, then obviously what they want
me to do is tell them the right answer and that’s not… it’s about the understanding
of codecs, it’s about they’ve lots of different right answers, but when each student
comes out, or some samples from students, they come out and they say what they
did, that that’s actually quite a good discussion.
So for instance somebody might
choose a QuickTime movie and somebody might choose Flash and then you get
this whole discussion about, “Well why would you choose Flash over QuickTime?”
Right.
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Simon Thomson
And then you get into other discussions that, you know, the install base of Flash is
98% on all machines, like you can’t download Flash files so it’s unlikely for them to
be ripped off by other people, so you get into other fields of conversation.
So
that’s generally what happens.
Right, okay.
And that’s generally the way that you would… that the things that are not
lectures would be based around that format.
Yes, yeah, applying something, discussing, they’d have had… so they all took… I
try and give feedback in every session because then they can take that knowledge
from their experience and apply it in their final project then.
Right. Those activities that they’re doing in that non-lecture session, that tutorial, are
they individual activities or group activities?
It would depend; depends entirely on the task.
So for codecs it would be
individual: they would all have exactly the same video file to start with and then the
task would… they’d all have to create these different versions, and some would be
horrendous quality but big files, and some would be brilliant quality and small files,
and those are the things that we’d discuss.
Right, okay. When you’re starting with the sessions that you’re having, what proportion
of the work that they’re doing is like that, working with something that they’re given, and
what proportion is producing something new, do you think?
Very early on, the first four weeks is nearly always working with content that I’ve
provided.
Right, okay.
So they’re not being distracted from the task of learning a technology or a
technique by creating something.
They’re not spending half the session, “What
shall we create?” and all that. It’s clearly, “This is what you’ve been given: this is
what you’ve got to do with it,” and then…
Do something with it. But a lot of what they’re doing with it is creating something
different, a different version of it.
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Simon Thomson
Yes, yeah.
And then towards, you know, from week six, then they’ll begin the
process of developing their own product. So I will ask them maybe to bring
content in.
Okay.
And that, developing their own product, is that their final project or is that…?
Yeah.
Yeah, so it’s focused then on them contributing to their final assessment…
Yeah.
Hmmm hmm.
…rather than doing something as an exercise.
Yeah.
It then becomes the idea, “Well, you’ve got to create this for your project
anyway, so create it now in this week.” I help… it’s always like me helping them
plan their timing because it’s very difficult for them to do that without some
guidance.
So I say, “Right, by this week you should have shot at least one
interview, so bring that in, and we’re going to edit that and try lots of different ways
to encode it maybe.”
Okay, right. What do you do – I think you’ve already talked about some of these things –
but in terms of approaches that you use to help the students actually learn the subject?
You’ve talked about having practical stuff, you’ve talked about giving feedback, quite
rapid feedback at that moment.
Are there any other things that you do that are designed
to sort of support the students’ learning.
I’ve got… on the VLE I tend to use quick self-tests for students, so that they… in
essence they demonstrate all of their knowledge to the development of their
product, because that’s a real-world scenario, that’s how people demonstrate their
technical abilities, is by delivering a technical product.
But I do have self-tests but
I don’t require them to undertake them. I say there’s an advantage by doing it
because they’ll have a deeper understanding, and you’d be able to measure how
much knowledge you’re attaining and picking up, so I do have a number of selftests that they can undertake. I think in the other module I’ve got about three and I
think three’s about right, you know, to see how much they know after week four,
week eight and week twelve.
Right, okay.
And they get feedback from those automatically?
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Simon Thomson
Yeah, they get feedback within the questions.
Okay.
And do you do anything particularly to support either the sort of top 20% of
students and the bottom 20% of students?
I’ve always found the discussion areas are really good for generally the low
achieving… the students that struggle, because they actually ask questions that a
lot of people want to know the answers to. So I get them to put the discussion
area in there and then I can respond and everyone gets the answer without it being
asked a thousand times.
The high end students actually they… it’s interesting is
that, ‘cause the high end students tend to email you directly.
Right, okay.
I’ve found the really good students will email me directly with, you know, some
quite challenging questions.
And what do you do with that?
Well if it’s an email response I can give an email response fairly quickly.
If it’s a
demonstration of something I would generally do a video captured screen grab of
that demonstration and then post it on to the virtual learning environment, but then
just email the student to say, “I’ve done this but I’ve put it onto Extreme.”
So if they ask a challenging question and you do an email response, would you put that
response and question up for the others, or not?
Again it depends.
If it’s particular to that student’s work, no, because sometimes
you could put things on there that no other student needs to know, and if you put it
on there they would just go, “What on earth is that about?” So it’s just a
balancing act really of saying, “Yeah, this question comes up all the time; really
everyone should need to know the answer to this,” or I’ve never been asked that
question before, and I can’t see any other student struggling with that.
Right, okay.
And do you see any trends – you’ve mentioned a couple of the trends in
terms of you answering questions people are emailing and so on – but in terms of the
activities that you do, do you find that you have to adapt those in any way for different
capabilities of students or do they all do the same?
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Simon Thomson
When I ask them to bring content to the session I always have content in case they
haven’t, but I’ll just give them a hard time.
((laughs)) Okay, fair enough.
Yeah, but I think… what did one student say?
“I really like it ‘cause you’re firm
but fair,” you know, and I think that is my approach.
And I say, “Look, I’m trying
to prepare you for when you leave here and you want to get employment.
If you
don’t bring the stuff to the table when they ask, you’re fired, you know, they don’t
give you a second chance.”
So it’s like, “Well, I’ve got some material but you
really need to think why didn’t you bring your own.”
And I say, “Look, this week
you might have just had a bad week, that’s fair enough,” you know.
But then the second week… ((laughs))
Yeah, you know, but doing it again and again isn’t… but I am a bit, I’m firm but fair I
think.
How much cooperation do you allow or encourage on the module?
In… well when we do this assessment, actually what they’re all going to do is
they’re going to do work in groups to gather content and resources, so if there’s a
group of four you might say, “Well, between the four of you you’ve got to go out
and record three interviews, but working together, so designing scripts, planning it,
shooting it, recording it and editing it, and you should all undertake at least three
roles within that process.”
And then that group will also need to then formulate
their studio show, so the four of them will manage the schedule, the editing, the
reading of the news, the inserts, the video, and the final output together. What I
generally do is get… when they’ve brought the content in I’ll ask each of them
individually to edit their versions of the interview.
So they might have gone out
and shot a 15 minute interview, but they might only be a one minute insert into the
news bulletin.
So I’d get all four of them to do that.
And then they come together
and say, “Well which one are we going to choose?”
Okay, right. And would you… I mean it sounds like there’s quite a lot of collaboration
there.
Yeah, because that’s the nature of the work.
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Simon Thomson
Do you have any concerns about plagiarism in that?
I do… I have had group project work before and, within that, I’ve used peer
assessment, which is quite an interesting process to undertake.
But I can
honestly say that I’ve never really had… because I see the students, the team see
the students every week and the development, you soon get to see what each
person is doing and whether they’re achieving or not.
And I’ve always said to
groups that they shouldn’t feel under pressure to carry people, you know. If
there’s people in that group that aren’t pulling their weight they should come to me,
because it’s not fair for the student to go directly to one of their peers and say…
Some of them are that confident that they will do that, but I’m always happy to step
in and say, “Right, let’s sit down as a group and I want you to show me individually
what you’ve done.”
And that is always… normally a requirement for their
submission; so when they do the final product, the newsroom, they’ll also be
required to hand in an individual portfolio of material that they’ve created.
If there was no issue with plagiarism and it wasn’t a risk at all, would you do the same
thing; would you do anything differently?
No, I think it’s good practice for them to work in a team but to be able to prove what
they’ve done individually.
So I think it’s good practice to say, “Right, you’re
working as a group but everything that you create, you should keep and record,”
because quite a lot of the time they may do some work on something but it might
not get included in the project and so it’s important for them to be able to say, “I
did all this work as well.” So, especially at Masters level, what I do at Masters
level with the group project is they submit a group piece of work and that is
normally worth about 30 or 40% of the mark and then they hand in an individual
portfolio of evidence that’s worth 60 or 70%. So I tend to start that encouragement
at Level Two.
Okay, good.
Do you think that there’s any particular reasons that you can point to that
students fail to learn the video production, the core essence of the module?
I… the biggest reason that students don’t get to the end of the module and pass is
they don’t turn up.
Right.
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Simon Thomson
If a student turns up to 80% they should be able to pass the module, and I think
that should be a fair design, you know. If you’ve put 80% commitment into a
module, you should be able to get a pass.
If you’ve put in 100% in and then
student centred learning time, that’s where you get the Firsts. So the only reason,
in my experience, that students haven’t passed my module is when they just don’t
turn up so, you know, attendance is less than 20%.
Right, okay.
And do you have – I mean again difficult I guess for this module because
they haven’t done it yet, but in terms of the other modules that are feeding into this –
evidence through the way that… I mean you’ve got the assessment, how they take that
on, so in terms of the skills that have been embedded, that they’ve learned, do you find
that they’re picked up later on in other things?
The skills that they’ve developed?
Yes, of the learning here.
Oh, yeah absolutely, most definitely, especially because, in the Final year, most of
our students engage in a substantial project, where really they pull together all the
skills that they’ve been taught.
And I always see where the work that’s happened
at Level Two has influenced the work in their final year, especially in relation to
video codecs, you know, so a lot of them do web based video and they’re just
already aware of that process and it’s not an issue that’s stopping them from
getting their product into that space because we’ve already covered it.
Right, good. Thank you very much. That’s really useful.
Have I missed anything? Is
there anything that you feel that you want to add or that I should have asked about this
module and how you’re developing it?
I don’t think so.
Because it’s new it’ll be… I’m very much used to working with
students that have an interest in technology.
So this will be interesting because
these students have an interest, a focus in Journalism. So it will be interesting
and challenging for me to get them to see a different perspective maybe of, “Well,
okay, so you’re predominantly journalists but having an understanding of the
technology can really benefit your journalism.”
And I think that’s the way that I’ve
got to try and play the module: not go in there heavy handed about, “Technology is
the answer to all your problems,” but…
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Simon Thomson
So do you think you’re going to have to change the resources that you are bringing to
this…
I think I’m going to have to…
…because of that?
…contextualise their use.
So whereas I might have used a cinematic case study
to demonstrate a technique, I’m going to have to find a more journalistic case
study maybe.
And documentaries are quite good, so they can see how journalism
can translate into, these days, documentaries into the big screen so…
Absolutely.
Good, okay.
Do you have anything paper-based about this that I could
take away to add to that?
I take the… you want the module spec, yeah?
Yeah. That’s lovely, thank you.
It’s called TV Journalism, if you need the module name.
Shall I print it off?
That’ll be great, yes, thank you.
‘cause I’ve got my own printer.
You’re lucky...
((Recording finishes at 58:30))
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