The Big Thread
Sorry Heartland critics, these guys are for real!
apollonia | Bakersfield, CA | Posts: 3,137 | Reg.: 3/3/2002 | Posted: 11/22/2003 7:50 PM | Post 0 of 178
There have been arguments and accusations about Heartland Dental [Care] for some time here on [the]
Dentaltown [message boards], and I finally got tired of it. Even though I am in California, and Heartland is…
well… in the heartland, I and four of my staff jumped [on] a plane and we all showed up at Heartland's door
together. And what did we find?
Well, for all of you who are hoping I am going to tell you Heartland is “bad for dentistry” and why they are
“doomed to fail” or “do bad dentistry” or “can't compete with me”, etc. I’m afraid I’m going to have to tell you...
these guys are on the ball.
We arrived early, unannounced, and crashed a staff leadership training seminar. We met and spent a few
hours interviewing Pat Bauer, chief operations officer; Jeff Staser, chief financial officer; and Donna Weir and
Julie Thomas, senior administrators of Heartland Dental Care.
At the seminar we saw dental assistants, office administrators and mangers, from all over the Heartland network, voluntarily taking time away from their practices to learn advanced team management skills. They didn't
know we were coming, and this was not a prepared show. Let me tell you, I saw some sharp people. People I
would like to have working in my office.
There are some differences between their operating budget and my current business plan, but let me tell you
I am seriously considering an adjustment. They are a together team, brothers and sisters...a together team.
Think about it...would you rather earn $100k or $200k? Does it matter you might be producing three times
as much?
drmorris | Chicago, IL | Posts: 1,549 | Reg.: 9/30/2001 | Posted: 11/22/2003 9:37 PM | Post 1 of 178
What practice management system does Heartland follow––PPOs and HMOs, or only FFS? It seems it gives
young, slow, and inexperienced docs limitless CE opportunities and great pay at the same time. Are there any
downsides? Any negatives whatsoever? Or should I just try to survive until I get the opportunity to join a
Heartland office? It’s easy to talk a good game––a little harder to deliver.
hulk | Heartland Dental Care | Posts: 34 | Reg.: 11/8/2003 | Posted: 11/22/2003 9:44 PM | Post 2 and 6 of 178
Thank you Apollonia, that was some very kind words you said about Heartland, maybe your experience will
encourage others who have concerns about Heartland to visit Effingham as well. As Dr. Workman mentioned
before, Heartland is not perfect, but we are always trying to improve ourselves. Like Zig Ziglar says, “we are
doing great! But we will get even better tomorrow!”
Drmorris, with over 125 offices in 7 states, the patient base of each office is pretty much determined by its
location. With that said, no Heartland offices participate in any HMOs. Some offices choose to participate in
providing community services through public aid, some do not, some like to do it on a limited basis, but the
decision has to come from that individual doctor. Heartland is an access to care organization where many offices
provide dental services to patients on public aid.
drmorris | Chicago, IL | Posts: 1,549 | Reg.: 9/30/2001 | Posted: 11/22/2003 10:14 PM | Post 7 of 178
So, Heartland manages to provide public aid and fee-for-service practices under the same corporate umbrella?
That’s quite a leap in patient care and philosophies. I wonder how Heartland decides the mix between each individual practice and dentist. Apparently it does it with no problems whatsoever. Is every Heartland doc completely
happy with his/her experience or is there some crazy dentist out there who is less than amazed with his/her time
spent with Heartland? Inquiring minds want to know.
jmill0 | Franklin, TN | Posts: 77 | Reg.: 8/16/2003 | Posted: 11/22/2003 10:28 PM | Post 8 of 178
Drmorris, I don't believe it's a leap between public aid and FFS if you treat them the same. I don't (or at
least try not to) place any more value on my FFS patients over my PA patients.
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I personally know of a couple Heartland docs who left because it wasn't the place for them. I'm sure it was
for a variety of reasons. Coming out of the military into Heartland, I had to change my lifestyle by going into
private practice. I believe I'm better for it.
drmorris | Chicago, IL | Posts: 1,549 | Reg.: 9/30/2001 | Posted: 11/22/2003 10:37 PM | Post 9 of 178
Jmill0, a noble goal. But you don't think you place more value over a $200 crown versus a $900 one? Do
you use the same lab? There is no magical dental fairyland where all the patients receive the same care regardless of the compensation received. I find it hard to believe Heartland has found a way to provide the same level
of care regardless of the patient’s ability to pay.
jmill0 | Franklin, TN | Posts: 77 | Reg.: 8/16/2003 | Posted: 11/22/2003 10:42 PM | Post 10 of 178
My PA crowns run about $550. My FFS crowns run b/w $400-$750. Can you believe PA pays better than
some FFS here? Now I can only answer for my practice and my situation. Other practices are different and run
by different docs.
drmorris | Chicago, IL | Posts: 1,549 | Reg.: 9/30/2001 | Posted: 11/22/2003 10:49 PM | Post 11 of 178
Jmill0, that’s a damn good fee for a welfare crown. It sounds like you would be doing well with public aid
regardless of Heartland Dental. What additional benefit do you gain by being associated with them?
jmill0 | Franklin, TN | Posts: 77 | Reg.: 8/16/2003 | Posted: 11/22/2003 10:56 PM | Post 14 of 178
Besides the CE:
– A nice practice where I wanted with no investment on my part.
– A team already in place for me when I got there.
– A network of 120+ dentists ready to assist me with any questions I may have.
– A management team in place to ensure I have the tools and training to provide the best care I can.
– A nice salary (that's important too).
– Opportunity to profit from the company doing well. (See the initial Heartland thread about the ESOP
coming soon.)
– Did I mention all the CE?
drmorris | Chicago, IL | Posts: 1,549 | Reg.: 9/30/2001 | Posted: 11/22/2003 11:13 PM | Post 15 of 178
Jmill0, it sounds like you got a sweet deal. So Heartland will be a silent partner in individual dental practices?
What do they get in return?
jmill0 | Franklin, TN | Posts: 77 | Reg.: 8/16/2003 | Posted: 11/22/2003 11:20 PM | Post 16 of 178
The first 16% of the profits in my practice every quarter. Everything after that is split 50/50. Hey, they
have to get a return on their investment don't they? There are start-up practices though that lose money for
several quarters so Heartland takes the hit on the losses for a while as opposed to the doctor.
hulk | Heartland Dental Care | Posts: 34 | Reg.: 11/8/2003 | Posted: 11/23/2003 2:27 PM | Post 17 of 178
Drmorris, in the 5 years I have been with Heartland, I have gone to:
– 7 Dental Boot Kamps with Walter Hailey and Steve Anderson,
– General and advanced oral sedation course with DOCS,
– 2 Invisalign training courses,
– Mini Implants residency,
– EndoMagic with Kit Weathers,
– PAC~live posterior and anterior courses each twice,
– Hornbrook Group advanced functional asthetics,
Continued on page 16
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Continued from page 14
– AACD annual conferences, mid-winter conferences,
Discus Extravaganzas,
– Witzig's ortho course, Kerry Straine consulting, and
others I don't even remember from few years past.
Do you think these are sufficient CE courses as an incentive? Not to mention the productive value they add on to
your practice, 16% might seem like a lot to some, but if you
were
producing
2-3x
more
than
you
normally would have if you were going solo, the net result
will be overwhelmingly positive both in terms of personal
and professional growth.
painlesspaulus | Massillon, OH | Posts: 1,246 |
Reg.: 9/8/2002 | Posted: 11/23/2003 3:17 PM | Post 18 of 178
Hulk, why not get the same benefit from an enlightened
senior dentist and own half the practice from the start?
hulk | Heartland Dental Care | Posts: 34 | Reg.: 11/8/2003 |
Posted: 11/23/2003 4:03 PM | Post 20 of 178
Painlesspaulus, well, I was pretty much in
the same situation like every other new grad,
low self-confidence, huge student debt, uncertain about the future, anxious to find a job
ASAP to start repaying the loans, like Jmill0
mentioned earlier, the benefits of joining
Heartland are:
– A nice practice where I wanted with no investment on my
part. (Having an office all by myself––no additional investment)
– A team already in place for me when I got there.
– A network of 120+ dentists ready to assist me with any questions I may have (camaraderie, MMAs)
– A management team in place to ensure I have the tools and
training to provide the best care I can. (Learned more about
leadership, business and management skills than I thought ever
possible without going through MBA school)
I do admire you though, not many senior dentists are as
enlightened as you are, and a few are probably more interested in having an associate to work the hours such as nights
and weekends to boost production.
Drmorris, 7 Dental Boot Kamps sounds like a lot to some,
but to effectively adopt the systems and to have team buy-in,
it is vital to every Heartland office's success.
painlesspaulus | Massillon, OH | Posts: 1,246 |
Reg.: 9/8/2002 | Posted: 11/23/2003 4:48 PM | Post 21 of 178
Hulk, what do you mean by no investment on your part.
Is Heartland just a rite of passage like an associateship? Do you
get a shot of owning a practice after a period of time?
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jmill0 | Franklin, TN | Posts: 77 | Reg.: 8/16/2003 |
Posted: 11/23/2003 4:56 PM | Post 22 of 178
There is no investment on our part. We all have contracts with Heartland as employees. I may not own the
practice, but I do take ownership.
I'm still paying off a bunch of debt right now, but there are dentists within the company who have $$$
invested in the company. I will never “own” the practice I work in, but I'd rather have a % of a corporation that
is profiting, than the headaches of accounting and profit (or loss!) of my own practice.
hulk | Heartland Dental Care | Posts: 34 | Reg.: 11/8/2003 | Posted: 11/23/2003 5:39 PM | Post 23 of 178
Exactly right! I would rather invest in the corporation, if I choose to, or not, than invest in individual offices.
There are doctors in Heartland who choose to invest in Heartland, and there are doctors in Heartland who choose
not to, there is no obligation whatsoever. But there were many opportunities for doctors to buy shares in the company. We believe those doctors who choose to remain with Heartland long term will ultimately be rewarded if they
choose to invest in the company's growth. And we did grow! If you look at INC magazine, October issue, Heartland
Dental Care is ranked about 377 out of top 500 fastest growing private companies in America. The corporation is
also in the midst of an ESOP transaction right now, hopefully Jmill0 is going to start an ESOP thread soon!
allheart68 | Posts: 1 | Reg.: 11/23/2003 | Posted: 11/23/2003 6:00 PM | Post 24 of 178
Apollonia, I am glad you enjoyed your visit to Heartland. I was one of the team members at the advanced leadership training this past weekend. Joining Heartland has been the best experience ever! The support we receive from
everyone at the home office is wonderful! Our practices thrive and grow daily from all of the training we receive. I'm
glad you made the visit and got to see for yourself that we are for real and don't plan on going anywhere but up!
dentalman | CEO, Heartland Dental Care | Effingham, IL | Posts: 130 | Reg.: 10/13/2003 |
Posted: 11/23/2003 9:29 PM | Post 30 of 178
Apollonia, I hoped you would enjoy the tour. I really do have a difficult time knowing who and what is being
taught each weekend. Actually there is usually something going on all week. Our hope is that eventually dentists who
are not affiliated with Heartland will see the potential benefit of attending our training. I am not sure we are the “best”
at any one particular aspect of dentistry, but we are hoping to be recognized the BEST OVERALL at teaching what
makes a great doctor, team, leader, and successful practice. Drmorris asked, “what does one have to do to find out
more?” Please call us! We have a consulting program. We also do wish to speak to potential affiliation candidates. Most
importantly we want to be perceived as every dental professional’s best alternative to what they may be doing. I am
obviously proud to read what other HDC people are writing, but this forum is most important to doctors who might
still find it hard to believe there actually COULD be a better alternative than solo. Solo can certainly be better for
some in many ways. I am not sure (hence the importance of the discussion) solo is the most lucrative. Many dentists
need to “get out of the box” with their thinking. One of my partners, who by his own admission does little management outside his own office, has now established a net worth of over $4,000,000 in the ten years he has been with
Heartland. WHEN we can get dentists aligned, trained, and motivated, we can change the world. I mentioned this
on another thread. Can you envision a company with the best 100-200 practices of Dentaltown. Think what that
could develop into in 5 more years. Does anybody still believe his or her “equity” in a solo practice would be more
valuable? I am sorry if this comes across too boldly. That is not my intent. I just came back from the EOY meeting.
I heard GREAT stories that gave me chills. The national winner SELLS ORGANIC PRODUCE! What a NOVEL
idea! I might add the company he started in 1980 sold $3 billion worth last year. Other people in other industries are
doing EXTRAORDINARY things every day. Dentists work EXTRAORDINARILY HARD, are very intelligent,
highly skilled and conscientious. I do feel they miss out on some exceptional opportunities because they may not be
even 100% open to an honest discussion of all existing possibilities. We in dentistry deserve great things. Together,
with the support of many, we all will do better for our patients, our teams, and ourselves.
FIND IT ONLINE
The above is a sample of the discussion available on the message boards at www.dentaltown.com. To read it in
its entirety go to: Forum >> Message Boards >> Main >> Practice Management >> Practice Management &
Administrative Forum >> sorry, heartland critics, these guys are for real
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