Kinsale Community School
Tuesday, 20 th January 2015
Ber Bowen – Guidance Counsellor
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 To help parents decide upon which of the 3 programmes is most suitable for your son/daughter
 To give information on each option
 To answer any questions
 To enable you to get more information
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 Leaving Certificate Established Programme
(LCE) –Traditional Leaving Cert
 Leaving Certificate Applied Programme (LCA)
 Transition Year Programme (TY)
 It is important to give consideration to which programme the student will undertake and to do so taking account of not only what might be beneficial for the student in the short -term but in the long -term as well
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 What the student wants
 Influence of friends and what they are doing
 What parents, siblings, or significant others might advise
 The academic ability of the student
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The academic achievement of the student
The student’s disposition towards schoolwork, attendance and expectation
 What the student wishes to do after the LC
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It is really important to ensure that each student picks the course of study which suits them best – not just for academic reasons, but also for social reasons, selfconfidence reasons, self-esteem reasons and overall happiness.
A good LCA is far better than a poor traditional LC in terms of employment and the chance of obtaining a place on FE courses (such as Cork College of
Commerce or progressing onto Higher Education – universities and Institutes of Technology)
Students need to be prepared to work really hard from the start of Y5 for traditional LC and be or become selfdirected and self-motivated
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 Huge difference between Junior and Senior
Cycle
 Fewer subjects for examination so subjects are studied in greater depth
 More time given to those subjects e.g. from 3 classes to 5 per week
 The level of difficulty with regard to subjects is much higher
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All subjects are offered at honours and pass level
Irish and Maths available at foundation level also
Students will be divided into honours/pass in
Irish, English, Maths and French in Y5
Optional subjects are all taught at honours level
 The way subjects are graded is more exact, so instead of a C (55%-69%) in the JC every 5% from 40% to 90% at LC will get a different grade which in turn impacts on the overall points total
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Leaving Certificate Points Calculation Grid
 LCVP points awarded :
Distinction (80-100% )=70 pts, Merit (65-79% )=50 pts and Pass (50-64%) =30 pts
 Until 2015, 25 bonus points will be added to the points score for Leaving Certificate
Higher Level Mathematics (Grade D3 or above) .
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All Three Subjects (3)
 Irish
(Those with DES exemptions will do business)
One of the Following (1)
 French
 German
 Geography
 English
 Maths
 These subjects are vital for careers/ courses
Most should choose a language as it is very important for many courses (except if they have difficulties or an alternative language)
 Can also choose Geog as well as a language
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Geography
History
Home Economics
Physics
Chemistry
Biology
Art
Music
Business
Accounting
 Construction Studies
(known as Woodwork for JC
)
 Engineering
(known as
Metalwork for JC)
 Design and
Communication
Graphics ( known as Tech
Graph for JC)
 Applied Maths
 Agricultural Science
 Exam Religion
 LCVP (Link Modules)
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 It is highly desirable that if a student picks a subject for LC that they have taken to JC as otherwise they may be at a considerable disadvantage
 If a subject has not been taken to JC it may not be possible to do it for LC – it depends on the subject. For example taking up biology not having taken science for JC is far more difficult
(and not recommended) than say taking up
Home Economics
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Need Junior Cert
 Accounting
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Chemistry
Physics
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DCG
Engineering
Construction
Music (unless have music outside)
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Available without JC
Business
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Biology
(not recommended)
Home Economics
(JC sc helps)
 Art
Open to all
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History
Geography
Exam Religion
Applied Maths
Agricultural Science
( JC Science helps)
LCVP
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LCVP - More properly called Link Modules.
Programme Requirements for students taking Leaving Certificate
Examination from 2004 onwards
In order to qualify to register for these link modules a number of conditions must be met
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At least five Leaving Certificate subjects plus the Link Modules, one of which must be Irish (unless exempt)
Two of the above subjects must be selected from one of the designated Vocational
Subject Groupings
Two Link Modules: Preparation for the World of Work and Enterprise Education
A recognised course in a Modern European Language other than Irish or English:
What is a recognised Modern European language course for LCVP students?
The school has the discretion in this case
– there are various options open to students.
They can take a language at Junior Certificate level or they can follow one of the
FETAC language modules or the language teacher can devise a school programme in the language.
Students must take the language class for a minimum of one class period per week or equivalent over the two years of the programme within school time.
If a student is exempt from Irish for the Leaving Certificate they are automatically exempt for the LCVP and students should replace Irish with another subject.
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Vocational Subject Groupings (VSGs) 2012/2013
 Specialist Groupings
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Constr Studies; Engineering; Design and Comm Graphics Any Two
Physics and Construction Studies or Engineering or DCG
Agricultural Science and Construction Studies or Engineering or DCG
Agricultural Science and Chemistry or Physics
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Home Economics; Agricultural Science; Biology Any Two
Home Economics and Art - Design Option or Craft Option
Accounting and Business-
Physics and Chemistry
Biology and Chemistry or Physics
Biology and Agricultural Science
Art - Design Option or Craft Option and DCG
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Services Groupings
Engineering or Construction Studies or DCG and Accounting or Business
Home Economics and Accounting or Business
Agricultural Science and Accounting or Business
Art and Accounting or Business
Music and Accounting or Business
 All subjects must be studied in same centre as Link Modules (i.e. in school)
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 The LC scoring of LCVP is different:
Distinction (80%+) worth 70 pts
Merit (65%-79%) worth 50 pts
Pass (50%-64%) worth 30 pts
 This subject does not qualify them for
Matriculation purposes (NUI University entry)
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Likes/dislikes the subject – enthusiasm & interest
Being good at the subject – attainment in JC
Needing the subject for course/career choice after the Leaving Cert
Friends/parents/significant others such as siblings
Likes/dislikes the teacher, or the teacher they think will be teaching them! Not a good reason for picking a subject!
Perceived as being ‘easy’ or ‘hard’
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 Discuss subject choice with your son/daughter
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Students will be told and shown how to do as much research as possible – not all do
Do as much research yourself – excellent resources available
Be realistic – if a student did not like or excel at a subject at JC why would that change at LC
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 Contrary to popular opinion, there are only a few required subjects for careers/ College entry.
 Most requirements involve core subjects of Irish, English,
Maths and a Language.
 The main other subjects specified in College courses are science subjects – One for many courses, 2 for some and sometimes specifying e.g. Chemistry. Chemistry and one other lab sc covers requirements for most serious science courses
So research needs to be done if science is being considered as a serious option.
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Useful or Required?
 Most other courses/ careers do not specifically require subjects but they are of course useful. e.g. You do not need Accounting in
Leaving Cert to study Accounting in College ; But it helps.
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If serious about any area ( business, art, science, practical, technical, etc) then the choice of related subjects is easy and obvious
It is quite possible to study 3 sciences, 3 technical subjects, 2-3 creative subjects, 2 business subjects and students do so successfully every year
 If not focused on any particular area a popular choice is one science, one business and one other subject. It covers most course entry and career options
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Handout available outlining what each of the subjects entails – the types of skills and aptitudes necessary for the subject
Handout will supplement the sources of information highlighted in this presentation
Again the more research that is undertaken re subjects and possible future course choices the more likely the student will pick the right subjects www.qualifax.ie
(click on students, then subject choice, then minimum subject requirements) www.careersportal.ie
(very comprehensive)
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 Decision needs to be made about which programme will be applied for.
 Detailed TY application form (given tonight) should be returned to school office for the attention of Ms Hay
 LCA application will be dealt with by Ms Kelly
 Traditional LC - Subject Choice Form will be given to those going straight to Y5 and should be returned to Ms K O’Brien
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Students going into Y5 will be given more detailed talk by guidance counsellors to go along with the form asking them to indicate what subjects they wish to choose.
In this initial open choice the student will be asked for their 4 subjects in order of preference. This includes a back-up subject
It is vital that students and parents research and seriously consider this choice as it determines the subject blocks that will eventually be presented to students
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KCS 5Y Options for 2015/2016
NAME: ___________________________
IRISH
Circle one of the following: Irish/ Business (for those with DES exemption document only)
LANGUAGES
Circle one of the following: French/ German/ Geography
OPTIONS SUBJECTS
Choose ANY FOUR of the following subjects in order of preference.
Home Economics
Biology
Physics
Examination Religion
Art
Agricultural Science
Geography
Accounting
Applied Maths
LCVP
History
Construction Studies
DCG
Engineering
1 st choice: _________________________
2 nd
3 rd choice:_________________________ choice:__________________________
4 th choice:__________________________
Business
Music
Chemistry
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Procedures around Subject Choice
•3 Bands will be generated from these preferences and we will endeavour to allow you to study 3 of the subjects you have chosen.
•A subject may not be viable to run if numbers are too small
•Please ensure that if you choose LCVP in any band that the other subjects you choose qualify you to do it (see attached document)
•Please do not choose the same subject more than once
Please return this form completed to the Deputy Principal’s office by
1pm on the specified date on the form.
If a student returns the form late, they may not get their chosen subjects. If the form is filled incorrectly (eg. 3 choices instead of 4), the form will be returned to you and this may also cause delay and have repercussions for subject allocation.
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See school Guidance Counsellors with any questions.
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 The purpose of the free choice is to try to ensure that as many students as possible get as many of their preferred subjects as possible
 While the school tries to ensure that students get their choice, students and parents need to be aware there is no guarantee of students getting all their subject choices
 When the blocks have been set (these will not change once set), students will be made aware of the subjects they will be taking in Fifth Year
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Our experience has been that those for whom LCA might be the most suitable option are more likely to choose the
LCA option if they do not undertake TY but its not impossible
A comprehensive handout on traditional LC subject choice is available at the end of the talks outlining each optional subject so please take this if student is considering going straight to Y5
There will a more detailed talk for parents of TY on subject choice on next Tues, 27 th Jan and you are welcome to attend
Those who may have questions about traditional LC, or other career or educational related questions related to
TY or LCA, please feel free to contact Ms Bowen in school or email berbowen@gmail.com
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