INSTITUTE OF CEMETERY AND CREMATORIUM
MANAGEMENT
JOINT BRANCH MEETING
SCOTLAND & NORTHERN IRELAND BRANCH
AND THE NORTHERN BRANCH
16 SEPTEMBER 2004 – DUMFRIES
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Welcome
The Chairman, Bob McCulloch opened the meeting by welcoming all delegates
to Dumfries in which was the first of its type in regard to a joint branch meeting.
He then passed to Provost Kenny Cameron who, on behalf of Dumfries and
Galloway Council, welcomed the ICCM to Dumfries and gave a detailed history
of the building, the people of Dumfries, etc. He went on to state that the work
of all attending was an important role within our industry which may never be
fully appreciated.
The Chair then welcomed Geoff Lewis who as Director of Combined Services
for the Council spoke on his involvement with previous Councils in regard to
the cemetery and crematoria provision. He also commented on the need for
future cemetery provision within the area and intimated that Dumfries and
Galloway Council had committed £2.1 million to provide new cemeteries and
extensions to existing ones where applicable, over a several year period.
The Chair thanked both for their contribution to the meeting and wished them
both well for the future.
Bob also congratulated Peter Linsell on his recent appointment and welcomed
him to the meeting.
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Housekeeping
Geoff Lewis of Dumfries and Galloway Council detailed to all members the
exits and facilities available.
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Sederunt
25 members signed the attendance book.
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Apologies
21 apologies were received, as per book.
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Minutes of Last Meeting
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Matters Arising
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Accepted by members in attendance.
Proposed by Allan Gall.
Seconded by Robert Mathison.
There were no matters arising.
Chairman’s Report
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Spoke on the matter of branch resolutions to Tim Morris
(i)
(ii)
(iii)
(iv)
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Membership Criteria
Membership Fees
Director Ballots
Resolutions
Various discussions were undertaken with regard to the membership
criteria set out by the rules and regulations and which now may include
the C.P.D scheme.
Comments ranged from difficulty in obtaining the diploma, to the
possibility of the ICCM Board reviewing the membership criteria, the
Northern Chair Alan Jose stated that it appeared that the Board of
Directors and full time officers may have failed to grasp the importance
of aspirations of members that for one reason or another may not have
the time or inclination to achieve the Diploma, but may wish to use their
experience to serve the institute at a higher level.
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Discussion continued on the issue of job adverts through the ICCM
distribution service. It was pointed out that potential candidates for
positions must either have or be attaining to have the diploma. It was
agreed this was deemed unfair and unethical, particularly towards
members who have many years experience, but have never had or
wanted the opportunity to attain the diploma.
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It was agreed by those attending that a new resolution on membership be
submitted to the new Board of Directors and that the resolution would be
supported by both the Scotland & Northern Ireland branch and the
Northern branch.
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Discussion on the resolution for Membership Fees and the response from
Tim Morris. The response detailed that the Board of Directors will look
at this issue at the next meeting of the Board of Directors.
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Various questions were asked by members with regard to what members
currently receive for their membership fee? How do we attain a
membership of one thousand? Do we offer a year’s free membership to
people who attend COTS courses?
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Based on branch member feedback more members could be tempted to
join if the fees were scaled.
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The branch had also written to the chief executive on the matter of the
recent ballots for Director. The branch was of the feeling that the ballot
was fundamentally flawed as it did not detail a person specification for
each candidate. The branch had received a response from the chief
executive which stated that he agreed with the points made and would
implement this procedure at the next election for directors. However the
chief executive had agreed with the principles of the letter from the
branch but stated that the board of directors had decided to continue with
this year’s ballot. It was also pointed out that there would have appeared
that only 1/3rd of those entitled to vote actually voted.
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Both branches also discussed the issue of ballot papers being received
by members at intervals of up to 3 weeks and also that some members
had reported that they never actually received a ballot paper. Peter
Linsell explained that the chief executive was aware of this and that
there had been problems with the postal system in some areas.
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The Chair congratulated the four successful Directors on their election to
the board and hoped they would continue to take the ICCM forward as in
the manner of previous Directors.
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The final resolution to the board stated that all resolutions submitted by
branches should be made available to the whole of the membership via
various means, ie. e-mail, the Journal, web-site, newsletter, etc.
Members from both branches endorsed this action as it would keep all
members updated on issues within the industry and what other branches
are doing.
As of this date, no response had been received by the Branch Secretary.
Working Groups
The Chair discussed the issue of branch working groups which have taken
place over the last few months, namely:
(a) Transfer of Burial Rights which followed on from a ICCM course at
the COTS Northern site at Auchencruive. Further meetings were
subsequently held again at Auchencruive and also at Peebles.
(b) Discussion by the membership on the issue of the legal aspects of this
with the Chair detailing that he will take on board the matter of
revamping the form.
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(c) It was also agreed that a further meeting is to be held on this matter
with Ron Dunn being invited along to contribute.
(d) Further discussion on the issue detailed that each Council’s legal
officers hold a different view on the legality of forms.
(e) It was also suggested that we look to involve local Funeral Directors in
assisting in the signing of the form. This will also be looked at by the
working group.
(f) Discussions on the issue of dowelling within memorial headstones and
the contents of a letter received from NAMM based on questions
raised by North Lanarkshire Council.
After various comments, etc. Mary Fairbairn an ICCM member, but also
currently National NAMM President, stated that she has raised the issue
with the NAMM Technical Committee and is currently awaiting a reply.
She also spoke on the BRAMM scheme and detailed the difference between
BRAMM and NAMM emphasising that BRAMM is not NAMM run.
Discussions on the issue of dowelling and drilling Terrazzo stones were also
made.
Scottish Law Diploma
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The chair raised the important issue of the diploma module for Scottish
Law, which is not being made available to Scottish members.
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Robert Mathison quite vociferously pointed out that a member of his staff
required this module as part of her aspirations of gaining the diploma,
however it was suggested by the chief executive that she take the English
course and bolt on those parts that relate to Scotland. The members agreed
that this was not acceptable as English Law had no bearing on Scottish
Law with regard to Burials. Both branches agreed that this issue should not
be allowed to continue given the fact that the Scottish branch have
endeavoured to resolve this matter over the last two years.
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Peter Linsell, newly appointed ICCM Technical Services Manager and
attending this branch meeting, stated that this fell into his remit and has
arranged a meeting with the Stratford Business School for 20 September to
look at what changes can be made to the modules. He will raise the issue
of the Scottish Law course.
Conference
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It was stated that at this year’s conference the induction of the new
President and Vice-President would take place. These positions being
filled by David MacColl and Philip Ewing respectively. The Chair wished
both well in their acclaimed position and stated that both were members of
the Scotland and Northern Ireland branch. He also commented that all
trade stands had been fully booked and looked forward to the conference.
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The meeting took a break at 12.15pm for lunch which was provided by
Dumfries and Galloway Council’s Combined Services.
The meeting re-convened at 1.00pm.
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Secretary’s Report
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The Branch Secretary detailed the four executive meetings held since
the last branch meeting and the issues discussed including the working
groups.
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Details also on the current membership level which is currently 10% of
the national membership and still the second largest branch in the
country.
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He also detailed the reasons behind the questionnaire that had been sent
to all branch members and commented on the poor response. Copies of
the report were circulated to members in attendance.
Director’s Report
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Directors, Alan Copeland and David MacColl, spoke on issues raised
at meetings of the Board of Directors and details of the recent visit to
Belfast.
COTS Northern
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Both the Chair and Secretary spoke on the implementation of the
COTS Northern courses which are held at Auchencruive in South
Ayrshire. Three courses have been undertaken so far and all were fully
booked which clearly supports the Scotland and Northern Ireland Branch
and Executive members in their endeavour to bring quality training for
ICCM members to the Northern area of Britain.
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The Chair detailed that the courses and training facility was also for
Northern branch members and hoped they would use the facility in the
near future.
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He invited the Northern Chair and members of the Northern branch to
visit Auchencruive and see for themselves what the facility has to offer.
Memorial Safety
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The Northern Chair, Alan Jose, raised the issue of memorial safety
within cemeteries and the financial implications with this.
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After discussion it was agreed that this item would be on future agendas
of both branches.
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Local Government Act
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He also spoke on the problems that the Local Government Act 2003 (Power to
charge for Discretionary Services) pose to Councils in regard to selling
services, ie. Memorials.
 Discussions from members on this matter and the need to provide this service
to customers. Comments detailed that the provision may prove to be
beneficial.
13 Mercury Emissions
 The issue of Mercury Emissions from cremators was also raised by the
Northern Chair and the issues of abatement, trading, etc. Discussions by
members on the issue of future waste management and the classification,
volumes of waste, etc. were also undertaken by branch members.
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It was also noted that classification of mercury waste may be as Industrial
Waste, however this is still to be ratified by SEPA.
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It was agreed that this issue be placed on future agendas.
14 Recycling Metals from Cremators
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The Northern Chair spoke on the recent letter sent to Councils regarding the
Recycling of Metals from Cremators. These include pins, screws, parts, etc.
which are used in various operations and are left after cremation. It was
detailed that there were various issues and problems regarding this matter as to
what to do with them as it was stated that they could not be interred along with
the cremated remains. Are they returned to the family. How!
A lively discussion on this issue by members asking that as we inter a body
with these parts intact with the body, why they cannot be interred with the
cremated remains. It was agreed that further advice should be sought from the
Home Office/Scottish Executive.
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It was also suggested that the branch may contact the IEHO (Institute of
Environmental health Officers) to discuss this issue.
15 A.O.C.B.
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Chair raised issue of questionnaire and if any member wished to raise any
issue they should contact either himself or the branch secretary.
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Alan Copeland thanked the branch for its support over many years as Branch
Secretary and latterly as a Past President and Board Member.
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Job Coakley praised the branch for holding a joint meeting in what was the
first time this has occurred within the history of the ICCM or its forebearers.
The Chair hoped that future joint meetings may also be held as he felt both
branches took something from the day.
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Alan Jose detailed that Branch Secretaries may meet together at the
conference which hopefully will be an annual event.
Date and Place of Next Meeting
Date to be set during December with Glasgow being the preferred venue.
The meeting closed at 2.00pm with a vote of thanks to both Chairs.
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