Questions for Bill Rabbia:
1. Could you describe how general trash and compost get picked up in the
Hybrid PAYT program? Why is it labeled hybrid? Do all these systems only
pick up yard waste, or do some pick up food scraps?
No food waste at curb yet, but some institutions. Local colleges, Herkimer County
Community College, Department of Corrections – Prisons, a majority of them. NYS
Solid Waste Managers. Have been doing this for a while. Different systems for
different prisons.
Zero waste lunch programs at elementary schools, secondary schools. At-home
composting sales, pushing education. Before going curbside trying to get folks to do
things personally. Same theory behind PAYT could be extend
Utica is a hybrid program. 50% of revenues come from annual user fees billed to
property owner, other 50% comes from bag sales. The more you generate, the more
you pay. Hits tax-exempt properties as well, even non-profits need to pay user fees.
Valley communities use 100% PAYT program, which is riskier
2. When was PAYT initiated in Utica? Who designed the system and who
decided to implement it?
Been involved in communities that have switched into more PAYT system. Elected
officials need to show that it is not a new tax, not a new charge. Hard to sell
politically! No additional communities have added. Big part of sale is in
demonstrating that taxes also reduced, it incentivizes recycling; in these economic
times, communities are trying not to increase taxes, so it’s hard to sell.
From municipal standpoint, you’re saving money, paying less for disposal. From
individual standpoint, it all depends on original billing methods and generation
status. If they can show you you’re saving $50/ year in taxes…
For some people it’s going to be cheaper,
Ilium, Utica, Allen Styring (passed away), EPA has been pushing it for years, PAYT
was a creative way to push it for years.
Most subscription for private collection is PAYT.
3. Where you involved with the OHSWA at that time? Were you involved in the
implementation of PAYT?
4. What was the motivation for implementing PAYT in the late 1980s?
5. Have different PAYT systems been implemented in the different communities
serviced by the OHSWA? How do the systems reflect their regions? What
similarities exist between communities that have decided to use PAYT? Have
dense urban centers implemented PAYT, or are the locations largely rural or
suburban?
Smaller towns: non-economical to set up a street route. More popular in densely
populated towns. More affluent, densely populated areas are perhaps less likely to
do PAYT.
In Utica: Landlord is hit with user fee, tenants are the ones buying the blue bags.
Landlords like PAYT! Less convenient, in the long run, to use PAYT. Hard to sell it to
tenants. Explanation of benefits, increased diversion, tax changes.
Utica has had program since 1988, from time to time, a contingent of landlords will
rebel against because tenants don’t actually throw away waste! Initially, folks see
benefit, but others just want flat fee. “It cuts both ways.” Some landlords want
individual meters for water and sewer, others just want the one.
Look at how debates over sewer/water individual meter split-ups in Troy indivudality
6. How did they decide on the price of bags? The weekly allotments?
Prices of bags reflect overall budget, purchase and distribution, then it’s just a
matter of figuring out how much weight can go into a bag, how many bags a
homeowner will buy based on tonnage, basic division. You can get a feel for the
number of bags. Basically just exempting out commercial, three family or larger
households.
7. Did these decisions come more from the OHSWA and other government
organizations? Was there pressure from social movements to put a PAYT
system in place?
8. More generally, what sorts of difficulties did you find in implementing the
PAYT system?
Hardest thing is selling to non-PAYT communities. Needs political backbone.
Benefits speak loud and clear, but you need municipal board on same page, willing
to give it a try in order to reduce tipping fees.
Implementing has actually been pretty hard. Bags are cheapest way to go, since
toters are expensive. Collection can be easier in newer designed cities. Toters rough
in a developed city like Troy.
Revenues based on projected bag sales. Revenues pay for it all.
Hans Arnold—Original Executive Director of OHSWA, Waste Management
Consulting Company, Garehart? Gehrhardt. 315-738-1100.