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FRIDAY, 14 MARCH 2008
____
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
____
The Council met at the Govan Mbeki Stadium, Tlokwe Municipality in
Ikageng at 10:15.
The Acting Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to
observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.
WELCOMING OF DEPUTY PRESIDENT
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Order! I
would like to welcome the Deputy President of the Republic of South
Africa to the sitting of the National Council of Provinces in Tlokwe
Local Municipality here in Ikageng. I am pleased that the Deputy
President has graced this occasion to address us. I therefore call
upon the Deputy President to address us.
PARLIAMENT EMPOWERING COMMUNITIES FOR POVERTY ERADICATION
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Acting Chairperson of the NCOP, hon Hollander,
hon Premiers, hon MECs present here, hon mayors, councillors,
distinguished guests, and members of communities, I greet you all.
Dumelang bagaetsho! [Ladies and gentlemen!]
We meet today under the theme ``Parliament Empowering Communities
for Poverty Eradication’’. This is a gathering of government,
Parliament, communities, organised civil society, representatives of
business formations, farmers, farmworkers, youth, people with
physical disabilities and the many important people who make up this
beautiful nation of ours.
Correctly, we are here to confront the many issues not only because
they occur in this community but because they occur in many
communities in South Africa. This is despite the fact that many of
our leaders and other people in communities are doing a lot of work
to improve the conditions on the ground. However, despite all of
that work, we know that there is a lot that we still need to do. I
am aware, for instance, that, in this province, a lot of ground has
been covered in relation to delivery of services. However, I also
know that there are many needs in the communities that we still need
to pay attention to, and that is why we are here – to make that
commitment.
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I want to congratulate the National Council of Provinces once again
for organising this five-day programme and ensuring that the
interests of the people in this province and those of South Africa
in general are heard. This forum is about promoting public
participation in decision-making processes. Some of the things that
you will raise today will end up as regulations, laws and programmes
because, when we go back, we will reflect and look at how we could
ensure that the next time we come here, we will be coming to bring
you good news. We are also here because indeed we want to build an
effective people’s Parliament that is responsive to the needs of the
people and that is able, together with you, to work towards
realising a better quality of life for all our people. The National
Council of Provinces has been a champion in the programme of Taking
Parliament to the People. At the same time, we have constituency
offices in different parts of the country charged with the same
task. And of course, as political parties, we also ensure that in
our own work we accomplish the same goals.
This province is mainly rural and, in its own way, has the
difficulties of being a poor province but not the poorest of our
provinces. It has lots of other things that are positive what with
it having platinum. But, of course, the challenge is to ensure that
the wealth it generates, and the infrastructure that it has laid out
so dedicatedly in order to grow the economy has a way of creating
shared growth. Where we have poverty, such as we have in different
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parts of our country, inequality becomes one of our biggest
challenges. As Nelson Mandela said:
Overcoming poverty is not a gesture of charity. It is an act of
justice. It is the protection of a fundamental human right, the
right to dignity and a decent life.
For us, as elected representatives, this is actually our reason to
exist, our reason to be – in the form of the tasks that we have
responsibility for when we get elected. So, while poverty persists,
we cannot talk about the full freedoms for all our people.
It is encouraging that we have seen unemployment levels in our
country coming down. However, the number of people that are entering
the labour market seeking employment has become even higher. The
worrying thing for us in this regard is the fact that many of the
people who are entering the labour market are younger, ill-equipped,
unskilled and semi-skilled.
It is therefore our contention that those young people who are
dropping out of school without adequate preparation for the world of
work must go back to school. [Applause.] There is no short-cut about
that! It is our view, difficult as it is for many of our MECs in
education, that we have to find a way within our further and
education training, FET, system to accommodate some of these people
in our Adult Basic Education and Training, Abet, programmes and some
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of the activities that can happen on the same premises in a
makeshift structure so that these institutions are able to operate
the full 24 hours of the day.
In our day and age, there is not a concept of ingudu. If you are
older and you are beyond school-going age, it does not mean you
cannot be skilled. If you stay out of school you are going to be
walking around for the next 15 years without finding a proper job.
If you go back to school for two to three years, you will get a
solid qualification, and you will be made for the rest of your life.
[Applause.]
In a survey on social transformation and delivery in 2007, we found
the following indications about the North West: About 90% of
households have piped water and therefore, we must finish the
remaining 10%; 82,3% use electricity as a source of domestic power
and 90,1% have access to sanitation. These are above the RDP
standards. It is also above the Millennium Development Goals and
even exceeds the Accelerated and Shared Growth Initiative for South
Africa, Asgisa, goals. I therefore would like to challenge the North
West and say we should for universal access. We are so close, and
I’m sure you can do it. [Applause.]
I want to focus again on the issue of poverty because this is the
theme that has brought us together here today. Poverty is a
multidimensional phenomenon. Therefore, in dealing with it, we need
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to address it in different ways. Poverty entails the lack of steady
income, the lack of access to decent social infrastructure, food
insecurity and, in many cases, lack of skills or poor education. It
implies ill-health, exploitation, brings about a sense of
powerlessness and destroys social cohesion. Therefore, when poverty
exists, freedom is compromised.
During the state of the nation address, the President spoke of an
antipoverty war room. I want to invite all of you as soldiers and
generals in this war against poverty into this antipoverty war room.
What do we want to see in this antipoverty war room? We want to
address the skills issue, and we want to pay particular attention
from early childhood development to Grade 12.
We would like to see a situation where all of our children go
through those formative years that lead them to Grade 12 without
leaving the school system. We therefore are sourcing, quite
significantly, the availability of teachers in the communities or
caregivers in the community who will look at children and early
learning development. Also, we are urging parents to pay attention
to the issue of children who are dropping out. Many children drop
out around Grade 9. Now, when they have gone up to Grade 9, it is a
great investment that we as a society have made, but it is not
enough for them to go out and face the world. So we spend a lot of
money to have a half-baked potato that cannot go out and grow in
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society. If we are unable to take them through to Grade 12, that
investment becomes expenditure that is wasteful.
So the issue of investing in the first years of learning up to Grade
12 is an important part of the war room. If you are a soldier with
us inside the war room, some of you must dedicate yourselves to just
paying attention to that. Of course, we do want people who want to
go beyond Grade 12 and so we also continue to ensure that you
acquire additional skills after Grade 12.
In the war room, we also want to address issues of economic selfreliance. You are aware that the most successful intervention by
this government in addressing poverty has been the income transfer
that is transferred through the grants and go to vulnerable people
in our society - old people, children and disabled people. By their
very nature, this core of our community who are vulnerable people,
are not the people that you are deploying to grow the economy. You
are supporting them because they cannot support themselves.
The challenge that we have in addressing poverty is income transfer
to the people who can continue to be productive because these are
the people that are missing in the economy. When we talk about our
economy not accelerating and being shared enough, it is because
there is a core of people who are healthy and able-bodied who,
however, have no income and are not participating productively.
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It is for that reason that we argue in the war room that the private
sector has to be there because these are the young people that we
need to skill in our National Youth Service, in our public works, in
our further education and training colleges and other programmes, so
that they can exit those programmes to economic and productive
activity.
Government does not have the capacity to absorb all these people
alone. We all have to bite the bullet in South Africa in solidarity
with the poor and give the young people a starting chance. If we
don’t take them on board so that they are able to get a foot in the
door in the place of work, some of them will reach the age of 40
without ever having worked, and that is a tragedy for society,
because then they become chronically poor.
Again, in the war room, we also talk about the importance of social
cohesion because, if we do not have norms and values that unite us,
we will not be in a position to be one nation. In that regard,
issues such as gender oppression, racism and all kinds of violence
that we experience in our community become an important part of
fighting poverty.
I do not believe that poor people are violent. I do not think that
it is also fair to say that most of the crimes that we see are
committed by poor people. There are other reasons why people commit
these acts of violence. These include the breakdown of families. In
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the antipoverty war room, we talk about the reconstruction of
families.
We also talk about the economic reconstruction of a family. We are
urging municipalities and we are urging provinces to have the
database, which many of them have, because of the indigent policies
that we have through which we are able to say in each family: What
is the future of this family? What is the turnaround strategy that
can obtain in this family in order to make sure that someone or some
people in this family will ensure that the next generation in this
family will not be poor? We all know - and I don’t think that we say
that enough - that the biggest warrior against poverty in any
situation is a family but, as government, as society, we need to
have a contract with the families so that the families take
responsibility for their own development. It is not right for
families to be passive in the fight against poverty and for other
service providers, government and otherwise, to be the ones that are
spoon-feeding the families.
The partnership and the contract with the poor must be a two-way
relationship where we invest in the fight against poverty but, also,
the families take responsibility to fight in their own right so that
they can sustain the victories and the gains against poverty. What
we seek therefore in this new approach to fighting poverty is not
just to provide food security. It is not just to reduce the level of
poverty in a household. What we seek to achieve is to reduce the
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number of people who are poor and, therefore, there has got to be a
way in which, through our intervention in every household, we leave
a family that is not poor.
As long as we continue to have people that are relatively poor, we
have not even begun to fight the fight. Those people must break the
cycle of poverty forever. When I look at many of us here, hon
members, and some members of our society - the black middle class
and so on - it is not true that people are poor because they have
won a tender. People improve their quality and status of their
family in the main because of education. It is because someone in
your family has been educated enough and has taken it upon
themselves to make sure that poverty will not reign in their family.
And, therefore, you take the little resources that you have and you
invest in the education of your siblings and cousins and so on. That
is the biggest and most reliable strategy to turnaround poverty.
[Applause.]
We also know that, if in a family there isn’t this one person who
has got the capacity to do that, then we must close ranks with the
family. However, then the members of the family must take the
responsibility for looking after other members of the family and, in
that way, we build a nation, have social cohesion and it is
irreversible. It is going to be those people who invest in the
education of their siblings who will be able to tell us when the
sibling is going off the rails and tell them that they are now
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becoming wasteful. Why are you a thug when I have invested in
educating you?
So, we need to involve the families in the fight against poverty. I
hope the community that is here agrees with us on that approach. Are
we agreed? [Applause.]
Now, the government of the North West province has taken the issue
of moral regeneration very seriously. Moral regeneration is also an
important component of fighting poverty. We need it because it is
through such programmes that we are able to invest in value
development.
So as we move forward, rebuilding our country and community,
everybody has a role to play. There is something that is called,
“the power of one”. When it comes to some of the challenges that we
have pointed out in our antipoverty campaign, such as health and
communicable diseases such as HIV and Aids, we argue that you must
take responsibility as an individual not to be infected. You must
also take responsibility as an individual not to infect yourself and
other people if you are already infected.
You must take the responsibility of taking your treatment and also
using the facilities that are available from government. As a
society, we must provide the support system. When it comes to the
ultimate defeat of this horrible disease, it depends on you and me.
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If I am infected I shouldn’t infect another person and not re-infect
myself. I should live a responsible life so that I live longer.
If you are not infected, stay like that, as you know what to do.
[Applause.] You don’t have to join an organisation to make that
decision, it is your own choice; you made it and should live by it.
As we heard from other speakers, I hope that today we will get much
more ideas on how, as a collective, we can improve the quality of
life, the status of health and the quality of education, but more
than anything else, the responsibility.
It is not on that we should always put the blame on the government.
Government has to take the responsibility for everything. If we do
something wrong, we must be called to order. We will never succeed
unless the community take its own responsibility. We must lead
ourselves.
Sukukhokela abanye abantu. Okwakho nje kukuba uzikhokele wena buqu.
[Don’t lead other people. Be your own leader and order your own
life. I thank you.] [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M Oliphant): Thank you very much, hon
Deputy President. I will appeal to all members to follow what the
Deputy President has done. I didn’t call her to order because her
time had not expired. In fact, she even has left two minutes left,
and therefore I will appeal to all members to do the same. I will
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now call the hon Acting Chairperson of the NCOP, hon Peggy
Hollander.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Hon House
Chairperson, hon Madam Deputy President, hon Premiers, hon Speaker,
hon members of the NCOP, hon Chairperson of the SA Local Government
Association, Salga, in the province, councillors, ladies and
gentlemen, I greet you all: Dumelang, good morning, sanibonani
nonke. I would like to start by thanking the Deputy President for
her empowering address on the need to exert ourselves in the fight
against poverty.
On behalf of the NCOP, I wish to express our appreciation to the
Presidency for the continued support as we embark on this programme
from province to province. Most importantly, I would like to thank
you, in particular, Madam Deputy President, in your capacity as the
Leader of Government Business, for ensuring that members of the
Cabinet continue to join us as we engage with communities in
different parts of the country. It is worth noting that the success
of this week’s activities was due in part to the active
participation of the Ministers.
The benefit of this programme is that it brings together leaders
from local, provincial and national government. It therefore
provides an opportunity for our people to see co-operative
governance in action. Of course, if it was not for the active
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participation of the Premier, members of the executive, the mayors
from the local and district municipalities, and the councillors, we
would not have been able to have lively engagements with the people
as one government.
The Taking Parliament to the People Programme is one of the
mechanisms designed to assist us as public representatives to
continue the dialogue with our people around service delivery
challenges. It serves as a platform to engage and facilitate
feedback from our communities in order to inform the choices we make
as we continue to extend the benefits of democracy. By initiating
this programme, the NCOP had the following two main objectives: To
facilitate public participation in Parliament and to promote public
education of the NCOP and our democracy.
Our first visit to the Eastern Cape in 2002 and other subsequent
visits highlighted the need to continue to engage our people in
order to enable them to take part in Parliament to the extent of
directly influencing the laws that we make. It became clear that
meaningful public participation would remain elusive unless we went
to the people. The grassroots response to this initiative has been
positively overwhelming as is evident by the huge number of
participants, including women and the youth.
The Constitution states that the NCOP represents provinces to ensure
that provincial interests are taken into account in the national
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sphere of government. It does this mainly by participating in the
national legislative process and by providing a national forum for
public consideration of issues affecting provinces. It is with great
pleasure that today we are able to declare that, since the
initiation of this public education and public participation
initiative in 2002, we have extended our footprints across each of
our nine provinces.
While we may have only touched certain parts of provinces we have
visited, we have been able to get a clear sense of the service
delivery challenges across the country. As we enter the second leg
of this programme with our visit here this week, we are alive to the
main challenge that confronts us at this stage in our democracy.
Deputy President, this challenge is a reality in the sense that
wherever we go, whether in Limpopo, Free State, KwaZulu-Natal or any
of our provinces, our people are facing similar challenges. They
talk about long distances to the health facilities, long queues at
hospitals and clinics, shortages of professional health personnel,
challenges in education, unemployment and challenges with the
implementation of the indigent policy for sustainability of
government interventions.
There might be some differences in emphasis, but the challenges are
quite similar. Clearly, we need a collective response. It is a
matter of fact that, through the Taking Parliament to the People
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Programme, the NCOP has become the recipient of the challenges and
proposed interventions raised by the people and the leaders. Through
this programme and follow-up work, the NCOP is in a position to make
a follow-up to see what has worked, in which locality, province and
under which circumstances.
What this points to is the fact that the NCOP is a better place to
assess the challenges that the people continue to raise against
current government interventions. It is also a better place to
approach government with recommendations on how best we think these
challenges should be addressed. I submit that this is perhaps one of
the areas we have not explored sufficiently as the NCOP. As the
Chairperson, I am saying this because our role cannot only entail
monitoring what the executive is doing; it must, as a matter of
course, also include raising their own perspectives and inputs on
how best we can change the circumstances under which our people live
for the better.
Our experience has shown that central to resolving the challenges
facing our people are the availability and utilisation of the
resources provided by government. In this respect, we have the
ability to indicate from our intergovernmental fiscal perspective
whether sufficient resources are being deployed and efficiently
utilised to improve service delivery.
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Members would agree that one of the tools we have in this regard is
the annual Division of Revenue Bill. I share the view that if it is
deemed necessary to ensure responsiveness to our prevailing
challenges, we must be prepared to reconsider our processes to
accommodate as much of the inputs from the provinces as possible.
Parliament’s theme for this year, “Parliament empowering Communities
for Poverty Eradication”, is a bold and ambitious statement. Through
empowering our communities, we believe that we can contribute
immensely towards the goal of halving poverty and unemployment by
2014. However, we must involve the people in coming up with
solutions and alternatives towards creating a better life and
quality of life for all.
Furthermore, communities must partake in the process. We cannot,
when we have clear government policies, have in our midst schools
such as the Agisanang farm school, which is located in a povertystricken community and is running without a school nutrition
programme. I am happy with the commitments made to address, as soon
as possible, the challenges raised in relation to this particular
school.
What I have observed though, during this week’s and some of the
other visits, is that people often get the impression that these
public engagements are meant to provide solutions to all their
problems; no, that is not correct. Government has dedicated
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programmes in place in the service of the people. Of course, the
challenge is whether people know or make use of such programmes.
Also, people cannot wait for a visit of this nature before they
raise some issues that impact negatively on development. This
includes where there are allegations of corruption, fraud or any
other offences. The police and other state bodies such as the Office
of the Public Protector are there to receive, investigate and ensure
that those matters are concluded.
The democracy we enjoy today provides for certain rights. These
include the right of people to express their views, including
through marches or demonstrations. However, in the exercise of our
right to march or demonstrate, we should always uphold the rule of
law and respect the rights of other people.
If we display a flagrant disregard for the rule of law, the state
has a right to intervene. It does not matter how agitated we are, we
have no right to burn the houses of councillors as a means of
protest. If that happens, the rule of law must take its course, and
members of the Police Service have every right to act against such
people. We support the work they are doing in ensuring that we keep
the integrity of the institutions of democracy and the hard-won
democratic order intact.
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In fact, what democracy demands of us is a partnership between the
people and the leadership. If we do not want this or that leader,
democracy allows us to voice that peacefully. Otherwise, if we do
not respect our leaders, we must know that we cannot demand respect
when we in turn occupy positions of leadership, and that is a recipe
for chaos.
We are also aware that there may have been some people who, during
our public engagements here, have sought to take advantage of the
platform that we made available to further their own agendas. We are
clear about the contract we have with the people and we will not be
sidetracked from our goal of ensuring that people are uplifted from
poverty and that their lives are improved. Towards this end, we are
committed to performing our task of ensuring that the issues raised
here receive the necessary attention.
We will employ different follow-up mechanisms, including ensuring
that certain issues are referred to specific committees for detailed
examination and feedback. As per practice, we will produce a
detailed report covering all issues raised here this week. The
report will be sent to the executive at national, provincial and
local level for consideration and action. At some point, we will
come back to give feedback and to check whether the issues you
raised have been attended to.
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The follow-up visits are an important tool when it comes to our
oversight work. During these visits some communities have told us,
for example, that the road they complained about was not attended to
for years until a few days or weeks before our next visit.
Definitely, that is not the delivery that we had promised the
people.
Empowering communities means that government must invest in quality
service delivery and that, in turn, people assist their public
representatives in ensuring that resources are correctly and
effectively distributed. Let us commit to ensuring that, together
with our communities, we join hands in fighting poverty, because our
people deserve better conditions of living and human dignity. I
thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Hon members, I just want
you to take note that there is a chair on my right, where the next
speaker must sit and await his or her turn to speak.
Mr A WATSON: Hon Deputy President, Acting Chairperson, Chair,...
... agbare lede, ander hooggeplaastes, dames en here, [... hon
members, other dignitaries, ladies and gentlemen,]
... dumelang kaofela bomme le bontate ba mona Potchefstroom, le ba
tlileng ka dibese mona Mafikeng ke a le dumedisa. [... greetings to
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you all ladies and gentlemen here in Potchefstroom, and those who
came to Mafikeng by bus; I greet you all.]
Eradication of poverty is indeed the biggest challenge facing the
government of this country. Parliament has a very important role to
oversee the empowering of communities in this regard. Listening to
the people this week and, in fact, at previous visits across the
length and breadth of this country, it is obvious that government
has failed dismally in this regard. Municipalities are literally
falling apart all over the country.
For more than a year, the DA councillors of Mbombela and I have
urged the government to intervene in the council of my province’s
capital because service delivery had come to a complete standstill,
mainly as a result of ANC infighting. Now, at last, the mayoral
committee has been stripped of its powers; administrators have been
appointed; and next week, the select committee of the NCOP will
investigate the intervention. But, in November last year, when I
raised the question again in a similar debate in the Western Cape,
my hon Premier called me a liar, but let me assure this House that,
as I stand here today, more than 200 resolutions affecting service
delivery have still not been implemented in that municipality.
Among the many complaints that we heard this week was one from a
seasoned builder who has built 50 houses and 20 toilets some time
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ago - structures that he says are sturdy and are presently happily
occupied, but the poor man has still not been paid for his labours.
In contrast to this, I can testify that some 40 houses have recently
collapsed on their occupants ... [Interjections.]
Mr V V Z WINDVOËL: Chair, I just want to find out if the hon member
is in the right province because we are in the North West and he is
speaking about Mbombela issues here.
Mr A WATSON: I am talking about municipalities, Chair. He is wasting
my time. He knows he is. [Laughter.]
THE HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Order! Continue, hon
member.
Mr A WATSON: The truth hurts. So, he is trying to stop the truth,
but he is not going to succeed.
I am saying that, in contrast to this, I can testify that some 40
houses have recently collapsed on their occupants in Emzinoni in
Mpumalanga because of shoddy workmanship and insufficient cement.
But, in this case, the contractors were paid in advance and they
have now disappeared. It seems to me that service delivery has
merely become a conduit for corruption and the empowering of those
with government connections. This week, some participants have even
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claimed and stated that government connections have now been
narrowed down to a certain faction within the governing party. What
a shame!
The burning question is: What role can Parliament play in ensuring
that empowering does in fact take place? The answer is quite simple.
The Constitution charges Parliament, particularly the NCOP, with the
duty of conducting regular and constructive oversight. That is why
these sessions of Taking Parliament to the People and regular
oversight visits by committees are so important.
But then we must listen to the people and not shut them up when the
truth emerges. [Applause.] We must not, as happened on Wednesday,
refuse audience to a grey-haired old man who has been waiting in the
queue for hours, supposedly in the interests of time, but then
follow with a real waste of time by inviting a Member of Parliament
to talk on stage about his experience in the apartheid era in a
clear attempt to deflect criticism and to manipulate the emotions of
the audience who have come here to talk about their problems.
[Applause.]
We must also not come here to do window-dressing. We must get back
to the people to ensure that the problems raised by them have been
addressed. [Applause.] We can only do that when we know what the
people have said and what was promised to them from stages like this
one by the leaders in their community. [Applause.]
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But I have bad news for you, my people.
Basotho ba re: “Ho tseba kotsi, ke ho feta pela yona”. Mamelang ke
le jwetse, kotsi ke eo kajeno! [There is a Basotho saying that goes:
“One has to go through a particular event in order to know about
it”. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Order, please! Hon
members, this is a formal sitting of the NCOP. To the communities,
you are sitting there in the gallery of the NCOP. In terms of the
Rules of the NCOP, you are not allowed to clap hands or hustle the
member, and that includes some members of the NCOP. They can heckle
one another, but I am not going to allow that as well. You may
continue, hon member.
Mr A WATSON: Ke re kotsi ke eo! [I say an accident is coming our
way!]
Last year, at the end of October, we had a similar excursion to the
people of Pniel.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, on a point of order: Is
Mr Watson addressing the NCOP or is he in a rally in Ikageng? Which
one is which?
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Mr A WATSON: I will speak because it is my democratic right!
[Interjections.]
I said that last year we went to Pniel on a similar excursion, and
some of the committees of the NCOP were scheduled to go and revisit
the place next week to check on what had been done in the meantime
in the last six months. However, those visits were cancelled because
the report has not yet been written! We are unable to send the
committees there because they do not know what to investigate, and
the provinces do not know what to fix. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Chairperson, I take exception
to the fact that the hon member is misleading this House about an
issue of substance. He was part of the deliberation in dealing with
the issue. He has the audacity to come before this House and lie
blatantly. [Interjections.]
Mr G R KRUMBOCK: You are lying yourself!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): What he is saying is
inaccurate, Chairperson. He is misleading this House.
Mr A WATSON: How can he call me a liar?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: (Mrs M N Oliphant): Order, hon members! Hon
Setona, can you withdraw the word “lie”.
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): I withdraw it
unconditionally, Chairperson. [Applause.] But I think the hon member
is not telling the truth. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant) Order! No, hon member! I
said you must just withdraw it. [Interjections.] Hon Krumbock, can
you also withdraw the word “lying”. Just withdraw it! Hon Krumbock,
I am talking to you.
Mr G R KRUMBOCK: Chairperson, Mr Setona said that Tony Leon shot
people from a helicopter ... [Interjections.] I am not going to
withdraw that because that is a lie.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Order! Hon Krumbock, I
said you must withdraw that.
Mr G R KRUMBOCK: No, I am not going to withdraw that. Tony Leon did
not shoot anybody from helicopters. I will not withdraw that.
[Interjections.] Forget it!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Order, please! Hon
Krumbock, can you withdraw that word? Hon Krumbock, I am the
presiding officer here. Either you abide by the Rules of the NCOP or
you leave this House. [Interjections.]
Where upon the member withdrew from the Council.
14 MARCH 2008
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Hon Watson, you may continue. Order, members!
Mr A WATSON: Chair, my party is often chastised for criticising the
practice of Taking Parliament to the People, but our criticism is
about the effectiveness and not the need. We support the principles
and directives of the Constitution, but certainly not as a smoke
screen to bluff the people. We cannot promise people attention to
their service delivery needs if we do not record those needs
effectively and are not able to follow them up properly.
[Interjections.] [Time expired.]
Rev P MOATSHE: Chairperson, I want to say to the hon Watson that
your time expired in 1994, when you failed the people of this
country. You participated in the then government and because you
could not sustain apartheid by empowering the few - everything went
down the drain - that is why you gave in. And, therefore, 13 years
down the line, the ANC is on course to turn around things but to
turn around things not only materially but to turn around things
also on a spiritual level.
Therefore you must create space. Don’t stand here and criticize
everything from A to Z but give the positives. What does your party
have to give to our people? We are not saying that if our leaders
are doing wrong, they are right. They must be reprimanded.
14 MARCH 2008
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The ANC is against corruption and fraud on all levels and that has
to be addressed at all times. Therefore we challenge you on that
score.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Hon members. Order!
Please.
Mor P MOATSHE: Modulasetulo, ntetle ke go leboge, ke leboge le
botlhe ba ba leng fano. Pula!
Motswana a re tlogatloga e tloga kgale modisakgomo o tswa natso ...
(Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)
[Rev P MOATSHE: Chairperson, allow me to thank you and everybody who
is present here. Peace!
As the Batswana put it, “Time and tide wait for no man.”]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Hon members, I am not
going to allow the members from the Northwest to disturb these
proceedings. The two hon members who are sitting at the back, can
you please behave. Thank you. Hon member, you may continue.
Rev P MOATSHE: Tshipu o rile ke lebelo motlhaba wa re ke namile ...
[The law has a very long arm ...]
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Ms J F TERBLANCHE: On a point of order, Chairperson, Chairperson, I
accept your ruling. I would just like to request that those members
of the public here who are interjecting and shouting at Members of
Parliament please be removed.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Hon members, I have
informed the public about the proceedings of this House. The hon
members are also intimidating whoever is speaking if that person is
saying something they don’t like. I think we have to tolerate each
other here. We are all members from the different political parties
but, at the same time, I am not going to excuse that, from the NCOP
members in particular, because we are members of the NCOP
representing the interests of provinces. Hon member, you may
continue.
Mor P MOATSHE: Bagaetsho, ke bua le baeteledipele le baagi; tau di
tlhokang seboka di siiwa ke none e tlhotsa. Motswana a re
tshwaragano ke maatla, a e se re bona e tlhotsa ra e nametsa thaba.
A re tlogeleng go otlana ka noga e tshela mme re nne le mokgwa wa go
bontsha gore re tlhogile. (Translation of Setswana paragraph
follows.)
[Rev P MOATSHE: Hon members, as citizens and leaders, we should note
that united we stand, divided we fall. As the Batswana put it:
“Unity is strength”. There is no need to be at loggerheads, instead,
our maturity should be reflected in how we solve our differences.]
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We’ve become mature and there are ways of dealing with issues in a
very mature manner ...
... gore re se ka ra dia go lwantsha tlala e e re tlhasetseng.
Pesalome 127 ya re: [... so that we avoid any delays against the
poverty eradication that affects us. Psalm 127 says ...]
If you laugh at this quotation, you are inviting a curse onto
yourself. Let it not be the case. Don’t undermine quotes from the
Scriptures because you will invite a curse on yourself.
Ya re fa baagi ba aga mme e se Modimo yo o agang le bona, go aga ga
bona ke ga lefela. Fa motlhokomedi kgotsa modisa a disitse mme e se
Modimo yo o disitseng le ena, go disa ga gagwe ke ga lefela. Ka
jalo, tshwaragano e ka re letla gore re kgone go lwantsha tlala e e
tlhasetseng lefatshe la rona.
Temakgolo ya re nonotsho ya baagi ke Palamente go fedisa tlala.
Baagi ba Tlokwe, Ventersdorp, Klerksdorp le ba porofense ya Bokone
Bophirima a re tshwaraganeng kgatlhanong le ntwa e e setlhogo e ya
tlala. Re tshwanetse go fedisa dipharologano tse di re sitisang go
tsena mo temeng ya ntwa e gore re lwantshe tlala e e leng teng
magareng ga rona.
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Go na le mananeo a a leng teng a temothuo a balemirui ba
tshwanetseng go a itse gonne ke bona bogare ba twantsho ya tlala le
tshireletso ya dijo.
Re na le manaane a tsa t emo a tshegetso a a anameng (Comprehensive
Agricultural Support Programme), CASP, e e nayang balemirui ba ba
tlhwatlhwa ba ba batlang go tlhagelela mo temothuong tshegetso ya
madi. Re na le “manaane a thutokatiso le koketso ya kgonts hotiro
(marketing and business development”), “thekiso le tsa tsweletso
kgwebo ” le “thekenoloji le thusokeletso(technology and advisory
assistance)” mo lefapheng la Temothuo ka jalo CASP e na le
maikaelelo le ditsela tse e abelang ba ba batlang go tsena mo
temothuong go lwantsha boh uma le tlala ka tsona. (Translation of
Setswana paragraphs follows.)
[We set ourselves up for failure if we do not invite God into
everything we do. Hence I am saying unity will enable us to fight
the poverty which ravages our people.
Our community expects to see Parliament playing a role to ensure
that poverty is eradicated. I would like to appeal to the community
of Tlokwe, Ventersdorp, Klerksdorp and the people of North West
province to join us in the fight against this poverty. We have to
put our differences aside if we want to fight poverty amongst
ourselves.
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There are programmes available, which farmers know about, because
these are the people who are involved in fighting poverty and saving
food. We have the Comprehensive Agricultural Support Programme,
Casp, which provides finance to valuable farmers who would like to
improve their farming skills. In the Department of Agriculture, we
have programmes for training and capacity-building, marketing and
business development and technical and advisory assistance.
Therefore, Casp applies a strategy to fund people who want to become
farmers and use it to fight poverty.]
The Micro Agricultural Finance Initiative of South Africa, Mafisa,
which is the financial pillar of Casp ...
... a re batlaneng le yona re tle re kgone go nonotshwa mo ntweng e
re leng mo go yona.
Re na le maanaane a kopantsweng a namolo leuba (Integrated Food
Security and Nutrition Programme) mo go bonwang diphuthelwa tsa go
simolola temo(“agricultural starter packs”), dipeo, didirisiwa tsa
temo (“farming implements”), le “dikungwisi”. Batho ba thusiwa ka
dilo tse. A re batlisiseng gore mafapha a a kwa kae mo tikologong ya
rona, mme fa go na le matsapa puso ya Bokone Bophirima e ka re thusa
le go re etleletsa mo ntweng e.
Re na le lenaneo le le bitswang LMP, Livestock Massification
Programme, ... (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)
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[... we should involve ourselves in it so that we are ready to face
the current challenge.
We have a programme called the Integrated Food Security and
Nutrition Programme where people can get agricultural starter packs,
seeds, farming implements and fertilizers. Let us find out where in
our area we can find these departments, and if there are any
problems, the North West government can assist and sponsor us in
this undertaking. We have a programme called LMP, the Livestock
Massification Programme, ...]
... to increase the country’s livestock production. It is pro-poor
in approach ...
Go botlhokwa gore re nne barui ba ba tla fanang ka nama mo
lefatsheng la rona. Re na le ... [It is important to have farmers
who will produce meat in our country. We have ...
... Land Redistribution for Agricultural Development, LRAD,
redressing gender imbalances in land access and land ownership
improving the lives of rural women ...
Balemirui ba tshwanetse go itse gore ke dintlha dife tse ba
tshwanetseng go di batla. [Farmers should know which projects they
should focus on.]
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The Land and Agrarian Reform Project, LARP, is in line with
Presidential Apex Priority No 7, speeding up agrarian reform ...
Re tshwanetse go itse manaane otlhe. [We should be informed about
these programmes.]
We have the Commonage Programme subsistence e.g. for livestock,
grazing and growing crops, vegetable and small-scale farmers, land
care and Agri-BEE ...
Badiri ba mo dipolaseng ba tshwanetse go sireletswa, ba se ke ba
ragiwa e kete kgwele ya dinao gonne le bona ke batho, ba na le seabe
se segolo mo kagong ya temothuo go lwantsha bofuma le tlala mo
lefatsheng la rona.
Mo ketelong ya balemirui mo bekeng e, re kgonne go phunyeletsa
dintlha tse di rileng. Maabane go ne go boetswe go bona balemirui ba
ba neng ba na le dingongorego mme Molekgotla-Khuduthamaga wa
Temothuo le Merero ya Mafatshe mo Bokone Bophirima, Rre Jan
Serfontein ... [Nako e fedile.] (Translation of Setswana paragraphs
follows.)
[Farmworkers should be protected to ensure that they are not
physically abused because they are human beings too, and have a
significant role to play in building our agricultural economy to
fight poverty in our country.
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When we visited farmers this week, we were able to make a
breakthrough on certain issues. Furthermore, we went back yesterday
to meet with farmers who had complaints and the MEC for Agriculture
and Land Affairs in North West, Mr Jan Serfontein ... [Time
expired.]
The PREMIER OF NORTH WEST (Ms B E E Molewa): Hon Chairperson, I
don’t know whether I’m audible enough. Let me follow on the speakers
who came before me by recognising protocol. Hon Deputy President of
the Republic of South Africa, Mme Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka; Acting
Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces and all the
leadership of the NCOP; hon Speaker of our provincial legislature
and the leadership of that legislature; all hon members from the
various parties who sit on the National Council of Provinces; all
our MECs who are here this morning; Chairperson of the House of
Traditional Leaders ...
... le dikgosi tsa rona botlhe ba ba teng fano le bomme mma dikgosi
[the chiefs present here and their wives ...]
... all protocol observed. Let me say good morning to you all,
ladies and gentlemen.
We have had very robust debates since the beginning of this week,
which have dealt with important issues. These issues came from the
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hearts and minds of our people. We welcome these robust debates in
this august House, and these kinds of debates move and stir the soul
of democracy.
We have had these discussions in the absence of two hon members from
the DA, who only just joined us two days ago. One of them has just
been sent out of the House. One wishes that they were here to listen
to the people as these robust debates took place, and not come as an
attachment later on to voice the kind of things that we always hear
them voicing.
The debates of this week have once again proven clearly that we are
not only dealing with the structural development issues that are
visible to the naked eye. Indeed, they are also about some aspects
of the negative social experiences that have an impact on the psyche
of our poorest in the society. Unfortunately, we have to keep on
saying that some of these things are inherited.
I would like, for one, to emphasise that indeed the robust debates
that we have had here are the lifeblood of democracy and are very
healthy for democracy. This means that, over the past three days, we
have truly witnessed the ardent lamentations of a democracy in its
true character, because democracy is about people and making
decisions that will lead to the happiness and wellbeing of our
citizenry. We understand that.
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It is quite a pity though that one has had an opportunity, during
the past few days, to sit next to some hon members who were saying:
“Listen to how angry the people are.” No, people were expressing
their wishes in a very democratic manner.
When I stood here on this podium on the first day of the sitting, I
said that there is a big difference between debates that are robust
and hooliganism. What we have seen here has not been any closer to
being angry or even hooliganism, but has been robust debates, which
we expect from our people. Therefore, people must not be
misunderstood, particularly by other members from the opposition,
who think that they can use this platform of the NCOP to pick up
some two or three votes.
It is “hands up!” to us, as government, alongside our people, to
ensure that the emotions attached to poverty, the emotions attached
to degradation and humiliation, the emotions of discrimination, of
hopelessness, of despair, are by no means treated as mere feelings
by people who have nothing better to do but complain. Therefore that
makes the role of the National Council of Provinces very important.
I am happy that today some of us are acknowledging that this
programme is very important. I like what the hon Speaker of the
North West province always says, that this is the only House in the
entire system of government that brings together all three spheres
of government, including the dikgosi [chiefs]. It is a very
important programme.
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It is for this reason that we remain steadfast in our resolve to
leave no stone unturned during this critical era that can indeed be
characterised as a defining moment in our history, where we must
launch a merciless onslaught in our battle plan against poverty.
Although we have not yet reached our destination - and we are the
first to acknowledge this at all times – we, in the North West
province, as part of the entire system of government, are here to
say, yes indeed, we have also participated fully, Madam Deputy
President, in efforts to ensure that the national government’s
priorities are implemented, in a quest to fight poverty, which we
have gathered to talk about here, over this whole week.
The North West province has also implemented the “business unusual”
24 Apex Priorities, as was announced by the hon President in his
state of the nation address on 8 February 2008.
We have included these in our programmes and are committed to,
amongst other things, ensuring that transformation, and indeed
social transformation, does take place, that we accelerate delivery
to the poor and also deal with poverty eradication, acceleration of
economic growth and development, building of infrastructure, matters
of the second economy and also build the scarce skills that we need
so critically, which the hon Deputy President spoke about.
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The mandate to eradicate poverty indeed becomes implementable at the
national and indeed even at a local government level, which, as you
know, is where all of us converge. This emphasises the fact that
provincial and local government levels are the implementation areas,
whilst the national government becomes the area where policies are
formulated. And we welcome all the policies that have been
formulated up to now.
Earlier on, the hon Deputy President indicated clearly and cited
some aspects of delivery that were realised, as reflected in the
latest community survey. We would like to say that, as the North
West province, through the social cluster priority programmes, we
have been able to make an impact on our people’s lives, changing
them for the better.
We have managed progressively to expand social services in the
province to the rural areas in particular. This is a broad range of
programmes that includes improvement in education, health, social
development, sports, arts and culture.
Through the provision of these services, many lives have been
changed for the better. Be that as it may, we would like to
reiterate that more still remains do be done; we are still not
satisfied. Therefore, our North West strategy for poverty
alleviation, which was finalised in 2007, has now moved to the
implementation stage, which includes the formation of a very
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dedicated war room on poverty. We will get into this war room
together with our people and deal with the issues that they have
been raising here in the past few days.
We have also moved past the many hurdles of inaccessibility of
social grants. We have managed to increase the uptake of social
grants to a total of just over 1,5 million people.
Coming to the issue of accessibility of health, we would like to
indicate that access to health care facilities is indeed a critical
matter, which we are dealing with progressively. We want to ensure
that we expand these health facilities and health services to our
people, understanding very well that accessibility to them also
means eradicating poverty.
A comprehensive programme of ensuring that this accessibility of
health facilities is attained in the province is beginning to be
rolled out, where we are looking at all the clinics that are there,
as well as all the facilities that need to be put in place in order
to ensure that our people have access to health care facilities.
Thank you very much. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr M A MZIZI: Sihlalo, Phini likaMongameli, unwele olude.
[Chairperson, Deputy President, greetings to you all.]
Modulasetulo, ntumelle hore ke tshohle makumane a mona le mane ke
tshohlele Motlatsa Mopresidente tseo re ileng ra di fumana ha re
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fihla mona. Motlatsa Mopresidente ke tla qolla feela tse tharo tsa
tseo ke ileng ka teana le tsona. Ho na le mme ya ileng a fihla ya sa
itekanelang, ya holofetseng ya dulang mane Promosa, baipeing. Sello
sa hae ke hore ha ba na seteishene sa maponesa le ha e le satalaete.
O ka utlwisisa hore motho ya jwalo mohlomong ha se yena feela, nako
tse ding le teng ha a batla ho tla moo ka ditekesi o tlameha ho
ntsha R5,00 kapa R6,00 leeto ka leng, hona ha ho bolele hore ha o
tlile mona o tla be o se o thusehile. Ba etsa jwang ha e le bosiu?
Ke a tseba hore Komishinara wa Profense wa mona o malala-a-laotswe,
o mametse hona jwale mme ke tshepa hore re tla fumana raporoto
haufinyana.
Ntlha e nngwe ke ya hore ho na le mme e mong ya boletseng hore
rapolasi e mong e mosweu o ile a bolaya dikgomo tsa hae. Hore na ke
nnete kapa tjhe ha re tsebe, ke seo re se fumaneng. Ho thwe ha a se
a bolela, ba re ha ba tsebe se bolaileng dikgomo tseo. (Translation
of Sesotho paragraphs follows.)
[Chairperson, allow me to fill you in about news from near and far.
Let me tell the Deputy President what we discovered when we arrived
here. Deputy President, I will quote only three incidents that I
came across. There’s a lady who is disabled who came here, who lives
in Promosa squatter camp. Her complaint was the fact that they do
not have a police station, not even a satellite one. You will
understand that she is not the only one complaining about that.
Another issue is that sometimes when she wants to go there by taxi
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she has to pay R5,00 or R6,00 for a single trip. Even that does not
mean that when one gets there one will get the necessary assistance.
What happens then during the night? I know that the provincial
police commissioner is ready, willing and able, and is therefore
listening. I hope we will get a report shortly.
The other issue is of a certain lady who told us that some white
farmer had killed her cows. Whether this is true or not we don’t
know; that is what we found. However, according to the rumour mill,
no one knows what killed those cows.]
I don’t take that with a pinch of salt.
O tswetse pele ka hore dipodi tsa hae di ile tsa lahleha, tsa kena
ha motho e mosweu e mong, mme le teng ha a ya moo ha thwe o tla
tlameha ho patala tjhelete e kana ka R11 000. O tla e fumana kae?
Mohlomong sepheo ke hore a hlolehe hape moruo ona. Ntlha ya ho
qetela eo ke ileng ka e fumana ke ya hore ho ile ha ba le mme e
mong, eo re ileng ra mmona a itutla-tutlaka fatshe mona e ka o a
hlanya kapa o nwele. O ne a sa nwa, ebile o ne a sa hlanye, ho
utlwahala hore o ile a ya ho mokhanselara wa hae mme a utlwa mantswe
a seng matle ho tswa ho yena. (Translation of Sesotho paragraph
follows.)
[She went on to say that her goats strayed and went onto a white
person’s farm. When she went to fetch them they said she had to pay
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an amount of R11 000. Where will she get it from? Perhaps the aim is
that she will be unable to pay and therefore lose her property. The
last issue I encountered was that there was another lady who we saw
throwing herself on the ground like a crazy person or drunkard. She
wasn’t drunk and she was also not crazy. It is understood that she
went to see a local councillor who said some ugly things to her.]
Dit kom daarop neer dat die uitlating van daardie raadslede het haar
eer aangetas. [It boils down to the fact that the remarks by those
councillors had impugned her good name.]
Ha re se ke ra bapala ka maikutlo a batho ba bang, le ha re ba bona
hore ba kojwana di mahetleng. [Let us not play with other people’s
emotions even though we see that they are poor.]
We are equal before the law.
Ke tseo he mme, tseo ke neng ke batla ho o tshohlela tsona. Ya
kgaola ya ya, tjhitjamanka. [Mahofi.] [That is all that I wanted to
inform you about. [Applause.]
The PREMIER OF THE NORTHERN CAPE (Mrs E D Peters): Madam Deputy
President of the Republic of South Africa, Ms Phumzile MlamboNgcuka; hon Acting Chairperson of National Council of Provinces,
Premier Molewa; Ms Speaker, Ms Thandi Modise; MECs, Speakers;
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Mayors; councillors and officials from local government; our
traditional leaders, and ladies and gentleman,
Baagi ba porofense ya Bokone Bophirima. [The people of North West
province.]
I think the DA must learn that they will never govern this country.
Lefa ba ka ema ka tlhogo ... [Even if they try whatever trick ...]
... and I think that hon Mzizi has indicated how a member of the
NCOP that visits another province should behave: Listen to the
issues that have been raised by the members of the community because
the NCOP has come here to listen to the people of North West, and
you need to be reporting to us who have come to hear from you what
the people of North West have said to you as the members of the
NCOP. So you would rather tell us about Mbombela, which is in
Mpumalanga; you are not telling us about what the people of North
West have said to you. [Interjections.]
As we speak today, we stand on the eve of the holiest days of the
Christian faith. The Emeritus Anglican Archbishop Desmond Tutu once
remarked that and I quote:
And then Easter happened. Jesus rose from the dead. The
incredible, the unexpected, happened. Life triumphed over death,
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light over darkness, love over hatred, good over evil. That is
what Easter means - hope prevails over despair.
It is therefore appropriate, hon Chairperson, that we, on the eve of
Easter, debate the theme of this important outreach programme by the
National Council of Provinces, which is “Parliament empowering
communities for poverty eradication”. Hope must prevail over
despair. Poverty remains the ANC-led government’s number one enemy.
This is not just a national phenomenon but it is also prevalent in
the Northern Cape in extreme degrees. It is of interest that one of
the three richest people in South Africa started creating their
wealth in Kimberley in the Northern Cape. What is also of interest
and extreme concern is that, despite this wealth generated by many,
we still today struggle with the legacy of colonialism and
apartheid. The majority of our people still remain poor. In
addressing this serious challenge, it is necessary that we as
government embark on processes that will focus on economic
development and the redistribution of wealth.
The Northern Cape must certainly be the best example of the
dichotomy between rich and poor: Mining companies make profits of
billions of rands every year - and according to the recent survey one in every three persons in the Northern Cape survives on less
than a dollar a day or is dependent on government security grants
for survival That is why I believe, on behalf of the people of the
Northern Cape, hon Acting Chairperson and Deputy President, that the
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biggest economic victory that the Northern Cape achieved since
democracy in 1994 was the relocation of the State Diamond Trader
back to its origins where it belongs, the Northern Cape and
Kimberley in particular. We are extremely grateful for the support
that we received from the President and yourself, Madam Deputy
President, in terms of this venture. It is however, now more than
ever before, important that we take this process forward and that
the practical realities of this benefit come to fruition. I
therefore today, hon Deputy President, request that you use your
influence and enhance the process of building the physical
infrastructure which needs to house the State Diamond Trader in
Kimberley. This will prove to the people of the Northern Cape that,
as government, we are sincere about our intentions to create a
sustainable, effective and efficient society, and ensure that we
decentralise economic and industrial activity. This is indeed
business unusual and in line with the 24 Apex Priorities announced
by the President during the state of the nation address on 8
February. I want to make specific reference to Apex project number
one, the Industrial Policy Implementation Plan. We urge all roleplayers - national, provincial and local - to support us in this
venture.
It is also my privilege, Madam Deputy President, to report back to
the NCOP that the economic redress Goat Enterprise Programme will be
launched on 18 March. We have invited the Deputy President to attend
it. I hope you will be able to make it, Deputy President, given the
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fact that this is an Accelerated and Shared Growth Initiative for
South Africa, Asgisa, project. With your support and that of other
role-players such as the Industrial Development Corporation, we are
proud to announce that the male and female farmers will benefit from
the sustainable project that will involve the commercialisation of
thousands of Boer goats. A lot of planning and strategising went
into this process, but we believe that now is the time for less talk
and more implementation. We trust and believe that this initiative
will also, through the land reform programme, put previously
disadvantaged farmers in a position to farm in a sustainable and
effective manner.
Hon Chairperson, I also want to use this platform today, in terms of
Apex Priority number 4, which is to implement an intensive campaign
on energy security, once again to showcase the Northern Cape.
Recently during a debate on the energy situation in South Africa, I
announced the establishment of the Multisectoral Energy Task Team
that will investigate and scrutinise the possibilities and
challenges that the Northern Cape faces. I once again want to remind
this august House that the Northern Cape is a province where the two
main rivers, namely the Orange and Vaal, converge before flowing
into the sea at Oranjemund. As a province, we believe that we have
the potential to come up with sustainable alternatives in terms of
solar, hydroelectrical and nuclear energy solutions. The purpose of
this multisectoral task team, which will involve various
stakeholders including government, Eskom, agriculture, business and
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labour, will be to find specific niches where the Northern Cape can
contribute to the national grid in addressing the energy crisis. In
this context, hon Deputy President, I ask your support to showcase
and support the Northern Cape.
To this end I motivate that the national Department of Water Affairs
and the Department of Minerals and Energy must consider building at
least one or two additional dams in the Orange and Vaal River
systems. These proposed dams can be fitted with hydroelectrical
generators which will firstly assist with the electricity shortage
in South Africa but also create work and opportunities for emerging
farmers cultivating the arid land next to the rivers. Linked to
that, a channel system can provide water to areas that are currently
suffering because of low levels of underground water.
As I stand here today, Madam Deputy President, the people of
Colesberg are marching because they have low underground water
pressure and they have serious problems with water. In fact, they
actually say they want to rename Colesberg to Sonderwater, because
we have a problem of water. It is a reality we do have serious
problems of water in the Northern Cape and we need to be able to
address that type of situation.
According to research, the Northern Cape has more than 300 sunny
days in a year. This must be an indication that the possibility of
solar energy needs to be investigated. Eskom has already indicated
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that an experimental solar farm will continue, but I once again
request your support in boosting this initiative. The abundance of
solar energy can certainly develop the economy and also contribute
to the national energy grid. Nuclear energy, according to specialist
opinions reflected recently, is the cleanest and safest form of
energy. Two sites have been identified at Kleinsee on the west coast
of the Northern Cape for possible nuclear plants. The Northern
Cape’s department of tourism, environmental affairs and conservation
has been tasked to assist the national departments with the
evaluation of the environmental impact assessments. Given the recent
agreement between the French and South African government, we again
reiterate ... [Time expired.] I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr F CACHALIA (Gauteng): Deputy President, Chairperson, Acting
Chairperson of the NCOP, Premiers, Speakers, mayors, Members of
Parliament and councillors, it is a great privilege to have this
opportunity to visit the community of Sonderwater, and I want to
thank the NCOP for making this possible.
In his state of the nation address to Parliament in 2001, President
Thabo Mbeki reflected on the historical origins of the poverty and
inequality in South Africa, and identified poverty reduction as one
of the key challenges and commitments of our new democracy. Let me
quote him:
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It is a past of endemic and widespread poverty and gross
imbalances in levels of development and the distribution of
wealth, income and opportunity. It is a past of an economy that
was immersed in a crisis and was destined to worsen.
We had to make the determination that this was a legacy that we
did not desire and were therefore committed to eradicate.
The socioeconomic challenges our country faces today are not merely
party-political matters. The Constitution requires that all organs
of state promote the socioeconomic rights of South African citizens.
Poverty reduction is therefore a constitutional imperative.
The poverty that our people experience today all over the country,
including here in Sonderwater, is the result of the accumulated
experience of dispossession, of oppression and of institutionalised
discrimination, and the problem of poverty and inequality is now
deeply rooted in our society. I believe that the poor majority - and
the African people, in particular - understand this historical
truth. Poverty did not arrive in 1994. Therefore, to insinuate
otherwise, to deny this truth, is simply lacking in any intellectual
and ethical truth and integrity.
The reason that poverty is on the agenda in our country today is
that we have liberated ourselves; that we live in a democracy which
has given our people the right and the freedom to speak the truth
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and to demand that their government be accountable and that their
government addresses their needs and concerns. That is why, now that
we for the first time in our history have an elected government
based on the will of the people, poverty is and has to be on the
national agenda of our country.
We have heard from the Deputy President once more and from all the
Premiers what is being done to address poverty across the country by improving services; by empowering our people through education;
through income transfers; through the empowerment of women, and
through the expansion of educational opportunity. It will take
decades still to complete this task. Along the way, we will stumble.
Along the way, there will be weaknesses. Along the way, we will be
misdirected and it is important, on those occasions, that we afford
our people the opportunity constantly to remind us where the
weaknesses are in the implementation of our programmes.
I want to address a different question, because it is clear what
government departments must do at all levels to address issues of
poverty. What is the role of the representative branch of government
in addressing the challenge of poverty eradication? Are all
representative bodies equally suited to this task or do they require
particular competencies, resources, and expertise? Must they be
structured in particular ways? I mean, would the House of Commons,
august as that body is, be able to address the challenges that we
face in South Africa?
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Public participation plays an important role in the formulation and
implementation of poverty reduction strategies. Therefore,
representative bodies with a poverty reduction agenda cannot be
content with simple representation and electoral legitimacy. They
must go further and actively promote participation of the poor in
decision-making.
How should they be structured in terms of their rules, procedures,
committee processes, and the skills of their staff? Too often we
think that in answering these questions, all we must do is follow
best practice in Australia, New Zealand, and Canada.
How do we ensure that our people have an effective voice in
participating in representative bodies when poverty itself deprives
the people of the resources that are required for effective
participation? It may well be true that votes are now equal, but the
capacity to participate in representative politics is not equal.
Representative bodies typically have a responsibility for four broad
functions that are critical for the development, implementation, and
evaluation of poverty reduction programmes, namely representation,
budgeting, lawmaking, and oversight.
How should they be resourced in order to promote poverty alleviation
strategies? What skills and knowledge do members need in order
address poverty effectively? What is the role of oversight? Do the
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principles underlying the Public Finance Management Act and the
goal-driven allocation of resources now provide with us with a basis
for strengthening oversight and improving the implementation and
formulation of poverty alleviation programmes?
I am sure that the Deputy President and the Premiers – and now that
I have had the opportunity to serve in the executive – know that
monitoring of implementation, so that we learn from experience,
constantly adapting our programmes, and improving their efficacy
really is the key challenge. Surely, that is the fundamental role of
our representative bodies. The question I am raising is: Are they
being adequately resourced and focused on in order to play that role
rigorously and effectively over time, because poverty is not being
adequately addressed. In addressing this question, we should avoid
demagoguery; we should avoid overly partisan politics, because the
solutions are not short-term, and the problems are intractable.
I am reminded, colleagues, on this occasion of a famous comment by a
famous African revolutionary. I am sure you all remember Amilcar
Cabral who once said, and I think this is good advice for members of
the governing party and, with respect, for members of the
opposition: “Tell no lies, claim no easy victories”.
I want to sincerely congratulate, and I am following really also
along the lines of the Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, the NCOP for
doing exactly what I think is right. That is, not simply to borrow
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institutions, but to shape our democratic institutions in the light
of our history and the light of our unique challenges. I think the
NCOP is the only second chamber in the world that is engaged in this
kind of exercise: Travelling around the country to provide our
people with a genuine voice, and that genuine voice has to be a
critical voice. We, especially members of the governing party, want
to hear the truth that our people tell us. Where there is
corruption, where there are weaknesses in our programmes, they must
tell us, and we will listen. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Ms B L NTEMBE: Chairperson, hon Deputy President, hon Premiers, hon
MECs, hon members, all protocol observed, I cannot make long
salutations, because my time is too short. I only have three
minutes. [Laughter.]
Chairperson, I greet and acknowledge the presence of our Deputy
President today in this House in her annual address to the NCOP.
Democracy is e monate [nice] and e monate [nice], indeed. However,
it is more e monate [nicer] for some than others. I, as a member of
the ID, agree that the majority of South African citizens are still
suffering as a result of the previous apartheid regime, and this
majority is black. I also admit that Rome was not built in one day,
but we cannot condone any injustices that exist in the previous or
present regime.
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There are injustices that happen that cannot be proved, because not
everyone has sight of the relevant documents. People cannot come
with the same kind of complaints year after year and those
complaints remain an untruth. No, we can fool some of the people
some of the time, but we cannot fool all of the people all of the
time. The pleading of people for help – as it came up here during
this week – is heartbreaking and nothing to laugh about. For people
to share water with animals, today still, does not live up to the
dignity the Constitution of this country talks about.
We want to extend and make Parliament bigger to be up to standard
with the rest of the world; yet, masses of our people live in
shacks. National Treasury gives orders to the Department of Foreign
Affairs to write off R31 million; yet, a senior citizen – a woman –
cannot have R 1000 written off. This is happening in Wepener in the
Free State.
I have not been a Member of Parliament all my life; I know what is
happening on the ground. The arrogance that some public officials
display towards our people in government offices is despicable. We
have to get our priorities right if we really want to uplift our
people. Where wrong occurs, we have to rectify it. The ID, however,
acknowledges the good that has been done. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs C M CRONJé (KwaZulu-Natal): Madam Acting Chairperson, I bring
greetings from Premier Sibusiso Ndebele of KwaZulu-Natal and his
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apologies for not being able to be here in person. He asked me to
represent the province on this occasion.
We believe the cornerstone of a developmental state is constant
dialogue and listening to the voice of the people. Over the past
four years, we have made it our mission not just to wait for
telephonic or even postal complaints and concerns from our people.
We as a country have conducted izimbizo in many areas in the
country. As the province of KwaZulu-Natal, we have had izimbizo in
every corner of our province. Also, through our NCOP, we are taking
Parliament to the people. In our province we have followed a similar
process - we are taking Parliament to the people.
I really want to congratulate the NCOP for this initiative. One may
underestimate the importance of taking Parliament to the people if
one is not sensitive to the history of our country. But, if one
understands where we come from, one realises the need the people
have to be able to speak to their government, to be able to voice
their concerns and issues directly to their government and to meet
their government. Gone are the days where the government under
apartheid sat in Cape Town and you never saw even the shadow of your
government. Here we are with the people. [Applause.]
In KwaZulu-Natal, the Citizen’s Charter is now in place and it lives
in harmony, side by side, with our Batho Pele principles and they
complement each other. This is a tool which, among other things,
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demonstrates our commitment to seamless service delivery. The
charter sets out mechanisms and recourse that the citizens have,
should they feel that the services promised have not been provided.
We believe that when we talk about poverty eradication that there
are two bases for our economic intervention in KwaZulu-Natal. These
are accelerating growth in the economy while at the same time
reducing the gap between the first and the second economies.
We must together focus on poverty eradication but, at the same time,
we need to focus on the flip side of the poverty coin. There is the
need to create wealth amongst a much broader cross section of
society. The fact is that the absence of poverty itself does not
imply that there is wealth. When we look at Broad-based Black
Economic Empowerment, if it is to achieve its stated goals, it calls
for an active role for the state. For Broad-based Black Economic
Empowerment to be sustainable, the economy must continue to grow at
levels which deliver the benefits to the country and to our people,
not just to a few, but to our people at a very broad level. This is
what is meant by broadening participation in the economy and by
building an integrated and inclusive economy that is capable of
achieving sustainability at higher growth rates.
In pursuit of this sustainable growth, we have also announced the
following projects in KwaZulu-Natal. There is a comprehensive
provincial strategy to build infrastructure, including appropriate
infrastructure for the 2010 Fifa World Cup. Major infrastructure
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projects that are currently underway in KwaZulu-Natal would be the
Dube Trade Port and Moses Mabhida Soccer Stadium. Then, of course,
there are projects throughout all our departments. For instance, in
the Department of Education, we spent just under a billion rand in
this financial year on infrastructure development.
Furthermore, the objective of the roll-out of the multibillion
provincial growth fund is to stimulate the economy and to provide
opportunities and access to finance for people who wouldn’t normally
have such access. Then there is the establishment of small, medium
and micro enterprise Development Fund, also in our province, with
participation by leading financial institutions. We have increased
funding for the agrarian revolution in the province and the
establishment of primary, secondary and tertiary co-operatives in
the province. And we have gone very far with our co-operatives and
their establishment. I will say a bit more about that later. The
overriding consideration is to create and spread wealth amongst a
much greater cross section of society than ever before.
When we talk about human resource development, hon Deputy President,
I fully agree with you and I like your slogan “Go Back to School!”
Normally when we talk about “going back to school”, we have in mind
the times when our children go back after the long holidays in
December and we then have headlines all over the newspapers saying
“Go Back to School”. I really think I am going to pinch this slogan
for our province to call on everybody to go back to school.
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Of course, we have gone a long way in that regard through our FET
colleges. We have a very interesting programme in KwaZulu-Natal and
that is our Mass Literacy Campaign entitled the Masifundisane
Literacy Campaign. As we speak, we have 140 000 previously
illiterate adults enrolled in this literacy programme. It was very
touching, towards the end of last year, when we had a mass
graduation for our adults who had become literate through this
campaign. The oldest senior citizen was a lady of 101 years old, and
the second oldest was a lady of 96 years of age. [Applause.] What
really touched me at that graduation ceremony - because we invited
them all and we made a very big show of the whole affair because it
really was a very important development in the province – was a lady
of 96 years of age who spoke at the event. I must say she is a very
sprightly 96-year-old. She said something that really touched us
very deeply. She said “Previously, only other people knew my name;
now I know my own name”. [Applause.] Obviously, what she meant was
that she can now look at her name written down and read it.
The human dignity that you give to people who were previously not
literate by bringing them into a literacy campaign is immeasurable.
Of course, it is the first step towards the further skilling of our
people. Then our Adult Basic Education Training, Abet, programmes
come to into play where you have more formal classes, and our skill
centres come into play. I really think that we cannot ever
underestimate the importance of getting our adults to go back to
school.
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We are not just talking about youth who left school prematurely but
we are talking about some older people. You can get somebody of 40
or 50 years of age who never went to school and is without skills,
and who needs to get out of that poverty trap. I really think we are
not exploring the potential through our FET colleges fully yet,
although we are doing a lot in that regard. I feel passionately
about very targeted short courses for adults who missed out. In this
regard, we are busy with the study jointly between ourselves as
education and the department of economic development in our province
to identify gaps in the economy and skills gaps and to actually be
very targeted in our training. Of course, there is also a huge
potential for longer courses. Many people can benefit from short,
sharp skills training and then they can become self-employed.
Through the Office of the Premier, we also developed through the
assistance of the HSRC ... Oh dear, I still had a lot to say, but I
will abide. [Time expired.]
Mr J P GELDERBLOM (Western Cape): Chair, Deputy Chair, hon Deputy
President, hon Premier, and hon Speaker, thank you very much for the
opportunity this morning to participate in this debate. I want to
discuss with you certain issues such as the Expanded Public Works
Programme in the Western Cape as well as poverty, and I also want to
focus on the realities of poverty and unemployment in the Western
Cape. I will also say something about the observations made in this
province during this week.
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The poor are seldom poor by choice. Very few people in this world
enjoy living on hand-outs. Most poor people know that they are quite
capable of earning their living by their own efforts, and are eager
to do so, but they must be given a fair chance to compete.
Poverty is hunger. Poverty is lack of shelter. Poverty is being sick
and not being able to see a doctor. Poverty is not being able to go
to school and not knowing how to read. Poverty is not having a job.
It is fear for the future, living one day at a time. Poverty is
losing a child to illness brought about by unclean water. Poverty is
taking your child to the clinic and spending the whole day waiting
with no one even taking your name, and then coming back the next day
and the next day. Poverty is an aged person going to the welfare
offices to apply for a grant, to be met by someone with a stern face
and being told in an unkind and uncaring voice that the person they
need to speak with is not available, and that they must come again
on another day. Poverty is powerlessness, lack of representation and
lack of freedom.
Poverty has many faces that we experience not only here, but in
every province. Over the past four years, we in the Western Cape
have addressed poverty and made certain that there are job
opportunities. Over the past four years, the Western Cape has
welcomed 217 investment projects to our province and we have created
61 746 jobs.
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On employment and small medium and micro enterprises, 48% of those
who procured for our government were historically disadvantaged.
Today, 58% are historically disadvantaged and are part of the
employment system. In the provincial economy, whose backbone is the
SMMEs, not much was done to assist them historically. Over the past
four years, we have assisted 38 121 SMMEs. We have plans in place to
help our people on the ground.
When it comes to certain programmes, four years ago, 18 549 work
opportunities were created through the Expanded Public Works
Programme. By December 2007, this number had increased to 118 000.
In respect of agriculture, land reform and restitution, 263 projects
and 578 000 hectares were transferred between 2004 and 2007. Through
the Comprehensive Agricultural Support Programme, Casp, in 2004
there were 121 projects and 1 450 beneficiaries, while in 2007-08
there were 117 projects and 15 391 beneficiaries. This, Mr Watson,
is the ANC government who governs in the Western Cape. That is why I
as a white South African can say to you today: Carry on with your
speeches. More and more white South Africans will join the ANC.
[Applause.] The reason is that more and more people are sick and
tired of people who criticise all the time, who are negative towards
our fellow South Africans. That is why we say: We are sick and tired
of “dikbekke” [difficult people], “suurbekke” [curmudgeonly people]
and “bitterbekke” [cantankerous people]. [Interjections.]
[Applause.]
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But, Chair, despite these achievements in the Western Cape, we still
have a lot of challenges in our province. We still have a housing
backlog of 400 000. We still have an unemployment rate of 26%. We
still have families ravaged by tik. We still have a skills deficit.
We still need an overhaul of public transport. Our decline in the
agricultural and textile industries has contributed to a deepening
of poverty in the province.
There is quite often a lack of interdepartmental integration, but we
will sort it out. We know that we in the province must improve our
oversight. We know that we have the responsibility to look at
officials who are arrogant and are not giving people the service
they deserve.
Poverty is a call to action, for the poor and the wealthy alike, a
call to change the world so that many more may have enough to eat,
adequate shelter, access to education and health, protection from
violence, and a voice in what happens in their communities. We need
to mobilise our own resources and to attract investment from abroad.
We need quality of governance. We will look at fraud, and we will
look at corruption. We took the lead in that regard in the Western
Cape.
Countries can only compete in the global market if their people,
women and men alike, enjoy the benefits of education and the rule of
law, with effective state institutions, transparency and
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accountability in public affairs. It also requires civic
participation and that is why we are here, to listen to the people.
We who take the decisions must make certain that the decisions we
take are implemented.
In the Western Cape we have ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Order! Can I call upon our
technicians to fix our microphones? I am sure, hon members, if the
member is audible, that we can be patient and proceed. I don’t think
it will be wise to stop until these microphones are repaired. You
can continue, hon member.
Mr J P GELDERBLOM (Western Cape): Chairperson, it is for this
province ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Hon member, it is unfortunate
that you were left with two seconds. [Laughter.] Your time has
expired.
Mr F MAHLALELA (Mpumalanga): Chairperson, Deputy President of the
Republic, hon Premier of North West, hon Premiers and special
delegates from various provinces, hon Speakers, hon members of the
NCOP, delegates from the SA Local Government Association, Salga,
ladies and gentlemen, I greet you all.
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Well, I did not prepare my speech to deal with the question of
Mbombela or to deal with the housing problem, but I will venture
into those discussions, as the hon member Watson has tried to do.
However, it is very unfortunate that he has used this platform to
distort facts about what is happening in the province, particularly
in Mbombela. [Interjections.]
The intervention that we, as provincial government, took in relation
to Mbombela was not as a result of a complete collapse of service
delivery, as he is trying to make everybody believe; it is very
untrue and it is incorrect. I live in Mbombela myself, and he does
not. [Interjections.] He is venturing an opinion on an issue that he
does not experience on a daily basis.
I work with communities around Mbombela; there has never been a
single day where they have complained that there is a complete
collapse of service delivery. It is very unfortunate that the hon
member comes to this podium and misleads the House.
Regarding the question of collapsing houses, this is not something
that has just been discovered by the hon member. It is not something
that happened yesterday or last week. It is not something very new
that he should come and boast about as if it is his own discovery.
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It is a challenge, and, as government, we have identified that,
owing to poor workmanship of some of our contractors, some of our
houses are in the condition in which they are, and we are attending
to that particular matter. So it’s not a matter that is newly
discovered.
We are grateful to be part of this debate and to represent the hon
Premier of the province, Comrade T S P Makwetla. We feel honoured to
be given this opportunity to share our own experiences of our
interactions in the struggle against poverty.
Empowerment, as the theme indicates, is a concept as well as a
practice that determines our daily activities as government. In
order to deal with the challenges of backwardness and
underdevelopment that still characterise the majority of our people,
we need to come up with very sustainable programmes that empower the
masses of our people so that they become their own liberators.
We need continuously to develop empowerment programmes that respond
directly to the legacy of our past, which has created the situation
of poverty that we are currently dealing with as government. The
majority of the masses of our people are exposed daily to the harsh
conditions of poverty. This situation makes us realise that, in the
spirit of “business unusual”, we need to do extraordinary things in
order to realise the objective that we have set ourselves of a
better life for all.
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The historical tragedy of Mpumalanga as a province is that it is a
prototype of the impact of apartheid and a glaring example of
poverty and disempowerment in the global political economy that is
driven by the value system of capitalism.
Today, in Mpumalanga, we still face huge inequality and lack of
access to resources that can empower our people. Although the
province has, over the many years, reported significant economic
growth, the main driver of this economy has been big business,
represented mainly by the mining sector.
The investment we have seen coming into the province has mainly
benefited those who have always been benefiting. That is, this
income has not benefited the ordinary masses of our people.
We all know that Mpumalanga is one of the biggest producers of coal
and generators of electricity in the country, but the beneficiation
accruing from this economic activity does not reach the ordinary
masses of our people.
Our people are finding it difficult to enter mainstream economic
activity either through their own business or through gainful
employment in the private sector. The structure of the private
sector, in terms of high-paying jobs and also in terms of
beneficiation, seems to be still reserved for the few minority
groups in our province. This, at the end of the day, does not cause
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wealth to accrue to the ordinary masses. Therefore, the majority of
our people are still stuck in the second economy, where they mainly
provide ordinary labour.
This situation is further exacerbated by the high rate of illiteracy
that the province experiences. This is a result of the legacy of our
past, which created a lack of access to education. We also
experienced a strong impact of HIV and Aids owing to the economic
conditions to which the majority of our people are exposed.
The question that we must therefore ask ourselves is: What is it
that we are doing as a province?
We have embarked on various programmes. One of the key programmes we
have developed is what we call the “big five”. These are five
flagship projects, of which the key project is the Moloto Rail
Development Corridor.
We are very pleased that, last week, the national government finally
agreed or accepted the Moloto Corridor as one of the key Accelerated
and Shared Growth Initiative for South Africa, Asgisa, projects. We
want to thank you, Deputy President, for pioneering this project of
the Moloto Rail Development Corridor. It’s one of the key economic
boosters that will empower our people in that region so that they
are in a position to realise their own progress.
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It is also a booster because the majority of our people find
themselves having to commute to Pretoria on a daily basis for work
purposes, and, as a result, they are exposed to a lot of dangers on
our roads. As we all know, Moloto Road has always been one of our
nightmare roads in terms of the number of fatalities that have
occurred on it.
So, the development of the rail corridor will then lighten the heavy
traffic that currently characterises that particular road.
Currently, we have more than 600 buses from this area undertaking
single trips into Pretoria in the morning. This creates serious
difficulties for our own commuters.
It will also reduce the time that they spend on the road, because
they leave for Pretoria as early as 4 o’clock in the morning and
come back as late as 10 o’clock in the evening. This means that
children are left alone without anybody taking care of them. Some of
the parents do not even know their children anymore, because they
leave in the morning when the children are still asleep, and come
back when they are sleeping already.
So, those are the challenges that this project is going to begin
dealing with, gradually. We are currently busy doing economic
scoping as part of a process of making sure that as soon as the
project is completed, we are in a position to deal with that
particular challenge. [Time expired.]
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Ms K A KGAREBE: Hon Deputy President, Ms Mlambo-Ngcuka; hon Mrs
Hollander, Acting Chairperson of the NCOP; hon Mrs Molewa, Premier
of North West Province; hon Mrs Thandi Modise, Speaker of North West
Province and all protocol observed, I am here to raise issues on
poverty alleviation, education and social needs.
The UCDP believes and trusts that ability is what an individual is
capable of doing. This idea of minimising poverty by providing
people with projects is good and acceptable but people should be
thoroughly educated and trained in the projects they have chosen to
reinforce interest, confidence and skilful work. Money given out for
projects should be monitored through production. Many hands make
light work. Elected ward councillors should take the responsibility
to supervise and establish functioning projects.
In education, teacher-pupil ratios coupled with school post
establishment should be revisited. Educators are carrying a heavy
load on their shoulders of learners who have no interest in
education and are busy disrupting meaningful teaching in the
classroom by talking, refusing to read and write.
Needy people and all the physically challenged should be provided
with grants, roads, houses and other capital projects that should be
a priority to serve people. The UCDP supports the NCOP’s visit to
bring Parliament to the people.
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PAGE: 71 of 137
Bagaetsho ke a leboga, ke lebogela gore ke tlile go bua dilo di le
pedi fa. Re lela thata ka tiro e ntsi e e neetsweng barutabana, le
bana ba e keteng molao o ba letlelela go itaola go ya ka rona re le
UCDP. Re ne re kopa mo batsading le mo molaong gore barutabana ba
fokolediwe tiro e ntsi ntsi ya go kwala gore ba tle ba kgone go
tsepamisa tlhaloganyo mo baneng. Re ne re kopa gore bana le bone ba
gagamalediwe molao gore ba tle ba rutege ba nne le bokamoso. Rotlhe
re le fa, re tswa mo morutabaneng. A morutabana e nne ena motho wa
ntlha yo o tlhofofalediwang tiro.
Se sengwe se re se kopang re le UCDP, ke gore makhanselara a rona a
dire tiro botlhofo ka go dira ka na tla go thusa batho ba rona. Ba
se ke ba lebelela gore NCOP ke yone e tlaa tlang go fedisa mathata a
a mo gare ga batho ba rona. A ba iteke ba dire tiro eo e nne
botlhofo fa re tla.
Ke utlwile Mme Mlambo–Ngcuka a re bana ba ba sa tseneng sekolo ba
boele sekolong. Re le UCDP re dumelana le ena bagaetsho gore ngwana
ke go ya sekolong gore a nne le botshelo jo bosiameng. A rotlhe,
batsadi le batho botlhe ba ba fano ba Bokone Bophirima re emeng ka
dinao gore bana ba rona e nne bana ba ba tsogang ba na le bokamoso
jo bo siameng. Re bua ka thuto le bana gonne ke sona se se
tshwenyang mme barutabana ba a sotlega, ba sotlwa ke tiro e tona.
Ke buwa ka maitemogelo, ga ke tlhole ke nwa dipilisi. Ke na le
dingwaga di le nne le dikgwedi di le nne ke le fa, ga ke sa tlhole
14 MARCH 2008
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ke nwa dipilisi. Barutabana ba tshela ka dipilisi. Jaaka Mme MlamboNgcuka a le fa, a tsee molaetsa o a o ise kwa go Moporesidente gore
barutabana ba bolawa ke tiro e ntsi ya go kwala le bana ba ba sa
utlweng. Ke a leboga. [Legofi] (Translation of Setswana paragraphs
follows.)
[Thank you, hon members, I appreciate the opportunity I am given to
address only two things. Our concern as the UCDP is that teachers
are overloaded in their daily school workload and the challenge they
face of unruly learners makes it difficult for them to cope. We are
appealing to parents and the government that teachers’
responsibility of writing as part of their teaching be minimized to
enable them to give learners more attention. We would appreciate it
if the law is tightened to help learners to be able to concentrate
on their lessons towards a bright future. We are all nurtured by
teachers. Hence, I think teachers should be first to be relieved of
their workload.
Another issue which the UCDP would like to raise relates to our ward
councillors who are supposed to be helpful towards our people. They
should not wait for the NCOP to come and identify problems amongst
our people. We request them to ease our work for us.
Ms Mlambo-Ngcuka pronounced that kids who are not at school must go
back to school. As the UCDP, we support her view that a child must
go to school so as to have a bright future. All the people of the
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North West province must stand up to ensure that our children have a
bright future. Education of our children is our priority, hence we
are concerned about teachers being overloaded with responsibility,
which may demotivate them.
I am talking from experience as I used to face the same challenge
for four years which resulted in raising my stress level. To
minimise my stress level, I had to continuously take tablets. I
suggest that Ms Mlambo-Ngcuka must convey to the President the fact
that teachers are killed by writing too much as they teach and
because of the unruly learners. Thank you. [Applause.]
Cllr D VAN ROOYEN (Salga): Hon Chairperson, Excellencies, hon Deputy
President, Ms Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka, hon Ministers, hon Premiers,
hon Speakers from our various provincial legislatures, hon MECs,
mayors and executive mayors, hon councillors, representatives of
various government departments and municipalities, esteemed guests,
ladies and gentlemen, bathobetsho dumelang [My fellow people,
greetings.]
Let me take this opportunity to commend and express my appreciation
for the Deputy President’s address, which in my opinion was precise
and very educative. On behalf of the collective leadership of the SA
Local Government Association, Salga, I’m indeed honoured to address
the joint sitting hosted by the NCOP and the North West province.
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As we are all aware, our country has entered into its second decade
of freedom with the strengthening of democracy and the acceleration
of the programme to improve the quality of life of all our people.
We recognise that we are at the beginning of a long journey towards
a truly united, democratic and prosperous South Africa in which the
value of all citizens is measured by their humanity without regard
to race, gender and social status.
I am inspired, of course, by our noble Freedom Charter and the
principles enshrined in the Reconstruction and Development
Programme. We continue with our social transformation programme
informed by the democratic principles of a people-centred and
people-driven state, and value systems based on human solidarity.
These pillars are attributes of a caring society and beckon us to
forge a social compact made up of all races that has, as its central
objectives, a social policy, the preservation and development of
human resources and ensuring social cohesion.
In his state of the nation address, our President, hon Thabo Mbeki,
announced that given the fact that our government is approaching the
end of its mandated term, a suite of 24 Apex Priorities have been
identified, which the government must focus on to further accelerate
progress towards the achievement of the objectives that the people
mandated us to pursue. He called on all spheres of government to
realise the goal of a better life for all through these priorities.
This, I must indicate, include our people in Pomfret, Kgetleng,
14 MARCH 2008
Makwassie Hill, Sonderwater here in Tlokwe
PAGE: 75 of 137
- not the envisaged
Sonderwater in the Northern Cape - and other parts of our country.
I must indicate and assure this House that as Salga we are fully
committed and would support our government in ensuring that these
priorities are fully realised at the end of this mandated term. A
key task for all of us is therefore to expand and deepen the
relationship between national, provincial and local governments. It
is particularly important for local government to visibly become the
sphere of government which brings a better quality of life to all
our people. The reality of local government today is that people
only seem to notice it when it fails to deliver, which is very
unfortunate. Salga intends, of course, to change this reality. We
must aim at getting our people to talk about how effectively local
government is working for them. I am therefore pleased to address
this plenary on Parliament empowering communities for poverty
eradication.
Experience has shown that community participation is an essential
aspect of effective, accountable governance at local level. One
important way of achieving successful and lasting models ensuring
that community participation takes place is through establishing
structures and institutionalised frameworks for participatory local
governance. Structured institutionalised models of participation
generally work where there is a political commitment to their
implementation.
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The sphere of local government is best placed to give practical
meaning and substance to the basic political commitment that we made
more than 50 years ago in the form of the Freedom Charter, which
states that the people shall govern. It is through the same
commitment that we also agreed as people of the country that all
people shall be entitled to take part in the administration of the
country. It therefore logically follows that as elected public
representatives, we are in essence compelled through the very office
we hold to foster and maintain good governance underpinned by public
participation in every constituency across our country. We are
therefore obliged to bring democracy to all corners of our country.
In our local government system, public participation is, amongst
others, designed to promote values of good governance and human
rights, acknowledge the fundamental rights of all people to
participate in the governance system and to narrow the social
distance between the electorate and us the elected leaders. In a
number of our areas, through the establishment of ward committees,
public participation has become a reality. Ward committees, I must
indicate to the House, when fully functional, have become vehicles
for enhancing participatory democracy in local government. In order
for communities to be active and involved in managing their
development, claiming their rights and exercising their
responsibilities, ward committees, as legitimate structures, need to
be effective, and as leaders we have an obligation to ensure that
this does materialise.
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As elected public representatives, we are the closest link between
government at large and our local communities. Each and every
municipal councillor is accountable to the people and compelled to
perform the functions of office in good faith, honesty and in a
transparent manner. In addition, the code of good conduct, which is
attached as Schedule One to the Local Government: Municipal Systems
Act, governs our behaviour. We are obliged, as mayors, executive
mayors and elected leaders of our respective communities, to act at
all times in the interest of the municipality in such a way that the
credibility and integrity of the municipality are not compromised.
I want to urge each and every one of us to again carefully study the
provisions of the code of conduct for councillors. It is also
important that all three spheres of government work together to
ensure that every district and metro municipality is properly
positioned to discharge their responsibilities to our people. As I
wish you well, without telling a lie and claiming an easy victory,
we are committed as Salga to ensuring that we build these
municipalities. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Ms N F MAZIBUKO: Sihlalo, ngibingelela iNdlu nani nonke ngokushiyana
ngokwezihlalo zenu, ikakhulukazi iSekela likaM ongameli. NgesiNgisi
baye bathi ... [Chairperson, I greet the House and all of you in
your different portfolios, especially the Deputy President. In
English they say ...]
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... all protocol observed.
Ngibingelela umphakathi wase-Potchefstroom. Malibongwe! Hola
bangani, Hola! Hola Seveni, Hola! Heita da! Bathi ngesiSuthu ... [I
greet the community of Potchefstroom. Malibongwe! Hello, friends,
Hello! Hola Seven, Hola! Hello there! In Sesotho they say ...]
Moja morago, ke kgosi. [He who laughs last, laughs best.]
NgesiZulu bathi isinamuva liyabukwa. [There is an expression in
isiZulu which says that he who laughs last, laugh best.]
There is a saying that in English could be translated as follows:
“When the car is standing still, the dogs urinate on it but when it
is moving, the dogs bark at it.”
Uma ngiyichaza ngesintu ngithi uma imoto imile izinja ziyayichamela,
uma ihamba ziyayikhonkotha. Yilokho esikuzwile namhlanje ngesikhathi
ikakhulukazi lama qenjana amancane ... (Translation of isiZulu
paragraph follows.)
[If I translate this in a Nguni language, I would say that means
that when a car is standing still, the dogs urinate on it but when
it is moving, the dogs bark at it. And that is exactly what we heard
today about the time factor, especially from the smaller parties
...]
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... bo mabinwa go tsholwa. [... those who don’t get involved but
like to bask in the success of others.]
IPhalamende njengoba livakashele lapha esifundazweni saseNyakathoNtshonalanga, ngethemba ukuthi izakhamuzi zase-Potchefstroom kanye
nomakhelwane bayo le ndawo baye bakuthokozela ukuza kwethu lapha
ngoba baye bakwazi ukukhipha yonke intukuthelo nemibono yabo nakho
konke abakucabangayo ngezinsizakalo abazitholayo.
Omunye ubaba uze wathi yena uyithanda kakhulu inqubo yentando
yeningi yethu ngoba uyakwazi ukuma lapha akhulume nePhalamende noma
emavukuvuku kanje. Amazwi anjengalawo asikhuthazayo akhombisa ukuthi
ngempela senza umsebenzi omuhle. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs
follows.)
[As Parliament has come here in the North West province, I hope that
the communities of Potchefstroom and those of the surrounding areas
are grateful for our visit. This is so because the people were able
to vent their anger, voice their opinions and all their thoughts
concerning the services that they receive.
A certain gentleman even said that he likes our democracy very much
because he can stand here and talk to Parliament despite his
shabbiness. It is such words which encourage us to say that, indeed,
we are doing good work.]
14 MARCH 2008
PAGE: 80 of 137
[Interjections.]
Mr A WATSON: Thanks, Madam Chair. I rise on a point of order to ask
that you rule on whether it is parliamentary for a Member of
Parliament in this House to use the word ‘chamela’. [Laughter.]
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Hon member!
Order! Order!
Ms N F MAZIBUKO: Acting Chairperson ...
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Hon member,
will you please withdraw your word. Will you explain? I will give
the hon member a chance to explain what she said. Thank you.
Ms N F MAZIBUKO: Sihlalo, uma uchaza izinto ngesiZulu akulula ukuthi
uzichaze ngesiNgisi. Isisho sesiZulu lesi. [Chairperson, when you
explain things in isiZulu, it is not easy to explain them in
English. This is an isiZulu expression.]
Ms N F MAZIBUKO: Balla ka mathata a bona. E mong o ne a raharaha ka
pele ho rona mona, ke nahana hore kaofela re mmone. Ntho ena e bakwa
ke hore batho ba hloka thuso, ba ya dikantorong tsa mmuso empa ha ba
thole thuso. Ha ba kokota monyako ona, ba bontshwa menyako e meng.
(Translation of Sesotho paragraph follows.)
14 MARCH 2008
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[Ms N F MAZIBUKO: They are complaining about their problems. The
other one was fuming in our presence; I think we all witnessed that.
The cause of this thing is the fact that people need help, but when
they go to government offices they do not get any help. When they
knock on this door, they are moved from pillar to post.]
... they are moved from pillar to post. I will ask: Where is Batho
Pele and where is the service pledge when our people are still
suffering almost 14 years into democracy?
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Thank you,
hon member.
Mr A WATSON: Madam Chair, the explanation that you asked for was not
given. I asked you to rule on a rude word that I find not to be in
keeping with ... [Interjections.] [Laughter.]
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Order! Thank
you! Order, members! I’m sorry that the microphones were not
working. Hon Watson, will you please behave yourself. Hon Watson, I
will give the explanation. Thank you. The explanation is in isiXhosa
and I will translate it in English. It says if people are saying
something about you, it means you are not succeeding or you are
succeeding, one of the two. I’m sorry, member, that I asked you to
withdraw it but you may continue. I apologise.
14 MARCH 2008
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Nk N F MAZIBUKO: Ngiyabonga Sihlalo. Ngizoqhubeka nenkulumo yami.
Ngethemba ukuthi nesikhathi lesi eseningidlele sona sizobuyekezwa.
Sinezinhlelo eziningi zikahulumeni.
Mina ngiyilungu likaKhongolose futhi kuKhongolose kunemithetho
ebekiwe lena esiyibiza ngokuthi nge-code of conduct kanye nendlela
yokuziphatha lena esiyibiza nge-discipline. Zonke izinto
ebezikhulunywa lapha amalungu omphakathi ekhononda ngempatho
yamalungu kaKhongolose kuyadumaza. UMthetho 26 woMthethosisekelo weANC uthi – ngizowusho ngesiNgisi... (Translation of isiZulu
paragraphs follows.)
[Ms N F MAZIBUKO: Thank you, Chairperson. I will continue with my
speech. I hope that you will also review my time which you have
already wasted. We have many government programmes.
I am a member of the ANC and in the ANC we have codes of conduct and
discipline. Everything which was said by the members of the public
here, complaining about the behaviour of the members of the ANC, is
depressing. Rule 26 of the constitution of the ANC states that – and
I will say it in English ...]
All members, without exception, must abide by the Constitution of
the ANC, Rules, the Standing Orders and Code of Conduct as adopted
or amended from time to time.
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Incwadi yokubika amasu nezinhloso zikaKhongolose ebizwa ngeManifesto yonyaka ka-2006 ithi ngaphansi kwesihloko esithi “Duty to
respect and serve the people”, ithi i-ANC... (Translation of isiZulu
paragraph follows.)
[The Manifesto of 2006, which is the booklet which has the aims and
objectives of the ANC, under the heading “Duty to respect and serve
the people”, states that: the ANC ...]
... has a Code of Conduct even for Councillors.
Ubesekhulumile umlingani wami ovela kwa-Salga ukuthi amakhansela
kaKhongolose ... [My colleague from Salga has already spoken, and he
said that ANC councillors ...]
... take an oath. They stand and say they solemnly declare that, as
the councillors of the ANC, they place their energies and skills at
the disposal of the community and they will carry out the task. They
will fight corruption in any guise or form and they will live in the
community that elected them. They will do their best to build and
develop the community.
Nathi malungu ePhalamende siyafunga sithi sizowuhlonipha
uMthethosisekelo wezwe, sihloniphe amalungelo abantu, siqiniseke
ukuthi izimpilo zabantu zibe ngcono, njl. Ngithanda-ke ukuphonsa
14 MARCH 2008
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inselelo – ngesiSuthu bathi ... (Translation of isiZulu paragraph
follows.)
[We also, as Members of Parliament, take an oath pledging that we
will respect the Constitution of the country, the people’s rights,
and make sure that people’s lives are improved, etc. I would then
like to pose a challenge here – in Sesotho they say ...]
... Ke phephetso ... [... It’s a challenge ...]
... kithi sonke malungu yokuthi ngabe siyakuthobela lokhu na. Omunye
wezakhamuzi ngesikhathi ekhuluma lapha esidlangalaleni uthe ilungu
likaKhongolose liye lathi kuye uma engathobeli umthetho kuzobhekwana
naye. Uzozithola edla emgqonyeni kadoti. Uyasho-ke nangempela ukuthi
uyabona izinto zakhe azimhambeli kahle.
Ngabe into elungileyo leyo uma singamalungu kaKhongolose? Ngibhekise
kumalungu omphakathi lawo angamalungu e-ANC. Ngithi kini uMthetho
4.1 womthethosisekelo we-ANC uthi ubulungu buvulelwe wonke umuntu
ongaphezu kweminyaka eyi-18 yokuzalwa, ngale, kobuhlanga, ibala
nezinto okholelwa kuzo. Uphinde uthi ... (Translation of isiZulu
paragraphs follows.)
[... and to all of us here as members, we need to see whether we
respect it. One of the community members here, when he was talking
at the podium, said that a certain member of the ANC said to him if
14 MARCH 2008
PAGE: 85 of 137
he does not abide by the rules, he will face the consequences for
that. He would find himself eating from the dustbin. And this person
says that his affairs are not going well.
Is that the correct thing that we need to do as members of the ANC?
I am directing this question to the members of the public who are
members of the ANC. I am saying to you that Rule 4.1 of the
constitution of the ANC states that membership is open to everybody
who is above the age of 18 irrespective of race, colour or creed. It
also states that ...]
... for those who accept the principles and policies and programmes
and are prepared to abide by the constitution and rules,
Uphinde-ke uMthetho 4.6 uthi ikhadi lobulungu buka-ANC... [Rule 4.6
also states that the ANC membership card ...]
... shall be issued to registered members of the ANC and to
persons whose application for membership has been accepted,
subject to review as aforesaid, and in all cases, subject to
payment of the prescribed subscription ...
UMthetho 4.15 womthethosisekelo we-ANC uthi uma wemukelwa
kuKhongolose uye ufunge uthi ... [Rule 4.15 of the constitution of
the ANC states that when you are accepted in the ANC as a member you
need to take an oath and say ...]
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I, ..............., solemnly declare that I will abide by the aims
and objectives of the African National Congress as set out in the
Constitution, the Freedom Charter and other duly adopted policy
positions, that I am joining the organization voluntarily and
without motives of material advantage or personal gain, that I
agree to respect the Constitution and the structures and to work
as a loyal member of the organisation, that I will place my
energies and skills at the disposal of the organisation and carry
out tasks given to me, that I will work towards making the ANC an
even more effective instrument of liberation in the hands of the
people, and that I will defend the unity and integrity of the
organisation and its principles, and combat any tendency towards
disruption and factionalism.
Akukho lapha kule migomo lapho kuthiwa khona uma ngabe uthatha
ubulungu buka-ANC, uzothola indlu noma umsebenzi nalokhu okubizwa
ngokuthi ama-privileges. Bengicela thina-ke malungu omphakathi
ukuthi uma ngabe kuthiwa asijoyine inhlangano, asiqaphelisise kahle
ukuthi ayikho into embi uma sithatha ubulungu bethu.
Ngithanda futhi ukukhuthaza amalungu omphakathi ukuthi masimpimpe
abantu abenza ukukhohlakala emiphakathini yethu. Ngaleziya zikhathi
zobandlulo kwakukhona izimpimpi. Azibuye futhi lezo zimpimpi.
(Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
14 MARCH 2008
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[None of these principles state that when you take up the membership
of the ANC, you will receive a house, a job and certain privileges.
I therefore request all of us here as members of the community that
if we are urged to join this movement, we need to realise that there
is nothing wrong with that – that is of taking up our membership.
I would also like to encourage the community members to blow the
whistle on people who do corruption in our communities. There were
whistle-blowers during apartheid times. Let those whistle-blowers
come back.]
You must blow the whistle and name and shame anyone who does
corruption.
Motlatsa Mopresidente le ditho, mona Afrika Borwa re na le dilemo
tse 14, empa tokoloho ho ba bang mona Portchefstroom le dibaka tse
mabapi ha e bonahale. Bongata bo sa ntsaneng bo hatelletswe ke
maburu le ba basweu. Re entse melao e lwantshanang le kgatello
bathong. Re na le Molao wa Tekatekano - Equality Act ha mmoho le
Molaotheo - Constitution, Karolo 2 ya Ditokelo tsa Botho e bolela
hore ditokelo tsa batho bohle di tlameha ho hlomphuwa.
Ho hlokeha hore batho ba tsebe ka dintho tsena. Ka sekgowa ba re:
“Information is power”. Ha o se na tlhahiso leseding menyako ya hao
e mengata e ka se bulehe. Ba bangata hara lona mona ba ne ba re:
“ANC e re tshepisitse nthwena le thwane, ebile ANC e tla mona hobane
14 MARCH 2008
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e se e itokisetsa dikgetho”. Ha ho jwalo, re tla mona hobane re
kgathatsehile ke tsela eo le phelang ka yona, mme re etsa bonnete ba
hore le lona le kgone ho bona tokoloho eo re e thotseng kaofela mona
Afrika Borwa. Re na le “constituency offices”, ke kopa hore le di
sebedise.
Motlatsa mopresidente o buile ka Asgisa – Accelerated Shared Growth
Initiative for South Africa le Gipsa – Joint Initiative on Priority
Skills Acquisition, ke nahana hore le mo utlwile hantle ha a ne a re
re tlameha ho kgutlela dikolong hobane thuto ke lesedi, ha o sa
ruteha o tla ja manina a dithaka tsa hao.
Re ile ra etela sekolo sa
Terror Pekana School hona haufi mona, sekolo se na se hauwe ka 1945,
empa matlwana a sona a hauwe ka 2006, le kajeno lena matlwana ao ha
so sebetse. Re entse melao e reng bana ba tshwanetse ba fumane dijo
sekolong, sekolong seo teng bana ba ja matsatsi a mabedi bekeng, ka
matsatsi a mang Mosuwehloho wa teng Mofumadi Maroga o tlameha ho
ipha nako ya ho pheha lelapeng la hae hore bana ba kgone ho ja.
(Translation of Sesotho paragraphs follows.)
[The Deputy President and members, here in South Africa we have had
14 years of democracy, but here in Potchefstroom and the surrounding
areas, we don’t see freedom. Many people are oppressed by the Boers
and white people. We drafted laws which are against oppression of
people. We have the Equality Act as well as the Constitution;
Section 2 of the Bill of Rights stipulates that all human rights
should be respected.
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There is a need for people to know about these things. In English
they say: “Information is power”. If you don’t have information,
most of the doors will be closed to you. The majority of you here
were saying: “The ANC has promised us this and that, and the ANC is
only coming here because it’s preparing itself for the elections“.
It’s not like that; we are coming here because we are concerned
about the way in which you live here; and we are making sure that
you see the freedom that we all received in South Africa. We have
“constituency offices”; we urge you to use them.
The Deputy President talked about Asgisa, the Accelerated and Shared
Growth Initiative for South Africa and Jipsa, the Joint Initiative
for Priority Skills Acquisition. I think you all heard her clearly
when she emphasised that we should go back to school because
education is light, and when you are uneducated you’ll find yourself
working for your friends and eating their leftovers. We visited a
school nearer here, Terra Peccana School. This school was built in
1945, but its toilets were built in 2006 and yet those toilets have
not been used until this day. We drafted laws that stipulate that
children should be fed at school. At that particular school,
children are only fed twice a week. Sometimes the principal, Mrs
Maroga, has to sacrifice time to go and cook at her place in order
for these children to get food.]
I only hope, Premier Edna Molewa, that there won’t be any money that
will be rolled back to the Treasury, otherwise heads must roll.
14 MARCH 2008
PAGE: 90 of 137
Xosha abantu abangenzi umsebenzi wabo. [Ihlombe.] I-Freedom Charter
ithi ... [Get rid of people who are not doing their work.
[Applause.] The Freedom Charter says that ...]
“the doors of learning and teaching shall be opened to all.”
Ngethemba ukuthi zonke lezi zingane nezifunda ezikoleni
zasemapulazini nazo zizoyibona inqubekela phambili. Uh ulumeni wethu
unikezela ngomfaniswano wezikole. Ngicela zonke izingane zihambe
ziyofaka izicelo zomfaniswano.
Komama ngithi sinezinhlangano ngakho ngicela nizibhalise ukuze
nikwazi ukucaphuna kulezi zinhlangano. Kukhona umama lapha othe
uneminyaka eyishumi engasebenzi kodwa unabantwana okufanele abondle.
Mama bengicela ukuthi usukume nawe. (Translation of isiZulu
paragraphs follows.)
[I hope that all these children and those who attend farm schools
will also see progress. Our government distributes school uniforms.
I request all the pupils to forward their applications for the
uniforms.
To women, I am saying that we have structures, and therefore, I
would ask you to be registered in these structures so that you can
benefit from them. There is a lady here who said that she has been
unemployed for the past 10 years and she has children whom she needs
14 MARCH 2008
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to feed. To that lady, I say this is her turn to stand up and be
counted.]
Bare mme o tshwara thipa ka bohaleng, tsamaya o ingodise, o bule
mokgatlo wa thusano (Co-operation) le wena o kgone ho fepa bana ba
hao. Ke a tseba hore mme ha a fuwa R5,00 o reka ditapole le eie a je
le bana ba hae, empa bontate bona ha ba fuwa R5,00 ... (Translation
of Sesotho paragraph follows.)
[They say a mother holds the sharp end of a knife, so go out there
and register, start a project for assistance, so that you are able
to feed your children. I know that when a woman is given R5,00, she
buys potatoes and onions in order to have a meal together with her
children, but when men are given that R5,00 ...]
... baya kamama uyangichaza. Baphuza lapho. [... they go to the
shebeens. And that is where they drink.]
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Ms P M Hollander): Order!
Ms N F MAZIBUKO: The Freedom Charter, under clause 3, says: “The
people shall share in the country’s wealth”.
Sihlalo, kunosozimayini abancane ngapha ngaseMakwasssie. Uma ngabe
bethi bayangena eduze kwalapho kulahlwa khona udoti wakwa-De Beers
14 MARCH 2008
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bayofuna okokuziphilisa, u-De Beers ubatshela ukuthi indawo yakhe.
(Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[Chairperson, there are small miners in the place called Makwassie
and when they go near the dumping site where De Beers’ waste
products are discarded, with the aim of looking for something to
make a living with, De Beers says that the land belongs to it.]
... and yet the very same De Beers is dumping on land that belongs
to the local municipality. You wonder if they pay rent for that
land.
Ngiyabonga, Sihlalo. [Thank you, Chairperson.] [Time expired.]
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Acting Chairperson, hon
Premiers, MECs, mayors, councillors, honoured guests, the residents
of Tlokwe and the surrounding areas, I would like to start off by
wishing the Chairperson of the NCOP a speedy recovery. I also want
to thank the Speaker of the North West for spending time with us; I
know that she has too many things to do – she is like Sdumo - we
highly appreciate that she could be here with us. Malibongwe!
[Praise!]
HON MEMBERS: Igama lamakhosikazi! [Praise be the name of women!]
14 MARCH 2008
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I want to start off by thanking all of you,
hon members, for being here and for raising the issues sharply in
the manner in which you raised them. I want to thank the members of
the community, not only because they are here today but ...
... hobane le ne le le teng beke kaofela le ntse le bua le Ditho tsa
Palamente ka dintho tse bohlokwa. Ke dumela haholo hore ... [...
because you were present for the whole week discussing important
matters with the Members of Parliament. I strongly believe that ...]
I thank you very much because you said things the way you want us to
understand them and, from what I heard, you did not pull any
punches. We are obviously not walking on eggshells here.
Asizanga apha ukuze siphathelwe phezulu njengamaqanda, ukuze
singaqhekeki. Abantu mabasixelele le nto bafuna ukusixelela yona.
Ngexa sasingena kolu gqatso, sasisazi ukuba asizanga apha ukuze size
kuphathelwa phezulu, koko size kusebenzela abantu, ... [Kwaqhwatywa]
(Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)
[We did not come here to be handled like eggs, so that we should not
break. People must tell us what they want to tell us. When we
entered the race, we knew we did not come here to be given five-star
treatment, but we have come here to work for the people ... ]
[Applause.]
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Having said that, our biggest challenge ...
... uma sihamba lapha, ukuthi sibuye nezimpendulo. Abantu
abangakhulumi, bakhulume ... [... when we leave here, is that we
must come back with answers. People who have not spoken should speak
...]
... and then ...
... re tsamaile maloba ... [... we left the day before yesterday
...]
... and we never come back with answers and solutions. Our biggest
challenge, whether we are here as representatives of municipalities,
councils, or provinces, is that we go back in order to bring
answers. We remain accountable to the people who brought us here.
Mr Watson, we need you to be a partner because, in a forum of this
nature we cannot disintegrate into a populist contest. These people
see us as this collective and not just as representatives of
contending parties but as hon members who are here visiting them so
that together we can work with them in order to address their needs.
That is what we must remember. [Applause.]
We can do our hectic stuff in Cape Town, but when we are here among
communities...
14 MARCH 2008
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... bathong, isimilo phambili, wa tseba [... people, respect comes
first, you know.]
By the time we leave here, we must have given people as much time as
possible and not make the work of the Chairperson to be that of
continuously asking us to either restrain ourselves or to be in
order; we don’t have that luxury when we have come such a long way.
Of course, this also applies to members of my party and everybody
that we have a responsibility towards to maintain decorum.
We have come here; I want to emphasise the theme that we are
promoting here, because we want Parliament to empower communities to
fight poverty. The essential message here is that we have not come
here to give people a fish. We are saying that the communities must
be taught how to fish for themselves. Empower the communities so
that they can fight poverty.
We are not here to fight poverty for them; though we are paid, and
very well, to make sure that we give the tools to the communities.
When we deny people the tools to fight poverty, we are committing a
crime. When communities go to our centres, police stations, clinics,
social workers, etc and we fail to deal with their problems whether
they need information or services, and we treat them as if we are
doing them a favour, we are taking away even the fishing rod with
which they can fish for themselves.
14 MARCH 2008
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We also need to do some introspection, find out what wrongs we are
doing that perpetuate the conditions of impoverishment in our
society and be brutally frank to ourselves as to where we have
shortcomings.
I want to emphasise the fact that in the fight against poverty – I
would like hon members to take this home with them – we have done a
lot to relieve poverty. What we want to take back with us is to
reverse the situation, because it is possible, if the people are
still young and still children and not adults, that poverty can
still be reversed. There is no reason why a child should be
sentenced to a lifetime of poverty.
Now, what are these interventions that reverse poverty and therefore
eradicate it? One of the most reliable ones is education, but teen
pregnancy, for instance, does indeed sentence our children to a life
of poverty. Abuse of drugs and alcohol are some of the things that
sentence children to poverty, so we need to intervene so that, as we
understand the fight against poverty, we need to say: Kufaneke uthi:
Angikakaqedi ngawe wena mntwana! [You must say: I am not through
with you, child!]
As long as you are not sure that you have defeated all these ills
that put you on a path to poverty, we have not reversed that
poverty. We must prevent poverty where it is still possible that we
14 MARCH 2008
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can prevent it – things such as feeding schemes, bathong! [my
goodness.]
When children are malnourished ...
... izinqondo zabo ziyakhathala ngoba basuke belambile bese
ingakwazi ukusebenza lokho okudala ukuthi umntwana angaphumeli
esikoleni. [... their brains get tired, because they would be hungry
and thus cannot grasp whatever is taught at school and, as a result,
they fail.]
So, those people who are stealing food that is meant for children
are abusing the feeding scheme and they are contributing towards
chronic poverty of children and then it is irreversible. In that
way, you are sentencing those children to a life of underdevelopment
and stunted development. So, our challenge in education is quality
education, keeping them at school and nourishing them with the food
that is supplied by government to children. We have to fight all
those things, such as abuse, security issues and everything else.
These are critical elements of the fight against poverty.
In the end, we are talking about reducing the number of poor
households. We must say, Madam Premier, in the households where we
are intervening, the grant is not enough – we should not fool
ourselves – it is not enough to eradicate, to reverse, to prevent
and to break the cycle of poverty.
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So, what are other things that must go with this income transfer
that the grant represents. Kuba le yintwanyana nje yokunqand’
iphango [It is just a little something to keep one going, but it’s
not enough].
In every family – if I am repeating myself, ...
... kungokuba neBhayibhile siyifunda njalo, siphinda-phinda izahluko
ezinye [it is because even when we read the Bible, we read the same
Chapters over and over again].
– in all the families, identify a turnaround strategy that, in this
family, this is the person who is going to turnaround the fortunes
of this family. Let us create support and systems around the
turnaround person so that, in every family we personally screen and
in the households that are poor, we can say that, in household 1,
uThemba is the turnaround strategy.
Uyafunda,uyasebenza, ngoko uza kukwazi ukuba ajonge uDudu noTshepo,
njalo njalo. [He is studying or working; therefore, he will be able
to look after Dudu and Tshepo, etc.]
This will mean that the future generation in that family will never
be poor. The poverty alleviation is labour-intensive. It is so
detailed that it cannot just be a broad brush. We need details.
However, we will never succeed if the families themselves are not
14 MARCH 2008
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taking responsibility. We are here to empower the communities so
that they fight their own poverty.
The task is that in the streets we should work together with our
ward councillors and our community development workers.
Mabazigcine ezincwadini zabo iinkcukacha zokuba ngokubhekisele
kusapho oluthile, ukungondleki kumi ngolu hlobo ngoku; ubani
akasahambi sikolo; umntwana osebenza njengomncedi woluntu,
“iCommunity development Worker”, aphambane aye esikolweni aye
kujonga ukuba ... (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
[They have to keep, in their books, details of the extent of poverty
in each family; a particular learner who no longer goes to school; a
youth who helps the community. A community development worker should
immediately go to the school to find out ...]
... why it is that this child has not been to school. Take that kid,
work with the people in the community and that child must go back to
school.
In the past ...
... sasingafuni ukuba abantwana bathi ngexesha lesikolo bahambe
ezitalatweni benxibe iyunifomu yesikolo. [... we did not want
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learners, during school hours, to roam the streets wearing the
uniform of the school.]
We cannot allow such things to happen.
As you see ...
umntwana wesikolo ezihambela edolophini ngexesha lesikolo, ubokwazi
ukuba, nantso ke intlupheko izihambela!
Ngoko ke ndiyanicela, ... (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs
follows.)
[when you see a learner walking about town in school uniform, you
should know that there goes poverty! That one has just been
sentenced to being poor.
Therefore, I plead ...]
That is what we must do: eradicate, reverse and prevent. The relief
must just be a cherry on top. It is only for the old people because
you cannot change their circumstances, and for the severely disabled
people because they do need to depend on somebody.
I also think that we are rethinking the issue of children who have
young able-bodied parents. The issue is about making the parent to
14 MARCH 2008
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become the breadwinner, not the parent to be a dependant of a child
because of the grant. We have to turn around that scenario so that
young parents can take responsibility for looking after their
children. So, these are some of the policy questions and challenges
that still face us.
I want to thank all the provinces because we visited all of them as
the Presidency as part of interactive monitoring. These are some of
the things that we picked up and identified, and the work that many
of you have continued to do in that regard. Some of the work that
has now emerged as Apex Projects was also informed by those visits.
I just want to highlight some of the Apex Priorities - not all 24 but some are more critical ones. Of course, all of them are
critical. The resources of the poorer schools is a critical
priority. There is the intervention in the second economy which
includes our increasing, significantly Expanded Public Works
Programme, jobs for growth and co-operatives for women, and the
provision of microfinance. Government has now provided generous
resources in relation to microfinance. You should invite Deputy
Minister Thabethe to your provinces because ...
... unento ayiphetheyo ... [she has got an ace up her sleeve ...]
... o na le mokotlana. [... she is carrying a bag.]
14 MARCH 2008
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... aza kunixelela ngayo ... [... which she will tell you about ...]
... of different funds that are there, and she has worked very hard
as well, in agriculture, for them to develop those funds as well as
funds for the youth.
The National Youth Service and youth development in general is an
Apex Priority as are the fight against communicable diseases, issues
of social cohesion, and energy security and savings.
I just want to highlight some issues. You probably have heard Eskom
saying that, when it comes to households and commercial institutions
as against industries and manufacturers such as mines, smelters and
so on, commercial companies have not done enough - and households to reduce the use of electricity. So, we need to continuously ask
you, when you practise energy efficiency, at a household level ...
... cishani amagiza ekuseni ... [... to switch off geysers early in
the morning ...]
... because in your house about 40% of the money ...
... oyisebenzisela ukuhlawulela umbane, ivela kumbane owusebenzise
kwigiza - amanzi atshisayo ongawasebenzisiyo. Ngaba lukhona usapho
oluthi lusebenzise onke amanzi egiza? Ngoko niwabiliselani la manzi?
(Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
14 MARCH 2008
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[... you earn to pay for electricity comes from the energy you used
in your geyser – hot water you do not use. Is there a family that
uses all the water in the geyser? Therefore, why do you boil the
water?] So, please switch off your geysers when you leave for work
and switch them on when you come back.
I am asking you provinces and municipalities – I am surprised at the
number of street lights that are on. When you travel from
Johannesburg, MEC Cachalia, from Pretoria to Johannesburg ...
... zonke ezaa nkampani zishiya izibane zikhanyisiwe ebusuku.
Abanini beenkampani endibaziyo ndiyabafowunela ndithi kubo,
“Inkampani yakho ishiywe izibane zikhanyisiwe”. (Translation of
isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
[... all those companies leave their lights on at night. I phone
owners of companies that I know and say to them: “Your company has
left its lights on”.]
That is a lot of wasted electricity. We don’t have to switch off all
the street lights but you can switch off some of them. You don’t
have to switch off all the street lights. So, there are lots of
basic things that we can actually do, which we were supposed to have
done long ago, but there has always been resistance to energy saving
in South Africa. I think we have now all realised why we have always
been shouting about saving energy.
14 MARCH 2008
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Of course, the use of heat in the house for cooking needs to be
considered because cooking use is another energy waster. It is
better to invest in a microwave so that ...
... uma ufudumeza, ungafudumezi ngaleli puleti eliwugqinsi.
Uyalibona leli puleti elinqugqinsi...? [... when you warm food, do
not warm food using the thick plate. Do you see the thick plate
...?]
So, we have to change our lifestyles in our homes so that we
economise. We need to switch off air conditioners in offices ...
... enisigodolisayo kushushu.[... you make us feel cold when it’s
hot.]
It’s a lot of energy that is being wasted because air conditioners
are energy guzzlers. Now, if we are all very vigilant about those
things, we will get the 10%. You can work out what is 10%,
“mahlalela.” [loafer.]
Yintoni thina silolu sapho esiza kuyenza ukucutha umthamo wombane
esiwusebenzisayo ngeshumi ekhulwini? Liyintoni ishumi ekhulwini
lwale dolophu? Liyintoni ishumi ekhulwini lweli phondo? njalo njalo
... (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
14 MARCH 2008
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[What is it that we can do, as a family, to reduce energy use by
10%? What is 10% of 100% of this town? What is 10% of 100% in this
province ... etc?]
... so that we can make sure that we don’t take away energy from
mines and those kinds of institutions whose reduction of energy has
implications for jobs.
Uma kumnyama endlini yakho, ungakhali ngoba awulahlekelwa msebenzi.
Lala. [Uhleko.] Lala, uqhubeke nokunye. [When it’s dark in your
house, you shouldn’t say you are not losing a job. Sleep.
[Laughter.] Sleep, and continue with something else.]
Another critical Apex programme, of course, is the anticrime
activities. We are all very concerned about that aspect. We need you
to participate in assisting the police to do their work and we also
need to challenge the police when and if they are not doing their
work. We need to increase the security in our communities.
Another Apex Priority is land reform and the productive use of land,
access to civic services such as identity documents, birth
certificates; all of those are also part of the 24 Apex Priorities.
Now, these are the things that we can do.
The term of this government is going to end and, when it comes to an
end, these are some of the things that we can wind up and hand over
14 MARCH 2008
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at a platform. This will enable the new team to come up running to
get going. These are the things that we can do. We have a lot of
building blocks so it should be possible for us to do all of the
things that we have chosen as Apex Priorities. It is because the
capacity for them to be concluded effectively does exist between and
amongst ourselves, especially if you adopt a business as usual
stance. Business as usual means that you don’t have to leave work at
4:00 o’clock. In fact, it is unheard of a public service ...
... osebenza ngewotshi; uhamba xa umsebenzi uphelile.[... who works
through on his or her watch; you leave when your work is done.]
Secondly, we have to make sure that when we adopt a business unusual
approach, it does mean that we also mobilise other people to work
with us. I am just saying that, as we implement these 24 Apex
programmes, we can only do that if we work with other people and
work as a collective.
Again, I do want to compliment the provinces for the progress and
the co-operation we have enjoyed with them on some of the critical
provincial Accelerated and Shared Growth Initiative for South
Africa, Asgisa, projects.
The MEC highlighted in Mpumalanga, Moloto, that we are making
progress there and ...
14 MARCH 2008
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... uma sithatha okubizwa nge-business unusual, okusho ukwenza
umsebenzi ngokungejwayelekile, nginesiqiniseko sokutho sizoyishaya.
Kuyothi kufika ukhetho siyobe sesihamba sigijima laphaya kule
Miloto. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[... when we take what is called a ‘business unusual’, approach
meaning doing work in an unusual manner, I am certain that we shall
conquer. When the election period descends upon us, we will have
been running, there, at Moloto.]
Excellent progress is being made at the Dube Trade Port in KwaZuluNatal. The State Diamond Trader in the Northern Cape has worked very
well with national government and it is making progress also on the
beneficiation initiatives. There are a number of provinces that are
involved in biofuels - thank you for the excellent inputs and
contributions that you have made - the strategy is completed; the
specifications are in place; the regulations are being finalised
and, very soon, we should be able to take the next step.
Those provinces that committed themselves to Asgisa to improve
especially transport infrastructure and to work on some of the 2010
related programmes, most of you have made excellent progress. Again,
I would like to thank you for that.
Again, in Limpopo, we are also making progress with the De Hoop Dam.
However, I want to say that I will be doing provincial visits just
14 MARCH 2008
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to focus on the 2010 infrastructure to make sure that the
infrastructure that leads to the stadium is also taken care of so
that we have a functioning stadium, the road to the stadium, and so
on. Also, the road to the stadium should not be a road that only
leads to the stadium but is also networked with the other transport
infrastructure for your town as well as your provinces. So, I always
look forward to those visits also because the catering is quite
nice. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): We thank the
Deputy President of the Republic of South Africa for her input and
her presence here with us today. Thank you, Deputy President, once
more.
There are two household notices: The first is that I would like to
thank the community for participating with us during this whole week
and who made this visit a success. Then, to the hon members, your
transport will be ready for you as planned, and I think you have
been informed about it.
Hon members, while the procession leaves we would like you to remain
seated.
The Council adjourned at 13:16.
14 MARCH 2008
PAGE: 109 of 137
__________
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
THURSDAY, 6 MARCH 2008
ANNOUNCEMENTS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
The Speaker and the Chairperson
1.
Introduction of Bills
(1)
The Minister of Defence
(a)
Defence Amendment Bill [B 6 – 2008] (National Assembly – proposed sec 75)
[Explanatory summary of Bill and prior notice of its introduction published in
Government Gazette No 30803 of 22 February 2008.]
Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on Defence of the National
Assembly, as well as referral to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for
classification in terms of Joint Rule 160.
14 MARCH 2008
PAGE: 110 of 137
In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of the Bill may be
submitted to the JTM within three parliamentary working days.
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
1.
The Minister of Health
(a)
Strategic Plan of the Department of Health for 2008/09 to 2010/11.
FRIDAY, 7 MARCH 2008
ANNOUNCEMENTS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
The Speaker and the Chairperson
1.
Draft Bills submitted in terms of Joint Rule 159
(1)
Prevention of Illegal Eviction from and Unlawful Occupation of Land Amendment Bill,
2008, submitted by the Minister of Housing. Referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Housing and the Select Committee on Public Services.
14 MARCH 2008
2.
PAGE: 111 of 137
Introduction of Bills
(1)
The Minister of Health
(a)
Tobacco Products Amendment Bill [B 7 – 2008] (National Assembly – proposed sec
76) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior notice of its introduction published in
Government Gazette No 30824 of 29 February 2008.]
Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on Health of the National
Assembly, as well as referral to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for
classification in terms of Joint Rule 160.
In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of the Bill may be
submitted to the JTM within three parliamentary working days.
(2)
The Minister of Housing
(a)
Prevention of Illegal Eviction From and Unlawful Occupation of Land
Amendment Bill [B 8 – 2008] (National Assembly – proposed sec 75) [Explanatory
summary of Bill and prior notice of its introduction published in Government
Gazette No 30458 of 16 November 2007.]
Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on Housing of the National
Assembly, as well as referral to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for
classification in terms of Joint Rule 160.
14 MARCH 2008
PAGE: 112 of 137
In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of the Bill may be
submitted to the JTM within three parliamentary working days.
(3)
The Minister of Defence
(a)
Castle Management Act Repeal Bill [B 9 – 2008] (National Assembly – proposed
sec 75) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior notice of its introduction published
in Government Gazette No 30803 of 22 February 2008.]
Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on Defence of the National
Assembly, as well as referral to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for
classification in terms of Joint Rule 160.
In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of the Bill may be
submitted to the JTM within three parliamentary working days.
(4)
The Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development
(a)
Reform of Customary Law of Succession and Regulation of Related Matters Bill
[B 10 – 2008] (National Assembly – proposed sec 76) [Explanatory summary of Bill
and prior notice of its introduction published in Government Gazette No 30815 of 25
February 2008.]
Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional
Development of the National Assembly, as well as referral to the Joint Tagging
Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160.
14 MARCH 2008
PAGE: 113 of 137
In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of the Bill may be
submitted to the JTM within three parliamentary working days.
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
1.
The Speaker and the Chairperson
(a) Report of the Auditor-General on a performance audit of the provision of sanitation
services at the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry [RP 11-2008].
(b)
Report of the Auditor-General on a performance audit of grant management at the National
Lotteries Board [RP 12-2008].
MONDAY, 10 MARCH 2008
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
1.
The Minister of Foreign Affairs
14 MARCH 2008
(a)
PAGE: 114 of 137
Strategic Plan of the Department of Foreign Affairs for 2008-2011.
TUESDAY, 11 MARCH 2008
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
1.
The Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs
(a)
Strategic Plan of the National Agricultural Marketing Council for 2008 to 2011.
THURSDAY, 13 MARCH 2008
ANNOUNCEMENTS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
The Speaker and the Chairperson
1.
Draft Bills submitted in terms of Joint Rule 159
(1)
Refugees Amendment Bill, 2008, submitted by the Minister of Home Affairs. Referred to
the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs and the Select Committee on Social
Services.
14 MARCH 2008
(2)
PAGE: 115 of 137
Prevention of and Treatment for Substance Abuse Bill, 2008, submitted by the Minister
of Social Development. Referred to the Portfolio Committee on Social Development and
the Select Committee on Social Services.
(3)
Expropriation Amendment Bill, 2008, submitted by the Minister of Public Works.
Referred to the Portfolio Committee on Public Works and the Select Committee on
Public Services.
2.
Introduction of Bills
(1)
The Minister of Home Affairs
(a) Refugees Amendment Bill [B 11 – 2008] (National Assembly – proposed sec 75)
[Explanatory summary of Bill and prior notice of its introduction published in
Government Gazette No 30835 of 4 March 2008.]
Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs of the
National Assembly, as well as referral to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for
classification in terms of Joint Rule 160.
In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of the Bill may be
submitted to the JTM within three parliamentary working days.
National Council of Provinces
14 MARCH 2008
1.
PAGE: 116 of 137
Message from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces in respect of Bill passed
by Assembly and sent back to Council for concurrence
(1) Bill amended and passed by National Assembly on 13 March 2008 and returned for
concurrence:
(a)
Mandating Procedures of Provinces Bill [B 8D – 2007] (National Council of
Provinces – sec 76).
The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional
Affairs of the National Council of Provinces.
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
1.
The Minister of Trade and Industry
(a)
Proclamation No 47 published in Government Gazette No 30594 dated 14 December 2007:
Commencement of the Corporate Laws Amendment Act, 2006 (Act No 24 of 2006).
2.
The Speaker and the Chairperson
(a)
Report of the Independent Commission for the Remuneration of Public Office Bearers for
1 January 2007 to 31 December 2007.
14 MARCH 2008
(b)
PAGE: 117 of 137
The Speaker of the National Assembly and the Chairperson of the National Council of
Provinces, as co-chairpersons of the Joint Rules Committee, present the Second Report of
the Joint Rules Committee for 2007, as follows:
SECOND REPORT OF JOINT RULES COMMITTEE, 2007
The Joint Rules Committee, having on 28 February 2007 considered the report of the Joint
Subcommittee on the Review of Joint Rules regarding Order in Joint Sittings and Rules of
Debate, recommends the following amendments to the Joint Rules:
1. Joint Rule 11 pertaining to “Relief of presiding officer” is substituted as follows:
Relief of presiding officer
11.
An elected presiding officer of either House must take the Chair whenever
requested to do so by the Speaker or the Chairperson of the Council.
2.
A new Chapter 2A entitled “Order in Joint Sittings and Rules of Debate” is
inserted as follows:
CHAPTER 2A
ORDER IN JOINT SITTINGS AND RULES OF DEBATE
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PAGE: 118 of 137
Part 1: Order in joint sittings
Conduct of members
14A (1) Every member, when he or she enters or leaves the Chamber or moves to any
other part of the Chamber during a debate, unless the presiding officer directs
otherwise, shall bow to the Chair in passing to or from his or her seat.
(2)
No member shall pass between the Chair and the member who is speaking nor
stand in any of the passages or gangways.
Members not to converse aloud
14B During debate no member shall converse aloud.
Member not to be interrupted
14C No member shall interrupt another member whilst speaking, except to call attention
to a point of order or a question of privilege.
Order at adjournment
14D When a joint sitting rises, members shall rise and remain in their places until the
presiding officer has left the Chamber.
Precedence of presiding officer
14E Whenever the presiding officer addresses members during a debate, any member then
speaking or seeking to speak shall resume his or her seat and the presiding officer
shall be heard without interruption.
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Irrelevance or repetition
14F The presiding officer, after having called attention to the conduct of a member who
persists in irrelevance or repetition of arguments, may direct the member to
discontinue his or her speech.
Member ordered to withdraw
14G If the presiding officer is of the opinion that a member is deliberately contravening a
provision of these Rules, or that a member is in contempt of or is disregarding the
authority of the Chair, or that a member's conduct is grossly disorderly, he or she
may order the member to withdraw immediately from the Chamber for the remainder
of the sitting.
Referral of member’s conduct to House
14H If a presiding officer is of the opinion that a contravention committed by a member of
either House is of so serious a nature that an order to withdraw from the Chamber for
the remainder of the sitting is inadequate, the presiding officer may refer the matter
to the Speaker or the Chairperson of the Council, whichever is relevant, for
appropriate action.
Expression of regret
14I (1) A member who has been ordered to withdraw from the Chamber may submit to
the Speaker or the Chairperson of the Council a written expression of regret.
(2) A written expression of regret approved by the Speaker or the Chairperson of
the Council shall be recorded in the Minutes of Proceedings.
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PAGE: 120 of 137
Reflections upon judges, etc
14J No member shall reflect upon the competence or honour of a judge of a superior
court or of the holder of any other office (other than a member of the Government)
whose removal from such office is dependent upon a decision of either House.
Grave disorder
14K In the event of grave disorder at a sitting, the presiding officer may adjourn the sitting
or may suspend the proceedings for a period to be stated by him or her.
Part 2: Rules of debate
Member to address Chair
14L At a Joint Sitting a member may only speak from the podium, except —
(a) to raise a point of order or a question of privilege; and
(b) to furnish a personal explanation in terms of Rule 14R;
(c)
if the member is unable to do so due to a physical disability; or
(d) with the prior consent of the presiding officer,
when he or she may address the Chair from a microphone on the floor of the
Chamber.
Calling of members
14M A member shall be called in a debate by the presiding officer in accordance with a
list of scheduled speakers.
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Time limits for speeches
14N Members shall be restricted, in regard to the length of time they speak, to the times
allocated to them in the list contemplated in Rule 14M.
Reference to member by name
14O No member shall refer to any other member by his or her first name or names only.
Offensive language
14P
No member shall use offensive or unbecoming language.
Matters sub judice
14Q
No member shall reflect on the merits of any matter on which a judicial decision is
pending.
Explanations
14R (1)
An explanation during debate is allowed only when a material part of a
member's speech has been misquoted or misunderstood, but such member shall
not be permitted to introduce any new matter, and no debate shall be allowed
upon such explanation.
(2)
A member may, with the prior consent of the presiding officer, also explain
matters of a personal nature, but such matters may not be debated, and the
member shall confine himself or herself strictly to the vindication of his or her
own conduct and may not speak for longer than three minutes.
14 MARCH 2008
PAGE: 122 of 137
Points of order
14S (1)
When a point of order is raised, the member called to order shall resume his or
her seat, and after the point of order has been stated to the presiding officer by
the member raising it, the presiding officer shall give his or her ruling or
decision thereon either forthwith or subsequently.
(2)
A ruling to be given after the sitting has adjourned shall be given in the
National Assembly or in the National Council of Provinces, depending on
which House the offending member belongs to.
(3)
A ruling to be given in accordance with Subrule (2) may, by agreement of the
presiding officers, be delivered and enforced by a presiding officer of the
House to which the offending member belongs on behalf of a presiding officer
from the other House.
Acting for absent member
14T A member may take charge of an order of the day in the absence of the member in
charge, provided he or she has been authorised to do so by the absent member.
Right of members to speak
14U A member may speak —
(a) when called upon to do so by the presiding officer; or
(b) to a point of order.
When reply allowed
14 MARCH 2008
PAGE: 123 of 137
14V A reply shall be allowed to the member introducing a subject for discussion (except
in the case of the President's state-of-the-nation address) or to the member in charge
of an order of the day.
Debate closed
14W
A reply to a debate closes the debate.
Report to be considered.
CREDA INSERT REPORT - T080313E-insert1 – PAGES 443-457.
COMMITTEE REPORTS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
1. Joint Budget Committee report on the Budget and Medium Term Expenditure Framework,
dated 07 March 2008
“The economic expansion since 1994 has allowed public spending to rise rapidly in all areas…Over
the period ahead, government’s spending plans again allow for a progressive extension of public
services, informed by the “apex priorities” outlined by President Mbeki in the State of the Nation
Address” – the Minister of Finance, Hon. T Manuel, Budget Speech 2008.
Having considered the Appropriation Bill [B 3-08 2008] (s77) and Division of Revenue 2008/09
[B 4-2008] (s76) (1) together with the Budget Review and Estimates of National Expenditure
14 MARCH 2008
PAGE: 124 of 137
(ENE), and after reviewing the policy priorities as stated in the State of Nation Address (SONA),
the Joint Budget Committee reports as follows:
1.
INTRODUCTION
The Minister of Finance, the Hon. T Manuel, on 20 February 2008 tabled the budget – along with the
Budget Review and Estimates of National Expenditure (ENE) 2008/09-2010/11 which includes the
Medium-Term Expenditure Framework (MTEF). The budget 2008 was then referred to the Joint
Budget Committee (JBC) (ATC 17 and 18 - 2008) to consider in terms of its mandate. The Committee
is mandated to “consider proposed allocations in the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework and the
Appropriation Bill and whether these allocations are broadly in keeping with the policy directions of
Government.”
The Committee, jointly with the Portfolio Committee on Finance, engaged with the Minister of
Finance, National Treasury and the South African Revenue Services (SARS) on the budget and MTEF.
Further engagements where held on the Financial and Fiscal Commission’s (FFC) recommendations
for the Division of Revenue. The Committee then engaged separately with National Treasury on the
Budget Review, with a focus on medium-term priorities and the division of resources across clusters.
This report is divided into three sections. Firstly, it comments on the fiscal framework, government
priorities and the division of resources between spheres of government, secondly on the medium-term
expenditure framework and the various government services and sectors and, lastly, on the
Committee’s recommendations. The report is in preparation for the First Reading Debate on the
Appropriation Bill.
2.
THE FISCAL FRAMEWORK AND BUDGET PRIORITIES
14 MARCH 2008
PAGE: 125 of 137
Uncertainties in the global economy, rising inflation and supply constraints are expected to inhibit
South Africa’s medium-term economic prospects, with growth projected to slow to around 4 percent in
2008, rising to over 4.5 percent by 2010. These factors could constrain government’s ability to meet its
target of 6 percent annual growth by 2010. Notwithstanding these constraints government’s mediumterm social and economic objectives have been adequately funded for effective implementation. These
objectives, as set out in the government’s programme of action and MTBPS, include:

Investing in both economic and social infrastructure to facilitate economic growth and access
to basic services;

Improving education, health and other services to reduce poverty;

Enhancing job creation by supporting labour-absorbing industries and expanding employmentintensive government programmes;

Improving the efficacy of police services and the justice system; and

Enhancing the effectiveness of economic and sectoral interventions through the regulation of
and support for business.
These objectives are further defined through the identification of 24 apex priorities for the forthcoming
year. Specific interventions include, inter alia, expanding industrial policy, implementing a campaign
to save electricity, consolidating skills development initiatives, strengthening the machinery of state,
accelerating employment and poverty alleviation programmes and revamping the criminal justice
system.
To accomplish government’s developmental objectives, the 2008 budget and MTEF propose that an
additional R115.6 billion be added to the fiscus over the medium-term. Of the additional R115.6
14 MARCH 2008
PAGE: 126 of 137
billion, R78 billion is made available to national government, R45 billion for provincial government
and R14 billion for local government.
The Committee believes that for these additions to advance government’s developmental agenda and
enhance service delivery they must be accompanied by robust departmental planning, implementation,
monitoring and timeous reporting. The Committee has consistently identified the misalignment of
government planning, budgeting, and financial management. This includes under-spending, excessive
virements i.e. shifting of funds between programmes, and wasteful expenditure – which becomes
increasingly evident towards the end of the financial year.
Government has set a target of realizing efficiency savings of R2.3 billion over the next three years.
Departments should clearly define how they intend to contribute to meeting this target. The
Committee, in its report on the 2007 MTBPS (ATC: 137- 2007), asked National Treasury to develop a
monitoring mechanism for government and report progress on this initiative.
The Committee has also taken cognisance of reforms to departmental budget formats as reflected in
the ENE, and specifically, as part of the Performance Information Framework, the inclusion of
quantifiable objectives and performance indicators for each department. The Committee considers this
as an extremely important development as it will provide the foundation for results-based budgeting
and improve oversight. The Committee will continue to engage National Treasury on the budget
format.
3.
GOVERNMENT
SERVICES
FRAMEWORK
Governance and Administration
AND
THE
MEDIUM
TERM
EXPENDITURE
14 MARCH 2008
PAGE: 127 of 137
While the steady expansion of the fiscus is encouraging, the Committee maintains that improved
delivery is only possible if government develops the capacity to absorb and spend resources effectively
and efficiently. Although government expenditure has improved, the Committee has noted ongoing
challenges in spending across all levels of government, which have compromised better service
delivery. The situation is acknowledged by National Treasury that: “growth in public spending has not
been matched by a concomitant improvement in service delivery”.
Given the capacity constraints, the Committee agrees with the emphasis given in the budget to training
and capacity-building initiatives. Training expenditure in national departments is set to grow by 15
percent over the next three years. Government should give clear indicators on training and capacitybuilding targets. As highlighted in the MTBPS report, it is essential that the South African
Management Development Institute (SAMDI), which receives an additional R103 million over the
MTEF, complete its restructuring process and focus on implementation. It must also ensure that
training programmes are of a high quality and are fully implemented.
The Committee is of the opinion that the recurring departmental vacancies are having a negative
impact on budgeting, spending and service delivery. However government’s commitment to fill key
posts during this year is a positive step but is not sufficient. The Committee believes that government
should extend this commitment, which must be acted upon, to all vacancies. In addition, there should
be a clear correlation between human resource plans and budgets in order to avoid excessive
virements, especially from compensation of employees, later in the year. The Committee will continue
to monitor this phenomenon closely and intervene if this trend persists.
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The integration of planning and information systems are prerequisites for efficiency. Government has
consequently undertaken to further align national, provincial and local development plans. Given the
severe capacity shortcomings in many municipalities measures should be taken to ensure that the R1.5
billion allocated to modernise local government budgeting and financial management systems is wellspent. These resources must be matched by a discernible improvement in financial management and
the delivery of basic services.
As part of the turnaround strategy to improve the capacity and organization of the Department of
Home Affairs (DoHA), the budget proposes an additional R1.9 billion for the Department. Despite
progress made, the Committee has observed ongoing deficiencies, which continue to frustrate citizens
and undermine wider efforts in the public service.
Economic Services and Infrastructure
To stimulate economic development and job creation, the budget and MTEF provide a prudent R2.3
billion for industrial policy initiatives and a further R5 billion in tax incentives. The Committee agrees
with these allocations but the swift implementation of the Industrial Policy Action Plan is fundamental.
The Committee is aware that agriculture’s contribution to the economy is well below its potential,
which compromises exports and food security. At the same time there is a pressing need to finalize
land restitution and accelerate distribution. While the budget provides a significant cash injection for
these sectors, it is important that the departments of Land Affairs (DoLA) and Agriculture (DoA)
overcome their organizational deficiencies. Given the challenges there is a risk that the allocated funds
will not be efficiently, effectively and economically utilized. The challenges confronting the Land
Bank should also be addressed as a priority to overcome wasteful and fruitless expenditure.
14 MARCH 2008
PAGE: 129 of 137
Public infrastructure and capital investment are prerequisites for sustained growth, employment
creation and the hosting a successful 2010 World Cup. The budget and MTEF reflect a strong
emphasis on infrastructure investment with expenditure set to rise from R124 billion in 2007/08 to
R210 billion in 2010/11 – a 1.5 percent increase as a percent of GDP. A large share of proposed
investment has been earmarked for the built environment. Although significant, infrastructure
spending needs to accelerate over the long term.
Economic development depends on efficient transport systems. The budget and MTEF reflect strong
growth in the transport sector, with expenditure set to reach R23 billion by 2010/11. The Committee
agrees with the need for accelerated investment in this sector but budgetary expansion must be
matched by the simultaneous expansion of monitoring and evaluation systems.
The housing sector budget is set to increase at an annual average rate of 19.1 percent between 2007/08
and 2010/11, more than any other. As underlined in the MTBPS report, the lack of capacity in the
national Department of Housing (DoH), provinces and municipalities as well as weaknesses in coordination could hamper service delivery.
Power shortages have reached critical proportions over the past months, jeopardizing government’s
economic development programmes. Investment in generation capacity and energy conservation is
therefore an urgent and obvious priority. Government has indicated that it will invest up to R60 billion
in Eskom over the next five years, of which an estimated R20 billion will be spent over the
MTEFperiod. This is a substantial and long-term investment in the economy.
14 MARCH 2008
PAGE: 130 of 137
While infrastructure expenditure has steadily improved it is critical that planning and delivery of
infrastructure is better aligned. This synchronization will ensure optimal spending. It remains
imperative for capital projects to be accompanied by comprehensive maintenance plans, and the
associated risks and costs reduced through effective planning and monitoring. In this regard, the
Committee notes progress with the Infrastructure Delivery Implementation Programme (IDIP) and
looks forward to a report on the proposed integrated infrastructure plan.
The skills deficit remains a serious and binding constraint. The budget reflects a renewed emphasis on
skills development – R1.4 billion is earmarked for the Further Education and Training (FET) colleges
and spending by the Sector Education and Training Authorities (SETA’s) is projected to rise from
R6.8billion in 2007/08 to R9.1 billion by 2010/11. For these resources to be of maximum benefit,
however, the Committee is convinced that there should be closer alignment between the programmes
and curricula of these institutions and a higher employment rate for graduates. In executing its
oversight function the Committee will call on government to report quarterly on progress with the
implementation of the findings of the recent SETA review.
Social Services and Poverty Reduction
The social services continue to receive the largest share of revenue – 59.2 percent of total expenditure
for the budget period, growing to 60.5 percent over the MTEF.
Social assistance and welfare grants are important instruments in addressing poverty. The budget and
MTEF provide for the steady expansion of grants with an additional R12 billion for inflation-related
increases and the extension of the Child Support Grant and Old Age Pension. These additions result in
the social welfare sector growing by an annual average rate of 10.8 percent over the medium term. The
14 MARCH 2008
PAGE: 131 of 137
expansion of the social net is welcome however grants should be effectively administered to ensure
that funds reach the intended recipients within a reasonable time.
In terms of the ongoing reforms to the social security system, the Committee has identified a number
of proposals that will have far-reaching budgeting implications for the sector. The Committee has also
noted the suggestion to attach conditions to certain grants – such as linking the Child Support Grant to
school attendance – however such conditions could exclude the marginalized unless government is
able to simultaneously guarantee access to basic services.
The Committee intends pursuing its
oversight in this sector.
Education is recognized as pivotal to sustained growth and reducing inequality and as the foundation
of a developmental state. The budget and MTEF proposals provide continued financial support for the
sector – which grows at an average annual rate of 11.5 percent between 2007/08 and 2010/11. As
highlighted in the 2007 MTBPS report, however, the sector has experienced a number of
organizational and budgeting challenges, which have, at times, led to serious disjuncture between
resources and outcomes.
The health sector is facing a number of acute challenges including the lack of personnel and
inadequate infrastructure and capital equipment, which has compromised the provision of basic health
services. The Committee notes the continued growth in the sector, with expenditure set to rise by an
average annual rate of 10.6 percent. While these resources are necessary, planning and co-ordination
in the sector as well as the capacity of the relevant departments to spend effectively remains a concern.
The projected under-expenditure by a number of provinces on hospital revitalization for 2007/08 is an
example.
14 MARCH 2008
PAGE: 132 of 137
In this regard, the implementation of concurrent functions and the apparent failure by certain provinces
to support national priorities remains an extremely serious matter that should be urgently rectified. The
Committee is also of the view that the performance of the social services, especially in the departments
of education and health, is relatively difficult to quantify. Despite the increased allocations to
education and health, the Committee is of the opinion that these are not commensurate qualitatively
with the outcomes.
Justice and Protection Services
Crime remains at unacceptable levels, a situation which compromises both citizen security and
government’s social and economic initiatives. To reduce crime to target levels, government has
undertaken to revamp the criminal justice system as an apex priority.
The significant allocation of resources, over the MTEF period, to the Justice and Protection cluster, is
not effectively aligned with the stated outputs and outcomes. It is imperative that an improvement in
service delivery is linked to planned expenditure. More robust measures should be implemented in the
financial management and the reporting systems of the cluster. The Committee expects the relevant
institutions and departments to finalize institutional arrangements and recruitment processes within the
shortest possible time.
The Committee appreciates the urgent need for new correctional facilities but is not convinced that the
department has the capacity to spend additional funds effectively in this financial year, although the
bulk of additional funds are earmarked for 2010/11. Construction projects are typically high-risk in
nature – highlighted by the delays in the finalization of the Kimberley Correctional Centre. The
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PAGE: 133 of 137
Department of Correctional Services (DCS) should satisfy Parliament that it has taken account of all
risks and operational implications relating to these projects.
4.
CONCLUDING REMARKS AND RECOMMENDATIONS
The allocations proposed in the budget and MTEF are broadly in line with the policy priorities of
government. However, the Joint Budget Committee has identified various challenges and has
reservations about the ability of certain sectors and departments to absorb additional funds and spend
their budgets with maximum effectiveness and efficiency. Having scrutinized the bills before it,
participated in the budget hearings and subsequently deliberated, the Committee has made following
recommendations.
1.
Based on the directive in the State of the Nation Address of “Business Unusual”, departments
must ensure that they spend their budgets in line with national priorities and their strategic
plans, and avoid the current ad hoc utilization of virements.
2.
National Departments should report to Parliament on spending, including transfers to provinces
and public entities in meeting national priorities. Such reports should routinely include nonfinancial, performance information.
3.
Departments should accelerate the establishment of sound administrative and financial systems
to create an environment for effective and efficient financial management. The development of
realistic key performance indicators should be included in this exercise.
14 MARCH 2008
4.
PAGE: 134 of 137
To effectively reduce the current unacceptably high vacancy rates, affected departments should
establish specific timeframes and furnish the JBC, on quarterly basis, with the progress in the
filling of funded vacant posts. Notwithstanding the vacancy rate, effective and efficient service
delivery goes beyond the deployment of funds and personnel and requires competency and
commitment. The Committee therefore calls for a recommitment to the Batho Pele principles by
all public servants.
Lastly, the Co-Chairperson would like to thank all those involved in the budget hearings and in the
compilation of the report.
Report to be considered.
FRIDAY, 14 MARCH 2008
ANNOUNCEMENTS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
The Speaker and the Chairperson
1.
Introduction of Bills
(1)
The Minister for Social Development
14 MARCH 2008
(a)
PAGE: 135 of 137
Prevention of and Treatment for Substance Abuse Bill [B 12 – 2008] (National
Assembly – proposed sec 76) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior notice of its
introduction published in Government Gazette No 30814 of 25 February 2008.]
Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on Social Development of the
National Assembly, as well as referral to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for
classification in terms of Joint Rule 160.
In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of the Bill may be
submitted to the JTM within three parliamentary working days.
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
1.
The Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry
(1)
Rand Water Board’s Proposed increase in Water Tariffs for 2008-09, tabled in terms of
section 42 of the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Act, 2003 (Act No
56 of 2003).
(2)
Sedibeng Water Board’s Proposed increase in Water Tariffs for 2008-09, tabled in terms of
section 42 of the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Act, 2003 (Act No
56 of 2003).
14 MARCH 2008
(3)
PAGE: 136 of 137
Magalies Water Board’s Proposed increase in Water Tariffs for 2008-09, tabled in terms of
section 42 of the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Act, 2003 (Act No
56 of 2003).
(4)
Pelladrift Water Board’s Proposed increase in Water Tariffs for 2008-09, tabled in terms of
section 42 of the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Act, 2003 (Act No
56 of 2003).
(5)
Bushbuckridge Water Board’s Proposed increase in Water Tariffs for 2008-09, tabled in
terms of section 42 of the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Act, 2003
(Act No 56 of 2003).
(6)
Amatola Water Board’s Proposed increase in Water Tariffs for 2008-09, tabled in terms of
section 42 of the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Act, 2003 (Act No
56 of 2003).
(7)
Umgeni Water Board’s Proposed increase in Water Tariffs for 2008-09, tabled in terms of
section 42 of the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Act, 2003 (Act No
56 of 2003).
(8)
Mhlathuze Water Board’s Proposed increase in Water Tariffs for 2008-09, tabled in terms
of section 42 of the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Act, 2003 (Act
No 56 of 2003).
14 MARCH 2008
(9)
PAGE: 137 of 137
Namakwa Water Board’s Proposed increase in Water Tariffs for 2008-09, tabled in terms
of section 42 of the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Act, 2003 (Act
No 56 of 2003).
(10)
Overberg Water Board’s Proposed increase in Water Tariffs for 2008-09, tabled in terms of
section 42 of the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Act, 2003 (Act No
56 of 2003).
(11)
Botshelo Water Board’s Proposed increase in Water Tariffs for 2008-09, tabled in terms of
section 42 of the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Act, 2003 (Act No
56 of 2003).
(12)
Lepelle Northern Water Board’s Proposed increase in Water Tariffs for 2008-09, tabled in
terms of section 42 of the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Act, 2003
(Act No 56 of 2003).
(13)
Bloem Water Board’s Proposed increase in Water Tariffs for 2008-09, tabled in terms of
section 42 of the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Act, 2003 (Act No
56 of 2003).
(14)
Albany Coast Water Board’s Proposed increase in Water Tariffs for 2008-09, tabled in
terms of section 42 of the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Act, 2003
(Act No 56 of 2003).