Brandon Harvey [saf anonymised. Feb 2012]
Interviewer:
Okay. Now if you imagine that your teaching career is a book.
Respondent:
Yes.
Interviewer: Okay. And you have chapters so think about your life as a…as a lecturer or
teacher whatever erm and each part of that is…is a…is a chapter. Erm do you want to just
kind of identify what those chapters would be and talk me through it. You might want to do
this on a piece of paper if you’ve got a piece of paper.
Respondent: Yes I don’t know that I can… I’m not sure I’d have many chapters really
again, I’m sorry you’re…you’re…you’re interviewing the wrong person I should think. Well
I…I’ve got some stuff here this’ll do. It’s not going to be a very big book I’m afraid.
Erm…
Interviewer:
You’ve lots of written on that already.
Respondent:
I know but I’ll – it’s typical…
Interviewer:
Have a blank piece of paper.
Respondent:
Oh go on then. Thanks very much.
Interviewer:
away.
There you go. It’ll be easier for us to follow because we’re going to take this
So Chap- - oh you’re going to take this away? Oh I see okay. Well
Chapter 1 would be when I used to be a teacher in a school or in
schools that would be like a horror comic chapter really okay, I’m trying to forget that. So
writing that would be painful erm…
Respondent:
Interviewer:
So okay I won’t ask you to explore that.
Respondent: No go on [cross talking 0:12:07] explore if you want it’s a long time ago
anyway now. I used to like it in many ways but I couldn’t really take the rough with the
smooth – that was my big problem. Which was an early thing that somebody said. But I did
like it in many ways. I used to enjoy the er sport aspects of it particularly.
Interviewer:
Right.
Respondent:
Erm…
Interviewer:
So what, sorry what have you written there?
Respondent:
Yes rough with the smooth.
Interviewer:
Rough with the smooth.
Respondent: Or there’s a not rough with the smooth, rough with the smooth not, you know
I couldn’t – I wouldn’t presumably have a negative person, I would you know in this… I
don’t know if you’ve taught in schools have you at all?
Interviewer:
No, no no no.
Respondent:
Very wise, very wise.
Interviewer:
Oh she says it with horror.
Respondent: I always hate it when students ask me for a reference for a teaching job. Erm
you know you get, obviously they’re not the dedicated scholars that we get [?? 0:12:53]
obviously so you do get a lot of problem kids and everything. You get a lot of good ones as
well and if you’re a teacher that survives you’ll be able to focus on the positive and that
works much better and therefore I wasn’t able to do that. And plus I couldn’t be bothered
with the… Let me, what shall I put here? The nitty gritty stuff like how long are your socks?
And all this palaver I couldn’t be bothered with that at all you know I had no interest in sock
length whatever but you were supposed to have.
Interviewer:
Oh what, we-, why were you? Were you teaching sport then?
Respondent: No I did sports as… Well I did a little bit of sports but that’s kind of
volunteering really you know like Saturday morning football and stuff. That was…that was
an enjoyable task.
Interviewer:
So the sock length was…was making sure they kept to the rules and…
Respondent: The what? The socks, yes that was only uniform and all this rubbish. And
assemblies I used to hate them – assemblies oh god. I’m going to have to go and, yes find a
darkened room in a minute.
Erm so all this baggage it was horrendous really. Oh and inspections that…that’s the worse
of all OFSTED. I’ve probably spelt it wrong but OFSTED inspections you know would
cause terror throughout the profession erm and rightly so.
Erm yes so that was my school teaching day but I still do a bit of that voluntarily – I still do
some tennis coaching which I very much enjoy which kinds of harks back to that in a way.
So that would be Chapter 1.
Interviewer:
Right, okay.
And I might have a subsequent chapter about tennis
coaching maybe.
Respondent:
Interviewer:
Right, yes you can have as many chapters as you like as many or as few.
Respondent: I’m going to, unfortunately I’ll have to stop doing that soon but I have for the
time being. So that’s chapter, so what would Chapter 2 be? Er well then I came here as a
researcher and I did a bit of teaching then so that was teaching the HND builders.
Interviewer:
Wow.
Respondent: Which was… I was very naïve when I first came, well probably am still. But
I was extremely naïve so that was the job that everyone else had avoided of course but I
didn’t view it like that.
Interviewer:
What were you teaching them?
Respondent: Well Pascal of course what else, what else would an HND builder want to
know about building in Pascal? So this was like the early days of computing where it’s a
totally misconceived view that everyone would need to know how to programme a computer
you see which is completely ludicrous. But that was the…the view at the time.
Anyway I quite enjoyed it, it was alright, it was interesting. So that was when I… That was
only six hours, you know that was a six hours a week thing if you remember.
Interviewer:
Oh yes when you were doing the research yes yes.
Respondent: So that was that but I enjoyed that. And then Chapter 3 probably then I got a
job with the… Oh no then I did erm yes Chapter 3 then I got the Open University
that was a good Chapter.
Interviewer:
What’s, what was good about the OU?
Respondent:
Well great students, very good materials. Erm…
Interviewer: Were you…were you tutoring at…at a, at a centre or at a, or…or doing it as a
distance thing?
Respondent: Well it was mainly a distance… It was the… The course was called DT200 it
was social aspects of IT in effect so most of it was… Well first of all I had to read all the
course materials which were of interest even a bit long erm and then oh that was the very
very early days of er computer conferencing systems, CMC for the want of a better word.
First, er really it was the first one I suppose they were experimenting with it. It was an
interface of… The interface was virtually unusable it was good to [?? 0:16:34] you know.
Interviewer:
Yes.
Respondent: And then they bought in a allegedly better interface on top of it where it was
all somehow done in a batch but they omitted to hide it somehow. So one of the things it
would come up with, the message would come up ‘Do you really want to delete the file?’ you
see which was their way of saying “We’re about to send it really.”
So in the early days you’d have to remember that that meant “Yes, yes I do want to delete it.”
And because that meant send it but erm when they hid it behind this new interface that came
up on the screen but you couldn’t do anything about it you see so it would come up ‘Do you
want to delete this file?’ Oh no I don’t want to, avoid that at all costs but it was too late
anyway you couldn’t do anything about it.
So it was an interesting experiment in… And the students found it quite amusing as well I
think. And then I had my first sort of face to face tutorial I had about six a year or so and that
was in [named] University. And I was dreading it but it went really well I really enjoyed it
actually so that was really… And the students were absolutely brilliant. So that was good.
Then I did a night school with some people that were doing their banking exams – night
school for bankers yes. That was interesting. They weren’t quite such dedicated students.
And one of things you had to teach them for some reason was how to work out the APR, is it
APR you know the interest rate. And I couldn’t, never understand that at all. And I even
wrote to the banking education institute and they didn’t seem to understand it either. But
you’d never have to actually work it out anyway it’s one of these ridiculous you know a
computer does it. And so it’s archaic and it’s so bizarre. I don’t know if you’ve looked at the
formula have you? It doesn’t make any sort of sense.
So then Chapter 5 would be probably… Oh it was [this institution] weren’t it? Yes [this
institution] part one I suppose. That was when I, I started off. Erm Chapter 6 might
be an AI course that I did at the Open University which wasn’t quite as an
enjoyable as that it was very much more technical.
Interviewer:
Right.
Respondent: And another Open University course it was T, it was called THD204 which is
a newer version of that which also raised a lot of more complications. So in those days I was
extremely busy because I was doing these two courses plus [this institution] plus the night
school because I had four kids and just one income.
Interviewer:
Right.
Respondent:
So I’ll put busy there I think.
Interviewer:
Busy.
Respondent: And then Chapter 7 would be sort of [this institution] continued I
suppose. Will that do? Plus a bit of tennis coaching on the side of it really.
Interviewer: Tennis coaching. Erm so [this institution] Part 1 and [this institution]
Continued what…what was the diff-, the difference, what?
Respondent: Yes I knew you were going to ask that. There isn’t really one to be honest it’s
all merged into one. But I sort of, I kind of well I like to think I gradually got better at it but I
might be deluding myself okay?
Interviewer:
Sure not.
Respondent:
So part one I didn’t know what I was doing basically in the first year or two.
Interviewer:
Okay.
Respondent:
Just bumbling through like…
Interviewer:
But it’s been continuous you…you’ve been here continuously?
Respondent:
Yes I’ve not stopped, yes.
Interviewer: Yes okay. But so this one you…you didn’t er, didn’t know so much and that
one will be excellent.
Respondent:
Yes.
Interviewer: Erm so looking at those chapters erm you… Er…er…what sort of themes, are
there themes or messages that…that kind of run through that you can see or characters apart
from yourself obviously erm?
Respondent:
Themes.
Interviewer:
Or just ideas anything that you know continues through?
Respondent: Well I mean it’s hard to say really. I think the key thing probably well some
of the, the real boring things I could come up with. I could come up with by way of things
which are really boring – separation. That’s how I’ve got better as it were. I used to be a
little, oh having said that I was totally u-, totally massively overly prepared for this Open
University stuff. I would prepare about ten times more than I actually needed but for some
reason I can’t quite understand I tended not to do so much at [this institution] – I don’t know
why.
But I’ve reverted to this over preparation approach which is what you needed, that’s rule one
in a school is to keep the kids busy if at all possible.
Interviewer:
Right okay.
Respondent:
Er and I’ve sort of kept that going really.
Interviewer: Right and then the other, another theme which again is extremely boring is to
do with the marking. When I first came I would leave the marking and reluctantly you know
not really want to do it and so on. And it became a bit of a monster in the cupboard whereas
now I get on with it immediately and it’s much less of a problem. And it’s a very boring
point.
Erm also I’ve done increasingly more PhD supervision as part one has gone into… So part
one I probably didn’t have any PhD people to supervise or in fact part one I was probably,
doing me own, finishing me own PhD off. So more, it’s become more PhD supervision.
Also I’ve now started in part – somewhere between part one and part… Just last year I
started doing a Research Practice Masters module which I very much enjoy, that’s very
interesting.
Interviewer: Right. So there’s more of an emphasis as you’ve gone through from towards
the research side of teaching?
Respondent: Yes probably. I’m almost entirely at Level 6 and 7 now. I do have one level,
one module, level four module but that’s been, that’s [?? 0:22:27] I mean that’s a Business
School module.
Interviewer: There’s a lot of the stuff that you were talking about at the beginning sort of
skills stuff isn’t it for, particularly stuff that skills for people that don’t necessarily you know
want to know anymore than just being able to actually do the things their business.
Respondent: No that’s right yes. But there is quite a lot of skills stuff in the research
practice the way I’m doing it at least. Because it’s erm yes it starts off with more or less the
study skills stuff, you know research skills stuff which I think the…the feedback suggests
they found quite handy especially the returning students.
Interviewer:
Yes.
Respondent: The other thing is I’ve tended to er kind of I put less involvement there in the
sense that I’m not so… I’m more happy to just leave things, leave things quiet in the class as
it were because the students they eventually start talking about stuff you know whereas I used
to feel I had to be driving it all the time now I’m more happy to just let it unfold. Erm yes I
can’t really think of anymore things at the minute generally so.
Interviewer: Okay, alright. No no that’s fine. And erm you…you brought back the tennis
coaching thing at the end there.
Respondent:
Sorry yes.
Interviewer: Erm, I mean is that something that you’re doing, you do that presumably
out…outside?
Respondent: Ah it’s nothing to do with [this institution] and that yes but it’s kind of
teaching. I’ve just been doing that for the last erm really I’m only supporting my son who is
a proper tennis coach. I’m not a qualified tennis coach I just help him but I very much enjoy
it. Unfortunately he’s kind of, he hasn’t got time to do it anymore after this season so I’m
very unlikely to be doing it after this season because they’re going to get a new coach but
he’s going to do it on a Friday when I’m obviously not available. So er I’ll miss that but I do
very much enjoy that.
I like to see – so I mean another theme is I think it’s er the whole thing about it in a way I
suppose this point carrying on is what I do like to do is work with
people who are interested, keen you know what I mean? If they’re not
keen I can’t be… My…my thought used to be I’m afraid at school well you know forget then
I’m not bothered if you’re not… You know whereas we used to have staff who would be
chasing kids at all costs and then the kids would just come in and it’d be a waste of time
anyway. I was, my I’d be happy to just leave it to them I’m afraid. I think they’d of been
better than we would of been.
So I do like working with keen which I know is the easy way of doing it with keen people so
the tennis people are very keen but not necessarily any good but they’re keen you know. And
the same for the research practice but that’s been the nice thing about the research practice
they’re very keen and interested which is very sort of encouraging.
Interviewer:
Okay.
Respondent: The – another theme has been there’s been increasing emphasis on sort of
personal tutor and academic coaching but that’s… I’m quite happy to do that but that has
been more of a push recently.
Interviewer:
And is that a push from you or a push from outside?
Respondent: Well it really is a push from [the Dean] really originally and then just carried
on to some extent but I don’t mind doing that, I don’t think there’s a problem with that. I
don’t have a problem with erm… Well there is a bit of a, I’ve always had this kind of tension
of responsible autonomy versus you know whatever the opposite is er care for want of a
better word.
Than the one, that I agree that they’re meant to be adults and they should be able to manage
them so forth but really I don’t think we should just leave them to it so there’s a bit of a
tension there. I tend to go down, I tend to favour the sort of care approach in practice so I do
sort of chase people and you might argue I should just leave them to it but I tend to chase
them.
Interviewer:
you…
Well that’s interesting because that’s… You kind of were saying before that
Respondent:
The opposite of that yes.
Interviewer:
…the opposite of what you were feeling at the beginning.
Respondent: No I mean I think yes well I did used to… Even then I used to sort of… I
mean I used to try my best to get them to do well do you know what I mean? But erm I much
preferred it when they were, wanted to do it themselves.
Interviewer:
Right okay.
Respondent:
But there probably is a lot of tension there yes.