LOS ANGELES TRADE-TECHNICAL COLLEGE
PARALEGAL/LEGAL STUDIES ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES
Tuesday, August 18th, 2009 11:15 a.m.-Room K-322
Business-CAOT-CIS Department
Presiding: Karl Gary, Esq.
In Attendance:
Present from Industry:
o Christopher Ellison, Esq., Ellison Law Practice
o Nazissa Parsakar, Esq., Attorney in Private Practice
o Aref Radjaei, Real Estate Broker
o Charles L. Smith, Esq., Attorney in Private Practice
o LaVonne White, Paralegal, Corporation Litigation Assistant
Present from LATTC:
o Inhae Ahn, Counselor
o Karen Amarawansa, J.D., Department Secretary
o Paulette Bailey, Chair-Business-CAOT-CIS
o Lourdes Brent, Counselor
o Honorable James Endman, Comm., L. A. Superior Court-Hourly
o Karl Gary, Esq.-Faculty-Business
o Richard Sherer, Faculty-Business
o Eugene Randelson, Student
o Laura Shack, Student
Agenda:
o Welcome and Introduction of Members ............................. Karl Gary
o Brief Status of Paralegal Courses ...................................... Karl Gary
o Topical Items and Specific Issues………….………..Advisory Members
o Job Skills Requirements…………….……Faculty & Advisory Members
o Advisory Recommendations…………..…Faculty & Advisory Members
o Adjournment………………………..………..Paulette Bailey & Karl Gary
Discussion:
2.
Karl Gary welcomed and introduced each attendee. Individual attendees gave the
group additional information, including, but not limited to the following:
Aref Radjaei, community member, works one-on-one with individual adults from
deprived backgrounds as a counselor and mentor. Charles Smith, Esq., community
member, practices family law, personal injury, and corporate law. Lourdes Brent,
LATTC counselor, has worked at Whittier Law School and Southwestern University
School of Law. Christopher Ellison, Esq., has a private law practice and represents
prominent sports figures in addition to practicing other areas of the law.
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LOS ANGELES TRADE-TECHNICAL COLLEGE
PARALEGAL/LEGAL STUDIES ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES
Tuesday, August 18th, 2009 11:15 a.m.-Room K-322
Business-CAOT-CIS Department
Regarding the two student community members who were present at the meeting, Laura
Stack said that she would like to become a Paralegal. Eugene Randelson said he would
like to understand the law so he can use it to help develop his businesses.
Karl Gary, Esq., presented an overview of the goals and objectives of LATTC to create a
paralegal and legal studies program. The purpose of the paralegal program would be to
qualify individuals to become certified, licensed paralegals. The purpose of the legal
studies program would be to help students gain admission to law schools that accept an
AA degree. Those students would obtain the requisite course units to transfer to law
school after two years of study at LATTC. Mr. Gary is aware of at least four law schools
that will accept a student with an AA degree instead of a bachelor’s degree.
The Paralegal Program must necessarily be ABA (American Bar Association) accredited
in order for individuals to become certified, licensed paralegals. After obtaining a
paralegal certificate from LATTC, students would have to pass a state-wide exam before
obtaining their paralegal license.
Mr. Gary pointed out that we have a number of law firms and courthouses in the vicinity
of LATTC, which make our college an ideal place to develop a paralegal program. Also,
Los Angeles County hires more paralegals than anywhere in the country.
In addition, Mr. Gary would like to reach out to underprivileged students, who constitute
a high percentage of the LATTC student body, inviting them to join the paralegal
program as a career path. He is particularly interested in reaching out to those who may
have had their own legal problems with experience on “the wrong side of the law.”
Mr. Gary would like to develop a “cohort program” in which the mindset among the
paralegal studies students would be that “we count on you to pull each other through.”
Lourdes Brent, LATTC counselor, added that low-income students could also be directed
to partner with the EOPS program for additional support services already in place. Ms.
Bailey stated that our goal is to have the program up and running in the year 2010. The
budget for the paralegal and legal studies program would come from Private Industry,
Legal Grant Writing and VTEA funds in order for the program to be sustainable.
It was asked whether the law and paralegal classes we currently offer are transferrable to
ABA-approved programs. Ms. Bailey said that we will make it possible to grandfather in
the current course offerings in law and paralegal so that courses that students have
already taken will be ABA-approved retroactively. This means that a student will be able
to transfer courses already taken to a paralegal program that is ABA-approved. For
instance, LAW 18, Wills and Trusts, currently offered at LATTC, will be transferable to
other community colleges which have paralegal programs.
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LOS ANGELES TRADE-TECHNICAL COLLEGE
PARALEGAL/LEGAL STUDIES ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES
Tuesday, August 18th, 2009 11:15 a.m.-Room K-322
Business-CAOT-CIS Department
Our paralegal program will be a degree program in which graduation Plan B would
apply. This means that there would be 60 units required for the AA degree, with 36 of
those 60 units in the major, according to Lourdes Brent, LATTC counselor.
Ms. Bailey stated that there will be a scheduling component to the programs. Some
classes will go one semester, and some may be eight-week sessions.
Mr. Gary mentioned that we will want to avoid “grade inflation.” It may be necessary for
some students to repeat classes in order to succeed in the paralegal program.
Mr. Gary stated that the ABA requires that students pass English 103 as part of the
paralegal curriculum. To be admitted for study into the program, however, it may only be
necessary to take and pass English 28 as a prerequisite. If English 101 is required to be
passed as a prerequisite for admission into the program, we may be leaving out a lot of
students who might be unable to pass English 101 at the outset. In any event, however, in
order to pass the program, English 103 will be required in order to meet the current ABA
requirements.
LACC may only require Eng. 101 in order to graduate from their paralegal studies
program. According to Ms. Parsakar, who teaches in the paralegal program at WLAC,
English 103 is required there in order to graduate.
LATTC will design the program so that English 103 and perhaps English 101 could be
taken concurrently with other courses. Mr. Gary mentioned that it may be better to have
co-requisites rather than prerequisites to English 103.
Ms. Ahn raised the possibility of developing a paralegal certificate of achievement in
addition to a Paralegal AA program. It was the consensus of those present that there
should definitely be such a certificate of achievement option as well.
Judge Endman mentioned the importance of offering students the option to complete the
paralegal program in longer than two years. This is because many of our students work
full-time and may not be able to carry a full-time course load.
It was discussed that there will be a recommended sequence of required courses to take,
with the more difficult courses, such as legal research and writing coming later. This was
Mr. Ellison’s suggestion. For instance, legal research would be offered in the 2 nd year, 1st
semester.
Ms. Bailey mentioned that the paralegal and legal studies program may want to partner
with the LATTC Writing Center to assist students with their writing skills. Students will
also need to be well versed in legal research and legal analysis skills. Some students will
also be interested in corporate law. Instructors will have to know how to teach students to
brief the cases that they read as part of their homework assignments.
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LOS ANGELES TRADE-TECHNICAL COLLEGE
PARALEGAL/LEGAL STUDIES ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES
Tuesday, August 18th, 2009 11:15 a.m.-Room K-322
Business-CAOT-CIS Department
Mr. Sherer offered the idea of creating a preparatory semester in which students could
fulfill the bulk of their math and English requirements. He stated that most of our
students come in at the level of Math 105. He said that if the students don’t take math and
English classes at the outset, it may be difficult for them to successfully complete the
program later. If they can complete most of the math and English classes at the outset,
then they are “on their way.”
This preparatory semester could be optional for those that desire it. There’s also a
possibility that it might be only five weeks long. Higher math could be in 5-week
modules: 101, 105, 112, 115 sequential math classes.
It was discussed that starting in Fall 2009, Math 125 is another required course for
graduation for all degree students at LATTC.
Karl Gary mentioned that he would like to offer a “mock trial” component to the
paralegal and legal studies programs in which students would role-play the parts of the
various parties involved in trials.
3.
Regarding the job market, Mr. Gary stated that the market in Los Angeles is a
small, growing market. It was discussed that paralegals by law may not give legal advice
to anyone. Nor may they appear in court. It is possible that in the future, paralegals may
become legally allowed to make routine court appearances for attorneys where no oral
argument is anticipated, such as for status conferences or requests for continuances.
However, this is a controversial area; because one can never anticipate what a judge may
ask that might lead to a need for oral argument.
Judge Endman mentioned that private paralegals may become the wave of the future,
because they can charge much less for such routine tasks as drafting declarations and
other legal documents than attorneys would charge. However, private paralegals, who
currently charge from $60-$75.00 per hour, still always have to work under the
supervision of a licensed California attorney in order to avoid the unauthorized practice
of law, according to litigation assistant Lavonne White.
4.
Regarding job skill requirements, Charles Smith, Esq., stated that if he were
hiring a law clerk, he would be looking for students proficient in research and writing.
It was stated that an increasing number of law firms are requiring students to have passed
the paralegal licensing exam, which is a state exam. However, Chris Ellison, Esq., whose
law firm employs two paralegals who are former students of his, feels that the paralegal
licensing exam is so difficult that many law firms, including his, waive this requirement.
It was mentioned that currently, however, at least 20% of those law firms that hire
paralegals are requiring that those paralegals be state licensed.
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LOS ANGELES TRADE-TECHNICAL COLLEGE
PARALEGAL/LEGAL STUDIES ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES
Tuesday, August 18th, 2009 11:15 a.m.-Room K-322
Business-CAOT-CIS Department
Attorney Chris Ellison mentioned that he always wants to see a potential paralegal’s
writing before he hires anyone. This is because he never would hire someone whose
writing he would have to rewrite. He would want to see one or more writing samples. The
person would have to have excellent writing skills. That’s why he hired his former
students, whose work he was already familiar with. He said that his paralegals wear many
hats, including that of secretary. He stressed that everything his paralegals do is under his
supervision, however. For instance, he would never submit work prepared by them
without having reviewed and corrected it first. They generally write up factual
statements; they do not prepare legal arguments. He promoted his paralegals to earn
$18.00 per hour after they obtained their paralegal certificates. They have not taken the
paralegal licensing exam; nor will he require them to.
There was also a discussion of word-processing courses that paralegals must take, as
paralegals are expected to have such skills. It was also discussed that for those paralegals
with a private practice, it may be required that they be state licensed as well as being
required to work under the supervision of an attorney.
5.
External Advisory Board recommendations and additional discussion. The
distinction between having a certificate from a certified paralegal program and being a
certified (licensed) paralegal who has passed a state exam was discussed. It was also
mentioned that someone who takes the paralegal state licensing exam in California must
have completed a certified paralegal program first.
Lavonne White mentioned that there is a paralegal association called the LAPA (Los
Angeles Paralegal Association) that paralegal students can belong to. This organization
helps people to study for the paralegal state licensing exam, among other services.
Membership in such an organization is also helpful for networking purposes.
Continuing legal education classes are required for certified (licensed) paralegals. Some
law firms also require such classes for their litigation associates, as does the firm that
employs Lavonne White, whether or not they are licensed paralegals. Mentoring
programs were also discussed.
Mr. Gary mentioned that active California attorneys are required by law to take
continuing legal education classes: 25 hours per every three-year period.
Regarding the requirements for a law library, it was discussed that in order for LATTC to
pass ABA standards, it is necessary for the LATTC library to have an area in the library
set aside for paralegal students. There needs to be computers in this area programmed to
enable students to conduct legal research; other legal books and materials may need to be
available as well. It is not necessary that the paralegal studies area be housed in a separate
room, however. Nor is it necessary to have a law librarian in attendance.
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LOS ANGELES TRADE-TECHNICAL COLLEGE
PARALEGAL/LEGAL STUDIES ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEETING MINUTES
Tuesday, August 18th, 2009 11:15 a.m.-Room K-322
Business-CAOT-CIS Department
Usually the instructors teaching the law and paralegal courses will be responsible for
showing their students how to perform legal research electronically. The teachers should
understand both how to use such electronic programs and how to teach students to use
them. Lavonne White stated that LEXIS/NEXIS, an electronic legal research program,
has tutorials that are instructive in how to use that program.
Although the legal studies program will be geared to potential law students while the
paralegal program geared to potential paralegals, Attorney Ellison thought that Paralegal
10 and 11 should be required for the legal studies program as well.
Although in general, legal studies students would not have to take paralegal courses,
there may be instances in which the same courses will be offered for each of the two
programs, and these courses will be cross-referenced in the LATTC Course Catalog.
Many, if not all of our current paralegal course offerings are already Cal State University
(CSU) transferrable, such as Paralegal 1, 12, and 13. Law 3 is often cross-referenced to
GOV 1.
Mr. Gary said that our external paralegal advisory board will meet once a year. Our next
meeting will be in August, and members will be notified one month prior to that meeting.
The meeting adjourned at 1:00 p.m.
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