e have studied the Puritan work ethic and its effect on the American
psyche. What about the above expressed belief in God and punishment
- is this still part of the American belief system?
Discuss, and give examples. Respond to three of your classmates
comments.
120 CommentsAdd a comment

Indian Princess
I believe that many people often have the idea that many natural disasters and consequences are caused by God's displeasure or his punishments. This assumption was created because many people base
everything in their life on their religion, and believe that everything that happens to them is caused by their God. Many people also find themselves in situations where they will commit a crime or do a
dishonorable deed, and will then receive some sort of bad luck. This effect adds to the theory that God reacts to situations he does not like by creating natural disasters or severe consequences to punish the
people who have done wrong.
9/24/2013 2:56:20 PM

Uwouldwant2know:P
I personally do not think it is apart of America's belief system because, for example, earthquakes these days we explain by things including plate tectonics that explain that. Same goes for volcanos, and even
for hurricanes we use air patterns and temperatures to help explain "why". Though, I would say that in the bigger picture some people could say that God is what is controlling everything. Though that is not
our "go to" explanation, sometimes wen something significant and life changing happens people say things like "Thank God", or the opposite, but I would still say that the main goto explanation for the
American belief system would be more science based. If those particular Puritans lived during these times they would probably think that the whole world was going down under. :P
9/24/2013 3:00:37 PM
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D'Squarius Greene Jr.
I would say that part of this belief is still with us, because whenever there is a natural disaster, a school shooting, or a terrorist attack, we always go to God in those situations. However, when things are all
safe and good, God is put on the back-burner. This idea of a vengeful God is not a bad one, because if we daily thought about that, maybe our nation's actions would be guided by morals instead of personal
gain.
9/24/2013 3:45:35 PM
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D'Squarius Greene Jr.
@ Indian Princess, In Ecclesiastes chapter 3, from the Old Testament of the Bible, it is written that there is a time and place for everything under the sun. This means a time for natural disasters and all other
horrible things. While I don't think God just says, 'Oh I'll blow away New Orleans with a hurricane, I think being faithful to him can avert such things.
9/24/2013 3:58:56 PM

D'Squarius Greene Jr.
@Uwouldwant2know, Yes. I think the Puritans would want to go back to England if they saw us nowadays. But the Puritans living back then probably already thought the world they lived in was going down
under! lol
9/24/2013 4:04:35 PM

Harry Potter
I do believe that this is still a part of the American belief system. Whenever there is a tragedy or natural disaster, it seems like many people wonder what they did to deserve it, which goes with the idea that
God is punishing them. I think that sometimes even people who aren't very religious turn to God for answers when they're going through a hard time. Of course, not everyone thinks that way, but I think the
idea is definitely still believed by many people in America today. However, I don't personally believe that God punishes us for our sins because according to the Bible, the price for our sins isn't paid until
after we die.
9/24/2013 4:23:17 PM

Indian Princess
@Uwouldwant2know, I agree, however, even though many people are aware of how certain natural disasters occur, they still often believe its because of their wrong doing or an intentional mishap within
society. I believe that even though the facts are there, a very large amount of people still relate everything to God.
9/24/2013 7:09:52 PM

Indian Princess
@Harry Potter I too believe that it is occurrences within our soil that cause natural disasters such as earthquakes to take place. I am a firm believer, but I do not believe that God would try to punish us
through such treacherous scenarios. I believe this because earthquakes effect thousands of people, if they are serious enough. Why would God want to punish thousands of people in one particular area at
once? I believe that it is very unlikely that each of these people throughout this area did something so wrong to anger God, that he felt the need to punish them. I understand receiving punishment
individually, however, a large group of people cannot be punished equally for different faults, especially if many of the people within this area whom were effected, did not even commit an error against
God.
9/24/2013 7:17:47 PM

Indian Princess
@D'Squarius Greene Jr., I disagree with your fact about how when things are well, we toss God in the back-burner. I know many Christians, including myself, who thank God for the good things that happen to
us, not just beg him for help during hard or desperate times. I don't believe that this is what America has come to. For example, when an earthquake occurs, many people believe that it is because the anger
of God. They then pray to God that they are sorry for their sins because they believe that this praise will save them. Also, if they survive this disaster, they thank God for choosing to keep them alive. I
believe that no matter what the situation is, people are constantly reaching out to God, whether it is for help, or if it is to give thanks.
9/24/2013 7:27:42 PM

Table
I believe that it is still part of the American belief system from getting cancer to flunking, people still turn to God, even a lot who are not Puritan and say that what's happened is because it's God punishing
us for our sins, kind of how little kids say "It's raining because God's crying."
9/24/2013 7:35:38 PM

Not Michaela Banks
In my opinion, I believe that people confuse God's hardships and trials with God being angry at His people. While yes, we do all live under a God who becomes angry and jealous with us, as it states in the Old
Testament of the Bible, I do not believe God randomly throws hurricanes, tornados, etc., because he wants to punish and hurt us. I believe it is His way of testing us of our faith. Those who do not believe do
not know that in fact, we are supposed to praise God even in the hard times. So, the ignorant people towards Christianity in America, may very well believe that our God is punishing us and may very well
believe that we are trying to "repent" for our sins and ask for forgiveness, even though God's mercy over weighs His anger. Psalm 30:5 states that "His anger lasts only a moment, but His favor lasts a life
time." Those who know the Bible, or are believer in the Christian faith are practicing what our manual for life has taught us to do. God is often used or referenced in presidential speeches that are about
natural disasters, to provide comfort the people. The belief that God is punishing us (and as I believe His is testing us), is heavily influenced by the number of people who are somewhat naïve to any faith at
all. If a tornado came through all of America, and wiped out everyone except 50 people, I would not be surprised if all of the converted to Christianity, based solely on the fact that the human sole finds
comfort in knowing there is a high power than what we are. To conclude my reaction, I do believe that this is still in our America beliefs, but to some extent. I believe God is chastising us to get us back on
track in our faith, but I think it is confused greatly with God wanting to hurt us. Others could believe that God is punishing us, for all the wrongs and sins we've committed.
9/24/2013 7:56:49 PM

WrestlingChampSosa03
There is a difference between when a natural catastrophe is from god and when it is not. First god always warns mankind beforehand and provides a way out for people who repent (i.e. the flood, Sodom and
Gomorrha, etc.). He does that by sending prophets who keep reminding mankind to turn away from their wrong doing before it is to late (Jonah was sent to the Ninivites). I believe that even today people
still blame all the bad events in their lives on God, because they do not know about him. There is a difference between causing evil and allowing it to happen. Many people cause their own personal calamity
based on the fact that they make bad decision. To illustrate: When you decide to drive your car under influence and you end up having an accident, you cannot blame anybody but yourself. God has nothing
to do with that, but some people today just cannot face the consequences of their actions or bad decisions and need somebody else to blame to make themselves feel better.
9/24/2013 9:04:20 PM

WrestlingChampSosa03
@d'squarius greene jr I share your opinion completely. Mankind only turns to god if something bad happened or they need help. People should make God a part of their life, regardless of it is going good or
bad at the moment.
9/24/2013 9:09:51 PM

WrestlingChampSosa03
@table I believe that it is still part of our believe system today as well. Children are raised with the believe that if something bad happens, God most likely meant for it to happen. I.e. if someone dies
parents tell their children that it was due to God needing another angel to reign in heaven with him.
9/24/2013 9:12:49 PM

WrestlingChampSosa03
@Uwouldwant2know I do not share your opinion, but I can see where you are coming from. Scientists in the modern times do not believe in supernatural causes, they always need to find a logical and
scientific explanation even if there is not one.
9/24/2013 9:16:17 PM

Lola
In my opinion God does not use natural disasters as punishment but as a test of faith and a means of creating a stronger bond with His people. Nowadays we have scientific explanations for practically every
natural phenomena so most Americans no longer believe that they are caused by God's wrath. Instead people believe that when natural disasters occur it is God's will whether they escape unscathed or not.
Unlike the Puritans, we now know and understand that God is a loving God and does not want to destroy his people but wants to create an everlasting bond with them but at the time the Puritans greatly
feared God and saw Him as a more punitive and harsh God. They believed in salvation through predestination and the belief that natural disasters were God's way of punishing His people supported this
because the people harmed by these natural disasters could be dismissed as obviously not being chosen for salvation.
9/25/2013 12:05:58 AM

Not Michaela Banks
@Lola I agree with you, but I think people rationalize the fact that these bad things happen. While we all know the reasoning behind it, the human soul wants to find comfort or find an explanation deemed
"better" than what is generally known. We do live under an angry God, but his mercy outweighs anger. I agree when you back up your thesis by saying, the puritians did believer in predestination, therefore
they rationalized it as God taking away the not chosen people.
9/25/2013 7:09:20 AM

Lola
@Uwouldwant2know I agree that in today's society since religion is a lot of the time not at the forefront of people's lifestyle Americans rely on scientific proofs to explain natural phenomena and only turn to
God to explain the lifechanging outcomes, like deaths, that occur because of said phenomena which greatly differs from the strict beliefs of the Puritans.
9/25/2013 11:42:40 AM

Lola
@Harry Potter I agree with you in that I also believe that God does not allow natural disasters to occur becuase he wants to punish us but that he has his reasons for allowing certain catastrophes to occur. I
also think that many people only turn to God when something terrible happens to them when in actuality people should turn to God for all things in their lives, the good and the bad, not just when something
does not go as planned.
9/25/2013 11:49:21 AM

sorrynotsorry
I surmise that deep within our society, there are numerous people across the US that do indeed believe that God can and will punish us if we displease Him. I'm hesitant to say that Modern-day Puritans still
hold a belief in God's wrath, if the Modern-day Puritan has the same beliefs as they did 400 years ago, or if the 'Modern-day Puritans' even exists. However, a great example that this belief still exists firmly
within our society is the Westboro Baptist Church. They claim to spread the word of God in that everyone and anyone that doesn't believe in God's anger will go to hell. They've made numerous appearances
on the news and various media, picketing funerals of soldiers that have died in action, and proclaiming their hatred for 'fags' and America. It puzzles me how they can twist natural disasters and tragedies
into a form of God's own anger. But simply put, I do believe that the belief in God and punishment still exists deep within our society.
9/25/2013 3:42:21 PM

The Witness
It seems to be that whenever there the president or any authoritative figure appears in public to present a speech, it is always ended with "God bless America." How can America claim God or ask God for his
blessing anymore when America has obviously left its Christian values that it was supposedly built upon? In my opinion, behind the scenes, America has abandoned God but people find it comforting to think
that we haven't so we continue asking God for his blessing but we don't follow his word.
I've started off point. Have the puritans' values influenced America today? No, they haven't. Not in my experience. Science has advanced enough to the point that it is now supposedly "disproving God" so no
one blames natural disasters on God anymore (this is excluding those extreme religious people). I believe that science backs up God but not theoretical science like the Big Bang theory and the Earth being
billions of years old. The science proves how things happen but not why. Take water for example. When a liquid freezes what happens? It gets more dense than its liquid form and sinks when placed in itself.
Not water. Ice floats when placed in water. We can explain how that happens. The atomic structure expands and it's volume increases which makes it less dense. The science does not explain why however.
Think about it. If ice did not float then what would happen to all those marine creatures living under the surface of the water?
Again, I've gotten off track. Does America still believe that scientific phenomena is a sign of God's displeasure? Again, no. And again, most turn to science for their reason of how disastrous events happen. I'm
sure you can infer my position on the subject. We explain how but what about the why?
9/25/2013 3:47:26 PM

The Witness
@WrestlingChampSosa03 I agree with your opinion on the bad decisions people make and it not being God's decision but theirs. Too many people can not stand the thought of being responsible for their own
decisions and actions. I witness day-to-day people turning to god or other people in anger and making them their own personal scape goats. Often times, people will confuse other humans for God. He gave us
free will for a reason. What bad people do is not because of God. It is because of their decisions.
9/25/2013 4:17:33 PM

D'Squarius Greene Jr.
@sorrynotsorry, You are right that it is no longer a part of our society, and it is a shame that some people that do still hold to that belief are so extreme, like the Westboro Baptist Church, that they protest
our fallen soldiers' funerals. It casts a bad light on not only Baptists, but pious people everywhere. Remember that every religion has it's radicals.
9/25/2013 4:19:31 PM
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The Witness
@Table That was short and to the point. I like it. But I have to say, you listed "cancer" and "flunking" and "God crying" but what about when good things happen? Do you believe that we turn and thank God
when things go our way or just continue on our lives until something bad does happen and then turn back to God? Just wondering.
9/25/2013 4:22:56 PM
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The Witness
@Lola I agree with your opinion of the Puritans. They probably viewed every little event as either a blessing of God or a punishment. And those that we're affected by the natural disasters, what do you think
they thought? Maybe they found or even projected onto their lives some reason for it happening even if it was not necessarily true. I think we still do that to some extent today. If things do not go how we
planned, we tend to project onto the situation a reason. Doesn't mean the reason is true but we create it anyway.
9/25/2013 4:28:34 PM

Harry Potter
@sorrynotsorry I agree that Westboro Baptist Church is an example of the Puritan values still in practice today. They are very extreme in their beliefs that God punishes people for their sins, like the Puritans
were. For example, they said that 9/11 happened because God was angry with America. So, even though the Bible says that bad things happen for other reasons than to punish people, there are people in
America today who still believe that. I don't think most people are as extreme as Westboro Baptist Church, though.
9/25/2013 4:32:55 PM

Lola
@the witness I agree that many Americans explain the "how" with scientific observation and theories but I think that the "why" can only be explained with religion and that is why many Americans, though
they know the scientific reasons for natural disasters, still place God behind them because He is the reason WHY these things occur. I also agree with you in thinking that we, as a country not as individuals,
have lost a lot of our Christian values and only call on God when we need Him but do not follow through on His word.
9/25/2013 5:27:09 PM

Not Michaela Banks
@The Witness I agree that we do have science to disprove and prove scientific phenomenon, and while it is not plaster across the newspaper headlines "GOD HATES AMERICANS: HE SENDS HURRICANE" I
believe that our human souls long for a more relatable, personal explanation. I've heard people, to this day, say God is punishing them. It's all too common that parents of children with disabilities feel as if
they've done something wrong, and this is Gods punishment. There are scientific reasonings behind this, but where does this guilt come from? Where do these thoughts come from? Yes, you guessed it, the
Puritans. Now, we don't relate perfect religion with the Puritans (and there is no perfect religion ), but I believe over the years it has been simplified down into the fact that our human selves cannot be
sastified with the scientific knowledge we are exposed to.
9/25/2013 6:01:22 PM

Mr. Fluffypants
So this whole god and punishment deal is really simple ,because since man grew an imagination they made up something to blame for all the problems they were having. When you only have a spear to hunt
with and have tons of predators compared to today you become kinda of desperate and lose hope. So the answer to this is to make up a higher being of some kind and blame the being. then you to preform
some act or duty to try to please him ,this gives you hope. So that was back when we did not have people called scientists who want to do experiments on everything that pops up in their head. The more
discoveries the scientists made ,the more God became irrelevant to the dis pleasures of mankind. As of right now no we do not believe that God is the cause of all our problems. Sure some Americans due
,but if the president had a crisis he would turn to a scientist ,not a priest ,because not everyone is the same religion and some people of the same religion would not be satisfied. If this does not satisfy you
then think about what they say on they news when a disaster happens ,not that some religion's god came down and cursed us ,but that the tectonic plates shifted or that the conditions were just right for the
storm.
9/25/2013 6:54:45 PM

Mr. Fluffypants
@D'Squarius Greene Jr., so I like the name ,but let's be honest if something happens that is any type of disaster the first response you receive from the media is and science. Shootings for instance ,when
there is a shooting the media says the police are looking into his life and other things that could have changed his mental state. Yes I do believe people pray when there is a disaster ,but the act of people
praying never effects Americans as a whole ,because it does not solve anything besides give you hope.
9/25/2013 7:11:19 PM

Mr. Fluffypants
@Table, people turn to god in those situations ,because the have nowhere else to turn to. If you have a cancer that can not be treated ,then you turn to god as a last resort ,because you have nothing else to
hope for. God is normally always your last resort if nothing else works and if you do become treated for cancer it is with today's technology.
9/25/2013 7:31:48 PM

Mr. Fluffypants
@Uwouldwant2know, you are speaking my language ,everything today is explained through science and technology. I also think that people just use God as a plan B in case the normal American technical
response does not pan out.
9/25/2013 8:09:39 PM

The Thinker
I do think that these Puritan beliefs are still woven into the American society today. Whenever something major or catastrophic happens to someone or the country the first thing people always ask is "why?",
and they do not just ask this they scream it and ask "What did I do?", it is always "What did I do to deserve this?". I do think the idea that natural disasters or any catastrophe is because God is upset with us is
often thought of in our society. For example during 9-11 the most common thing you would hear is "What did we do to deserve this?". It was a cry and a plea for answers, it was a question to God as to what
we have done to displease Him. I feel like I am being repetitive but it is true, we always ask the same things whenever something bad happens to us. I know I have even caught myself asking it sometimes.
Now where I think the public gets confused is whether or not God is punishing or testing us. It is mostly taken in the thought of a punishment until we have learned and become stronger because of our test.
9/25/2013 8:19:51 PM

The Thinker
@Lola I agree with you for the most part. I think that whether or not we escape a catastrophe or not is our way of Gods punishment or forgiveness, it is the modern form of what the Puritans thought. As a
society though I still think many people will see their problems as punishments by God and a sign that they need to turn their lives around. Yes, we have scientific explanations for most everything now but
what if that is just God's way of giving people who are not as strong in faith an answer? As a whole I do think that you are right, a modern view on the Puritans beliefs is whether or not we make it out of hard
situations or not.
9/25/2013 8:31:28 PM

The Thinker
@Harry Potter I completely agree with you! People do still think that God is punishing them. I think that many people do look at what they are tested with as a punishment not simply as a test. Anywhere you
go people always look to God when times get hard, even if that is not what they are used to doing.
9/25/2013 8:42:26 PM

The Thinker
@D'Squarius Greene Jr. I can understand what you are saying. We do always seem to call on God more when we are in need of help and guidance rather than when everything is going well for us. I do not
however think that since we do not think of Him everyday the same way when we are in trouble that He gets mad with us. I do not think that He would punish us because we do not think of Him constantly
everyday, I feel He knows deep inside that we are thankful and care about what he has blessed us with.
9/25/2013 8:52:20 PM
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Devils Advocate
I personally do not believe that it is still a part of the American psyche, when some thing horrible happens we do pray to god for strength and peace of mind. We as a country do not believe that god is
punishing us for our collective sins, that is far too pagan of a tradition. No we explain it scientifically with reason and thought but still do pray to god to send us deliverance. If we truly believed that natural
disasters and the like were the work of god we would pray for forgiveness for our sins, but no we pray for strength in our time of need.
`the Puritan leaders preached this gospel to manipulate and control the church goers to be active hard working citizens for the colony. if u examine their believes from predestination to the belief in natural
disasters caused by gods wrath you can see how the puritan leaders could easily manipulate the people.
i personally am an atheist but i respect all of your opinions on god. But when some of you say we as Americans or the such i find it disturbing that you believe that america is a homogenous group of
Christians. First off their are hundreds of diverse religions and ethnicity's in America, secondly with in Christianity there are many separate branches and sects of Christianity. So to some people gods wrath
may be the cause of the disaster, or it may be some one like me who finds more credence in the scientific answers.
9/25/2013 9:13:56 PM

Riotous fist.
@lolan "unlike the Puritans, we now know and understand that God is a loving God and does not want to destroy his people but wants to create an everlasting bond with them but at the time the Puritans
greatly feared God and saw Him as a more punitive and harsh God."
the reason we now see god as a loving and caring god is because of the great awaking, which removed all the old trappings of Puritanism and replaced it with religion we now know today
9/25/2013 10:02:35 PM

@The Witness
"God bless America." How can America claim God or ask God for his blessing anymore when America has obviously left its Christian values that it was supposedly built upon?
Devils Advocate
You make a very good point but, theres always a but isn't there. Our Bill Of rights says that people have the freedom to practice any religion they want, yes. So wouldn't you say that our country was founded
on no one religion. Yes the founding fathers were religious men and were more than likely Christians, but we as a country were not built on religious values. Our law dictates that their must be a separation
between church and state therefor our country was not build on religious principles at all and provides that we do not mix our laws with religious law or ideas. Unfortunately for this is not held up as strictly
as it should due to the passing of laws based of lawmakers religions but i digress.
9/25/2013 10:15:51 PM

Chris Hahn
In my honest opinion, you do not see the same Judeo-Christian values in modern day America as you would notice in a Puritan society during colonial times. Puritan ideals weren't the ideals that pushed
America into becoming a united country, the many bright philosophies of that time that built the foundations for America were the contributing factors. However, to say religion played no part whatsoever in
the founding of our nature would be false, but the Puritan radicalism that put Christianity into an obsessive order of God-fearing, oblivious individuals is not evident in the thought processes of our founding
fathers or any other philosophies that contributed to the founding of America. Furthermore, America as a society back then wouldn't have had the slightest bit of progression that we enjoy today. I am a
Christian man, but the Puritan values were flawed and dont truly have a place in society today.
9/26/2013 10:31:46 AM

Not Michaela Banks
@The Thinker I completely agree with you. The values are woven into our culture subtly. Why do we ask "Why?", if we can back it up with scientific evidence. It's not that we see everyday people saying "God
is punishing me because I disobeyed him!" or "God is punishing me and I don't live on the hill, I am going to hell!" I think it's way more subtle than that. It's just the fact that it is a unifying force to ask "What
did we do to deserve this?"
9/26/2013 1:46:59 PM

nopietns
I do not believe this is a dominating thought in American Culture, if it was we wouldn't try to predict the weather. Also I do not think storms would be as large if they were meant to target a precise person.
9/26/2013 2:55:24 PM

Uwouldwant2know
@Chris Haun I totally agree with about the fact that Puritans and their morals were not what made America into the free country it is today, but I would say in a tiny underlining that the basics of Puritan
values, that are usually similar with all types of Christian values, do have a very small place in our society. Yes we rely on things like science, but I would also say that every time there is some sort of crazy
disaster we do either "praise God" for not having everything taken away, or we ask why God let this happened. So I think it has a place in society... Just a very small, and "only needed every hurricane", type
of place.
9/26/2013 3:02:01 PM
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Devils Advocate
@chris Hahn I agree completely, the puritanical believes play a very small part in our psyche today.
Now some could argue that our American work ethic comes from the puritan work ethic but I feel that it comes more from an American desire to excel and achieve. If you think about it we are all decedents
of determined hard working people. Most of our ancestors came from the old world and tamed the American wilderness the sheer strength and determination. I think that this is self evident in our nation
now. I feel that the desire to explore, to expand is ingrained and bred in to the psyche of Americans. but I have strayed off topic.
Again @ The Thinker I agree with your statement "Puritan ideals weren't the ideals that pushed America into becoming a united country, the many bright philosophies of that time that built the foundations
for America were the contributing factors." Our Bill of Rights states that we have the right to practice any religion we wish. I feel that if the puritan ideas held any sway in the writing of this document,
Catholicism, Quakerism; and all other sects of Christianity not Puritan would be outlawed. The puritan people were very harsh and intolerant of differing ideas, people, and religions. If the puritan ideals had
sway currently nearly every thing would be outlawed and many people would be exiled or tortured for their ideas and lifestyles. So I quite thankful that the pertain ideals are not evident in our Constitution
or other governmental documents.
9/26/2013 3:17:16 PM

Uwouldwant2know
@nopietns I totally agree with you about the fact that Americans try to predict the weather, so Puritan thought is not upfront in the brain area. I didn't even think about how giant storms and weather factors
would have to be for a whole group of people and how it would not be able to be a single person cause. I think that is an awesome and very valid point! I totally did not think of that so kudos to you!
9/26/2013 3:35:32 PM

Table
@the witness I can't say whether or not anyone else does it, but when something positive happens in my life, I turn to God and say thank you, when something negative happens in my life I look at myself and
think of what I did myself, not that "God's punishing me." And that goes with everything.
9/26/2013 3:46:32 PM

Table
@Mr. Fluffypants, Yes I agree with you and of course I personally would turn to God if I had cancer, but, I wouldn't be the one blaming it on God himself saying "Why did you do this to me?"
9/26/2013 3:57:07 PM

contra
@Mr. Fluffypants I couldn't disagree more. Just because we do not immediately turn to religion des not mean we as a country don't belive god is to blame. the reson so many people turn to scientist first is
because we wish to discover why these things happen. It does not mean we don't believe it is gods will that they happen. Religion and science do and should coexist together. Science to inform us on how god
shapes our lives and religion to help guide us and figure out the cause of god displeasure.
Take what "the witness said. "he science proves how things happen but not why. Take water for example. When a liquid freezes what happens? It gets more dense than its liquid form and sinks when placed in
itself. Not water. Ice floats when placed in water. We can explain how that happens. The atomic structure expands and it's volume increases which makes it less dense. The science does not explain why
however." this is just one way that scientific principles can and do describe the vessels that god's will and judgment take.
now on the subject of earth quakes being gods tool against the sinners. I fee that god does not punish whole areas of land like that,it is not becoming of god to punish a whole region of people who may not
all be sinners. But like the puritans belief that if you were sick it was a sign of gods displeasure I can understand the individual targeting of sinners.
Now you may say that it is from a virus that you contracted. But whose to say god didn't allow your immune system to falter and allow a virus to attack and take over your cells. I feel that Religion and
science are very closely related if you understand the way they can interact in to enhance your religious beliefs they can enhance your understanding of god and the universe and every ones role in this
world.
9/26/2013 4:03:05 PM

Table
@Indian Princess I could not agree with you more, there is a lot of people today that blame God for what "He has done" but don't thank Him enough when something good happens in life.
9/26/2013 4:03:41 PM

Harry Potter
@nopietns I see what you're saying, but I think that even though we have science to explain and predict weather, many people still believe that it is caused because God is angry with people. Like The
Witness said, science explains the "how" but not the "why." I think the Puritans were more considered with why natural disasters and tragedies happened as opposed to how. So, I think that even though we
have scientific explanations now, there is still a part of it that is open to everyone's personal beliefs and opinions.
9/26/2013 4:14:56 PM

Mr. THE TACO
I think these Puritan beliefs no longer play a dominant role in our society today. And I actually find it ironic that the Puritans would follow a belief that so closely resembled the pagan beliefs that they had
tried so hard to destroy. The ancient polytheistic religions like those of ancient Greece, Rome, and the Celts all believed that the Gods made their will known through nature. In most cases the pagans saw an
earthquake as a sign of an angry God just as Mr. Prince did. So the question comes up, why did the Puritans of all people decide to follow this ancient pagan belief but at the same time ban Christmas? Well it
could have been a strategy of the rich to use fear of the natural world as a tool to keep the people fearing God and under their control. But it could also have been the simple fact that people did not know
about the world around them and used the only thing they understood, religion, to explain it.
9/26/2013 4:33:13 PM

sorrynotsorry
@Lola
I do agree on your standpoint on the situation. In the past, the Puritans weren't as knowledgeable as many of us nowadays, so they saw themselves as meer pawns to God's hand. Yet, over the years, the
ambiance and image of God has molded into a more loving God that we seek comfort to and confide in, especially during our times of need, which then leads into my next comment.
@D'Squarius Greene Jr.
I do agree, and it couldn't have been better said that many of us only seem to turn to God during our hardships. Other than that, however, we push God into the back of our minds until we need to comfort
ourselves once more.
9/26/2013 4:44:57 PM

Mr. THE TACO
@The Witness I agree that science can teach how things operate or what they are made of but the question of why something exists in the exact way that is needed is very difficult for science to explain.
Take gravity for example, if it was a little bit more powerful then the universe would be a very different place with every galaxy flying at eachother and stars would eat all but the most distant and desolate
planets. If gravity was just a bit weaker there would be no stars at all or even any structure to the universe, just a thin cloud of gas. Therefore who can really say how it is possible that the perfect amount of
gravity exists in order for the universe to run like clockwork the way it does. For gravity and all things, there must be something else besides science running the show.
9/26/2013 4:51:37 PM

sorrynotsorry
@Table
I do agree with your statement that people almost always turn to God during our times of need, whether asking for strength or asking for forgiveness, and I admire how you generalized the prompt and
simplified how the belief is embedded in our modern day society.
9/26/2013 5:01:50 PM

Mr. THE TACO
@Chris Hahn I completely agree the cold intolerant policies of the Puritans would not have allowed for the colonies to unite together when they differed in so many ways with religion being one of the most
prominent. The Protestant culture which fostered intolerance and indifference would have kept the colonies from banding together under a common cause.
9/26/2013 5:18:11 PM

Mr. THE TACO
@nopietns I agree that sending a giant storm or a tsunami is not the best way to punish a specific person or group of people. But that is why I believe that God takes a more personal approach to getting his
point across by showing that he is there to teach and not to harm. Instead of wiping out a huge community with a storm to demonstrate his anger I believe that he comes to each of us in some way to show us
how to get back on track.
9/26/2013 5:29:15 PM

Uwouldwant2know
@Table I partially disagree. I think that with things as big as cancer we do tend to ask "Why God?", but I think that with things like flunking a test, we tend to push that more on ourselves and wrap ourselves
in our won little roll of frustration. Also, bigger things like earthquakes, we first use science as the big explanation.
9/26/2013 5:56:37 PM

Student
As we have studied the Puritan work ethic and its effect on the American psyche, I do believe how the above expressed belief in God and punishment is still part of the American belief system. I believe so
because as human beings, all the beliefs come from our beliefs, cultures, customs, and traditions. These go way back to the start of where it began. Therefore, Americans still use this belief. We started as a
Christian based country. The Christian based settlers sailed from England to America to flee from religious persecutions. The Puritans were one of them. The foundation of this built the American people as
who they are and what they believe.
9/26/2013 5:57:12 PM

Student
I completely agree with @D'Squarius Greene Jr. There are also people who only thank God and refer back to him when life is going great but put him on the back-burner when there is a struggle occurring in
their life. People should praise God in both the good and bad times. There is always something to thank God for. Waking up very morning is a blessing from God but people take it for granted.
9/26/2013 6:09:29 PM

Student
I completely agree with @Harry Potter on the fact about how sometimes even people who aren't very religious turn to God for answers when they're going through a hard time. Some people might not be as
religious as other people might be or might not even have a religion but we all tend to use God's name. Whether we are monotheistic, polytheistic, or even agnostic we refer back to God, a god or gods for
help.
9/26/2013 6:19:48 PM

Student
I also completely agree with @The Thinker about how a tragic event or a struggle that hits us hard both emotionally and physically is mostly taken in the thought of a punishment until we have learned and
become stronger because of our test. When it is a test, God opens a door for us for better moments even though we can not see how that is coming up ahead. God only puts as much struggle on a person
because he knows how much s/he can bare. Sometimes when you are fighting through a struggle for so long, it also could be a test to allow you to realize how you can not fix everything by yourself and that
you need to just let go and let God take care of it for you. When we make it and take that opened door, that is when we realize how much we have gone through and why it had happened.
9/26/2013 6:34:28 PM

Beattiiyz
I don't believe this is part of America's belief system any more. Back in puritan and colonial times they worshipped the bible and saw disasters as a punishment, but they didn't have the technology that we do
today. Today we can predict when some of the natural disasters are going to happen unlike the puritans and if they were meant to be a punishment from god why would it be so predictable? When Moses led
the slaves of Egypt to the promise lands, the slaves whined and complained and had no faith in god, so god punished them by sending them in circles. He still kept them fed and alive but prolonged their
journey to make them have faith in him. I don't really see god punishing someone by a huge disaster but when things happen it strikes fear into people and causes them to turn to someone for hope and
courage.
9/26/2013 6:36:18 PM

Beattiiyz
@MR. THE TACO Definitely something that can be argued and makes perfect sense. Through out all history people manipulate others to gain something and in the new world I'm sure power went a very long
way.
9/26/2013 6:40:44 PM

Harry Potter
@contra I completely agree! What you said reminded me of the quote by Einstein "science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." Neither the Bible nor science can explain everything
about how the world works but together they can. I noticed a few people said that America doesn't still have the Puritan beliefs of God and punishment because we know more about science now, but I
disagree. The Bible isn't a science textbook. I believe that science and God are two aspects of the same explanation to phenomena, not two different explanations. I agree with everyone who said that God is
testing us and not punishing us, but there are people who believe that God is punishing them, even though they also have science. That's why I believe that the idea of God punishing people is still a part of
the American belief system. Not everyone thinks it, but it's definitely still there.
9/26/2013 6:42:35 PM
Great comments and back and forth debate. Couple of cimments, and a questions or two:

MrsFrancis
@sorrynotsorry - thank you for bringing in fact and not just opinion to this discussion. Bringing in evidence such as Westboro is an excellent way to try to answer the question.
@ The Witness and everyone: Was America founded as a Christian nation or for Christian values? Who remembers from their reading why Jamestown Colony was founded? Are we to dismiss the Virginia colony
and say that America only started in Plymouth?
@uwouldwanttoknow and MrFluffypants and The Witness - and some others who say we and the president rely more on scientists than a priest - what about these very real headlines of recent years @NotMichaela banks - you check these out too:
Hagee Says Hurricane Katrina Struck New Orleans Because It Was ‘Planning A Sinful’ ‘Homosexual Rally’
thinkprogress.org/.../
Religious conservatives claim Katrina was God's omen, punishment for the United States
mediamatters.org/.../133804
Pat Robertson: Haiti "Cursed" After "Pact to the Devil"
www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-12017-504083.html
Glenn Beck - God Punished Japan With Earthquake, Tsunami
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLDYIy6Epdc
Westboro Baptist Church: 'Thank God for the violent shooter' in Arizona
and I guess you get the point.
Why, APUSHERS, oh why do leaders of our nation believe this?
9/26/2013 6:42:54 PM

And this article:
MrsFrancis
God bathes Boykins behind the ears
jivewaternews.blogspot.com/.../...oykins-bath.html!/2012/08/god-gives-boykins-bath.html
9/26/2013 6:48:19 PM

Beattiiyz
@Devils Advocate You being an atheist actually proves your view on this. As you stated there is so much diversity and differences in America today compared to back then, not to mention the subsections of
Christianity, that people probably don't know what to believe. A natural disaster in someone's eyes is punishment, but for someone like yourself, the scientific proof deters some feelings of punishment.
9/26/2013 6:49:47 PM

Devils Advocate
@Beattiiyz Off course it deters the feelings of punishment. If anything i find it awe-inspiring what mother nature can do to us humans so easily without even trying. Of course i feel horrible for those who are
affected by it. But honestly i do feel like sometimes people who are bad and twisted often get what they deserve so im actually quiet on the fence.
9/26/2013 6:58:06 PM

Beattiiyz
@The Thinker I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one man. Your 9-11 example doesn't really fit with the topic in my opinion. It wasn't a freak accident that 9-11 happened. The planes were
purposely hijacked and crashed into the towers. It wasn't really a punishment from God. The crying out "why" may have been to God, but really the why didn't need and answer from god or science. It was
people who were upset with America and attacked and believed that because of this they made their god happy. If you think about it God did keep people safe and helped many survive the disaster, but
sometimes things happen and lives are lost.
9/26/2013 6:58:32 PM

9-11? Here's a former presidential candidate commenting on that:
MrsFrancis
Michele Bachmann: 9/11, Benghazi Were God's 'Judgment,' So We Must Hold Day Of Prayer On Sept. 11
www.huffingtonpost.com/.../...1-god_n_3254568.html
9/26/2013 7:02:54 PM

Devils Advocate
@MrsFrancis
you reminded me to add something thank you
@ Student
"The Christian based settlers sailed from England to America to flee from religious persecutions. The Puritans were one of them."
I disagree. The only groups to come to the Americas to escape religious persecution were the Catholics, and the Puritans. the rest of the settlers were fine with their religion they just came here to gain
Money, land, and power. Your statement makes it seem like all of the colonist who came here were fleeing religious persecution .
And no we were not founded as a Christian nation but we were founded with some Christian values. But these values were not always Puritan yes there are still remnants of their values your articles prove
this. However i feel that this belief in gods wrath being the cause for natural disasters is manly in the rare extremely religious and conservative sects of Christianity which do not accurately represent the
beliefs of Christianity as a whole.
ON the subject of the Westboro Baptist Church, they are incredibly offensive and rude people. In my opinions they are not even Christians. Christ preached peace and love they preach hatred. I find them so
disgusting i can not stand them. They picket U.S. military members burials because they are "protesting" "Gay Rights". I think the fact that God hasn't smited them as proof that Earthquakes
are NOT the work of God, and a Token of His Displeasure.
9/26/2013 7:14:50 PM

Ms. Brightside
I believe that most people in America do not still attribute natural disasters to the work of God. This is mostly, in my opinion, Old Testament mentality. In the day of the Puritans, preachers pounded God's
wrath into the minds of sinners and believers alike. Nowadays, in most denominations of Christian churches, there is more of a focus on New Testament ideals such as "Jesus loves you" and less of a focus on
sermons such as "Sinners in the hands of an angry God". Therefore, when there were natural disasters in the olden days, the people believed it was the work of their vengeful God. If you think about it, with
the ideas they believed, it was not an illogical conclusion. However, now that we are in the 21st century, a more civilized age, emphasis is put on a kind and forgiving God. It is no longer rational to believe
that God is punishing us and rather to believe that these things are a test of our strength and faith.
9/26/2013 7:27:47 PM

MrsFrancis
Just for hee haws:
Who said this?
"Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been
the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites."
9/26/2013 7:29:10 PM

Devils Advocate
@MrsFrancis Jefferson.
9/26/2013 7:31:49 PM

MrsFrancis
@MsBrightside:
read the links posted just above your post. Maybe that is not "most" people but it sure is important, educated peeps! What say you now, Brightside?
9/26/2013 7:33:20 PM

MrsFrancis
@Devilsadvocate - correct!
You get extra credit --Anyone surpised our Founding Dather had this opinion of Christianity?
9/26/2013 7:38:00 PM

Ms. Brightside
@ MrsFrancis:
Everybody is entitled to their own opinions but not to their own facts- according to poll results on livescience.com only 29% of Americans believe God would use natural disasters to punish a whole society for
the sins of a few. That is certainly not a majority of the nation though that does not discount those people as being unimportant, for sure.
Disclaimer: I make no assurance as to the validity of that poll; it's just what I found in my research
9/26/2013 7:40:49 PM

Devils Advocate
YAY!!!! i Love google and being addicted to this!!!
And no thomas jefferson was not really a Christian and was a proponent of the separation of church and state.
I concur with you strictly in your opinion of the comparative merits of atheism and demonism, and really see nothing but the latter in the being worshipped by many who think themselves Christians.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Richard Price, Jan. 8, 1789 (Richard Price had written to TJ on Oct. 26. about the harm done by religion and wrote "Would not Society be better without Such religions? Is Atheism
less pernicious than Demonism?")
9/26/2013 7:43:07 PM

MrsFrancis
@MsBrightsides - excellent rebuttal!
9/26/2013 7:43:28 PM

Devils Advocate
Phenomena such as earthquakes and hurricanes actually prove beneficial for mankind. Planetary scientists, among others, affirm that events such as hurricanes and earthquakes must occur for planet Earth
to maintain the delicate balances of atmospheric and other environmental conditions mandatory for human life to exist and survive.
Without earthquakes, for example, life-essential nutrients would “erode off the continents and accumulate in the oceans” and eventually cause land creatures to starve. Tectonic activity helps recycle those
nutrients back onto the continents. (www.reasons.org/.../are-earthquakes-god-s-fault)
@ Everyone, how do we know that it is gods displeasure according to this web cite earth quakes are essential for life by replenishing nutrients in the soil. "Phenomena such as earthquakes and hurricanes
actually prove beneficial for mankind." so why would people these days believe that something quite useful for life would be a sign of gods wrath at our sins?
9/26/2013 7:55:26 PM

MrsFrancis
@Devilsadvocate:
Preach it!
9/26/2013 8:04:50 PM

petunia
I believe America, as a country in this generation, has mixed beliefs about many things. Whether it's religion or science, there are always other opinions people may offer. Natural disasters are explained by
many as shifts in plate tectonics while hurricanes and tornadoes seem to be caused by wind. However, when things like this happen, we focus over the deaths or destruction the natural disaster had caused.
Regardless in which ever way we as individuals mourn, typically the president may make a statement regarding God, since it's spoken in the Pledge of Allegiance and written on the currency, "In God we
Trust." So, while our country still follows what may appear to be Puritan beliefs, it is a "melting pot" country where many people are entitled to different opinions. However, I do believe many of the past
beliefs from the founders of this nation are still currently used throughout the most of the government's systems.
9/26/2013 8:09:36 PM

Chris Hahn
@D'Squarius Greene Jr: That can be very flawed (regarding your first statement to the passage) because would we have such a culturally and ethnically diverse society as we do today if such Puritan values
were still evident? The Puritans didn't just want uniformity within their own religious sect, but any peoples they came into contact with MUST convert. They slaughtered nations of Native American tribes who
refused to recognize the power of God and seek his divine forgiveness. would so many immigrants choose to come today at the risk of being forced from their religion? And to say that we as Americans would
have our basic rights/freedoms if Puritan values were still encroaching on our lives would be heavily faulty. Freedom of Speech would be turned into the Freedom to Speak only of the Greatness of God.
Freedom of the Press? Biased articles that anything or anyone opposed to the Puritan values should be exiled. Would the technology we have today be so advanced? I agree in Freedom of Religion 100%, and
it's truly one of the things that makes America great, we have such a blend to where no given set of religious values can completely entangle our lives. It allows us the freethinking we enjoy today.
9/26/2013 8:12:17 PM

petunia
@MsBrightside Nice comment! I definitely agree with the Old Testament puritans vs. our country's way of promoting more of the New Testament beliefs. I didn't think about this when I wrote my response but
I wish I did! Our country focuses more on the equality and love of the people rather than focusing on the wrath of God and who's considered better in His eyes.
9/26/2013 8:13:17 PM

Ms. Brightside
@D'Squarius Greene Jr.: (original comment)
You make a valid point when you say that people turn to God in tragic situations. However, I see it more as a reassuring idea; they find comfort in the fact that God is standing by them during times of need.
They say that God makes everything happen for a reason, rather than believing that they are being punished for their sins. This is a different idea completely, one that does not seem to have been passed
down from Puritan beliefs
9/26/2013 8:15:29 PM

petunia
@Student I couldn't agree with you more. I really feel like the older beliefs of our country still plays a role in the thoughts and actions we take today during natural disasters. I feel like our country is really
grounded into the roots of our original Puritan beliefs, however they modernized it so it won't be as harsh as it was back then.
9/26/2013 8:15:48 PM

MrsFrancis
@petunia: good comments!
@crhishahn: excellent analysis, great logic in all of your comments.
I particularly like "Freedom of Speech would be turned into the Freedom to Speak only of the Greatness of God. "
9/26/2013 8:18:09 PM

petunia
@HarryPotter Excellent comment, I forgot about how many people always think that if something wrong had happened they always immediately wonder what they did to deserve it, which shows they believe
it came from a higher power rather than it coming from a scientific or society point of view. It shows how our country still fears the wrath of God in a certain way rather than the harsh way the Puritans
feared it. It shows a vulnerable side to our country because many countries don't have the beliefs our American society has, so it shows how we believe things may have happened because we have done
something wrong or something right to deserve it happening to us.
9/26/2013 8:19:29 PM

Ms. Brightside
@petunia
You bring up a good point, mentioning the diverse beliefs of our nation. It seems that whatever can be said about the opinions of people in our country, the opposite can also be said. While it is true that
most people don't carry the Puritan ideals with them in this day and age, there will always be some that will.
9/26/2013 8:23:59 PM

Harry Potter
@DevilsAdvocate because according to the Bible, God knew everything that would happen in the world before he created it, so He planned for that. I don't really know, like I said before I don't really believe
that God punishes us for our sins with natural disasters, so it's just a guess of how other people might think.
9/26/2013 8:24:08 PM

devils Advocate
@chris Hans
I agree with you completely i said basically the same thing in one of my earlier comments. Also i feel that the gay rights movement woman's movement and civil rights movement would all have been
repressed and against the values of the puritan church.
9/26/2013 8:29:29 PM

devils Advocate
@ Harry Potter you are right but i highly doubt that god would coincide replenishing the Earth with punishing us for our sins. BTW i got that article from a Christian website encouraging me to believe in the
power and love of god.
9/26/2013 8:32:39 PM

Ms. Brightside
@Chris Hahn
Your defense of the freedom of religion is admirable, it has always been one of the rights I am most grateful of. You also bring up a wonderful point by stating the fact that although some people may harbor
the harsh Puritan punishment ideas, if our society did as a whole it would not be nearly as advanced as it is today. Indeed, if we all still worshipped in the fashion of the Puritans our nation would not be the
land of the free and the home of the brave but rather the land of the devote and the home of the oppressed. This is not an insult to the Puritans but rather an expression of my belief that no one religion
should reign but rather the mix of beliefs and cultures in America is what makes us such a successful and spirited country.
9/26/2013 8:42:43 PM

Contra
@ DevilsAdvocate and @ Harry Potter
i feel that when god sends us earth quakes and other natural disasters he is not necessarily trying to punish us for our sins, more of reminding us of the absolute control over our lives he has. Additionally i
feel that when he sends the earth quakes he not only reminds us of our place but at the same time gives us the nutrients to replenish our soil and continue to let our species prosper under his good grace.
9/26/2013 8:43:50 PM

MrsFrancis
Wow , MsBrightside, just WOW.
These discussions are well researched, well thought out, and well written
9/26/2013 8:46:30 PM

Chris Hahn
I am going to clarify a few points, however. To define the nature of the "Absolute" or God, is entirely impossible, for it is everything in its eternal, undivided state. To be quite honest, no mind has, or ever
will be able to construct a suitable representation of God. In my opinion, the least erroneous of ways devised to represent my Christian God is a clean, blank sheet of paper. I perceive this paper, being blank
and unmarked, as every little thing that cannot be thought of, everything that can't be seen, felt, or limited by anything tangible, really. I believe that is essentially our God. Yet, when we begin to mark that
paper, it becomes flawed, and misconstrued ideas of what our God is become an entangling web of religious ideologies that flaw the paper. These ideologies and ideas are what we as humans use to
rationalize such natural events, well, I wouldn't per se include us as a modern society that hopefully knows better, but ancient, primeval, medieval, and Puritanical colonial societies that were bereft the
knowledge and technology to know any different. And to accept such thoughts and ideas into our modern society would be, quite simply, savagery and barbaric. We can all perceive God as we wish to
perceive him, but the Puritans chose a more archaic path of viewing God as a wrathful, vengeful being, opposed to the compassionate one most would choose to see today. The greatest philosophers
throughout time have realized this in some way, shape, or form and have contributed the fruitage of their transcendent genius to the need of greater knowledge. To accept the Puritans values of oppression
against the "Less Holy" would be spitting on the ideas of history's great thinkers. Some of which who died to give us the information they deemed necessary to be proven as common knowledge today. Might I
add that some may have very well been killed by such religious groups such as the Puritans, with their history of extremist measures against people who spoke against God in the slightest way.
9/26/2013 8:50:33 PM

Contra
@ms. brightside
i love your land of the devote and home of the oppressed
and i was about to add to that but i read the end of yours and you stated exactly what i was going to say. but i agree i feel that the "melting pot" of cultures and relgions makes America unique and unlike any
other country.
As Michel-guillaume Jean de Crevecoeur said "they are a mixture of English, Scotch, Irish, French, Dutch, German and Swedes. From this promiscuous breed, that race now called Ameicans have arisen..." it
was evident that our country would became a melting pot that as you so eloquently stated as a "mix of beliefs and cultures in America".
9/26/2013 8:53:32 PM

Chris Hahn
And I apologize Mrs. Francis for posting so late. but it took some time to sum that up into words.
9/26/2013 8:55:49 PM

Ms. Brightside
@MrsFrancis:
Thank you:) your opinion means a lot to me and might I add: thank you so much for your thoughtful assignments. You make us really think more than any other teacher this year and I know I'm not alone when
I say that APUSH is definitely my favorite class.
9/26/2013 9:13:27 PM

blackswan
America is a melting pot of culture and religion, so I guess it is a part of the American belief system. However, it is very literally "a part." The bible tells man that God sent his son as a token of his love. No
where in the New Testament, which is a better representation of current religious America, does it say God sent to the Earth a token of his displeasure. God sends natural disasters to unite his people. Sadly,
but honestly, the worst tragedies are the things that bring people closest to each other. The sins of man are inevitable, God knows that. Therefore, he does not send such tragedies as a token of his
displeasure of man's sin. Instead, God is revealing his power and strength through nature. He is giving life to the word humanity; the word most often spoken in vain. God wishes to bring his people closer to
him. Our own pledge of allegiance states, "One nation under God." The sins of man are the unholy bond between people. God does not wish to destroy the world because of its sin, rather to build it from its
strength and overcoming.
9/26/2013 9:33:33 PM

MrsFrancis
@contra Good insinuation of de Crevecouer into the conversation!
@ chrishahn no worries time does not run out until 7 am
@ blackswan interesting name don't recognize your email email me your name please
9/26/2013 9:47:10 PM

blackswan
@Harry Potter The bible says our sins have already been paid. Not after we die, but the moment we accept grace. How then, with so many
Christians in America who believe this fact, would this still be a part of our belief system? I understand that Puritans still exist, and honor some previous beliefs. However, the majority of America claims to
be saved in God's grace. An all forgiving God (which God is,) would not send a storm as a token of displeasure. Since that is what most Americans believe, I disagree that it is still part of the belief system.
Hardships are in place to strengthen faith, not to take notice of petty sin. All people sin, but all have a way out. Forgiveness is offered as a freedom.
9/26/2013 9:47:58 PM

blackswan
@Table Wow! You have slightly changed my opinion! I did not consider that it could still be in the belief system because people use God as a reason to explain everything. For many, God is simply an "excuse."
The fact that children say "its raining because God is crying," is a grand statement to include in your opinion. I suppose if people use God to explain good things, they must use him to explain bad too. Thank
you so much for helping me to develop an opinion for both sides!
9/26/2013 9:57:54 PM
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blackswan
@Contra, I definitely agree that God is reminding us of his power. Many people fail to recognize that having a healthy fear of God is an honorable way to obey him. The bible persistently conveys that fearing
God is the only way to love him. This does not mean he is punishing us for sin, but rather reminding us he is great and mighty! He is setting himself apart.
9/26/2013 10:01:19 PM
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Devils Advocate
@blackswan
But what about the puritan belief that god is displeased with humanities sins, is it still prevalent in the Culture of the united states? yes or no? i personally disagree, i feel that it may be part of the religious
beliefs of a few extremes like Westbourh Baptist Church, but is not a belief of Christianity as a whole.
9/26/2013 10:17:13 PM

Harry Potter
@blackswan I personally agree with you, but what I meant in my first comment is that I think there are a lot of people who misinterpret the Bible and think that God punishes people through natural
disasters. Sometimes I feel like there are many "Christians" who don't actually follow what the Bible says. I don't know if it's the majority or not, but I do think some people think that. As far as our sins being
forgiven the moment we accept grace, I also agree with you. I didn't word my first comment very well, but what I meant is that the consequence of how we lived our life is determined after we die, but the
actual price has already been paid.
9/26/2013 10:29:18 PM
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Devils Advocate
@blackswan
The bible says our sins have already been paid. Not after we die, but the moment we accept grace. How then, with so many
Christians in America who believe this fact, would this still be a part of our belief system?
How can you take this as a fact has it been proven? can you prove this in any way? if not than it is not a fact. your ideas are quite short sided. not saying they are bad just that they are not as encompassing
as they should be. Christianity is not a homogeneous mixture, in-fact it has many sects that are quite different from each other. So what one sect may believe as "fact' another may dismiss entirely. And
another point i have raised earlier, A storm or Earthquake may actually have many benefits. for example Phenomena such as earthquakes and hurricanes actually prove beneficial for mankind. Planetary
scientists, among others, affirm that events such as hurricanes and earthquakes must occur for planet Earth to maintain the delicate balances of atmospheric and other environmental conditions mandatory
for human life to exist and survive.
Without earthquakes, for example, life-essential nutrients would “erode off the continents and accumulate in the oceans” and eventually cause land creatures to starve. Tectonic activity helps recycle those
nutrients back onto the continents. (www.reasons.org/.../are-earthquakes-god-s-fault)
@ Everyone, how do we know that it is gods displeasure according to this web cite earth quakes are essential for life by replenishing nutrients in the soil. "Phenomena such as earthquakes and hurricanes
actually prove beneficial for mankind." so why would people these days believe that something quite useful for life would be a sign of gods wrath at our sins? I just completely disagree with what you say and
find many irregularities based off your opinion on religion and your statements not based off fact or observations.
9/26/2013 10:38:23 PM
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Night Owl
I believe that this greatly impacted today's society and how our government is run.
As Americans, we are rebellious at heart and, in colonial times, many came over here to find religious freedom. As Puritans, they had this specific believe that God's anger was expressed through things like
disease and natural disasters, but many others didn't like this believe that God was ALWAYS angry at them, that they could never be good enough. Therefore, colonial people changed that. In the Great
Awakening, there was a new belief sweeping the colonies that God was actually loving and cared for all of us. And how did they come to this conclusion, one may ask. I believe that people got tired of being
under the condemnation that God hates them and they have to do everything perfectly in order to enter into His kingdom (which caused the Puritans to have such good work ethic as they did).
This contributed to our government for freedom of religion and belief that you get to Heaven with only Grace. So, in a way, this belief work opposite into our culture in America, but without it, we would not
be the way we are or have the different rights and such a cultural mix as we do today.
9/27/2013 12:00:58 AM

Night Owl
@blackswan - I highly agree with your original statement. As a Christian, I believe what you said was true and you have the backing to prove it. God doesn't send these to torment us as a torturing device
because we are being obedient or working hard enough. God knows that we sin, and that we are not perfect. He created this world as a perfect place, with no flaws and no natural disasters. However, we
took advantage of this and turn against God, bringing sin, and everything bad, like diseases and natural disasters, into this world, so if anyone, we brought it on ourselves.
This just further proves my original statement that we went opposite from this belief, leading to the most commonly accepted theory in today's churches.
9/27/2013 12:10:42 AM

Who Knows...
I believe there is some truth to the statement that we as a nation, even today, still hold some of the beliefs the puritans instilled in us so very long ago. As I browsed through some of the comments, I saw
many people speaking about how we are quick to say that we have done something wrong to displease God, when we are handed a foul card in the game of life. In my opinion those students are correct;
these beliefs do float in the minds of millions of people throughout the nation. Why you might ask? Because our nation is in fact still being affected by the puritans' way of thinking, even today. If you were to
name one "bad" event in your everyday life, and think about possible reasons as to why that particular event may have occurred, I would almost guarantee that many people would make some sort of
connection with God and sin throughout their thought process. I did say; however, in my opening statement that I believed it was "somewhat true". Even though we do still hold some of the puritan beliefs, it
is starting to wane. Now we have science and technology to explain certain phenomena, and the idea that when bad events occur, God is punishing us for our sin, is slowly starting to drift away.
9/27/2013 12:12:29 AM

Night Owl
@Chris Hahn - I like how you touched on the Puritans drawing their beliefs from more medieval, or even barbaric, thinking. This is why I think many did not agree with them in this instance. America was
supposed to be a new place, a place to get away from the harsh thinking of government and other groups, much like the Puritans. It was a place to start over, not to be criticized that if anything bad happens
to you, God automatically hates you.
@MrsFrancis - I am just thoroughly amazed that, if they did what they said, and lived directly from the text in the Bible, where did they get that from? Noah's Ark? I am just wondering how they did not
realize that they did not understand at all the true love of God, which is clearly expressed in the bible.
9/27/2013 12:25:27 AM

Night Owl
@Beatiiyz - I disagree with how you explain your response. Our technology has nothing to do with the bible, which hasn't changed. Yes, we know the cause of earthquakes, from the shifts of tectonic plates,
but who are we today that God doesn't cause that?
Also, in ancient Egypt in the Exodus, the people disobeyed God and didn't have faith. God then made them wander in circles until everyone who participated died (of coarse they had children) in order to rid
God's people of the horrible sin that they committed. It is very true that God punishes people, but that is more in the Old Testament, when God was forming his people, before he sent his son. For example,
God burned the hole city of Sodom to the ground because of their disobedience. Also, Nosh's ark saved only a mere few from the worldwide flood. However, that is, and was in colonial times, completely
irrelevant because God sent his son in order to change all of that, which makes mainly the New Testament relevant on how we live our lives. This, I believe is where the Puritans, misunderstood.
@Mrsfrancis - I am starting to believe, from all of these comments and what you have said in class about this theory changing the psyche and work ethic, that it is very possible some of the Puritans may have
said this in order to make others work harder. What is your view on that??
9/27/2013 1:33:37 AM

World's Best Procrastinator
In some ways, I believe this belief is still evident among some people. For instance, some people blame God or question what they did to deserve such things when they are faced with problems such as
natural disasters, tragedies, illnesses, or even bearing disabled children. On the other hand, some people are optimistic about these occurrences and justify that God works in mysterious ways and that
certain things happen for a reason or for the greater good.
9/27/2013 4:56:54 AM

World's Best Procrastinator
@Table I totally agree with you! People definitely do turn to God during hard times. As soon as I read the prompt the first thing that came to mind was the concept of rain being God's tears.
9/27/2013 5:01:22 AM

World's Best Procrastinator
@Uwouldwant2know I agree with you in the sense that science does play a role in explaining how things occur, but I wouldn't say that this belief isn not a part of our society today. In my opinion, the "why"
can not be explained by science because you can question why to every explanation presented. For example, if given the answer to why something occurred one can simply say why did that cause that to
occur, and when presented with that answer one can ask again (if that makes sense). Which is why I believe this belief is still evident today because people turn to God for what is unexplainable by man.
9/27/2013 5:09:23 AM
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World's Best Procrastinator
@Beattiiyz You made a good point in my opinion! I didn't even consider the prediction of natural disasters. I believe that we are not able to predict God's works or plans and because we are able to predict
things like weather or the approaching of a natural disaster I would have to agree and say it can't be God's fault that these things happen. However, you presenting a story from the bible and stating that God
did in fact punish the unfaithful slaves by sending them in circles sort of contradicts your opinion that this belief does not exist in our society, because some people use the bible as guide and believe all of
the words printed among it's pages. Wouldn't that story come across them during their readings and cause them to adopt the very same belief that God does punish us due to his displeasure?
9/27/2013 5:21:56 AM
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World's Best Procrastinator
@MrsFrancis I just wanted to say that even though I did complete this assignment last minute (I fell asleep way too early) it was extremely interesting as well as entertaining, and I wish I had joined the
discussion earlier to be apart of the BIG debate!
9/27/2013 5:24:56 AM

The Witness
Wow I regret not checking this blog sooner, there's quite a few more comments than since I was last on. @Mrs. Francis I suppose I should I have been clearer in my statement of America losing its Christian
ways. I do not believe that America was founded by Christians but yes it was on Christian values...or at least certain ones. The bible was quoted to support slavery for example but the New Testament
preachings on peace and love were obviously ignored. Lately, gay rights has been the big issue. I don't believe it is right. Check Leviticus 18: 22, 20: 13, and Romans 1: 26-28. @the people against Westboro I
don't think they are going about this the right way either. Shoving the bible down people's throats is not how it's supposed to be done.
9/27/2013 6:19:51 AM
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MrsFrancis
@theWitness. Also Leviticus 17:21
9/27/2013 6:32:39 AM

Finalaity
What seems pecular to me is why the Puritan's devloped a belife in this idea that natural disasters are a token of gods wrath agianst sin. I understand that the Puritans took the bible literaly and it is filled
with instances of god punishing sinners (Sodem and gamora and many others), but preachers use sermons that explain occurances in the daily life of thier parisoners. what i want to know is where
earthquakes in new england that common that they would have to have a sermon about earth quakes.
9/27/2013 1:38:46 PM