Web Resources
My home web page
Engineering Advising
http://faculty.tcc.fl.edu/scma/carrj/
Special advising web page
http://faculty.tcc.fl.edu/scma/carrj/Advising/
• James Carr
SM 290
carrj @ tcc.fl.edu
My advising page links to the FSU “Academic Guide” and tells you
how to get the detailed flow charts of the undergrad academic map
provided by each FAMU-FSU College of Engineering department.
Notes for 2013 advising session
Other universities provide similar resources via an on-line catalog.
Outline
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Spring 2013 Engineering Advising Notes
0. Crucial Advising Information
1. FAMU-FSU Admissions
2. Univ of Florida Admissions
3. Math you need to KNOW
4. Scheduling
5. Other FAMU-FSU Requirements
Crucial Advising Information
You should take pre-calc before or with trig, take trig just
before taking calculus, and take all of your calculus at TCC.
Take MAC2311 with PHY2048 if you earned B or A grades
in both trig and pre-calc on your first attempt.
You should not take MAC 2311 (Calculus I)
at the same time as Physics 2048 if
● you got a C in either trig or pre-calc or
● you had to repeat either trig or pre-calc.
Taking MAC2312 with PHY2048 is usually OK unless you
struggled in MAC2311 because you got a C in trig or pre-calc.
6. STEM-Star Program
• James Carr (carrj @ tcc.fl.edu)
You get a limited number of tries to pass the “core”
pre-engineering courses, which usually include
CHM1045, MAC2311, MAC2312, and PHY2048.
● At the FAMU-FSU College of Engineering, you are
expected to pass those four classes with no more
than one D or F. Not one in each class, ONE. Period.
See section 1 for details. You need to be responsible
and Withdraw if you are at risk of earning a D or F.
● At Florida, you get two tries to pass each “core”
class, but a withdrawal counts as an attempt.
See section 2 for details.
● At USF, you get three attempts at each “core” class.
These notes are not a self-contained lecture. Later sections give more
details about these key items and answer other common questions.
See sections 3 and 4 for more information.
You probably don’t know that most engineering majors
require about 70 credit hours of engineering and math
classes BEYOND the “basics” offered at TCC.
If you transfer with just the two math and science
requirements for an AA, lets say college algebra
and pre-calc plus chemistry and a 2nd science, you
will need about 100 hours of classes after the AA.
In addition, FSU has higher fees once you exceed a certain
number of credits. Those extra 30 credits might get expensive.
TCC may have financial aid to help you pay for
required pre-engineering classes at TCC.
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Plan on taking more than 60 hours at TCC.
Both UF and FAMU-FSU recommend taking ALL
7 or 8 “basic” science and math classes at TCC.
See Section 4 for scheduling suggestions.
You should definitely take ALL of your calculus classes at TCC.
I’ll gladly explain why FSU engineering professors say this.
My opinion is that you can have good instructors if
you need to wait and take physics at FAMU or FSU.
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FAMU-FSU Admissions
You must pass a set of four “core” courses
Most majors
Chemical Eng.
CHM 1045+Lab
CHM 1045+Lab
CHM 1046+Lab
MAC 2311
MAC 2312
PHY2048+Lab
MAC 2311
MAC 2312
with no more than 1 (maybe 2) D or F grades.
You are expected to get at least a C
(higher grades are NOT needed)
on your first attempt at each class.
FAMU-FSU will NOT count a W as an attempt.
Example 1:
A student gets a D in CHM1045 at FSU, transfers to TCC
and takes chemistry again. The student withdraws on the
first attempt, then earns an A in CHM1045 and goes on
to pass calculus and physics on the first try.
ONE failing grade (D or F) in ONE of these classes is also ignored.
This student CAN be admitted to FAMU or FSU.
Two failing grades = provisional admission.
THREE failing grades = will never be admitted.
This student will NOT be admitted by Florida.
This student will LIKELY be admitted to UCF or
USF, provided that the student’s GPA in “core” classes
is acceptable for a particular major at those schools.
They count any grade from any college in any of those 4 courses.
Example 2:
A student gets a D in CHM1045, repeats it and earns an A.
The same student stops attending MAC2311 rather than
withdraw, earning an F, then repeats it and gets a C. This
student passes PHY2048 with a B, but does badly on the
final in MAC2312 and earns a D. The student then gets a B
when repeating MAC2312 and a B in MAC2313.
This student will NEVER be admitted to FAMU or FSU.
This student might be accepted by Florida (if the GPA is
high enough), and should be accepted by USF or UCF
because this student’s “core” GPA will be well over 2.50.
Provisional Admission at FAMU-FSU
Students who accumulate 2 failing grades (D or F)
while trying to meet the “core” requirement must:
Pass (with a specific grade, sometimes a B)
one or more specific challenging engineering
courses on the first attempt.
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Key Advising Tips
Basic Science – most FSU engineering majors
You should W rather than risk a D or F in
easy classes like CHM 1045 or MAC 2311,
but always finish a lab class the first time.
You will not get multiple attempts once you are in the
engineering program, so work like you can’t withdraw.
Engineering classes are harder than these basic classes.
Requirements change, so check your 2-year plan with an
advisor from the FAMU-FSU College of Engineering.
CHM 1045+Lab
CHM 1046+Lab
MAC 2311
MAC 2312
MAC 2313
PHY2048+Lab
PHY2049+Lab
Other Basics
CHM 2210
CHM 2211
ECH 3301
(not MAP2302)
BSC2010
(no Lab)
ECO 2023
Bio-Med Engineering also needs PSY 2012
At UF, you get two tries to earn at least a C in each class.
A withdrawal (W or AW) counts as an “try”.
EVERY attempt is counted at Florida.
That is, UF treats failing grades and W grades
exactly the same way. This means three grades of
W, W, and A in some “core” class will get you into
FAMU or FSU but will not get you into Florida.
They count any attempt at ANY college for the tracking courses.
Although you only need 6 of the 8 “tracking” classes to get in,
they prefer that you complete all 8 of them before you transfer.
CHM 1045+Lab
Civil – extra science
+ STA2122
PHY2048+Lab
PHY2049+Lab
You MAY need some extra classes listed in section 5.
Basic Core
Other Basics
MAC 2311
MAC 2312
MAC 2313
MAP 2302 *
You do NOT need to take a “speech” class.
Chemical Engineering - Basic Science
Basic Core
Computer and Electrical
- COP 3014 equivalent
(COP2220 + COP2221 ?)
Mechanical or Industrial
- see advisor on MAP2302*
* All majors are transitioning to using MAP2302
and MAS3105 instead of MAP3305+3306
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Univ of Florida Admissions
Complete 6 of these 8 with a minimum 2.5 GPA.
MAC 2311
CHM 1045+Lab
MAC 2312
*
MAC 2313
PHY2048+Lab
MAP 2302
PHY2049+Lab
Second science
(usually CHM 1046)
You get only two attempts to earn a C.
Except: Electrical and Computer majors must get
at least a B in every math or physics class.
UF Admissions are now COMPETITIVE
The following is based on info from an advisor at UF Engineering back in
January 2009. Check with UF to find out if this info has changed since then.
UF first checks whether you have passed at least 6 (preferably
all 8) of the “tracking” classes with at least a 2.50 GPA.
All applicants (transfer and internal) are then ranked (by overall
GPA) and the top students are selected until the available seats
are full. A deposit is required to hold your spot in the class.
Also, most majors at UF require computer competency.
This can usually be met with COP2220, but Software majors will
probably need the equivalent of a full, object-oriented C++ class,
which can be met with COP2220 plus COP2221 at TCC. Check with
a transfer advisor at UF to see if COP2800 can replace COP2221.
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Common core “tracking” classes at UF
Basic Core
CHM 1045+Lab
Second Science *
MAC 2311
MAC 2312
MAC 2313
MAP 2302
PHY2048+Lab
PHY2049+Lab
* Second Science
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Math you need to KNOW
Chemical – CHM1046+lab
Civil – CHM1046 (no lab)
Algebra (including logarithms)
Mechanical
– CHM1046 or BSC2010
Trig and Trig identities
Computer and Electrical
– CHM1046 or BSC1005
Calculus 1 and Calculus 2
Nuclear or Industrial
– eighth class not needed
Algebra
Calculus 3 for EE majors
Trigonometry
“Trig has to be math you do without thinking”
You need to be fluent in algebra:
Be able to manipulate symbols in equations and also
follow an example in class where some steps are skipped.
Exponential and Log functions are used a lot.
The technique of “substitution” is used all the time.
Word problems are the only kind we do in physics.
Reading skills are important on exams and in the lab.
Paraphrase of advice from a former student.
Physics uses the definitions and inverses regularly, and
engineering classes can use them many times a day. You
can use a calculator to compute the values in these classes.
Calculus uses the special values, the domain and range
(including inverse functions), and several trig identities.
The identities are critical in Calculus II (MAC2312).
Take MAC2114 immediately before MAC2311.
Just getting a “C” in trig may not be enough!
Students who only manage to earn a C in either trig or pre-calc,
or who had to repeat one of these classes, appear to lack the
fluency and knowledge of algebra and trig needed to pass
calculus or physics, particularly taking both at the same time.
I recommend taking physics and calculus at the same
time, but only if you got at least a B in trig and pre-calc.
Even though taking physics with calculus is considered
a normal load, you should NOT take MAC2311 and
PHY2048 at the same time if you earned a C in either
pre-calc or trig or repeated either class. Improve your
algebra skills in MAC2311 and then take a normal load.
Calculus
It is assumed that you will still know the basics
of both Calc 1 (MAC2311) and Calc 2 (MAC2312)
for several years after you pass those classes.
Basics include such things as the chain rule, integration
with “u” substitution, and the derivatives and integrals of
most of the functions on the keypad of your calculator.
Do not skip a semester!
Take MAC2312 immediately after MAC2311.
Hint: Mechanical engineers have to pass a test on MAC2311,
MAC2312, and PHY2048 as part of “Intro to Mechanical”.
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Chemistry:
4
Scheduling
You need a multi-year plan that includes all 7 or 8 of
the “basic” science classes required for your major
plus the gen-ed classes required for an AA degree.
Future engineering students need to get used to taking
several math and science classes at the same time with
an emphasis on LEARNING it the first time and also
RETAINING it so you still know it NEXT year.
CHM 1045 is taught every semester at many times.
NORMALLY – take CHM1045 at the start of your first year,
at the same time as pre-calc or Calculus I.
BUT – some students prefer to wait and take CHM1045
after physics, say with MAP2302 in the summer,
but must learn SI units on their own for physics.
Plan ahead: Few students do well if taking chemistry,
physics, two labs, and calculus at the same time.
A good plan finishes up with PHY2049 and MAC2313.
Sensible Chem-E students will take organic chemistry at TCC.
You can “dual enroll” and take a class like MAP2302,
but only after you have passed your first full
semester of engineering classes at FAMU or FSU.
Math:
(I’ll gladly tell you why you should take organic at TCC.)
The 2-course sequence is taught fall-spring and spring-summer.
Physics:
MAC 2313 is normally not taught in the summer.
MAP 2302 is normally taught every semester.
Planning: You shouldn’t skip any semesters during your
math sequences, and there are very good
reasons to take ALL four calc classes at TCC.
If you don’t take MAC2140 and MAC2114 at the same time,
take MAC2140 first and then take MAC2114 just before calculus
to help you remember all of the trig you will use in MAC2311.
The next page shows some calc/physics scheduling options.
Remember my warning in Section 3, and save an easy class
like HSC1100 to take along with calculus and physics.
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PHY2048 and PHY2049 are not taught in the summer.
PHY2048 is taught at night in the fall (2049 in spring).
Some options:
Starting in summer:
MAC2311 | MAC2312 | MAC2313 | MAP2302
| PHY2048 | PHY2049 |
Starting in fall:
MAC2311 | MAC2312 | MAP2302 | MAC2313
| or later …
PHY2048 | PHY2049 |
Other options can be found on my web advising pages:
http://faculty.tcc.fl.edu/scma/carrj/Advising/eng.html
Civil and Environmental Engineers
Other FAMU-FSU Requirements
● Extra science plus STA2122 for Civil Engineers
● Changes to the MAP2302 / E-Math requirement
● Total of 18 hours of social science and humanities
These are graduation requirements, not transfer
requirements. They can be done at TCC, but
former students recommend saving some to
fill out your schedule and boost your FSU GPA.
● A specific second science class is now required.
FAMU-FSU will accept the following TCC classes:
GLY 1030 (environmental geology)
BSC 2010 (majors biology)
GLY 2010 (physical geology) + lab
You can also wait and take one of these at FSU:
MET 2700 (general meteorology)
PCB 3043 (general ecology)
OCE 4008 (principles of oceanography)
● Civil engineers can (and should) take MAP2302 at TCC.
● Civil engineers will also need STA2112 (taught at TCC).
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Electrical and Computer Engineers
● Expect to take MAP 2302 (differential eqns) at TCC
and then take MAS 3105 (linear algebra) at FSU.
This sequence is currently allowed as an alternative
to E-math 1 and 2, and most majors are using it as
the math department phases out “E-math” at FSU.
Mechanical Engineers
Discuss the requirements of your specific sub-field of interest
with an advisor at FAMU-FSU, but it is currently expected that
MAP 2302 (diff. eqns) and MAS 3105 (linear algebra) will
soon be the classes taken by all engineering majors at FSU.
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Additional social science or humanities
● You will need a total of 18 hours (one additional class
beyond the AA general education requirement)
Former TCC students recommend saving these extra
classes to take as GPA-boosing “filler” at FSU.
Typically this would be one or more of the following:
AMH 2091 (required of students starting at FAMU)
FSU multi-cultural class (required for graduation)
ECO 2023 (required for some majors)
TCC’s “constitution” requirement (like POS 1041)
NSF STEM-STAR scholarships
Financial Aid
$2500 per year for qualified students
Have a minimum 3.0 GPA.
Show financial need (via FAFSA form).
NSF STEM-STAR scholarships
TCC Foundation scholarships
Must be a full-time student at TCC.
Must be a US Citizen.
Contacts for more information:
Prof. Wilbert Butler - butlerw @ tcc.fl.edu
Prof. Moana Karsteter
Prof. Carol Zimmerman
Web Resources
Engineering Advising
Spring 2013
My home web page
http://faculty.tcc.fl.edu/scma/carrj/
Contact Info
Special advising web page
________________________
http://faculty.tcc.fl.edu/scma/carrj/Advising/
James Carr
Office: SM 290
My advising page links to the FSU “Academic Guide” and tells you
how to get the detailed flow charts of the undergrad academic map
provided by each FAMU-FSU College of Engineering department.
e-mail: carrj @ tcc.fl.edu
http://faculty.tcc.fl.edu/scma/carrj/Engineering/
Other universities provide similar resources via an on-line catalog.
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