Did God really say?
2012 LLC Summer Services Youth Discussion
Adapted by Eric Jurmu from presentations by
Keijo Nissila;
“The mystery of faith”- 1994
“Hath God said”- 2012
Did God really say?
• From where did this question come?
• Why was this question asked?
• People generally ask when they want to know
about something.
• But it is possible to ask for other purposes.
• A question can raise doubt.
• The evil one asked of Eve: “Did God truly say?”
• What does this question mean? Or imply?
Man – In the image of
God, and his
companion.
In the beginning God
created heaven and the
earth.
God created everything
with His word, and saw
that it was good.
God created man in his
image and as a
companion.
The snake – a picture
of the enemy of the
soul and the enemy of
God
“The serpent was more
subtil than any beast of
the field which the Lord
God had made” (Gen3:1)
First, the serpent is a
symbol of understanding,
wisdom and cunning.
Secondly, the serpent is
connected to death. A
serpent is dangerous. It is
poisonous. A snake bite
can lead to death.
The serpent begins
the discussion
It opened the
discussion with “Did
God actually say?”
What was the intent
of the question?
The serpents word is
set against God’s word
Did God say “ye
cannot eat of every
tree of the garden?”
“A small hook catches
big fish”
Eve’s Reply
“But of the fruit of the
tree which is in the midst
of the garden, God hath
said, Ye shall not eat of
it, neither shall ye touch
it, lest ye die.” Gen 3:3
Eve did not contradict
what God had said; she
said more than God had
said.
How should have Eve
replied?
The serpent debates or
disputes God’s word
“And the serpent said
unto the woman, Ye
shall not surely die:”
Gen 3:4
“But that you would
rather become as
gods”
The voice of reason
led to doubts
The fall into all falls The fall into sin
The conversation with the
serpent concludes and Eve is
left in her own thoughts.
She is tempted to go from
thoughts and words, to action.
“And when the woman saw
that the tree was good for
food, and that it was pleasant
to the eyes, and a tree to be
desired to make one wise, she
took of the fruit thereof, and
did eat, and gave also unto her
husband with her; and he did
eat.” Gen 3:6
The consequences of
the fall into sin
And the eyes of them
both were opened...
Gen 3:7 not as god’s but
to shame.
God asks 2 questions:
“Who told you that you
were naked?”
“Have you eaten from
that tree which I
commanded you not to
eat?”
The forbidden fruit of the forbidden tree is a
picture of the mystery of faith. It was a trial of
obedience. Faith is obedience. Obedience, on its
part, is part of the fellowship into which God
created man. Obedience is hearing what God
speaks and following it in faith. The fall began
with man allowing himself to listen to the
sermon of God’s Adversary. At the same time
man ceased hearing and following God’s will.
• The temptation in paradise was to be able to
enjoy the good and beautiful fruit and to come to
know and understand all things like God.
• Thus reason guided man and the pleasures of his
senses tempted him.
• After the fall into sin, each person is susceptible
to the sermon of God’s Adversary, which appeals
to reason and enjoyment of the senses.
• Man wasn’t able to honor the mystery of faith.
Honoring the mystery of faith is the road of selfdenial. The voice of reason lead away from the
place of an obedient child. Man wanted to satisfy
his own will more than God’s will.
• The relationship between faith and reason
was distorted by the fall into sin.
• Faith was a condition of the unity of
fellowship between God and Man.
• Reason was given to man so that he could
cultivate and care for paradise.
Faith and Reason
Faith
Reason
• Faith is spiritual.
• Reason is carnal.
– The Bible is not a
textbook of natural
science, geography,
medical science or
history.
– The Bible is the textbook
of one matter alone,
which is faith.
– Reason is prone to turn
against the written word
of God.
– The Bible is often
expected to answer
questions which come
from reason.
What Faith Is
• The Bible, generally speaking, does not
describe faith.
• “Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the
evidence of things not seen. … Through faith
we understand that the worlds were framed
by the word of God, so that things which are
seen were not made of things which do
appear.” (Heb. 11:1,3)
Faith is hope.
• Faith reaches what is ahead of us, and what
we otherwise would not be able to
experience. With faith the future is present
immediately. In faith, the object of hope
affects here and now, even though the matter
in question is in the future, not yet
experienced. But faith believes that it will
happen and lives in accord with it and receives
strength for life from it.
Abraham
• Abraham’s faith
was obedience
to God’s call
and trust upon
God’s guidance.
• Abraham’s faith
was hope.
• Faith leads from
this day unto
tomorrow.
• Faith is directed
towards that
which we can’t
see. Thus faith is
the evidence of
things not seen.
• Faith functions
like a telescope.
Noah
• Noah’s faith was
the evidence of
things not seen.
• Noah’s faith was
contrary to reason
and to people’s
general opinion.
• Noah’s faith upon
things not seen
caused people to
ridicule him.
One Mystery of Faith Today
• The foundation of the family is marriage.
• Before marriage there is a time of courtship
and engagement.
• After marriage the mystery of man and
woman is unlocked.
• "Has God truly said so?"
Faith is God’s Gift
• The Bible states that all can’t believe, as faith
isn’t for every man. (2 Thess. 3:2)
• The gospel is the mystery of God, which is
hidden from the world, but is manifested and
revealed to believers.
• The gospel is the power of God unto salvation.
(Rom. 1:16)
The highest example of
faith is the Lord Jesus
Christ: For future
heavenly joy, He endured
the world’s ridicule and
suffering on the cross,
and now sits on the right
hand of God’s throne.
Hebrews encourages,
“For consider him that
endured such
contradiction of sinners
against himself, lest ye be
wearied and faint in your
minds.” (Heb. 12:3)
Discussion Questions
• In which matters does faith help us to see,
understand, and hope?
• In which questions of life do we experience the
mystery of faith?
• How do we care for the gift of faith in a good
conscience?
• How is the mystery of faith revealed in courtship
and marriage?
• Is there reason to remember our brother and
sisters in faith today?