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Advanced
Coaching & Consulting
Boot Camp
Transcript
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Dan:
Dave Dee asked me if I had done my Tony Robbin’s energy yells, and
I told him Bill does the yells for both of us. You missed that. He was out
earlier in the hall doing his yells and his “Whoa yeahs,” or “Yeah,
whoas” hand claps and all that stuff. If you had gotten here earlier, you
could’ve seen that.
I said last night to the IBAs, I spent all day yesterday with a client,
Harvey Zemel, who is here from London. All day long, it occurred to
me the proximity of doing a consulting day with somebody, and then
the next day, teaching them what you were doing to them. It probably
would’ve been better with a little time lapse gone by.
Here we are, and for starters, a reminder of what you are at. What you
are not at is a session about any of the basics of either the consulting
or the coaching business, any that work their way in will be buy
accident, or as part of an answer to a question. I will limit that so
there’s a certain amount of presumed knowledge in the room, and if
you lack it, you’ll have to go get it after the fact, backwards.
I’m not going to spend much time on the twelve ways you can structure
a coaching program and that sort of thing. This is largely about the
handling of the client, and it doesn’t matter whether we’re talking about
the client as a member of a coaching program, or the client is a one on
one coaching or consulting relationship.
I’ll use the word “client” interchangeably, and most of what we talk
about applies to any and all of those circumstances. So, mostly we’re
going to be talking about the getting of, although most of that will be
tomorrow, and the control of, and the extracting of maximum money
from, and the keeping of, and the multiplying of.
That’s what we’re going to spend most of our time on, and some of it
will be emotionally uncomfortable for some of you, I am sure.
Everytime I talk about a tactic, I’m not going to take the time to make
you feel ethically, morally, spiritually and metaphysically healthy about
it. I’ll take the time to do that maybe two or three times during the entire
day.
Some of what we’re going to be talking about is literally about how to
without them noticing it, pick their pockets. If that is really troubling to
you, you may have a tough day.
As Howard was complaining yesterday, our schedule is we’re starting
now. We’ll break about six o’clock for dinner. There will be a bathroom
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There is a certain amount of what I call the world’s longest beard
problem, which is an old story about a guy with the world’s longest
beard. They go to interview him up in the mountains of West Virginia.
The interviewer asks him, “Does he sleep with the beard under the
covers or outside the covers?” He never got a good night sleep again.
There’s a certain amount of things that I long ago stopped doing
consciously that I now do unconsciously. I’ve trained myself to do
them, and do them all the time, and never give them any thought.
I realize I’m actually now doing them when I don’t need to do them
anymore, and actually it’s not necessarily congruent with my
objectives, but I’m still doing it because I ingrained it.
It’s sometimes hard to consciously back all that out, and enunciate it in
conscious instructions. I have done my best, but again, you will get
more out of me if you ask me questions because you may provoke
something that did not occur to me while I was preparing.
You may have observed something about what I do or what Bill does
or what Glazer Kennedy does that we are doing unconsciously, and I
may not mention it unless you ask about it.
By the way, most people including most Glazer Kennedy members
come and go viewing us on only one level. So, if they come to the
Super Conference, they like get out of it what’s on the educational
motivational entertaining level for them.
They hear the speakers. They take notes about what the speakers say.
They meet people. They network, etc. What they don’t do on a
simultaneous mental track is observe how we’re doing that Super
Conference, and try and figure out why we’re doing this this way and
why we’re doing this this way.
I have one client for years, his whole note taking thing is like three
pads. One is content. One is why are they doing it the way they’re
doing it, and one is how can I apply that to my business.
The thing that you should know and will become abundantly apparent
from me during the two days that we’re together is that pretty much
nothing you see us do is accidental, or random. It’s all pretty strategic
and thought out, and if to the point of unconscious now, it was
originally consciously thought out.
To use a conference as an example, there’s meticulous thought about
body movement and where this thing gets positioned in a room, and
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what speaker goes in front of what speaker, and how many minutes
everybody gets, and what gets said first when somebody steps up to
the stage, and on and on and on.
So, the same is true pretty much with everything I do. If you’re really
astute and really make a point of it, there’s a multi-layered educational
value in getting the newsletter for example. You can read it for pure
entertainment, and it’s built to facilitate that.
You can read it just to get marketing ideas and examples, but then you
can read it on the third layer, of how it is structured, and why is it being
done in a certain way in order to get a member, keep a member,
ascend a member, getting money from a member.
Really, there’s a whole nother way to study that piece that you get from
us that most people it does not occur to them, and quite frankly, that’s
okay. I’m not sure it’s beneficial to us to have it occur to everybody. I’m
just pointing it out to you because you paid your money.
I’m not actually sure that having done this was very smart with 20/20
hindsight as I prepared it, but here we are, so there is this layer of what
are they up to? Why did they do this? Why did he talk about this? Why
did he put this in the newsletter?
For the people in this room, I think it is sort of important and that you
ought to be paying attention to. You have a big fat take home book in
front of you. We’re mostly going to work out of the book. Today, we’re
going to deal with sections one through three, and some of the sample
documents. Tomorrow, we’re going to deal with sections four and five
and the rest of the sample documents.
So, let’s get started. If you jump – there are page numbers shortly, the
first few pages in front of section one aren’t numbered. So, if you just
jump into a couple pages in, you’re going to find a page that looks like
this.
I just wanted to briefly mention some of the things that are very
relevant to what we’re going to be talking about in the next two days.
One is that I’ve been in the consulting business since like the
beginning.
I did something else for one year after getting out of high school, and
then at least some part of my life was consulting and taking money
from people for dispensing advice and opinions and eventually
dispensing work product.
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In the earliest years, and in the years when I paid the least attention to
it, there wasn’t a year that I made less than 100k, and that goes back
to 1975 when 100K was some serious money.
In terms of coaching, we didn’t call it that then, but my earliest
experience with coaching was in what was called, and still is, practice
management in chiropractic and dental in 1977, 1978, 1979
somewhere in there.
We were selling a $30,000 what we would now call coaching program
to chiropractors when $30,000 was serious money. It’s interesting that
in a sense, nothing much changes. This is the old original brochure
from that, and here’s what they got for their $30,000.
Actually, we gave more than we do. They got eight mastermind
meetings. They got two staff training seminars. They got system
oriented training, meaning what you do in your office, which really is a
fancy word for where they got a big notebook like you just got.
They got non-system training meaning the head-trip stuff and
communication skills and so forth, which really means they got a
second big notebook like you just got.
They got a complete set of audio and video materials. They got a
monthly newsletter. They got a monthly staff newsletter. They had
monthly accountability, which is pretty painless giving them because
only two percent of them used monthly accountability.
Monthly accountability in this coaching program was fill out a four page
form about what happened in your practice this month before your one
on one coaching call. Well, you never saw forms because if you ask
people to do something.
Continuing telephone consulting, so they had a coach assigned to
them that they talked to on a regular basis, and an initial training like a
fast start day that they came to.
We were selling that for $30,000 in either ’77, ’78, or ’79. I lose track,
and at peak that business had 600 and some odd doctors at $30,000 a
piece a year.
This is not like new, and what may be new to you isn’t anymore than
the Tony yell is new. It goes back a long, long way, at least to the
1930s. So, there’s not a lot new under the sun.
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It may be new to you. It certainly is new to your clients. It keeps getting
kind of a new wrapper around it, but a lot of what we’re doing and a lot
of what you’re going to see during these two days has some pretty
deep roots.
KEEPING CLIENTS INTERESTED
Significant for me, and significant about what we’re going to talk about
is that I’ve maintained over 70% of my client relationships for long
periods of years. There are clients with me for ten years. There’s
clients with me for twenty years. There’s a few with me go ing on 25
years.
Even as my compensation demands have escalated and escalated
and escalated far out of pace with the rate of inflation, they stay and
they keep coming back. I don’t mention that so much to brag as to say
to you there’s a science to that.
The getting of clients is the most expensive thing you’ll ever do, and
initially, if all of that is new to you, it’ll be an exciting thing to do when
somebody says yes, and somebody writes out a check and signs a
contract, or somebody joins a program. You will be incredibly excited
and enthused about that.
Give it a few years, and it will be a routine and necessary event. It will
not be the thing that is exciting, and so the retention of the client
becomes ever more important.
I’ve got people in coaching who have been with me for ten years in
coaching groups, and as an aside, what is significant about that is
they’ve long since stopped being there for the core reasons of the
coaching. They could all conduct a coaching meeting in my absence.
Their retention is about something other than that. It is the something
other than that that is pretty important, and the third part of that is all of
that goes on with me being very dictatorial, as one client pointed out,
you could make that a play on words, in my relationships with my
clients.
They’re staying around and continuing to give me money, and asking
to give me money more than I will take it, and asking me to more than I
am willing to do with me dictating to them virtually every aspect of the
relationship, and being rather difficult to deal with by most standards.
There’s two lessons in that, and we’ll get to them as we go along.
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So, some people will say, “Well, you can do that with entrepreneurs,
but you can do it with corporate clients.” You can. I have had and have
now major corporate clients. I don’t seek them. I haven’t have a lot of
them because they’re a giant pain in the rear, but you can do it.
Everything we’ll talk about in these two days is equally applicable to a
Fortune 1,000 client if that happens the kind of field you’re in as it is to
an entrepreneur client, or as it is if you’re a high-end financial planner
or you’re a cosmetic dentist or a cosmetic surgeon to the individual
consumer.
You might be sitting across the desk from all of the same principles, all
of the same strategies apply equally. My clients have included Fortune
Fives, Fortune Ones, those giving a million at a time instead of
$30,000 at a time. The numbers change. The strategies, the
arrangements, the management of the client does not change.
It’s very important to get the “my business is different, my client is
different, my customer is different” out of your head, if at all possible
sometime in the next five minute so it doesn’t get in your way during
the next 20-some odd hours.
I’ve got to tell you, everybody in this room conceptually knows that that
should be out of your way. Many of you are now turning around and
teaching it to people that, no your business is not different.
That doesn’t mean you still don’t have in your head, “My business is
different.” I did two consulting days this week, and one of them I did
with people who have been with me for a number of years, and are
pretty successful and pretty smart and conceptually know, intellectually
know it, and yet, sit there the whole day saying things that reflect a
belief system that, “Yeah, but, our clients are really different.”
In fact, I will hear often from people, “I know our business isn’t
different, but…” and, then they will proceed to tell you the five reasons
why their business is really different. So, even those of you who are
now turning around and teaching to other people that, no, their
businesses really aren’t different. It’s very easy to have it creep back
into your own head about your business or your clients or your
situation.
Anytime it creeps in, it’s self-sabotage. It’s in the way. What I’m talking
about here is absolutely universal, and my career experience kind of
proves it.
I would point out that these sort of methods work just as well for
amateurs and novices as they do for experienced professionals.
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Probably the best evidence that you can go from zero to sixty in
coaching and or consulting without necessarily much background in it
is the Glazer Kennedy Independent Business Advisor program that we
created.
About half of the room here is made up of people who are independent
business advisors, although they are part-time, some spare time, they
all have things that they’re doing.
YOU CAN
DO IT
NOW
Some of them have other coaching or consulting businesses, but some
of them do not. They are lickity split, got coaching groups formed, and
are making $10,000 a month, $15,000 a month, $20,000 a month in
their local areas.
In some cases, including people – and I don’t want to embarrass them,
but including people in the room who couldn’t spell “coach” before we
got them, and they’re merrily coaching and taking money for it.
You also should not have in your head that you need another thirteen
years before you dare do some of these things. Almost everything that
I’ll talk about in these two days, I’m mostly talking about what I do now,
but ninety percent of it is the same as what I did ten years ago, twenty
years ago, including when I could ill-afford to do it economically or
when I had absolutely no qualifications or recognition or any of that in
order to base it on.
So, I’ll often hear from people when I discuss this stuff with them
privately, I’ll get the, “Yeah, but you’re Dan Kennedy, and I’m Charlie
Rabinowitz who nobody knows so I don’t dare do that stuff.” They miss
the point that to get to be Dan Kennedy, I did that stuff. It’s not, you’ve
got to wait. This business is a lot about cart before horse, not horse
before cart.
The last thing I’ll say sort of in preparation about all this is that I’m
basically telling you what I do. There is more than one way to be right. I
can only tell you my way because that’s what I do. Occasionally, I’ll
show you somebody else’s example, but there is more than one way to
be right.
However, I can tell you my was is a way to be right, and so if you’re
looking for a model that works, you came to the right place. Question
yourself whether you should disagree or not.
I did want to quickly show you, some people are here and some are
not here. Here’s this year’s platinum group, and I wanted to make
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mention of a few people. I know Ron Caruthers is here because I saw
him this morning. Ron’s over here.
Ron is in the consulting business essentially financial consulting for
families, belatedly getting ready to try to get their kids into good
colleges.
Actually, I want to hear from you. Would you jump up here and let’s
see, who else is here? Michael, Tucker, is O’keefe here? Dave Dee
and Charlie Martin. I know you guys are all here. If you would, jump up
here really quick.
Just give you a sense of diversity of what’s going on. Ron, you first
grab the mike if you would. Actually, first of all do me a favor and stand
up. Face the crowd. Just take a good look at him.
Now, imagine you’re a 55 year old fairly successful guy with gray hair
who’s thinking about getting your kid into Harvard. Is this exactly the
look of the person? It just shows – we’re going to talk about costuming
later. You can defy it. You look like you just crawled out of bed.
Ron:
I did.
Dan:
So, very quickly describe your business, the fees, how it works.
Ron:
I deal with all the parents who forgot to save money for college, and
roughly take 150 to 200 new clients a year. We charge $35,000 per
student to come in and have us basically handle stuff for them.
Dan:
Do you want to say the fee again?
Ron:
Thirty-five thousand dollars.
Dan:
Where was it three years ago?
Ron:
Eleven hundred dollars.
Dan:
That’s the point I wanted to make. How much of what you deliver has
changed?
Ron:
Nothing. We package it up in a gift basket they get for writing the
$35,000 check is nicer than they one they got for the $1,100 check, but
that’s it.
Dan:
Core value?
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Ron:
Nothing.
Dan:
It’s a really important demonstration, and actually you could like leave
now, and you’d have your money’s worth. Describe it and let’s talk
about speed.
Mike:
Coaching plus business teaching, I’m in the mortgage business sort of.
I teach other mortgage brokers how to do what I do where they live
which is essentially just keep it simply, teach homeowners eliminate all
their debt using the equity in their home, which kind of sounds
backwards.
Now, I’m doing a coaching plus program for these brokers. It’s
monthly, $1,500 a month, and they get everything I do taught by me to
them, all my vendors, all my processes, presentations, marketing
pieces, everything.
Dan:
Fee.
Mike:
$1,500 a month.
Dan:
How many do you have?
Mike:
Sixty.
Dan:
How fast did you get there?
Mike:
Real quick. In the beginning of last September I had six, and by the
end of September, I had 55, and we moved into the sixties the month
after that with the seminar.
Dan:
Dave, let’s go back to you and talk about consulting first.
Dave:
I’m Dave Dee. We’ve got two different coaching groups. One is a
private coaching group where I’m getting one on one coaching. I
charge $30,000 a person, plus five percent of their business. So, that
works out pretty well.
Then, the other one that I just started was an information marketing
coaching group which is $10,000 a year. We just started, and in two
days we put in twenty members. It worked out pretty well.
Dan:
Charlie?
Charlie:
I’m Charlie Martin. I’m a dentist from Richmond, Virginia. I have a
dental practice and a coaching program. My program is a membership
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exclusive program. We have 28 in it right now, and it’s a two year
commitment. It’s $55,000.
Dan:
When did you start?
Charlie:
First meeting was September.
Scott:
I’m Scott Tucker. I’m a subprime loan officer and mortgage broker in
Chicago. I do only subprime refinances, no purchase, no prime Apaper business. I have 165 coaching members paying $1,500 a month.
That’s three million dollars a year, and in about the first year and a half,
I had that many members. It can be done very quickly.
What Mike didn’t tell you is he had six members for almost nine
months, and then he went to sixty members in two or three months.
So, it can be done very quickly if you allow yourself to do that.
Dan:
Thank you gentleman, you may return. Who gets what I just did and
more importantly why I did it? I took the time to whatever terminology
use for it, but to establish authority even though you guys all know me,
and we already have a pre-existent relationship.
Obviously, you pretty much bought into the fact that I have the right to
teach this thing or you wouldn’t have written the check and been here
in the first place.
In spite of all that, I took the time to establish the specific authority for
the specific topic that we’re going to spend two days on in part through
demonstration.
Now, why go to all that trouble? Well, first of all, how long has it been
since you read the sales letter that brought you here? Well, for a few of
you, a day or two, but for most of you perhaps probably weeks or a
month or two months, which means you don’t remember the sales
letter that brought you here.
So, everything that I said in the sales letter that got you here has long
since left your mind. It isn’t just about remaking the sale. It is about
getting control of you for the next two days.
I have taken the time to go back through and reestablish my right to sit
up here and talk to you about this topic. It’s an extremely important
lesson, and by lesson what I mean is that it pretty much needs to
happen every single time.
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You can not operate on the basis of gee we’ve had a relationship for
three years, so they know me. He knows me. She knows me. I don’t
need to resell them. I don’t need to remind them of why they’re giving
me money, and I don’t need to retake control. Yes, you do, virtually
every single time.
Virtually every single time you put them in a coaching room, every
single time you sit down with them one on one, there should be some
exercise. It may only be five minutes. I may be all it takes, but there
should be some exercise of reestablishing what the relationship is,
meaning you whatever your position is – brilliant genius experienced
old grizzled wise veteran of your industry, a person extremely adept at
making people rich in a hurry.
Whatever your position is, you need to reestablish it, and you need to
reestablish the relationship which is me chief, you Indian, me
instructor, you student. So, don’t miss the point.
THEIR WAY VS. OUR WAY
Consulting/Coaching As A Job Or A Business
Let’s start on page one, which should be immediately after your tabbed
divider. A few very quick things to say about it, just about everything
that I do is completely contrary to what would be taught to you about
the coaching or the consulting business from any traditional source.
So, for example, if you happen to go to Coach University or some
variation of it, no disrespect to those folks, or if you hang out in the
coach subsection special interest group of the National Speakers
Association, or you go to the book store and buy a book about this.
You are going to find a very different set of premises about these
businesses that are premises. First of all, you are going to find that
they are mired in a hour’s for dollars culture. So, it’s all about how to
charge $75 an hour and talk to somebody on the phone, isn’t this
cool?, or how to make $750 a day or $1,000 a day.
The entire culture is all about trading a block of time for a block of
money. As a practical matter, first of all, that’s not a business. Just so
you know, that’s a job, and secondly, it has no leverage. It has no
multiplier effect.
Therefore, you will eventually reach a point where you actually can get
so much from them per hour or per dollar, and regardless of value,
they won’t give you anymore. You will eventually be unhappy with it
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because you will be capped, and there’s only so many hours. You can
only stand to do what you do so long.
Ultimately, every psychologist doesn’t want to be a psychologist
anymore, and every lawyer doesn’t want to be a lawyer anymore, and
every CPA doesn’t want to be a CPA anymore because they’re like
stuck. They get to a certain point, and they’re stuck.
In this pure exchange of dollars for time, from your standpoint or from
my standpoint, what we do for them, we can’t take enough money from
them for it to be an accurate representation of the value.
If in a day, I take a guy with a million dollar a year business, and I
reengineer the business so he goes home and has a ten million dollar
a year business, arguably, I should’ve got nine million bucks for the
day. He can start making his money in the second year.
I don’t care how good I am at everything I’m going to show you these
two days, getting somebody to write the nine million dollar check for
the day, it’s like too much. Maybe there’s somebody out there getting it
that I don’t know yet, but it’s like too much.
If you go to a therapist for six sessions and they save your marriage,
how much is that worth? Well, it’s worth a lot more than anybody is
willing to pay them. Some therapists get a lot more than others
because of these techniques, but still the therapist is grossly
underpaid.
The client ultimately feels they are overpaying because they are
viewing it as an exchange of minutes for money. So, Billy Bob who is
your client sits down and figures out how much he’s making in his
business per hour. I make $140 an hour, and I’m paying this lunatic
$5,000 an hour. Something’s wrong here.
The entire premise is like suicidal. It eventually leads to everybody
being unhappy. The clients are unhappy. You’re unhappy. Everybody
is unhappy. You’ve got to get out of that box in as many different ways
as you can.
You should know that all of the traditional training, and if you go hang
around with any other traditionalist, they are all about putting you in
that box and staying in that box. They have a disapproving viewpoint of
everything that is done outside of that box.
Our $30,000 coaching program for doctors in the late 1970s was sold
as cash out of percentage above base. So, every quickly let me
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explain that to you. Percentage above base is a way of getting paid.
We’ll talk about it later, its pros and its cons and whatever.
Percentage above base is essentially in that case sitting down with the
doctor and saying, “Okay, how much did you do last year?” I’ll do
simple numbers. I did $100,000, and the rate of inflation is ten percent.
How much growth did you have last year over the year before? Ten
percent.
So, rate of inflation ten, growth ten, so we’re going to give you twenty.
We’re going to set your base at $120,000 for the first year of the
agreement. We’re going to roll another twenty and set the base at
$140,000 for the second year. We’re going to put another twenty
percent on it then, and set it at $168,000 whatever that is for the third
year, that’s your base.
Now, we get thirty percent of everything that gets created above base.
Well, they’ll agree to that by the way because it’s air. They don’t
believe it’s going to happen anyway.
Then, if you can convince them that they’re going to go to half a million
every year, and you pencil out what they’re going to wind up paying
you. They can discount all that out by giving you $30,000 all at one
time. It becomes pretty easy to get the $30,000 especially if you can
manage to get them financed. That’s how that’s sold.
Everything You Need
To Know About
“LADDERS”
What’s important about all that is I’m just giving you an example of how
we got out of the boxes of talking about hours. What we’re going to
deliver now is irrelevant. It’s the money outcome that is relevant.
The second thing is that all of the traditionalists have an academic
orientation about these businesses, and by that I mean two things.
Number one, they’re hung up on credentials and qualifications and
certifications and do you have the appropriate letters of the alphabet
after your name to allow you to consult with people in this subject area,
or to coach people in this subject area.
What is extremely important to understand about that is nobody cares
except the people issuing the letters of the alphabet after the name. No
one else cares. The market place does not care at all. It’s not an
advantage. It’s not a disadvantage. By and large, they don’t ask.
I have maybe five times in thirty years been directly asked if I went to
college, maybe five times, and maybe another five times indirectly
because they assume. The question is, “What school did you go to?”
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So, the assumption is there. Nobody has refused to write the check, so
it doesn’t matter.
They’re all about these permissions to go do these businesses, and
you don’t need anybody’s permission to do any of it. You just go do it.
The other thing is that the academic orientation leads them to ladder
thinking. Now, ladder thinking is very important for you to get
everybody else to do. You want to show everybody you take money
from ladders because they’ve all been conditioned to climb one if you
stick it front of them.
You want to be sticking one in front of them, and as soon as they get to
the top of that one, you want to be sticking another one in front of
them, and another one in front of them, and another one in front of
them because they’ll climb it.
It’s very important never to climb one, so you’ve got to show other
people ladders, but if somebody shows you a ladder, you’ve got to
laugh at it. You’ve got to know that a bunch of us sat in a room and
figured out the ladder.
We figured out the ladder for one reason and one reason only, to
control people. That’s why we figured it out.
Boy Scouts of America has a ladder. A bunch of people sat in a room
and figured it out so they could control the kids and the parents. That’s
what it’s there for, and it isn’t there for any other reason.
So, it is with every single ladder including some I could mention that
would probably offend some people. It’s really important for you to
laugh at them, but to make sure you construct them. It’s one of the
best ways to control people.
Last, they’re all mired in poverty consciousness. If you have most
Coach U folks here, and you had some NSA culture coaches here, and
you had some Life Coach Institute graduates here, and you had a few
MBAs and Booz Allen consultants, and we had forty or fifty of them
hanging around. We let them hear just what was said at the table a few
minutes ago, they would either all run screaming from the room, or
they would be trying to get our certifications yanked from wherever the
devil we got them in the first place.
How dare you charge that kind of money? It would start there, so they
are mired in their own version of a poverty outlook. They have in their
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head you should only be able to make so much money, and that’s so
much better than what everybody else makes an hour, so that’s fair.
There’s a continuous conversation going on about the ratio between
CEO pay and worker pay and how there should be some sort of
formulaic multiple between what the CEO gets. It should only be
sixteen what the lowest paid worker gets. It shouldn’t be eighteen
times, and it certainly shouldn’t be 180 time, and it certainly shouldn’t
be 1,800 times what the lowest worker gets.
This conversation, by the way, has been going on since the industrial
revolution. It ain’t a new debate. It was being screamed about Henry
Ford and Andrew Carnegie then, and it’s being screamed about now.
Admittedly, the multiple has gotten a little bigger, but so has the value
differential. It ignores, where does the value come from in the
conversation?
These people have the same kind of multiple formula in their heads of,
“Okay, a psychiatrist makes X, so we should only make X, a lawyer
makes X, so we should only make X.” If you hang around them, that’s
what you get in your head, and you don’t want it there.
Your monetary compensation is based on a combination of actual
value, as value defined by the recipient not as it is defined by you, and
what you can get. Those are the two criteria.
So, Caruthers is such a great example because $1,100, $30,000.
Which would you rather have? Is it unconscionable? Not if a sufficient
number of people are willing to pay it. That determines it’s perfectly
conscionable. They should get to choose, not the National Board of
College Planning Consultants, if there is such a thing.
They shouldn’t get evoked. Lou Dobbs shouldn’t get evoked if enough
people are willing to pay $35,000 for that service, then that tells you
the service is worth $35,000 to enough people to at least support him.
It immediately says, “Gee, maybe they’ll pay $37,800,” and that doesn’t
sound like much, but how many clients did you take care of last year?
If it’s a hundred year and we go from 35 to 37.8, and it doesn’t make
any difference to the client, but it does make $280,000 difference to
him.
We’ve got to think about that. So, you want to ignore almost everything
you hear from traditional sources.
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How To Think To Make Maximum Money In
Consulting/Coaching
Your next page. In a sense, almost everything we do today will have to
do with this, and in another sense it won’t because I’ll be as practical
and pragmatic as I can, but the truth is most of the success in the
coaching and consulting businesses had to do with what’s going on in
your head more than anything else.
It has to do with your attitudes about yourself and about money, your
bravado, the size of your cajones, your ability to keep a straight face
when you quote a fee, those sorts of things. They really are self image
related. They’re attitudinal related, and they are not really related to
anything else.
What’s kind of important to understand is there are no moorings for this
business. In almost all other businesses, they’re mistaken too, but a lot
of businesses have sort of a relationship somehow that leads to price.
In retail, it’s double it. Buy it for fifty cents, sell it for a hundred. In direct
response TV, it’s eight to ten times. The first thing that happens in a
conversation about doing anything on direct response TV is, “We’ve
got to have an eight to ten times multiple of product cost. So, if it costs
a buck, we have to be able to sell it for eight dollars or ten dollars. If we
can’t sell it for eight dollars or ten dollars, we’re not going to do it, and
we’re probably not going to sell it for more than twelve dollars.”
There’s a relationship to something that has something to do with
price. In this business, there are no such moorings. There is no such
relationship.
To a great degree in the information product business, there is no such
mooring either. Just to prove that we could do it, many years ago, I had
a client who was a consultant on theft control to the supermarket and
convenient store industry. We sold from the front of the room a single
audio cassette tape and a number ten envelope with a piece of paper
in it for five hundred dollars. They saw that was what they were getting.
We didn’t hide it. So, you held up a tape and you held up an envelope
with one piece of paper in it, and you sold it for $500.
Now, understand that you could sit with the folks at Nightingale Conant
for the next decade, and not convince them that you could sell a single
cassette tape and a piece of paper in an envelope for $500. You could
sit at Simon & Schuster for a decade, and you couldn’t convince them
that you could do this.
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If you sat at NSA, you might convince a few people that you could do
it, but then they would all report you to the ethics committee because
they would think there was something not ethical about selling a single
cassette tape and a piece of paper in an envelope for $500.
See, it has to do with what’s on the cassette tape and what’s on the
piece of paper, right? It doesn’t have to do with the media, but
traditionally and historically, there’s a mooring. There’s how many
tapes in the boxes times ten, times so much for the manual, here’s
how we get to the price.
Well, this business has none of those moorings, and so you’ve got to
forget that they’re even there. It all has to do with what’s going on in
here.
When I say that in order to succeed as a consultant/coach, you have to
be one, this about the attitudes reflected in behavior. There’s a certain
behavior that succeeds and a certain behavior that doesn’t.
There’s an issue of presence. Everyone up here at the table in spite of
they would be dressed differently in most cases if they were like taking
money from people at the moment. There’s a presence to them when
they stand up and talk about what they do.
This whole thing of being the thing in order to get the money is pretty
important, so a lot of what we’re going to talk about today is about
what’s going on internally, not just externally.
Let’s talk about some attitudes that are absolutely necessary. Here’s
page three. First of all what is your role? Well, your role as a
consultant/coach is not to be of service to clients. Being of service to
clients implies you are a servant to clients. That’s not what we do. Our
role is to control clients, and to attempt to get compliance from clients.
I often tell the story of my experience as a patient with chiropractors,
and so for the very first chiropractor I went to, I was having some pretty
severe back trouble at the time. I go in, and how many of you have
been to a chiro? You know the whole drill. They bring you in. They
show you the x-rays and they do the report of findings. They tell you
you’ve got to come four times a week for the first three weeks, and
three times for the next six weeks, and etc.
I know the drill, too. I know it when I went in. I had sort of mentally
prepared. The doctor gets done with the whole presentation. That’s all
fine except that’s fine for ordinary people, but that’s not good for me
because I’ve got a bunch of stuff going on and sometimes I’ve got to
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jump on airplane at a moment’s notice. I can’t be scheduling
appointments a week ahead of time.
When we got done, we’ve arrived at an arrangement that I’ll come in
when I want to, and I’ll call him up a couple hours ahead and he’ll
squeeze me in. How long do you think I kept going? Not very damn
long.
A few months later, I now go to my second chiropractor because of
course my back problem is worse. She does pretty much the same
presentation. I do pretty much the same presentation.
She now concludes the presentation by, “Excuse me,” walking out,
coming back in with the yellow pages, opening it to chiropractors, and
had a red pen in her hand saying, “Let me mark three or four doctors
I’d be happy to refer you to who will accept you on that basis. There
are very good doctors here in the community, but you can’t be a
patient here at this practice on that basis.”
Huh? “We have a relationship. We’re in a partnership to get you well. I
can’t do my part if you won’t do your part, and I don’t want any patients
here who aren’t going to get well, so I’m not going to accept you as a
patient.” Well, wait a minute, maybe I can arrange my schedule.
When I went back for my first adjustment, all chiropractors give you
some kind of little Xeroxed piece of papers with little drawings of
exercises on it that you’re supposed to do, and they mark the number
of reps on the blank line. You’re supposed to do eight of these, four of
these, which immediately goes under the car seat.
So, I go back for my first adjustment, and the doctor says, “How are
you doing with those three exercises?” Oh, great, fabulous. Like, I’m
going to do these exercises, get out of here.
“Well, show me exercise number three. I want to make sure you’re
dong it right.” You’ve got to fess up. “I ain’t doing them. I don’t even
know what exercise three is. The sheet is under the car seat, and I
have no intention of doing them, just crack my back and my neck and
let me get out of here. I have things to do.”
“You’ve got to go home. You can’t be a patient here if you’re not going
to do your exercises. So, we’ll reschedule you for Thursday, and
coming back in and be prepared to show me all three exercises before
you get an adjustment.”
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I’m stomping. I’m pissed off, but I go do the exercises, come back, do
the exercise.
See most doctors would think that their role is to be of service to the
patient, but no, the role is to be the superior being in control in order to
get compliance from the patient. So, if you have an in-service attitude,
the relationship is ordered in the wrong direction. If you have an inservice attitude, you give up control to the client.
Second attitude, superiority, nothing is more important to the
successful consultant coach than complete disdain for everybody
you’re dealing with. That doesn’t mean you don’t like them, but you’ve
got to really have in your head how incredibly ignorant and
dysfunctional they all are.
Somebody asked me this question the other day, “How much money
do you have to take from somebody to get a smart person who can
follow instructions?” I said, “I used to think it was about that.” We’re
only taking $30,000 from them and they’re behaving like idiots. Maybe
if we took $300,000 from them, they’d take it more seriously and they’d
behave better.
No, it doesn’t matter how much money you take from them. First of all,
the entire universe continually reorders itself into 80/20 and 5/15 within
the 20. It always reorders itself to that, no matter what you do. I don’t
care what you do. It doesn’t make any difference how much money
you take from them. It doesn’t make any difference how much time you
spend with them. It doesn’t make any difference how much value you
deliver to them. It doesn’t matter how much legitimate expertise you
have.
None of that matters. Every little group reorders itself to 5/15/80, and
they keep doing it over and over again. So, you could put ten
billionaires in a coaching program, and within three months, you would
realize that you had a sharp as a whip champion who was
implementing everything, and you had really slow students, and they’d
all be billionaires. It wouldn’t make any difference.
Every time I keep thinking, “Well, maybe if we take more money from
them.” No, they can’t get out of their own way, and actually by the way,
the ones running the big companies who are making twenty million
dollars a year as CEOs, they’re like far more dysfunctional than you
and I. Believe me, it’s a good think they’ve got a limo picking them up
in the morning and taking them to work. There’s a reason those
companies pay for that. It ain’t a perk. It’s like essential. Otherwise,
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they’d be roaming around out in the street unable to find their way to
the office with their Wall Street Journal under their arm.
I’ll tell you three quick stories. One is in 1978, after a year of making
money as a speaker doing things very dumb and very primitive and
very painful, I went to my first National Speaker’s Association
workshop all excited because now I was finally going to go figure out
how to do this smart.
This is a three day workshop. By the end of the first day, I’m like totally
depressed, and spent the night in my hotel room instead of going
anywhere. It quickly became apparent to me that just about everybody
was a better speaker than I was, but nobody knew how to make any
money.
In fact, I was already make more money than most of them. I come to
find out how to make more money and make it smarter. By the end of
the day I was convinced they’re all making less money than I am, and
they’re doing even dumber shit than I’m doing. This is not good.
So, I’m like horribly depressed. By the next day, I’m excited. Now, I’m
walking around thinking, “Okay, if these clowns doing what they’re
doing are like getting booked at all,” by the third day I’ve convinced
myself I’m an expert.
I’m at the airport ready to go home, and Buster Crabbe – he was Flash
Gordon and Tarzan – had been at the meeting. He’s sitting at the
airport. We’re both flying back to Phoenix. I say, “What did you think of
the meeting?” He says, “I’m really depressed.” I said, “What are you
depressed about?” He says, “Well, I’ve been doing this thing. I’ve been
getting some bookings, and I’ve been speaking. I’ve got a little book,
but I know I’m not making what I should be making doing this. I came
to here figuring I was going to be around all the smart pencils in the
box, and it turns out I think I’m making more money than most of them,
and I don’t think they’re doing even half the things I’m doing smart.
What did you think of the meeting?”
I said, “I thought the same thing of the meeting.” He said, “Well, what’s
your background?” I said, “I’m in advertising.” He says, “Well, how
about if I hire you to redo all my stuff because you seem smarter than
everybody else I met here.”
Now, I’m on the airplane and I’ve got a client. So, I got my first speaker
as a consulting client because both of us came and decided everybody
was a moron except us. He wants to give money to somebody, and I’m
like the least moron he met. That’s pretty much the deal.
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Now, by the time I get home, I say, “Okay, well, if he feels that way,” so
now I start a newsletter. Before you know it, I’ve got 300 speakers
paying me $200 a year for a newsletter and I’m off to the races.
My disdain for the population has never changed. Again, many of them
are far better speakers than I, and many of them are far better at one
thing or another than I, but generally speaking, they don’t have any
business sense.
Those of you who do business consulting, generally speaking,
everybody in every population doesn’t have any business sense. I’m
still in the advertising business, and I go to meet on a Saturday with
the CEO of the number one ad agency in Cleveland, which admittedly I
know world’s tallest midget. It’s the number one ad agency in
Cleveland.
I get there and this guy, they own their own building, and this guy is out
sleeves rolled up. It’s a Saturday, but he’s cutting the grass in front of
the building.
Now, first of all, the guy is cutting his own grass, so unless this is your
hobby, which for some people it is – but then you ought to do it out
sight of anybody if you’re the CEO the largest ad agency. He’s out
cutting his own grass.
As I get there and start talking to him, the wheel goes bad on the
lawnmower. He picks the lawnmower up. He drags it from the front of
the office building with me tailing along talking to him, all the way to the
back of the office building where there’s a wrench that he can tighten
the wheel on the lawnmower, and then drag it all the way back to the
front of the building to cut the grass.
Now, this guy is the CEO of the largest ad agency in Cleveland, and he
ain’t got enough sense to go get the wrench. I am immediately feeling
smarter and more powerful in this conversation because I’m thinking,
“This guy’s an idiot.”
Weight Watchers, I get hired to work for Weight Watchers. The
president of Weight Watchers at the time, very nice fellow, and I’m
sure he was very good at something. I have no idea what, but he was
very good at something.
We’re all at a meeting where their ad agency, Benton, Barton, Durston
& Stupid, who’s taken a lot of money from them has come to show
them their new TV commercials.
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They show these TV commercials. These TV commercials are stick
figure drawings of women talking to each other on a beach, stick
figures. You can draw it with a crayon, talking to each other on a beach
and their logo.
The lights come up, and everybody sits there waiting to see how he’s
going to react. He says, “Fabulous.” Everybody says, “Fabulous,” and
everybody goes on their own. I said, “That’s the dumbest thing I’d ever
seen.” He said, “It is? It can’t be. It came from Benton, Barton, Durston
and Stupid.”
There’s a very powerful lesson there. He don’t know good advertising
from bad advertising. He doesn’t have a clue, but since they did it, and
he gave them a lot of money to do it, and they have a reputation in the
advertising community, it must be good.
This is like taking somebody to a really fancy restaurant. The food is
horrible, but they think it’s good because it has to be because they just
paid eighty bucks for it, and they’re in a fancy place with six forks. No,
bad food is bad food no matter who it came from, but he don’t know.
I’m sitting there thinking, “This guy is running this whole company, and
he’s an idiot.” What did you pay for these things? “Production budget
was a half a million dollars.” You need a kid and a crayon. You
could’ve done this on an Etcha Sketch. You could produce this thing
for ten grand and have money left over. Are you nuts? “Huh? That’s
what Benton, Barton, Durston and Stupid told me it cost.”
Real lessons there, you’ve got to realize that while you’re clients might
be good at something, and usually it’s there technical competence at
whatever it is that they do, that in the common sense department
which is mostly what coaching and consulting is all about, you are far
superior to all of them.
You are the superior being walking the planet as dysfunctional as you
may be. By comparison, trust me, you beat them all. I’m looking at the
current crop of presidential candidates. Is there any of them that you
would hire and put in charge of anything? No, not a one of them. One
of them is going to wind up running the country. What’s the number of
qualification in order to run a country? The arrogance to think you
should be running a country. That’s it.
You’ve got one guy who was a mayor, who did a pretty good job as a
Nothing Is
mayor although he alienated every constituency he worked with, and
More Important
his personal life is a god awful mess. He’s got all kinds of business and
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financial problems, and pretty much what everybody is impressed
about is they’ve got a mental picture of him in their head with a hardhat
on after 9/11, and we’re going to make him the leader of the free world.
The other guy’s been in the Illinois State legislature for four years or
some ridiculous thing. Hillary married well, on and on. I wouldn’t put
them in charge of three Dairy Queens in Indiana. There they are, and
everybody’s acting like they know something.
Believe me, their consultants are taking money from them by the
bucket loads. So, you need a sense of superiority, and you need to
work on developing it. The best way to develop superiority is to
recognize and acknowledge the idiocy, ignorance and inferiority of
everybody else around you.
It’s nice to be walking around thinking, “Gees, I can’t believe these
people.” First of all, they’re doing well in spite of themselves, and it’s a
miracle they get to work in the morning.
Confidence, Donny Deutsch’s book, and Donny by the way sold an ad
agency for $300 mill, which is a really good trick. It begs studying
Donny Deutsch because you are selling nothing. It’s nothing. The ad
agency business is nothing.
It’s clients, but they can leave, and it’s employees, but they can leave.
It’s nothing for $300 million. The title of his book, it’s one of those
books you don’t need read. Books you should just prop up somewhere
so you can see the covers. The title of his book is “Often Wrong, Never
in Doubt.” That’s the kind of confidence because what people really
want to buy from us is certainty. They do not want to buy maybes.
They want to buy certainty.
They’re happy to buy it if we’re wrong the majority of the time, as long
as the times we’re right the economic payoff is okay. What they don’t
want to buy is maybes.
Money, attitudes about money, well, we’ll talk more about that tonight,
but the biggest attitude about money you need to have is Stuart
Wilde’s line, “When they show up, bill them.”
Nothing for free, nothing, there’s nothing more futile in life then
dispensing free advice unless you insist on dispensing free advice to a
family member.
If they don’t give you money for everything, for every step of the way,
you will lose control of them. You will not get compliance, and you will
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lose their respect. Their respect for you is in direct correlation to the
fact that they must give you money for everything.
Don’t make the mistake of, “Oh man, the guy’s giving me a million
dollars a year, so I’ll comp him to this.” Big mistake. Don’t comp them.
You might give him a break, but don’t comp him.
Value, real important to understand that in these businesses we are
dealing with the client’s value, not our beliefs about value. It’s not
about what we would buy. It’s not about what we would pay. It’s not
about how we make decisions.
I was with a client the other day who publishes a newsletter. The
newsletter, for what it is in terms of content for someone who would
use it in its industry, is probably the best newsletter, the most useful
newsletter, the most underpriced newsletter, and the most valuable
newsletter I have ever seen.
He as an enormous problem keeping subscribers because he’s built
the whole thing for people who actually use it, of which in a niche of
30,000 there might be three.
I like it because I’m happy to zip through in it a hurry. There’s no fluff.
There’s no entertainment value. There’s no personality. There’s no
nothing. There’s just information, things to do, great, I’m thrilled. Give
me that thing. Give me five minutes, a highlighter, let me find
something to have go fax or have somebody go do, and I’m on to the
next thing.
There’s him, me and another three or four people. So, you’ve got to
sell the newsletter for like $100,000 a year. For most people, that’s not
their value system.
Now, they may enunciate it, but it’s not. This business is about not the
core value of the service. That has to be good. They have to get
results from whatever you give them, but that’s not what will keep
them. That’s not what will make you money.
The value is about the results to the client, the client’s perception of the
results, the relationship with the client. We’re going to talk a lot about
how you create value, but the most important thing to know about
value is it’s all up to them. It’s not up to you.
Your attitudes about value have to switch to making them happy, and
having them want to continue in a relationship with you, not about the
core value.
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Ron said a nifty thing. He goes from $1,100 to $30,000, I put the stuff
in a better looking notebook. Well, that didn’t help the value at all. You
could deliver it in a paper sack. It wouldn’t make any difference.
To the client, in part because they actually can’t judge the value of the
stuff that’s in the notebook, so they don’t have a basis for that. The
notebook is pretty important. They guy gives you $30,000, he expects
a good looking notebook. It doesn’t have a damn thing to do with the
value, but he expects a good looking notebook. You’ve got to give him
a good looking notebook.
Last attitude has to do with the willingness to exercise power and
control over people and being comfortable with doing so. This is all
about controlling them. So, the big speaker mistake in life is the
attitude of, “I’m going to do such a seminar, and I’m going to give them
so much information, and I’m going to teach them so much stuff, that I
don’t have to have a hard sell presentation at the front of the room, and
do a value build and do a takeaway and control that whole sales
process to drive them to the back of the room. They’ll recognize value.
They’ll just go back and buy.”
There’s like two speakers I’ve met in thirty years who get away with
that. It doesn’t work. Logically, it should, but it doesn’t work. The same
thing in this business, “Well, if I put on a great meeting, and I deliver
great content, and I’m a great coach, and I really help them, and their
business improves and their income improves, and their lifestyle
improves, and their health improves, I shouldn’t have to do all this
manipulative stuff in order to keep control of them and keep them
giving me money. They’ll recognize the value, and it will take care of
itself.”
No, it won’t. They will leave you in spite of the core value that you
deliver for all sorts of other reasons. You’ve got to get comfortable with
very deliberately and strategically exercising a lot of control over other
people. That’s a very important thing.
There’s an article, I’m not going to take time with it now, but there’s a
really good article I stuck in for you on some of the pages about super
powers, but let’s move past that and let’s go to page five.
Of the big things that we’re going to talk about today, here’s the big
thing number one. What you will be paid for ain’t what you think you’re
getting paid for. It certainly is not what your clients actually think they’re
paying for, and it certainly is not what peers in the industry would think
they’re paying for.
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Know What You
Are REALLY
Being Paid For
What you’re really getting paid for is your reputation, far more so than
your results, the output, the quality of your service. The Weight
Watchers story is such a good example because this million dollar a
year CEO who is running a multi-million dollar company owned by an
even bigger conglomerate is making is entire decision on whether or
not to run this ad campaign and spend another million dollars running it
based on the reputation on Benton, Barton, Durston, and Stupid.
He’s not making it based on any objective standards. He’s not making
it based on any discernment of his own. He has none. He has no ability
to tell whether it’s good advertising or bad advertising. He’s not making
it based on anything except Benton, Barton, Durston and Stupid made
it.
What did they really get paid for? Did they get paid for the advertising?
No, they got paid for their reputation. That’s what they get paid for.
What is reputation? It’s what they believe they know about you. It’s
very significant that is not necessarily what you know about you, and it
is good or bad. It is not necessarily the truth, good or bad.
You could be the best financial planner on the planet, but if the clients
and prospective clients don’t know that about you, it is zero advantage.
You could be the worst financial planner on the planet, but if they
believe you are the best, it’s an enormous marketing advantage.
Over the years, working with chiropractors, I’ve probably gotten
adjustments from 300 of them. The ten best adjustments I ever got
from the guys I believe are the ten best chiropractors out of all of them
are the poorest.
The best chiropractors don’t have the best incomes. Why? They think
their income has to do with being the best chiropractor. No, it has
everything to do with being known for being the best chiropractor. It’s
about what do they believe about you.
Where does that come from? Well, what do they surmise or assume
about you? Why in all the years have I never been challenged about
educational qualifications? For the most part, the assumption is made.
You couldn’t be doing what you’re doing without having them, so why
ask about them?
Vocabulary, the language, the way you carry yourself, so part of what
they believe they know about you is purely based on their assumptions
that they make about you.
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Everybody who has a published book immediately gets assumptive
credit for being smart and being an expert on the subject. I know lots of
authors including myself, and neither of those things is necessarily
true.
Just because they got a book published with their name on it which
they may or may not have written certainly doesn’t guarantee any
superior level of intelligence, or any level of expertise on the topic. It
actually requires, for about $15,000 you can get a really good midrange ghostwriter who in about two weeks can put together a perfectly
respectable book on just about any topic that can be researched on
which you can slap your name. All it really means is you were able to
write a $15,000 check. That’s what it really means, and it could mean
nothing more than that.
Years ago, our friends at NSA, they don’t do it anymore. They used to
have an annual brochure contest. The stupidity of this to me was
obvious and immediate. That would be relevant if it was the National
Graphic Artists Association maybe or the National Brochure Makers
Association, but the National Speakers Association is having a best
brochure contest.
We took great trouble one year to make sure that Lee won. Were you
first or second or third? She got best brochure, and she had the good
sense and the lack of discretion to make the very comical statement
that all it really proves is I give good brochure. That’s all it really
proves.
There’s an assumption made, Ringer story and Winning Through
Intimidation is a useful story about that. What else builds your
reputation? What they are told about you by others. So, if you can
engineer stories being told about you from person to person to person
to person, that creates reputation. In fact, it says you have to attempt
to govern the stories that are told about you from person to person to
person to person. Those stories will control your reputation. Nobody
will question the stories. Nobody will go investigate the stories. You
never need to worry about that.
The corollary is in hiring. Obviously, one of the first things you should
do when you hire anybody is check references. Everybody gets
references. Do you know what the national statistic is how many
people hiring people ever check a reference? Four percent, 96% never
make a call. They assume, well, if they listed them on the application
as references, they’re only going to say good things about them. So,
why bother calling them? Terrible assumption. I’ve called and had
them say all sorts of bad things about the person.
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What they read or hear about you, real important, so if you can get an
article written about you. When Tom Peters wrote the book, In Search
of Excellence, he profiled some thirty companies in search of
excellence.
What’s the biggest commonality about the excellent companies that
were profiled? Bankrupt, they’re all broke. They all went broke. They
may have been excellent for a while, but then they were gone.
Arguably, they might have been putting too much emphasis on one
thing, excellence, but I’m deadly serious, by the way. Well, think about
it. There’s something wrong there.
There’s another commonality there to be found in those companies
that led to them all going broke that would be equally useful to know, if
not more useful to know than the commonality that they were all briefly
excellent.
My point is getting your company written about in that book for a period
of time, it drove your stock price up. It caused people to want and
come do business with you, do joint ventures with you, buy you, merge
with you, acquire with you, be acquired by you, etc, because they read
about you in In Search of Excellence. The book said you were an
excellent company, so you must be an excellent company because
that’s what I read about you.
Well, first of all, a third of the companies were of course clients of the
consulting company that Peter’s worked for, so there’s sort of a mixed
agenda of deciding that they’re the most excellent.
They read it, it must be true. So, what they read about you controls
reputation. Here’s what’s really useful to know about that. There’s not a
great deal of distinction between what they read about you in real
media, and what they read about you in false media.
Most don’t make the distinction. There was a thing on 20/20 last night,
the pharmaceutical companies, it’s actually kind of comical, the
pharmaceutical companies are literally stealing all of the strategies and
ideas that we’ve used in the illegitimate alternative health business for
years that we go to jail for.
The FTC doesn’t bother them so they’re pharmaceutical companies, so
they’re stealing everything we always did and are doing it. They
showed last night, it was really pretty funny. Whatever pharmaceutical
company it is, they got a new prescription drug to keep you awake
because people are falling asleep.
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So, they got this pill. By the way, all the research on it actually shows
that it in shift workers versus the placebo, it kept them awake 1.74
minutes longer. A cup of coffee bought 3.6 minutes.
We’re going to put everybody on the drug, right, God bless that
industry. Here’s the promotion piece that they’ve got for the drug.
They’ve got a fake American Medical Association Journal of Clinical
Psychiatry, and it looks just like the real thing, full of articles written by
doctors that look just like real peer reviewed articles, but of course, all
the doctors are on the payroll one way or another of the
pharmaceutical company.
There is no peer review, so the articles are really written by copywriters
like me, and the whole thing is being sent out to the doctors. They can’t
tell it apart from their regular Journal of Clinical something or other. We
do this, by the way, we all go to jail in the alternative health business,
but in the real health business apparently now it’s okay. It worked like
gangbusters, so all sorts of people – it’s intent was to get them to
prescribe the drug for off label purposes. It’s supposed to be being
prescribed to airline pilots and truck drivers and people who need to
stay awake. Now, it’s being prescribed as an anti-depressant because
this fake journal that went out to all these doctors has told them what
they’re not allowed to tell them on the label, and the fake media is
every bit as good as the good media.
Very important for you to get it, what they read about you is extremely
powerful, but what they read about you in the Wall Street Journal is
only a little bit more powerful than what they read about you in the
Excellence Street Journal that looks like the Wall Street Journal, but
exists only because we made it up.
What legends they hear repeated about you, it’s really important to
create, tell and retell and tell a lot, a handful of defining stories about
yourself that are likely to be retold. When they are retold and retold and
retold, they take root. Better that they are true, by the way, or
embellished from a place of truth, but as a practical matter, it wouldn’t
matter.
Fifth, who you are associated with and who they associate you with in
their minds, now that’s really important especially for someone who
does not yet have a reputation in the market in which they are pursuing
and wishes to create it.
An aura borrowed is nearly as good as an aura owned. K-Fed is
actually able to earn money, a remarkable tribute to one thing and one
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thing only, being seen with and briefly married to Britney Spears. He is
actually able to make money with no talent, no ability, no brains. It’s
remarkable, isn’t it?
There’s a comedian. His first name is Tom. I forget his last name, up in
years. He made a very good living for many, many years, and stored
his money, so he’s very wealthy. Some of you would know him, Tom
Dressen, and no disrespect, but his a journeyman comedian.
As stand-up comedians go, if we had a scale of one to ten, we’d
probably make him a five. Dressen’s career was totally based on the
fact that Frank Sinatra let him open for him.
Steve and Edie Gourme, their career was built on Frank Sinatra. I’m
not sure they could’ve built a career just on Steve and Edie Gourme,
but by borrowing an aura, they were able to build a very sustainable
career.
Who you are seen with, who you are associated, who you co-author
with, who you interview for an article, who you interview on a tape, who
you hang out, who you reference in your language and in your stories,
who you tell stories about as if you knew them – all of that adds to your
reputation.
A long time client of mine owns a business talk radio station, actually
owns two of them now, and he has a show of his own which is really
designed to promote his investment management firm.
One of the things that he was very good at from the beginning when all
he had was a tiny little show on in San Antonio, and he only had a few
million dollars under management, and he now has hundreds of
millions of dollars under management, is he was very good at conning
people like Henry Kissinger and Alan Greenspan and John Travolta
and the list is long, to be interviewed on his radio show which was a
bought and paid for fake radio show on a dinkass station in San
Antonio.
Purely because they never ask, and he had the cajones to chase them,
he got Alan Greenspan, for example, who almost never gives
interviews to anybody, to be interviewed on his show eight, ten, twelve
times, and Henry Kissinger to be interviewed on the show, and on and
on.
He intelligently mixed financial people of stature and credibility with
celebrities of no stature or credibility other than they are a celebrity.
So, he surrounded himself and associated himself with these people.
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I’m always amused and I have some clients that I’ve gotten his show.
I’m always amused when people then go on the show, and now they
like list it in their promotion material that they were on so-and-so’s
show on such-and-such station, which means nothing to anybody.
Even though it’s now a bigger show and it’s a real show, and it’s in
Houston, unless you’re in Houston, nobody knows who the hell he is. It
doesn’t make any difference.
You could say appeared on the Daniel Frishberg show with such
people as Alan Greenspan, Henry Kissinger. The implication is you’re
all on the show at the same time together, but what people want to
draw from that is up to them.
It’s just like in the speaking business. We use the language “shared the
platform with,” and then this long list of people. Well, that like implies
we were all out there on the platform together. No, it might have been
three days apart, but they were on the same platform I was. We were
at the same event. We don’t know each other. We didn’t talk to each
other. We weren’t in the same room at the same time, but you get to
use their names, and you get to associate yourself with them. This
business is about creating a reputation that you become known for.
First thing to do is decide what it’s going to be. All about decision, who
do you want to be? Do you want to be the wise old grizzled veteran of
your industry? Do you want to be the arrogant young punk that annoys
everybody? Do you want to be obnoxious? Do you want to be warm
and fuzzy? What do you want to be?
You get to decide because you’re making it up from scratch, and of
course you ought to pick based on what’s going to be effective for you.
Now, you can’t totally be something you aren’t, so you’ve got to pick
characteristics that you can work with.
Effectiveness is what it’s all about, so there are decisions to be made
about what you are going to set out to make yourself known as, and
known for. You’re known for competencies. You’re known as a type of
person.
You may be known as somebody who is very difficult to work with, and
you’re known for your ability to take dental practices and magically ten
times them in size overnight.
You may be known as an enormously compassionate, empathetic
father figure. You would be known for some competency. You have to
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pick what those things are, and build your short list, and then make
sure that you do everything strategically to reinforce the short list that
you decided on.
For a number of years, I did work for a guy by the name of – he doesn’t
do much anymore – his name is Dick Sutphen, and Dick’s worth
studying for a variety of reasons. One is he was a metaphysical
community start for a number of years, and a past lives person, big
seminar once a year in Sedona where 500 people come and they all
lay on the floor and roll around and flop and vomit and stuff and have
simultaneous past lives experiences, and return to Atlantis or they
were all Napoleon.
Nobody, by the way, in their past life was ever like a beggar. They
were all emperors and empresses and knights of the round table and
queen of Atlantis.
Anyway, Dick had a best selling book by the way on the New York
Time’s list for a number of years called, Past Lives, Future Loves, all
about past life stuff, which our joke was the title should’ve been, “Past
Lives, Future Alimony,” based upon the number of times that Dick was
married.
So, this is Dick’s positioning. Dick, for example, had to have long hair.
Anything else would’ve been unacceptable for who he was, and he
couldn’t come in the room in a three piece pinstriped suit and a tie.
That would not be acceptable for who he was.
Now, who Dick actually was an advertising copywriter and executive
from New York and had three piece pinstriped suits and ties, and that’s
pretty much all he ever wore while he was in New York and short hair,
but he got tired of being an advertising copywriter, and went in search
of a niche in a market, and so forth, and he transformed himself into
this larger than life character.
He had to make sure that everything was congruent with the short list
of things that he decided that he was going to be known as and known
for.
Hence, the future alimony problem because they kept marrying him
thinking they were getting that thing they saw up onstage, and who sat
up on the roof in the rain and wrote poetry. Then, after about three
months of discovering that he was us, enormous disillusionment set in,
and off we go to divorce court.
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You choose this thing, and then you build it. Now, if you don’t
consciously choose, and you don’t consciously and strategically build
it, by the way, you wind up with a reputation anyway. It’s just that it
gets written for you by others.
Choose And
Cultivate
Your
Reputation
Once it gets in place with a constituency, with a market by the way, it’s
very hard to change. So, you really want to give a lot of thought to what
your short list ought to be. If we were taking the time to do workshop
stuff today, I would put you all around tables and for the next fifteen
minutes, we’d sit there and write our short list. Then, we’d all compare
our short lists and stuff. For the sake of time, I’ve chosen not to do that,
but you ought to go home and do it. You ought to get somebody to
help you help each other to do it. You ought to give some very serious
thought to it.
Then, what you will find is there are ways that you get to strategically
use the reputation you’ve designed. By the way, part of designing it is
deciding how you’re going to strategically use it.
I’ll give you a couple of examples which are on your next page. I have
very carefully cultivated a reputation of not being a warm and fuzzy
fellow. It is very deliberate on my part. That doesn’t mean I’m hiding a
warm and fuzzy fellow deep inside. That’s not at all what I am telling
you.
I have very carefully cultivated the reputation of not being this. There’s
a number of reasons for it. One, there are certain kinds of things that
people are prone not to discuss with me, not to tell me because of that
reputation. It’s things I don’t particularly like talking about or dealing
with, but without that reputation, they would be telling me about them.
The evidence is when Carla and I were divorced, shortly after the
divorce, people started to talk to me about things they never talked to
me about before. That changed the reputation and gave them
permission to now talk to me about their marital problems. Well, I don’t
want to talk about their marital problems. I claim zero expertise in this
category. It’s actually a mean to have the conversation. I am not the
person to go get this advice from. I don’t know who that person is, but
I’m not it.
But, it sparked an enormous amount of these conversations that have
never happened before. It’s gradually all stopped, and it doesn’t
happen now.
Well, I did that on purpose. I didn’t want to have those kind of
conversations. By not having the warm and fuzzy reputation, I get
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currency out of rather ordinary and mundane acts that otherwise you
wouldn’t.
Understand very quickly, I’m not suggesting that you go out of here
and adopt my short list. I am suggesting you’ve got to decide on a
short list for yourself, but I’m using some of my choices and decisions
as an example.
There has to be content match, too. It would be harder to take this
position if I was doing a lot of personal growth stuff rather than what I
do for a living.
For example, because I’m not a warm and fuzzy person, and have a
reputation of not being a warm and fuzzy person and being all
business and all bottom line, and all hard nosed and all tough and all
that, a simple handwritten note from me acknowledging that their kid
got accepted from college or their dog passed away or whatever has
far more impact than the same note from someone with a reputation or
being a warm, fuzzy, involved in personal lives person.
So, the strategic use of my reputation lets me take ordinary and
mundane acts and give them enormous significance in the relationship
between me and my client.
I have a client for example, it’s a client on and off over the years who at
times has given me a great deal of money, and then periods of time
have gone by where they have given me no money.
This client was diagnosed last year with throat cancer, some kind of
throat cancer. Our relationship is not frequent enough that I even
knew. So, I heard several months after the fact through a third party.
At Christmas, we send Christmas cards out. I jotted a handwritten
note, and took the time to write a couple of paragraphs and sent id to
him. I didn’t do it to be manipulative or strategic. At this particular point
in time, as I say, I don’t need to do that anymore actually, and I don’t
want anymore business from him. That was the furthest thing from my
mind.
However, because it is so out of character with my reputation and with
that relationship, I got the long winded five page emotional letter back.
Then, like two weeks later, their company is calling and suddenly trying
to give me large sums of money to come and do things which hasn’t
happened in almost three years.
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Now, any number of people they deal with who have a different
reputation could send him exactly the same note, and it not have the
same significance and not have the same result.
There are strategic uses for the things that you have in your reputation
because I very carefully limit endorsements, and I’m kind of stingy with
them and kind of picky about what I endorse.
I get a lot of currency, for example, out of agreeing to write a blurb for
somebody’s book. Somebody who gives out blurbs for book covers like
giving out M&Ms on Halloween, who shall not be mentioned in this
room, but there are famous people who have a blurb on every book
that was published last year. The book could be pure crap, and they’ve
written a blurb for it. Not only don’t they understand, they’re getting
some free promotion yes, but they’re actually damaging their
reputation with the general public, but beyond that, they have no power
now out of giving the blurb to certain people. Everybody knows they
give blurbs to everybody, so getting one from them is no big thing. I
don’t feel any sense of obligation when I get a blurb from that guy. I
don’t feel any need to be reciprocal when I get a blurb from that guy.
It’s like so what? There are certain people you get a blurb from them,
you feel like, “Oh, man I really owe that guy. What can I do for you?”
So, your reputation as you build it and reinforce it gives you currency,
gives you the ability to have impact or not have impact with certain
things that you do.
Bill is much more generous than I about this. For many years, you old
timers will know at my events there weren’t very many amenities. I
wasn’t big on feeding people.
Bill is much more generous about this, but those of you who put on
meetings know hotel contracts have changed over the years, so it’s
relatively hard to get meeting space without committing to a certain
amount of food service. He’s more generous than I, but some of that
generosity is forcibly imposed.
I didn’t have to, but because I never did, every so often, I would for
example spring the, “Okay, I’ve decided to buy lunch for everybody
today, and we’re all going to stay in the room, and I’m going to do an
extra Q&A session on everybody.” I typically would do that immediately
before a session where I or somebody else was going to ask
everybody for money.
Buying lunch for them if you always buy lunch for them, and you’re
expected to buy lunch for them, that doesn’t get you anything. Buying
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lunch for them when you never buy lunch for them, that gets you a lot.
It’s the same lunch. The only difference is the reputation of the person
buying the lunch. That’s the only difference.
There’s strategic uses for everything you put into your reputation.
There’s also the issue of forgiveness or condemnation, so just as the
same act for two different people can have two profoundly different
kinds of significance depending on their reputations, the same act by
two different people can be easily forgiven or jumped upon and turned
into a big evil thing totally depending on the reputation of the person.
The personal growth and religious leaders share the worse position in
this in terms of bad behavior in general because they lecture to
everybody about good behavior all the time. Then, when they engage
in bad behavior, they’re like burned at the stake for it.
If you don’t lecture about good behavior to people, and in fact kind of
have a reputation for some bad behavior, then the exact same act of
bad behavior is water off of duck’s back. Your constituency pretty
much ignores it.
So, depending upon your reputation, certain acts of behavior will have
one kind of impact or another kind of impact. It’s real important not to
commit yourself to a reputation that is so in conflict with behavior of
yours that is likely to be observed, seen, known about or become
public that you are going to be severely condemned for it.
A little checklist for you on the next page. Take care to build one of
these things that number one, you can live with and live in for a
distance.
Simple example, bad idea to have done this thing, if I wasn’t planning
on keeping it because I can’t make it go away now until I quit. Too
many photographs, too many videos, too many promotional pieces, too
many bobble heads, it literally is part of the reputation. I’m known for it.
If I didn’t really like it, growing the thing wasn’t such a smart idea, same
thing with bigger issues. You’ve got to build one that you can live with
for a long period of time, and that gives you a little big of wiggle room,
and does not set impossible standards that you can’t stick to.
So, for example, if you have a reputation for, “He’s the guy who calls
everybody back within thirty minutes.” Well, that might serve you well
early. Can you sustain it over a period of time? Not if you’re successful,
because eventually there’s more people calling you than you can call
back. Now what happens? Now everybody’s pissed off and
aggravated.
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So, you’ve got to be able to live with it and it can’t set up impossible
standards. You should develop one that facilities influence power and
control.
So, for example, a reputation of somebody who is very relaxed, casual,
tolerant, whatever happens is not particularly useful in running
coaching groups because you will eventually have trouble keeping the
children from hitting each other with the blocks.
A reputation of someone who can occasionally fly off the handle and
visibly be seen doing it, that’s actually a little more useful because now
there’s a little bit of, “We really don’t want to set him off,” going on.
That will be magnetic to your constituency of choose.
Gene Simmons has a reputation. George Will has a reputation. Neither
would be particularly magnetic to the other’s constituency.
You have to think about who is your market? What kind of person do
they admire, do they envy, do they want to be around, do they wish
they were? Preferably, something that has evergreen appeal, not
something that’s going to be here today, gone tomorrow, that’s really
trendy, that’s really short term. This is pretty important. Something that
at it’s sum total is easy for people to grasp and remember. They need
to be able to give an elevator speech for you. They need to be able to
explain who you are and what you are to themselves and to others, like
short, not long, and that is difficult to undermine or attack.
Ralph Nader has a reputation as a populist pretty consistent. He’s kept
it consistent over the years. It’s difficult to undermine and attack. When
he campaigns, he still stays in people’s houses instead of hotel to save
money.
John Edwards has decided to run as a populist, lots of luck. He just
built a 22,000 square foot house and clear cut the entire property in
order to do it. It’s going to be very hard for John Edwards to be the
champion of the little minimum wage worker guy. That’s not going to
be easy to sustain, and it’s going to be very easy to go at. All you’ve
got to do is show the pictures of the 22,000 square foot house.
You’ve got to take care about this. You’ve got to give a lot of conscious
thought to it. You’ve got to think it through. You’ve got to arrive at
decisions about what it’s going to be and how you’re going to use it,
and then you’ve got to strive for constant congruency in a lot of
different categories.
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This is a real important piece of your puzzle, and it shouldn’t be
accident. It shouldn’t be happenstance. It shouldn’t be random. It
should be very carefully thought through, purposeful, strategic. You
need the short list as a reference point to make all of your other
decisions – what am I going to say? Who am I going to write? Who am
I going to hang out with? Where am I going to go? What am I going to
wear? What charity am I going to support? On and on and on.
When people ask you what books you’re reading, your answer needs
to be congruent with your reputation. It doesn’t matter what you’re
reading, by the way, but the answer has to be congruent with the
reputation. If you rattle off a bunch of books that are completely
incongruent with the reputation that you’re trying to sustain, you mess
people up, and you undermine what it is that you’re trying to do. So,
this picture that you build over here, this short list you build over here,
has to be a constantly used reference tool to govern every other
decision you make about your business.
Begin by being known for something. You want to settle on one great
competency, one great characteristic, one great story, one great thing
about you that you are going to leverage everything else off of.
In your case, it was make a whole lot more money in the mortgage
business, work less, deal with a certain type of customer, and then you
start to fuzzy it, you start to fuzzy it, but you need to pick something.
What Will You Be Known For?
Almost everybody goes broad to narrow, narrow to broad, broad to
narrow, it may be easier to look at this in your notebook than to look up
at the screen. My old joke, it’s self explanatory, so we’ll just move on.
A lot of people will go broad to narrow, back out to broad. They start
narrow. They go narrow to broad. Actually during the length of your
career, you’ll be moving from one to the other and back again and in
and out. This is just sort of a quick little chart of me and so at the very
beginning, very broad.
I started back with, “Here’s direct marketing for any business and any
sales guy. It doesn’t matter what you do. It doesn’t matter what
business you’re in. It doesn’t matter what the size is. I’m going to give
you better marketing.”
Then, it got a little narrower to magnetic marketing, but mostly what I
was known for, for almost a decade, if you quizzed people about it, it
would be the three step mail campaign. Then, it would be long copy.
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Those are both things pretty narrow, and then get broad again and get
even broader, fuzzy the edges, start to be talking about entrepreneurial
strategy, success strategies and so forth.
Now, from there, back narrow again starting to develop the marketing
to the affluent category, which is at least as narrow as magnetic
marketing was. I’ve been market niched. I’ve been non-market niched.
Going from narrow to broad, to broad to narrow. You will do the same
thing.
Everybody’s known for one thing, and then they fuzzy the edges. If you
look at our friend Trump for example, he actually started pretty much
being viewed as a negotiation guy under real estate. Now, he’s fuzzied
the edges to wealth success strategies in general. Now, he’s fuzzied
the edges to lifestyle issues in general.
Dale Carnegie began purely about how to stand up and give a speech
without throwing up. That was Dale Carnegie’s position in the market
place. So, all their corporate clients, as soon as somebody got to the
place in their corporate career where they had to be able to do a group
presentation, they sent them to Dale Carnegie.
Then Dale Carnegie leveraged it, got fuzzier and broader, got into
sales, got into leadership. Dr. Phil is kind of funny I think actually, but I
still find him doing weight loss amusing.
A quick example of can anybody do it, I just pulled this out of DM
News. Here’s a guy that is an executive recruiter in the direct
marketing industry, so meaning companies hire him to go find me a VP
of this or so. Now, he’s started a new coaching business for direct
marketers seeking a job. He’s going to take money from the other side.
Of course, he doesn’t know any better, so let’s see here. They spent
hours taking an individual through a proven multi-step process.
I’m getting $175 an hour, so ain’t that terrific. By the way, he told me
again, who is it? I assume is like some kind of NSA for coaches. Is that
fair? They just hired Price Waterhouse to do a big income survey,
average annual income of everybody in their federation is $50,000.
They sent it out. Remember, NSA did the same thing several years
ago. They sent out like they’re bragging about this. Two of your clients
exceeded their average.
Let’s jump to – this is pretty important, so I can’t skip it – to page 13.
The keywords are at the bottom. A lot of your work is done for you
before you arrive on a scene or utter a single word because your
reputation precedes you.
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This is really important. One way or another, the heavy lifting should be
done before you “arrive on a scene.” Before they come to you, before
you get to them, somehow the heavy lifting ought to be done.
The worse thing – I’ve done it three times in my entire life, twice early
and once later, but under duress and I was an idiot to do it – is going
into a meeting of a bunch of people from a company who don’t know
you from Adam. You are now there to pitch. It’s not a place you want to
be.
One way or another, you’ve got to have your reputation precede you.
That may be the big box of stuff they have to read and listen to, the big
thing they’ve got to fill out. It may be the seminar they have to sit
through before they’re allowed to buy coaching, the CDs they have to
listen to before they can have a conversation with you, the word of
mouth what other people have said about you, the champion in the
company, your book, but you’ve got to construct a process that has
your reputation precede you so all the heavy lifting is done by the time
you show up.
Well talk about more detail, but it’s important to at least get it
conceptually. Let me just jump to sixteen because I’ll give you an
example of now a specific strategy.
This latest consulting gig which Bill and I are doing jointly, it’s source
was a person of influence in the company so there’s a Kennedy fan
who begins the process of trying to convince his company that they
should come to us.
Then, he gets another guy, and they get another guy and they go up
the chain. Eventually at some point, somebody from the company
contacts my office.
Here’s where are we going to have the reputation precede or are we
going to do the heavy lifting. Let’s take Dan Cricks. Last night at the
IBA meeting, because he’s starting to be known, he now has
somebody calling him who wants him to privately coach them. She’s a
fairly apparently successful and substantial coach in her field.
Now, the very worst thing in the world he can do is talk to her. That’s
premature because it gives no opportunity for the heavy lifting to be
done before he talks to her. The very best thing is he needs some
intake procedure with some steps in it, so by the time they do talk to
you, that’s like an accomplishment.
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The very process has set up greater emotional commitment, greater
desire to get you now that it’s been so hard to get you. We, for years,
have had this sort of intake procedure at my office where they are told,
“Go prepare no less than one page, no more than two pages,
explaining why it is you want to talk to him, and what it is you need,
and what it is you want to do, and fax it in. Then, I’ll forward it to him,
and then, he’ll decide whether or not he’s going to talk to you. If he is
going to talk to you, we’ll be back to you and set up a phone
appointment.”
Well, now some people will fear the person they’re going to lose
because they won’t go through those steps, but you’re better off
moving to the next person if in fact you have enough deal flow, then
you are trying to do the heavy lifting yourself.
Now, what happens, first of all, is the very fact that they go back and
they go through those steps which are weird to them. From the very
beginning, I’m changing the way they normally behave and the way
they normally get things done.
Normally, if they’re thinking about buying something from somebody,
that person jumps on them and tries to sell it to them. I don’t want to do
that. I want to essentially do the opposite.
Have A
PROCESS
That Does
Your Selling
For You
They’ve expressed an interest in buying something from me, now I
want to not want to sell it to them. I want them to have to fight every
step of the way to get the opportunity to be able to buy it. I want to put
stuff in their hands so now okay, we do go back to them and they do
get a phone appointment.
Prior to the phone appointment now, the big box of stuff gets FedExed
to them with books and CDs and newsletter and relevant testimonial
letters, and when we go through sample documents, I’m going to show
you some of the correspondence from this particular situation so you
get even a better feel for it.
A relevant package of stuff, some of the same you would send to
everybody, some of it not the same you would send everybody, arrives
into their hands with instructions about what to pay attention to first,
what to pay attention second, what to look at before we get on the
phone.
I have put my reputation in a box, and I have put it in their hands to do
as much of the work as possible before I have the phone call. I don’t
on the phone call have to have the conversation of tell us the twelve
reasons why we should hire you. Convince us to hire you.
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I don’t want to have that phone conversation. The only phone
conversation I want to have is them convincing me I should let them, or
just the detail conversation of when, where and how much. Those are
the only two conversations I want to have.
They get stuff. Then, in this case, we made them double opt-in, so
they’ve got to come back and request the phone appointment the
second time, and then finally they get the phone appointment.
By the time they’re at the phone appointment, they are now a little
frustrated. They’re a little antsy and anxious, and they are pretty much
determined they are going to get this guy if it’s at all possible to get
them. They’re already deeply emotionally committed to doing so.
As opposed to me making it easy for them, and then having to sell
them hard. In this particular case, they then needed buy-in from a
whole group of people because this is a corporate client. We had to go
through this whole set of steps again.
Now, they’re going to put me in front of a group of people in their
company who have to buy-in to this project. I don’t just go from talking
to them to stand up in front of the group and pitch. I don’t want to do
that.
I go from phone interview to full day with them, to planning the day with
the group even writing in the CEOs voice, the letter that is being sent
out to everybody in the group who is coming to the meeting preframing them for why they are at the meeting and what’s going to
happen and who Kennedy is. I get a book in all their hands with
instructions that they should read it before the meeting. Some will.
Some won’t, but better some than none.
We get them on a list and fax them some information before the
meeting. I exercise a lot of control over what happens. I just don’t walk
in, show up and do a pitch meeting. I don’t want it to be that. I want the
meeting to be framed as an explanation and question and answer
session to determine whether or not it’s appropriate for me to accept
this project from them and work with them as a group.
I don’t want it framed about them deciding whether or not it’s
appropriate. It’s about me deciding whether it’s appropriate. Are you
coming for the candy or coming to talk? Okay, just a second.
So, you want the work done if you turn to fourteen, what’s most
important here, is you want the work done to the greatest degree
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possible before you arrive, so that they are, if you view them on a
continuum of one to ten this way, and one is don’t know guy from
Adam think he may have answer to problem, might want to use him, to
ten, absolutely determined to get him if it is at all possible to get him,
we desperately need him and only need him. You damn sure want to
pass the five.
By the way, it’s not just about getting the sale. It’s about everything
that’s going to happen after the sale. If you got the sale by selling,
keeping control of them after the sale is going to be very difficult.
If you got the sale by them selling you, then keeping control of them
after the fact is going to be a lot easier. This is not just about getting
somebody into a coaching program. This is not just about getting
somebody into a consulting contract. This is about what will color the
relationship forever. How it starts has a lot to do with how it’s going to
go and how it’s going to end. The worst thing you can do is being an
impatient, instinctive salesperson, which we all are, and want to jump
on it too quick, and sell it too hard, especially if you’re good at it.
I can get a check out of a rock in a pay toilet. So, my instinctive
reaction is as soon as somebody who might have a check in their
pocket rears their head, I know how to knock them down and get the
check in five minutes. That doesn’t mean the relationship’s going to be
good after I get it.
I have to restrain my impulses, and implement a process that gives me
control over the client not just the check from the client. Too many
people care just about making the sale, not about what’s going to
happen after the sale.
You can sell them by brute force. You can put them in coaching by
brute force. You can get a consulting client by brute force. You can’t
keep them around for ten years if you got them by brute force. That’s
what’s important to know. Yes?
Question: I’m wondering what you did in the meeting with the CEO that
convinced him that you needed to write a letter in his voice and do
this whole process to bring it back for a paid meeting with the group.
Dan:
The short answer is, I told him. Let me embellish the short answer first,
and then I’ll give you a blow by blow long answer. The short answer is
important because my positioning from word go is they’re there to be
told what to do, and I tell them what to do and they do it.
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It’s not like, “Gee, here’s something that would be good to do. Will you
do it?” It’s, “Here’s what we’re going to do. It would be better if I wrote it
than you write it because I’m better at that than you are, so I’ll write it.
If there’s something in it that you don’t like, we can talk about it.”
All of it is about I’m going to tell you what to do, and the real important
thing to keep in mind about all that is for the most part, that’s really
what everybody wants. They want certainty. They want somebody to
tell them what to do.
It doesn’t much matter if they’re making ten million dollars a year or ten
cents a year. It doesn’t much make any difference. They’re looking for
somebody to tell them what to do.
The longer answer to your question is they’re the ones who needed the
group meeting. So, we had a full day. My normal procedure is the
intake procedure I talked about. Ultimately every new relationship
begins with a paid day of consulting. Then, at the end of the day
maybe something happens, maybe it doesn’t. They pay for the day of
consulting, and in this case, they paid a premium because they wanted
to be wedged in at a time I didn’t want to wedge them in. I forced them
to come to where I was going to be on vacation anyway. I
inconvenienced them and all of that. I did it A-because that’s all I had,
and B-because inconveniencing them is a good thing to do. The worst
thing to do is go to their office. That’s like the worst thing to do.
Now, we have the day. My normal reaction now at the end of the day
is, “Okay, we get it. Will you do this for us, and how much does it cost
for you to do this?”
I get that, but then I get revealed to me that really even though I’m in
the room with the president, he doesn’t have the authority to actually
do anything without buy-in from this group of franchise owners. Well,
quite frankly, I’m immediately pissed off because I didn’t know that.
That was like a new piece of information. I was like planning on a
contract. I’m now like hot because I wedged them in, I spent a day with
them, and actually this guy can’t give money. I do my best work when
I’m hot. I’m serious. My sales from the front of the room were always
best when somebody really pisses me off right before I go do it.
I’m like aggravated, and I let it be known that I’m aggravated. I ask
whether or not he and his two cohorts that are with came with their
private parts or without their private parts. I ask it in a not as nice way
as I just said it.
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They explained it’s really not about it. It’s corporate structure, and if we
don’t get these guys to buy in, there’s no point and etc. So, I say,
“Okay, so what has to happen?” “Well, we’ve got to put them all in a
room, and you got to tell them what you just told us.”
I say, “I ain’t happy about it, and I’ll think about it.” Now, they leave,
and now they start bugging us to do this. Then, I agree to do it for
another fee. You’ve got to pay the day fee. I’m not going to come do a
pitch meeting for free. “Here’s what has to happen before we do the
pitch meeting. You’re going to do this. You’re going to do this, and
you’re going to do this.”
They do this, and they do this, and they do this. Now, by the way, they
ain’t capable of doing much, so the other reason specifically to write
the letter for him is because he’s not capable of writing the letter that’s
going to have the effect that I want it to have, and by the time I explain
what I wanted him to do, we’d all be old and grey.
He doesn’t even realize what it was. He just sent it. It is really about
just telling them what to do.
What They Do Not Buy/What We Sell
Dan:
Section two, you are now on page seventeen, what we sell. What we
don’t sell that everybody thinks we sell is the top list. We don’t actually
sell credentials because make no mistake, they don’t care about
credentials. They don’t even know what credentials mean. Half of this
alphabet soup stuff people put after their name, nobody even knows
what the devil it means except the people who are issuing the alphabet
soup and the peers who are concerned about the alphabet soup.
Nobody checks credentials. Nobody makes any decisions based on
credentials. So, Charlie’s average case size at his dental practice is
like $40,000. A lot of cases are seventy, eighty, ninety thousand
dollars. How many patients do you know of in the past three years
who’ve actually gone and called the American Dental Academy, or
somehow checked out your credentials to do what it is that you do?
Anybody verbalize it to you? Okay, so that’s the big deal. They check
them out on the internet. How do you check them out on the internet?
Do you know what most people do? They go look at your own website.
That’s how they check you out on the internet.
Nobody checks, so how important is that to them? It’s not. They’re
making that decision totally based on other criteria.
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Now, the sane thing to do, of course, if you’re about to spend $80,000
on dentistry would be to meticulously go get a second opinion, and a
third opinion, try and find who is the best dentist in the country at this,
call five references, call the academy. That would be the sane thing to
do.
If you think anybody’s doing it, you’re in dream land. They’re not
buying expertise. They can’t figure that out either ahead of time.
There’s no way to judge it.
They’re not actually buying services, nor do you want to sell services,
and they’re not buying even results. That’s not what they’re paying for
because for the most part in advance, they can’t predict them. They
don’t believe what you’re promising them. At best, they’re hoping.
In many cases, keeping them won’t have much to do with results
either. What they are really buying is driving the decision to get into
this relationship with you is your confidence, your certainty, and the
control you exercise over them from the beginning.
When you finally prescribe, here’s what you should have, and here’s
the fee for it, there are no questions. That’s really what should happen.
What should not happen, well, can I take this out and this out, and then
how much would it be? That shouldn’t happen.
It should be, you prescribed it. Here’s the fee, and they say yes. That’s
what should happen, and that has everything to do with confidence,
certainty and control, and it has almost nothing to do with everything
else.
Buyers Are
Liars. They
Say They
Want
“Truth.”
They lie.
They Want
“Certainty.”
Which brain surgeon do you want? The guy who says to you, “Well,
chances of success here very hard to predict. I don’t claim to be the
best brain surgeon in the country. I work real hard at it. I study real
hard. I kind of like the look of your x-rays, and I’ll get you the best
outcome I can.”
Do you want the guy who says, “You came to the right place. You
could’ve gone to 500 hospitals. You’re in the best hands possible.
Relax. We’re going to drill your head open and have you as good as
new by nine o’clock tomorrow morning. You’ll play the piano again.”
“But, I never played the piano.” “You’ll play the piano.”
Which brain surgeon do you want? Now, logically, here’s what most
people will tell you, “Well, I want the guy who will tell me the truth.”
That ain’t who they buy from. They want the guy who is certain.
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There’s an entire industry in this country that sells sports picks, so you
pay money and they tell you who to bet on. They can’t get you on the
phone and analyze the upcoming game. “Well, this could happen. That
could happen. If it snows, that gives a four point advantage to these
guys, and when it’s all said and done, who’s going to win the game? I
don’t know.”
They’ve got to say, ”Virginia Tech is going to win the game, and they’re
going to win by four and a half points, include a field goal in the last
two minutes. Give me $5,000.”
By the way, the good news is the retention of that client has very little
to do with whether Virginia Tech wins the game by four and a half
points or wins it with a field goal in the last quarter or first quarter. It
has very little to do with that.
You would think it has a lot to do with that, but it doesn’t have much to
do with that. It starts with they want certainty. Here’s how coaches and
consultants then create self-sabotage.
Number one, excessive concern or actually any concern over your
credentials or your educational background, so there’s a whole bunch
of people in our field all hung up because they don’t have an MBA or
they didn’t go to college, or they didn’t go to high school, or they barely
got out of high school, or it took them four times to pass their GED, or
whatever.
Nobody cares except you, and nobody is going to ask you. As long as
you look like you got out, and you act like you got out, and you talk like
you got out, nobody cares.
There’s a lot of people all concerned about it over your experience or
lack thereof because coaching and consulting is more about asking
questions and giving answers, and it is far more about common sense
than it is about anything else. You got all the experience you need
because you have common sense.
Because all businesses are the same, by the way, and they are not
different, you don’t have to know squat about the particular business
that you are helping in order to be of enormous help. Most of the help
you will be will by asking questions, not by giving answers, and by
dispensing common sense. It’s a very simple observation.
I don’t know what happened, and it’s not even relevant what
happened. Through a series of events, really before we’re ready,
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Sydney Biddle Barrows started developing a new consulting and
coaching business with us. Sydney raise your hand so everybody
knows where you are.
The guy in New York that owns more restaurants in New York than
anybody else really, really successful restaurateur has a property, a
big them restaurant that he’s put a lot of money in and it’s got
problems.
So, possible Sydney is going to consult with him to fix these problems.
To the best of my knowledge, Sydney has never run a restaurant.
She’s never owned a restaurant, and probably what she knows
specifically about restaurants is how to order wine.
She goes and looks, and I’m listening on the phone as she’s telling me
what she seen. It’s a long list of things that common sense tells you
are wrong, are incongruent with the objectives that he stated for this
restaurant.
It’s a perfectly good list of things that need to be changed. It didn’t
require owning a restaurant. It didn’t require going to the restaurant
management institute. It didn’t require any of that. It just requires
walking in with an open mind and objective attitude about the place,
some common sense, watching people and how they’re reacting and
saying, “Why in the hell would they be doing that?”
It doesn’t require much more than that. Then, it will require a bunch of
questions so that the guy kind of feels like he’s figuring it out for
himself, and then everybody’s going to be happy.
It’s not about lack of experience. You should worry if you have no
common sense. That would be a legitimate problem, but lack of
experience, no.
In a ninety day period, I became the most in demand consultant in the
television infomercial industry. I never produced an infomercial,
misspelled infomercial, couldn’t actually do anything physical like run a
camera or anything. If I touch it, it breaks, no previous TV experience,
no previous movie industry experience.
It’s not about that. It’s about common sense. Well, let’s see, if there’s
no offer that’s probably not good because people are not going to run
to their phones. It’s common sense, but people put TV shows together
all the time with no offer.
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Concerns over your financial status versus the clients, we’re going to
talk about that quite a bit. My clients make more money than I do, how
dare I tell them? We’re going to talk about that in a second. Personal
hang ups about money, we’re going to talk about that in visible display.
Let’s jump to twenty, experience not required, this is from one of the
books you should ready if you haven’t. It’s called Selling Invisible. It’s a
good book about selling intangibles.
Here’s a big point, in most professional services, you are really not
selling expertise because your expertise is assumed, and because
your prospect can’t evaluate your expertise anyway. So, it’s assumed if
you make it assumed, and he has no way to evaluate your expertise
anyway until you actually deliver.
Because most of the delivery does not revolve around expertise, it
revolves around asking questions and common sense, he’ll be fine
with the amount of expertise that you have.
Here’s my platinum list. Rory Fatt, largest coaching business in the
restaurant industry, largest information marketing business in the
restaurant industry. He has exactly the same qualifications Sydney
does.
He never owned a restaurant, never ran a restaurant, never managed
a restaurant, never built a successful restaurant. I don’t think he ever
worked in a restaurant, and I don’t think he knows how to order the
right wine. Actually, she’s got a leg up.
His actual career experience prior to starting Restaurant Marketing
Systems was working as a salesman for food service broker calling on
restaurants, and starting a business that delivered precooked meals,
frozen dinners to homes.
Bill and Steve Harrison, publicity experts, this year a million dollars in
coaching people about how to make themselves famous. Nobody ever
asks, “How could you haven’t made yourself famous?” They have zero
demonstrated expertise in making themselves famous, none.
People get in their coaching groups because they want to get on
Oprah. They’ve never been on Oprah. People get in their coaching
groups because they want to get articles written about them in the Wall
Street Journal. I don’t think they’ve ever been written about in the Wall
Street Journal. Not only doesn’t it matter, nobody asks.
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Ron Ipach, auto repair industry, he’s like Rory to the best of my
knowledge. Ron has never owned an auto repair shop, never managed
an auto repair shop, never run an auto repair shop. I don’t know if he
can repair a car or not, but that’s kind of irrelevant.
I believe when he started, he was in the windshield repair business.
He’s the number one guru to the auto repair industry.
Ed O’Keefe, coaching program in dentistry, a whole bunch of levels
pay him at different levels, $10,000 a year, $30,000 a year, $50,000 a
year. Ed ain’t a dentist. He never owned a practice, never ran a
practice, never marketed a practice, never drilled a tooth. Presumably,
the only expertise he has in dentistry is getting a tooth drilled by a
dentist. It’s like me with chiropractic and dentistry. I can’t do either.
So, there’s abundant evidence that it ain’t the expertise.
How dare you consult and coach people who are more successful than
you are? Well, there’s a whole bunch of reasons why. The value that
you deliver has no relationship to and is not governed by the ratio of
financial success between you and the client.
For example, the thing most people think about is the one all the way
at the bottom, specialized knowledge, and it is legit. I make a lot more
money than my doctor. I make a lot more money than my CPA. I make
a lot more money than the guy who is able to fix everything in my
house. That does not mean I am not delighted to give him everything
he asks for, and little does he know, considerably more because he
can fix the washing machine. I don’t know how to fix the washing
machine. He will run over and light the pilot light when the wind blows it
out. I don’t know how to light the pilot light. I don’t want to know how to
light the pilot light. I have no passing interest in know how to light the
pilot light, as long as he will run over and light the pilot light.
He has a piece of knowledge I do not have that makes him enormously
valuable to me even though he probably makes about $30,000 a year.
It doesn’t matter. That’s not what it’s about.
All these other values have nothing to do with how much you make
versus how much they make. Here are all the valuables. One, fresh
eyes, just because you walk in and see it for the first time, and by that,
I don’t mean necessarily physically walk in. That is part of it. Sydney
goes to restaurant. She sees it for the first time. She’s got fresh eyes.
He’s in it all the time. He’s not seeing all sorts of things he should be
seeing – bad things, good things, he don’t see them. Anyone of us can
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walk in and see them, but it doesn’t have to be a physical place. It
could be their ad. It could be their brochure. It could be their financial
statement. It could be their management policies. Whatever area in
which you work, you have fresh eyes. They don’t.
“…blind
though
they can
see”
No matter how smart they are, no matter how successful they are, they
become blind even though they can see. We can walk in and we can
see. Why on earth are you doing it this way? Why wouldn’t you do it
this way? Dumb questions, there’s enormous value in asking stupid
questions. Just dumb simple questions to force them to think about
what they are doing.
I like to have coaching groups, I like to have one dumb one in each
group. I like to have one that’s like behind everybody else. He’ll ask
questions everybody else forgot, and it forces everybody to think about
the basics again.
Forced thought, just slowing them down long enough to get them to
think. That’s a value we provide.
Consulting day, a lot of the value clients get out of a consulting day
with me is their preparation. The smart ones, some of them say, “I
could’ve not come. Being forced to do all this preparation was enough.
I already got 26 things I found I need to do. I don’t need 26 more from
you. Can we just go to lunch?”
Forced thought, one of the things about coaching is just forcing them to
get out of their business for four hours or eight hours or two days, turn
off the telephone, not be interrupted and bothered all the time, and just
think. They won’t do it on their own.
You can teach them to do that, but they won’t do it because you and I
won’t do it. We all know we should take four hours. Earl Nightingale’s
old deal, “Lock yourself in a room for an hour every morning with no
resources, no nothing, and just think about how you could be of greater
value in service and interest to your customers.”
It’s a great idea. How many people are going to do it? Nobody.
Somebody has to go lock them in the room, hand them a pad and a
pen, and tell them, “You can’t come out until you’ve written ten ideas
about how to be of great value and service and interest to your
customers. If I open the door in a hour, and you don’t have ten ideas
on the pad, I’m slamming the door and locking it for another hour, and
eventually, you’re going to get hungry.”
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That’s a coaching value that requires no expertise. It requires a pad, a
pen, and a key. That’s all it requires, but it’s of enormous value.
Make them defend their ideas. The more successful people are, the
less people challenge them. Pretty soon, inevitably they have a whole
bunch of people sitting around who agree with everything they think of,
no matter how dumb or useless or idiotic it may be. Just making them
defend their ideas because when everybody around you reinforces
your own premises and ideas, that’s like how you wind up in Iraq with
no plan on what to do with it after you got it. You sat in a room with a
whole bunch of people who reinforced your original premise, and didn’t
force you to defend it. That’s how you wind up there.
So, just forcing them, it’s okay if they defend it and they’re right or they
win the argument, or they refuse, but at least you made them think
about it and argue it with somebody.
Unearthed, ignored opportunities, that’s sort of like fresh eyes. Very
often, you are going to be talking to somebody, and they’re going to tell
you about the thing that’s really good, that like leaps out at you.
Again, it doesn’t require enormous expertise because they’ll tell it to
you, but they’re ignoring it for one reason or another. They either don’t
like it, or they think it’s common place and routine, or whatever. They’ll
tell it to you. You’ll say, “Wait a minute. Tell me more about that thing.”
I did it with Paul Searby. I didn’t know we were going to find it, but it
changed his whole business because he was talking about his dental
practice, and he’s got this, to him, crummy little thing he does on the
side.
My question is, “Tell me all the ways you get money. Where does the
money come from?” “This much from root canals, and this much from
this, and oh yeah, I got this extra $140,000 from this thing.” “What’s
that thing?” “It’s this dental assistants school I’ve got, and the staff runs
it on Saturdays and I don’t go in. All I do is run these little classified ads
in the newspaper, and I don’t do anything with it.”
It’s $140,000 now. The whole practice is making about $150,000 with
all them other things. I’m going, “Let’s talk even a little more about this.
Tell me like more about this, like if you paid any attention to it, could it
be like $280,000, and do other dentists know about this, and it
happens over and over again.”
People have something in their business they’re not paying any
attention to that’s actually where all the money is. Then, you spot it.
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To influence the clients and employees, speakers get that a lot by the
way, but coaches and consultants can, too, where essentially, you’re
getting paid to say the same thing that the client would say to them, but
they’ll pay attention to you. They won’t pay attention to the client.
It’s just like if you babysit somebody’s kids you’ve got no problems with
just a little bit of authority getting the kid to eat vegetables. Then the
parents are amazed because the kid hasn’t eaten vegetables in a year.
Why? You’re not the parent, that’s why.
A lot of times, your value here is in the influence you have on their
people, not necessarily on them. Sometimes, you’re getting paid to be
used. There’s value in you being used for political cover.
There’s a lot of clients getting things done in their business because
this is what Dan said to do that they would not get done if they couldn’t
say, “This is what Dan said to do.”
My value to them is then being able to say, “This is what Dan said to
do.” My attorney’s value to me is being able to put at the bottom of
letters I send out, “Carbon copy, attorney name, law firm.” I never send
them the carbon copies. I don’t want them to do anything, I just want to
be able to put, “Carbon copy, a big law firm,” at the bottom of the letter.
That’s value to me. I’m happy to give them a retainer for it, and then
get them to stay out of my way.
For a lot of people, value is being able to say, “Well, that’s what Dan
said to do.” “All right, we’ll do it.” If it was his idea, it’d never happen.
That’s value. It doesn’t require to validate their own ideas and
premises as being right.
That’s a great value you can deliver. If they happen to be right, then
encourage them to go forward. Sometimes all they need is a little
encouragement.
Motivation, accountability, we talked about. Recognition, this is a big
value that we provide. It’s easy for you to provide. Everybody, the more
successful they are, the more likely it is that they are giving themselves
their own gold stars and nobody else s giving them gold stars.
The real estate agent in Tupelo who manages to stand up and give a
speech, everyone tells him how fabulous he was. Trump goes and
gives a speech, nobody says anything to him afterwards because he’s
supposed to be fabulous, but he desperately wants somebody to tell
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him he was fabulous. At some point in time, he probably paid some
speech coach $50,000 to watch him and tell him he was fabulous.
Tyson, one of the reasons he has no money is he used to have four full
time people who walked around and their job was to say, “You’re the
man, Mike.” That’s sort of an extreme version of this, but there’s a lot
of people looking for somebody to say, “You’re the man, Mike.”
We provide them an environment where they get recognition. If it’s in a
coaching environment, the group gives them recognition. If it’s a
consulting environment, they get recognition.
My one on one calls, so part of my platinum program, I’ve got 34
people. They all get twenty minutes on the phone with me privately,
eight times during the year. By the way, I do them all in one day, and
the last few people better be good.
I’d say 25% of those calls are recognition calls, meaning they’re doing
well, so they’re calling to tell me how well they’re doing and what smart
thing they did, and what success they just had because who else are
they going to tell. They don’t have anybody else to tell, so they tell me.
Now, I say, “Terrific. Genius. Brilliant.” It’s like a beer commercial with
the two little talking guys and the one says, “We’re going to put them in
a case.” The guy says, “Brilliant!” That’s what I’m doing. I’m sitting
there saying, “Brilliant! Send me a copy of that. I’ve got to see it.” The
guy gets off the phone, feels great.
Who else was here to do that for him? Nobody. He wasn’t going to get
it at home, wasn’t going to get it at the office, wasn’t going to get it
anywhere.
Then, some of them are accountability calls. They want somebody to
ask them, “Did you do the thing you said you were going to do last
month?” “No.” “Why didn’t you do it?” Yell at them a little. Some of
them are accountability calls.
Hardly any of them are heavy lifting calls. “Oh, I have this terrible
problem. What are the 400 ways I should fix it?” I don’t have those
calls. A lot of it is this, connections, putting people together. We’re
going to talk about that a little bit later.
So, what’s important about this list is this is all value. There’s only one
thing on the whole list that is actually related to expertise, experience,
specialized knowledge, knowing how to do one thing well that they
don’t know how to do. You only need one thing, by the way.
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That’s all you need, and everybody in here knows how to do something
pretty well. The rest of the values have nothing to do with that, and
these are the values that will keep people.
They may buy because of the last one and a perception of it, but these
are what will keep them in the game. Yes?
Question: You talked about how unnecessary it is really to have credentials.
However, when you do have the credentials, when do you actually
include them, or would you really be sabotaging you by putting your
stuff out there?
Dan:
First of al, you misquote me. It’s an important distinction. I have not
once today, and probably never, but certainly not today said it is
important to have credentials. I have actually said quite the opposite.
It can be useful to have them, but I never said it was important to have
them. I said what is important to have is a carefully constructed
reputation. There is a world of difference between the two. We’re not
just playing semantics.
It’s really important not to be in that trap of credentials, but it is
important to construct a reputation. Then, all the evidence you have
that supports the reputation, put it out there. You can’t over do it.
So, if you’ve got 420 articles that have been published somewhere,
send 420 articles, but don’t send 42. If you’ve got 500 testimonials,
send all 500 of them, don’t send 50. You might want to highlight 50, so
you put it all out there.
It is more about your constructed reputation than it is, did you go to
Harvard, not go to Harvard? Did you get an MBA, not get an MBA? Are
you a member of this that or the other thing, or not a member of this,
that or the other thing? Those are credentials.
Question: So, if you have those though, by coincidence, do you include them?
Dan:
Sure, yeah, they’re no harm, no foul at worst, and at best, they may be
reassuring to somebody.
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Question: I noticed that there’s chiropractors for example who are coaches,
who will put Dr. So-and-so on there which has nothing to do with
business, but they’re a doctor chiropractor.
Dan:
Whatever You
Are, You Can
Sell.
Well, if they’re coaching other chiropractors, then it’s not essential, but
it’s helpful because they’re a clannish group. What that panders to is,
my business is different, so you can’t understand my business unless
you’re one of me. Charlie panders to it.
This lead to another conversation of use whatever you’ve got. Yeah, so
he happens to be a successful dentist. If we’re pitching him to other
dentists, we’re saying, “Who do you want as a coach, some marketing
guy who has never drilled a tooth, or a highly successful dentist who
knows your experience?”
If I’m pitching Ed O’Keefe, I’m going, “Who do you want as a coach,
some dentist just like you who is as stupid as you are, who’s been in
the same incestuous environment you’ve been all your life, or you want
somebody with broad based marketing knowledge who has made
people money?” So, you use what you’ve got.
I was just going to show you just a couple of, these are interesting
examples of what people will pay for. I’ve lost her first name. Her last
name is Shaheen. She’s president of a company. Her clients are CEOs
who sneak her in so testimonials are probably a problem to teach them
how to use their laptops.
They don’t want to admit to anybody around them that they don’t know
how to turn the damn thing on, but they finally reached a point where
they need to be able to use it. All her business is word of mouth just
from one to the other, and she is a tech therapist who helps frightened
and dysfunctional CEOs establish a positive relationship with their
laptops.
Now, unfortunately, she’s billing herself out at $300 and thinking that
she’s doing something. Little does she know what we know that she
could be just as easily be collecting a $30,000 check for a program of
tech therapy.
What’s useful and important about it all, here it is, her name is Jennifer
Shaheen, eBusiness Creations. Her main business was normal tech
training firm, and then she got into this thing on the side, and now it’s
the bigger business.
They bring her in to get them comfortable with their cell phones and
their laptops. They don’t like them, and they can’t use them, and they
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hate them, and they can’t go ask anybody because they can’t admit
they don’t know how to use them.
The point is there’s somebody to buy everything. So, it could be
comfort with a laptop. It could be comfort with a microwave. It could be
comfort with being bald, and you could have a coaching program.
Somewhere, there’s a bunch of people who will pay a lot of money for
that, and again her language is important. It’s not so much just about
teaching them how to use it, but making them feel good about it. She’s
selling more than technical competence.
Let’s jump over to page 25. Third big thing of the day is success in the
field requires a willingness to play the game, meaning if you are
absolutely determined to let people make buying and retention
decisions on their own through logic based on the core values you
deliver. You are not going to make a lot of money. You’re going to
have a lot of trouble keeping clients, and you’re probably not going to
have as much as fun as you could have otherwise.
If you view it as a game you are willing to play, and you view it all as a
performance, first of all you think of that way, you’ll think about it better.
Then, here’s the criteria for success.
One if the performance has to delight the audience. Again, that’s all
about their values, not yours. So, let us taking coaching. If we put ten
billionaires in the group, you’re going to have slow students, and you’re
going to have champions. So, no matter what you do, billionaires or
non-billionaires, you’re going to have slow students, and you’re going
to have champions. You are going to have somebody in coaching, a
coaching group or even in a consulting relationship who it seems to
you isn’t going anywhere.
At the end of the year, they’re in the same place they were before, but
that’s your value trying to be imposed on them that they should’ve
gotten somewhere. That’s not up to you. It isn’t up to you define it. It
isn’t up to you to impose it. It isn’t up to you to judge them by it. It’s
only important that they are delighted. That’s all that is important, so
whatever values they’ve got, if they’re happy, that’s all that is
important.
Different people are delighted by different things. I had somebody in
coaching group for three years, the only reason this person was there
was to show off. That’s it. Three years, never asked a question. He
was brilliant, what an expert. Saves time for somebody else.
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I get to work less. I don’t have to think as hard. He’s delighted. Fine,
that’s what it’s about. I wouldn’t be delighted. It’s just like I said on the
break.
If I pay $10,000 to be in a seminar, I’d be running back from the
bathroom, tapping my watch. Hey, Kennedy, let’s go. Let’s rock and
roll here, but if you guys want to stroll back. Who am I to impose my
value system on you?
I could skip some pages. It doesn’t matter to me. It’s okay by me. It’s
not up to me to determine what’s going to delight you, other than to
make sure I try and delight everybody.
If you view it as performance, than its obligation is to delight the
audience and enrich you. That’s its two obligations. Everything else is
gravy.
People are going to get what they’re going to get. Are you willing to
play the game? Are you willing to manipulate people? Are you willing
to take control of people? Are you willing to only entertain those who
wish to be entertained?
In other words, are you willing to crawl inside there and find out what it
is that really is going to make him delighted and figure out a way to
give it to him, and do I tin a way that extracts the most amount of
money from him. It doesn’t do him any harm, and hopefully does him
good. That’s a big asset.
This is pulled from a book called Thick Face, Black Heart, which if you
haven’t read it, you should. It is written by an Asian female consultant,
and this is a very good thing she identified. It is that in our culture, the
idea of deception is viewed very differently than in other cultures. In
other cultures, it’s a given that deception is a normal and routine and
ordinary and expected and necessary part of any game. Here we view
it in a spiritual, emotional context that deception is evil, so we are
unwilling to admit that we are engaged in it, therefore we’re
handicapped in doing it really well.
So, most people will immediately protest that they do not decide
people, “I don’t engage in deception.” The last female to tell me that
about business had implants and was wearing a push-up bra to show
them off. Is that deception, or is that not deception?
I’ve always said conversation with Lee years ago, she was telling me
about the guy she was dating and what she was going through. I said,
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“You better stop that because eventually he’s going to find out who you
really are.” That’s going to be a problem.
I’m going to cook for him. You’re going to do what? What? What have
you cooked three times in the last decade? We all do it, don’t we? We
all put ourselves on our best behavior at certain times, but our best
behavior is not our normal and continuous and constant behavior. Isn’t
that deception?
The answer to the question, does this make me look fat? Who in here
wishes to give a completely truthful, frank and unvarnished answer?
It’s not a question of do we engage in it? It’s really a question of
degrees and competency at it.
In a sense, all advertising, all sales, all marketing, all promotion has
some degree of some element of deception in it. So, deception,
manipulation, psychological control of people, it’s what we do. Now, it’s
just a question of are you going to do it really, really well or not.
Early on, this is from a novel, it was sort of life shaping stuff because it
was very early. There’s a fictional character badly portrayed in a TV
series. It wasn’t awful, but it wasn’t good, on A&E, called Nero Wolfe.
Nero Wolfe is a detective who is very fat, and therefore doesn’t leave
his house, if he can help it. So, he solves mysteries without going
anywhere, and he makes everybody come to him. So, every novel, and
there’s eighty of them since he died, and they’ve written some since,
which is deception in and of itself by the way.
A massive amount of fiction now is turned out by dead guys. The
estate hires journeyman writers, puts them in a room, and they publish
the stuff under the name of the dead guy. Robert Ludlum is three
books out, and he’s been dead for six years. There’s Nero Wolfe
novels out. Rex Stout’s been dead for 25 years. In fine print
somewhere, it’s disclosed, but if you’re not really careful you think
you’re buying a book by Rex Stout, and you’re buying the next
installment of the Nero Wolfe series, which you are, but Rex has been
dead for a long time.
Anyway, so Nero Wolfe is this rather fat detective who likes gourmet
food, so he has a cook. He won’t leave the house, and so everybody
has to come to him. He putts around every morning with his orchids on
his roof and his greenhouse, so he absolutely won’t see anybody
before eleven o’clock. The place could be on fire, and he won’t come
down in his elevator until precisely eleven o’clock. The world could be
sitting there waiting for him, and he ain’t coming down until eleven
o’clock.
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He doesn’t like to work, so he only works when people force him to
work. They like have to throw money at him and cajole him and beg
him and push him and prod him and nudge him in order to get him to
work.
On one of your pages, page 27, there’s a block out of a Nero Wolfe
book. I read this stuff in my teens, and I’m thinking, “This guy has it
right. This is exactly the way it ought to be.” Totally contrary to my
experience at the time, but I’m thinking, “This is what you should get
to.”
It’s amusing to me that the president of the United States treks over to
Bosnia and wherever he goes. I never have understood it, ever. I’m
president of the United States. You’re king of whatever or President of
some puissant country, and you want to talk to me, you’re coming to
the White House. I’m not leaving.
I’m getting in there. Four years from now, you can pry me out. In
between, I ain’t going anywhere. I’m certainly not flying into some
dangerous place where people want to shoot me, protest. Why should
I do that? I’m President of the United States, and we’re giving money
to everybody. The only reason you’re coming to see me is you want
money. Why should I come to see you? I never have understood it. I
wouldn’t leave for anything. Go over to Congress to give a speech.
Screw that. Let them all come over here and stand on the lawn. I’ll give
a speech. I ain’t going over. I’ve never gotten that.
I read this Nero Wolfe stuff, and it’s the same book after book after
book. People are like putting $100,000 checks on the desk. By the
way, these books were written in the ‘50s. He’s got to think about it
overnight as to whether or not he’s going to take it. They’re all coming
to him.
I’m thinking, “That guy’s got it right.” So, that was implanted in the
brain. There’s a non-fiction guy, a very famous detective, there’s an
autobiography of him. It’s a great book. The guy’s name, and it’s his
real name, and it’s like Rory Fatt in the restaurant industry. Could you
be better? It would be really bad if you were President of
Nutrasystems, but as a guy in the restaurant field, Fatt is good.
This guy’s name is J.J. Armes, and what’s cool is he has no arms. He
has artificial arms with hooks, and he’s a private detective. He’s really
famous. He’s done some big cases. Marlon Brando’s kidnapping was a
case of his. His autobiography is worth reading, but the best thing
about reading it is, and I don’t know if he’s still in business because
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this was ten years ago, but if you’re going to hire him the conversation
has to start with $100,000 on the desk. If you don’t bring $100,000,
there’s no point in coming. That’s how the conversation starts.
I’m thinking, “That’s a good way for a conversation to start. That’s like
a good rule.” That’s really where all relationships begin with a pay day
of consulting came from. I didn’t start with $100,000, but that’s where I
got the concept from.
I said, “Okay, so why should there be a free lunch? Why should there
be a free meeting? Why should there be a free anything? Why doesn’t
everything start with somebody putting a check on the desk? Let’s start
there, rather than where most people start.” You’re way ahead of
where most people start if you just start there.
Let’s talk about managing expectations, next thing. Jump over to 28.
This is again Benton, Barton, Durston & Osborne did the ads, so
therefore they must be good. I’m going to show you, for those of you
who haven’t seen it, and for those of you who have seen it, it’s fun
anyway, but we’ll take time tonight to show you the episode of the
Penn & Teller bullshit show about bottled water.
It is a lesson in the power of managing expectations, and what people
then will accept as true and or acceptable to them based on
expectations.
The example I’ve always used in marketing seminars is Southwest
Airlines. Southwest Airlines, of course, delivers the least. It’s a god
awful experience from beginning to end. If you’re not there two hours
before flight time, you know you’re going to have the orange pass, and
you’re going to be in the middle seat between two fat people eating
buckets of chicken.
If you’re going to flying across country, it’s a bus. Southwest goes, “Oh,
yeah, Cleveland to Vegas by way of Memphis, St. Louis, San
Francisco and Tuscaloosa.” It’s a Greyhound bus with wings.
Pretty much half the people flying it should be on the Greyhound bus,
and would’ve been on the Greyhound bus if the Southwest ticket
wasn’t so cheap.
Now, amenities are being taken away from the big airlines, but for
years, you got not amenities. You got no nothing. You got a crappy
little seat, and the flight attendant sings. This is their deal.
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Year after year they have the highest customer satisfaction ratings,
and they deliver the least. If American Airlines treated you like
Southwest treats you, you’d be burning down the terminal. Southwest
does it, you’re happy. Why? They managed your expectation to start
with. They make no pretensions. They’re very clear about what they
are. In the early years before anybody knew what they were, and they
had to condition everybody that this was okay, that you’re going to
come. We’re not going to assign a seat. You’re going to stand in line.
We’re going to give you a plastic pass. We’re going to call you by
groups. You all stampede down the thing as a herd. Elbow each other
out of the way as best you can, get whatever seat you could fight for.
Even if you’re flying across country, you’re going to be on a plane for
seven hours. You’re getting a bag of peanuts, one Coke, that’s it.
We’re going to get you there.
When they first figured that out, this was like a new concept. So, how
did they sell it? They were very clear about what we are and what we
aren’t, but we’re going to take off on time and we’re going to get you
there on time. By god, they do keep that promise.
Eighteen people still standing up trying to put their shit away, they’re
rolling down the runway. No other airline does it. Every other airline,
farts around trying to get Martha’s stuff put away. They’re moving.
Martha’s on crutches, they don’t care. Woop, we’re going.
They’ve got a promise. They keep the promise. It’s pretty simple. They
manage expectations. So, the lesson of Southwest is people will
tolerate anything, if their expectations are properly managed about
what it is they’re going to tolerate. That’s lesson number one about
managing expectations.
Now, reputation, expectations, how it turns ordinary acts into – so,
Trump has a reputation for not wanting to shake hands. It’s very well
known. You don’t shake hands with Donald Trump. He doesn’t like to
shake hands.
We had Donald Trump speak at a Jeff Kaller event, and arranged for a
little private session with a few of the speakers and me and Jeff and
Ron LeGrand, and Trump walks in and voluntarily shake hands with
everybody. Everybody is like blown away.
They’re still talking about, two years ago, “Trump shook my hand,
incredible.” Well, kind of an ordinary act, don’t you think?” Nobody’s
mesmerized when you or I shake their hand, but because he set it up
in advance, everybody’s mesmerized.
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He’s in and out of there in ten minutes, taking pictures heading for the
bus. Illegible autographs, everybody’s happy, positive word of mouth
because he shook hands. He set up in advance that he doesn’t shake
hands. Expectations managed well to take an ordinary act into an
extraordinary act.
The importance of the introduction, any speaker will tell you that the
results from the stage have an enormous amount to do with who
introduces them and what that person says or doesn’t say.
I could tell you, for example, all the years of Peter Lowe events, here’s
an absolute known for me. If Peter emceed the event, and introduced
me versus his wife emceeing the event and introducing me, a ten
percent swing in my dollars per head in sales, no other variable. Same
thing said, made a difference who was saying it. Any speaker knows it.
Well, you have an introduction one way or another to everything you
do.
So, almost never do you start a seminar the way I started this seminar
of walking up and starting the seminar. I don’t care if they’ve been to
500 of your seminars. Somebody should introduce you.
If you’re there to get money, somebody should introduce the introducer
who introduces you. One of them should be giving testimony.
Introduction matters, and those people can manage the expectations
of what’s going to happen better than you can.
There’s a whole science to how happy people are with what they get,
how controllable they are, and what they assume about what they are
getting based on what they are told.
.
The Cowl
And Cape
Make The
Batman
Let’s talk about appearance. If you never put them in the costumes,
and you had Bruce Wayne in a sports jacket and a tie and a button
down shirt and grey slacks swinging through the skies of Gotham at
night and jumping down the front of a criminal and yelling, “Boo!,” does
the movie work? It’s pretty tough. The costume is everything. You got
to have them. If you’ve got Peter Parker climbing up and down
buildings in his regular clothes, what’s the point? It’s all about the
costume. It’s packaging. If packaging to products is so important,
surely packaging of people is equally as important.
Nido Qubein who is speaking at our Super Conference, the joke about
Neato and the National Speaker’s Association is if you don’t know who
he is, he’s easy to find. He’s the guy in the pool in the afternoon in his
three piece suit.
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You ain’t ever going to see him out of his three piece suit. Every place
he is, he’s overdressed. Is that smart or not smart? Well, I’m going to
tell you, he’s probably taking more money out of that market than
anybody else has over 25 years, with no credentials going in, not much
credentials coming out, but magnificent packaging from the beginning.
Now, today, Nido is a credentialed guy, very successful consulting
company, Great Harvest Bread company. He’s very successful. Bank
successful. University he’s the dean of is successful, but I knew him
when he wasn’t credentialed. I knew when he was starting a speaking
and consulting career with nothing but a great brochure and a
pinstriped suit, and people assumed a lot about credentials and right to
ask for money.
Costumes are pretty important. Donny Deutsch’s quote is interesting
because he changed the costume as he went along through his career.
So have I. At multi-day events often you will see me start the first day
dressed up more than I am by the third days. These are our choices.
These are thoughts.
We shot this infomercial with Robert Wagner, and if you’re really young
the guy in the Austin Power’s movie with the eye patch. If you’re a little
older, you’ll have a better frame of reference. If you’re old enough, you
think of him as the Carey Grant who wasn’t.
Wagner shows up for rehearsal casually dressed but elegant casually
dressed like country club dressed. I watch him from inside the studio
get out of the limo, get the jacket with the finger just right over the
shoulder, walk in in a certain way, a movie star walked into our
crummy little infomercial place to meet the client.
He already had the money. He’s already hired. We’re using him. He
could just have easily shown up in jeans and a t-shirt. It’s only
rehearsal. There’s no cameras rolling. There’s no other money
presumably to get. We’re all going to sit around a table and read a
script. Why this?
We talked later and he said, “That’s what I sell. I sell the fact that I’m a
movie star. People want to be with movie stars. You can’t be a movie
star and showing up like their next door neighbor. It’s a mistake.”
This sales training I just recorded with Sydney, Sydney says exactly
the same thing, “You can’t have somebody call up the most expensive
escort service in New York, and expect a call girl fantasy experience,
and have her show up looking like the girl next door. That doesn’t
work.”
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Wagner says, “This is it. This is what I sell. You paid me $100,000 to
shoot an infomercial. Somebody else pays me $100,000 to go play golf
together. Somebody else pays me $100,000 to show up at a party. It
doesn’t make any difference. My number is $100,000, but this is what I
sell. I sell the fact that I’m a movie star. Tomorrow, I’ll be wearing my
movie star uniform.” His language, not mine, blue blazer, grey slacks,
blue shirt. You guys can have your choice of ties. I’ll be wearing my
movie star uniform.
I could tell you many years ago, I had a client go to prison, and he was
in prison for five years. In the Ohio State Penal System, nobody can
visit an inmate for the first six months unless they are either family or
they’re clergy. I wasn’t family, and I wanted to visit. I got me one of
those $100 cards from the Universal Life Church and became a
minister. By the way, it’s credentials for life. So, I’m legally able to do
weddings and funerals.
I suggested to Carla that we save fifty bucks and I do ours, and I just
jump back forth in the two positions, but she wouldn’t buy it. I thought
it would’ve been funny. It turns out she has a limited sense of humor
about this whole wedding thing.
So, anyway, I get my Universal Life Church thing that I bought. Now,
remember this was a while ago. One of the things in the little manual
you get says, “Ministers routinely get upgraded to first class for free.”
Airlines upgrade ministers if they have an empty seat. How about that?
That’s an interesting piece of information.
Since I’m hauling butt back and forth from Phoenix to Ohio like every
week to go visit this guy and I’m broke, this is a real useful piece of
information if this is real. The first time I try it, I get like nowhere. Then,
I give a little thought to this. Black suit, black collar, carry Bible, boom
upgraded! Same question, same card, only difference is the costume
and the assumptions made based upon it. I flew first class for free back
and forth all year long. I think I only got turned down once. All I had to
do was wear a black suit, carry a Bible. I got it out of a drawer in a
hotel. Not a story you want to tell a lot probably.
Here’s another book you ought to read. It’s old. Michael Korda’s book,
Power, very good book. Korda points out that costumes and other
symbols vary in their significance based upon circumstance, context
and person being influenced.
In certain cases, the costumes right no matter what. Wagner’s movie
star uniform is his movie star uniform pretty much no matter what, but
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often there’s significant variance based on geography, industry, where
they grew up, hold are they, what’s their corporate culture, is there any
specific message you’re trying to communicate.
You’ve got to think about the symbols you use in the context of who
you are trying to influence, where in the country you or they are, what
their background is, what they pay attention to, what is meaningful to
them, not just like a big general statement.
Think about all of your symbols. Again, this is old, but it’s still relevant
from Korda. This goes back to when electric calculators were sort of
new, and it may be hard to find, but it’s still a book well worth reading.
His point was if you’ve got an electric calculator, and you know how to
use it, it’s a symbol you’re a low level person, not a high level person.
The highest level people don’t have computers sitting on their desks
unless they’re copywriters. They have somebody who does that for
them.
I have several clients who have fake offices and real offices. They
meet in the fake office. They work in the real office. The fake office is a
set. It’s an office built to look like the office should look for the role that
they play, and then they don’t take anybody into the real office where
they work. It’s not all that uncommon.
You want to think about the symbols you wear, use, carry, what
message that they convey. When I was young in this business, I
carried a briefcase pretty much everywhere I went. Then, I figured that
out, and stopped doing that and started showing up empty handed. It
turned out the most powerful person in the room was a person who
wasn’t carrying anything. Once I figured that out, I don’t want to be the
guy schlepping a briefcase.
I don’t buy new cars anymore very often because I don’t care, but
when it was important because everybody saw my cars, I bought new
cars all the time. I bought new cars older than me, meaning I bought
cars fifty year old people buy not cars twenty year old people buy. I
was driving Towncars when I was eighteen, nineteen and twenty, not
sports cars. I wanted to be seen in a more serious car.
You want to give thought to the symbolism that you present and how it
matches up with this reputation you are constructing.
Place, we talked about this a little bit, but place is a real issue. I figured
out that just going there put me at a disadvantage. I really figured it
out. There’s a guy in Ohio. It was the first year I had an ad agency
business. There’s a guy in Ohio whose name is Rick Case, and he’s in
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the auto business. He owns Rick Case Honda, and a bunch of other
brands, but at the time, his big thing was Rick Case Honda. I go to a
meeting to get his advertising account, and his office is on the top floor
of his dealership above his dealership. You come off of an elevator,
and you walk the length of the office to get to him which is the entire
length of the car dealership, which is like forever. You walk past a
fountain and a water fall and all kinds of crap, and stuff from Japan
because of course he was selling Japanese cars. There were swords
and samurai shit, and way over there is Rick Case, who by the way is
a little midget.
You get all the way to Rick Case, and of course, you couldn’t be more
obvious about it, but still. He’s got his desk up on a platform, and he
actually has the chairs in front of the desk with the front legs shaved a
little bit versus the back legs. You are sitting beneath him, and you are
sliding off the frigging chair, and there are not table. If you’ve come in
with a briefcase, you are either balancing it on your lap to get stuff, or
you are working off the floor.
I walked out of there and said, “This was not good.” The main reason it
wasn’t good was because I was there. That’s the main reason it wasn’t
good.
So, I pretty much quickly figured out that just being in their place is not
good. Who travels, whether it’s across town or up the street or across
the country matters a lot who goes to whom. It sort of defines from the
beginning who is important and who isn’t.
Meetings on the road come to me. I don’t go to you. By making the
prospect travel to me, preferably at inconvenience, I gain all these
benefits. So, turf, how you handle place is important.
Time is real, real important. Here’s a biggie for you. The importance of
the person is directly proportional to how hard or how easy it is to get
them on the phone.
If you want a telegraph that you are unimportant, answer the phone.
That’s all you’ve got to do. Walk around with that cell phone and
answer it every time it rings. All you’re saying to everybody you’re
dealing with is you’re the least important guy on the totem pole.
Name a really important person, and then go and try to get to them.
Try it, pick somebody. You ain’t getting the Trump. He’s not answering
the phone. You’re going to jump through some real hoops to get to
Trump.
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You’re not getting to Greg Renker at Guthrie-Renker, go ahead and try
it. I don’t care what you say. I don’t care who you are. You ain’t getting
to him, not on the first try. He’s not walking around with a cell phone
answering it. It’s not happening.
As soon as you figure this out, if for no other reason but posture, you
would say, “I got to make it hard for them to get to me.” There’s
practical reasons to do it as well. There’s real time management
issues, but there’s posturing issues.
Easy access is a statement of servitude. It comes from the in-service
role. People who believe they must be instantly, constantly or quickly
accessible view themselves as providing service. That’s not our role.
Our role is taking control and getting compliance and getting results
for. Our role is not providing service. The easy instant quick access is
service role. This is a role issue.
Last, easy and random access creates an expectation that can never
consistently be met. If you put it into a relationship, you are
guaranteeing eventually you are going to have annoyed, frustrated
people, and you’re going to lose them.
I rather have them annoyed, frustrated and pissed off at the beginning,
and deal with it then than deal with it later. It’s an expectation that can
not be met. It can if you’ve got one client. Maybe if you’ve got three,
but pretty much as soon as you get to five or ten or fifteen, what
happens if all five of them want to talk to you at the same time?
You can’t meet the expectation, so if you want to manage
expectations, don’t be creating expectations you can’t meet. That’s far
worse than convincing them to accept a situation they don’t like to start
with.
Other access, dropping by, they’re just going to drop by. I hope not,
unless you’re running a coffee shop. There you want them dropping
by. Our business is we don’t want them dropping by.
I get it. We get it from people until they’re educated, “Oh, the next time
I’m in Phoenix, I’ll drop by.” Well, go ahead, because first of all, I’m
never there, and pretty much Vicky is not there much. If you want to
drop by, drop by. You can look in the building.
Even when I was there, it was like, “You’re going to do what? No,
you’re not. I’ve got plans.” You don’t want people dropping by, and I
never received them when they did even if I wanted to. It’s a bad idea,
bad precedent.
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Again, you set up an expectation, and now you can’t consistently meet.
Remember, you create a reputation in part because of what they tell
other people. If they tell other people they can drop by and see you,
other people want to drop by and see you. Pretty soon, everybody’s
dropping by to see you. You can’t see everybody. You’ve created an
expectation you can’t meet.
I’ll just call up when I’m in town, and we’ll go to dinner. It’s okay if you
only know one person who ever comes to town. It’s no good if you
know twenty because they tell each other.
Now, your reputation is somebody who at the drop of the hat will go to
dinner. Now, when you can’t, you’ve got really unhappy people and it’s
really bad positioning. What important person do you know who you
can actually just drop by and have them drop everything they’re doing
and go to dinner? No important person functions this way. Only
unimportant people function this way.
Billionaires don’t do it to each other. Warren Buffet just doesn’t land in
Seattle on a whim and call up Gates and say, “Let’s go play Canasta.
I’ll be over in about an hour.” That’s not what they do to each other
because probably Gates is doing something already. He’s like busy
making money, spending money, saving the orphans or whatever the
hell he’s doing now, but he’s like doing something. They like plan.
How you handle this conveys a lot to people. Immediate or delayed
response, same thing, if you think you are in the servant role, then you
will to want to respond to everybody quickly. From a client control
standpoint, it’s the worse thing you’ll ever do to yourself because you’ll
set up an expectation you can’t possibly meet on a continuous basis.
Then, you will wind up with everybody unhappy and pissed off. If it
becomes part of your reputation before you reign it in, that is you
become successful, you can’t meet the expectation. It’s hopeless.
You can respond to one person quickly, maybe today you can respond
to that person quickly. I can’t respond to anyone quickly today. I’m
here. I haven’t been able to respond to anybody for four days this
week, because two days ago I had an all day consultation with
somebody. I don’t let anything interrupt that. It’s not fair to the person
giving me $12,800 to be interrupted.
If you’re in a room with me, you’re in a room with me. I’m not making
phone calls. I’m not taking phone calls. I’m not checking email. It’s not
fair to you.
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Harvey here flies all the way over here from London, gives me $12,800
to sit in a room with me all day. Harvey deserves my undivided
attention.
So, two days ago, I couldn’t respond to anybody quickly. Yesterday, I
couldn’t respond to anybody quickly. Today, I can’t respond to anybody
quickly. Tomorrow, I can’t respond to anybody quickly. Monday, I’m
traveling from here to the other house. So, that’s five days I can’t
respond.
Even I tried to, now we just hit a five day window where it’s impossible.
If my reputation was, boy he responds to everybody quickly, now these
five days are deadly because there’s going to be a whole bunch of
people wanting to get responded to quickly, and they’re all going to be
annoyed and irritated and aggravated and all of that.
Then, from a marketing standpoint, from a marketing yourself
standpoint, that’s the sales instinct now. So, the servant instinct on the
service side, the sales instinct on the other side. I’ve got a lead. This
person asked me for a proposal. This person asked me for a quote.
I’ve got to respond right now.
It’s the worst thing you can do because that’s only what unimportant
people do. That’s only what sales people do. What Nero Wolfe does,
after the whole meeting is over and the $100,000 check is on the desk,
is he says, “I’ll think about it and I’ll get back to you tomorrow.”
He doesn’t whip out a contract. He doesn’t grab the check and run
over to the safe. That’s not what important people do. Important people
take their time.
Now, when you’re broke or when you have like one client, it’s harder to
resist this impulse than when you’re not, but I always resisted the
impulse with like nothing going on.
Max Maltz talks about in Psycho-Cybernetics, the first patient who ever
called. Your tendency is to say, “Come on in. How quick can you get
here?” Bad thing to say.
You have to resist these impulses. You have to resist the salesman
impulse, not that you don’t sell, but you have to resist the salesman
impulse to leap on red meat the minute you see it. You have to resist
the servant impulse to view what you do as service.
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In some businesses, that’s not true, by the way. I’m talking about our
business. Bail bondsmen, we want that guy to have a service attitude.
If you’re carrying a bail bondsman business card in your pocket, you
kind of want that sucker to be available right now, not two days from
now after you’ve been in the smelly place with Brutus for two nights.
That’s not good if you’re a bail bondsman.
Us, you got to think long and hard about this from a positioning
standpoint and even more important from a client satisfaction
standpoint. If you think the way to keep clients is to twist yourself in a
pretzel, bend over backwards, run when called, leap at a moment’s
notice, you will not satisfy clients that way.
You may temporarily satisfy them. You won’t keep them for the long
haul because you won’t be able to meet that expectation over the long
haul.
If it becomes your reputation, you’ve had it. You’ve had it because the
more successful you become, the worse it gets. Now, they all expect
instant, quick, fast response.
Why won’t I write copy during a consulting day? In some cases, I could
whip off a paragraph or two of copy for somebody. I could rewrite their
ad in a consulting day. Why? They see it, and now they tell other
people. Pretty soon, it becomes part of my reputation.
Kennedy can write copy at the drop of a hat. At the drop of a dime, he
can write copy. He can rewrite your ad. He can do it right there in front
of you while you wait. Copywriting while you wait, bad idea, variety of
reasons including the fact I can’t always do it.
It’s an expectation that could not be sustained over time. It lowers
value, etc. You really have to give a lot of thought about this.
Question:
Dan:
I just have a quick question. When you’re selling your program-
You do realize that is your perpetual and constant preframing, which is
very good. I just have a quick question. It’s never a quick question, and
it’s never a simple question, but you preface every question you ask
with, “I just have a quick question.” Are you doing it on purpose?
Question:
No, I’m not. Now, I have to stop and think about it. When you sell
something for a really high ticket item, do you have a standard
guarantee that you offer with it? Do you even bother to offer one?
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Dan:
I’ll tell you something very interesting about guarantees. Harvey and I
talked about this yesterday. The higher the caliber of the client and or
the higher the price of the thing being sold, the less guarantees are
necessary, important or relevant. It’s the exact opposite of what you
would think.
A guy buying a $300 item for whom $300 is a significant amount of
money, great guarantees are almost essential to make the sale. The
guy buying a $3,000 item for whom $3,000 is significant, a guarantee
is not as necessary.
A guy buying a $30,000 item, whether the $30,000 is significant to him
or not, the guarantee is not particularly important in most cases
because even to be in a position to make a $30,000 purchase from
you, he’s kind of gotten past the point that he needs that kind of
reassurance.
Somebody making a $30,000 purchase from whom $30,000 is not
significant cares even less about the guarantee than $3,000 even
when $3,000 is insignificant.
The analogy is in the seminar business, a $300 seminar, you’ve got to
have food. You’ve got have coffee and donuts and rolls and juice in the
morning, and you’ve got to put out cookies in the afternoon. You’ve got
to give them all nice notebooks and pens when they get there or they
all complain. At $3,000, you can get by with coffee and juice. At
$30,000, you can give them water. They don’t care.
You would think it would be the exact opposite but it isn’t because they
don’t care about that. That’s not why they’re there. So, at $30,000
they’re there to get the information. They’ll tolerate anything. They’ll sit
on the floor. At $300, they’re all complaining that the chairs don’t have
arms.
The guarantee is less necessary the higher up the afffluency ladder
you go, the longer you’ve had the relationship with the client, and the
higher the price tag.
Having said all that, the quick answer to your quick question is that, no,
sometimes I’ve used them. Sometimes I haven’t. Sometimes I’ve sold
anti-guarantee with very strong language. If you need a guarantee,
don’t buy it.
It is situational to a degree. I used to on consulting days for many,
many years, my standard verbiage, now it’s only if somebody asks
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which is as rare as hen’s teeth. My standard verbiage was you pay
whatever the fee was, and at the end of the day one of three things
happens. One is we had a good day. You got value for one reason or
another. We’re not going to do nothing. We hug, and everybody’s
happy. Two is you had a good day. We figured out something I should
be doing for you, in which case the fee for the day is fully credited
towards the fee for the project, or three, if you really think you wasted
your time at the end of the day, I hand you your check back.
I don’t even bother saying it anymore, but I did for a long period of
time, and probably over the years, two or three times handed a check
back. Two or three times, sent people home, gave them a check back
to get rid of them.
I’m serious. I had four guys who I’ll never forget these guys, and they
didn’t come out of NSA. They came out of ASTD. These four guys
owned a sales training company, and they bugged me. So, they get a
day of consulting. In they come, and by ten o’clock in the morning they
actually confess that their entire problem in life is that none of the four
of them can sell, wants to sell, or even likes to sell. They want to know
how to get their program sold without them having to do any selling.
I suggested they all get jobs in car washes. I gave them their money
back, and paid for their airline tickets and sent them home. That hasn’t
happened in a long time either.
At the lower levels, not only do you need them, but you like to lean on
the guarantee to make the sale. At the higher places, if you have it, it’s
almost an “Oh by the way.”
You shouldn’t pressure yourself into guaranteeing where you don’t
need to, or guaranteeing what you can’t. I have gotten asked about
copywriting services more than anything else because they’re paying a
lot of money and they’re actually getting work product.
What happens is I give you $125,000, and you write all this stuff, and
we run the ads and they don’t work. What’s your guarantee? The
guarantee is there is none.
First of all, there’s too many variables I can’t control. So, they may run
the ads, but did they answer the phone? They may run the ads, but did
they send the package out.
Sometimes, I’m going to fail. So, the only guarantee in that
arrangement is because I’m fee plus royalty. As long as the client is
paying the royalty and testing, I’ll keep tweaking. Basically, as long as
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you’re continuing to spend money trying to make it work, I’ll keep
redoing it trying to make it work. There ain’t no guarantee it’s ever
going to work. I can’t recall losing one. I just can’t.
Question: I have a really quick question. My question is now that I royally
screwed it up, and ticked off a couple of clients, how do I go back to
now having a position of authority? I went to them. I did all these
things I think because I wanted to prove that yes I really do know your
stuff.
Look, I can do it, so now that I believe I can do it, how do I get back to
that point? Should I just get rid of those three clients, and then move
on?
Dan:
I don’t think either is necessary. It’s not like you’ve done it with fifty.
How big of a nightmare can they be? There’s only three of them.
Question:
Dan:
They’re a nightmare because it’s way less than I should have
charged them.
Well, everybody has got those. I’ve got grandfather clients that I
shudder when I hear from them. Well, because they’re paying so much
less than anybody else is. I don’t have many, but I have them.
I don’t think it’s a big deal. I think you don’t make whatever you now
view as mistakes, you don’t make them again. You don’t go out of your
way to stimulate additional business from these people, but you, of
course, fulfill all your obligations.
You lean on them for non-monetary compensation, testimonials, be on
a teleseminar, come present what we’ve done together at a chapter
meeting. You make a big deal out of the fact that they are paying less.
Now, if they become a time problem or a management problem, then
you have to sit down and have the “come to Jesus” talk. Look, you got
me when I was new, and that’s fine. You’re paying X, but everybody
else is paying Y. Here’s the rules of engagement that they’re operating
under. Here’s the rules of engagement you got to operate under, and if
you can’t operate under those rules, then we should part company as
friends.
By the way, nine out of ten times, when you have to have that
conversation, they repent, apologize, and get back into good behavior.
Nine out of ten times, when it becomes the equivalent of, “Show me
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your exercise. You didn’t do your exercise. You can’t be here as a
patient,” they start doing the exercises.
Nine out of ten times when you have to sit somebody down and say,
“Hey, look, you can’t be sending me twelve faxes a day each one with
a separate question on it. This is not the way we play. If this is the only
thing that will make you happy, then we need to find you somebody
who will work with you on that basis, but it can’t be me.”
Nine out of ten times, they whip back into shape. They’ve never, in
many cases had anybody say that to them before, not for a long time.
So, I don’t think you’ve got a horrible problem.
Question:
Dan:
I too have a quick question. This one is about costuming, and how the
costuming thing with the Joel Bauer suit and playing that game in
Thompson Falls, Montana where the chamber has 27 members. It’s a
farming and logging community.
That’s exactly the point I made earlier is there’s geographic and
cultural differences that have to be considered. Now, if you want a big
thumb rule, the big thumb rule is you’re better off being overdressed
than underdressed for every environment that you are in.
However, that implies cultural differences. For example, if you go to a
$1,000 a plate political fundraising thing in Los Angeles, California,
everybody is going to be dressed, and if the invitation indicated formal
or business attire, nine out of ten guys are going to be in tuxes.
If you go to the same $1,000 a plate dinner with the same invitation in
Cleveland, Ohio, thirty percent of them are going to be in tuxes.
Everybody else is going to be in suits and some people are going to be
in sportcoat jackets and ties.
There’s geographic adjustments, so you don’t want to look so far out of
Montana that it’s city slicker from the east or the arrogant moron. First
of all, there’s obvious value of clothing and shoes and symbols and so
forth.
There’s a difference between what you buy at JC Penney and what
you buy at Nieman’s, even in casual clothes. There’s a quality
difference that is apparent to people and will actually make a difference
about how you feel internally.
If they’re coming to the meeting in jeans and flannel shirts and jackets,
you might want to be in khakis and a Glazer Kennedy Inner Circle shirt,
and a nice sport coat. That may be as far as you want to go.
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Question:
Dan:
I’ve been to a Montana Senatorial receptions where half the people in
the room were in jeans.
You want to be above it, but not so far above it that it is ridiculous. I
also think you want to be consistent. You want to sort of have your
movie star uniform or three uniforms that are sort of consistent for you.
I found some very interesting things about it as a speaker. I found that
when I lived in Phoenix and much was made of bull and Phoenix and
all of that, even if I was speaking in New York, if I wore street shoes
instead of boots, people were disappointed. They expected the boots.
I can tell you categorically on the platform, you sell more in a suit than
you do in a sport coat, shirt and tie, and you definitely sell more with tie
than without. There’s some profound generalities that cover it, but then
there are these cultural, geographic differences. I absolutely think it’s
reasonable. Phoenix in July, nobody’s wearing a tie. They’re just not
doing it, and hardly anybody is wearing a jacket. Now, in many cases,
you’re going to something no tie, no jacket, but boy you better make
sure that the shirt’s a really good shirt.
Sort of an extension of that is I’m on page 38 for those of you keeping
score. Again, viewing selling as well as the delivery of what it is that we
do as performance art, then control of environment, staging, timing, all
of these things become important.
In all businesses, hardly anybody thinks through these things much.
Charlie and I have talked about, and I don’t remember now where you
told me the research came from or where I saw the research, and
there’s a little variance by age, but in a dental office – you can leap in
and correct me if I screw this up, but I think I got it right.
In a dental office, and for that matter most medical offices and most
chiropractic offices, there tend to be three ways that patients are
brought from front to back.
One is the person behind the counter yells out, “Mr. Tucker, the
doctor’s ready for you in the back.” Tucker gets up. He puts his
magazine down, and schleps over to the door.
Another is she stands up and comes around the counter and still yells,
“Mr. Tucker, the doctor’s ready for you in the back.” Tucker puts his
magazine down and schleps over, and she opens the door for him to
go into the back.
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The third is she comes all the way out into the reception area, comes
over to Mr. Tucker’s side and says, “Mr. Tucker, the doctor is ready for
you in the back,” escorts Mr. Tucker to the door, opens the door, and
hands Tucker off to whoever is on the other side of the door.
Any one of those three things can happen in the office. The satisfaction
level of the patient, the acceptance of recommendations level of the
patient varies profoundly based on which one of those three things
happen.
Now, in chiropractic, we always taught a particular office tour. For
example, one of the things we always taught chiropractors for $30,000
was how to do a good office tour, and that has to be customized a little
bit for each office.
Fundamentally, you’re going to take this person around the first time to
every place as if you were taking them through a tour of Disney World,
and there’s a script for it, and there’s signage for it.
One of the first things I did when I took over a manufacturing company,
General Cassette where we had clients come and we sold them, is we
created the General Cassette tour. We took you around from machine
to machine, station to station, and showed you how your cassette
program is going to come to fruition. We had big signs above every
machine. We had really crappy machines, but we had good signs.
Here this is the triple XYZ TMZ duplicator with five built in quality
control dumafluges, and here’s what happens here. So, we had a tour,
and we put the staff, even the manufacturing people, in nice little
jackets with logos on them so they looked more like Starbucks people
than illegal immigrants, which is what they were.
We dressed them up. We dressed the place up. We created a script,
and we had three or four people who knew the script. The signage kind
of controlled the script, and off the person went off with the tour, same
thing in the chiropractic office. They take them. Here’s the restroom.
Here’s the therapy room, and then there’s a sign on the wall about the
therapy room and the five machines and there’s testimonials up in the
wall, nice frames testimonials with pictures of the patients that match
each thing that you are showing them on the tour.
This is a very choreographed event. This has to happen in a certain
way. The person should be on this side, not on this side. When I first
learned selling, I had two sales training experiences.
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One was the year I worked as a book rep for Price/Stern/Sloan. They
hired me. They handed me he catalogue, and they handed me the
computer print out of everybody that was in my five state territory, and
said, “Go get’em Bubba.”
Then, about a month later, they sent in one of their other sales guys to
ride around with me for a week, who pretty much taught me how to
cheat on your expense account, how to pick up really drunk unhappy
married women in Holiday Inn bars, and how to get an illegal credit
card machine so you can document for your expense accounts that
you were somewhere you had never gone. Those are the three things
he taught me how to do.
That was their sales training program. I’m not quite sure they fully
understood the sales training program that they were actually
delivering, but that was their sales training program.
There was no training of, “When you walk into a professional
purchasing agent’s office at Macy’s, and sit down to present to him.”
There was no training of, “What do you do? How do you enter the
room? Where do you sit?,” none of that.
My guess is nobody had ever given any thought to it. Consequently,
everybody did it differently. I ultimately within a year’s time had all that
worked out in my head and was doing a consistent thing over and over
again that worked.
The second sort of sales training experience I had was fairly early in
multi-level, and in the multi-level experience, our modus operandi was
you brought them to hotel meetings, pros put on the meeting. You
would bring your guests.
At best, you’re going to have one couple or two couples. All that was
now choreographed and taught. So, if I have two couples, we’re going
to sit there and the presentation’s going. When the presentation’s over,
I’ve got to close two couples simultaneously, and I’ve got each of you
to fill out forms and give me money and get a kit.
Well, the most important choreography about all that is where you sit.
You’ve got to sit between the two couples so that without getting up
you can scoot your folding chair out at the end, and scoot around to
face the two couples without ever getting up.
If you don’t get up, they don’t get up. If you get up, they get up and you
lose control of them in a hot second. You can’t keep control of two
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couples. You may be able to keep control of one, but the other one
wanders off.
If you scoot your chair right, and spin it out in front of them, they don’t
get up because you didn’t get up. You’ve got to practice that. First of
all, you’ve got to know it, and then you’ve got to learn it. Then, you’ve
got to practice, and then you’ve got to teach it to the other people who
are doing it.
We practiced the proper handshake. There’s a proper way to do a
handshake, and there’s an improper way to do a handshake, and you
get different results from different things.
All that was scripted, planned, strategized, taught, and it was extremely
helpful. Hardly anybody thinks through their whole process this way.
When I spoke at the Peter Lowe events, I was always the last person
on after the last famous guy, or woman. So, the last famous person is
leaving, and then early on we introduce me, and that took too much
time and too many people left.
I had been introduced earlier, so now there’s just an offstage
announcement that says, literally has George Bush or whoever is
walking off, there’s an offstage announcement that says, “Now, here’s
Dan Kennedy.” There I am.
Well, I quickly figured out there’s a big difference between waiting until
President Bush is down the steps and coming up, and coming up
before President Bush can get down the steps, for a couple of reasons.
One, speed, the other is I’m seen with President Bush, and I get to
shake hands, pat on shoulder, great job, and go past him out to do my
thing. That’s a much different experience for the people who are
standing up thinking about leaving than the other way.
Now, the Secret Service, by the way, doesn’t like it when you’re doing
it with an ex-president, but never the less, it’s important. So, you think
all this through again what at a seminar, at a coaching meeting. What
works best for you?
You don’t do it by random, if this is performance. You plan it. You script
it, and again to use the word, you choreograph it. Again, hardly
anybody thinks it through.
If we go into a chain, if we go into an optical store chain or we go into
our client now Miracle Ear or whatever, and we go into ten stores
today, everything’s going to be different in all ten of them.
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The way we’re greeted is going to be different, how they handle us
physically is going to be different, how they shake hands don’t shake
hands when they shake hands is going to be different.
One is going to be using a metal clipboard. The other one is going to
be using a leather folder. One is going to sit across from the person.
Somebody else is going to sit next to them. All that should be – there’s
one way of doing that that’s more effective than all of the other ways,
and all that should be figured out and in a multi-person or multi-unit
business, it should be institutionalized.
The fire alarm business, I have a client in the fire alarm business, and
when the fire alarm salesman arrives at your home, he walks in with
the DVD thing now. He used to drag his big projector in. Now, he walks
in with a DVD thing, and he walks in with the stuffed Dalmatian dog
under his arm, which is the gift with appointment.
There’s an enormous difference in the sales results depending on what
you do with that dog. How you give it to them and if there are kids that
you bring your closing up enormously if there is kids, if the sales
person takes the dog like this, drops down to one knee, introduces the
dogs to the kids – there’s a script for it – and presents the dog to the
kids.
If you don’t do that, if you like plop the dog down on the floor, or you sit
down at the diningroom table before it affects numbers. So, now the
trick is to try and get 500 fire alarm sales guys to all do it right.
All you’re trying to do is get you to do it right. So, your job is to figure
out in every one of your situations what the best performance is, and
then do it.
This is, by the way, the consulting and coaching business that Sydney
and I are developing. She is intuitively brilliant at it, and identifying
what the choreography out to be of a face to face sale. Hardly anybody
gives this any thought. I’m always giving it a lot of thought.
What’s the entrance? What should the entrance look like? For
example, there’s a reason I never wanted to be picked up at airports.
It’s not that I want to stand there and wait for a cab or try and find my
own way to the hotel.
It’s not really that I’m anti-social. I am, but that’s not primarily. The
reason I don’t want to be picked up at the airports is because I can’t
control the impact, the impression, the environment of that.
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If I’m going to give a speech, my first interaction with the client is now
under conditions that don’t work for me. I want to control that meeting,
not have god knows what happening during that meeting. There’s the
whole issue of what you’re seen doing.
Now, this is relatively rare. For example, this event, number one, not
trying to sell you anything, so that changes things dramatically.
Number two, we got a relationship, etc.
Most of the time, you would not see me carrying my own bag into the
room, not because I’m above carrying bags. It’s not a prima donna
thing. I do more ugly gritty manual labor work than most people would
imagine. It’s not about that.
Silent
Messages
Speak As
Loudly As Do
Spoken
Messages
It’s about it’s a bad message. There’s this famous story that ends with
the punch line of Sinatra turning to everybody and saying, “Frank
Sinatra doesn’t move pianos.”
There’s certain things important people do and certain things important
people don’t do, and certain things unimportant people do, and certain
things unimportant people don’t do. You’ve got to think about what
message everything you’re seen doing sends.
Where you sit in a coaching environment is pretty important. How you
sit, you sit down at their level, that’s sends one kind of message and
sends one kind of environment. If you sit up here, that sends a different
kind of message, sets a different kind of environment.
At an event like this, I don’t want to be up on a platform. It gives me a
little bit more control, but it distances me from you. I want this to be a
dialogue as much as possible. If I were here to sell you a $20,000
something, I’d want to be up on a platform. I might still use a stool, but
I want to be up on a platform. Your physical environment in which you
work with people is important. When you enter rooms is important,
before everybody, after everybody, with everybody.
Do you stand in line at the buffet with them? Do you bump the line? Do
you not eat at the buffet at all? All of these things are important. I went
upstairs and had lunch with Bill. It was more that I needed to have
lunch with Bill then it was posturing. If I had stayed down here, I
would’ve bumped the line.
I would’ve politely bumped the line, and I would’ve been funny about it,
but I would’ve bumped the line. Now, at platinum, when there’s only
twenty of us and we have a different kind of relationship, I don’t care.
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I’ll go last. I’ll just take my place in line with everybody else, but here I
would’ve bumped the line.
Standing in line with everybody else sends the wrong message. When
someone comes to my house for a consulting day, my Ohio house,
and there I have all kinds of stuff. Here, they rent a suite at the Hyatt
that’s a walking distance to my condo, and we meet in the hotel.
In my Ohio house, I have all my stuff there because it’s where I work. I
can, of course, prepare if I know that Charlie Martin is coming for a day
of consulting, I know kind of what we’re going to talk about, and I know
what might be interesting for him to see.
I could go round it all up ahead of time, and have it in the conference
room. That doesn’t have near the impact of me going and hunting
something down for him while he was there, and dredging it out of
archives and files, killing the deer and dragging it back into the room
for him while he’s there. That has much more impact.
Consequently, I don’t go find the stuff ahead of time. It has more
impact if I go hunt for it while he’s waiting for me to hunt for it. It has
the added benefit of not requiring preparation for consulting days, but
setting that aside, it’s just like one thing may have a time management
benefit that also has a positioning and posturing reason. This too, has
a practical benefit. I don’t have to prepare.
If I prepare, I’m going to round up eight or ten things, and maybe he
really only winds up seeing three of them, so now I did a bunch of
preparation for nothing. This way, I’m using his time that he’s paying
for to do the hunt, not my time on the day before to do the hunt, and he
likes the hunt.
Remember, the job of the performance is to delight that audience. He’s
more delighted because he saw me going to the backroom. He hears
drawers being slammed. I’m in there killing the beast, and “Oh, look, I
found it for you. I didn’t know if I was going to be able to get it, but here
it is.”
They like that better, so why not do it? It’s part of the performance.
Sometimes I know where it is, but I go in the backroom and I stand
there and count, “One thousand one, one thousand two, one thousand
three,” and then I come out with what it is that I found.
Now, again, as I was preparing for this and thinking through these
things, this is the first time I’ve consciously thought about it, and
therefore enunciated it in a long time. I do it unconsciously by rote. It’s
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been so long since I’ve had a conscious thought, I can’t even tell you
when I didn’t do it, when I started doing it. I don’t know any of that
anymore.
I do know that there’s a different impact from both ways. I have neatly
organized everything ahead of time, and people aren’t impressed, but
they are really impressed if they see me go find it. So, better they
should see me go find it.
It’s the same thing as if I could write them a headline right then and
there, and I do it. That’s not as impressive, as if they think I agonized
after they left and lost sleep over this and then faxed it to them the next
day. They’re more impressed. It’s the same three minutes. It’s just that
they didn’t see the three minutes.
If the three minutes was like really impressive, if I waved my hand and
the headline came out of the hand, well then I’d want to do it in front of
them because that’s pretty cool, but just seeing me thinking of it and
write it on a piece of paper. That’s not really cool.
So, now the mental picture they have of, “Oh my god, he sweated all
night over this, and he dug around in his files and he found this,” has
more impact. It has even more impact if they wait three or four days to
get it.
How Do You exercise control?
That leads us to forty. This is a real important statement. You can not
abruptly and occasionally exercise control. You can’t have no bed time
with the kids for months, and then because Aunt Jane is staying over
trying to impose bed time. Lots of luck.
We either have control or we don’t have control. We can’t not have
control and occasionally get it, in times when we really need it or want
it. So, you sort of build control continuously from the beginning all the
way through the relationship.
In selling right, we exercise control in many cases by when we put the
paperwork in front of them or how we have part of it filled out ahead of
time for them.
Larry Wilson’s sales training company, I can’t think of the name now,
but they did some research and in controlled tests, and I don’t know
how valid the tests were but I buy the results, so I’m going to say the
tests are valid. People are fifty percent more likely to buy something to
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accept a purchase if the paperwork is partially filled out for them in
advance than if the paperwork is blank to start with.
Well, once you hear it, of course, it makes perfect sense especially if
it’s been filled out by hand, and the paperwork is worthless if they don’t
use it. Now, they feel guilty and there’s a sense of obligation to use the
paperwork because somebody went through all the trouble to fill out
the paperwork for them as opposed to starting with a blank thing.
Salespeople have a lot of ways that they can take control. In coaching
meetings, group environment is relatively small group. You can
exercise control by place. Do they come to you? Do you go to them?
Do you have it in a neutral location? What is the neutral location like?
How is the seating arrangement made, etc?
For example, in my platinum group, I’ve had as few as twelve. I’ve had
as many as twenty, and this year, I think we have 21 coming to the
meetings.
At twelve and fifteen and sixteen, you can do all that in two days with a
boardroom set up. Everybody is sitting at a table. Everybody takes
their turn and talks. Everybody joins in. You can play traffic cop enough
to get through that. At twenty people, you can’t do it. You won’t be
able to exercise enough control, so the platinum meeting done with the
bigger number, everybody’s at a boardroom table or horseshoe table,
but I’m up in front with a stool at a table. There’s an extra stool, and
really we’re doing hot seats. Each person comes up. We do their hot
seat. They go back and sit down. It gives me more control over the
schedule, the person, the interaction. It’s easier for me to play cop. I’d
rather do it the other way, but I’ve got too many people, so I’ve got to
do it in the most effective way because I’m with the people that I’ve
got.
Rules, you’ve got to have rules. Everybody’s got to know the rules. By
the way, you can’t tell them the rules at the beginning of the year, and
then forget it. They got a lot on their minds, and remembering the rules
isn’t one. It’s real low on their priority list.
Also, the more successful the people are that you have in a coaching
environment with you, of course, the less likely they are to follow rules
because one of the reasons they’re successful is because they don’t
follow rules.
Now, you’re trying to get them to follow rules. By the way, encouraging
them not to follow rules in everything else they do, but by god, follow
your rules.
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The rules better be pretty damn clear, and they better be reminded of
them every single time. I’ve got people who have been in platinum for
ten years. They still get a memo before the meeting that reminds them
of the rules. They have to be there on time. Don’t be late. Don’t leave
early. Don’t bring a cell phone.
You’ve got to do it. If you do not have clear rules, and you do not
remind them of them, your coaching environment will disintegrate a
little bit each time until you suddenly realize there’s chaos. Putting that
genie back in the bottle isn’t easy.
Order, you’ve got to think through what’s going to happen, how many
minutes this is supposed to take, how many minutes this is supposed
to take. You kind of have to have a little schedule. You kind of got to
know where you’re supposed to be, and you have to enforce
everything.
Mostly, group coaching meeting is mostly about playing traffic cop.
They’re about keeping one person from dominating the conversation
over others, about encouraging the timid to get in the game. Gee,
Steven, you’ve been quite for the last hour. You must have some
thoughts about this. Then, you shut up, and now Steven will talk.
So, you’ve got to be aware, oh shoot, Steven hadn’t been involved for
the last two hours. Well, Steven ain’t going to be here next year if
Steven isn’t involved. If you make him involved too much, then you
won’t keep him either because different people want to be involved at
different levels, but he’s got to be involved a little bit. He’s got to have
his moment in the sun a little bit. He’s got to give his opinions a little
bit.
You’re traffic copping. You’re keeping anybody from dominating.
You’re keeping an argument into turning a full blown fight where
nobody likes anybody anymore. You’re keeping the thing from turning
into a bitch, moan and complain session. A little bit of that is okay, but
not a lot.
You’re watching the clock, so you can’t have the last two people
participating in your coaching group have eight minutes apiece, and
everybody else had an hour.
You can’t have them cheating so
somebody’s leaving early all the time or out making phone calls while
somebody else is taking a turn. That’s no good.
I do stuff like if somebody’s starting to abuse that, now we start our
meeting until everybody gets their behavior back in shape, we draw for
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who goes in what order. You don’t get to volunteer, and I don’t pick
you. Whoever left early last time, you’re last this time. You leave early
again, you don’t get a turn at all, and you’re last. You’re playing cop.
You’re making sure that everybody’s having a good experience, that
the game is well played by all.
In a client relationship, your biggest building blocks of control are
mostly ones we’ve already talked about, the fact that they come to you
rather than you going to them, that you control their access, again that
you have rules. You’ve got to have rules for one on one clients, too.
They’ve got to know what the rules are. You can’t expect them to
behave well if you haven’t told them how they’re supposed to behave,
and you can’t call them on it when they behave badly.
I tell people to send me stuff by Federal Express, and I mean Federal
Express. I don’t mean pony express. I don’t mean DHL. I don’t mean
UPS. I don’t mean priority meal. Damnit, I mean Federal Express,
especially the handful of clients that have access to send stuff directly
to me in Ohio when I am there and working on their stuff rather than
through Vicky in Phoenix because where I get my stuff in Ohio, only
Federal Express manages to get it there. The DHL guy can’t find the
place. The UPS guy, sometimes he finds it, some days he doesn’t.
Who knows? Federal Express, the guy knows where I’m at.
I tell everybody Federal Express. Now, I have the right when some
nitwit sends it the other way to send them a fax and say, “What part of
Federal Express didn’t you get? I said FedEx. Your problems now exist
because you couldn’t follow instruction.”
If you didn’t give them any instruction to start with, you can’t really be
aggravated at them, and you’re not exercising control. By the way, if I
had no practical reason for what I just said, the very act of specifying
precisely the way or ways in which you can deliver things to me is an
exercise of control even if I had no practical need to do it. It would be
smart to do it. In this case, I have a practical reason to do it. I even
have sort of a necessity to do it, but even if I didn’t, it would be smart to
do it because I’m building blocks of control.
If they have to go through a process and they have to think to
themselves, “Okay, I’m going to go to Dan’s meeting. How am I
supposed to behave at Dan’s meeting?”, which they don’t have that
thought about any place they’re going. “Okay, I’ve got to communicate
with him. How am I supposed to communicate with him again?”
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They never have that thought about anybody else. Who has the most
control over them? I’ve got the most control over them because they’re
having to modify their behavior all the time to conform to my rules. It
makes easy to impose a new rule by the way too, if you had rules. It’s
real hard to impose a new rule if you haven’t had any rules.
Contracts, we’re going to talk about this in depth later, and when I
show you sample documents, but here’s the big it about this. Paper,
don’t do anything without paper. It’s amazing to me how many times I
am sitting with people who are in complex relationships. They’re
halfway into projects. Their partners in businesses, and now they’ve
got problems, and they have no contracts, nothing.
You have got to be kidding me. We have nothing, no contracts. They
won’t sign up for like pest control at their house without a contract, but
a million dollar business deal, “Oh, yeah, we’ve known each other for
years. We can work out anything.”
Contracts, the contracts include the rules, the behavior, and so, we’ll
get into sample docs later. I’ll show you some samples, and delays in
response.
Another part of this is making people dependent upon you. Many of
you have heard me say, Werner Earhart had started EST. I asked
Werner give me the truth about EST in five minutes or less, and he
said, “We preach independence and we breed dependence.” That’s
EST.
Well, to a great degree, all of our businesses are the same. We want
them to feel dependent on us, all the time teaching them all the ways
they can go and be independent.
Here’s the corollary to this which is really important to understand. It’s
in just about anything you would consult with people about, you would
be delivering to people in coaching, you would be teaching to people.
After a year, they got the mechanics.
The mechanics of whatever you do and whatever it is that I do ain’t
that tough. They’re really not that complicated. Direct response isn’t
that complicated, for example, for me. You need an offer. You need a
story. You need a headline, and you need somebody to put in front of
who it might have a chance of being interesting to.
That’s about it. The rest of it is all nuance and teaching the same
principle with a different story. Your stuff is the same, whatever it is
that you do.
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They’re not dependent on you for your core content or your core
competency very long. They have to be dependent upon you for other
reasons. The three big its are here.
It’s helpful if they believe you’re the only one who can do what you do.
I own race horses. We have a guy who rebuilds hooves. This is kind of
important, by the way, because no feet, no horse, bad feet, horse won’t
race, and their feet have a lot of problems because there’s however
many pounds there is on these little tiny feet. They crack sometimes,
and they literally crack all the way up the hoof. There’s a handful things
you can do. You can use metal and you can put them together. There’s
some glop you can use, but there’s this one guy. He’s got his own
proprietary glop. He’s a magician at this. To watch it is a performance.
It takes like an hour and a half, and he comes and he rebuilds the hoof
with this glop. Ultimately, the hoof grows with the glop on it, and
eventually you cut the glop off, and bingo, you’ve got a foot back.
Now, the stuff is pretty miraculous, but he’s even more miraculous. The
routine he goes through – I’ve now concluded the routine is all for
show, because it’s the same glop on the same hoof every single time.
He’s only got one glop. The procedure is the same. I’ve watched him
three times.
The hour and a half, the first hour is this diagnostic bullshit thing. He’s
picking the hoof. He’s measuring this. He’s measuring that. He’s
making little notes in his notebook. I’m watching and I’m thinking,
“What the hell is he doing?” Ultimately, he does the same thing
everytime.
His name is Rusty, and he’s about five times as expensive as any
other option you can do for this. It’s like a thousand bucks a hoof. You
get a cracked hoof, you call him, and you leave a message. He goes
from track to track. You can get him for five grand if it’s an emergency,
and he’ll drop what he’s doing and come.
Otherwise, you might wait three or four days until he’s back in Ohio
from Pennsylvania, or he’s in Pennsylvania instead of New Jersey.
Sometimes there’s a waiting list. Sometimes I can’t get to you for two
weeks, do this in the meantime. The guy is beyond belief.
We all believe he’s the only guy who can do that. I’ve watched him do
it. I know I couldn’t do it, but I think probably any blacksmith who paid
attention could figure it out in two or three times, and he’ll sell you the
glop. You can go to the website and buy the glop.
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We are all convinced he is the only guy who can do this and get it right,
so we will wait. We will fly him in. We will do what we’ve got to do to
get him. It is useful to have people believe that.
It is not particularly difficult to have people believe that. They actually
want to believe that, and that’s important to understand. Now they
found you. They got you. They want to believe you’re unique. That’s
like important to them. They pretty much will convince themselves
you’re the only one who can do the one thing that is your greatest core
competency. If just sort of encourage them in it, but once they believe
it, they’re very dependent on you.
My experience at Guthy Renker is sort of interesting. The first thing I
did for Guthrie Ranker was I did some tweaks to the offer of the Think
and Grow Rich infomercial which was their first show, and it was dying.
It had had a good run, but it was starting to do this.
I did a couple of things and it went back up like this. It continued for a
period of time, and everybody made a lot of money. The next show
they did was Personal Power One, the first Tony Robbins show. I didn’t
do much. I rewrote the CTA, and I made a couple of suggestions. I
was on the project team getting paid consulting fees to issue opinions
about everything from which of these three testimonials do you like to
that sort of stuff.
So, Think and Grow Rich came back to life, and Personal Power was
of course a huge hit. Quite frankly, Personal Power would’ve been a
huge hit whether I’d been dead, alive, here, not here. It wouldn’t have
made a difference. Personal Power is a huge hit because they
surrounded him with celebrities. They did a pretty good show, and
Tony is a phenomenal sales person.
However, having done those two things and having two successes in a
row in a field in which they had no experience or expertise, they come
to the conclusion that I’m the rabbit foot.
We don’t dare do a show without Kennedy. We’re not exactly sure
what hell kind of contribution he’s making, but we’re pretty sure we
ought to at least rub the master on his head before we send it off to the
stations.
Now, they wouldn’t enunciate it that way, and I wouldn’t enunciate that
way in front of him, but fundamentally that’s like where we were. I’m
like the rabbit foot guy.
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For a long time, nothing happened over there without me blessing it. In
many cases, I didn’t do much, but I got paid to, “Yep, that makes
sense.” Rub it here.
Hundreds of thousands of dollars, many hundreds of thousands of
dollars, nobody wanted to do a project meeting without me there. Half
the time, nothing happened in the project meeting. Meetings are
meetings. Twelve people go. They eat bagels. They eat fruit.
Everybody sits around and talks and nothing happens.
You could just as easily send me a recording of the project meeting.
No, I’ve got to be there. We’ll reschedule the project meeting so you
can be here. You’ve got to be here. Why? I want to be sitting there, so
they convinced themselves that somehow, some way, I was doing
something that nobody else could do. That’s a dependency issue.
Second one, there’s something mystical about what you do. Harvey
Dent’s proprietary software that he uses to calculate the trends thing,
your propriety analytic process for finding the eight unexploited
opportunities, your interview strategy, your something, and it’s why
they can’t see you do everything that you do.
It’s a mistake like to be visible doing everything. A lot of what most of
us do, if you see it, ain’t nothing to see. It’s not all that impressive. You
only want them seeing impressive stuff. Impressive to them, by the
way, so running a coaching meeting to the participants, that’s a pretty
impressive thing.
You can’t let them see everything, so you’ve got to go away to your
secret cave where they can not come, and something behind the rock
has to happen. You come back out of the secret cave with the answer
or the thing or the work product or whatever, and they have to really
kind of wonder what’s going on in that secret cave, but they could
never see it.
You can’t ever let them in the secret cave because in most secret
caves, tain’t nothing there. It’s a big disappointment to come in the
secret cave and find out there’s a recliner, and there’s a couple old
Three Stooges movies and a DVD player. That’s a big disappointment
to everybody.
There’s got to be something mystical about what you do to them, not in
reality. Third, this is kind of important, there always has to be the
thought that there’s a next. Dependence is bred by the fact they can’t
leave because there’s a next thing coming. You’re going to come up
with something, something at that next meeting is this is going to
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happen at this meeting. It’s fabulous, and it’s never happened at a
meeting before. You’ve never seen it before.
Something is going to happen on this next call, and it’s never
happened on a call before. Something is going to be in the next CD,
that’s never been in a CD before. There’s got to be a next.
Next year, something’s going to be different. All my coaching programs
have changed some way every year, little, but every year. Why? If you
leave it the same, then everybody thinks, “Already been there, done
that.” Something has to be different.
The Weight Watchers business, the point thing is the thing they’ve
gone with the longest. They’re into a third year of using the points.
Although they’ve changed how you use the points every year. Prior to
that, it was a new thing every year.
There was the free day deal where one day a week you could eat all
the crap you wanted to and it didn’t count, but you had the follow the
plan the other six days. That was a year.
Then, there was the pick a bad food year. They have better names for
it, you understand. There was the pick a bad food year, so you could
pick one really crappy food, and it didn’t count. You could eat any of
that you wanted to whenever you wanted to, as much of it as you
wanted to, as long as you followed the rest of the program.
One person picked chocolate cake. The other person picked pizza.
Everybody comes to the meeting. It don’t make any difference. By the
way, from a diet standpoint, it doesn’t make any difference. It’s
controlling the numbers. It doesn’t matter how you get to the numbers.
Now, they’ve got this point deal. If you’re around Weight Watchers
people, they don’t have to count calories now. They don’t have to
count fat grams. They don’t have to count carbs. They just count
Weight Watchers points, and everything has a point value. You can
eat any damn thing you want, you just have to make the points add up
right at the end of the day. So, Weight Watchers people are all, “Oh, I
can have that even though it’s 412 points because I didn’t have this.”
They’re all talking points, so there’s a culture.
They’ve got to change it every year. Otherwise, they can’t keep people
coming back and coming back. There’s got to be a what’s next, and
the what’s next at least has to be a little different so everybody is sort
of into what’s going to happen.
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These are big. Your client relationships, here’s some big mistakes. The
first is being too familiar. It really does breed contempt. There has to
be some mystery. You’ve got to let them in, but you can only let them
in so far.
The minute they think they’ve got it all, the minute they think they know
everything you know, have heard everything you have to say, seen
everything you know how to do, they’re gone. They lost interest in you
so fast, your head will spin.
So, you’ve got to be careful what you let them see, what you don’t let
them see. You’ve got to be careful how much you let them hang out
with you in environments where they see more and more of the real
you, less and less of the carefully controlled, embellished presented
you.
I saw a guy destroy a practice management business competing with
ours at the time. A couple of hundred doctors each paying thirty to fifty
thousand dollars for a two year program. He got a big boat, and he
started taking them all out on the boat with them and letting them hang
out on the weekend, ten or twenty at a time, come with me on the boat.
Well, they loved it. The only problem is he and his wife got along like
oh, I don’t know, Bill O’Reilly and the biggest liberal you can think of,
and they fought like cats and dogs the entire time they were on the
boat. They fought unpleasantly. Her more than him, but a lot of foul
language and throwing stuff, bringing up what you did to me sixteen
years ago with so-and-so, you bastard, that sort of thing.
Of course, you don’t go out on a boat for two days without booze, so
now you’ve added alcohol to this formula, which is not such a good
formula.
So, he was now seen in a pretty ugly unpleasant powerless light. It
only took a couple of boat trips, twenty to twenty-five people total. They
all talk to each other. It spread like wildfire, doctors dropping out left
and right. The whole program was over in six months, and he was
back in practice. Too familiar. There’s a way to use that boat, but that
ain’t the way to use that boat.
A bigger one, being friends, that’s not what they are even if you would
like to be. You lose power through friendship. You don’t gain it. The
only people in your life that you have less power over than your friends
are your family.
You family you have almost no power over, even the ones you’re
supporting. Well, you all got one. You all got one, at least one, don’t
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you, who you’re outright supporting. For fun and giggles, go home and
try to get them to do something, anything. Try to get them to read
Think and Grow Rich. Go ahead, have at it. It won’t happen.
You lose power through friendship for a variety of reasons. Friends, for
example, understandably feel they ought to get stuff for free. We’re
friends. If you’re my buddy, and we hang out together, and you use my
lawnmower and I stay at your cabin, etc, it’s just sort of awkward and
inappropriate to charge that person for advice when they come to you
for advice about their business.
It’s a little awkward to charge them $10,000 to come to a seminar if
they’re your buddy and you guys go fishing together four times a year,
and your spouses go to the spa together. It doesn’t fit.
The other thing is you really can’t be a good coach to a friend because
we lie like dogs to our friends. We’re not willing to offend them. We’re
careful about what we say to them. Every friendship you’ve got, you’ve
got a whole little mental list in your head of places we don’t go, things
we don’t say to one another, topics we don’t broach, truths we don’t
tell.
If you’ve got any kind of a lengthy friendship, you’ve rewritten history at
least six times in it by unstated implicit agreement or you wouldn’t still
be friends.
If you’re going to effectively deal with a client, or you’re going to
effectively be a coach to somebody, you can’t be doing that stuff.
You’ve got to pretty much tell them the truth.
The friendship is an enormous barrier to sustaining these relationships.
You can not cross this line. You can be friendly. You want to be
friendly. You can not really be friends.
Let’s take in my case Ron LeGrand. Ron and I have known each other
for I don’t know, 25 years. We’ve done business together for 25 years.
I genuinely and sincerely like Ron. I turn down all social invitations. I’d
actually like to go. I can’t, not unless I’m willing to change the whole
relationship. I can’t do it because in twelve months the whole
relationship would have changed.
So, as much as I might like to go play golf with that guy once a week,
not if he’s in my coaching group. I can’t do it. Now, occasionally, it’s
worth doing, but understand what you’re doing, and go ahead and
change the relationship.
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Don’t kid yourself. Don’t kid the other person. Don’t fool anybody.
We’re not friends. Now, all the rules have changed. It’s real hard to
impose rules on friends.
Familiarity and friendship, Mark Victor Hansen hasn’t given me any
money in 25 years. I got a little bit of money from him 25 years ago. He
hasn’t given me any money in 25 years, and isn’t going to give me any
money. It would benefit him enormously to give me some money. He
isn’t going to give me any money, too familiar. Friends, not day to day
go to the hamburger joint together friends, but friends. Phone calls just
to talk. Send stuff to each other just to get an opinion, too familiar,
know each other too well, know every wart in both directions. He’s not
going to give me any money. Damn sure isn’t going to give me the kind
of money I get now, impossible.
Zig Ziglar, never given me any money, too familiar. It’d benefit him
enormously to give me money, never going to give me money. It’s
about the only two I can think of, but there they are.
So, if you let this happen, it will preclude consulting and coaching
relationships with someone, and you should not waste your time taking
somebody who you have an enormous friendship relationship with or
an enormous amount of familiarity with and putting them into a
coaching or consulting relationship because you ain’t going to be able
to keep control of them.
If you’ve got them in there, you can’t let it change to this unless you are
willing to consciously deliberately make the change. Don’t think you
can walk the tightrope because you can’t.
Some tips, restrict and carefully control social interaction. Politely
decline most social invitations, and if you do socialize, socialize with
them as a group not individually.
If you really like people in your coaching group, great. You all want to
go bowling together on Wednesday night, terrific, but go as a group.
Don’t go with one of them. Don’t go with two of them.
Avoid obligation at all costs, you want people obligated to you. You do
not want to be obligated to them. Age old advice about money, same
advice applies about obligation in general.
My challenge is to have everybody who pays me a lot of money still
feel over and above the money that they pay me that they owe me.
They’re obligated to me, and that I can call upon them for all manner of
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favors and assistance and free work and support, and they still don’t
feel like they’ve discharged the obligation.
The second part of that trick is for them to feel I owe them nothing.
Now, it’s easy to control my feelings by the way. It’s very hard to
obligate me emotionally, but I can’t have them thinking it either. It can
not be in their head. This does not happen by accident. This happens
by giving this thought.
For example, when we were talking about they can’t pay you enough,
so let’s say somebody has just paid $100,000 for a project. I now
deliver the work product of the project. I want to make sure that they
know that I set aside something else I could’ve done, I would’ve made
$200,000 from or I stayed up all night in order to get it done, or here’s
what you paid, but here’s the extra four things.
I went above and beyond, and then if the project works and the project
makes them money, I want to remind, and sometimes I’ll do it jokingly.
Sometimes I’ll do it in fun, but I want to be reminding them, “Yeah, two
million last year, guess I should’ve charged you more.”
I do it a lot. What am I really doing? I’m building up the obligation side
of the ledger. I want them obligated to me. I don’t want to be obligated
to them.
If you accept gifts and courtesies, do it rarely, carefully, and always
with caveat stated. The bigger the gift, the more important it is to have
the conversation. They will start giving you gifts.
If you’re single and they bake for you, not a big deal. If you’re single,
and they like buy you a house equipped with a house and a cook, big
deal. You’ve got to have a conversation about that.
I had a long time client this year give me a car. I don’t need a car. I can
buy a car. I didn’t even really want the car. I was happy with the car I
had, but for a variety of reasons he like needed to give me the car. I
appreciate the gesture, but I declined once. Then, I had a long
conversation stating the caveats, redefining the relationship, exempting
the gift from the relationship, and then I paper trailed the conversation.
We’ll talk about paper trail later. I don’t want it to be the most
expensive free car I ever got.
Always pick up tabs except in a situation where it is understood ahead
of time, otherwise always be the guy who reaches for your wallet. It’s a
real important behavior. It’s symbolic. It says huge things about you,
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and for god’s sake in front of a client, don’t use the calculator on your
watch to figure out the 15.2% tip.
Believe me, I’ve seen people do it. I’ve seen deals blown over the
observation of this one behavior. I’ve seen it happen. Big mistake.
Never take unfair advantage, meaning it’s okay to have them work for
free, but don’t have them work for free five nights in a row. It’s okay to
have them up on a panel, but don’t have them doing a breakout
session for you for free where they’re missing the main session. Don’t
take unfair advantage.
Don’t booze it up in their presence. I’m the last guy who should be
talking about this because for many years I drank. I drank heavily and I
drank with and around clients, not a smart thing to do.
If you drink, and you’ve got to drink, go drink someplace else. The
same advice would’ve been good for Jimmy Swaggert about in your
hometown, which brings us to this. Don’t date or sleep with clients or
clients family members or employees. Turn it down no matter how
generously, freely, liberally it is offered. It’s another reason not to
drink in their presence because you’re more likely not to turn it down. It
can never, ever, ever, ever work out well. If you’ve got to marry it, then
stop the client relationship and then date her or date him.
Be very aware of potential liabilities, this and other kinds. This
business is fraught with risks, and most people don’t give it any
thought. You’re dispensing advice. People are interpreting it. They
hear kind of what they want to hear. They hear pieces of it, etc, and
they are following it. Then, if they get adverse results, regardless of
how much of it was actually due to their own pilot error, there is an
enormous temptation to attempt holding you responsible.
This business is fraught with liability. How do you protect yourself?
One solo activity, who do you deal with? You deal with people. In my
case, as soon as they want their lawyer to look at the contract, I don’t
want them. That’s enough for me.
What does it tell me? There’s a person of influence in their life who
only increases his power and authority and control by getting them to
sue people. I’ll opt out, thank you very much.
I just went through it with our big corporate client. Five changes to the
contract. The lawyers insist on it. I said, “No, let’s just not do it.” “Well,
we got to do something to appease them.” We wind up changing one
sentence which I rewrite, and I get it the way they want. I say, “Now,
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we’ve got to have an understanding. None of this in the future. I don’t
want to be hear about your attorneys.”
Look, the seminar business, and hardly anybody talks about it by the
way, but the seminar business for example is rife with alienation of
affection lawsuits. Everybody gets them. There’s a couple that get
them a lot, but a person comes to the three day workshop. Mary
comes to the workshop. Mary gets all charged up about take charge of
your life, get rid of the toxic people in your life. This is the advice we
give her. It turns out the most toxic person in her life is her husband.
Mary goes home and gets rid of him. Husband sues seminar presenter
for alienation of affection.
He’s got a case. It happens all the time. So, selectivity, control,
eliminating problems as soon as you see them, contracts, good
disclaimer language. Do not use your clients as your coach consultant
or therapist.
Tremendous temptation to tell them your problems right after they’ve
told you their problems. You’re not supposed to be confiding in them.
Whatever you confide in them should be purposefully and strategically
confided to them to increase your control over them, not to unburden
yourself.
If you need therapy, go hire one, preferably somewhere invisible to
your constituency, but don’t be using a client’s shoulder to tell your
stories to.
They’ve got to want to be like you. You may think to yourself, “Well,
why do they want to be like me especially if they make more money
than I do.” They want to be like you because of the behavior they see,
the confidence they see, the discipline they see, the control they see,
the attitudinal stuff they see.
They don’t want to be like you if you’re weak and crying and
complaining and moaning and your relationship is screwed up too, and
your employees are all idiots, and your customers are all morons too. I
don’t want to be like you then.
You can’t be sharing that with them. Do not complain in ways that
undermine their desire to be like you, and if you cross the line, do it
sparingly and know you’ve changed the relationship.
Here’s another big mistake, believing that continued interest and
patronage can be earned through either the core value of your
competencies and services and so forth delivered, or retained as
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gratitude for contributions you made to them in the past, or based on
the loyalty of friendship.
More about keeping clients
Let’s work down the list. The first one we’ve talked about a lot. You’re
going to keep them for about a year based on the core value of
whatever it is you deliver, if that’s all you did, no frills, no fluff, no
entertainment, no psychological manipulation, no control, no none of
that, and you just deliver core values and services. At best, you’re
going to keep them with you for a year.
It won’t matter how well they’ve done or are doing. Too much of the
other glue will be absent. They’ll leave you no matter what.
The second one is gratitude for contributions past. We all think that
that’s going to happen. Over the last five years, think of all the money I
made for this person, or man when he called up and had that
emergency, I jumped on the plane, and I rushed in there, and cleaned
up that mess.
Their memories are remarkably short, and they tend to rewrite history
in order to reduce the value and amount of the contribution you made.
The story I like to tell about it is years ago when I had General
Cassette Manufacturing company, we had a speaker client and we
produced all his stuff. His named was Keith DeGreen.
Keith has become very successful, but at the time Keith was struggling
and sometimes couldn’t pay his bills and would get a gig at the last
minute, and take it and call up and need 3,000 cassette albums in
Tupelo tomorrow, and I haven’t paid you for the 1,000 that I already
got, but if you’ll just give me another cheeseburger, I’ll pay you for the
cheeseburger on Tuesday, whatever Wimpy said.
So, we put on a night shift even though we couldn’t afford to pay them,
and put on a night shift to get them things done and get them in Tupelo
because without them, Keith is going to work and not have any product
to sell and not making any money.
We carried him, and we bent over backwards for him, and we helped
him and we created opportunities for him for about a year and a half.
One day, Keith calls up and wants to take us to lunch.
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So, Pete Lillo and I are in a car, and he’s taking us to lunch. We think
he’s taking us to lunch to be a nice guy. How nice, Keith’s in town. He’s
taking us to lunch.
Keith’s taking us to lunch to break the news to us he’s moving all the
business to another vendor. Why? He’s going to save a penny a
cassette, a penny a cassette. In a six tape album, that’s six cents. He
said, “Of course, you understand because biz is biz.” I never forgot it.
I’m not mad about it. He’s right. Biz is biz. That’s what the relationship
is. Now, the decision is still stupid, but that’s neither here nor there. It is
reality.
The idea that you’re going to keep them based on contributions past,
no. We have a saying at the race track. What have you done for me
lately? The nature of race horses is they slow down as they age, just
like we do. A horse that made you $30,000 last year, this year he’s
struggling to finish in the money at all. It doesn’t matter he’s made
$30,000 last year. It doesn’t matter he made $300,000 lifetime.
What did you do this week? He’s eating this week. He ain’t eating in
our memories. He’s eating this week. What have you done for me
lately? It’s how everyone is.
You’ll keep them based on the loyalty of friendship. No, it will work
exactly the opposite way as we just discussed. If it turns into
friendship, the only way you’ll keep them is if you’re going to give them
everything for free. That’s the only way to keep them, and that’s not a
game you want to be in.
We’ll stay on retention for a second. Go to page 47. Three most
important truths about retention. Clients continue based more on their
feelings than their realities including accomplishments and results.
Feelings
(Not Realities)
Govern
Retention
Funny for a guy that’s not a touchy feely guy, but I’ll break the news to
you. We’re in a feelings business. It’s all about how they feel about us,
how they feel about themselves, how they feel about the experience
that they are having. It’s not really about the results.
Clients will divorce themselves based on their feelings even in spite of
accomplishment and results. Make the guy a million dollars, but he
ain’t having fun at the meetings, he’s gone. Make the guy a million
dollars, but he didn’t get his moment in the spotlight this month, and
feels shorted and slighted, and didn’t get recognition, he’s gone.
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It is the careful assessment, control, and manipulation of their feelings
that is essential to retention and ascension. It’s all about how they feel,
not what’s actually happening, what has happened, not what the
results are.
There’s got to be results, but the difference between adequate results
and superior results do not translate into a difference in retention.
That’s not where you get it. You get it from how they feel. That’s where
you get it.
Additional mistakes, delivering too much content, so we’re going to try
to give them more value. That’s how we’ll retain them. They’re
dropping out. Add four more CDs a month. Let’s do six calls instead of
four calls. Let’s do eight hour meetings instead of four hour meetings.
Let’s do three extra meetings. Let’s let them call me in the middle of
the night on the cell phone. Let’s let them email me. Let’s add, let’s
add, let’s add.
It won’t matter. Enough is enough. You may have too little, but at some
point, piling on more value won’t affect retention. It won’t do it, and in
fact, too much content - the number one reason why people drop out of
any Glazer Kennedy program. Guess what? Too much stuff.
Translation, too much value, give us less value, then we’ll stay. Well, it
sounds stupid when you say it that way. Doesn’t it? Well, it is stupid,
but nevertheless it’s reality. When you give them too much stuff for
them, and they can’t process it, and they can’t handle it, and it’s too
much information, then they start to feel inadequate.
When people have negative feelings, what do they do? They try and
get away from whatever is causing the negative feelings. They don’t try
to correct their own behavior by the way. Forget that. They try to get
away from whatever is causing the negative feelings.
If you’re causing negative feelings, they’re going to get away from you.
If you’re causing positive feelings, then they’re going to want to be
around you all they can. You can’t give them too much content.
Mistake, delivering overly sophisticated or complex content. You can’t
ask them to think a lot. They don’t like it. Diagram with five things on it,
okay, diagram with fifteen things on it, too much. I just don’t want it. It’s
too much.
If you’re too complex, if you’re too sophisticated, especially too soon or
with the wrong people who haven’t moved up through an ascension
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ladder, you’ll drive them away. You’ll lose them for all the same
reasons.
They’re embarrassed. They don’t understand what they’re hearing or
reading, but they won’t ask. So, now they’re not getting value. They
feel like the slow student in the room, etc.
Teaching too much, period, the worst thing you can do in a coaching
environment is fall in love with the sound of your own voice. It’s not
why they’re there. They may join because of you, but that’s not what’s
going to keep them there.
They can only take so much, even in a seminar environment. I tend to
crank it up. You guys pay a lot of money to be here, so I think, let’s
work them to death, but you’re not going to be happy if I work you to
death.
Ten years ago, I would’ve gone until midnight tonight, but now I know. I
could go until midnight. You’ll be less happy, even if you’ve got another
whole big notebook and we went to midnight, most of you would be
less happy, not more happy, even though you can sleep when you go
home for free, you’ll be less happy.
You can only take so much, and then it’s too much. Then, everybody’s
unhappy. So, teaching too much, period turns into boredom, drudgery.
People have to have fun especially in the coaching environment. They
have to have fun.
One way versus cafeteria, you lose a lot of people in coaching, we
used to lose them in practice management, if you have one way for
them to do something. Here’s my successful way. You’re going to do it
my way. They’re happier if you give them a cafeteria. So, they can
pick and choose stuff. That’s not the most effective thing usually you
can do for them. Usually, the most effective thing we can do is give
them an absolute model. Conform to this model, boom you get these
results. That’s not what they want. They’re not going to be happy about
that, and to be fair, different people different things.
It’s like that office tour thing – different offices, different things. It’s got
to know be tweaked a little bit office by office by office. Some offices it
ought to be the front desk person do the tour because she’s good and
bubbly and personable and doesn’t mind learning the script, and will do
a good job with it. At other offices, the worst person in the world do the
office is Barbara at the front desk. Barbara does a pretty good job at
the front desk, but Barbara don’t like giving tours. She’s not going to
like giving tours. You can’t dogmatically say, “Tours should be given by
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main front desk person.” That’s how we do it, that’s how everybody
else does it.
Imposing your values on others, we kind of talked about that some. It’s
about their perceived value, not yours. This is actually a very useful
list. It’s kind of a dumb list, but it’s a very useful list. It’s worth flying
across the country for.
Here’s the things that make them happy. (1) Getting lots of stuff, they
like stuff. They may never look at it. They may never use it. They like
stuff. My coaching group members, when we had the VIP meetings in
the house, do you know what they liked best? The liked my trash. Oh
god, they loved the trash.
Once I figured it out, I didn’t take the trash out before the meetings.
Normally, you clean up. I made a bigger mess. God, they loved getting
in my trash. What can we find in Dan’s trash? Can I get a copy of what
you just found in the trash? Can I get a copy of what you just found in
the trash? They love what was in my trash. I filled the trash up for
them.
They love stuff. Platinum meetings, everybody brings stuff. Everybody
hands out stuff. Everybody goes home with stuff. They love stuff. Give
them a lot of stuff. They love it.
(2) They like taking home stuff. They feel like they went out, they killed
something, they brought it back. They don’t like to go home empty
handed. They come home from a meeting. Somebody says, “Where
were you?” “I was at the meeting.” “What did you get?”
“Where’d you go?” “I was at a meeting.” “What’d you get?” “I got all this
stuff. Look at all this stuff.” Great, they’re happy.
(3) They like getting stuff in packages. Huge mistake, I just dealt with a
client again, just about did themselves in switching to electronic
delivery of all of their content, big mistake. You save a lot of money by
sending that newsletter out electronically or let you go download it in a
PDF file, no good.
Package, Christmas morning, rip it open, what’s there? Spread it out.
Poke at it. Look at it, much better. They like getting stuff in packages.
They like surprises. Extra book they didn’t expect, article with a
handwritten note jotted on top of it, they didn’t expect. A postcard
when you go on a trip. They like getting surprises.
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(4) They like new and interesting things to do, not necessarily the most
productive things to do, and even if they haven’t implemented the 47
things you already gave them, they need a 48th.
You can’t keep drilling on the 47th. They won’t be happy. That might be
the most effective thing you can do. It might be the most productive
thing you can do, but nothing’s productive if you lose them. You can’t
help them if they’re not there.
If you’ve got 47 good things for them to do, and they’ve only gotten to
number twelve, you still have to give them a 48. You still have to give
them a 49th. You still have to give them a 50th. They’ve got to have
something new. They want what’s new.
They don’t want they already got. They don’t want what you’ve already
showed them. They don’t want what’s old even if the best thing
everybody could do is spend time drilling it. They want what’s new, and
if you don’t give it to them, they’re going to hop to another dog who’s
waving the next new flavor.
I got something new over here. They’ve got to have something new.
We figured it out. I had a multi-level company for a while that I inherited
because they couldn’t pay – it’s a long story. I had been in Amway, so I
already learned the message from Amway. You’ve got to have a new
product every month, otherwise, you don’t keep anybody interested.
How many products do you need? When, I left Amway, we had 4,000some odd products. Our multi-level company, we had more products
than we had distributors, but we had to have a new product all the time
– new product, new product. How about let’s sell the product we’ve got
now? No, new product.
The publishing industry, our publisher, they’ve got to have fifty new
books every quarter. How about selling the ones you’ve got? They’re
only a year old. We’ve only sold 40,000 copies of them. There’s twelve
million people. Couldn’t we sell some more of those? No, new title,
new title.
Now, those are smart people running big companies. The behavior
doesn’t matter. You’ve got have something new.
(5) Toys, they love toys. You’ve got to give them toys. Things, quizzes,
questionnaires, little pieces of software, squeezy balls, toys. They like
toys. They like them a lot.
(6) Being sent on goose chases and treasure hunts, activity now
masquerades as accomplishment. Here’s five websites, go home and
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look at these websites. Oh great. Oh look at the websites, the guy did
something.
Activity, masquerading, the love going on goose chases. Don’t
download everything and give it to them. Make them go get it. Make
them call over here to get stuff sent to them. They like that a lot.
Here’s three places to call up and get them to send you their
catalogues and their stuff because now they get three packages. Oh
boy, I got three more packages.
Activity that feels like accomplishment, they want accomplishment, but
most don’t want to do everything necessary to have a lot of
accomplishment. A little bit of accomplishment is usually enough to
satisfy most people, but they want to feel like a lot of accomplishment.
You’ve got to design activity that feels like accomplishment. Getting a
USP wrote, a whole session on getting a unique selling proposition,
that feels like accomplishment. Well, it isn’t unless you do something
with the unique selling proposition, but it feels like accomplishment
because you wrote one and you got one.
(7) Good food, especially desserts, the cookies are real important, very
important. At coaching meetings, cookies, brownies and desserts, all
the other food could suck by the way, as long as the desserts are okay.
As long as the desserts are good, they’ll be happy. If you don’t have
any desserts for them, they’ll be unhappy.
(8) Then, the whole thing is all about positive feelings. Do they feel
better about themselves, and do they feel good about the experience,
and do they feel good about having been there, been involved, for
whatever period of time it was? If they do, you’ve got them.
This is the stuff that makes people happy. Now, it ain’t a real
sophisticated list. It’s a list nonetheless. The next list is almost as
useful.
What are positive feelings? Here’s some examples. Ego stroking, gold
stars, everybody likes gold stars. Here’s to understand what
everybody’s still doing. At least males are emotionally arrested
development, about twelve or thirteen, somewhere around there. It
doesn’t matter now. They’re CEO of a multi-million dollar company.
The inner child is alive and well. So, this is about they colored. They
bring it to you. They want you to stick it up on the refrigerator with
magnet and oh and ah over it. Big disappointment if you don’t stick it
up on the refrigerator and oh and ah over it. A lot of value if you do
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stick it up on the refrigerator and oh and ah over it. This is more
important to different people, but I’ll give you a great example.
Dr. Neilsen’s been around with me for either 22 or 27 years. I forget
which. He knows everything I know, and he doesn’t need anything
more to do anyway. He already has every chiropractic patient in
whatever dink town he’s in. He can’t get anymore. He doesn’t want
anymore. He needs to read next month’s No BS Marketing Letter like I
need hemorrhoids.
There’s no reason for him to continue to give us money. There’s no
sane reason. There’s no logical reason. There’s none whatsoever, but
he loves seeing his stuff in the newsletter. He just loves it.
I’m sure he just sits and glows in the dark when he sees it. That’s how
important it is to him, and I always get notes and stuff about how
excited he was to see it in the newsletter.
Well, he’s got good stuff, so it’s not particularly painful to make a real
point of showing him his own stuff three or four times a year to keep
him for 27 years. It’s kind of a small price to pay, but you’ve got to do it
with him.
You’ve got to create opportunities to show off, to teach from what they
bring you. Magazine articles, a lot of people are really good about
sending me stuff I wouldn’t see otherwise. It’s from the Plumber’s
Journal of Australia. I don’t read that.
A lot of people will send me stuff from USA Today. I read that. I would
probably see that, but it don’t make a difference. It’s not about, “Did I
get it from eighteen people?” It’s not about, did I see it anyway. It’s
about, they sent it to me.
If I use it in a newsletter, I list everybody who sent it to me, not just
one. I take time to send notes back a lot of times. Sometimes, I’ll just
scribble it on the thing. Thanks!
What I try never to do, what’s the worst thing in the world you can do to
somebody who is telling you a joke? That they’ve taken a bunch of
time and trouble to memorize after they read it in Maxim this month.
Jump in with the punchline.
Now, I happen to know 10,000 jokes, so it’s hard for me not to do it,
but I try not to. They need me to laugh at their joke. That’s a gold star.
They came with the thing, not to put it up on the refrigerator, not good.
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Leader and peer support, a place where they are unconditionally
accepted, very important. Fraternity, people like being an insider with a
bunch of outsiders. They like having what they’re in be some sort of –
Yanik’s terminology, a good one, secret society, a status symbol,
knowing things other people don’t know, having a sense that they are
superior to their peers and the people around them, purely because
they have you. They’re in your group.
Cavett’s old line, everybody’s walking around with an umbilical cord in
one hand, looking for a new place to plug it in. They’re looking for a
new womb to crawl into.
What does that really mean for most people? It means a place that’s
secure, and a place of optimism, of hope, of things are going to be
okay, things are going to be good, things will be better. Even if you
have to talk about things being bad, you’ve got to punch line on about
here’s how they’re going to turn around and be good.
Futurism anticipation, something new is going to happen. Something
exciting is going to happen.
Last thing, and then we break. Go back to page 46, important page. It’s
the list you want to make when you go home. This is your key list of
facts. Facts about you that you wish to embed in their heads, which
means you’ve got to make sure you talk about it all the time, you’ve got
to write about it all the time, you stay congruent with them all the time.
It is in a sense an extension of the reputation that you have
constructed. You need your little fact list. What are the facts about
Mike that he wants everybody to get, and to have permanently
embedded in their head?
Decide
What You
Want Them
To Know
About You.
I have facts in quote marks by the way for a reason. There’s facts, and
then there’s “facts.” These are facts because I say so. In some cases,
they weren’t facts when I started saying so. They’re facts now, but
they’re the facts I want people to know.
I want people to know, and your list ought to be different, but I want
people to know I’m in high demand. I’m turning down all kind of stuff.
There’s a waiting list. You’re like at the end of the list. If you figure out
how to jump the line, God bless you.
I want you to know, I want everybody to know that, everybody –
prospects, new people, public – I want everbody to know, which means
I have to work at having them know it.
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I want them to know I’m difficult to do business with. That’s real
important to me because by most people’s standards, I am difficult to
do business with, and I want the luxury of being difficult to do business
with. I like being difficult to do business with.
I want them to know it. Therefore, when they do business with me, and
they judge me difficult, can’t say they weren’t warned. They already
knew. They already got themselves over that by the time they’re there
to do business with me. I want them to know that I’m extremely
intolerant of having my time wasted. Why do I want them to know that?
So, they won’t waste my time. I want them to be really, really, really
respectful of my time.
I want them to now that I will terminate a client. I want them to know
that I’m not above firing somebody for bad behavior, and that I can be
arbitrary about it.
I want them to know that I’m the highest priced guy there is. Why do I
want them to know that? To reduce the sticker shock when I quote the
fee. It’s still there, by the way, but it’s not as bad, and if it’s really an
issue, if they’re prepared to spend a lot of money, might as well get
that out early so they can go someplace else. Why do I want to talk to
them if they’re not prepared to spend a lot of money? I want them to
know I’m the highest priced guy. Of course, I want them to know that
people are making enormous sums of money as a result of hanging
around me.
Those are my facts. You may argue if you wish about to what degree
they are facts, but that’s my facts list. You too need a facts list, and
now that facts list you are consciously deliberately strategically
reinforcing at every opportunity – everything you write, every meeting,
every phone conversation, every coaching thing, every consulting day,
everytime you meet with a client.
It’s almost like at the end of this time together, how many of those facts
did I reinforce at least once? Check, check, check, check, check, I
don’t do that consciously anymore. I don’t have to.
You could start doing it consciously, checklist, conversation. Okay,
how many of these things did I manage to work into the conversation?
I took Latin in high school, which there’s not much that you can do that
would be more useless than taking Latin in high school, but I took Latin
in high school because I thought I was going to be a veterinarian, and
at that time you needed Latin to get in veterinary medicine school at
Ohio State. That’s why I took it.
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About the only thing I remember from Latin is Quo Vadis. So, I go
through a lot of trouble to work quo vadas into conversations because I
paid a heavy price to get it. I had a hard time passing Latin. I like to
see how many times a year Quo Vadis in somewhere because it’s like
all I got from the whole class.
I make a deliberate sort of intent. I’ve ingrained it. I do it automatically
now just like I just did it. I managed to work into a $10,000 seminar a
discussion of quo vadas. That ain’t easy. You’ve got to work at that.
The same thing here, how many of the points on your facts list could
you work into every conversation, every thing you write, every issue of
every newsletter, every CD, every coaching session, every time they
interact with you so that you’re covering the bases again and again
and again and again.
Why do people know these things about me? I make sure they know
these things about me.
You’re first, go.
Question: Just a quick question about not putting them through the riggers at the
seminar. There are different models for that though. Tony’s model is to put
them up until three o’clock in the morning until they’re exhausted.
Dan:
That used to be ours.
Question: What made you change that?
Dan:
Mostly it depends on what you’re trying to get them to do. That model
is really about controlling their behavior by completely suspending
conscious thought and discretion.
I know how to do it. We did it years ago, and it doesn’t lead to long
term relationships, that I’ll tell you. They sort of almost come out of that
ether about a week afterwards, and in many cases, sort of wonder
what happened to them.
The EST model is that plus tear them apart psychologically, and put
them back together the second half of the seminar. The problem with
that model is sometimes you don’t get them back together.
So, that’s problematic, but there’s different models. There is something
to be said about a certain level of fatigue and exhaustion, but as you
say, the Tony model which really came from places before him is really
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employed when you are looking for short term big sale and not
particularly worried about long term client value. Does that make sense
to you?
Question: Yes, absolutely.
Dan:
I’ll also tell you even if you get good at it, which you would be perfectly
capable of being good at it. You have all the skills. It genuinely is
exhausting on the part of the presenters as well as it is on the troops.
You come out of one of those things, you’re dead for two weeks. It
actually is not a lot of fun.
Question: With regard to the performance you were talking about, when you’re
running a small office trying to keep staff as small as absolutely possible,
I’m wondering if you can talk a little more about what I’m perceiving as the
expectation of good service versus my positioning as far as phone calls,
greeting people, things of that nature.
Dan:
Well, what kind of office are you talking about?
Question:
Dan:
Financial planning, part time assistant.
Presumably, under those circumstances, if you define good service as
immediate access and fast response, you’re not delivering that now.
Are you? You couldn’t be unless you have six clients.
No, so, were their expectations managed to start with if they weren’t
going to get that?
Question:
Dan:
They need to be.
Yes, they need to be. Look, hardly ever is there a severe enough
financial emergency to justify them getting to you. You’re probably
losing their money slowly, so there’s no particular big rush for them to
communicate with you. It’s just trickling down.
The one thing you’ve got to control in your business is the – it used to
be Greenspan has indigestion today, and the interest rate goes up a
quarter, and everybody wants to call and talk to you. That’s got to be
headed off in advance.
I think a lot of that is about how you position yourself to them which if
you don’t want to grow staff, and you don’t want to provide ready
access and service and people for them to talk to and so forth, then it’s
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got to be about you’re the little gnome in the cave who is the genius
with the financial formula, and you only take a select number of clients,
and you don’t have staff, and you’re not going to have staff.
The tradeoff of being able to have you is this. If you want that, then go
down to the local storefront stock brokerage and deal with a bunch of
buffoons. It really is about positioning now. It’s a boutique practice. It’s
an elite practice. It is built for a small number of individuals.
I’ll tell you something interesting about the phones. In my office, and
this goes back now before the relationship with Bill, so this is when we
had product sales and all sorts of other things. We used to answer the
phones live five days a week, normal hours.
My mother was the receptionist and she died, and didn’t have two of
them. I only had one. So, temporarily we were like covering. We went
to three days a week. I think short hours on those days, and people
took turns.
I was a little slow to start looking for a replacement, and running ads.
Then, I’m trying to find out how is it affecting us. Well, other than the
three people who are covering being grumpy, it isn’t affecting us at all.
It isn’t having any impact at all on the business.
So, I’m thinking, “Why do I want a fulltime?” Then, we went to two
days. Then, we went to one day. Now, we’re at no days. The product
stuff is moved. I wouldn’t be doing it if I had product sales still.
For me, we’re at no days. She never answers. Does it make any
difference? No, but again, it is what they expect. So, I do business and
I would be prone to do business with your clients if I were you, I’d do
business entirely by phone appointment. So, somebody has to request
it, prearranged, and in like my case, I’m blocking about a day and a
half of month when all my phone appointments get scheduled in a
clump.
If you guys are Gold Plus members, which I assume everybody is, the
day we do the Gold Plus call, that’s a Dan phone day. I’d had phone
appointments since seven o’clock in the morning all day long. They
may be clients we’re working with. They may be new prospects. They
may be whatever. Vicky clumps them all into one day.
I have like my one day of misery, and then I don’t’ have to talk to
anybody for two weeks. If it’s two weeks away, and they’ve got to have
a phone appointment, they fit into the next available day on which
there’s a phone appointment.
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The way that is if you would have sold to people is the obvious benefit
is no phone tag, no me chasing you, you chasing me, so no frustration
about that, no uncertainty, and you’ve got my undivided attention for
the amount of time that we’ve got blocked for your phone appointment.
You know what the deal is. I know what the deal is. You’re organized.
I’m organized. You’ve got me.
Even people for whom this is very strange, they get it, and they adapt
to it. It’s mainly about explaining it to them to start with. If you have a
client base now where you feel like they’re going to feel like
something’s being taken away from them, then at the same time give
them something new that is not painful to you – the monthly client
teleseminar. Give them some new benefit at the same time you
change the rules and they feel like there’s something being taken away
from them.
My option would be like your option. My other option would be to
attempt to deliver the other kind of service and deliver it badly. I’m not
willing to staff to deliver it well.
Rather than doing that, I’d rather create something I can deliver and
then train them to accept that. Now, they’re getting exactly what they’re
promised, precisely. I’m Southwest.
Question: One of the things we talked about was no free lunch and some different
things like that. I’m using the most incredible free gift ever, of course, as an
IBA, and I use it even in my niche market where I give them three months for
free of our newsletter and some different pieces of that. How do we balance
that out with staying the guru?
Dan:
First of all, it’s product versus manual labor. That’s one thing. Second
of all, it really isn’t free. As you very well know, I believe at this moment
its $19.95. It’s just free because we say it’s free.
There is a little skin in the game, but it’s your if you will your low end
point of entry. Let’s translate it to something that would be a very bad
idea. That would be three free months of attending chapter meetings
without ever joining. It would be come to three coaching meetings and
then make up your mind whether you’re going to join.
The worst thing is a lot of free idea meetings. The advertising industry
revolves around free pitches. So, Burger King like once a quarter
invites all the ad agencies to come in and pitch them, and they have
pitch day, or pitch week.
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All the ad agencies prepare all kinds of advertising for nothing, and
come in there and do dog and pony shows. Half the time, Burger King
stays with the agency they’ve already got and just gives them the best
ideas they see during the pitch week. The other half, they move to one,
but twenty of them did all this work for nothing. As soon as I saw it, it
made no sense to me.
I rearranged things not to do them. There’s a big difference between
sending somebody a free lunch and going to lunch with them for free. If
you want to really go to use that example, I wouldn’t necessarily mind
sending somebody a DVD player with a DVD in it to watch a
presentation on something, and having the local deli deliver a box of
sandwiches so they can sit down and watch a DVD and enjoy lunch,
as long as I’m not going and doing the free lunch with them.
Question: This is a control question. When you have maybe a hundred plus area
exclusive coaching people, how are you projecting control when you don’t
want to physically get them all in room together, but you want to keep
control? I know there’s takeaways.
Dan:
Are you talking about the end user, or are you talking about your
consultants?
Question: The consultants.
Dan:
You’re talking about your consultants. Well, talk to Howard. Rules,
monitoring, group delivery of information training reminding of rules,
you will have to get them all together in a room from time to time. It’s
unavoidable.
If they can be mystery shopped, they should be mystery shopped to
check compliance or non-compliance. You’ve got to be willing to throw
them out, and they’ve got to know it.
You will always have somebody wandering off the reservation. It’s
inevitable. You go, and you get them back. They go do something
they’re not supposed to be doing. You take it away from them. You
slap their hand, and you bring them back.
If you’ve got a hundred consultants using your system, if you’ve got a
hundred franchise owners, if you’ve got a hundred salespeople, a
hundred distributors, whatever terminology you want to use, on any
one given day – first of all, the thing that helps a lot is that on any one
given day, a big number of them are doing nothing.
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They can’t get into too much trouble doing nothing, but of the ones who
are doing something, about a third of them will be trying to reinvent
your business instead of implementing the stuff they’re supposed to be
implementing.
A third of them are going to be so far off the reservation, you won’t
even know what business they’re in, and you’ve got to keep catching
them and rounding them up. If their productivity warrants it, fine. If their
productivity doesn’t, then you’ve got to change the program where
you’ve got to get rid of them.
By the way, with them or with clients, you have unilateral rules. You
truthfully as invisibly as possible enforce them differently on different
people.
Jimmy Johnson when he was on a Peter Lowe events, and other
coaches have told their version of the same story. He said, “If Emmett
Smith is late for or let’s say he falls sleep during a meeting, somebody
gently goes over, wakes Emmett up, gets him a cup of coffee, and if he
really can’t stay awake, we get him a pillow and we help him lay down
on his desk.”
“If the third string lineman who missed six blocks last week falls asleep
in the meeting, I kick the desk over, and trade his ass to the Vikings.”
We do it so we don’t advertise. We try and do it invisibly, but sure is
there a client who has been with me for fifteen, twenty years who pays
a hundred, two hundred thousand dollars a year to be with me? Does
he get a little more slack than the new guy or the guy who only spent
twenty, or the guy who is in a coaching group? Of course, the same
thing is true with franchisees or sales people.
Question: Newsletter, you change up different things. Every year, you’re creating
something new within your groups. How about within your newsletter?
Do you change the entertainment value? What are you looking at?
Dan:
The formula doesn’t change. There’s a formula to it, X number of
words to this. X number of words to that sort of a structure. A checklist
of things you want to hit on every month. Those formulas generally
don’t change, but you try and do a little something not necessarily per
calendar year, but every so often.
You do a special issue on a given topic, or you print an issue on pink
paper, or you send candy with it. You put a DVD in with it this month,
or you print it upside down or sideways. You do some of those kinds of
things.
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The unique thing about a newsletter as opposed to say needing to
make changes in the other deliverables to feel fresh, so the coaching
thing has to change almost meeting to meeting to meeting and
program to program to program and year to year to year a little.
One of the important things about the newsletter is it’s constancy, it’s
consistency. So, you’re balancing that with the need to every so often
surprise them a little.
Question: To avoid an overly complex and sophisticated material we talked
about, should we coach to the lowest common level and have the high
performers who get it be bored, or push the envelope and let the nonperformers struggle and potentially drop out?
Dan:
It depends on what you want to accomplish. If you go all the way down
to the lowest common denominator – first of all, some of the answer
depends on how big the spread is of intelligence, competence and
experience of the people you have in the coaching program.
To use me as an example, and I don’t have them anymore, the Gold
VIP groups versus the Platinum group. The Platinum group, first of all,
they’re all in the same niche. They’re all information marketers. The
VIP groups were butcher, baker, candlestick maker, mix breed of dog.
In a sense, it’s easier when they’re all in one thing. The harder part is if
they don’t participate or if they’re all actually doing exactly the same
thing. They’re all five to fifty million dollar a year guys, mostly in the
middle of that. So, there’s not huge financial disparity.
There’s not huge experience disparity, and usually each year, I make
sure I have one slower, more of a beginner, somebody in there to ask
the dumb questions and be helpful, but I don’t slow it down for him.
He’s got to catch up.
Now, the Gold VIP, I kind of took a pulse of who’s there, and then you
had to bring it down. If you bring it down too far, you really frustrate the
smart ones. The real answer to that is to have a place for them to go.
It sets up your ascension. So, for example, if you look at my transition
to move the VIP groups to Bill was I went from four groups to one VIP
millionaires group where there was an income requirement to be in the
group, and I basically sifted and sorted and took the smartest pencils
out of the four boxes and moved them into one and sent the other
three to go play.
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He since has sifted and sorted and rejuggled them twice, but you’re
right. It’s a constant problem. Sometimes you don’t know it. You
thought they were all, and then you discovered they aren’t. Sometimes,
you’ve got to make one leave.
The way to solve the problem is somebody who is either really behind
the curve or somebody who is way above them, has to literally be
taken aside and say, “Look, this just really isn’t for you, or it’s not really
for you right now.” If you’ve got something else appropriate for them,
great. If you don’t, it’s, “Here’s your fee back. Here’s where you need
to get to next year, or look you really need to wait until we have a really
advanced program.”
Sample documents
Let’s look at some of the sample documents. Some of them are of
minor importance, and some of them are of significant importance, but
let’s start on page 172. If you jump all the way back to 172, you’re
going to find a page that looks like this.
This happens to be my 2007 coaching call schedule, which is in that,
gee it seemed like a good idea to fit it in all one day at the time
category.
What’s kind of important about this is to mention to you is that they
don’t pick. That will drive you nuts. You start to run any kind of a
democracy approach to running coaching groups where they’re getting
to pick slots, pick who goes in what order at your meetings, any of that
kind of stuff. This is all assigned.
When they join a group, or when we renew a group or we’re getting a
group organized for the year, they’re allowed to express their
preferences, and then I ultimately assign them their time slots.
Now, I try and be sensitive to their preferences. I try and be sensitive to
time zones, but I also am very sensitive to my own priorities. So, for
example, on a day like this, I know where my energy lulls are going to
be. I put people there intentionally who I know are going to pick me up,
not be difficult or dull or whatever.
I know a few people who are going to miss their calls two times during
the year, three times a year, four times a year. They’re going adjacent
to a break. I don’t care what time slot they wanted because if they
haven’t called in the first five minutes, odds are they ain’t calling in
fifteen. Guess what? I just doubled my break time.
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I got to put real sharp pencils at the end because I’m like dying at the
end of the day. I’ve got to have people there that those calls are a real
pleasure, and they’re really organized and they’ve got a lot going on.
Just as an example, it affects everything that you do. You’ve got to
take into consideration the things that they want, but ultimately, you
build it to suit you. It doesn’t matter if it’s a call schedule, a meeting, an
agenda, whatever. You build it to suit you.
This goes back a ways. If you flip back to page 131, you’re going to
see a page that looks like this. This was from the old VIP groups, and
again, we gave this to them and let them give first preference, second
preference, third preference. We got all their preferences in, some
consideration to first come first served, but again, ultimately building it
to suit me more than to suit anybody else.
I’ll tell you for example, if you look at page 156, here’s the 2006 list for
day two, there were two days back to back. The second one needed a
lot of help, and was sort of the weak link of the group. I mean no
disrespect. It’s just what was. It was sort of the weak link of the group,
so I had to put her between two people I was really going to enjoy
talking to and weren’t going to make me work too hard, and were going
to come to the table with a lot of good stuff.
If I put three weak links together, I’m irritable by the time I’m dealing
with the third one. It comes through in your voice. You’re more liable
not to deal with them well.
Again, there’s one on here, I guess I won’t point them out, who pretty
much missed his call almost every month, and had done so the
previous year. He got put next to a break, which buys me a bigger
break.
Page 157, here’s for example, a document, part of a fulfillment
document, so this is probably client group. This is an ’06 private client
group fulfillment memo. What do I want to call your attention to here?
Oh, private client group, they get stuff every month, and it’s a mixed
bag of stuff. Sometimes more, sometimes less, there’s some stuff
everybody gets the same. There’s some stuff each person gets just for
them.
That’s something you want to think about. It’s sort of a logistical
nightmare, but it’s not awful especially if you can keep fifteen or twenty
or 34 people kind of over in a corner of your subconscious at all times,
and if you’re reading a magazine or if you’re reading a Wall Street
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Journal, or you’re going through your junk mail, your brain makes the
connection, “Charlie should really see this because this about a spa in
Tupelo. He’ll be really interested in this.”
“Billy Bob should really see this,” and then you need some kind of
catcher system to get all that stuff organized. Mine is pretty simple by
the way, everybody has a drawer. So, that stuff accumulates in their
drawer as the month goes by, and then we stick it all in a big envelope,
and we send it to them. They get a big bag of stuff.
Here is the next one. On 160, here’s a kind of a typical memo to
Platinum. This is from ’06, and this happens to be – well, this happens
to be after there was kind of bad behavior at a meeting. The last shall
be first paragraph is corrective remedy. It’s the three who took turns
last at the last meeting, because people on them, bailed out on them,
so they get to go first. Then, we had a bunch of people who wouldn’t
take a turn when I wanted them to take a turn, so the new rule was if
you pass when you’re called on for a turn, you move all the way to last.
So, that’s like a little corrective discipline.
Now, keep in mind, these are ‘06s group. These are people paying
$20,000 a year to be in the group, but it doesn’t make any difference if
they paid just $20,000 or $2,000 or $200,000, bad behavior is bad
behavior, and they got to have their cookies and their blankie taken
away from them so they behave better tomorrow.
Up at the top, the top paragraph is dealing with next year’s formation,
and I would point out to you that this memo has a June 26th date on it
starting to deal with ’07 groups.
A lot of people wait way too long, if they have any kind of renewal
situation to deal with. They wait way too long to deal with the renewals.
They’re waiting until the last meeting. Well, you’ve got no second
whack at them. You’ve got no peer pressure along the way. The last
meeting is too late. You’ve got to start the process a lot earlier than
that.
Page 162, interesting for one particular reason, this one I don’t know
when it went out, and I don’t know what it’s part of. I don’t know what
the front part of it was, but this is earlier this year than any other prior
year. I’m going to be sending out detailed information about my plans
for ’07 groups.
Then, the next paragraph is the unassigned time is fast disappearing,
etc. Now, that whole paragraph, what that actually provokes is a
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immediate little rush of additional bookings for consulting and
copywriting.
I don’t remember why I actually did it at the moment. I think I had just
gone and bought a $75,000 horse, if I’m not mistaken, but that whole
paragraph of there’s no time left and I really can’t work anymore, etc,
what that really does is provoke a bunch of people now how hurry up
and want you to do stuff.
It’s sort of primitive, but effective reverse psychology. This is a little
control memo, and it’s interesting literally only because of its first line.
This is called negative optioning. It just makes your life easier.
This is unless any of you asked to be left out, I do that a lot where
here’s what I’m going to do. If you don’t want me to do it, or you don’t
want to be a part of it, you’ve got to now come back and tell me,
otherwise, it’s happening. Then, I don’t have to wait for their
responses. I don’t have to worry about who hasn’t responded. I don’t
have to chase answers, and I do it with a lot of stuff.
If somebody sent in a testimonial, and I’m going to use it in the next
issue of the newsletter, I don’t fax them and ask them to fax me back,
and tell me if it’s okay. I fax them and say, “Unless I hear you
screaming some time in the next ten days, I’m using it.”
So, it cuts one whole step out of the communication process in order to
do it that way.
Here’s just another example. This is Platinum ’07, so this is a memo
that went to Platinum members. It shows them what their call dates
are. It shows them their call times.
The call preparation paragraph is 166. Should you want to have notes
or materials in front of me for my call, those materials must be in
Vicky’s hand at the Phoenix office no less than seven business days
before the call date, no exception.
How many people do you think send in last minute shit a day or two
before the call date? Anybody want to guess. No, my people are better
behaved than that because I beat them up all time. Remember, half of
them never send anything ever.
So, you’re only dealing with half of them you could possibly have a
problem with, but a good three or four every single month try and cheat
the system. It’s not the same three or four usually, but somebody is
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always trying to cheat the system. Then, they’ve got to learn they can’t
cheat the system, and they don’t do it again.
Now, you will be tempted to make an exception. The guy gives me a
lot of money, what’s the big deal? It’s only eight pages. Go ahead and
fax it over. No, he has to have the experience of, “Did you get my
stuff?” No, I’ve got everybody else’s stuff here, but I don’t see anything
from you. When did you send it in?
“Yesterday.” Seven business days, I won’t even see that stuff until a
week from Friday when I get in my box, but then it will be too late. Next
month, seven business days. You could read it to me. I’ll sit here for
five minutes while he reads it to me. It’s his time, not mine.
They’ve got to pay a penalty. You can’t let them off the hook. The kid
doesn’t eat his dinner, you tell him, “No food for the rest of the night.”
An hour later, he’s down there, “I’m hungry.” You’ve got to send him to
bed hungry, otherwise he’s not going to eat dinner until he’s sixteen.
So, that’s not good. Same thing with these people.
Question: What I wanted to ask was the idea of a renewal every year versus just
getting their credit card in mastermind groups and just keeping on billing
them so they don’t have to make a decision?
Dan:
It’s actually a more complicated question than you might think. There’s
much to be said for there never being a renewal. Obviously, you don’t
have to go through a renewal process. You don’t have to wait. They
have to opt-out.
I would be more prone to do it with a big coaching program with 75, 80,
a hundred people in the group than I would with a small one, and I’ll tell
you why. Again, this is me personally.
Number one is every year there’s somebody I want to leave, and I
have others I want in. So, I want an opportunity to juggle it. Secondly,
every year I raise the fee. So, the continuity to me is a big trade-off
against leaps in fees. That’s an issue.
There’s no law that says you couldn’t have one one way and one the
other, if you have more than one program. So, one program could be
continuity, and the other program could be renewable fee.
When you do renewable fee, you’ve got to do it early, not late. You
can’t be renewing at the end. There’s pros and cons to both.
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Page 167, I don’t really know, you don’t even need to look at that. Let’s
look at 168, 168 is real interesting because you will find meeting rules
of conduct. So, the whole paragraph on 168 now spells out what the
rules are.
So, how many staff people you can bring. You’ll see this is our Emmett
Smith conversation, so each member can bring up to two staff
members with advanced notice except for LeGrand. He can pretty
much bring as many as he wants. Why? I said so. He’s grandfathered.
He’s old. He’s infirm. He needs a lot of people to help him around. He’s
been with me a long time, so that’s the rule. He can bring as many as
he wants.
No laptops, that’s new this year. Cell phones turned off. Format we’re
going to be using. How you should prepare, full participation, yada,
yada.
Now, if all you do is give them the rules at the beginning of the year,
the whole thing falls apart by the second meeting, so they’ve got to be
reminded, and reminded and reminded, but there’s some language you
can see about meeting rules of conduct.
Let’s look at 171 for a second, just to show you, so here’s the memo
that goes to them giving them their phone slots. Here’s what your
dates are. Here’s the rules. It gives me the right to change the days. It
reminds each member has a time slot locked in for the entire year. It
tells them not to give the phone number out to anybody else because
it’s only used for this. It tells them to start a file and put the memo in it.
You wouldn’t think you’d need to tell them to start a file and put the
memo in it. Would you? Surely everybody knows keep the memos.
No, no, they don’t know that. If you don’t tell them, you haven’t even
gotten a prayer of them keeping them memos. Look at the memo,
throw it out, and then they can’t find the phone number, and then they
can’t find anything. Then, they don’t know what their day is, their time
slots, and then there’s a decision of how much you choose to baby
them, and how much you don’t.
Vicky’s been nice about it. I didn’t baby them at all, then Vicky sends
out reminders, which I probably wouldn’t bother, but it’s a decision to
be made.
Here’s how we handle consulting days. This could be instructive for
some. So, in my program, Platinum One this year, everbody gets a
day. It’s part of the deal. Private client group was the same last year.
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Here’s a very recent memo releasing twelve days in the second
quarter, and offering them to this list of people, and now they can
respond with their preferences. Then, we go back to them and tell
them, “You’ve got this day. You’ve got this day. You’ve got this day.
Here’s your schedule.”
One fax goes to everybody, back comes their preferences. Vicky puts
them all on a list. This guy says he can’t do this day. He’ll take any of
these days. This guy says he can’t do this day. He’ll take any of these
days, and then I sit there and decide. Put them all in order, and we
send another group fax out to everybody that tells everybody when
their day is and where they’re supposed to be.
Then, we’ll release some more dates to another group of them a month
or so down the road. I do the same thing with clients who are on a
waiting list, by the way.
I also used to control phone this way when I traveled. There’d be fifty
people who piled up waiting. They want to talk to me on the phone.
Instead of sending phone appointments, what I used to do is I’d run the
radio call in deal. We used to send them all faxes with all of the names
listed on it, and Dan’s going to be sitting in the Marriott in Tupelo for
three hours before he goes over to speak at the Peter Lowe event.
From one to three, he’s taking calls. Here’s a list of everybody who’s
been waiting to talk to him, have at it. Don’t leave messages because
he’s not going to return any messages. He’s not going to call anybody
back. Whoever gets through, gets through. Whoever doesn’t get
through, doesn’t get through. The next time he’s going to be sitting
somewhere, we’ll send you another fax. That’s the way we used to
handle clients and perspective clients.
I’d sit there with a list, and I’d check them off. Some of them would of
course leave messages, and then a week later be, “How come he
didn’t?” It says right there he wasn’t going to call you back. You either
got through or you didn’t get through.
Now, as goofy as that sounds, it was pretty efficient actually.
Prospective clients, Fortune 1,000 companies, it doesn’t make any
difference. “I’ve been dialing for two hours getting a busy signal. I
finally got you.” Well, hurry up because we’ve only got ten minutes left.
I’ve got to walk out the door here. What do you want to talk about?
That’s the way I used to handle phones when I traveled. Now that I’m
stationary, there’s less of them. I do it by appointments. These are all
like wording and documents and things that you might use to exercise
control over folks.
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There’s many more samples of contracts and marketing documents
and those sorts of things in there, and we’re going to plow through all
of those tomorrow.
Another thing I want to look at now is if you go to section seven, which
is resources. Everybody always asks me what books they ought to
read. Here’s the list. There are no page numbers. Just find your tab
divider number seven, and you’re there.
The books that I think are sort of essential, and if you read them, it
wouldn’t hurt to reread them in the context of what we’re talking about
here in the two days, but certainly Ringer’s book the original, Winning
through Intimidation, not the sort of neutered newer version of it. How
many in here have read that book? Okay, and some of you have read
the new.
I’d go read the old anyway. There’s significant differences between the
old and the new, and a lot of people were turned off by the title. Now in
the context of our conversation, you shouldn’t be turned off by the title
at all.
Really the most useful stuff in the book is the early stuff, how he
behaved when he had no reputation and nobody knew who he was.
How many have read Michael Korda’s book Power? Steven, you’re
showing your age. That book as I said, may be hard to find. I’m not
sure, but I suggest you make an effort.
Michael Korda at one time was probably the most powerful guy in the
publishing business, and was president I believe of Random House at
the time he wrote the book. Simon & Schuster? You probably know
him. What’s he doing now? He had cancer. I don’t know what
happened with all of that, but anyway he wrote the book Power while
he was in charge of Simon & Schuster, he didn’t need an agent to get
published, which was kind of nice.
It’s really a very good book. The sequel to it called Success is not so
good, but Power was a very good book. It might not be easy to find,
but it’s worth trying to find.
Thick Face, Black Heart, how many? Very good, but a bunch of you
don’t have your hands up. I would suggest that book, and if you
haven’t read is Psycho-Cybernetics, read them back to back. Read
Psycho-Cybernetics, and then read Thick Face, Black Heart because
one really picks up where the other one leaves off.
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Green’s book, The Forty-Eight Laws of Power, how many? Oh, not that
many, now we found one hardly anyone’s got. A little heavy lifting, it’s
not like the most fun book to read, but it is well worth reading. I suggest
you get your hands on that, and get into the context of things we’ve
been talking about. You’ll get it, and you’ll like it. I quoted it a number
of times today, and will tomorrow.
Not on this list is Neil Strauss’s book, The Game. How many have read
Neil’s book? Well, the rest of you, it’s a good book to read. It’s a fun
book to read, and if you view it as a sales training book, rather than
what it is written as – for those of you who don’t know Neil, there’s a
whole industry and subculture of how to meet women teachers and
experts and gurus and practitioners, and it’s a whole world unto itself.
You might know, been a member of ours for years, came to a
copywriting of mines years ago, Ross Jeffries who is kind of like the
evil one of the tribe. His thing is speed seduction. This is an adult
group. Actually, I’ll tell you something very funny about Ross Jeffries.
I’m doing this really small copywriting seminar, and I didn’t really
screen anybody who was there. The deal was everybody brings their
stuff, and everybody shows their stuff, and we all workshop it together.
Ross Jeffries is registered, but there’s also one woman in the crowd. I
think we had fifteen people at the seminar. There’s one woman, and
she’s like a little old lady type woman. I forget what she’s doing. I think
she’s doing like selling quilting kits and stuff. She’s brought all her stuff
with her.
Ross’s slogan is, “If you don’t get laid, I don’t get paid.” I don’t really to
go farther than that, but Ross is really oily and deliberately offensive
and profane. It is. It’s speed seduction. It is what it says. No date, no
meal, no nothing. Pick up, sack.
I get to the meeting room, and these people are introducing
themselves, and I’m thinking, “Oh, this is not good. This woman is just
going to be upside down offended.” She’s got a cross on her neck. You
just know this is not going to be pretty.
She had the most fun with him. She was totally into working on his
copy, and he treated her well, and she just had a blast. I’m sure she
never admitted to anybody what she did for two days.
There’s this whole subculture of these people, and Neil Strauss writes
for Rolling Stone. He’s a good writer. Neil sort of went underground
with them for an extended period of time, became one of them, and
then writes this book all about them and how they do what they do. It’s
very well done.
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It is, as Sydney’s original book was, the Mayflower Madam, it is what I
call an unintentional sales training book. It wasn’t written for that
purpose, but if you read it for that purpose, in addition to it being a
good read, unlike Laws where you’ve got to wade, it’s a great sales
training book. It’s fabulous. For the purposes that we’re talking, The
Game is a good book to read.
There’s some Glazer-Kennedy resources listed if you don’t have them.
They’re the natural extensions of some of the things we’re talking
about. There’s a resource, my Jerry Buchanan collection. How many of
you own it? How did you all wind up on one side of the room?
Well, a quick pitch for those of you who don’t. Jerry is deceased for
one thing, but Jerry’s one of the sources I found real early. Jerry was
doing a lot of what I’ve done and what we’ve done with the Inner Circle
business really before anybody. He never really understood how to
turn it into big money, but he had all the mechanics right. So, if you
studied Jerry’s stuff, you immediately will see what I stole. It’s blatantly
obvious. I sort of learned the personality marketing thing. He’s one of
the ones I studied. I learned the Inner Circle. He’s one of the ones I
studied. I learned to do a newsletter that worked and held people’s
interest by studying Jerry.
It’s really regrettable that he didn’t know a few things that would’ve
turned it into big money, but it is an enormously good resource. I forget
the years.
This is what is all of his newsletters for four years, from 1992 to 1996,
which arguably probably was his hey day, although he dates back
earlier than that.
He advertised in the opportunity magazines, some of the business
magazines and the writers’ magazines is where his leads came from,
and he had a thing called Towers Club for writers. His original pitch
sold a nine dollar book, the Writer’s Utopia Formula, How to Make
$500 a Day Writing, and never being published by a publishing house.
Jerry actually started the information business selling a book about
how to get gophers out of your garden, and with classified ads. Then,
he developed from writers, he really was teaching information
marketing before anybody was calling it information marketing.
Then, had a second Inner Circle club about that, and a second
newsletter about that. So, all of his newsletters, what’s in that resource
are all of his newsletters from ’92 to ’96. There’s some notes in front by
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me calling your attention to different things in all of them, and the
significance of them and how you might use them. There’s the original
thing he delivered that sold people into his inner circle, the Writer’s
Utopia Report. There’s his other book about how to start and publish
newsletters, which was like my little guide when I started to write
publish newsletters, and there’s sample of some of his sales letters,
the original sales letter for his first coaching group, and so forth.
In terms of bulk, you could say it’s about yah thick, and it’s been a real
important resource for me. It’s also a classic find that you probably
would never see on your own, but a serious information marketer will
love it, have fun with it, and benefit from having it, and sort of see
where some of these ideas were sourced from, and then how they’ve
matured and developed from their primitive beginnings.
There’s a lot of stuff to be learned by studying Jerry, so I suggest it to
you as a resource. As a corollary, one other book I didn’t mention, but
there’s a book called What a Way to Make a Living, by Lyman Wood.
How many own that puppy? Not many. Find that. Can you get that at
Amazon? Does anybody know? Is it still alive? It is. So, go to Amazon
and get that one. That’s a goodie, and that is really – well, it’s such an
interesting story, you’ve got to go get, but there’s great examples in it,
and it really is about a guy with very primitive tools. These people
predate, no fax, no email, no internet, not teleseminars, none of the
tools we have available today, rounding up a herd, creating ascension,
keeping them involved for years, creating coaching groups, creating
client groups.
They were way ahead of the curve, and Lyman Wood, amongst other
things, created a religion. That’s really a very interesting book, and
those of you that are really into this will like it and find it both interesting
and entertaining and useful as well.
Ben Suarez’s book, Seven Steps to Financial Freedom, which is a
terrible title, but is a book that you ought to have as well because it
really is about the mail order business and in some respects the
information marketing business and the lead generation business, and
all of that.
Those two don’t relate as directly to what we’re talking about here as
does my Buchanan collection, but they sort of connect to it and they
really relate to the information marketing business.
That’s resources. There is an order form there for the Buchanan stuff,
if you don’t have it and want to get it. Give it to me. The other thing
that’s on there most of you probably know about it, but there’s an entire
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box that came out of a one time meeting I did for doing the area
exclusive type coaching programs where they’re getting exclusivity,
and how to structure all of those, and sell those. If you don’t own that,
you may want that as well.
The business you are really in
Let’s go into section four. We’ll work for about another half hour, and
then we’ll wrap up the day with question and answer. Let’s go into
section four and go to our next big success asset. It’s a give credit
where credit is due. It’s a Halbert term.
How many don’t know who Gary is? My Gary Halbert story, well I can
tell you a number of funny stories, but my Gary Halbert story, the first
Gary Halbert seminar I go to, I don’t know the year, but a while ago.
It’s in Key West, Florida. It’s a $7,000 per person seminar and the
room is full. There’s three or four hundred people, and the first thing is
as you probably know getting to Key West is not the most convenient
thing in the world to do for most people.
I said to him, “Would it have killed you to drive up and hold the thing in
Miami where it would be easier for all of us to get to?” Gary said, “It
doesn’t matter. There’s no point making it easy for them. The same
number come whether it’s easy or hard, so I do it where I want to do it.”
Well, big lesson there. Then, we all paid $7,000. He’s there to speak,
and Halbert shows up for the seminar of course fifteen minutes late,
and he’s got on flip flops, shorts, one of them yellow body builder
shirts, the fishnet thing, and a big old baseball cap that says, “Clients
suck,” on it.
He marches out and he does – I’d kill for a transcript of it – he did at
least fifteen, maybe twenty minutes at the start of the seminar on the
522 reasons why he didn’t want a client. That’s not why we’re here,
and don’t bother me anytime during the seminar, and don’t try to hire
me to do anything, and don’t bother me in the restroom – good fifteen
to twenty minutes on why he didn’t want to do any work, why he didn’t
want to be hired, why you couldn’t hire him even if you tried, and not to
bother him, and not to try and hire him.
Then, he went from that into all of the evils of the clients which is one
of the reasons he didn’t want to work is how badly behaved clients
were. Then, he went through ten copywriters don’t get paid, which is
number one, client doesn’t implement, number two, client doesn’t
implement, number three, client doesn’t implement, number four, client
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doesn’t implement, number five, client implements and screws
everything up, number six, client implements and screws everything
up.
So, we went through his whole riff on how evil and stupid and
miserable clients are, and clients suck. If I never have a client again for
the rest of my life for as long as I live, it’s okay with me.
I’m sitting there the whole time and I’m thinking, “Nero Wolfe, the son
of a bitch is doing Nero Wolfe.” It was brilliant. Well, now for the
remainder of the three days, what is everybody trying to do, I mean
everybody, people who didn’t have a project. They’re trying to hire him.
They’re chasing him into the men’s room. They’re chasing him around
at night. They’re waiting by the elevator in the morning for him to
emerge from the elevator, and elbowing each other aside to try and
convince him to let them hire him.
It’s the craziest thing I’ve ever seen, and we had lunch everyday up in
his suite. I said, “For real?” He says, “No, no, I need some clients.” He
said, “I’m hoping to come out of here with ten or twelve. You just saw
me this morning. That’s the best way to get them. Trust me. It’s a lot
easier to get them this way then trying to get them. I’ll get him.”
They badgered him and, “No. I don’t like your idea. That’s the dumbest
idea.” The end of the deal, he’s got 22 or 23 clients just throwing
money at him. It was a really, really, really good object lesson that I
have not forgotten.
Anyway, in one of our conversations, Halbert’s term is, he said, “It’s
real important for you to understand you’re not in the copywriting
business. You can substitute consulting. You can substitute coaching if
you like, but it’s very important for you to understand you’re not in the
copywriting business because copywriters don’t make any money.”
He said, “You’re in the self aggrandizing business. What you happen to
deliver is copy. That’s fine, but you’re in the self aggrandizement
business. You want them buying you, not what you do.”
Then, the second thing he said to me is he says, “In order to do it well,
you need no conscience,” and I would modify it to you need the
conscience of PT Barnum with the egress and the live mermaid and
the dead hippo schlepped around for six weeks while they rounded up
a new live hippo. You don’t know dead hippos can float. If you put
them in salt water, they float. So, they hippo still looks alive. I
understand they’re doing the same thing with James Brown. Oh, come
on, tell me you haven’t thunk it.
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If you really understand everything we’re doing, you’re in the self
aggrandize business. You’re in the business of selling you. The
deliverables are totally secondary to them deciding they want you, and
in the consulting business, if you sort of take a look at the traditional
consulting business it’s all about proposals and action plans and what
we’re going to do for you, and all that stuff.
They make small money. The $50,000 a year average in the coaching
business is because they’re selling the coaching. That’s why. It’s
because they’re selling the coaching, and you don’t want to be selling
the consulting, and in my case, you don’t want to be selling the
copywriting. You want to be selling the self aggrandized you, not the
deliverables.
It was a really good lesson. An example of doing it, I call it the fine art
of making mountains out of mole hills, I had for years – well, I did a
brochure. I hadn’t done a brochure in a long time, and I did a brochure
in 1996. I didn’t really need one, but to this day, I can’t tell you why I
did.
Then, because I didn’t need it, even though I called it an annual report,
ever year I just updated it with a sticker and stuck a page in the back,
and kept using the same one until I ran out of them. Then, I haven’t
had one since.
One of the cool things I did, and I’ll tell you where I got it from. I got it
from a toilet paper commercial. I don’t remember now the exact
commercial, but somehow they talked about how ten of their rolls of
toilet paper would wrap around the globe 500 times and get you to
Mars or some damn thing. They had some kind of statistical stuff. So, I
had these facts, number of speeches, number of different cities, largest
audience, number of consulting days in a year, number of infomercial
industry days in a year.
When you think about it afterwards, what difference does it make how
many cities I’ve been in? What relevance does this possibly have to
you and the value that you’re going to get by hiring me? What
difference does it make if I’ve been in forty cities, 420 cities or two
cities? It doesn’t make any difference at all, but it’s an interesting
statistic.
It builds the panel of statistics up. It make it sound sort of like, “Gees,
he’s in demand, and he’s running all over the place. Everybody wants
him.” I have my big list of speaking schedule, clients, people I’ve been
with, but it was all largely mountain out of mole hill stuff.
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Truthfully, in ’96, other than the Peter Lowe event, I wasn’t working all
that much. I was working, but I wasn’t working all that much. It looked
like I was working non-stop every minute of the day. I continue to
making much of having one of my books be on Inc Magazine’s list of
one hundred best business books. I don’t mention they redo the list
every year. It sounds like it was like the list of the hundred best
business books. They do it every year. I was on it like once, and I think
I was number 92 or 93. I don’t mention that fact either. I don’t mention
the fact that the list is compiled by a freelance writer who I had an
ongoing relationship. He wrote about me in a bunch of different
magazines, and we had sort of a separate financial arrangement. I
don’t mention that.
Well, you don’t need to – one of my earliest mentors tells a story about
in his school in rural Alabama, the dental hygienist would come to
class and talk to everybody about dental hygiene. She picked him out
and complemented him on how great his teeth looked and what a great
smile and everything, and obviously you’re brushing twice a day and
you’re flossing and you’re doing all the stuff you’re doing.
He piped up and said, “I brush my teeth once a week whether they
need them or not.” She said, “You don’t need to tell all you know.”
Omission is valuable in and of itself. You don’t need to tell all you
know, but I beat that fact up now. It’s a fact. There’s just context
missing, but I’ve beat that up for a long time. Everybody, and if you
look at all my promotional materials, there’s along list of stuff that are
really all molehills made into mountains.
The one that just happened which is a good example of how I would
use it if I wanted to bother to use it is the I’m in this year celebrity
blackbook, which is this big thing they sell. It’s a member of ours,
Jordan MacCauley, which know gives this away a lot.
So, this is like a resource book you use if you’re trying to find a
celebrity’s address and their agent, and their contact information if you
might want to hire them or whatever. It’s this big thick thing, and
everybody and their brother is in there. I’m in this year’s celebrity black
book.
Well, why am I in there? In there because Jordan MacCauley’s a
member of ours, and because I plug his book four or five times, so
everything’s in there is in two point invisible anyway, like the white
pages. So, him sticking me in there was no skin off his nose, but it was
pretty smart on his part to do it. He created currency, so I’ll plug his
book some more.
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Now, if I really wanted to use that, I would beat the crap out of it. I
would magnify it to named to the fifteenth or sixteenth or however
many years he’s been in business annual edition of the celebrity black
book along with John Travolta, this person, that person, and I’d list
fifteen, twenty celebrities and dignitaries and I’d make it sound like it
was Who’s Who of America in the way that I used it. It’s a mole hill
turned into a mountain.
Use everything you’ve got. Use every part of the pig. Don’t overlook
anything, and as you get better stuff, you get drop off some of the
lesser stuff.
What did you get? Direct Marketer of Tuscon – Arizona Marketer of the
Year. If you aren’t using that, that’s a big deal. Three of them took
turns, I get it, but the truth is you got it because they felt guilty after
twelve years or something and you spent a lot of money, but still, it’s
applauded.
You don’t have to say what year, and you don’t have to say that the
direct marketing chapter only had eight people. You don’t have to say
any of that. You just embellish what you can embellish.
So, self aggrandizement, one of the techniques is making mountains
out of molehills.
The
“Surrounded
By”
Strategy
Here’s some other be somebody strategies. Peter brilliantly used what
I call the with strategy, or the surrounded by strategy. Again, I mean no
disrespect, and I don’t think he would contradict me, but Peter has
never been and although he has improved, he has never going to be a
really great speaker.
The likelihood of Peter getting on a giant stage in front of giant
audiences, unless he owns the circus, not good, and he knew it. He
knew if that’s what he wanted to do, which is what he wanted to do, he
needed to own the circus.
Then, even if you own the circus, and you pack the tent with 35,000
people, and then the little short red headed Howdy Dowdy looking guy
walks out there and delivers a so-so speech with so-so charisma,
that’s not going to last very long.
Really, his credibility was, I mean he didn’t have much of a story to tell.
He’d been a reasonably successful sales person who decided to be a
sales trainer and started doing sales training seminars by running ads
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in the newspaper, and doing three hour, $35 seminars and selling
some stuff. That’s it. I just gave you the whole story.
It’s not like he was Hewlett Packard’s number one sales person or
made a million dollars a year in selling, no such story. So, he had no
story. You got no credibility, and you’re not necessarily real good.
What’s the strategy here?
If you surround yourself with big people, you rent the aura, you borrow
the aura rather than create the aura. So, Peter brilliantly surrounded
himself with all manner of celebrities and top speakers. All it required
was writing a check, which a lot of everything in life, all it requires is
writing a check to get in or get out or to create.
His ascendancy and the achievement of is particular goals began by
hooking himself to Zig. Then, by hooking himself to celebrities, and the
big breakthrough in his case was Ronald Reagan. A whole lot of
peopled didn’t want to do those rallies until Reagan did those rallies.
Once Reagan did those rallies, then it was like okay for everybody to
do those rallies. In fact, then, a whole bunch of people wanted to do
those rallies and were banging on the door to get them. Peter used the
with strategy, who am I with? Who I am with defines who I am.
That’s a very powerful and useful strategy that can be applied many
different ways. If you think who I’m with is who I am, who you interview,
who you co-author a book with, who you hire to appear with you on an
event, or at your house party, etc, who you’re with defines who are.
Peter used this strategy brilliantly.
Put Yourself
In The
Center Of
The Action
Somers White, his strategy for filling his book of consulting business is
I think one of the interesting I have ever seen because Somers really
does not like to market or promote himself, but he likes to be busy and
he likes to do a lot of consulting work.
He does a fair amount of it with speakers, so Somers makes himself a
center of relationships between all these other speakers. What Somers
has done now for fifteen years is the night before the National
Speakers Association convention, he used to do it in the same hotel.
They won’t let him do it there anymore.
Actually, what they took away makes it work better ironically. He holds
a big formal dinner now in another hotel close to, in walking distance if
possible to the convention hotel.
It’s by invitation only. There will probably be 2,000 or 2,500 people at
the convention, and there’s probably ten percent of that. There’s 250 to
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300 people at Somers’ dinner. Has anybody been? You have. You
have. You have. You were there last year. Weren’t you? How’d you get
in?
So, Somers throws this dinner, and he makes a big deal out of getting
an invitation and getting to come. He sort of strategically picks people
that he thinks he can hook together one way or another, thereby
creating obligation from both to him because he’s the one that put
them together. He strategically picks people who are going to look him
good about what they say about him.
He strategically picks people that he wants to get as clients, but will
never overtly suggest to them that they should be clients. It’s all by
invitation.
This is a formal dinner, so ladies gowns, gentlemen suits are okay, but
tuxedos are suggested. Now, the first thing that happens is this the
night before the industry convention. Coming out of the elevators and
marching through the lobby of the hotel as everybody else is checking
in or arriving or hanging out in the lobby and greeting their friends is
this army of dressed to the nines members of the association.
Where are they going? How come I’m not going? What is this? They’re
going to Somers White’s dinner. Then, by the way, about four hours
later, they all march back in of course, while everybody else is hanging
out in the cocktail lounge, and arriving late and checking in. In comes
250 people in a swarm in tuxedos and long gowns, all yammering
about the dinner that they were just at, that you didn’t get to go, and
you didn’t get an invitation to.
So, now everybody’s, “What went on?” They want to know what went
on and the thing they weren’t a part of it. They’re all talking about, and
they all want to get an invitation for next year. “You get me an
invitation.”
I’m sure everybody who goes gets the, “Can you get me in? Can you
get me in?” You really have sort of superceded the association’s entire
convention with this event.
Then, at the dinner, he force seats everybody, so you’re seated where
he puts you. He divides couple so you don’t get to sit together, which
as one guy said to me, “I’ve been trying not to sit next to her for twenty
years. It’s the greatest thing.”
He divides the couples. They don’t get to sit next to each other, and he
has very meticulously – god knows how much time he puts on this, but
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he has put you next to somebody, across from somebody who you are
going to connect with. There’s some reason for you to be there that in
conversation will surface, and you’re going to be able to do business
with each other, or you’re going to want to endorse his book.
He’s really creating without ever calling this it, sort of a networking joint
venture kind of opportunity. Then, he goes around with a microphone
prior to the first course, and in between courses, and stands people up.
It appears to people almost at random, but it isn’t. He stands people up
and he interviews them real quick, two or three questions. He’s talked
to ever single one of these people. He’s figured out what he’s going to
ask them. He’s almost fed them what he wants them to say, and he is
standing up everybody giving them their little moment in the sun, and
having them talk in a way that makes him in part sound like – of
course, everybody’s gracious.
Why wouldn’t you be gracious? You’re like obligated to be gracious.
Without a lot of prompting, everybody gives their answer, but also says
something nice about Somers.
It’s about probably ten percent of the time, he’s like a giant infomercial
for Somers White, that nobody really takes it as that. Then halfway
through the dinner, there are numbers under the plates and everybody
flock to the. The women stay put and the guys move. So, now all of
the guys got to get up and move and it reshuffles where everybody is
seated and everybody sits back down.
Now you meet four new people, which the second thing was done
strategically and deliberately just the like the first group. So now,
everybody has connected with eight other people during the night and
you had an opportunity to talk to each other plus you stood everybody
up and kind of showcase to the are and what they do and what they're
all about. So at the end, now everybody is trying to find. This guys
trying to get over here to talk to this one. This one's getting over here
and talking to this one and so forth.
Then at the end, then they all march back to the hotel and create this
giant to-do when they all are getting out of cabs and walking in.
They're all dressed to the nine's and everybody sees it and everybody
wants to be a part.
He books his whole year of business this way. This is it. By the way,
never a pitch. There is never a strong take away but there is never a
big pitch either. It’s very clear, obviously, by the end of the evening
that he does consulting. He does private consulting. He accepts
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clients for long term, private coaching relationships and he speaks.
For this person, he has done this. For this person, he's done that. For
this person, he's done this. It is very smoothly, elegantly done. It's the
whole marketing. Two things happen, a bunch of immediate business
comes out of it. People now come to him or call him up. I was at the
dinner, take me. I heard what you did for this person. I heard what
you did for -- take me.
The second thing that happens is everybody refers to him because he
has obligated them. Now I would refer to him any way under
circumstances because he does a great job and I have sent clients to
him. I will tell you I am more prone to refer to him then I would be
without the dinner. I didn't even go over here but that kind of makes
me think more during the years. I am almost looking for an opportunity
to refer somebody to him to sort of discharge this obligation. There is
really no other way to discharge the obligation. So I don't know what
the number is. I can tell you in my case, I have probably sent him
three or four good clients a year. Without the dinner, I might send him
one. If that's the multiple across the board, he's got all the clients he
can handle for a decade. He does no other marketing. I don't think he
has a brochure. He sends out a little packet with testimonial letters
and stuff. Certainly, marketing is not very sophisticated. He does
nothing else to get business but this.
He writes a big check for this. I mean this big hotel dinner and there is
champagne on the table. There is five courses and 300 people. I
mean, you have written a sizeable check. It is the only check he ever
has to write all year long. By putting people together, he obligates both
sides of that equation. Everything that turns out well, of course, we all
feel. Gee, he connected me with this guy. Gee, he connected me with
this guy. I got to connect him with somebody. I mean the message is
explicit. It's never expressed. It's there. I am connecting you with
people, you should be connected me with people. He puts himself in
the center of all these people who now have the ability and the
obligation to connect him with people.
It's really a spectacular strategy that I have rarely seen replicated.
Certainly, it is replicable by anybody in a nitch. It's replicable in a
community and really who gets invited to a big special VIP, meet
important people kind of dinner and you're going to go.
By they way, the formal thing is very smart. Let me tell you why the
formal thing is very smart. The women all like to dress up in formal
gowns and get to wear them somewhere. So their like pushing let's
go, let's go, let's go, let's go. On two occasions, I have gone more
cause Carla wanted to go then I mean I would have gotten out of it.
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Quite frankly, I don't think she want to go if it wasn't for the fact that
everybody was dressing up in formal gowns. So it's a very smart thing
on his part. Also, all guys look better in tuxes. So I mean an ugly guy
looks better in a tux. So you automatically improve the appearance of a
crowd just by putting them in tuxes.
I have watched him for many years and I understood what he was
doing the minute I saw it. I thought it was brilliant and I thought it was
replicable. Mark McCormack, if you don't know the name. Mark built
the first Sports Management Agency. It's called International
Management Group (IMG). Prior to him, athletes had a manager, they
had an agent, they had a lawyer, they had a CPA, they had a money
manager. So he took it all. We are going to put it all under one roof
and we are going to do it for them and essentially we are going to get
all their money.
The breakthrough for Mark was Arnold Palmer. Much like the
breakthrough for Peter was Ronald Regan. The breakthrough was
Palmer. Palmer was the first client Mark had of any name whatsoever.
As soon as you had Palmer in 1968, '69, '70 something like that, now
everybody wanted to be where Arnold Palmer was. As soon as you
could talk about Arnold Palmer, you could get anybody and everybody
to pay attention to you.
Bill and Steve Harrison who publish Radio TV Interview Report, Book
Marketing Up-Date, so forth, I was with the other day. Their two
greatest assets are two clients. Mark Victor Hansen and Robert
Kiyosaki. If you hold up, Mark Victor Hansen or Robert Kiyosaki in front
of a bunch of authors, they are like rabid dogs. They want to be where
those guys are.
So the strategy is who can I put myself with? Who can I get as a
client? Who can I some how connect myself with who already has a
reputation that is magnetic to the constituency that I am trying to
attract? You instantly leap by doing that.
The other two Be Somebody Strategies that are really important to talk
about. Actually require now some skills. One is speak. Many of you
in the room do and so you know the power of it. You get a lot of credit
just because you are able and willing to step to the front of the room
and not embarrass yourself. Most of them are terrified by it. Many of
them have tried it. Didn't do well. Didn't like it. Plus there is the
Benton, Barton, Dursten and Stupid did the ad campaign factor. He's
up there. They put him up there. He is delivering a presentation on
"X". He's an expert. He really knows something.
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I know thousands of speakers and I can tell you none of that is true. In
some cases, it is but it is certainly not required. All that is required is
that you stepped in front of a room, do a presentation but you instantly
get a lot of power because you do. It's also a very efficient way to
promote yourself because you do it to groups instead of to individuals
and you let them surface and you let them come to you.
I would say to you if you're going to be into coaching and a consulting
business, you got to get good at speaking. You can't like not do it and
you can't like do it badly. You got to get good at it. It's not the most
difficult world thing to get good at but you got to get good at it. You got
to have at least one stump speech.
One key speech about your one best thing that you have down pat and
you're really good at delivering. You only need one. You can live off of
one for a long time. I lived off of magnetic marketing for 14 years. You
got to have it. It should be practiced and it should be polished. It
should be perfected and it should be so you can be woke up in the
middle of the night and they give you three words. You can come out
of a dead sleep and start where they gave it to you and roll and get it
right. It's a real important asset.
It almost doesn't matter whether it's a group of 10 or a group of a 100
or a group of 1000, you gain so much power by being up there. That it
is such a valuable asset. That not to develop it doesn't make a great
deal of sense. So you want to work on it, you want to get good at it
and, you want to develop it and you want to own it.
The most important thing to know about that is that it like everything
else you do, it ought to be strategic and purposeful, meaning that the
speech has an objective or a set of objectives. It is important to
understand what those objectives are.
In the context of this
discussion, the objectives are that they're going to cause people to
come to you, chase you down in the halls. Seek you out. Call you
after the fact and beg you to accept them as clients. That's its
purpose.
In some arenas, you may actually be signing. You may be doing a
presentation to directly sign somebody up and do a coaching program
or directly sign them up and do a subscription and that is really
platform selling.
Short of that, you are at least in every environment. You're objective is
to cause them to chase you down and beg you to take them. Now that
means you got to sacrifice some competing objectives. For example,
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your objective can't be to get a standing ovation. That has to be
irrelevant to you.
Your objective can't be to have a whole crowd of people standing
around afterwards talking to you because actually you don't want a big
crowd. You want a small crowd of people who are ready, able and
willing to give you money and the big crowd just gets in the way.
So the person who takes satisfaction and glory and happiness in all
200 of the people that they were just in front of at the Chamber
meeting or where ever they were, all wanting to gather around and tell
him how great they enjoyed the speech. Tell him a story or show him
something, see that's no good. You easily want to drive away a 180 of
them. I mean you want the 20 around you to be ready, able and willing
to give you money. You have to sacrifice in some cases the total
satisfaction of the host who gave you the speaking opportunity. They
may not be totally thrilled with what it is that you do up there. For the
most part, it doesn't matter.
You have to be very purposeful and very strategic about the speech.
Just as you would be about everything else we have talked about
today. That means every word has to move them towards separation
and the ones who are ready, able and willing to give you money to
surface and come up and chase you down and try and give you
money, every word, every story. If you use humor, every piece of
humor. Every example you show.
So, for example, let’s say you're speaking to a group of business
owners none of whom are dentists. Then showing them a dentist
example or talking about a dentist, no matter how instructive that
example may be and how relevant it is to what you teach, you should
not do it. It's a waste. None of them will relate to it because they are
not dentists.
So you just sucked up three minutes or five minutes or eight minutes of
time and space doing something that does not move them further to
where you want them to be. If you have a pet story you like to tell
about your kid or your dog or your boating trip or what ever it is, if it
doesn't advance the movement of the segment of the audience who
can and will give you money, scrap the story. Tell a story that's not
near as good but that serves the strategic purpose of what it is that you
are there to do.
If you want to speak as a hobby, that is one thing. If you want to speak
to drive this business, then the speech has to be built to drive this
business. Every minute of it, every word of it, every item of it.
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Again, most speakers are not that strategic about what they do. They
don't think about who they're trying to attract. Who they're trying to
repel? What they may say that will resonate with the right people.
How to get them to come to them. How overt or unovert to be.
So, they build a speech sort of like what do I want to talk about or what
will the audience like or what will be funny. They go give it and
sometimes people like it but it doesn't lead any where. You need it to
lead some where.
I have a friend who not long ago had his first and only speaking
opportunity to promote his business and it was a very good
opportunity. He went and he spoke about a thousand people there.
He should have come out of there with half a million dollars not
immediately. I am talking about books and tapes in the back of the
room but I am talking about business.
Hardly anything has happened from it. He said I can't understand it. I
was brilliant. I was mesmerizing. I share tremendous information.
They laughed. They cried. They clapped. They all gathered around
me afterwards, yada, yada. I said, did anybody record it, yeah, they
record it. I said, all right. Get the recording transcribed. Send me the
transcript.
Well, the problem is obvious. Ninety minutes the guy never mentioned
what he does. Never. Not once. So how would you know you were
suppose to come hire him. I mean he didn't take it away. He didn't
put it out. He didn't do anything. He gave a great speech and went
home. He is perplexed at the fact that it didn't turn into any money.
You got to like point them in the direction you want them to go.
The last thing on this list will be for some of you be the worse piece of
news you have had all day but here it is anyway. The truth is you got
to write. You will have to get good at that too. Now a lot of my clients
they act as if putting out a newsletter once a month is like giving birth
to triplet elephants.
You would think it is the most horrifying, difficult, agonizing thing they
have ever been asked to do in their life. Let alone four newsletters,
weekly faxes, white paper, special reports, on and on and on and on
and on. You can't find anybody in our world and in most other worlds,
who has built a really significant coaching business or a really
significant consulting business who is not a writer.
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Now I don't mean by that Hemingway. I do mean certain things. It is
necessary. It is the prime means of communication and bonding
between you and your client is the written word. Everything from the
little memos that control their behavior at the meeting to the newsletter,
to the article, to the sales letter, you got to be able to write.
If you pay to have it all done for you and you get it done by somebody
who is any good, they will have all the money. It is really the single
most important, most valuable and most expensive part of all this
business. It is infinitely easier, for example, for me to teach somebody
how to run a coaching meeting than it is to get somebody to sustain
clients over years because they have to be able to write. For
somebody who I know a piece of news you didn't necessarily want to
hear but in the interest of completeness, I give it to you.
I also tell you that it is my profound belief anybody can get good at it. It
is actually easier to get good at it than to get good at speaking cause
there some things that you can do it in private. It doesn't actually
require you to get up here and be vulnerable and emotionally naked. I
mean you can hide with your computer and turn out the product. You
got to be good at it. There are certain things about it that are like
essential.
You have got to be, well I lost the whole thing here I wanted to do but I
wonder where my writing page went. Well, I will just do it the hard
way. You got to be prolific. You got to be able to turn out a lot of stuff.
Now that is more a matter of how much stuff you got to work from that
it is anything else. You got to be able to turn out a lot of stuff. You
have got to be able to write persuasively. You have got to be able to
reinforce your reputation. Your fact list all of the things you want them
to know all the time through your writing.
So it is far from just an exercise of writing. It is almost an exercise of
strategic thinking that then leads to writing. The writing actually is the
short part of the process. Only takes a few hours, for example, on my
end to turn out a newsletter but it takes all month to plan what I am
going to turn it out about, in what order and what I am trying to
accomplish and then to make sure I have covered all the basis. I have
covered my facts. That takes more time.
The writing is not that hard. It is about being persuasive, about being
good at reinforcing what it is that you want people to know about you
and being able to deliver the same fundamental core competencies to
people over a long period of time, hold their interest in them without
having any new core competencies.
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We all only got a handful, two handfuls, three handfuls of things to
teach. Now we got to find ways to tell new stories about them.
Different stories, put them in different context and so there is a lot to
this. It is important that you get good at it. Some of you I know. Some
of you are very good at it already. Some of you are -- not so good but
a lot better than you were a few years ago. Some of you, of course, I
don't know at all.
It is a pretty significant part of success in this field and success in this
business. Having been asked about it many times somewhere in your
notebook, you are going to find. Huh, I don't know how I got myself out
of order but I did. Somewhere in your notebook, there is a pink page
or there should be a pink page that -- I don't know where it is. Isn't this
awful? Is it 105? Good for you. 106. 105. Sure glad I numbered the
pages it would have been a real mess if I had not numbered the pages.
Thank you, 105 and 106.
I have been asked about it many times and so if enough want to do it,
late in the year, I will do a workshop just on that. What I would call
influential writing and will dissect and take a part things and show you
why they are done the way they are. Get you some formulas you can
work off of. Workshop your stuff. Spend time just on this. If enough of
you want to do it, I will be happy to do it and to do the preparatory work
to do it. You will come out of it better organized, more concise of why I
do what I do, the way I do it and how you can emulate in your own
style. You will come out of it with some templates and some formulas.
You will come out of it with some check lists that will be of benefit to
you on an ongoing basis. You will come out of it with your stuff heavily
and thoroughly critique painfully in front of other people.
Improved so that you have a better model of your own stuff to work
from. It honest to God does not matter to me whether we do it or not
so it is really entirely up to you. Not up to me. You won't see me beat
it up. All right. You're up.
Question: I just have a complex question.
Dan:
Doesn't matter if it's complex. As long as it is quick.
Question: You have mentioned a few different times not to do written proposals
but then you also say to have everything in writing. Where does that
line come in where you put it down on paper?
Dan:
Well, first of all. When I say, I mean everything in writing, I mean all of
the control elements. We are never going to work without a contract,
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for example and incredibly a lot of people do. We try never to do
anything without a paper trail. By that I mean, if you and I have a
conversation while you are here or we have a conversation on the
phone, that in way affects the work that I am doing for you.
You are going to get a follow-up fax from me that says while we were
in Reston, you mentioned "x” to me and I said we would do "y". I just
wanted to let you know. I just wanted to verify that is what we are
doing.
That doesn't require a response. I am not asking you to sign off on
anything but I have paper trailed our conversation because you won't
have a memory of what our conversation was a week, a month or year
from now. I at least want to be able to pull out a piece of paper.
My philosophy on proposals is that the very premise of them is wrong.
Some of this is semantic but some of it is beyond semantic. Your
doctor doesn't give you a proposal, he gives you a prescription. He
doesn't propose that you lose 25 pounds and get on this prescription
drug. He says, here go get this drug.
In the same way, behaviorally, philosophically and semantically, we
don't want to propose things to them. We want to prescribe things to
them. The proposal document really is a bad sales presentation. It
really is what it is. At a bare minimum, what you want to be doing is
semantic changes to it. You are delivering the action plan or the work
plan or almost anything but a proposal.
More importantly, is to try and get to a point where you go from
consultation to contract with no stopping in between. For example, in
everybody I work with at the end of that day, we have outlined. We
have identified what they're going to go do. Sort of their game plan. If
there is a part of it that I am going to deliver now has work product. In
my case, it is copywriting.
We have agreed on what that project is going to be. In some cases, I
will have gone ahead and calculated what it is going to cost them and
laid the money out there, actually, in most cases. In some cases, I will
not have. I will be thinking it over. Then what they get is a contract.
Tomorrow by the way, I will show you contracts.
The contract fully outlines what the work product is going to be. What
the project is going to be. What the payments are going to be. What
the rules of conduct are going to be. It is all there. I see no reason for
written proposals, unless of course, you are not dealing with the
decision maker. Now there is going to be a bunch of other people
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involved in getting to the decision which you really do not want to be in
that position to start with.
I mean when we talk about getting clients tomorrow. One of things is
whether you are corporate or not corporate. My insistence is you
should never be talking to underlings. You should never be spending
time with anybody who can't make a decision and give you money. If
that is the case, then why do we need a written proposal, why can't we
go right to the contract? I think the proposal is just a place to get lost.
Furthermore, if we had no other reason not to do it, it would be that
almost all consultants do it. If for no other reason, we ought to know it
is not the thing to do.
Question In speaking about writing, I am working on a book to establish
expertise, published author thing, and thinking about your No BS
books. They are more of a lead generation tool that I think to a large
degree to get your and if I am wrong, correct me, to get your name out
there and get people exposed to you. How do you write those kinds of
books about your area of expertise, your topic? They contain plugs for
additional resources and stuff but how do you balance what you leave
in and what you leave out? Just sort of tease them to want to go
further and deeper?
Dan:
I view the book as predominantly a very long form sales letter
disguised. The first thing about writing the books is I sort of I don't
work from outlines but I do work from a little short list, again who I like
to raise out of the muck and have excited responding to this thing,
what four or five key message points I want to hammer home that will
resonate with those targeted prospects. It is also very significant, I
think, that like with anything else, I am perfectly willing to repel and
offend people who I don't particularly care whether or not they respond
to the book or not.
Publishing company book editors, by the way, have a very tough time
with that concept. My editor on two of the No BS books, for example,
is, for Entrepreneur Press, is a militant feminist of unknown sexual
orientation who lives in a, well you can edit the tape, don’t be, who
lives in one of the three most liberal states in the country. Needless to
say, she is not fond of my material.
So, I have an editor who is like setting herself on fire with all of the
ways that I am offending militant feminists like her, who live in liberal
states. She just never could get it through her head that I want to
offend them. It is not even that I don't care I actually want to send
them on their way.
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I am sure there is somebody they will be a great fit with but not me. I
am perfectly willing to do that. I am also deliberate about it. Then, to
sort of more to try and more tightly answer your question of how much
you give away and how much you don't give away.
The first part of that answer is that it usually is not deadly to give away
a lot, to show a lot. Especially, if what you show, is now complicated to
implement. I mean look. For years, there is nobody who has ever
hired me for a copywriting assignment may be four or five but almost
everybody who hires me to write copy, owns Magnetic Marketing.
They own the ultimate sales letter. In many cases, they own
copywriting in a box.
I am like showing what I am going to do. It is not like you couldn't go
do it but it actually makes them all the more prefer to have you do it or
help them one-on-them or what ever. For the most part, the fears and
concerns of revealing too much in a book or other product or seminar,
they really do not get in the way of people trying to hire you.
Years ago, Bob Newhart was the first person to do a comedy record
ever. The record companies wanted to do him but they couldn't get
any comedians to them because they all believed that if they put their
act on a record, now nobody would want to come see them in a club.
Obviously, it works exactly in the opposite way. The more it is on a
record, the more they want to come see the guy in the club and they
wanted to see the routine. They have already heard 600 times on the
record and they know.
Bob Newhart will tell you when they close the lid on the coffins,
somebody is going to be yelling "do the driving instructor,” because
you can't go anywhere and not do the driving instructor routine. The
people can like almost sing along with the driving instructor tape.
Similarly, I think when you show what you do but you show it in a way
that demonstrates expertise and makes them think okay I could do this
but in a million years, I will never do it quite as good as he does. I sure
like to get him to do it or I sure like to get him to help me. I reveal a lot
in the books. I don't really worry about that. It is more about the order
in which they are being, more about sales letter structure for the
revelations.
Then, I think the other thing I would tell you about the books is that
they really ought to be story books more than anything else. A simple
way to think about this is you are writing a storybook. You are telling
stories about preferably your clients, their successes, their case
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histories. As well as well-known and famous peoples and companies
which, if they are intermingled, by the way, you kind of get credit for
both of them.
Even though you weren't taking credit for Starbucks but because you
told this story about Starbucks in between the story about your client
that revolutionized. Turned an Italian restaurant into an empire and
this other client who did thus in a retail store, you kind of get credit for
all three of them. Plus again, who you connect yourself with defines
who you are.
I am far from being above using who is hot. I mean in the last couple
of years, I talk more about Trump than I ever did before. It is not
because I wasn't aware of Trump, it's because everybody else wasn't
aware of Trump. Now that everybody else is aware of Trump, I will
end up talking about Trump a lot. He is in their minds. They are seeing
him on TV. He is every where. I would like to be connected to him in
people's little brains when they hear Trump, they think Kennedy when
they like got us together.
Really you are writing storybooks. If you will notice like in my case, I
mean there is profound difference in structure format and style in the
Adams books. The ultimate sales letters book and the ultimate
marketing plan book then there is in a No BS books. The No BS books
are very conversational, very speech, very personality driven. The
Adams books are almost text booky but, hopefully, not deadly, dull and
boring. They are really written to be reference books. Consequently,
they have had that kind of a long life. '91 and '93 respectively.
In some book stores now, they are in the reference book section. They
are not in the marketing book section. They are like Roget's
Thesaurus. They, hopefully, stay there forever. The earlier editions of
those were also when I was doing a lot of speeches. I was looking for
speaking gigs. If you took the original edition of marketing plan sales
letter and compared it to the current edition, one of the things you
would see that was changed is references to when I was in such and
such place speaking for such and such a company this policy I don't
want to attract speaking invitations right now. I got to get that out of
there and put in what I do want to attract.
The other big thing I will tell you about the book thing. Don't make a
big thing out it. As soon as you say book, everybody's like underwear
tightens up. It's about 12 newsletters is a book. A page a day more
than you need.
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Yeah.
okay.
with a
leads.
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At best, as a lead generation device, they are not great. They're
What typically happens is, you know, your business too. So
business book, it’s you will get small numbers of really good
You won't get big numbers of anything.
There is all sorts of things. I get smarter and smarter about it. There is
all sorts of things you want to think through. For example, if I had a
new contract I am negotiating, I want the promotional pages and the
CD in the front of the book, not in the back of the book.
They may never get to the back of the book. You want a sticker that
there is a free offer so they go find it. You don't want them to rely on
reading the book in order to find it. Most of the books that are bought
are never read. That's the bottom line of the book business. Most of
the books that are bought are never read.
There is a lead generation device, it's okay. It is a really good lead
generation device if you are able to build some kind of a big promotion
around it that drives a lot of leads through a capture system. Then, it is
really useful. As a credibility tool, it is spectacular.
As a brochure, it is better than any brochure you will ever build. We
will talk more tomorrow about how to get clients. As a say, I only had a
brochure for one year my entire life. The rest of the time, I sent books
and testimonial letters. I mean that's what I did.
It is funny I used to have this conversation with speakers. I would send
every book I had. If I had three books out by then, we would send all
three books to every. Well, a box with three books in it, that's real
expensive. I am thinking. No. No. No. No. No. I mean if they weren't a
good enough lead to spend ten bucks on, fifteen bucks on, what are
you doing processing them at all. Nothing beats a book as a credibility
tool.
People attach enormous authority and expertise and all of that to it. All
as I say, grossly undeserved. Now that you got a lot of content, really
figure out the sales structure. What do I want to have happen? Who
do I want to pull out of this to attract to me? If you read, Get Elmer's
book. The little red book is selling.
Question I think all of this will work.
Dan:
One of the things Jeff did brilliantly is make that book about really it's a
book to convince sales managers to buy the book in huge quantities
and give it to their sales people. It's right there in the book.
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It pretends to be a book for sales people but it really is a book for the
sales manager to get them to buy the book to cure all his probably
sales people. It is very smartly done. There is like a purpose there.
What do I want have happen here? Who do I want to have rise up?
Question: I had a few questions from today. One was, Ben and I always talk about
how you are a great strategist. One of the things you talked about was
the whole idea of using celebrity or celebrities in your profiles. One of
your members I went to this pitch and I saw you use somebody. Can you
tell me about a little bit of the strategy and how you would position that or
use that? Whether it's photos with them or helping them or working with
them or what you would do there?
Dan:
Any or all of those things. The only thing you can do with a celebrity
that will work against you is get arrested with them while they are
bringing their drugs in from another country. Other than that, like you
can't go wrong.
Now, it's about how much can you get? Now the first thing you should
know, everybody ought to know, is there’s lots of opportunities to
connect yourself to celebrities for free. Most people, squander those.
They don't even take advantage of those. I have peed and moaned for
25 years to my chiropractor friends, there is not a week that goes by
that in some newspaper or magazine, you can't find an article about
some Hollywood celebrity, Olympic athlete, proathlete who is swearing
that if they weren't seeing their chiropractor, they would be crippled.
Nobody ever uses those articles.
I remember Joe Montana was still playing for the 49ers, the last Super
Bowl he won. There was a big article in the National Enquirer about
Joe Montana and his chiropractor. Well, I mean what do you need that
gives you Joe Montana for free? That's what it does, if you are a
chiropractor. Nobody uses it. I mean it's remarkable to me.
On a paid basis, if that's what you are asking about, a very abbreviated
answer to the question is this. When you rent them or buy them, hire
them, there is different levels of usage and that has an impact on how
much money. There is everything from I am going to use your picture
and this little statement, this innocuous non-endorsement statement.
Paul McGuire is the most interesting guy I ever met in my life and that's
it. Then, there is, I am going to use your picture and Paul McGuire
knows more about real estate than anybody I have ever met in my life.
That's going to cost you more.
The more usage you want, typically, the more money you are going to
pay. Unless, you find the guy who desperately needs any money this
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week and they're there every week. Their needs change on a week to
week, year to year basis. Celebrities are no different than any other
population group. They continually sift and sort themselves into 5%,
15% and 80%.
So, 80% of them are broke. Eighty percent of them are about to have
their Mercedes repossessed. Eighty percent of them got all kinds of
problems. There is always somebody who takes small money is just a
question of finding them, usage sort of controls cost. You got to think
through all the usages you would want and then you got to go
shopping. You have to figure out what your budget is and all of that.
There is ample and empirical evidence that almost every usage more
than pays for itself one way or another or multiple ways. Now, when I
say that, for example, let's take George Foreman speaking at Rory
Fatt's Boot Camp this year. George Foreman, I think, costs $75,000
bucks. The usage Rory got was George is going to be there to speak.
He is going to get some pictures taken with him by his coaching group
members. He recorded, I don't know, 10, 12 minutes worth of stuff that
we used on teleseminars.
I took George Foreman's two books and rewrote a little booklet of
success stuff by George Foreman. Like one little mini chapter by
George and then a chapter by Rory and then a chapter by George and
then a chapter by Rory that really was a pitch for the boot camp but
looks like a little booklet from George. That's about it.
How can get our $75,000 bucks back and more? Well, he could help
attendance. That's one thing that could happen. At $2,000 bucks a
piece, he doesn't have to get that many more there in order to justify
his existence purely on that. He could help overall response by they
open an envelope with George on it, when they wouldn't have opened
it otherwise. They come to a teleseminar that George is on where they
wouldn't have come to the teleseminar otherwise. That now reflects in
our registration numbers.
Let's say that he doesn't. Let's say our numbers year to year are the
same. Well, did we waste our $75,000 dollars? Not necessarily.
There is also the mood of the people at the book camp at which we are
selling coaching. So, remember, positive feelings, negative feelings.
If they have positive feelings because George Foreman is there and
this is exciting and they can't wait to go home and tell everybody that
they met George Foreman and they are excited about coming to meet
George Foreman and George is happy and funny and everybody likes
George.
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Everybody in coaching gets to get their picture taking with George and
everybody who is not in coaching, has to stand behind the line and
watch people getting their picture taking with George. Now, he can
have a big impact on what happens on site even if he had no impact
on what happens prior to on site.
How else could he have an impact? Even though we bought the
usage for this event and this event only, the history of this usage never
goes away. So Rory with George at this event and we had George at
this event, we had this person at this event., that person. That piles up
and accumulates and so now over a period of three or four years, we
have Rory with the with strategy with five or six or seven of these
people not one and that makes Rory a celebrity because we have
surrounded him with celebrities.
How else does George pay his way? He discourages other marketers
of seminars to restaurant owners because they aren't willing to go
spend $75,000 dollars to get a celebrity. They start to look at this
campaign. That, oh my God, they got elephants. They got George
Foreman. They got acrobats. They got this. They got that. Well, I can
never run up against that. I won't play the game at all.
Now, it's going to be very hard to see that benefit cause you don't see
what didn't happen to you. It's like how do you brag about stopping a
terrorist, if you can't tell what you did. Somewhere there is somebody
who might have been attempted to come into the market place who
you now would have had to spend money to deal with and now you
don't have to because George bought you some insulation. If you want
to use him that way, which Rory hasn't. How else does George help
you with the media and the industry?
Really it's worth news releases. That George Foreman, the George
Foreman grill guy is speaking at this event will trade journals write
about that? Sure, they will.
Should you invite the three trade journal editors to a special reception
with George at your meeting so there is a lot of ways that you can
recover that $75,000 bucks, boot camp in a box sales, etc. Usually,
this is money well spent. In our kinds of businesses, it doesn't take
much to see direct recovery and then there is a lot of other indirect
benefits.
Again, just think about reputation. What people say about us? What
they tell other people about us? The stories they are telling. Well, if
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everybody in the restaurant industry is saying Rory's the guy who
hangs out with George Foreman and hangs out with this celebrity,
hangs out with that celebrity. That's a better thing being said about
him and that has enormous value.
Usage controls money. The biggest thing to leave out is broadcast. If
you are not using him for TV, and you are no using him for radio, it
makes a lot easier to get a deal. They have a lot less anxiety about it
and so forth.
The other quick thing to understand is that most of them don't get want
we do. It takes some patience and some -- Like Rory used Mike Ditka
last year. Ditka goes and does a lot of speaking but that likes yet.
Somebody sends him there. He gets there. He speaks. He leaves.
Like they had him scheduled for a teleseminar and thank God Ditka's
assistance calls like two days before the teleseminar and says who is
picking him up at the airport and what time is he suppose to be in
Vancouver for this seminar you guys got him booked for?
No, he's doing a teleseminar. Well, nobody knew what a teleseminar
was. He's got his bags packed and he's ready to head to O'Hara to get
on an air plane to go somewhere to do this damn seminar that he don't
even remember having agree to do this. They don't get what we do.
The other thing about celebrities to always think about is how you can
buy a big one for the price of a small one. A lot of us have had the
opportunity to do that in the past few years because of Trump and the
Apprentice. We had Bill Rancic at a super conference. Lot less
expensive to get Bill Rancic than it is to get Donald Trump. We had
Kristi Frank do some things lot less expensive to get Kristi than Donald
Trump. They are like link at the hip. Really, we are buying Trump at a
discount is what we are doing.
Question: I just had a quick question actually regarding -- the relationship stuff
you talked about earlier where you want to give enough that you are
building a relationship with the customer but at the same time, you
don't want to give to much that it goes over the edge. Now, you talk a
lot about yourself in your autobiography and Carla to be in your
business. You talk a lot also. You show Scott Tucker's work. He
always includes his dog and that becomes part of his stick. Where do
you draw the line?
Dan:
Well, when you got Tucker's personality, you need like a dog
everybody is going to like. That's like essential. You want to show
Charlie Manson with rabbits, little bunnies. Look at my little bunny.
Takes the edge off of having an ax murderer.
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There is a fairly long answer to your question which is actually in
tomorrow's material. The short answer to your question is you reveal
personal things strategically like anything else. What you can't judge
by looking at what I do is what personal things I choose not to reveal.
You can only see the ones obviously that I choose to reveal. There is
careful thought about all of that. None of that is accidental.
Generally speaking what it does it allows people to identify with you in
different ways. For example, the revelation of having been bankrupted
always worked for me and always works for me. Why? In any
audience of entrepreneurs, hundred or more, there is somebody in
there that has been bankrupted. There is another two or three have
been on the edge. Okay.
They think it is a deep dark secret. For the most part, they have kept it
to themselves and in some cases, they are embarrassed about it. In
some cases, they think it is some kind of detriment to success and so
forth.
Literally, as soon as I talk about it, I get them. It wouldn't matter what
else I was doing. I got them.
In every audience, there's a parent
either a stutterer or a parent of a stutterer. As soon as I talk about it, I
get them. It doesn't matter what I am selling. It doesn’t matter who
they are. It doesn't matter. I got them.
It is sort of knocking off numbers. Small numbers multiple. Same thing
happens if they read it. Most of that stuff is like in the no harm, no foul
category but it's going to resonate with certain people and it's going to
attract individuals that it would not have attracted otherwise. Also, it’s
the virtue of not having things hidden and the fewer of them the better.
Now, I never have to worry about somebody deciding that the
bankruptcy was big deal. Well, I have told everybody about it. On that
level, it's like I can get him with this. I can get him with this. I can get
him with this and boom that's get me another 18 responses. On
another level, it's about strengthening the human part of the bond,
again, because they will only be with you for a certain period of time for
the core stuff.
Then, they are with you because of the relationship. The tricky part is
not to do it in such a way that it invites a different kind of relationship
than you want. If we went down the list, I got the list. We will look at it
tomorrow. If I was doing most of what I have done in personal
disclosure without counter balancing it with some of the deliberate
reputation for grumpy, tough, unpleasant, arbitrary, difficult, if I took
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that away, I would create a lot of nightmares for myself with the other
list. It is only because I do the one I am actually able to do a lot of the
other.
We want to do a couple things. First, there are two clips of video, and
if you rent the Millionaire Retreat Video you saw one of them but both
of these things are pointed about what we’ve discussed today and they
are actually kind of fun.
If you haven’t seen the whole movie, than by all means go and get and
watch the movie. After seeing the little piece today the whole movie is
like what I said about Sydney’s book and what I said about the game.
This is an unintentional sales training film. That is obviously not why
they made it, but that’s what they wound up with. It is the perfect sales
training film for consultants and experts.
The film is “The Muse” with Sharon Stone and Albert Brooks. The
second thing I want to show you is the Feng Shui and the water
segment from the Penn and Teller’s “Bullshit Show”, this by the way is
on Showtime. It’s worth subscribing to Showtime just to get the
Bullshit Show or you could go buy the DVD’s I guess if you want to.
“The Muse” is about a Hollywood script writer who has sort of “lost it”
and can’t turn out good product and is in trouble. One of his friends
breaks down and reveals to him that his success in the last couple of
years has been due to his discovery of this professional “muse”. She
doesn’t actually write anything, she just inspires you to have great
ideas.
There is an incredibly great punch line at the end of the movie, which I
wont ruin for anybody who hasn’t seen it, it’s not necessary to “get” the
part that we’re going to show you this evening, but there’s a big run up
to this that you’ll have missed about all of his problems and travails
and him beating out of his friend that this muse exists and it turns out
that all sorts of people in Hollywood are secretly relying upon her for
her “musing” for her inspiration of their successes. So, then he’s got to
get an appointment with this muse which is difficult to get and so forth.
So what I’m going to show you is the clip of what happens from that
point in the conversation up to and including his first visit with the
muse.
There’s a ton of stuff afterwards, that’s why you have to see the movie
because until they put this one comedic thing in, the whole movie is
really about how she takes control of this client and has him doing
them most extraordinary things in order for him to keep her working for
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him. It’s really an enormous lesson in “client control”. This stuff is
really pretty fun to watch as well.
[Video Played]
The best part is the visual is the tossing the little box up on the mantle.
The Bullshit show, the Feng Shui one is about consultants and is kind
of entertaining in and of itself. The water episode is about how
managing expectations controls what people believe to be true. So
we’ll watch that thing and then we’ll have our conversation.
[Video Played]
Well so much for drinking bottled water huh? Do you guys need a
break? “No?” Great! Actually, by the way, you could carefully, all
kidding aside, and take notes. Especially in the Feng Shui thing, is all
three of those people were enormously talented at keeping a straight
face. None of them cracked. The turtle, the lady had a perfect straight
face while she’s selling the turtle. That doesn’t happen without
practice. You can’t just walk in there and do that.
The water thing is that they’re in a fancy restaurant, there’s a wine
steward, it must be real right? And of course, he kept a straight face
too. That’s our business. That’s what we do. That’s it. And all of
those examples are well worth careful and closer study.
money
Let’s talk about money a little bit. You were promised a little bonus
section on that and I pulled some stuff for you. A lot of the attraction
of money from people and getting money from people has to do with
how you think and feel about money.
There are two sort of overriding philosophies about money. One is that
there is a fine item out of it and that if you subtract some, the
subtraction is permanent and that if you get a dollar, it had to diminish
someone’s store of dollars.
One of the reasons that corporate clients are frustrated are two things,
one is their philosophy of money includes the idea of budgets; they
develop an advertising budget for the year in advance of the year.
Well, what’s wrong with that picture? It’s a predetermined restriction of
how much their sales can be for the entire year because they based it
on a formulaic equation against their sales.
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Your advertising budget should be to spend as much as you can
possibly spend so that you can turn the money over so sell more
advertise more, sell more, and advertise more and so on. Who knows
how much you should spend on advertising this year because we don’t
know how the hell much you’re going to sell this year yet. Their
budgeting is based on the idea of “finite” amount of money.
The other corporate thing that gets talked about is market share.
Everybody starts out with a predetermined idea that there is a size of a
market. There is only so many people that are going to do college
planning this year. There are only so many people that are going to do
cosmetic dentistry this year. There are only so many people who are
going to get coaching this year and it all adds up to this and now we’re
all fighting and worrying over “our share” of that market.
What happens if we can make the market bigger? Then, all bets are
off right? In many respects I was sorry to see him get canned. The
last new CEO of Home Depot made the excellent point that Home
Depot’s evaluations, the last of everybody’s opinion of Home Depot
was based upon market sharing. His argument was, it’s based on the
“Do It Yourself” market. The fastest growing and evolving market is
the “Do It For Them” market, so what if we combine that market with
the “Do It Yourself” market, and then there’s the “Contractor” market
which we haven’t done a very good job with, so why don’t we put that
in there and then all the market share measurements are off.
When you think in these limited terms, you automatically set yourself
up for limited results. So a lot of people believe that there is a “finite”
amount of money. Each customer or client has a “finite” amount of
money that they are going to spend total. They have certain price
points that they will not go past. Your conversation, if you’re in
business if you consult or coach, will incorporate statements made by
the clients that “Oh our customers would never spend X”, Whatever
that amount is or “our customers would never spend more than Y on
this”. Or “customers in Beverly Hills might spend that much for this,
but customers in Doofus, WV would never pay that much for this”.
All of these predetermined ideas about money and they are all limiting
statements. A client who is highly skilled, highly talented, all of the
elements that we look for to be fabulously successful in the
consulting/coaching business should probably be doing $30 Million a
year. They are only doing $5 Million.
If you strung them all together in a day, you’d have about three hours
of these limiting statements of what their customers won’t do and why
their customers wont pay X and all of this.
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Some years ago I empirically proved to them that you could do pretty
much what Ron Caruthers did. That you could take their thousand
dollar price point and get a fifteen thousand dollar price point and it
mattered not. So they’ve left it at fifteen thousand dollars. They have
continued that part of their business.
All their other parts of their business they‘re still right back where they
were before of “our customers will never spend more than this” or “oh
my gosh our customers would never spend that”, including the 412
reasons why their customers wouldn’t spend, including the fact that
their customers don’t have the money.
The best illustration of that is that when you go home, find the worst
mobile home park in your community that you can find. I mean you
want it where the kids have no underwear on, running around out in
the front gravel. The trailer’s up on cement blocks leaning to one side,
with a couple of good crack dealers in there and I mean that kind of
Mobile Home Park, where they are just falling apart.
There will be satellite televisions, there will be dishes mounted on the
sides to go to the 52” television set inside the mobile home, which
actually the weight of the thing is knocking the mobile home off it’s
blocks. People have the money for what they really wish or decide to
spend the money on. In almost all cases, without exception, we will
underestimate their ability and willingness to spend.
Now the nice thing about our business is, that most of you, well
probably almost all of you in here, their coaching and consulting has a
direct ROI result. I mean our business has increased the capacity to
spend the more they buy. If they use it at all, because, if they use it,
they do better and they can buy more and we should be thinking in
terms of that cycle.
The other interesting thing about this is that for several years I spoke at
Joe Polish’s Boot camp for Carpet Cleaners and every year we did “hot
seats” and after the first year I started making fun of it thinking it would
end, and it never did.
There would always be someone that would come up to the hot seat
and their contention was that all of their customers were cheap skates
and everybody in their community was poor and everybody bought by
price and that if competitors did it for 2 cents a square foot than they
had to do it for 2 cents a square foot. By the way, as a side, the one
making the most in Feng Shui, the one who made the most money was
the one with the formula. Rather than quoting a fee, she had a
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mechanism for figuring out how much the fee should be, which in that
case was $7,000 and everybody else was charging $3000.
So I would sit there in the hot seat and say, “If that is true, then there
should only be one store, Wal-Mart, that’s it”. There should be no
other stores because if everyone in your community only buys things
by price you can’t beat Wall-marts price and they sell everything so
why would there be anything else? Is there a Sears? Is there a
Neman Marcus? Is there a Nordstrom’s or Macy’s? is there a Target?
And when we drive down the street the only car we should see is a
Kia. You can’t buy a cheaper car than a Kia. So it’s the only thing we
should see. So you guys got a Ford dealer over there? How can he
possibly be staying in business? You have a GM Dealer?
Now if it’s not the area, but the customers, and you managed to round
up all the cheap skates in the area as your customers, what did you do
to round up all the cheap skates because you’re the one that picked
them!
So this whole thing about price and movement of money and how
money moves mostly has to do with what you believe about price and
money and how money moves and it doesn’t really have to do with
much else.
My old friend Foster said “More people have hang ups about money
than they do about sex”, and he’s probably right. People come to our
business with an entire complicated belief system that mostly gets in
their way.
Tonight I thought we’d just talk about a few of those things. One is the
actual way money moves from one person to another in society. Most
people think that it moves for reasons that it does not or that it is
controlled by things that do not control it, so here are a couple of great
quotes.
“Money, like fire, has little trouble by moralizing as earth, air and
water.” What does that mean? Well it means that houses and good
people catch on fire not just houses and bad people. Seemingly the
system should have been designed differently don’t you think? I mean
really, the only houses that should burn down are the ones where
nasty child predators live. Why does the house of a really nice person
burn down?
It’s a bad System. Well, because fire doesn’t make any judgments.
Fire sets fire to stuff that’s ready to burn down, so the electric plug
goes bad. Fire doesn’t make a judgment of “oops the electric plug
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went bad, but it’s in the house of some really nice people so we won’t
burn their house down, we’ll wait till the plug goes bad in a house that
evil people live in.” Fire doesn’t do that. Money doesn’t do that either.
Money
Moves For
Its Own
Reasons
Money makes no moral judgments whatsoever. So a lot of people
have the idea that purely by being good people they will prosper.
That’s not how money moves. It doesn’t even move based on
delivering a good service. I told you that the best adjustments I ever
got, the best Chiropractors I know are the most impoverished because
they don’t understand what makes money move from one person to
another in society. They think it is the exceptional value of the core
service that they deliver and that’s not what makes money move.
Some of the things that do make money move. If you carefully
observe, we ended talking about one of them today. Celebrity makes
money move. Money moves from people to celebrities. Now we could
have a whole conversation on their ability to keep it. That has to do
with them, that don’t have to do with the movement of the money in the
first place.
All you have to do is pay attention to Forbes. Forbes publishes a list
of not the 400 richest people of the year, but the “400 Richest List of
Celebrities” go look at the numbers, go look at the actors. Thirty years
ago, an actor was an employee. You hired him for a couple hundred
thousand dollars a year; he made eight movies a year, he made the
movies that you told him to make. Not anymore. That whole system is
upside down, Pro sports is upside down. The money moves to the
celebrity. Not necessarily to the most talented.
We can all find more talented singers than Britney who aren’t getting
the kind of money that is moving to Britney. We can find more talented
athletes than, how come a whole lot of money moved again to Terrell
Owens? His stats actually suck. He drops as many as he catches and
the drops are at critical times and his catches aren’t. He loses more
than he wins. A ton of money moved to him. Why? He’s TO, but not
for any other reason. He’s still in Dallas and Bill isn’t? Why? The
money moves to the biggest celebrity. Money moves to the biggest
promoters.
Money is attracted by speed. Money is attracted by self promotion.
Money is attracted by something that is exciting. It moves for reasons
of it’s own that don’t have anything to do with moral judgment. It does
not go where it’s most needed. If that happened, all of the real estate
of late would not have been in Las Vegas; it would not have been in
Miami, they were already very well developed. All of the real estate
money would have gone to New Orleans and Bangladesh and Somalia
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and everybody would be building high rise apartments in Somalia if
money went where it was needed. It goes for other reasons.
It is important to become an accurate thinker about how money moves
in society and then to put those forces to work for you, not to either
ignore them or to fight them and certainly not to align yourself with
false beliefs about how money moves.
For a lot of people, the “finite” thought thing gets in the way. They
believe that if they take $30,000 from this person. This person is now
$30,000 poorer and has $30,000 less to spend. I use that number as
an example, because we know several people who are in multiple
$30,000 coaching programs in the same niche. Not only are they in
one, they are in two, three and some cases they are in four in the
same niche. So how come the first guy taking $30,000 from them
didn’t paralyze them for the second, third and fourth guy?
There’s a variety of explanations for this, one of which is that a buyer is
a buyer is a buyer is a buyer, all populations continually sort
themselves to five, fifteen and eighty. Five percent of every population
buys everything, fifteen percent buys a lot and eighty percent of the
population buys nothing.
In any given niche, let’s take dentistry where Charlie is, if we analyze
whose in every practice management group and every coaching group
and every client group, do you know what we’re going to find? Five
percent of the profession are in a crap load of them, fifteen percent are
in some of them and eighty percent of them are in none of them and
they’re never going to be in any of them.
It doesn’t have anything to do with the money; it has to do with human
behavior. The zero sum game really doesn’t exist either. Let’s talk
about the forces that move money over which you have control.
The first is what you decide. You make all the decisions that control
whether money flows to you or whether it does not. These are the
things that really control money. You get to decide who you want to
be. Nobody else needs to have any governance over that.
We were talking at dinner, Lee and Carla and Sydney and I
exchanging “where did you grow up and under what circumstances?”
The stories are interesting and if anything what they have in common
was an environmental need for resourcefulness at a young age, but
fundamentally where you grew up has no impact on what you decide
today about who it is that you are going to be.
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It doesn’t matter if you grew up in Manhattan, or if you grew up in
Poughkeepsie, or West Virginia or Bangladesh. Sometimes we’ll hear
“These poor people that are in the ghetto and they’re third generation
welfare people and the only role models they’ve ever had are drug
dealers and they don’t have a chance. Except, we can go find stories
of people who have come out of that exact environment and are
fabulously successful and fabulously wealthy.
The losers amongst us think, “Where there’s one, there’s a freak
accident”. The winners amongst us think “where there’s one, there’s a
formula, there’s a model and could be one, a hundred a thousand or
an unlimited number if they just followed the model. So, where you
grew up or the conditions you grew up under, supportive or non
supportive parents, none of that has an impact on which you will
become today. None of that determines what you want to do today.
Now we do say there are some real limits, but are far away from what
most people operate under. As a practical matter I can’t go be the
quarter back of the Dallas Cowboys. The Cleveland Browns, or the
Oakland Raiders, maybe, but I could buy them. I could own them.
For most people what they want to do is well within their grasp. It’s
what you want to be known for. Well you decide that. Nothing prior to
today matters, it doesn’t control it. It isn’t for any of us to decide what
that is. You can decide right now, tonight. You can sit down with a
pad and write down the five things that you want to be known for and
go to work to be known for them and make it happen. It’s a very
mechanical process, how you want to be perceived, how you want to
conduct business and live, who you want to associate with, who you
want to let into your world and who you do not want to let into your
world.
One of my first speaking gigs, and it’s still one of my favorite stories
about this. I was doing basic personal growth, real motivational stuff
and speaking for free any place they’d let me speak free in Phoenix. A
lot of the stuff was real estate stuff. So I’m speaking in this real
estate’s morning training meeting and that was when meeting
attendance was compulsory so the brokerage actually insisted that
they be there. There was like eight people at eight desks and they’re
all reading the paper, drinking coffee and all that stuff while I’m reading
the paper it was horrible.
When it was all over with, this woman comes up to me and says “I
agree with everything you said but”, which it is the “but” that gets you.
I’d like to have a penny for every time I’ve heard “I agree with what you
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said but” or “you were right but, I’m still going to keep doing it the
wrong way despite the fact that you were right”.
So anyway, she comes up and says “I agree with everything you said,
but I want to be a positive thinker and the person that works next to me
comes to work, brings the paper, reads it aloud and talks about all the
bad news that’s in the newspaper. So that person every day gives me
all the bad economic news and fundamentally those are the reasons
why I’m not going to be able to make any money today, this week, this
month or whatever and this happens for like ½ an hour every morning.”
I said… change desks? Move your desk. You know, you’re not ankle
chained to the guy. If he’s a toxic person, move, If they won’t let you
change desks, change offices. There are 10,000 real estate
brokerages in Phoenix, they’ll all welcome you and hang your license
on the wall. You decide who you let in, you decide who you sit next to
except on Southwest. You decide who you hang out with.
You decide where you want to work and live. I used to get that all the
time when I lived in Phoenix. Someone on a plane would say “Oh you
live in Phoenix, I wish I could live in Phoenix, I live in Rutabaga, MN
where it’s always 42 below zero and oh it’s just awful.”
I told him “they have those green signs overhead with arrows on them
and they tell you how to get out of town. You don’t even need a wizard
gizmo, there are signs you know? And they show you… leave and you
decide when you want to do things.”
The first thing that makes money move to people is decision.
Somebody in here mentioned LMI earlier to me on a break and I mean
Paul Meyers great quote was “if you’re not getting what you want out of
life, it’s probably because your goals are not clearly enough defined.”
I mean he’s basically right. It’s certainly not because of any shortage
of opportunity. We just saw a bunch of complete fruit loops getting
paid $3000 to go in and move the furniture around. It wouldn’t surprise
me to find out she’s booked solid. It’ isn’t for lack of opportunity.
See, one of the messages of what you just saw, the bottled water, the
Feng Shui, all of it is that there is a ton of money out there moving
around all of the time. Money is always moving around, it’s always
fluid. There’s a lot of money out there.
Go look, walk around, go to a mall. Drive around a shopping center on
a Friday night and try to get into a restaurant. When the hell was the
last time Carla that we were in that Mac store? I mean I forget when
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we were there, it was an off night and it wasn’t like Christmas or
anything and it was dinner hour. People are in line 20 deep with piles
of this stuff, laptops and gizmos and you would think they were buying
popcorn at Kmart.
Big screen TV’s, can’t keep them in stock. The Best Buy store right in
my neighborhood just before the super bowl actually put a big sign up
on the building “we’re out of televisions.”
You ask, why aren’t more people coming in? They are out of TV’s, it’s
over, and we are out. No bother us, we sold all the 52 inch HDTV’s we
could get our hands on before the Super Bowl. We got no more, we
can’t get anymore. Don’t even bother coming in.
I don’t live in Beverly Hills; I live in a very modest community in Ohio.
There is money out there that is flowing like it has never been flowing.
It flows to the people who decide to take it and to put it motion the
factors that make it come to them.
The first thing is all about decision, how much do you want? How fast
do you want to get it? Why not go from zero to a million instead of
zero to a hundred thousand. Why not double the business instead of
increase the business incrementally by ten percent a year? You just
decide to do it.
My favorite Iacocca story is his story about the convertible, where
Chrysler is belly up, as they are now again. They are on the verge of
going south, there is no money, they are under all kinds of pressure,
he is on the midst of a turnaround, and he is trying to raise money,
borrow money.
He has all kinds of problems going on, no R and D going on, he is on
the factory floor and three guys come over and say, that car would
make a great convertible and there are no convertibles being sold.
There are no American made convertibles on the road. In case you
didn’t know Chrysler put them back on. Three guys say that car would
make a great convertible; Iacocca says get a blow torch, cut the roof
off, let’s get in it and drive around, see if girls are interested in it. If
they are, we will make it. You probably couldn’t find another
automaker in the history of the auto industry who would do what he
did, especially under the conditions he was under.
Everybody else would have organized committees, got the R and D
guys in, do research, talk to the lawyers. What is our litigation risk of
convertibles? It would be like a three year development project and by
the time they got the thing on the road, if they got it on the road. The
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company would be bankrupt or there would be fifty other convertibles
on the road.
He just said let’s go find out, when we stop at traffic lights, girls look at
us. If they do, we know guys will buy them and they did. After they
took turns driving around a couple of days, he called everybody into
the office and said let’s make them. No R&D, just make them.
That’s decision. Most people never really make decisions about these
issues. Who they really want to be, who are they? Whoever they
turned out to be, not who they decided to be. What are they doing?
They are doing some compromise of what they turned out to be doing.
If you ask most people why are they doing what they are doing, it is
what I went to school to do, it is what dad did, or I don’t know how to
do anything else. I hear that a lot. This is all I know how to do; this is
what you will hear from all the automakers, who are losing their jobs.
For twenty years everybody has known they are going to lose their
jobs. They’ve had twenty years to learn a new job. This is all I know
how to do. How did you get to do this? I learned how to do this.
Seemingly, if you could learn to do this, you could learn how to do
something else. Don’t you think?
Clarity
Attracts
Money
The first thing that starts money moving towards you is decision is
making these kinds of decisions as clearly as you can. Another way to
say it is clarity attracts money. Cloudiness, fuzziness does not attract
money. Money goes to where there is clear thought.
There’s an article in, what is the local magazine? The Washingtonian,
What is it? It is a local, high end magazine. There is an article in this
issue about Steve Case, the guy who originally started AOL. Who’s
got the new Brisbane Health thing that he is doing. It is an article
worth reading, he is very clear about what he intends to do.
Consequently, I’d invest, if there is a place to invest, because of his
clarity. That is the first thing that makes money move. People making
decisions about what it is that they are going to do and how they are
going to do it and when they are going to do it and where they are
going to do it.
The second thing that causes money to move is planting the decisions
into subconscious and letting it do the work. Most of you have
undoubtedly seen the much publicized and much promoted DVD “The
Secret,” which Oprah has adopted.
I have many thoughts about it, which we don’t have time for. I will tell
you that, one of the most interesting things about it. How many here
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have seen it? Everybody has seen it, everybody has heard about it,
hottest thing since sliced bread. Interesting things about it to me is that
it is an unacknowledged but unabashed and direct rip off of Earl
Nightingale’s recording The Strangest Secret from 1960 something.
To its core message being verbatim lifted from Earl Nightingale’s The
Strangest Secret. Which is we become what we think about most. It is
said in Earl Nightingale’s recording and it is said in this thing as well. It
is both true and false, the old joke about it is, if it is true we become
what we think about most, I am going to have a problem because in
another three hours, I am going to become a woman. It is not exactly
literal.
What is unsaid about it should be and neither the old message nor the
new message makes it clear. Is that it is not just about conscious
thought it’s about subconscious thought. It is about what you plant
subconsciously that the subconscious is now directed to work on.
If you plant clearer decisions in the subconscious, then in ways we can
spend days instead of minutes debating and talking about. In ways it
is not hard to understand, the subconscious goes to work to pull all the
resources and opportunities and people and connections and stuff
together to make it happen.
I have seen it over and over again in my own life to the point where
you can plant it and you can know if it is properly planted that all sorts
of things are going to start happening in order for it to turn into reality.
Since most people don’t clearly decide these things they can’t actually
plant them. If you do, then attraction rather than pursuit.
Somebody asked me on a break, you did, I’ll do a simplified version of
what she said to me. She basically said, I am getting all my business
by chasing it and I need to get a certain amount of business right now
for continually for financial reasons. I can’t really afford to take one
step backwards, to take two steps forward ninety days later. I am
reluctant to stop the chasing but how do I switch to attracting?
Here is part of the answer; the chasing is a very conscious process.
The attraction is very subconscious process. It’s decide, plant, let it
come to you. Sales people, which she’s a sales person, I am a sales
person, we’re ingrained to chase. It is instinctive behavior but we do it
all on a conscious level, we make all those decisions on a conscious
level.
The subconscious is a much more powerful entity when you clearly
plant what you want in it. The person who has a bunch of cheap
customers who won’t pay x for what it is that they want, for example.
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They need to back up and start here. They need to decide on what
type of customer they want and then they need to plant that decision
and pretty soon they’ll start to attract those kinds of customers. It
really isn’t that much more complicated than that.
The third thing that causes money to flow to you is really a pretty
interesting one, it’s ask. My friend Mark Victor Hansen, one of the
things that I have observed, I think he is better at it then anybody. I
have gotten better at it but he is exceptional at this. He will ask
anybody for anything with no thought of reciprocity, no real reason why
they should do it, no attempt to give them any reason to do it
necessarily. He will just ask them. A good percentage of the time, they
will give him what he asks for.
Most people don’t get because they don’t ask. They don’t put it out
there and they don’t place demands on everybody. In the businesses
that we talked about earlier today the coaching and consulting
business, you have to get very good at placing demands on people.
You really are going to need a lot of people to work for you.
Turn The
Relationship
Upside Down –
Make Demands.
You need a lot of people to refer to you, you need people to multiply on
your behalf, you need people to spread the word about you, you need
people to comply. You got to be really really good at placing demands
on people.
The little clip out of the Muse, she moves from I am accepting you as
my client to suite at the Four Seasons on a high floor, here is my
dietary list and oh by the way take the dry cleaning on your way there.
He’s her client, don’t chalk it up to oh it is a funny fictional movie. Don’t
look at it that way; looks at it like an unintentional sales training film for
consultants. That is what it is.
The placing of demands on people is a way to get control over them
and money moves to people who ask and place demands. That is who
money moves to. Money does not move to people who wait for, or
timid, or patient, or all of that. That’s not how money moves. Money is
attracted to people who ask and place demands.
That means you need to develop a system for this. You need to
develop a process that you use repeatedly over and over again for
asking people, for obligating people, for giving recognition for what
they do, for rewarding not necessarily monetarily. Then they will
continue to give you money.
One of my earliest clients said to me, your fee is too too low. He said
don’t raise mine, but raise everybody elses. In 1974, it was the best
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thing I ever heard because he was right. Your fee is too low and
people won’t take you seriously because it is too low. Raise your fee
you will be taken more seriously.
It is not just about getting more money by raised fee. It’s raise fee in
order to convey the right message, in order to get more money. There
is more to it than raise prices. Money moves because of all these
forces that you set in motion. You set them in motion.
The last big thing that makes money move is to act. Some people
manage to get decision made but then they don’t ever really take the
blow torch, cut the roof off and two days later decide to make the damn
car. Act with supreme and holy, unreasonable confidence.
Start things with no idea of how the hell they are going to be completed
or being ready to do that. If you wait to get organized you are not in
the money attraction business you are in the getting organized
business.
I have a person in coaching, finally got rid of him this year, but I had
him for three years. Every conversation was what he was going to do,
key words going to, not what I am doing, what I am going to.
I have another guy; he’s my favorite, two years, a phone call every
month to talk about the sales letter, the same sales letter, the sales
letter that never got mailed. He was working on the sales letter trying
to develop the perfect the sales letter. After two years he is still
sending me eighteen new drafts before the phone call about the sales
letter. First of all I don’t care, secondly at this I can’t tell anymore
what’s good and what’s bad. It is impossible. Third of all, we could
have found out more two years ago by mailing some of them. Buy
some stamps; get the thing in the mail. I’m waiting for this I’m waiting
for that.
Renegade
Millionaire
.com
In the Renegade Millionaires System I talk about the fact that, the
wealthy don’t do anything sequentially. They do a whole bunch of
things simultaneously. It’s the opposite of how we are all taught how to
behave. If you think about money in general, here is what everybody
tries to do, they try to get wealthy sequentially. Meaning they try to
make some money and then when they are making more money than
they need to eat, house, etc. Then they try to save some money, then
when they save enough money to make it worth screwing around with
investing. Then they finally get around to investing money.
The sequential thing they never get there. You got to make, save, and
invest all the same time. You got to take it off the top of every dollar
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that comes in. People do business the same way; they try to do it
sequentially. That’s not how you get things done and that is not how
you attract money to you.
Money is attracted to something going on that is big and exciting and
dramatic and dynamic and chaotic. It is not attracted to the tiny, timid,
methodical, sequential things. It doesn’t notice, anymore then the rest
of the world notices.
If you look at Trump, one of the most interesting things about Trump
over all the things interesting about Trump. Nobody makes more
affirming statements per minute then he does. Watch him now when
he is interviewed. People make fun of it; they don’t get what he is
doing, so they make fun of it. Every statement is affirming, every
project is going to be the greatest project anybody has seen.
This will be the greatest golf club ever built on the planet earth. This is
going to be the greatest season, this is going to be the greatest show,
this is fabulous, and this is terrific. Everything is big, tallest building,
biggest building, biggest golf course, biggest golf course built on a
slant, biggest this, grandest this, greatest that.
You don’t get people really excited by saying we are building the
nineteenth best thing or the twenty-seventh biggest thing. You don’t
draw much attention with that and you don’t attract money with that.
You act but you have to act in a big way to inspire yourself and others.
Larger than life, remember that is what people want. That’s the
process for putting all the forces in motion that move money to you. I
would like to talk a little more about price with you.
Price is sort of a representation of how people think about money.
What did you think this morning, I asked rhetorically, you can answer
to yourself? What did you think this morning, what ran through your
mind when Caruthers said eleven hundred bucks, we raised the price
to thirty thousand dollars. What would run through most people’s
minds is all sorts of negative things. I don’t believe it, it must be more
to it than that. I can never get away with that with my product service
customers market. He must be doing something unethical, criminal,
illegal, deceptive, fraudulent, etc.
All it really says is that the eleven hundred was the wrong price, that’s
all it says. Doesn’t say anything more than that doesn’t say anything
less than that. It says the eleven hundred was a gross miscalculation
of what the market would bear and what the market perceived the
service has been worth.
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Doesn’t say anything more than that, more or less. That is all it says
the eleven hundred dollar price was wrong and his example is not
unusual. I have seen it and or engineered it again and again, with
those kinds of multiples where somebody had so grossly under valued
what they were selling or underestimated their market.
Years ago, I had a guy in coaching, Larry McIntyre; don’t know what
has come of Larry. Larry was in coaching and Larry’s business, most
of you have heard me mention it; Larry’s business was finding foreign
brides, helping American men find foreign brides. He came in for his
coaching meeting and describes the business, to give you a quick
frame of reference, the business has been around forever. If you open
USA Today, on any given day and look in the classifieds you are going
to find three or four ads. One of them is headlined foreign brides. You
will see three or four ads for these services. One of them is sort of in
the list business, they are pretty cheap, and thirty bucks, fifty bucks,
and five hundred bucks give or take. They basically give the guy a list
and now he mails and starts corresponding with them.
Larry’s business was a little more elaborate than Eddie; he had ground
troops on the ground in thirty five countries, screening the women.
The women entered the database for free. In his case they had to
speak some English, they had to be professed Christians, they had to
pass a health test, and they had to be good looking.
There are thousands and thousands of women in this database,
because they all want to get into the United States. The guys pay.
Larry comes in and describes the whole thing to us, I didn’t have to do
it but other people in the coaching booth started it. His price at the
time was $395. For this he screened the guy he got the guy in the
database and starts the guy communicating. When the guy finds some
he wants to meet, Larry organized his trips and takes them over there,
395 bucks. Everybody in the coaching group went, are you out of your
mind, I didn’t even have to do it. LaGrand probably had the most effect
on him than anybody, Ron you could have scraped off the ceiling what
he was hearing. He was screaming.
It is not like you are arranging a date here; this guy is looking for a
wife. This is like a big life decision here, 395 bucks. Surely they would
pay more than that. Larry says, well I compete with these other guys
and so now comes the list, most of my customers are blue collar
people, I compete with these guys who are on the highest price of
anybody already.
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You will hear that a lot, I am already the highest priced guy. What
does that have to do with anything? That’s not a test of the market.
We fussed and fussed with Larry and we finally convinced him to raise
his price. How much do you think I should raise the price, I will test it?
We don’t have any real basis for making a decision here so let’s do
something easy, let’s just add a zero. Then we don’t have to do any
complicated math.
We will make it $3950.
No difference in
conversions. The same story you heard this morning, no difference in
conversions, same number in leads turn into buyers, nothing new
added, nothing changed, just added a zero, that’s it, everything else is
the same.
Then we started doing some real work and find out where the
customers were coming from and who the customers were and narrow
the demographics and match the offer to the demographics. Then add
telemarketers, than add differential pricing, its $3950 if you get Larry’s
team working with you. If you want Larry working with you its $7995,
of course twenty percent of the people take the $7995 thing. Eighty
percent take the $3950 thing.
Who
Sets
Your
Price?
I have seen it again and again. What is the barrier to price? The first
barrier to price is you set your own price. Competition doesn’t set price
comparable, people let it, but competition doesn’t set price,
comparables don’t set price, experience don’t set price. What you
father sold stuff for when he ran the business doesn’t set price. The
most amount of money in a year doesn’t set price. Nothing has to do
with price except what you decide about what price ought to be a
whether or not the market place will respond to it when the market
place will respond to it when it is put in front of them.
When I came into the information products business, Nightingale
Conant was the gold standard of the business. Nightingale Conant
has a pricing formula, ten bucks a tape. Ten bucks a CD now, forgive
me. That’s their belief about price. Everybody else in the industry
followed them because they were the gold standard. Pretty much
everybody is selling stuff for ten bucks a CD. There is the standard.
My very first product, it was awful and I didn’t know squat. It was thirty
bucks a tape, why. No rationale, I will tell you why, I needed the sixty
bucks. Somebody asked on the dinner break about the Influential
Writing Workshop, how did you come up with that price? Actually he
asked how you justify the price, which I don’t.
The answer to the question is, it is really up to you, you are buying it. I
mean how you come up with the price. It is very simple, there is going
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to be twenty four people in a group, I won’t work for less than x amount
of dollars for that amount of time, we divide the dollars I got to have by
the twenty four people that is the price.
Don’t have anything to do with; I could give a rat’s patooty what this
seminar sold for, that seminar sold for, this guy is doing anything for.
None of that has anything to do with it. You set your own price and
only you and then you take it to market.
Guess what you will find; in most cases you will find there is a market
for almost every price. There are people paying $18000 for a pair of
shoes. Shortly before my father died he asked me what I paid for the
car I just bought, he said something crude, he said for that price it
ought to have a back porch and it ought to have, and I won’t tell you
the rest of what he said. That is his frame of what is.
We all have things that to us, what other people are paying for them is
just ludicrous to us, the shoe thing to me. I have paid a thousand
bucks for a pair of shoes. Eighteen thousand dollars for a pair of
shoes, handbags, women’s handbags. I bet you guys don’t even
know, I bet you have no idea.
It’s a damn purse; they are getting four, five, six thousand dollars for
these things. They don’t even have them locked in the glass cases
anymore, that’s the ordinary normal priced stuff, and it’s not even the
good stuff under the counter.
There is a market for it; price to market there is a market for just about
everything. You decide your price, you take it to market. You resist all
attempts by others to regulate your price. The sickest feeling is
recognizing the fact that you have been under pricing and underselling
all this time.
Two things happen simultaneously for Ron, when he discovers they
will pay thirty thousand he is very excited for about five minutes. Then
he spends the next fifteen minutes multiplying the twenty nine
thousand he didn’t get by the hundred clients that he had the year
before, which by the way is a lot of money.
How many years have you been doing this? We didn’t know who
knows until they ask. You got to understand price is primarily your
responsibility and your responsibility only. There is a market for just
about every price.
I will tell you about price with the few minutes we have left; that I think
is always useful to remind people of is that transaction size matters a
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lot. It matters for a lot of reasons and not for its gross differential.
Discovering that your transaction size can be thirty thousand dollars
instead of eleven hundred dollars is in it by itself a very big discovery.
From the standpoint of growing the business dominating the market
place, you just got twenty thousand dollars more than you can spend
divided between the experience delivered to the customer and the
market thing to get the customer. You can spend it all and be in the
same position you were in before.
If you cut it in half and you put fourteen thousand dollars in your pocket
that you didn’t have before you now have fourteen thousand more.
You can spend seven thousand dollars of it, upping the experience for
the client and making it an extraordinary experience. You can spend
the other seven thousand dollars marketing the thing and you didn’t
have that budget before.
Seven thousand dollars times a hundred transactions in a calendar
year is $700,000. We just created a $700,000 marketing budget and a
$700,000 client experience budget purely by changing the transaction
size. What happens, the experience is so much better, your reputation
shall precede you, the word of mouth will be so much better, and we
can turn around and change the price again.
Do NOT Miss
The Relationship
Between
Transaction
Size And Speed.
The $7,000 marketing budget allows us to do just about anything. The
eleven hundred dollar transaction size really restricts us. Speed, you
get to each million you want a lot faster in million dollar clumps then in
thousand dollar clumps. You get there even faster in thirty thousand
dollar clumps, like three times faster.
If you want to talk about speed, speed is often purely a function of
transaction size. It is a lot easier to make a million dollars as a copy
writer charging a hundred thousand dollars per gig then it is charging
fifteen thousand dollars a gig. Same gig, same amount of work, you
just get to the million faster, you are done by March.
Transaction size is really a very important thing. Even little bumps in
transaction size can be meaningful. Earlier we used the example with
him; twenty seven hundred see if they will pay thirty. Well they would
certainly pay $32,940, it won’t make any difference, but $2940 times a
hundred. Doesn’t make any difference to the customer it makes a lot
of difference to the seller.
Hardly anybody thinks that, they stop at the ninety cents, well if they
will pay $2.99 they will pay $3.49, probably won’t make any difference.
Go around Disney and take a look at the pricing. They have like $14.00
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for a cap. Why, because they have created an environment where
they have captive customers. They did certain things to set that in
motion to be able to sell a cap $14.00 and not have anybody grumpy
about it.
There is not any real mystery of what they do, you see what they do.
There is nothing that is invisible. I did this weekly fax last year; the title
of the fax is All Secrets Are Visible. They are, its just most people
don’t pay attention to them.
Money is not that mysterious it’s like visible what people do in order to
attract money to them. It’s just most people don’t copy the method,
and mostly because they have all this emotional nonsense going on
about it.
Last, let me talk about an interesting piece of emotional nonsense.
Then we will conclude for the evening. A lot of people pull their
economic punches because they are not liked. Where were you when
our conversation at the break of, on one of the breaks we had a
conversation with one of the IBA’s who has encountered somebody
who, and she wasn’t upset about it.
Somebody who she told them she used the Kennedy name and the
great reaction she got from this powerful brand that we have
developed through our prospect was, I know the Kennedy thing and I
think they are slimy. I said well, it isn’t going to be the last time you are
going to hear it. The aggressiveness causes that reaction from some
people.
The old Willy Loman Syndrome is want to be liked, this is Donnie
Deutsches quote, it is a constant throughout my life I have always had
people who don’t know me from a distance that I really don’t like that
guy. In the NSA market, where I did a lot of work, I would get that all
the time and I would gradually hear the same thing he heard at the
end, we wound up doing business, for years I never met you, I never
knew you, I didn’t really like you.
Do you worry about that or do you not worry about that? Money
doesn’t move to you because you are liked. Money does not move to
you because you are disliked by people. Money moves towards you
for other forces. There are a lot of reasons why you will not be liked. If
you focus on making a lot of money in business.
Here is one new kid on the block after we have been laboring at this for
years. There is a version of this in politics right now. If anybody thinks
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Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are jumping up and down for joy over
Obama, not happening.
A bunch of folks are not happy because they have been laboring for
the last thirty years and this kid has come out of nowhere and may
actually have a shot at the crown. They aren’t his biggest fans, not
happy. Who does he think he is anyway? How dare he get where
they want to be faster, but not pay your dues? They are all reasons of
why you won’t be liked.
The more visible you are, the more successful you are, the faster you
move, the more speed you create, the more money you attract to you,
the more you will get this from some people. Here is what is really
important about it; you are getting it from people who wouldn’t give you
money anyway, so what. They don’t matter.
Big thing culturally, is charging for what others give away. How dare
you do that? There is a cultural attitude in some associations, for
example, that you belong to. Where, because you are all members of
the same thing you are supposed to share. Everybody is supposed to
give everybody something for all their wisdom and expertise for free,
because we are all brothers in the same.
There is resentment when you figure how to make money from them.
If you spit on cherished treasures or icons, which you will probably
have to in order to, if you say provocative, critical, or offensive things,
which is a great way to attract attention. If you make demands on
money, even making a lot of money, lots of reasons for a lot of people
not to like you.
A lot of people worry about that, but the truth of the matter is
everybody doesn’t like you for all those reasons are people who will
not be giving you money anyway. So what? Their opinions do not
count.
The greatest attractant of money that I know of is immunity to criticism.
There is a great Abraham Maslow quote, sure you all know Maslow,
high achievers live independent of the good opinion in of others.
Remember we are in the business of dispensing gold stars. That is the
business we are in. The good news is its cheap currency because you
get to print it legally.
Decide To Be
A Superior
Being.
We are in the business of dispensing gold stars to others who need
them from us in order to feel good about themselves. It’s very
important not to be one of them, but to be the superior being that does
not gold stars from other people in order to feel good about ourselves.
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We are in the business of showing people ladders to climb, it is just
very important we that refuse to climb any ladders. We are in the
business of encouraging behavior on the part of other people that we
as the superior beings have to not engage in.
The greatest attractant to money is being completely independent
opinion of others. It liberates all the money to flow to you. All of the
stuff that you do that blocks money is all tied to trying to get the good
opinions of other people. Why don’t you charge more? Because
people will criticize me, think less of me, they might not like me,
somebody who needs my service may not be able to afford me. It’s all
about having the good opinion of others.
Everything we do to block money is about what other people will think
of us and what other people think of us, largely those other people who
wouldn’t give us money under any circumstances whatsoever. It’s not
trying to get gold stars from other people. As soon as you decide you
don’t want or need any gold stars from anybody else and you do not
care what they think of you and what it is you do.
The only people you care about are the people who are voting with
their wallets. You are liberated to do everything that attracts money to
you until you are where Maslow described. You will make decisions
about getting gold stars instead of getting money.
You will make decisions about trying to please mom, mother in law,
dead parent, neighbor, peer, peer group, peer association, employee,
etc, rather than about getting money. As soon as none of your
decisions have anything to do with getting gold stars, the good
opinions of other people, then all of you decisions get made for profit
reasons and everything else is out of the way.
It is like the ultimate liberation. It is all in here. Trump, Cindy was
telling me, and it was not the first time I heard it from a New Yorker,
Trump is like magnetic everywhere but in New York. New Yorkers by
and large dislike him intensely and universally say bad things about
him. He is not really a draw in New York. I don’t know it for fact but I
wager that the Apprentice ratings are at their lowest in the New York
market.
There is the hard to be a prophet in your homeland thing. It is more
than that. All the reason not to like people list, the New Yorkers have
decided not to like him for all of those reasons. If he had any concern
about it whatsoever, it would color all of his decision making and get in
his way.
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The representation of that is of course, the hair, I mean he has enough
money to fix it. The handling of the media, if there is ever a guy who is
immune to criticism, he pays no attention. In his hometown, he is
reviled everywhere else he is celebrated and he is magnetic to many,
he is not reviled by the people who invest money in the projects of his
size or the people who wish to attach his name to their project because
it is magnetic to many.
It is abundantly clear from observation that he could not care less
about others opinions about him, at least, unless they are giving him
money. We spoke at Kaller’s and he did a Q and A, that’s risky for him,
his reputation precedes him. He has a reputation, shall we say
temperamental and honest. He did Q and A, fifteen minutes of Q and
A at the end. I thought he was very gracious and genuinely attempting
to be helpful to people except one poor woman. She asked a
remarkably dumb question. There is a lot of way to handle that when it
happens, his was to say you have asked a remarkably dumb question.
Quite frankly it was a waste of your opportunity to ask me a question
and it would be a giant waste of everybody else’s time for me to
answer it, next question. He is being paid a lot of money to be there.
He could be concerned, client, audience, word of mouth. Not
concerned about any of that. Not concerned that he irritates her, not
concerned.
I spoke some years ago at a seminar where we did Hot Seats and I
reduced a woman to tears. It wasn’t my objective; I thought I was
being rather gentle. Everybody’s perceptions are different; she is out
in the hallway crumpled up against the hallway weeping with people
consoling her.
I don’t do boot camps that much anymore, but should you want me to
speak you might want to think twice about having me do a Hot Seat for
people. I was asked aren’t you, I said no. I feel bad for her; it wasn’t
my intent to do it. I don’t care what she thinks about me, I don’t care
about the people who think I am evil and nasty. I don’t care about that.
What I care about are the people in the room who are giving me
money. Who are coming and buying things and signing up for
consultant appointments. I don’t care about that. If she is going to
reduce herself to tears because of that, she wasn’t going to give me
any money anyway.
The four people out there consoling her and missing what’s going on in
the room weren’t going to give me any money anyway. The five that I
magnetically attracted like there was no tomorrow. The reason I
magnetically attracted them was for the same things that reduced her
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to tears. Had I been so gentle I would have not reduced her to tears
and I would have not attracted the five either.
I don’t care about, as a speaker, I outlawed the evaluation forms, I
don’t want them, never want to see them, never did want to see them.
Refused to let anybody I speak for use them for me, why. I don’t care.
Don’t you want to improve? I don’t want to improve. Maybe I want to
improve. If I want to improve here is what I am going to do as a
speaker.
I am going to go find somebody, who is really good at selling from the
platform, like Ron LaGrand, Tommy Hopkins and I am going to ask
them and if necessary pay them to evaluate me. Why, because they
are qualified to evaluate me. Their opinion I would value even if it was
critical.
The three hundred people in the room, they are qualified to do it, they
are qualified to buy something or not buy something. That is all they
are qualified to do at this point. The only real evaluation is who gave
you money. Nice remarks, bad remarks on an evaluation form; it is
free to fill out an evaluation form. All that matters is that you give me
money.
The biggest thing you can do for yourself, to be able to use all the
mechanical things we are talking about is work on this one thing, and
only one thing about your head. Understand that you are in the
business to expensing gold stars to people who need them in order to
feel good about themselves.
It doesn’t matter if they are CEOs of Fortune 500 Companies, whether
they make a million dollars a year or whether they make twenty five
thousand, it doesn’t make any difference. They need gold stars from
you to feel good about themselves. You are in the business of
dispensing them. You have to be completely devoid of need for them.
Otherwise you spend all your time chasing the gold stars and you
make all decisions about the gold stars. You worry about the decisions
you are making and how they will affect on whether you will get a gold
star. That is no way to make choices about business. Where I make
choices about mine that is the biggest single thing you can do for
yourself.
Next Session:
What I’m going to be doing this morning is a couple things. Number
one, I’m going to be talking to you about the 10 big lessons that I’ve
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learned from being in the coaching and consulting business, which is in
of itself, kind of scary that I’ve been doing this thing for 33 years and I’ll
tell you about that in just a second. Then we will spend about 15
minutes or so at the end of the hour if anyone wants to come up to the
table.
One of the things that Dan asked me to discuss with you is any kind of
structure questions. How do you structure things, specifically group
coaching sessions? If you have any questions, I know a lot of you, a
lot of people in the room here are either in my Info Mastermind group
or my VIP group, so you kind of have seen how I do the structuring
already and those of you who have been in Dan’s Platinum or VIP
groups in the past or VIP Millionaire, or whatever else he’s had, you’ve
seen how he does his structure. The structure of mine and the
structure of his are similar in fact.
To let you know just a little bit about my 33 years, in 1974 I first went
into the consulting business and, actually it is no surprise to all of you
in the room that my initial consulting was in retail, my expertise in
1974, believe it or not, was that I worked with retailers who were
liquidating their business. I was like the “hired gun” that worked with
them in their businesses and helped them to liquidate their businesses.
I did this through all the 70’s and the 80’s and I grew the largest retail
liquidation company in the mid-Atlantic area and really it was the lion’s
share of my revenue back then, more-so than my own retail business
was. I was the guy that came in that put up all the orange signs that
you see in the windows and all that other stuff and I actually also
turned this into a course where I had a “Seven Step System for
Liquidating a Retail Business” and I would have people come in, they
would hire me on different levels.
One level was that we’d come in and do the whole sale for them. On
another level, they could hire me on the lowest level. They could hire
me and come in, and I would teach them how to do it for themselves. I
did that through the 70’s and the 80’s.
In 1999, after actually having lunch with Dan in 1998 where I thanked
him for helping him grow my retail business, he was the one who said
at that time, “Bill, you’re doing such great stuff in your retail business,
you should be teaching this to other menswear retailers”.
By 1999, I started my BGS Marketing System and with the BGS
Marketing System, I provided then, and still provided today a very
painful one-on-one coaching for an hour. If you invest in the BGS
Marketing System, you get a certificate with me for a one-on-one for an
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hour which is very painful. Thank God very few people take advantage
of those certificates.
I also sell coaching through BGS Marketing. The way that I sell
coaching through BGS Marketing is that I do it on what I call a “Two
hour minimum.
I have a questionnaire and when someone requests the coaching call
with me, we send them out the questionnaire and they fill it out. They
tell me all about their business, and they tell me about their specific
marketing strategies. They send it to me, and I review that for up to an
hour.
That’s the first of the two hours. I then get on the phone and discuss it
for up to an hour. That is the two hours. I charge $1,000 an hour; it’s
a $2,000.00 minimum in order for me to do that for people. What that
does is a couple of things.
One is, when I get on the phone with them, they do not spend a whole
lot of time with me “getting me up to speed”. And usually that “getting
me up to speed” is very painful because they don’t know how to tell me
things.
The other thing it does, which is the second thing, is it prepares them
for how to deliver information to me. It’s a two hour process. One hour
I review it and one hour I am on the phone with them and that’s
$2,000.00.
Also, on the BGS Marketing System, if you open up your manuals on
page 193, you will see the sales letter that I wrote to sell a 6 month
tele-coaching program, which is now, this coming Monday night my 5th
month of doing that.
I have two more sessions to deliver, and you will see the actual sales
letter that I wrote in order to provide that. Dan might be showing you
some of these examples yet again today, but notice something
interesting on page 196 of this sales letter.
On page 196 of the sales letter, you’ll notice that I give a 100%
satisfaction guarantee on the tele-coaching program. This is the only
program that I have ever have offered in coaching where I have ever
given a money back guarantee.
The only reason why I provided it here was because of the fact that I
do not work very hard with my BGS Marketing System. I spend most
of my time with the Glazer-Kennedy Inner Circle, so my relationship
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with my BGS Marketing customers/members actually, is not as closely
knit as it is with my Glazer-Kennedy Inner Circle members, so
therefore, they do not know me as well because I don’t communicate
with them as much, so therefore I felt it was necessary to take away
any kind of reluctance they might have to join this program.
Actually, the funny story about this program is that this program was
actually forced upon me sort of, because Keith Lee, who is back
somewhere over in that area over there, I spoke at his event in Seattle
at the end of September of 2006 and I offered this program to all of the
people who invested in my marketing system then. I think we picked
up about 40 people roughly into that then, and I figured, well, if I’m
going to do it, I might as well put as many people on the call as
possible, so I went back to my BGS Marketing System members and
added another hundred and some people from my own membership
into this. If I was going to deliver it for 40 people, I might as well deliver
it for 150 people, so that’s the reason why you and this program exists.
The lesson that I wanted to share with you about this is the fact that,
depending on the relationship depends on whether or not you need to
add the guarantee. I had no guarantee in other programs that we’re
involved with, and I’ll show you the rest of them in a couple of
moments.
Also, with BGS Marketing, I also provide full one day consulting, which
is $10,000 for a full one day consult. I also, with BGS Marketing, have
in that company; have what I call my “retainer” clients. My “retainer
clients” are $5,000.00 a month, and I meet with them for a half of a day
per month. These are with corporations, large companies. I meet with
them, they come to me, and I spend ½ a day with them each month.
We basically go through what’s going on in their business; we develop
a task list of what needs to be accomplished between now and the
next time that we meet. They take that task list with them. That task
list is not for me, it’s for them. I have several of those clients. I have
three of them right now that are paying me $5,000.00 a month and
they are a ½ a day a month and they are what they are.
In 2004, as most of you know, not all of you but most of you have been
around for a while, know that I took over Kennedy Inner Circle, and we
immediately offered a level of coaching, Gold Plus Tele- Coaching,
How many of you in the room are members of the Gold Plus? Yeah
that’s what I would have thought. If you turn to page 180, you will
actually see the sales letter in there that provides the Gold Plus, Oh… I
said 180 but that must be a mistake, 178, now… I’m sorry it’s not...
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186, let’s try that. It helps when I put my glasses on. On page 186 it’s
called a letter of regret and this is a tele-coaching program that we’ve
been providing since 2004.
We now have about 460 members in Gold Plus Tele-coaching. The
investment for that is $240 a month. For that there is a whole list of
benefits in the letter that the people get. They get a group call with
Dan and I each month. Either it’s Dan and I, or most months we have
a guest expert on the phone with us. At the end of the call, we also
open it up for question and answer. We send out a CD of the call
afterwards, which is critical on a tele-coaching program, we send out a
CD of the call. You must do that, if not, you will have a lot of drop out.
We also add with that, a gathering once a year, where Gold Plus
members get to come together. Initially, it was designed in a way
where Dan and I put together a small program and you got to ask
questions of Dan and me.
What we actually have found by observation, we discovered that what
Gold Plus Members really want to do is get to know more Gold Plus
Members. So, we added a couple additional programs to that
throughout the year, where at our gatherings, people get up and
introduce themselves and then other people get to go seek out each
other and work out how they can network with each other, so that was
a very important lesson that we learned.
Also a lesson I think for many of you to think about is that a lot of
people in your programs want to be able to “rub elbows” with each
other as much as even getting to know you.
We also give them other benefits such as the Gold Plus inserts in your
news letter. We have special times that members can call in for the
Gold Plus Membership in order to ask questions for Dan and I
throughout the year and they also get the largest discounts on any of
our events.
Those of you who are in this room now, you got a larger discount by
virtue of the fact that you are a Gold Plus member. In most cases, for
people who attend our events, the membership almost pays for itself
just in the savings that you get from attending our events. So that is
how the program is structured.
Also with Glazer-Kennedy Inner Circle, I do some of the one-on-one,
two hour thing for the $2,000.00 fee. The problem with me for that now
is that there is about a 6-9 month wait before Sherrie can find an hour
on my schedule, so people are often asked to wait.
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Last week we got a phone call and someone said “I’m a Gold member
and I’d like to buy 15 minutes of Bill’s time, how much is that going to
cost?” So Sherrie called him back and says “you can’t buy 15 minutes
of Bill’s time”, which is another important lesson. You have to structure
what it is that you are willing to provide.
In my particular case, I used to sell an hour of one-on-one telecoaching and I actually found out that the two hours is a much better
way to go. First of all, it’s $2000 opposed to $1000 and secondly it’s a
much better call, because I’m preparing the client before they get on
the phone and I’m prepared before I get on the phone, so that’s a way
to structure those.
We also have on page 174, our two international now, Mastermind
programs. We have Info Mastermind, who here in the room is an Info
Mastermind member? So I have 5 of you in the room of Info
Masterminds and I’ve got our “VIP Program” who of you is VIP? I’ve
got 6 of you VIP in the room.
These are programs where we get together three times a year, in a two
day mastermind session. The basic format is, as long as I can ride and
herd everyone, everybody gets a turn, a minimum of 30 minutes,
usually closer to 45 minutes, and occasionally an hour if it is a really
big issue. They talk about what’s happened in their business since
we’ve met and what is working in their business, that’s the second
thing.
The third thing is what they want to pose to the group in terms of
challenges they have or questions they have or where they need help.
The last part is the largest amount of our time, but as you can imagine
when we talk about what’s working in our business, everybody’s ears
perk up so that they can figure out what’s working in your business so
that I can take it into my business.
Big breakthroughs happen here and looking around at the hands that
went up, I know all of you or just about all of you had big
breakthroughs, I don’t want to mention what they are, because you
may not want me to disclose some of your big breakthroughs, but
mostly everybody has close to a doubling of their business within a one
year period of time, so really very, very valuable types of groups.
As you can see, I showed you all the different benefits that are
included in there, so for those of you who want to figure out how to
structure a group like this, you can see what kind of benefits that we
provide. In our particular case, last year, we had about 100 applicants
that we turned away. There is a big demand for groups of this size.
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The next thing is, because we had such a large demand, on page 178,
you’ll see this is our newest program. This is the one we are doing
collectively with Lee Milteer, which Lee is back there in the room in a
teal suit.
We actually joined forces on this group and we are actually providing
two different types of structure in this group. One structure is that Lee
is a performance coach. Some people are constantly saying to us “My
biggest problem is that I don’t have enough time, how do I get things
done? How do I maximize my performance?” Well that is Lee’s area of
expertise, she is spending half of the time doing that and I am
spending the other half of the time tackling marketing issues.
There are about 75 people that are in that group and that is a group
that we still have a few openings. We actually have the sales letter
right here in the manual, so if you have any interest you can seek out
Lee on one of the breaks or Sherry, and they will be more than happy
to tell you a little bit more about that.
So that’s what my coaching and consulting business looks like,
generating somewhere around 3 Million dollars a year in business
coaching and consulting.
I’ve done this for some time now, and you can see how I’ve done it, so
I want to talk to you about what I’ve learned. Ten big lessons I’ve
learned.
The Ten Lessons
1
First of all, the vast majority of clients screw things up. That’s a real
big lesson that I’ve learned, and you’ve got to sort of understand that.
The reason why I tell you that is not because I don’t like clients or
members; it’s just the fact that you can’t allow that to affect you.
That’s a real big thing, because you have a real vision in your head of
how things are supposed to work or how they are supposed to go back
and do things. In most cases, they don’t do it the way that you had a
vision for them to do it. You just have to get past it, because if you
can’t get past it, you’re going to hate doing coaching and consulting. If
you take it real personal, it’s just not going to work out for you. I’m not
talking about the clients; I’m talking about you.
The truth of the matter is, as you’ll find out in just a few minutes, it
doesn’t really matter that the vast majority of them screw it up. First of
all, if the vast majority of them do something they are going to get a
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better result than if they had not done something and actually the other
thing you’ll find out in just a few moments is that there are various
reasons why people are in groups or have become clients.
2
Second of all you must get over the attitude that you are responsible
for their results, which kind of links number One and number two. If
they screw it up, you just can’t feel responsible for their results.
3
Then this is number three, which is what I talked about before, which is
the value of the client comes from three main sources.
Number one, the knowledge that they receive. It happens a lot, they
come into the groups and they pick up one idea and they take it back
and they apply that one idea to their business and it has a huge growth
to their business, and a lot of people are in the groups because they
are there for value.
Number two, the ability to show off. Not only can you not forget this,
but if you don’t allow it, you will have people become unhappy in their
groups. Some of them, not all of them have to have the ability to show
off. I’ve said this before, I’ve said this many times, being an
entrepreneur is one of the loneliness jobs in the world, because It’s
really hard to really share with other people what’s going on in your
business.
With your employees, if you’re showing off how well your business is
doing, the first thing that happens is they want to have a raise. That’s
like a terrible thing. They have really no place to show off, so a lot
people really need that and those of you that are in and here that are in
one of my groups, you know this is true, we have people in every one
of those meetings that are there just because they want a spot to show
off what is happening. And that is good, there’s nothing wrong with
that.
The third thing is that they need a place to belong. Which again goes
back to the thought that people are lonely? Where the hell are they
going to talk to anyone about what’s going on in their business? You
can’t confuse the two. Showing off is different from having a place to
belong. Some people don’t need a place to belong, but they need a
place to show off. Some people don’t need a place to show off, but
they need a place to belong and some people need both. A lot of
people, the best, are doing all three! And there’s nothing wrong with
that at all.
That is the three main reasons why people join your groups or become
clients of yours.
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Number four is that you can’t forget to constantly cover the basics.
That’s a real big thing about being in the coaching and consulting
business. What happens is that when you are working with clients,
either in a large format or one-on-one, you assume that because they
are in this relationship with you, that they understand everything that
happened to get them there. A lot of times they don’t, or they forget it,
or the basics are some of the things that generate some of the biggest
incomes to them. You can never forget to go back and to cover those
basics.
4
5
Value In
Questions,
Not Just In
Answers
Number Five is that a lot of the value that I bring is the ability to ask
questions and challenge different premises that they have. These are
actually two different things. This morning, Paul, where’s Paul? He is
in my VIP group this year, he is new to the VIP group this year and he
hasn’t yet had his first meeting. He said to me yesterday “do you mind
having breakfast with me”? “I have a few questions “. So I had
breakfast with him and he had a specific question about a situation
that’s going on in his business.
I don’t know if he even realized it or not, but I didn’t answer his
question. I asked him a question back which answered his question for
him. So basically my question was, he had an either/or situation and I
asked him “what would be your reasons for doing this”? And “what
would be your reasons for doing that”? And I kind of asked him the
question and he answered his own question.
That’s one of the biggest things you bring to the table is the ability to
ask questions and the other thing is the ability to challenge premises.
A lot of times with most entrepreneurs, and I’ve found this my entire
life, is that in most times when people are doing dumb things, if you
ask them why they are doing dumb things in their business, the most
common answer is “because that’s the way we’ve always done it.”
And you’ve got to get people past that. A lot of people just keep doing
things over and over because that’s the way they’ve always done it.
When I think back to my own retail menswear business, we had a lot of
things that we always did because we always did it. I needed often
times to have fresh eyes come into my business and say “hey you
don’t need to be doing that.” Those are big things that a coach and
consultant bring to a business.
6
Number six, and Dan mentioned this yesterday more emphatically than
I thought he would have mentioned it. The best way to get clients is to
speak.
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Whenever you speak, you can always get clients if you want to get
them. Dan and I are sort of in the “client repel” mode, we’re trying to
repel as many clients as possible right now.
If I wanted to, whenever I go and speak, I could just pick up another
half a dozen clients anytime because they just swarm you at the end,
they have questions for you, and if I wanted to, I could structure my
answers to my questions to lead to a client relationship if I wanted to.
In most cases, I don’t want to do that, but if you are looking to do that
speaking is the best way to go out and get it because you positioned
as the authority up there and they just gravitate to you and because
you are in the front of the room speaking you are positioned as
someone who knows something that they want to know. They want to
know that information.
7
Number seven is the more you charge, the more they value your
advice and implement. This is really good news for anyone in the
consulting business and you just have to remember that. I am kind of
guilty. I wish I could get into Dan’s mode on this. I can’t do what he
does. Sometimes when I’m out with a friend of mine that I care a lot
about and I see something really stupid, I like to mention it to them and
then I tell them how to fix it. That’s like really a bad thing to do.
First of all, it’s free advice and they value it as free advice and it means
nothing to them and it’s so hard for me to get past that. However, it’s
not good for them. It really is the kind of situation that the more that I
would charge them, if all of a sudden I changed it to a relationship
where I’m charging them $1,000.00 for this piece of information,
there’s a much better chance that they will listen to this information and
implement it. Not only is it a situation where you’ll be making more
money, if you want them to value the relationship and implement it
more you need to really charge more for it.
8
Number eight is another big lesson that I’ve learned. It can lead to as
much work as you want it to. If you are doing the coaching consulting
business, like my time is very limited right now, but if I wanted to do a
lot of copywriting work, every time I’m in a VIP Meeting or and Info
Mastermind meeting, people come up to me and say “Bill, I need this
sales letter, what’s your time frame”?, “what do you have available?” I
know the same thing happens to Dan, every time he’s in one of his
meetings, they are swarming him. They say “Dan I need 18 sales
letters for 18 different niches, I don’t care how much money it is!”
This can lead to as much work as you want it lead to, not only in
additional copywriter work, in my case copywriting, but any kind of
work that you want it to lead to. It could lead to speaking, if you want it
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to lead to speaking. It could lead to additional coaching or one-on-one
consulting.
Often times, people in my VIP and Info Mastermind groups come up to
me and they want to buy an additional day of coaching and in some
cases I am now making that available to them and as a matter of fact
I’m making them a priority in time so that they can actually see me for
that. So it can lead to as much additional work as you want it to lead
to.
9
Number nine is that you need to manage the length of the
arrangement. This is a biggie which I don’t know if I heard Dan
mention it yesterday or not, I wasn’t in here the entire time. I did have
to go to the bathroom two or three times yesterday, so I know I might
have I missed a few things he said.
Regardless if you want the relationship to go on forever or not, you
need to structure in a way that you can still exit that relationship if you
want to. So even if you are selling a program that just keeps going on
and on and on, you still want to manage it in a way that you could exit
it if you wanted to exit it. Let’s say it’s a large group mastermind
programs where you have 20 in the group and you are charging
$1,000 per month and it just keeps going on and on until they quit.
You may not want that person in your group indefinitely. Something
may happen to that person that no longer makes for that person still
being good in your group.
Certainly if you are on a client retainer relationship, and like I said I
have three clients right now on retainer that pay me $5,000. per month,
even with those people that every month we get a check from, $5,000.,
$5,000., they know that I have the ability to exit this thing any time that
I want to giving the parameters that I set up with them in advance
which in their particular case is 90 days notice. So, you want to be in
the position that you could end it if you want to.
10
Number ten is the other big lesson that I learned what authority is.
Authority is absolutely critical. Dan mentioned it yesterday with you, I
don’t know that he used the word authority, but he certainly mentioned
it in a way that the exact same point that I want to make to you.
They have to sort of understand that you are in control of this
relationship. They are not in control of the relationship and that you
have to have that authority over them. If you don’t have it, the whole
thing will go amuck. In particular, with the mastermind programs this
is vital.
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I know a lot of situations where people have lost the authority in their
mastermind programs and what happens invariably is that people start
splintering off into their own little mastermind groups and that is not a
good thing to happen when you’re in those kinds of relationships. You
have to kind of constantly have that authority in your groups when you
are doing those types of things.
Those are the ten big things that I’ve learned and I’m more than happy
if anyone has any questions to ask particularly about structure to
answer them, because we didn’t talk much about structure.
Question: I’m just starting a number of leveled coaching programs modeled
very much on what you guys are doing and I’d like to be able to make
some projections about how many people would be in each program
at each level, based on how many people come into the funnel. Do
you have any idea on how to do that?
Bill:
No because, I wish I had a better answer for you, but a lot of it
depends on the prior relationship. As I said to you, maybe I didn’t
make it as clear, the Glazer-Kennedy Inner Circle, it’s actually easier
for us to sell coaching and we have to provide less in terms of
guarantees because of strong prior relationship. Whereas with my
BGS Marketing System, since I sort of semi-neglect those folks, I don’t
have the same relationship so I have to work harder to get them into
the coaching and I have to give them more of a guarantee.
Now in your particular case, only because I know a little bit about your
business from the 3 ½ minutes that we discussed it in the back of the
room this morning, which is mortifying how Dave Dee was doing a
good job, or not that was not my intent. You don’t have a real long prior
history with these folks, so in your particular case, I would consider this
idea of giving some kind of strong guarantee. With that, it will make
the sale much, much easier.
The other thing I would tell you is this. With your different levels of
coaching, I would start out with a maximum of two. I would not give
people more than two decisions to make.
The other things you’re going to have to think about are what’s in A
and what’s in B? That needs to have a lot of thought go into that as
well. You probably want to make B as attractive as A, as attractive as
you possibly can, being B is the better one, the higher priced one, so
you have to figure out what’s in that and what’s in A.
Another thing that you have to be thinking about is “how do I send
people from A to B”? There’s a lot of thought that has to go into that
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program as well. Just to sort of peel back the curtain for us a little bit.
Due to there the huge wait to get into one of our national coaching
programs, the VIP or the Mastermind Platinum, we actually are giving
priority to people who are in Peak Performers to now get into that
program.
That is the way we’ve structured that program to make it enticing to
people, so that maybe eventually if I want to move up to that program.
There’s a lot of decisions that need to go into that and I hope that
some of this information gives you some help with that but there’s no
way that I can give you actual percentages without knowing the prior
relationship.
Question: Could you show some numbers for you guys showing how many you
have at each level, or is that too secretive?
Bill:
Well like I said, we have about 465 people at Gold Plus, we have 75
people at Peak Performers, I have 20 people in VIP, 22 people in Info
Mastermind and Dan has, he showed you yesterday it’s in your manual
the two different levels he has. In Platinum he has I think its called
group 1 and group 2 and combined I think it’s about 40 people give or
take at those levels.
Question: How many people are coming into the funnel at the free 798 or whatever
to get there?
Bill:
Very few, most of them, almost everybody, not everybody, but almost
everybody, we’ll send through Gold Plus. Gold Plus is usually the first
place, not all, but usually the most interested people. There are some
people that will scoot right in.
We had IBA’s. We had two of them that purchased an area that were
still in the three month free trial that invested in an area. So you do
have some people that just skyrocket to the top. I mean I had one
gentleman yesterday and he works with the doctor in the chiropractic
business. He was all over me in the back of the room, “Bill I wanna
join everything you’ve got.” So you’ve got people like that. They want
to move fast and they want as much of you as they can get. Most
people’s needs will be some kind of ascension model and the way your
would structure that ascension is that you always want to let people
know and reveal to them that there is something next waiting for them.
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Question: I got a business called We Buy Houses and it operates in countries outside
the United States and business is getting real big for us in the UK. For me to
fly to the UK all the time is getting really hard on my time, so what I’ve
decided is that I’ve got to start selling it off by having a few representatives
over there that charge 30, 40 or $50,000 a year to be a part of the whole
show.
I can get that sort of money in Australia, but people have known I’ve been
around for years, but I’ve got to go into the UK and just knock these people
over. To do that, do I have to do it off the back of a one day event or a two
day event? I’ve done the stage thing in London, and I buy $2,000 to 3,000 of
your package but heck it’s a really slow way to keep flying over there to get a
few people making big dollars. I want to get a few people in the UK making
big dollars and then they can license out under them. Is the best way to
capture those people off the back of a one day event? Do you see what I’m
saying?”
Bill:
Yeah, well, I mean it’s a good way, it’s not the only way, but certainly
going over there and selling them into this program is a good way. If
you do it, the one piece of advice that I have for you about it is that it’s
got to be sort of like The Secret discovered in Australia is now
available to the people in the UK.
Everybody likes to buy The Secret. When I went over to Australia and
spoke there, it was a big thing, because it was like people from the
United States were coming over there. We had four speakers that
were coming over there. This is something that you have to be
building on how successful this is in Australia and now this is available
in the UK.
The other model that would probably work well and may be less painful
to you, considering the fact that it sounds like you don’t want to do the
speaking, is to develop a UK partner that you can build the success
around his story.
For lack of a better terminology, find someone over in the UK that
becomes like your “super-franchise” for the UK and now he is the
person that is responsible to be providing all these area franchises
over there or area licenses or however you decide to structure that and
now you start to build the story on his back where now he’s discovered
you and it would be best if he actually does it himself and he has great
success to share. You are looking for a business partner over there,
but he also has a great story of success by using what he’s learned
from you and applying it to the UK market and now let him do all the
grunt work of going out and selling them as well.
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Question: So if I do that, and that’s one of the things I’ve had to discuss, what
percentage of the action do I actually give him because of market to the
UK. How much of the dollars do I give him and how much do I keep?
Bill:
Well that’s a discussion, I mean an impossible answer for me to give
without knowing all the economics and finances of your business, but
my short answer is as little as you have to. I don’t know how much
money is there OK
Question: I have two questions; one of them is about authority. You mentioned that
people may go and splinter off once they get to know each other. How
have you dealt with that or have you had to deal with that because it’s a
legit issue.
Bill:
Well, I never let it get to that point, because when you are in a group
meeting, a mastermind setting, you have to still make sure that you are
in total control of that setting and you just can never let it get to the
point where you are no longer in control of that setting.
For example, you have to have a very definite “This is what is going to
go on here”, “This is the program that is happening here and we’re
sticking to the program.” Because you have a program, and you’ve
developed that program, that in and of itself is a strong reason for
people to be fearful of leaving you anyway.
You are the one that developed the program, and every time Bill
comes or Marlene comes, she’s got something that she’s bringing that
only Marlene has ok? So if you’re answering the question specifically
to your mastermind groups in the IBA area, you have two things. You
have A- the Dan Kennedy story and the Dan Kennedy DVD’s and the
Dan Kennedy program for that day and then B-you also should be
bringing something that Marlene specifically brings to the table
something that you want to discuss. It might be a specific success that
you’ve encountered and you want to teach that to other people or
something that you’ve learned here and want to teach to someone
else. Each time it will be Marlene’s program and no one else will have
this.
Question: Well actually it was a general question because I know that people
drop out of masterminds in general after they have built a relationship
with other people and they feel they do not have to pay for that
anymore, so is that really a big problem or not really?
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Bill:
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It really isn’t, that’s a good question by the way, and in my judgment it’s
not only not a big problem, but it’s a good thing. I really think that if
every year there’s a 20% churn in your mastermind group it brings a lot
of new life and vitality to the group. I’ve been a member of the
Platinum group now, this is my ninth year and I’ve always enjoyed
when we’ve had new members in the group.
In my own coaching groups I love it when we get new people in the
group. You don’t want to have too many new people, because the
groups form a real bond and relationship with each other, but about a
20% churn is very good for the groups.
Question: Great and my second question is regardingBill:
That was two questions, this is your third question, and this is a bonus
question?
Question: Your bonus question is, in general, in the mastermind groups what is
the number one type of problem, is it technical stuff or organizational
stuff or marketing?
Bill:
Yes
Question: What is your number one thing that you find over and over, because I
find when I’m talking to people in the group, it’s not so much the
marketing but the organizational issues that they are dealing with that’s
what comes out eventually.
Bill:
I still go back to my original answer, “Yes”. I actually say it’s all of
them. I say they have marketing questions, organizational questions,
time management, getting things done. Those of you in the room that
are in parts of my group, wouldn’t you agree with that? We kind of go
through them all and it depends on the issues, which is a reason why
by the way that diversity in the group is really good.
You want to be a member of a group that’s in your “niche” and you
want to be a member of a group that’s outside your “niche”. When
selling the groups, if it’s not a “niche” group then that’s one of the
strengths to selling it. You have other people experiencing things in
other industries, getting things done and time management is
something that is not necessarily “niche” specific ok?
On speaking
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Dan:
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Countless speakers have been embarrassed by marching in, having
missed the speaker or speakers in front of them. They’ll have anything
happen from contradicting what the person in prior to them said, to
telling the same joke. If you want to fall flat in front of an audience, boy
that‘s the way to do it. You’ll see amateurs do it all the time because
they’re lazy. They’re out in the hall, they’re up in their room sleeping,
and they’re doing whatever it is that they’re doing.
If you watch pro’s, Super Conference Jim Rohn I think was probably in
the room the whole day prior to the evening he spoke. Zig was there
from the beginning. McCann came down from the very beginning of
the morning that he spoke and for the most part it’s not so much that
like Jim Rohn wanted to sit in the seminar for the day. At his age and
experience level, he’s probably done that enough. He wanted to make
sure that there wasn’t anything going on that he was going to get into
trouble or look stupid doing when he got his 2 ½ hours in the evening.
Just as a side tip, I find there’s not much risk if you guys like modeling
and copying what I do. Most of you aren’t real good at that, but you
know it occurs to me that if somebody is really good at it, they’re
probably going to model the thing that I showed them that they
shouldn’t do. So just as a tip, you want to at least hear the guy in front
of you, if not a couple guys in front of you unless you are very, very,
very certain of what they’re going to do.
In Bill’s case I know that there is no risk of us telling the same joke,
because he’s not funny. I’m pretty sure of what the material’s going to
be. Otherwise, you want to be up here first and you want to pay
attention. Also, by the way, the flip side of that is the positive. It’s
being able to build on what somebody ahead of you has said if you are
speaking.
You don’t want to derail a packed presentation that you’ve got, but a
sentence here or a reference there. That way, if someone has already
planted some “seeds” with them, like at certain Peter Lowe events I
didn’t change that presentation but for 10 words in 10 years, but it
made a difference if Hopkins was on before me or if Hopkins had not
been on before me.
Tommy only did about 1/3 of the events and I did all of them. I didn’t
need to go over and hear him, I know Tommy’s talk. But I needed to
know if he was there or not because then there were certain things that
I didn’t want to do and there were certain references that I wanted to
make back to what Hopkins had already said, because it allowed me to
build on something that had already been done by a credible authority
figure that they responded to and liked.
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If you’re out speaking, you don’t want to be out in the hall kibitzing.
You don’t want to get there two minutes before you go on. You want to
pay attention to who’s on the program ahead of you and if possible,
you’d at least want to hear who is on immediately before you. That
way you don’t do anything stupid or embarrassing and you have the
opportunity to do something smart.
When I used to do a lot of speaking and I used to care a lot about the
results. I was doing a lot of speaking at PMA conferences for
Chiropractor’s. A guy by the name of Dr. Pete Fernandez, who at one
time had probably the biggest coaching program anybody’s ever seen
with really a credible ascension and a percentage above base, which
we’ll get back to again when we talk about how you get paid.
Probably the funniest thing about Pete’s coaching program was the
ascension got to the “Knights of the Fernandez Round Table” thing and
Pete actually “knighted” them at the end of the events with a sword.
These are doctors by the way, remember, recognition.
I used to do speaking at a lot of those events and the last thing I
wanted to do was to go sit through the two days before I got there. I
tried to acquire the tapes and the CD’s and the products of almost
everybody who was a regular on that circuit and made a point of
hearing them or getting them transcribed and skimming them so that I
had a sense of what everybody else was saying to them again for the
same reasons one, you don’t want to look stupid and two, you don’t
want to get into a “spitting contest” with somebody if you can avoid it.
If his main ad guy is teaching everybody white space, it’s better that I
just avoid that issue if can and deal with it and I’m looking for
something I can build on to make my position even better.
A couple miscellaneous items before we pick up where we left off. I
wanted to say a few words more about the issue of deception by
omission or exaggeration. Let’s take exaggeration first because I had
hit on it yesterday and I was just asked a question about it by
somebody.
Let’s say you publish your schedule, as I mentioned that I did for many
years. There is a sample; I forget what page it’s on, but it’s almost
where we left off yesterday. I built a sample of my schedule for you. I
don’t do it much anymore, but for many years almost every week to
two weeks we were updating that schedule and sending it out to every
client and to prospects, waiting list people etc…ostensibly to keep
them informed so that they knew what was going on and when they
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might be able to get to me and when they wouldn’t be able to get me
and so forth.
Of course, it wasn’t done for that purpose at all. It was done first of all
to reinforce the facts on the short list. The most important one is that
Kennedy is busier than crap and it’s a miracle if you get to speak to
him at midnight three Thursdays from now and you should be happy
and grateful for being squeezed in at all.
It was done to reinforce the facts on the short list and it was done to
stimulate this list, both from clients, “if we’re going to get them to do
this other thing, we’d better hurry up and get them now otherwise we
won’t be able to get them at all”. It was also done to stimulate the
prospects as well.
I always had two versions of the schedule. I always had the real one
and I had the “embellished” one. So, a few clients saw a real one
when it was actually being used for the real purpose of keeping
someone informed of exactly what was going on and of course the
internal use for staff, key associates and so forth.
Now the embellished one, there was never a lie on it, if you look at the
one that I gave you, I’m not sure which page it’s on, you will find for
example say a day that you were going to hang out at the office at
home in your pajamas and you don’t really know what you’re going to
be doing on that day, but you don’t have anything booked on it.
You’re going to be in the office and you’re going to catch up on work
and you’re gong to be doing something. You’re going to be around but
who knows what you’re going to be doing because it’s three Thursdays
from now and you don’t have anything booked. Well, on the “Public
Consumption Schedule”, I would certainly never put “Today I don’t
know what the hell I’m doing” or “today I’m going to be doing nothing”.
I also would not put “open”.
I would always put “office work/copywriting for clients” or the closest I
would come to indicating that it was an open day would be “hold” or
“not yet scheduled”. Literally, almost every day of the calendar had
something on it and the busier it looks the better.
That’s not a lie, but it is deceptive. It indicates that there is more
scheduled activity than there really is. The perverse nature of
consulting especially, is that first, they don’t want you if you find them;
they only want you if they find you. That’s why overt direct marketing
of yourself is the hardest thing to do. Although, we will talk about ways
to do it before we are done here.
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Secondly, they pretty much only want your time if there is none of it
available. If there is a lot available nobody has any particular interest
in having any of it.
In the non-profit world, you may or may not know this, most non-profit
organizations will show you a pie chart of where your money goes.
Alright, an X percentage goes to this and an X percentage goes to that.
The law that governs non profits, first of all, is no where near as
astringent as the law that governs profits but there is some law.
The law allows them to put under education, which is always on the
wheel and its big section, so if you go get the Arthritis Foundation or
the Cancer Foundation or whatever and see their pie chart, you’re
going to see direct services and patient and consumer education and
that’s going to be a big hunk of the pie chart. Administration is going to
be a tiny part of the pie chart. It allows them to put in education any
direct mail or any other media that has one paragraph of copy directing
people to educational resources. So therefore, virtually all of the direct
mail to raise money, all that expense gets put in education. It doesn’t
get shown on the pie chart as money being spent to raise money.
All they have to put at the bottom of an eight page fund raising letter
one paragraph that says “If you have Arthritis, go to arthritis.com and
access these resources and 22 million people have arthritis and there
are four things you can do about it and there are six home remedies
that work and they are all at the website”.
That now qualifies the entire expense of the mailing to be shown as
education and not as fundraising. What shows up as fundraising on
the chart are only the things that you can’t legally show any place else
in order to minimize.
If you showed people exactly what was going on, 72 cents out of every
dollar is spent to get another dollar and only 28 cents is left and 14
cents of that is going to administration. If you reconstituted the pie
chart for what it really is and you look at it, you would think twice about
continuing to give money to XYZ foundation because administration is
like 50% of the money that’s left over after the money spent getting
more money.
The only thing that’s under fundraising is like the expense for an event,
anything that could be moved over to education. So if they produce a
DVD that’s all about raising money. Let’s say it’s about getting you to
leave money to them in your will. All they got to have to have on that
DVD is 10% of the minutes have to be direct education about how you
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can help whatever the condition is that they are raising money for, and
the entire expense of the DVD moves over to the education on the pie
chart. It doesn’t have to be shown as fundraising, advertising or
marketing. It allows them to show a much better pie chart.
It’s deceptive, it’s not a lie, and it’s not illegal, however the perception
would be very different to people giving money to these organizations if
we reconstituted the pie chart and didn’t have the liberty to do that.
Pretty much everybody in the non-profit world is OK with that.
In political fund raising, a lot people’s attitudes would be a lot different
if they knew two things about giving money to candidates. One is that
when a candidate quits, whatever money is left in his campaign
account he gets to keep tax free.
Everybody was sort of annoyed in the last presidential election, those
who supported him that Gore actually finished up and didn’t spend all
the money. Well that lies there now, in case he decides to do
something again. But eventually, if he decides to do nothing, it’s his.
So senators if they and a good incumbent, who if nobody serious runs
against them, if they don’t have to spend a lot of money getting reelected but they keep raising a lot of money, when it’s all said and
done they may have six to eight million dollars in their campaign
account. Well that goes in their pocket, so you may or may not like
that when you support a candidate. It’s not that anybody ever lies
about it, they just don’t tell you. Is it deceptive by omission If you put
that as a disclosure statement on every request for money.
Also, there is also no law about second party dealing. By that I mean
that my campaign for the US Senate can get all it’s printing done by a
print shop that my spouse owns. Thereby, the profit margin from the
printing is going into our personal account and we’re making all the
money being spent, running the campaign.
Now there’s nothing illegal about it, there’s no law against it, other than
the charges have to be reasonable and customary. The print shop
can’t charge $50 for something that should cost $5. They can charge
reasonable and customary fees with reasonable profits in it. If the
candidate gets a self published book done, and his brother in law owns
the book printing company, as long as the charge is reasonable and
customary the profit goes to the brother in law. Whom he has to
support anyway, so better he does it with public dollars rather than
private dollars right? So if that was all disclosed would people feel
differently? Yea, but it doesn’t have to be disclosed so it’s deception by
omission, by non-statement.
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Everybody draws their line about all this stuff situationally. Everybody
has a moving line. Anybody in here that says they have a permanent
line or anyone who tells you that they have a permanent line, they
don’t. They make these decisions as you go, and we all do make
these decisions as we go.
Bill tells you that they decided to sell you the CDs last night and printed
up the order form in the dead of night because everybody would want
it. Now that happens probably to be absolutely true, there was
probably was no advanced thought to this, but would it matter if there
was? Well you have to decide that for yourself, from both sides of the
equation. Would it matter if there was a gambit? Does it really matter?
It might matter in effectiveness, but does it matter to the end user that
would be getting the CDs.
It’s like a tele-seminar and re-played and pretended to be live and the
people believe that it is live because more show up that way, but it’s
not live. Is that deceptive? Obviously it’s deceptive. It can be blatantly
deceptive, it can be deceptive by implication and assumption, it can
deceptive by omission, but it’s deceptive.
What’s the end result? Well the person on the line has the exact same
result as if it the tele-seminar was live. They think it’s live, it sounds
live and it behaves live and people get to ask questions, and they are
pushing the star button and they just don’t get through.
They have entirely the same experience as if you did it live. So is
there any harm? No, if they buy from it, were they cheated or
defrauded in some way? No, because if they had bought from it live,
the end result is the same. They get the same stuff they paid the same
price, they get the same value out of it, whatever value they would go
get out of it, but in theory, the only truly non-deceptive thing to do
would be to fully disclose that this is not a live tele-seminar and
everyone should know that it’s a pre-recorded tele-seminar, recorded
322 years ago, the guys dead, and obviously you could hear the hang
ups all across the country, click, click, click, click, click, click because
everybody left, so just a little bit about that.
The second thing I would say is it’s important to understand that
everything that’s talked about here has to be applied differently in
different situations. You have to give some careful thought and not just
run off like a bull in a china shop, especially if you have something
that’s working and just change it all because you sat in a seminar for
two days and you heard an example. You really have to think these
things through.
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For example, there is a difference between local versus national, there
is a difference between “niche” versus “non niche”. In the case of the
IBA’s who are in the room who are running local chapters, that’s really
sort of a catcher or point of entry device and you’re behavior as a
chapter president and running local “feel good” meetings has to be a
little different than your behavior running the “coaching” meeting where
people ascend and are paying serious money and are behind serious
doors. This is just sort of a basis for thought about “now what should I
do in my situation, with my people and in my circumstances?”
It is not like Moses coming down the hill with the 11 commandments
and everybody is supposed to follow them literally. Everything has to
be considered in the context of your particular market, your particular
clientele and your particular fee structure and so forth.
More On...Getting Clients
With all of that said, let’s sort of pick up where we left off in the getting
and attraction of clients. We were right after mole hills into mountains.
If you flip over to page 55, that’s approximately where we were, and
we’re going to go all the way through getting clients and we’re going to
talk about getting paid, financial compensation structures. Then we’re
going to go through all the rest of the documents and samples and so
forth of things that I have to show you.
Who is
talking
about you
today?
Every
day?
If you are on page 55, Keith Oberman on MSNBC, the count down
show, starts every night with the 10 stories they are going to talk about
click, click, click, click, click and the voice over is “which of these
stories will you be talking about tomorrow?” It’s a very good question.
Which part of you are people going to be talking about tomorrow?
Because if you are not being talked about continuously, good or bad by
the way, better if it’s more good than bad.
For example again, we watched the news last night, so think back to
the beginning of that segment where what’s that actor’s name? is now
telling the comedian, very underrated actor, Jeff Bridges, so Jeff
Bridges is telling the other guy about her. That’s exactly the way you
would want somebody telling somebody about you. That won’t happen
by accident. It has to be planted. If she’s got like 10 people telling that
story to somebody that week, she has no marketing problems. She
has no client getting problems. You have to be continuously talked
about amongst your clientele. You have to be the topic of interest and
speculation and curiosity and blabbering and you have to be talked
about in your market.
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There are, I never go to them, occasionally someone will download
something and send it to me, but, there are chat rooms where people
will go and talk about Dan Kennedy. On one level it’s sort of sad and
pathetic on one hand it’s sort of like in the “get a life” category” you
know?
For example, Paris Hilton who of course makes all her money by being
Paris Hilton and no one should miss the lesson of that, the current
going rate for example to have Paris Hilton at your party for two hours
is $125,000. She is sometimes doing two a night. See now where I
was going to go is that you can get Anna Nicole for less money now
that she’s dead. See, both your remark and mine would be better off
not said.
Anyway, think about this. She is getting paid large sums of money for
who she is. There are at last count, over 300 different web sites where
people go to talk about Paris Hilton. Some of them are very negative
and critical and nasty. The sites about the ten worst celebrities and
their behavior this week and others are fan club type sites and
everything in between, but her elevation to a form of stardom and
certainly able to make a lot of money by being Paris Hilton is all about
being talked about.
The lunatic kid, what’s her name, Britney. In case you didn’t notice
she’s been in the news for the last three days non stop because she
did her one day in rehab, which is an all time record. But it suggests
some business. Rehab in 24 hours or less. “We bring you in, we fix
you and you get your ass out because you got to go make a movie”.
I’ll bet you could charge more than that than six months of rehab
because you get them in and out in a day and you only have to feed
them three times. She has shaved her head and has gotten tattoos all
over her head. Now I don’t know about the long term strategy of all
that, but she’s the only thing being talked about on CNN.
When I clicked on CNN last night, ahead of the story of the North
Korean nuke negotiations, which might actually like affect us, I mean
look, I remember being under the wood desk you know, doing the drill
which you know, Louis Black’s routine about that is great. That’s the
first time that you realize that all adults are morons when you’re a kid,
right, is when they are putting you under a wooden desk to protect you
from a large flaming orb object that is going to descend upon the
building.
Ahead of the North Korean nuke story is Britney shaving her head and
getting tattoos. What’s everybody talking about? Britney shaving her
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head and getting tattoos. What does that do? Drives more people the
Britney talk Web sites, sells Britney CDs, sells Britney records, sells
Britney T-shirts. So, being talked about is a very important thing. And
it is a big part of this business. Forgive me with names, but the
gentleman that was just up asking questions, with the funny accent.
Where are you? There you are.
He was talking to me on the break and he’s become the celebrated
real estate guru in Australia with a 50% mix of really good press and
really, really, really bad press. The evil predatory guy bringing these
rotten, sneaky tactics from the United States and stealing people’s
property for no money and teaching people how to be pirates and on,
and on, and on, and on, and on, right?
Remember our rule? Speak when spoken to. Remember? You gotta
keep him in…he’s like Tyson, you have to keep him in a little box and
let him out once in a while, let him do something; put him back in the
box.
We have a client years ago who 60 Minutes did just this huge hatchet
job on. I mean it was just a massacre, because of course, the fool
thought he could handle them. So he spent all week with Mike
Wallace. They taped thousands of hours of crap, which they then
edited down into 20 minutes of slaughter. And he’s in a niche, so I
mean it is ugly. The day afterward, it was pre-Internet so it didn’t
spread as fast. You couldn’t jump on and everybody e-mailing
everybody. But still, the phone lines are buzzing. He’s in a niche of
maybe, at that time, 35,000 people, so literally, if everybody talks to
three people pretty soon everybody’s talking about it, right? The
clients are calling.
So there was about a week of real, true ugliness. No appreciable
losses that you could directly track to it, but real, true ugliness. By
about a month later, the reaction is, “Oh yeah, we saw him on 60
Minutes.” Two months later we’re using it in the ads. “As seen on 60
Minutes.” Now, we’re probably the only people in the world who got a
cease and desist letter from 60 Mintues for using, “As seen on 60
Minutes.” In whatever.
Nobody remembered anything except that he was on T.V. Fabulous.
They know show, they know T.V., they know him, and he’s a celebrity,
right? We’ll use it. Better that you should be talked about in a positive
way, but better to be talked about than not talked about. And you try
and stimulate it and control it as best you can.
How to be talked about
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Some of the ways that you can make sure that you are talked about
are on this list. You can, and this is especially appropriate to those of
you who work in niches, but you can attack and criticize the status quo.
There is always some status quo that everybody pretty much thinks
are a bunch of idiots, or are evil, or are somehow their enemy. With
salespeople, it’s the home office. So as long as you’re not getting your
money from the home office, you can constantly attack the home
office.
All of the idiots in the ivory tower back at Corporate Headquarters who
are spending all of their time going to lunch and dreaming up stupid
crap for you to do. See, that resonants with salespeople. A lot of
people don’t remember, but Jay Abraham used to run this campaign
niche-by-niche. It was a very good campaign, I swiped it and applied it
in different ways and it was, “who is this man and why is he saying
these terrible things about life insurance companies?” And he would
run that in the life insurance trade journal. “Who is this man and why is
he saying these terrible things about real estate?” And then he would
make fun of the corporations and how stupid their advertising was and
how stupid their marketing was and how the agents were suffering
because they had to put up with all of these morons and that
resonants. So you can attack and criticize the status quo.
God knows how many millions of dollars, directly and indirectly, I have
taken out of the tiny, little market of the National Speaker’s Association
by spending all of my time criticizing the National Speaker’s
Association.
Now, I haven’t made many friends on the Board from year, to year, to
year, but it is a very popular thing to do with a segment of the
Association, specifically the people I want out of it, which are those that
think like businesspeople and are already frustrated. You don’t have to
be around there very long and go into meetings and stuff if you are a
businessperson before you realize that 70% of the folks are clueless.
And now you are frustrated, just like Buster Crabb was. Well, I track
those people like a magnet by criticizing the entire culture of the
Association.
So for 20 years I’ve made fun of their certifications, and their award
thing, and it’s easy, because the thing is ridiculous. But simply by
banging away at that, I’m talked about, I’m reviled by some and I
magnetically attract others.
I always made a point, when I was working the niche heavily for
example, to do some kind of major mailing, about four to five weeks
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before the National Convention, in which I made all sorts of annoying
and critical and provocative statements. Then I would show up at the
convention and make sure I’m walking around very visible. I would
usually work during the sessions and then came down on the breaks.
The opposite of what everybody else is doing, right? What’s useful to
me is being accessible on the break and just let them find me. Right?
And here they come, boy. You hit it right on nail. They are all
businesspeople, which is exactly who I want. You can attack and
criticize status quo and attack and criticize popular enemies.
You can be a crusader. Gore has reinvented himself very effectively.
To give credit where credit is due, he’s gone from irrelevant to very
relevant in a very short period of time, by essentially turning his back
on the traditional political channels and circles and all of that. And
picking an issue and crusading like the Ralph Nadar of old and
appealing to the liberal segment of the entertainment community.
We’re going to see him get an Oscar, foregone conclusion. The odds,
by the way, you’ve got to give two to get one. It’s one to two, the last
time I checked where you can bet it legally in London and I bet it, so
you’ll know if I did well. So I have a little money on it, one-to-one and
got a little money on it at one-to-two. By little, I mean little to me, not
necessarily little to you. I think it’s a pretty good investment.
You do know, by the way, that you can bet on anything legally in
London? They’ve got odds on everything. From day-to-day current
event stuff, you can bet. You can bet who’s going to be ahead in the
Presidential poll next week. You can bet that now, if you want to, by
how many points they’re going to be ahead. If you like to entertain
yourself, you can do that.
You can get yourself attacked. See, a lot of people think that’s bad,
but it’s not bad. Not necessarily bad. It is okay to be attacked by
somebody that calls attention to you and to the people you want, who
will like the fact that you are being attacked and they will respond to
you being attacked, and in a big public way. Think about Atkins. In 30
years, I don’t think Dr. Atkins got one piece of favorable p.r. anywhere.
He made his entire living and built his entire company by freely going
anywhere he was invited. Talk shows, university lectures, medical
conventions and letting them all attack him. Atkins got bigger, and
bigger, and bigger, and bigger, and bigger. And the more the medical
establishment attacked it, the bigger it got. Why? Because there is a
bigger segment of the American population that doesn’t like the
medical establishment than there is that likes the medical
establishment. There are more people who think M.D.s are wrong
than trust M.D.s to be right.
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So, if you’re going to be attacked by somebody, get attacked by the
M.D.s. Atkins was very good at it. He just sat there and took punches
for 15 or 20 minutes and then said, “Well, yeah, but look, Mary lost 238
pounds. Billy Bob lost 148 pounds. She lost this many pounds. How
can you argue with that?” People went and bought Atkins’ stuff. The
brand got bigger, and bigger and bigger, and bigger. So you can be
attacked.
You can have a scandal to talk about. Larry King, who was at Peter
Lowe events all the time. I used to say, “Larry, there’s got to be a slow
news day sometime, ya know? Where nothing is happening and
you’ve got no guests, I’m available.” Larry would say, “Easy, you can
be on the show tomorrow, just kill your parents.” Think about it?
Somebody who is involved in a scandal. Usually they temporarily look
bad. If they are handled well, often they turn out okay. Dick Morris
goes from a poorly paid employee to a highly paid pundit and author.
People have forgotten all about the toe sucking prostitute thing, letting
her listen to the conversations with Clinton on the phone. That’s all
gone. But, it made him famous. Then he went away and did political
consulting for a year in Australia, I think, and then he came back and
he’s big. At a certain level, scandal fascinates people.
That horrible Mel Gibson movie that otherwise nobody would have
gone to see, with the Amazon whatever that thing is, actually did better
after his arrest for his anti-Semitic remarks than it could possibly have
done without all of that p.r.
The best one is the Trump-Rosie deal. Both benefit. I doubt they
cooked it up because I think they genuinely dislike each other, but if
they had cooked it up, it’s brilliant. I mean brilliant. He starts it a week
before the new season of The Apprentice. A whole week before the
new season of The Apprentice, that’s all anybody is talking about. The
two of them fighting with each other. Where did he get most of the
coverage? On a rival network, who would never have promoted him or
The Apprentice, ABC. They aren’t going to put him on their shows the
week before The Apprentice is premiering, but Good Morning, America
had him on to ask him about the Rosie feud. Every day on The View,
she’s talking about him. He was on ABC World News. He was on
ABC everything, The Jimmy Kimmel Show, he was everywhere. He
wouldn’t have gotten on those shows without that feud. There are lots
of ways to get yourself talked about and the most important thing about
it is it needs to be continuing. If they are not talking about you, what
you ought to realize is, they’re talking about somebody else.
This even goes to Marlene’s question. It’s a broader answer to your
narrow question. I believe either the second or the third of your six
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questions when you were up here. There is a lesson to be learned
from her. She ain’t shy, you know? She’ll take what she can get.
Pushy is good. Especially for women. Pushy broads do better than
non-pushy broads.
Part of the answer to your question is, which your question was, “What
about them leaving Mastermind groups and splintering off and forming
their own groups and thinking they don’t need you.” And Bill’s answer
was a pragmatic answer, which is a correct answer and a correctly
pragmatic answer. It is to make sure that parts of what happens at
every program you do are connected to you directly, or directly linked
to you, or about you, or being provided by you, so there is some
portion that obviously can’t be replicated somewhere else. There are
people that have this problem. An information marketer that I won’t
mention has had four in the last two years, otherwise very successful
at it, but has had four different people go splinter and take people out
of his group and form their own group and, “why should we pay for this
now, we can all get together for free,” kind of thing. And they can.
They can all get together for free except not with him. Over a period of
time they’re coming back. They’re leaving the doofus who led them off
into the winter land and they’re coming back.
The bigger, broader answer to this, layered over top of the pragmatic
answer that Bill gave you, is that again, keeping them is about a lot
more than the core values of what they’re getting from the thing, by
being in the group. Keeping them is as much about their on-going
interest and fascination in you, in general. If it’s you they’re all talking
about and they leave you, now what are they going to talk about? You
have to have them perpetually interested in you and what you’re up to
and what you’re thinking and what your opinions are and, “Oh, what is
she going to say next,” and all of that. Then they won’t go away. Even
if the thought occurs to them, they won’t go away.
Here are some examples of strategies to be talked about. Number
One: Do out of the ordinary things. Vacationing in China is much
more interesting than vacationing in Dubuque. Now, Matt has other
reasons to go to China, but since he has reasons to go to China, he is
able to use it and uses it to the hilt, because most people don’t go to
China. That immediately is a very interesting thing. Every year, for
two weeks, while Matt’s in China, what everybody is talking about is,
“Matt’s in China. What’s he doing over there? What’s he going to
bring back?” Everybody is e-mailing each other. Matt’s in China. I
don’t talk to him much, I don’t work with him directly, I obviously don’t
get any e-mails, and I somehow know when he’s in China. Why?
Because people are telling me, “Hey, ya know, Matt’s in China again
for two whole weeks.” I mean, if he was in L.A., so what. Right?
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Yanik Silver has this adventure thing. He’s forking over the money to
be one of the first one hundred that Richard Branson shoots up in
space in a rocket. I don’t know when that’s going to happen, but it’s
like, not next week. It’s relatively cheap money, because you’re
probably going to get to talk about for two or three years before it
actually happens.
In Platinum we’re all going to kick in $500 a piece and buy a life
insurance policy. If he’s gotta go, you know, I mean, he’s gotta go. My
idea was that he do that for his next boot camp. That your bonus with
your Early Bird registration is you get 1/10th of the life insurance policy
he takes out on himself when they blast him off into space. Everybody
can come and watch the launch and some will hope one way and
some will hope the other way, but whatever the outcome, it’s good. He
didn’t care for the recommendation, but I thought it was clever. Take a
chance. I think that would be $175,000, I think that’s what that is.
$200,000? Okay, well, I think you’ve got him down to $175,000, so
there is room to negotiate. I’m pretty sure he’s paying $175,000,
between you and I.
But either way, one thing to know is that a lot of people blanch at
$175,000. Just like at $75,000 to hire George Foreman, or whatever.
You’ve got to think long and hard about those kinds of numbers. I’m
serious. In this case he’s probably got a two or three year run-up
before this happens, so really, let’s say it was $150,000 so I can do
easy math, and it’s three years before he shoots, right? Really, he’s
paying $50,000 a year for this thing. There are going to be some
Richard Branson parties and crap that they get to go to along way, I
mean there are some perks to all of this. There are some events and
there are pictures with Branson and there are pictures of the rocket
being built and all that. This is probably really cheap money, because
this is a way to get talked about in his universe again, and again, and
again, and again.
Horse racing is more useful than if I played golf. Especially the way I
play golf. Last time I played golf I knocked myself unconscious. That
is a true story. I’ve got a really bad slice and no loft so when I drive,
the ball is this far off the ground. But not like that, it’s more like over
there. I’m no good at this, and my drive go about three feet. I can putt
like crazy, but I need a designated driver.
I’m out on this golf course and I’m absolutely determined to send this
ball somewhere. I wind up like Babe Ruth and I hit this thing with
everything I’ve got and the next thing I know I’m looking up at
paramedics. The ball goes this far off the ground, at an angle, into one
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of those little metal signs that say, “Golf Cart Crossing,” and hits the
metal sign, comes back off the metal sign, nine hundred miles an hour,
right into my head. Boom! I’m down like a rock. I wake up looking at
the paramedics. I said, “Jeez, Doc, what’d you think?” He says, “I
think you’ve got the worst slice I’ve ever seen in my entire life.”
Horse racing is more useful to me than playing golf, because lots of
people play golf. Hardly anybody sits in a golf cart and races horses.
It’s more useful. Now, it so happens that that is what I want to do
anyway but, since I do it, I want to use it.
The Yanik thing, well, Yanik wants to do that anyway. It’s something
he really wants to do, but now it’s tax deductible. Just to do it for fun, it
isn’t. The $175,000 is really only costing him $120,000, something like
that because he’s in the top tax bracket. There is a little side fringe
benefit to this, too.
Do out of ordinary things and any time that you do, make a big deal out
of them. The photograph of me on the bull. I think it cost me when I
had it done, it cost me like $5,000, between the money to rent the bull,
and the money for the photographer, and the drugs for the bull.
Courageous I are not. It’s a million dollar photograph, easy. Maybe
more, because in part it’s a weird and strange thing. Of the ten most
common questions I get, probably one of them was always about the
bull. From strangers, from clients, from people.
We had a lot of first-timers at the L.A. Seminar in December of last
year. There were lots of new people and questions about the bull from
everybody. “Do you own the bull?” “Is the bull in your backyard?”
“What’s the bull’s name?” “What kind of bull is that?” It’s a big, white
kind. “What does that bull eat?” “How did you get him to stand still for
the picture?” On and on and on. It would be better if they used their
time and their opportunity to ask me a useful question, but from my
standpoint, the bull thing was brilliant. Ordinary picture, standing next
to a Mercedes, standing next to an airplane.
Lots of people do that. How many people have a picture of themselves
sitting on a bull? Not too many. I ripped that right off from a car
dealer, that’s where I got the idea. There’s a guy in Phoenix, Tex
Ernhart, who has owned car dealerships for years and sits on a bull.
He copied Cal Worthington. If you go back far enough to Cal
Worthington. Tex Ernhart’s sign-off on his T.V. commercials was, “And
that ain’t no bull.” In Phoenix you saw it 6 million times a day. It was
implanted into my subconscious. It has been a million dollar picture
because it’s unusual. Do out of the ordinary things.
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Make known your eccentricities. Back to the list of facts, one of the
things people know about Sam Walton, and this was more important a
few years ago than it is now since Sam is gone, is that Sam never left
Bentonville, Arkansas, drove his old pick-up truck, went down and ate
at the diner, had breakfast with the boys, just like he always had no
matter how much money he wound up with. Well, that’s odd. It’s also
only partly true. Yes, he had the old pick-up truck and occasionally he
made sure he was seen driving it. He had about 20 other vehicles,
too, that weren’t old pick-up trucks. Occasionally, he went and had
breakfast with the boys, but it wasn’t like he was down there daily at
the diner in the pick-up truck. That’s what people had in their heads
and that’s what they talked about when they talked about Sam Walton.
That was useful to him.
Warren Buffett. Amongst the things he’s known for, he may be best
known for his refusal to invest in any tech stocks. That’s an
eccentricity, especially given his connection to Gates. It works
because we know it about him and because it is rather strange. Be
associated with famous or fascinating people. We’ve talked about that
and we will come back and talk about it.
Pick a public fight. We’ve talked about that. Trump learned a lesson
from the Rosie thing. She’s picking one a week, so is he. He’s figured
out this strategy works a lot. He’s picked a big fight with the city of
Palm Beach, Florida over his flag, which is a really good thing to pick a
fight over, by the way.
Question: Did you see him last night on World Wrestling?
Dan:
No, he was on World Wrestling last night?
Question: He was picking a fight and went up there and they are shaving their
heads, supposedly, with a fighter.
Dan:
With Vince McMahon? Yeah, there’s another useful thing, with you
mentioning that. What he mentioned was that Trump was on World
Wrestling last night and he’s picked a fight with Vince McMahon, the
guy that owns WWF and one of them is going to shave their head, or
something, as a result of all that. If you don’t watch World Wrestling,
none of us saw this, right? You might think, “What the hell is the
benefit of him with the wrestling crowd.” You would underestimate the
size of the wrestling fan base, number one. You would underestimate
it’s demographics, because it is not all a bunch of yahoo people who
live in trailer parks anymore. It once was that, just like NASCAR once
was that, but it is not that anymore. By the way, do you know what the
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fastest segment of the NASCAR fan base is? Gay men. Somewhat to
the consternation of the original fan base. The fastest growing
segment of their fan base is gay men. Second fastest is women.
Trump is absolutely right to be there because he’s reaching an
audience that includes some of the people that would normally be in
his audience, but also includes a whole bunch of people who might
normally not pay attention to him.
Trump’s money today is not very far afield from Paris Hilton’s money.
The lesson there is that our money is not very far afield from that
either. Trump’s money is tied to being Trump. Not to real estate
development. That was a decade ago. Now, Trump’s money is from
being Trump. The more Trump is Trump, the more money Trump gets,
because they give him points to stick his name on a project, for
example, front end points. Everybody else gets five points, he gets
eight points. He gets more famous and he gets ten points, then he
gets more famous and he gets 12 points. An extra point is a big deal
in a 500 unit high rise condo project in the Bahamas, that’s a big deal.
It’s all about being Trump. He’s out there humpin’ every place he can
be. A lot of places we don’t see him unless you watch that thing. I
don’t watch wrestling so I don’t…
Question: How could you miss it? It’s been on T.V. all week.
Dan:
Millions watch it and now some of them, who’ve paid no attention to
him before, are going to start paying attention to him. Now, they are
going to go watch The Apprentice. Then, when there is a seminar ad,
they’re going to go the Learning Annex Seminar, when they wouldn’t
have gone before, on and on and on. Pick a public fight, but pick a
good one.
Perform amazing feats. The guy who was really good at this, he’s
pretty much retired now, and a lot of people have copied him cleverly,
is Kreskin. Kreskin, who made money by being Kreskin. Speaker,
entertainer, etc. The Amazing Kreskin. How many remember him?
Okay, so Kreskin, like a mentalist, what would you call him, Dave? A
mentalist. And Kreskin’s amazing feat, which he did at least twice a
year on Regis for as long as…when Regis was on in L.A., he was on
Regis and Kathy, Regis and Donna, and Regis and whoever is sitting
next to Regis at the moment. Kreskin’s amazing feat is to come on the
show, they’ve hidden an envelope somewhere in Manhattan, and they
go find it. Over and over and over again. Kreskin had this routine that
you saw him do something amazing. You have Blaine now, who is
really sort of following that model in their field. Paul Hartunian, most of
you have seen Paul’s stuff. What is Paul’s claim to fame? Whenever I
write copy about Paul, what do I use first and foremost?
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This is the guy who really sold the Brooklyn Bridge. That’s like a joke,
but he really sold the Brooklyn Bridge. He went and got a bunch of
wood, cut it up in little pieces that came from the bridge and sold it.
We could say, “He really sold the Brooklyn Bridge.” That was an
amazing feat. I think when he did it, he actually did it to make money
actually selling the wood and wasn’t thinking much further than that. It
ain’t really a hard feat to replicate. Somebody is knocking down
something somewhere everyday.
Robert Allen, the real estate guy. For many years Robert Allen lived
off of the challenge. He did two of them for publicity. One is, you can
drop me in any city in America, anywhere, with $500 in my pocket, no
contacts, no nothing, turn me loose and 48 hours later I will have
bought a piece of real estate. Occasionally, the media would take him
up on it and he would do it. The other was, he’d take anybody off the
soup line, a homeless person, anybody and within 72 hours they will
have bought a house. He would do that and he would get massive p.r.
from it and then use it in his advertising. That is an amazing feat.
I never asked you, did you see The Illusionist? Did you like it?
Question: I liked it better than The Prestige.
Dan:
Yeah, so if you haven’t seen the movie The Illusionist, it kind of came
and went, get it on DVD. It is a fabulous movie. There are lessons in
it, too, but it’s a fabulous movie. And by all means, get and read the
book, Carter Beats The Devil. A fabulous, fabulous book.
Question: What’s the book?
Dan:
Carter Beats The Devil. It’s not about Jimmy Carter.
historical novel, actually, about a magician.
It’s a fake
Comment on news and timely topics. This is a way to be talked about
all the time at least amongst your clients. All you need is USA TODAY.
This does not require any massive amount of resources. You need
USA TODAY, or watch CNN in the morning. You’ve got e-mail. Use it.
Be timely. Tucker is really good at this. He is really good at this. You
guys saw on the newsletter when he jumped on the John Kerry thing
about the…
Question: If you aren’t educated you wind up in Iraq.
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Dan:
Yeah. Then those soldiers made that picture with the photo of
misspelled “John Kerry save us, ‘cause we’re too stupid to…” Tucker
jumped on that the next day. There is something everyday that you
can be commenting on or opining on, making fun of, turning into a little
object lesson and communicating with your people about. Which of
these ten stories will they be talking about tomorrow? Pick his number
one story. He’s pretty much got it right, and that’s the story they’re
going to be talking about tomorrow. You talk about it, too. Shouldn’t
take you more than 15 minutes in the morning to bang out an e-mail.
Read USA TODAY, pick something, do something, send it out. Be
witty. Now, they are going to be talking about you in connection with
the news story of the day. If you’re local, pick a local story. All politics
is local. People care more about local, than they care about national.
The IBAs in the room, if you are local, pick a local story. Don’t watch
CNN, pick up your daily newspaper and watch your daily news
program and think about which of these stories will they be talking
about tomorrow. That’s the story I want to talk about. I’m a little
handicapped now. Our weekly faxes are actually done three or four
weeks ahead of time. They have to be because they’re bigger and
they have to move through places and I won’t e-mail them, and on, and
on, and on. I can’t be quite as topical as I could be before. I try and I
also try and anticipate what the story is going to be two or three weeks
out that I might be able to tie myself to, or what new story has legs that
is going to last for some period of time. You have the opportunity to do
something everyday. You want to be talked about every day? That’s
how to be talked about Tie yourself to what is going on.
Here’s something a lot of people don’t know. If you read up on
Thomas Edison, contrary to reputation, he wasn’t that great of an
inventor. Do you know that very popular story about the 502
experiments and what would I be doing if I hadn’t discovered
electricity, I’d be doing experiment 503? Nobody really thinks about
the fact that if it took you 503 times to figure this thing out, how smart
are you? Gee, couldn’t you have gotten there quicker if you’re the
world’s greatest inventor? Seemingly, five would have done it. The
reputation was grossly exaggerated as an inventor, in part, by his own
deliberate exaggeration.
What he was, was a fabulous promoter of himself and very good at
getting money. Very good at getting money from investors. Lots and
lots of money for thousands and thousands of inventions that never
came to market. The interesting thing out of this little block of copy is
that in his demonstrations he often talked about fascinating
applications which he actually had no intent of spending any time or
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money on related to the invention that he was promoting. Why?
Because to invent this thing that increases the current and the wall
socket and makes it do yaah. If this thing causes robots to run around
and make milkshakes for you, well that’s pretty sexy and exciting, so
let’s talk about robots. Even though we have no intention of ever
making a robot, we’ll talk about robots. He was pretty unabashed
about that through his entire career.
Andrew Carnegie has this reputation, carefully cultivated at the time,
as being the greatest industrialist. What he was better at was raising
money. And Carnegie spent most of his time shuttling back and forth
between the United States and Europe getting money. That is really
what he was really good at; putting ten people in a room and pitching
them. That he was a master at. Again, Trump, people think he’s in the
real estate business. He’s not in the real estate business he’s in the
Trump business. So what you see is rarely what is. What we think is
their business rarely is their business. The same is true with us so it is
a mistake to think about this business as a coaching business, or a
consulting business, or an information business, or an advisory
business. It is not. It is a self-aggrandizement business, it is a
promotion business, it is a client control business, etc.
Jump over to page 58. This is kind of interesting. I’m always
suspicious of academic research unless I agree with it. It is always
nice to have legitimate academic research when you do agree with it.
Here is what they did. They take two job candidates, and they are all
the same, except one of them the letter says, “Sometimes John can be
difficult to get along with.” The hiring directors had a choice of
interviewing either one of the two people. Which do you think they
took?
Question: John?
Dan:
Yeah, the answer is kind of obvious, given the context of our
conversation. The guy who was billed as “sometimes difficult to get
along with,” was asked to be interviewed much more than the guy who
did not have that criticism in his references. Why? We could
speculate about why, but the best likelihood is exactly what they
concluded. It made John a more believable candidate because the
reference not only said all of the good things about him, but it said a
bad thing about him. Again, let’s think of what is being said about
Sharon Stone’s character by Jeff Bridges. What do you want to
control? What is being said about you to other people by the people in
your coaching group, by your clients. What reputation is constructed
and spread from person to person to person to person. What do you
want it to be? Mostly what I want said is that I’m difficult to do
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business with and I’m hard to get to. I want them saying all the good
stuff, like “Kennedy is a genius,” “He knows more about marketing
seminars than anybody on the planet,” “He made me $12 million last
year and he’ll make you a fortune.” The line from the movie, “If you
can get to see her, it could change your life.” I just want the “but”
attached to it. “But, you should know, he’s a real pain in the ass to
deal with, you can never get him on the damn phone, and he’s irritable
and if you aggravate him, he won’t work with you, and he’s kind of
difficult to deal with.” That is what I want said. By the time they
approach me, they are behaving very well. That is intentional on my
part.
Now, if you dig a little deeper or you come to me by having read stuff,
and you come through the Path, what else do you know? You know a
bunch of bad stuff. You know I went broke, I had cars repossessed,
you know I had a booze problem, I contemplated suicide, you know
I’ve been divorced. If you read more current stuff you know I’ve got a
disease. Why do I want people to know that? There are a couple of
reasons I want people to know that. One is the build up is big enough
that this is humanizing. “I can connect with him,” kind of information.
It’s also knock off things. There is a significant segment of the
entrepreneurial population who have been bankrupt, so that
connection. If you are marketing child development stuff to parents, it
is extremely useful if you happen to have a child with some kind of
disability. As soon as you say it, there is a percentage of the audience
of the constituency who now connects with you at a higher level. The
entrepreneur who has been bankrupt connects with me at a more
intense level than if I didn’t reveal that piece of information.
Some of them prefer to keep it private, but probably of the 30 clients
who’ve spent the most money with me over two decades, 20 of them
had been or are in AA. It’s not that I drove them to drink; they were
there prior to me. I should quickly qualify that. That is what triggered
their interest in me. In a book, it may be two lines. You might have
even missed it because it wasn’t important to you. The guy that it’s
important to, it leaps out at him like you jumped off the page and hit
him with a hammer. He now wants to get to me. He feels a
connection. I have choices about these things. I could never say
them, I could ignore them, I can try and hide them, or I can use them.
My advice is to pretty much to be careful about place, but pretty much
use everything you’ve got. Don’t walk away from any of your life
experience that will be meaningful to people.
I’ll give you an exact example. Here is a letter I got the end of January.
I’ll just read only part of it. “I just finished your book and like how it
ended with a response by whether or not the reader would buy Book 2.
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Put me down for a big ‘Yes.’” That’s The Unfinished Business
autobiography book, is what he’s talking about. “I was a hard drinker.
One day I went to AA in 1995 and have been there ever since.
Appreciate your mentioning drinking in the book. I’m sure it will help
others as entrepreneurs…” I won’t read the rest of that paragraph, I
won’t read the rest of the next paragraph, but I’ll read you the last
paragraph. “I’ve joined Gold Plus, joined the local Mastermind group
and am attending my first Super Conference in April. I made sure I got
in early so I got the day with you prior to the event.” Why does he want
the day with me? Because of the connection. This guy has gone from
a $10 book in one big leap to Gold Plus, which, Karen, what do we
charge for…
Karen:
$239.97
Dan:
That’s all? That would be $240.00 times 10 is $2,400. That would be
$2,400 a year? No, $3,000 a year. Is it three? So $3,000 a year, he’s
joined a local Mastermind group, which also means he’s joined a local
chapter, so we delivered a customer to where ever he is who has given
them another $3,000. So there is $6,000. What does it cost to come
to the Super Conference? So there’s $7,500. I won’t give you the
average on-site sales number at the Super Conference, but I will tell
you that it is substantial. This guy is, probably within three months of
reading the book, in the total customer value range of $15,000+. That
is just the beginning. This is very easily a $50,000 $100,000 value
customer. What resonated with him? The personal disclosure. It’s all
he’s talking about. He’s not talking about any idea that he’s got. He’s
not talking about any strategy he’s using. He’s not talking about his
business. He’s talking about the personal disclosure. Do I a lot them?
No, but I get enough of them to know that it is meaningful and it is
important to people.
I never hit Tom and Peter Lowe events, but often, especially if I was
doing more personal development stuff, I would have a little story that I
told about stuttering as a kid. You can not tell it and not have
somebody, somebody…actually; I have a great story to tell you about
that. Glen Turner, which may or may not mean anything to anybody,
but Glen Turner had a company called “Dare To Be Great,” and he
was prosecuted and it’s a big mess. The Federal Government tried
Turner. The trial went on for 16 months. Hung jury. When it’s all over
with they poll the jury. Glen Turner is a really interesting motivational
speaker because Glen had a really bad hare lip that hadn’t been taken
care of when he was a kid, so if you hear him on tape you hear, “Yar,
rar.” It takes a half an hour to get in sync and be able to listen to the
tapes, ‘cause I mean seriously, “Yar, rar, rar.” Keep in mind that this a
guy who stood on stage, regardless of the business model, the
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numbers are that in 36 months he got 500,000 people to pay $5,000 to
be in his program, mostly from his speaking skill, “Yar, rar, rar.”
Turner’s basic model is a very simple thing. The Russian couple
asked me about this yesterday, and we’ll come back to it. His whole
sales presentation was, “Yar, rar, rar.” If he can do that talking like
that, you could do it. When he figured out that worked, he surrounded
himself with a blind guy, two midgets and the whole deal was, “Yar, rar,
rar.”
The Federal Government tried Turner and they admit to spending
something like $20 million on the trial. At the end of the whole thing it’s
a hung jury. It turns out there is one woman who will not convict. It’s
over with so you can talk to the jury. She’s on him like him like bees
on honey, “Will you please come to dinner, because my son has a hare
lip and you’re an inspiration to us.” The guy literally stayed out of jail
because one person on the jury.
So every time I tell a stuttering story, which is why I started telling it, is
because of what he told me about the jury. I thought, “Well if it works
on a jury, one out of thirteen, there’s got to be one out of every 300.”
No harm sticking it in. I can turn it into a useful story. I had never told
it before, but I started telling it to every audience. Afterwards, there is
at least one person that hangs around the group that hangs around
you afterwards until everybody else is gone.
Same with the drinking thing. They hang around until everybody else
is gone and then they want to come up and tell you their “my kid
stutters” story, or “I stuttered” story, or they want to come and tell their
drinking story, or they want to come tell me the bankrupt story. They
all buy. It’s a lock. If I put all of it into one speech, I know I’ve got like
five going in. People connect with these things, so if you’ve got them,
use them. They make you a more interesting character.
Just like the hiring director wants to interview the guy with the wart,
rather than the guy without the wart. Instead of the perfect candidate
he wants to interview the perfect candidate with the disclosed
imperfect quality. You are a more interesting character if you do not
attempt to appear to be perfect. The flaws are as interesting as are the
strengths. Superman does not work without Kryptonite. I figured that
out very early. He’s not an interesting character if he has superhuman
strength and can not be vulnerable to anything. What makes him
interesting is that there’s Kryptonite. Without Kryptonite, there is no
enduring character.
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Strategy of attachment. Here is another strategy for you. Mike Vance
built a, mostly with Fortune 1000’s, not with entrepreneurs, a terrific
career as a speaker, consultant, he wouldn’t use the term “coach,” but
client groups. Ten, 20, 30 CEOs and executives in a group paying
$4,000 to $5,000 a month in order to get together in, what he would
call, Creative Brainstorming sessions, what we would call a
Mastermind session, or a coaching group. Mike very much ran our
kind of business without ever seeing what we’re doing and without ever
really understanding what we’re doing. Mike’s entire career is based
on having worked for Walt Disney for three years. That’s it.
If you take that away, you’ve got no Vance career. You’ve got no
story. The connection to Disney is powerful. Smart enough to never
try and walk away from it. For thirty years, Mike’s been telling Walt
Disney stories. Mike has had himself hooked to Disney at the hip.
Smart enough never to try and separate. Ego not in the way, never
want to make this about Mike Vance, make this about Mike Vance as
the closest you can get to Walt. Helps that Walt is gone and you can’t
get to Walt. Unless you’re going to do the séance. Have you thought
more about that? Are you going to do it?
Question: Yeah, we’re doing it.
Dan:
I’ve got David in boot camp doing a séance. Who are you going to talk
to?
Question: Andrew Carnegie.
Dan:
Perfect. People in his boot camp are going to talk to the dead Andrew
Carnegie. We have no shame. You should get the skill from him, and
then you can do Napoleon Hill. Who are those people that you like,
that channel the Martian, or the…yeah, they’re channeling somebody,
right?
Question: Jerry Hicks. They actually believe it though.
Dan:
That’s irrelevant, isn’t it? It’s a great schtick. Vance is nearly
channelling Disney. He just doesn’t use that language, but that’s
Vance and that is what you’re buying. You’re buying Disney and
mostly you are buying Disney stories. Now, they have a few
methodologies that came from Disney, so their story board
methodology is an organizational planning, kind of marketing like thing,
the five sensing thing came from Disney. Vance attached himself to
that and made, not a mountain out of a mole hill, but a really big
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mountain from kind of a small mountain. Somewhat embellishing the
extent of the involvement, the connection, and all of that. By strategy
of attachment, the guy is a fascinating person who can command a lot
of money from clients. Without the attachment, he’s got no career at
all.
Dale Carnegie, the franchise, they are all connected to Dale. Foster
Hibbard, who we had a relationship with for five years, we created a
business for Foster. Foster is a speaker and I saw Foster speak at a
chiropractic event where I was speaking. He was on before me, so I
went. Not because I really cared about seeing him, but I wanted to
make sure I wasn’t going to do anything stupid. He was the best
speaker I have ever seen, period, to this day. Nobody is a better
speaker. He’s the worst platform salesman I’ve ever seen in my life.
You couldn’t be worse, pitiful. His whole body language, physiology
changed when it came time to talk about product. He shrunk. Here’s
his whole pitch: “Some of you want tapes and there’s tape and there’s
the suitcase and put whatever you think I should have in the suitcase
and take the tapes.” That’s his pitch.
The guy I’m speaking for, I know he ain’t paying fees. We’re there on
50/50 split on product sale. This is a no-fee gig. I know I’m making
money, but it’s pretty obvious to me that he ain’t making money. So I
said to Rodney, “How the hell is this guy making any money?” Rodney
says, “He ain’t.” By the way, Foster’s whole schtick is prosperity
thinking, wealth. Rod said, “He’s probably making $50,000 a year,
tops.” Very popular in chiropractic. Very well know in chiropractic.
Foster stays and watches me speak. It was a small audience, maybe
100 doctors, but I got like 80 of them and I did maybe $40,000,
$50,000. Foster corners me afterwards and he says, “I want to do that.
I’m not good at it.” I told him, “Yeah. That’s the most pitiful thing I’ve
ever seen.” We wound up building a business around him and created
a tour for him and we fixed him and got him to make a lot of money.
Here was our leverage point for Foster: We were able to connect
Foster to Napoleon Hill and attach him. Now, the actual truth of the
story is that Napoleon Hill and three partners attempted to franchise
Napoleon Hill like Dale Carnegie was franchised. In the pilot operation
in San Francisco, they hired Foster as the preview speaker to do the
evening introductory seminars to sell people into the course. He
mentioned it as a “oh, by the way.” I turned it into the whole story. I
didn’t tell it the way I just told it to you. I hooked him to Napoleon Hill
at the hip. “I worked closely with Napoleon Hill.” That is true, they did
spend one day in a room, Foster and the three guys, closely. They all
sat at the same table and they worked on what the hell they were
going to do to try and make this franchise work. He did work closely
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with Napoleon Hill; I just left out the part that it was for about four and
half hours, if you take out lunch. I didn’t mention that part of the story.
The attachment instantly made him more valuable and more
promotable and able to do better from the front of the room. There is
the strategy of attachment. This is relatively new.
Think about what Trump has done most recently is that Trump has
connected himself to Kiyosaki and Kiyosaki has connected himself to
Trump. Why? It’s kind of obvious why Kiyosaki would connect himself
to Trump, even though Kiyosaki has done very well. Rich Dad, Poor
Dad has been on the New York Times Bestseller list for I don’t know
how long. Three years, four years, five years? Which is a feat beyond
my ability to conceive. He spawned the entire series of books. Robert
has done very, very well with one short story, which is fundamentally
what he’s got. I had a rich dad, I had a poor dad. Rich dad did
different things than poor dad did. That’s it. I just gave you the whole
schtick. There is about 512 books, six seminars, a game, DVDs and
that’s the story. Tells you the importance of a story. One good story.
It’s better to have ten, but one good story can make you a lot of
money.
Kiyosaki has connected himself to Trump, even though Kiyosaki is
already doing very, very well. That makes some sense. Trump has
connected himself to Kiyosaki. Why? The same reason he’s with the
World Wrestling Federation offering to shave off his hair. Why not?
That’s the main reason. Because there is a whole constituency over
there that he might not reach were it not for that connection, there is no
harm in doing so, it is a segment of the market that’s different to him.
This is Mark Victor Hansen and Art Linkletter. I’m only paying attention
to it because we just got Art Linkletter for our client, Miracle Ear. The
most common thing you hear when you talk to people about Art
Linkletter is “He’s still alive?” Yeah, he is. He’s 94 and he’s doing
great. Since we just signed him and gave him a lot of money, we hope
he lives to be 100. At least, because it’s a three year contract. Come
to think of it, we probably should have gotten some insurance.
Why would these two guys hook up with each other? For Mark, it’s
why not. No harm, no foul. It’s constituency he might not reach
otherwise, seniors. They might not be paying attention to him. He
recognizes to some degree, he’s not really famous, Chicken Soup For
The Soul is famous, but Linkletter is famous with seniors. If I’m Mark
and I attach myself to Linkletter and his new book for seniors and his
Web site for seniors, and his whole promotion for Seniors that there
are all sorts of other things for me. Why Linkletter to Hansen? Same
reason in reverse. Linkletter sees Chicken Soup For The Soul and
says, “Better to be attached to that than not attached to it.” Now,
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arguably, in both of those scenarios you have two famous people who,
by nature, by instinct, by ego, were probably prefer not to be attached
to anybody. But, they are smart enough as businesspeople to
understand that there is so much value in attachment that you ought to
do it rather than not do it.
In the case of coaching programs, one of the reasons…you, come up
here so you have a mic. Lee, yeah sit up here at the table. You need
sunglasses because of the boots. How many of you know what the
Millionaire Mindset coaching program that Lee does? I’ll do it real
quick. You correct me if I screw it up. Then I have a question for you.
This is sort of a co-op thing so it gets attached to other people’s
coaching programs. How many clients does she have in here…Scott,
Charlie, you. In each of their coaching programs, so let’s take Tucker.
You have 165 mortgage brokers in his coaching program who pay him
whatever they pay him, $1,500 a month, give or take, and they get to
come to some meetings with Tucker, which would seem to me, you
could get $2,500 a month out of them if they were permitted not to
come to the meetings with Tucker. They get to come to meetings with
Tucker, they get to use some of his marketing stuff, which is locked
behind a wall, they get some calls with him and so forth.
First of all, how do you pad the program, how do you add more and
more content without doing more and more work, right? How do you
cover a category you don’t really want to talk about? Lee essentially
offers a pre-packaged add-on to everybody’s coaching program with a
call a month, a CD a month, articles, e-mails, etc. There is more to it
than that. What is as important about it is how do you pad the program
and deliver more content without doing more work is the attachment
that occurs. In one fell swoop, Tucker attaches himself to her and her
story; she’s busy attaching herself to celebrity authors and experts who
she interviews so Tucker gets that attachment. She’s attached to me
and to Glazer Kennedy, so Tucker gets that attachment, although he
has also bought that in another way, in my co-branding program, so he
gets four attachments here, all at one fell swoop.
Who have you interviewed in the past year of note?
Lee:
Art Linkletter, Jack Canfield, Mark Victor Hansen, Les Brown, Jack
Canfield, Matt Fury.
Dan:
Every time she does that, he gets the benefit of the attachment without
having to go chase it down, and do it himself and so forth. Amortized,
let’s see how good with math you are, he has 165 coaching members,
so what is it costing him per coaching member, per year, for you.
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Lee:
He could figure that out.
Tucker:
For $3 million a year.
Dan:
Yeah, that’s the smart way to look at it. You’re right. $36,000 a year,
which is what you are paying her.
That would be $500 per coaching member. Now, here is what you
don’t know about that. How much do you charge now for coaching?
No difference between $14.97 and $19.97 or he could make it free, it
doesn’t make any difference. It’s all in how you want to look at it.
Understand that when you look at a program like hers, that it’s not just
about the stuff, it’s about the principal of attachment. How many have
you got?
Lee:
Close to 30.
Dan:
Thirty clients. You also saw another coaching model, which we really
should have done yesterday, is the coaching for other coaches. In
fact, one of your clients, Matt Gillingly and Tim Waterford, they started
as coaches for other coaches. Who didn’t want to do coaching and
built a coaching program. All sorts of ways to skin this cat. Where did
we find you?
Lee:
Milteer.com.
Dan:
Thank you. Next strategy. Opposition. Some years, sort of a Fostertype story, a guy comes to one of my seminars for speakers. His
name is Jack Henry. Jack was then speaking for $500 a day and he
was booked solid and he had one product. Six audio cassette tapes
with a rubber band around them that he sold for $49. Jack tells me his
story at the seminar. We do these hot seats. As I hear Jack’s story,
important word, story, and the fact that he’s working for $500 and
selling six tapes for $49, I’m thinking that this guy should be making $1
million a minute and he doesn’t know it.
Here is Jack’s story. Jack was selling himself as an expert in
employee and delivery man theft control for supermarkets and
convenience stores. The two minute piece of information you need to
fully appreciate is that the theft by employees and delivery men is five
times what the shoplifting number is. Most of the storeowners think
that their problem is the shoplifting, but the problem is all internal. The
delivery guys all steal from them and the employees all steal from
them. The delivery guys steal what they deliver and they steal other
stuff while they are there, as well. The cigarette guy comes in with four
empty cartons underneath the full cartons and he puts the little
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cameras in the empty cartons and goes out with cameras. The Pepsi
guy wheels in six cases of Pepsi stacked on a cart, yells over to the
guy behind the counter, “Six,” the guy looks and sees six, checks off
six, and the Pepsi guy wheels back out six empty cartons, two of which
are full of beer and two of which are full of Pepsi and only the one on
top is empty and then he goes and sells the beer and the Pepsi for
cash to somebody who owns a bar somewhere. The storeowner paid
for a delivery of eighteen cases of Pepsi and he really got four.
There are 312 employees steal. I don’t remember them all right now,
but I can walk into any convenience, any grocery store and any
restaurant and in five minutes I can tell you if the cashier is stealing,
which 90% of the time she is. And most of the time I can tell you how
much she stole and up until now on her shift. There are things called
theft tracks, you can do it visually. One quick one just for fun. If they
are stealing at the register from the store, not from the customers by
short changing, but if they’re stealing from the register, they have to
wait to get it out when there isn’t anybody around; they’ve got to put
the money in the register. Which means they’ve got to get it out. They
have to keep track how much over they are in the register. They can’t
do it mentally, so they have to have a mechanism for keeping track of
how much over they are in the register. The most common is a little
pile of objects to which they’ve assigned a value. Over here is two
pieces of gum, a button, three pennies and a bobby pin. Each one of
those things means something. The bobby pin is a quarter, the button
is a dollar, the piece of gum is a nickle and that’s how they can add up
how far over they are in the register and how much they can take out.
In one chain, because they’ve all taught each other the same
numerical code, so as soon as you know what the one is doing, you
can know what they all are doing. In grocery stores they take a bar
code, so if you go into a grocery store, short sleeves only, because if
you let them wear long sleeves, they take the bar code for a cheap
item on their list and then when their mother-in-law comes through with
steak, because the front end supervisor can only hear beeps, they’re
listening for beeps, they run the steak under the scanner like this, they
scan the $4 bar code and they put the $20 item through the deal. On
and on, and on.
Just as background. Jack’s story is, is that he is an ex-delivery man
thief. That is his expertise. He was a Pepsi driver and a bread driver
and stole from everybody he delivered to. All the delivery guys plan it,
by the way. They all arrive at the same time so there is chaos, they all
meet up, this one gives what he stole and they trade, they swap, they
open a store in a garage together. I’m hearing this story and Jack’s
telling stories, four or five really good stories of theft incidents. He’s
booked solid at $500 a day and I’m thinking no wonder. Average
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grocery store loses $500 a day to internal theft. Jack’s going in solving
their whole problem for $500 once and $49 for a set of tapes.
Afterwards, I’m taking Jack aside, out of the entire crop at the seminar,
and I’m telling him, “Jack, let’s fix this.” Here is how valuable his
information was. We immediately raised his fee from $500 to $5,000,
but I’m not real subtle about that, I just add zeros and see where we
might end up. He loses one client. They all pissed and moaned like
there is no tomorrow, but they all paid it. Then we took the tapes,
$490. Added a zero. No difference. Same six tapes, same rubber
band, same number of people buying them. Then we took the seminar
he was doing and cut it in half, because he was teaching too much.
We created a basic and an advanced. If you wanted to do both, it’s not
$5,000, it’s $10,000, on and on and on. All because there was a great
story and an enemy, a thing that irritated the owners, they were really
made when you proved to them that they were being ripped off by their
employees and by their delivery guys. You’ve got an enemy. You’ve
got somebody to sell against, is the enemy of this owner.
The great Jack sales story was this. In town doing a seminar for Name
of Grocery Store chain, well-known chain, all across the country.
Afterwards the owner takes me to his home for drinks and dinner. It
was a beautiful home on a hill in a gated community, a very expensive
home. We’re standing having drinks looking out the bay window of the
living room of his house and he says “see that house diagonally across
the street way up on the hill?” “Yeah” “As you can see, it’s about twice
the size of mine.” “Yep” “it’s got an indoor pool, I don’t have an indoor
pool, and it’s got an indoor basketball court and I don’t have an indoor
basketball court. Who do you think owns that house?” “No idea” “It’s
the Pepsi driver that delivers to my stores.”
That’s the only story that you’ve got to tell. Every grocery store owner
is like “those sons of bitches”. “I’ll pay anything… I’ve got to stop those
sons of bitches from stealing from me!”
There’s the “up against the Wal-Mart guy”, doing very, very well. (not
doing as well as he could be doing by the way) but doing well by
positioning his lead guy who helps the small retailer come up against
Wal-Mart and succeed and prosper. So a strategy is apposition.
In chiropractic, I have two clients. Paul who’s here in a business
relationship with Ben Altadona, I’ve had Ben as a client for many years
and Ben sort of sells a traditional practice building kind of information
to chiropractors.
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Well, recently, I have a client Dr. Chris Tomshack, who’s franchising in
chiropractic. The franchise is of course the perfect antidote to
everything Ben sells and everyone else in chiropractic sells. If you buy
the franchise you never have to go to another seminar again because
we do everything for you. You never have to buy any books and tapes
again as long as you live. You never need another marketing system.
This is it.
Well, so I got both of them and I probably went overboard a little bit
with the first Tomshack ad, without naming Ben of course, but in
making the thing in opposition to everything else they were doing. So
you track off to seminar after seminar after seminar and you come
home with shrink wrap boxes of crap, you never use them, you have a
room full of marketing systems and never use them and this is the
answer to that. It kind of ticked off Ben. You could sort of recognize
my copy and with 20/20 hindsight he had the right to be a little ticked
off, I mean, not a lot, but a little.
It turns out however, of course that not only do both stories work fine,
and both continue to prosper in their relatively small little niche by
selling against each other, but even while selling against each other
one is able to sell the other ones thing to his clients. Even the
incongruity doesn’t matter.
Part of the solution to all this was to sell Tomshacks franchise to Ben’s
clients. If you really want this antidote, I’m better off selling it to you
than letting him sell it to you without me. Both are an opposition sale
to the other.
In real estate for a long time I did work with Craig Forte and Craig
Proctor and sold against each other. Proctor based upon “I’m the guy
who’s still doing it and nobody else is doing it.” Ford as “I’m the guy
who’s never done it and you don’t want a guy who’s doing it.” It
doesn’t make any difference. The opposition strategy works, just pick
something to be in opposition to.
We’ll go to 62 to some advanced strategies, but you have a question.
Question: The first one is about the promotion of other people on my list, and doing a
monthly call, I have to interview a guest, how much do I need to be worried
about interviewing people who are doing very closely related to what I’m
doing?
Dan:
Well you need to be worried about other things even more than that.
Fundamentally, remember, part of the business that we’re in is the
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reputation business. You need to be worried about anything that could
be potentially harmful to your reputation.
You don’t have to worry about what the person does just while they are
a guest on the call. You have to worry about what they do with the
customers next and next and next and almost forever. You have to be
very thoughtful about that. By the way, the longer you’re at it… the
bigger a challenge this is.
There are a lot of people that you’d like to put on a call or that you’d
like to put on a stage, but there is one thing wrong with them that now
makes it impossible to use them, If you are careful about protecting
your reputation.
Now, no matter how careful you are, the other thing I’m going to tell
you is that over time, something’s going to slip through and you are
going to have a mess, and you will have a mess to clean up.
We are very careful, and we still, from time to time misjudge one. You
have to be as careful as you can be. That means you don’t put
anyone on unless you have some real awareness of what their
business motto is and what happens to your customer when your
customer becomes their customer.
You can impose obviously front end restrictions on what they offer or
won’t offer, but you can’t obviously control what happens down the
road and sometimes you should impose front end restrictions.
For example, let’s say you are in the “coaching” business and you’re
going to put Hansen on. He’s got coaching programs, but they are
deep in his system, so your restriction would certainly be that he can’t
say the word “coach” while he’s on the call. He can promote books
and a website. Now, you know that only a certain number of your
people are ever going to bother to go and get a book and then only a
certain number of those people are going to take the next step, and
ultimately a tiny number of people are going to get a coaching pitch.
No harm or little harm done.
Somebody I won’t name, but of similar status, which also has a
coaching program but then converts the people of the coaching
program to buyers of various investments and financial services and
financial products, some of which are questionable, and at least once a
year he is being investigated by somebody. Even if you front end
restrict that, you can’t let him anywhere near your people.
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You have to make it criteria in your head. We have criteria for who can
speak at an event. It’s more stringent than who we will put on a call.
We have criteria that they have to meet and if they can’t meet those
things, than we can’t let them in.
The specific question was how concerned do you have to be if they are
doing something comparable? Would you like to give me an exact
example?
Question: Ben Glass
Dan:
Okay, fine. I think that when you do have a comparability situation like
that, or where there is real likelihood of trade of dollars. Meaning that
somebody might spend a buck with them that gets in the way of them
spending a buck with you, then there has to be benefit to you beyond
just filling a time slot with good content. There has to be reciprocity,
meaning he’s going to get in your list, you’re going to get in his list it’s
somewhat of an equal trade or can be made to be an equal trade like
and/or you’re going to get paid when he does what he’s going to do
with a customer when he gets it. Now at least there’s direct financial
compensation coming in to you.
Question: Is that normal on a call? I know that at an event it is. On his monthly
calls is a split normal?
Dan:
Well it’s not as normal. I’ll tell you for example, in many cases. First
of all, if it’s a small potatoes thing, like it’s a book author, and really
they aren’t doing anything but their books and maybe getting a
speaking gig or something.
Think Carol Frank, who spoke at Renegade Millionaire Retreat and I
did a call with right? Well Carol is NSA culture from beginning to end.
She’s got two little cassette programs that she sells for nothing and a
book. If she gets a speaking gig, she’s thrilled to take her fee, go
speak and she thinks that’s wonderful OK? I don’t want any money
from her. I’m happy to have her on her call, I’m happy to let her make
her money and not really worry about it.
Toll
Booth
Position
Harvey Zemmel, who’s going to sell an ascension series of exit
strategies management services from a fairly expensive product to a
fairly expensive coaching program to “you give me $200,000, I move in
with you for a year, get your business packaged up so that you can sell
it for 4 times what you thought you could sell it for before.” If we put
him on a Gold call, we’re going to have a financial arrangement.
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To use our friend Harvey Brody’s language, we have a toll position.
You have a toll position and you spent a lot of money to create it. You
built an expensive toll booth and you spend a lot of money to maintain
that toll booth and you have the right to collect toll.
You don’t put somebody there because of the monetary benefit. It’s
actually the last consideration, not the first consideration because you
don’t put somebody there that you don’t really like. However, if they fit
all the rest of the criteria, absolutely you ought to get paid or there
should be reciprocity or some compensation to you for letting them
walk through your toll book, have your endorsement and be presented
to your people.
Having said all of that, are you, I would most of the time rather not be
presenting a Ben Glass, or Bill Hammond. I would rather be
presenting a generalist or a linked, but not directly linked topic.
If I was you, I’d rather be doing Dave Dee and the psychic sales
person than I would Ben Glass. Several times a year at least,
however, in a niche it’s really useful to give them another niche guy.
The last thing I will say about this and this is pretty important. We
talked about money last night. People have this “finite” infinite kind of
continuum that they’re on. At one end of the spectrum I always use
Ron LaGrand as an example. Ron believes profoundly that there is no
limit to the amount of money his customers will spend in a day, month,
calendar year or lifetime ok?
The fact that 500 people come and take money from him today is
irrelevant to him in thinking that “now I won’t be able to get money”.
His attitude is “have at em!”
Way at the other end of the extreme is people who worry about it
obsessively. They devoutly believe that “if I let you get a dollar from
Tucker, that’s a dollar I won’t be able to get from Tucker because
Tucker’s only going to spend so many dollars this month.
If we have a relationship and we’re sharing revenue, I’m getting 50
cents on a dollar from Tucker when I could have got a dollar on a dollar
if you weren’t there so I’m better off.
Everybody is somewhere on that continuum. Without telling you where
you ought to be, the reality is that once you awaken someone’s interest
in a category, whether that’s better health, weight loss, getting rich in
real estate or marketing their business better, whatever it is. You can’t
fence them in to just you. You automatically create a customer for a lot
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of other people. The average business book buyer goes to Barnes
and Nobles and buys 5 books at a time. They all tend to be about the
same thing. When somebody goes there into real estate, they don’t
just go and find the best one and go home, they buy 5.
With Ron LaGrand’s audiences I did this all the time when I’d speak at
his info seminars I’d say “OK everybody, Ron’s going close his eyes so
you can all tell the truth. We all know Ron’s not shy, he shows up a lot
asking for money. He takes a lot of money from you, so it’s not like
he’s been laying down on the job with you here, but how many of you
own a Carlton Sheet’s product? Well all the hands go up. How many
own a Russ Whitney product? All the hands go up. How many own
this guy? All the hands go up.
So once they’re turned on, switched on, clicked on, no matter how
much you sell them or no matter how often you show up. They’re
running around.
I know of 4 people in my coaching groups when I had 3 VIP groups
who that year paid $15,000 to go to a Jay Abraham seminar. Now
what in the hell, with no disrespect to Jay, what in the hell do they need
to be doing going to a Jay Abraham seminar for?
I mean how much more marketing stuff do you need? You’re at a 2
day meeting with me 3 times a year, you’re at a Super Conference, an
information marketing seminar, you’re getting a Gold Plus tape every
month, you’re getting a newsletter every month that you’re whining and
moaning that you don’t have time to read and you’re running off giving
Jay Abraham $15,000.
On one level it like pisses me off right? But on the other level, it’s
amazing that there weren’t more of them! So you can’t stop it. If
they’re going to go off and do it anyway, and each person fits my
criteria, I might as well be in a cooperating relationship than a
competitive relationship and I might as well get a piece of it, or I might
as well have a reciprocal sharing of customers and leads.
Question: I’m getting ready to pick a fight with the biggest estate planning organization
that’s much like NSA. Is there anything that I should be aware of before I
do that which would be a big mistake?
Dan:
Are you a member?
Question: I’m a member.
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Dan:
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They’ll throw you out.
Question: Yes, I’m ready for that.
Dan:
You can make that easy or easy. When I was thrown out, I sued and
after 14 months won. Sealed settlements of course, but you know,
they had to reinstate me, and in the little directory where they publish
the year that you became a member, it had to be continuous.
If you really piss them off, they will probably try to incrementally
attempt to punish and discourage you. So like Somers White pissed
them off alright with his dinner thing and they made him move out of
the hotel. He can’t have it in the hotel. They did a whole bunch of stuff
so that you can’t even get a hospitality suite because of him. You can’t
even rent a suite without NSA knowing that you’re renting a suite and
the hotel has to get their permission before they can let you have one
to even sleep one, all thanks to Somers.
Now they didn’t go so far as to drive him out of the association
because he has deep roots in the association. He used to be on the
board etc, but they made life as difficult for him as they can make it.
In my case they did things incrementally as they could too, and
because I kept aggravating them, they eventually tossed my ass out.
You should expect exactly the same thing. You will have some like
long lasting irritated people from the “powers that be” hierarchy of the
association who may never forgive you.
There is a chairman) guy, very well known, who called up Nido Qubein
the year that Nido was president and said “if you keep being friends
with Kennedy, I’m never coming to NSA again. And he’s never come
to NSA again.
You are going to have that right? They will definitely deny you access
so whatever access you’ve got will be very hard to come by, beyond
that, “naaah”.
There is probably a significant segment of their membership that you
will resonate with that you have never resonated with before by doing
it.
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Question: The way that I’m going to start is that I’m going to post something very
public there’s already been a little going on. I’m a lawyer, I shouldn’t
be asking you this I guess, you could get into trouble, but did you face
any action that cost you money that was more than it was worth?
Dan:
No, but it was worth a lot. One client to me over a life-time has a lot of
value. No. It couldn’t have gotten any worse than it did. There was of
course litigation expense.
Question: You sued them, they didn’t sue you?
Dan:
No, they just have their own little tribunal, they convict you and then
they throw you out. It would be interesting, which I suggested to them.
I volunteered “let’s do it at the convention, and let’s have a public
setting fire to me on the stage or something”. You know the old Chuck
Connors Branded Show where they ripped the and like on Survivor
where you walk the bridge of shame or whatever that thing is as you
leave the island. That would have been worth a lot of money to me.
I couldn’t get them to do it and the only person that found it funny was
the judge in the courtroom. No one else really seemed to have a
sense of humor about this whole thing but him and me. It couldn’t
have gotten any worse. So for a while, I was writing checks to a
lawyer. I used kind of a cheap one and did all the work myself, and
they spent a whole lot more money than I did.
As far as posting on their site, as long as it’s not irritating to them. I
don’t think it will stay up there very long, but the one thing you have to
worry about is the access.
In NSA’s case, if you are a member, you cannot use the directory
essentially as a mailing list for commercial or promotional purposes.
However, they can’t enforce that against a non-member and anyone
can buy a directory for $35. The two years that I wasn’t a member, I
actually had more freedom than when I was a member in order to
market into the association. I just couldn’t go be seen at the
convention.
However, NSA also has a rule that if you are a member you can’t come
to the convention hotel and hang out without having registered as a
member. If you however, are a non member, they have no control
over any of that.
I never went to anything anyway. I hung out in the halls and the
cocktail lounges and I can do that without a badge on, and I’m more
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interesting because now everyone is coming over and asking “hey
what’s going on with you and NSA, glad you’re here…tell me the
story”. “Well I really can’t…”
It was what it was. I would have rather not have had it occur, but once
it did, I made much of it.
You got to be real quick, by the way are we doing lunch at noon? Are
we doing the same routine? Same routine? ok.
Question: In my toll booth position with IB Program and Millionaire Blueprints
Magazine, I do have a lot of people coming out of the woodwork asking
me for stuff and in the chapter meetings, I don’t have a problem getting
Guru’s who do technical themes to come in and do workshops.
However, I am kind of leery about speakers coming in because they
see the Kennedy.
Dan:
It’s the same answer as it was to her.
Question: But what my question is what criteria are you guys using when you
evaluate the speakers and interview steps?
Dan:
I’m not going to do that here. However, it’s an IBA question and
Howard or Bill would be happy to answer for you specific to us and/or
specific to IBA’s. I’m not going to do our criteria publicly for a variety of
reasons including the fact that it might unnecessarily offend people and
there’s no benefit to me, in this case, to do it.
Page 62… this is a pretty cool strategy. It’s called the “Industry Survey
Strategy”. Anybody can do it. So my example is again with the NSA
market, where I spend a lot of time. There’s another sort of ½ rogue,
½ parasite that’s made her money largely off NSA for many, many
years, her name is Dottie Walters. Dottie is about the same age as Art
Linkletter I think, and she’ll out work any of us in the room. She
publishes a trade journal for the speaking industry that started out as a
little newsletter and it’s a big deal now and runs some seminars and
some other stuff.
One of Dottie’s strategies which she’s used repetitively is that she did
what a lot of the associations do, but prior to her doing it, NSA didn’t do
it so she “leap frogged” over them and did an industry survey and
surveyed all the speakers I have one year’s copy of it somewhere.
Here’s 2002. Here’s the “Speaking Industry’s Report”, The Speaking
Bureau’s and Meeting Planners, Where we are, where we’re going with
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a special emphasis on the effect of 9/11/2001. What topics are hot,
etc. with fancy bar graphs and diagrams. All she did is survey all the
speakers. Her market had them all take surveys, had them compiled
and now everybody wants to know what the results of the survey was
that they participated in. It gets 100% nearly of the market into a
dialog with her and actually put her above the governing association
body dealing with that market.
In fact, they wound up quoting her survey in their publications. That’s
a pretty cool survey. So if you want to get to the top 50 CEO’s of an
industry, do a survey of the top 50 CEO’s of a given industry and the
vast majority of them will participate.
A similar strategy is the “interview” strategy. You IBA’s will like this.
There was a client of mine a number of years ago, speaker, consultant,
traveling 412 days a year etc. says “I want to stay home”. “I want to
work in my local market.” “I want to like live in a company like a
consultant so I want to have 8 or 10 clients and I want to do a lot of shit
with them and I want to do deep and horizontal and workshops and it’s
got to be a significant sized company and I have to sell to the CEO,
how do I get into him?”
This is the guy that did leadership training stuff, which is actually not an
easy thing to market anyway. So, we made a hit list of the 100 CEO’s
in his market which is in Minneapolis/St. Paul. 100 CEO’s that he
wanted to get face time with. His contention was, “if I get an hour
worth of face time with him I got him”.
So I said “OK, if that’s true”, sometimes people tell you stuff that isn’t
true and you help them based on that and the results are not the same.
Years ago, Rory Fatt came to me and said, when he was in the food
delivery business, “if they try six of my meals I got them. They all
reorder. I said “well in that case, I can solve your problem but you’d
better be right, because otherwise we’ll just give everyone six free
meals”.
This guy says if I get an hour of face time with them I got them. I said
“ok” the hour of face time I can solve. All we have to do is get you a
real, legitimate book deal to write a book on your leadership crap and
then we have to send a letter on the publishing company’s letter head
from the editor in chief of Simon and Shuster, or Random House or
whatever to the 100 CEO’s, telling them that you’re doing a book on
leadership and you’re going to be interviewing 20-30 of the top CEO’s
in Minneapolis and we’ve identified all 100 names on the letter and
we’re going to interview the first 20-30 who respond and include the
information that we get from them in this book.
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They’re all on the phone because they all want to be in the book. Now
he’s got his hour of face time. I got him what he wanted. In this case,
77 out of 100 picked up the phone and called him and said “please
come see me”.
It wouldn’t have to be a book. The book is really pretty good, and a
real publisher is real good. However, it could be a magazine or a trade
journal. It could even be a fake thing, but it would be most effective if it
were a real book.
Joe, there were three trade journals in carpet cleaning, wanted
cooperation from all of them, so he got a monthly tape, which is media
and interviewed the editors of all three of the editors of the trade
journals. As dumb as they may be, what we figured out is that they
can handle a short interview about industry trends. Every trade journal
that I’ve ever encountered, every industry executive can handle a short
interview about industry trends. They may not know anything else, but
they kind of can get through that and you can use them.
Now you cultivate that relationship, now you cultivate that relationship,
now you always have that cooperation. Obviously you can do that
same shtick with CEO’s of companies, owners of businesses in a
certain niche. Let’s say you want to prospect dentists in Minneapolis.
All we need is some kind of media in which the dentist’s are
interviewed or profiled are going to appear or the composite of the
information that we gather is going to appear and we present ourselves
to them as media rather than someone who wants to sell them
something. We will get the dentists to participate. Now we just have
figure out how we make the bridge from where we started to where we
want to be.
To place yourself for the “center strategy”, we kind of talked about that
so for the sake of time I’m going to zoom past it and talk about the
“with a person of influence” strategy.
This again is the attachment thing. You are who you are with and so if
Charlie is with Lee and Lee is with Lee’s 10 main people and Lee is
with Me, Charlie is with all of them. You are who you are with.
In NSA, in 1979, I wind up taking over this miserable, stinking, failing,
custom manufacturing/audio publishing company that was producing
audio cassette programs for roughly 50% of the speakers in the
country and managing to lose a fortune doing it and teetering on the
brink of bankruptcy. It had lots and lots of other problems, quality
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control problems, and delivery on time problems etc… Its reputation
had to be saved or there would be no business.
At the time that I took it over I was already rather controversial in NSA
because I had managed to sort of intentionally piss everyone off even
without purpose, whereas now I do it strategically.
It had a problem, I had a problem right? So what do I do to give it sort
of a status boost in this marketplace? I go find one of the people that
have the greatest status in it’s marketplace who I can rent. Not
everybody “rentable”, but a lot of people are “rentable”.
Nido, who is speaking at our Super Conference, was at the time one of
the big names in the NSA community. He had been president of the
association, arguably one of the most successful members of the
association. Everybody knew who he was, everybody lusted after his
advice and he would draw the biggest crowd around him asking
questions at the association meetings and best of all, Nido is a
business guy.
He was selling things to the NSA market at the time as well, a book
ghost writing service and consulting and so forth. I “rented” him. We
arrived at an arrangement. We produced a ton of product for him at
cost and we paid him a fee and we did a seminar tour around the
country just for NSA members with him and me talking about the
speaking business. We made a big deal about General Cassette
producing all of Nido’s product including all this new stuff that we were
showing at the seminar.
So, for a year, I owned him in the NSA market and that changed like
everything, because well, if he’s there and we want to be like him we
must be wrong about that, so we’ll go over there too. Plus, we want
something from him and maybe being there will encourage him to be
nice to us too. He was a client magnet.
This was a win win deal. Some looking at it from the outside would say
that he took undo advantage of our very weak position at the moment.
He was a very good negotiator. However, everything he got, however
painful it was at the moment to give it to him, I considered it to be the
bargain of the century.
I am sure to this day he thinks that he got the better end of the deal.
And to this day, I think I got the better end of that deal. So we were
both very happy. It served both of our purposes very, very well at the
moment. It sort of loops back to the 175K go get your butt shot up into
space. Sometimes these things are money very well spent.
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Think about if you are trying to leap frog in a niche, or in a community
or leap frog into any constituency, who are the top 5 people in that
constituency that people already knows, respects, admires or is
fascinated with. And if you can’t attach yourself to them any other way,
buy them. Rent them. Get into some arrangement by which you can
connect yourself to them even if only for a brief period of time for pay
or for trade. If there are 5 of them, odds is one of them will play. Now
understand, our arrangement was not known.
I’m telling you
something that’s not known. It doesn’t matter at this point, but, it’s
almost as if both of us were dead from the standpoint of mattering, but
certainly no body knew it.
It was deceptive by omission I guess. The assumption was that Nido
was a client paying full price for what he was getting and of course we
produced the most expensive stuff we could for him because we
wanted everybody else to buy the most expensive stuff. His audio
cassette album covers had gold embossed full color, you couldn’t have
made a more expensive album cover, because that’s now what I
wanted you to want. The assumption was that he was a full client
when in fact he was not. The assumption was that we were doing a
seminar of us together with he promoting his stuff and I promoting our
stuff and there was no obvious disclosure that I was paying him and
subsidizing the expenses and letting him keep the money on
everything that he did. Certainly there was no disclosure of the
strategy. This arrangement was not known and could not be known
just as your arrangement cannot be known in most cases.
In some cases it doesn’t matter if others know that you rented him if it
gets the right people to you and to the room. There’s an article, I think
it’s on the next couple of pages, selling questionable investments.
The guy in this article is selling questionable investments. He went
and rented himself Gorbachev. He wrote a big check. Made sure he
was seen with Gorbachev at the country club where he wanted to be
seen. He invited people to a cocktail party with Gorbachev. Now he’s
got him, he’s got his face time, got his opportunity. He couldn’t get it
otherwise. Rent a celebrity, write a check. There are worse ideas,
especially if you want to “leap frog”.
“Cold” Prospecting
Let’s talk between now and lunch about getting clients cold if you must.
By cold I mean you have no place, no basis. You have no entry level
herd from which ascension comes.
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You actually want to go to the street and get consulting clients or
coaching members from scratch. The first thing you should know
about all that is that if you are niched somehow, it is infinitely easier
than if you are not niched and usually the tighter niched you are the
better. Then, it is usually more a financing problem than a marketing
problem. For example, I can tell you Charlie Martin’s case from zero to
28 people in coaching at $25,000 up front plus $1297 a month.
There’s no product, there’s no newsletter there’s no herd, no host
relationship no nothing. That’s Charlie going to dentistry, selling them
into coaching, $25,000, $1200 a month.
Tomshacks doing the same thing in Chiropractic and I could give you
20 examples it goes on and on. The thing we know from all of them is
that cost of sale is going to be somewhere between $5,000 and $9,000
Literally, if you tell me that you want 100 of them and you give me the
budget of 5-9 thousand times 100 and you are narrow enough niched
and you have a story, it’s formulaic. So this is more like a financing
problem than a marketing problem. The more niched you are, the
tighter the niche you are, so he’s not just going after dentists, he’s
going after high end cosmetic or implant dentists and there’s other
criteria as well.
If you’re going to get clients cold, here’s some things you have to think
about. One, create a hit list and farm them. When David Ogilvy went
into the advertising business, he said he’s going to make a list of 100
companies that I want as clients and we’re just going to pursue them
again and again and again until we get them and Ogilvy got like 92 or
93 I forget the exact story. Most people don’t even do that. They don’t
sit down and say “Here’s 100 people I want, here’s the 10 people I
want”.
Somehow you have to create your hit list and if the list is too big, odds
are you are not going to get where you want to go. Most people are
way too broad. When they describe to me who their prospects are,
their definition is so broad that the resources that you’d have to have to
have any impact, you’d have to put so many marbles on the table that
you wouldn’t be bothering to do it. You’d just be clipping the coupons
from your marbles.
You have to narrow the field so that a reasonable pile of resources can
be used to have impact. Most people are way too broad. Build your
hit list, the segment of the segment of the segment of the market that
you are then going to “farm”.
“Farm” is a real estate term it essentially means that you pick a tiny
little subdivision and you call that your farm and everybody in there
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gets mailings from you, you door knock, you’re at the PTA meeting,
you’re out there on Halloween giving away pumpkins, you’re out there
driving around your magnetic signs on your car every day up and down
those streets. You really work that farm. Real estate agents are good
at it… it’s a perfectly viable technique and I teach it in “Magnetic
Marketing”. You’ll drive through a neighborhood and see one Realtor’s
sign and you’ll hardly ever see anyone else’s. That means she’s doing
a good job. That means she “owns’ that territory.
You have to take the same approach. You have to carve out a territory
that is manageable to you and spread out all over the country by
territory I mean it may be 500 names on a list. Then you have to be
like “ever present”. Then you have to “farm” it. Which means “be
there, be there, be there, be there.”
That may or may not mean physically. For many years, one of my
“farms” was NSA. I’m going to use this as an example. I mean I
farmed it. I mailed the hell out of it, I advertised in the publications, I
went to every event, I maid sure I was visible at every event. I did all
the manual labor stuff. I contributed to the foundations and charities. I
went and spoke at the local chapters. I was ever present.
The most common remark from someone when they finally attended
something bought something or called me up to find out who my client
was “it seems like I’ve been getting a piece of your mail for like 5 years
and it’s like you’re there every day. I read most of it, but it’s like Jesus,
how the hell can you make any money by sending out all that mail to
everybody?”
“Well, you just gave me $15,000. I mean that pays for a lot of stamps.
They don’t connect the stamps. So one thing, if you must go cold, is
farm. Another thing is, if you have a short hit list and you like to get
face to face, then it’s all about being relentless.
What’s the name of the guy that owns the recording studio in New
York? Garren? So she (Sydney Biddle Barrows) and I are recording
her sales training program in the recording studio in New York and we
supervised her for a while and then she’s off running and doing a
monologue part and I’m not interviewing her and she’s fine by herself
and Steve and I are ignoring her and talking about other stuff right?.
Well, this guy’s got a really interesting background, an interesting guy.
He used to be a regional rep for this pizza oven company that makes a
conveyor kind of pizza oven instead of a regular one and he had to get
it into places in New York. And New York, being like the United States
capital of pizza, no one ever thought anyone would buy pizza made on
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one of these conveyor ovens because it’s less good. So there’s this
guy in New York that’s like the “Franchise King” because any kind of
franchise he owns it. He owns like all the TGIFridays, he owns all the
Ben and Jerry’s, he owns everything. He had just bought the master
franchise for “Godfathers Pizza.” So Steve wants to get in and sell him
these conveyor ovens and of course the guy doesn’t want to meet with
him.
So Steve is telling me this story, understand this is not a Kennedy guy,
so this didn’t come from me, he figured this out on his own, everyday, I
send him another one of my business cards, stapled to another letter,
stapled to the pizza brochure. Now I forget the number, but it was
something like 93 days or 112 days or whatever it was and finally the
phone rings and it’s the guy. He says “How the “F” do I get you to stop
sending me all these damn business cards? I got more of your
business cards than you got.” Steve says “no you don’t, I get them
printed 10,000 at a time, there’s more coming.” The guy asked “how
do I stop this?” Steve says “Meeting…it will stop”. So he gets the
meeting.
Now hardly anybody is that relentless. They’re just not. There’s a
great story in Donnie Deutch’s book about them persuading I forget
which car company and every day to the CEO’s home he had
delivered a car part attached to the sales letter. So one day the fender
arrives, the next day a bumper arrives, the next a hood arrives the next
day, part of the engine arrives. So the CEO is thinking “I got to stop
this because it’s a pain in the ass to throw out all these car parts.” So,
he get’s the appointment.
The third thing to know is that when you are selling cold. It is even
more important not to sell. You really can’t do a lot of take away early
because you worked so hard to get in. You can’t switch that on a dime
right? What you can do is be really, really diagnostic. The way not to
be salesy is to ask a lot of questions and get people to tell you things.
Now what you should know is that people are dying to tell their story
and their problems to someone who expresses genuine interest in
hearing it. The higher up the ladder by the way, the less likely they are
to have anyone that they have to do that to. They are dying to tell their
story.
One of my great questions is “how did you get into this business
anyway?” They’re dying to tell that story. They’ve polished that story
and they’ve got that story perfected and it’s the equivalent of the “how
did you two meet anyway?” story. So they got this thing down. And
they usually have it as a little two person “George Burns and Gracie”
comedy act.
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This guy is dying to tell his story and then it’s like the essay questions,
you don’t ask yes and no questions, you ask “what’s the biggest
change that’s happened in your business or industry in the last year?”
or “what’s really changing in the farm and implement business?” and
you have to really act interested because he’s dying to tell you. Or ask
him “what drives you nuts?” He’s dying to tell you that and complain
about his employees. Now, you can start to direct it to whatever you
sell.
So then my directed questions are “so how do you feel about your
advertising and your marketing?” By the way, I deliberately use the
word feel. This is where they tell you “the shit doesn’t work.” And “I
hate the ad agencies” and they go on and on. You can start to direct it
where you want to go. And you continue asking questions and
nodding and grunting and appropriately reacting for as long as they’ll
talk.
Twenty minute interviews turn into two, three or four without difficulty at
all. I’ve made some of the biggest sales of my life this way. You just
have to be really patient. Like Bill said this morning, if you ask direct
questions, they now buy you. They make the sale for themselves.
They arrive at the point of “what can you do for me?” Or “how does
this work?”.
That’s what you have to do when you sell yourself cold. Of course,
you have to “wow” them. If you are going to send them stuff at some
point, you can’t be sending them a damn brochure. Everyone is
sending them a brochure. They have fireplaces for that.
Especially in a niche, if you see their mail in the speaking business, it
goes in cycles. When I was chasing speaking gigs a lot, it was the trifold brochure with a picture on the front of them with a microphone with
no audience and our old joke was a picture on the front of them with a
microphone and no audience and inside a picture of him standing next
to Norman Vincent Peale with Norman trying to get away from him like
he’s trying to catch a bus and that was everybody’s brochure.
The meeting planner, had them all laid out on the table and they all
look alike and they’re all interchangeable. Today, in our business, the
speaking business by the way, it’s the “one sheet” so everyone’s
figured out that they can get cheap. Everyone wants a one sheet so
that they can email it Jesus. But everybody does it, so if you’re going
to send him something you’d better “wow” him. Like, you’d better send
him a lot of stuff and you’d better send him all the ammo you got.
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I showed you that I did that one brochure once that one year, and the
rest of the time I’ve always just used my stuff. When a client inquiry
get’s to a certain point, we take all the books and we like Post-It notes
to relevant sections, we get some C’s a good pile of testimonial letters,
we put it all in a big box and we send it to them. Well, nobody sends
him all that crap, we send bobble heads. Who sends them a bobble
head of a guy on a bull? And nobody’s going to throw that out. I don’t
know what they’re going to do with them, but they aren’t going to chuck
them. I’ve had people tell me that they didn’t know what to do with
them so their kids got them, or they have them on the shelf in their
office and people will ask them about it and they don’t know why they
have it on the shelf in the office, but they just don’t feel they should
throw it out. That’s perfect!
I’ve sent clocks, and now it’s more about media and my book
promotion, so I have an interview coming up in a magazine and I
started sending that guy stuff a year ago. I never really asked him for
anything I just sent him stuff and more stuff and more stuff and more
stuff and now, once the interview is booked, I’ve sent him my time
management wall clock, I sent him 2 bobble heads so he has one for
his kid, I sent him one of every book with Post-It noted sections that he
should read. I’m dripping on him between now and the interview.
Here’s what everybody else does. They send him a “press kit”, two
pockets, business cards stuffed in the four corners, and he gets like 20
of those a week and they are all interchangeable.
So if you are going to “cold prospect” and you’re going to send people
“stuff”, you’d better really “wow” them with the stuff. It’s better if it isn’t
always “pretty” because people always send them “pretty”. Depending
on the market, some of it has to be pretty, but not all of it has to be
pretty and amongst the stuff the best thing you can send is a book or
books. Nothing has more assumed expert status than “you wrote a
book”.
I brought with me, some of them are embarrassing actually, you can
take a look at some of these later on the break if you want to. Here’s a
copywriter guy, John Francis Tigue. He has that quote that I really like.
“In the country of the blind a one-eyed man is king” and he wears an
eye patch.
You understand the importance of the quote to consultants and
coaches? See, you don’t have to know everything; you just have to
know more than they do. This is a good book, see I’ve got it Post-It
noted and highlighted and stuff, but really it’s his calling card. It’s a
promotional book and it’s self published, which he could have done a
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little bit better job of making it look real if he’d have thought about it.
But there’s not much to it it’s 80 some odd pages, the chapters are
short. The chapters start all the way down on the page. He pretty
much wrote the fewest number of pages that you can bind. He pretty
much did as little as a person could do, to be able to have a book
instead of a brochure. He’s done very, very well as a copywriter with
this tool.
Way back, this is really a little crappy thing but it made us both a lot of
money, Bill Brooks and I did one together to save money because
neither one of us had much money, on time management. There’s not
much to it. If you look at it, we covered whole pages with graphics. To
write less, you got to use graphics. Charts are good. Here’s a whole
chapter. Quotes and fill a page with a piece of clip art. It really doesn’t
matter. It’s a book
Brooks actually did more with this than I did, but both of us made a lot
of money with this little book. I used this for years. You guys probably
haven’t seen this have you? I’ll be there’s a hundred thousand of
these out there and all this is old columns and newsletter material and
monologue stuff put together in a book with a lot of pictures and clip art
and graphics and stuff. I was in a hurry like I always am, so this is like
slopped together on a Saturday.
Here is one of my NSA positioning books. Let’s see when was this
done? It’s like 1981 and the introduction is done by a very young Mark
Victor Hansen and we both had hair. This book is typeset on the
typewriter. For those of you who don’t know, a typewriter is the thing
with the roller and keys. The right side is not justified because I didn’t
want to take the time. I know how to do it on a typewriter, you have to
type it twice and then go back and take the units out and it’s a big pain
in the ass, so I didn’t even justify the right side. I typed it and we
printed it and put a cover on it.
This thing probably made me, I don’t know, about half a million bucks.
There’s a direct pitch in it for a course, so there’s a lot of courses and
essentially there’s what you’d call my “brochure” in the middle with
resources, services and so forth. We just mailed this to every NSA
member. That’s what we did. This was better than a direct mail piece.
This book I ghost wrote for a franchiser, Don Dwyer, carpet cleaning
franchising and an instant elevation of him above the other competing
franchises because he’s the author of the book on how to be
successful in business. The franchise prospects getting the Service
Master pitch, he’s getting like four or five carpet cleaning franchise
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pitches, the only franchiser who’s written the book on how to be
successful is Don.
So you have to send him stuff that “wows” him, a big box of stuff. If you
happen to have a lot of testimonials, Steven asks me how many books
is right because Steven’s got like 19 books and some of them are like
the Manhattan phone book. It’s like big, heavy, a thousand pages, no
ones ever going to read the whole thing.
Oh yeah, it’s really entertaining, don’t flatter yourself. It’s a really good
book but entertaining it isn’t. Painful would be a better description.
Worth the pain by the way, but painful and nobody’s ever going to read
it, he’s never read it. Nobody is ever going to read all this that you
send them. That’s not the point. The point is that you have more stuff
than anybody else’s got. So you have to be a genius. If he sent all 19
books, believe me, the guy doesn’t have long enough to live to read all
the stuff even if he wanted to, but holy crap! Look at all this stuff!
Larry Dolan, a speaker friend of mine that came out of LMI, used to
send one of those big boxes that come filled with reams of paper?
He’d fill it up with his testimonial letters, put duct tape around it and
send it out to the prospect. Is anyone ever going to actually read all of
those testimonial letters? No, they don’t have to. That’s not the point.
The point is the bulk in this case. They might read a few of them but
after that, it’s like “enough already, I get it”. And the other four guys
sent me a tri-fold brochure. So if you are going to cold prospect, “wow”
them.
Question: Two questions, first topic is testimonials and endorsed mailings. Do you
spend a lot of time on talking about controlling your message, what’s said
about you? I’ve also heard you speak about the fact that testimonials, when
written by you sound canned and contrived, and it’s better for each person.
By the same token, guiding them to get the message across, how do you
ask for what you want, get what you want in testimonials an endorsed
mailings, while having a nice mix of original thought and sound.
Dan:
Personally, I am blessed in the sense that most of the testimonials I
get are from people we have educated about good testimonials. So, I
get a lot of good ones that don’t need doctoring.
Question: I have people I can get them from, but I don’t think they have any idea
what it sounds like.
Dan:
One answer is you’ve got to show them samples. Some people make
up little checklists of, “I don’t want you to lie, but if any of these seven
things are true.”
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Sometimes you ought to just, if it’s important enough to you and there’s
few enough of them, interview them by phone or in person. Get it all.
Get it transcribed. Go back and tweak it.
We just went through this with our corporate client. Bill and I are doing
a lot of work for Miracle Ear, and they have 1,200 stores. They’re in the
hearing aid business, and it actually frankly didn’t occur to me that one
of the problems we were going to face was no testimonials. First of all,
there’s 1,200 stores so you would think, “Well, hell, everybody’s got to
have one.”
So, I’ve got to be only have 1,200 to choose from, and I mean it’s an
emotional purchase. The testimonials should naturally be about
grandkids and birds.
Well, for starters, they were like, “Huh? What? Testimonial?”, because
they’re not using any in their advertising – none, zero, zip, nothing. A
few of the franchise owners including a couple who were already
Glazer Kennedy Inner Circle members that started moving in that
direction. They had a testimonial book in their lobby.
Then, most of them had had to fill out a testimonial questionnaire
which they had cleverly constructed to get nothing but blindingly dull
ordinary information.
The first thing they send me is all these filled out questionnaires which
are, “How would you rank your experience at your Miracle Ear center –
satisfactory or unsatisfactory?” The essay part of that is, “Marge was
very nice to me.” Well, I’m kind of looking for, “I’m a retired rock
musician whose hearing went because of playing back-up for the
Rolling Stones. Until I got your thing, I couldn’t hear my grandkids.”
That’s what I’m looking for.
Well, they have no idea. So, it took us a lot of effort to get them with
samples including I wrote fakes. I wrote them and said, “Here, go find
one.” We finally through an enormous pain and struggle have arrived
at about 30 to 35. I knew that they’re there. It’s just nobody was doing
the right things to get them.
When you are actively involved in doing them that way, you’re right the
trick is to avoid having them all sound like you wrote them. So, you’ve
got to try and capture their voice when you take them.
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Question: Is there a difference between the purpose and sound of a testimonial
versus the structure and message of an endorsed mailing, for
example?
Dan:
Not much, you really want – the only thing added to the endorsed
mailing is sort of the way the guy gets into it. “I’ve written you and sent
you this letter because we’re both members of the Elks, and I know like
me, you…”
There’s got to be some entry into giving the testimonial, and then you
have to decide what kind of exit you want out of it. That’s everything
from a lift note saying, “Read all of this stuff enclosed,” sometimes
actually until the PS. I’ve arranged with Barry to give you a free half
hour consultation because you and I are buddies, but you’ve got to
read this stuff and call him right away so you can go all the way into
the offer in the endorsed mailing.
In some rare cases, I’ve done the entire pitch redone in the voice of the
endorser. So, there’s like a 24 page sales letter rewritten as if it came
from the endorser. That’s fairly rare, but there are times when you can
do that.
Question: Craig’s does that right, uses the real estate agent as the front phase?
Dan:
Actually, he owns her. It’s an endorser, but she’s owned. Writing in
other people’s voices is like the freelance copywriter’s task. From a
copywriting standpoint, those of you who have worked at learning
copywriting, to learn to do it for yourself, the next step of difficulty is
actually doing it for other people.
To do it for yourself, you only have to do it in your voice. I’ve got to be
able to write for fifty different people, and not have it all sound like Dan
wrote it.
So, like having them on audio and being able to hear, that kind of thing
is helpful. I just wrote for, one of the things we’re using at Miracle Ear
is the original inventor of the product is like 70-some odd years old.
He’s like John Wayne. He was in the Battle of the Bulge, and he was
shot down three times. He escaped on bicycle through France. I mean,
for real. The guy’s a real honest to God incredible war hero, that
they’re not using for nothing. So, I’m writing in his voice.
Well, I went and got a bunch of war history magazines because I want
to hear how old eighty year old people say thing, and I didn’t really
have access to him. So, I had to do some work to get it.
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Back at Guthy Renker years ago when I wrote for Tarkentor, Fran
came out of the recording booth and said, “I don’t know who you think
you’re writing too bud, but there’s too many words in these sentences.
I’m a short sentence guy. I don’t need these complex sentence
structures. It’s not how I talk, and I can’t handle it. I get lost. I don’t
know where I’m at.”
I wrote for Joan Rivers, so I listened to umpteen Joan Rivers comedy
records and read Joan’s book. Then, you can do it, but testimonies
don’t do all at the same time.
Don’t sit down and do four or five of them all at the same time, but
certainly if you’re only doing a few and you have the luxury to do it,
interview them, tape them, massage them, and basically you’re doing
befores and afters whenever you can.
Okay, you have a second question?
Question: Yes, I know you guys created the IMA association. Here’s the question. How
do you feel – you said to ask questions, how do you feel – how do you feel
about creating an association or even a school that certifies sales people in
a niche with ascension to multiple levels like College 101 or College 201,
therefore creating all kinds of back end alumni meetings, requiring
continuing education for free, teleclasses, certificates, branded materials, all
that kind of stuff.
Second to that, is what do you feel are the important components of
something like that and what are the associated traps?
Dan:
Well, you answered your second questions with your description in
your first question. The most important component in all of that is they
got to believe it’s real.
So, look, the only reason Harvard works is because everybody has
accepted the fact that Harvard is Harvard. The fact that a bunch of us
sat in a room at some point time with William James and made the
whole damn thing up in order to make some money, that’s long since
forgotten.
If you’re going to make it real, real association, real in continuing
education credits, first of all, you’re going to have some legal
compliance issues varying industry by industry, state by state. If you’re
going to take a school position, you have legal compliance issues.
Most people ignore all that stuff, but if you start, for example, most
states have a version of a private and technical school board, which if
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you have physical presence in the state, governs the use of such
words as schools and colleges and universities and all of that even on
a distance basis. There’s law in the field. Gene Kelly’s our distance
learning guy. He can, on a break, wave your hand Gene so he knows
who you are, Gene can tell you all.
Robert Skrob who’s right up here. You asked me where he was. He’s
right up here in front. He is Mr. Association, so he’s formed
associations for Scott and for others either here or not here.
I think it is a long road requiring some patience. I think it’s a very real
and viable approach to this business. I think it is for some people, it’s
just an alternative front end, and that’s okay too.
I think it is a very valuable asset once built, and all of the things you
named – certifications, levels with prerequisites, distance and live
learning, feeding into coaching, alumni societies, accreditation,
university book store, on and on. I think all of those are the component
parts, the thing that either makes it work or doesn’t make it work is a
sense that it is real, a sense that this is the thing in our business we
do.
The chiropractors in the room and the people that work with the
chiropractic profession, there’s thing in chiropractor called the Parker
Foundation. It doesn’t have the power it once had, but for almost a
decade Parker was, if you were a chiropractor, what you did is you
went to Parker. That’s what you did. So, the conversation was, “You
going to Parker?” “Of course, I’m going to Parker. I’ll see you at
Parker.” Everybody went to Parker, and the Parker Foundation was
like viewed as some thing it wasn’t. I mean, it was a thing that the
Parker family put together to make money. That’s what it was.
It had an accepted position in the industry as this benign foundation
and premier training organization and event of the year, in a sense, the
national convention of the profession.
The Madow brothers have managed to do it in dentistry to some
extent, and so Parker was at it’s peak, 35,000 in chiropractic, there’d
be 5,000 people at Parker, and you went for five days. Every vendor
exhibited. They took over Vegas.
They go slow and steady and painstaking, but a huge asset because
you now have, vendors will give you money when they won’t give us
money under normal circumstances. Big companies will come play
when big companies won’t play with us and so forth.
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The second thing is creating the position of, “This is what you do.”
They don’t get it quite done, but it’s sort of the position the chamber
tries to take on a local basis, and the position the Better Business
Bureau tries to take is, “Oh, you’re a small business in Cleveland.
What you do is you join the Cleveland Better Business Bureau. That’s
what you do.”
It’s not like it’s an option. It’s like that’s what you do. So, that’s the
second thing that you try and get to, and then third is sort of optional
but helpful. If the thing delivers something to them that is actually
useful in the marketplace in either getting business or getting better
business, or making a sale.
You are able to create a credibility device for them that is actually
helpful in their business, has some teeth, can be taken away from
them - those three component parts.
Question: I have a couple of questions. Prior to the break, you talked about cold
calling, acquiring customers that method. When you do that, or when
you did thatDan:
I didn’t actually say cold call. I said get them cold. There’s a difference.
Question: Getting them cold, did you then put them in your intake process, or
what happened once you made the contact, you sent them the
material, got the first meeting?
Dan:
As I said, you lose the ability to do much takeaway positioning when
you’re doing that, going directly at them cold because it’s so
incongruent that you can’t flip them on a dime.
So, when you’re in one way shape or form trying to get to a face-toface, it’s hard to simultaneously be doing takeaway. Now, if you sneak
up entirely, so you’re going into the interview the CEO for a book on
that auspices and now good conversation occurs, and “Gee, maybe we
should do something together,” and so forth, you could take him out
back now, drop him through a process.
If you’re going to an appointment, and now you’re going in
fundamentally to do a sales presentation, who’s kidding who? You’re
going in to do a sales presentation.
There’s not much a process to it at that point. It relies on you. You do
sacrifice some control issues by doing that. That’s why it’s the least
desirable way to get clients.
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The perversity of consulting is this, and it’s why being talked about is
so important. Here’s the example that I always use. Let’s say we’re all
out in the hall here on the break at somebody else’s meeting so, I’m an
attendee just like you are, he is, everybody else is.
I hear the two of you guys talking, and you’re complaining about this
problem you got in your business. Your conversation, let’s make it
something simple. Let’s say it’s employee theft, and you’re telling him
how you know your employees all steal from you.
I hear the conversation, and I’m the guy. I’m the theft solution guy, and
I can solve your problem in ten seconds. If I turn and tap you and say,
“Couldn’t help but overhear your conversation, but I’m the theft guy,
and I can solve your problem.”
You are mentally, if not physically backing away from me, and raising
every kind of resistance known to man because I’m overt. Everybody’s
attitude, unfortunately, about being presented an idea by someone
selling it to them is resistance.
Same scenario, he’s standing there. He taps and says, “Sorry I
couldn’t help but overhear the conversation. I don’t know if you know
the guy, but he’s actually here at this conference. This Kennedy guy
who’s here somewhere, he’s in the blue shirt. He’s the theft guy. He
knows how to solve your problem.” You will now come find me.
Everything will go different from that point out. I can do pure takeaway,
“I’d love to help you, but I’ve got to go. You’ve got to call the office.” I
can do all that shit. When I approach you, I can’t do it.
Your attitude is different. I’m restricted in the techniques and strategies
that I can use in handling you. That’s why cold, overt prospecting is the
worst thing in the world you can do.
If you speak, even if you are overt in the speech, you can still be, you
can tell the story of, “Hey, when I was over in consulting with XYZ
company, I did this, this and this happened. Oh by the way, I do
occasionally…” you can still now do takeaway, but you can be overt, “I
do occasionally accept new clients. It’s not necessarily immediate
availability, but if that interests anybody before you leave.” Then, you
can move on.
They’re still now coming to you, but when you’re going to them, you
lose a lot of the ability to do a lot of the really good things, and you
exchange them in trade for being an overt prospector.
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While you may choose or need to do it for a brief period of time, you’ve
got to get away from it as quickly as you can. The heart surgeon
doesn’t make cold calls. He doesn’t telemarket. He doesn’t send out
cold direct mail.
At the top end of every pyramid here, nobody makes cold calls. At the
bottom end, everybody makes cold calls. Somewhere in between,
there’s less and less of it.
The minute you start doing cold prospecting in any way shape or form
that is perceived as cold prospecting, you are putting yourself in the
eyes of the prospect at the bottom of the pyramid.
It’s not that heart surgeons are above doing it. They just have figured
out it’s not particularly effective for them. So, you’ve got to get away
from it just as soon as you can.
Now, lead generation cold prospecting, even that’s relatively overt, but
now you can at least put them through a little process. So, now you
think about, like our IBAs, if they bring everybody in through he
greatest free gift offer.
Our piece looks like this, if you haven’t seen it. So, that signs
somebody up for the free three month trial. Then, they get to our free
chapter meeting. Now, they see the guy in action at the chapter
meeting.
Those first two steps were pretty overt, but now he gets to switch gears
in the context of the chapter meeting to being, “We’ve got a
mastermind group that we only have a few spaces left in. You’ve got to
fill out an application. We’re selective.” He’s able to switch gears
because he had this feeder device at the bottom.
If you have to cold prospect, and you have the ability to take the time,
you build a feeder device at the bottom so you can be over at the
bottom, and then at someplace in time make the switch.
Question: Instead of having a quick question, I have a brief inquiry. I can’t take
credit for it, but I won’t divulge who it is. It’s in the area of damaging
admissions. For example, divulging your realities. Is there a timing to
get maximum benefit when you’re doing a damaging admission?
Do you wait until it’s over? For example, bankruptcy, do you make that
admission to your folks at the time?
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Not if you can help it. There’s no set answer to your question, and if
there are problems that have any likelihood of surfacing, then the worst
thing in the world you can do is hide them. The cover up is worse than
the crime, and so everybody gets themselves in trouble with the cover
up. There’s no set answer to your question.
What’s more useful to think about is how do you use it even more so
than when to use it. You want an opportunity to be able to put it in
context.
So, again, because of these Dan is god things on the left side of the
ledger, the Dan has been and actually is horribly dysfunctional things
on the right side of the ledger are useful.
If this is not there, these things could be insurmountable. It’s about
context. If you have no alternative, you face whatever disaster you are
facing, if not at the moment, certainly soon not later.
There’s no pat answer to your question.
Question: Is there something like you can do an attachment? For example, Robert
Kiyosaki about how he did this, or Trump talked about how he did this.
Do you do that, or those are two big of a bridge to try to tie together?
Dan:
No, I don’t think they are. We had, I insisted on it when I worked with
him, and I stopped working with him in part because he refused to
honor it.
We had a situation with James Tollison’s business in Arizona of having
been previously convicted and served five years in an out of state
penitentiary, and prior to that having been sued by the Pennsylvania
state Attorney General’s office. I insisted it all be on the order form.
People had to sign that particular place on the order form that they had
read all of this horrid stuff and knew it before they bought this $5,000
course. What it forced everybody to do was deal with it before they got
to the point of the order form. So, we had sales reps and seminars and
so forth. Now it had to be dealt with. You would think it would
suppress sales, but actually if anything, it worked the other way. It was
presented, but still. It’s about as ugly as I said and actually worse.
Look, you can build a bridge from anything to anything. You just have
to figure out how to do it. It is by profound conviction. There is no
mess, no scandal, no disaster that is big enough to stop people from
giving somebody money.
It’s just a question now of how they handle that presentation.
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This is sort of an answer to the cold prospecting thing, too. I’m still on
how to get a client, and how to get a client cold if you must, but also
how to create them to coming to you.
Not that anybody remembers the sales letter, but one of the things I
promised you while you were here was my number one career
strategy, and it also refers to something I told you yesterday which was
the worst news you could hear the entire time you were here which is
you’ve got to be a good writer.
The single best tool you will ever have for a whole variety of purposes
including this one getting people to come to you and ask you to help
them, or advise them is a newsletter.
It allows you to put it in front of people in a herd, and people not in a
herd. The nice thing about newsletter amongst other benefits, is that
busy successful people subscribe to a bunch of them, and in many
cases, they don’t remember what the hell they subscribed to and what
they didn’t subscribe to.
You can take a target list and start sending them a newsletter marked,
“Here is your copy of your paid newsletter this month,” and even
though they didn’t subscribe it, since they’re getting it, and it says they
did, they figure they must have. They’ll now paid just as much attention
to it as if they had.
Do you need me to say that again? Yes. Busy successful people
subscribe to a lot of newsletters. In most cases, they don’t remember
what they subscribed to half of the time. If it arrives and says, “Here’s
this month’s copy of your paid subscription newsletter,” since it says
that I must have paid for it, and since I paid for it, I’m not going to throw
it out. It’s not junk mail anymore because I paid for it. So, I’ll read it.
You can create a farm, a subscriber base that you deliver a newsletter
to who never opted-in to it, never subscribed to it, but now will pay just
as much attention to it as if they had.
Now, it’s better if they subscribe to it. Let me give you a couple of
examples. There’s somebody doing it to me right now, by the way, and
it took me three months before I noticed, which is really very cool.
I get a lot of health newsletters. I subscribe to a lot of health newsletter
one because I do copywriting work in that category, and I want to get
all the junk mail. The way to get a lot of junk mail is to subscribe to a
bunch of stuff because then you get all the junk mail.
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So, I really wanted the junk mail as much as I want the newsletters, but
you’ve got to buy the newsletters if you want the junk mail. If they let
me subscribe to the junk mail, I’d just subscribe to the junk mail, but
they won’t.
I get a lot of them. I don’t know twenty, thirty, forty of them a month. I
don’t know what they hell I’ve subscribed to and what I haven’t
subscribed to, but I pay attention to them all.
I also pay attention to them for personal reasons. I’m diabetic, so I
notice now this month’s. Here’s the envelope and it Dr. So-and-So’s
newsletter, and here’s this month’s issue of your paid subscription
newsletter.
I’ve been reading it for three months, and I started to think again as I
was reading it this month, “I sure as hell don’t remember subscribing to
this thing.” We do have a file somewhere, so I now go dig. Well, I never
did subscribe to this thing.
He’s doing this. He’s renting a list, and he’s sending it out like it was a
paid subscription newsletter. Well, it’s the best teaser copy you can
ever put on an envelope other than “Photo enclosed, do not bend.” It
immediately moves it over from the B pile to the A pile because you
paid for it.
It’s a little deceptive, but it is brilliant. So, I come home from NSA in 19whatever with Buster Crabbe on the plane, and I got a client, and I
decided to start a newsletter.
So, my very first newsletter was for speakers, and it was called,
“Marketing your Services,” and it was $179 a year. The NSA market at
that time was maybe 3,000 people. I mailed the crap out of them to get
people to subscribe at $179 a year, and I got four or five hundred
subscribers in a period of five or six months. Then, I just sent it to the
rest of them as if they had paid to subscribe to it. I treated them all as
paid subscribers. I took the money from the ones I could get money
from, and I sent it to the rest of them as if they had given me money.
Really, I wanted to be in front of them and build the reputation in that
small community and in that small constituency.
Now, let’s say for the sake of conversation that you want to market to
CEOs of the 500 biggest companies in Minneapolis. You go home and
you start the success secrets newsletters for CEOs of large Minnesota
companies. You pick your hit list, and you make sure you’ve got their
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names and titles and all that stuff right, even if you have to do phone
calls in order to get. To look perfect, it’s got to be perfect.
Then, you start sending them their paid newsletter that they never
subscribed to. Before you know it, you’re going to get responses for
things you lead generate for in the newsletter. Pretty soon, somebody’s
going to call you up and say, “Can you come over to my company and
talk about this?”
They will never know that they weren’t a paid subscriber, and you need
never tell them.
If I need to, I can do that a third time for you, but you shouldn’t need to
hear it a third time.
I have never been without at least one newsletter since 1978, and in
some cases, I have had three or four or five. Some have been real.
Some have not been real, meaning some people have been paying for
them, some people only thought they had paid for them. Some had
been constructed for very small constituencies for brief periods of time
only to set up the entry into those constituencies.
I briefly flirted about a year, year and a half ago with doing something
with all the freelance professional copywriters there are in the country.
There’s a bunch of them in one directory, so they’re easy fine, which is
what tempted me. It’s almost like déjà vu of NSA for me. I’m one of
them. I know how they think. I know how they behave. Here there are
all in one place, so I don’t have to go hunt for them.
I know most of them are starving which is good news. They actually
publish their fees, so I know who is getting paid what. They publish
their clients. I know who they’re working for. For me to go after them
would be formulaic.
One of the things I would do if I was going after, is I would start a
newsletter for professional copywriters. I would take a run through that
list and get as many of them to subscribe as possible for money, and
then I would treat them all as if they had subscribed for a period of
time. Then, I would set them up for the series of kills, be that seminar,
be that coaching program, whatever.
I talked myself out of it because I don’t have enough time to do it, but if
I was going to do it, that’s what I’m going to do. You should see the list
of stuff I talked myself out of. It’s not as long as it needs to be, but you
ought to see the list I’ve talked myself out of.
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Over the years, I’ve had marketing services for speakers. I’ve had a
practice building newsletter for chiropractors, dentists, veterinarians
and podiatrists, when we went into the chiropractors and dental fields.
That’s had as many as 2,000 and some odd paid subscribers.
The forerunner to the No BS letter was a thing called the Business
Secrets letter, and then No BS Marketing Letter has been around since
1991, much more primitive than what you see today, but nevertheless,
and of course the No BS, the affluent letter, the info letter.
These have produced well over – either directly or indirectly – half all of
my money. They are the foundation for everything, and again, IBAs in
the room have an advantage in the local consulting businesses
because we’re providing that for them. They’ve already got a
foundation, but as you grow and getting bigger and more sophisticated,
or those of you that are building national constituencies, you’ve got to
do this.
One of the answers to your dilemma, wherever he went - where did Mr.
Cold Call Prospecting go? There you are. I thought you got mad and
left. This is one of the answers to a dilemma like that.
If you must go cold, then turn cold into warm sneakily. So, take your
constituency, create a newsletter for them, get those who will
subscribe to subscribe, then treat the rest of them as if they had, and
build that relationship over four or five or six or seven or eight months.
It usually won’t take that long for somebody to start coming to you.
It doesn’t take much demonstration anymore of competence to start
attracting money because there is so little of it. Forget expertise.
Competence, people take notice that you actually were able to get a
newsletter out every month for three months. Somewhere one of your
prospective clients says, “I got the same grey envelope three months
in a row. I better talk to this guy, because I want to know how he’s
getting anybody to get anything out three months in a row.”
I’m serious. It doesn’t take much of a show of competence anymore in
order to attract a lot of money. Woody Allen is right, fifty percent of it is
showing up. Now, the other fifty percent is pretty critical, but when you
think of it, the whole first half is showing up. Holy cripe, you managed
to show up.
In the restaurant industry, you get promoted from fry cook to regional
manager in about six months if you can manage to just show up. Show
up sober, oh my god, you’re like VP in a hurry. They’re like wildly
impressed. That is really the good news for all of us. It takes less and
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less to impress people because everything around them is like worse
and worse and worse.
This is a leapfrog to the top of the hill tool because being the
writer/editor of a prestigious specialized newsletter is like being the
author of the book. You don’t have to wait to get the book printed. You
can do this tomorrow.
Now, the newsletter doesn’t have to be like spectacular, but it can’t be
crap either, and there’s a whole host of things you want to get good at
doing when you do one of these things, and that’s a whole nother
topic.
This has been my key, so if you want my key, that’s the key –
newsletter or newsletters used in a very strategic way.
The other way to get them cold is going all the way back to the sort of
classic JPDK information business model of you lead generate with
paid advertising. There is no secret to what you are doing, and you get
people to raise their hands and request information.
This is, if you’ve been paying attention, this is becoming an
increasingly common ad that used to by the way only be in magazines
for very rich people. This is fundamentally a consultant coach to help
actually most of the clients are of course, to help men with a lot of
money and zero social skills find trophy wives.
That’s what it is, and their consulting packages are in the $15,000 to
$75,000 range. How they get paid is a fee plus a performance bonus
on any relationship that last six months or longer, and another
performance bonus if they actually get married.
What I wanted to show you is it’s absolutely no different than, now
here’s a business ad. Well, here’s a classic business ad. Here’s the
Chauncey Hunter ad which is in the tax planning, how an amazingly
simple accidental secret allows you to instantly triple your tax business
in thirty days, take a vacation during the middle of tax season, and
drive you competition absolutely crazy by living your no-stress making
big money lifestyle, and ultimately it’s an offer for a free report.
That’s all this is, same deal. It is a story. Here’s an offer, and here’s
what to do next to get more information. It’s classic lead generation
advertising, and it’s overt.
Now, unlike the direct to appointment, it does allow this advertiser to
move backwards from being overt to being takeawayish, by virtue of
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the materials that get delivered when they raise their hand, and the
next step that gets put in front of them.
The next step, instead of a sales letter that sells a box, the next step
can be an application that has to be filled out in order to get a phone
appointment, for example. Now, we’re starting to reinstitute a takeaway
selling model even though we’ve had to go out and overtly generate a
lead.
Question: Which do you think is the best model? So, you sell the product first
with a forced continuity newsletter, or do you do the free one?
Dan:
There is no worst model or best model. There may be for a particular
individual in a particular set of circumstances. Ideally, in a perfect
world, you would have as I described to Harvey yesterday, you would
really have three businesses stacked on top of each other. I’ll be lazy.
I’ll draw it.
Think this. So, this one is sort of a traditional information marketing
business. We got product with forced continuity at the bottom. Then,
we have a higher level of continuity. Then, we have some kind of
coaching, and maybe we have another higher level of coaching.
Here is one on one stuff, we do it for you stuff, and then way up here at
the top is so, somebody’s going to give you $200,000 to completely
come and fix their mess or create their business from scratch. You can
run any one of these without the other two.
You could run this. You could run this. You could run this. You could
run this and this. You could run this and this. You could start here, and
actually go backwards. Under Utopian circumstances, somebody does
all three.
If you have this, you have no pipeline. What this does is give you a
pipeline where customers have a place to mature, where as when you
bring them directly in at the middle or high end, you’re always bringing
them in directly at the middle or the high end.
If you have the pipeline full of maturing customers for over a year or
two years or three years or four years or five years, you’re getting
ready, at some point in time, you no longer have to do anything in
order to fill the top two. They’re coming up out of the pipeline begging
to get there.
However, creating the bottom pyramid, that’s like a real business. Ask
Bill, it’s got infrastructure, and it’s got employees. It’s got products, and
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it’s got ads in twenty magazines in six step sequences. I’m not telling
you anything you don’t know.
For some people, I advise skipping it. For some people, I advise go
back and build it after you’ve got the other thing. For some people, I
say you’ve got to have it so go do that first and worry about the other
later.
In Charlie’s case, we had long conversations about this with Charlie.
Should he have that bottom? You’ve been privy to those
conversations, and the answer is yes he should, but as a practical
matter, he has no time to even pay attention to it.
His chair side value in his practice is so high that it’s hard to take him
away from the practice. Plus, like me, he has a longer things that he
should say no to than he says no to. He’s dental practice, spa, car
wash, real estate.
So, there’s no time, but the good news is there are resources. We
could skip all that, spend $9,000 to make the sale. Now, in three years,
he still has to go spend $9,000 to go get the next new guy to fill the
hole that just occurred, if we don’t go back and do this.
It’s almost which model is not the right question as to which model for
which person at which time in which order is really the right question.
It’s just that I wish there was a simple answer to your question. There
just isn’t.
It’s like in the area exclusive business, it’s like the to franchise or not
franchise question. A lot of it depends on do you want income or do
you want equity. I don’t know how helpful that was, but it’s the best I’ve
got.
Question: Can I give you a quick model? Try to sell a product first, go through all the
steps, and as a drop down offer, do the newsletter?
Dan:
Yes, sure, some people hide the newsletter.
Question: Don’t make it part of the first product offer?
Dan:
Well, there’s lots of ways to play with that. You can hide it all together
and use it as the drop down offer. You can go ahead and force
continuity on the product, but then still use it as a drop down offer if
you couldn’t get them to buy the product. You could actually run the
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two front ends against each other simultaneously. I’m not sure it would
make a difference.
For some period of time, both Hartunian and Yellen ran the give me
seven dollars, some version of that, and they had all their front ends
running at the same time.
In Success Track in the third and fourth year, we ran the Practice
Building Secrets Letter at the same time we were running come to free
seminars and see our speaker offer. About the only bad thing that
happens is like confusion.
Of course, if you have telesharks that confusion is a real virtue
because if they call and they’re confused, usually the question is which
one of these things should I do? Well, if you happen to have telesharks
in the room to answer that question, great. If you don’t it’s not as good,
but I’d still rather have a confused person on the phone than no person
trying to communicate at all.
We ran for two years. We ran a newsletter thing through the list all the
time, free newsletter. We didn’t do free trial continuity because we
didn’t know about it. We did free and then try and get them. We did the
customary model of “We’ll invoice you later.” We did the free book. We
did free book with call to 900-number to get the book, but you were
charged $3.99 a minute while you were on the phone getting the book.
We ran all that at the same time we were running our seminar
promotions. The other thing since you bring it up indirectly is what I
discovered a number of times. It’s a little beat to control trick, by the
way.
In the newsletter business, as everybody probably knows, the most
traditional offer is the giant bribe offer, is the subscribe to the
newsletter for X dollars, and you get this big mountainous pile of 56
free reports or 22 free CDs or whatever.
The two usual variations on that are one year, two year, three year
subscription and you get bigger and bigger piles of stuff depending on
whether you do the one year, the two year or the three year, or here’s
choice of 52 free reports, pick any eight free with your subscription.
Those are the most traditional things there are. In a number of cases,
that’s been a control. I’ve been able to just flip the control, make the
bribe package the $149 offer, and you get one year of the newsletter
free. One works the same as the other. The client runs through the list
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in January. The other one through the list in February. The other one in
March. The other one in April, etc. It’s a good beat the control trick.
Let’s talk about what we send people. I told you before you want to
wow them. You don’t want to be modest here. We’ll get through this
pretty quick, and then we’ll take a break.
The big box strategy. I’m on page 67. Do you have any idea how much
you’ve spent? First of all, when did I get you, what year? Do you have
any idea how much you’ve spent? You came from the speaker box.
He came from this. This was used to sell seminars, but the point is the
same, so this thing has got two audio tapes in it. It’s got a video tape in
it. By the way Bill, this is the video I sent you the other day, and then
inside was a sales letter for the seminar. Then, the whole thing was
shrink wrapped. It was mailed with a label on the shrink wrap.
The box, by the way, has a guarantee. If you go through the whole
box, we’ll send you $25 if you wasted your time. We sent 4,000 of
them, 5,000 of them, 6,000 of them. We filled the seminar. If I really
thought hard, there’s probably at least five or six of you that have
moved from there. Roulac alone paid for the whole campaign,
everything else is gravy.
It’s expensive. It’s not cheap to do. They’re not cheap to make, and
they’re certainly not cheap to send especially in mass. If you just make
a few, you almost have to make them yourself or the cost is beyond.
So, what’s everybody else sending to sell a seminar to that list? Well,
they’re sending a sales letter in an envelope. If they’re really going big,
they’re adding a CD. Nobody is doing this, nobody.
The big box strategy I’ve now used again and again and again to sell
seminars, to sell coaching for consultants, business opportunities,
speakers to get speaking engagements. Nido Qubein who’s speaking
at the Super Conference, he has a big box that is – Steve and I were
talking about it on the break. I should’ve brought it. I have one
somewhere. It’s the big black one. It’s black with full color on the
outside, and the books are on the inside in die cut. The box is like a
foot this way. Maybe it looks like two Monopoly game boxes in size,
and it’s really thick and really high. It’s gorgeous. It’s black coated stuff
with gold and full color, professional picture of Qubein, and you open it
up. Like this one, there’s die cut holes, each one of this books with a
full color cover is in fit in one of the die cut holes. What else is in it
besides the books? There’s a CD, isn’t there? Yeah, there’s a CD, and
then there’s a client profile thing and a testimonial book. The thing is a
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behemoth. You would no more throw this in a wastebasket. You would
just feel ill. I mean, you would start maybe, and then you would – I got
it five six years ago. It’s in the Phoenix office. That’s why I didn’t bring
it. I can’t bring myself to throw it out, so it keeps moving from shelf to
shelf, place to place. I’ve pirated the books out of it, but I can’t bring
myself to throw the box out. It’s so pretty and it’s so big, and you feel
so guilty. You know he spent twenty, thirty, forty, fifty bucks on the
thing.
Nobody else does it. So, that sucker lands on your desk, it’s done
something. They are not tossing it. The gatekeeper ain’t tossing it.
They’re not tossing it. They’re at least going to open it. You’ve got a
shot.
For consulting client or a speaking engagement inquiry, that’s what
he’s sending. He’s sending the humungous, classy, beautiful,
incredible box.
The only thing he’s not doing that I would do is I might have all that
pretty stuff and I might have the beautiful pretty box, but then I’d have
an ugly 48 page sales letter in it that controlled lineally my message.
The big box thing works, purely because it is a big box. You can also
do it on a primitive ugly thing like Larry Dolan with the big ugly duct
tape and the box full of testimonial letters. That works too.
Some of it depends on the market, who you’re sending it too, but the
big box strategy is something you really ought to be aware of and
understand and think about.
Brochures, if you are going to insist on doing them, figure out a way to
make them slightly different from a normal brochure. I use the annual
report kind of look. For a while, I used a menu kind of look thing, a
menu of services.
Robert Ringer’s description in his Winning Through Intimidation of his
original brochure. Qubein’s first brochure when he was first starting out
was not the big box, but it was Robert Ringer description style.
The best thing about it which I copied shamelessly was the foldout
page, sort of like a Playboy centerfold for a frame of reference for you
Caruthers, sort of like a Playboy centerfold. The beauty of that was
once you fold it out, it’s kind of messy to get back in, so you have a
shot at somebody.
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Do something different. Publish, we already talked about that –
publish, publish, publish, white papers, special reports, surveys,
newsletter,
Placement in other people’s books, products and newsletters, this is
something that we didn’t talk about, and this is also no expertise are
required. Hardly anybody checks the references of the person who
submits good content to them, and a whole lot of people are starving
for content.
You could be published tomorrow in somebody else’s publication, and
that has reprint value. Almost every infomarketer at least puts out a
newsletter.
The Information Marketing Association, I think it’s every two months. Is
it every two months? Every month now, there’s a CD circulated of
shared copyright free, you can use it content. That’s every two months,
that’s what I thought. So, every two months, you get this CD, and
there’s all kinds of content on it, articles and whatever, interviews that
you can use in your newsletters. What’s important is if you’re an IMA
member, you can put your stuff on there. Now, your articles appear in
the Restaurant Marketing Systems newsletters. It’s appearing in our
newsletter. It’s appearing in Charlie Martin’s newsletter for dentist. It’s
appearing in Scott Tucker’s newsletter for mortgage brokers.
Everybody needs content.
They’re looking on that disc, and they’re picking off the stuff. Well, I
have made a huge point my entire time in this business and still do
today of getting in other people’s stuff. Why? I’m going to get their best
customers.
I shouldn’t say it exactly this way, but well first of all, in some cases, I
manage to figure out a way to get paid for it, but that doesn’t almost
matter.
Tucker’s a co-branded client, so Tucker gives me $140,000 in order to
cobrand with me. One of those things is he gets to use my content in
his stuff.
I should be paying him, but because here’s – think about this. If I go
into the mortgage broker niche somehow myself and get a mortgage
broker as a Glazer-Kennedy customer, I’ve got a mortgage broker as a
Glazer-Kennedy customer.
If I get a Scott Tucker customer as a Glazer-Kennedy customer, I’ve
already got a better, smarter customer. He already dealt with all the
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dummies. He already screened them and sifted and sorted them once.
He’s already taught them how to buy stuff. They’ve already been
through the whole process. I’ve got a trained buyer. I’m stealing his
best.
If you get them from five or six or eight or ten or twenty, I’d rather have
one for him, one from him, one from him, where they’ve already trained
them to be good customers. So, your article in somebody else’s
newsletter, whatever activity that produces for you is better activity that
you can produce in a trade journal in the same industry even though
the circulation is smaller.
You still have pretty good reprint value because you have the front
page of the office Restaurant Marketing newsletter and here you are,
and here’s your article.
Being in somebody else’s book, even if it’s a paragraph, so people ask
me for blurbs, I usually go back, I’ll give you the blurb, but let me write
the forward. Let me write the chapter. Here’s something you can put in
chapter six of your book. Here’s something you can put in chapter
eight of your book. I want to get seeded into their books. I want to get
seeded into their products. I want to be like everywhere like horse
manure. That’s where I want to be.
I want to be in everybody’s – so anytime you open anybody’s
something, shit Kennedy’s in there. I keep hearing about this Kennedy
guy, and here’s what we hear a lot, I probably shouldn’t say this either.
We hear, “I saw you in Tucker’s stuff. I saw you in Brian Sacks’ stuff. I
saw you in Tollison’s stuff. I figured out if they’re all getting their stuff
from you, I ought to come find you.”
That’s a really good customer because he’s bought three people’s
stuff, and he’s actually read it and listened to it, and he’s determined to
go hunt down me. Well, you can’t get a better guy. How could you get
a better person? You don’t have to be me to do that.
You don’t need twenty years experience. You could write your first
article tomorrow. If it’s a good article and it makes sense and it’s useful
and you’ve got some little credential and plug at the bottom,
somebody’s going to put it in their publication. As soon as you’re in
one, you can send that to everybody else, and you can domino it.
If you know anybody who’s doing business books, you try and get in
the book. We still get leads. I’m in Raleigh Pinsky’s book. We still get
leads. I hear from people, “I found you in this.”
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Our kind of business, even on a local level, your business if you’re an
IBA or a consultant in a niche, this is small numbers multiplied. You are
unlikely to find other than speaking, a source and way to get a whole
crapload of good clients from one place. You are more likely to get one
from here, one from there, one from here, one from there.
I have taken great pains to get mentioned, talked about, written about,
and included in as many things as I can. Even if being in Chauncy
Hutter’s stuff brings me one guy, he might be a Roulac. He might be
worth $150,000 over a period of time. How many do you need to have
justified making sure that you’re there?
Wealth Magnets
1. Be Somebody
2. Be Someplace
3. Do Something
Remember the original Wealth Magnets, be somebody, be some
place. This is what I mean by place. Be in these places. So, furnish
material to other people. Try and get yourself everywhere.
If you pay attention, I go out of my way to create this viral books that
everybody gives away. For me, it’s the Ultimate Success Secret book,
the one with the red cover, and the Farting Cat Book. Look, we’ve sold
now 150,000 plus copies of the Farting Cat Book. We ain’t making
much money on the Farting Cat Book. Pete makes a little. I make
even a littler little. My royalty is like little, little, little, little, but the
woman who works for us in the barn, who gave me the idea because I
heard her say, “Why do I always have to sit next to the farting cat?” I
wrote it down and said, “That would be a good book title.” So, I give
her a penny a book. She gets a royalty check. She’s ecstatic, but it
ain’t about the money from the Farting Cat Books. It’s about does the
Farting Cat Book brings us a Roulac? Does Tucker give away 5,000
Farting Cat Books this year, will there be one guy, and this person
giving away 5,000 Farting Cat Books, will there be one guy, and one
from here, one from there, one from there, one from here? They all add
up.
There’s a couple of other samples in your notebook of promotional
pieces. This is like the cheapest thing I ever did. This is a reduction of
it. I used this for a couple of years pretty effectively. This is just a
newspaper tearsheet, and so that became my primary brochure.
We didn’t attempt to kid anybody. I didn’t print the grocery coupons or
the Wall Street Journal thing on the back. I printed it both sides with my
stuff, but they’re like two cents a piece, and they’re big and unusual.
People pay attention to them and so forth. I put that sample in there.
This is more about what we’re talking about. Getting someplace a
second ago. This is an old issue of Travis McPhee’s Successful
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Practice Letter, which is Jerry Jones’ old original partner for anybody
who’s tracking lineage. This went to all dentists.
It went to dentists who subscribed, and it went to pretty much every
dentist who didn’t subscribe treating them as if they had subscribed. I
got named as the practice growth guru of the year in Successful
Practice newsletter.
How did I get that distinguished and important honor? I had Travis as a
client, and I said, “Hey, why don’t you make your practice guru of the
year?” I milked that a lot. I continue to use the reprint of that page
today.
About testimonials
We talked about testimonials. There’s all kinds of ways to present
testimonials. There’s the group them on a sheet like this. I wanted to
point this out to you for a reason. It’s another reason to do books.
This is a testimonial page from one of my professional brochures along
the way. I think it’s from the annual report thing. This is really in a
brochure about hiring Dan as a speaker or as a consultant, but there’s
two testimonials down here that are about one of my books.
Why do I want testimonials about book in the middle of a testimonial
page that is about getting me clients? One of those testimonials is from
Joan Rivers, and the other one is from at the time a hugely successful
infomercial, Perfect Smile. I didn’t have testimonials from either one of
them about me. I only had testimonials from the about the book.
They are more important than what the testimonial was about. The
Joan Rivers thing always caused, “You know Joan? Tell me about
Joan.” I don’t care what they want to hear about, as long as they want
to hear something because now we’re in dialogue. The Perfect Smile
thing because I got a lot of business out of the infomercial industry,
that was extremely useful.
The other thing to think about is those testimonials exist because I had
a book, and went to get cover blurbs for the book. The Perfect Smile
one is actually a secondary favor arranged by Greg Renker at GuthyRenker as a matter of fact, but without the book, I couldn’t have got
them. Once I got them for the book, I could keep using them all sorts of
places.
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I gave you my primary testimonial book that I used for a long time. I
gave you pages of that in there too. It’s actually published like this. It’s
just testimonials in book form. I called your attention to a few of them.
I got the Brenda Dillard one in there for no other reason than I really
liked it. I didn’t write any of these, by the way. It’s still my favorite
testimonials of all of the ones that I’ve had.
This is in there for two reasons, one because it’s a testimonial with a
story. Without Irish immigrant in front of $8.40 invested in a sales letter
produces $26,000 etc, it’s not nearly as interesting a story as when you
stick Irish immigrant in front of it. Furthermore, it allows me to show the
newsletter in my book of testimonials, of which there’s a whole bunch
of reasons to do that.
This one is in there purely because it’s Hewlett Packard, and I don’t
have a lot of big company stuff, so it was good to have a Hewlett
Packard one. In some cases, I reprinted the whole letters. This one is
in there again for the same reason as Hewlett Packard. It’s B2B. I have
less business-to-business than I have anything else, so that’s about as
business-to-business you can get.
This one is in there because it’s a cool attention getting picture, and I
like the picture. She sent me this picture of herself. It’s a babe in a
bikini on two elephants.
How many of you have ever been sent a testimonial of a picture of a
babe in a bikini standing on two elephants? That’s probably nobody but
me.
This is in there. Why is this in there? Oh, this is in there because this is
now another one of these personal ones. This is a booze problem
related one. So, it’s actually in there as disclosure and encouragement
to connect on that level.
This is here because it’s Australia, and having clients from distant
lands, you want to remember that, having clients from distant lands is
still exciting and interesting and impressive to people. You would think
you still had to go over there on the Queen Mary, and take three
months getting there the way people react.
You can still actually get a gatekeeper to put somebody on the phone
by adding the words, “Calling long distance.” Now, you would’ve think
that would’ve gone away, but that still works. You want to remember
that if you want to get somebody on the phone. It’s infinitely better to
say, “This is Dan Kennedy calling for Dr. Altadonna long distance,”
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than, “This is Dan Kennedy calling for Dr. Altadonna.” For some
reason, that still works. It creates some kind of sense of urgency to
have to go get him. Having a client from a distant place is still
interesting to people.
The Bridget Campbell one is in there for the same reason that the
Brenda Dillon one is in there. I’ve always liked it.
This is in there because it’s a weird occupation, and it’s an interesting
occupation. So, there’s a testimonial from a magician. This one is in
there not so much because I was prospecting from any work from nonprofits, because I never did, not because I wanted work from nonprofits, but it got me a football player, and then it allowed me to get
pictures in of the football player and the football player with a celebrity.
That’s the with strategy. I’m not with Ditka, but this guy’s a client of
mine, and he’s with Ditka, so that’s the same as being with Ditka.
Hartunian’s is in there because it’s a really, really, really good
testimonial letter.
You can not overuse these things. it’s impossible. You’ve got to get
them all the time, getting as many as you can, keep getting them
updated as your relationships with people continue over a period of
time, use them, use them, use them, use them everywhere.
What they say about you is infinitely more persuasive than what you
say about you.
ethics
The last thing before we break. Let’s have a quick discussion of ethics.
Here’s my advice to you about all of this. Number one, don’t take
clients you shouldn’t, so you ought to define for yourself what that
means.
The best advice I can give you is figure out what that means for you
and then do everything you possibly can to resist the temptation to
take one you know you shouldn’t. I don’t care how broke you are. If
you take one you shouldn’t, all that does for you is make you broker.
You may temporarily keep a car from being repossessed, but trust me,
it’s not worth it. The car is replaceable. Your time, peace of mind,
sanity of dealing with a client you shouldn’t have taken, you can never
get back.
I have one from 25 years ago, I still occasionally wake up in the middle
of the night thinking about her, and not in the good way. The money is
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long been spent. The problem the money solved has long since been
gone. Somehow it would’ve been solved without her. The memory
haunts me for life.
The best reason not to take a client is you know you won’t be able to
satisfy them. Big mistake to take them if you know you won’t be able to
satisfy them. It doesn’t make them bad, so the two examples I’ve got
here, they both for somebody would be and were great clients. I had
enormous respect for them.
Bill Phillips, when he was at EAS, I would love to have worked with Bill
Philips, but I never would have been able to satisfy Bill Phillips
because if Bill wakes up at two o’clock in the morning with an idea, he
wants everybody on a conference call at two-thirty all the copy written,
and there better be half a million pieces of full color drop it in the mail
by noon the next day.
That don’t make Bill a bad guy. That don’t even make him wrong, but it
makes him really wrong for me.
Ken Roberts people, they are not going to be happy unless they can
pick up the phone and talk to their copywriter. There is no way to make
them happy unless they can do that. It doesn’t matter. I can make them
$50 million, they wouldn’t be happy.
I not even for them and not even for all the money either one of them
might have paid me, am I going to picking up the phone and talking to
people at random.
It’s easier to go find somebody else to give me money. So I know I’m
not gonna satisfy him. To take him and have him unsatisfied, life’s too
short and reputation’s too precious. So figure out what for you is not a
good client and then don’t take him. Don’t over promise and under
deliver. The temptation is enormous to tell the client what they want to
hear about timelines, deadlines, results, in order to get the money,
especially when you need it. You will regret it.
Don’t prescribe based on ability to pay. An awful lot of consultants do
this. The temptation is understandable and in eight out of ten, seven
out of ten cases you’d probably get away with it, but eventually you’re
gonna be caught and it’s gonna not be pretty. I have a formula for
calculating a project. It’s a real formula and it doesn’t matter to me
whether it’s a Fortune 500 company or it’s a little guy just starting this
company, fee’s the same. Deal’s the same.
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If anybody ever compares notes they’re gonna find the only variable is
the anticipated aggravation surcharge and I disclose it. If I add it I say
to the person face to face, “There’s five thousand dollars out of his
contract because I think you’re gonna be a pain in the ass. If by some
chance you’re not a pain in the ass I may give it back to you when
we’re all done.”
If anybody ever compares notes it’s right there. Don’t cut deals. You
will be tempted to do it. I’m gonna let one person in my coaching
group for free because it’s so good to have them in there. I’m gonna
let him in at half price because nobody keeps a secret, ever.
Somebody will compare notes. They’ll cut deals. Plus you don’t just
lose the money, you lose the power, you lose the control. They either
pay or they don’t pay.
We talked about this earlier. Be wary of recommending others. Be
very careful, be very cautious, be very demanding. Somebody asked
about our criteria, I didn’t really want to have a big discussion about it.
One is, of course, that people guarantee what they sell to you. We
don’t let anybody sell to you without a guarantee. That’s really a small
criteria, but it’s still an important criteria.
Don’t steal from your clients. If you’re gonna use work product in other
ways, disclose it. Never sign a non-disclosure agreement, refuse
under all circumstances, but on the other hand if they have truly
proprietary information which a lot of people think they have but they
don’t but occasionally somebody actually does, it’s always a great
shock to me but occasionally somebody actually has something unique
where that they really are getting to the market with first. Don’t
disclose it.
In your group settings have clear rules and frequent reminder
discussions of what is fair play with SWD. What’s fair play about
copying, using and the best rule connected to all other rules is if in
doubt ask the other person. I have one client who paid me seventyfive thousand dollars to write his campaign, he’s letting another guy in
the coaching group knock it off.
I ask him. He’s letting him knock it off, paid me seventy-five thousand
dollars for it, that’s fine. They made an arrangement. He didn’t ask the
guy for any money. If he had asked him for money the guy would have
paid him, he just chose not to. That’s fine, but if the same guy had
taken it all and used it and simply taken out chiropractic and put in
martial arts and walked off with it without asking him, the two of them
are in the same coaching group, he’d be madder than a wet hen. You
try and get yourself and everybody else to play as fair as you can.
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Number seven is the best tip of all. The word “avoid” is the important
word. Try and avoid all misunderstanding. So number one, disclose
other relationships. Don’t let them think for a minute they got some
kind of exclusive, they don’t. Never work without detailed written
agreements, never, never, never, never, never, never, never, never,
never, never.
LeGrand’s a good example for me. I’ve known Ron for twenty-five
years, I like Ron. Ron’s as close to a friend as I can allow a client to
be. However, I wouldn’t do work for Ron without a written contract on
a bat. Not because of distrust, but because we’re both old and feeble.
His memory’s no good, mine’s not either. There gonna be a day
sometime when one of us ain’t gonna remember it exactly the same
way the other one remembered it. It has to happen.
Best way to avoid it, paper. Paper trail everything. I’m amazed at
people who don’t do it. I nag people to do it all the time. I nag myself
to do it all the time. See in a business relationship there is no casual
phone conversation. The very definition of a business relationship
precludes casual conversation. So there is no casual conversation,
there’s business conversation. That’s what a business relationship is.
In the hallway, on the phone, if it’s anything that has a tail to it, it ought
to have a paper trail to it. Tail meaning it controls something that’s
supposed to happen, that he’s supposed to do, that you’re supposed to
do, that you agreed to do, that he agreed to do, or it’s ever likely to
come up again. If it’s got a tail it ought to have paper trail.
That doesn’t mean it’s got to be a signed off on agreement, it just
means that somebody’s got to memo somebody and since you can’t
rely on them to memo you, you got to memo them. “Bill, just
confirming. We talked on Tuesday and you said you were gonna bear
the cost of getting XYZ transcribed and I was gonna take care of
getting photographs done.”
Not date, sign, return here if this is what we agreed to. That’s not
necessary, but there’s a written record and it’s in a file. So now if six
months from now somebody doesn’t remember it exactly the way the
other one remembered it, well, wait a minute I’ve got a memo. I
memoed you on such and such a day. If there’s a tail there ought to
be a paper trail. See, it’s poetic.
It should help you remember it. Number eight, don’t steal clients from
others. Bad idea, a very bad idea. There’s a very famous copywriter
who’s the best copywriter on the planet, but quite often the caveat is he
never gets any copy written and so I have a fairly regularly occurring
basis, unhappy client of this particular copywriter coming to me looking
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for a new home. This guy’s a friend of mine and he’s been very good
to me over the years. I don’t want his clients. I never want a situation
of him being irritated thinking I stole a client and so in ten years I have
taken one and I called him first. I said, “You know, the guy’s here, he’s
pissed at you. I don’t think you’re ever gonna get another dollar from
him. You don’t want to be stepping in front of his car. I’d like to work
with him. Do you want money?” I wouldn’t do it without a phone call.
Jeff Paul. Jeff Paul and I are friends.
Ben Altadona has migrated to me from Jeff and O’Keefe has migrated
to me from Jeff. In every instance I called Jeff first. This guy wants to
come over here. Ben called the very first time and said he wanted a
consulting day. I immediately called Jeff and I said, “Now here’s
what’s gonna happen. If I have consulting day with Ben, Ben’s gonna
want me to do some stuff for him. Some of that stuff I’m going to want
to do. Me doing some of that stuff may get in the way of you doing
some stuff with him. If you don’t want me to take him tell me now and I
won’t even do the day with him. Once I do the day with him you can’t
ever be upset about anything else that happens because you should
know I’m probably gonna yes to anything he wants me to do. Do you
want me to take the day or do you not want me to take the day?”
Then I paper trail it, “Just a reminder on such and such a day I called
you. We talked about Ben. You said have at him.” I don’t want a year
from now, two years from now, three years from now, I don’t want any
disgruntlement, you don’t want it either. Ninth thing, not on the
overheads and then we will take our two o’clock break.
Most of them didn’t even get it. The big ethical issue for consultants,
coaches, business opportunity marketers, etc. and the thing that gets
in people’s way more than anything else about making maximum
money in any of these fields is how they feel about the people who
they take money from who don’t get any results.
You got to get or you will become emotionally ill in this business. You
got to get that that is not your responsibility. You did not give birth to
them. They will not visit you in the old folk’s home. It is not your
responsibility to make them successful in any way, shape or form. It is
generally a bad idea to take that responsibility on either actually or
emotionally.
5
15
80
As a practical matter by the way, you can’t make them successful.
Even if you wanted to and even if you tried. Every population resorts
itself into five fifteen eighty. No matter what, you go sleep it off, on
their couch, get up every morning, drag them out of bed, get them up.
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Don’t make any difference. I did that when I was sixteen, seventeen,
eighteen and nineteen in the Amway business.
I’m telling you. Five fifteen eighty, don’t make any difference. You can
go over, you can sit with them, you can make the phone calls with
them, you can do the meeting for them, you can recruit the five fifteen
eighty. Don’t make any difference. Even if you wanted to go sleep on
the couch with them, drag them out of bed. Don’t make any difference.
As a practical matter you can’t make them successful anyway. Now
you got to decide sort of what is the ethical line in all of this? If you
decide the ethical line is, is that a majority of people have to achieve
some level of whatever you define as success in the use of your advice
or stuff. You will still be emotionally sick, because the majority won’t.
Five fifteen eighty.
The best you’re going to gets twenty, that’s the best your gonna do.
So if you define it as majority you will be emotionally ill. What is
unethical is if twenty percent of them follow your instructions and do
what it is that you tell them to do and do as you ask and none of them
are able to be successful. If the thing or your advice is so inherently
flawed that no one can do it, if the representation of what can be done
is so far from reality, then no one can do it.
Then that I would just as unethical. The legal standard follow this, by
the way, is not a topic of conversation for this seminar, but it’s very
different from what I just described to you, but fortunately it is rarely
enforced. So you got to decide whether your ethical standard is about
all of this. I strongly tell you it can’t be about a majority and it can’t be
about everybody. It is about a minority, but it shouldn’t be about zero.
The thing should actually work. Now there’s advertising license and
even the Federal Trade Commission recognizes that without
advertising license nobody could sell anything. So easy, quick weight
loss is easy, quick weight loss only if you exercise four hours a day on
the treadmill. There’s some room for advertising license and the
promise, but at some point you’ve stretched the privilege of advertising
license to outright fraud.
Only you can decide where that stretch starts to occur, but you
probably don’t want to do it. So the thing should work for the person
who really works it as you tell them to work it. Understand, going back
to yesterday’s conversation and there’s wiggle room in that though
because remember it’s about their value, not our value.
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Guy increases his business by five percent, that’s not enough to make
you happy, but if that’s enough to make him happy it works for him.
Question: Dan, what’s the best model to implement paid teleseminars into a
coaching program?
Dan:
I’m not sure I understand the question. Is the question to start with
paid teleseminars and switch them to coaching? Is that the question?
Question: That’s right.
Dan:
First of all, I’m not sure that that’s what you want to do at all. Let me
give you an analogy. First of all, as I said today, the truth of the matter
is there is no best model. There is a choice of models, one of which is
best for a particular person in a particular market in a particular set of
circumstances at a particular time and place.
I’ll give you an analogy answer. Several box sellers, people who sell a
kit or already started it, are having success with the kit being sold in
three monthly installment payments with free telecoaching during those
three months and then the telecoaching monthly charge is the same as
was the installment for the kit and so now the telecoaching continues
as paid after the kit is paid off in the first three months with the charge
uninterrupted.
They’re already used to seeing that charge on their credit and they’re
in telecoaching perpetually until they stop it. If you use that as an
analogy and you could make your teleseminars the same price as you
wanted your coaching program to say, you could essentially bring them
in on a series of say three teleseminars on three particular topics that
are priced at X.
Then really it seamlessly just moves into a telecoaching program after
that at the same price. Depending on where you’re pulling them from,
there’s really no good reason I can think of to actually put the
teleseminars in front of just selling them directly into the coaching
program.
If you were going to front end the teleseminars into the profession as
the front end offer, I only know of one doing it. That doesn’t mean it’s
not being done a lot, but if you were going to do it then you’ve really
got to sell the coaching program on the teleseminar. The price of one
to the other doesn’t really make any difference.
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If it’s a series of three teleseminars, the bonus teleseminar might
actually be the one where the coaching program is sold. You might
have an application process and everybody on the teleseminar series
is invited to apply for coaching. I don’t know that there’s any single
answer to your question.
Unless you’re going to front end it, you may be being more convoluted
than you need to be.
Question: Second question is how does a membership website work exactly?
Dan:
Beyond me bubba! Look, I had trouble getting a cup of coffee this
morning. I have no earthly idea. Not the guy to ask. By all means,
start with Bill on a break and go from there.
Question: When you’re entering a brand new field where you’re not well known
and your strategy up front is controversy to draw the attention. Where
do you draw a line so that you don’t shoot yourself in the foot. An
example would be, I came from the fitness world going into the golf
world and I’m creating a series of products of what your pro doesn’t
know about the golf swing. It’s obviously going to upset a golf pro, so
where do you not get in trouble and shoot yourself?
Dan:
Once you’ve crossed that line, once they’re mad and presumably
they’re not going to be cooperative with you anyway, I don’t know that
there’s another line. Once you’ve crossed the first one there’s not
much point in being subtle. How mad can they get? At some point
their heads explode or something I guess, I don’t know.
Once you’ve crossed the line, if you’re going to take the position that,
“I’m going to show you the stuff that your golf pro, who’s been taking all
that money from you all these years, refuses to show and doesn’t
actually know and couldn’t show you if he wanted to.” Once you cross
that line go as far as you want.
They’re going to be aggravated and it’s a fairly reliable positioning path
to go down. It precludes joint ventures with golf pros. That’s what it
does. The one thing you don’t want to do is pick that fight with people
who have a lot of media, because they’ve got more ink than you’ve got.
I don’t see the second line.
Question: How would you ever incorporate a celebrity golfer in something like
that or is it just a lost cause?
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No, it’s perfect for that. Again, I don’t really want to have a long
conversation about levels of usage, but there’s the celebrity that you
actually taught now who’s been paying golf pros for thirty years,
couldn’t get his swing right and you fixed his swing and he’s willing to
say so.
That’s like the furthest, highest, best, most utopian level of usage all
the way down to the celebrity who’s not going to say that, but is just
going to say, “What so and so knows about golf swings, no pro I’ve
ever worked with knows” or “It’s the most interesting stuff I’ve seen in
twenty years of playing golf.”
Then you’ve got choices. Obviously, you’ve got pro golfers and golfers
who just won the amateur tour and retired pro golfers from the senior
tour. You’ve got those choices. I have a client in the commercial
mortgage business, for example, who hired a fairly well known senior
tour pro to make two appearances a year at his client appreciation
events, give him a photo and endorsement he can use and all that stuff
and he’s paying the guy twenty grand.
That’s like the bargain of the century. You have other choices. You
have a baseball player who plays a lot of golf, a football player who
plays a lot of golf, a Hollywood celebrity who plays a lot of golf, a food
network chef who plays a lot of golf. You’re not limited to pro golfers
with that story.
Let’s take an actual example. Let’s take Robert Wagner, who loves
golf and plays in the Celebrity Pro Am once a year. Wagner’s going to
cost you a hundred grand and you’re going to get a picture and you’re
going to get at least some kind of statement. I don’t think he’d care
about offending golf pros, so the statement could be offensive to golf
pros, wouldn’t make any difference.
Get your picture taken with him. Get a little video clip of you showing
him something about his golf game. If you actually can improve his
golf game that would be big because Bob bets on golf, on his golf
game. If you actually could improve his golf game that would be big.
You take him out, you get your pictures, shoot a little video, shoot a
little audio. You’ve got to do it all in one day.
You pay him a hundred grand for the year you could probably get him
tomorrow. If you don’t want to spend a hundred, now you’ve got to
start shopping. There might be somebody who works for you who you
could get for ten, or for fifteen, or for twenty. You’re not going to get
Tiger Woods and you’re not going to get Phil Mickelson, but there’s a
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lot of choices who could work for that pitch and be interesting for that
pitch. Dr. Paul?
Question: A couple of things just from this weekend you talked about that just
kind of struck me. One was the five fifteen eighty-five deal that you
talked about.
Dan:
It’s actually five fifteen eighty, I think.
Question: I think whatever it was, my memory’s off this late in the day, lack of
sleep. In any event, one of the things I wanted to ask you and they’re
kind of two different questions.
Dan:
I want you to calculate how much you pay me, not how much you
charge me.
Question: I don’t care how much I pay because I make way more than you get.
In terms of reorganizing a group, what traits or qualities sort of stand
out with those that become the five percent [inaudible 9:10] that gets
stuff done. I’ve heard you talking about people saying, “Well, I really
don’t want to work.” I can tell it disgusts you because I know you
work a lot and you get a lot of joy out of your work.
What exactly is it that you’ve noticed over the years in the five
percent that you say, and we used to do it in chiropractic. You go to
chiropractic school you say, “We know that person or that person’s
going to make it.” You know the first quarter. What is it that you’ve
seen in your group with different individuals [inaudible 9:36].
Dan:
You’ve expanded it to a different question. See if you’re asking me if I
can give you a predictive criteria of winners versus losers, I can’t.
Nobody’s ever been able to do it and anybody who claims to be able to
do it is full of crap, because the exceptions are so profound they are
the rule.
If they weren’t, nobody from the ghetto would ever go to college to
become a doctor. Trying to create a predictive model is, in my opinion,
ludicrous. If you’re asking, given exposure to them, can you judge
some commonalities?
Question: More that.
Dan:
Bill and I were talking about it at lunch. First of all, this is the most self
serving of all commonalities I can tell you. The first commonality is
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they buy. They invest in education for themselves. My Peter
Fernandez story. Here’s how I met Pete, in case you didn’t know.
We’re exhibiting for General Cassette at the National Speakers
Association Convention.
So we’re in the exhibit hall and we’ve got a bunch of everybody’s
cassette programs up on the wall. I didn’t know Fernandez from
Adam. Pete walks up to the booth, he looks, he says, “You guys sell
them?” I say, “Yeah.” Carla’s in the booth. He hands Carla his Gold
American Express Card and he says, “I want one of everything.”
He didn’t ask, “How much is everything? How many are everything?”
He asked nothing. “I want one of everything. I’ll be back in about ten
minutes. Run the charge and ship it to me.” There’s a reason
Fernandez is successful. There’s literally a closed loop. Bill and I
were talking about it at lunch. We were actually joking about coming
over and smacking you! See, Tucker buys everything.
At most events, while the speaker is speaking, Tucker’s at the back of
the room filling out the order form. The DVD, CD thing of this meeting,
it’s the first time you’ve bought the CDs and you didn’t buy the DVDs,
so we were talking –
Question: I can see you on TV!
Dan:
I know. It’s that familiarity problem! But I mean Tucker buys
everything. There’s a closed looped between that and it’s horribly self
serving to say so, although you should say it to your people too
because it is also true.
The first indication, like in the old Success Trak seminars with
chiropractors and dentists. I used to tell Foster all the time, “I can tell
you by the time this seminar is over who’s got the worst car in the
parking lot and who’s got the best car in the parking lot.” The guy
that’s got the best car in the parking lot is the one that bought first.
The guy that’s got the worst car in the parking lot is the guy that isn’t
buying at all. Walk out and follow him.”
One sort of behavior that evidences itself very quick is how they are
about investing in themselves. Jim Rohn's line about, “Poor people
have big TVs, rich people have big libraries.”
You walk into
somebody’s house I can tell you a lot about that house by whether or
not there’s any books.
We have a friend right now who is frequently talking about becoming
entrepreneurial and I’ve said to Carla on a number of occasions, “He’s
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full of shit, because walk around the house. Where’s the stuff he’s
studying? There’s no books. There’s no tapes. There’s no
magazines. There’s no nothing. Who’s kidding who?”
What do they read, what do they listen to?
Question: How do they go from knowing it to making it happen in the physical
world?
Dan:
How do you get them to do that?
Question: In other words, what identity, what behaviors?
Dan:
The behavior of doing things is the behavior of doing things. There is
not any precursor step to that. What they talk about. If their
conversation disintegrates to snow tires and price of gasoline, that tells
you one thing. If their conversation breaks at a coaching meeting. At
a coaching meeting I can tell you a lot about people.
Again, you could have ten billionaires in a coaching group and there’s
a slow and a fast. In my coaching groups that’s why I barred the
laptops is because so on a break now there’s four of them; one of them
is on a laptop checking email; another one is on a laptop showing
somebody funny pictures; and another one is looking at a porn site.
I can tell you which Platinum Member or which porn site, which was
that question? If I didn’t know, it just so happens the incomes match
up perfectly. The guy making the least amount of money is the guy
who is looking at a porn site. The guy who is making the next least
amount of money is the one who is looking up funny pictures, showing
everybody funny pictures.
The guy checking his email is making the most money of the three, but
the least money of everybody else in the room.
As far as
implementation, somebody either does or they don’t. I don’t know that
there’s a precursor commonality. They either do or they don’t. If at
some point they switch from don’t to do, in some cases it’s a
cataclysmic event. In some cases it’s a sudden awakening.
It’s a change in who they hang out with, which we often facilitate.
That’s one of things that coaching and mastermind groups and those
sorts of things accomplish is you lift somebody out of the associative
they’ve been in and put them in a new associative group where
everybody else is a doer. All of a sudden from one meeting to the
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next, from one call to the next, they’re the only one who hasn’t done
anything.
That was acceptable behavior in the group they were in before, now
it’s clearly unacceptable behavior and in many cases that jars them
into action. For the most part, by the time we get them either some
ingrained level of “do it, don’t do it.” The eighty twenty rule, the five
fifteen eighty, hasn’t changed in at least fifty years that I know of.
All of us and all of the books and the tapes and the CDs and all of this
stuff. Twenty years ago you couldn’t find a self help book. Now you
go to Barnes and Noble and it’s there. You don’t have to go to a
bookstore, it’s on the internet. Oprah’s doing it for God’s sakes. All
you have to do is watch Oprah, you don’t even have to get off the
couch, it comes to you. It’s everywhere.
All this technology that’s made it easier. There’s faxes and emails and
all this. The percentages haven’t changed one damn wit. Follow any
group, a hundred people, for forty years to age sixty-five.
One
percent’s rich, four percent’s financially secure, fifteen percent have to
keep working to survive, eighty percent are either dead or broke.
It hasn’t changed. This is the first time I saw the Social Security
Administration staff for nineteen sixty-three. The last ones I saw were
from nineteen ninety-three, no change. Think of everything that’s
changed in between, they haven’t change a damn thing. When I say
the population keeps reordering itself all the time. In the five fifteen
eighty it does.
So even in a coaching group. If you have twenty in a coaching group it
reorders itself. Five percent of them are kicking ass and taking names.
Fifteen percent are doing pretty well. Eighty percent are pretty much
wondering how in the hell the twenty percent are doing it. I don’t think
we change that.
I think we facilitate it to be faster, easier, better, bigger. We really help
winners win earlier, faster, bigger. We rarely change a dedicated loser
into a winner. It may not require that however to delight them, but we
don’t really do it. Once I had my Amway experience, the first big “ahha” that came out of that for me is I didn’t want to be in a business
where my compensation was determined by someone else’s
performance.
Where the compensation was based on turning chickens into eagles. I
got the blinding flash of the obvious. I’m a seventeen year old kid and
this guy’s a forty-two year old mature adult business owner. He can’t
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manage to show up at the opportunity meeting at his own house on
time in order to let the guests in.
This tells me this is no way to try and make your money. Our business
is all based on consumption, not performance. Performance happens,
that’s great. Otherwise, we’re based on consumption. You buy it, you
take it home, you come to the seminar. You go home, do something,
don’t do something; doesn’t make any difference. I’ve got the same
amount of money.
Every once in a while I think, “Gee, it would be great to get some more
money from the ones that do something.” In order to do that I’d have
to change the whole formula and I don’t like that. I don’t think we make
winners out of anybody. I think we help winners win bigger, faster,
easier. That’s what I think we do. Craig?
Question: Dan, I have a situation where I’ve had some of my guys nicking bits
and pieces of my coffee and pretty much my mindset’s been if they’re
a client and they’ve paid me a lot of money I’m sort of tolerant of it. If
they’re in my coaching, I’m tolerant. I want to know your mindset on
that or your tolerance threshold.
Because now I’m seeing guys who are newsletter subscribers nicking
the whole newsletter, my newsletter, for their newsletter. I’m not
tolerant of that at all.
Dan:
It’s a very difficult part of this business. First of all it’s hard to define
actually what’s fair use and what isn’t fair use. It’s sort of like hard core
pornography, you know it when you see it. Explaining it in advance to
somebody is a little tough. Clearly, talking the whole newsletter and
sticking their head where head is and changing the name.
Question: Even the mistakes, they kept the mistakes. You can’t even read it.
Dan:
Maybe they kept the plugs in. At least that would be helpful.
Question: I had a guy, he kept my link.
Dan:
First of all, I think some of it is always ignorance. So first of all you’ve
got to try to explain to people what’s fair and what isn’t in some way,
shape or form and then remind them of it from time to time. Then
you’ve got to enforce individually. I’ve always had to do a lot of it,
probably always will have to do a lot of it.
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Some percentage of it is legitimate ignorance. They just, “I don’t know”
and you sit down and you say, so protecting the no BS identity. That’s
a full-time job for twenty-two people if we wanted to be a Disney level
enforced. So somebody uses the no BS, no holds barred, kick butt,
something in the subhead in the middle of a sales letter, for the most
part I ignore it.
They start to use it on the main headline and the title of the book and
the title of the product, then I don’t ignore it. And for the most part all it
takes is a letter, a fax, a phone call, take somebody aside at a
coaching meeting and say, “Hey, Bill. Really. This is a problem for me
and here’s why it is. It’s hard to tell you where the line is, but you’re
way over wherever the hell it is.”
You’re right, from time to time I ignore it. I’m at least as sensitive about
them stealing other people’s stuff as I am about them stealing mine.
Again, I’d rather they go ask and in most cases everybody would say,
“Oh yeah, go ahead.” You’ve put your finger on a real tough part of
this business and I think you’ll never be happy, because I’m never
happy about it.
I mostly try, and as you said, just ignore it and mush on. I don’t think
you can beat it other than situationally first being nice and then in the
cases where you really have a stubborn person who now knows you
don’t want him to do X and knows they shouldn’t be doing X and they
perpetuate in doing X. If they’re in your group you’ve got to throw them
out. If they’re a subscriber you’ve got to cut him off. You may have to
formally cease and desist and go through all of that stuff. To my
knowledge, nobody has a good answer for the question that you’ve just
asked. We all deal with it literally on a day to day, person to person,
piece to piece sort of episodic, incidental basis.
Question: You said you’re never going to have a good answer for it. I guess
the answer is to ignore it because if you’re always going to be
unhappy, better to ignore and be happy.
Dan:
You can’t totally ignore it, because the really egregious stuff has to be
stopped. By the way, it ‘s why I always advise people to don’t get
involved in trademarking and patenting and all of that any more than
you must.
Your few key pieces of intellectual property, yes.
Otherwise, you become the Bill McGowan line about MCI, you become
a law firm with an antenna on the roof.
So companies like Disney, they have to and they’ve got as many
lawyers as they’ve got elves and rabbits and they’ve got to go after
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everybody because otherwise they lose the right to protect. That’s not
a fun way to do business or go through life.
We have an incident, a guy in a foreign country for example, last year,
who’s a good guy and he’s been with us for a long time and he should
know better. You shake your head and you say, “Surely this guy knew
better.” Maybe he did, maybe he’s operating under the easier to
apologize than it is to get permission theory, who knows. He took the
whole Renegade Millionaire sales letter and the Renegade Millionaire
identity and just used it. Now he’s in a foreign country, but so are we,
there. These days there is no foreign country. We called him on it and
it was like, “Hi. You’re upset?” “Yeah we’re upset. You can’t do that.”
and he fixed it.
We watch it on a day to day basis and sometimes stuff comes across
and you kind of just shrug and “Okay, what the hell difference does it
make” right? Or he’s advertising in guns and ammo magazines, some
kind of target practice kit and he’s used an entire block and egregious
amount of my copy, but I kind of go “I don’t give a shit”, but he’s in
dentistry, now I care.
Man, it’s a daily deal. By the way, the more you do the more visible
you are, the more successful you are, the more of this you’re going to
face.
Dan:
The only other answer is of course to outrace him. There’s some parts
of what we do that sort of gets locked in place and stays there. A lot of
what we do is pretty fluent. Then that part of the business is Ray
Kroc’s answer, we can invent faster than they can copy. By the time
they’re doing what you were doing you were doing something else. It
raises sort of a fun point that I’ll mention very quickly. In some niches
copycats copy only what they can see and they’re too lazy to go look at
everything so they only look at the most visible.
So often over the years I’ve had five or six or seven instances with
clients where we have, for a short period of time, peed away money
running really bad ads knowing that the moron knockoff artist who was
stealing all our stuff would copy all those ads and lose his hind end.
We could afford, he couldn’t and then he’d go away. We’ve done it on
more than one occasion. And sometimes you do stuff like that as
discouragement to entry. On a local basis Mike Storm’s in a karate
business years ago, he’s in Metarie, Louisiana and he’s already got
fourteen competitors all within driving distance. He goes, “The guys
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are coming over and I know they’re open and two schools right down
the road from me. You got any bright ideas.”
I said, “Yeah.” I said, “Why don’t you rent five of them billboards all the
way down the street, between your school and theirs for three months,
put your face up on them and Mike Storm’s Karate.” He says, “Are we
going to get any students from that?”
I said, “You don’t have to get a damn student.” I said, “ But it’s really
discouraging to the guy driving down the road thinking about opening
up that little school over there when all he sees is your face all the way
down the road! Maybe he’ll think twice about this.” Guy went away.
Never opened the school.
How to get paid
Let’s talk about how to get paid. I am on page one hundred and nine.
Some people get paid per hour. I’m pretty convinced that’s the normal
coaching model that is being taught by the normal coaching institutions
who are kicking life coaches and business coaches out at a rapid rate.
Kicking out coaches, not mentioning to them you can’t make any
money in this business unless you have a way to get somebody to
coach. That’s problem number one. Then they’re teaching them all
the hourly model.
Hourly
For the most part, as I said at the very beginning of the seminar, no
matter what you charge you’ll ultimately be unhappy because when
you trade hours for dollars you only have so many hours to trade and
you can only get so much an hour when it doesn’t matter what the
value of the advice is that you’re dispensing.
The person is still watching a clock. They can see forty-five minutes
have gone by and now it’s over and at some point in time value, no
value, it’s just too big of a check to write for the hour.
Term
Project
Some people do term programs and usually they’re to an outcome.
Very common in the “get rich in real estate” industry for example where
there’s a coaching program that will last twelve weeks and it’s
designed to get the person to and through their first transaction. That’s
sort of the promise. Perry Marshall, the Google Ad Words guy, has a
term coaching program. It’s X number of things over X number of
weeks or months, I forget. It’s a set fee and it’s done.
Some people figure out a way to do coaching per project. Mostly that’s
consulting, it’s not coaching. Some people have coaching groups that
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are about a project. There’s a variation of it, which I’ll talk to you about
under How To Get More Money.
Retainer
AutoRenewal
Term
TilForbid
1-on-1
Some people are doing per project coaching. Some people are doing
the retainer stuff where they’re paying by the month or they’re paying
by the year essentially for access. A lot of people screw that up by
giving too much access, unrestricted access, uncontrolled access.
Like “Coaching program includes you can email me and get questions
answered.” Eighty percent won’t email you much, but the twenty
percent who do could kill you and you always wind up out of every
group with a few pen pals who want to write to you eight, ten, twelve,
twenty times a day.
This unrestricted access thing is generally not a good idea. If you do
terms, the best thing is the automatically renewing term. It’s a twelve
month or it’s a twenty-four month, or it’s a thirty-six month program and
at the end of that period of time it automatically renews and we take a
pre-agreed upon money again.
The stuff you’re most commonly seeing in our world is the til forbid
pricing formula where it’s so much a month typically. A few people are
so much a week. Steven Allover is a twice a month charge, so it’s so
much twice a month. I’m charged on the first and the fifteenth and it is
continuity, till for bid, you got to scream, you got to get out.
A lot of the traditional coaching is one on one delivery. Meaning, it
may be structured by a program, but you’re paying for entirely or
partially the right to talk to me on the phone personally, to send me
emails, to send me faxes and/or even to show up at my door and sit
and talk to me.
In most of the coaching stuff I’ve done I have always had some one on
one phone activity. Some people do it once and decide never to do it
again because they find it too painful and I understand. It is a big
value builder for people. It really adds to the value of the program and
it is a way to actually really help people, the ones who use it properly.
I’ve almost always had it. Every coaching program has some version
of “You’ve got a time slot and you call and we talk.” Just so you know
about that, just as people are in coaching programs for different
reasons, their behavior in coaching is very different from one person to
another.
So in one on one coaching you wind up with a lot of individual by
individual, by individual variance that doesn’t surface as much in a
group environment. Some people call totally unprepared for the call,
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they haven’t given it a thought before they jumped on the phone and
they want to talk about the weather and who do you think is going to
win the football game this Sunday.
They use up some of the time, half of the time, all the time doing that.
Some people call, the exact opposite. They’re thoroughly prepared.
They’ve sent in the list ahead of time, “Here’s the five things I want to
talk about. Here’s the order in which I want to talk about them, so if we
don’t get to number five, that’s okay, we’ll read at the three. Here’s the
three or four facts you need to know about each one of those.”
I’m picking up the phone and they’re on number two. That’s fine.
Some people are calling for therapy. It’s really not a business call at
all. It’s their kids, their wife, their employees, their mother-in-law, the
relative they’re supporting. Now that people know I’ve got a dog, I’ve
got one guy that’s asking me dog questions.
I’m going, “I don’t know. I let mine do whatever it wants. That’s my
solution.” Some people are, in my case, very marketing oriented.
Some people the edges are very fuzzied. Some people are calling for
accountability. Some people don’t want accountability. Some people
are calling for recognition. Some people don’t care about recognition.
Some people miss their calls a little. Some people miss their calls a
lot. Different people have different philosophies about that by the way.
Some coaching programs, the coach calls the person at a prescribed
time. I’ve never done that, but there are coaching programs that do
that.
Group
Delivery
Some coaches, if somebody misses a call, they chase them. Some
coaches, if somebody misses a call, they’ll give them a make up call.
Personally I don’t do any of that. If you aren’t there, tough.
Then there’s, from multiple individuals, meaning group delivery,
certainly it’s the most efficient.
The other thing I should tell you about one on one calls is if you do do
a fair amount of them my advice to you is find some way to be
entertained while you’re doing it. After a while staying with it can
sometimes be a problem.
First of all, I told you be careful about the order you put people in so if
you’ve got a few problem children you don’t want four problem children
one right after the other, because then you’re going to be irritable.
When the weather’s good I like to sit outside part of the time on the
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deck. I’ll put the TV on with no sound and watch a couple horse races
while I’m talking. I’ll sort mail.
The group delivery thing is of course the most time efficient. It has
leverage in it, which one on one doesn’t because theoretically you can
put as many on a call as you want or if you want them to have
interaction there’s a number of programs that put them in groups.
There’s buddies, there’s six, eight, ten, twelve, this hour; six, eight, ten,
twelve the next hour and it’s open lines.
Surrogates
It really is like six, eight, ten, twelve people sitting around a table and
having a mastermind meeting except they’re all on the phone with you.
There’s delivery where you’re doing all the delivery. You’re doing the
one on one calls. You’re doing the group calls. There’s delivery where
you’re using other people to do some of it, most of it, all of it.
How do you get paid more? Number one, charge more. Secondly,
select people who will give you more. The past three weeks I’ve had
this conversation now twice with people who are customers who only
pay X amount. I say, “Then go get better customers.” It’s that simple.
Somewhere there’s somebody.
For the same amount of work you’re doing and the same amount of
expertise you’ve got and the same information you’re giving, there’s
ten people somewhere who’ll give you three times as much money
because it’s worth three times as much to them. Go find the people
that’s worth the most to.
The
Single
Biggest
Secret
I Know
About
Price Is
Here…
Charge more, select the clientele better. The third and the fourth,
supply and demand and pent up demand. That helps push up price.
The way you get paid more is having fewer chairs than there are
people who want them. Having an unlimited number of chairs and
everybody knows it or having a lot of chairs and everybody knows it,
that suppresses price.
If there’s only five chairs up here and there’s a hundred of you, these
chairs become enormously valuable only because there’s a hundred of
you and five of these chairs. So now the price for the chair goes up
substantially. That’s the principle of scalping tickets. The tickets are
only worth five thousand dollars after ninety-two thousand of the
ninety-two thousand four hundred seats have been sold at the regular
prices. Now if you want to go to the Super Bowl there’s only these
handful of seats left. Well, now price is no object because somewhere
there’s some nitwit who’ll pay fifty thousand dollars to go to the Super
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Bowl. The last ticket is the most valuable ticket of all because there’s
only one seat and there’s more people left to want it.
This is about manipulating the ratio of chairs to people, visibly or
through copy or through your application and enrollment process, but
they must see, if not physically in a room; they must see in their head
that there are a lot less chairs than there are people who want them.
They’ve got to see it, they’ve got to believe it, they’ve got to understand
it.
There’s language about that and you’ve seen some of it; “Okay. We’re
sending this invitation out to four thousand one hundred and seventytwo people. In order to be fair, we’re dropping it all at the same time at
eight o’ one a.m. at the same post office. We send in all the Fed Exes
on the same day. We’ve staggered the mail, so we dropped
everything from the furthest zip codes today. Tomorrow we’re
dropping the next stuff. The next day we’re dropping the next stuff,
and by the way there’s only fourteen spaces.”
Obviously with four thousand one hundred and eighty-two people
getting the invitations and there’s only fourteen spaces, they’re going
to be gone; on and on and on and on. Do you think I’m beating it up
too much? No. You beat it up a lot because I want them to get the
picture.
If they’re not going to physically, actually see it in the room I want him
to get the picture of five chairs, four thousand one hundred and eightytwo people. “I’m in the back row, I’d better run. I may have to knock
somebody down.” That’s the picture I want them to see.
The pipeline thing is sort of what we talked about here. Actually, the
ideal position to be in is not only to have a pipeline [inaudible 42:33],
but to actually be reducing the number of chairs, not even keeping
them static because that creates panic. This year you’ll find in one of
the samples that I gave you or that we get to or whatever, because I
shrunk my groups again this year so we allowed Platinums to bid
above the fee and nine bid above the fee.
The highest of which was seventy-one thousand dollars for a thirty
some odd thousand dollar membership. I wound up not taking the
extra money, but I could have, I could have, because they saw it. “This
many people, they’re all going to want those chairs, it’s only so many
chairs, I want a chair worse than that guy.”
I also got faxes of why I should take Charlie instead of Bill and “Here’s
the seventeen bad things Bill said about you in the restroom that you
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didn’t know about. Here’s why Bill’s a schmuck. Here’s this and here’s
that and you should take me instead.” I got some of that stuff. Which
actually was entertaining more than it was anything else.
That’s when you know you got it right is when they’re fighting over the
chairs. The pent up demand is about pipelining. So it’s about your
ascension ladder narrowing enough that you always have more trying
to move up than you’ve got spaces for them to move up into. There’s
either a waiting list or when you periodically announce open
enrollment, if you will, days for this program.
There’s a virtual stampede to get it and that’s what you want to work
on. Bundled goods and services, levels and the ascension ladder.
Here’s the most important thing you want to know about all that.
There’s always twenty percent who will buy the premium version of
whatever is being offered, if it makes any sense at all, there’s twenty
percent who will buy the premium version of what is being offered
purely because it’s the premium version.
Why are you
volunteering
to take less
money than
20% will
gladly pay?
That’s what they do. They will ascend to the next thing that is shown
to them on the ladder because that’s what they do. Therefore, not
offering a premium version of whatever it is that you are offering, not
offering another step on the ladder means you are letting twenty
percent of the people give you less money than they would love to give
you if you offered them a reason to give it to you that made any sense.
Sometimes that may be okay. Your whole base may not be big
enough to justify putting another step on the ladder yet. You may not
want to do the work of two levels, or three levels, or four levels. You
may not want to bundle more stuff in, whatever. You’ve got to know
that you are leaving the money from twenty percent of whatever
population you are working with behind who would cheerfully and
gladly give you more if they could.
Now as soon as you re-shuffled them once and now there’s a bunch of
people at this level and a bunch of people. As soon as you’ve done it
there’s twenty percent again who would buy the premium-premium
version of your doohickey if you offered them a premium-premiumpremium version of the doohickey.
Platinum I think two years ago was sixteen thousand a year or
eighteen thousand a year, I forget which, limited to eighteen members
and so how do I get some more money out of these guys? Well, I’m
doing phone calls for my VIP groups anyway. I can fit a few more
phone calls into the two days I’m doing the VIP group, so I did
Platinum Plus.
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It gave me another four thousand bucks a year and you can have a
phone call on the same, because phone calls weren’t included, but
you can have phone calls on the same day the gold VIP guys are
having phone calls. I don’t know, I think I had five guys who moved to
Platinum Plus.
They’re always ready to do it. They’re always ready to buy the
premium version. It’s just a question of whether or not you want to
offer it to them, but know that if you do not you’re leaving money
behind. Remember about ladders, we talked about it very early.
Everybody’s conditioned to climb the ladder, you just got to show it to
them and they’ll climb the ladder.
Payment arrangements. I’ve been all over the place on this over the
years. Still variant depending on the program. I’ve done the “I don’t
want to screw around with payments at all and I don’t even want to
screw around with credit cards. Write me a check or they’ll be in a
group.” I’ve done that. I’ve done payments.
I’ve done three payments. I’ve done six pay. I’ve done fifty percent
now, fifty percent after the first of the year when we actually start. I
think you’ve got to figure that based on who you are to selling to. The
real thing to be careful about is not making the payment arrangement
so easy that again you wind up having people as clients who you
shouldn’t have.
What you never want is the person who is going down for the third time
and looking to you for the life raft. Every once in a while you might
actually be able to save one, but that isn’t good business. That’s good
if you’re running a charity or you’re an evangelist or something you
should be doing that, but not in business.
The odds aren’t good. Most of the time they’re going to be dragging
you into the undertow with them. If they’re so weak that they can’t pay
for whatever it is you’re offering them with some reasonable
accomodation. Let’s say a twenty five thousand dollar thing being sold
to a dentist. He might not want to lay twenty-five grand on his AMEX
all at one time and we can kind of understand that. He might not want
to write a check for twenty-five grand all at one. What would be too
little? A thousand dollars a month for twenty-four months. If he can’t
pay it off faster than that, you probably don’t want him.
In many cases what we’re doing with people, they need to be able to
invest some money to implement. If they have to sell their paraplegic
mother-in-law’s wheelchair and mortgage the furniture and stuff in
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order just to get in, how are they going to do anything? You might
occasionally make an exception and I have done it over the years. If
somebody is really determined and is in that situation and comes
begging and convinces you that they are going to apply themselves. I
never let them in for nothing. I would never discount, but I might play
with their payment arrangements. As a published or offer to everybody
kind of thing, you’ve got to find a point where not so demanding that
nobody will give it to you or nobody could give it to you out of your
clientele and market, but not so easy to pay for that anybody can,
including people you shouldn’t have in there in the first place.
Exclusivity. Well, the most powerful lever you will ever have in selling
coaching or consulting, either one, is again fewer chairs. The fewest
number of chairs you can ever put in front of a group of people is one,
because you can’t sell no chairs. The fewest number of chairs you can
put in front of people is one. That’s why exclusivity works is because
there’s only one chair. There’s all kinds of exclusivity. There’s one per
business. I’m only going to let one chiropractor in. I’m only going to let
one dentist in. I’m only going to let one podiatrist in. I’m only going to
let retail store owner in. There’s those kinds of exclusivity.
There’s geographic exclusivity. I’m only going to take one person from
each zip code, town, however you define an area. That does answer
an objection, by the way, all the time to “Well, what happens if
everybody in my town is using your stuff?” That objection’s gone now
because there’s only one person in your town using your stuff.
There’s another way to answer that objection too, which is how I used
to answer. The exclusivity base goes away. The exclusivity can be by
industry; it could be by size of business; it could be by geography. Any
which way you cut it, as soon as you create it and you make that part
of what you’re selling you gain an enormous amount of leverage
because now you’re holding up one stool and there’s only one stool.
If you don’t get the guy across the street’s going to get it and you’re
going to see him sitting in the stool and now you’re really going to be
unhappy. The other reason it works is an extension of that. As soon
as you start to sell exclusive things there’s a “buy it because they want
it” and there’s a “buy it because they don’t want that person to have it”
factor.
That has often been a driving force as is the “I want it.” My example
about all that, which I will do as briefly as I can, is the Larry King story.
It will stick it in your mind forever, so it’s worth the re-telling. Larry tells
this story about how when he was on the radio in Miami, he was a
radio host in Miami, he gets a call and it’s, as he says, an obvious bent
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nose. It’s somebody of Italian decent who explains that they’re hosting
a tribute dinner for the local Monsignor and it would be ever so nice if
Larry would MC it as a favor. These are people you don’t decline
favors to. Larry goes to host the tribute.
He arrives and they explain to him in the back, “There’s a few things
you ought to know. One, don’t ask anybody to raise the lights, we’re
keeping the lights dim because there’s some competitors in the room
who don’t generally like each other. There’s some gentlemen from the
FBI. So we’re just going to keep the lights dim. Secondly, you don’t
want to make any jokes about the mafia, not that there is such a thing.”
Larry says he does the whole thing and it all was great and he’s happy
to be getting out of there and the guy corners him in the back and
says, “You were great, wonderful. You did us a favor and now we owe
you a favor.” Larry said, “Oh no, no.” He says, “No, no, no. We owe
you a favor and you’ve got to understand we don’t like owing people
favors. So what do you want?”
Larry says, “No, I don’t want anything.” This goes back and forth and
Larry says he hears a question that you will probably never hear at any
time in your life. The guy looks at him and says, “Well, got anybody
you want whacked?” Larry says no matter how moral a person you
are, how spiritual a person you are, at the moment in time that you are
asked that question by someone who clearly has the ability in order to
deliver on the question, you begin making a list.
That’s the premise of an exclusive, because as soon as you put in front
of people the premise that your peers, your competitors, your industry,
people in your community, here’s a list of twenty-two of them who
qualify and I’m only going to take one. They look at that list and there’s
somebody on there they can’t stand and the thought of them having
the stool is as motivating as is their desire for the stool if not more so.
That’s why exclusives work. The bad news about exclusives is you
can only sell one stool, so you’ve got to be careful about it. If you say,
“I’m only going to take one lawyer per area.” The bad news is there’s a
lot more lawyers in San Diego than there are in Pukatea, Idaho.
As soon as you take one there’s going to be twenty more you’re going
to be turning down and you’re smacking your head, “Oh, I could have
had all that money.” Then it takes you two years to find somebody in
Pukatea, Idaho, that’s the bad news.
Let’s say I did speakers and I said, “I’m only going to take one speaker
from each category I’m going to work with.” One motivational person,
one leadership person, one salesperson, one marketing person. The
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good news is I’d have enormous leverage. The bad news is as soon
as I got one of something, if it was a motivational person, the next day
there will be forty more wanting to buy and I’ve got to say no to all of
them.
There’s a double-edge sword to this. Some people figure out how to
split the hairs. I have a client, Dennis Tubbergen, got into financial
services. He’s now up to six different area exclusive coaching
programs. So he’s splitting the hairs by what kind of financial services
they’re delivering, by who they’re delivering them to. He’s parsing it
left, right, front and center.
He’s built a system to sell this type of coaching plus area exclusive.
You think about it. It’s one of the ways to get paid more money for
coaching. Understand what it does. It immediately makes the chair
infinitely more valuable without requiring any modifications to the chair.
The value is from air alone.
Where the chair might have sold for ten thousand dollars without
exclusivity, it easily sells for thirty thousand or forty thousand or fifty
thousand with exclusivity and we didn’t make any modifications to the
chair. The other kind of exclusivity I wanted to talk about, the example
I wanted to give you about project coaching.
My client, Craig Procter, who works with real agents, has had, for a
number of years, a coaching program with a lot of people in it; sort of a
middle swath program. I think it’s eight hundred and forty-seven a
month and he keeps hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of agents
in it at any one given time.
A few years ago he created a higher end program, his platinum group.
It was originally supposed to have ten or twelve people in it and now
he’s got fifty or sixty. They are only one per area, so he is doing area
exclusive with them. Then they are all getting a project per year, so
two years ago, and then they get me doing the project with Craig that
they then get to use.
Two years ago was the building of a shock and awe box, a big box for
the real estate agent to deliver to someone who thought they might
want to listen and sell their home. The platinum group gets to watch
Craig and I figure out and do it. They get to watch Craig test it and
prove it and then they get the right to use it in their area.
The project is going on during the year. It’s sort of a combination of
look over your shoulder and then finished work product and an
exclusive right to use. I don’t know what we’re going to do this year.
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Last year it was a recruiting an inside agent system to fix that problem
for them.
Think about what’s combined there that inflates the value dramatically.
One is area exclusivity, the other is a look over your shoulder
experience and third is a work product. Fourth is now a finished thing
that you get to use looping back only in your area. As well as the three
coaching meetings and the calls and all of that.
That adds enormous amounts of value. In reality, it actually came
about in reverse. In Craig’s case it came about because he really
needed to conquer the listing problem in his own real estate business
and wanted the shock and awe box for himself. When it was going to
cost him a hundred and fifty thousand dollars plus points in order to
have me build the shock and awe box, he didn’t want to write the
check. He figured out how to get everybody else to pay for it and get
what he wanted. It actually turns out that it turned into a pretty good
business and some multimillion dollar coaching business every year.
Plus every year he gets to pick something that he wants for his own
business to get built with everybody else paying for it.
It’s a very interesting example of stitching the pieces together in way
that creates a lot of value.
You Tell
Them What
They Need.
They Don’t
Tell You.
How to get paid more as a consultant which should be 110, the first
three things go together. First of all, never accept predetermined
assignments. You don’t want to get hired to do X. You want to
prescribe. You don’t want the patient coming to you and saying, “I
want a hip replacement.” No, you want to be the one to do a bunch of
diagnostics and say, “You need a hip replacement and a head
replacement and an elbow replacement, etc.”
If you wish to do a lot of work, then it is easy for consultants to expand
assignments. You sort of add on, add on, add on because the client’s
vision is of what needs to be done and what he wants done and what
is going to be done is usually pretty small.
For example, Miracle Ear originally came to us, thinking they need
some new ads. They wound up with a two million dollar project
encompassing all sorts of stuff, not they needed. It is a far cry from
what they had in their head of what they might need or want.
My very first consulting company was called Brookside Labs. Brooks
Side Labs is a company, they are a consulting company. They sell
agricultural productivity improvement to farmers. By that what I mean
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they are really a soil analysis laboratory who calls their sales reps
consultants.
They come out and charge the guy a program fee and they take dirt
from all over his place and they put it into a vial and they bring it back
to the lab and they test all the dirt. They figure out that he needs more
iron over here and he needs more manganese over here. They make
color coded map of what kind of nutrition needs to go here there in
order to make the dirt produce better. Then they go back and deliver
the map.
I did a speech for them and then we had the post speech, debriefing,
which is how I used to sell consulting. Then their vision was, alright I
just did a speech, it was obvious their sales people they don’t know
how to sell. The next thing they need is sales training. They kind of get
that, in fact that was their question. What do we do now to get these
guys trained? Even if we get them trained, say they are also having
trouble getting appointments, we need a marketing system in order to
get them appointments. Then they have this renewal problem they’re
only renewing only thirty percent of the clients. They need a system to
lock the guy in for three years or four years or five years.
By the time I was done, I was there for twenty eight months, working
on one thing after the other after the other, including arbitration
between board members and all sorts of other things. The assignment
kept expanding and expanding. It should because you could see a
thing that they can’t, obviously that is one of the reasons that you’re
there.
Always is in the strategy business, not in just a do it business. My
standpoint as a copy writer, the big reason why most freelance
copywriters don’t make any money is because they take copywriting
assignments. The client comes and says I need an eight page sales
letter in an envelope and a coupon. What are you going to charge me
to do that?
Client comes to me and says I need an eight page sales letter in an
envelope and a coupon, I say you want to bet. That isn’t want you
need at all. Now I am in the strategy business and I assure you what
they need is not an eight page sales letter in an envelope and a
coupon. They need like a forty eight step campaign, a new lead
generation system, a TV infomercial, and a shock and awe box.
Secondly, you make more money as a consultant when you just don’t
deliver advice when you deliver work product, some stuff, some kind of
thing. In Jack’s theft control business the consulting side of the
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business was really theft control audits and inventory control audits,
but now we added to that train trainer materials, constant video and
DVD’s that people sat in front of and watched in between the seminars.
We added work product training materials.
Find a way for your services to be free. The easiest way to sell
consulting is if you can convince everybody that it doesn’t cost them
anything in order to give you money and if you sell any kind of
business improvement that is of course relatively easy to do. It is all
about making the money as a discount argument which is usually tied
to their transaction size.
1. ATS
2. AGM
3. TCV
There are certain numbers you need to get a handle on in order to
make a sell to somebody. You need to know their average transaction
size; you need to know their average gross margin. If possible you
need some kind of customer value number, first year, one year, three
year, and lifetime. With those three numbers you can make almost
anything you are selling them free. You can convince them and higher
the transaction value the easier it is. For Charlie to sell a twenty five
thousand dollar program to a dentist, but if Charlie’s average case
value is forty their average case value is ten, he doesn’t have to
increase him to forty but they say forty. All he has got to be able to do
is double their average case value from ten to twenty and in two and a
half cases they got all their money back.
How many patients treat, how many cases do you have in a month?
Four, well you are going to have all your money back in thirty days.
Why wouldn’t you do this? How many more new whatever do I have to
get you as a result of being involved in this program? If it is a thirty
thousand dollar a year program, then the transaction value is a
thousand bucks, thirty. That is not even three a month that is two point
eight new customers a month that you wouldn’t have otherwise.
All I got to do is convince him that by being in this program he is going
to get at least two point eight new customers he wouldn’t have got
otherwise. Generally speaking, it is not a hard case to make people
get it you can make an argument for it, you can support it with your
testimonials.
The three numbers you need to know to make a consulting sale or a
coaching sale, for that matter, are you got to know what their average
transaction size is; you got to know what their gross margin is,
although you will try to use the gross transaction size as your
measurement.
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Sometimes selling one on one consulting somebody is smart enough
to want to talk about margin. You have to know what a gross margin is
and you got to know some customer value number, one year, first
year, three year, and lifetime. The lifetime is the best because it will be
the biggest.
That is a number they won’t know but you can get them to guess at it.
You can talk them through it. The drycleaner doesn’t have any idea,
for example. He knows how much an average dry cleaning order is
and he knows how many times a year his average customers come in.
Now you can talk him through it.
How many customers do you think you keep for ten years? How many
customers do you keep for three years? Now you can calculate out
what the customer value is and now you can use that number to assist
him in making an intelligent decision in participating in your program.
Those are the three numbers that you need.
When you go to escape billable hours, you sell projects, not time. You
want other compensation and fees. You want to know, it is the next
page, 111 I think. You want fees and other compensation that is
important. I said, and then corrected myself; I didn’t mean other
compensation instead of fees. I meant fees plus other compensation.
We will talk about that in a second.
You want work product hours. You always get more money if they are
getting stuff, then if they are just talking to you. You may be able to get
materials in quantity hours. This is especially true of corporate clients.
They got to buy one of your things for all the sales people or one of
your things for their offices. You may be able to get Mark Twain Huck
Finn money. That means some part of what you deliver you may be
able to get somebody else to do the work for free.
For the glory, for the intern experience, in order to get the testimonial,
in order to be able to use the work product somewhere else, there is
subcontractor, outsourcing and staff. They are the five, six and seven
ways of how you get paid and don’t do the work.
Recycling, really important, the longer you are in a gig. The only
places that there is leverage in consulting and copywriting are dealing
with the same kind of client again and again and again and so you are
recycling the stuff you have already done. You build up a bank of
knowledge, content, work product that can be pulled off the shelf. Sold
for the same price as if you were creating from scratch but really it is
eighty percent already done?
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How To Turn
Fee-Paid
Work Into
Product
Retained ownership, multiple use this is pretty important, it is really
important for copywriters. It is very important for anybody who is
creating work product is that if you create this whole system for hiring
better people for your client in the electrical manufacturing industry,
you want to retain the rights to sell that system to everybody, every
place except electrical manufacturing. Now you have built a product.
If you are dealing with a geographically restricted client, let’s say you
create some kind of a system for a group of restaurants in Texas. You
want to retain the rights to sell that same system to every state but
Texas. You now get to bicycle the stuff across the country and resell it
and resell it and resell it.
Money from referred venders almost always when you do consulting
work for somebody you are going to need to connect them with goods
and services you don’t provide. You should get paid. Your choice if
you disclose it or not but you should get paid. Resale of goods and
services meaning not only do they hire you as a consultant but then
they need a whole library of your stuff. You sell product at the same
time.
Let us talk about other compensation structures. There is performance
dollars and there are use fees. Performance dollars, one structure is,
we have talked about it a couple of times quickly and casually is
percentage above base.
Percentage above base is a very easy thing to sell and a very difficult
thing to retain clients with over a long period of time. It has a positive
and a negative. Percentage above base works like, the very simple
example is, you made a hundred grand this year as a mortgage broker.
There is a rate of inflation of ten percent and your growth each year is
ten percent, so your base issue is a hundred and twenty thousand and
your base next year will be a hundred and thirty six thousand add
twenty percent to this year’s base. You figure out the base for each
one of the years and then you take a percentage everything of what
occurs above the base.
Now if I can get him when he is at a hundred and I can take him to
three hundred and his base was one twenty, I got two eighty of which I
am getting thirty percent of. In ideal I am getting it above some kind of
fee not in lieu of a fee. There can be very big money with percentage
above base.
The reversal is where you are saving people money. I am going to
come in and find fifty two ways to reduce costs in your factory and I am
going to get some agreed upon percentage of the reduction, we had a
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percentage above base thing in Jack Henry’s business in theft control
with a few large supermarket chains. Where a two year contract, we
establish your based up rate and every half point we reduce it by we
get x amount of dollars. These are big dollars.
The negative about percentage above base is it usually creates an
adversarial relationship that ultimately breeds resentment. In most
cases the work you do for them is front and loaded. The results get
better and better over time. They are paying you more and more for
less and less.
Although they should be happy at some point as they are getting out
the check book to write the check for this month for fifty two thousand
dollars and they haven’t even talked to you in ninety days. They are
grumpy. The first you need to know about percentage above base is,
the longer the contract the less likely you are not to have problems and
not get paid.
The one way to attempt to deal with that is with buyouts. That there is
away for them at certain trigger points to cut you a lump sum check
and terminate the relationship and continue to use everything they got
during the point.
You can sell against percentage above base for pre-pay, which is what
we did in practice management. We signed the doctor to the three
year, thirty percent, and percentage above base contract and now we
convince him that he is going to end up paying us four hundred and
twelve thousand dollars over the next three years, but you can prepay
your way out for thirty.
We were doing this, the interest rates, it was Jimmy Carter, I think, and
the interest rates were sky high on a bank loan. If you’re discounting
four hundred and twelve thousand dollars to thirty grand it doesn’t
matter what the interest rate. It is irrelevant.
We wanted prepays, we didn’t want percentage above base clients.
We hated percentage above base clients, because we knew what was
going to happen. We used it as a lever to get them into prepay, it was
a staged sale. The first part of the sale was, agree to the percentage
above base contract, they all easily agree to that. It’s nothing, they
don’t have it and they think at the moment if this guy gets me two
hundred grand or three hundred grand over the three years, I am
happy to give him a third of it, I am delighted. They won’t be, but at the
moment they think who wouldn’t love this deal.
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They all signed that that was like a hundred percent close. Then the
stage sale was setting them down, setting their goals and making their
chart. Then having the realization appear before them of what that
thirty percent was going to look like. You can make all this go away for
thirty six thousand dollars and we have financing for the thirty six
thousand dollars. Really you can make it go away for $817.63 a month
and we converted them. That was a percentage above base.
Royalties are another performance dollar thing, again very common.
Not very common but it is the thing that top copywriters do. Where you
pay a fee plus you pay a percentage of gross for as long as you use
the copy in order to sell things.
Sort of the same thing occurs when percentage above is some cases.
When I wind up with a client who is still paying me for something that I
wrote seven years ago, eight years ago, nine years ago, and every
month they write me a check and I haven’t had to touch it since.
Some don’t mind, they have the right attitude about it, others are
grumpy about it. In some cases tough, in some contracts I put
buyouts, so they can pay a lump sum fee and make me go away. The
per something is then some other way to get paid on performance.
Number of people showing at seminar rooms, reduction and
absenteeism.
Anything that is measurable you can tie performance compensation to
as long as you can measure it. The most important thing I will tell you
about performance money is it should be fee plus performance money
or at worst fee has advance against performance money, like a
Treat the
salesmen’s draw. Not performance money only.
performance money as gravy. Cover your time with the fees because
there is too many ways for you not to get the performance money.
Copy writer, I have clients that I wrote stuff for four years ago, they
never printed it, they never mailed it. They spent a lot of money on it,
but if I was relying on the performance dollars not good. The
performance dollars to me is like gravy, I get them I am thrilled. That
goes in a wealth account, but I ate off the fees.
Use fees, they are licensing fees for work product, for training
materials. You get to use my stuff and you pay a license fee in order
to use it. There is renewable, you get to use this stuff and you pay to
keep using it. There is per something, anything that could be
measured by use can be charged for by use.
Number of sales people that come into this room and watch these
DVD’s, how can we control that while the only way to keep them
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honest and count the cookies? Count the cookies thing is important. I
got that from my theft control expert. Here’s the count the cookies
example, it takes five minutes to tell it.
Mary is at home with little Johnnie. Little Johnnie and Mary are the
only one’s in the house, there is nobody else in the house. There are
no humans, no pets, and no animals. Mary bakes twelve cookies,
Mary is going to walk out to the mailbox and come back. If she does
that without the conversation that I am about to have, Johnnie is going
to eat three, four, five, six, eight, nine, twelve of the cookies while she
is gone.
She has to say before she goes, Johnnie I am going out to the mailbox
and now we are going to count the cookies there are twelve of them.
When I come back the first thing I am going to do when I walk in the
door, before I read the mail, before I do anything else. We are going to
count the cookies again. If there aren’t twelve cookies here because
you and I are the only ones here and I’m not going to be here, if there
are not twelve cookies here, your ass is getting whip.
That is if she doesn’t have the conversation the cookies are gone.
Anytime you are getting paid based on use, you have to have a way to
count the cookies. The Australian friend bought his Europe master
license so I gave him the count the cookies mechanism. Which is now,
if we are going to get paid by the number of people who come into this
room watch these DVD’s when this person shows the DVD’s.
Everybody who watches these DVD’s has to get a packet of material
and the packets have to be fulfilled from your office not the guys
showing the DVD’s. The DVD has to say everybody should have their
packet of material and now turn to page eight in the package of
material, maybe they got to go to teleseminars and they got to have a
number to log into the teleseminars. The DVD has to tell them they get
these three teleseminars, now if he shows the DVD to the people
without the packet everybody is saying where is my packet. He can’t
get the packets only they can get the packets. You got a way to count
the cookies, if you don’t have a way to count the cookies and you are
getting paid per usage of anything you will not get paid on the cookies.
A lot of copywriters get paid on number of pieces mailed. If you don’t
see the postal receipt you haven’t got a prayer. Even so there is six
hundred ways to cheat with that that is why I haven’t done it. The
royalties they can cheat on too, but there is a lot of ways you can
police that, the postage thing not so good.
Equity, you will have, the more visible you are, the more successful,
the more this will happen to you. You will have people who will want to
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offer you pieces of their business, rather than any other kind of
compensation in order to help them have you as a consultant is in your
coaching programs.
The worst kinds of these are the start ups. I have a great idea, I have
no money. Those are the two worst things you can ever hear from
anybody. Then “I have a great idea” is bad enough by itself. The “I
have no money” is bad enough by itself. The two together are really
ugly. They will want to offer you the moon. Over the years I have
passed up two hundred. I would be happier if I passed up two hundred
and two.
I suppose somebody hits a homeroom this way. While you are
chasing that rabbit you are leaving a lot of money behind. The second
kind is they come to you; they already got a going business, they
already got some numbers. They have some kind of big expansion
plan or growth plan or whatever and now they want to offer you equity.
That’s arguably worth thinking about, but the biggest thing you should
know about that, the short course on that is equity on privately held
company in which you are a minority owner is worthless, unless the
company is sold. There is a couple of things if you insist on doing it
that you ought to think about.
One is a trigger point at which the company must be sold if somebody
offers x amount of dollars. At that point if they want to turn it down,
they have to give you, your share of x amount of dollars. If it is ten
million and somebody actual shows up and offers ten million and
originally they would grab that without thinking twice. Now eight years
later they are happy, they are drawing big salaries they got a plane,
they got the Mercedes. They don’t want the ten million, the contract
says they have to take the ten million or they got to give you, your two
million that is your twenty percent of the deal.
The second thing you want to think about is controls on; they don’t get
money out unless you get money out. Otherwise, salaries can keep
growing, the payment to their mistresses can keep growing, the cars
can keep growing and you still have the same money. That’s not
good.
Equity in privately held businesses in which you are a minority partner
without a lot of contractual crap that controls how they get money, how
you get money, when you get money. Not a very useful perk.
Quite a few consulting contracts offer the opportunity for various and
sundry perks. A client years ago who did a lot of consulting for
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Bacardi, Bacardi sponsors the annual Penthouse photo shoot in
Antigua, which is a nude photo shoot with five hundred Penthouse
eligible women for three days. He got to go and hang out. He would
have worked for free, pay them, it didn’t make any difference. It‘s a
nice perk.
Nido, years ago was doing a lot of consulting for a furniture company
and they furnished his whole house at cost. Those sorts of things are
available, there is no reason not take them. You should actually look
for them a matter a fact.
Fee presentation mistakes. Talking about it too soon, several years
ago, you have actually seen this suit. I go into the Bernini store, into
the Forum Shops in Vegas. Not intending to buy anything and look at
this suit. The sales guy starts selling me the suit and I start asking how
much the suit is and I don’t get an answer.
I get talked to and I ask again, and I don’t get an answer. If you were
going to get the suit when would you need to get it picked up tailored. I
am leaving having dinner and then I am leaving, no problem. Then
pretty soon is at some point calling the manager at home to see if he
can x y or z, I don’t remember what.
I think I asked the price of this suit twenty seven times and never got
an answer. I bought the suit, still didn’t know what the damn price was.
I got it on; I got it tailored out there. I got it measure, I got the bag, I
still don’t know what the damn price is. I don’t know the price until he
is ringing the register.
There was a good reason why he didn’t tell me the price when I asked
twenty seven times. It’s as close to unconscionable as you can think
of for a suit. There is a lesson in it. Twenty seven is excessive, but my
mental rule is, when I am selling consulting or I am selling copy writing,
so there is a fee to be calculated, I like to be asked three times before I
answer.
I think you could go to fee too soon. I think they need to have deep
emotional commitment to buying before you get to fee. A lot of people
get there too soon. Almost a biggest mistake is to switching to being a
sales man again.
When people ask about fee, and they present fee, they switch from
consultant, advisor, I will accept you if you beg take away selling mode
to frantically justifying fee. Here is how much it is. They also they start
to down sell before there is a need to down sell. We could leave this
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out and this then would bring the price down to this. They switch into
being a salesman, not a way to quote a fee.
The way to quote a fee is to quote a fee and then shut up. That is the
way to quote a fee. More often then not, if everything has been done
right up until then, you might hear gulps, you might hear someone
biting the inside of their cheek, you might see a tear appear in the
corner of their eye, you might see some physical shaking. Eventually
you will hear let’s do it. Since the majority of the time you will hear
that, you don’t want to go through all those other gyrations and get in
the way. You only want to go through those gyrations for the small
number of people who say you know. Then you decide what you want
to do about that. You don’t want to switch to the selling mode.
The last thing is you don’t want to be afraid of it. If you properly
desensitize them to the level of where your fees are, everything you
have done leading up until then has sort of braced them, prepared
them, and reduced sticker shock.
Let’s take my copywriting fees, let’s assume I met with someone for
free, for a meeting and then we talked about what needed to be done.
I then quoted him my fee. They would be dead. I mean they would be
right there on the floor clutching their heart.
By properly preparing them all the way along, from what they were told
by others to reputation, to what I have told them, to what they have
read, on and on. By the time I quote the fee, they at least don’t keel
over. In a few cases they are surprised that it wasn’t worse. In many
cases it’s just a little bit more than they have really worked themselves
up to expect before we got there.
It is the same as, if you walk into Charlie’s dental office, you may not
exactly be prepared to hear seventy thousand and eighty thousand
and ninety thousand dollars. You are a lot closer to it then before you
walked into the office. There is the grand piano and the fountain and
the internet café and the women in gold lamé gowns, Italian marble.
You get it. Holy Christ this guy is going to expensive. Seriously, you
walk into the office lets say he has a plain Jane look; it has nothing to
do with the quality of the dentistry he performs. Let’s say he had a
plain Jane office, you know black and white tile from the 1950’s, one
potted plant over here and some chairs and some old magazines and
the gal behind the counter, Miss Battleaxe Bertha and she is 68 years
old with one gold tooth and a pirate ring in her ear. Now Charlie says
twenty seven thousand dollars, he is not going to get twenty seven
thousand dollars. That is way far away from where they were going to
be. None of that has anything to do with the quality of dentistry you will
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get. It has a lot to do with the money that they are going to be
prepared to part with. You don’t need to fear it at all if you have
handled things properly leading up to it.
The next best thing to do, to get higher fees, is try to deal with smart
people. This is a real great example from Thick Face Black Heart, if
you have a large diamond and you take it to the village market place
you will have a hard time selling it. If you take it to someone who really
knows diamonds, you don’t have to try to sell it, he will make you an
offer. Her punch line is if you are a true gem does not waste your
energy trying to undersell yourself to the common village peddlers.
You will only annoy them and waste your time. Trying to sell dumb
poor cheapskate people expensive stuff, valuable stuff is a giant waste
of time. My first rule has always been, never deal with underlings, deal
with only the person that can write the check.
I am very blunt about asking, I don’t deal with them after the fact either.
You don’t want to get downgraded in a consulting relationship to
dealing with underlings. You got to deal with the top guy. Sell top
down not bottom up. Especially if you are going in corporate, don’t be
dealing with the human resource director, the safety director, the any
director. You deal with the CEO.
You have to figure out a way to make your argument top down, so he
goes and tells them, we need to do something with this guy. If a
committee is involved, seriously consider refusing to participate.
Committees don’t write checks. Committees figure out how to not write
checks.
I have always refused to participate, as soon as you can detect the
decision make is unreasonably cheap, move on. If they turn on
unreasonably cheap in a relationship chastise them for it. I call clients
on it all the time. I just embarrass them. Shame them.
Bill and I bullied a client into hiring somebody to do something for them
and between the two of us we had to bully him into doing it. I am going
this is a lot of money, can we get somebody cheaper to do this. I
mean I am going you have got to be kidding me. What are you doing
turning your underwear inside out and wearing it both directions to
save money on laundry powder. The guy knuckles under.
Takeaway selling, there is a page of phrases in there that are
extremely useful. You will find it; it is stuck in there somewhere. You
need to ingrain language, as I told you senses were hard for me to do.
It’s not in there sorry, not in there? Well too bad, it was from
someplace else and I didn’t put it into the notebook.
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Here is the point you need to build up a bank of Money Getting
Language and Client Control Language that becomes an unconscious
part of what you do. You use it over and over again. To the point to it
is a joke, it works as a joke just as well as not a joke.
I will frequently and routinely say, in dealing with a client, or during a
coaching meeting, after we have arrived at something, that is a
revolutionary idea, or make them a lot of money. That is why I get the
big bucks. It is almost to a point the coaching group can all say in
unison, that is why Dan gets the big bucks. In a sense it is a joke, but
it is in a sense not a joke.
I do it unconsciously, automatically, it has been programmed in, these
phrases are in my unconscious side, I do them automatically, I don’t
have to work at them anymore. You need to do the same thing. We
are at a bit of a crossroad, it is five to five. I have not shown you
sample documents they are all in your notebooks. You can prowl
through them on your own.
Quick look at documents
Some of them I won’t say anything about, you can pore through them
at your leisure. Some of them I will make quick comments as I can
about the things I would like to call to your attention about these things.
This is the mouse, squirrel, rabbit letter. This goes back to the first
time I sold teleseminars, which I then sold individually priced prior to
doing telecoaching.
This is a lift letter from the mouse to the sales letter about the
teleseminars. This is from 2000-2001, I think. The teleseminar sales
letter immediately follows it. I guess what I would call to your attention
about this letter is, is a bigger lesson. That is that you really have two
basic choices about commanding peoples attention especially those to
whom you sell things to regularly or who you have little chapters or you
have coaching groups or whatever. You either you have to have a first
time ever or a last time ever. Anything less is not particularly exciting.
Your challenge is to figure out how everything can be a history in the
making event, which is a language we used to use in old days. How
everything is new, improved, it has never been available before. This
is the first time we have offered this, this is the first time we did it this
way, this is the first time we offered this pricing, and this is the first time
we offered this addition.
It’s got to be the only and last time this is available this way or at this
price or to this number of people. If you pay close attention to
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everything that we do, almost everything is either a first or a last. On
the next page of this letter it goes back to 2000 and has done as
recently as last year’s Super Conference.
The relevant paragraph is at the bottom. The teleseminar topics were
chosen based on input from hundreds of Inner Circle Members. What
that language is about is obligation. It’s about, you told us what you
wanted, and we built it, now you are kind of? pucked? If you don’t buy
it. We built it for you, this is what you wanted. That language is about
obligation and you will see a version of it occur again and again and
again.
There is a piece a few pages over. Here it is 121 through 128, I am
not sure if that is correct or not. I have voted myself off the island
letter. This was survivor was just kicking in; the voted off the island
was a very current and topical reference. You will see big news, all
through here. It has got to be first last; it has got to be something new.
There is a supply and demand limitation right in the subhead. There is
a qualification language about who this is for, this new personal
coaching program. Exclusively for individuals committing to multiplying
their incomes achieving a high six or seven figure, etc. etc.
There is the stampede kind of language, thousands are getting the
same invitation and it’s an application sell. It requires them to fill about
an application in order to be considered. The application of course
literally included an order form. What is the next thing I want to show
you?
If You Have
An Application,
It Has TWO
Jobs
You will find on page 133 I gave you several versions of these. Here’s
a coaching group application. What you should know about these
sorts of devices is that their main jobs are to do the following:
involvement, and demonstrating adequacy. By involvement I mean,
you can actually get someone to fill out a four page, eight page, ten
page, twelve page, or in this case a forty-six page application.
Their emotional commitment to buy is literally growing by the number
of minutes they are spending filling out the damn application. By the
time they have invested all that time and energy and effort to fill out the
application. Not buy is like a waste. The application also has to be
structured to make them very aware of how inadequate they are at all
sorts of things, therefore needing to be a part of the program.
On the second page of the application you will find two great questions
in the middle. This of course, I do marketing. How many marketing
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strategies or systems do you have in place that consistently generates
new business for you? Most people’s answer to that, by the way, is
zip.
How many marketing strategies or systems do you have in place that
consistently stimulate repeat business locking, continuing or renewable
income and/or stimulate referrals? Guess what most people’s number
is that they write there. Zero. They just got hit in the head with the
realization that they should have had those things and they don’t have
them.
The next page there is a question. Describe your three major sources
of stress, frustration, or happiness that interfere with your productivity
and rob you of peace of mind. That’s, let’s make them make
themselves unhappy.
There is some inadequacy copy on the next page. Rank yourself in
direct marketing experience. Bright, very knowledgeable but not very
actively implementing.
Some are knowledgeable; some are
knowledgeable or relative novice.
Then there is the, why do you think you are a good candidate for this
program essay. You should also note that some of these are essay
questions and some of them are simpler fill in the blank, multiple
choice questions.
Page 137 is a Platinum renewal form from ‘05. The most salient line
there is I am not renewing, offer my position to the waiting list. The line
offers my position to the waiting line is a very important line, it is again
reminding, reinforcing the picture that there are more people trying to
get these chairs then there are chairs.
There is an interesting thing that happens with race horses. We will
have a horse and we will have let people know that we would like to
sell it maybe it is in a claiming race. Somebody will come to the barn
and offer us three thousand dollars for this three thousand dollar horse.
We were delighted to sell it for three thousand dollars until somebody
offered us three thousand dollars for it. If that guy thinks it is worth
three thousand, what are we going to replace it with? Another three
thousand dollar horse.
Really if he thinks it is worth three thousand, maybe it is worth four
thousand. If you do sell it for three thousand, there is always a lot of
regret. We should have kept it, we should have sold it for five
thousand, and maybe he would have paid four thousand. We were
happy to get rid of it until somebody else actually wanted it.
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The very statement of go ahead release my seat to the waiting list has
the affect of, geez I was thinking of quitting until I realized everybody
else wanted in. Now maybe I don’t want to go.
What else is worth showing? Page 141, this was a questionnaire
application for my wealth group. You rank satisfaction with number of
each item from one to ten. It is an inadequacy deal. It is making them
come to grips on how unsatisfied they are. The emotional commitment
of taking the time to fill all this out.
Page 145 with that questionnaire again you find a version, what are
your top three continuing or nagging frustrations, fears, anxieties,
doubts or problems with your business. Three biggest barriers to
easier attraction of wealth in your business. They are defining their
own problem.
Here is a really good one, on 146. If a qualified outside expert was
thoroughly evaluating in the following areas. What grade would he give
you, A B C D or F? Then there is always things they have to grade
them on. I actually got this idea from Jim Rohn. Jim Rohn does the
shtick about if you came in and followed somebody around all week, at
the end of the week would you be saying no wonder he is so
successful look at all he does or no wonder he is not doing so well look
how little he does. This is if an outside expert came into your
business, how would he rank what you were doing.
Page 149 is a supply/demand thing. This is a letter about taking away
chairs. There’s the list of more people than chairs. There’s the, you
have been picked from possibly thirty-five plus there is nearly twenty
new candidates, I made the number bigger against the number of
chairs. That is called a supply and demand letter. It continues on the
next page with language like as you can see there are thirty three
names listed above, I have decided under pressure to expand this
group from sixteen to twenty. Then there is some interesting fee
language also in that letter.
Page 151 is the refusal letter to the people who didn’t make the cut.
Attempting to steer them somewhere else. I give you some various in
sundry forms and applications.
Page 153 there you will find some legal beagle stuff on the bottom of
form, some will probably going to use the work product language, the I
don’t have any liability language. You will find some of that there.
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Here is for 07, page 165A. I went back and added some after I
numbered the pages. 165A is the 07 letter, what is most significant
about this letter is that it went out on June 8, 2006. Remember I said
most people wait too late to start dealing with renewals, if they are
dealing with renewals. This is June of 06 dealing with 07. You will find
this whole letter is an explanation of how 07 group is working. You’ll
find all sorts of interesting things in there.
Page 165D, you will find another takeaway about doing work. This
paragraph right here gives me wiggle room. That really I am taking
work from the people who are part of the group. I might still have
cafeteria consulting and copywriting clients. The fees are going up and
you got to kind of be in a group in order to get in. There is takeaway
language there.
There is some last ever language on page 165E, top paragraph. This
means in all probability for most of you this group 07/08 will be the last
opportunities to work with me in this environment. Again it has to be a
first ever or a last ever.
Page 165F, you will find the medium bid language. For level one the
stated fee is minimum bid, you can bid above the fee. From one
seventy four on, Bill was kind enough to put a bunch of the current
Glacier Kennedy documents in here, in case some of those you
haven’t seen.
One of the things that’s interesting and I don’t have a slide for it. Page
193 is from the coaching program that he sold to his BGS members.
What’s interesting about this, you’ll find in a lot of boot camp letters
too, is that one of the elephants in the room that a lot of information
marketers are afraid of is the acknowledging the fact that there’s a
whole lot of people who bought their stuff and aren’t doing anything
with it. It is still sitting with shrink wrap somewhere. They are mystified,
confused, they don’t have time to do anything. They really haven’t
implemented. When you go to customers and try to get them to come
to a boot camp or to come to a teleseminar, you do anything where
they have to, in one way shape or form to face you.
How To Sell To
People Who
Haven’t Done
Anything With
What They
Already
Bought
One of the reasons they don’t buy is because they feel guilty about not
having done anything about not having implemented. They don’t want
to come show their face. So they want to hide. One part of this is
making it ok that they haven’t done anything. The second thing,
honestly acknowledging the fact they haven’t done anything. The third
is then to make the whole program to fixing that. In boot camp letters
you will start to see language of one of the best reasons to come is
because you haven’t done anything. This is a place to come and a
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light bulb goes on, this whole pitch is about that. This entire program is
about implementation by those who have not implemented.
Page 200 this is one of Craig Proctors coaching pages, what’s
instructive about this, in building value, is item number one, item
number two and item number five, it is the same thing. There is only
one thing there. It has been described in three different ways, three
different values with three different numbers. By separating one two
five versus one two three it even further confuses the issue. It’s
stretching the number of things into greater value.
On the next page, page 204 of Craig’s, you will find here a thing that
we don’t do enough of, it is something you should be aware of, is
diagramming your process. Showing the things you are going to do
with them to them in pictorial form, little charts form, little diagram form,
not in just copy form. It helps some people understand, grasp stuff
they wouldn’t understand otherwise.
I gave you Tom Orentz’s current form. On 208 there is a great
inadequacy at the bottom for my current age and the total portfolio, I
will need to amass, I am currently write on or ahead of track to retire to
the life that I dreamed of chosen. How many people do you think are
checking that puppy off? In need of a little better guidance in our
annual profits, not on track yet, help. The vast variety are checking the
third one of course and setting them up.
On page 209 another version of the go down, mark off, how you doing,
and all these areas. I am not doing really well; I am giving myself ones
and twos instead of fives. You will find Tom’s entire coaching
application in there.
There is a great inadequacy section on page 211. Check mark as
many as apply. Every week on at least three different patients I
perform on every week I typically do, mostly in my career I place more
than twenty I am not yet comfortable placing, I am confident placing.
They are reinforcing their own inadequacy.
On page 213, it has a really good question there. What is the number
one thing most likely to awake you in the middle of the night in a cold
sweat? He is closing his coaching enrollments one on one. He is
literally taking all the application information, he is preparing for the call
in order to feed it back to them, and tell them exactly how the coaching
program is going to deliver them, what they have themselves identified
that they need and want most. There is emotional commitment from
filling out the application and there is information that he is actually
using.
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I also put in Jay Abraham question in; therefore you are starting on
214. There are interesting questions on it but quite frankly the most
instructive thing about it is how simplistic and primitive it is compare to
all the other ones I have showed you. How far ahead of most that we
are.
I also put in a real oldie but a goodie. You will find a whole big section
that starts with the page that looks like this. This thing is a monster to
fill out and you will find it printed backwards, forwards and upside down
because the one spouse fills it out from the front to the back and the
other spouse fills it out from the back to the front. It’s a whole thick
page in your notebook; you can spend your time with it at your leisure.
They had to fill this out before they were allowed to purchase and there
are really interesting questions in there. The emotional commitment,
by the time two people have taken the time to fill out all that entire thing
out they bought, otherwise they wasted hours and hours and hours
getting prepared to buy.
The other stuff I gave you a whole pile of this is the precursor of weekly
faxes. I gave you a whole pile of Monday morning memos from the
Success Trak business from 1998 with chiropractors and dentists.
These went into the mail every Monday morning, the mail with a
stamp.
There is a lot of different things done throughout here that I am afraid
that I am not going to take. This one for example is nagging; Have you
done the following things that we have been telling you to do, yes or
no? There were studying, there is a whole bunch of stuff in them that I
am not going to take the time to call your attention to. There is a stack
of those.
There is a year’s supply of the weekly faxes that we sent to Gold Plus
and above. If you carefully study both the Monday morning memos
and the weekly faxes there is a couple of things that you will notice. I
haven’t changed much of what I am doing from 1988 to now in those
weekly memos.
The component parts are as follows. They are continually challenging
them on are they doing what they are supposed to be doing. Have
they used the stuff we gave them? There is only four months left in the
year where are you? Continually nagging and challenging them and
calling them to task on their behavior.
There are pep talks. There is literally one step away from the sales
manager calling everybody together in the morning and giving them a
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fifteen, twenty minute and sending them out to kill the troops. There
are some of those.
There is recognition of members who are doing right things and getting
good results. There are plugs from very subtle to huge and overt.
There is some humor you don’t have to be funny to keep people
around but it is helpful. There is topical material, references that
connect to what is going on in the news. That is sort of the short list of
what governs what goes into the weeklies.
You should very shortly have the section of consulting documents that
follow the coaching documents. It is probably another pink sheet in
your notebook to help you find it. It is another pink sheet and you will
be into the consulting documents. Here we have no page numbers,
lots of luck.
Here is a letter that looks like this. This is a letter to a client making a
big deal out of squeezing them in for a day that they wanted. I am
whining for an entire paragraph about how difficult it is going to be
even to squeeze them in and accommodate them and they are ruining
my holiday vacation. Then there is a little conflict paragraph and
ultimately I offer them a few dates.
Here is, I honestly don’t know how much I am jumping from page to
page. Here is a page that looks like this. What is instructive about this
is the second paragraph is all about how I can’t take them, and
shouldn’t take them, and won’t take them and may not be able to take
them and all that. It’s all take away selling.
Up in the first paragraph, this person who inquires happens to be in the
tooth whitening products business. Up in the first paragraph, he did
insert a sentence that is directly relevant qualifications to him,
designed to make him to get to me even more than he did when he
inquired in the first place. In case he wasn’t already aware of that.
In the third paragraph, I kind of lay out the money so there is no point
in bothering me, if you are not ready to at least ante up fifty. We will
skip that, I don’t how far I am jumping again, I am sorry but one of the
things I make a point of doing.
This should be a few pages in, is if somebody does refer to me
reporting back to them about the referral. I get a lot of referrals, so if I
take them, I don’t take them, I offer them anything whether they do
anything. I always want to report back and let them know what is
going on.
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You will also see in the reporting back here, there is language
reinforcing my basic list of facts. I am overbooked and overcommitted
anyway. The reinforcement language is always there. I need to find
really important stuff you need to see. Don’t even hunt for it; let me
show it to you. You got it all; you can find it all when you get home.
Here is a standard confirmation letter for me for a consulting day.
Pretty simple, this will confirm your consulting day with Dan on such
and such a date. This is when they are coming to me in Ohio tells
them the place they have to stay when I am going to pick them up and
what the phone number of the place is, what the directions are.
We don’t recommend a taxi because we are out in the middle of
nowhere. They have to stay there and he checks and they are not
there, there is no way to reach me, no way to reach Vicki and I am not
going out hunting for them. Anything I am supposed to see ahead of
time is to be in the office two weeks prior. If you still owe money bring
a check with you. That is a standard confirmation letter.
You will also have a list of two days of consulting on site. This goes
back to 2003, I don’t do that anymore. You will find this letter in there
too. This will confirm our agreement of two days of consulting, here is
the days I am flying in, here is when we will work, and here is the fee.
It is discounted for back to back days so your net fee is this. Fifty
percent is required to confirm the date, the balance on site. You are
also paying first class airfare. Place a five day hold on these dates
pending receipt of deposit. That is somebody who ultimately I don’t
remember now.
That is somebody who got through a telephone appointment booked
these dates. Now this is sending me money, we hold the dates for five
days, if the check is not here in five days; the dates go back into play.
You will find a speaking engagement confirmation letter. I have picked
one of the more complicated ones, this goes back to 03 too, this will
confirm speaking engagement and then it spells out all sorts of stuff. I
will be speaking, this is lawyers marketing conference, I will be
speaking for less than two hours to no more than three hours, and here
is the fee. Here is how the travel is going to work, you are paying
lodging.
The important paragraph here, which is a standard paragraph for me,
is the one I will include a brief commercial message in my speech. I
must break the audience when I finish, that means you can’t get up
here and do a bingo drawing. I need a draped table, if your audience
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size exceeds a hundred; here is how you will share in the money.
Here is what I need on stage.
This puppy has to be in your pocket for when you go because if you
get there and they start break the news to you that after you finish they
are coming up on stage and doing an obituary for the vice president
and awarding the golf tournament trophies. No they aren’t because
they signed this contract. The contract has to come out of the pocket
and here is what we are going to do.
That particular gig is interesting; I truthfully can’t tell you anymore why
the hell I wanted it. I want through a little gyration to get it. Here is
what notes to us sound like, they originally called the office, and they
must have been referred by somebody. They tell Vicki they want Dan
to come speak at our conference. What she doesn’t do is quote fees,
tell them about date availability, any of that. She tells them you got to
fax in a request explain your deal, what you want, I will give it to Dan.
Dear Mr. Kennedy, your office asked me to write you a quick note
about getting you to speak our lawyers’ marketing boot camp. For
your information, then he tells me about the group. Mike, his partner,
told me yesterday that he probably has read your book The Ultimate
Marketing Plan quite literally a dozen times. When I first joined up with
Mike, it was the first book he had me read. He has four copies of the
book himself. The first copy purchased in 1998 and in it is notes and
highlighting.
He is flattering, selling me as why I should take the speaking gig. He
has already hired me in his head, time we get here. I actually wanted
this thing for some reason and I can’t remember now why I did. I must
have had Vicki do this, before I got on the phone with him. I scheduled
a phone appointment with him and then I got Bill Hammond, who
markets two lawyers and would be known by this guy, to quickly write
and fax over a testimonial letter to the guy about me. Harry Williams,
who is in my coaching group, an attorney, to fax over a testimonial to
me.
By the time I got on the phone with the guy he had been sent a box.
He’d been made to jump through a hoop writing a fax about why it is
he would want to hire me and he gotten to different faxes from to
different lawyer guys telling him what a superstar I was. I can’t
remember now, why I wanted the gig. I can’t imagine why I wanted the
gig. It was in Vegas; maybe I just wanted to go to Vegas. I don’t
remember.
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Here is a consulting confirmation letter; it is a control paragraph it is in
a lot of stuff. The control statement is, the consultant should be
available for telephone consulting regarding this project while the work
is being completed, subsequently as long as the client is testing or
using work royalties or being paid under a reasonable man standard.
Meaning that such time in access must be limited to essential
discussion. Client understands that consultant is rarely available on
short notice and messages or faxes may be answered after several
days and telephone conferences may require advanced scheduling.
Should additional in person meetings be required by client, published
hourly or daily fees will be applied. It is in the agreement, they got a
copy of the agreement, if they later want to fuss about it, I have an
agreement to pull out.
You will also find language in these contracts about indemnity,
meaning their responsibility, your responsibility, what happens if they
get sued, you get sued. Ownership of work language, that’s in there.
This is kind of interesting; there is a clause I added recently because
somebody managed to find another way to surprise me. Which I had
not anticipated, they had never occurred before. They took the work I
did for them to use in their business, and they bundled it up and
packaged it up and sold it to whole bunch of other people. Now we
have a resale rights restriction.
Under no circumstance is this client authorized to create an information
product for sale that is comprised entirely and primarily of the copy
provided by consultant nor is client authorized to otherwise resell said
copy via licensing publication, shared use or any other means or
media. Copy is provided only in exclusively for use my client and my
clients own business.
Every time somebody finds out a new way, my contract gets bigger.
This is a guy, he is a good client, who is screaming and screaming,
trying to get more phone time then is allocated to him by the program
he is in. We were trying to accommodate him but I only have two days
a month that I do phone appointments, he would keep coming back to
Vicki with I can’t do those two days but here’s is eight days. See if Dan
can do this.
This is a letter explaining from me now; I know you were trying to get
additional phone call time from me. The problem is I only set aside a
couple days each month other days are dedicated for other purpose.
Coming back with list of other days or choices does not really work. I
am done for December and simply can’t find any room for exception, I
could have but I was punishing him for aggravating Vicki for continuing
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to come back with stuff. Next day Vicki has to work with is January
18th and February 22nd. His behavior has changed and he is fitting
himself in where he should have fitted himself in the first place.
There is a lot of client preparation stuff you will find in here. There is
follow up letters, there is fee rationale. Here is a little client
management letter, don’t hunt for it because I have now skipped over a
bunch of stuff. This paragraph, written feed back is better than oral so
I can make notes, copy and pass along. I got to keep training them to
give me notes not give me phone calls, not give me phone messages.
I also put in Somers White’s confirmation letter for you. Just to give
you a little different consulting perspective. This is from the last time I
consulted with him. You will find this somewhere. The best thing
about his, the language I like best is this, client’s lie. It has been my
experience that most clients lie to their doctor, lawyer, CPA, and
consultants. They lie not by not telling the truth but rather by omission
leaving out something that maybe really important. He goes through a
whole rap of why you have to tell them everything whether you like it or
not.
Then you have a whole collection of articles of mine over the years.
Just examples because we talk so much about writing. The last two
things you need to know is only because several people asked me to,
so there is no confusion, the influential writing workshop that I have
talked to you about is not the same as the sales letter writing
workshop. In fact it has nothing to do with sales letters what so ever.
It has to do with newsletters, and books, and white papers and special
reports and all the other kinds of materials that would be a part of a
coaching or a consulting business and making them persuasive and
influential and impact and good retention tools and good referral
stimulation tools. It is not about sales letters and one is not a
duplication of the other.
Looks like it is almost a lock we are going to do work for fourteen
registered for that, I will keep you posted. The other thing I need to tell
you is, if you are not information marketing association member, that’s
not frankly very bright. There is an enormous amount of business
information, legal information, the number of you come up now and ask
me legal stuff and contract stuff.
That’s really purview of the association, not me. There is break out
programs for beginners and break out programs for experienced
people. The benefits are enormous. If you are not an IMA member,
you ought to be an IMA member. We do this at events to give you
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guys a break. There is a two month free trial, if you want to be an IMA
member on a two month trial basis, all you got to do is fill out the form
and if you want to get more information when we break. Robert raise
your hand, so everybody knows who you are, executive director of the
association is here.
If you’re really serious about being in the coaching and consulting
business, it’s just not bright not to be in the information marketing
association. I am going to do you, two guys, questions and then we
are going to wrap this thing up. You.
Question: In a mastermind group, I have one plus, one group plus a waiting list.
Should I wait till I have two groups full and continue and then I can still
say I have a waiting list? I really want to have two groups. Do I wait until
I have two full groups and a waiting list or do I start my second group at
some point?
Dan:
So, your second group will be incomplete.
Question: Right.
Dan:
How incomplete?
Question: By a lot now, but I don’t expect it to be a lot in a few months.
Dan:
I’d wait. You don’t want to get there, because look you have reversals,
you have dropouts. You don’t want to hurry it too much so that you
have reputation issues. You don’t want to be visibly undermining your
message. Do the work you can do to build that wait list, so that it is at
least close to if not identical or surpassing the number of seats you
have.
Question: How do you feel about a client performance based consulting
agreement where they need to comply and reach a certain level of
performance that the fee goes on a monthly basis until they do it. It
is a kind of a project basis, but you are not saying it is x dollars up
front. You are on the hook if they do not perform; in essence they
are still on the hook if they don’t perform.
Dan:
I have a couple reactions; one I think it’s cute. Percentage above base
contracts, some real heavy performance contracts, some punishment
contracts. The real problem becomes the enforcement because what
exactly are you going do to. How far are you willing to go to enforce it?
Do you really want, you suing somebody to collect? That is one issue.
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The second issue, anytime you start to deal, a big broad answer for
everybody. Anytime you start to force compliance, you really got to
think about that really long and hard. First of all in a coaching
environment, it is the quickest way to drive everybody off. A lot of
people aren’t going to comply.
A few years ago I made a mistake of doing a copywriting, coaching
program with a small group of people over a period of months. The
deal was everybody was going to do homework assignments every
month and send in stuff and we were going to circulate everybody’s
homework assignment to everybody so everybody saw what
everybody was doing. Problem is, I had one person doing the
homework assignments. They all wanted to look but nobody wanted to
do.
In general I think you have to think long and hard about force
compliance. In a consulting environment, it is a little different. I have a
client right now I would love to penalize for non-compliance. It’s
appealing, it’s cute, and it’s clever. I don’t know what its effect,
ramifications would be.
Let’s say they are in non-compliance for nine months and they have to
keep paying for nine months and they are basically not getting
anything for nine months. That is a reversal of them paying and
getting stuff and not doing anything with the stuff they are getting. At
least you are delivering stuff.
Question: Does it change your outlook, if I tell you the client or the prospect, at
this point, is the one that is said, we want you to come and help us
achieve this level of performance.
Dan:
They all say that. What is the religious incantation, everybody wants to
get to heaven. Hardly anybody wants to obey any four of the ten. I
don’t know. What’s going to happen here?
Seven, eight months and they are three months behind. You are now
not delivering anything, because they are not doing anything with what
you have already delivered. You are not showing up because there is
no reason to show up. They’re still supposedly required to write you a
check. What’s going to happen to this relationship?
What might be interesting, try this for reversal. Is they pay x, whatever
x is. They get little portions of x back based on hitting compliance
bench marks. If they miss the benchmarks they forfeit the money.
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Question: Could that be upfront or even on a monthly basis?
Dan:
Out of both.
Question: The fee could go down.
Dan:
Yeah.
Question:
Dan:
You find that interesting. That’s cute, isn’t it?
Question:
out.
Dan:
As they achieve.
That is worth toying with. This isn’t the one where they seek me
That’s good that means you can make all kinds of demands. Which is
great.
Question: We are talking about numbers that are up in the two million plus. It’s
worth thinking about.
Dan:
The other thing I’d say with a deal of that size, so we are in two million
plus let’s not make it all monthly. Let’s get some money up front. If
they are able to pay you two million they are able to pay you a hunk up
front. Better to get it.
Question: That’s my thought. Yes.
Dan:
Let them pay you some of it monthly, but some of it upfront. Think
about the incentives rebates, instead of the nothing happening months.
I kind of like that better. We sure have done a whole lot of work, hope
you guys feel good. I feel pretty good. Thank you very much. I will
hang around for ten minutes and then I am out of here. If anyone
wants a picture or needs to see me one on one, come on up.
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