TOWNSHIP OF MAHWAH
SPECIAL WORK SESSION MEETING MINUTES
THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 4, 2010
The meeting was called to order at 8:00 PM by Council President DaPuzzo who read the
Open Public Meetings Act Statement as prescribed by law. Notice was advertised in the
Record on October 29, 2010 and faxed to the Suburban News on October 27, 2010
stating this meeting would be held on November 4, 2010 at 8:00PM at the Municipal
Offices, 475 Corporate Drive, Mahwah, New Jersey.
Notice of this meeting is posted on the Municipal Bulletin Board. The minutes of this
meeting shall be available in the Municipal Clerk’s Office.
Salute to the Flag.
Present: Councilmembers Alderisio, DaPuzzo, DiGiulio, Larson, Roth, Spiech and
Williams
Also present were Mayor Richard J. Martel, Township Attorney Andrew Fede, and
Deputy Municipal Clerk Jan Fox.
DaPuzzo stated that this evening's meeting will start off with a presentation and
discussion on a proposed Zoning Ordinance Amendment on Block 26, Lots 2, 10 and 11
which is the Crossroads Property at Route 17 and Route 287.
The Attorney for Crossroads Developers, LLC, James Jaworski emphasized that this is
the sixth time they have come before the Council to discuss the Rezoning Proposal. He
said although this Rezoning Proposal does not require a notice being advertised, several
members of the council asked that notices be in the local newspapers, making the public
aware of this Public Hearing. Mr. Jaworski stated that, in 2007, the Ordinance was on the
verge of being introduced but was stalled due to the third round regulations of the
Council on Affordable Housing. Mr. Jaworski said that last month the Appellate
Division of the Superior Court eliminated the third round regulations so there is no longer
a need for Affordable Housing at this site.
Mr. Jaworski had given the Council a “draft” Ordinance for the 140 acre proposed
Crossroads Town Center site. He explained that the purpose of a CTC Rezoning
Ordinance was to provide for a mixed use and limitations of development to complement
the area. This will limit retail to 600,000 square feet, 200,000 square feet for new offices,
and 100 square feet for a 150 room hotel. Additionally, there will be a Sports area,
Recreation area, Entertainment area and Pedestrian areas built on this site.
Mr. Jaworski addressed the Analysis Report as to what would happen as a result of what
is proposed for the traffic flow. He said a detailed Traffic Impact Study will be presented
1
Township of Mahwah Special Work Session and Public Meeting Minutes of
November 4, 2010
by Mr. Dan Disario. Mr. Jaworski feels that road improvements will probably cost $2.5
million and they have proposed an Ordinance that requires any impact fees be paid by the
Developer. The Ordinance also requires the completion of all traffic mitigation
necessities as required by the New Jersey Department of Transportation. The
Developer’s obligation would be to contribute $6 million for Traffic Impacts plus offsets.
Mr. Jaworski indicated that they have met with Boswell Engineering, Burgis Associates
and the Crossroads Developer Representative, Tony DiGiovanni and have had a
favorable meeting with Chief Batelli.
Roth asked Mr. Jaworski if he would go over the Concept Plan for the Public so they will
have an understanding of the proposed development. Mr. Jaworski said he prepared a
summary and explained concerns that have come up in the past. He stated that
Crossroads Developers, LLC have an obligation and have agreed to do a minimum of six
acres of recreational facilities. Some additional concerns were about removing the
dilapidated bridge in the area. The Developer will be responsible to remove it. The
Developer has also agreed to eliminate the heliport, and they have discussed various
commercial security concerns. Mr. Jaworski further showed charts, giving an overview
of the site and the parking area in question.
Licensed Transportation Engineer Dan Disario from Langer Engineering stated his
credentials and proceeded to give a detailed testimony and overview on the Traffic
Impact Study they prepared basically on the retail issue. He stated he takes a practical
approach to evaluate retail projects he is involved in and has been working on this project
since the mid 1990’s.
Mr. Disario said the Developer for Crossroads feels this will be a great opportunity for a
“public-private partnership” for the improvements within the Township. He does not feel
that Retail Development will create a great impact on new or increased traffic. The
Traffic Engineer displayed a Gravity Model he prepared of the market area. This Gravity
Model had been previously approved by the New Jersey Department of Transportation.
His belief is that the shoppers coming to this site would already be driving through this
area and will not be creating additional traffic. This model shows 70% of the majority of
shoppers would be people drawn from five nearby local Townships. Referring to his
exhibit, he commented that it appears that this development would be more of a Local
Center than a Regional Mall. He further stated that the Township will have the ability and
funding available to implement additional improvements over and above what is required
from the NJDOT.
He then showed an exhibit of Trip Distribution which showed the percentage of people
coming from all four directions. On all of the numerous projections he has done, he has
found the estimate projections on traffic are generally over estimated. He further
explained, people today, in the local areas are all making shopping trips. This does not
2
Township of Mahwah Special Work Session and Public Meeting Minutes of
November 4, 2010
mean that there will be new shopping trips they will just be re-diverting their route and
their existing shopping dollars to this new Retail Center.
Williams said the exhibit shows two different sizes. He asked if the Study Analysis takes
into account the type of retail at the site. The Traffic Engineer answered that the Analysis
is valid for whatever goes in because it is based on “shopping center trip rates”. Mr.
Disario said a large square footage store would be like a Costco. Williams said he
struggles with the fact that if a large store similar to a Costco were to be built at the site it
could draw from a greater area. Mr. Disario answered if there were no other large
wholesale stores in the area this could be true. The Traffic Engineer said he is very aware
and sensitive to the traffic problems on Route 17, especially in the warm months.
Alderisio asked if they will be taking the Market Area population. Mr. DiGiovanni of
Crossroad Developers interjected and added that he has done a Market Study. Mr.
DiGiovanni said if a Market Study was done on a five to seven mile radius, with 100,000
people in the radius, with a household income of $100,000, the Market
Study/Competitive Model and the Gravity Model are in perfect sync. He stated there
would be fewer trips of people travelling to a Wholesale Club versus General Retail.
DiGiulio has concerns on how the traffic flow will be fixed in this area if it is developed.
Mr. DiSario feels the traffic, on a daily basis, will be from the neighboring surrounding
communities. People traveling from Townships farther away will probably be passing
this site going to another mall. DiGiulio asked if people working in the area were in the
Analysis. Mr. DiSario answered that they were at peak time. He said based on his counts
there would be 170 new vehicles travelling to the site and there are approximately 4,100
vehicles travelling Route 17 northbound during peak hours on a Friday in June. This
would be only a 3 or 4% increase.
Mr. DiSario distributed several Exhibits to the Council. He explained that they are
proposing a number of improvements that they believe the NJDOT is going to require as
part of this project if the site is rezoned. He feels the improvements will ensure and
facilitate the ease of traffic flow in and out of the site onto the Route 17 interface and he
explained what improvements would be done to expedite traffic.
On another Exhibit, Mr. Disario explained they are proposing a number of improvements
that they believe the NJDOT is going to require if the site is to be rezoned. He described
how the new access into the site would be and all changes that could be made to
accommodate the traffic flow. He is suggesting closing off Leisure Lane at the
intersection with Orient Boulevard. He feels this closure will eliminate a weaving
section. Other improvements would be to extend the Leisure Lane acceleration distance;
extend an auxiliary lane on Route 17 north of Ramapo Valley Road; install traffic signals
at the Route 17 northbound and southbound ramp intersection with Route 202;
reconfigure of the four way intersection at the base of Stag Hill Road and the Route 17
3
Township of Mahwah Special Work Session and Public Meeting Minutes of
November 4, 2010
southbound exit and installing a traffic signal at the intersection of Mountainside Road
and Orient Boulevard. The changes they plan to make would be great safety
enhancements and should improve the flow of traffic. The recommended traffic
improvements will cost approximately $2.5 million and the fees the Developer would
generate to the Township, on the retail side, would be $6 million.
Williams commented that Boswell Engineering’s letter indicated the estimate of 2.5
million is low. The Township Engineer’s Associate said they had reviewed two estimates
prepared by the Developer’s Engineer. The NJDOT’s requirements to develop the
Crossroads site is an accurate estimate, but the estimate for the anticipated improvements
to resolve the weave situation issue seems very low and is not part of this project.
Spiech had concerns about a traffic light being put on Route 202 as he feels it will back
up traffic even more. The Traffic Engineer said geometric improvements will be looked
at before installing any traffic lights.
Spiech asked what was involved in the Cost Estimate. Mr. Disario explained that they
were asked a few years ago to look at the weaving problem to see what improvements
could be made to improve the problem. It was never the intention, he stated, that this
would be an improvement that would be required as part of any rezoning or development
of the site. Some of the weaving section is across the state line into New York State. A
lone developer does not have jurisdiction to request any improvements on the weaving
area of Route 17 and Route 287 which would involve the NYDOT, NJDOT and possibly
the Federal Government.
Mr. DiSario pointed out that the New Jersey Department of Transportation has reviewed
and agreed to identify the locations that have to be analyzed as part of any submission for
an Access Permit for development of the site. The weaving area was not part of this
study. He further indicated that the Township is guaranteed a certain level of
improvements mandated by the NJDOT, plus additional improvements over and above
what the DOT would require that the Township has the discretion to dictate where the
money should be spent.
Spiech remarked that this did not answer his question. Mr. DiSario said the cost is to
construct the improvements anticipated from the DOT which does not include soft costs.
Spiech said if the cost for improvements exceeds $6M who has to pay the overage. Mr.
Jaworski said the anticipated improvements that are required for the DOT Access Permit
have been reviewed by Boswell Engineering. The Developer would be responsible for
any overage. The Township Engineer’s Associate agreed that the improvements should
be close to $2.5 million.
Roth asked how much the soft costs will be for improvements. The Township Engineer’s
Associate said it should be 10 or 15% for design and construction fees.
4
Township of Mahwah Special Work Session and Public Meeting Minutes of
November 4, 2010
Larson said his recollection was that improvements included fixing the weave. He feels
that we are not put in the position to deal with NYDOT, NJDOT and the Federal
Government. Mr. Disario answered a Municipality would have a better standing with
these multiple agencies than a single Developer would.
Alderisio asked if the Traffic Engineer has approached the DOT to discuss this problem
about the weave as he does not want the Township to be responsible after the
Development is completed. Mr. Jaworski answered that he is not aware of any obligation
making the state responsible for improvements. Mr. Disario stated that it is likely the
weaving problems will continue the way they are.
The Township Attorney asked Mr. Disario to explain about acquisition costs in the
Transportation Improvement District (TID) Ordinance. Mr. Disario explained that they
have done a Concept Plan to illustrate what they feel the DOT would require.
Williams asked what specifically causes the current back up on Route 17. The Traffic
Engineer said his belief is that it is a reduction from three lanes to one on Route 17 going
North and the weaving activity.
Williams asked that regardless of any improvements being done is it fair to say that the
weaving problem will not be solved and at certain times the bottleneck could be worse.
Mr. Disario answered that this is a fare assumption.
Williams said since we will be living with the weave and the entrance into the site will
alleviate some traffic if the DOT requires less, would the changes still be made. Mr.
Disario answered yes and the Township has the funding out of the “TID”. He then
restated that the Developer sees this as a “public-private partnership”, and an opportunity
to improve the situation.
Williams said Mr. Disario eluded that a large amount of the re-directed traffic going to
the site will come from the local municipalities. He said at the last meeting Spiech
requested some type of study or idea on how this re-direction would impact the local
neighborhoods. Williams feels a lot of people are concerned about the traffic through the
local area. The Traffic Engineer said a lot of people will be travelling on the same
east/west roads that they do now to get to Route 17. Mr. Disario said he went over his
exhibit that shows the breakdown of all new trips and what the projected traffic will be on
various roads in the Township.
Spiech said he has concerns about the traffic on the Friday after Thanksgiving. Mr.
Disario said it will be busy.
DaPuzzo asked the consensus from the audience on proceeding with the Township
Planner’s Cost Basis Presentation or opening the meeting to the Public for any traffic
5
Township of Mahwah Special Work Session and Public Meeting Minutes of
November 4, 2010
questions they may have. It was decided to open the meeting to the Public and then if
there was time the Cost Basis Presentation could be heard. DaPuzzo said there will be
other hearings on this topic.
PUBLIC PORTION
On a motion by DiGiulio, seconded by Roth, the meeting was opened to the Public at
10:35PM. All in favor. Motion carried.
Mr. Robert Zisgen of 85 Hopkins Court asked if Leisure Lane will continue to exist and
connect on the west side of Route 17 to the inner circle of the development. Mr. DiSario
said he contemplated closing off Leisure Lane so there will be rear access for the Bus
Depot for the site and reconfiguring the intersection of Park and Leisure Lane.
Mr. Zisgen said he has fears that if the first phase built is a big box store and then
a time would elapse before proceeding with a Town Center Store, due to lack of demand,
the Township would then be getting the big box traffic without the benefit of the other
Town Center Stores being built.
Mr. Lou Rizzo of 12 Rae Ave asked if the property that already exists was taken into
consideration in the Traffic Study Analysis. Mr. DiSario said the numbers in the report
were for everything on the property that exists that generates traffic.
Mr. Michael DeLuca of 11 Parsons Court mentioned that it seemed everything hinged on
the approval from the New Jersey Department of Transportation. He said he cannot see
the rational between giving the authority to permit this Development without the DOT’s
okay and if they should say “no” where does the Township stand. DaPuzzo said this does
not say to go ahead of this. He explained that it gives the Applicant the right to go the
Planning Board with a formal plan. DaPuzzo said the property is being rezoned for
something more useful and gives more taxes to the Township.
Mr. DeLuca asked if our proximity involves any input from the New York Department of
Transportation. DaPuzzo answered only with the weave.
Mr. Gary Paton of 83 Fisher Road said he believes there was a “shovel ready” project to
repave the overpass on East and West Ramapo Valley Avenues and approximately
$700,000.00 was spent on a contractor basis to repave it. He feels this Crossroads project
will be much bigger and is having trouble believing the work will be $2.5M. Mr. Paton
has concerns that more traffic will be going through the local roads.
Alderisio stated that West Ramapo was more than repaving that is why the numbers are
high. Mr. Jaworski interjected and said there is a difference with a private developer
doing the work opposed to a public Municipality doing the work.
6
Township of Mahwah Special Work Session and Public Meeting Minutes of
November 4, 2010
Mr. Bill Krame of 58 James Brite Circle said he appreciated the work done by the
professionals in their analysis of the traffic. He asked if the improvements obtained from
the DOT were done in phases would all site improvements have to be done at the same
time. Mr. Jaworski answered yes they would. Mr. Krame then asked if the “TIP”
payments are above and beyond the estimated improvement costs. Mr. Jaworski
answered the payments to the Township would be only as square footage is built. Mr.
Krame said the money would not come into the Township. He stated that he is favor of
the project and feels there can be solutions to solve the problems. Mr. Krame said he
does have concerns that extra funds could come into the Township at some future date.
Mr. Jaworski said yes there is that problem but this Ordinance is just a draft at this time.
If the Council should deem that phasing is not acceptable there may have to be other
alternatives.
Mr. Krame said he has concerns that site improvements such as intersection of Route 202
and Route 17. He asked if this will be improved to the standards of the minimum amount
acceptable to the NJDOT. Mr. Disario answered that the approval when granted by the
Planning Board will be conditioned on the NJDOT approval. The DOT will mandate
what improvements are necessary. The “TID” has surplus funding to satisfy DOT
improvements. Mr. Krame said his concerns are that the DOT be responsible enough for
any negative impact they may have so that the Township does not have to rely on monies
they do not have through the “TID”.
Mrs. Donna Connolly of Karen Drive said she has concerns about traffic on local roads.
She makes it a point to not leave her house at peak rush hours because of the traffic.
On a motion by Alderisio, seconded by Roth, the meeting was closed to the public at
10:48PM. All in favor. Motion carried.
Larson asked when it would be anticipated that improvements would be started. Mr.
Jaworski answered it will be a long timeline, possibly 12 to 16 months. The process and
could be done in a phase process or as global process application. Larson asked if the
Estimated costs are in today’s construction costs. Mr. Disario answered the costs are
from a few years ago so the traffic improvements would be less today.
DaPuzzo asked for a timeframe for the next Special Meeting for the Cost Basis Analysis
presented by the Township Planner. It was decided to have another meeting on Monday,
December 6, 2010 at 8:00PM. DaPuzzo said this will be advertised on the website and
on the cable channel.
DaPuzzo asked to reschedule the Council Meeting of November 11, 2010 to Monday,
November 22, 2010.
7
Township of Mahwah Special Work Session and Public Meeting Minutes of
November 4, 2010
DISCUSSIONS
1a.
Amendment to Schedule III: Off Street Parking Areas of Section 8-2.5 of the
Township Code
DaPuzzo said this is an Ordinance to enforce the law for a one hour limitation for tractor
trailer trucks parking at Pilot.
Ordinance will be introduced in the later portion of the Public Meeting.
1b.
Amendments to Section 4-2, Towing, of the Township Code
DaPuzzo suggested changing the 800 square feet to 720 square feet on Minimum
storage requirements. DaPuzzo said the change is each Tower has to have their own
equipment and storage area. He said he met with Captain Sinneve to put all changes
together.
Ordinance will be introduced in the later portion of the Public Meeting.
2.
Mayoral Appointment; Community Cable Television Committee
Resolution shall be voted on in the Public Meeting.
3.
Raffle Application; Oakland Education Foundation (On Premise)
The Raffle Application was tentatively approved. Final approval shall be voted on in the
Public Meeting.
APPROVAL OF BILLS AND CLAIMS
None.
ORDINANCES – INTRODUCTIONS
The Title of an Ordinance was read as follows:
AN ORDINANCE TO AMEND SCEHDULE III, OFF SITE PARKING AREAS
OF SECTION 8-2.5 OF THE TOWNSHIP CODE OF THE TOWNSHIP OF
MAHWAH
RESOLUTION – ORDINANCE NO. 1681
Introduced by DiGiulio, seconded by Spiech
RESOLVED that the Ordinance be passed and adopted on first reading.
FURTHER RESOLVED that said ordinance be considered for final passage at a
meeting to be held on November 22, 2010 at the Municipal Offices, 475 Corporate Drive,
Mahwah, New Jersey at 8:00PM.
FURTHER RESOLVED that the Municipal Clerk shall publish said ordinance with
notice of introduction, passage and time and place where said Ordinance will be
considered for final passage.
8
Township of Mahwah Special Work Session and Public Meeting Minutes of
November 4, 2010
Roll call vote: Alderisio, yes; DiGiulio, yes; Larson, yes; Roth, yes; Spiech, yes;
Williams, yes; DaPuzzo, yes
***
The title of an Ordinance was read as follows:
AN ORDINANCE AMENDING CHAPTER 4-2 ENTITLED “TOWING” OF THE
REVISED GENERAL ORDINANCES OF THE TOWNSHIP OF MAHWAH
RESOLUTION – ORDINANCE NO. 1682
Introduced by Spiech, seconded by Roth
RESOLVED that the Ordinance be passed and adopted on first reading.
FURTHER RESOLVED that said ordinance be considered for final passage at a
meeting to be held on November 22, 2010 at the Municipal Offices, 475 Corporate Drive,
Mahwah, New Jersey at 8:00PM.
FURTHER RESOLVED that the Municipal Clerk shall publish said ordinance with
notice of introduction, passage and time and place where said Ordinance will be
considered for final passage.
Roll call vote: Alderisio, yes; DiGiulio, yes; Larson, yes; Roth, yes; Spiech, yes;
Williams, yes; DaPuzzo, yes
RESOLUTION
Resolution #095-10A and the Raffle Application for the Oakland Education Foundation
(On Premise) were voted on. The Resolution is attached to and made part of these
Meeting Minutes.
NEW BUSINESS
None
OLD BUSINESS
DiGiulio said Councilman Williams and the Recreation Committee’s Parade was great
and there was a large turnout.
9
Township of Mahwah Special Work Session and Public Meeting Minutes of
November 4, 2010
On a motion by Alderisio, seconded by Roth, the meeting was adjourned at 11:15PM.
All in favor. Motion carried.
Respectfully submitted,
Kathrine G. Coletta, RMC/CMC/MMC
Municipal Clerk
Meeting Minutes prepared and typed by Deputy Municipal Clerk Jan Fox.
10