400 Commonwealth Drive, Warrendale, PA 15096-0001 U.S.A.
Phone: 724-776-4841; Fax: 724-776-0243
These minutes are for the use of the committee. Unless authorized by SAE, they should not be published or
further circulated. REQUESTS FOR CORRECTIONS SHOULD BE MAILED TO SAE HEADQUARTERS WITHIN
THREE WEEKS AFTER RECEIPT.
UNCOMFIRMED MINUTES
RMC Meeting Minutes (Public)
Tuesday / Wednesday / Thursday 01/25 – 01/27, 2005
Holiday Inn Select Hotel
4335 CHANTILLY SHOPPING CENTER
CHANTILLY, VIRGINIA
(703) 815-6060
Attendees:
Registrar Management Committee Meeting Attendees
Tuesday Jan 25 2005
Name
Company
**Mike Roberts (Chair)
**Luiz Brandao
**Vince May
**Mike Gallagher
**Mike Hayward
**Guy Johansen
**Rich Vinton
**David Stevens
**Rick Downs
**Will Tate
Lori Scheid
Hollie Last
Boeing
Embraer
Honeywell
Lockheed
Northrop-Grumman
UTC
Raytheon
Rolls Royce NA
Textron
Vought
ANAB
SCC
(** Voting Members)
Page 1 of 14
OEM
OEM
OEM
OEM
OEM
OEM
OEM
OEM
OEM
OEM
AB
AB
Reg Blake
Carl Blazik
Ed Bayne
Tim Lee
Jay Myers
Sidney Vianna
Jeff Carr
Michael Harrell
Pete Kucan
Fred Becker
Buck Crenshaw
Bob Cook
IAAR / BSI America
IAAR / CRS
Boeing
Boeing
SAE
DNV
NQA
UL
PRI Registrars
Intertek
JPL
FAA
CRB
CRB
OEM
OEM
SAE
CRB
CRB
CRB
CRB
CRB
Guest
Guest
Attendees:
Registrar Management Committee Meeting Attendees
Wednesday Jan 26, 2005
Name
Company
**Mike Roberts (Chair)
**Luiz Brandao
**Vince May
**Mike Gallagher
**Mike Hayward
**Guy Johansen
**Rich Vinton
**David Stevens
**Rick Downs
**Will Tate
Lori Scheid
Hollie Last
Cindy Miller
Reg Blake
Carl Blazik
Ed Bayne
Tim Lee
Jay Myers
Sidney Vianna
Jeff Carr
Michael Harrell
Pete Kucan
Fred Becker
Boeing
Embraer
Honeywell
Lockheed
Northrop-Grumman
UTC
Raytheon
Rolls Royce NA
Textron
Vought
ANAB
SCC
RABQSA
IAAR / BSI America
IAAR / CRS
Boeing
Boeing
SAE
DNV
NQA
UL
PRI Registrars
Intertek
(** Voting Members)
Page 2 of 14
OEM
OEM
OEM
OEM
OEM
OEM
OEM
OEM
OEM
OEM
AB
AB
AB
CRB
CRB
OEM
OEM
SAE
CRB
CRB
CRB
CRB
CRB
Attendees:
Registrar Management Committee Meeting Attendees
Thursday Jan 27, 2005
Name
Company
**Mike Roberts (Chair)
**Luiz Brandao
**Vince May
**Mike Gallagher
**Mike Hayward
**Guy Johansen
**Rich Vinton
**David Stevens
**Rick Downs
**Will Tate
Lori Scheid
Hollie Last
Cindy Miller
Reg Blake
Carl Blazik
Ed Bayne
Tim Lee
Jay Myers
Sidney Vianna
Jeff Carr
Michael Harrell
Pete Kucan
Fred Becker
Brian Hughitt
Buck Crenshaw
Bob Cook
Boeing
Embraer
Honeywell
Lockheed
Northrop-Grumman
UTC
Raytheon
Rolls Royce NA
Textron
Vought
ANAB
SCC
RABQSA
IAAR / BSI America
IAAR / CRS
Boeing
Boeing
SAE
DNV
NQA
UL
PRI Registrars
Intertek
NASA
JPL
FAA
(** Voting Members)
OEM
OEM
OEM
OEM
OEM
OEM
OEM
OEM
OEM
OEM
AB
AB
AB
CRB
CRB
OEM
OEM
SAE
CRB
CRB
CRB
CRB
CRB
Guest
Guest
Guest
Note: presentations are posted on the RMC web site in the folder
under minutes associated to this meeting. Where reference is
made in the minutes to See Presentation #x, open the file on
the web with the corresponding number.
Page 3 of 14
Meeting Agenda
See Presentation #1
In the minutes below:
 Discussions are documented in Blue
 Actions are documented in Red
 Decisions are documented in Violet
 Discussion Example
1.
Action Example
1.
Decision Example
Meeting Minutes
1.)
Welcome, Introductions, and Overview
Mike Roberts
 Mike Roberts explained how the RMC works and reviewed
IAQG/AAQG meetings
See Presentation #2
2.
Action raised to plan for IAQG OT review of AAQG RMC
scheme during the Montreal October 2005 meeting. Need
to put a plan together beginning with June Savannah
meeting. Concern the Brazil September meeting may not
be heavily attended so we need to work this earlier.
 Mike Roberts provided review of IAQG OT and RMC structure
See Presentations #3 & #4
2.)
Membership
2.
3.)
Mike requested an OEM step up to be in succession for
taking on the RMC Chair role and take over beginning 012006
RMC Roster Categories
3.
Mike Roberts
Mike Roberts
Create RMC “103” writing on membership that clearly
defines roles & responsibilities (A.K.A. member / liaison /
mailing / consultant -- Mike Roberts to take this action on.
Does this link the RMC Web activity??
Page 4 of 14
3.
RMC Voting Members are the 11 OEMs
RMC Members are the current 11 OEMs, ABs, IAAR reps,
and At Large Members
RMC Liaison are active participants
RMC Members and Liaison have access to the RMC private
web site
 Mike lead clean up of the SAE AAQG RMC “roster”
4.)
Voting
4.
5.)
RMC re-affirms no change to existing appendix B, clause
B4 of AIR5359
Incorporation
4.
6.)
Mike Roberts
Jay Myers
RMC Voting members will need to sign off the
incorporation papers once SAE has them ready
IAQG/AAQG Documentation Status
Mike Roberts/Ed Bayne
See Presentation #5
5.
7.)
Action for Colin Clarke to present AIR 5493
implementation plan during Fort Worth meeting. (AAQG
will release as revision to 5493)
RMC Participation
Ed Bayne
 Updated the RMC participation on activities
See Presentation #6
8.)
Documentation Team
Vince May
6.
AAQG documents being released are not consistent with
the SAE Technical Style Manual - Who is responsible to
ensure the documents meet the standard?? - Mike Roberts
to take to the AAQG LT for guidance as SAE may be in
position to hire an editor to perform function
7.
Action for documentation team to review and provide
recommendation at Forth Worth March meeting for RMC
101, 104, 105
Page 5 of 14
8.
9.)
Mike Roberts to coordinate OASIS implementation on
existing data for scoring change with 9101C team &
OASIS Team
Process Team
Reg Blake
See Presentation #7
9.
Process Team to provide update in March AAQG meeting
on alignment to AS9104
10. Vince May, Reg Blake, Colin Clarke, and Tim Lee to put
time line (implementation plan) on how the process
mapping ties to documentation ties to surveillance for Fort
Worth meeting
10.) Surveillance Team
Tim Lee
See Presentation #8
11. Buck Crenshaw, JPL & Lori Scheid to provide Tim Lee their
respective nondisclosure agreement form for possible
modification / plagiarizing for common RMC form.
12. Mike Roberts to check with Julio Perez on Oversight
Standard Team team make up guidelines for IAQG
surveillance (CRBs included??)
13. Tim Lee to work up proposed answer to: Should an AAQG
Member not be able support the schedule and they cannot
find a replacement, the action to be taken is_____
[provide to RMC in Forth Worth]
5.
To the extent possible, we expect AAQG Member
participation in follow up to cancelled or failed audits
11.) ANAB Report
Lori Scheid
See Presentation #9
12.) IAF Report
Lori Scheid
See Presentation #10
13.) SCC Report
Hollie Last
See Presentation #11
14.) IAAR Report
Page 6 of 14
Reg Blake
See Presentation #12
15.) OASIS
Jay Myers
 Jay provided live demo of OASIS enhancements, including the
ability to turn on or off tier 2 data
 New enhancements in the works include a link for recent
changes (auditors / accreditations, etc) certificate image
download and certified supplier excel spreadsheet download
14. Mike Roberts to review with IAQG OT the possibility of
adding link for CRB transfers in OASIS
16.) AIR 5493 rewrite
Carl Blazik / Hollie Last
See Presentation #13
15. 5493 team to send draft writing(s) to RMC members,
CRBs, and Cindy Miller (RABQSA) for review by March Fort
Worth Meeting
16. Colin Clarke team to address competency in 5493
17.) RABQSA Report
Cindy Miller
See Presentation #14
17. Reg Blake to put together a couple slides for Fort Worth
describing the process change for auditor certification
RABQSA
18.) Auditor Review Team
Rick Downs
See Presentation #15
6.
RMC determined the Auditor sub team will review and
vote on CRB & AB approvals
18. Rick Downs to discuss with Colin Clarke where the RMC
goes with the reviewing of individual course trainers
19. Vince May’s re-write team to ensure AIR 5359 appendix B
& C agree with each
7.
To be compliant with 5359 and still have the auditor sub
team perform the review of ABs, CRBs, and Auditors, the
sub team needs to maintain a population of a simple
majority of voting members.
Page 7 of 14
8.
Will Tate and Vince May to join auditor sub team
9.
ANAB to send CRB and Auditor requests to RMC Auditor
Sub Team only and not full RMC
19.) INMETRO Report
Luiz Brandao
See Presentation #16
20. Luiz Brandao requested Mike Roberts to discuss with Julio
Perez the inclusion of the Brazilian 9100 equivalent,
NBR15100 in OASIS or list the current technically
equivalent writings in OASIS
20.) RMC Website
Rich Vinton
See Presentation #17
10. Keep two years of minutes available on Public site
11. Keep until SAE removes on Private site
21. Rich Vinton to research and update resolution log
22. Mike Roberts to update members list and provide to Rich
Vinton for posting to web
23. Rich Vinton to change RAB to ANAB and also add OASIS
link
24. Rich Vinton to add link called “other links” and remove the
SCC, Oasis, IAQG unique links
25. At the private RMC website
Update the information related to the purpose and
responsibilities of the RMC
26. Meeting Minutes
Identify the PRIVATE Minutes of Meeting’s from the public
ones
27. Photos
Rich Vinton to delete irrelevant/old photos such as
number 4
28. RMC Oversight data
Tim Lee is keeping the data in this section. Tim Lee will
let Rich Vinton know what data needs to be kept and what
Page 8 of 14
data can be discarded, even though Tim believes that the
data is already cleaned.
29. RMC Other documents
Hollie will look for a copy of the SCC approval
30. RMC Action items log
Lori (ANAB) will capture the action items from last two
AAQG minutes of meeting and transpose them on to a log,
to be kept updated, from here on.
31. RMC procedures
Documentation sub team to go over RMC 101, 104 and
105 for review and comments
32. The IAQG Other party Scheme - information
The folder to be renamed to IAQG Oversight team
information
33. Other folders to be created with the material developed by
the sub teams
34. The RMC folder in the AAQG private website shall be
deleted, since the information there is outdated.
35. Mike Roberts to provide info on web stating what is part
of ICOP and what is not part of ICOP
21.) Risk Based Surveillance
Tim Lee
See Presentations #18 & #19
36. RMC Washington DC meeting attendees to review Risk
Tool and send comments to Tim Lee by February 28, 2005.
37. Tim Lee & Lori Scheid to “clean-up” data shown in the
assessment (appendix 7) oversight metric and then
present in March Fort Worth meeting
22.) NASA Supplier Initiative
Brian Hughitt
See Presentations #20 & #21
23.) OASIS Clean-Up
 Double Entries
 Old Entries
Page 9 of 14
Mike Roberts / Jay Myers
 Multi-site issues
38. OEMs and CRBs to review OASIS entries and ensure
accuracy of information
 Discussion on having OASIS generated Certificate numbers
was not supported by the CRB community. Certificate
numbers are assigned by CRBs and are unique to their system
and become a unique identifier linked to the client - CRBs do
not want to change their numbering convention(s)
24.) Surveillance: RMC102 ==> AS91XX
Tim Lee
12. RMC102 to include performance based risk assessment in
draft rev 4
39. Tim Lee to have Rev 4 of RMC102 available for March Fort
Worth Meeting (March 22, 2005)
25.) AIR5493 Issues
Mike/Hollie/Carl/Rick
13. To be renumbered as an AS document (versus the AIR
format)
14. To the greatest extent practical, There [shall or should] be
no duplication between 9104, 5359, 5493 and doc 102
15. RMC endorses the use of competency approach for
auditors
16. RMC recognizes accredited auditor programs, but is not in
position to mandate as a requirement - is a CRB business
decision.
17. RMC recognizes that ABs have the right to subcontract the
auditor approval process. If they do subcontract, the ABs
are responsible for the oversight of the subcontracted
function, subject to oversight by the RMC
18. RMC endorses the addition of AB auditor and AAQG
Member surveillance / oversight representatives
competency requirement to 5493 as a separate section
from CRB auditor competency
19. Auditor oversight belongs in 5359 and not 5493
Page 10 of 14
20. 5493-1 is not to include special section for shared 2nd
party auditors - only define an auditor - 5359 describes
the 2nd party process
21. 9003 will be included in 5493
22. 5493 is to not require a prerequisite that AAs and AEAs
first be lead auditors.
23. Leave the term AA in 5493, ensuring it stays in compliance
with the term “Auditor” as described in 9104
 5493 to take into consideration the e-learning methodology
(Class durations)
24. 5493 to set content requirements for courses - 5359 to set
out the approval process for courses
40. Draft 5493 to be available for March Fort Worth Meeting
(March 22, 2005)
26.) AIR5359 Working Session
Mike Roberts / Vince May
 New Revision Format / What's Included
25. Make 5359 as small as possible, removing any information
documented in 9104, Doc 102, or 5493
26. To only contain the AAQG sector unique requirements,
ultimately becoming the sector unique requirements
document including oversight, competency, 9003, etc
items
27. To be renumbered as an AS document (versus the AIR
format)
28. Writing Team Members
Vince May - Lead
Fred Becker
Buck Crenshaw
Luiz Brandao
Reg Blake
Hollie Last
Boeing individual to be named (Tim Lee to provide Boeing
name)
Will Tate
Page 11 of 14
ANAB member to be named (Lori Scheid to provide ANAB
name)
Cindy Miller
29. Include in the new 5359, a trilogy chart showing the
relationship and major scope, purpose of each in the
trilogy
41. Team to create matrix showing correlation to FAA order
8120.12
30. Include section describing and authorizing use of OASIS
31. Include section that deals with the RMC and includes
legitimizing lower RMC writings
32. Include guidance on AAs (what approval is, who approves
AAs, AA roles etc)
33. Include AS9003
34. Do not include AS9006 (as the AAQG LT has determined
AS9006 would not be part of the ICOP scheme)
35. Add section on Communication, (notification of change,
complaints, escalation, etc)
36. Show AAQG web page link with directions to access RMC
public site in reference document section
42. 5359 re-write to be available for March Fort Worth
Meeting (March 22, 2005)
43. 5359 draft ready for comment by June Savannah meeting
27.) Issues
Mike Roberts
 AS9003
44. Mike Gallagher to garner support and create a request
(presentation) to be made to AAQG / IAQG to raise
AS9003 to an International Harmonized status with
ICOP/OASIS recognition
 Discussed Conflict of Interest -- OEM Auditors - this is
awareness only -- no current action required
 AS9101B vs C issues will require changes to/in OASIS
Page 12 of 14
45. AEA requirements to be defined by Colin Clarke’s Auditor
Review sub team (2 & 15, etc.)
 Software Auditor Requirements
 AA Auditor - future / requirements / listing
 Heads up - AAQG members will be starting to request Data
Mining from RMC - what data and what format??
46. EAQG-OPMT -- Who from the RMC will go as Rep??
Embraer looking at supporting - if so, get with Tim Lee for
protocol and presentation material Luiz provide yes or no
to Mike Roberts by Monday 1/31/2005
 RMC Org and Sub-team Assignments
47. Each sub team leader to provide Mike Roberts their team
rosters by 2/4/2005
 New RMC Assignments
37. Buck Crenshaw named as at-large member to the RMC
38. Ed Bayne named as RMC secretary
39. Rick Downs previously named as IAQG OT secretary
28.) Next RMC Meeting March 22-23, 2005
 The Renaissance Worthington Hotel
200 Main Street
Fort Worth TX 76102
Phone: 817-870-1000
Fax: 817-338-9176
 Tuesday March 22, 2005 8:00-12:00
Sub team meetings
 Tuesday March 22, 2005 1:00-4:30
Main RMC meeting
 Wednesday March 23, 2005 8:00-12:00
Main - RMC Meeting
 Note: The AAQG Main Meeting is Wednesday afternoon and
Thursday morning
29.) Action Item Review
Page 13 of 14
Mike Roberts
 Mike Roberts read the actions (see Red above) and decisions
(see Violet above) that he captured. Membership was asked
if there were any other actions. No additional topics or
actions were discussed.
30.) Closing Remarks to RMC group
31.) Adjourned at 2:50pm.
Page 14 of 14
Mike Roberts