06 March 2003 Page 1 of 147 THURSDAY, 6 MARCH 2003 ____ PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY ____ The House met at 14:03. The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation. ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000. NOTICES OF MOTION The CHIEF WHIP OF THE LARGEST MINORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that I intend moving the following motion: That the House - (1) notes that the Hon T S Yengeni resigned from the National Assembly on Wednesday, 5 March 2003; and 06 March 2003 Page 2 of 147 (2) censures Mr Yengeni for his conduct in abusing the protection of the Chair and the Rules with the deliberate intention of misleading the House. Ms C DUDLEY: Madam Speaker, I shall move on behalf of the ACDP: That the House debates the issue of water fluoridation plans in South Africa, which are going ahead although the Water Research Commission has not completed its research on this issue and serious health concerns raised. ACHIEVEMENT BY LOCAL HOTELS (Draft Resolution) Mr J DURAND: Madam Speaker, I move without notice: That the House - (1) notes that - have been 06 March 2003 (a) two Page 3 of 147 South African hotels made the Top 10 in Travel and Leisure magazine's annual "Very nice values" readers' poll; and (b) the MalaMala Game Reserve reached third place, while the Cape Grace Hotel in Cape Town reached fifth place; and (2) congratulates outstanding enhances these two achievement South Africa's local and hotels believes popularity as on this that this one of the favourite tourist destinations in the world. Agreed to. LEARNER'S UNPAID SCHOOL ACCOUNT (Member's Statement) Prof S concern M MAYATULA reports (ANC): regarding Madam an Speaker, 18-year old we note learner, with Lunga Komani of Lungiso High School in Humansdorp, whose unpaid school account of R50 has been handed over to debt 06 March 2003 Page 4 of 147 collectors. It is further reported that this amount has since accumulated to R80. The rights of learners to education is a human right which is enshrined in our Constitution. It is a right which teachers, parents and especially school governing bodies must uphold. This ANC-led Government passed the South African Schools Act, which provides, among other things, that no learner should be turned away from school simply because he or she cannot afford to pay. Furthermore, it makes provision for parents and learners to be exempted from paying school fees in circumstances where they cannot pay, more so in Lunga Komani's case since his mother has passed away and he obviously has to fend for himself. We therefore call on school governing bodies and everybody concerned to utilise our instruments created by the ANC Government learners Lunga to from Komani's ensure poor are that inalienable communities restored. are We rights guaranteed further call of and on all that those parents who can afford to meet their financial obligations to do so diligently and unselfishly. MTN MANAGEMENT BUYOUT DEAL 06 March 2003 Page 5 of 147 (Member's Statement) Mr N S BRUCE management (DP): buyout Madam deal Speaker, suggest reports that of Government the is MTN using pensioners' resources to enrich business cronies unduly and in breach of good corporate governance. The public debt commissioner has given a R4 billion loan to MTN managers to buy Transnet's 18% of the cellphone operator at a premium over market price. This is both unprecedented and unprincipled. As Transnet could not sell this interest on the market, Government has shifted the burden from its dubious transport undertaking to its pensioners. Corporate managers are rewarded legitimately if they add value or assume risk. The MTN managers have done neither. They are the beneficiaries of preferment at what could be pensioners' undue expense. If the MTN share price rises, they will become obscenely rich. If the price falls, the pensioners will carry the can, for the loan won't be repaid. Nedbank directors who stumbled last year over criticism of their purported extravagance must, after MTN's preferment, be amazed at their own moderation. I suggest that justice 06 March 2003 Page 6 of 147 would be served if the newly enriched MTN executives were to offer the position of public affairs spokesman to Mr Tony Yengeni, who has taken this House so much into his confidence. [Applause.] TRANSFUSION OF HIV-INFECTED BLOOD (Member's Statement) Dr U ROOPNARAIN (IFP): Madam Speaker, last year a 13-year old boy, Johan Stoop, underwent an operation on his leg. In the process he lost a lot of blood, which warranted him getting a blood transfusion. It has transpired a year later that the blood used on him was HIV-positive and he has since been infected with HIV. This is not good news coming from two health facilities, the SA Blood Transfusion Services and Pretoria Academic Hospital. They are supposed to have exhaustive measures to ensure hygienic transfusions. We hope that there is going to be prompt action to ensure that this state of affairs does not reoccur. 06 March 2003 Page 7 of 147 APPEAL TO COMMUNITY TO ACQUIRE ID DOCUMENTS AND BIRTH CERTIFICATES (Member's Statement) Mr W M SKHOSANA (ANC): Madam Speaker, in the past year, the President made a call to all South Africans to join hands in efforts to push back the frontiers of poverty. Each section and department in the Government has to develop a plan that will contribute to the nation's effort. Pensions for senior citizens and people with disabilities in our country, and social grants for children under eight years of age, for now, are among such efforts to fight poverty among our people. Many of our people are still not able to access what problems. identity is rightfully theirs because Primary among those problems documents for senior citizens is and of the several issue people of with disabilities, and birth certificates for children. The central department which addresses this problem is the Department of Home Affairs. I call on all people in the Moses Kotane municipality to go to Home Affairs offices to seek assistance on the matter. 06 March 2003 Page 8 of 147 The centrality of the Department of Home Affairs cannot be overemphasised. As members of this House we need to mobilise our people to go and get identity documents and birth certificates. The staff in the Department of Home Affairs needs to be alerted to this fact. We are making a special call to the members of staff of the Department of Home Affairs to go the extra mile in an effort to push back the frontiers of poverty. Let our people access what is rightfully theirs. [Applause.] CALL TO METRORAIL TO IMPROVE PASSENGER SAFETY IN TRAINS (Member's Statement) Mr C R REDCLIFFE (New NP): Madam Speaker, the New NP is shocked that another train passenger, Mr David Dunston, was brutally attacked in a Metrorail train on Tuesday. This comes after the Cape High Court ruled in February that Metrorail and the Minister of Transport must ensure passenger safety on trains as it is their legal duty to protect the lives of train commuters and that the onus is not on the police to protect passengers. 06 March 2003 The New NP Page 9 of 147 finds it unacceptable that Metrorail have indicated that they want to appeal against the court order. There is no question about their responsibility to ensure the safety of commuters. If Metrorail does not take the necessary steps to improve train safety, they could be faced with thousands of civil cases against them at an astronomical cost. announcement by The the New NP, national however, deputy welcomes commissioner of the the police, Mr Andre Pruis, that the police will implement the provision of 21 mobile units to help ensure the safety of train passengers. This should be done as a matter of urgency. Co-operation between Metrorail and the police can ensure that South African trains are once again a safe and popular mode of transport. The New NP calls on Metrorail to comply with the court order and to improve train safety because, for thousands of people, this is the only available means of transport and they have a right to commute in safety. [Applause.] The SPEAKER: Hon members, there is far too much noise in the House and far too many meetings are taking place. 06 March 2003 Page 10 of 147 CENTRALISED PENSION PAYPOINTS (Member's Statement) Prof L M MBADI (UDM): Madam Speaker, the social grant beneficiaries in the Eastern Cape have been experiencing mammoth problems since the outsourcing of pension payments to CPS and AllPay. They claim they were better off under the departmental arrangements service with would providers regard to officials. rather do not the Those that bank banks. These remain with inform beneficiaries dates and the have venues. timeously Consequently beneficiaries flock to one point, with disastrous emotional consequences when they are turned away. In most cases service providers do not have accurate numbers per paypoint and bring insufficient funds, to the disappointment centralise of many paypoints beneficiaries. brings The hardships tendency to to many beneficiaries, especially elderly women and the disabled, who have to walk long distances. These walks sometimes are through small forests or bushes. On their return they face the risk of being robbed. 06 March 2003 Page 11 of 147 Centralisation results in long queues, exacerbated by the nonavailability of facilities and resources such as help desks, pay halls, toilets and water. CAPE TOWN UNICITY OFFICIALS (Member's Statement) Mr B M SOLO opportunity (ANC): to Madam welcome the Speaker, let me take this decision of the Cape Town Unicity Council to appoint the first African city manager, Mr Wallace Mgoqi. I further congratulate Mr Mgoqi on his appointment to this position. I firmly believe that he will utilise his skills and experience and serve the people of Cape Town with distinction. Mr Mgoqi and the Unicity of Cape Town have started on the right foot in turning the tide by cutting his salary and freeing resources to be used for development, unlike the DA appointee, a certain Mr Maydon, who earned R1,4 million. Mr Mgoqi took a salary cut which gives him less than half of this amount and reflects his commitment to the principles of Batho Pele, to serve the people and contribute in the struggle to push back the frontiers of poverty. [Applause.] 06 March 2003 During its resources Page 12 of 147 short-lived to a point tenure, where the the DA abused ANC-New NP council alliance partnership now has the serious problem of tackling the challenge of ensuring the city's financial sustainability. The mayor of Cape Town further demonstrated her commitment to fighting poverty together with the people of Cape Town by ensuring through her listening campaign that every citizen of Cape Town contributes to how the budget and the IDP process of Cape Town should be run. We call upon all city managers and mayors to learn from this: Put the people first by ensuring effective service delivery and development, particularly in the previously disadvantaged communities. I thank you. [Applause.] NEED FOR MORAL COURAGE (Member's Statement) Mr L M GREEN (ACDP): Madam Speaker, in 1994 our nation elected to have a democratic society. As in cricket, we very soon became major league players on the international scene. Currently we are seeking to play umpire in the USAIraq issue. Yet, like every team, we have our Achilles' 06 March 2003 Page 13 of 147 heel, in that we disregard the weaker players at our own peril. Such is our situation with regard to Zimbabwe. The rule of law and the rights of democracy are rapidly eroding in Zimbabwe. [Interjections.] Yet we have become spectators on the sidelines, blindfolded as the demise of our neighbour state takes place before us In South Africa we are also facing great obstacles - such issues as crime, corruption, bad service delivery, lethargy and complacency towards a moral commitment to lead our nation out of the grip of social despair. South Africans locally and around the world desire a leadership that will put our domestic concerns in order. The ground rules have been established and we need to deliver. It is time for us to show moral courage and to demonstrate that we are a nation with a future under the divine leadership of God. We are blessed with a people who show keen ability to build a nation skilled in various types of expertise. All that is required is a domestic vision and a leadership social presence ills activities. such to as unleash poverty, this potential unemployment and and fight criminal 06 March 2003 Page 14 of 147 Let us not, like our national cricket team, wait for the rain to determine our future. We have all the right conditions to achieve our goals, but we need to focus and build on our strengths, primarily from a domestic point of view. Instead of creating the right conditions ÿ.ÿ.ÿ. [Time expired.] MINIMUM WAGES FOR FARMWORKERS (Member's Statement) Mr C AUCAMP (AEB): Madam Speaker, in his very first state of the nation address in 1999, President Thabo Mbeki made mention of certain unforeseen consequences of the labour laws that needed attention. One does not need to be a prophet to foresee that the new law on minimum wages for farmworkers that comes into operation at the end of this month will definitely have devastating unforeseen consequences, not only for the farming industry, but also for farmworkers. [Interjections.] Let me state it clearly, Madam Speaker: The AEB is in favour of a minimum wage for any worker anywhere in South Africa. 06 March 2003 Page 15 of 147 Die Bybel sê immers, die arbeider is sy loon werd. Dit is egter die ``one size fits all''-benadering van die nuwe wet wat nie ruimte maak vir die talle onmisbare determinante in die landboubedryf nie, wat hersien moet word. Die gebrek aan die voorsiening vir meriete, vir geskooldheid en vir posverantwoordelikheid ondermyn produktiwiteit en ondernemingsgees by werkers. Die slegs 10%-aftrekking vir behuising en vir rantsoene gaan die standaard daarvan laat daal tot nadeel van die werkers. Navorsing deur die Sagtevrugte Produsente Trust toon dat die minimumloon van R800 per maand byna 60% arbeidsverlies gaan beteken. Dit sal nie wees as gevolg van afdankings nie, maar weens bankrotskappe en strukturele veranderinge. So kan ek voortgaan. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.) [Indeed, the Bible says that the labourer is worthy of his hire. However, it is the ``one size fits all'' approach of the legislation, which does not leave room for the numerous indispensable determinants in the agricultural industry, that should be reviewed. The lack of provision for merit, for skill and for post responsibility is undermining productivity and the spirit of enterprise among workers. 06 March 2003 Page 16 of 147 The mere 10% deduction for housing and for rations will cause the standard of these to drop to the detriment of the workers. Research by the Deciduous Fruit Producers' Trust shows that the minimum wage of R800 per month will mean a loss of labour of almost 60%. This will not be as a result of dismissals, but owing to bankruptcies and structural changes. I could continue in this fashion.] The AEB calls on the Minister to place a moratorium on the commencement of the Act, in order to make certain necessary amendments; otherwise you will have to apply damage control again in two years' time, because of the clearly unforeseen consequences. I thank you. ATTACK ON CHIEF JUSTICE (Member's Statement) Mrs S V KALYAN (DP): Madam Speaker, the ANC's support for the unsavoury actions of Zimbabwe's government continues. ANC MPL Dumisani Makhaye's attack on South Africa's Chief Justice Chaskalson and eight other Southern African judges 06 March 2003 Page 17 of 147 for expressing their concern at the arrest of Zimbabwean judges Chief is ill-considered Justice and other and dangerous. judges of He hiding accused behind the their independence and instinctively defending elements of the Zimbabwean judiciary who thought they were above the law. The judges pointed out that the usual procedure when judges, including those in Zimbabwe, face criminal charges is to hold an independent inquiry, followed by impeachment if the allegations are found to be true. Instead, Zimbabwean judges are being arrested and tried while they are still sitting judges. This amounts to intimidation by the state. department Mr in Makaya approves KwaZulu-Natal is of being that. His former investigated for corruption. Is this why he casts aspersions on our judges? The ANC must repudiate this dangerous man. [Applause.] The SPEAKER: I apologise. I omitted the ANC. ANC, it is your turn to make a member's statement. DAMAGE CAUSED BY RAIN, WHIRLWINDS AND TORNADOES (Member's Statement) 06 March 2003 Nksz N Page 18 of 147 MAHLAWE zidlulileyo (ANC): Somlomo, kwezi izitshingitshane ntsuku zemvula zimbalwa nenkanyamba zitshabalalise izindlu, imfuyo nezikolo kwinqila yaseOliver Tambo neChris Hani, kunye nesithili sase King Sabatha Dalindyebo. Iingxelo ezingaqinisekiswanga zithi kuye kwakho umhlali othe waphulukana nomphefumlo wakhe. Uluntu ngokubanzi kodwa ezenkcubeko luyakwazi yokuba alukwazi nenzululwazi ukuqikelela ingqikelelo nasezilalini ukuyilawula imo yemo ukwenzela kunye yezulu. yezulu nolwazi Kubalulekile yezulu into imo ikwazi yokuba enje, lwemveli ke into ukufikelela abantu bakwazi ukuzilungiselela iimeko ezilolu hlobo. Sithabatha eli balahlekelwa thuba ke zizindlu sivakalisa nempahla uvelwano zabo, kwabo sinethemba bathe lokuba uRhulumente wabantu uya kuthabatha amanyathela okuncedisana nabo bathe bafumana eli lishwa, bakwazi ukuba baqhubekeke nobomi babo. Sihlaba ikhwelo kuluntu ngokubanzi ukuba lufake isandla ekuncediseni abo bathe bangxwelereka sesi simo sezulu ke a leboga. [Kwaqhwatywa.] statement follows.) (Translation of Xhosa member's 06 March 2003 Page 19 of 147 [Ms N MAHLAWE (ANC): Madam Speaker, in the past few days whirlwinds and tornadoes have destroyed houses, livestock and schools in the Oliver Tambo and Chris Hani district municipalities, as well as the King Sabatha Dalindyebo area. Unconfirmed reports indicate that one resident lost his or her life. The public at large cannot control this kind of weather, but culture and science and traditional knowledge can be used to forecast weather. It is therefore important that weather forecasts should reach the rural areas so that people there can make the necessary arrangements. We therefore take this opportunity to express our sympathy to those who lost houses and property, and hope that the Government of the people will take steps to help those who suffered this misfortune, so that they can carry on with their lives. We appeal to the wider public to lend a helping hand to those who suffered injuries as a result of these weather conditions. I thank you. [Applause.] LOSS OF SCHOOL TEXTBOOKS 06 March 2003 Page 20 of 147 (Member's Statement) Prince N statement E ZULU is (IFP): about Thank losses of you, Madam school Speaker. textbooks. My The Government commission's report on the financing, resourcing and cost of education in public schools has revealed that R300 million worth of textbooks are lost every year. This, the report says, is due to the nonreturn of textbooks by pupils. It has also been reported that this monetary loss is equivalent to 100 new primary schools that could be built annually. This is an alarming state of affairs, and pupils at Samora Machel Primary School in Philippi in Cape Town, with an enrolment of 750, are taught under trees. We hope that there will be measures introduced to overturn this sad situation. We acknowledge that the department and the Government are committed to bringing about revolutionary reform in education and this situation is foiling such a noble cause. I thank you, Ma'am. RETALIATION BY RAPE VICTIM (Member's Statement) 06 March 2003 Mr M S BOOI Page 21 of 147 (ANC): Madam Speaker, it is alleged that Mzimkulu Mngalane was stabbed to death by a female, Lulama Gxelishe, on 1 March 2003 at the Orange Grove squatter camp in East London. This was in retaliation for an incident involving the gang rape of the accused, and the deceased had been identified by the accused as one of the gang members that raped her. The sexual abuse of women and rape are gross violations of the human rights of women. These are barbaric and cowardly acts that must be condemned by all citizens. Where these incidents occur, communities must work with the police to ensure that this barbaric practice and behaviour is uprooted. We are equally disturbed about incidents where citizens take the law into their own hands. It is incorrect for a citizen, no matter how gruesome a criminal act might have been, to act in retaliation towards those who perpetrated criminal acts that infringe on his or her rights. Communities and individuals must always report a criminal offence to the police so that the law can take its course. 06 March 2003 Page 22 of 147 We have to be mindful that both victims and perpetrators have rights, and that everyone is presumed innocent until proven guilty actions hands, where as by a court individuals this amounts of law. take to We the abuse therefore law of into human condemn their own rights and undermines the criminal justice system. [Applause.] BLOOD TRANSFUSIONS (Member's Statement) Dr S J GOUS (Nuwe NP): Mevrou die Speaker, dit is miskien nodig om die veelbesproke geval waar 'n seun MIV-positief getoets het na 'n bloedoortapping in perspektief te stel. Dit is tans 'n wetenskaplike werklikheid dat daar altyd 'n statistiese kans bestaan om MIV/Vigs op te doen deur middel van 'n bloedoortapping, ten spyte van die beste toetsingmetodes. Die probleem ontstaan as gevolg van die sogenaamde vensterperiode waartydens bloed nie positief sal toets ten spyte daarvan dat dit besmet is nie. Die wetenskap en tegnologie het hierdie vensterperiode reeds na omtrent twee weke verminder, en in die toekoms sal dit waarskynlik nog 06 March 2003 verder Page 23 of 147 verminder. uitgeskakel Maar word, bloedprodukte reflekteer altyd totdat sal 'n geensins die die oordrag moontlikheid op vensterperiode die van MIV bly. totaal in Hierdie optrede van die feite die bloedoortappingsdiens nie, maar vir die persoon met wie dit gebeur, bly dit 'n harde werklikheid. Die Nuwe NP spreek sy meegevoel uit met mense wat MIV op hierdie manier opdoen. Dit is juis as gevolg van bogenoemde probleme dat bloed van hoërisiko persone nie gebruik behoort te word nie. Die moontlikhede van auto-oortapping en skenking en oortapping binne familieverband moet meer benut word. Byvoorbeeld, as 'n persoon weet hy moet 'n operasie ondergaan waartydens hy bloed gaan benodig, kan hy dit oorweeg om vooraf sy eie bloed te skenk, of om bloed van sy familie te ontvang. Bloedoortappings red duisende lewens, en sal dit steeds in die toekoms doen. Dankie. (Translation of Afrikaans member's statement follows.) [Dr S J GOUS (New NP): Madam Speaker, it is perhaps necessary to put into perspective the much-discussed case in which a boy tested HIV-positive after a blood 06 March 2003 Page 24 of 147 transfusion. It is currently a scientific reality that a statistical chance always exists of contracting HIV/Aids by way of a blood transfusion, despite the best testing methods. The problem arises as a result of the so-called window period during which blood will not test positive despite being contaminated. Science and technology have already reduced this window period to approximately two weeks, and in future it will probably be reduced even further. But until the transfer window of possibility. HIV These period in is blood facts in completely products no way eliminated will the remain reflect on a the activities of the blood transfusion service, but for the person to whom this happens it remains a hard reality. The New NP expresses its sympathy with people who have contracted HIV in this way. It is precisely as a result of the aforementioned persons should not problems that be The used. blood from possibilities high-risk of auto- transfusion and donation and transfusion within families should be utilised more extensively. For example, if someone knows that he has to undergo on operation during 06 March 2003 Page 25 of 147 which he will need blood, he can consider donating his own blood ahead of time, or receiving blood from his family. Blood transfusions save thousands of lives, and will continue to do so in the future. Thank you.] LEARNER'S UNPAID SCHOOL ACCOUNT (Minister's Response) The MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Madam Speaker, I reply to Prof Mayatula's intervention with a strong feeling of absolute despair. There you have a situation of a young boy who has to fend for himself, who lives by himself, and is treated in this extraordinary way by a school and governing body, and if I may say so, by the debt collector. The reason why I intervene is that it is vital that Parliament supports the enforcement of the law for the most vulnerable of our people. The most vulnerable are those at school. It is illegal to send this to the debt collector. It is illegal for a former Model C school in Pretoria, as I learnt today from a fellow member of Parliament, to charge R1 000 as a condition for admission. It is illegal for a 06 March 2003 Page 26 of 147 school, as I read in a long report from the North West province, to admission withhold to reports. teaching and It is illegal learning to deny activities for nonpayment. Where parents are able to pay, the sins of the parents can never be visited on the children. I think this is said in a well-known book that people in South Africa take reasonably seriously, and the sins of the parents are being visited here. But where there is an orphan, or where the parents are very poor, exemption that it the is an offence children not are to allow entitled to for by the law. Therefore, in our report on the costs and the financing of education, released on Monday, we take very seriously how to deal with the situation in this group of 20%, or possibly 40%, of our children who attend schools. This issue also affects middle-class parents. I get letters from middle-class parents whose children are being victimised, and there is no other word. So can I conclude by saying: I shall investigate the matter. I shall refer it to the Eastern Cape education department, and I think that the most condign punishment should be meted out to those involved in this - as we all know, ignorance of the law is 06 March 2003 Page 27 of 147 no excuse - including the principal and the governing body, if they are involved, and debt collectors also, because debt collectors are part of a conspiracy to deny the children their right. This is why I think intervention is necessary. LOSS OF SCHOOL TEXTBOOKS (Minister's Response) The MINISTER OF EDUCATION: The second issue is the question of school texts, and again I intervene, because this is of enormous importance. We are one of the few countries in the world that supply free school texts, and, of course, in principle the schools are supposed to supply them to pupils at the beginning of the year. Of course we have two kinds of schools: We have section 21 schools, where in fact the total charge of their budget, the lump sum, is given by the province. They, in fact, are also guilty of not supplying books. I do not know what they use the money for, but in the provinces of Gauteng and the Western Cape, section 21 schools are not all coming up to par in the supply of books to the children. 06 March 2003 Page 28 of 147 For the rest of the provinces, the province supplies the books. Books should be returned, for it is as the hon member has said: The amount involved can help to build a hundred schools in a decade. So we lose about R300 million out of a total budget, for school textbooks only, of about R700 million every year. Therefore we are part of a mobilisation, and this House should be too, because this is public money, at the very important point of delivery, and we're part of a mobilisation to ensure that school books are returned at the end of the year. But I do not think we can use the withholding of results as a punishment for the nonreturn of books. Thank you very much for raising this matter in the House. I am afraid I do not have the details of our children learning under registered. reasons trees. There which are are not Remember, many clear schools informal to us have to be school set-ups for always. Unless they register and register their children, these are informal schools, and the province has no responsibility for the payment of the teachers, maintenance of standards and a supply of books. 06 March 2003 I look Page 29 of 147 forward to the hon member supplying me with information about children under trees - and that in the Western Cape, ``nogal''! Thank you. [Interjections.] CENTRALISED PENSION PAYPOINTS (Minister's Response) The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon Mbadi for raising the issue of the distribution of pensions in the Eastern Cape to the weakest members of our society. Quite obviously I think that there is something radically wrong there in the distribution of pensions. But that issue, at the present moment, is being looked into by the task team that is working there from my department, the Department Administration, and Education. are They the of Public Departments dealing with the of Service and Health and problem that the people of the Eastern Cape face. But at the same time I would like to correct the hon Mr Mbadi, who thinks that the cause of that is centralisation, as he has put it. It is not centralisation that is the problem, but it is the privatisation, generally, of the distribution of pensions 06 March 2003 Page 30 of 147 there, because, as the majority of this House has always been crying, a private company has been given the task of distributing pensions. The main thing was that we hoped that by so doing we would be improving the conditions. But, unfortunately, all companies that are doing that, that is CPS and AllPay, are really not up to standard. There are a lot of things that are wrong there which ought to be supposed to be corrected. [Interjections.] Unfortunately, the same people that are helped are really finding it very difficult. That proves beyond any reasonable doubt that some of the things that the DP has always privatisation necessarily is the been the issue. crying answer for, to for instance everything, [Interjections.] I think are I that not would thank the hon member ... The SPEAKER: Order! The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Madam Speaker, can you protect me? The SPEAKER: Order! But you are running over time, so would you bring your intervention to an end, please? Order, hon 06 March 2003 members! Page 31 of 147 Are there any other Ministers that wish to intervene? THE ATTAINMENT OF PEACE AND DEMOCRATIC GOVERNANCE IN AFRICA IS A PREREQUISITE FOR THE REALISATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS AND GENDER EQUALITY FOR HER CITIZENS (Subject for Discussion) The DEPUTY DEVELOPMENT: MINISTER Madam FOR JUSTICE Speaker, AND members CONSTITUTIONAL of the National Assembly, it has been said that if one empowers a country's women, one empowers the whole nation. This must also be true for the continent of Africa. If one empowers her women, one empowers Africa. In South Africa the promotion and protection integral to Recognising of the human rights long-term that women's has, since development rights of are 1994, become this country. human rights, mainstreaming gender, has been central to the sustainable development programmes that Government has set in place for a new and inclusive way forward. We are all becoming increasingly aware that the development of Africa's women is essential for the successful and 06 March 2003 Page 32 of 147 sustainable development of our continent. Quite recently UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan, when addressing African leaders, observed: If you want to save the African continent, you must save the African woman first. We have, since legislation that women. must, One 1994, are set in designed though, place to see many empower the pieces South development of African of this legislation within the context of the overall development process. The development of legal frameworks that support the empowerment of women must be seen within the context of a housing policy that targets the poorest and the most vulnerable; within addresses rural education policy a and land redistribution gender that programme marginalisation; insists upon equal that within an access to education for all girl children; and within an economic framework that facilitates the access of women to resources that enable economic participation. Since 1994, when South Africa gained its status as a constitutional democracy and international citizen of good standing, the legislative review process has resulted in 06 March 2003 Page 33 of 147 the production of an unprecedented body of laws that lay the foundation for the transformation of our society. Based on the vision of a nonsexist, nonracist democracy, our political leaders have made a conscious effort to put in place gender-specific legislative frameworks to support the advancement of women's rights. Our experience, however, is that laws on their own cannot and do not change the status of vulnerable groups nor do they automatically alter the conditions against of those poverty implementation of that and require special discrimination. these laws and protections It the is the developmental frameworks that support them that will secure a better life for our people. We have therefore to narrow the gap between ambitious legislative measures and practical delivery on the ground. Our Constitution exhorts us to free the potential in all our citizens. fingertips To those do so resources we must that place have at been their very earmarked to fight the scourge of poverty and ameliorate its impact on the quality of life. Increasing the number of interfaces between the community and Government service centres is essential, but this infrastructural drive must be supported by improved service delivery in the spirit of Batho Pele - 06 March 2003 government's Page 34 of 147 credo for a quality, people-centred public service. Our President, in his state of the nation address last month, had this to say on service delivery: The effective delivery of the expanded services to the people requires that we improve the efficiency of the Public Service. Without an efficient and an effective public service, it will be impossible for us to register the advances of which we are capable. Balancing the dire need to develop people and especially women against the backdrop of financial and other resource constraints has become the lot of developing countries. We have, however, come to recognise that the acute development challenges we face in this country have strong regional imperatives. We have therefore engaged our African partners and the international community to develop an overall strategy that interlocks with the development needs of our region. The New Partnership for African Development provides the architecture that will sustain and support a proactive, 06 March 2003 Page 35 of 147 progressive and holistic Africa her people. and global acceptance approach to Fortunately, that in order the development there to is remain a of growing relevant, development programmes must be rights based. Furthermore, these programmes should be informed and motivated by the need to realise the whole gamut sustainability achievable and must ourselves when satisfy programmes, but, over and of rights contextually that relevant. implementing above the makes We development obvious political rights that must be addressed, social, economic, gender and environmental rights should also be mainstreamed into the development agenda. Policies to address the increasing ... [Interjections.] An HON MEMBER: Why don't your ... [Inaudible.] The DEPUTY DEVELOPMENT: MINISTER Have your FOR JUSTICE eyes been AND closed? CONSTITUTIONAL Certainly your ears have. [Laughter.] Policies to address the increasing feminisation of poverty on our continent and programmes to reverse the chronic effects for African women of years of underdevelopment must 06 March 2003 Page 36 of 147 be set in place. The acid test for Nepad's development programmes would be the degree to which the rights of the poorest and the most vulnerable - Africa's women - are realised in their application. President Thabo Mbeki has emphasised that good governance and the elimination of conflict are two key ingredients for the successful implemention of Nepad. In this regard we as Africans should not be satisfied merely with the absence of war. We must insist upon the complete eradication of violence, particularly violence directed at our continent's women and children. To eliminate poverty we must develop a global community in such a way that the potential in each person, each community, each institution and therefore each country, is optimised. capacity their Developing to engage capacity as people is opportunity. individuals about It and is developing about their developing communities to become proactive agents of change. This approach to development recognises the desire of developing countries to be active participants in the development process rather than passive recipients of prestructured aid packages. This approach also presupposes the need for innovative partnerships in 06 March 2003 which the Page 37 of 147 strengths of the collaborating parties are optimised and the weaknesses are eliminated through mutual co-operation and unity of purpose. And from this approach will flow a pattern of achievement and progress that constantly reinforces the collective good. In just under a decade the transition from apartheid to democracy has delivered real advances in gender equity, but much remains to be done. Gender inequities persist in the daily lives of our women, especially African women. Both research and anecdotal evidence suggest that gender-based discrimination here and in the rest of Africa is still cause for serious concern. We are all of us starkly aware how race, class and gender conspire to relegate women to the very bottom of the human rights hierarchy. We must, all of us, equity continue and to gender accelerate rights the drive realisation. towards Our gender President, Mr Thabo Mbeki, has insisted on rights realisation for women as a primary indicator of developmental progress. In fact, our President considers the empowerment of women to be ``the litmus test'' of rights development in our country. The emancipation of African women from discrimination is a precondition of Africa's liberation. For women in South 06 March 2003 Africa, the discrimination Page 38 of 147 journey and towards deprivation a has society started free and is of well under way. We have been inspired by such luminaries as Lilian Ngoyi, Helen Joseph and Parliament's own Getrude Shope, and we are girded by the knowledge that there exists the necessary political will to achieve a society free of racism, sexism and patriarchy. As Government prepares to legislate on black economic empowerment later this year, we must, as women, participate in the discussions, lobbying and decisions that will formulate the nature of this legislation. We must do so because we believe that black economic empowerment, like women's empowerment, is a constitutional imperative. We must do so because it makes good business sense. We must do so because we know that by empowering the disempowered we strengthen ourselves, our economy and our country. And we must do so because we believe that our interventions will make a difference. Before I conclude, I would like to quote from an article by Michael wrote: McCarthy, a journalist for the Independent, who 06 March 2003 The Page 39 of 147 argument for empowering women in developing countries, and in the development process, stems not just from equity, but from practicality. It is not only right and just that women should be given a voice, have the work they do recognised, and be treated with respect the consequences of leaving them behind are dire for whole societies. Madam Speaker, you might be aware that Mrs Zanele Mbeki is currently convening a process that aims to promote peace in our region. Sixty women from the DRC arrived in South Africa on Monday to participate in the DRC-South Africa women's dialogue towards regional peace. During the threeday conference that is currently under way in Pretoria, women from both countries and from all walks of life will, amongst other things, exchange strategies on women's integration within their own political party formations and share experiences on how South Africa achieved a common women's agenda during the democratisation process leading to the 1994 elections. They will also try to get an understanding of how women can play a role in the decisionmaking processes that lead government decisions and public decisions as they relate to NGOs, CPOs and other public institutions. 06 March 2003 Page 40 of 147 This initiative follows on South Africa's support of the DRC peace process in Sun City and Pretoria last year. It is also a shining example of how women can participate in and influence the important developmental issues that continually challenge our continent. I am sure that you will join me in wishing both delegations well during this conference and in congratulating Mrs Mbeki on leading this important process. I thank you. [Applause.] Ms J A SEMPLE: supports the Madam Speaker, objectives of the the Democratic African Charter Alliance in its efforts to ensure that every woman shall be entitled to the enjoyment of the rights and freedoms recognised and guaranteed in the African Charter on Human and Peoples' Rights and the present protocol, without distinction of any kind. It is clearly not possible to achieve these rights in countries such as Zimbabwe, where peace and democracy are not present. The draft protocol to the African Charter on human rights calls on all member states to eliminate every discrimination against women and to ensure the protection of the rights declarations of and women as conventions. stipulated This in international includes eliminating 06 March 2003 gender-based Page 41 of 147 violence against women, which has been internationally recognised as a form of sex discrimination. The African Charter specifically repudiates the inequality of sexes wherever it exists, rejecting all notions and institutions of superiority and inferiority on the basis of sex and affirming the equal humanity of men and women. One of the worst forms of asserting superiority - and, it is said, a way of minimising feelings of inferiority, especially where there is high unemployment and women ``no longer know their place'' - is rape, and this will be dealt with in greater detail later by my colleague the hon Waters. It is further noted that discrimination against women is an obstacle to the participation of women in the political, social, economic and cultural life of their countries and constitutes an obstacle to development in those countries. It has greater been proved socioeconomic that educating upliftment: women children provides are for better educated and nourished and the family has a higher standard of living. 06 March 2003 Page 42 of 147 Discrimination by women against women further undermines their status. The members of the JMC (Joint Monitoring Committee) on the Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Women were not briefed by the Office on the Status of Women before they left to present South Africa's case to the Commission on the Status of Women in New York this week. The excuse given was that the presenter was too tired to drive to the airport. When the report was finally faxed through, it was found to be of very poor quality. One wonders what mandate such a report carried when it was not even discussed with the very people who represent the women of our country in this Parliament. It is crucial that if women want to be taken seriously and take their rightful place alongside men as equals, they must at least stand together and support each other. Thank you. [Applause.] Dr U ROOPNARAIN: Madam Speaker, hon members, each segment of the subject - human rights, peace, gender, Africa and democracy - could easily take up a whole week of discussions on its own. I will give a broad overview from my own perspective, and let me immediately recognise that all issues are interrelated. We, as South Africans, with 06 March 2003 Page 43 of 147 our position and purpose, have an enormous responsibility towards Africa. We are really like an umbilical cord. We know that all societies bear the imprints and birthmarks of their own past; Africa is no different, and Africa has walked a savage road. My speech is tempered towards a human rights approach. I believe it is time to get away from that hardy old chestnut of Afro-pessimism, which says that Africa is inferior, Africa is backward, Africa is unproductive and corrupt. Too often have we seen pictures of an emaciated child depending on some merciful charity. It was Africa's great leader who once said: Of all the sins Africa can commit, the sin of despair would be the most unforgivable. Africa needs to assert her humanity and not become a beast of burden. I am reminded of President Mbeki's words from his book Africa: The Time Has Come, but I would like to say: Africa, the time is now! Although I speak of the relationship between Africa and us, I am not saying that experiences can be transposed from one 06 March 2003 Page 44 of 147 country to another. So what next, you may ask? An important issue is the issue of human rights. It is about recovery and reclaiming the dignity of the people of Africa, especially the women who have been raped, women who have been physically and emotionally abused, women who have been maimed by conflicts, wars, genocide, and women who have become refugees, displaced, and have lost their human worth and dignity. Human rights are too important to be a symbolic gesture or just a mantra to chant on Human Rights Day or on International Women's Day. Where there is conflict, there is no democracy. Over the past few decades Africa has probably suffered more from armed conflict than any other continent. Between 1960 and 1998, there were 32 wars in Africa, seven million lives were lost and over nine million people became refugees, returnees and displaced, not to mention the untold trauma, loss and suffering. Today many are still fighting this war. The repercussions of these conflicts have seriously undermined Africa's efforts to ensure long-term prosperity, stability, democracy, human rights and gender equality. Instead they have brought on extreme poverty, human rights 06 March 2003 Page 45 of 147 atrocities and starvation. I think it was a Nobel laureate, Egil Aarvik, who said: There are people who are not satisfied merely to draw attention to alarming trends, but who also devote their energy and ability to turning the tide. We need to move away from spurious self-interest and help unlock the forbidden opportunities in women. The most insidious barrier to women is the lack of participation in decision-making structures. The IFP is of the opinion that the world needs a new social contract, a contract that puts women on an equal footing at all levels, from the private sphere to the public sphere. We as the IFP believe that peace education is paramount and crucial. Finally, it should be immoral and illegal for any government to have a military budget that is greater than its health and education budget. Let us refuel the torch and help turn the tide. The time for Africa is now. Thank you. [Applause.] Mev ANNA VAN WYK: Mevrou die Speaker, die bywoning van 'n byeenkoms soos die Rassemblement des Femmes pour la Paix - 06 March 2003 Page 46 of 147 die Vergadering, of byeenkoms, van Vroue vir Vrede - waarna die agb Gillwald verwys het, van die Demokratiese Republiek van die Kongo en Suid-Afrika, is werklik insiggewend. Die byeenkoms vind plaas onder die Afrika-Unie en Nepad se sambreel. Die doelwitte is onder meer, soos sy gesê het, om onderling strategieë uit te ruil van Suid-Afrikaanse vroue se integrasie binne hul eie politieke formasies en om die winste van vrede vir die vroue se ontwikkeling na vore te bring. Hopelik sal die Kongolese vroue wat self verskillende politieke en samelewingsektore verteenwoordig, aan die einde van die weeklange vredesforum beter toegerus wees om die standhoudende mans vrede van te die DRK sluit. te help oorreed (Translation of om 'n Afrikaans paragraphs follows.) [Mrs ANNA VAN WYK: Madam Speaker, the attendance of a gathering like the Rassemblement des Femmes pour la Paix the Meeting, or gathering, of Women for Peace - from the Democratic Republic of the Congo and South Africa, which the hon Gillwald referred to, is really informative. The meeting falls under the umbrella of the African Union and Nepad. The goals are, amongst others, as she mentioned, mutually to exchange strategies about the integration of South African women within their own political formations 06 March 2003 and to bring Page 47 of 147 forth the benefits of peace for the development of these women. Hopefully the Congolese women who themselves represent various political and community sectors will be better equipped at the end of the week-long peace forum to assist with convincing the men of the DRC to conclude a maintained peace.] The suffering of many of the peoples of Africa was really brought home by the experiences of these women. They, like millions of women and children, live in conditions devoid of the most basic human rights as a result of war and conflict, and are treated as prey and booty by combatants and their sympathisers. The New NP wholeheartedly supports the initiatives taken by Mrs Zanele Mbeki to assist the Congolese women in their quest for peace and development. This kind of action demonstrates in practice South Africa's commitment to the objectives of the AU and Nepad and should in fact be extended to other countries in Africa. In regard to the DRC, South Africa sets an example worth emulating and also, Belgium, by which the by, does assisting that country. to not the previous contribute colonial one cent power, towards 06 March 2003 Page 48 of 147 This makes it all the more baffling that while South Africa is prepared to go to intervene positively and responsibly in the DRC, it refuses to do so for the sake of our own neighbours, our own friends, our own families, our nearest trading partner, Zimbabwe. Not so long ago we even invaded Lesotho at the drop of a hat, when there were mere intimations of political instability. Next door in Zimbabwe there is more than political instability. People are being systematically stripped of their human rights, the might of the state is used to hound and oppress popular opposition and the economy has been destroyed to such an extent that people are actually starving and fleeing their country in droves. South Africa could end up having so much on its plate that we shall not be able to handle it if we do not take timeous steps. And the Constitutive Act of the AU spells it all out. Here it is: In Chapter III of the New Partnership for Africa's Development, entitled ``The new political will of African leaders'', section 49 says - and our President has signed this: To achieve these objectives, African leaders will take joint responsibility for the following: 06 March 2003 Page 49 of 147 Strengthening management mechanisms and for resolution conflict at the prevention, regional and continental levels, and to ensure that these mechanisms are used to restore and maintain peace; Promoting and protecting democracy and human rights in their respective countries and regions ... Restoring and maintaining macroeconomic stability ... Suid-Afrikaners is bekommerd oor Zimbabwe en dit sal nie weggaan totdat 'n duidelike antwoord gegee word nie. [South Africans are concerned about Zimbabwe and it wil not go away until a clear answer is given.] What precisely is our Government doing in respect of these solemn undertakings? What is there to hide in silent diplomacy? Trust your people. Trust your Parliament. Tell us what you are doing and what your plans are. If you can invite women of civil society in South Africa to Esselen Park to help you in your peace efforts in the DRC, you can trust us and invite us to help with Zimbabwe. South Africans can be extraordinarily generous and forgiving. Try us! We do not want our closest neighbour to implode. We 06 March 2003 Page 50 of 147 want that country to prosper. It cannot do so if you do not implement your own undertakings in the Constitutive Act and in Nepad. As 'n land soos Frankryk weens eie belang hom teen 'n muishond wil opvryf, is dit sy eie saak. Maar Suid-Afrika se gebrek aan bewysbare optrede ten opsigte van Mugabe en Zanu-PF kan hoegenaamd geen vertroue inboesem by Nepad en sy vennote en die res van die wêreld nie. Inteendeel. Dus, hoe gouer die protokol aangaande die instelling van die Afrika-Unie Raad vir Vrede en Sekuriteit bekragtig word, hoe beter. Nog nie 'n enkele land het dit gedoen nie en dit is dalk net die instrument wat die Regering soek om hom uit sy besluitloosheid te help. Soos die tyd aanstap, besef 'n mens al hoe meer wat die potensiaal van die Afrika-Unie en Nepad is. Die onderwerp vir vandag se debat, trouens, berus op Afrika se eie doelwitte en ideale soos vervat in die Konstitutionele Akte en die Nepad Program van Aksie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.) [If a country like France wants to associate with a skunk owing to self-interest, it is their affair. But South 06 March 2003 Page 51 of 147 Africa's lack of proven action with regard to Mugabe and Zanu-PF can by no means instill confidence with Nepad and its partners and the rest of the world. On the contrary. Therefore, the sooner the protocol concerning the establishment of the African Union Council for Peace and Security is ratified, the better. Not a single country has as yet done this and it is maybe just the instrument that the Government is looking for to assist it out of its indecision. As time marches on one realises more and more what the potential of the African Union and Nepad is. The subject for today's debate is, after all, based on the individual goals and ideals of Africa as contained in the Constitutive Act and in the Nepad Programme of Action.] The role of women in the peace process and in conflict management, prevention and resolution was one of the themes of yesterday's discussion. South Africa gained its peace because the leaders sat down, agreed that the conflict should end and set about negotiating a constitution. We laid a solid foundation, and it is time now to build that house which Mr De Klerk and Mr Mandela got up to window 06 March 2003 Page 52 of 147 height. We should conclude that and take the roof where it needs to be. Applying the tenets of the document we have, most particularly in our own country, would assist all of us to build a stronger, better home for the peoples of South Africa. It is all here, and if every politician and every official would study this document and apply what there is, we would be on our way to becoming a model state. I am quite sure the private sector would join us in that. This, to a large extent, motivates the consensus that is required for South Africans to mobilise their formidable resources to join forces and build this continent. I thank you. [Applause.] Ms ANNELIZÉ VAN WYK: Madam Speaker and hon members, in times of war and conflict there can be no talk of human rights. What little attention human rights receive in such periods is focused on prisoners of war, not the general population. It is a known fact that women are often the first, the unnoticed and the forgotten victims of war. Sadly, the African continent is still racked by conflict, war and civil war. 06 March 2003 Page 53 of 147 Many of these conflicts have dragged out over many years or even decades. As a result a culture of human rights abuse takes root. Therefore we cannot merely accept that the signing of a peace agreement to end conflict will magically restore a culture of respect for human rights. No, it will take active culture. and Such concerted efforts, efforts like the to establish actual such negotiations a for peace, must not exclude women. Women are the victims and consequently they should be involved. Women are caregivers and the centre of family structures. This is even more so in times of conflict and war, when men are engaged in combat away from their homes. Women are thus equipped to establish a caring and responsible society that respects human rights. While South African efforts in bringing peace in Africa must be welcomed Government to and actively appreciated, include we the call upon the development and establishment of human rights and gender equality in these efforts. It prosperity. is a prerequisite for lasting peace and 06 March 2003 Page 54 of 147 We must not talk of Africa as if it were another place. We too are part of Africa, and we have to ask ourselves whether the legislation and rhetoric in favour of women's rights expressed in this House translate into gender equality in broader society. We must be honest; the answer still is no. A vast majority of South African women have no idea of their rights, or how to exercise or access them. It is also part of this House's duties to empower our people, also as far as their rights are concerned, so that their lives can change in a meaningful manner. Gender equality in Africa starts here. It is not achieved by a privileged few women in Parliament being aware of all the nice-sounding and well-intentioned gender programmes. This House must actively legislate gender equality in each Bill that comes before us. In this way, we further contribute to mainstreaming gender equality. This House must also go a step further. It must rise to the challenge of true parliamentary oversight. This means that our jobs extend to beyond merely rushing through as many progressive pieces of legislation as possible. It requires constant monitoring to ensure that that legislation is 06 March 2003 implemented Page 55 of 147 fully and translates into reality for the majority of South African women. I thank you. [Applause.] Rev K R J MESHOE: Deputy Speaker, the attainment of peace and democratic prerequisite governance for in realisation Africa of human is not rights only and a gender equality, but it is also imperative for the survival of the millions of inhabitants of this continent. There is no doubt that huge strides have been made in many African countries culture, racial towards particularly and gender when engendering it comes discrimination. a to human the However, rights removal many of African nations struggle with the basic fundamental prerequisites for peace and democracy such as freedom of the press, freedom of association and religion and the right to oppose the government of the day in a democratic, open and fair election. The continent of Africa, though one of the world's most minerally rich continents, is a continent ravaged by poverty, war and political instability. Although colonised and plundered by many nations over centuries, the vast majority of African nations now control their own destinies 06 March 2003 Page 56 of 147 and have the opportunity to turn their countries into model nations. However, in most cases the liberator and successor has become the oppressor. Africa is a continent at war with itself, and the numerous human rights abuses and wanton destruction of African lives and property have primarily occurred at the hands of its own people. The fundamental problem of this continent is not a lack of intelligent solutions, resources or finances or the weight of its huge debt. At its core, it is rebellion against God, which manifests itself in corruption, theft, idolatry, endless wars and a lack of accountability. The formation of the African Union and the African Renaissance can do little to turn the situation around if dictators and oppressive governments are allowed to crush democracy and its people with impunity. Clearly Africa is far from cultivating a human rights culture, as is testified by the unbridled human rights abuses perpetrated by some African leaders. This continues the cycle of the African ``Big Men'', or untouchables, as they are called in some circles. The ACDP believes that nobody must be above the law or be a law to himself. We must get rid of all the leaders who think that they are untouchable. If we do not do that, Africa will not attain peace and democratic 06 March 2003 Page 57 of 147 governance, which are prerequisites for the realisation of human rights. I thank you. [Applause.] Mr G P MNGOMEZULU: Madam Deputy Speaker, in discussing this important matter we are compelled to turn back the pages of history to examine in particular the terrible, horrible legacy of centuries of colonial rule and domination. We all know that since 1948 the worst form of colonial domination was imposed oppressive, on all racist blacks regime that in this country introduced and by the imposed a vile system on the overwhelming majority of our people in this country. It is also a well-known fact that this vile system was declared a heresy or cancer on human society and violated every single vestige of democracy and human rights. It was during these dark days in our history as blacks that this brutal system introduced the most pernicious laws that governed our country. Virtually every law that was passed by the racist Parliament was intended to divide and sow hatred amongst the vast majority of our people. This period of our history also saw the complete separation, division and breaking down of our people into racial groups, which led to the uprooting of millions of our people from their 06 March 2003 Page 58 of 147 original places of residence to remote areas. As a result of this abominable policy of separate development, our people were turned into hewers of wood and drawers of water in the country of their birth. The notorious hostel system and pass laws which deprived the African workers of the opportunity to lead a decent and dignified family life led to the brutal disruption and breakup of families and family life. In spite of the degradation, humiliation and deprivation, our people, with their strong tradition of Ubuntu, resisted this humiliation and did not give up their strong customs, traditions and belief in building strong bonds within the family, which sustained the spirit of unity, peace and human dignity amongst our people. After the first democratic elections in our country, the ANC, as the authentic representative of the struggling masses of South Africa, drafted and adopted one of the most progressive constitutions which the world had ever seen. This Constitution proclaimed, inter alia, a democratic, united, nonsexist and nonracial South Africa. In keeping with these lofty ideas, aims and objectives of the 06 March 2003 Page 59 of 147 Constitution, we have solidarity and peace White. so far In been and are among our people, as our working for both transformation unity, black and policies are concerned, we have made major strides in bringing about a better life for all our people. In his state of the nation address, the President of our country said: Crimes against women and children have received priority attention, including the establishment of more sexual offences courts. Eleven of these were launched in the last six months alone. It is a recognised fact that crime, the abuse of women and children, violence unemployment in against our country women came and as a children result of and the abnormal and stressful conditions and environment in which our people lived. These conditions, created by the then racist regime, led the masses of our people into abject poverty. In an attempt to push back the frontiers of poverty, we can state with pride that we made great improvements in 06 March 2003 Page 60 of 147 uplifting the lives of ordinary people in South Africa by making provision for basic needs such as: houses, clean water, health care, clinics, hospitals, schools, electricity and telephones throughout South Africa and, in particular, in the rural areas. It must be clearly and emphatically stated that this is no mean achievement in a period of less than 10 years. Apart from delivering these basic needs which our people had been deprived of for decades, the ANC-led government also passed a number of laws which have had a positive impact on securing the rights of women and children, for instance the Promotion of Equality and Prevention of Unfair Discrimination Act, the Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Act, the Domestic Violence Act, the Maintenance Act and the Labour Relations Act. These and many other laws were enacted to strengthen our state, country and nation. Two more pieces of legislation currently being considered are one dealing with the compulsory HIV testing of alleged sexual offenders and the Child Justice Bill, which will serve to further enhance the protection and rights of women and children. These various transformatory pieces of legislation will definitely go a long way in bringing about 06 March 2003 peace, Page 61 of 147 stability, unity, prosperity and social progress amongst our people. History teaches us that women and children suffer the most in times of war. In view of the unstable continental and international conditions which pose a serious threat to peace, it is therefore imperative to mobilise our people against war. In keeping with the principle of fostering peace, the ANCled Government is spearheading the campaign for peace through the AU, the NAM, the Commonwealth and the United Nations. I want to take this opportunity to salute our Government for its efforts in Burundi, the DRC, Iraq and Palestine. In conclusion, especially men, we to want to strongly call upon support all and our people, promote the Government's peace initiatives for Africa and the entire world, and to condemn, in the strongest possible terms, violence, rape and the abuse of children and women from whatever quarter it comes. 06 March 2003 Page 62 of 147 Baby rape has become a common phenomenon in South Africa. The reason for this is the myth, which is widespread both in South Africa and beyond its borders, that sex with a child or a baby will rid a man of HIV and Aids. Baby Tshepang was only nine months old when she was brutally raped in the Northern Cape town of Louisvale. Her rapists thought that they were resolving a problem by brutally and shamelessly raping this innocent and defenceless baby. Furthermore, most men still live in the belief that in our culture they have the final say in so far as family life is concerned. They believe that in our culture a woman does not have anything to say and that the final word is that of the man. Sex, according to some of these men, is not open for discussion; final, and no the decision correspondence of the will be head of family is into. In entered responding to some of these myths and reactionary beliefs, our justice system has prioritised sexual offences with a review of law and stiffer sentences. Lastly, I want to quote the director-general of Unesco, who said, on the occasion of International Women's Day: 06 March 2003 Page 63 of 147 Until women are fully represented at the leadership level of public, professional and economic life, we cannot say that they enjoy full and equal rights. Women must enjoy truly equal opportunities at each stage of their path in professional and public life. This has to be the priority of all governments, institutions and organisations whose policies impact on the gender balance. Thank you very much, Comrade Chair. [Applause.] Mr P H K DITSHETELO: Madam Deputy Speaker, there is a new wave of political thinking that continues to sweep through the continent. It is nothing but the acceptance by most African leaders that it is time for Africa to be given a chance to experience peace and democracy if she is to advance in the cause of human rights and gender equality. There are causes attributed to our continent's instability and inability to establish democratic institutions. The era of post-colonial Africa is fraught with internal wars. It is in this new era of the African Renaissance that we are now experiencing relative peace and stability. It is time that we utilised the newly created African 06 March 2003 Page 64 of 147 institutions such as the African Union to deepen peace and democracy on our continent. We have an opportunity to design these democratic institutions to address our own peculiar way of thinking and doing things within the broader principles of a democratic society that is underpinned by human rights and gender equality. For many years the issues of gender equality in our continent were presented as if Africans by their nature promoted gender inequality. This to some extent appears to be true on the surface, but the real picture is somewhat different. For many years African women occupied a special place in our community. It was during the era of modernisation that African family life was dislodged. Yes, peace and democracy are prerequisites for the realisation of human rights and gender equality. In essence a democratic society is expected to promote nondiscriminatory and human rights values. We are confident that Africa is on course to give birth to such institutions and values. 06 March 2003 Page 65 of 147 Re tlaa lwa ka tsotlhe tse re nang le tsona go bona gore bommarona le bana ba rona ba a sireletsega le go bona dithata tse di ba tshwanetseng. Ke a leboga. [We will fight with all that we have to ensure that our women and children are protected and receive the powers that they deserve.] Dr M S MOGOBA: Deputy Speaker, this is Human Rights Month. It is appropriate that from this House we should beat the drums of Africa on human rights. The drum is one instrument in Africa that goes straight and fast to the cores of Africans. Our appeal is that all of Africa should listen and hear, because, if there is one singular cry or need in Africa, it is human rights. Our human rights records in Africa are shocking or virtually nonexistent. Our subject today puts a finger on the problem. We do not start with human rights, but with peace and democratic governance, which are the prerequisites for the realisation of human rights and gender equality. We in this country have just emerged from one of the severest wars of liberation in human history. It was a war 06 March 2003 Page 66 of 147 principally about land possession, but also about colour. Both these factors bring God into the picture. Why did God create me white or black? Is there anything one can do about it? Can I improve my whiteness or blackness? Can we leave the land that God has given us and go to another one somewhere? This unfortunately points the victims to a war that may be eternal and therefore a situation that would deny us having hope. I want us to look at the Sharpeville tragedy against this background. redirection of The our massacres, struggle burnings made our and struggle complete become continental and international. We owe our thanks to all who came to our help. A few more critical points need to be made. Apartheid and white supremacy before it were unfortunate events, but ironically the oppressed achieved great unity during this time. I have heard many blacks praying for the return of apartheid to help us achieve unity and a clearer focus for our struggle. 06 March 2003 Page 67 of 147 The period of negotiations and reconciliation was a trying test for us. It was a touch-and-go situation, and at any moment we could have slipped back into a situation of no return. The title we have of a miracle state is somehow correct, and many people really want to know how we got it right. It is not surprising that all of Africa are already here, and those who are not here are shouting for one form of help or another. Unfortunately this urgent appeal is in the nature of a crisis itself because this flooding of our shores before we have settled down and put human rights on a firm footing could destabilise us and kill the one role model that Africa needs. In our words, we need a firm culture of human rights and gender equality in our country to strengthen our image of being the leader and role model. Our states in Africa that are not very far from attaining ... [Interjections.] The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I regret your time has expired, hon member. Dr M S MOGOBA: I am only halfway. [Laughter.] 06 March 2003 The Page 68 of 147 DEPUTY SPEAKER: Only halfway? [Laughter.] [Interjections.] An HON MEMBER: Get more votes at the next election! Dr M S MOGOBA: I'm going to get them. [Interjections.] Miss S RAJBALLY: Madam Deputy Speaker, may I take this opportunity of quoting from the speech of our former President, Mr Nelson Mandela, when he opened South Africa's first democratically elected Parliament on 24 May 1994: It is vitally government, important including the that all President structures himself, of should understand this fully: that freedom cannot be achieved unless women have been emancipated from all forms of oppression. It is in terms of the vision of the above statement that South Africa is democratic, fair and peaceful. It is then our Constitution that governs as supreme and contains the Bill of Rights that makes gender equality and human rights a law that shall not be bent. From there it is society and individuals that choose to adhere to and activate such 06 March 2003 Page 69 of 147 rights. We have come a long way and success is visible in many spheres as a result of this. It is Africa around is this skeleton structured in that our the way present-day forward South towards the attainment of democracy, and peace is crucial if we are to reach these values. The whole of South Africa should note this: that, no matter the constraints of religion, culture, tradition and so forth, this is possible. Africa is a heterogeneous continent and human rights violations are nothing new. We have had our taste of them for many torture presented years. and many Genocide, other themselves slavery, fiercely throughout mass harsh Africa. disappearance, realities Democracy, have human rights and gender equality go hand in hand in attaining peace. The MF supports all efforts to attain gender equality and human rights globally and finds that this is a means to attaining peace and democracy. [Applause.] Mnr C AUCAMP: Agb Adjunkspeaker, ons onderwerp hang nie in die lug nie. Ons kan nie maar in 'n vakuum filosofeer oor 06 March 2003 Page 70 of 147 die verband tussen demokratiese landsbestuur en menseregte nie. Ons onderwerp kom aarde toe met dié kwalifikasie: ``In Afrika'', spesifiek 'n Afrika uit die periode na kolonialisasie en deel van die globale wêreld. Die verband is vanselfsprekend. Menseregte en geslagsgelykheid is die eerste wat in die slag bly ten tye van konflik en onvrede. Met elke opstand, elke oorlog, elke rebellie, elke etniese konflik is dit vroue en kinders wat die meeste ly. Swak landsbestuur en diktatoriale optrede deur leiers bring 'n land op sy knieë en dis vroue en kinders wat ly. Wat Afrika betref, kyk maar net na die rye en rye mense wat toustaan vir rantsoene in Zimbabwe en dit is die honger oë van vroue en kinders wat jou tref. Bring dan swak bestuur en outoritêre optrede by waardeur die rantsoene gereserveer word vir Zanu-PF lojaliste, en die belang van ons onderwerp word nog duideliker. Kontrasteer die flambojante weelde van 'n Gaddafi en sy gevolg met die duisende honger vroue en kinders in Libië en u verstaan wat ek bedoel. Daarom is dit so noodsaaklik dat die portuurgroepkontrole in Afrika nie net kan handel oor ekonomiese sake nie, maar dat demokratiese landsbestuur 06 March 2003 Page 71 of 147 onlosmaaklik daarvan deel uitmaak. In daardie opsig moet Afrika vir homself verantwoordelikheid aanvaar. Onder menseregte verstaan ons ook nie net individuele regte nie, maar ook die regte van taal-, kultuur- en godsdienstige gemeenskappe. Op 'n kontinent met sy talle minderheidsgemeenskappe is dit 'n voorvereiste vir vrede en menseregte. Tog sal daar groot duidelikheid moet kom oor die verantwoordelikheid van die staat, afgegrens teenoor dit van die burgerlike samelewing. Hoewel elkeen soewerein is in eie kring, kan dit nie toegelaat word dat praktyke soos genetiese manipulasie, onderdrukking van vroue en selfs kinderoffers en mutimoorde onder die dekmantel van godsdiens toegelaat word nie. Die AEB ondersteun die beginsels van Nepad en die Afrika Renaissance. Die eerste verantwoordelikheid begin egter in Afrika. Slegs wanneer erns gemaak word met ware demokrasie, kan daar van menseregte en geslagsgelykheid enige sprake wees. Ek dank u. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.) [Mr C AUCAMP: Hon Deputy Speaker, our subject is not suspended in the air. We cannot simply philosophise in a vacuum about the relationship between democratic governance 06 March 2003 Page 72 of 147 of a country and human rights. Our subject comes down to earth with this qualification: "in Africa", specifically an Africa from the period after colonialisation and part of the global world. The connection is obvious. Human rights and gender equality are the first to fall victim in times of conflict and the absence of rebellion, children peace. every who With every ethnic suffer revolt, conflict the it most. every is Poor war, the every women governance and and dictatorial actions by leaders bring a country to its knees and it is the women and children who suffer. As far as Africa is concerned, just look at the rows and rows of people who are queuing up for rations in Zimbabwe and it is the hungry eyes of women and children that hit one. Add poor governance and authoritarian actions through which the rations are reserved for Zanu-PF loyalists, and the and his interest of our subject becomes even clearer. Contrast the flamboyant luxury of a Gaddafi entourage with the thousands of hungry women and children in Libya and you will understand what I mean. For that reason it is so essential that the peer control group in Africa should not only be able to deal with economic 06 March 2003 affairs, but Page 73 of 147 that democratic governance of the country should also be an inseparable part of it. In that regard Africa must accept responsibility for itself. We not only understand human rights to mean individual rights, but also the rights of linguistic, cultural and religious communities. On a continent with many minority groups it is Nevertheless, a a condition great deal for peace of clarity and human must be rights. obtained about the responsibility of the state, as opposed to that of civil society. Although each is sovereign in its own circle, one cannot manipulation, sacrifices and allow suppression muti practices of murders women to take such as and even place genetic under child the protection of religion. The AEB supports the principles of Nepad and the African Renaissance. The first responsibility, however, starts in Africa. Only once real democracy is taken seriously can there be any question of human rights and gender equality. I thank you.] 06 March 2003 Page 74 of 147 Mr M WATERS: Deputy Speaker, it is a great honour for me to be speaking in this debate on gender equality today as a male. A great woman once said: ``In politics, if you want something said, ask a man; if you want anything done, ask a woman.'' I am in fact quoting Margaret Thatcher. I would like to add to that quote: In life, if you want anything said, ask a man; if you want anything done, ask a woman. Only a fool would say there has been little or no progress with regard to gender equality since the 1994 election. Many strides have been made and many more still have to be taken. Parliament is a far cry from the years when only one woman sat in these benches. Helen Suzman sat in this Chamber on her own for eight years. As the only woman, the only liberal and the only anti-apartheid MP, Helen Suzman knew exactly what it was like to be a woman in a so-called man's world. But still, the more things change, the more they stay the same. We have yet to have the first female head of any African country. Who knows, maybe we will be the first. I look forward to seeing women taking their rightful place as 06 March 2003 Page 75 of 147 heads of political parties, and a woman as a head of this Government in the future. The Draft Protocol to the African Charter on Human and Peoples' Rights of Women in Africa promotes gender equality throughout Africa. However, no law or protocol is worth the paper it is written on if it cannot be enforced. A glaring example of this is the case of Amina Lawal, a Nigerian woman who bore a child out of wedlock and was sentenced to death by stoning for adultery. Again our Government remains silent on the issue. The protocol outlaws gender-based violence such as rape. [Interjections.] You remain silent and that's a fact. In South Africa over 50 000 women and 22 000 children are raped every year. No one can say that women are free in this country. They are prisoners of fear. Every time they leave their homes and go to work, school or church, they live in fear of being raped. These figures are reported crimes only, and they reflect the situation on the ground that eight women, girls and babies are raped every hour in 06 March 2003 Page 76 of 147 this country. This is a crime committed by men against women. Apart from the horrific trauma a person must go through after being victims, as raped, the there justice is system little - and comfort I'm for sure the many hon Deputy Minister will agree with me - resembles a field of land mines waiting to explode at any time as the victim tries in vain to obtain a successful conviction. Less than 10% of all rapes in this country result in a successful conviction. That means 90% of rapists get away with it. If we were all back at school, the rapists would score an A on their report cards, and the victims would fail dismally. And the hon Deputy Minister calls this empowerment. A national survey on violence against women revealed the following. The seriousness of the problem has, since 1994, been acknowledged at the highest levels of government, evidenced in many speeches, policy statements, strategies and legislation. Violence against women is also the only focus area that has consistently been included in the guidelines and funding frameworks for almost every foreign donor. 06 March 2003 Despite the Page 77 of 147 level of attention, three factors were identified as stumbling blocks to combating the wave of violence against women. The first is that resources and energy have too often been wasted on debates about the extent of the problem and how to measure it. The second is that there are too few projects that aim systematically to monitor and evaluate the impact of the different strategies and responses. This is unfortunate, as our scarce resources need to be directed to those projects that are likely to produce the best results. And thirdly, many of the efforts of both governmental and nongovernmental organisations to research and assist survivors of violence have been focused on metropolitan areas. I took that from the book Violence Against Women, published last year. Another factor that will ensure that many women remain in the grip of poverty is that of HIV/Aids. Currently HIV/Aids infects more women than it does men, as it is easier for women to contract the disease due to biological, social and economic patterns. The current Government's response to the pandemic is to send a mixed bag of messages - a ``Liquorice Allsorts'' response to what is the greatest killing machine this country has ever known. 06 March 2003 Our Government Page 78 of 147 spends more time in court fighting the messenger than being in the field combating the disease. The hon Deputy Minister of Justice talks about empowerment of women. However, when Mugabe's thugs rampaged through Zimbabwe raping suspected MDC supporters, our Government remained silent on that issue. So much for empowerment again, hon Deputy Minister. According to the book AIDS: The Challenge for South Africa, South Africa has the largest number of HIV-infected people of any country in the world. The only nation that comes close in actual numbers is India, with a population of 1 billion, compared to our 42 million. With approximately 2,5 million women facing the death sentence in our country through the Government's refusal to treat HIV-infected people, many people, including myself, are calling it state-sponsored genocide. Another contributing factor to the spread of HIV is that many men still believe that by raping a virgin you will be cured of HIV. This could not be further from the truth. All you are doing is sentencing an innocent child to death. 06 March 2003 Page 79 of 147 What the HIV pandemic does mean for women, though, is that when mothers households. die Many young of girls them take leave over the school, running destroying of any chance of furthering their education, and accept the fact that they will probably have the same fate as their mothers. Men in South Africa have to change their attitudes towards women. They are not beating-boards or sexual objects, and unless we as men make a determined effort to change, the women of our country will never be truly free and neither will we. I thank you very much. [Applause.] Mr B M DOUGLAS: Madam Deputy Speaker, I think that my colleagues who spoke before me have really done justice to this. Minister, so to speak, this is the yawning time of the debate, but nevertheless I shall perhaps focus more on the legacy and the transgenerative effects of colonialism on this debate of today. I am thinking of the body politic of Africa. What worms are within the entrails - as Rousseau would like to have me say - in this body politic and how do we expel them? Yes, it is true that the agenda for peace and security in Africa is 06 March 2003 Page 80 of 147 inescapably tied to humane governance, social, cultural and economic equity, human rights and democracy. I want to compare it to a body: When I talk about the body politic I want us to think of a body. In this instance, I'm thinking of when the brain doesn't give the message to the heart to pump the blood. The lungs then won't function, the kidneys won't perform their excretory function and at the end of the day the whole body will collapse. In this instance, after the collapse of a body a postmortem has to be done. That is why I want to come to colonialism, because a postmortem indeed reveals - according to Prof Nagan - in Africa that Africa has been exploited by historical forces whose collective legacies, especially conflict, are still having lingering transgenerational effects because of the overthrowing of forms of authority, economic and political dislocation, physical cultural abuse, transmutated deprivation, religious disenfranchisement, into the body politic etc. of conversion, This so actually many new democracies in Africa right now. I don't want to mention what happened in the DRC during Belgian rule, where over 50 million people perished, or in Algeria where French institutionalised policies and practices of state terror have in reaction unleashed more 06 March 2003 revolutionary Page 81 of 147 violence, again resulting now in the institutionalisation of the expectation of violence still being prevalent. Let's go back superpower to the support Cold War. immeasurably Seductive protracted embraces for conflicts in Africa, and I can mention what Robert Sobukwe said. He said that this wooing process occurs at a time when the whole continent of Africa is in labour, suffering the pangs of birth, and everybody is looking anxiously to see ukuthi iyozala nkomoni [what the result will be]. Mother Africa nearly had a nervous breakdown when she gave birth to Amin, Leopold Senghor, Someone said Houphouet-Boigny, that the Mobutu superpowers of and the Verwoerd. time were transporting and localising the theatre of the Cold War from the faraway continents to Africa. One should also not forget the consequences of post-war Liberia, Sierra Leone and other African countries with colonially dominated mining enterprises where diamonds and other minerals became the currency for the support of the murder of boys and fathers and children. Let's not talk about Saro-Wiwa, or Patrice Lumumba or other breadwinners 06 March 2003 or about Page 82 of 147 the nonintervention of the United Nations and way the other powers in the Rwandan genocide. Before I become an apologist for whichever or devil's advocate asking for mitigation of sentence in the African Nuremburg trial, let me also ask for reasons that might have prompted Angola, Namibia and Zimbabwe's adventure into the DRC, or for what the 5th Brigade did in Matabeleland there a in balm Zimbabwe. in The Gilead?'' prophet Is the Isaiah asks: ``Is presupposition an axiomatic truth that a democratic state will necessarily engage in good governance? Are society and social organisation structured in a complementary way with regard to the problems of conflict and prevention, as well as developmental imperatives in South Africa, or are we as Africans not simply responding to the cancerous limbs by putting plaster on them rather than amputating them? The Universal Declaration of Human Rights warns that if humanity is to prevent the scourge of war and rebellion, there must be universal respect for human rights, peace and justice. Democracy and human rights are interdependent. The compromising of peace accelerates the process of human rights violation. 06 March 2003 Let us accept Page 83 of 147 the challenge from our President of the country when he said in his opening address to Parliament in 2001: The day will dawn when we, as Africans, will, as all our people desire, restore the situation that obtained at periods now dimmed by the mists of time, when Africans were in the vanguard of the advance towards higher levels of civilisation. Asazi ukuthi iyozala nkomoni kwi-Nepad. [We do not know what the results of Nepad will be.] Thank you. Ms T R MODISE: Deputy Speaker, I do believe that the attainment of peace and democratic governance in Africa is a prerequisite for the realisation of human rights and gender equality for her citizens. My colleagues have come here and they have spoken at length about the steps that South Africa has taken since 1994 to improve the quality of life and status of women. They have also looked at the instruments that we have established to bring equality. They have also spoken about the 06 March 2003 Page 84 of 147 shortcomings in some of these instruments. They have also referred to a number of pieces of legislation that we have passed to try and rectify this. A number of them have also spoken about the rights of the girl child as opposed to those of the boy child. I believe that our definition of peace should include not just the absence of war and conflict, but also the right to expect and receive quality service and respect. We have the right to live without fear as women, we have the right to express ourselves in the many languages of our people, we have right to enjoy the many cultures of Africa without fear or prejudice. We must be dignified, and we must respect one another's views and accept that as women we are not homogeneous and we have the right to differ and to express these differences in the various aspects of our lives. Peace cannot exist without stable conditions for law and order and for the respect of human rights. Peace cannot exist only at certain times and at certain places. Women have the right to feel safe anywhere and everywhere. The violence that we experience workplaces must stop. in our houses and at our 06 March 2003 Page 85 of 147 Continental peace cannot exist without common beliefs and commitments deserve batho to good ba good governance. governments bewe kwa that pele. African will [Put heed the women want their needs. people first.] and A Good government would emphasise good services to the people, a government that will be accountable to its people and a government that will avail itself to scrutiny by its people. We therefore governance suggest and that respect one for of human the measures rights of should be good the extent to which African states recognise women's rights and integrate them into their understanding of what are termed human rights. Mr G B D McINTOSH: What about polygamy? Ms T R MODISE: I am coming to that. Peace cannot exist when resource allocations remain skewed. Democracy must mean the ability of the majority to participate in the political, social and economic life of their country. There is therefore a need to empower people to be equal. If there is no equal democratic access to practices? participation, If the can conditions of we speak most of African 06 March 2003 Page 86 of 147 women are such that equal participation will be limited, can we speak of democracy? We are the majority on the continent, we are also the poorest, we are also the most illiterate, victims of war that we do not begin, victims of rape, of emotional, physical and financial abuse. And yet the world says it is going forward, and we African women seem to be standing in one place and not catching up with our male counterparts. That is why in December I was amongst a small group of African women that went and had talks with the World Bank and insisted that criteria to finance the projects of Nepad must be revised and that the benefiting of native women must be one of those criteria. It is therefore necessary for African leaders to listen to African women. We are, after all, in the majority. South Africa has laid a firm foundation to eradicate corruption in the public and private sector. Is it possible for us to multiply the effects of what we have put into South Africa for the rest of Africa? Is it possible to have continental moral regeneration programmes that will help us develop common values and standards? Is it the right of the minority to take decisions about the fate of the majority 06 March 2003 Page 87 of 147 with continued impunity? Is it then not time for African women to call on our men and our leaders to stop delaying our development by engaging in senseless wars that destroy our land's futures ability of our to produce children and food, reduce that us destroy the sexual and to economic slaves? Is it not time for Africa to listen to women? We want our singing back, we want our laughter back, we want our children's dreams, we want to till our lands. And we Nigerian, demand that Senegalese, respect DRC, return for Burundian, the Sudanese, Somalian, Sierra Leonean and Liberian women. Africa cannot continue to hide behind religious laws and cultural practices that exclude women from the decisionmaking structures of our continent. We cannot be used as adornment and decorations forever. African women must talk about power relations or else the dream of an African Renaissance will remain futile and but a dream. [Applause.] We must honestly discuss whether we must continue to accept the number of wives a man has as a yardstick of his power, his economic status and his sexual prowess. Do we want that as African women? [Interjections.] 06 March 2003 Our Page 88 of 147 Constitution nonsexist and sets out nonracist our South objectives Africa. as These a united, noble ideas must be transplanted to the rest of the continent. Had we done this in time, maybe we would not have had the genocide in both Burundi and Rwanda. African women are still subjected to more restrictions than their men, and girl children are still not exposed to equal school opportunities. So how can we look towards an Africa of tomorrow that is without prejudice, if we do not start correcting expected these to play things? as The African roles women that are we still still are largely determined by the character and orientation of the ruling majorities. Is this the way ahead? Is the way ahead better than the past, or are we still marking time? Yes, it is time for the African women to move forward and to romp to equality and democracy, but to get there we must use our rights to access, to participate in, economic and social activities in our countries. We must utilise the education opportunities and we must exercise our freedoms of association and expression to be where we need to be as women and so say what we need to say. 06 March 2003 Page 89 of 147 The fourth pillar of the struggle against apartheid was the mobilisation of international support and solidarity. We must therefore observe International Women's Day today, remembering our sisters in Israel, in Palestine. We must also express our fears about the possible war against Iraq. We are not only worried about the possible loss of life and property, we are worried about the effects, the impact on our lands, we are worried that Africa's dreams of development for her women might be forced to be delayed. We are worried about the tyranny that we saw unleashed. When the world expresses its disagreement against the war, is it not scandalous that some people do not listen? When women all over the world offer themselves as human shields, is it not time to listen? Must we go and bare our nakedness to Mr Bush before he will listen? Maybe he will understand that the war will not only deprive these women in the Middle East, it will also reduce their lives and their dignity. It will also unleash hardships and reverse all the little gains women have made all over the world. The possible war with Iraq delays our development. It means that democratic processes will be delayed and therefore that the real recognition of the rights of women and the integration thereof into development programmes will not 06 March 2003 Page 90 of 147 take place. This war can only be pleasing manufacturers of war weapons. They are the only people who will make profits. We sat glued to our TV sets, almost unbelieving, because the first people who fled Afghanistan were old women with little children. This, we were told, was going to be the war against terrorism. This was going to liberate the people of Afghanistan against the tyranny of the Taliban. This was going to end their misery and bring peace to these good old people who couldn't have been responsible anyway for the bombs that fell in New York. These were the old people who were not consulted when America helped establish the Taliban. These were the old people who feared for their lives, who had seen the devastation of the so-called war against oppression by foreign troops in Serbia and in Kosovo. These old people, these desperate people like me, could not understand why the guns were aimed at the victims while the murder. so-called These women oppressors literally are puzzled still got and I away am with still puzzled. Why must the world suffer when the Taliban and Bin Laden, Milosevic and Saddam, America's chickens, come home to roost? 06 March 2003 Page 91 of 147 We still watch in horror and helplessness the extent to which human liberation life and has been recognition devalued of in the Palestine. We war for watch the with interest and listen to the sermons about respect for life and human rights. When do we see this in practice? When do we see people practising this and respecting the life of the Palestinian child, the life of the Israeli child, the life of the Israeli and Palestinian women? Our thoughts go to the women of Afghanistan, of India, of Ethiopia and of Eritrea. We congratulate our sisters in Burundi on forging ahead. We also congratulate our sisters in the DRC on getting over all the horrors of the foreign armies that converged on Congo, killing, raping, disinhabiting, looting and maiming. As women of Africa, we are against the deployment of all foreign troops that try to justify their presence in foreign countries to avoid domestic situations such as those in Zimbabwe, in Namibia, in Uganda and in Rwanda. I could go on, because there were Liberia, Nigeria and Ghana, there are Senegal, the Ivory Coast and Sierra Leone - and I could go on and on. I could come back to South Africa a few months ago - in December, to be precise - when, as South African women, we 06 March 2003 Page 92 of 147 were worried sick. We were worried sick because the spectre of the return of violence was hanging over our heads. Never again, never again must we be subjected to the uncertainty that South poised, African was women poised to faced go when into KwaZulu-Natal political or was violent conflict. Never again must we be subjected to the emotional trauma we went through as women of this country. Never again must we remain silent and be taken back to the horrors of multiple funerals and bloodletting that we went through. As a person, as an African woman, if I were to leave any word to my children and my children's children, it would be to ask Africa to awake and to beware that she not be forced to go to sleep again. It would be for us to be vigilant and to let our hearts beat together. It would be to awaken the burning passion in our eyes with our hands of steel on the democracy that we must still forge. It would be to pray and work very hard for democracy and development so that we strengthen the foundations we have laid. We must never allow, not any of us, male or female, the ideas of our vision to fade, to become rusty. If we do, Nkosi Sikelela will be jarring and Mayibuye i-Afrika will become jaded. [Applause.] 06 March 2003 The DEPUTY Page 93 of 147 SPEAKER: That concludes the debate on this subject. Hon members, may I add a word of congratulations in particular for the fact that more than 40% of the people who participated in this debate were male. [Applause.] Debate concluded. PENSIONS (SUPPLEMENTARY) BILL (Introduction) The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Deputy Speaker, this Bill is quite straightforward. A certain Mr Clarke was employed on Marion Island and had been paralysed. He was dissatisfied with the pension of R1 500 per month that the rules of the Government Employees Pension Fund allowed him. He petitioned Parliament. The Portfolio Committee on Private Members Legislative Proposals and Petitions agreed to increase this amount, and so an additional monthly pension of R1 500 per month, with effect from 15 March 2002, and September arrears 2001 additional would be pensions granted in going back terms of to 1 the supplementary Bill here before us. I thank you. [Applause.] 06 March 2003 Page 94 of 147 Bill referred to the Portfolio Committee on Finance for consideration and report. INSURANCE AMENDMENT BILL (Second Reading debate) The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Deputy Speaker, hon members, the insurance industry has been through a torrid period, especially since the events of 11 September 2001, and also as a result of the losses incurred with the economic meltdown in the global economy. What this Bill does is assist our insurance industry here by improving the requirements in three important areas. The first is the prudential soundness of the insurance company; the second is its adherence to good corporate governance; and the third is the protection and education of policyholders. At the end of the day I think that when we look at this Bill, we must look at it from the perspective of two broad areas: the one area which this Bill entrenches and reinforces is consumer protection; and the other area is 06 March 2003 the Page 95 of 147 protection together managed to in of ensure the shareholder that interests interests. insurance of These companies those are insured. come better Thank you, Deputy Speaker. [Applause.] Ms B A HOGAN: Madam Deputy Speaker, the Bill before us refines two major Bills that were put through Parliament in the last parliamentary session - two Bills for short-term and long-term insurance. I'm not going to go into the details of that. When this Bill was introduced, it was covered and canvassed widely. There is a whole range of mainly technical details. The Bill was uncontroversial apart from one issue which arose late in the day. I will explain why we took the position we did on that. There is another issue which I would also like to raise in connection with this Bill. The first issue that the committee was constrained to look at was what was called the famous in duplum rule. In the previous legislation, prior to this new piece of legislation being passed, an exemption was formally granted to the insurance industry to allow it to loan and, when it loaned, for interest to accumulate beyond the amount of the 06 March 2003 Page 96 of 147 capital loaned. That exemption was withdrawn when the two new Bills came before this House in our previous Parliament - in about 1998 or 1999. When the intention amendments was to to remove this that Bill came to us now, exemption so that, the unlike other financial services providers, the insurance industry would now be able to loan and, if that loan was not repaid, the interest could accumulate beyond the value of the capital loaned. A number of our organisations, including the Black Sash and Cosatu, and a number of individuals made submissions to us, and it appeared to us that these had real merit. Firstly, regarding a loan that is granted in terms of a policy, what happens is that quite often the person who makes the loan does not pay back the loan, but when the policy is paid out, he or she takes back the policy less what is owed the company. So this almost becomes a long-term loan. The industry argued that if we withdrew this exemption, people would not be able to borrow against their policies, and also that if this exemption was not granted it would prejudice other people who had bought policies from the 06 March 2003 company loans, Page 97 of 147 concerned these loans because would some not people be would repaid and, be getting therefore, those who were still continuing to pay would be prejudiced. However, when we looked at this it was very clear that those who took loans continued to pay their premiums on their policies. The policies did not cease. They continued to pay the premiums. It seemed to us manifestly unfair that one sector in the financial services industry should enjoy that exemption. But this goes beyond that. It is also manifestly unfair that for a person who does borrow, the debt can accumulate far beyond the amount that was initially borrowed. So on those grounds - and there are more arguments to and fro we felt that we could, unfortunately, not grant the industry that exemption. The second issue which I want to raise - just a small issue raised in the Bill - is related to the short-term insurance industry. The short-term insurance industry may not sell a product and call it a funeral benefit or a funeral policy. The short-term insurance industry only gives loans for a 06 March 2003 Page 98 of 147 year. Therefore, how can they be giving a funeral benefit, a death benefit, for longer than that period of time? But linked to that - and this is a very welcome amendment is the ongoing abuse, which is coming to the attention of our committee, in the funeral industry. We have fly-bynight companies offering funeral benefits, but when people have died those benefits can no longer be accessed. People living with Aids have given evidence to our committees here in Parliament in that often the insurance policies that are taken out don't make it clear that if you take out that insurance policy and you die of Aids, that policy becomes null and void. Horrifying stories have been told to us of people who have taken out such insurance policies where the company has agreed and undertaken to take care of all the funeral arrangements. However, they take the bodies and then refuse to pay out the funeral benefits because they say that the benefits have been nullified by the person dying of Aids and therefore he or she doesn't qualify for the benefits so they do not release the body. The family goes through enormous trauma in trying to bury their dead because the funeral parlours hold onto those bodies. 06 March 2003 Page 99 of 147 This is only the start. Certain members of our committee have already agreed that we want to explore the abuses that are going on in the funeral insurance industry. So this amendment is a welcome step forward in that regard. Thank you very much. [Applause.] Ms R TALJAARD: Madam Deputy Speaker, colleagues, this Bill takes the process of prudential regulation of both longterm and short-term introducing provisions insurance substantive in line new with one step minimal further capital international by adequacy standards. These developments are welcome. Section 59 of the Long-Term Insurance Act and Section 53 of the Short-Term Insurance Act are amended to clarify the law, following two conflicting views expressed in the Supreme Court of Appeal. The proposed amendment favours the judgment Commercial of the Union. court It in the ensures matter that the of Clifford test for v the materiality of a misrepresentation or nondisclosure by an insurer will be an objective test, the question being what a reasonable, prudent person, and not the insurer in a particular situation, would have regarded as material for 06 March 2003 Page 100 of 147 the assessment of the relevant risk. These developments are equally welcome. Clause 22, as well as the new Schedule 3, increases the scope for regulatory discretion in the hands of the FSB. The DA trusts that the insurance industry will be brought into the consultation Actuarial Society liabilities provided and for securities can of SA the in process new this be in between the regarded adequacy and for FSB calculation capital Bill, the in of and assets, requirements determining solvency the what purposes. If industry is not sufficiently consulted in this regard by the regulator, the industry and the regulator will be at constant loggerheads in implementing the new system of prudential requirements and the new prudential provisions. There is a corporate governance early-warning-system provision in section 18 that could act as an important warning impending light of failures any in serious the corporate long-term failures insurance or industry sector. It requires any director or managing executive who resigns, or has his or her appointment terminated, to alert the Financial Services Board to any matter of which he or she may have become aware in the performance of his or her 06 March 2003 Page 101 of 147 duties that may hamper the insurance company's compliance with the provisions of the Insurance Act, as amended by this Bill before the House. This might still prove to be a groundbreaking provision, as concerns about the individual's right not to self-incriminate have been taken into consideration. As Mr pointed Neil Krige out, the of the long-term Life Offices' insurance Association industry has has taken constructive steps to develop a BEE framework to form part of an overall black economic empowerment charter for the financial services sector. As he says: The LOA has therefore initiated a process to analyse the long-term insurance industry's contribution to BEE. These proposed indicators include ownership of companies operating within the industry, management and control of these companies, resources and employment skills development importance to investment activities, desirable the equity industry investments, policies strategies. are financing partnerships guidelines regarding procurement. and corporate of BEE, with human Also of social socially SMMEs and 06 March 2003 Page 102 of 147 This is clearly a holistic approach to the concept of BEE and, I might add, was developed without the strong-arm tactics of the mining charter. The Minister of Finance has now lifted the veil on the financing industry of black across economic all empowerment sectors, not slightly. only the What long-term insurance industry and/or the financial services industry in general, are requiring is certainty, certainty and certainty about the black economic empowerment policy, as it will be rolled out. We require certainty about the enabling legislation and the amendment of existing legislation, including the Industrial Development Corporation Act, the National Empowerment Fund Act and any other ancillary legislation that might require further amendment and/or policy change. These details have to be released as soon as possible by the Department of Trade and Industry. An approach must be adopted - I crucially emphasise: an approach must be adopted - that allows for maximum initiative in the hands and on the part of industry in any and all sectors of the South African economy. 06 March 2003 Page 103 of 147 The DA supports this Bill. [Applause.] Dr G G WOODS: Madam Deputy Speaker, the original Insurance Amendment Bill which was submitted to the Portfolio Committee on Finance comprised 41 clauses, each of which amended provisions in both the Long-Term Insurance Act and the Short-term Insurance Act. It is significant that only one of these proposed amendments was strongly contested, as pointed out a moment ago by the hon Hogan, and this was only by two or three of the 56 parties to whom the Bill was originally referred. The clause in question was that which would have removed the in duplum rule as it stands in the Long-Term Insurance Act and as it currently pertains to loans made by insurers to policy parties, supported motivated holders. the by by In removal the the addition of the National Financial to in the 54 duplum Treasury Services nonobjecting provision and was Board and was strongly the life assurance offices representing the industry. The arguments which they articulated were based on a number of consumer advantages and legal difficulties administering the rule. The rule has long been discarded elsewhere in the 06 March 2003 Page 104 of 147 world, and other arguments were referred to earlier by the hon Hogan. On the other hand there were Cosatu, the Black Sash and an obscure body calling itself the In Duplum Association, which expressed the concern that the removal of the provision could see unscrupulous insurance companies taking advantage of and exploiting those people to whom they had lent, especially regarding the possibilities of excessive interest on the arrear interests of the loans in question. The Financial Services Board countered this by pointing out that the lenders would still be protected under the Usury Act and the Prescription Act, especially regarding interest rates. There was the other issue also referred to earlier on that there was some concern about the lenders getting themselves into problems, but there I think an opposing view was that people in all endeavours of life and all transactions must take some responsibility for themselves, and we as legislators must not try to become part of a nanny state situation. So the committee then, for reasons which I do not fully understand, rejected the proposed amendment without, as far as I could follow at the time, being able to refute the 06 March 2003 Page 105 of 147 actual documented FSB arguments. I felt obliged to abstain from the committee vote on the basis that I found the FSB arguments to be quite compelling and that perhaps there was another way for us to have dealt with the excessive loan situation or the one or two dangers which we had witnessed by way of another inclusion in the Bill. Notwithstanding the difficulty I have with the way the committee considered this particular part of the Bill, the issue in question, when evaluated within the overall scope of the Bill's other amendments - very sound amendments - is simply not a big enough issue to have us oppose the Bill. Thank you. Dr P J members, RABIE: the Madam Deputy Insurance Speaker, Amendment hon Bill Minister, hon provides for amendments to the Long-Term Insurance Act and the ShortTerm Insurance Act. The object of this Bill is to update and consolidate the insurance industry's legal framework in terms of generally accepted international legal principles. It is estimated that 13,5 million South Africans qualify for short- and long-term insurance. The low-income market size is roughly 6 million policy holders with salaries 06 March 2003 between Page 106 of 147 R4 000 and R5 000 per month. The following variables must be seen within the industry as evaluated, namely, first unemployment; and and, foremost, thirdly, inflation; secondly, potential disruptive the effects of HIV/Aids. The Portfolio Committee on Finance discussed this Bill, and a submission stated that the death rate in the low-income market in the 30 to 40 age range is expected to double in the foreseeable future as a result of the impact of Aids. We appeal to all the role-players to take timeous proactive steps to insurance personal enable the products. rules lower-income The viability regarding commercial segment of stop to equity orders afford markets, and the uncapping of commission paid to agents are all factors that affect the long-term viability of the insurance industry as a whole. The South African market is not large enough to absorb risks such as the collapse of a large corporation Koeberg was mentioned - or of a mining house. The importance of this legislation is that it provides for the participation of foreign insurers in the local insurance market. 06 March 2003 In my Page 107 of 147 introduction I said that the role of investor protection in this particular piece of legislation cannot be negated. ombudsman which From 2000 received 85% were to 2002, something dealt with the like 1 long-term 071 successfully. insurance complaints, The of short-term insurance ombudsman received something like 433 complaints, of which 82% were dealt with successfully. Both the longterm and the short-term ombudsmen are funded by the industry as insurers and a fee is debited in respect of each complaint received. The New NP supports this Bill. I thank you. Dr G W KOORNHOF: Madam Deputy Speaker and hon members, the objective of the Insurance Amendment Bill is to update and consolidate the insurance industry's legislative framework in terms of internationally accepted principles and best practice. By amending this Bill today, we are ensuring that we are in step with global events in this industry. In South Africa, the insurance industry is a significant role-player. It is estimated that it contributes an average of 2,5% to the gross domestic product, or R17 billion annually. It employs more than 58 000 people. The market 06 March 2003 Page 108 of 147 capitalisation of the industry on the JSE is estimated at R128 billion. Currently there are a total of 155 short-term and long-term insurers in South Africa - indeed a massive industry. I want to highlight two amendments in the Bill: firstly, the proposed change in the actuarial method of calculating the value of assets, liabilities and the capital adequacy requirement of all long-term insurers. This sets a minimum level at which long-term insurers must spread their assests. Secondly, the Bill proposes that any director or managing executive terminated who by resigns an or insurer whose must appointment inform the has been registrar in future, if so requested, of any matter relating to the affairs of that insurer which may prejudice the insurer's ability to comply with legislation. The recent allegations made by Mr Nic Frangos about poor corporate governance at Corpcapital is a case in point. The UDM supports the Insurance Amendment Bill. I thank you. 06 March 2003 Page 109 of 147 Mr L M GREEN: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. There are many good arguments persuading the ACDP to support this Bill - I have actually prepared two pages of very good arguments especially if you refer to clause 7 and to the issue that the hon Ms Hogan mentioned, but unfortunately I cannot articulate these arguments in one minute. All I can do is say that the ACDP supports this Bill and then sit down. [Interjections.] Miss S RAJBALLY: Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Life insurance, car insurance, fidelity insurance, health care insurance, litigatory insurance - and I am sure we can go on and on. People sign up for these and the killing premiums all the time, but how common it is to find people complaining about the premiums and excesses they are paying or how benefits many - or years how, they on have been signing up, paying they with were minimum under the impression that the insurance would cover this and that, and it did not. Fine print is always there, but most of us seem to fail to take time to read it. The MF feels that in order to allow for fewer people to feel scammed by insurance, legislation should be put in place to control the long-term and short-term insurance 06 March 2003 Page 110 of 147 sphere. An insistence on clarity must be stressed, as must the duty on those selling insurance to spell out shortfalls that the buyer may be faced with. The MF notes that it is important for people, if they are able, to take out insurance for the various things that are valuable to them. But this should be done to your own benefit and to serve ... I can see the light flashing, Deputy Speaker. Insurance must not be a monthly money drainage system that, though it collects a certain amount, attaches to what it covers. The MF supports the Bill. [Applause.] Mr B A MNGUNI: Deputy Speaker, as the hon Green has said, this Bill has a lot to do with the protection of the clients. For instance, in terms of clause 4, when a company changes its name, say from Sanlam to Santam, it has to go via the registrar so that it cannot confuse its clients when they make claims. Also, when protected information a or to director immune the resigns from registrar from a prosecution concerning company, if the he he is gives unethical behaviour of the company, because you might find that the 06 March 2003 Page 111 of 147 company might act unethically in order to get money, or rather to refute clients' claims. So when a director or an executive resigns, he is protected by clause 7 if he gives such information of unethical conduct to the registrar so that proper action can be taken. It does happen sometimes, when you fill in a form, that you forget, or perhaps you think the mistake was minor, or you might think that you are healthy only to find after some time that, according to the insurer, it constitutes a risk. This Bill protects such a person so that if perhaps your age was underestimated or overestimated, the insurer can't say, when you go to claim, that because according to the form you are two years younger or two years older, therefore it won't be able to pay you. This clause protects you so that the insurer honours your claim. Most of our people are low-income earners. Research that was done by WBS on global equity found that there are about six million people in South Africa that go to the banks or pay their premiums through debit orders or stop orders. Now this clause makes sure that even if the bank does not print your name or your policy number on the receipt, you are protected, because banks have sophisticated infrastructures 06 March 2003 Page 112 of 147 that can trace the premiums that you deposited with the insurer. So this Bill does protect you, even if the insurance company might say you have not paid your premium. When you produce that receipt or deposit slip from the bank, you are protected and the insurance company must honour your claim. There are more good things about this Bill. As hon Green said, he couldn't mention all of them. One of the things is that the insurance companies, these days, no longer need permission from the registrar if they want to invest in the SADC countries. Previously they had to get permission from the registrar to invest in other SADC countries. According to this Bill now they no longer have to ask for that permission. I just want to say to the hon colleague Wood that the FSB argument was refuted because when you borrow money, as the hon Comrade Barbara said, the interest cannot accumulate more than the capital you have borrowed. In that way it actually puts most of our people at a disadvantage. There were six reasons given by FSB which were refuted. That is why the FSB argument was refuted, because we saw that it was actually unethical really to let someone borrow R50 000 06 March 2003 Page 113 of 147 and then, at the end of a year, to say, `` You must now pay R150 000.'' That's why we opposed the in duplum route. Lastly, the hon Taljaard says there were strong-arm tactics when the minerals charter was drawn up. The fact is that this Government will not hesitate to empower those who were denied opportunities to participate in the broader economic life of South Africa. Thank you. [Applause.] Die MINISTER VAN FINANSIES: Mev die Adjunkspeaker, dit is die week van veeltaligheid, so ek sal maar probeer om in Afrikaans net baie dankie te sê aan die komitee vir hul werk. Ek dink polishouers is hul belangstelling uitstekend in in hierdie die belange verband. Dit van is belangrik dat die dinge waaroor lede hier gesels het, veral rakende die Raad op Finansiële Dienste en hulle benadering, en die feit dat hulle gekorrigeer is deur die komitee, vir ons sê dat demokrasie werk. Weer eens baie dankie. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.) [The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Madam Deputy Speaker, it is multilingualism week so I will, in Afrikaans, try just to say thank you very much to the committee for their work. I think their concern for the interests of policy holders is 06 March 2003 Page 114 of 147 excellent in this regard. It is important that the things which members talk about here, especially regarding the Financial Services Board and their approach, and the fact that they were rectified by the committee, tells us that democracy works. Once again thank you very much. [Applause.]] Debate concluded. Bill read a second time. DIVISION OF REVENUE BILL (Second Reading debate) The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Mhlalingaphambili [Madam Speaker], hon members, the Bill is the embodiment of co-operative governance, which is at the very heart of our Constitution. The division of resources among the three spheres of Government is one of the most critical steps in the Budget process as it provides the basis for the preparation of the national, 9 provincial and 284 municipal budgets for the next financial year. 06 March 2003 The Page 115 of 147 explanatory attachments also contain detailed information on the formula for the provincial and local equitable share allocations, and a detailed framework on each conditional grant to a province or municipality. The Bill therefore province and provides critical municipality and information for every for every national and provincial department to prepare its budget. I want to emphasise that this Bill deals with aggregate allocations only, and not how these funds are to be spent. The national allocation Government through therefore does the not allocates its Appropriation appropriate for equitable share Bill. This the budgets Bill of departments or sectors and does not indicate what outputs the allocations will buy and what outcomes would be accomplished. We will deal with these in a separate report, the Intergovernmental Fiscal Review, which should be available in roughly a month's time. In respect of the allocations, the heart of this Bill is in Schedule 1, which allocates funds to the three spheres of government. national Of the Government R334 is billion budgeted allocated R185,2 for 2003-04, billion. This allocation includes R54 billion for debt-servicing costs 06 March 2003 and the Page 116 of 147 contingency Government with R138 reserve, leaving billion to the national allocate to its departments. In respect of the provincial equitable share, R142 billion is allocated, and for local government the equitable share component provinces, is R6,3 including billion. both The the total allocation equitable share for and conditional grants, increases from R137 billion this year to R159 billion in 2003-04, rising to R192 billion in the fiscal year which ends on 31 March 2006. In respect of the provinces, the Budget maintains strong growth in the infrastructure allocations development and targeted for maintenance, provincial rising from R1,6 billion in the present fiscal year to R3 billion in the third year. Provinces will receive R8 billion from the infrastructure grant over the period, an increase of about 25% per year. It is anticipated that provinces will use this grant effectively to deal with infrastructure backlogs in schools, health facilities and provincial roads. However, it also strengthens Government's efforts to deal with pressures arising from HIV/Aids on provincial budgets. 06 March 2003 Page 117 of 147 Earmarked allocations for HIV/Aids amount to R2,1 billion over the period. In addition, provinces are also expected to allocate at least R1 billion more in this year's MTEF from their budgets towards HIV/Aids programmes for prevention and support to those infected and affected. In respect of local government, the 2003 budget is mainly targeted towards the provision of free basic services, the extension of services to areas not currently serviced and job creation through investment in labour-based infrastructure programmes. In total R4,1 billion over the 2003 MTEF is made available for water, electricity, refuse removal and sanitation as part of the Government commitment to providing free basic services. Let me conclude by noting that it is now six years since the introduction of the current fiscal framework for provincial and local governments. Much has happened since the creation of our nine provinces and municipalities, including the passage of foundation-laying legislation, the establishment of co-operative governance institutions such as the Budget Council, Budget forums and Minmecs. 06 March 2003 Page 118 of 147 If one looks at what we have made available in this Bill, it is very clear that the accompanying information goes far beyond the legal requirements set out in the Constitution and other relevant statutes. The additional information provided with the Bill represents for us another milestone in enhancing political oversight and transparency and ensuring accountability. More importantly, the allocation of all local government grants per municipality further deepens co-operative governance in the budget allocation process. The announcement was made last week, four months ahead of the due date for local government budgets. I have pleasure in placing the Division of Revenue Bill before this House. I also want to take this opportunity to wish Shahid Khan a very happy birthday. [Applause.] Mr N M NENE: Madam Deputy Speaker and hon members, the Bill before us today fulfils a fundamental constitutional requirement, namely section 214(1), which directs that an annual Act division of of Parliament nationally must raised determine revenue the among equitable the three spheres of government. This is also done in accordance with the Intergovernmental Fiscal Relations Act, Act 97 of 1997, 06 March 2003 Page 119 of 147 which establishes forums and outlines various consultation processes that precede the tabling of this Bill. The Freedom Charter visualises a standard of living for our people that would liberate them from poverty and want, and the indignity of human deprivation. It says: ``The people shall share in the country's wealth'', but unless there is equitable distribution of resources, this vision remains but a dream. Appropriately this Bill then provides for the following: the equitable division of revenue anticipated to be raised nationally, among all three spheres of government, for the 2003-04 financial year; the promotion of co-operative governance and principles of intergovernmental relations on budgetary matters; the promotion of better co-ordination between policy planning, budget preparation and execution processes; the promotion of predictability and certainty in respect of all allocations to provincial and local governments in order that such governments may plan their budgets over transparency a and multiyear equity in period; all the promotion allocations and of of accountability for the use of public resources by ensuring that all transfers are reflected on the budgets of 06 March 2003 Page 120 of 147 benefiting provincial and local governments; and ensuring that legal proceedings between organs of state and the three spheres of government are avoided. Indeed, the tide has turned and there is no turning back in the struggle against poverty. This Bill is the culmination of an exhaustive Government consultative priorities, as process. outlined in In the keeping with Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement, the national departments receive 40,4% of the allocations, the provinces receive 56% and local government gets 3,6%. I will leave out the bigger figures, because the Minister has already mentioned them. The shares of both provincial and local governments have been increasing in the past few years and they continue to increase significantly in the MTEF period. The provincial allocation increases from 56% to 57,6%, while that of local government increases from 3,6% to 4,4% in 2005-06. These increases take place at the cost of national Government, which has decreased from 40,5% to 38%. Section 214 of the Constitution requires that the annual Division of Revenue Act be enacted only after account is taken of factors such as the national interest, provision 06 March 2003 Page 121 of 147 of debt, the needs of national Government and emergencies, the allocation of resources to provide basic services and meet developmental needs, efficiency of particular importance disparities and provincial and is the fiscal capacity and governments. Of and local the reduction the promotion of national interest and of economic stability and predictability. As regards the the division of resources, these governance goals benefit the nation as a whole. Of primary importance are policy objectives such as the reduction of inequality, unemployment, crime, poverty and vulnerability. Looking at economic disparities, the infrastructure grant and the equitable share formulae are redistributive municipalities disparities because between municipalities. provincial towards Fiscal government the poor of economic and within capacity have been provinces and demographic provinces and and efficiency improved by and in the implementation of the Public Finance Management Act. The pending promulgation of the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Bill is expected to do the same in local government over the next five years. 06 March 2003 Page 122 of 147 This Bill is but one instance of the abundant evidence that the ANC Government is serious about service delivery that will push back the frontiers of poverty and bring about a better life for all. I invite hon members to take time to look at the figures of these allocations and then to assist in ensuring that these allocations achieve their desired objectives. I trust that we will support this Bill as a demonstration of our commitment to pushing back the frontiers of poverty. [Applause.] Ms R TALJAARD: Deputy Chair, colleagues and Minister, the Division of Revenue Bill seeks to allocate the funds identified in the Budget to the three spheres of government and seeks to respond, in accordance with section 214 of the Constitution, to the substantive recommendations made by the FFC. Among these recommendations, the FFC made a call for a review of the intergovernmental fiscal relations, as our experiences must spark more efficiency gains and constant improvement. The DA echoes this call of the FFC. In terms of the Division of Revenue Bill, national Government's share of revenue in this Budget year declines 06 March 2003 Page 123 of 147 from 40,4% to 38,9% in 2003-04 and just 38,0% at the end of the MTEF increases period. period, from The while 56,8% local to provincial 57,6% government at governments' the share end of of revenue share the MTEF increases from 3,6% in 2002-03 to 4,3% in 2003-04 and then remains relatively static over the MTEF period. The Division of Revenue Bill is largely a replica of the 2002 version. provisions. equitable However, There share is a there new allocations are three clause to 5 new substantive dealing local with the government. It contains potentially contentious provisions on the stopping of funds from the National Treasury to local government. These provisions pre-empt the current discussions on the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Bill. Secondly, there is a new clause 8 on transfers to national public entities, such as Eskom and water boards, performing municipal service functions. The provision requires such entities to formally be deemed to be external mechanisms for purposes Municipal of Systems provisions of Act. entities These the Local will Government: therefore be more accountable to local government in accordance with the reporting requirements for public entities and external 06 March 2003 Page 124 of 147 mechanisms in the systems Act as well as the new clause 8. This provision is obviously welcomed. The new clauses 15 and 17 obligate provinces to publish local government grants per municipalities, a further step that will enhance increased transparency and therefore the abilities to exercise oversight and enhance accountability. The most problematic provision of this Bill for the DA, however, is clause 5. It presents a number of difficulties. It pre-empts Municipal key provisions of the Finance Management Bill Local and Government: deals with the stopping of funds to a municipality where that municipality seriously or persistently breaches uniform treasury norms and standards. As the process around the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Bill still has to resolve the question of the reach of what could be construed as a uniform treasury norm and standard, and this question has obvious and clear constitutional implications, the DA does not believe it to be sound legislative practice to pre-empt the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Bill with the new clause 5 in the Bill before the House today. This forms process. part While of one a different can legislative understand and, to deliberative an extent 06 March 2003 perhaps, Page 125 of 147 sympathise with National Treasury's slight impatience, this is bad legislative practice. It is clear that one would have to weigh this provision against the support for the Division of Revenue Bill. Obviously we cannot oppose the Division of Revenue Bill purely and solely because of clause 5 and we will not. We support the Division of Revenue Bill. We do, however, believe that it is bad legislative practice and it must not be repeated. The only saving grace is that this provision is only in force for one year and will, indeed, hopefully be undercut by the subsequent enactment of the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Bill. As the new Bill has taken - and I must compliment the National Treasury - a quantum leap in transparency and the quality of information provided and contained in its annexures, the oversight challenge now rests with the NCOP and the Select Committee on Finance for a more in-depth analysis and comments on Treasury's comments on the FFC recommendation and, indeed, the adequacy of the equitable share allocations and grants. 06 March 2003 Page 126 of 147 Minister, I echo your sentiments to Mr Khan, particularly given the fact that he survived a hijacking attempt this weekend. We would also like to wish him a happy birthday. [Applause.] Dr G G WOODS: Chairperson, the hon Nene and the hon Taljaard have done a great job of covering all the more important issues, and I think that just leaves me to make a few incidental observations. The first might be that one notes over the years that the Bill is growing in scope. It seems to be going way beyond its constitutional requirement of just talking about the equitable division of nationally raised revenue and any other allocations to the second and third tiers of government. It is now going on to show a tendency to governance, get into areas administration and of financial distribution management, methods and even objects, and it goes beyond the objectives of the Bill as well. Where these peripheral provisions concern accountability arrangements, I think there is a case for their inclusion, but for the rest I am wondering if these would not be better accommodated elsewhere in law. 06 March 2003 Page 127 of 147 Another issue, to repeat one mentioned by the hon Taljaard, is the accompanying Annexure E. I think in previous years the committee accompany had the requested Bill as that required this in annexure section indeed 10 of the Intergovernmental Fiscal Relations Act, as opposed to only appearing in the Treasury's Budget Review document. This year, for the first time, the Treasury obliged, and I could not help noticing how convenient this was for members of the committee when processing the Bill. Thanks to the Treasury for that. Regarding the actual divisions, I think my party has done the obvious by looking at the KwaZulu-Natal province's division and the basis of its calculation. Here we are happy to report participatory followed and in that we transparent the are satisfied nature establishment of of the with the the process horizontal formulation, and we concur that the KwaZulu-Natal province, the most populated province, will, in our opinion, receive an equitable share of nationally collected revenues. We do, however, have a small issue to resolve regarding the welfare portion demographic of features the KwaZulu-Natal peculiar to the allocation, province and where the 06 March 2003 Page 128 of 147 effects of the welfare component, which is part general allocation and part conditional grant, seem to leave the province, in our opinion, a little short-changed, but I believe the MEC of the province is taking that up with the Minister. A final observation perhaps might be to express a few thoughts on the Financial and Fiscal Commission, FFC, and its essential constitutional responsibilities, which concern it exercising its mind on the divisions of revenue. To me it seems that the FFC has now developed into a body which is in command of its subject matter and, through various research and analytical exercises, is demonstrating an ability to undertake work of a high and relevant quality and, as it would seem, work that is now being considered by the National Treasury. But notwithstanding this apparent progress on the part of the FFC, I, for one, have never fully appreciated the need for the FFC, especially as the Constitution gives it no decision-making authority, only an advisory authority, and it is therefore of little effect should Treasury disregard it. I would go further to say that the commission does not seem to do anything that the National Treasury is not capable of 06 March 2003 Page 129 of 147 doing, and I suspect that there are those in the National Treasury who would silently agree with me on this issue. The IFP supports the Division of Revenue Bill and thanks the National Treasury for the sound and thoughtful work that is put into its compilation and also for the high quality of the schedules that accompany the Bill. The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon Minister of Finance, you might see that the gallery is filling up. I think the young people of South Africa want to see how the Minister of Finance and this Parliament look after their scarce resources. [Interjections.] [Applause.] Welcome to Parliament. Dr P J members, RABIE: the Deputy Division Chairman, of Revenue hon Minister Bill provides and hon for the equitable division of revenue raised nationally among the national, provincial and local spheres of government. The reporting requirements of allocations and the permission regarding the withholding and delaying of payments certain circumstances are also clearly spelt out. in 06 March 2003 Page 130 of 147 This Bill is the product of a consultative process, with the Financial Medium-Term assessing and Fiscal Expenditure Commission, Framework, developmental needs. A in terms and other number of of the bodies economic disparities are identified and the needs regarding schools, hospitals, clinics and housing are clearly mentioned. Flexibility regarding contingency funds in case of emergencies through a contingency reserve that provides a cushion for unforeseeable and unavoidable expenditure is also provided for. Sections 16 and 25 of the Public Finance Management Act make specific provision for the allocation of these specific funds. I think it themselves is important with the for hon equitable members share to formula acquaint used to allocate funds - which is, after all, the essence of this particular piece components or of legislation indices used, - to namely, provinces education, and the health, welfare, population and economic and institutional output. The equitable share for local government is also clearly spelt out. Appendix E2 provides a brief description of conditional grants to local government. The significance of these grants, the conditions, criteria for allocation, 06 March 2003 rationale Page 131 of 147 for funding, monitoring mechanisms, projected life of the grant and the capacity and preparedness of the transferring department are also mentioned. Statistical used. data taken Appendix municipalities E4 and from the shows 2001 census infrastructure Appendix E5 indirect are widely grants to grants to municipalities. To conclude, Appendix E7 is important because it shows the demographic data and local government equitable share regarding the population in a number of urban and nonurban local authorities. Before I conclude, allow me also to congratulate Mr Khan, the representative of Treasury to the Portfolio Committee on Finance. He is celebrating his birthday. Many happy returns and thank you for the sterling work that you are doing. The New NP supports the Bill. [Applause.] The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon members, Ms Bogopane, who is the chairperson of the Joint Monitoring 06 March 2003 Page 132 of 147 Committee on Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Children, Youth and Disabled Persons, has given me a note. The people who are in the gallery are the girls from the different provinces - I think it is 20 per province - who will be attending the Girls' Education Movement launch on 7 March, tomorrow, in the Old Assembly Chamber, Parliament of the Republic interesting of South short Africa. title of They GEM, go which by is the the very Girls' Education Movement. [Applause.] To all of you young people, you are indeed very welcome. This Parliament is committed to ensuring that young people, and girls in particular, are given every opportunity to develop to potential their in fullest this extent country. and Welcome to to their our fullest Parliament. [Applause.] Dr G W KOORNHOF: Mr Deputy Chair and hon members, despite the fact that this House has no powers to amend the Division of Revenue Bill, it remains an important money Bill because it provides for the equitable division of revenue raised nationally among the national, provincial and local spheres of government for the 2003-04 financial year. 06 March 2003 Page 133 of 147 Due to time constraints I will only concentrate on local government, which represents the sphere closest to service delivery. The Financial and Fiscal Commission, the FFC, in its submission on this Bill, states the following: A growing concern for the intergovernmental fiscal system is the increase in municipal deficits over the last three years. It would appear that further increases are expected for the next two years. It is estimated that municipalities are owed a staggering R22,5 billion for rates and service charges as at 31 March 2002. The role envisaged for local government to provide services is being seriously compromised by this consumer debt crisis. We urgently need steps at both national and municipal levels to prevent further consumer debt escalation. Regarding the equitable share for local government, we therefore agree with the provision that National Treasury may delay or withhold the transfer of an instalment in certain circumstances. Furthermore, municipalities that are not able to effectively administer an allocation will see such allocations transferred to the province or to another 06 March 2003 Page 134 of 147 municipality. We simply cannot afford to throw money down a bottomless pit any more, and we support this provision that the Minister has put in. In conclusion may we also wish Mr Shahid Khan a very happy birthday. He is a valued member of Team Finance, but he is also a very good friend of the Portfolio Committee on Finance. [Applause.] The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: I think the Chair might as well join all the members in wishing Mr Shahid Khan a very happy birthday. [Applause.] Mr L M GREEN: Deputy Chairperson, this Division of Revenue Bill is substantial. It consists of 185 pages, and therefore I think we should actually be quite serious when we debate it. To allocate 40 minutes to debate this Bill is not acceptable, because you have to comment on the equitable share for local government and on so many other things, and yet you are given one single minute to do that. [Interjections.] We are not serious when it comes to democracy and to democratic debate. [Interjections.] How can one debate ... [Interjections.] 06 March 2003 The DEPUTY Page 135 of 147 CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon Green, will you take your seat. [Interjections.] Hon Green, I am addressing you. There are avenues open in this House to deal with the type of matter that you want to be brought forward and that would be by way of a substantive motion. I think that in respect of the Bill, the convention is that you will have to confine yourself to what is in the Bill. So if you would please do that. Mr L M GREEN: Chairperson, the ACDP doesn't have any time to comment on the Bill. There is nothing we can say. Let me just conclude by wishing Shahid Khan a happy birthday. That is about all we can say. We can't debate this. It's ridiculous. [Interjections.] Miss S RAJBALLY: Thank you, Chairperson. Shahid, happy birthday. I want some birthday cake. Deputy Chair, it's again that time of the year when we all eagerly wait to know the Budget funding allotted to the various sectors that are to put our aims into action. 06 March 2003 Page 136 of 147 The Division of Revenue Bill is especially important in that it is a sharing of revenue between the three spheres of government, namely national, provincial and local. Further, the division within these is extremely important and the MF understands the pressure and brain-strain it must take to attain equitable estimates. KwaZulu-Natal is the most densely populated province. With more people there, there are more needs, and more needs spell more challenges. The province is also estimated to be the zone worst affected by HIV. This poses one of the greatest challenges, not forgetting housing, other health issues, education, social services, the Public Service and many other portfolios that fulfil basic human survival needs. The estimated budget allotted to the KwaZulu-Natal province is welcomed by the MF, which supports the Bill. Thank you. [Applause.] Mr F C FANKOMO: Deputy Chairperson, hon members, it gives me pleasure to thank you all here. Mr Green has given me the chance of an extra minute, and therefore I should have seven minutes. 06 March 2003 According required Page 137 of 147 to section that 214 Parliament of the Constitution, should enact the it is equitable division of revenue raised nationally. This is to be done through provincial and local government. I will concentrate only on the equitable share that is given to local government. In support of Intergovernmental the Constitution, Fiscal Relations section Act of 10 1997 of the requires that when the Minister of Finance introduces the annual Budget each year, he must introduce a Division of Revenue Bill which relates to the current Budget. The Bill under review is introduced in compliance with the requirements of the Constitution and the Intergovernmental Fiscal Relations Act. The Bill seeks to enhance transparency and certainty in the municipal transfers and budgets. The previous Division of Revenue Act introduced reforms of the intergovernmental fiscal transfer system which have improved functioning. The current Division of Revenue Bill introduces amendments to those sections that affect local government allocation. For example, the Bill provides for the allocation of a 06 March 2003 Page 138 of 147 local government equitable share that allows, for the first time, for the publication of the division per municipality when the annual Budget is tabled. It also provides for delaying the equitable shares to municipalities if they fail to provide basic information. The purpose of this is to ensure that the municipalities do provide basic information indicating how the provision of basic services is catered for. This Bill also requires the provision of public information on the municipality's own allocations by tabling their budgets and recognising the service authority role of municipalities. Currently, the provincial share transfers for Limpopo amount to R728 890 with a projection of R842 370 for the next year. One of its districts will have to receive an amount of R101 322 with a projection of R115 104, which means that one of its municipalities, Bushbuckridge, receives an amount of R56 520 with a projection of R56 858 for the coming year. This shows that the ANC-led Government seeks to push back the frontiers of poverty in our society through political such as this one. mechanisms and legislative procedures 06 March 2003 Municipalities Page 139 of 147 take responsibility for the delivery of services in their jurisdictions. This means that all grants provided to public entities such as Eskom and water boards for the provinces should be negotiated with municipalities. Municipalities are assisted by the national Government with unconditional grants to supplement their revenue to deliver services to poor households. The criteria used for the provision of the equitable share were developed at a time when there was no information regarding population, income, demographics, fiscal capacity and backlogs. Budget and costing information was not available. Hence this legislation attempts to implement the equitable share referred to in section 227 of the Constitution. I thank you. [Applause.] The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Thank you, Chairperson. I don't know why the Girls' Education Movement ran away, but I didn't mean to scare them. Let me express appreciation. I'm really sorry that the hon Green feels so strongly about the issue of time. But I saw the hon Rajbally, with the same amount of time, make a profound input about the constituency she represents and 06 March 2003 Page 140 of 147 the impact of this Bill on her life and the lives of people around her. It's just a pity that he chose to argue as he did. In respect of the points by the hon Woods on the FFC, I think that all of the Chapter 9 institutions are like that. I take the view that the FFC is an umbrella, and because the sun is shining you don't want to sell the umbrella. So it's there. It will have an important role to fulfil at some time. I think for as long as it is there to maintain the interests of people within the FFC, it's important that we construct a relationship that's positive and constructive for them. In their inputs they took a particular view on the contingency reserve. It's one that I happen to disagree with, but it's an indication of the fact that they are there and trying. I would like to address the issues that the hon Taljaard raised in respect of section 5(6) in particular. She says that this is an attempt to pre-empt the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Bill. The origin of section 5(6) is in the Constitution in section 216(2), which is a 06 March 2003 precursor also Page 141 of 147 to how we style our relations with the provinces. It says: The national treasury must enforce compliance with the measures established in terms of subsection (1), and may stop the transfer of funds to an organ of state if that organ of state commits a serious or persistent material breach of those measures. So it's not about the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Bill. It's about the Constitution and constructing a basis for constitutionality in the Division of Revenue Bill. Clearly, it's there as a measure to try and strengthen, government published is early because the moral the the risk hazard equitable in respect problem. share We of local have now to each allocations local authority. Now we've got to see how this is used. We've indicated in consultation with them that there has to be a focus on the provision of free basic services. So the basis for consultation is there, but the enduring problem in respect of local government is the debt. It's a situation that has relations between impacted, municipal as we government all and know, the on the Auditor- 06 March 2003 General. But Page 142 of 147 if we merely make good without requiring certain steps from local government, then we'll fail, I think, democracy in this country, because very importantly, what local government needs is to implement a policy on indigence. It has to circumstances be a to policy the where local people volunteer government where their their circumstances can be measured. They should be put on a register and you can then separate debt which is bad debt, because it can't be paid by people who are just too poor to pay, from the debt of those people who actually ought to be paying and where there needs to be much stronger enforcement. That's part of the discourse between ourselves and local government. It's a very important part of this, and so the provisions in section 5(6) also have that at the back of the mind. Clearly, the passage of the Local Government: Municipal Finance Bill will assist in this regard because it will order the way in which local authorities budget and report on their money. 06 March 2003 Page 143 of 147 Again, chairperson, hon members, thank you very much for the support. [Applause.] Debate concluded. Bill read a second time. The House adjourned at 17:01. __________ ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS ANNOUNCEMENTS: National Assembly and National Council of Provinces: 1. Introduction of Bills: (1) The Minister of Finance: (i) Pensions (Supplementary) Bill (National Assembly - sec 77). [B 11 - 2003] 06 March 2003 Page 144 of 147 Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on Finance of the National Assembly, as well as (JTM) referral for to the classification Joint in Tagging terms of Mechanism Joint Rule 160, on 6 March 2003. In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of the Bill may be submitted to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) within three parliamentary working days. TABLINGS: National Assembly and National Council of Provinces: Papers: 1. The Speaker and the Chairperson: Report of the Office of the Auditor-General on the Budget of Income and Expenditure for 2003-2004 [RP 112003]. 2. The Minister of Home Affairs: 06 March 2003 Page 145 of 147 A list of approved early naturalisation applications in terms of section 5(9) of the South African Citizenship Act, 1995 (Act No 88 of 1995). Copies of the list of applications are available at the Office of the Clerk of Papers on request. 3. The Acting Minister of Transport: Report of the Regulating Committee for Airports Company of South Services Africa Company and Ltd the for Air Traffic 2001-2002, and Navigation established in terms of section 11 of the Airports Company Act, 1993 (Act No 44 of 1993). 4. The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development: (a) Proclamation No R 6 published in Government Gazette No 24351 dated 7 February 2003: Commencement of sections 8 to 13, 15 to 22 and 24 to 28 of the Debt Collectors Act, 1998 (Act No 114 of 1998). 06 March 2003 Page 146 of 147 (b) Government Notice No R 185 published in Government Gazette No 24351 dated 7 February 2003: Regulations made in terms of section 23 of the Debt Collectors Act, 1998 (Act No 114 of 1998). (c) Government Notice No R 186 published in Government Gazette No 24351 dated 7 February 2003: Determination of date for the purposes of section 8(1), made in terms of the Debt Collectors Act, 1998 (Act No 114 of 1998). (d) Government Notice No R 239 published in Government Gazette No Determination 24393 of dated amounts 14 for February the 2003: purposes of certain provisions of the Criminal Procedure Act, 1977 (Act No 51 of 1977) made in terms of the Act. COMMITTEE REPORTS: National Assembly: 1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Minerals and Energy on the Geoscience Amendment Bill [B 7 - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 5 March 2003: 06 March 2003 The Page 147 of 147 Portfolio having Committee considered the on Minerals subject of the and Energy, Geoscience Amendment Bill [B 7 - 2003] (National Assembly sec 75), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, reports the Bill without amendment.