Minutes of Historic Preservation Commission Meeting
Wednesday, February 13, 2008
100 S. Hill Street
Board of Commissioners Conference Room
Those present from the Historic Preservation Commission were Paul Cropsey, Shannon
Herren and Martha McDaniel. Staff present at the HPC meeting were Shannan Buckner,
Frederick Gardiner, Jennifer Freeman and Commissioner Hollberg.
Paul Cropsey calls the meeting to order.
On motion by Martha McDaniel and seconded by Shannon Herren, and approved by all
present, motion to approve the minutes from the meeting held on Wednesday, January 9,
2008. Passed
Paul Cropsey presents the financial report and states that the balance is $1302.46 in the
account.
On motion by Shannon Herren and seconded by Martha McDaniel, and approved by all
present, motion to approve the financial report. Passed
Paul Cropsey asks if there are any citizens comments.
No comments.
On motion by Shannon Herren and seconded by Martha McDaniel, and approved by all
present, motion to hear agenda item number five (5) before agenda item number four (4).
Passed
Items for Review:
The first item to review is an application for a Certificate of Appropriateness, Project No.
08-CA-02, 102 North Hill Street, Griffin, Fence enclosure for grease trap, Sign permit: 2
window signs, 1 building sign, 1 artwork. Applicant / Owner: Evangelos Panousis.
Mr. Panousis explains that the location of the grease trap will be in the alley behind the
restaurant. He states that he wishes to install a fence around the grease trap and will make
it aesthetically appealing. He proposes to paint the fence a neutral color. He explains that
the grease trap is portable and is in need of a fence to keep vandals/ children from
tampering with it.
Mrs. McDaniel asks if he has a sample or a picture of the fencing that he is proposing to
install.
Mr. Panousis shows a picture to the commission.
There is discussion about the grease trap location and how the grease is removed from the
grease trap and whether the City has any issues with the location of the grease trap.
Mr. Panousis says that a professional company will clean the grease trap.
Mr. Doug White, F.O.G. Inspector for the City of Griffin states that he has met with Mr.
Panousis and the location that he is proposing is a suitable location for the grease trap.
Mr. Panousis states that the enclosure will be 5 X 4.
There is some discussion about the height and color of the fence.
Ms. Buckner states that the guidelines say that the fence needs to be either the color of
the building or a neutral color.
Mr. Panousis replies that he was thinking that the height would be four (4) foot or higher
if necessary.
Mr. Cropsey expresses concern with the fence being four (4) feet in height.
Mr. Panousis says that he could take it to six (6) feet in height.
Mr. Cropsey states that he would like to discuss the signs.
Mr. Panousis says that he has hired Shannon Lake to prepare his signs for the building.
Ms. Herren asks if each of the signs can be reviewed separately. She also states that she
doesn’t have any issues with the window signs.
Mr. Cropsey asks how large the word “Angelo” will be.
Mr. Panousis says that it will be either 8 or 10 inches.
Mr. Cropsey says that they would prefer 8 inches.
There is discussion about the art work proposed to be on the column. It is determined that
the art work should not be mounted on the column because the current guidelines state
that signs should not obscure historic architectural features. It is suggested that the art
work be located on the glass, above the doorway, rather than on the column.
There is discussion regarding the proposed sign on the Hill Street side of the building. It
is noted that there is a not good deal of area for signage on the Hill Street side of the
building, but if the 4 X 7 sign is moved to the Solomon Street side then the sign that is
proposed for the Hill Street side of the building might have to be a little bit smaller than
originally proposed in order to stay within the limits of the flat brickwork above the
storefront to meet the size limit requirement of the sign ordinance. City staff will verify
to make sure that it stays within the 25% coverage.
Ms. McDaniel recaps what they have agreed to:
1. Install a six (6) foot tall fence to go around the grease trap that will be compatible
with the building color. This will be a 5 X 6 enclosure.
2. The front window sign graphics are approved with the lettering limited to 8” in
height. The graphics for the signs to be mounted on the building are approved.
The size of the sign shall be limited to fitting within the flat brickwork upon
which they are mounted and the artwork shall be placed on the glass above the
door and not on the column.
Ms. McDaniel proposes that the City move the bench to be centered on the storefront on
Hill Street.
On motion by Martha McDaniel and seconded by Shannon Herren, and approved by all
present motion to recommend approval of the Certificate of Appropriateness 08-CA-02,
102 North Hill Street with Historic Preservation Commissions conditions. Passed
Mr. Cropsey states that according to the HPC Rules of Procedure the applications were
submitted late and don’t have all the documents that are supposed to be submitted with
them so he requests a motion to waive the requirements of the Rules of Procedure for
both applications.
Martha McDaniel makes a motion to waive the Rules of Procedure for both applications
for Certificates of Appropriteness listed on the agenda. It is seconded by Shannon
Herren and approved by all present.
The second item for review is a Certificate of Appropriateness Application, for Project
No. 08-CA-01, 103 S. Hill Street, Griffin. Sign Permit. Applicant: Eric Bailey, Owner:
Jim Ogletree.
Eric Bailey is present to answer any questions. He states that he wishes to re-install the
former sign that he had removed from the building when he installed the Good Love
Clothing sign. He wishes to put up the Blue Collar Outfitters Sign.
On motion by Martha McDaniel and seconded by Shannon Herren, and approved by all
present, motion to approve Certificate of Appropriateness ( sign permit) 08-CA-01, 103
South Hill Street. Passed
Old Business:
Update on the Community Choices Design Guidelines
Mr. Cropsey states that we were surprised when Kellie returned from maternity leave, she
realized that so much work had been done on the guidelines for the historic district and
then declared that was never their intention. She said that she didn’t want to complete the
work on the Historic District because she didn’t feel like they were qualified to do so.
She initially offered the HPC the opportunity to either delete the historic section or keep
it in the incomplete form and put notes in that section of the guidelines referring to
already approved generic design guidelines. HPC requested that they remove the
incomplete section on the Historic District and just insert a page noting the generic design
guidelines applying to the Historic District. After HPC submitted its request to the ARC
they changed their minds and no longer want to offer that option. The ARC wants to
propose the whole document, as-is, even though they acknowledge that the Historic
District section is incomplete. Paul notes that he feels like he has asked the ARC all the
logical questions like how they feel qualified to write forty (40) pages of the Historic
section but don’t feel qualified to write the last ten (10) pages. The ARC offered no real
answer for that. The design guidelines legally are supposed to be selected by the Historic
Preservation Commission. He states that what he would like to see happen is for the
Board of Commissioners to receive the LCI Design Guidelines knowing that there is an
incomplete section on the Historic District and then forward it to the Historic
Preservation Commission for action. He notes that the overall feel from the HPC about
the section that has been done so far is great it’s just a matter of completing it. Instead of
having two 50 page manuals, one generic version and one detail specific version the
thought is to try to get someone to finish the detailed version that the ARC started
working on. Drew Whalen has received the document and Frederick Gardiner has told
them that it will go before the Board of Commissioners in early March.
There is discussion at this point about approving the document and adding supplements
to it at a later date. The goal is to make it as simple and user friendly as possible. Mr.
Cropsey notes that there are two sections, one for the non-historic district and one for the
historic district. He encourages the Board of Commissioners to approve the section for
the non-historic district and defer the other section to the HPC and allow it to be
postponed until it is completed. Then when an applicant comes in they wouldn’t have to
look several different places to find the information that they need. Ms. McDaniel states
that she would recommend the Board of Commissioners adopt the study done by ARC,
see how it works with two documents and then we’ll come back and amend it. Frederick
Gardiner says that it is his ultimate goal to establish one unified code so that when a
developer walks into the office there are not three or four documents that have to be
looked at. He says that right now there is a separate Zoning Ordinance, Development
Ordinance, Sign Ordinance, and if he is a Downtown Developer the Design Guidelines.
This makes it difficult for developer to do any type of research on their own. There is a
need for the document to be accepted and then the portion that needs to be amended can
be worked on later.
Sign Ordinance: HPC suggested revisions:
Paul Cropsey states that he would like to see the current Sign Ordinance for the
Downtown Historic area replaced by the sign recommendations and requirements in the
proposed LCI Design Guidelines.
Doug Hollberg states that the problem that the City is having right now is regarding real
estate signs and whether they have to pull permits to put up their signs. He uses the Opera
House as an example. He says with a condo situation each condo is like a separate
building, so the question is does each separate entity deserve a 4X4 sign or does one sign
need to be put on the entire building? He says that he doesn’t think it is the intention of
the ordinance to make real estate businesses permit signs to market their property.
Mrs. McDaniel states that she feels like that’s the price of doing business.
Mr. Gardiner notes that he has met with the Board of Realtors and his interpretation is
that there are certain size signs that shouldn’t require a permit but, if realtors choose to go
beyond that size then they should have to permit the sign.
Martha McDaniel states that she has no changes.
There is discussion about the size/square footage of freestanding signs and the fact that in
the Historic District there are not many places for freestanding signs. The point is made
that the only time there would be a possibility of freestanding signs would be in the case
of redevelopment. Even then the chance of a freestanding sign would be minimal.
There is discussion and clarification about what a canopy sign is.
New Business:
Discussion regarding staff preparation of agendas:
On motion by Shannon Herren and seconded by Martha McDaniel and approved by all
present, motion for Planning & Zoning staff to prepare HPC agenda. Passed. Items
should be submitted to staff no later than seven (7) days prior to the meeting.
Elect 2008 Historic Preservation Commission Officers
On motion by Shannon Herren and seconded by Martha McDaniel and approved by all
present, motion to table item number 9 on the agenda to the next HPC meeting. Passed
Discussion of By-Law revisions, including list of current HPC members
The discussion notes that changes include updating the names of board members and a
few minor word changes.
Shannon Herren will e-mail the document to Shannan Buckner for these changes to be
made to the document.
On motion by Shannon Herren and seconded by Martha McDaniel, and approved by all
present, motion to accept the proposed changes to the by-laws. Passed
Other, as presented
Shannan Buckner asks about the motion made earlier in the meeting stating that the
applications were not on time and that everything was not included. Staff needs to know
what is expected. Mr. Cropsey notes that the timing requirement is noted in the HPC’s
Rules of Procedure and the submittal requirements are noted on the approved applications
for Certificate of Appropriateness.
There is discussion about the deadlines for applications to be turned in. It is determined
that applications need to be turned in to Planning & Development in accordance with the
requirements of the HPC’s Rules of Procedure.
Paul states that there is a report due to the U.S. Department of the Interior. The staff
received the report in November 2007 but did not give it to the HPC until January 2008,
approximately two weeks after it was due. So if anyone asks it was not ignored, it was
received late.
The other document that the staff gave to the HPC in mid January 2008 was an
application for a grant but it was due before this meeting so again it was too late to act
upon.
On motion by Martha McDaniel and seconded by Shannon Herren and approved by all
present, motion to adjourn. Passed
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED:
_____________________________
Shannan Buckner, Associate Planner
ATTEST:
_____________________________
Paul Cropsey, Chairman