Poynton Conundrums v1 - jaggers

Poynton Local History Society
May 2nd 2012
Some Poynton
Keith Jaggers
Poynton Conundrums:1.
18 Questions
Was Sir George Warren’s 1789 “toll bypass” built?
Where was the “Horse & Jockey” public house?
When (and why) was Lower Park Lodge built?
Is Jepson’s Tenement the same as Haybrook?
Where was Broad Oak Farm?
Norbury Hall history – when was it built? By whom?
Where exactly is Sir G. Warren’s mine drainage sough
outfall to Norbury Brook?
8. New House Farm – stables for the gang-road horses?
9. Where was/is “Worth Old Engine”?
18 Questions:
10. Where were Springfield Cottages?
11. Where was Coke Hall? (Coppice/Accommodation area)
12. Dickens Lane cottages photo – but where were they?
13. What is the origin of the “Poynton Diamond” motif?
14. What do the census property numbers refer to?
15. What is the building in the photo (London Rd N.)?
16. Evidence for; route of the 1790s colliery gangroads?
17. Location of 5 properties in 1911 census?
18. An appeal for old photographs!
Poynton Village in 1789......
2. Where was the “Horse & Jockey” PH?
• The cottages adjacent to the “Bull’s Head” pub “Salt’s Row”
were built 1845 by William Salt.
• but he was already an innkeeper in Poynton Village in
1841 (retired by 1851 at age 66)
• and back in 1828 Pigot’s Directory he is shown as
the landlord of the “Horse & Jockey”.
• so was this on the same site as the Bull’s Head?
3. When (and why) was Lower Park Lodge built?
The Wilmslow Turnpike Road
as shown on 1789 plan was
diverted along what is now
Chester Road in 1819.
The old route then became
Lower Park Road, and the
area was enclosed by gates &
lodges, by the Warren family.
However the rebuilt Lodge
carries the build date
4. Is Jepson’s Tenement the same as Haybrook?
Haybrook is a listed
building, 17th century.
Shown but never named on
the large-scale OS maps.
Prior to 1881 it is the only
building shown in the Parish
of Worth detached portion #2.
Is not named in any census
The only residence in Worth
detached 2 in the early
censuses is “Jepson’s
Tenement” let to farm
John Jepson was the
farmer at Broad Oak Farm
In 1851.....
So where was Broad Oak Farm?
(It is not “Bower Stumps”.
It is not “Walnut Tree Farm”.
It is not “Finger Post Cottages”)
1851 census: John Jepson, 36 farmer
of 15 acres employing one man.
In 1861 he is at “Brickyard Farm”.
The 1871 OS map shows this as
“Lowerpark”, and Jepson is now
farming 45 acres at “Church Lane”
These are all the same place?
6. Norbury Hall
Shown in present form on
1871 OS map
Nothing on Internet - unusual
Not a listed building (why not?)
When was it built; by whom?
7. Sir George Warren’s mine drainage sough
Constructed about 1780:
“Near the Black Hole”
“Draining pits at Cawley
Still visible in winter from
Ladybrook Trail?
8. New House Farm
The house is Victorian? But the
outbuildings are c.1790 or older?
The colliery gangroad is thought
to have run nearby on way to
Speedwell, Sargent’s etc pits.
Could these have been stables
for the gangroad horses?
9. Where was/is “Worth Old Engine”?
It was not here!
(Though there were at least 3 operational
engines in Worth Clough in 1826)
This is, and always has been,
Worth Cottage
In the colliery lease inventory of 1826,
Worth Cottage and Worth Old Engine are
mentioned separately........
? Worth Old Engine at Waterloo ?
In the 1851 Worth census, going
north from Shady Oak towards
Coppice Road, the next entry is “Old
Engine House”
However there was also still an
operational engine at Waterloo in
1826 (and until circa 1860!)
10. Where were Springfield Cottages?
Not to be confused with
Smithfield or Spring Bank
(or Sprink or Springbank on
Dicken’s Lane)
A group of 5 apparently quite
near the Macclesfield
Committee station, inhabited
mainly by railway staff, so
probably dating from 1869-70
In 1881 census, appear
adjacent to Elm Beds and
Mount Vernon entries
11. Where was Coke Hall?
In 1841 census appears
after the Accommodation
houses and before
In 1851 ditto, shown as
“Accommodation: Coke
Was it the building now
known as Bridge
Cottage, facing
Wardsend Bridge?
12. Where on Dickens Lane were these cottages?
Assuming printed the correct way
round, seem to be on the south side,
looking eastwards
The only feasible location is just
beyond Clumber House
There were indeed two cottages
there, but they were demolished
before 1906.....
13. What is the origin of the “Poynton
Diamond” motif?
Many modern interpretations
But is the oldest surviving one
that on “Oak Hurst”, London
Road South, circa 1905?
(photo right).....
Possibly from
“Black Diamonds” = Coal?
14. What do the census property numbers mean?
In some of the censuses, many properties are numbered:
e.g. Worth Clough Cottages (Petre Bank): 82-98 inclusive
Mount Vernon: 16-19
Ten Row: 124-133
Long Row: 139-162
Newtown: 198-231
The highest number found was 298. The numbers are
consistent over several censuses, but there are many gaps;
perhaps only the ones which actually carried visible numbers
were recorded?
They all appear to be Vernon Estate tenanted properties.
Up to around 195 the properties are numbered from east to
west, indicating that the scheme was started in about 1870.
After 196 the numbers are randomly scattered, indicating the
order in which they were built or purchased after 1870?
Is this to do with rent collection? Any surviving records?
15. What was the building in the photo?
London Road
North, East
side, between
the Library
Cottages and
the coal yard
Perhaps the
16. Evidence for the
1790s gangroads
1789… Sir G. Warren has developed pits
at the top of Poynton Park.....and carries
coal from the pits to his public coal
yard in Poynton village
1793 lease......together with the full and free use and enjoyment of the present
Gangroad or Railed Road and all other roads now used and enjoyed in passing
and repassing to and from aforesaid Mines.....
.....and to make a gangway or railed road from y aforesaid Coal Pits at Gees
Farm in Poynton aforesaid to join into and communicate with y aforesaid coal pit
road in Worth aforesaid.
1794......Nathaniel Wright, a lessee mentions Sir George Warren's Gangroad
in a letter. In 1795 he mentions a "railway" that was intended to be used, a line
that was "not Gees".
1796....in a lease to John Garman mention is made of the railway as it runs past
Germans Pit to Barlow House Farm......any areas "as now are or hereafter
may be damaged by the Gang Road“
Conjectural early gangroad routes?
A walk along the possible gangroads........
Top of the lake dam, from Vicarage Lane
Looking up South Park Drive.......
Turning onto South Park Drive
.....and as it was around 1900
Looking westwards back to Towers Rd
By Horsepastures, looking east
Looking eastwards up to Prince Wood
Ostler’s cottages at Horsepastures
And on the possible Gee’s tramroad route.....
View SE skirting German Pool
View N into Hawthorne Grove from Green La.
Looking N from Prince Rd crossing
Spur into Anson Pit area?
17. 1911 Census:
Where were these properties?
Do they still exist?
Hollywood Lodge
Oak Meadow
Pastures Clough
Clemata Cottage
= present Vicarage?
18. An appeal for old photographs!
Higher Barn London Road N
Barlow Fold – the garden front
Crescent Inn, London Road North Demolished c.1930
Eight Row, Chester Road (Ash Lodge there now) and
Poynton Place (or Church Row; now NatWest Bank)
both these demolished circa 1900
Bower Stumps Farm, Chester Road Gone by 1906
The Old Police Station, London Rd N. To 1950s
Beechfield – Colliery Manager’s House, prior to 1946
Keith Jaggers
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