Joint Meeting of Cross Departmental Team on Homelessness
and National Homelessness Consultative Committee
Minutes of Meeting
23 May 2012, Custom House
Attendance
Jan O’Sullivan T.D.
Michael Layde (Chair)
Ger Gilroy (secretariat)
Claire Gavin
Eddie Lewis
Dr Eoin O’Sullivan
Karen Murphy
Mike Allen
Peter Lewis
Kerry Anthony
Niamh Randall
Bob Jordan
Vincent Keenan
Martin O’ Connor
Tony Flynn
Gerry McNally
Caroline Sellars
Seamus Sisk
Cathal Morgan
John O’Riordan
Aileen O’Connor
Maurice Hoare
Concepta de Bruin
Dairearca Ni Neill
Alan Kelly
Michael Cunningham
Billy Hicks
Andrew Conlan
Noreen Leahy
Minister for Housing and Planning
Dept. of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Dept. of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Dept. of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Dept. of the Environment, Community and Local Government
Trinity College Dublin
Irish Council for Social Housing
Focus Ireland
Focus Ireland
De Paul Ireland
Simon
Threshold
NABCO
COPE
COSC
The Probation Service
Irish Prison Service
Irish Prison Service
Dublin City Council
Cork City Council
Cork City Council
Health Service Executive
Health Service Executive
Drugs Policy Unit (Department of Health)
Drugs Policy Unit (Department of Health)
Department of Social Protection
Department of Social Protection
Department of Public Expenditure and Reform
Department of Children and Youth Affairs
Apologies
Joyce Loughnan
Daithi Downey
Ann Gilton
Jackie Harrington
Geraldine Luddy
Alan Bell
Tim McCarthy
Seamus Hempenstall
Make Room
Dublin City Council
Department of Social Protection
Department of Social Protection
Department of Health
Department of Health
Department of Health
Department of Education
Introduction
The Chair, Michael Layde opened the meeting and invited each person around the table to
introduce themselves. He then asked the Minister for Housing and Planning to say a few words.
Following is summary of remarks from the Minister
The Minister said she was delighted to attend this first meeting to be held in over a year and while
she had met with many members of both the CDT and the NHCC separately it was a great
pleasure to attend this joint session of CDT and NHCC. She referred to the Review of the Strategy
and she said that the Programme for Government had committed to reviewing and updating the
existing Homeless Strategy and to adopting a ‘housing first/housing-led’ approach to
homelessness. She indicated that a particular emphasis will be on the delivery of independent
accommodation for homeless persons. She referred also to the Housing Policy Statement of June
2011 which provides for the delivery of new social housing through more flexible funding models.
Eoin O’Sullivan gave a detailed presentation on the Review of the Homeless Strategy 2008 –
2011, ‘Ending Homelessness – A Housing-Led Approach’. He said the development of a housingled approach to ending homelessness was implicit rather than explicit in the Homeless Strategy
and the primary purpose is to make explicit this policy principle. He referred to the Housing Policy
Statement, of June 2011, and said that private rented accommodation needed to be considered as
a real option for accommodation for families. He went on to say that the scale of homelessness
varies and the local response would differentiate because of the variance. He noted that supporting
people in housing is more cost effective than supporting them in emergency/transitional homeless
services and that the majority of people can sustain tenancies with support.
Michael Layde opened discussion by asking for initial comments on the presentation. He said that
the views would be taken on board and this would inform the final draft of the Report. The draft will
be circulated to all members shortly for comment
Bob Jordan, Threshold welcomed the proposal for the review of Part 4 of the Residential
Tenancies Act 2004. He said that the Residential Tenancy Board had made a huge improvement
in relation to security of tenure. He referred to the Housing Assistance Payment and he said that
the Rent Supplement should be paid directly to the landlords in advance as the current system
limits the sourcing of accommodation. He recommended that a Housing First Task Group should
be set up to remove the barriers to private rented accommodation and to make decisions and to
set targets and ensure that the required targets are met. Another area he felt warranted comment
was in relation to rent caps and the quality of accommodation.
Cathal Morgan, DCC welcomed the presentation and supported the views put forward by Bob
Jordan. He said there should be different construction models with flexibility for local issues. The
presentation referred to the continuation of the ‘Counted In’ Survey to complement the information
gathered from PASS. He did not consider this necessary and suggested agreement should be
reached on this before any debate takes place at the Data Sub Group.
Karen Murphy, ICSH indicated that progress was still needed on the existing strategy. She said
that there are more barriers in relation to housing supply and they are looking at relets and
allocations in existing stock. They are also considering Leasing, SLI and CALF options. She said
there is a need for more targets to be set.
Michael Layde said that obstacles will be identified and that every effort would be made to have
the barriers identified dealt with it. This will be an overall Government response, it is not only from
the Department of Environment, Community and Local Government.
Mike Allen, Focus said he agreed with what Bob Jordan had said. Housing-led is the future and
private rented is a crucial element and it can’t wait until the HAP is operational. He noted that DSP
challenges need to be looked at and progress made on this. He also said that as the whole focus is
on housing-led that prevention gets left out and there needs to be a refocus on this. He indicated
that in Dublin there are varying patterns of presentations. He said crucial to all of this is the
Regional Fora, they are the essential contact in all of this. A problem he sees in this is that they are
not meeting as frequently as they should. He questioned the fact the timeframes were not reached
by end of 2010 for ending long-term homelessness and if the 2013 timeframe for the overall
strategy would change.
Michael Layde responded that it was a whole of Government response and that is why the
meeting was arranged today before the final draft was prepared. It will provide a more creative
approach to respond.
Seamus Sisk, Irish Prison Service commented that because of the rent caps some people are
paying part of their social welfare to top up the amount required for the rent. He said they have a
lot of people coming into the prison system and they welcome the Housing First approach for longterm accommodation. He said that there should also be an emphasis on communal
accommodation.
Niamh Randall, Simon agreed that it is not a huge paradigm shift, housing-led approaches are
already working effectively in various part of the country but it is useful that people begin to use the
same language. She argued the experience at regional Fora was checkered and it was really
important that this process was nationally driven and locally delivered. She noted that the SLI
model was developed to work with those with low to medium support needs and queried how the
support needs of those with higher levels of need might be met including physical health issues,
mental health issues, drug and alcohol issues and complex needs.
Kerry Anthony, DePaul referred to measuring progress and operational issues regarding PASS
Tony Flynn, Cosc said that this communal accommodation approach may not be a solution for
most of those homeless as a result of domestic violence which were predominantly family groups,
women and children. In the case of domestic violence the majority require short term solutions
where security and safety requirements are the priority. Some cases repeat a number of times
before resolution. A big problem in this category is that some may not be recognised as homeless
as they may be part owners or have part tenancy rights of a property but for safety reasons cannot
return to their home. He referred to the DoECLG led working group addressing Action 10 of the
National Strategy on Domestic, Sexual and Gender Based Violence which was set up to develop
guidance for housing authorities to assist effectiveness and consistency in the development of
housing response for victims of domestic violence and sought recognition of the specific problems
of this group in accessing housing in the proposed document.
Maurice Hoare, HSE Chair of the HSE National Homeless Group called for the setting up of an
Operational Group under the CDT/NHCC. He remarked that homeless people have such a range
of needs to be addressed that there is a need for diversity.
Gerry McNally, Probation Service remarked that there was a need to keep in mind the particular
complex needs of homeless persons leaving prison/custody and those on Probation Service
supervision in the community and the necessity for joined up services to address/match/manage
their needs. He looked forward to implementation of the housing-led approach.
Michael Layde advised that DoECLG will circulate report quite soon and indicate timeline for
responses. Comment will be invited formally at this stage. He thanked Eoin for all his work on the
draft. He then asked Claire Gavin to give a short outline on the devolved budgets.
Claire Gavin outlined details of the new Devolved Funding Process which commenced on 1
January 2012 between this DoECLG and Dublin City Council. She said that draft protocols are with
3 of the lead authorities for consideration and rollout to the remainder of the leads will be done later
this year.
Michael Layde added that with the new framework being developed this will make a very proactive
response. He noted that the Housing Assistance Payment remains a high priority area. He said
that DoECLG will be updating Government in a few weeks’ time and the CDT/NHCC will be
updated at the next meeting.
He went on to say that the issue of housing supply is being looked at but there is an issue for
social housing purposes in that while superficially there is so much property there is not the
appropriate property available. DoECLG are dealing with NAMA currently on overall housing
issues. PASS is a very significant development for the Data Sub Group and this will be discussed
with them at their next meeting. He said that his colleagues will arrange for a date to be scheduled
as soon as possible. It is crucial that we can measure what we are doing
Mike Allen, Focus acknowledged that the measurement process should be put in place and he
noted there was no indication to buy in on PASS at national level. He also strongly advocated the
continuation of the ‘Counted In’ process.
Michael Layde said this was raised at the C&V Pillar meeting and it will provide a forum to deal
with this.
Proposed Date for next meeting – Tuesday 25th September at 10.30 a.m. in the Custom
House