Event: Telling Tales Out of School #2
Oral History Project Interviews
Location: Old Lyme Town Senior Center
Date: March 6, 2010
Interviewee: Edward G. Perkins (Ned)
Interviewer: Mark Lander
Do you have a particular topic that you would like to talk about today or a direction
you’d like our interview to follow?
No, I just sat down and thought of four things I’ve been involved with. One is the Board
of Finance, one is Church Parsonage restoration, Old Lyme Congregational Church
Parsonage, one was the town band, you probably have more information about the town
band than I do, and I’m now involved with McCurdy Salsbury Educational Foundation.
OK, just a little bit of background, how long have you lived in Old Lyme?
1972 we moved here and bought Diddy Dingwall’s house on Academy Lane. We spent
30 plus years fixing it up. I think we finally have it.
Those projects have a way of never getting finished. Just when you think they are
its time to redo something else. OK, of the four areas you mentioned that you might
like to talk about, which one is chronologically the first?
The first would have been the parsonage restoration. We came here, Rev. Good gave me
a choice, this was 1975, I guess, I could either be, we asked me would you like to chair
the elderly housing committee or the parsonage restoration, and I said I think I’ll take the
parsonage restoration. I think I chose the right thing. But part of my job was to try to get
some state funding. We got about $3,500 state funding for a $75,000 project so that was
hard to do. But Merv Roberts really was the property manager. He began the project
with his son-in-law Ed Ritz. They did a lot of background work of just shoring up the
foundation and a lot of the basement work and things and we had a committee and we
had to decide how far do we go with the restoration. What can we afford? Well, you
begin tearing up the layer of floor and you find under it beautiful old stenciling and you
work on a wall and you find behind this wall is a fireplace that has been boarded up. And
so we just went piece by piece and we took it back to its original. That was a big
decision because George Tatum who was my neighbor, architectural historian, helped me
out with that. We got Society for the Protection of New and Antiquities involved and
they came back and said stop because that empire period was the best period of the
house. You know we were finding all these treasure that had been covered up. This
beautiful old molding and George told me on the side, he said because they’re losing so
much of that period that’s why they probably want you to stop. We decided no we’re
going to continue, so we did things like adding a new addition of a new kitchen because
the house had to be livable. Rev. Hoag had lived there for 53 years. And had been
nothing done to it. I heard stories that the ladies of the church would want to go in and
paint when the Hoags went away and the Hoags wouldn’t go away, they would stay home
when they heard about it because they didn’t want anything changed, anything touched so
the place needed a lot of work. So we did that and then David and Corinne Good moved
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in and it’s still working. We had the kind of meetings that ladies would leave in tears at
night. You’re trying to make decisions about colors and how far back you take and a lot
of history that was involved. But we got through it, we got a good project. But that’s
behind me.
Do you feel that the house is in a good state of preservation now?
It’s in a very good state of preservation. The problem the church has now is that the
minister doesn’t live there and we have the church secretary living there. We’ve had
other ministers living there, but at the moment they want to live in their own houses and
build their own equity. That was the problem that Mrs. Hoag had, when Rev. Hoag died,
the church let him live in the house even after he retired and so when he died she had no
place to go. So the church paid to put her in The Boxwood. David has his house up in
Lyme, but David feels very strongly, you know, some folks say should we try and sell the
parsonage, but David feels very strongly that for two reasons: he thinks that a new
minister should live in the parsonage for a period of time just to be part of the community
and secondly, a new minister coming in may not be able to afford to live in Old Lyme.
You don’t want your new minister living in Moodus. So for that reason, we still have the
parsonage and it costs us an arm and a leg to maintain it every year, but its done. The
church has the resources to do it.
I’ve heard this tradition among certain denominations that when a minister retires
he’s expected to move out of town. Of course, that sort of protects David Good I
guess, he’s already moved out of town. And I think the Congregational Church got
around that with Dick Hoag by naming him Pastor Emeritus which allowed him,
and giving him the responsibility for the South Lyme Chapel which kind of kept
him in an active capacity and allowed him a place to stay.
We moved to town in 1972. Barbara’s dad had been a state senator and he came over
with me and we were looking at what’s Old Lyme about. He said let’s go to church. We
went to church on a Sunday morning, he and I and I said to him, I hope there’s a doctor in
a house because the age of the people was well up there. And its interesting because we
came here being a younger family, Rev. Tweed was the minister at the time for two or
three years I guess, and Barbara and I were to go to a function at the church. We wound
up vacuuming the floor when you’re done because there was no church office, no
telephone, no real organization to the church, Rev. Hoag and his wife did everything.
Part of our involvement when we came here was to draw up by-laws, set up committees,
so Barbara and I in our tenure here, have probably been chairman of almost every board
in the church at one time or another. They still drag me in for fundraising, stewardship
events. I’m lucky now, we have a son-in-law who lives in Essex, he had taken that over.
Maybe the historical society should look into doing something on Dick Hoag. He
was certainly a legend in Old Lyme and quite a character too.
And the person to talk to would be David Good because David has just a tremendous
amount of respect for Rev. Hoag. David came here from Yale as an intern working with
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us while he was a student at the Divinity School there. Then he took a year off from Yale
and went down to Appalachia and he was preaching in 3 or 4 churches on a Sunday, he
and Corrine and he came back and finished up at Yale, came back to us as an intern and
that’s the point we had Rev. Tweed and the church decided that there had to be a change.
So when David graduated young as he was, he became our interim minister and he just
grew every week but Rev. Hoag was still here at his mentor. I recall someone saying to
me one day, Barbara was on the search committee, and you know when you read these
resumes, you don’t know what’s behind it, and David just grew every week and someone
said to me, if we don’t hire this person, we’ve made a tremendous big mistake. We hired
David and he stuck. He’d be a great resource to talk about Rev. Hoag.
Board of Finance, I went on the Board of Finance in 1977 I believe. My next door
neighbor Ruth Sayers was on the Republican Town Committee and she called me and
said we have an opening, a person who was running for the board is moving out of town
and would you consider stepping into his place. And I said sure and so I was up for
election. It was Don Brodeur and Joe Ford and then my name was below Don’s and a
blank space. The blank space got more votes than I did. That was my start. So I didn’t
make the board that must have been 1976. Don Brodeur, in 1977 decided he was going
to step aside and so they appointed me to the board to take his place and then I became
chairman about 1979 and was chairman for 12 years and then Tim Griswold took over. I
stayed on the board for four more years after my chairman’s term. But I spent 20 years
on the Board of Finance, which was great experience. Those days we didn’t have
computers when I started and I used to put the budget together using these old spread
sheets, by hand, saying please don’t add any line items, I can’t white out anything else to
fit in here. You’d cut and paste, and we didn’t really have politics. One of my favorite
stories, Bill Sheldon was a democrat on the Board of Finance and he said to me one night
after a meeting, why don’t you ever appoint a democrat as the voting alternate. I said
well I did tonight. He said he’s a democrat, and I said yes. We liked it that way that you
went and did a job. We had Lea Marsh on the Board, we had Perry Garvin, just people
that had interest in the town and we left all that stuff outside. You did what you had to do
and we always had the issue of the beaches. We had the budget voted down once
because we went back and gave the beaches $5,000 more for their protection fund and it
solved the problem. The beaches pay 33% of the taxes in this town and we give them a
little bit to help them maintain their roads and that seemed important.
Since your first years on the Board of Finance, to what extent has the total budget in
town changed? A figure like that just makes an interesting comparison.
The proportion of the schools and the town I don’t think has changed that much. Its just
he dollars have . . . .I was looking at something the other day; we did a bond issue to
finance, in 1989, the new high school, $3,550,000. You look at that versus what we’re
looking at today and that’s the kind of change you see. Salaries are certainly a lot higher,
student population hasn’t changed very much, but the numbers are significantly higher.
A lot of things have happened in the school system that costs. Just the cost of special
education is just a huge number. You have to do it.
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I can remember; having lived in Old Lyme since 1954, I can remember when the
total Old Lyme budget education included passed a million dollar figure for the first
time, that was probably a good 50 years ago, but I remember everybody thinking
that’s outrageous. A million dollars for a town the size of Old Lyme.
Its funny though, you’re so involved for so many years and then you kind of get out of
the loop and I always wondered if I’d go back on the board after I retired, but I said its in
good hands right now, so I’m doing different things.
One more area, I haven’t been involved with McCurdy Salisbury for all that long, I’ve
been on the foundation for a number of years, but there seems to be a twenty year
tradition here that I know Joe Dunn had been the secretary treasurer for a number of
years, Willis Umberger did it for 20 years, and then Ward Bing did it for 20 years and I
have succeeded Ward Bing. It’s a paid position and the pay when I took over had been
set 23 years before, so you can imagine it’s not much, but you don’t do it for the money.
But its great because we have Mrs. McCurdy Salisbury left, what is it $45,000, in 1890
something and its grown to a $6,000,000 endowment. We’ve got this year 100 students
getting scholarships from the foundation from Lyme and Old Lyme both and just a great
opportunity. I’m the one who keeps track of the kids and their grades and makes sure the
checks sent out to the right places in the right amount and people thank me. I say don’t
thank me I just spending somebody else’s money here. But it’s a great opportunity for
the town. The maximum scholarship now is $4,000 and that’s not a lot compared to a
$50,000 tuition bill, but it helps. And some families have 2 and 3 kids that go through so
you take $4,000 times 2 or 3 times 4 and it’s a meaningful number.
You probably know, I was a recipient of the McCurdy Salisbury 50 years ago. And
I think at that time the maximum amount they awarded was $600 per year. At that
time, say for instance, at UCONN that was half a year’s expenses. Certainly $4,000
isn’t going to get you half a years expenses at any schools today.
I went to college 1956, 55 I started, class of 59, Brown University, $2,000 a year covered
everything. We’re going down tomorrow to visit our grandson who’s at Sarah Lawrence,
which is the most expensive college in the country at $54,000 a year. It is mindboggling.
But still going to a place like that and have an organization that’s as strong as
McCurdy Salisbury is who’s willing to give you that kind of money, its going to
more than pay for your books, that’s for sure.
Used to be, when I first started, we gave out $2,000 a year and we decided to change the
formula to take advantage of some of the applications that some of the kids are filing for
financial aid. So we’re tracking that on strictly a need basis, so we’re not giving out a flat
amount to everybody, we’re tailoring it. So they range from $500 a year to $4,000. We
normally pay 25% of what the need is after we use the financial director of Trinity
College, she gets all the financial information and she gives me 3 numbers. She gives me
what the family can afford; what the cost of the school is; what the financial aid package
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the student’s getting is. So we look up the unmet need and we usually do about 25% of
that up to the $4,000.
About how many students are you assisting right now?
100 this year. Its been a little higher, we’re surprised we don’t see more applications, but
I think what’s happening is a lot of the colleges are giving out much better packages so
that people don’t see a need to apply. But again, its strictly need based.
And the organization has been around for about 115 years?
At least 115 years. Its interesting there’s a new foundation in town, education foundation
that started doing I think what McCurdy Salisbury started to do, was to support education
programs helping to pay for teachers and supporting programs the school couldn’t afford
to do, but we moved into the scholarship for kids in college, and this new foundation is
kind of stepping in now and working within the school system which is great. But in the
old days they were trying to finance a new high school, I believe, through this foundation
and there’s a lot of history with a lot of stress going on in those times with which way
they were going to go.
And you said that you might have a little bit to say about the Old Lyme Town
Band? I will pass on any comments about my wife’s role in this for now and just see
what your thoughts are.
Well, in 1975 and Michelle Dickey is the one who was the impedes behind getting this
going. There was a town bank in town and they had their own band building on Ferry
Road across 156 and it died out so in 75, for the bicentennial coming up in 76, let’s start a
town bank. So Don Janz agreed. Don Janz was the choral director for the Coast Guard
Cadet program and he agreed to be our band director. I was looking at some old
correspondence I still have that I should turn over to the Historical Society a letter from
Don saying that he couldn’t continue because he was conducting a church choir and
that’s moving to Monday Night practice. So we had Jim Mellinger step in. At that point
the band had no structure. There were no officers. So Jim came to me one day and said
Ned I have to resign because my hearing is just deteriorating and I thought why did he
come to me so I became the President for about 10 years. We had to put some structure
together, and by-laws and all those things, but we had great support all those years, Linda
Lee Andrews, your good wife, Anne Lander, Jim Nichols as Treasurer for how many
years. The band got to be pretty good. After Jim Mellinger I know we had Bob Rule as a
number of years as a director, able to put on some really nice summer concerts and a
Christmas program and it was fun. I got lured away when I retired to join a big band
which plays on Monday nights down at Bill’s Seafood, that’s our practice night and so I
moved over there. I still once or twice in the summer get a phone call. Could you come
and fill in for a concert here. Happy to do it, happy to do it. That’s been a nice
organization for the town and what’s fun is a number of young kids come in from the
high school too and sit in a play. Its great experience for them. But its people largely
who that put their horns aside for a number of years, like I did, and a chance to get out
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and have some fun playing again. Every week we rehearse – it’s a commitment; it takes
a lot of time. Still on Monday nights.
I think that the Historical Society has targeted both Michelle and Anne at some
point to talk in some detail about the history of the band, but regardless its still good
to have your insight as well.
It was fun.
What are the books that you brought with you?
I brought one; this is the history of the McCurdy Salisbury Foundation that was written in
93 so it goes that far. I hope this exists – I have a whole drawer full at home so I should
talk to Alison and if she’d like any copies.
If not in the Historical Society directly, possibly in the Old Lyme room or the
genealogy room at the Library.
And this is a book that Holly Ely wrote about the history of the Parsonage. I don’t know
if other copies are available, I’m sure they are somewhere but this is one that they should
have too, I think. This is the chapter I had to brush up on renovations in 1976 to 78. But
it’s a great old building and there’s’ the addition that we did and that was the source of
much controversy.
Bob Carter was the architect on that and Bob had a treasure of old pieces of fire place
mantels and moldings so as we needed a door he’d supply one for us but we exchanged
as you walk in the back of the original building of the Lyme Academy of Fine Arts, in
that back door there’s a wonderful fire place mantel there. That came out of the
parsonage, that’s one of the trades we made. We couldn’t use it anymore and we traded
that for other things he brought to us. Some decisions didn’t go down to well, but that’s
ok.
When you move into town in 1972 we were the young people in our neighborhood and
we used to get invited to parties as the token young couple. And there weren’t any kids
in the neighborhood at that time, now we have lots of kids in the neighborhood. But our
kids came and boy, the opportunity to live in the village, the kids could walk to school.
Our daughter who lives in Lyme now, her kids both go the high school/middle school, at
least 3 days a week they walk home to our house. Stop at the ice cream store or the
Chocolate Shell or something, and she said, boy she spends so much time in the car
running. We were so smart to live in the Village. We could open the door and the kids
could walk where they had to go. We’ve seen an awful lot of change in the physical
character of the buildings. Things have been upgraded quite a bit in the last 35 years.
But the town has kept its character; it’s not an Essex. Barbara one year did a survey for I
guess it was for the registrar of voters, and she said, Ned, there are an awful lot of parts of
this town where people don’t have a lot. We’re called a very wealthy town but peel the
cover back a little bit, we’ve got a great cross section. The reason that we came here was
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living in Chicago, we were thinking about a move, and I wanted to go here and my wife
would say, no I don’t want the kids raised in a place where they’re all alike. The Gold
Coast of Chicago, so we came here and found Old Lyme and it’s a great cross section for
the kids to grow up in which has been great.
Well, we’re just about at the end of our interview time. Time does really go by
quickly when you get involved.
I did have the honor of being named Citizen of the Year two years ago, which I was very
surprised at and pleased. I’ve got a list up on my . . . what keeps Ned busy you know.
Organizations that you’re involved in and things you do. The library’s been a favorite
thing for us. I’ve been on the board there and Treasurer but now on the finance
committee still. Keeps you busy but that’s the joy of a small town.
I recently had a former student of mine ask me knowing that I had lived most of my
life in Old Lyme if I found that Old Lyme had changed a lot since I was in school
here. She was from Colchester and she felt that Colchester had changed completely
and she’s only in her 30’s. But in the time that she remembers it isn’t the same town
anymore. And I said well Old Lyme is bigger and there’s a lot more in it, but
there’s still something essential about the character that I think is still there. It is
kind of nice to be able to walk down Lyme Street and not be overwhelmed by
commerce or anything else. Which is not vastly different from what it would have
been 50 years ago.
We’ve got a nice group of stores in there now and hope we can keep the ones we have.
Thank you very much.
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