Consultation In-Person Feedback Collection
Date: December 11, 2013
Group: Minister’s Council on Employment and Accessibility (with Guests)
Location: Vancouver
Number of Attendees: 24
Note: all the information and feedback gathered at this session will be inputted into the overall collection of data and feedback for consideration of the
development of the Disability White Paper.
Feedback:
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Critical that anchor areas do not result in siloe’d solutions. A blueprint to achieve the bigger picture is critical. The areas are
interconnected: Housing affects employment, transportation, the accumulation of assets, and vice versa
Can’t think in terms of unlimited resources, so we need to create a shared vision that integrates networks/systems. It’s important to
increase awareness so that issues around housing and accessibility are addressed from the outset, rather than having to be retrofitted in
later (when it is more costly, too)
Because of the interconnectedness of the issues, it is important to work within systems and with partners to address them.
Government must work together (inter-ministry collaboration) to address things like when impoverished persons with a disability are
discharged from hospitals and given a bus ticket to a shelter, rather than provided some better temporary housing. This is not even a
issue of dignity, it’s a matter of personal safety.
Metrics and definitions are important: no generally accepted definition of “accessible” or what is meant by “universal design”; with
standards that include metrics, accessibility can be measured which makes decisions easier, more transparent and fair
Walkability is an emerging metric for urban design. It is the score is derived from using a computer algorithm taking into account factors
such as length of city blocks, distance from transit stops, amenities, population and density.
Visitability is another emerging metric stemming from a movement to change home construction practices so that all new homes,
whether or not designated for residents who currently have mobility impairments, offer at least one no-step entrance, wide doorways
and at least a half-bathroom on the main floor.
The building code provides a good start for accessibility – at least a baseline from which improvements can be done. As important as it
is for new infrastructure to be accessible, it is also important to maintain existing accessible infrastructure (e.g. protect from erosion)
Feedback:
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A fundamental problem is the high cost of housing in BC, which exacerbates the problem of little availability of affordable accessible
homes. Waitlists for accessible housing are very long. Employment is an important part of the solution
Transparency in decision-making is critical, so people can see why they have/have not got funding, or housing, or other supports or
services.
Sometimes it’s not a money issue, it’s a problem with even knowing how to find and access the housing. A person with a disability often
needs a very good support network to help them work through the bureaucracy.
Discrimination in housing is a problem, as well. Instances were identified where people have been denied a home because they have a
disability (the landlord told them the room was already rented, yet the sign stayed up the following day)
Cost of living and cost of Housing in BC creates its own issue
Housing is part of a bigger issue, very interconnected with work, ability to save, asset building and networks.
Need a shared vision for BC
Affordable housing, and need more supports outside welfare. HAFI ran out of $ and not accessible by many who need to make
adaptations to their home.
Create a standard of accessibility and must “nourish” enrich it over time
Address service gaps in the Housing and Built environment system.
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Aids and Devices being fundamental to BC being most progressive jurisdiction. They need to be individualized and personal.
Youth Transition an issue.
UNCRPD as a framework is good.
Income testing – can be controversial.
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Feedback:
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PS should be defined broadly and include things such as sign language interpreters, job coaches, interveners, attendant workers,
transportation
2 main documents that should be adhered to: In Unison and the UN Convention
UN Convention should be used as a baseline, it defines entitlements (including employment)
PS enables employment
In order to be “progressive’ there must be PS, they are foundational
Need to demonstrate buy in/leadership from all leaders (govt, business, others) when supporting people with disabilities
PS should be part of “built environment”
People believe supports are there already; they aren’t and it requires lots of effort (wasted energy) to get them.
BC employment strategy isn’t grounded in PS (nor in Unison or UN Convention)
PS should be focused on individualized supports (will decrease abandonment) and use navigators, peer navigation
Income is a barrier, can’t get to food banks, education is also a barrier
Youth transition issues are barriers
Not enough supports for those with brain injuries (e.g. housing, communication focused supports)
Some can’t get help in a timely fashion
Little funding for wheelchairs, scooters, people who suffer the most
Not enough family doctors (for instance needed to complete disability assistance forms)
There is an attitude, “one size fits all” – in terms of supports, it doesn’t
Individualized supports help people with disabilities and there are savings to government (e.g. reduced IA caseloads)
Provincial government needs to show leadership
Income testing is a barrier to accessing supports
Employment agencies can do some assessments, and do customized employment
However fee-for-service model means the level they can bill government for these services is capped.
Job coaching isn’t long term, needs to be for some
Some clients can get additional services through other government agencies (like CLBC) but others aren’t CLBC eligible
Feedback:
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Deaf children and adults
o Hard to define social networks geographically (virtual, local)
o Can be virtual, province-wide
o Coming together in-person at some point is important
o Support established connections
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In Sport & Recreation
o Important for social life
 Two aspects
o Requirement for disability specific social networks
o Remove barriers on existing social networks
How can we ensure social networks are accessible?
 No reason someone with a disability can’t be involved
 Most programs (sport & rec.) can be adapted
 Make sure networks are available for different levels of interest and ability
 What accommodations would allow participation?
 How do these happen?
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Being exposed to diversity of people early helps break down barriers
By including children with disabilities in programs, benefits all
Inclusive programming is KEY
Programs, sports and recreational activities that include all abilities and interests
White Paper: Highlight areas/programs that are demonstrating leadership
How do you take a successful program and broaden it out?
 Making sure people are thinking about adaptive sport and recreation
 Part of regular curriculum
What technologies would help break down barriers?
 Sports
 Music
 Recreation
Goal should be participation of every child
Healthy, active living
Feedback:
Risk factors
 Obesity
 Risk of failure
 Concerns of parents, etc.
How do we move beyond these to full inclusion?
 Work
 Activity
 Volunteering
 Need to change attitudes – “can-do”, focus on positives - rather than risks
 Outcomes
 Well-meaning protection, people are more capable
 Supported for success by strong social network
 First contact is important
o Grow awareness
o Desire
o Confidence
o First step needs to be positive
o Work towards solution if network/program is not inclusive
o Avoid “no”
Social network = lifelong friends
o Isolation and feeling alone – Social networks combat these feelings
Need integration at all levels
o Government leading by example
o All British Columbians supported and supporting inclusive social networks
o Build on success
o Accessibility benefits all
o Universal design
o We all need infrastructure around us
Feedback:
Everyone part of the solution
o Government need to lead so people understand how everyone is part of solution
o Government needs to be role model
o Ensure surrounded by those who live and support people with disabilities
o Normalization of disabilities
o Opportunity missed not demonstrating inclusion and announcement
Community
o How can we demonstrate and embrace this?
o Exists in schools, workplaces
o What about Facebook? How does that work as a network?
New generation of virtual networks
o How do they provide traditional ‘benefits’ of a social network?
Levels of social networking
 How does technology benefit those who use it?
 What about those who don’t?
 Connection to others is KEY
 We all learn from one another
 How can we leverage successes?
Generation now- not ‘allowed’ to make mistakes
 Translates to disability community as well
How can we minimize risk and embrace opportunities?
Personal supports critical to being able to take advantage of opportunities
Participation is the stepping stone
 Need to reduce barriers so people can join, be involved, participate and build their network
Feedback:
Need to identify and address barriers that are preventing people from building their networks
Sometimes solutions are very simple
Focus on accessibility
Welcome communities
 Need to make sure communities are inclusive and welcoming
 One incident of exclusion can be devastating
Need to change attitudes
Need to look at what ‘inclusion’ actually is
 Equal?
 Fair?
Shift happens for children as they age
 More from full inclusion to barriers/judgements
Is it the adults or the children who start to discriminate?
Education
Parents need to lead by example
Empowerment
 Teach children to support and empower children with disabilities
 What strategies will/can build strong, confident people
Peers as mentors
Supports to broader community to encourage all to embrace diversity
Assign all to a mentor role?
Everyone can contribute
Acknowledge gifts and skills that everyone has
Encourage sharing and leading by example
Take social responsibility
Government can support/role model- bring others together to lead
 Build infrastructure
 i.e. Presidents Group as mentors/leaders/spokespeople
Feedback:
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Need to be changing values and attitudes
Opportunity to take leadership through the white paper in this area
Help people to create networks – teach them and mentor young people. Example, brought young people to lager urban centre to learn
how to create networks.
Recreation and Fitness not in segregated settings – the Arts as well.
Technology plays a big role in networks
Look for pockets of excellence and determine if we can take these to scale.
Want to explore anything that is new
Explore supports for small and medium size businesses. Cost of accommodations can be a barrier for the size of company. Provide
better tax incentives for the purchase of adaptive technology and accommodations to keep people in their jobs
Need to change mentalities and stereotyping of people with disabilities and ability to work and contribute. Deal with reluctance up
front to accept someone into the workplace.
Disability is often seen first
Many employers see disability as a liability
Shift in attitude is necessary, and a shift in culture. The solution is both sides need to be educated. Disclosure being an example.
There is a domino effect- We ultimately want the end result to be people with disabilities fully participating in our communities. Work
is integral to this participation.
Need focus on the individual
Early education and early intervention in school.
Work is key to full contribution.
As an employer he has looked specifically for a person with a disability to hire, at a decent wage of twenty-five dollars/hr, flexible work
arrangement in an IT job, part-time, but prospective employees all wanted cash so their disability benefits wouldn’t be affected. Asset
level was the greatest issue. Alberta has a much higher assets limit. May want to consider this for BC.
Not everyone we are talking about is on disability pensions. People are also using the Opportunity fund (good!)
We need to remove disincentives for people to work. Income cap can be a issue, people just work up to the maximum cap. The jump to
not having benefits drawn back is quite big, 1700.
Trend for new innovation is important, and to consider and recognize the continuum is important.
Feedback:
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Make sure area, of innovation, of solutions and issues are not silos
“Smart cities” concept – using technology to better run cities, but still not a lot of focus on disabilities. Still not being integrated into
planning.
Government with community needs to focus on strengthening the framework in place across the continuum (of services, people, life
cycles etc.)
Innovation is key to bridging issues
Accessibility is about opportunity... and not always about technology.
It is about continuity and all disconnected phases. Age is a determinate.
Use a systems approach to accessibility and solutions – Build a long-term strategy.
We need to change the kinds of questions we ask.
We won’t have succeeded until we are just thinking about people an not the disabilities. Good example in mainstream coaching,
teaching
Build Knowledge.
There is a disability culture that must be recognized (positive) that can be likened to gender or sexuality.
There are many separate areas of disability.
How do we make the issues/solutions/ topic of interest to a broader base of citizens. For example, what if you aren’t a parent or a
person with a disability.
Innovation is key to “when it comes into play and who are key players”.
We need to get them young!
“Un-education” of negative attitudes also important.
What about the people who haven’t been exposed positively to disability, haven’t lived with inclusion?
Government role is to provide a framework.
Feedback:
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Work is about a better quality of life
Work should be a right, because it is so fundamental to a good life, including emotional well-being, cultural and social.
People don’t want to be a cost to the system
Costs cannot be downloaded onto the employer
Free market competition can make it hard for many people with disabilities to compete
“I can’t” attitude of some people with disabilities. Support to overcome negative views.
Negative perceptions start early in life.
Families need to be supported to advocate for their children.
Change from a n early age, for example, positive expectations like “ you will be a contributing member”.
There is a strong fear of disclosure.
Need to mitigate risks. What if you don’t know how to get back on the system if you don’t succeed at first in work, episodic
disability etc
Change attitudes of employers – fear of cost and risk.
Feedback:
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Beneficial for everyone
Every citizen has the right to contribute and work to increase the quality of their life
Barrier to work are also barriers to other areas like financial security, social media.
Disability and not working is one more barrier.
Not working blocks off many, many barriers
Mission out on richness of everyone’s contribution
Diversity offers many benefits
Are only as good as a society as the way we treat people with disabilities
Diversity call us to a better way of being
Focus on ability and allow to make a contribution
Employment is better than disability pension
Part-time work, removes barriers, consider medical costs and subsidized housing
Employer attitudes and ability to figure out how tasks can be redistributed
Previous experience can result in fear of trying again
People want meaningful employment
Messaging that after school, go to day program versus employment
Invisible disability – issue of disclosure and when/how this is perceived by employers
Inadequate employment services, inadequate support many different types of disability needs
Family expectations, shift to consider work as an option from a ound age
Begin expectation early, create a foundation
Improve transition for youth to employment, better access to information
Family expectations, better information from medical personnel at point of diagnosis, when parents are handed a list of things their
child will never be able to do
Employer many believe they are inclusive, many not be aware they are not
Consider training and education for employers
Biggest barrier is attitude in community, segregated services are a problem
Lack of insight that we all have a range of ability
Barriers, including cost of interpreters for Deaf individuals
Education levels are high, but unemployment is also high
Severe lack of rehabilitation for blind and visually impaired (Blind confidence training) and none that are publically funded
Nott everyone is an advocate for wage subsidy
It is viewed by some as a continuation of charity model
Consider loan forgiveness for people with disabilities
Feedback:
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Consider loan forgiveness for people with disabilities
Consider new technologies to address the impact of disability
Shift attitudes, bring out true potential
Some progress in physical accessibility, which result in organizations believing they are “done” and fully accessible
Get people with disabilities into jobs so they can prove themselves, examine wage subsidy or at least money for accessibility and
accommodations
Consider grants to individual to hire or purchase what they need
Feedback:
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Need to be able to accumulate assets to be able to save
For many, their home is their biggest asset
Myths are barriers. For example, “I can’t own a home or I will be ineligible for assistance”
Entrepreneurship and personal supports can help people become employed and save.
Equipment can be a huge expense. Look to the tax system to offset costs.
Need an income – ties into work and satisfaction of working
RDSP is good, but is it exempt?
But it’s a challenge to contribute without income and beyond disability assistance benefits
Unemployment among the Blind is 80%, so much potential wasted
Transportation is a major obstacle
Need training to be independent, for people who are Blind
Generation of people with disabilities outliving their parents often plays a role in terms of the dignity of independence
Excellent education, but transition to work from education is missing
Need to get business to invest in entrepreneurs, government could underwrite to start a business, but at home (“pre-employment”)
Problems in school, not included in high school, result is isolation
Need Blind teachers and role models
Assignment of assistance precludes inclusion, etc.
Need clarity on rules about assets
Question of marriage on disability assistance, depends on economic status
How could you buy a house?
A house is usually a person’s primary asset, how does this apply to people with disabilities?
No buy-in on RDSP from Deaf adults
Age is a problem; there is good buy-in for children.
People with a need for devices and support from their families for hearing aids. They are spending money on this.
RDSP is of greater benefit to individuals of upper middle class families.
Could businesses assist in getting cheaper equipment?
Need to look at hearing aid competition and regulation.
Use of generic devices, like iPhone, iPads and apps
Use of collectives and non-profits to create a savings plan
Broader access to RDSP for equipment that could be obtained without tax or covered by a tax credit