CITY OF OREM
CITY COUNCIL MEETING
56 North State Street Orem, Utah
April 16, 2013
6:00 P.M. STUDY SESSION
CONDUCTING
Mayor James Evans
ELECTED OFFICIALS
Councilmembers Hans Andersen, Margaret Black, Karen A.
McCandless, Mark E. Seastrand, and Brent Sumner
APPOINTED STAFF
Bruce Chesnut, City Manager; Jamie Davidson, Assistant
City Manager; Greg Stephens, City Attorney; Karl Hirst,
Recreation Director; Charlene Crozier, Interim Library
Director; Sam Kelly, City Engineer, Steve Earl Deputy City
Attorney; Jason Bench, Planner, and Donna Weaver, City
Recorder
EXCUSED
Councilmember Mary Street
REVIEW OF AGENDA ITEMS
Mr. Stephens reviewed the changes to the agreement since the draft the Council received last week.
6:30 P.M. SPECIAL SESSION
CONDUCTING
Mayor James Evans
ELECTED OFFICIALS
Councilmembers Hans Andersen, Margaret Black, Karen A.
McCandless, Mark E. Seastrand, and Brent Sumner
APPOINTED STAFF
Bruce Chesnut, City Manager; Jamie Davidson, Assistant
City Manager; Greg Stephens, City Attorney; Karl Hirst,
Recreation Director; Charlene Crozier, Interim Library
Director; Sam Kelly, City Engineer, Steve Earl Deputy City
Attorney; Jason Bench, Planner, and Donna Weaver, City
Recorder
EXCUSED
Councilmember Mary Street
INVOCATION /
INSPIRATIONAL THOUGHT
Councilmember Mark Seastrand
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Councilmember Hans Andersen
SCHEDULED ITEMS
City Council Minutes – April 16, 2013 (p.1)
6:30 P.M. PUBLIC HEARING
MOTION – Approving a Property Exchange and Construction of a Park and Sports Complex –
Cascade Golf Course Property
Bruce Chesnut, City Manager, presented a staff recommendation that the City Council, by motion:
1. Find that the transactions set forth in the Agreement provide the City with fair and adequate
consideration and are in the best interests of the City;
2. Declare the property to be conveyed pursuant to the Agreement to be surplus;
3. Authorize the Mayor and City Manager to negotiate minor changes to the Agreement,
provided that the changes are consistent with the intent of the Agreement and do not
materially alter the terms of the Agreement or the City’s obligations under the Agreement;
and
4. Authorize the Mayor to sign the Agreement
The City owns approximately 54 acres of real property in northeast Orem. In 1966, the City leased
the property to Herbert B. Stratton for use as a golf course. The lease allowed Mr. Stratton to use the
property for 25 years, with options for three additional 25 year terms, giving him until 2066 to
operate a golf course on the property. Mr. Stratton constructed a golf course on the property and the
property now makes up the lower nine holes of Cascade Golf Club. Mr. Stratton assigned the lease to
other Stratton family interests who have continued to operate the golf course on the property.
In a separate agreement not involving the City, the Stratton family interests recently assigned (or
optioned) their interest in the lease to Todd Pedersen. Mr. Pedersen and the City have negotiated
terms for terminating the lease. Unless the lease is terminated, Mr. Pedersen would only be allowed
to use the property for a golf course and the City would be unable to use the property for any purpose
until 2066.
The proposed Agreement:
 Terminates the 1966 Lease
 Requires the City to convey 37 acres of the north end of the lease property to Mr. Pedersen
 Allows the City to begin using 16.8 acres of the south end of the lease property
 Requires Mr. Pedersen to convey 3.3 acres of property east of the lease property to the City
 Requires Mr. Pedersen to pay all costs of constructing a park and sports complex on the
20.1 acres retained by the City
Mr. Hirst advised that over the past seven years he has informed the Council about the recreation
needs of the City. The recently adopted Recreation Master Plan lists the number one priority as
obtaining new fields and protecting the existing playing fields. This proposal does not address all of
the needs, but it does take a first step towards protecting the existing fields. Mr. Hirst then reviewed
the history of the Golf Course lease.
Mr. Chesnut explained the City cannot sell the property to anyone because of the lease. The lease
agreement allows the Stratton’s to sell the lease to someone else. Anyone can approach Mr. Stratton
about buying the lease, and many have over the years. Mr. Chesnut noted the upper nine holes are
owned by the Stratton’s and not the City. The City would have to purchase the lease in order to sell
the property, and it would cost millions of dollars. The City is not involved in the transaction
between the Stratton’s and the Pedersens. Mr. Chesnut said the only thing he knows about that
agreement is that Mr. Stratton is transferring all of his interest in the lease to Mr. Pedersen.
City Council Minutes – April 16, 2013 (p.2)
Bruce Dickerson, representative, said the City had approached him about help with some
fundraising, and the issue of Cascade Golf Course came up during some discussions. He said he is
acquainted with Mr. Pedersen. When approached, Mr. Pedersen said he would be interested in some
of the property. Mr. Dickerson said it turned out to be a lot more complicated than he realized. Mr.
Dickerson then reviewed his history as a developer in Orem for the past thirty-five years. He stated
that he has “no dog in this hunt.” He is just trying to help mediate this transaction, and he is not
being compensated by Mr. Stratton, Mr. Pedersen, or Orem City. As he researched this proposal, he
concluded that this is a win-win-win, for Orem City, the neighbors, and Todd Pedersen. Mr.
Pedersen was looking for a place to build his new home, and it took him some time to warm to the
idea of putting it in this area. Mr. Dickerson advised he has held 6 or 7 neighborhood meetings. He
expressed appreciation to the neighbors for being involved in this process and caring. He said he has
never seen so many people take such an active part in a decision, and it has been phenomenal. Mr.
Dickerson indicated it is important for everyone to understand that he has no authority in this
decision. He is just an information gatherer. The current plan is the best compromise between the
wishes of the neighbors, Mr. Pederson, and the City. Mr. Dickerson noted there was no real
negotiation until Mr. Stratton and Mr. Pedersen entered into a real estate contract. Mr. Dickerson
indicated the proposed design could be developed with more than seventy-six homes, yet Mr.
Pedersen is only proposing twelve. This proposal has a $6-7 million donation from Mr. Pedersen,
which is the largest Orem has ever had.
Mr. Chesnut advised when considering the costs associated with the project, they have to look at
what the City has now. Right now the City can collect $537 a year for the lease, and in 2066 that
property would come back Orem. Until that time, unless someone changes the lease, the only value
the City has in that property is the $537 per year. Mr. Chesnut said many financial experts have
looked into this. The value of the asset right now is from $800,000 to $1.2 million because they
cannot sell the land. The purchaser is going to change the parameters of the lease and allow the City
to use 16.7 acres of land right now. The City gains the value of that property, which is an asset. Mr.
Pedersen is also giving the City the 3.3 acres adjacent to the property, which he purchased from Mr.
Stratton. The value of the property is between $150,000 to $200,000 an acre. That is a total of
20 acres gained by the City. Mr. Pedersen is going to build a sports complex park and will put in
$2.5 million to build that. Through this transaction, the City gains the value of the property, plus the
3.3 acres, plus the asset of the park facility. The combined value of this is between $6 and
$7 million. Some people have said the City is giving away the 37 acres for a cheap price. In order to
gain access to that 37 acres, someone has to buy the lease.
Blain Hales, appraiser, reviewed the criteria for determining the appraisal value of the property. He
explained right now the City owns the lease fee. This proposal will give the City 20 acres that can be
used right now, as well as the additional property for parking. Mr. Pedersen is putting $2.5 million
in improvements, which makes the total value for the City between $5.8 and 8.3 million depending
on the cost per acre.
Peter VanOrman, resident, asked whether the appraiser took into consideration the replacement cost
since the City has an interest in parks and golf courses. He questioned what it would cost if the City
wanted to replace Cascade Golf Course.
Mr. Hales replied that was not a question he was asked to determine, so he cannot answer that right
now.
Mr. Chesnut noted the City does have another eighteen-hole golf course in the city. Sleepy Ridge is
located in Orem as well.
City Council Minutes – April 16, 2013 (p.3)
Ron Mortimer, Horrocks Engineers, presented the results of a traffic study. The conclusion and
recommendation of the traffic study are as follows:
 Based on the traffic operations analysis, the study intersections immediately surrounding the
project will operate at acceptable levels after the project is built. There are some movements
that may need attention, but the overall intersections will operate within acceptable levels
under the current conditions
 It is likely that as traffic increases on 800 North, 1400 East will operate as a right-in/right-out
during commute times. However, if 100 percent of the left-turn volumes exiting 1400 East to
800 North were to be reassigned to the Palisades Drive intersection, the intersection
can accommodate the vehicles operationally. This is based on the fact that there are already
121 northbound left turns using the intersection. Any reassigned traffic would be less than
121 total vehicles, which are already being accommodated on the opposite side of 800 North
 The on-site parking should remain higher than national averages to ensure the least amount of
impact to the adjacent neighbors
 Existing parking restrictions on adjacent neighborhood streets should remain. However, the
City should consider a “post-project” evaluation of the area in order to quantify changes to
adjacent traffic
 The land-use mix of a park, soccer complex, school, residential neighborhood, and even an
office complex, is a good mix of uses that complement each other. The peak time and day of
each use does not overlap to create a poor traffic condition
 Consideration should be taken when considering modifying the design of the roundabout,
such as narrowing the travel way, providing more deflection, and making the roundabout a
spiral design
 It is recommended to review the potential for adjusting the 800 North Palisades Drive
southbound approach in order to reduce the frequency of vehicles queuing into the
roundabout that was witnessed during field data collection
 Access to adjacent parcels needs to be considered when looking at the future road network
 The alternative to a soccer complex is up to 80 homes at 4 units per acre. This would generate
500 more trips per day than the proposed project
 The visual traffic analysis (VISSIM) was built and analyzed as though many of the cars
would exit the soccer field at the same time to best duplicate real traffic conditions
 Installing the raised crosswalk and signing the curve appropriately (15 mph) will help reduce
vehicle speeds in the area
 If a forth leg of the roundabout is constructed, it is recommended to perform a detailed
geometric review of the roundabout, including deflection, center median, and queuing
Mrs. McCandless clarified it is her understanding that the video shows everyone leaving the park at
the same time as peak traffic. Mr. Mortimer replied they showed it as if the games on all three fields
ended at the same time. That is not very realistic, but they wanted to show the worst case scenario.
Mrs. McCandless then asked whether the impact of school hour drop off and pick up were
considered. Mr. Mortimer said the biggest traffic peak for the school is at 3:00 p.m. but 800 North is
much lower at that time.
Mr. Seastrand asked whether there would need to be modifications to the roundabout. Mr. Mortimer
responded there are several improvements they are recommending for the modifications to improve
traffic flow.
Mr. Mortimer then reviewed parking. There are 280 stalls planned for this area, and they anticipate
222 stalls being used during the games. There should be adequate parking for this use.
City Council Minutes – April 16, 2013 (p.4)
Mr. Sumner asked how expensive the tweaks for the roundabout and traffic flow would be, and Mr.
Mortimer said that is being done in conjunction with the park improvements.
Mr. Chesnut noted those improvements would be paid for by the developer.
Mayor Evans suggested they have more traffic counters in other areas and have a pre-project count
and post-project count in order to do the evaluation.
Mr. Seastrand asked whether a roundabout can fail and if that could happen here. Mr. Mortimer said
the Utah Valley University roundabout has problems because the college has outgrown it. The
semaphore at 800 North would fail before the roundabout would and would cause traffic to back up
in the roundabout. There are things that can be done to improve traffic flow for a roundabout should
this area grow more than expected.
Mr. Mortimer, in reference to the Mayor’s previous suggestion, said he would be more than happy to
meet with the neighbors on the west side and do some additional traffic counts.
Mr. Hirst advised he has been asked who would play on the fields. Soccer is the biggest youth sport
program, so the fields would mostly be used for soccer. However, they also get requests for lacrosse,
rugby, flag football, tackle football, and ultimate frisbee. He would anticipate a number of different
sports programs being up there. Orem has a lot of soccer fields, but most of them are on Alpine
School District property or temporary fields such as the cemetery fields. The cemetery was never
intended to be sports fields. The IHC Hospital has allowed the City to use some property for playing
fields, but that is on a year-to-year basis and can end with a one year notice. Most of the school
grounds are not set up for fields. The teams have to have somewhere to practice and that takes place
on the school district fields.
Mayor Evans indicated he has received as many emails from lacrosse families as he has from soccer
families. There is a need for lacrosse fields as well. He expressed appreciation that the fields have
been designated as sports fields, so they can be used by the different sports.
Mr. Seastrand asked what it takes to convert a field from soccer to lacrosse. Mr. Hirst replied it is
just a matter of relining the fields and changing the goals.
Mr. Seastrand question whether there are any safety concerns in playing lacrosse in adjacent fields.
Mr. Hirst said the balls do come out sometimes as with any sport. The lacrosse goals do move
toward the center. The soccer goals are at the end and can be overshot but they go off the field.
Mr. Sumner said the lacrosse parents say there are no fields available in Orem. He asked how the
fields are assigned. Mr. Hirst said soccer is the largest cosponsored group, so they have first priority.
They fill all of Orem’s fields. They have lacrosse at Scera Elementary and Canyon View Junior
High sometimes. The high schools are doing more to accommodate the lacrosse clubs.
Mrs. Black asked how they would change the striping on the fields to accommodate both soccer and
lacrosse. Mr. Hirst said the groups have to do it, and it lasts about two lawn cuttings. The City
recently hosted a large lacrosse tournament at Lakeside Park, and a soccer tournament the week
before. They used different color paint for the striping to make it work.
Mr. Hirst said it has been suggested that the soccer fields be split up. They have tried to do that.
They try to play it on every piece of flat ground available.
City Council Minutes – April 16, 2013 (p.5)
Mrs. McCandless asked whether the parking design accommodates smaller fields and more traffic.
Mr. Mortimer said they only studied the proposed three fields. They can consider the impact if it
were broken into five smaller fields; however, the odds of five fields loading and unloading at the
same time are pretty slim.
Mr. Hirst advised Lakeside Sports Park has eight full-size soccer fields, which can be broken up to
smaller fields, and five ball diamonds. There are 330 parking stalls there. This proposal has three
full-size fields and 280 stalls. There is a significantly different ratio between the two. He indicated
it is his recommendation that they not have more than three games at a time until they evaluate the
parking and the traffic.
Mrs. McCandless thanked Mr. Hirst for that information. She said if this is approved, she does not
want traffic to go into the neighborhoods.
Mr. Sumner asked how many attended the neighborhood meetings and whether most of the concerns
had been addressed. Mr. Dickerson replied the Council Chambers were full and once a church gym
was full. He figured they had between 200-300 attending. The neighbors were concerned about
access through the park and the safety of children. Mr. Dickerson indicated they put a footpath
around the park, which is designed to help the children walk from the east around and to the school.
There will also be a wrought iron fence installed to replace the chain link fence. Another concern
was that the balls would go into the neighbor’s backyards. He has passed some suggestions on to
Mr. Mortimer, and they are doing a landscape plan that will mitigate that concern as best as they can.
There was also a desire to help control the sound. They are trying to duplicate what was done at the
City Center fields to shield the sound from 400 East. The neighbors to the west of the proposal are
concerned about the traffic on the streets. It is critical that the City work with the Utah Department
of Transportation (UDOT) to get the signal realigned to eliminate traffic backing up in the
roundabout. They have designed approximately twenty different site plans in order to address the
City’s needs as well as the neighbor’s concerns. Mr. Pedersen is paying the bill, and he wanted to
maintain a vista of trees. This has resulted in a good compromise between all parties.
Mayor Evans asked about keeping park traffic out of the residential area to the north. Mr. Dickerson
said there are many issues with the subdivision that have not yet been addressed because they are
focusing on the park.
Mayor Evans opened the public hearing.
Gary Robinson, resident, indicated he is a lifelong golfer and his daughters both played soccer on a
college level. He was also a County Planning Commissioner for six years, and they looked for
corporate partnerships to increase open space. They are currently losing open space, and they cannot
raise taxes because there would be a public outcry. This is what the County has worked for years to
happen. By doing this, Orem is setting a precedence that will open the door for other benefactors
who would look to do something the same. This is extremely important. They are taking great open
space that everyone can use for free. To do this at no cost to the City is the right thing to do.
Jay Porter, resident, said in the 1970s he golfed at the Cascade Golf Course for the first time. Since
that time, he has golfed there a lot, and his family has a history there. The golf course does provide a
recreation opportunity. There should be plenty of space for soccer fields along Geneva Road. He
City Council Minutes – April 16, 2013 (p.6)
indicated Sleepy Ridge Golf Course has a mosquito problem, and the threat of West Nile virus is a
big concern. He asked whether the park would be open on Sunday. Mr. Porter indicated if they
decide in a few years that building a park there was not a good idea, they cannot change it.
Larry Ashby, Provo resident, stated he lives a mile from the Cascade Golf Course. The City’s
decision to dedicate land to the golf course nearly fifty years ago was a good one and should be
continued. The City could make a lot of money by selling lots. The talk about protecting the sports
fields is not a win-win-win, because it does not provide a win for golfers. He expressed concern
about having to walk a long distance to get to the playing fields. He then asked whether other people
have had an opportunity to bid on the property. He expressed most of this proposal is driven by
money and not for the benefit of what this was originally set up for.
Denny Thursby, Provo resident, noted the City will have a twenty-acre park that will cost money to
maintain. This is a lose situation for golfers. The population is aging, and there will be more people
wanting to play golf. He asked the Council to take that into consideration.
Dale Shumway, resident, advised he is opposed to the sale of the golf course. The high-powered
presenters make this sound like a good deal. He then read ten humorous points about the sale of the
golf course.
Ivan Gray, resident, stated he disagrees with the financial estimates and reviewed the numbers he has
come up with. He said this would increase the cost to the City by $100,000 each year. He said the
sales tax revenues the golf course brings in were not considered in the appraisal. He said the City is
giving away the rights for 34 acres, which does not make sense in exchange for the access of
20 acres. All parties knew the terms of the lease in 1966, and it should be maintained. Mr. Gray
suggested that the City could be cozying up to a rich person with a propensity for contributing to
campaigns.
Tanya Keller, neighbor, noted she loves the idea of the park, but she has concerns about the safety of
her children. She believes her street is likely to be the most impacted by this proposal. The street was
approved by the City to be more narrow than other streets, and it is already a safety issue without the
increase in traffic. The fields appear to be being built for the soccer clubs and not the City programs.
She questioned why the City must be responsible to provide fields for private groups. She suggested
a variety of things that could be done to protect her street.
Martin Wile, resident, said he is opposed to this proposal. The golf course has always been there and
taking it out would be like taking out a part of him. He does not believe this should be turned into a
playground for the rich.
Larry Hulvey, Lindon resident, advised he lives two miles from the golf course and is a frequent user
of the facility. He said golf is a game for life for the entire family. The special thing about Cascade
is walking the golf course. It is the most walker friendly course in Utah Valley. As a retired person,
Cascade has the best value. Going forward with this project does set a precedent, it cancels a
commitment that was made to the residents many years ago. He urged the City Council to leave the
golf course as is.
City Council Minutes – April 16, 2013 (p.7)
Kaiwi Chung-Hoon, neighbor, indicated he recently moved to Orem and built a new house. He
expressed appreciation for the Mayor’s suggestion to look at the traffic on 1170 East. There is
additional traffic on the very narrow road. He was nearly hit twice trying to install his mailbox. He
then asked what levels of soccer would be played at the park. He noted the large fields could be
broken into twelve small fields.
David Hunter, neighbor, advised he is 100 percent in favor of this plan. He has 7 children, and they
would love to have a huge park there. They do not play golf, but his children play soccer. No one
ever likes change; however, having an open asset that is free to the community is great. He noted he
recently purchased property next to the golf course, and it was lower than the appraiser’s estimates.
Devin Peirce, resident, stated it seems as though the Council’s minds are already made up. He said
he will not golf at Sleepy Ridge Golf Course because he is terrified of the West Nile virus. It is close
to the sewer plant and does not smell good around there. This proposal upsets him greatly.
Peter Vanorman, resident, said he and his wife have season passes at Cascade, which is a priceless
treasure. The City fathers who signed the lease were wise. He has read the lease agreement, and the
term was for 100 years. The contract says the lease is for a golf course only. The City is the
landlord, and they make the rules. He asked the Council to follow those rules.
Richard Brunst, resident, expressed his hope that further consideration would be given to take the
long point of view of increased property values in fifty-three years. It could be a $63 million asset in
the future, and the City will need those other acres at some point. Safety is a big concern. After
experiencing the traffic at the Lakeside Sports Complex, he has concerns about the traffic here. Mr.
Brunst recommended that perhaps the cemetery property should be left for soccer fields. He
expressed his belief that those fields were condemned for cemetery use, but they should look to see if
that can be changed. They could look at other options for cemetery use.
Terrance Williams, resident, reminisced about his experiences over the years he has played at
Cascade, including when he recovered from post-traumatic stress disorder after serving in Vietnam
and recovering from an auto accident. He plays senior golf, and his children and grandchildren golf
at Cascade. The City needs green space. He indicated he would volunteer his time to help run the
golf course so it was not a burden to the City.
LJ Sylvester, Lindon resident, stated he lives three miles from the golf course. At the beginning of
the discussion tonight, it was all about the money. He said most residents do not have a lot of money.
There is a great value to the golf course. He said he would like the quality of life that comes from
having the Cascade Golf Course to continue.
Dave Simmons, resident, noted he has never met a golfer without a sense of humor. Perhaps the golf
course could be moved to the cemetery because it is a dying sport that is serving only a small portion
of the community. He said he is in favor of the proposal, and the sports complex will be used by
more residents than the golf course is. He suggested the new Murdock Trail could be used as a
connection between 1100 East and the Canyon Trail, they could alleviate some of the bicyclist and
jogger problems.
City Council Minutes – April 16, 2013 (p.8)
Tyler Crawford, resident, said the golf course is one of the things that attracted him to the area in the
first place. His biggest concern is what will be the best long-term outcome for this neighborhood. He
indicated he is in favor of the proposal. If the golf course could stay forever, he would be happy.
However, he would rather have the area developed as proposed rather than rely on some other entity.
There has been a lot of back and forth in the meetings, and the biggest remaining concern has been
the traffic in the west side neighborhood.
Brian Kelly, resident, advised he is opposed to the development. An email went around by one of the
local soccer clubs encouraging the neighbors to support the development. He said the parking cannot
be regulated. If this is approved, the City is “prostituting” something that is precious. He noted he
does not believe the estimates for property values.
Bruce Gilchrist, resident, stated he was not invited to any of the neighborhood meetings. He has been
playing golf since he was fourteen, and he is now eighty. It is a lifetime sport. He encouraged the
Council to vote against this proposal.
Tacy Wells, neighbor, said it is her understanding that Mr. Stratton would like to sell the lease, but
the new leaseholder must still run a golf course or it would revert back to the City. She wondered
why the City does not let that happen.
Robert Rogers, resident, expressed that he is upset about this proposal because it is exclusionary. The
proposal has fourteen homes that will be built in a gated community. He said he and his wife use the
park in the winter. The park will be closed for two years to grow the grass, and the residents will not
be able to use it. He also expressed concern for the employees of the golf course. He believes this is
poor use of the City’s assets.
James Allen, resident, noted he is opposed to this proposal. He did not find out about the proposal
until recently and wonders if this is moving too fast. It is important to keep green space for the
community. The golf course is a jewel in Utah Valley. The Sleepy Ridge Golf Course is not a place
for the high school programs like they have at Cascade. It is also not set up for senior golfers like
Cascade is.
Max Paulson, resident, advised he is a golfer and spends a lot of money doing it. The issue tonight is
not so much about golfing as it is about money. The acreage going into the building lots is a huge
price for what the residents would get out of it. That makes for a very expensive soccer field.
Property is a good investment, and the City should retain it. In years to come, the lots could be worth
$10 million an acre.
David Nelson, Provo resident, stated he used to live in Orem. He said he understands the desire to
begin the project right away but asked for some extra time for the fans of Cascade to golf there a
couple of more times.
Kelly Brown, resident, noted she is the PTA president at Foothill Elementary. If this does go through,
there are traffic issues that need to be considered. The impact on traffic will be huge if the three
fields are used for more games. The timing of the games must be considered in conjunction with the
end time at the school. She said she does not think enough time had been spent for the traffic study,
City Council Minutes – April 16, 2013 (p.9)
and it needs to be done during the school hours. She expressed concern that Mr. Hirst has an agenda
with this proposal because of his desire to have more soccer fields.
Ryan Jespersen, resident, said his family is ecstatic to have a park to use. He appreciates the attention
that has been given to the traffic. His experience with Horrocks Engineering is that they are a
reputable company. Mr. Jespersen asked how the fields would be regulated to insure that only three
fields are used.
Jared Jardine, resident, advised he only heard about this proposal at the last Council meeting. He
disagreed with the estimated property values. He said he is an atrocious golfer, but his brothers love
it. He suggested there might be other people interested in running the golf course.
John Davis, resident, stated he just found out about the plan a couple of hours ago. He said he is
opposed to the project. Precautions can be put in place, but accidents will happen. Soccer and
lacrosse are getting preference with this proposal but asked about the local golf clubs.
Jerry Petrie, resident, noted he thought it might be nice to have a park there but decided he would die
trying to cross 800 North. He said it appears the traffic study did not include the vehicle and
pedestrian traffic on the south side of 800 North. He joked that soccer and lacrosse players grow up
and become golfers.
Todd Santiago, resident, indicated he has eight children. Many of his children play soccer, and he is a
golfer. He said he is in support of the proposal, and he thinks a park is inclusionary when
considering the needs of all Orem residents. He supports as much safety study as possible, and he
thinks the math on the property valuation is accurate. He would like to use a park near his home
before the next fifty-three years have passed.
Golden Holt, resident and operator of Sleepy Ridge Golf Course, stated that having two golf courses
in Orem is a tribute. He noted the Council does care about the golfers. He is not here to speak for or
against this project. He is just here to educate the public. It is a tough world operating a golf course,
and the City of Orem does not subsidize either of the courses here. There are no guarantees going
forward that either of the courses will be able to pay the bills for the next fifty years. This is a
nationwide problem. If the vote is to go forward with this project, he wanted everyone to know that
Sleepy Ridge would welcome the Cascade golfers. He has been in discussion with the Orem High
School golf team and has met with many senior golfers.
Matt Richards, resident, said he is very familiar with the narrow thoroughfare on 1170 East. The
heavy traffic will increase the danger. He supports soccer and is a golfer, so he is fine with whatever
the decision is. Debate is healthy, so this is a good process.
Chris Howell, resident, said the reason he moved to Orem on Palisade Drive was because of the golf
course. His children play golf, and they play well because of this golf course. He has not been
pleased with Sleepy Ridge because he was charged $.50 for a cup of ice water when it was
105’ outside. He encouraged the Council to go to Cascade and see how many kids are using it. He
also wondered about the increase of traffic on Palisade that this proposal will cause.
City Council Minutes – April 16, 2013 (p.10)
Steve Size, resident, said he just found out about this on Saturday. He noted he is opposed to the
proposal.
David Spencer, resident, indicated the Council represents the residents of Orem. The decisions that
are made today affect the future and the future of the children. The decisions that looked good in the
past do not always continue that way. Midtown Village might have looked like a good idea then, but
not now. It is the same thing with UTOPIA. He questioned the logic of opening a second golf
course for a city the size of Orem. The Council needs to stop spending money and focus on the needs
of the people.
Chris Lundquist, resident, noted he is opposed to the proposal. His children play at Cascade. There is
already a neighborhood park by the elementary school, although it does not supply the soccer fields.
He voted to keep Cascade.
Lana Howe, resident, said the City needs to respect the original decision to have a golf course.
David Atkinson, resident, advised he just found out about this. He is not a golf or soccer fan but
wondered why this is even up for discussion if the lease with the golf course is for one hundred
years. He suggested that perhaps this should go to a vote of the people. The Council should give it
more consideration.
Ryan Packer, resident, indicated he understands the need for change and accommodation. However,
taking a valuable piece of history is “insane.” The State is throwing a lot of money at Utah Valley
University for building projects right now, and even they took time during the development to
protect a historic home on the property. He urged the Council to consider not taking away a
cherished piece of Orem’s heritage.
Leslie Nelson, resident, stated the motion on the agenda includes the authority to make minor
changes to the proposed agreement. She would like to get rid of that language. For many years she
has wished there was room for the LDS church to build a temple on this property. She would love
for Orem to be open to that option. She said she used to golf and loves Cascade; however if the City
wants to do this, they should look at other options.
Linda Vanorman, resident, advised it seems this development is for the wealthy and the young. She
has nothing against those that are wealthy and young; however, she is getting older. She said she and
her husband have talked about moving to Wasatch if this proposal is approved because it is beautiful
there. Cascade is beautiful and should be retained.
Blaine Livingston, resident, noted this project is a golden opportunity. The City cannot afford not to
take advantage of it. He encouraged the Council to consider the welfare of the residents who live
around the golf course in trying to make it safe.
Steve Bowler, Orem Youth Soccer, stated there are more options available that have not been
considered. He is not against the project, but he believes there are other places where fields are
available.
City Council Minutes – April 16, 2013 (p.11)
Mayor Evans closed the public hearing.
***The Council took a break at 9:59 p.m. and reconvened at 10:10 p.m.***
Mr. Hirst explained he can control the programming on the fields for programs that are run by Orem.
Soccer is done through a cosponsored group. He can give them guidance and will watch that they
follow that guidance. There is no Sunday programming, but the parks are open.
Mr. Sumner noted that Mr. Hirst works with the City’s Recreation Advisory Commission who
provide input about the needs in the community.
At the request of Mr. Chesnut, Mr. Stephens explained the terms of the 1966 lease. He stated the
only rights the City has to put out to bid are the rights to receive the lease payments or the rights to
receive the property back in 1966. The only reason to meet tonight is to decide whether or not to use
a portion of the property now. They can only do that by amending the terms of the agreement with
the holder of the lease. This is something the Council can legally do.
Mr. Chesnut said that he is a golfer. He loves the game of golf, and he would play it every day if he
could. There is interest on both sides of the decision present tonight. There would be an increase in
the cost of operating a park here. The Parks Department knows the costs involved in the
maintenance. The City is committed to looking at the traffic on the west side of this proposal. The
narrower roads do slow traffic down. Mr. Mortimer had explained the traffic studies were done
during spring break and while school was in session. Many people have expressed a desire that it will
always be a golf course, but there are no guarantees. The City does not have the authority to tell Mr.
Stratton he cannot sell the lease.
Mr. Davidson advised Orem has a Transportation Advisory Commission that is constantly mindful
of transportation issues. They meet on a regular basis with UDOT. In going forward, they will
continue to monitor traffic flows in the streets around the park. The City is concerned about the
safety of children and work closely with the Alpine School District and Foothill Elementary.
Mr. Chesnut remarked there was another question about the connection of the trail system to the
Murdock Canal System. The City has been working to acquire the property, and it is ready for bid.
The project is being funded with federal dollars. Mr. Chesnut advised he is a cyclist, and as soon as
the trail is complete, he will use that new connection. Mr. Chesnut stated he cannot speak to what
will happen with the employees of the golf course. He does know that Randy Anderson works with
the Stratton family in another part of their business, so he should be taken care of. Mr. Chesnut then
invited Mr. Dickerson to speak on the closing date of the golf course.
Mr. Dickerson said the agreement did not address the closing date directly, but they are working on
an agreement for Mr. Stratton to continue running the course until Mr. Pedersen is ready to begin
construction. Mr. Pedersen’s intent is to put a conservation easement on the back nine holes so it will
never be built, developed, or used. Mr. Pedersen is also working with the Central Utah Water
Conservancy to relocate some lines they wanted to move.
Mrs. Black inquired about the sales tax versus the property tax revenues.
City Council Minutes – April 16, 2013 (p.12)
Mr. Chesnut advised the City is under tight scrutiny by the State about disclosing a business’s taxes.
The City would receive about $5,000 in sales tax if the golf course does $500,000 in business,. They
would receive $13,000 in property taxes with this proposal.
Mr. Dickerson noted the property tax values for the homes could be being underestimated. Mr.
Pedersen is taking up twenty acres of that property for his home, which might be $13,000 by itself.
Mr. Seastrand asked whether there might be increased value to the Alpine School District too. Mr.
Davidson agreed saying the District gets a much larger portion of the property tax bill.
Mr. Chesnut added the Alpine School District would be the big winner in this decision.
At the invitation of Mayor Evans, Keven Stratton spoke. Mr. Stratton advised that he does not
believe the Council has made a decision on this issue in advance. He has not had any discussion with
the Councilmembers and only a couple of short ones with the Mayor. This has not been an easy
decision. The State of Utah operates four golf courses, and they lose $1 million a year. He expressed
his gratitude for the opportunity to be involved in running the Cascade Golf Course, and he believes
it is a great model. Mr. Stratton said he believes the professionals on the City staff have presented the
best information they can. He noted that the City, in the early nineties, sold its interest in the lease
but it came back to the City. Mr. Pedersen has sought to act honorably with this proposal. Mr.
Stratton said he believes Mr. Dickerson when he says he does not have a “dog in the fight.” Mr.
Stratton said when they entered into this agreement, they thought it would be good for the city.
However, he recognized that it would be hard on the golfers. His connection with the golfers has
been more than a business relationship. When he discussed this proposal with Mr. Pedersen, they
both agreed they wanted this to be a good thing for the city. Mr. Stratton said he understands this is a
hard decision, and it is his hope that he can run the course for as long into the season as he can.
Mr. Chesnut explained he and Mr. Stratton have worked on many things over the years. They have
not agreed on everything, but they have always been respectful. He agreed that the golf business is a
tough business, but neither of the courses in Orem have required subsidizing by the City to pay
operational expenses. The State and other cities do have to subsidize their golf courses.
Mr. Andersen said it has been interesting to be involved in this. He said he feels bad that so many
people commented that they did not know about this proposal. It makes it hard for this Council
because back in 1966 the City mixed private property and private control with government land. If
this were Mr. Stratton’s property, they would not be having this discussion because he could sell his
land. They cannot let private enterprise run its course. He said he helped organize what is called a
referendum. He noted if the residents are ticked off enough, they can do a referendum, and he would
show them how to do it. However, they would have to convince people that they want to spend
another $1 million to subsidize Cascade to keep it open. He said he wished everything was just plain
old private enterprise. He said he will not feel good about anything that comes out of this. He just
gets to sit up there and have a bunch of people mad at him no matter what he does.
Mr. Seastrand thanked everyone who has sent in comments. This has been an excellent opportunity
to talk to a lot of people. He has tried to get a broad perspective from the community as a whole. Mr.
City Council Minutes – April 16, 2013 (p.13)
Seastrand said part of the factor that plays on his mind is that the person who owns the lease has
decided to sell it. It says a lot that Mr. Stratton feels it is in the best interest to sell. Mr. Seastrand
stated at this point, he has tried to take the emotion out of it. He has to ask whether this proposal is
fair to the city. He came into this being doubtful; however, after the presentation, he feels more
comfortable. He questioned the impact of the decision on the various people involved. The
configuration of the field seems to have a good usage and can be utilized for many activities. The
traffic issue is a key consideration, and he agrees that additional consideration should be given if
going forward. Safety is also very important. The City has always tried to take safety into
consideration, especially around the schools. Most of the parks in the city are located next to
schools, which is a positive aspect. Mr. Seastrand stated he is concerned about the costs to operate
the park. He asked Mr. Chesnut for a realistic estimate on the cost.
Mr. Chesnut advised the cost would be about $100,000 in the design as it is right now; that could be
more or less depending upon the final design.
Mr. Seastrand said the impact on the neighborhood is important. He expressed his belief that those
concerns have been addressed. The impact on the golfers is a big one. He too is a golfer, and he has
many great memories of golfing with is family at Cascade. The vital question is whether the City
should proceed with this proposal.
Mrs. McCandless noted she has members of her family that are golfers and that activity has always
meant a lot to them. She took a similar approach to Mr. Seastrand as far as evaluating this proposal.
The Recreation Advisory Commission held open houses and received input about the need for park
space and sports fields. She said she also had questions coming into the meeting, and she feels her
concerns have been addressed. Mrs. McCandless clarified that she has never met Mr. Pedersen, and
she had not made up her mind before this meeting. She has heard the suggestion that the property
could be developed into seventy-two lots. Mrs. McCandless stated she would not vote to approve
that because there is a need for open space in the city. However, this proposal provides that. She
noted she heard many comments about the sale of the property being exclusionary; however, she
feels that golfing is exclusionary. If this became a park, more people would have access to the
property. Parking was a big concern for her because of the issues at the Lakeside Sports Complex.
Safety is also a concern for her. She expressed her hope that if this is approved, the City will takes to
ensure the safety of the residents and the children. She voiced appreciation for the commitment of
limiting it to three games at a time.
Mr. Sumner thanked the staff and Mr. Dickerson for the work they have done and especially the
residents for coming to comment on this. Mr. Sumner said this has weighed heavily on his mind.
Listening to the comments tonight from his friends who love golf is hard. When the lease was
created in 1966, it was not a “slam dunk” back then. His father was initially opposed to the golf
course, and yet, it has provided so many good options for the city. He reminded those present that
the Councilmembers also live in the city, and they would never do anything that would intentionally
hurt the residents. They study the issues and stress over the decisions. This has been one of the
toughest decisions he has had to make as a Councilmember. Mr. Sumner indicated if the plan is not
right when it is built, they will fix it. If this passes, the Council will do everything they can to ensure
the safety of the children. Unless people have attended the Recreation Advisory Commission
meetings, they do not know the pressure that is put on Mr. Hirst to provide for all the varied interests
City Council Minutes – April 16, 2013 (p.14)
in Orem. Mr. Sumner indicated this decision has not made in advance. He does not even know how
the other Councilmembers are going to vote. In the last week, he has made countless phone calls and
responded to many emails in reference to this decision.
Mrs. Black noted her heart is full when she hears people talk about how much they have loved the
Cascade Golf Course. Many of the people that have spoken this evening are her neighbors. She said
she has never met Todd Pedersen, and there has been no collusion involved in this decision. That is
not the way the City works. Every person on the Council is a good-hearted person that wants to do
what is best for Orem City. She expressed appreciation for the residents who have come to speak
tonight. As she has looked at this, it is hard to make a decision. She said she feels for Keven Stratton
because his heart must be breaking in several ways as he moves on from this. However, there are
opportunities in this proposal. She said “the opportunity of a lifetime is found in the lifetime of the
opportunity”. The City had nothing to do with the lease being sold. It was done in a private manner.
It is now the City’s job to look at this proposal very carefully, and she has taken the time to study
out all of the issues. This proposal allows the City to obtain use of their property fifty-three years
ahead of time, which is a great opportunity. The financial aspects are favorable to the City. The
mitigating effects that have been described in terms of the traffic are very helpful. She said she does
not know that everything that needs to be addressed has been, and she does understands the concerns
of the neighbors. She drives down 1170 East, and she does drive slower because it is narrow. She
noted there is a way to address those concerns, and the staff and Council have a desire to do their
very best for the residents of Orem. She voiced gratitude to Sleepy Ridge Golf Course for reaching
out to the golfers, specifically the seniors and youth. She encouraged the golfers to learn to love the
Sleepy Ridge Golf Course. She indicated the safety factor needs to be addressed, but making this a
park is an inclusionary effort. It provides a free place for people to go to enjoy the open space, and it
provides fields for the sports teams. She has been on the Council for six years, and it has been a
frustrating effort to find land for this use. It makes her grateful to think there will be wonderful
fields for the youth to use.
Mayor Evans advised this has been a difficult decision, but he has been impressed with the
deliberation and the time taken to research this out. He indicated he has driven that road a lot in the
past but quit driving it because it was too narrow. In terms of safety, when the time gets closer for it
to be used, the traffic studies need to be done again and then after a season of games, so they can
mitigate any concerns that arise. Mayor Evans said he was on the Council when the City purchased
the cemetery property for future growth. The numbers show that it makes sense to maintain the two
cemetery properties next to each other to utilize the same staff. He noted that no one on the Council
had heard this presentation before tonight. He thanked Mr. Dickerson for his efforts with this
proposal. Mr. Dickerson has built many developments in Orem. Mayor Evans expressed
appreciation for Todd Pedersen because he did not need to do this and for Mr. Stratton and his family
for what they have done for Orem.
Mr. Seastrand asked for an explanation of number three on the motion. Mr. Stephens explained that
was included because there is an exhibit to the agreement that includes the specifications that the
engineers have prepared. Mr. Pedersen’s engineers have not had the opportunity to thoroughly go
through those specs. They wanted the opportunity to tweak them a little if needed as long as they
were accomplishing all of the purposes of the agreement and complying with the concept plan.
City Council Minutes – April 16, 2013 (p.15)
Mayor Evans stated he believes that the City will get more park for the money by having a private
sector person using whatever contractors he wants.
Mrs. Black moved:
1. To find that the transactions set forth in the Agreement provide the City with fair and
adequate consideration and are in the best interests of the City;
2. To declare the property to be conveyed pursuant to the Agreement to be surplus;
3. To authorize the Mayor and City Manager to negotiate minor changes to the Agreement,
provided that the changes are consistent with the intent of the Agreement and do not materially alter
the terms of the Agreement or the City’s obligations under the Agreement and to let the Council
know what changes were made to the Agreement; and
4. To authorize the Mayor to sign the Agreement; and
5. To make further efforts to look at the traffic safety and make sure the neighborhoods are
protected.
Mr. Seastrand seconded the motion. Those voting aye: Councilmembers Hans Andersen, Margaret
Black, Jim Evans, Karen A. McCandless, Mark E. Seastrand, and Brent Sumner. The motion passed
unanimously.
ADJOURNMENT
Mrs. McCandless moved to adjourn the meeting. Mr. Andersen seconded the motion. Those voting
aye: Councilmembers Hans Andersen, Margaret Black, Jim Evans, Karen A. McCandless, Mark E.
Seastrand, and Brent Sumner. The motion passed unanimously.
The meeting adjourned at 11:26 p.m.
Donna R. Weaver, City Recorder
Approved: April 30, 2013
City Council Minutes – April 16, 2013 (p.16)