MINUTES OF THE CITY OF FRONTENAC
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION
REGULAR MEETING
TUESDAY, JULY 22, 2014, 7:00 PM
A.
CALL TO ORDER: The regular meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission was called to order at 7:00 p.m. by Chairman Phil Kaplan.
B.
ROLL CALL: The members present were:
Phil Kaplan, Chairman
Nalini Mahadevan
Wilma Schopp
Dr. Nichols and Mr. Richert were absent.
Harry Reineke
Jack Phillipe
Alderperson Mike Schoedel
Also in attendance were Building Commissioner, John Morgan; City Attorney, Edward Sluys;
City Administrator, Bob Shelton; and City Clerk, Leesa Ross.
Also in attendance were Alderpersons Chris Kehr, Margot Martin, Tom O’Brien, and John
O’Connell.
C.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
Mr. Kaplan asked for a motion to approve tonight’s agenda.
Motion to approve the agenda was made by Ms. Schopp, and seconded by Ms. Mahadevan, motion passed unanimously.
D.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Mr. Kaplan asked for a motion to approve the minutes of the June 12, 2014 and June 24, 2014 meetings.
Motion to approve the minutes of June 12, 2014 was made by Mr. Phillipe, and seconded by Mr.
Reineke, motion passed unanimously.
Motion to approve the minutes of June 24, 2014 was made by Ms. Mahadevan, and seconded by
Mr. Phillipe, motion passed unanimously.

E.
PUBLIC FORUM (PRESENTATION OF REMARKS AND/OR PETITIONS)
No comments were made at this time.
F.
CHAIRMAN’S COMMENTS:
Mr. Kaplan made no comments at this time.
G.
COMMENTS BY COMMISSION MEMBERS:
There were no comments by the commission members at this time.
H. ZONING ADMINISTRATOR’S REPORT:
I. NEW BUSINESS :
1.
PZ61214-01: Request approval of a conditional use permit to operate a distilling operation with restaurant and outdoor seating at 10440 German Boulevard. This property is zoned C-Commercial.
Mr. Addison McKenzie, the applicant stated he is the President of Mastermind Vodka and is requesting a conditional use permit for outdoor seating and to run a distillery. He stated he is purchasing the assets of The Nest and would like to open a restaurant bar and also have outdoor seating and run a small distilling operation. He said they make world class vodka. The restaurant will seat 125 people and he hopes to have a small craft distilling operation. The outdoor seating will be on the existing patio, which he hopes to have eight to ten tables. The patio is located in the back of the building. Alderperson Schoedel asked how close are the residential neighbors to the patio and what would his hours of operations be. Mr. Morgan stated up the hill to the south side, there are three or four neighbors which are about 150 feet away. Mr. McKenzie stated he will open at 10:00 a.m. daily and expects people for distillery tours through 8:00 pm and expects heavy traffic on the weekends. He said he would like normal restaurant hours for the bar and restaurant, and stated the distilling operations will take place inside. He stated he would like to be open seven days per week. Alderperson Schoedel stated he is concerned with the noise on the back patio late at night. Mr. McKenzie stated he would like to take advantage of the patio during warm weather. Mr. Reineke suggested some type of patio screening. Mr. Morgan stated the building is in a floodway.
MOTION : A motion was made by Alderperson Schoedel, and it was seconded by Mr.
Phillipe, to approve the request for a conditional use permit to operate a distilling operation with restaurant and outdoor seat at 10440 German Boulevard with the patio closing Sunday through Thursday at 10:00 p.m. and on Fridays and Saturdays at 11:00 p.m. All the
Commission members voted “Aye”. The motion passed, vote passes 6-0.
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Regular Meeting, July 22, 2014
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Mr. Morgan stated there will be a public hearing and a liquor license hearing on this subject at the August 19 th
Board of Alderpersons meeting.
J. OLD BUSINESS:
1. PZ061214-02: Request to rezone the properties known as 10601 Clayton Road,
10635 Clayton Road, 1396 Spoede Road and 1400 Spoede Road from R-1, One
Acre Residence to PDR, Planned Development Residential to allow for the development of a mixed residential development of Villas, Townhomes and
Senior Assisted Living. The properties are currently zoned R-1, One Acre
Residence.
This item was continued at the June 24, 2014 meeting.
Mr. George Stock of Stock & Associates stated he was present along with representatives of
Pulte Development; the Grove of Frontenac, LLC and Chris Witte of St. Andrews.
Mr. Stock presented a brochure of the questions from the June 12 th
and June 24 th
meetings and went over each question and provided answers. The entire response is attached to the minutes.
Alderperson Schoedel asked if the certificate of need was obtained. Mr. Stock stated no, that is a process through the State of Missouri and he said he expects it to be issued on Thursday, July
24 th
. Ms. Mahadevan stated she would like to see some comparable Villas. Mr. Stock stated there are some comparable Pulte villas in the Chicago area, however that project has siding on the residential homes and they are not all brick. Mr. Kaplan stated he has a problem with the density. He stated the proposed density counts for the villa and townhomes would be 7.1 or 7.2 units per acre. He stated the building commissioner requested five units per acre in his report.
He said the comprehensive plan recommended three per acre in the R-1 residential district and six per acre in the R-2 residential district. Mr. Stock showed conceptual drawings of Clayton
Road. He discussed the difference between open space and green space.
Mr. Stock stated there were some discrepancies in the landscaping plan which has been corrected and resubmitted. He stated there will be a retaining wall on the southwest corner of the property near the Culleton property, there is also one near the highway on north side of the property, there will be one around the storm water basin, and stated there is also one near the city’s property.
He stated the property is 11.05 acres and there are not many retaining walls. He also said regarding the water issues, this project will bring a huge improvement to the stormwater runoff and drainage issues, with this project. Mr. Stock showed the grade levels on the property.
Mr. Kaplan stated the city has proposed a reduction in density and said there is an issue with density. He asked can it be changed. He also said if you include the assisted living project, the density would be over 17 units per acre. Mr. Kaplan asked are the villas and townhomes going to be sold and constructed all together. Mr. Stock said they will be constructed as sold. A commission member said the quality of pricing is not enough, the quality of the units are not great enough. Mr. Kaplan asked how they came up with the pricing for the units. Mr. Stock
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Regular Meeting, July 22, 2014
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stated the square footage for both the villas and the townhomes are the same. The townhomes will be in the low $400,000’s and stated they are 100% brick. He said it is hard to compare this development with other developments in the area.
Mr. Kaplan asked for the name of the development. Mr. Stock stated it will be Frontenac Square, which will be built by Pulte Homes of St. Louis LLC. The assisted living will be named The
Grove of Frontenac, and is being developed by The Grove of Frontenac, LLC, Partnership. Mr.
Stock stated they are requesting approval of one overall plan.
Mr. Reineke stated the city’s building commissioner recommended density of five units per acre and feels they need to address the single family residential area. Mr. Stock stated the proposed units will be single family attached villas and singe family attached townhomes. Mr. Reineke stated he quoted the comprehensive plan on density and feels the density is too high. He said there is nine acres being developed, if it were three units per acre, they would have 31, if it were
4 units per acre, they would have 36 and it were five, there would be 45. He stated if it was single family residential, there would be nine single family homes. He stated the current average unit per acre is 7.5.
Alderperson Schoedel stated the ordinance does not specify density that is stated in the comprehensive plan. Mr. Morgan stated that is correct, this is a plan development. He said a planned development is the best approach. He also said the commission came up with three zoning districts, PD-R, planned development residential; PD-MXD, planned development mixed use and PD-C, planned development commercial. Mr. Morgan stated in the West End Park area in R-2, they allow for 7,500 square foot lots, which are approximately six units per acre.
Alderperson Schoedel stated the density of the villas is 5.1 to 5.2 units per acres. The townhomes density is over 7 units per acre and notwithstanding the assisted living facility. He said the challenge faced with being committed to a residential project, you have to deal with density. He also said that these units have nice finishings, landscaping, stormwater water retention. He said the residents said no commercial however he said having commercial typically helps to reduce or pay for those additional costs like nice finishes, traffic improvements, stormwater, etc.helps elevate the cost issues.
He said the issue really is the density of the townhomes.
Mr. Stock stated what is proposed is a high quality townhome. He said the townhomes are on a lower area on the site and are surrounded by the highway and the city facility, with the public works garage, public works salt building and large cell phone towers. He said they are trying to make them sustainable and viable. He said the townhomes will have landscaping, groundskeepers and will be sustained though subdivision indentures.
Mr. Stock stated this is an expensive property and that they will be building the units with all brick. He stated the density has been questioned, however there will be dramatic improvements to the stromwater issues and that all construction is 100% masonry. He said the open space for the villas will be built is 50%, the open space for the townhomes will be 41% and the open space
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Regular Meeting, July 22, 2014
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for the assisted living facility will be 38%. He said this appears dense because this does not exist in Frontenac.
Mr. Stock stated in regards to the assisted living, there will be a grade change. They chose to build the assisted living facility on the northwest portion of the property to decrease the noise and lighting. He said the Culleton and Bray properties will be impacted by this development.
He said they chose to put the quiet side next to the residential property, with no traffic and exterior lights. He said there will be one villa near the Culleton property and two villas near the
Bray property however the area closest to the house will be a cul de sac, which will be used by the mail carrier and Fed Ex delivery drivers. He said the property will be heavily landscaped.
The staff has requested a berm on Clayton Road but Mr. Stock stated they don’t think that is needed, as it will be heavily landscaped.
Ms. Mahadevan brought up the density and referred this property to the Carlyle development in
Creve Coeur. Mr. Stock stated the properties are very different. He stated he believes the problem is the visualization of how it will look. He said this is a very unique piece of property.
Mr. Phillipe stated there are not many Pulte Developments that would have the type of density numbers they are looking at. He said the Creve Coeur property on Mason Road went from 18 units down to 12 units, and that the density went down. He said the density in the Ladue project, which was just approved went from 18 units to 20 units, however these will be single homes. He said he is wrestling with the density issue.
Mr. Kaplan stated the development area by Meadowbrook is a joint venture with Pulte Homes.
Mr. Butts stated yes, they are in a joint venture with another builder. He said these will be attached and detached villas, but he is unsure of the density. Mr. Kaplan asked them to provide the density level for this development.
Ms. Mahadevan asked about the development in Creve Coeur. Someone said this development has 1.4 units per acre, and it is a single family detached homes development which sits on 8.5 acres. He stated it is off Mason Road and is surrounded 100% by residential except to the east, it is surrounded by Andrews Academy.
Mr. Kaplan asked if there were any further comments by the commission members, there were none. Mr. Kaplan stated at this time we will open the floor for questions and comments.
Ms. Goldwasser of Spoede Road said, knowing that Shriners Hospital will be leaving and the land will soon be developed, and it seems like a good place for this type of development. Mr.
Morgan stated the comprehensive plan discussed that property as future retail.
Mr. Bray of Spoede Road asked were the June 12 th
and June 24 th
minutes approved. Alderperson
Schoedel stated yes, they were approved at the beginning of the meeting. Mr. Bray stated this project should be broken into two plans, and said there are not many questions in regards to the assisted living facility. He said there should be a full-plan and this is not well thought out. He said the proposal is for a two-story building that is 50 feet tall. He said when Mr. Brancaglioni
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Regular Meeting, July 22, 2014
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did the PGAV study; he took all four of the residential properties on Spoede Road, and said they were not a good place to live. He said the square included all the properties including the three homes that were not purchased. He said it is not fair to him to use the work of PGAV to verify the density. Mr. Morgan stated the comp plan took a survey of the property and suggested single family residential and it was recommended to be a planned residential overlay. Mr. Bray stated the townhomes are not single family residential and he questions the density of those. He asked the commission not to change the zoning, if you do not like the plan in front of you.
Ms. Culleton of Spode Road stated the townhomes resemble Audubon Park. She stated after they were developed, they became blighted and were torn down; however the back were condos that survived. She said she feels there will be a bunch of single mothers, and a bunch of kids in a tight area, who will cause trouble. Ms. Culleton also stated she sees no sense in Mr. Conroy’s property is included in the school property and stated it is because of the drainage. She went into the history of the property and stated the lake was there and they built up the land, and then moved the property. She said Mr. Conroy’s home is included in the plan because of the drainage problems. She also said this can be done as two developments, but because of the drainage, they need to meet in the low space. She asked could this development be done if they don’t take Mr.
Conroy’s property. She also said the green space next to her swimming pool is unavailable and said it is an easement. She said they will have a house looking down onto her swimming pool.
She again asked about the drainage.
Alderperson Schoedel stated as a city we have committed to residential. He said stormwater is a huge part of it and it should be finished. He also said landscaping should be the best.
Alderperson Schoedel stated density is an issue; there are a lot of economics working for us and against us. He said the property butts up against Spoede Road, Clayton Road and I-64. He said it is a unique property with significant elevation issues. If unsold, the city will have to deal with a former school sitting there. Ms. Culleton stated the Ladue School District should renegotiate the price.
Mr. Watkins of Stonington stated cost and stormwater are issues. He said this does include the cost of the ground. He said it can be negotiated with current density, if project is not tied to this developer.
Mr. Marx of Timberwyck stated he would like to reiterate that the residents of Frontenac want independent housing and residential. He said assisted living is not residential. He said it will be a multi-story, institution that provides three meals and laundry. He said assisted living is an institution not independent residential housing. This is not apples to apples, this is an institution.
Mr. Marx stated this is the not the first time townhomes were proposed in Frontenac. He said the people spoke, we don’t want this, we want single family. This is not what the people of
Frontenac want.
Mr. Hammerman of Frontenac Woods asked what is the cost of units. Mr. Stock stated the townhomes will be 1,500 to 1,800 square feet and they will cost approximately $268 per square foot at a starting price of $408,000. He said the villas will also be $268 per square foot and will be 1,883 to 2,493 square feet at a base price of $504,000.
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Regular Meeting, July 22, 2014
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Someone asked the material of the assisted living facility. Mr. Brinkman stated it will be cedar, it will not be brick. He said this was shown during the June 24 th
presentation.
Mr. Stock stated the Pulte Development will build the units as sold for both the townhomes and the villas. He also stated the landscaping and all infrastructure will be completed then the display units would be constructed then the landscaping would occur. He anticipates the assisted living facility to be complete first. He said first the school building would be removed; then the storm sewers and drainage will be completed. He anticipates the project will be three years to completion.
Mr. Stock asked people to view the Pulte Development on Clayton Road west of 141 near the
Target.
Ms. Mahadevan asked where the construction entrance will be. Mr. Stock stated he anticipates the residential construction entrance will be on Clayton Road and the assisted living construction entrance will be on Spoede Road. He said it is one development with two separate builders. He anticipates it will take twelve months to construct the assisted living facility.
Ms. Marglous of Tregaron Place said the name Frontenac Square is confusing because we have an Old Frontenac Square in another part of time. She said she feels she put her heart into
Frontenac and that Town & Country would not accept this. She said she has lived in Frontenac for ten year. She said Frontenac is cheaping down, with $400,000 townhomes and villas. She said she put a lot of money into her house and that the lots are a fortune. She asked what kind of people we are attracting. She said she believes the villas and the assisted living are appropriate, but not the townhomes. She said she would like a pretty park. She said Shriners will close that will become part of Frontenac, and heard that will be more retail, which belongs there. She asked why Frontenac is so desperate.
Mr. Kaplan stated there is a proposal before us that we can vote on tonight or continue until the
August meeting. Alderperson Schoedel stated the commission needs to tell the developers what additional information we need to address our concerns. they want us to provide, i.e. density, the uncertainty of the project.
He said we should ask for an example of density, and address the suggestion by the city’s building commissioner for five units per acre versus 7.2 units per acre.
He said with the city’s recommendation of five units per acres, could we have higher priced units and fewer residences. He said less density is acceptable , but does it work..
Ms. Schopp stated she questions the quality of the construction and suggested additional elements should be offered. Mr. Morgan stated he has listened to the comments, and understands they want to increase the quality of the construction.
Mr. Stock stated at this time, the developers would like to ask for a continuance. He said he just received and reviewed the staff report this morning, and his comments were only sent to Mr.
Morgan this morning. Alderperson Schoedel stated he is all for continuing this however he said we need to get answers and address the issues.
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Regular Meeting, July 22, 2014
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Ms. Mahadevan stated she is concerned of what the look translates too. She would like to see examples to be better informed, in order to make a decision. She would like to see areas in St.
Louis which are similar with high density levels.
Ms. Culleton stated she would like to know if there will be street parking and suggested parking only on one side of the street. Mr. Morgan stated if the developed is approved, there will be a list of specifics, which will be made part of the plan.
MOTION: A motion was made by Alderperson Schoedel to continue this discussion to the
August 26 meeting, and seconded by Mr. Phillipe. All Commission members voted “Aye”.
The motion passed unanimously, vote passes 6-0.
2.
PZ062414-01: A request from the Board of Alderpersons to review the fencing regulations and make a recommendation related to permitting fences for schools located in the R-1 district.
This issue was tabled at the June 24, 2014 meeting. Mr. Kaplan asked for a motion to remove this item from the table. There was no motion made, the item remained on the table.
K. ANNOUNCEMENT OF NEXT MEETING: Tuesday, August 26, 2014, 7:00 pm.
L. ADJOURNMENT:
MOTION : A motion was made by Alderperson Schoedel, and seconded by Mr. Phillipe, to adjourn the meeting. All Commission members voted “Aye”. The motion passed unanimously, vote passes 6-0.
The meeting adjourned at 9:00 pm.
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Regular Meeting, July 22, 2014
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